iVOD / 170749
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王世堅 @ 第11屆第5會期財政委員會第24次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:13,000 | 謝謝主席 我請莊部長 |
| 00:00:13,000 | 00:00:15,000 | 請莊部長 |
| 00:00:21,000 | 00:00:22,000 | 委員好 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 莊部長 辛苦了 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:27,000 | 不過我看了這份報告後 |
| 00:00:27,000 | 00:00:30,000 | 我才頓然發現說 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:32,000 | 我們財政部 |
| 00:00:35,000 | 00:00:41,000 | 居然自認為是經濟部的小弟就對了 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:43,000 | 今天這麼重大的 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 關於關稅的這個大家的討論 |
| 00:00:49,000 | 00:00:55,000 | 經濟部只派了一位產業發展署副署長來 |
| 00:00:55,000 | 00:00:57,000 | 這個不打緊喔 |
| 00:00:57,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 部長 這完全不對稱 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 你是部長 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 他派個副署長來不打緊 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 你看在這一份報告 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 你們的這一份財政部 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:11,000 | 以你具名 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 部長具名的報告裡面 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 你們全部在幫經濟部講話 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 曾幾何時 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 何時 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 財政部在關稅這一部分的討論 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 竟然當經濟部的稅喊就對了 |
| 00:01:31,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 叫他話來話去 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:37,000 | 我現在跟你正式提案的 |
| 00:01:37,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 包括我 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 我們今天總共 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 有七位委員先前 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 這兩年多來針對關稅的提案 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 我的最徹底 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 我認為進口車關稅就是降到零 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 所以你們第一筆就完全針對我 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 你們這個正式的財政部的報告裡面 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 就這三頁 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 就這三頁的報告裡面 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 等於有一整頁都通通在談我的這個事情 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 說我降到零這個嚴重性 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 好 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 我先從 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 經濟部你們的老大哥 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 他講的 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 他說 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:26,000 | 汽車關稅如果 |
| 00:02:26,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 縱降 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 甚至像我說的降到零 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 他說會讓 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 我們國產車的製造者 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 這些廠商會撤離 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 他說影響啊 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 講啊 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 先前 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 第一次他來報告的時候 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 他說影響十幾萬人 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 我糾正他以後 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 他今天把這個數字降了 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 他降到我講的實際數字 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 他說八萬多人 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 但是 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 部長 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 我上次就講了啊 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 其實影響到的 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 我們國內的汽車製造業者 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 你要分兩大部分 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 一個部分是整車的業者 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 那個部分才一萬一千人 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 最重要的是我們的零組件 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:23,000 | 零組件將近八萬多人的從業人員裡面 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 人家我們的零組件超強的 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 我們在出口光是到美國的就好 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 我們出口到美國的產品裡面 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 我們台灣製造的產品裡面 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 出口的第十大 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 就是我們的汽車零組件 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 我們汽車零組件每一年的產值多少 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:51,000 | 我們零組件 |
| 00:03:51,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 高達一千三百二十九億一年 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 我們的汽車零組件一年 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 高達一千三百二十九億的出口 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 完全不會受進口 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:11,000 | 進口車關稅降到零的任何影響 |
| 00:04:11,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 甚至我們會更強 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 不是嗎 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 所以經濟部的那個講法 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 完全胡說八道 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 我不怪經濟部那種講法啦 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 本來經濟部就是比較天馬行空嘛 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 但是你財政部不一樣耶 |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 財政部是很務實的 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 每一毛錢我們都要去算稅金 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 不是這樣嗎 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 你給我們的數字都是最詳實 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 而且最確切的嘛 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 經濟部本來他去想政策一些發展 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 本來他就會比較這種活潑式的 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 幻想式的 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 這個我不怪他 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 但是他不對的部分 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 你要糾正他 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 不是這樣嗎 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 怎麼你可以把他錯誤的部分 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 我上次質詢都已經糾正過他的 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:17,000 | 結果那個錯誤數字 |
| 00:05:17,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 你又把他灌到這一次的報告裡面 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 所以你說要把進口車關稅降到零 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 你說萬萬不可 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 因為那個你說孔佑國產車相繼撤離之餘 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 影響約847元的產值 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 及8.26萬位從業人員生計 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:43,000 | 我就說這個數字是錯的 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 8.26萬是我上次糾正過他 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 他倒正了 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 他本來說十幾萬 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 現在說8.26萬 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 但是我要跟你說 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 這些零組件8.26萬位從業人員 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 人家他們工作很勤奮 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 他的工作完全不受影響 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 影響的是像裕隆那個 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 我們保護他70幾年 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 這個阿斗保護他70幾年了 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 我們還要保護這個阿斗保護多久 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 他也不失本業的發展 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 他也跑去做租賃啊 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 地下的錢莊 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 有盤的地下的錢莊 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 最大的就是他們耶 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 我們還要再保護他什麼 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 那你說你又說啦 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 這一點是我們自己財政部的理由 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 這個我接受 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 你說這個關稅300多億 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 但是才300多億 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 你在報告裡面把它寫到說 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 這個不得了這個稅金是400多億 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 你給我你這個報告裡面的數字 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 是說進稅損523億至601億 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 336億的關稅 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 你們膨脹到500多億 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 原因是什麼 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 你把進口車的貨物稅也算進去耶 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 進口車我們的提案 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 我的其他委員的寶貴的提案 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 都一樣 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 只是說降關稅 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 進口車一樣要收貨物稅啊 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 他現在進口的量 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 多少付貨物稅以後照說 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 以後降了關稅進口的量大增 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 進口增加多少量 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 我們照收那些貨物稅啊 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 所以沒有貨物稅的問題 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 我們談的是關稅 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 所以我再一次強調 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 進口車關稅降到零 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 這是還我們全國所有車輛消費者 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 還他們一個公道 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 讓大家能夠跟全世界各國的人一樣 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 享用價廉物美的這個國外的車輛 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 大家一起來評比嘛 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 那至於說會不會影響到 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 我們國內汽車產業 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 我就是跟你說明 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 90%不影響 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 因為我們90%是零主建 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 我們的零主建 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 我們從車燈離合器變速箱氣囊 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 我們這一些都是世界各國 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 尤其先進國家 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 他們都熱切希望 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 熱切從我們台灣出口 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 進口到他們國家去的嘛 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 所以這個部分 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 產業的不受影響 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 我希望部長 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 你要這個鼓起勇氣 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 大聲的跟經濟部說 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 你講的這些 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 你要我財政部代你發言的這一些裡面 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 有很多是謬誤的 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 你要大聲跟他這樣講 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 然後你針對財稅的 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 你來跟我們所有的提案的委員說 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 你要這樣關稅這個是影響多少 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 這個我們來討論 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 但是不要把整個產業說 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 他們會從我們國內消失會撤離 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 會影響多少從業人員 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:27,000 | 這個部分是他們經濟部 |
| 00:09:27,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 一個錯誤虛幻的想法 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 這個部分大家要理清楚好不好 |
| 00:09:33,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 部長你的看法 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 謝謝委員的指教 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 我想在這裡面有特別提到 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 經濟部和財政部基本上 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 我們都是行政團隊的議員 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 我們各有職長 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 那在海關這個部分的關稅 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:48,000 | 當然有海關進口稅則的規定 |
| 00:09:48,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 那他怎麼規定 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 但是關稅裡面除了稅收之外 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 還有很重要一個就是 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 國內產業的相關的一些影響 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 那國內產業的相關影響 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 目前他的主管機關就是經濟部 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 那至於他的數字等等這個部分 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:05,000 | 我相信我們今天的經濟部代表也在現場 |
| 00:10:05,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 那他也都會聽到委員的指教 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 部長我剛剛講的這些數字 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 他否認嗎 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:15,000 | 那個產業署是不是 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 副署長我講的這些數字 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 我說我們的零組件 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 零組件占我們國內汽車業者 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 將近九成內這個產銷的金額 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 這個你否認嗎 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 那進口車關稅降到零 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:38,000 | 或者降低不管降到多少 |
| 00:10:38,000 | 00:10:41,000 | 會影響我們國內的零組件嗎 |
| 00:10:41,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 你認為呢 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 零組件的部分確實也會受影響 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 跟委員報告我們國內的汽車零組件產業 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:49,000 | 大概有超過兩成的部分 |
| 00:10:49,000 | 00:10:52,000 | 還是用在國產車上面 |
| 00:10:52,000 | 00:10:55,000 | 那當然您剛才所提的這個出口的部分 |
| 00:10:55,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 確實也接近八成左右 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:11:06,000 | 光這八成遠高於我們國內其他整車業者的金額 |
| 00:11:06,000 | 00:11:11,000 | 我們高達一千三百二十九億輸往美國的 |
| 00:11:11,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 不過內銷的這些零組件 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:17,000 | 還是有七八百億的產值 |
| 00:11:17,000 | 00:11:19,000 | 沒有啦 |
| 00:11:19,000 | 00:11:21,000 | 你把那個提供給我看 |
| 00:11:21,000 | 00:11:23,000 | 我有出口的金額 |
| 00:11:23,000 | 00:11:26,000 | 你說我們自己國內 |
| 00:11:26,000 | 00:11:29,000 | 內銷的七八百億 |
| 00:11:29,000 | 00:11:31,000 | 你把這個金額提供給我看 |
| 00:11:31,000 | 00:11:33,000 | 我跟你講 |
| 00:11:33,000 | 00:11:35,000 | 我們零組件業者 |
| 00:11:35,000 | 00:11:36,000 | 八萬五千人 |
| 00:11:36,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 這一次你們有接受我上次質詢 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:40,000 | 你們有更正 |
| 00:11:40,000 | 00:11:42,000 | 你就看你們上一次經濟部 |
| 00:11:42,000 | 00:11:44,000 | 委託財政部的報告 |
| 00:11:44,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 還有經濟部正式出的 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 說會影響我們汽車業者十幾萬從業人員 |
| 00:11:52,000 | 00:11:53,000 | 你們是 |
| 00:11:53,000 | 00:11:54,000 | 四個字 |
| 00:11:54,000 | 00:11:55,000 | 抱歉後主席 |
| 00:11:55,000 | 00:11:56,000 | 四個字 |
| 00:11:56,000 | 00:11:58,000 | 經濟部那個說法是四個字 |
| 00:11:58,000 | 00:12:00,000 | 危言聳聽 |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 另外四個字我就不講了 |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:05,000 | 因為我剛剛已經講過 |
| 00:12:05,000 | 00:12:07,000 | 胡說八道 |
| 00:12:08,000 | 00:12:09,000 | 跟委員更正 |
| 00:12:09,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 是六百億 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 國內的產值 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 你把數字給我看 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:15,000 | 我跟你講 |
| 00:12:15,000 | 00:12:19,000 | 美國的一千三百二十九億我們輸給過去 |