| IVOD_ID |
170877 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170877 |
| 日期 |
2026-08-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-08-10T10:52:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-08-10T11:09:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/11f3ac9a4aee4d25577b6f8b68de4ef240bd953ec8f8f09099ee4bfa2bac52e00e7e88b7d6e8a5905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蔡易餘 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:52:59 - 11:09:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-08-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣糖業股份有限公司董事長、法務部首長、衛生福利部首長及審計部首長就「台灣糖業股份有限公司經營治理及風險控管之檢討—中聯油脂事件、台糖售地案等重大債權追償暨審計部114年度決算審核意見改善情形」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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897.15659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[237].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[237].start |
897.32534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[237].end |
901.08846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[238].speaker |
SPEAKER_04 |
| transcript.pyannote[238].start |
899.85659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[238].end |
901.59471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[239].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[239].start |
901.29096875 |
| transcript.pyannote[239].end |
908.69909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[240].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[240].start |
908.76659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[240].end |
970.90034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[241].speaker |
SPEAKER_04 |
| transcript.pyannote[241].start |
970.56284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[241].end |
970.83284375 |
| transcript.pyannote[242].speaker |
SPEAKER_04 |
| transcript.pyannote[242].start |
970.90034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[242].end |
971.32221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[243].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[243].start |
971.32221875 |
| transcript.pyannote[243].end |
971.33909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[244].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.pyannote[244].start |
971.40659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[244].end |
974.32596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[245].speaker |
SPEAKER_04 |
| transcript.pyannote[245].start |
973.68471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[245].end |
973.73534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[246].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[246].start |
973.73534375 |
| transcript.pyannote[246].end |
974.10659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[247].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[247].start |
974.32596875 |
| transcript.pyannote[247].end |
975.97971875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
2 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
蔡玉宇委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
6.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
14.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我們待會兒李玉琳委員質詢完畢後休息八分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
17.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
22.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
好 我們是不是有請台港副總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
25.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
27.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
還有衛福部署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
28.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
29.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
蔡總署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
30 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
30.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
38.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
39.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
39.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
42.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那今天排了這樣的一個議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
42.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
46.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
早晚應該是很重視台湯這一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
46.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
50 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
他拒收了這個中原的出遊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
50.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
53.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為他台湯認為這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
53.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
56.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個是出遊的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
56.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
60.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
也還不是所謂的一個產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
60.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
63.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
既然還不是產品 他就把這個出遊退貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
64.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
69.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
要中聯自己要去吸收 因為台湯不收這樣的貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
70 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
73.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那而且這個貨源也都還在中聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
74.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
77.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這一個自由就是也都還在台中 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
77.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
78.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那台湯直接拒收 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
79.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
82.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那我想要請台湯是不是可以再具體說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
82.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
88.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
當時你們如何查到這一批出遊是有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
88.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
91.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那你們怎樣決定拒收的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
92.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
93.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
可不可以做一個完整的說明呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
94.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
97.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是 那跟委員做一個比較完整的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
97.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
99.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們這次因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
100.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
103.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
大豆自己生產的出遊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
103.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
105.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們自己壓到大豆生產的出遊不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
106.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
109.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以我們必須要對外來採購出遊補足 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
110.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
115.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那這次我們的招標案是3000噸的出遊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
116.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
118.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那這個出遊對台湯公司來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
118.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
120.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
他是一個中間的一個原料 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
122.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
123.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
中聯他是分批 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
124 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
126.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
應該是我們的決標的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
126.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
128.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
得標的廠商是福茂 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
129.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
134.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那福茂公司他這次交的這個出遊他是分3批 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
134.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
139.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第一批他交的這個出遊就是我們這次311 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
139.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
141.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
在中聯有潮的出遊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
141.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
148.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那我們5月11號他提報311這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
148.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
151.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這一潮的出遊是要交給台湯公司的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
151.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
157.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以我們的人員到現場去遷封然後送驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
157.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
160.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
就整個有潮是封存起來送驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
160.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
164.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
要等到驗收合格了之後台湯公司才會收 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
164.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
166.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那這次是我們送驗的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
167.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
169.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
他沒有符合台湯的招標規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
169.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
172.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們的招標規範有很多項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
172.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
176.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那包括本篇批的部分他是沒有符合我們的招標規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
176.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
178.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
所以這一批我們是拒收的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
178.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
181.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
是直接就留在中聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
181.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
183.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那到目前為止他還是遷封在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
183.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
187.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
所以你們就是5月11到中聯的現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
187.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
189.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
去台邊抽驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
189.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
192.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那抽驗時間過多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
192.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
195.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我們馬上送驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
195.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
201.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
5月15號報告就出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
201.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
202.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那因為碰到禮拜六禮拜天 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
202.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
204.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
5月18號禮拜一 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
204.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
207.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我們就通知服貿公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
207.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
211.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
說他的這一批是沒有符合台湯公司的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
211.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
213.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我們拒收 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
213.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
217.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那現在看起來台中市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
217.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
222 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
就是認為說你除了拒收外 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
222.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
223.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
你認為他送驗不合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
223.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
225.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
他的本篇批有超標 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
225.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
227.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以你也必須要通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
227.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
230.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那在法令上你們必須要這樣做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
230.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
231.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
公務員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
231.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
235.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
他這個沒有所謂超標不超標的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
235.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
238.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
因為現行的食安法裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
238.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
245.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
並沒有對於出遊有做任何安全的標準規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
245.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
248.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以他就沒有所謂的超標不超標的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
249.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
252.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
他是沒有符合台湯公司所訂的超標規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
252.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
254.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以我們拒收了 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
254.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
256.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以你們就決定拒收 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
256.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
260 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那請食道署可以說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
260 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
262.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那台湯這樣的一個決策過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
262.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
265.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
有違反你們的食品衛生的管理法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
265.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
266.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
先講結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
266.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
267.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
267.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
268.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
為什麼沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
268.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
272 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
就是說大豆其實炸油之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
272 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
274.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
炸出來的油是最初期 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
274.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
278.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
初期的油裡面其實是又酸又臭 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
278.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
280.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
顏色又不好非常混濁 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
280.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
282.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
根本不是在食用這個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
282.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
285.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那如何到最後我們可以到 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
285.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
288.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我們要吃的油其實要經過這個精煉 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
288.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
291.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
精煉過程其實可以下降的88% |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
291.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
293.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
所以這個下降的過程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
293.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
294.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
如果精煉之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
294.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
298.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我們要管制是最後出來的油是符合2PBB |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
298.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
300.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
它其實是我們用我們的科學 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
300.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
303.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
能夠達到盡量低的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
303.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
304.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我們訂的這個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
304.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
307.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所以在過去台湯裡面的相關的油品 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
307.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
310.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
以及後續我們檢驗油品都是合格的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
310.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
312.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所以對於這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
312.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
315.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
初級出來的油的層次 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
315.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
317.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我們是不是要去管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
317.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
321.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我們其實是應該在所謂的HACCP裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
321.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
325.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
重要的節點決定你後續你要怎麼煉 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
325.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
327.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
因為煉一次煉不成 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
327.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
329.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
走一圈不成走兩圈 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
329.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
331.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
也可以達到2PPB的 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
331.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
334.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
只是它的成本就會另外一個層次 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
334.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
336.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
所以對於一個衛生主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
336.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
339.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我們要把讓人民的食品的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
339.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
340.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
油品安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
340.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
342.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
貶貧批的2PPB的 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
342.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
343.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
343.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
345.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我們一定是抓在最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
345.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
347.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
你出來要給民眾消費的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
347.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
349.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
所以你們是抓在最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
349.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
354.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
抓到這個它必須要到2PPB的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
354.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
357.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
就是它可能要投入適當的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
357.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
359.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
讓它精煉的過程把它下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
359.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
361.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
是的這個是可以做到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
361.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
363.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
所以因此它對於我們食品中 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
363.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
367.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
從污染物質跟毒素的衛生標準裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
367.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
370.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
提到的副表3裡面BAP裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
370.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
372.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我們追締的是在可食用的油脂 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
372.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
375.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
好 理論上沒有到第七 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
375.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
377.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
署長那是不是可以這樣說 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
377.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
379.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
如果台糖公司這一批出油 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
379.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
381.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
他一樣把它買進來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
381.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
386.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
但是它經過投入成本精煉再精煉 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
386.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
388.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
還是可以把它下降到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
388.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
390.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
變成產品的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
390.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
392.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
下降到了2PPB |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
392.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
395.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
它就會變成合格的產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
395.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
398.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
是這樣子做法是可以達到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
398.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
401.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
只是說中間台糖如果它進了這批出油 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
401.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
404.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
它的原料的標準是超標 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
404.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
407.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
是比較高不是叫超標 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
407.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
408.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
是相對高 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
408.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
410.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那台糖就要投入成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
410.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
412.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
去讓它下降到產品符合標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
412.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
414.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我想它是一個很重要的參考點 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
414.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
418.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所以對於整個所謂食品科學裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
418.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
420.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
是有可以達到讓它2的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
420.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
422.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個是製程區可以用的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
422.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
424.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這個論述可以了解起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
424.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
428.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
基本上台糖這中間沒有違反食品安全衛生管理法 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
428.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
432.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
因為這個出油它可以選擇要買進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
432.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
434.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
也可以選擇不要買進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
434.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
438.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
但是台糖至於自我的合約的自我的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
438.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
440.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
所以他認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
440.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
444.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個出油的原料就不符合他們期待的 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
444.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
445.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
所以他們就不要買 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
445.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
446.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
不想買就拒收 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
446.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
448.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
就是這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
448.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
450.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
好 台糖可以再說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
450.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
451.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
是不是像我講的這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
451.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
455.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我沒有錯委員所講的是完全正確 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
455.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
457.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
所以對你們台糖來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
457.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
459.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
你們這次購買出油 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
459.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
461.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
然後你們拒收 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
461.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
463.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
然後現在整個台中市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
463.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
465.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
看起來如休彥很努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
465.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
467.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
要甩鍋給台糖 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
467.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
469.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
然後認為說你們拒收 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
469.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
471.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
然後你們違反通報義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
471.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
473.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那這件事台糖你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
473.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
475.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
要這樣點點恐怕假嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
475.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
477.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
你們不採取一些法律動作嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
477.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
481.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這個部分當然我們也會來評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
481.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
483.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那也會跟律師這邊來研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
483.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
485.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那後續在法律上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
485.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
487.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我們是不是要採取任何的行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
487.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
489.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那這個要經過評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
489.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
491.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
你們除了評估之外你們要去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
491.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
495.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這個盧市長已經多次把你們台糖的生育 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
495.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
499.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
已經做了多次的傷害了 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
499.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
501.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
從上一次去裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
501.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
503.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
裡面那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
503.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
505.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
裡面肉裡面那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
505.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
507.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
507.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
509.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
瘦肉精的成分 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
509.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
511.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
然後驗驗驗驗驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
511.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
513.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
就那一塊豬肉其他全部合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
513.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
515.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
台也是把你們攻擊成這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
515.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
517.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那現在又來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
517.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
519.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
看起來就是都不去講中年 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
519.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
521.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
中年有的原料 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
521.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
523.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
鈔標 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
523.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
525.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
然後現在全部都要說你們的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
525.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
527.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我覺得台糖你們應該要採取一些動作吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
527.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
529.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
你們台糖畢竟是有對外營業 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
529.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
531.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
你們還是有自己的商譽 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
531.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
533.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
市長他對我們可能有一些誤解 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
533.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
535.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
535.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
537.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
我們有機會的話也希望說能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
537.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
539.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
你去阿彌陀佛是去祈福而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
539.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
541.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
差不多每天祈福過 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
541.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
543.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
你們適度的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
543.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
545.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
只能用一些法律動作才能捍衛自己的 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
545.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
547.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
自己公司的一個名譽 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
547.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
549.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我真的強力建議台糖必須要這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
549.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
551.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
551.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
553.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那我是不是可以再請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
553.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
555.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
台糖的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
555.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
557.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
台糖的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
557.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
559.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
台糖的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
559.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
561.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
561.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
563.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那我是不是可以再請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
563.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
565.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
565.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
567.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
可以再給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
567.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
569.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
兩分鐘就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
569.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
571.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我稍聲說話語速比較慢 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
571.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
573.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
573.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
575.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
部長我想要跟你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
575.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
577.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
現在我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
577.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
579.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
新的能源現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
579.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
581.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
包括台糖這邊都可以先回 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
583.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
585.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
現在過去我們都在說 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
585.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
587.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
氫能 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
587.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
589.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
問題就是說它甲烷裂解 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
589.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
591.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
自氫後 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
591.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
593.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
甲烷裂解過去的自氫 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
593.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
595.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
它可能是在保存的成本太高 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
595.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
597.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
所以變成說 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
597.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
599.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
氫的這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
599.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
601.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
氫能源在推廣上 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
601.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
603.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
有一個困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
603.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
605.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那現在整個技術的進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
605.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
607.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
而且我們知道現在大家在想 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
607.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
609.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
如何用氫來 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
609.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
611.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
產生能源的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
611.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
613.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
最好的方式就是用甲烷來 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
613.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
615.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
自氫 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
615.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
617.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那就是化學式 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
617.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
619.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
因為化學式它只要台 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
619.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
621.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
加溫升高到200度 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
621.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
623.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
然後它裡面就會跑出氫 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
623.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
625.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以它整個運輸的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
625.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
627.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
都用甲烷來運輸 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
627.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
629.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
甲烷我們也知道那就是酒精 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
629.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
631.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
工業酒精就是甲烷 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
631.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
633.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所以運輸甲烷到適當的地點 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
633.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
635.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
把它升溫 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
635.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
637.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
就可以產生氫 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
637.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
639.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
氫就可以來產生能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
639.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
641.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
這一塊是最好現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
641.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
643.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
在發展新能源的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
643.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
645.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
氫能用甲烷自氫 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
645.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
647.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
是最好的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
647.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
649.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那因為我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
649.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
651.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
過去要保存氫能 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
651.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
653.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
要用極低溫 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
653.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
655.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
要到-253度 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
655.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
657.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
所以它等於產生氫能的過程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
657.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
659.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
又大量的耗能 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
659.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
661.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
但是用甲烷自氫就不用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
661.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
663.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
整個路線 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
663.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
665.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
是液態運輸 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
665.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
667.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
因為就是用甲烷 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
667.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
669.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
然後到了適當的地方再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
669.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
671.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
用化學式的轉換然後產生氫 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
671.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
673.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
然後就可以產生能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
673.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
675.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
是不是這一塊我們經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
675.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
677.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
有要投入適度的研究呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
677.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
679.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
事實上各種的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
679.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
681.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們都有投入相關的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
683.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
685.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
但是就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
685.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
687.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那個時機跟成本的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
687.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
689.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
如果這個成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
689.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
691.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
可以下降下來的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
691.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
693.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那我們當然是樂於 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
693.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
695.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
可以來使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
695.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
697.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
不過現在還是在屬於 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
697.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
699.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
研究跟示範階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
699.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
701.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
對 當然是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
701.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
703.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
但是企業事實上跑在前面喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
703.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
705.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
部長我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
705.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
707.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
你應該也知道很多企業事實上對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
707.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
709.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
新能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
709.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
711.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
然後他們現在認為甲烷自氫 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
711.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
713.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
已經是一個未來很可行的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
713.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
715.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
715.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
717.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
日本在這一塊跑得很快 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
717.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
719.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那我們台灣事實上也可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
719.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
721.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
做這樣的一個努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
721.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
723.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
但是企業在努力這一塊的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
723.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
725.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
他們會發現有一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
725.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
727.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
就是我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
727.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
729.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
甲烷自氫的過程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
729.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
731.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
因為甲烷的產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
731.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
733.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
事實上也可以同時去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
733.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
735.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
很多農業廢棄物 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
735.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
737.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
包括玉米啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
737.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
739.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
或者是一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
739.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
741.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
一些積分啦 怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
741.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
743.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
這樣的一個農業廢棄物 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
743.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
745.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
他們事實上就會產生甲烷 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
745.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
747.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那如果你透過這個農廢 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
747.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
749.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
然後產生甲烷之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
749.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
751.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
然後你再把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
751.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
753.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
來用剛剛的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
753.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
755.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
然後來自氫的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
755.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
757.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
這樣子的一個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
757.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
759.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
它應該就要符合R1100 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
759.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
761.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
R1100能源的一個需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
761.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
763.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那這個在國外 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
763.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
765.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
事實上是同意的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
765.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
767.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
用農廢然後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
767.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
769.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
製造甲烷然後甲烷再轉換成氫 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
769.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
771.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
這樣子的一個化學式變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
771.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
773.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
基本上是符合R1100的 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
773.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
775.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
是 報告委員現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
775.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
777.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
如果用農廢 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
777.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
779.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
來可以轉換成發電的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
779.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
781.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
現在我們已經折成 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
781.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
783.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
台灣公司大概有幾個示範案 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
783.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
785.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
現在要開始運行 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
785.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
787.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
希望明年可以開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
787.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
789.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
明年可以開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
789.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
791.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
但是卡在現在我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
791.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
793.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
再生能源發展條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
793.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
795.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我們再生能源是現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
795.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
797.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
生殖能的定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
797.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
799.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
是指 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
799.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
801.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
如果是生殖的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
801.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
803.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
尤其是農廢的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
803.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
805.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個部分是可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
805.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
807.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
是符合我們再生能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
807.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
809.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
現在業界還是認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
809.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
811.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
因為它不是直接產生能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
811.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
813.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
它是產生甲烷 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
813.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
815.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
甲烷才產生能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
815.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
817.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
如果是農廢 找氣發電 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
817.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
819.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那就是有綠能的一個標章 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
819.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
821.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這一塊因為中間多了一個製程 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
821.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
823.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
它是從農廢變甲烷 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
823.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
825.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
甲烷再變氫 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
825.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
827.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以甲烷變氫這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
827.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
829.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
沒有綠能標章 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
829.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
831.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
那這個好可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
831.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
833.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
包括說英國現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
833.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
835.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
他們像AZ藥廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
835.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
837.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
他們就有生物甲烷工廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
837.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
839.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
他們認為這個產生的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
839.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
841.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
農廢去轉換的 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
841.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
843.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
但是我們卻在這一塊轉換過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
843.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
845.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
少了這一段 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
845.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
847.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這件事很可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
847.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
849.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
因為我們要鼓勵企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
849.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
851.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
去跑在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
851.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
853.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
一些政策的前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
853.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
855.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那也要給他們充足的誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
855.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
857.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那企業當然會認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
857.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
859.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我去從事 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
859.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
861.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
用農廢轉換甲烷 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
861.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
863.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
轉換成酒精 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
863.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
865.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
轉換成氫能 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
865.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
867.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這個是很好的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
867.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
869.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那請你研究看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
869.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
871.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
怎麼樣來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
871.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
873.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
好 阿國你我現在最後30秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
873.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
875.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
就是我的主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
875.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
877.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我剛才說的就是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
877.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
879.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
事實上我們經濟委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
879.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
881.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
也有去考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
881.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
883.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我們現在在新港的農場 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
883.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
885.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
台糖在新港的農場 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
885.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
887.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那這個農場 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
887.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
889.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
它是鄰近於我們嘉義科學園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
889.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
891.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
距離嘉義科學園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
891.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
893.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
大概只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
893.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
895.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
895.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
897.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
七分鐘的車程 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
897.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
899.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這個新港農場跟嘉義家科 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
899.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
901.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
離嘉科很近 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
901.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
903.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那我們覺得這一個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
903.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
905.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
它很適合來做新能源的產業園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
905.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
907.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
因為我們現在國家的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
907.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
909.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
產業園區的佈局上 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
909.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
911.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
現在少了對於能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
911.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
913.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
以能源為主體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
913.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
915.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
整個的一個產業園區的開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
915.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
917.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
的一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
917.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
919.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那我們從過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
919.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
921.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我們剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
921.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
923.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
不管是氫能啦或者是一些綠能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
923.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
925.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
一些研究它還是需要一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
925.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
927.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
有一些產業的群聚化 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
927.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
929.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那如果我們可以在這裡把它變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
929.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
931.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
新能源的產業園區的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
931.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
933.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
是可以鼓勵更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
933.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
935.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
願意去研發新能源的 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
935.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
937.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這樣的一個企業的一個進駐 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
937.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
939.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
然後他們如果在這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
939.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
941.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
可以符合R100的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
941.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
943.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
他們就最近的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
943.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
945.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
就是因為台積電在嘉義科學園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
945.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
947.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那如果距離七分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
947.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
949.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
支援的新港的農場 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
949.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
951.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
變成一個新能源產業園區的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
951.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
953.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
也方便這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
953.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
955.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
新能源的企業可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
955.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
957.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
跟先進的科技產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
957.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
959.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
他們所需要R100的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
959.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
961.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
可以對接所以這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
961.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
963.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我們現在部長可以趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
963.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
965.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
啟動然後來研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
965.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
967.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
這個新港農產是否 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
967.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
969.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
可以讓它轉型成一個新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
969.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
971.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
產業園區可以可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
971.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
973.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
好那部長這件事要拜託你 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
973.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
975.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
謝謝好謝謝委員 |