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蔡易餘 @ 第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 蔡玉宇委員質詢 |
| 00:00:06,260 | 00:00:14,120 | 我們待會兒李玉琳委員質詢完畢後休息八分鐘 |
| 00:00:17,920 | 00:00:22,960 | 好 我們是不是有請台港副總經理 |
| 00:00:25,200 | 00:00:27,520 | 還有衛福部署長 |
| 00:00:28,320 | 00:00:29,520 | 蔡總署長 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:30,500 | 好 |
| 00:00:38,800 | 00:00:39,300 | 好 |
| 00:00:39,760 | 00:00:42,240 | 那今天排了這樣的一個議程 |
| 00:00:42,800 | 00:00:46,080 | 早晚應該是很重視台湯這一次 |
| 00:00:46,480 | 00:00:50,000 | 他拒收了這個中原的出遊 |
| 00:00:50,480 | 00:00:53,200 | 因為他台湯認為這個是 |
| 00:00:53,680 | 00:00:56,320 | 這個是出遊的階段 |
| 00:00:56,880 | 00:01:00,480 | 也還不是所謂的一個產品 |
| 00:01:00,880 | 00:01:03,920 | 既然還不是產品 他就把這個出遊退貨 |
| 00:01:04,319 | 00:01:09,600 | 要中聯自己要去吸收 因為台湯不收這樣的貨 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:13,840 | 那而且這個貨源也都還在中聯 |
| 00:01:14,240 | 00:01:17,039 | 這一個自由就是也都還在台中 |
| 00:01:17,360 | 00:01:18,880 | 那台湯直接拒收 |
| 00:01:19,120 | 00:01:22,720 | 那我想要請台湯是不是可以再具體說明 |
| 00:01:22,800 | 00:01:28,640 | 當時你們如何查到這一批出遊是有問題 |
| 00:01:28,960 | 00:01:31,920 | 那你們怎樣決定拒收的過程 |
| 00:01:32,160 | 00:01:33,920 | 可不可以做一個完整的說明呢 |
| 00:01:34,640 | 00:01:37,440 | 是 那跟委員做一個比較完整的報告 |
| 00:01:37,920 | 00:01:39,680 | 我們這次因為我們 |
| 00:01:40,320 | 00:01:43,360 | 大豆自己生產的出遊 |
| 00:01:43,360 | 00:01:45,840 | 我們自己壓到大豆生產的出遊不足 |
| 00:01:46,160 | 00:01:49,920 | 所以我們必須要對外來採購出遊補足 |
| 00:01:50,400 | 00:01:55,600 | 那這次我們的招標案是3000噸的出遊 |
| 00:01:56,160 | 00:01:58,400 | 那這個出遊對台湯公司來講 |
| 00:01:58,400 | 00:02:00,800 | 他是一個中間的一個原料 |
| 00:02:02,080 | 00:02:03,680 | 中聯他是分批 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:06,400 | 應該是我們的決標的對象 |
| 00:02:06,400 | 00:02:08,560 | 得標的廠商是福茂 |
| 00:02:09,039 | 00:02:14,400 | 那福茂公司他這次交的這個出遊他是分3批 |
| 00:02:14,400 | 00:02:19,520 | 第一批他交的這個出遊就是我們這次311 |
| 00:02:19,760 | 00:02:21,760 | 在中聯有潮的出遊 |
| 00:02:21,760 | 00:02:28,160 | 那我們5月11號他提報311這個 |
| 00:02:28,160 | 00:02:31,840 | 這一潮的出遊是要交給台湯公司的 |
| 00:02:31,840 | 00:02:37,280 | 所以我們的人員到現場去遷封然後送驗 |
| 00:02:37,280 | 00:02:40,720 | 就整個有潮是封存起來送驗 |
| 00:02:40,720 | 00:02:44,640 | 要等到驗收合格了之後台湯公司才會收 |
| 00:02:44,640 | 00:02:46,960 | 那這次是我們送驗的時候 |
| 00:02:47,040 | 00:02:49,840 | 他沒有符合台湯的招標規範 |
| 00:02:49,840 | 00:02:52,720 | 我們的招標規範有很多項目 |
| 00:02:52,720 | 00:02:56,720 | 那包括本篇批的部分他是沒有符合我們的招標規範 |
| 00:02:56,720 | 00:02:58,720 | 所以這一批我們是拒收的 |
| 00:02:58,720 | 00:03:01,200 | 是直接就留在中聯 |
| 00:03:01,200 | 00:03:03,680 | 那到目前為止他還是遷封在現場 |
| 00:03:03,680 | 00:03:07,680 | 所以你們就是5月11到中聯的現場 |
| 00:03:07,680 | 00:03:09,680 | 去台邊抽驗 |
| 00:03:09,680 | 00:03:12,400 | 那抽驗時間過多久 |
| 00:03:12,400 | 00:03:15,120 | 我們馬上送驗 |
| 00:03:15,200 | 00:03:21,200 | 5月15號報告就出來 |
| 00:03:21,200 | 00:03:22,800 | 那因為碰到禮拜六禮拜天 |
| 00:03:22,800 | 00:03:24,320 | 5月18號禮拜一 |
| 00:03:24,320 | 00:03:27,760 | 我們就通知服貿公司 |
| 00:03:27,760 | 00:03:31,520 | 說他的這一批是沒有符合台湯公司的規範 |
| 00:03:31,520 | 00:03:33,040 | 我們拒收 |
| 00:03:33,040 | 00:03:37,920 | 那現在看起來台中市政府 |
| 00:03:37,920 | 00:03:42,000 | 就是認為說你除了拒收外 |
| 00:03:42,080 | 00:03:43,760 | 你認為他送驗不合格 |
| 00:03:43,760 | 00:03:45,760 | 他的本篇批有超標 |
| 00:03:45,760 | 00:03:47,360 | 所以你也必須要通報 |
| 00:03:47,360 | 00:03:50,240 | 那在法令上你們必須要這樣做嗎 |
| 00:03:50,240 | 00:03:51,680 | 公務員報告 |
| 00:03:51,680 | 00:03:55,280 | 他這個沒有所謂超標不超標的問題 |
| 00:03:55,280 | 00:03:58,240 | 因為現行的食安法裡頭 |
| 00:03:58,240 | 00:04:05,040 | 並沒有對於出遊有做任何安全的標準規範 |
| 00:04:05,040 | 00:04:08,880 | 所以他就沒有所謂的超標不超標的問題 |
| 00:04:09,040 | 00:04:12,960 | 他是沒有符合台湯公司所訂的超標規範 |
| 00:04:12,960 | 00:04:14,960 | 所以我們拒收了 |
| 00:04:14,960 | 00:04:16,959 | 所以你們就決定拒收 |
| 00:04:16,959 | 00:04:20,000 | 那請食道署可以說明 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,400 | 那台湯這樣的一個決策過程 |
| 00:04:22,400 | 00:04:25,120 | 有違反你們的食品衛生的管理法嗎 |
| 00:04:25,120 | 00:04:26,560 | 先講結論 |
| 00:04:26,560 | 00:04:27,680 | 並沒有 |
| 00:04:27,680 | 00:04:28,960 | 為什麼沒有 |
| 00:04:28,960 | 00:04:32,000 | 就是說大豆其實炸油之後 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:34,480 | 炸出來的油是最初期 |
| 00:04:34,480 | 00:04:38,080 | 初期的油裡面其實是又酸又臭 |
| 00:04:38,080 | 00:04:40,080 | 顏色又不好非常混濁 |
| 00:04:40,080 | 00:04:42,479 | 根本不是在食用這個階段 |
| 00:04:42,479 | 00:04:45,120 | 那如何到最後我們可以到 |
| 00:04:45,120 | 00:04:48,080 | 我們要吃的油其實要經過這個精煉 |
| 00:04:48,080 | 00:04:51,680 | 精煉過程其實可以下降的88% |
| 00:04:51,680 | 00:04:53,280 | 所以這個下降的過程中 |
| 00:04:53,280 | 00:04:54,880 | 如果精煉之後 |
| 00:04:54,880 | 00:04:58,640 | 我們要管制是最後出來的油是符合2PBB |
| 00:04:58,640 | 00:05:00,880 | 它其實是我們用我們的科學 |
| 00:05:00,880 | 00:05:03,200 | 能夠達到盡量低的程度 |
| 00:05:03,200 | 00:05:04,640 | 我們訂的這個標準 |
| 00:05:04,640 | 00:05:07,760 | 所以在過去台湯裡面的相關的油品 |
| 00:05:07,760 | 00:05:10,640 | 以及後續我們檢驗油品都是合格的 |
| 00:05:10,640 | 00:05:12,719 | 所以對於這樣子的一個 |
| 00:05:12,719 | 00:05:15,440 | 初級出來的油的層次 |
| 00:05:15,440 | 00:05:17,120 | 我們是不是要去管理 |
| 00:05:17,120 | 00:05:21,280 | 我們其實是應該在所謂的HACCP裡面 |
| 00:05:21,280 | 00:05:25,360 | 重要的節點決定你後續你要怎麼煉 |
| 00:05:25,360 | 00:05:27,360 | 因為煉一次煉不成 |
| 00:05:27,360 | 00:05:29,680 | 走一圈不成走兩圈 |
| 00:05:29,680 | 00:05:31,920 | 也可以達到2PPB的 |
| 00:05:31,920 | 00:05:34,400 | 只是它的成本就會另外一個層次 |
| 00:05:34,400 | 00:05:36,880 | 所以對於一個衛生主管機關 |
| 00:05:36,960 | 00:05:39,600 | 我們要把讓人民的食品的安全 |
| 00:05:39,600 | 00:05:40,880 | 油品安全的 |
| 00:05:40,880 | 00:05:42,480 | 貶貧批的2PPB的 |
| 00:05:42,480 | 00:05:43,600 | 這個目標 |
| 00:05:43,600 | 00:05:45,040 | 我們一定是抓在最後 |
| 00:05:45,040 | 00:05:47,840 | 你出來要給民眾消費的時候 |
| 00:05:47,840 | 00:05:49,280 | 所以你們是抓在最後 |
| 00:05:49,280 | 00:05:54,240 | 抓到這個它必須要到2PPB的話 |
| 00:05:54,240 | 00:05:57,200 | 就是它可能要投入適當的成本 |
| 00:05:57,200 | 00:05:59,360 | 讓它精煉的過程把它下降 |
| 00:05:59,360 | 00:06:01,440 | 是的這個是可以做到的 |
| 00:06:01,440 | 00:06:03,840 | 所以因此它對於我們食品中 |
| 00:06:03,919 | 00:06:07,919 | 從污染物質跟毒素的衛生標準裡面 |
| 00:06:07,919 | 00:06:10,159 | 提到的副表3裡面BAP裡面 |
| 00:06:10,159 | 00:06:12,880 | 我們追締的是在可食用的油脂 |
| 00:06:12,880 | 00:06:15,440 | 好 理論上沒有到第七 |
| 00:06:15,440 | 00:06:17,280 | 署長那是不是可以這樣說 |
| 00:06:17,280 | 00:06:19,599 | 如果台糖公司這一批出油 |
| 00:06:19,599 | 00:06:21,599 | 他一樣把它買進來了 |
| 00:06:21,599 | 00:06:26,400 | 但是它經過投入成本精煉再精煉 |
| 00:06:26,400 | 00:06:28,640 | 還是可以把它下降到最後 |
| 00:06:28,640 | 00:06:30,640 | 變成產品的時候 |
| 00:06:30,640 | 00:06:32,640 | 下降到了2PPB |
| 00:06:32,719 | 00:06:35,440 | 它就會變成合格的產品 |
| 00:06:35,440 | 00:06:38,240 | 是這樣子做法是可以達到的 |
| 00:06:38,240 | 00:06:41,200 | 只是說中間台糖如果它進了這批出油 |
| 00:06:41,200 | 00:06:44,960 | 它的原料的標準是超標 |
| 00:06:44,960 | 00:06:47,120 | 是比較高不是叫超標 |
| 00:06:47,120 | 00:06:48,400 | 是相對高 |
| 00:06:48,400 | 00:06:50,080 | 那台糖就要投入成本 |
| 00:06:50,080 | 00:06:52,880 | 去讓它下降到產品符合標準 |
| 00:06:52,880 | 00:06:54,880 | 我想它是一個很重要的參考點 |
| 00:06:54,880 | 00:06:58,240 | 所以對於整個所謂食品科學裡面 |
| 00:06:58,240 | 00:07:00,240 | 是有可以達到讓它2的 |
| 00:07:00,240 | 00:07:02,240 | 這個是製程區可以用的地方 |
| 00:07:02,240 | 00:07:04,240 | 這個論述可以了解起來 |
| 00:07:04,240 | 00:07:08,240 | 基本上台糖這中間沒有違反食品安全衛生管理法 |
| 00:07:08,240 | 00:07:12,240 | 因為這個出油它可以選擇要買進來 |
| 00:07:12,240 | 00:07:14,240 | 也可以選擇不要買進來 |
| 00:07:14,240 | 00:07:18,240 | 但是台糖至於自我的合約的自我的規範 |
| 00:07:18,240 | 00:07:20,240 | 所以他認為說 |
| 00:07:20,240 | 00:07:24,240 | 這個出油的原料就不符合他們期待的 |
| 00:07:24,240 | 00:07:25,240 | 所以他們就不要買 |
| 00:07:25,240 | 00:07:26,240 | 不想買就拒收 |
| 00:07:26,240 | 00:07:28,240 | 就是這個狀況 |
| 00:07:28,240 | 00:07:30,240 | 好 台糖可以再說明 |
| 00:07:30,240 | 00:07:31,760 | 是不是像我講的這樣 |
| 00:07:31,760 | 00:07:35,760 | 我沒有錯委員所講的是完全正確 |
| 00:07:35,760 | 00:07:37,760 | 所以對你們台糖來說 |
| 00:07:37,760 | 00:07:39,760 | 你們這次購買出油 |
| 00:07:39,760 | 00:07:41,760 | 然後你們拒收 |
| 00:07:41,760 | 00:07:43,760 | 然後現在整個台中市政府 |
| 00:07:43,760 | 00:07:45,760 | 看起來如休彥很努力的 |
| 00:07:45,760 | 00:07:47,760 | 要甩鍋給台糖 |
| 00:07:47,760 | 00:07:49,760 | 然後認為說你們拒收 |
| 00:07:49,760 | 00:07:51,760 | 然後你們違反通報義務 |
| 00:07:51,760 | 00:07:53,760 | 那這件事台糖你們 |
| 00:07:53,760 | 00:07:55,760 | 要這樣點點恐怕假嗎 |
| 00:07:55,760 | 00:07:57,760 | 你們不採取一些法律動作嗎 |
| 00:07:57,760 | 00:08:01,760 | 這個部分當然我們也會來評估 |
| 00:08:01,760 | 00:08:03,760 | 那也會跟律師這邊來研究 |
| 00:08:03,760 | 00:08:05,760 | 那後續在法律上面 |
| 00:08:05,760 | 00:08:07,760 | 我們是不是要採取任何的行動 |
| 00:08:07,760 | 00:08:09,760 | 那這個要經過評估 |
| 00:08:09,760 | 00:08:11,760 | 你們除了評估之外你們要去思考 |
| 00:08:11,760 | 00:08:15,760 | 這個盧市長已經多次把你們台糖的生育 |
| 00:08:15,760 | 00:08:19,760 | 已經做了多次的傷害了 |
| 00:08:19,760 | 00:08:21,760 | 從上一次去裡面 |
| 00:08:21,760 | 00:08:23,760 | 裡面那裡 |
| 00:08:23,760 | 00:08:25,760 | 裡面肉裡面那裡 |
| 00:08:25,760 | 00:08:27,760 | 有什麼 |
| 00:08:27,760 | 00:08:29,760 | 瘦肉精的成分 |
| 00:08:29,760 | 00:08:31,760 | 然後驗驗驗驗驗 |
| 00:08:31,760 | 00:08:33,760 | 就那一塊豬肉其他全部合格 |
| 00:08:33,760 | 00:08:35,760 | 台也是把你們攻擊成這樣 |
| 00:08:35,760 | 00:08:37,760 | 那現在又來了 |
| 00:08:37,760 | 00:08:39,760 | 看起來就是都不去講中年 |
| 00:08:39,760 | 00:08:41,760 | 中年有的原料 |
| 00:08:41,760 | 00:08:43,760 | 鈔標 |
| 00:08:43,760 | 00:08:45,760 | 然後現在全部都要說你們的問題 |
| 00:08:45,760 | 00:08:47,760 | 我覺得台糖你們應該要採取一些動作吧 |
| 00:08:47,760 | 00:08:49,760 | 你們台糖畢竟是有對外營業 |
| 00:08:49,760 | 00:08:51,760 | 你們還是有自己的商譽 |
| 00:08:51,760 | 00:08:53,760 | 市長他對我們可能有一些誤解 |
| 00:08:53,760 | 00:08:55,760 | 那我想 |
| 00:08:55,760 | 00:08:57,760 | 我們有機會的話也希望說能夠 |
| 00:08:57,760 | 00:08:59,760 | 你去阿彌陀佛是去祈福而已 |
| 00:08:59,760 | 00:09:01,760 | 差不多每天祈福過 |
| 00:09:01,760 | 00:09:03,760 | 你們適度的時候 |
| 00:09:03,760 | 00:09:05,760 | 只能用一些法律動作才能捍衛自己的 |
| 00:09:05,760 | 00:09:07,760 | 自己公司的一個名譽 |
| 00:09:07,760 | 00:09:09,760 | 我真的強力建議台糖必須要這樣做 |
| 00:09:09,760 | 00:09:11,760 | 好不好 |
| 00:09:11,760 | 00:09:13,760 | 那我是不是可以再請教 |
| 00:09:13,760 | 00:09:15,760 | 台糖的經驗 |
| 00:09:15,760 | 00:09:17,760 | 台糖的經驗 |
| 00:09:17,760 | 00:09:19,760 | 台糖的經驗 |
| 00:09:19,760 | 00:09:21,760 | 好不好 |
| 00:09:21,760 | 00:09:23,760 | 那我是不是可以再請部長 |
| 00:09:23,760 | 00:09:25,760 | 不好意思 |
| 00:09:25,760 | 00:09:27,760 | 可以再給我 |
| 00:09:27,760 | 00:09:29,760 | 兩分鐘就好 |
| 00:09:29,760 | 00:09:31,760 | 我稍聲說話語速比較慢 |
| 00:09:31,760 | 00:09:33,760 | 部長 |
| 00:09:33,760 | 00:09:35,760 | 部長我想要跟你說 |
| 00:09:35,760 | 00:09:37,760 | 現在我們知道 |
| 00:09:37,760 | 00:09:39,760 | 新的能源現在 |
| 00:09:39,760 | 00:09:41,760 | 包括台糖這邊都可以先回 |
| 00:09:43,760 | 00:09:45,760 | 現在過去我們都在說 |
| 00:09:45,760 | 00:09:47,760 | 氫能 |
| 00:09:47,760 | 00:09:49,760 | 問題就是說它甲烷裂解 |
| 00:09:49,760 | 00:09:51,760 | 自氫後 |
| 00:09:51,760 | 00:09:53,760 | 甲烷裂解過去的自氫 |
| 00:09:53,760 | 00:09:55,760 | 它可能是在保存的成本太高 |
| 00:09:55,760 | 00:09:57,760 | 所以變成說 |
| 00:09:57,760 | 00:09:59,760 | 氫的這樣的一個 |
| 00:09:59,760 | 00:10:01,760 | 氫能源在推廣上 |
| 00:10:01,760 | 00:10:03,760 | 有一個困難 |
| 00:10:03,760 | 00:10:05,760 | 那現在整個技術的進步 |
| 00:10:05,760 | 00:10:07,760 | 而且我們知道現在大家在想 |
| 00:10:07,760 | 00:10:09,760 | 如何用氫來 |
| 00:10:09,760 | 00:10:11,760 | 產生能源的話 |
| 00:10:11,760 | 00:10:13,760 | 最好的方式就是用甲烷來 |
| 00:10:13,760 | 00:10:15,760 | 自氫 |
| 00:10:15,760 | 00:10:17,760 | 那就是化學式 |
| 00:10:17,760 | 00:10:19,760 | 因為化學式它只要台 |
| 00:10:19,760 | 00:10:21,760 | 加溫升高到200度 |
| 00:10:21,760 | 00:10:23,760 | 然後它裡面就會跑出氫 |
| 00:10:23,760 | 00:10:25,760 | 所以它整個運輸的過程 |
| 00:10:25,760 | 00:10:27,760 | 都用甲烷來運輸 |
| 00:10:27,760 | 00:10:29,760 | 甲烷我們也知道那就是酒精 |
| 00:10:29,760 | 00:10:31,760 | 工業酒精就是甲烷 |
| 00:10:31,760 | 00:10:33,760 | 所以運輸甲烷到適當的地點 |
| 00:10:33,760 | 00:10:35,760 | 把它升溫 |
| 00:10:35,760 | 00:10:37,760 | 就可以產生氫 |
| 00:10:37,760 | 00:10:39,760 | 氫就可以來產生能源 |
| 00:10:39,760 | 00:10:41,760 | 這一塊是最好現在 |
| 00:10:41,760 | 00:10:43,760 | 在發展新能源的時候 |
| 00:10:43,760 | 00:10:45,760 | 氫能用甲烷自氫 |
| 00:10:45,760 | 00:10:47,760 | 是最好的一個方式 |
| 00:10:47,760 | 00:10:49,760 | 那因為我們知道 |
| 00:10:49,760 | 00:10:51,760 | 過去要保存氫能 |
| 00:10:51,760 | 00:10:53,760 | 要用極低溫 |
| 00:10:53,760 | 00:10:55,760 | 要到-253度 |
| 00:10:55,760 | 00:10:57,760 | 所以它等於產生氫能的過程中 |
| 00:10:57,760 | 00:10:59,760 | 又大量的耗能 |
| 00:10:59,760 | 00:11:01,760 | 但是用甲烷自氫就不用了 |
| 00:11:01,760 | 00:11:03,760 | 整個路線 |
| 00:11:03,760 | 00:11:05,760 | 是液態運輸 |
| 00:11:05,760 | 00:11:07,760 | 因為就是用甲烷 |
| 00:11:07,760 | 00:11:09,760 | 然後到了適當的地方再來 |
| 00:11:09,760 | 00:11:11,760 | 用化學式的轉換然後產生氫 |
| 00:11:11,760 | 00:11:13,760 | 然後就可以產生能源 |
| 00:11:13,760 | 00:11:15,760 | 是不是這一塊我們經濟部 |
| 00:11:15,760 | 00:11:17,760 | 有要投入適度的研究呢 |
| 00:11:17,760 | 00:11:19,760 | 事實上各種的方式 |
| 00:11:19,760 | 00:11:21,760 | 我們都有投入相關的研究 |
| 00:11:23,760 | 00:11:25,760 | 但是就是說 |
| 00:11:25,760 | 00:11:27,760 | 那個時機跟成本的問題 |
| 00:11:27,760 | 00:11:29,760 | 如果這個成本 |
| 00:11:29,760 | 00:11:31,760 | 可以下降下來的話 |
| 00:11:31,760 | 00:11:33,760 | 那我們當然是樂於 |
| 00:11:33,760 | 00:11:35,760 | 可以來使用 |
| 00:11:35,760 | 00:11:37,760 | 不過現在還是在屬於 |
| 00:11:37,760 | 00:11:39,760 | 研究跟示範階段 |
| 00:11:39,760 | 00:11:41,760 | 對 當然是說 |
| 00:11:41,760 | 00:11:43,760 | 但是企業事實上跑在前面喔 |
| 00:11:43,760 | 00:11:45,760 | 部長我知道 |
| 00:11:45,760 | 00:11:47,760 | 你應該也知道很多企業事實上對於 |
| 00:11:47,760 | 00:11:49,760 | 新能源 |
| 00:11:49,760 | 00:11:51,760 | 然後他們現在認為甲烷自氫 |
| 00:11:51,760 | 00:11:53,760 | 已經是一個未來很可行的方向 |
| 00:11:53,760 | 00:11:55,760 | 那看起來 |
| 00:11:55,760 | 00:11:57,760 | 日本在這一塊跑得很快 |
| 00:11:57,760 | 00:11:59,760 | 那我們台灣事實上也可以來 |
| 00:11:59,760 | 00:12:01,760 | 做這樣的一個努力 |
| 00:12:01,760 | 00:12:03,760 | 但是企業在努力這一塊的時候 |
| 00:12:03,760 | 00:12:05,760 | 他們會發現有一個問題 |
| 00:12:05,760 | 00:12:07,760 | 就是我們現在 |
| 00:12:07,760 | 00:12:09,760 | 甲烷自氫的過程中 |
| 00:12:09,760 | 00:12:11,760 | 因為甲烷的產生 |
| 00:12:11,760 | 00:12:13,760 | 事實上也可以同時去處理 |
| 00:12:13,760 | 00:12:15,760 | 很多農業廢棄物 |
| 00:12:15,760 | 00:12:17,760 | 包括玉米啦 |
| 00:12:17,760 | 00:12:19,760 | 或者是一些 |
| 00:12:19,760 | 00:12:21,760 | 一些積分啦 怎樣 |
| 00:12:21,760 | 00:12:23,760 | 這樣的一個農業廢棄物 |
| 00:12:23,760 | 00:12:25,760 | 他們事實上就會產生甲烷 |
| 00:12:25,760 | 00:12:27,760 | 那如果你透過這個農廢 |
| 00:12:27,760 | 00:12:29,760 | 然後產生甲烷之後 |
| 00:12:29,760 | 00:12:31,760 | 然後你再把它 |
| 00:12:31,760 | 00:12:33,760 | 來用剛剛的技術 |
| 00:12:33,760 | 00:12:35,760 | 然後來自氫的話 |
| 00:12:35,760 | 00:12:37,760 | 這樣子的一個概念 |
| 00:12:37,760 | 00:12:39,760 | 它應該就要符合R1100 |
| 00:12:39,760 | 00:12:41,760 | R1100能源的一個需求 |
| 00:12:41,760 | 00:12:43,760 | 那這個在國外 |
| 00:12:43,760 | 00:12:45,760 | 事實上是同意的喔 |
| 00:12:45,760 | 00:12:47,760 | 用農廢然後來 |
| 00:12:47,760 | 00:12:49,760 | 製造甲烷然後甲烷再轉換成氫 |
| 00:12:49,760 | 00:12:51,760 | 這樣子的一個化學式變化 |
| 00:12:51,760 | 00:12:53,760 | 基本上是符合R1100的 |
| 00:12:53,760 | 00:12:55,760 | 是 報告委員現在 |
| 00:12:55,760 | 00:12:57,760 | 如果用農廢 |
| 00:12:57,760 | 00:12:59,760 | 來可以轉換成發電的部分 |
| 00:12:59,760 | 00:13:01,760 | 現在我們已經折成 |
| 00:13:01,760 | 00:13:03,760 | 台灣公司大概有幾個示範案 |
| 00:13:03,760 | 00:13:05,760 | 現在要開始運行 |
| 00:13:05,760 | 00:13:07,760 | 希望明年可以開始 |
| 00:13:07,760 | 00:13:09,760 | 明年可以開始 |
| 00:13:09,760 | 00:13:11,760 | 但是卡在現在我們的 |
| 00:13:11,760 | 00:13:13,760 | 再生能源發展條例 |
| 00:13:13,760 | 00:13:15,760 | 我們再生能源是現在 |
| 00:13:15,760 | 00:13:17,760 | 生殖能的定義 |
| 00:13:17,760 | 00:13:19,760 | 是指 |
| 00:13:19,760 | 00:13:21,760 | 如果是生殖的部分 |
| 00:13:21,760 | 00:13:23,760 | 尤其是農廢的部分 |
| 00:13:23,760 | 00:13:25,760 | 這個部分是可以的 |
| 00:13:25,760 | 00:13:27,760 | 是符合我們再生能源 |
| 00:13:27,760 | 00:13:29,760 | 現在業界還是認為說 |
| 00:13:29,760 | 00:13:31,760 | 因為它不是直接產生能源 |
| 00:13:31,760 | 00:13:33,760 | 它是產生甲烷 |
| 00:13:33,760 | 00:13:35,760 | 甲烷才產生能源 |
| 00:13:35,760 | 00:13:37,760 | 如果是農廢 找氣發電 |
| 00:13:37,760 | 00:13:39,760 | 那就是有綠能的一個標章 |
| 00:13:39,760 | 00:13:41,760 | 這一塊因為中間多了一個製程 |
| 00:13:41,760 | 00:13:43,760 | 它是從農廢變甲烷 |
| 00:13:43,760 | 00:13:45,760 | 甲烷再變氫 |
| 00:13:45,760 | 00:13:47,760 | 所以甲烷變氫這一塊 |
| 00:13:47,760 | 00:13:49,760 | 沒有綠能標章 |
| 00:13:49,760 | 00:13:51,760 | 那這個好可惜 |
| 00:13:51,760 | 00:13:53,760 | 包括說英國現在 |
| 00:13:53,760 | 00:13:55,760 | 他們像AZ藥廠 |
| 00:13:55,760 | 00:13:57,760 | 他們就有生物甲烷工廠 |
| 00:13:57,760 | 00:13:59,760 | 他們認為這個產生的就是 |
| 00:13:59,760 | 00:14:01,760 | 農廢去轉換的 |
| 00:14:01,760 | 00:14:03,760 | 但是我們卻在這一塊轉換過程 |
| 00:14:03,760 | 00:14:05,760 | 少了這一段 |
| 00:14:05,760 | 00:14:07,760 | 這件事很可惜 |
| 00:14:07,760 | 00:14:09,760 | 因為我們要鼓勵企業 |
| 00:14:09,760 | 00:14:11,760 | 去跑在我們 |
| 00:14:11,760 | 00:14:13,760 | 一些政策的前面 |
| 00:14:13,760 | 00:14:15,760 | 那也要給他們充足的誘因 |
| 00:14:15,760 | 00:14:17,760 | 那企業當然會認為說 |
| 00:14:17,760 | 00:14:19,760 | 我去從事 |
| 00:14:19,760 | 00:14:21,760 | 用農廢轉換甲烷 |
| 00:14:21,760 | 00:14:23,760 | 轉換成酒精 |
| 00:14:23,760 | 00:14:25,760 | 轉換成氫能 |
| 00:14:25,760 | 00:14:27,760 | 這個是很好的一個方向 |
| 00:14:27,760 | 00:14:29,760 | 那請你研究看看 |
| 00:14:29,760 | 00:14:31,760 | 怎麼樣來做處理 |
| 00:14:31,760 | 00:14:33,760 | 好 阿國你我現在最後30秒 |
| 00:14:33,760 | 00:14:35,760 | 就是我的主題 |
| 00:14:35,760 | 00:14:37,760 | 我剛才說的就是希望 |
| 00:14:37,760 | 00:14:39,760 | 事實上我們經濟委員會 |
| 00:14:39,760 | 00:14:41,760 | 也有去考察 |
| 00:14:41,760 | 00:14:43,760 | 我們現在在新港的農場 |
| 00:14:43,760 | 00:14:45,760 | 台糖在新港的農場 |
| 00:14:45,760 | 00:14:47,760 | 那這個農場 |
| 00:14:47,760 | 00:14:49,760 | 它是鄰近於我們嘉義科學園區 |
| 00:14:49,760 | 00:14:51,760 | 距離嘉義科學園區 |
| 00:14:51,760 | 00:14:53,760 | 大概只有 |
| 00:14:53,760 | 00:14:55,760 | 大概 |
| 00:14:55,760 | 00:14:57,760 | 七分鐘的車程 |
| 00:14:57,760 | 00:14:59,760 | 這個新港農場跟嘉義家科 |
| 00:14:59,760 | 00:15:01,760 | 離嘉科很近 |
| 00:15:01,760 | 00:15:03,760 | 那我們覺得這一個地方 |
| 00:15:03,760 | 00:15:05,760 | 它很適合來做新能源的產業園區 |
| 00:15:05,760 | 00:15:07,760 | 因為我們現在國家的一個 |
| 00:15:07,760 | 00:15:09,760 | 產業園區的佈局上 |
| 00:15:09,760 | 00:15:11,760 | 現在少了對於能源 |
| 00:15:11,760 | 00:15:13,760 | 以能源為主體的 |
| 00:15:13,760 | 00:15:15,760 | 整個的一個產業園區的開發 |
| 00:15:15,760 | 00:15:17,760 | 的一個目標 |
| 00:15:17,760 | 00:15:19,760 | 那我們從過去 |
| 00:15:19,760 | 00:15:21,760 | 我們剛剛講的 |
| 00:15:21,760 | 00:15:23,760 | 不管是氫能啦或者是一些綠能的 |
| 00:15:23,760 | 00:15:25,760 | 一些研究它還是需要一些 |
| 00:15:25,760 | 00:15:27,760 | 有一些產業的群聚化 |
| 00:15:27,760 | 00:15:29,760 | 那如果我們可以在這裡把它變成 |
| 00:15:29,760 | 00:15:31,760 | 新能源的產業園區的話 |
| 00:15:31,760 | 00:15:33,760 | 是可以鼓勵更多 |
| 00:15:33,760 | 00:15:35,760 | 願意去研發新能源的 |
| 00:15:35,760 | 00:15:37,760 | 這樣的一個企業的一個進駐 |
| 00:15:37,760 | 00:15:39,760 | 然後他們如果在這件事情 |
| 00:15:39,760 | 00:15:41,760 | 可以符合R100的話 |
| 00:15:41,760 | 00:15:43,760 | 他們就最近的地方 |
| 00:15:43,760 | 00:15:45,760 | 就是因為台積電在嘉義科學園區 |
| 00:15:45,760 | 00:15:47,760 | 那如果距離七分鐘 |
| 00:15:47,760 | 00:15:49,760 | 支援的新港的農場 |
| 00:15:49,760 | 00:15:51,760 | 變成一個新能源產業園區的話 |
| 00:15:51,760 | 00:15:53,760 | 也方便這些 |
| 00:15:53,760 | 00:15:55,760 | 新能源的企業可以 |
| 00:15:55,760 | 00:15:57,760 | 跟先進的科技產業 |
| 00:15:57,760 | 00:15:59,760 | 他們所需要R100的需求 |
| 00:15:59,760 | 00:16:01,760 | 可以對接所以這件事情 |
| 00:16:01,760 | 00:16:03,760 | 我們現在部長可以趕快 |
| 00:16:03,760 | 00:16:05,760 | 啟動然後來研究 |
| 00:16:05,760 | 00:16:07,760 | 這個新港農產是否 |
| 00:16:07,760 | 00:16:09,760 | 可以讓它轉型成一個新的 |
| 00:16:09,760 | 00:16:11,760 | 產業園區可以可以 |
| 00:16:11,760 | 00:16:13,760 | 好那部長這件事要拜託你 |
| 00:16:13,760 | 00:16:15,760 | 謝謝好謝謝委員 |