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羅明才 @ 第11屆第5會期財政委員會第24次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:08,000 | 主席二人出聯席官員 |
| 00:00:08,000 | 00:00:15,000 | 最後請陳登部 莊部長 還有公務署彭署長 |
| 00:00:15,000 | 00:00:18,000 | 請 莊部長 彭署長 |
| 00:00:18,000 | 00:00:22,000 | 經濟部 周副署長 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 莊部長你好 時間過得很快 又快到中午了 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:33,000 | 我記得以前我們大概幾十年的時間 |
| 00:00:33,000 | 00:00:37,000 | 在這邊中午的時間就 雖然開會 |
| 00:00:37,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 但也算開開心心的吃午餐 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 有胡鬚粽便當 有台鐵的便當 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 還有青島最著名的雞腿便當 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 你喜歡吃哪一樣 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:57,000 | 我很久沒有在這邊吃便當了 |
| 00:00:57,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 對 你有沒有覺得我現在也臉色都青純純 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:05,000 | 我要出去 在立法院開會也一樣 |
| 00:01:05,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 以前還有多樣性的選擇 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 現在只有一種選擇 就是燙青菜 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 上面用醬油鍋 蒜蓉醬油 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 然後玉米都是蒸的 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 只要碰到毒油的陰影 什麼都不敢吃 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 部長 這個油的事情 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 到現在已經水落石出 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:37,000 | 國人可以安心的吃飯嗎 |
| 00:01:37,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 關務署 過去在非洲住恩的時候 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 在這時候扮演了一個境外 鎮國神山的角色 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 每一隻豬 死豬 什麼豬進來 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 通通在境外攔截 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:02:02,000 | 所以台灣這幾年好像沒有非洲住恩了吧 |
| 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 我們對於豬肉非常的嚴格的查緝 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 關務署非常的嚴格 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:11,000 | 去年曾經在台中有過 |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 也在防疫上做了相當的徹底 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 有一小段 整體的話 發生這樣的事情 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 整體還是不錯 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 現在的討論 那油呢 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 為什麼油在關務署沒有辦法前面進來的時候 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 全面就把它擋住 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 對油這個部分 我想衛福部已經說得很清楚 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 第一個就是說 廠商在進口的時候 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 他後續的產製的過程 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 自己調整了相關的一個規律 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 然後後面產製的過程當中 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 又沒有做好相關的一些應該要做的事情 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 那這個部分說清楚 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 那海關這個部分對於進口的一些 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 譬如說黃豆 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 他們都必須要經過相關的一個檢驗以後 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 也就是由食藥署跟防檢局檢驗以後 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 海關才會放行的 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 所以這有不同的職長 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 海關有海關的職長 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 對 所以 檢疫機關有檢疫機關的職長 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 所以海關也是有一個 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 他的責任在那個地方 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 就工作分配上 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 那我請問一下彭署長 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 那 截至目前為止 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 國內的油到底有沒有毒啊 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 能不能吃 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 我都有在吃 報告委 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 你都有在吃 我吃到不敢吃了 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 有人說已經四個月了 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 甚至還有提到說是 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 其實四年前就發生有這個毒油的事情 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 通通蓋牌 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 那署長你身為第一線的從業人員 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 當然我知道責任不在你們 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 最主要是另外兩個其他的單位 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 你不會想到 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 對於自己安全健康 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 會有很大的威脅 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 你會不會 你們家有沒有家人 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 有 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 有 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 你家裡有家裡有沒有小孩 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 有 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 你不會在每天在外食 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 吃便當的時候想到說 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 那家裡的小孩如果每天都吃這個毒食毒油 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 會影響到他們一輩子的健康 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 是 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 你不會怕嗎 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 報告委員 那政府機關對於食品安全 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 一定會落實去執行 嚴格的執行 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 這是不會妥協的事情 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 是 你講得很漂亮 |
| 00:04:31,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 可是你能保證我們現在外面每一頓吃午餐外食足 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 可以吃的都沒問題嗎 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 就是今天我在台灣吃這些美食 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 或到路邊攤去吃 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 你可以保證我不會吃到毒油嗎 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 今天 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 今天 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 對 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 報告委員 要我保證 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 不好意思 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 那好 你不能保證 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 可是因為大家都覺得你是海關 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 你第一線你如果都攔截下來 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 就不會有毒油流進來 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 跟委員報告 這一次毒油事件應該 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 不是發生在進口端的部分 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 據衛福部他們的調查報告應該是在製程的部分 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 製程 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 從第一天開始就是在隨便甩鍋給巴西 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 巴西的黃豆 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 其他也不是 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 現在有此一說是製程出了問題 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:43,000 | 因為國內的油進來就是兩中 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 一個大統一 佔百分之多少 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 國內的油 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 那個金部知道 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 副市長 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 跟委員報告 50% |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 另外一個 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 中聯35% |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:05:59,000 | 35% |
| 00:05:59,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 那你應該進來的源頭就把它管制好 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 結果現在他剛講說是製程 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 兩個製程不一樣 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:11,000 | 跟委員報告 這個當然從美國跟巴西的大豆來源不同 |
| 00:06:11,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 它的品質也不同 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 雖然不同但是可以透過製程的方式來去做調整 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 那針對昨天衛福部食藥署的報告 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 針對不管是豆子的來源也好 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 或者是製程的部分 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 其實都有一些它相關的問題存在 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 那我們就從製程來說好了 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 大統一它用的是法國的機器 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 所以它是用真空抽取的 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 是安全的 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 現在問題就是出在中聯的這個部分 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 它佔了市場35% |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:49,000 | 但是你知道 |
| 00:06:49,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 以前我們都講說 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 四斤黃豆換一斤油 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 結果它現在因為公益的投機取巧 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 變成三斤的黃豆就要榨出一斤的油 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 問題出在哪裡 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 大豆其實是會酸的 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 那酸它為了要省成本 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 就加入了化學的鹼性酸鹼中和 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 所以那個漏斗下來就是 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 中和了以後可能5%還是10%的油 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 它就把它漏掉 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 可是為什麼三斤的黃豆變一斤的油 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 就是很簡單嘛 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 鹼多加一點鹼性 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 這些化學品多加了一點 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 所以變成加了以後 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 改變你一稍微有狀況 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:51,000 | 那個毒油的本田皮就跑出來了 |
| 00:07:51,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 你可能比較清楚是不是這樣子 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 這個部分並沒有那麼清楚 |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 因為整個調查報告是由衛福部這邊來負責 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 那檢調已經進入了 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 所以我們經濟部這邊是沒有進到場內去做調查 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 好啦我覺得你們 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 大家速度要快一點 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 到現在時不安心 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 現在很多外國的朋友 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 以前都台灣是美食美食王國 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 現在進來也不敢吃啦 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 你看那個黃仁勳最近都沒有去夜市啦 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 揣咧丹 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 吃這麼多豬排也不能吃 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 害我現在如果再這一萬點 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 每一萬點我們再吃雞排 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 我現在想的都想要吐出來 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 真的啦這個食品安全的問題 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:45,000 | 人人有責 |
| 00:08:45,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 經濟部也想想辦法 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 你們幫幫忙嘛 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 你們要有一些製造的過程 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:55,000 | 去了解要看看是怎麼樣 |
| 00:08:55,000 | 00:08:57,000 | 另外再請一下莊部長 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:00,000 | 那也請 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 我在這個事是跟莊部長沒有直接的關係 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 但我覺得在海關的部分 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 能做 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 有沒有辦法來 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 來源的部分 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 最近要多加強管理 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 海關他有他的職長 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 當然他也會根據各個貨品的主管機關的要求 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 然後由各主管機關該查驗的查驗該檢疫的檢疫 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:25,000 | 不合規定的海關就不會放行 |
| 00:09:25,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 上次說發芽的馬鈴薯要一顆一顆檢查 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 現在真的有這樣檢查嗎 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 這個部分應該是屬於農業部這邊在做 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 農業部這邊在做處理嘛 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 是在農業部那邊做處理 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 農業部都跟海關沒關係 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 進來不都是海關第一關 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 主長各有分工 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 好來你們能提供一些多年的寶貴經驗 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 站在國民的立場 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 你們一定要 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 酸井羅斯 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 然後多多給予建言好不好 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 是的謝謝委員指教 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 另外一個就是 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:09,000 | 看到最近的股市暴起暴落 |
| 00:10:09,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 那最近一直跌 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 現在好像跌破四萬點 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 部長為什麼股市會跌跌不休 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 因為美股還有日韓股也都下跌 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 然後對有一些不確定的預期 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:29,000 | 所以會有下跌的情況 |
| 00:10:29,000 | 00:10:33,000 | 我覺得台灣的股市也好韓國的股市也好 |
| 00:10:33,000 | 00:10:36,000 | 街上大概都是變成割韭菜 |
| 00:10:36,000 | 00:10:39,000 | 因為我大概十幾天前 |
| 00:10:39,000 | 00:10:43,000 | 就美國的花雅街的那個消息 |
| 00:10:43,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 他們就偷偷有個訊息說 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 全部要賣股票 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:50,000 | 而且他們這個一致性的 |
| 00:10:50,000 | 00:10:52,000 | 你發現一下 |
| 00:10:52,000 | 00:10:55,000 | 他這個所謂股市的上漲下跌 |
| 00:10:55,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 這一次的歷史經驗 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:11:00,000 | 真正發動炒股的是美國 |
| 00:11:00,000 | 00:11:03,000 | 美國的聲音你知道嗎 |
| 00:11:03,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 我自己要跟你說 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 謝謝 |