iVOD / 170636
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陳超明 @ 第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 張鋒鋒 民委員 |
| 00:00:13,380 | 00:00:15,200 | 欸 持續喔 |
| 00:00:15,200 | 00:00:18,160 | 首先有請我們經濟部 恐部長 |
| 00:00:18,160 | 00:00:20,160 | 請經濟部恐部長 |
| 00:00:25,260 | 00:00:26,100 | 市委員早安 |
| 00:00:26,100 | 00:00:28,100 | 欸 恐部長早安 |
| 00:00:28,900 | 00:00:33,200 | 那今天能源管理法部分討論的修正 |
| 00:00:33,200 | 00:00:35,200 | 原則上 我們都會支持 |
| 00:00:35,200 | 00:00:36,200 | 謝謝 |
| 00:00:36,200 | 00:00:39,200 | 但是我第三點我要請教你 |
| 00:00:39,200 | 00:00:41,200 | 就是管理啊 |
| 00:00:41,200 | 00:00:45,200 | 你們在有五個重點裡面的第三點 |
| 00:00:45,200 | 00:00:47,200 | 中定能源大戶 |
| 00:00:47,200 | 00:00:52,200 | 應設置自用發電及儲冷設備 |
| 00:00:52,200 | 00:00:57,200 | 有助於強化企業能源的自給能力 |
| 00:00:57,300 | 00:00:59,300 | 那我常常在想一個問題 |
| 00:00:59,300 | 00:01:01,300 | 包括你部長 |
| 00:01:01,300 | 00:01:03,300 | 包括我們能源 |
| 00:01:03,300 | 00:01:05,300 | 包括台電都講 |
| 00:01:05,300 | 00:01:08,300 | 我們2030年以前不缺電 |
| 00:01:08,300 | 00:01:11,300 | 今天你把這個條文弄出來 |
| 00:01:11,300 | 00:01:13,300 | 主要的用意在哪裡 |
| 00:01:13,300 | 00:01:15,300 | 讓我們了解一下 |
| 00:01:15,300 | 00:01:17,300 | 那八委員還是要增加 |
| 00:01:17,300 | 00:01:19,300 | 因為他是用電大戶啦 |
| 00:01:19,300 | 00:01:23,300 | 就是說 增加他的這個韌性 |
| 00:01:23,300 | 00:01:25,300 | 電力供應的韌性 |
| 00:01:25,399 | 00:01:27,399 | 就是 |
| 00:01:27,399 | 00:01:29,399 | 還是會有天災嘛 對不對 |
| 00:01:29,399 | 00:01:31,399 | 如果發生天災的時候 |
| 00:01:31,399 | 00:01:33,399 | 他是用電大戶 |
| 00:01:33,399 | 00:01:35,399 | 那用電的數量那麼多 |
| 00:01:35,399 | 00:01:37,399 | 那如果在這個時間裡面 |
| 00:01:37,399 | 00:01:39,399 | 他有這個韌性 |
| 00:01:39,399 | 00:01:41,400 | 我看這個實在是戰爭的一個準備 |
| 00:01:41,400 | 00:01:43,400 | 你2030年不缺電 |
| 00:01:43,400 | 00:01:45,400 | 核二核三又取用了 |
| 00:01:45,400 | 00:01:47,400 | 應該更不缺電 |
| 00:01:47,400 | 00:01:49,400 | 所以這條條文怪怪 |
| 00:01:49,400 | 00:01:51,400 | 但是我容來 |
| 00:01:51,400 | 00:01:53,400 | 這裡面你要 |
| 00:01:53,500 | 00:01:55,500 | 那你告訴我 |
| 00:01:55,500 | 00:01:57,500 | 自用發電現在有幾種方式 |
| 00:01:57,500 | 00:01:59,500 | 照我了解的 |
| 00:01:59,500 | 00:02:01,500 | 有一個氣電控制 |
| 00:02:01,500 | 00:02:03,500 | 一個發電機 |
| 00:02:03,500 | 00:02:05,500 | 有沒有更新型的方式 |
| 00:02:05,500 | 00:02:07,500 | 就是固定式的燃料電池發電 |
| 00:02:07,500 | 00:02:09,500 | 固定式的燃料紙發電 |
| 00:02:09,500 | 00:02:11,500 | 是不是保來的那個 |
| 00:02:11,500 | 00:02:13,500 | 保來的那個的話 |
| 00:02:13,500 | 00:02:15,500 | 我是問的 |
| 00:02:15,500 | 00:02:17,500 | 因為剛好我們廠在紫蘭 |
| 00:02:17,500 | 00:02:19,500 | 所以我比較清楚 |
| 00:02:19,500 | 00:02:21,500 | 但是容來要用到天然氣 |
| 00:02:21,600 | 00:02:23,600 | 但是容來要用到天然氣 |
| 00:02:23,600 | 00:02:25,600 | 要要要沒有錯 |
| 00:02:25,600 | 00:02:27,600 | 那天然氣萬一斷供的話 |
| 00:02:27,600 | 00:02:29,600 | 你要怎麼辦 |
| 00:02:29,600 | 00:02:31,600 | 我現在在問這個問題 |
| 00:02:31,600 | 00:02:33,600 | 如果那個是用天然氣 |
| 00:02:33,600 | 00:02:35,600 | 發電的話 |
| 00:02:35,600 | 00:02:37,600 | 萬一正常的話 |
| 00:02:37,600 | 00:02:39,600 | 天然氣供電一停下來要怎麼辦 |
| 00:02:39,600 | 00:02:41,600 | 報告委員所以為什麼是多元 |
| 00:02:41,600 | 00:02:43,600 | 有一個是直接用電的 |
| 00:02:43,600 | 00:02:45,600 | 有一個天然氣 |
| 00:02:45,600 | 00:02:47,600 | 只要天然氣不斷他就不會斷電 |
| 00:02:47,600 | 00:02:49,600 | 我跟你講天然氣不斷 |
| 00:02:49,700 | 00:02:51,700 | 你都說好天然氣 |
| 00:02:51,700 | 00:02:53,700 | 但是我給你提醒一下 |
| 00:02:53,700 | 00:02:55,700 | 我們都不反對 |
| 00:02:55,700 | 00:02:57,700 | 因為這是一個新式的能源方式 |
| 00:02:57,700 | 00:02:59,700 | 還有一個儲能的方式 |
| 00:02:59,700 | 00:03:01,700 | 到底要多大 |
| 00:03:01,700 | 00:03:03,700 | 才能讓這些工廠能用 |
| 00:03:03,700 | 00:03:05,700 | 儲能裡面 |
| 00:03:05,700 | 00:03:07,700 | 現在你的電池裡面最重要 |
| 00:03:07,700 | 00:03:09,700 | 電池現在 |
| 00:03:09,700 | 00:03:11,700 | 也很怕飛機燃燒起來 |
| 00:03:11,700 | 00:03:13,700 | 所以這個考量裡面 |
| 00:03:13,700 | 00:03:15,700 | 你花了那麼大的錢 |
| 00:03:15,700 | 00:03:17,700 | 不是天天在用 |
| 00:03:17,799 | 00:03:19,799 | 只是緊急在用電用的 |
| 00:03:19,799 | 00:03:21,799 | 他的投資法不划算 |
| 00:03:21,799 | 00:03:23,799 | 大家都是將本求利的 |
| 00:03:23,799 | 00:03:25,799 | 只有台積電有辦法 |
| 00:03:25,799 | 00:03:27,799 | 高利潤毛利能到80 |
| 00:03:27,799 | 00:03:29,799 | 到80的企業才有辦法 |
| 00:03:29,799 | 00:03:31,799 | 好好考量一下 |
| 00:03:31,799 | 00:03:33,799 | 不反對你們說 |
| 00:03:33,799 | 00:03:35,799 | 把自己的重點 |
| 00:03:35,799 | 00:03:37,799 | 納在那邊 |
| 00:03:37,799 | 00:03:39,799 | 所以自用自備發電 |
| 00:03:39,799 | 00:03:41,799 | 你現在一個標準條件 |
| 00:03:41,799 | 00:03:43,799 | 要出來 |
| 00:03:43,799 | 00:03:45,799 | 讓這些能源大戶 |
| 00:03:45,900 | 00:03:47,900 | 有可以遵循的方向 |
| 00:03:47,900 | 00:03:49,900 | 不容易投資錯了 |
| 00:03:49,900 | 00:03:51,900 | 這不是小錢 |
| 00:03:51,900 | 00:03:53,900 | 你一個能源的成本 |
| 00:03:53,900 | 00:03:55,900 | 都要好幾億 |
| 00:03:55,900 | 00:03:57,900 | 特別注意這一點 |
| 00:03:57,900 | 00:03:59,900 | 再來 |
| 00:03:59,900 | 00:04:01,900 | 我一直很生氣 |
| 00:04:01,900 | 00:04:03,900 | 我們AI資料 |
| 00:04:03,900 | 00:04:05,900 | 中心的納管 |
| 00:04:05,900 | 00:04:07,900 | 那經濟部在7月1號 |
| 00:04:07,900 | 00:04:09,900 | 有一個 |
| 00:04:09,900 | 00:04:11,900 | 依靠修正能源開發 |
| 00:04:11,900 | 00:04:13,900 | 及使用評估 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 評估的整則 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 所謂被5MHz |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 以上的資料中心 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 要嚴格審查 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 那以前台電的 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 董事長在請教他的時候 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 他就說討厭以北 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 因為電網的貧窮 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 所以要設立 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 5MHz以上的資料中心 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 是非常困難的 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 那在2024年的9月 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 台電的供電會議 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 決議 |
| 00:04:42,100 | 00:04:44,100 | 台電供電會議決議 |
| 00:04:44,100 | 00:04:46,100 | 桃園以北暫緩供電 |
| 00:04:46,100 | 00:04:48,100 | 這個都是 |
| 00:04:48,100 | 00:04:50,100 | 這樣一路下來 |
| 00:04:50,100 | 00:04:52,100 | 但是部長你到桃園說 |
| 00:04:52,100 | 00:04:54,100 | 這個沒有問題 |
| 00:04:54,100 | 00:04:56,100 | 5MHz以上沒有問題 |
| 00:04:56,100 | 00:04:58,100 | 其實你7月1號 |
| 00:04:58,100 | 00:05:00,100 | 才修正能源開發 |
| 00:05:00,100 | 00:05:02,100 | 及使用評估的整則 |
| 00:05:02,100 | 00:05:04,100 | 大家都很緊張 |
| 00:05:04,100 | 00:05:06,100 | 到底在桃園以北 |
| 00:05:06,100 | 00:05:08,100 | 有沒有問題 |
| 00:05:08,100 | 00:05:10,100 | 你的電網已經建議完成了 |
| 00:05:10,200 | 00:05:12,200 | 你那個什麼變電站 |
| 00:05:12,200 | 00:05:14,200 | 那些都有沒有完成 |
| 00:05:14,200 | 00:05:16,200 | 你到底有沒有去跟他們打電話 |
| 00:05:16,200 | 00:05:18,200 | 現在大家一網一路 |
| 00:05:18,200 | 00:05:20,200 | 都跑到桃園去 |
| 00:05:20,200 | 00:05:22,200 | 報告委員因為 |
| 00:05:22,200 | 00:05:24,200 | 桃園以北事實上他是比較 |
| 00:05:24,200 | 00:05:26,200 | 都市比較多 |
| 00:05:26,200 | 00:05:28,200 | 那些電網 |
| 00:05:28,200 | 00:05:30,200 | 人也比較密集 |
| 00:05:30,200 | 00:05:32,200 | 那這些電網因為你要做算力中心 |
| 00:05:32,200 | 00:05:34,200 | 如果是5MHz以上的話 |
| 00:05:34,200 | 00:05:36,200 | 要拉比較高的電壓 |
| 00:05:36,200 | 00:05:38,200 | 需要比較高的電壓 |
| 00:05:38,300 | 00:05:40,300 | 下來不管你1MHz |
| 00:05:40,300 | 00:05:42,300 | 2MHz 3MHz |
| 00:05:42,300 | 00:05:44,300 | 大家都會逃避到5MHz以下 |
| 00:05:44,300 | 00:05:46,300 | 但是我分散視了 |
| 00:05:46,300 | 00:05:48,300 | 你會受不了 |
| 00:05:48,300 | 00:05:50,300 | 現在已經發生這樣 |
| 00:05:50,300 | 00:05:52,300 | 你有地區好幾個 |
| 00:05:52,300 | 00:05:54,300 | AI的算力中心在 |
| 00:05:56,300 | 00:05:58,300 | 那一用電下來都很嚇人 |
| 00:06:00,300 | 00:06:02,300 | 所以你要好好考慮這個問題 |
| 00:06:02,300 | 00:06:04,300 | AI算力中心 |
| 00:06:04,300 | 00:06:06,300 | 你 |
| 00:06:06,400 | 00:06:08,400 | 因為大部分電力中心 |
| 00:06:08,400 | 00:06:10,400 | 會設在北部 |
| 00:06:10,400 | 00:06:12,400 | 他們究竟能 |
| 00:06:12,400 | 00:06:14,400 | 看管得到 |
| 00:06:14,400 | 00:06:16,400 | 那對我們民生用電的壓力 |
| 00:06:16,400 | 00:06:18,400 | 會非常大 |
| 00:06:18,400 | 00:06:20,400 | 所以我們才有 |
| 00:06:20,400 | 00:06:22,400 | 這樣的相關的規範 |
| 00:06:22,400 | 00:06:24,400 | 你如果要超過5MHz以上 |
| 00:06:24,400 | 00:06:26,400 | 比較大型的算力中心 |
| 00:06:26,400 | 00:06:28,400 | 我跟你講 |
| 00:06:28,400 | 00:06:30,400 | 大部分在2MHz 3MHz上面 |
| 00:06:30,400 | 00:06:32,400 | 加起來就很嚇人 |
| 00:06:32,400 | 00:06:34,400 | 我散視也問你 |
| 00:06:34,500 | 00:06:36,500 | 我說AI的算力中心 |
| 00:06:36,500 | 00:06:38,500 | 不是說只有5MHz以上 |
| 00:06:38,500 | 00:06:40,500 | 才會去審查 |
| 00:06:40,500 | 00:06:42,500 | 5MHz以下還是看區域 |
| 00:06:42,500 | 00:06:44,500 | 可以負擔 |
| 00:06:44,500 | 00:06:46,500 | 這樣子比較 |
| 00:06:46,500 | 00:06:48,500 | 能避開你們嚴格的審查 |
| 00:06:48,500 | 00:06:50,500 | 我是不是先跟你提醒 |
| 00:06:50,500 | 00:06:52,500 | 現在已經有好幾家在做 |
| 00:06:52,500 | 00:06:54,500 | 如果說很多的 |
| 00:06:54,500 | 00:06:56,500 | 2MHz 3MHz在區域 |
| 00:06:56,500 | 00:06:58,500 | 建起來但是影響到電網的安全 |
| 00:06:58,500 | 00:07:00,500 | 大概也還是沒有辦法 |
| 00:07:00,500 | 00:07:02,500 | 我現在是跟你講 |
| 00:07:02,600 | 00:07:04,600 | 所以你不關心苗栗 |
| 00:07:04,600 | 00:07:06,600 | 我們有通宵火力化電廠 |
| 00:07:06,600 | 00:07:08,600 | 我們在旁邊很近 |
| 00:07:08,600 | 00:07:10,600 | 而且我們是屈臨地 |
| 00:07:10,600 | 00:07:12,600 | 你有沒有看到 |
| 00:07:12,600 | 00:07:14,600 | 美國跟伊朗在打仗 |
| 00:07:14,600 | 00:07:16,600 | 他打到 |
| 00:07:16,600 | 00:07:18,600 | 那個Dubai的Google |
| 00:07:18,600 | 00:07:20,600 | Emerald的試劑中心 |
| 00:07:20,600 | 00:07:22,600 | 先把他打掉 |
| 00:07:22,600 | 00:07:24,600 | 所以在台北那邊很容易被打 |
| 00:07:24,600 | 00:07:26,600 | 所以說苗栗最安全 |
| 00:07:26,600 | 00:07:28,600 | 所有水嘛 |
| 00:07:28,600 | 00:07:30,600 | 有水 |
| 00:07:30,700 | 00:07:32,700 | 三座水庫還有天花湖水庫 |
| 00:07:36,700 | 00:07:38,700 | 我聽到你們聲在響 |
| 00:07:38,700 | 00:07:40,700 | 我再講一次 |
| 00:07:40,700 | 00:07:42,700 | 不要擔心 |
| 00:07:42,700 | 00:07:44,700 | 你要平均的分佈在我這邊 |
| 00:07:44,700 | 00:07:45,700 | 打的時候 |
| 00:07:45,700 | 00:07:47,700 | 屈臨地也比較安全一點 |
| 00:07:47,700 | 00:07:49,700 | 土地也非常寬闊 |
| 00:07:49,700 | 00:07:51,700 | 通宵火力化電廠也夠 |
| 00:07:51,700 | 00:07:53,700 | 你也跟我們推薦 |
| 00:07:53,700 | 00:07:55,700 | 你要來導致叫來表揚 |
| 00:07:55,700 | 00:07:57,700 | 我們成立AI |
| 00:07:57,700 | 00:07:59,700 | 專利特區的那個土地 |
| 00:07:59,800 | 00:08:01,800 | 給他們 |
| 00:08:01,800 | 00:08:03,800 | 這是我們中東女縣長一直拜託 |
| 00:08:03,800 | 00:08:05,800 | 說這個部長不錯 |
| 00:08:05,800 | 00:08:07,800 | 你們拜託他 |
| 00:08:07,800 | 00:08:09,800 | 把要設AI中心的那一些 |
| 00:08:09,800 | 00:08:11,800 | 不要在北部 |
| 00:08:11,800 | 00:08:13,800 | 用電那麼量會影響到民生用電 |
| 00:08:13,800 | 00:08:15,800 | 大家會非常緊張 |
| 00:08:15,800 | 00:08:17,800 | 現在美國加州 |
| 00:08:17,800 | 00:08:19,800 | 有一個大的AI中心 |
| 00:08:19,800 | 00:08:21,800 | 被當地的州長取消了 |
| 00:08:21,800 | 00:08:23,800 | 所以 |
| 00:08:23,800 | 00:08:25,800 | 能不能幫我們 |
| 00:08:25,800 | 00:08:27,800 | 拿力推一把 |
| 00:08:27,900 | 00:08:29,900 | 委員你看我一直點頭 |
| 00:08:29,900 | 00:08:31,900 | 你一直點頭 |
| 00:08:31,900 | 00:08:33,900 | 你真的喔 |
| 00:08:33,900 | 00:08:35,900 | 我就叫我們政府提出計劃出來 |
| 00:08:35,900 | 00:08:37,900 | 先給你感謝 |
| 00:08:37,900 | 00:08:39,900 | 謝謝 |