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楊瓊瓔 @ 第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,760 | 謝謝主席楊群發言邀請部長 |
| 00:00:02,760 | 00:00:04,000 | 請林部長 |
| 00:00:12,000 | 00:00:13,000 | 葫芦好 |
| 00:00:13,000 | 00:00:14,000 | 部長好 |
| 00:00:14,000 | 00:00:17,500 | 我們首先來討論南海的這個問題 |
| 00:00:17,500 | 00:00:22,000 | 我相信南海它不是只有一個單純的這個海洋爭議 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:24,500 | 它更是國際輿論戰 |
| 00:00:24,500 | 00:00:26,000 | 它也是法律戰 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 更是認知作戰 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 所以最近我們看到這幾年來 |
| 00:00:31,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 菲律賓、越南、甚至其他這個南海的申索國 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 他們不斷的透過國際的媒體 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:42,000 | 或者是國際法這個的一個論壇 |
| 00:00:42,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 或者是聯合國的一個機制 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 他們的外交白皮書 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:51,000 | 那國際的智庫以及社群的一個媒體的方式 |
| 00:00:51,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 不斷的來向世界各國呢 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:57,000 | 世界來宣揚它的一個主權的一個主張 |
| 00:00:57,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 尤其今年是第十年 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 所以在其他各國他們努力的如此在做 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 甚至在美日、非、加、澳以及歐洲這十四個國家 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 他們發表的聯合的一個聲明 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 那麼它重申喔 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 這個裁決是具有法律約束力 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 那換句話說 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 在南海仲裁案將我們將太平島降格為交 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 這個嚴重到一個主權的問題 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:31,000 | 嚴重到一個經濟海域 |
| 00:01:31,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 從兩百多海域的這個經濟量體 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 可以說是縮到交是十二海浬 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 十二海浬的這個範圍 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 所以在這樣嚴重的一個情況之下 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:47,000 | 當時發生的時候 |
| 00:01:47,000 | 00:01:49,000 | 蔡政府的時候 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 他立即就宣示了 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 他認為我們南海的諸島是屬於我們中華民國的一個領土 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 那我們政府也絕對會宣示堅定的去守護 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 我們自己的一個主權 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 捍衛國家的一個領土 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:10,000 | 跟相關海域的一個權利 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 他絕對不接受裁罰 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 是因為我們也沒有被邀請 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 沒有邀請我們 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 在這樣的情況之下 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 當時的政府他很大聲的說出 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 我不接受 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 那部長10年過後了 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 到現在為止世界主要的這些智庫 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 以及各國的外交官國際的媒體知道 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 我們對於南海的法律主張嗎 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 請教目前的樣態是如何 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 知道啊 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 因為我們的立場都有寫在外交部的網頁上 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 有發新聞稿 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 那至於其他國家互相去宣示立場 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 立場 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 但是當然他們的作為 |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 不過我們的立場都沒有改變 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 我們的立場沒有改變 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 我們也在我們外交部的網站上面 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 去做文字說明 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 但是其他國家的認知呢 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 因為我們事實上就是 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 我們專注於有沒有固定合作的 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 國際海洋法學者 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 我們有沒有鼓舞國際的智庫 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 海洋法研究中心 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 共同來建立我國的南海法律的論述 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 捍衛我們的主權 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 那我們是不是有 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 我們設定的南海國際宣傳的一個KPI |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 請做什麼 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 我請我們調法師來跟大家講一些重點的作文 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 是 委員好 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 我是調法師司長李憲章 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 其實我們跟國內的國際法學者 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 海洋法學者都有很密切的交流 |
| 00:03:44,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 像昨天我就跟中華民國國際法學 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 法學會的秘書長王正義王教授 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 國內的法學者 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 對 還有我們也透過他們跟國外的 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 這個國際法學會 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 做很多的密切的交流 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 請教 努力在做 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 我們現在針對國際媒體的投書 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 我們統計有多少篇 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 外媒的專訪有多少 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 國際智庫你合作了有多少 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:11,000 | 外館辦理多少南海的一個說明會 |
| 00:04:11,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 這點非常重要 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 是 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 外國學者引用我們的資料有用了多少 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 外館向世界各國來說明有幾次 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 我想部長在這邊這個才是重點 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:27,000 | 我們只有放在外交部的網站上面 |
| 00:04:27,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 這是不夠的 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 因為其他各國他們聯合在做 |
| 00:04:31,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 請教剛剛本席所提問的 |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 是不是可以給我數字說明 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 哪一位說明 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 是 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 包括我們今年4月到美國參加 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 美國國際法學會 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 跟世界國際法學會合辦的論壇 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 我們在裡面都有安排 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 以台灣為主題的相關的論壇 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 沒關係 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 你現在沒有辦法回答本席的提問 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 我這個題目給你 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 你順便資料給我 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 國際媒體投書有幾篇 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 外媒宣傳的專訪有多少 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 國際智庫合作有多少 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 外館辦理多少南海的說明會 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 外國學者引用我們的資料有多少 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 這個是重點 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 外館向各國 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 我們的外館向各國政府來說明的 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 有多少次 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 你把這個數字 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 會後數面資料給本席 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 我們會繼續來追蹤 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 好 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 那麼在這樣的情況之下 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 在馬總統的時候 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 在陳水扁的時候 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 陳水扁甚至 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 他是第一個登上太平島的 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 那請教部長 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 我們要宣示我們的主權 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 我們只有在網上上 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 這是不夠的 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 那你有沒有建議賴總統 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 登上太平島 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 來宣示我們的主權 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 有沒有 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 我以前就跟陳水扁總統 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 我在當總統部門 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 請教有沒有建議給賴總統 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 這個是東沙島 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 然後現在他是 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 請教你現在是外交部長 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 總統是不是 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 這個我們會跟相關單位 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 持續會商 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 國安會也針對這些問題 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 會協調 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 那至於說這本來就是我們的 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 這是我們的 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 我們國家元首去 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:11,000 | 這個是我們的權利 |
| 00:06:11,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 國家元首去就是我們的權利 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 什麼時候去怎麼去 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 我想這個都涉及到通盤 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 我想整個包括我們外交 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 還有我們的 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 跟地緣政治的很複雜的關係 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 這個不是說yes no的問題 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 我們有權去 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 當然這有過程 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 有協調 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 但是請教 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 到目前為止 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 你有沒有建議賴總統 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 要登上太平島宣示主權 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 這不是我個人建不建議 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 這是整個國安系統 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 必須通盤去考量 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 你到底有沒有建議 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 我沒有特別針對這個事情建議 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 因為這個東西涉及到海巡 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 所以你本身是認為 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 我們的主權不容許抹殺 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 我們包括好幾個主管機關 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 我們的主權不容許抹殺 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 我相信你贊同這樣子的 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 一個論述跟說法嗎 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 我們的領土 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 我們的主權是不容許抹殺的 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 對啊 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 對啊 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 我們也是一個島 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 我們不是一個礁 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 是不是 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 是啊 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 所以我希望有研議方案出來 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 接下來本來要跟你討論 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 巴布亞紐的這個 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 幾內亞的事情 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 上個禮拜四 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 大家聽到嚇了一跳 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 也就是怎麼會突然這樣子的 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 一個宣布 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 因為根據澳洲廣播公司ABC |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 它的報導 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 它的外長 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 塔爾斯琴克他說了 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 他發表了台灣在該國的運作 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 已不再獲得承認 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 義無必要 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 他更強化說 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 這是為了深化 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 跟北京互信關鍵的一步 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 在這樣的一個情況之下 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:49,000 | 引起了社會大眾很大的 |
| 00:07:49,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 一個亞裔跟華藍 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 在這樣的情況之下 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 因為我們跟巴紐 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 也有很多的經貿協議 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 那今晚7月 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 那所以要請教 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 他這項的決策 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 我們事前外交部知情嗎 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 其實在去年就 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 經過大家的交涉 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 他們內閣通過一個決定 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 就是要檢討巴紐跟台灣的關係 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 所以這個外交部長 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 還沒有到兩年 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 他自己做這個宣示 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 當然他也講得很清楚 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 我們知道背後也是中國在影響 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 所以我們就是說 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 在持續跟他交涉 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 那也跟一些友盟溝通 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 我們也是針對他講的 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 說我們沒有什麼計畫往來 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 我們也加以澄清 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:39,000 | 所以這個目前的狀態 |
| 00:08:39,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 就在交涉中 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 所以目前為止 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 我們一直聽到外交部 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 也提出抗議 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 那也一直告訴我們 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 我們還在交涉當中 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 因為這其中也包括了 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:55,000 | 蠻多的商業的 |
| 00:08:55,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 一個原本的合作跟契約 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 那我國的一個權益 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 我們必須一定要堅定的 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 找出方法能夠確保 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:11,000 | 我國的一個權益 |
| 00:09:11,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 這個目標應該是朝這個目標吧 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 是朝這個目標 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 所以再請教 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 那目前為止 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:19,000 | 我們還有沒有 |
| 00:09:19,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 更進一步的一個進展 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 跟巴紐 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:27,000 | 你們外交部辛苦的在交涉當中 |
| 00:09:27,000 | 00:09:29,000 | 那目前為止 |
| 00:09:29,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 還有沒有更進一步的進展 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 目前就交涉中 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 然後有一些國家 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:37,000 | 也陸續有發聲 |
| 00:09:37,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 就是支持台灣 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 繼續在這邊 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 維持我們的代表處 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:45,000 | 那請教 |
| 00:09:45,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 巴紐到目前為止 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 有沒有善意的回應 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 就是在交涉中 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:53,000 | 交涉中 |
| 00:09:53,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 一定要加油 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 好 謝謝 |