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鄭天財Sra Kacaw @ 第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 臺委員陳學 |
| 00:00:13,000 | 00:00:17,000 | 主席有請經濟部 |
| 00:00:17,000 | 00:00:19,000 | 我換台唐好了 |
| 00:00:19,000 | 00:00:21,000 | 台唐副總 |
| 00:00:21,000 | 00:00:23,000 | 有請台唐副總 |
| 00:00:23,000 | 00:00:25,000 | 石耀鼠江鼠長 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 好,今天這個謝謝我們召委安排 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 那經濟部的報告裡面 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:41,000 | 中聯郵值實踐及油品食安管控 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:43,000 | 特別還是提到說這個 |
| 00:00:43,000 | 00:00:49,000 | 台唐向福茂採購黃豆出遊 |
| 00:00:49,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 因為這個本田筆不符切 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:55,000 | 然後你們就計收 |
| 00:00:55,000 | 00:00:57,000 | 所以你們認為 |
| 00:00:57,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 這樣只是計收 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:03,000 | 不需要做任何的通報 |
| 00:01:03,000 | 00:01:05,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:01:05,000 | 00:01:07,000 | 因為原料油 |
| 00:01:07,000 | 00:01:11,000 | 原料油它不是最終的使用油 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 那依據現行的食安法 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 裡頭它並沒有對原料油 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 有做任何的安全標準規範 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 那雖然說它的扁平皮 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 我們這次採購的這個 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 中聯所交的這個本田筆 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 它是有偏高 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 它是不符合台唐公司的採購規範 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 我們的規範是比較嚴謹 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:37,000 | 那它沒有符合我們的規範 |
| 00:01:37,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 有沒有符合這個 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 其他我們衛福部的相關的規範 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 它不再需要通報的項目裡面 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 好,你認為不需要通報 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 這個就如同經濟部的報告裡面 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 是這樣說的 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 這個認為不需要通報 |
| 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 我們看台南市食品安全管理制製條例 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:11,000 | 食品業者發現上游供應之食品 |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 有危害消費者生命身體或健康之餘時 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 因自發現時起 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 48小時內主動通報本府衛生局 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 請問一下那個食藥署 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 除了台南市有這樣的規定之外 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 其他的縣市有沒有這樣的規定 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 我先跟委員報告 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 台南市食品安全管理制製條例裡面 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 特別提到了食品業者發現上游供應之食品 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 有危害消費者生命 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 那我不知道的委員 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 或者是一般民眾知不知道 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 脫胶原型長什麼樣子 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 它其實又酸又臭又混濁 |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 根本就不是實用的 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 它不會再是實用 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 因為它是在黃豆炸出來 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 用我們的化學炸取這裡面的 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 之後呢要準備要去做精煉 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 所以它是一個整個製程裡面 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:09,000 | HACCP重要一個節點 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 一個重要的參考 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 如果看到14.9 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 7PPP |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 我們要如何啟動後面的精煉的過程 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 達到精煉符合最後食品由 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 小於2PPP的努力 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 這是食品科學絕對做得到的事情 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 所以目前對於所謂的脫胶原油 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 在這個階段台湯去取 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 然後去封存去驗出來的 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 目前並不跟我們的食安法第七條第五項裡面的 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 我們食品裡面的油 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 去管理上面的目的是不一樣的 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 沒有對它做要求 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 有這個其實可以練得下去的 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 跟您說明一下 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 請問一下 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 食品安全衛生管理法第三條 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 食品有做定義 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 食品是工人飲食或舉教之產品及其原料 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 它不是原料嗎 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 我跟委員做了一些說明 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 不是原料 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 我想這個整個原料 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 我們要問一件事情 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 大豆沙拉油的原料大豆還是出脫胶原油 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 一定是大豆 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 原料在大豆 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 它不會是在脫胶原油 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 在製成過程中 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:27,000 | 有一個我繼續要努力 |
| 00:04:27,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 讓它達到2PPP的一個油品上面說它是原料 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 這個是不符合在管理上面的邏輯 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 以及我們食安法第七條第五項裡面 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 所謂的脫胶原油不符合這樣通報的義務 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 它其實是完全不可供食品的 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 按照你的說辭的話 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 那不就代表台糖不應該聚收嗎 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 它應該要聚收 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 為什麼他們是 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 我就了解不應該替他們代答 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 他們是因為合約說要2PPP的 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 那如果人家供油給你可以2PPP |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 他就收不要就不要收 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 但是這點是4.7PPP要好好來 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 所以你認為台糖的這個 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 他們的自我的要求太嚴格了是不是 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:17,000 | 是不是你認為他們的要求 |
| 00:05:17,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 自我要求這麼高 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 是不是你們認為太嚴格了 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 這很嚴重啊 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 當初他聚收 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 當然如果你們的契約 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 如果你們跟中聯的契約 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 原來就這樣規定 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 那當然是這樣規定 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 做最嚴格的要求是對的 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 而到現在為止 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 食藥署你們還在堅持你們的意見 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 毫無檢討 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 你也許可以說食品衛生管理法有檢討 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 需要檢討 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 因為現在的規定 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 我們應該參考這個 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 台糖的那個高標準 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 來去訂定去修正 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 然後對於這個所謂的原料 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 我在怎麼看這個食品的定義 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 就是包含他的原料啊 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 我聽你的老半天 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 你剛才的說明 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 也看不出什麼很專業的 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 就是原料你還能做什麼解釋呢 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 跟委員這邊進入報告 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 那對於裡面的脫膠原油 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 裡面的原料 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 我相信是在黃豆 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 大家是毋庸置疑 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 至於在中間製程中 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 要不要去訂這個 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 我覺得在現在的修法也提出來 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 大家可以共同去討論 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 那至於說如果是2.5ppb 3ppb 5ppb |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 到底接下來面對這些油品 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 要做什麼樣子的管制 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 今天之所以會安排這個 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 就是大家來討論 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 但是你剛才的說明 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 就認為台糖標準太高 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 會這樣的一個理解 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 你了解嗎 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 報告委員這個理解 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 如果各位的理解並不是這樣子 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 我想他是脫膠原油 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 其實是各個油品廠 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 都可以把它當作很重要的一個節點 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 未來也能夠去了解 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 該如何去把它練到符合標準的 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 這是我們的期待 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 也是我們科學管理上面支持 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 但是你至於民眾說這原料上面 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 15 14要怎麼去處理 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 這個是未來的確是 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 可以去做討論的部分 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 謝謝委員子 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 所以因為今天是在 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 等於是在檢討 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 安排這個會議就是在檢討 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 所以你不要太堅持你 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 原來的想法 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 或是你原來對這個 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 食品安全衛生管理法的理解 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 你應該主動就想 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 如果當初這個現行的法律 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 是這樣 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 經過這一次的事件 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 確實有檢討的空間 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 你一開始這樣講 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 我覺得謝謝委員的支持 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 委員應該也同意剛才講 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 現行的法律 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 應該目前是沒有這樣子的規範 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 我不認為現行的法律 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 不能處理 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 但是你認為是這樣 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 但是你還是要去強調 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:33,000 | 是要去調整去修正 |
| 00:08:33,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 不夠明確 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 也許你說不夠明確 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 但是我認為很明確 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 所以變成各有各的一個 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 不同的一個意見好不好 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:45,000 | 加油 |
| 00:08:45,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 謝謝委員 |