iVOD / 170849
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涂權吉 @ 第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:06,500 | 好謝謝主席那請石部長跟我們江署長 |
| 00:00:06,500 | 00:00:08,000 | 請石部長 江署長 |
| 00:00:08,000 | 00:00:11,500 | 好 土委員好 |
| 00:00:11,500 | 00:00:16,500 | 好 部長 那因為這幾天我們地檢署查到 |
| 00:00:16,500 | 00:00:20,000 | 原來台糖藻在今年五月份喔 |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:22,500 | 就採樣驗出 中年出遊 |
| 00:00:22,500 | 00:00:26,000 | 含有本篇比一級致癌物 超標七倍 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:29,500 | 那我相信今天大部分都是引入這個問題在討論 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:31,500 | 然後請問一下部長喔 |
| 00:00:31,500 | 00:00:37,000 | 那經濟部他現在跳出來護航說 |
| 00:00:37,000 | 00:00:41,000 | 台電買的是出遊還沒有經驗過 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:44,500 | 所以不是產品沒有通報的義務 |
| 00:00:44,500 | 00:00:47,500 | 那部長認同這個說法嗎 |
| 00:00:47,500 | 00:00:52,000 | 當然我們對於這個食安我們希望全民監督啦 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:55,500 | 所以來鼓勵通報 這個都是我們樂見的 |
| 00:00:55,500 | 00:00:58,500 | 不過呢如果回到這個裁罰的時候 |
| 00:00:58,500 | 00:01:01,500 | 那麼是不是強制通報的義務通報人 |
| 00:01:01,500 | 00:01:03,500 | 那我們就得回到法條 |
| 00:01:03,500 | 00:01:08,500 | 那麼我們所訂的這個本篇比2.0PPB |
| 00:01:08,500 | 00:01:11,500 | 是針對實用油脂所訂出來 |
| 00:01:11,500 | 00:01:17,000 | 不是對原料也不是對這個脫膠原油去訂標準 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:20,500 | 所以如果依法論法要裁罰的時候 |
| 00:01:20,500 | 00:01:22,500 | 那當然這個台糖呢 |
| 00:01:22,500 | 00:01:27,000 | 他所拿到的或者是他驗出的是脫膠原油 |
| 00:01:27,000 | 00:01:30,500 | 並沒有現在的這個安全標準的規定 |
| 00:01:30,500 | 00:01:33,000 | 所以他當然依法論法來講 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:36,500 | 那當然他是沒有這個強制通報的義務 |
| 00:01:36,500 | 00:01:39,500 | 所以你認為說他不是產品 |
| 00:01:39,500 | 00:01:43,000 | 他目前只是原料嘛 對不對 |
| 00:01:43,000 | 00:01:45,500 | 就是他是中間啦 |
| 00:01:45,500 | 00:01:49,000 | 他從黃豆進來到做成實用油品之間 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 中間的中間產品 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:53,500 | 他已經黃豆煉出來的出油了嘛 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:59,500 | 然後他還要經過脫酸脫色脫臭才會變成實用油脂 |
| 00:01:59,500 | 00:02:02,500 | 所以最終的產品還沒有做完 |
| 00:02:02,500 | 00:02:04,000 | 這個半成品啦 對 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:05,500 | 所以半成品就是原料嘛 |
| 00:02:05,500 | 00:02:07,500 | 準備要去做別的東西嘛 |
| 00:02:07,500 | 00:02:12,500 | 那所以所以所以所以聽剛剛部長講 |
| 00:02:12,500 | 00:02:14,500 | 所以部長那時候也有講喔 |
| 00:02:14,500 | 00:02:18,000 | 外界要求開罰是邏輯死亡 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:21,500 | 所以部長也認為嚴格講起來 |
| 00:02:21,500 | 00:02:23,000 | 如果以法條來講 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:25,500 | 台糖是沒有責任缺失 |
| 00:02:25,500 | 00:02:27,000 | 所以不需要開罰嘛 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 你剛剛講的意思就是這樣 對不對 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 他並沒有違反這個食安法第七條的規定 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:36,500 | 所以部長認為是沒有責任缺失不需要開罰 |
| 00:02:36,500 | 00:02:39,000 | 那我們直接看一下喔 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:42,500 | 我們食藥署在2025年10月份 |
| 00:02:42,500 | 00:02:47,000 | 我們有修訂應訂定食品安全監測計畫 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:49,500 | 與辦理檢驗之食品業者 |
| 00:02:49,500 | 00:02:53,500 | 最低檢驗週期及其他相關事項 |
| 00:02:53,500 | 00:02:57,000 | 在修正公告問答集裡面喔 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:58,500 | 我們有去看了一下 |
| 00:02:58,500 | 00:03:00,500 | 在應辦理檢驗之食品業者 |
| 00:03:00,500 | 00:03:04,500 | 最低檢驗週期及其他相關事項 |
| 00:03:04,500 | 00:03:06,000 | 裡面有強制檢驗 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:08,500 | 它是共通性問題裡面 |
| 00:03:08,500 | 00:03:13,500 | 我們把裡面問答集的Q2跟Q8連起來看喔 |
| 00:03:13,500 | 00:03:16,500 | 我們看一下Q2它明定 |
| 00:03:16,500 | 00:03:20,500 | 資本額3000萬以上的實用油脂製造工廠 |
| 00:03:20,500 | 00:03:24,500 | 針對原油出製原油原料 |
| 00:03:24,500 | 00:03:31,500 | 針對原料出製原油直接供實用之出炸原油及精製油等階段 |
| 00:03:31,500 | 00:03:34,500 | 每半年必須強制檢驗 |
| 00:03:34,500 | 00:03:38,500 | 這個沒問題嘛這都你們自己回覆的嘛 |
| 00:03:38,500 | 00:03:40,500 | 那在Q8也明定 |
| 00:03:40,500 | 00:03:45,000 | 如果強制檢驗報告的檢驗結果不符規定 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 業者應採取有效改善措施 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 作成紀錄 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 應依食安法第七條第五項規定 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 於發現產品有危害衛生安全之餘時 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 應通報主管機關 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 所以應該要通報主管機關嘛 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 有發生危害衛生安全之餘時嘛 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 所以因為你們這部分你們一直說因為它是產品 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 產品才要通知 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 那如果原料在這邊是沒有包含 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 所以是產品才要通知 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 但是不一樣 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 因為我們這個有訂安全標準 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 訂的安全標準是針對產品訂的安全標準 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 那它就只有通報就是超出我們訂的安全標準的時候 |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 對因為你們前面我有聽啦 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 你們一直針對就是說產品產品產品嘛 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 你們是針對產品在圍繞 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 可是後來我們又查了一下 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 今天很多委員有提到 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 2024年3月11號 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 我們食藥署自己發佈的新聞稿 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 那我再說一遍今天很多委員都有提啦 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 說食品業者在發現原料或產品 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 有危害衛生安全之餘時 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 要通報主管機關 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 所以食藥署在這一部分 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 不是只有產品喔 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 針對原料有危害衛生安全之餘時 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 要通報主管機關 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 這一部分我相信今天很多的委員都提到 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:17,000 | 不是產品也包含原料 |
| 00:05:17,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 那當然還有另外一個喔 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 在三天以後 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 在2024年3月14號 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 行政院食安辦公室自己也說 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 食品業者要加強自主管理 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 確認原料安全性 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 確認原料安全性 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 同時如果有異常 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 就應主動通報機關 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 所以這個是食藥署跟食安辦公室 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 我們自己對外發的新聞稿 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 這一部分沒有問題嘛 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 所以針對所以不是產品嘛 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 原料的部分你們也都認同 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 就是應該要通報主管機關 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 那為什麼到台糖這件事情 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 就轉彎原料不用通報 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 還是跟委員說明 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 我們當時候擴大要求原料要通報 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 是因為有一些不得添加的東西出現 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:15,000 | 那不得添加是沒有標準的 |
| 00:06:15,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 是零檢出的 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 所以這個都要求通報 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 這個是為了確保從上游到下游 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 所有的食品加工鏈的安全 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 這個是我相信這個委員也是認同的 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 但是我們今天談的呢 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 這個是有訂有安全標準的 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 而我們訂的安全標準訂的是實用油脂 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 不是在中間的產品或原料的安全標準 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 所以它當然依法而言 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 它是不需要通報 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:49,000 | 但是如果這個是不得添加的 |
| 00:06:49,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 不論你在原料不論你在產品 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 因為它會存在 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 這個是不得是零檢出的 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 所以這個一定要通報 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 所以部長我請問一下 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 黃豆它榨出這個出油 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 含有本偏比一級致癌物是正常的嗎 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 你們聽起來好像反正有含也沒關係 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 因為黃豆本身可能就會帶有本偏比 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 所以它做出來之後 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 它需要再經過後面的脫酸脫色脫臭去把它下降 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 所以這個是後面為什麼要有這些製程 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 要去監測它的道理在這裡 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 那其他的除了這一批黃豆 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 會有出油會有本偏比一級致癌物 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 那其他的黃豆它做成出油也會有本偏比嗎 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 會本偏比是高低的問題 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 有的是還是會有零點幾一點幾 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:49,000 | 所以它都是在安全標準之內 |
| 00:07:49,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 所以才是說它要透過製程的調整 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 它存在它會存在 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 因為在黃豆有機物裡面就會存在 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 所以它需要經過製程去把它下降 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 到我們合格的安全標準以下 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 所以台糖驗到本偏比超過七倍之多 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 難道它覺得這是正常的嗎 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 它認為超出它的驗收標準 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 它就不予營收 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 這個是它自己訂的標準 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 所以其實前面最早你們講產品 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 其實我們今天為什麼會講 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 後來一直收集之後 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 結果我們發現 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 它原料你們自己當初也發新聞稿 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 在很多你們的問答集裡面 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 也說原料只要有超過就要通報 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 可是為什麼今天真的不能理解 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 這個前面講產品 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 後來你們公布說原料 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 那原料也含有超標本偏比一級致癌物 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 而且是超過七倍之多 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 那這麼嚴重 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 台糖就當做沒事一樣就退回去 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 今天如果五月多早發現 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 就不會有這麼多的問題發生 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 而且我們認為今天這麼多的問題 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 是不是我們衛福部還有食藥署這一部分 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 針對這麼多的問題都沒有好好的監督 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 我們制定了相關的規定 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 要求地方去查核 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 所以真正在監督跟查場以及抽驗的 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 這個是地方的權責 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 那當然我們也會協助地方一起去辦 |
| 00:09:33,000 | 00:09:37,000 | 所以我們也有固定的一些專案的 |
| 00:09:37,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 這個稽查的啟動 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 所以這些都是中央跟地方 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 大家一起合作 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:45,000 | 來確保這個食藥安全的 |
| 00:09:45,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 其實今天講這麼多 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 今天這個案子最重要的就是中聯黑心廠商 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 他沒有及時通報還繼續製造 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:58,000 | 這個才是應該最糟糕的地方 |
| 00:09:58,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 我覺得我們不可理解 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 其實衛福部還有食藥署 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 我們這個是主管機關 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:09,000 | 今天我不知道為什麼感覺一直都在為台糖在說話 |
| 00:10:09,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 一直在護航 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 一直在把他的事情讓他去合理化 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 你看我們這些針對我們今天看到的 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 我們這些問答機裡面 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 原料出自原有直接供食用支出債的原由 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:29,000 | 他每半年就要做一次的強制性檢驗 |
| 00:10:29,000 | 00:10:31,000 | 那你為什麼要做強制性檢驗 |
| 00:10:31,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 結果你強制性檢驗去做了 |
| 00:10:34,000 | 00:10:37,000 | 結果查到超標 |
| 00:10:37,000 | 00:10:40,000 | 本篇比超標七倍之多 |
| 00:10:40,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 居然不用通報 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 那你不用通報你做強制性檢驗幹嘛 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:48,000 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:10:48,000 | 00:10:52,000 | 我們今天用比較高的標準來要求台糖 |
| 00:10:52,000 | 00:10:54,000 | 我們都尊重委員的看法 |
| 00:10:54,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 但是我還是回到依法論法而言 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:11:00,000 | 我們訂的本篇比的標準指的是食用油脂 |
| 00:11:00,000 | 00:11:02,000 | 不是脫膠原油 |
| 00:11:02,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 也不是原來其他的原料 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:08,000 | 所以這個要我們把它弄清楚就好 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:13,000 | 所以我相信今天這麼多委員講那麼多 |
| 00:11:13,000 | 00:11:17,000 | 其實這裡面立法的用意 |
| 00:11:17,000 | 00:11:21,000 | 針對各類別被納入做強制檢驗的食品 |
| 00:11:21,000 | 00:11:24,000 | 包含原料產品 |
| 00:11:24,000 | 00:11:27,000 | 都應該要符合強制檢驗的週期標準 |
| 00:11:27,000 | 00:11:32,000 | 不然為什麼食藥署要援引通報義務的法規 |
| 00:11:32,000 | 00:11:36,000 | 你們都說原料有問題就要通報 |
| 00:11:36,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 可是為什麼我們一直百思不得其解 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:42,000 | 碰到台糖你們就有另外一個說法 |
| 00:11:42,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 好像他這個原料有問題不用通報 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 這合理化在哪裡 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 其實大家對你們今天的邏輯真的是聽不懂 |
| 00:11:54,000 | 00:11:57,000 | 而且經濟部是我們的國營事業 |
| 00:11:57,000 | 00:12:02,000 | 他也是公告應辦理檢驗的食品業者 |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:05,000 | 他有法定的強制檢驗義務 |
| 00:12:05,000 | 00:12:07,000 | 而且他在5月就知情 |
| 00:12:07,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 那依照我們現行的食安法 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 還有他問答級的規定 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 上面都寫得很清楚 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:17,000 | 還有包括我們剛剛講的食藥署 |
| 00:12:17,000 | 00:12:21,000 | 還有我們食安辦公室的對外新聞稿 |
| 00:12:21,000 | 00:12:23,000 | 台電就是要通報啊 |
| 00:12:23,000 | 00:12:26,000 | 為什麼就講了一堆就是不用通報 |
| 00:12:27,000 | 00:12:28,000 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:12:28,000 | 00:12:30,000 | 我們在HACCP裡面要求 |
| 00:12:30,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 在不同的節點去檢驗 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:34,000 | 這個是在做品質的控管 |
| 00:12:34,000 | 00:12:37,000 | 那麼讓這個業者在製造的過程當中 |
| 00:12:37,000 | 00:12:41,000 | 可以提早的去預警風險的存在 |
| 00:12:41,000 | 00:12:43,000 | 然後去做一些矯正調整的措施 |
| 00:12:43,000 | 00:12:46,000 | 來確保最後這個食品的安全 |
| 00:12:46,000 | 00:12:49,000 | 我想這個是整個原意是這樣 |
| 00:12:49,000 | 00:12:52,000 | 而至於要求的強制性通報 |
| 00:12:52,000 | 00:12:55,000 | 是針對我們定有這個安全標準 |
| 00:12:55,000 | 00:12:58,000 | 超標的時候你就要強制性通報了 |
| 00:12:58,000 | 00:13:01,000 | 所以這個權利義務是不一樣的 |
| 00:13:01,000 | 00:13:03,000 | 所以我們剛剛一直有講 |
| 00:13:03,000 | 00:13:07,000 | 你看他們這些都是屬於3000萬以上的廠 |
| 00:13:07,000 | 00:13:10,000 | 那本來就要強制檢驗 |
| 00:13:10,000 | 00:13:13,000 | 強制檢驗驗到有不符規定超標的 |
| 00:13:13,000 | 00:13:15,000 | 就有通報義務 |
| 00:13:15,000 | 00:13:19,000 | 那南僑也因為沒有通報被開罰 |
| 00:13:19,000 | 00:13:22,000 | 那台糖也是有強制檢驗 |
| 00:13:22,000 | 00:13:25,000 | 所以他有強制檢驗本來就有通報義務 |
| 00:13:25,000 | 00:13:26,000 | 我真的不了解 |
| 00:13:26,000 | 00:13:29,000 | 他要強制檢驗又不用通報的義務 |
| 00:13:29,000 | 00:13:32,000 | 然後南僑因為這樣子被罰 |
| 00:13:32,000 | 00:13:34,000 | 結果台糖你講了一大堆 |
| 00:13:34,000 | 00:13:37,000 | 好像台糖也要強制檢驗 |
| 00:13:37,000 | 00:13:39,000 | 可是他就沒通報 |
| 00:13:39,000 | 00:13:41,000 | 就有另外一番說法 |
| 00:13:41,000 | 00:13:44,000 | 台糖那個部分是他們自行 |
| 00:13:44,000 | 00:13:47,000 | 他們自行在驗收的時候要求的檢驗 |
| 00:13:47,000 | 00:13:50,000 | 不是我們所謂的強制檢驗 |
| 00:13:50,000 | 00:13:52,000 | 那今天我們就講 |
| 00:13:52,000 | 00:13:55,000 | 他這個本來他今天收到 |
| 00:13:55,000 | 00:13:57,000 | 他就有檢驗的義務 |
| 00:13:57,000 | 00:13:59,000 | 那他去檢驗 |
| 00:13:59,000 | 00:14:02,000 | 檢驗到超標這麼多 |
| 00:14:02,000 | 00:14:04,000 | 都不用通報 |
| 00:14:04,000 | 00:14:06,000 | 一個國營事業 |
| 00:14:06,000 | 00:14:10,000 | 一個對於我們影響國人食安這麼嚴重的問題 |
| 00:14:10,000 | 00:14:12,000 | 結果不用通報 |
| 00:14:12,000 | 00:14:14,000 | 現在爆發這麼多問題 |
| 00:14:14,000 | 00:14:16,000 | 還把檢驗出來 |
| 00:14:16,000 | 00:14:18,000 | 原來他早就檢驗出來 |
| 00:14:18,000 | 00:14:19,000 | 早就知道 |
| 00:14:19,000 | 00:14:20,000 | 結果不用通報 |
| 00:14:20,000 | 00:14:24,000 | 我們衛福部一直要讓他合理化 |
| 00:14:24,000 | 00:14:28,000 | 然後而且經濟部第一時間跳出來 |
| 00:14:28,000 | 00:14:31,000 | 實案法也不是經濟部在管的 |
| 00:14:31,000 | 00:14:33,000 | 結果經濟部來解釋實案法 |
| 00:14:33,000 | 00:14:35,000 | 結果我們衛福部 |
| 00:14:35,000 | 00:14:38,000 | 居然後來身為主管機關 |
| 00:14:38,000 | 00:14:40,000 | 還配合他們 |
| 00:14:40,000 | 00:14:42,000 | 我們都依法行政 |
| 00:14:42,000 | 00:14:43,000 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:14:43,000 | 00:14:45,000 | 這個中聯的會有高 |
| 00:14:45,000 | 00:14:48,000 | 我們在調查報告也寫得很清楚 |
| 00:14:48,000 | 00:14:49,000 | 他的品質 |
| 00:14:49,000 | 00:14:51,000 | 原料的品質的控管 |
| 00:14:51,000 | 00:14:54,000 | 跟後端有沒有具以調整參數 |
| 00:14:54,000 | 00:14:56,000 | 強化這個製程的監控 |
| 00:14:56,000 | 00:14:58,000 | 甚至是檢驗的頻率 |
| 00:14:58,000 | 00:15:01,000 | 這個都是我們在調查報告裡面 |
| 00:15:01,000 | 00:15:03,000 | 已經提出來要求他去改善 |
| 00:15:03,000 | 00:15:06,000 | 那也作為其他業者的一個參考 |
| 00:15:06,000 | 00:15:09,000 | 所以我想這個是同時並進 |
| 00:15:09,000 | 00:15:12,000 | 那麼互相之間是沒有什麼相悖 |
| 00:15:12,000 | 00:15:17,000 | 那一個是我們訂的最終產品的 |
| 00:15:17,000 | 00:15:20,000 | 使用油脂的安全標準 |
| 00:15:20,000 | 00:15:21,000 | 這個是一回事 |
| 00:15:21,000 | 00:15:23,000 | 要求業者在製程當中 |
| 00:15:23,000 | 00:15:26,000 | 需要去強化這個管理的措施 |
| 00:15:26,000 | 00:15:30,000 | 從源頭製程到監控通報 |
| 00:15:30,000 | 00:15:32,000 | 那這個又是另外一個 |
| 00:15:32,000 | 00:15:34,000 | 也同樣重要要去要求 |
| 00:15:34,000 | 00:15:36,000 | 這個是在我們調查報告裡面 |
| 00:15:36,000 | 00:15:38,000 | 都已經提出來了 |
| 00:15:38,000 | 00:15:41,000 | 部長其實今天大家講那麼多 |
| 00:15:41,000 | 00:15:44,000 | 其實我相信也很多國人 |
| 00:15:44,000 | 00:15:46,000 | 一直都有在看我們的質詢 |
| 00:15:46,000 | 00:15:48,000 | 其實部長你們針對你們 |
| 00:15:48,000 | 00:15:50,000 | 這些質詢的說法 |
| 00:15:50,000 | 00:15:52,000 | 我相信民眾應該心中 |
| 00:15:52,000 | 00:15:54,000 | 有一把尺 |
| 00:15:54,000 | 00:15:56,000 | 那我們認為食安法 |
| 00:15:56,000 | 00:15:58,000 | 本來就是應該要高標準 |
| 00:15:58,000 | 00:16:00,000 | 去審核去檢視 |
| 00:16:00,000 | 00:16:03,000 | 因為他這個關心我們國人的健康 |
| 00:16:03,000 | 00:16:06,000 | 那我們衛福部食藥署 |
| 00:16:06,000 | 00:16:08,000 | 是保障我們國人健康 |
| 00:16:08,000 | 00:16:10,000 | 那對於食安這個問題 |
| 00:16:10,000 | 00:16:12,000 | 國人是非常非常的注重 |
| 00:16:12,000 | 00:16:14,000 | 我們每天日常生活 |
| 00:16:14,000 | 00:16:17,000 | 生活起居都要接觸到 |
| 00:16:17,000 | 00:16:19,000 | 所以食安法的核心 |
| 00:16:19,000 | 00:16:21,000 | 是保障國人的健康 |
| 00:16:21,000 | 00:16:25,000 | 我們不是今天要幫這些業者 |
| 00:16:25,000 | 00:16:27,000 | 去設防火牆 |
| 00:16:27,000 | 00:16:29,000 | 希望部長也站在國人食安 |
| 00:16:29,000 | 00:16:31,000 | 跟健康的角度 |
| 00:16:31,000 | 00:16:33,000 | 我們來重新審視 |
| 00:16:33,000 | 00:16:35,000 | 這個通報的法律義務 |
| 00:16:35,000 | 00:16:37,000 | 跟這個罰鍰 |
| 00:16:37,000 | 00:16:39,000 | 我覺得食安的問題 |
| 00:16:39,000 | 00:16:41,000 | 一定要高規格標準 |
| 00:16:41,000 | 00:16:43,000 | 來去審視 |
| 00:16:43,000 | 00:16:46,000 | 因為這個關係到我們全國人民的健康 |
| 00:16:46,000 | 00:16:49,000 | 這非常認同委員的這一番話 |
| 00:16:49,000 | 00:16:51,000 | 這個食安是沒有這個 |
| 00:16:51,000 | 00:16:53,000 | 博虎的空間 |
| 00:16:53,000 | 00:16:55,000 | 我們一定會持續的 |
| 00:16:55,000 | 00:16:57,000 | 為這個食安來把關 |
| 00:16:57,000 | 00:16:59,000 | 對啊 而且大家聽到台糖 |
| 00:16:59,000 | 00:17:01,000 | 這個我們國家的國營事業 |
| 00:17:01,000 | 00:17:03,000 | 居然知道這個訊息 |
| 00:17:03,000 | 00:17:05,000 | 居然沒有選擇通報 |
| 00:17:05,000 | 00:17:07,000 | 其實這對國人來講 |
| 00:17:07,000 | 00:17:09,000 | 應該是沒有辦法接受的 |
| 00:17:09,000 | 00:17:11,000 | 好 謝謝 謝謝委員 |