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楊曜 @ 第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:07,000 | 謝謝主席 主席請一下市部長 |
| 00:00:07,000 | 00:00:09,000 | 好 請市部長 |
| 00:00:09,000 | 00:00:13,000 | 楊委員好 |
| 00:00:13,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 部長好 部長我其實很無奈喔 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:23,000 | 因為我實在不知道請誰出來回答我的質詢 |
| 00:00:23,000 | 00:00:30,000 | 因為我來立法院以後大概跟你共事了那麼久 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 我很清楚你不是一個會蓋牌吃案當門神的人 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:41,000 | 那今天這樣子的專題報告的題目 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:45,000 | 其實我讓你上來回答問題 |
| 00:00:45,000 | 00:00:47,000 | 我覺得對你很不禮貌 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:49,000 | 不會 很謝謝委員的肯定 |
| 00:00:49,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 不過我講實話的人 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:57,000 | 就是說不過不找你好像也不行 |
| 00:00:57,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 因為剛剛我的助理跟我講了說 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 盧學院市長已經認證了江志剛署長不是門神 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 所以這個就是今天的題目 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 我其實看到題目的時候 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 看到題目的時候我就有點想放棄這一次的質詢 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 因為對你們很不禮貌 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:27,000 | 不過我既然來了我們還是探討一些問題好不好 |
| 00:01:27,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 部長你很詳細的講一下 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 就是你認為台糖在發現了以後 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:43,000 | 在發現原料有問題了以後沒有通報的義務 |
| 00:01:43,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 你嘗試著簡單二要的講一下 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 大家對於台糖的期望 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 讓他做更多一點做法 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 多做一點我想這些大家都是期待的 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 這個我也認同 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 但是依法論法要處分的時候 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 我們還是要回到法律的授權 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 我第一次就講了 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 法律有規定義務才有責任 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 假如沒有的話就是我們叫做急功耗益 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:26,000 | 這個是額外的東西 |
| 00:02:26,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 我們現在是在講他有沒有在法律上 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 他應不應該有沒有負擔通報的責任 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 所以我們回到台糖的這一批貨 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 中聯的311油槽 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 他是脫膠原油 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 那麼我們法律上有訂出衛生安全標準的 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 指的是實用油脂 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 最終那個產品的2.0PPB |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 我們是訂這個 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 所以我們並沒有去訂脫膠原油 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 或者是黃豆他的食品安全衛生標準 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 沒有訂這個 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 所以當然就台糖而言 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 他拿的是脫膠原油 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 雖然他的驗收標準他無法通過 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:13,000 | 但是不等於我們現在所公布的 |
| 00:03:13,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 食品油脂他超標的這個是不相等 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 所以從法律義務上來講 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 他當然是沒有這個通報的義務 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 所以這個是我想是很清楚的 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 但是大家希望食安大家共同把關 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 人人有責 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 大家都來通報這個我們絕對是鼓勵的 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 對啦就是單純的期待 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 跟法律課宇的義務是兩件事 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 我們當然也希望不只台糖 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:46,000 | 任何公司甚至於一般的民眾 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 知道了以後就通報 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 只是說這個不應該當作責任 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 然後把它引爆成一個政治的議題 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 我覺得要我講我就是覺得 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 我就覺得食安法該修 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 我們趕快修 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 那討論這個案子討論太久了 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 應不應該在 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 我說真的就是說衛福部管的 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 就已經夠多了 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 食藥署管的也很多 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 從藥品到化妝品到柴米油鹽 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 可能柴沒有啦 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 醬醋茶都歸你們啦 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 肉製品也歸你們啦 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 有沒有那麼多的人力跟財力 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 可以去致應少部分人的期待 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 我為什麼說少部分人的期待 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 因為我自己的觀察可能澎湖比較偏遠 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 我說真的我在這段時間 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 在澎湖並沒有很多民眾 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 跟我反應到油脂的問題 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 因為我們很快就讓它下架了 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 我們在7月2號就發布 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 7月3號那個油品就下架 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 然後到7月9號還擴大 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 全面4到6月都下架 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 所以安全的用油是我們的責任 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 這個絕對沒有問題 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 這個就我講的嘛 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 現在的食安法並沒有 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 並沒有課與中央直接茶廠的義務 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 你們只有成立專案 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 現在目前對不對 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 茶廠的直接是在41條的規定 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 這是地方政府 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 必要的時候中央也可以來做 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 那必要也都是 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 所謂的必要坦白講 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 就是風暴產生以後才會有必要 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 要不然你們也不會 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 你們沒有那麼多的人力跟資源 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 茶廠在地方 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 茶廠的責任在地方 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:05:59,000 | 那有關中央的部分 |
| 00:05:59,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 就是第一時間 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 應該下架的也都下架完了 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 那我從第一次 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 這個專題你討論好幾次了 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 我從第一次就講 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 就是該修法就趕快修 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 那立法院覺得必須要課與 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 課與衛福部跟食藥署 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 很大的義務 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 茶廠義務 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 那也可以討論 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 那相對應的人力跟經費 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 大家必須要共同來支持 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 就只有這樣子 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 我一直覺得把一個問題 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 把民生問題 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 當作政治問題來炒作 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 其實我不大喜歡 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 我真的不大喜歡 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 我覺得我們浪費太多時間 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 在討論這個議題上面 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 而且可能跟真正的民意 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 有一點脫鉤 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 就是像部長剛剛回答的 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 民意的基層的聲音 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 可能在我們下架完成的時候 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 就結束了 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 那接下來我們行政跟立法部門 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 應該做的就是好好的坐下來 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 趕快修法 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 這個防止下一次不幸事件的產生 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 這個才是更重要的 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 那我剛剛聽沈柏楊委員在問 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 我還是要 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 我簡單問一個修法的問題 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 就是通報的責任的對象 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 我們在修法的時候 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 院板已經提出了嗎 |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 有沒有擴大賦予哪一些人 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 那個通報的責任 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 除了現有的食品業者之外 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 我們擴大到檢驗單位 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 檢驗單位我第一次質詢就講了 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 第三個就是HACCP的認證單位 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 他也要通報 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 對 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 就是 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:23,000 | 二級品管的也要通報 |
| 00:08:23,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 我們一級品管是他的自驗 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 就廠商的自驗 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:31,000 | 所以他自設的實驗室以後也要通報 |
| 00:08:31,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 不只是第二級品管的外部實驗室 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 那二級品管有外部的認證單位 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 去查核HACCP的 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 他發現異常也要通報 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 他檢驗也要通報 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 所以我們把通報的對象都擴大 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 就是通報的程序要怎麼簡化精準 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 要不然應該是只要有檢驗了 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 其實通報一下 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 現在的進展處理其實也不難 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 那有通報就可以 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 我們可以更早預警 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 更早預警 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 對 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 好啦 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:11,000 | 還是要跟兩位致歉 |
| 00:09:11,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 因為我覺得今天確實是不應該請你們上台的 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 謝謝委員的指教 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 在未來修法的時候請您多多指導 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 好啊 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 大家一起努力 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 我想食安大家都很重視 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:31,000 | 並不代表大家對政治議題很重視 |
| 00:09:31,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 這是兩回事 |
| 00:09:33,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 我剛剛講的就是 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 把食安問題當成政治問題 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 這個本身就是一種錯誤 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 好謝謝部長謝謝主席 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 謝謝謝謝委員 |