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王鴻薇 @ 第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:01,000 | 請進行諮詢 |
| 00:00:07,900 | 00:00:10,520 | 好 謝謝主席 |
| 00:00:10,520 | 00:00:13,160 | 我請 呃 狗明星部長 |
| 00:00:13,280 | 00:00:15,140 | 還有台唐 |
| 00:00:15,780 | 00:00:17,400 | 今天是副總 主席 |
| 00:00:18,400 | 00:00:21,200 | 請這個副總跟部長 謝謝 |
| 00:00:21,200 | 00:00:22,200 | 王委員好 |
| 00:00:22,200 | 00:00:24,200 | 好 部長好 副總好 |
| 00:00:24,200 | 00:00:27,720 | 剛才 陳昭志委員一直在追問 |
| 00:00:27,720 | 00:00:29,480 | 7月16日 |
| 00:00:29,480 | 00:00:32,320 | 台唐和吳乃仁做協商 |
| 00:00:32,320 | 00:00:33,920 | 最後破局 |
| 00:00:33,920 | 00:00:35,920 | 剛才副總也講說 |
| 00:00:35,920 | 00:00:39,440 | 因為吳乃仁所提出來的還款條件 |
| 00:00:39,440 | 00:00:41,720 | 台唐無法接受 |
| 00:00:41,720 | 00:00:45,519 | 但是呢 副總一直不敢啟口 |
| 00:00:45,519 | 00:00:50,720 | 到底吳乃仁提出來的是什麼樣的還款條件 |
| 00:00:50,720 | 00:00:53,720 | 因為對你們來講 真的 |
| 00:00:53,720 | 00:00:55,720 | 應該是難以啟口 |
| 00:00:55,720 | 00:00:57,720 | 那我想問副總 |
| 00:00:57,720 | 00:01:01,720 | 這件事情竟然已經鬧得沸沸揚揚 |
| 00:01:01,720 | 00:01:05,720 | 7月16日 我所得到的訊息 |
| 00:01:05,720 | 00:01:07,720 | 吳乃仁方面 |
| 00:01:07,720 | 00:01:11,720 | 所提出來的還款條件是 |
| 00:01:14,720 | 00:01:17,720 | 每一個月 他還5萬塊 |
| 00:01:17,720 | 00:01:20,720 | 分期償付 |
| 00:01:20,720 | 00:01:23,720 | 請問 是不是如此 |
| 00:01:26,720 | 00:01:28,720 | 報告委員 |
| 00:01:28,720 | 00:01:31,720 | 據我了解 跟這個好像不大相符 |
| 00:01:31,720 | 00:01:33,720 | 那因為 不到5萬塊 |
| 00:01:33,720 | 00:01:36,720 | 因為這個雙方協商還沒有結束 |
| 00:01:36,720 | 00:01:38,720 | 所以在這個協商內容 |
| 00:01:38,720 | 00:01:40,720 | 說實在的 這時候比較不方便對外來說 |
| 00:01:40,720 | 00:01:44,720 | 是在5萬塊以上 還是5萬塊以下呢 |
| 00:01:46,720 | 00:01:49,720 | 這個還是 你都到現在都不知道吧 |
| 00:01:49,720 | 00:01:52,720 | 因為我知道你們台唐去協商之後 |
| 00:01:52,720 | 00:01:54,720 | 律師嚇壞了 |
| 00:01:54,720 | 00:01:57,720 | 完全沒有辦法談下去 |
| 00:01:58,720 | 00:02:01,720 | 你們一直不對外說明 |
| 00:02:01,720 | 00:02:05,720 | 到底吳乃仁被你們放走之後 |
| 00:02:05,720 | 00:02:08,720 | 然後他所提出來的還款條件是什麼 |
| 00:02:08,720 | 00:02:11,720 | 我在這邊聽到 |
| 00:02:11,720 | 00:02:15,720 | 台唐內部議論紛紛 |
| 00:02:15,720 | 00:02:18,720 | 因為吳乃仁提出來條件實在是太爛了 |
| 00:02:18,720 | 00:02:21,720 | 完全沒有任何的誠意 |
| 00:02:21,720 | 00:02:25,720 | 按照我所聽到的 每個月還5萬塊 |
| 00:02:25,720 | 00:02:29,720 | 你們現在吳乃仁是欠你們1億7千萬 |
| 00:02:29,720 | 00:02:31,720 | 如果加計利息的話 |
| 00:02:31,720 | 00:02:33,720 | 按照這個還款計畫 |
| 00:02:33,720 | 00:02:36,720 | 是不是要還300年之久 |
| 00:02:36,720 | 00:02:39,720 | 吳乃仁現在已經79歲了 |
| 00:02:39,720 | 00:02:42,720 | 他要還到379歲嗎 |
| 00:02:42,720 | 00:02:45,720 | 這個當然台唐沒有辦法接受 |
| 00:02:45,720 | 00:02:46,720 | 所以破局 |
| 00:02:46,720 | 00:02:48,720 | 所以我現在要講的是 |
| 00:02:49,720 | 00:02:52,720 | 吳乃仁在你們管收撤銷之後 |
| 00:02:52,720 | 00:02:55,720 | 他所謂的還款計畫 |
| 00:02:55,720 | 00:02:58,720 | 是這麼離譜的一個還款計畫 |
| 00:02:58,720 | 00:02:59,720 | 請問一下 |
| 00:02:59,720 | 00:03:02,720 | 台唐要不要重新申請 |
| 00:03:02,720 | 00:03:03,720 | 給吳乃仁管收 |
| 00:03:03,720 | 00:03:05,720 | 要不要 |
| 00:03:05,720 | 00:03:08,720 | 如果接下來的協商還是沒有 |
| 00:03:08,720 | 00:03:10,720 | 你們還要給他協商機會 |
| 00:03:10,720 | 00:03:12,720 | 什麼時候協商 |
| 00:03:12,720 | 00:03:13,720 | 大概接下來 |
| 00:03:13,720 | 00:03:14,720 | 大概8月的下旬 |
| 00:03:14,720 | 00:03:16,720 | 應該會雙方會再協商 |
| 00:03:16,720 | 00:03:17,720 | 如果說協商 |
| 00:03:17,720 | 00:03:19,720 | 8月下旬什麼時候 |
| 00:03:19,720 | 00:03:21,720 | 雙方的代理人還在喬 |
| 00:03:21,720 | 00:03:23,720 | 你們再繼續讓他拖延 |
| 00:03:23,720 | 00:03:24,720 | 當然不是這個樣子 |
| 00:03:24,720 | 00:03:27,720 | 如果說協商沒有合理的還款計畫 |
| 00:03:27,720 | 00:03:30,720 | 當然台唐公司一定會再申請管收 |
| 00:03:30,720 | 00:03:31,720 | 好等一下 |
| 00:03:31,720 | 00:03:35,720 | 所以你們現在預計8月下旬 |
| 00:03:35,720 | 00:03:38,720 | 再給吳乃仁一次機會是嗎 |
| 00:03:38,720 | 00:03:42,720 | 目前是雙方的代理人 |
| 00:03:42,720 | 00:03:44,720 | 是喬定大概是8月的 |
| 00:03:44,720 | 00:03:45,720 | 你不要一直跟我講代理人 |
| 00:03:45,720 | 00:03:47,720 | 是欠代理人的錢嗎 |
| 00:03:47,720 | 00:03:48,720 | 欠你台唐的錢 |
| 00:03:48,720 | 00:03:50,720 | 是欠台唐的錢 |
| 00:03:50,720 | 00:03:52,720 | 可是雙方的協商代理人 |
| 00:03:52,720 | 00:03:54,720 | 他因為雙方的時間還在喬 |
| 00:03:54,720 | 00:03:56,720 | 如果8月下旬 |
| 00:03:56,720 | 00:03:58,720 | 如果8月下旬 |
| 00:03:58,720 | 00:04:00,720 | 吳乃仁沒有辦法提出 |
| 00:04:00,720 | 00:04:02,720 | 台唐可以接受的還款計畫 |
| 00:04:02,720 | 00:04:06,720 | 台唐就會再度向法院申請管收 |
| 00:04:06,720 | 00:04:07,720 | 是嗎 |
| 00:04:07,720 | 00:04:09,720 | 是是是沒有確定 |
| 00:04:09,720 | 00:04:10,720 | 確定 |
| 00:04:10,720 | 00:04:11,720 | 好來部長 |
| 00:04:11,720 | 00:04:14,720 | 我請問一下 |
| 00:04:14,720 | 00:04:20,720 | 當時台唐跟法院申請撤銷管收 |
| 00:04:20,720 | 00:04:22,720 | 請問是你受益的嗎 |
| 00:04:22,720 | 00:04:24,720 | 不是經濟部沒有在管這個 |
| 00:04:24,720 | 00:04:26,720 | 所以不是你指示的 |
| 00:04:26,720 | 00:04:29,720 | 所以是台唐的決定是嗎 |
| 00:04:29,720 | 00:04:32,720 | 台唐內部怎麼決定我們不知道 |
| 00:04:32,720 | 00:04:33,720 | 你從來不知道 |
| 00:04:33,720 | 00:04:35,720 | 也沒有事先向你報告 |
| 00:04:35,720 | 00:04:36,720 | 都不要報告 |
| 00:04:36,720 | 00:04:37,720 | 也不用 |
| 00:04:37,720 | 00:04:38,720 | 你覺得都不用報告 |
| 00:04:38,720 | 00:04:40,720 | 就像不用通報一樣 |
| 00:04:40,720 | 00:04:41,720 | 無所謂 |
| 00:04:41,720 | 00:04:43,720 | 因為這個權責是他們的權責 |
| 00:04:43,720 | 00:04:46,720 | 台唐現在搞到1億7千萬 |
| 00:04:46,720 | 00:04:48,720 | 已經七八年收不回來 |
| 00:04:48,720 | 00:04:51,720 | 然後搞到現在全社會沸沸揚揚 |
| 00:04:51,720 | 00:04:53,720 | 完全違反社會觀感 |
| 00:04:53,720 | 00:04:56,720 | 那部長也覺得台唐做的好好 |
| 00:04:56,720 | 00:04:57,720 | 很棒 |
| 00:04:57,720 | 00:05:00,720 | 我們的想法還是一樣就是說 |
| 00:05:00,720 | 00:05:03,720 | 能夠盡量能夠把債權拿回來 |
| 00:05:03,720 | 00:05:04,720 | 這個是 |
| 00:05:04,720 | 00:05:05,720 | 盡量 |
| 00:05:05,720 | 00:05:07,720 | 不一定能把債權拿回來的意思 |
| 00:05:07,720 | 00:05:09,720 | 好那部長我直接問你 |
| 00:05:09,720 | 00:05:11,720 | 因為你是台唐的頂頭上司 |
| 00:05:11,720 | 00:05:16,720 | 如果按照現在吳乃元一個月只還5萬塊 |
| 00:05:16,720 | 00:05:19,720 | 我是台唐我立刻就去申請款收了 |
| 00:05:21,720 | 00:05:23,720 | 這是侮辱台唐嗎 |
| 00:05:23,720 | 00:05:24,720 | 是羞辱台唐嗎 |
| 00:05:24,720 | 00:05:27,720 | 你們不申請款收你們就是獨子不是嗎 |
| 00:05:28,720 | 00:05:29,720 | 報告委員這個 |
| 00:05:29,720 | 00:05:32,720 | 若堅是欠你的錢你還不去申請款收 |
| 00:05:32,720 | 00:05:36,720 | 學商跟談判他有他的過程跟技巧 |
| 00:05:36,720 | 00:05:39,720 | 這個部分我們要尊重台康公司 |
| 00:05:40,720 | 00:05:42,720 | 你繼續尊重是不是 |
| 00:05:43,720 | 00:05:44,720 | 所以你不在乎 |
| 00:05:44,720 | 00:05:45,720 | 不是不在乎 |
| 00:05:45,720 | 00:05:47,720 | 這是尊重他們的談判的過程 |
| 00:05:47,720 | 00:05:49,720 | 做的不好你還繼續尊重 |
| 00:05:49,720 | 00:05:51,720 | 我們叫他們應該下台 |
| 00:05:51,720 | 00:05:52,720 | 因為我們沒有實際 |
| 00:05:52,720 | 00:05:54,720 | 又是董事長又是總經理 |
| 00:05:54,720 | 00:05:57,720 | 今天這麼重要的專案報告說他出國了 |
| 00:05:57,720 | 00:06:01,720 | 他所有一個人不在董事長也不在總經理也不在 |
| 00:06:02,720 | 00:06:04,720 | 台中的公司是沒人了是吧 |
| 00:06:04,720 | 00:06:06,720 | 你們經濟部沒有人了嗎 |
| 00:06:06,720 | 00:06:09,720 | 要給他一個人兼任總事長跟總經理 |
| 00:06:10,720 | 00:06:11,720 | 報告委員這個 |
| 00:06:11,720 | 00:06:13,720 | 請問一下來再來問 |
| 00:06:14,720 | 00:06:16,720 | 撤銷款收的決定 |
| 00:06:17,720 | 00:06:20,720 | 是董事會決定還是董事長決定 |
| 00:06:20,720 | 00:06:22,720 | 還是總經理決定 |
| 00:06:22,720 | 00:06:24,720 | 這個可能要我幫他回答 |
| 00:06:25,720 | 00:06:28,720 | 是跟委員報告因為當時公司是 |
| 00:06:29,720 | 00:06:32,720 | 授權這個我們的代理人去開庭的 |
| 00:06:32,720 | 00:06:35,720 | 在庭上應法官的這個 |
| 00:06:35,720 | 00:06:38,720 | 庭信之後做出這個決定的 |
| 00:06:38,720 | 00:06:40,720 | 所以你們都推給代理人 |
| 00:06:41,720 | 00:06:42,720 | 所以台湯很好笑 |
| 00:06:42,720 | 00:06:45,720 | 我們納稅人好今天 |
| 00:06:45,720 | 00:06:47,720 | 託付給我們經濟部 |
| 00:06:47,720 | 00:06:48,720 | 託付給台湯 |
| 00:06:48,720 | 00:06:50,720 | 台湯現在全部都是託給代理人 |
| 00:06:50,720 | 00:06:52,720 | 代理人可以這麼大 |
| 00:06:52,720 | 00:06:55,720 | 一億七千萬由代理人來決定是嗎 |
| 00:06:57,720 | 00:06:58,720 | 報告委員代理人 |
| 00:06:58,720 | 00:07:00,720 | 到時候這個一個月只還五萬塊 |
| 00:07:00,720 | 00:07:03,720 | 代理人說OK你們就接受了 |
| 00:07:03,720 | 00:07:04,720 | 開庭就吞下去嗎 |
| 00:07:05,720 | 00:07:08,720 | 是當時考量到當時開庭的狀況 |
| 00:07:08,720 | 00:07:10,720 | 所做的好那請問一下副總 |
| 00:07:10,720 | 00:07:12,720 | 你們現在一趟至少要設定 |
| 00:07:12,720 | 00:07:14,720 | 無奶人應該幾年之內 |
| 00:07:14,720 | 00:07:16,720 | 要還完這些欠款 |
| 00:07:16,720 | 00:07:18,720 | 跟委員報告這個欠款 |
| 00:07:18,720 | 00:07:20,720 | 其實不是無奶人一個人 |
| 00:07:20,720 | 00:07:22,720 | 是四個債務人 |
| 00:07:22,720 | 00:07:23,720 | 那台湯公司 |
| 00:07:23,720 | 00:07:26,720 | 無奶人一個人欠多少 |
| 00:07:26,720 | 00:07:28,720 | 這是四個人連帶 |
| 00:07:28,720 | 00:07:30,720 | 連帶要負責的這個案子 |
| 00:07:30,720 | 00:07:32,720 | 對呀無奶人要負責的嘛 |
| 00:07:32,720 | 00:07:33,720 | 對不對 |
| 00:07:33,720 | 00:07:34,720 | 四個債務人 |
| 00:07:34,720 | 00:07:36,720 | 那無奶人欠多少 |
| 00:07:36,720 | 00:07:38,720 | 你剛才都說無奶人還了750萬 |
| 00:07:38,720 | 00:07:40,720 | 無奶人還欠多少 |
| 00:07:40,720 | 00:07:42,720 | 這個債務如果說有一個 |
| 00:07:42,720 | 00:07:44,720 | 你到現在都講不清楚喔 |
| 00:07:44,720 | 00:07:45,720 | 要包庇無奶人喔 |
| 00:07:45,720 | 00:07:47,720 | 包庇到這個地步喔 |
| 00:07:48,720 | 00:07:49,720 | 我現在直接說 |
| 00:07:49,720 | 00:07:53,720 | 照理說你們現在就應該撤銷管收 |
| 00:07:53,720 | 00:07:55,720 | 我告訴你你立刻把他關進去 |
| 00:07:55,720 | 00:07:58,720 | 他立刻提出一個比較好的還款計畫啦 |
| 00:07:59,720 | 00:08:01,720 | 你們現在要再給他拖一個月 |
| 00:08:01,720 | 00:08:05,720 | 拖到這個月的下半月下旬 |
| 00:08:05,720 | 00:08:11,720 | 如果你們再沒有去申請管收的話 |
| 00:08:11,720 | 00:08:13,720 | 你們就完全的獨職 |
| 00:08:13,720 | 00:08:15,720 | 這個獨職不是只有台湯獨職 |
| 00:08:15,720 | 00:08:17,720 | 部長你也獨職喔 |
| 00:08:17,720 | 00:08:19,720 | 因為你是主管機關啊 |
| 00:08:19,720 | 00:08:21,720 | 是不是 |
| 00:08:22,720 | 00:08:27,720 | 我們的目標還是希望債權可以收回來啦 |
| 00:08:27,720 | 00:08:28,720 | 那這個 |
| 00:08:28,720 | 00:08:29,720 | 多久之內收回來 |
| 00:08:29,720 | 00:08:30,720 | 來 |
| 00:08:30,720 | 00:08:32,720 | 請你有點大詞好不好 |
| 00:08:32,720 | 00:08:35,720 | 談判跟協商的這個技巧 |
| 00:08:35,720 | 00:08:36,720 | 或是怎麼樣的決定 |
| 00:08:36,720 | 00:08:37,720 | 這個還是要當手 |
| 00:08:37,720 | 00:08:38,720 | 這叫談判技巧喔 |
| 00:08:38,720 | 00:08:39,720 | 對啊 |
| 00:08:39,720 | 00:08:41,720 | 這叫談判技巧喔 |
| 00:08:41,720 | 00:08:42,720 | 是啊 |
| 00:08:42,720 | 00:08:46,720 | 以後所有積欠政府稅款的 |
| 00:08:46,720 | 00:08:47,720 | 或者稅單的 |
| 00:08:47,720 | 00:08:49,720 | 或者違規的 |
| 00:08:49,720 | 00:08:51,720 | 都來跟政府來說來還 |
| 00:08:51,720 | 00:08:53,720 | 我們來談一下這個技巧 |
| 00:08:53,720 | 00:08:54,720 | 這個 |
| 00:08:54,720 | 00:08:55,720 | 吳乃仁技巧特別棒 |
| 00:08:55,720 | 00:08:56,720 | 分層複責 |
| 00:08:56,720 | 00:08:57,720 | 這個意思 |
| 00:08:57,720 | 00:08:58,720 | 吳乃仁的技巧 |
| 00:08:58,720 | 00:08:59,720 | 談判技巧特別棒 |
| 00:08:59,720 | 00:09:00,720 | 他可以去開課了 |
| 00:09:00,720 | 00:09:02,720 | 開一堂怎麼樣 |
| 00:09:02,720 | 00:09:04,720 | 可以延長 |
| 00:09:04,720 | 00:09:06,720 | 可以欠錢不還 |
| 00:09:06,720 | 00:09:08,720 | 對政府欠錢不還的課了 |
| 00:09:08,720 | 00:09:10,720 | 因為他談判技巧特別好 |
| 00:09:10,720 | 00:09:13,720 | 部長你也說得出來喔 |
| 00:09:13,720 | 00:09:14,720 | 分層複責啊 |
| 00:09:14,720 | 00:09:16,720 | 這個還是要尊重台湯 |
| 00:09:16,720 | 00:09:17,720 | 部長 |
| 00:09:17,720 | 00:09:18,720 | 部長 |
| 00:09:18,720 | 00:09:20,720 | 這件事情台湯辦不好 |
| 00:09:20,720 | 00:09:22,720 | 部長有責任 |
| 00:09:22,720 | 00:09:24,720 | 因為你們可以決定 |
| 00:09:24,720 | 00:09:26,720 | 這個董事長總經理啊 |
| 00:09:26,720 | 00:09:27,720 | 辦的這樣無瑟瑟 |
| 00:09:27,720 | 00:09:28,720 | 是啊 |
| 00:09:28,720 | 00:09:29,720 | 辦到這種 |
| 00:09:29,720 | 00:09:31,720 | 剛剛台湯公司已經 |
| 00:09:31,720 | 00:09:32,720 | 剛剛委員報告過了 |
| 00:09:32,720 | 00:09:34,720 | 那要看8月底的狀況 |
| 00:09:34,720 | 00:09:36,720 | 好8月底如果沒有辦法提出 |
| 00:09:36,720 | 00:09:37,720 | 不能成下結論嘛 |
| 00:09:37,720 | 00:09:39,720 | 8月底如果沒有辦法提出 |
| 00:09:39,720 | 00:09:41,720 | 這什麼結論啊 |
| 00:09:41,720 | 00:09:42,720 | 一個月還5萬啊 |
| 00:09:42,720 | 00:09:43,720 | 現在還不知道 |
| 00:09:43,720 | 00:09:44,720 | 我跟你講 |
| 00:09:44,720 | 00:09:46,720 | 我講一個月還5萬還是高的啦 |
| 00:09:46,720 | 00:09:47,720 | 我聽到可能還 |
| 00:09:47,720 | 00:09:49,720 | 根本還不到5萬 |
| 00:09:51,720 | 00:09:53,720 | 所以8月份 |
| 00:09:53,720 | 00:09:56,720 | 8月份如果沒有辦法提出 |
| 00:09:56,720 | 00:09:58,720 | 一個合理償還計畫 |
| 00:09:58,720 | 00:10:00,720 | 而且你們一定要公開啦 |
| 00:10:00,720 | 00:10:01,720 | 你們一定要公開 |
| 00:10:01,720 | 00:10:03,720 | 你們憑什麼不公開 |
| 00:10:03,720 | 00:10:04,720 | 這是國營事業 |
| 00:10:04,720 | 00:10:06,720 | 不是你家的錢喔 |
| 00:10:06,720 | 00:10:08,720 | 所以一定要公開 |
| 00:10:08,720 | 00:10:11,720 | 無奶人到底他的還款計畫是什麼 |
| 00:10:11,720 | 00:10:13,720 | 不要再繼續的包庇無奶人 |
| 00:10:13,720 | 00:10:14,720 | 包庇無奶人 |
| 00:10:14,720 | 00:10:16,720 | 你們通通都瀆職 |
| 00:10:18,720 | 00:10:20,720 | 好謝謝王王委員 |
| 00:10:20,720 | 00:10:21,720 | 謝謝部長 |