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洪毓祥 @ 第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:01,300 | 趙委請做發言 |
| 00:00:10,640 | 00:00:12,640 | 好 謝謝主席 |
| 00:00:12,640 | 00:00:17,040 | 我們有請台銅跟經濟部 |
| 00:00:17,740 | 00:00:18,740 | 我們請兩位 |
| 00:00:26,640 | 00:00:27,140 | 好 |
| 00:00:27,140 | 00:00:27,900 | 趙委早安 |
| 00:00:27,900 | 00:00:28,400 | 早 |
| 00:00:28,400 | 00:00:30,200 | 我想今天的話呢 |
| 00:00:30,200 | 00:00:31,400 | 我們安排這一個 |
| 00:00:31,400 | 00:00:34,100 | 其實中聯的油紙的事件 |
| 00:00:34,100 | 00:00:36,100 | 只是一個單一事件 |
| 00:00:36,100 | 00:00:37,900 | 那基本上我看的是 |
| 00:00:37,900 | 00:00:39,800 | 從審計部的一個報告 |
| 00:00:39,800 | 00:00:41,000 | 債權的不良 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:43,700 | 還有公司的經營的商業的模式 |
| 00:00:43,700 | 00:00:46,700 | 我覺得是台銅公司的整個 |
| 00:00:46,700 | 00:00:49,900 | 公司的治理跟他的內控 |
| 00:00:49,900 | 00:00:51,599 | 其實出現了一個問題 |
| 00:00:51,599 | 00:00:54,200 | 造成這個系統性的一個崩壞 |
| 00:00:54,200 | 00:00:56,000 | 所以基本上的話 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:57,700 | 我把它拱結幾個 |
| 00:00:57,800 | 00:00:58,700 | 第一個就是 |
| 00:00:58,700 | 00:01:00,600 | 我們看到食安的風險 |
| 00:01:00,600 | 00:01:02,900 | 他到底台銅有沒有一個 |
| 00:01:02,900 | 00:01:04,200 | 有沒有一個肩膀 |
| 00:01:04,200 | 00:01:05,800 | 可以是往上承報的 |
| 00:01:05,800 | 00:01:07,000 | 國家的債權是不是 |
| 00:01:07,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 可以積極的追得回來 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:11,800 | 另外這個土地的造零 |
| 00:01:11,800 | 00:01:13,200 | 他根本就是一個 |
| 00:01:13,200 | 00:01:14,500 | 年年申報合格 |
| 00:01:14,500 | 00:01:15,900 | 但審計部一查 |
| 00:01:15,900 | 00:01:18,000 | 就是有很大的一個問題 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 所以我想把這幾件事情 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:21,700 | 綜合看成是一個公司的 |
| 00:01:21,700 | 00:01:23,900 | 治理的一個問題 |
| 00:01:23,900 | 00:01:26,500 | 那從中聯的這個油紙 |
| 00:01:26,500 | 00:01:28,300 | 我想在你們的報告裡頭 |
| 00:01:28,300 | 00:01:29,900 | 講的都很清楚 |
| 00:01:29,900 | 00:01:32,100 | 但我覺得也避重就輕 |
| 00:01:32,900 | 00:01:35,400 | 因為按照台銅的說法 |
| 00:01:35,400 | 00:01:39,300 | 5月11號在中聯的311潮採樣 |
| 00:01:39,300 | 00:01:41,000 | 那這個採樣的話 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:42,300 | 基本上就是不符合 |
| 00:01:42,300 | 00:01:45,100 | 也就是超標7倍的那個油潮 |
| 00:01:45,100 | 00:01:48,800 | 那之後你們改採的是301對不對 |
| 00:01:48,800 | 00:01:50,000 | 也沒有問題 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:51,900 | 然後進口到你台銅 |
| 00:01:51,900 | 00:01:54,900 | 再做成這個實用的一個油紙 |
| 00:01:54,900 | 00:01:56,200 | 但是在你們的報告 |
| 00:01:56,200 | 00:01:57,500 | 就避重就輕 |
| 00:01:57,500 | 00:01:59,500 | 也就是我看不到311潮 |
| 00:01:59,500 | 00:02:01,600 | 我只看到301的油潮 |
| 00:02:01,600 | 00:02:02,500 | 那個是合格 |
| 00:02:02,500 | 00:02:05,500 | 那是你後來台銅公司再買的 |
| 00:02:05,500 | 00:02:07,500 | 那我的問題就是說 |
| 00:02:07,500 | 00:02:11,200 | 基本上這個在5月15號 |
| 00:02:11,200 | 00:02:13,100 | 5月11號你們的採樣 |
| 00:02:13,100 | 00:02:15,500 | 15號拿到這樣子的報告之後 |
| 00:02:15,500 | 00:02:17,400 | 當然你們現在的說法 |
| 00:02:17,400 | 00:02:18,600 | 當然就是跟 |
| 00:02:18,600 | 00:02:21,500 | 剛剛衛福部江市長的說法一樣 |
| 00:02:21,500 | 00:02:24,200 | 這個東西就不列入 |
| 00:02:24,200 | 00:02:26,200 | 因為你規定的產品通報不同 |
| 00:02:26,200 | 00:02:28,600 | 跟食安法第七條第五項 |
| 00:02:28,600 | 00:02:30,899 | 但我覺得這個蠻嚴重的 |
| 00:02:30,899 | 00:02:33,700 | 因為第一個你311號的油潮 |
| 00:02:33,700 | 00:02:35,500 | 到底會不會流到其他的油潮 |
| 00:02:35,500 | 00:02:37,200 | 因為油潮 tank是pipe |
| 00:02:37,200 | 00:02:38,799 | 管線是相通的 |
| 00:02:38,799 | 00:02:40,200 | 所以這一塊的話 |
| 00:02:40,200 | 00:02:42,100 | 我想要請教一下的 |
| 00:02:42,100 | 00:02:46,200 | 就是台銅在你們的ESG的資料寫的 |
| 00:02:46,200 | 00:02:48,700 | 身為國營事業提供產品服務 |
| 00:02:48,700 | 00:02:52,200 | 你因為國內食品產業之典範 |
| 00:02:52,200 | 00:02:54,200 | 尤其在食品安全方面 |
| 00:02:54,200 | 00:02:57,200 | 更要發揮領頭羊的角色 |
| 00:02:57,200 | 00:02:59,700 | 所以明知你有問題 |
| 00:02:59,700 | 00:03:01,200 | 那沒有通報 |
| 00:03:01,200 | 00:03:03,200 | 甚至法律上沒有你就不通報 |
| 00:03:03,200 | 00:03:05,200 | 這我覺得違反你們公司 |
| 00:03:05,200 | 00:03:08,200 | ESG的宣稱的寫法 |
| 00:03:08,200 | 00:03:10,200 | 你也無論被投羊耶 |
| 00:03:10,200 | 00:03:13,200 | 我想請教部長跟台銅的回應 |
| 00:03:15,200 | 00:03:17,200 | 我先來說明就是說 |
| 00:03:17,200 | 00:03:20,200 | 311的油潮檢驗它不合格 |
| 00:03:20,200 | 00:03:22,200 | 所以台灣公司拒收 |
| 00:03:24,200 | 00:03:26,700 | 那後續怎麼樣處理這個311油潮 |
| 00:03:26,700 | 00:03:28,200 | 事實上台灣公司並 |
| 00:03:28,200 | 00:03:29,200 | 它沒有 |
| 00:03:29,200 | 00:03:30,200 | 因為那個是 |
| 00:03:30,200 | 00:03:32,700 | 權利人是屬於中原公司的 |
| 00:03:32,700 | 00:03:34,700 | 所以它也沒有辦法去 |
| 00:03:34,700 | 00:03:36,200 | 說你到底要怎麼處理 |
| 00:03:36,200 | 00:03:38,200 | 但是事實上現在 |
| 00:03:38,200 | 00:03:40,200 | 據我了解311的油潮的油 |
| 00:03:40,200 | 00:03:42,200 | 事實上還在中原的油庫裡面 |
| 00:03:42,200 | 00:03:44,200 | 事實上是沒有賣出去的 |
| 00:03:45,700 | 00:03:47,200 | 所以台灣公司基本上 |
| 00:03:47,200 | 00:03:49,200 | 它也沒有那個權利說 |
| 00:03:50,200 | 00:03:52,200 | 這批油到底要怎麼處理 |
| 00:03:52,200 | 00:03:54,200 | 它是不是有賣出來了 |
| 00:03:54,200 | 00:03:56,200 | 它基本上它只吃一個 |
| 00:03:56,200 | 00:03:57,200 | 那我的問題就是說 |
| 00:03:57,200 | 00:03:58,200 | 台銅這個檢驗 |
| 00:03:58,200 | 00:04:00,200 | 你這個5月11號的 |
| 00:04:00,200 | 00:04:01,200 | 異常的通報 |
| 00:04:01,200 | 00:04:02,200 | 也就是5月15號 |
| 00:04:02,200 | 00:04:03,200 | 你看到報告的時候 |
| 00:04:03,200 | 00:04:06,200 | 經濟部什麼時候知道這件事情 |
| 00:04:06,200 | 00:04:08,200 | 第一次知道這件事 |
| 00:04:09,200 | 00:04:13,200 | 事實上我們是7月28號才去這個 |
| 00:04:13,200 | 00:04:16,200 | 台灣公司是地查核 |
| 00:04:17,200 | 00:04:19,200 | 所以是到7月28號 |
| 00:04:19,200 | 00:04:21,200 | 經濟部才去看 |
| 00:04:21,200 | 00:04:23,200 | 然後才知道有這件事情 |
| 00:04:23,200 | 00:04:25,200 | 對 因為基本上來講 |
| 00:04:25,200 | 00:04:27,200 | 台灣公司報給我們都是合規 |
| 00:04:27,200 | 00:04:30,200 | 都是合標 |
| 00:04:30,200 | 00:04:32,200 | 32次的檢驗基本上 |
| 00:04:32,200 | 00:04:34,200 | 包括中央政府 地方政府 |
| 00:04:34,200 | 00:04:35,200 | 還有他們自主檢驗 |
| 00:04:35,200 | 00:04:36,200 | 但是你去查的時候 |
| 00:04:36,200 | 00:04:39,200 | 是311朝的那個通報不合 |
| 00:04:39,200 | 00:04:40,200 | 就是那個檢驗不合格 |
| 00:04:40,200 | 00:04:42,200 | 你到7月28號才知道 |
| 00:04:42,200 | 00:04:45,200 | 它告訴我們實地的說明以後 |
| 00:04:45,200 | 00:04:46,200 | 我們才知道 |
| 00:04:46,200 | 00:04:49,200 | 好 那台航有沒有去跟衛福部說 |
| 00:04:49,200 | 00:04:51,200 | 有沒有去通報衛福部 |
| 00:04:51,200 | 00:04:53,200 | 是 跟委員報告 |
| 00:04:53,200 | 00:04:56,200 | 其實台灣公司是用最嚴格的方式 |
| 00:04:56,200 | 00:04:57,200 | 那你現在回答我 |
| 00:04:57,200 | 00:04:58,200 | 有沒有跟衛福部報告 |
| 00:04:58,200 | 00:05:00,200 | 不管公文或什麼東西 |
| 00:05:00,200 | 00:05:02,200 | 這個我們不會去報告 |
| 00:05:02,200 | 00:05:05,200 | 因為這個是我們採購驗收 |
| 00:05:05,200 | 00:05:07,200 | 等於說沒有通過驗收 |
| 00:05:07,200 | 00:05:08,200 | 它沒有合格 |
| 00:05:08,200 | 00:05:10,200 | 沒有合乎我們的採購規則 |
| 00:05:10,200 | 00:05:11,200 | 這樣子你覺得符合你們 |
| 00:05:11,200 | 00:05:13,200 | 食品領頭羊的角色 |
| 00:05:13,200 | 00:05:17,200 | 就現在目前的食安法規定 |
| 00:05:17,200 | 00:05:18,200 | 國營試驗 |
| 00:05:18,200 | 00:05:19,200 | 國營試驗 |
| 00:05:19,200 | 00:05:20,200 | 是 沒有錯 |
| 00:05:20,200 | 00:05:23,200 | 那一線線型的食安法的規定 |
| 00:05:23,200 | 00:05:26,200 | 所以食安法的規定是你的上限 |
| 00:05:26,200 | 00:05:27,200 | 不是你的底線 |
| 00:05:27,200 | 00:05:29,200 | 不是 原料它沒有規範 |
| 00:05:29,200 | 00:05:32,200 | 本篇批的安全標準 |
| 00:05:32,200 | 00:05:34,200 | 所以它沒有所謂超標的問題 |
| 00:05:34,200 | 00:05:36,200 | 也沒有所謂的超標七倍的問題 |
| 00:05:36,200 | 00:05:40,200 | 好 我想提一下這個食藥署署長 |
| 00:05:41,200 | 00:05:44,200 | 我想就這個問題請教一下 |
| 00:05:44,200 | 00:05:45,200 | 因為說實在的 |
| 00:05:45,200 | 00:05:47,200 | 如果按照台糖的說法 |
| 00:05:47,200 | 00:05:48,200 | 你是不知道嘛 |
| 00:05:48,200 | 00:05:50,200 | 那你什麼時候才知道這件事 |
| 00:05:50,200 | 00:05:53,200 | 因為針對中聯這個事件 |
| 00:05:53,200 | 00:05:57,200 | 我們7月1號就把這個關起來 |
| 00:05:57,200 | 00:05:59,200 | 之後我們就陸陸續續進場 |
| 00:05:59,200 | 00:06:01,200 | 去做所謂調查 |
| 00:06:01,200 | 00:06:03,200 | 確確知道調查的時間 |
| 00:06:03,200 | 00:06:04,200 | 是在7月中的時候 |
| 00:06:04,200 | 00:06:06,200 | 我們看到一筆數字 |
| 00:06:06,200 | 00:06:08,200 | 這個數字裡面是台糖 |
| 00:06:08,200 | 00:06:10,200 | 所以你比經濟部7月28號再早一點 |
| 00:06:10,200 | 00:06:11,200 | 知道台糖真的是 |
| 00:06:11,200 | 00:06:14,200 | 我想這件事情時間點上面 |
| 00:06:14,200 | 00:06:16,200 | 我們的時間點是這樣知道 |
| 00:06:16,200 | 00:06:18,200 | 那經濟部知道的時間 |
| 00:06:18,200 | 00:06:19,200 | 我想就是可能 |
| 00:06:19,200 | 00:06:24,200 | 因為台糖是在地方的直轄市 |
| 00:06:24,200 | 00:06:26,200 | 可能會跟直轄市說明 |
| 00:06:26,200 | 00:06:27,200 | 所以直轄市台南市政府 |
| 00:06:27,200 | 00:06:28,200 | 應該通報給你 |
| 00:06:28,200 | 00:06:29,200 | 應該是高雄 |
| 00:06:29,200 | 00:06:32,200 | 我們是7月中的時候知道這件事情 |
| 00:06:32,200 | 00:06:34,200 | 確確的時間是在這個時間 |
| 00:06:34,200 | 00:06:37,200 | 我想要問一下台糖還有食藥署 |
| 00:06:37,200 | 00:06:38,200 | 我們都有食安雲 |
| 00:06:38,200 | 00:06:41,200 | 所以台糖的每一項食品的檢驗 |
| 00:06:41,200 | 00:06:42,200 | 都有像食安雲 |
| 00:06:42,200 | 00:06:44,200 | 衛福部是不是可以追溯得到 |
| 00:06:45,200 | 00:06:48,200 | 報委員這是一個很關鍵的 |
| 00:06:48,200 | 00:06:51,200 | 它是所謂整個製程中的 |
| 00:06:51,200 | 00:06:54,200 | 從黃豆開始到成品 |
| 00:06:54,200 | 00:06:55,200 | 其實它要報通報的 |
| 00:06:55,200 | 00:06:58,200 | 我們管的是2PPB是成品 |
| 00:06:58,200 | 00:07:00,200 | 它不是中間的 |
| 00:07:00,200 | 00:07:01,200 | 出膠脫膠原油 |
| 00:07:01,200 | 00:07:04,200 | 其實經驗之後除了脫酸脫臭 |
| 00:07:04,200 | 00:07:08,200 | 跟我們的脫中和的 |
| 00:07:08,200 | 00:07:11,200 | 豬油和原料 |
| 00:07:11,200 | 00:07:12,200 | 應該是說這個是 |
| 00:07:12,200 | 00:07:16,200 | 製程過程中的一項中間產品 |
| 00:07:16,200 | 00:07:18,200 | 這中間產品是不能吃的 |
| 00:07:18,200 | 00:07:22,200 | 又臭又酸然後顏色又混濁 |
| 00:07:22,200 | 00:07:25,200 | 不會是食品也不是成品要去管的 |
| 00:07:25,200 | 00:07:29,200 | 所以我們整個食品安全衛生管理法 |
| 00:07:29,200 | 00:07:31,200 | 裡面對於所謂的食品中的汙染物 |
| 00:07:31,200 | 00:07:33,200 | 以及它的毒素 |
| 00:07:33,200 | 00:07:36,200 | 我們都其實在管理裡面一個 |
| 00:07:36,200 | 00:07:38,200 | 複表3有關於BAP的說明 |
| 00:07:38,200 | 00:07:40,200 | 很清楚的我們可以知道 |
| 00:07:40,200 | 00:07:41,200 | 老百姓沒辦法接受 |
| 00:07:41,200 | 00:07:42,200 | 因為你最後 |
| 00:07:42,200 | 00:07:43,200 | 原則上是成品 |
| 00:07:43,200 | 00:07:44,200 | 它不是成品 |
| 00:07:44,200 | 00:07:45,200 | 不是一個食安法管理 |
| 00:07:45,200 | 00:07:46,200 | 這是確切的 |
| 00:07:46,200 | 00:07:50,200 | 這個其實如果在所有的製程過程中 |
| 00:07:50,200 | 00:07:51,200 | 要去驗 |
| 00:07:51,200 | 00:07:53,200 | 所以食安法會修 |
| 00:07:53,200 | 00:07:55,200 | 它整體的下降 |
| 00:07:55,200 | 00:07:58,200 | 食安法修的時候會把這個動作 |
| 00:07:58,200 | 00:07:59,200 | 這個部分大家可以討論 |
| 00:07:59,200 | 00:08:00,200 | 我們講這部分 |
| 00:08:00,200 | 00:08:02,200 | 其實大家共同討論在未來 |
| 00:08:02,200 | 00:08:03,200 | 謝謝 |
| 00:08:03,200 | 00:08:04,200 | 好 |
| 00:08:04,200 | 00:08:06,200 | 部長跟食安署署長請回 |
| 00:08:06,200 | 00:08:08,200 | 我想要請教一下台唐 |
| 00:08:08,200 | 00:08:12,200 | 在這個債權的這個問題 |
| 00:08:12,200 | 00:08:14,200 | 我們看審計部的報告 |
| 00:08:14,200 | 00:08:18,200 | 預期加催收欠款總共4億7391 |
| 00:08:18,200 | 00:08:20,200 | 催收款是4億7209 |
| 00:08:20,200 | 00:08:23,200 | 所以跟2013年第四季比較 |
| 00:08:23,200 | 00:08:26,200 | 催收款是從3億8232萬 |
| 00:08:26,200 | 00:08:28,200 | 到4億7209萬 |
| 00:08:28,200 | 00:08:32,200 | 一年增加8977萬催收款 |
| 00:08:32,200 | 00:08:34,200 | 那在這裡頭的話 |
| 00:08:34,200 | 00:08:37,200 | 我覺得你這個成長幅度催收款太驚人了 |
| 00:08:37,200 | 00:08:38,200 | 我想問一下 |
| 00:08:38,200 | 00:08:41,200 | 有關於台唐的蔡副總理 |
| 00:08:41,200 | 00:08:43,200 | 知不知道在你這個催收款裡頭 |
| 00:08:43,200 | 00:08:44,200 | 4億多 |
| 00:08:44,200 | 00:08:52,200 | 其中有無奈人的案子1億1796萬的這一筆 |
| 00:08:52,200 | 00:08:53,200 | 是 |
| 00:08:53,200 | 00:08:54,200 | 那跟委員報告 |
| 00:08:54,200 | 00:08:56,200 | 那我們的催收款裡頭 |
| 00:08:56,200 | 00:08:58,200 | 是有包括無奈人的這一項 |
| 00:08:58,200 | 00:09:00,200 | 是有包括嗎 |
| 00:09:00,200 | 00:09:01,200 | 有 |
| 00:09:01,200 | 00:09:02,200 | 那他現在還了多少 |
| 00:09:02,200 | 00:09:09,200 | 他已經還了金額3700多萬的樣子 |
| 00:09:09,200 | 00:09:10,200 | 我看一下數字 |
| 00:09:10,200 | 00:09:13,200 | 你們講公開追回只有700萬 |
| 00:09:13,200 | 00:09:16,200 | 我是講他的喔 |
| 00:09:16,200 | 00:09:18,200 | 不是其他四位債權人喔 |
| 00:09:18,200 | 00:09:20,200 | 750萬 |
| 00:09:20,200 | 00:09:21,200 | 750萬嘛對不對 |
| 00:09:21,200 | 00:09:24,200 | 你們公開宣稱700多萬 |
| 00:09:24,200 | 00:09:25,200 | 700多萬喔 |
| 00:09:25,200 | 00:09:29,200 | 所以1億1700多多少的話才700多 |
| 00:09:29,200 | 00:09:31,200 | 那我的問題是說 |
| 00:09:31,200 | 00:09:32,200 | 你們做得很好啊 |
| 00:09:32,200 | 00:09:34,200 | 你們去做的管收嘛 |
| 00:09:34,200 | 00:09:36,200 | 那管收之後 |
| 00:09:36,200 | 00:09:40,200 | 7月16號第一次協商沒有共識 |
| 00:09:40,200 | 00:09:41,200 | 對不對 |
| 00:09:41,200 | 00:09:42,200 | 你6月11日裁定管收 |
| 00:09:42,200 | 00:09:45,200 | 22號台唐才撤回管收 |
| 00:09:45,200 | 00:09:47,200 | 然後7月16號再協商 |
| 00:09:47,200 | 00:09:49,200 | 7月20號是你的期限有沒有 |
| 00:09:49,200 | 00:09:50,200 | 我想要知道的是 |
| 00:09:50,200 | 00:09:52,200 | 台唐撤回管收申請 |
| 00:09:52,200 | 00:09:54,200 | 這個決策誰決定的 |
| 00:09:54,200 | 00:09:55,200 | 誰授權的 |
| 00:09:55,200 | 00:09:59,200 | 法務單位總經理董事長 |
| 00:09:59,200 | 00:10:01,200 | 是我們是有委託啦 |
| 00:10:01,200 | 00:10:04,200 | 委託律師來到 |
| 00:10:04,200 | 00:10:05,200 | 律師是委託 |
| 00:10:05,200 | 00:10:08,200 | 但是誰決定要撤回 |
| 00:10:08,200 | 00:10:11,200 | 是律師當場做成的決定 |
| 00:10:12,200 | 00:10:15,200 | 是律師當場做成的決定 |
| 00:10:15,200 | 00:10:17,200 | 律師他決定不用問當事人 |
| 00:10:17,200 | 00:10:19,200 | 不用問你們台唐 |
| 00:10:19,200 | 00:10:22,200 | 他是硬法官的說明喔 |
| 00:10:22,200 | 00:10:23,200 | 你跟法官說明不要 |
| 00:10:23,200 | 00:10:25,200 | 法官是說你們台唐主動撤請 |
| 00:10:25,200 | 00:10:28,200 | 要主動的一個撤回 |
| 00:10:32,200 | 00:10:33,200 | 各位委員報告喔 |
| 00:10:33,200 | 00:10:37,200 | 這個案子是我們的律師 |
| 00:10:37,200 | 00:10:39,200 | 就是這個代理人 |
| 00:10:39,200 | 00:10:42,200 | 在現場經法官詢問的時候 |
| 00:10:42,200 | 00:10:43,200 | 我們才答應的 |
| 00:10:43,200 | 00:10:45,200 | 所以一切都推給律師 |
| 00:10:45,200 | 00:10:46,200 | 不對啊 |
| 00:10:46,200 | 00:10:47,200 | 我們委託律師 |
| 00:10:47,200 | 00:10:49,200 | 律師還是會打電話回來問你啊 |
| 00:10:49,200 | 00:10:51,200 | 當時受權的時候 |
| 00:10:51,200 | 00:10:54,200 | 是有全權受權給這個代理人 |
| 00:10:57,200 | 00:10:59,200 | 這個實在是很扯啊 |
| 00:10:59,200 | 00:11:00,200 | 來那我再問你喔 |
| 00:11:00,200 | 00:11:02,200 | 你撤回管收你換到了什麼 |
| 00:11:04,200 | 00:11:07,200 | 就是你要撤回管收總是有個理由嗎 |
| 00:11:07,200 | 00:11:08,200 | 你換到什麼 |
| 00:11:08,200 | 00:11:09,200 | 換到他願意還錢 |
| 00:11:09,200 | 00:11:11,200 | 換到他願意新的擔保 |
| 00:11:11,200 | 00:11:14,200 | 還是新的什麼資產抵押等等 |
| 00:11:15,200 | 00:11:16,200 | 是各位委員報告 |
| 00:11:16,200 | 00:11:18,200 | 因為管收的目的 |
| 00:11:18,200 | 00:11:21,200 | 我們是希望債務人出來清場債務 |
| 00:11:21,200 | 00:11:23,200 | 那我們考量多 |
| 00:11:23,200 | 00:11:24,200 | 如果一直關在裡頭 |
| 00:11:24,200 | 00:11:25,200 | 我們還是拿不到錢 |
| 00:11:25,200 | 00:11:27,200 | 如果他不來協商 |
| 00:11:27,200 | 00:11:29,200 | 那當場這個債務人的律師 |
| 00:11:29,200 | 00:11:30,200 | 委任律師 |
| 00:11:30,200 | 00:11:31,200 | 你確定嗎 |
| 00:11:31,200 | 00:11:32,200 | 我的看法跟你不一樣 |
| 00:11:32,200 | 00:11:34,200 | 我覺得管收久一點 |
| 00:11:34,200 | 00:11:35,200 | 他就會主動還了 |
| 00:11:35,200 | 00:11:37,200 | 我們當然希望他還 |
| 00:11:37,200 | 00:11:38,200 | 你就關久一點 |
| 00:11:38,200 | 00:11:39,200 | 幹嘛撤回管收 |
| 00:11:39,200 | 00:11:41,200 | 撤回管收你換不到什麼 |
| 00:11:41,200 | 00:11:43,200 | 國家上議員的債權 |
| 00:11:43,200 | 00:11:44,200 | 然後你只是說 |
| 00:11:44,200 | 00:11:46,200 | 我願意坐下來談就可以撤回 |
| 00:11:46,200 | 00:11:47,200 | 什麼東西都沒有 |
| 00:11:47,200 | 00:11:49,200 | 台糖可以接受 |
| 00:11:49,200 | 00:11:52,200 | 這在一般民間公司怎麼會接受 |
| 00:11:52,200 | 00:11:53,200 | 是各位委員報告 |
| 00:11:53,200 | 00:11:54,200 | 我們當然是 |
| 00:11:54,200 | 00:11:56,200 | 如果這個債務人沒有履行債務的話 |
| 00:11:56,200 | 00:11:59,200 | 我們當然還會再次申請管收 |
| 00:11:59,200 | 00:12:00,200 | 可是你再次申請管數 |
| 00:12:00,200 | 00:12:02,200 | 你的理由又要不同了 |
| 00:12:02,200 | 00:12:03,200 | 你要有新的管收原因 |
| 00:12:03,200 | 00:12:04,200 | 所以你下一次 |
| 00:12:04,200 | 00:12:05,200 | 如果再申請管數 |
| 00:12:05,200 | 00:12:07,200 | 你新的管收原因是什麼 |
| 00:12:08,200 | 00:12:11,200 | 而且在管收是在管收一次違憲 |
| 00:12:14,200 | 00:12:16,200 | 你們家的法務是這樣子的 |
| 00:12:17,200 | 00:12:18,200 | 報告委員 |
| 00:12:18,200 | 00:12:20,200 | 關於管收的次數不分 |
| 00:12:20,200 | 00:12:22,200 | 法律上沒有限制他的次數 |
| 00:12:22,200 | 00:12:24,200 | 所以如果交付管所有要件 |
| 00:12:24,200 | 00:12:26,200 | 還可以繼續申請管收 |
| 00:12:26,200 | 00:12:27,200 | 好那我問你好了 |
| 00:12:27,200 | 00:12:28,200 | 7月20號的話 |
| 00:12:28,200 | 00:12:30,200 | 他現在還是沒有達到共識 |
| 00:12:30,200 | 00:12:32,200 | 7月20號是第一次 |
| 00:12:32,200 | 00:12:33,200 | 20號說要再給你 |
| 00:12:33,200 | 00:12:34,200 | 20號說要再給你 |
| 00:12:34,200 | 00:12:35,200 | 現在的進度 |
| 00:12:37,200 | 00:12:39,200 | 報告委員那個進度可能 |
| 00:12:39,200 | 00:12:41,200 | 事後補給我 |
| 00:12:41,200 | 00:12:42,200 | 這時候可以幫你 |
| 00:12:42,200 | 00:12:44,200 | 因為現在協商還在持續 |
| 00:12:44,200 | 00:12:45,200 | 全國都在看 |
| 00:12:45,200 | 00:12:47,200 | 這國家級的債權 |
| 00:12:49,200 | 00:12:52,200 | 是因為那個協商還在持續進展中 |
| 00:12:52,200 | 00:12:53,200 | 那我們覺得到時候 |
| 00:12:53,200 | 00:12:55,200 | 如果說整體告一個段落之後 |
| 00:12:55,200 | 00:12:56,200 | 不管結果怎麼樣 |
| 00:12:56,200 | 00:12:58,200 | 協商總是有個due date |
| 00:12:58,200 | 00:12:59,200 | 期限 |
| 00:13:00,200 | 00:13:01,200 | 因為期限的部分 |
| 00:13:01,200 | 00:13:03,200 | 我們要看他的協商的進展狀況 |
| 00:13:03,200 | 00:13:04,200 | 來做決定 |
| 00:13:04,200 | 00:13:05,200 | 所以還是沒辦法 |
| 00:13:05,200 | 00:13:07,200 | 所以我台東製造不來 |
| 00:13:07,200 | 00:13:09,200 | 我都缺錢免費就好了 |
| 00:13:10,200 | 00:13:12,200 | 以前的George Mary那個製造就免費 |
| 00:13:17,200 | 00:13:18,200 | 好這個你事後給我報告 |
| 00:13:18,200 | 00:13:20,200 | 我想要知道是你們這個 |
| 00:13:20,200 | 00:13:21,200 | 整個後續的進度 |
| 00:13:21,200 | 00:13:22,200 | 什麼時候可以催收回來 |
| 00:13:22,200 | 00:13:24,200 | 審計部也坐在這邊 |
| 00:13:24,200 | 00:13:25,200 | 對不對 |
| 00:13:25,200 | 00:13:27,200 | 這也是很大的一個債權的問題 |
| 00:13:27,200 | 00:13:29,200 | 最後一個小問題 |
| 00:13:29,200 | 00:13:31,200 | 但我覺得這個問題是蠻嚴重的 |
| 00:13:31,200 | 00:13:32,200 | 也就是平地照領 |
| 00:13:32,200 | 00:13:34,200 | 照領補助的問題 |
| 00:13:34,200 | 00:13:36,200 | 在我們審計部的報告裡頭 |
| 00:13:36,200 | 00:13:37,200 | 林保署核定的輔助運機 |
| 00:13:37,200 | 00:13:39,200 | 在114年度 |
| 00:13:39,200 | 00:13:41,200 | 3531.95公頃 |
| 00:13:41,200 | 00:13:43,200 | 經費6000萬元 |
| 00:13:43,200 | 00:13:46,200 | 結果審計部請林保署用無人機航拍 |
| 00:13:46,200 | 00:13:49,200 | 再跟台唐的GIS土地清測比對 |
| 00:13:49,200 | 00:13:51,200 | 發現無比土地 |
| 00:13:51,200 | 00:13:53,200 | 有的遭佔治土用多時方 |
| 00:13:53,200 | 00:13:56,200 | 有的遭遇大量廢棄物占用耕作 |
| 00:13:57,200 | 00:13:59,200 | 林務法省長沒有實際照領 |
| 00:13:59,200 | 00:14:02,200 | 然後你們台唐121314 |
| 00:14:02,200 | 00:14:05,200 | 送給林保署的成果都寫合格 |
| 00:14:05,200 | 00:14:09,200 | 持續持續領取照領的補助 |
| 00:14:09,200 | 00:14:11,200 | 這是有造假詐欺 |
| 00:14:11,200 | 00:14:13,200 | 公務員不時登載的問題 |
| 00:14:13,200 | 00:14:15,200 | 再說明一下 |
| 00:14:15,200 | 00:14:17,200 | 是那我簡單的說明 |
| 00:14:17,200 | 00:14:19,200 | 就是我們平地照領的面積 |
| 00:14:19,200 | 00:14:21,200 | 其實講起來是非常大 |
| 00:14:21,200 | 00:14:22,200 | 他的面積 |
| 00:14:22,200 | 00:14:24,200 | 沒有沒有我現在就針對這無比 |
| 00:14:24,200 | 00:14:26,200 | 審計部點出來的這無比 |
| 00:14:26,200 | 00:14:28,200 | 這無比裡面 |
| 00:14:28,200 | 00:14:30,200 | 他也不是全部的面積 |
| 00:14:30,200 | 00:14:32,200 | 都有被請到 |
| 00:14:32,200 | 00:14:34,200 | 或者說被這個 |
| 00:14:34,200 | 00:14:37,200 | 比這無比土地是耕作地還是農地 |
| 00:14:37,200 | 00:14:38,200 | 還是山坡地等等 |
| 00:14:38,200 | 00:14:39,200 | 他是農業用地 |
| 00:14:39,200 | 00:14:41,200 | 農業用地 |
| 00:14:41,200 | 00:14:44,200 | 這個我就想要隱瞞一個問題 |
| 00:14:44,200 | 00:14:46,200 | 你們還是要再給我 |
| 00:14:46,200 | 00:14:48,200 | 因為這個東西是不實的造假 |
| 00:14:48,200 | 00:14:49,200 | 這很嚴重 |
| 00:14:49,200 | 00:14:51,200 | 因為審計部都幫你鋼出來 |
| 00:14:51,200 | 00:14:53,200 | 所以你們要回去好好徹查一下 |
| 00:14:53,200 | 00:14:55,200 | 另外你剛回答很好 |
| 00:14:55,200 | 00:14:57,200 | 我也去查就是農地 |
| 00:14:57,200 | 00:15:00,200 | 所以之前我在5月6號的話 |
| 00:15:00,200 | 00:15:04,200 | 我們在審農法部實行細緻條例的時候 |
| 00:15:04,200 | 00:15:06,200 | 這個執政黨的委員說 |
| 00:15:06,200 | 00:15:08,200 | 這個農法實施條例 |
| 00:15:08,200 | 00:15:10,200 | 地方自治規範有基礎 |
| 00:15:10,200 | 00:15:12,200 | 尚無至愛難行之處 |
| 00:15:12,200 | 00:15:13,200 | 不用在第十條之一 |
| 00:15:13,200 | 00:15:15,200 | 第九條也不支持 |
| 00:15:15,200 | 00:15:18,200 | 也就是說農地清到這些 |
| 00:15:18,200 | 00:15:20,200 | 廢棄物被人家占用 |
| 00:15:20,200 | 00:15:22,200 | 然後現行的農業部說 |
| 00:15:22,200 | 00:15:24,200 | 不會 現在的方法就很好 |
| 00:15:24,200 | 00:15:26,200 | 可是台唐的一個國營試驗 |
| 00:15:26,200 | 00:15:27,200 | 然後土地被人家占用 |
| 00:15:27,200 | 00:15:28,200 | 被人家清到 |
| 00:15:28,200 | 00:15:30,200 | 你不覺得農法的土地的條例 |
| 00:15:30,200 | 00:15:33,200 | 應該使用在加日更高的刑罰跟罰則嗎 |
| 00:15:33,200 | 00:15:35,200 | 這對台唐是一個保障吧 |
| 00:15:37,200 | 00:15:38,200 | 是吧 是吧 |
| 00:15:38,200 | 00:15:40,200 | 應該是吧 是 |
| 00:15:40,200 | 00:15:45,200 | 好 我相信今天你們董事長跟總經理 |
| 00:15:45,200 | 00:15:47,200 | 就是藉由出國就不在了 |
| 00:15:47,200 | 00:15:49,200 | 所以你也算可憐的帶打 |
| 00:15:50,200 | 00:15:54,200 | 那後續我希望你們把這些的報告 |
| 00:15:54,200 | 00:15:56,200 | 大概都交給我 |
| 00:15:56,200 | 00:15:58,200 | 第一個就是債權跟無奈人等等 |
| 00:15:58,200 | 00:16:00,200 | 以及你們其他債權不良的 |
| 00:16:00,200 | 00:16:02,200 | 催收的一個機制 |
| 00:16:02,200 | 00:16:04,200 | 那你後續這個案子會怎麼進行 |
| 00:16:04,200 | 00:16:06,200 | 這個書面報告 |
| 00:16:06,200 | 00:16:08,200 | 第二個我建議台唐 |
| 00:16:08,200 | 00:16:10,200 | 不管你是出遊 |
| 00:16:10,200 | 00:16:13,200 | 只要你是用到實用的部分 |
| 00:16:13,200 | 00:16:14,200 | 因為你們還有肉鬆 |
| 00:16:14,200 | 00:16:16,200 | 對不對 有糖 |
| 00:16:16,200 | 00:16:18,200 | 還有肉製品等等一堆 |
| 00:16:18,200 | 00:16:20,200 | 所以你們整個東西到底有沒有 |
| 00:16:20,200 | 00:16:23,200 | 確實從明日料到這裡頭的審驗 |
| 00:16:23,200 | 00:16:26,200 | 然後同時要確實上食安雲的 |
| 00:16:26,200 | 00:16:29,200 | 然後同時你要建立跟經濟部 |
| 00:16:29,200 | 00:16:32,200 | 跟衛福部的即時的通報系統 |
| 00:16:32,200 | 00:16:35,200 | 麻煩這個我不要苛責你 |
| 00:16:35,200 | 00:16:38,200 | 兩個月內給我這樣子的一個機制規劃報告 |
| 00:16:38,200 | 00:16:41,200 | 去防堵未來的這一件的事情好不好 |
| 00:16:41,200 | 00:16:43,200 | 是 謝謝委員 謝謝 |