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王義川 @ 第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:04,000 | 好 謝謝主席 我們請林部長 |
| 00:00:04,000 | 00:00:06,000 | 請林部長 |
| 00:00:14,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 部長好 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:17,000 | 委員早 |
| 00:00:17,000 | 00:00:22,000 | 部長 我看你們今天這個報告寫的好像很委屈 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 很憋屈 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 在中華民國的外交上 我很少看到 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:33,000 | 寫的這麼 想要說還不想說的感覺 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:39,000 | 說對著南海 我們就做海事合作 環境保育 人道救援 科學研究 |
| 00:00:39,000 | 00:00:42,000 | 跟理念相近國家 區域夥伴合作 |
| 00:00:42,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 維持南海和平穩定 航行 飛航自由 等等 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 意思就是說對南海的事情 我們中華民國外交部 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 好像沒有在主動出擊 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 是不是這個感覺 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 有些東西我們以行動來表達 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:03,000 | 比如說我們對太平島 我想海巡署在這裡 |
| 00:01:03,000 | 00:01:05,000 | 我們的海委會 |
| 00:01:05,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 其實我們實際上就在這裡 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:11,000 | 這個是事實 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 至於說因為這涉及到很複雜 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 包括深守國之間有各種的問題 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 包括中華人民共和國 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 他也想借助台灣 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 去做一個理由 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 但是我們怎麼樣不去涉入到他們之間的紛爭 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 但是能夠捍衛我們的利益 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 所以講話比較客氣 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:32,000 | 但是是很堅定的 |
| 00:01:32,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 比如說這個四點原則 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 還有五項的我們的作為 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 這個都很具體 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 當時蔡英文總統特別把這個定調 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 是讓我們不會進退失據 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 但是我們也可以有為有首 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 因為我看外交部這幾年 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 只要到其他國家去 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:02:02,000 | 不管事前事中或你去完一個月以後才發布訊息 |
| 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 我個人認為那個都是主動出擊 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 有機會下去 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:11,000 | 我們也希望跟我們的友盟不要有surprise |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 所以很多要共同管理 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 因為用國際情勢 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 所以委會看到有一些 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 我們處理的方法不盡相同 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 因為會因各國而議 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 所以大家都看到 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 最近你去一月前跑去哪裡 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 我不是去玩 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 我是去了解他們 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 包括柏英圍牆 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 或者是這些關政治派的地方 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 那是你表面去看這個 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 你去到其他的地方 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 你也不能說 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 所以這個算是主動出擊 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 今天的報告看起來就是 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 我看整篇看起來 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 好像那裡有狀況 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 我們外交部才會發表相關的言論 |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 我這樣的解讀對不對 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 柯協情委員 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 那如果你的話你會怎麼做 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 我當我們指教一下 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 人家我們陳永康委員 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 都有秀出那個圖 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 你的圖如果有的話 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 我們就可以拿回去好好學習 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 不然你留在一張 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 你是外交部長 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 我是問說為什麼這個看起來 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 我們都是有狀況 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 我們回應 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 不是很主動的在談真事 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 在國際的這個局面頂管 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 到底顧慮是什麼 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 因為我們常常被排除不能參加 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 所以為什麼國際媒宣這麼重要 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 或會議 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 我們有時候真的是 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 我們的官員也只能用學者的身分 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 或藉助學者去參加對不對 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 我們就是窮盡一切的方法 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 就要參與 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 然後這個感覺起來 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 我們做這個事情 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 有時候要敬畏 |
| 00:03:44,000 | 00:03:46,000 | 可是看起來 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 外交部怎麼想的 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 就都在一些社群媒體上 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 那這些相對國家 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 的利害關係 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 這些國家的媒體上 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 我們過去有沒有編預算 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 在他們各國內部 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 只要有狀況的時候 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 裡面媒體也會帶一句 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 中華民國的立場 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 這件事情我們 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 有沒有在做 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 有做但做的時候實在 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 我剛才講了 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 比較 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 軟囊羞澀 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 但是我們透過社群媒體 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 或是透過邀訪記者 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 也是盡量在做 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 但是有一些真的我們打不太進去 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 除了邦交關係以外 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 其實媒宣是很重要的 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 所以我們一點一滴 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 我們現在內容 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 人家會幫我們推波 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 所以要有產品 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 你看最近中國他們就是 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 弄成猴子 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 這個就變成新聞 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 這個也是 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 媒宣這個也要製作費 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 當然引起反彈 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 用這種歧視不好 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 我們有沒有考慮這個題目 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 由中華民國的外交部 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 主動針對南海的事情 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 在中華民國 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 開一個研討會 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 國際的 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 我們會跟海委會 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 相關的 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 其實是也有 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 不過委員的建議我們來 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 最近這個時機應該是 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 很適合 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 讓我們的政府 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 或是專家學者 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 還有各界的意見能夠呈現 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 我們來籌辦一下好了 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 這個就是我講的比較主動 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 因為現在看起來就是 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 有狀況 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 包括我們外館也很努力 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 在溝通我們的立場 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 然後我們透過社群 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 各種語言的社群 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 表達我們的立場 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 這看起來比較被動 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 那如果可以比較主動 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 又不要去激怒 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 相關的其他國家 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 然後透過研討會 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 也許是一個方式 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 各國相關 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 利害關係國家的學者專家 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 大家一起來討論這個國際法 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 或是海洋法相關的事情 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 也許是一個好的方法 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 這譬如說我看了到今年 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 來研究看有沒有辦法辦這個法 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 好 我們來加強辦理 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 那這個中國 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 他們現在對這個事情 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 在你們的報告裡頭談了三件事情 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 叫做官方敘事 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 灰色地帶行動 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 軍事化部署 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 這三件事情 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 那中華民國呢 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 有沒有官方敘事 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 灰色地帶行動這我們可能不會做 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 軍事化部署 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 跟官方敘事 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 他們知道中華民國這樣做 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 那我們相對的 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 在這些事情上面 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 我們的做法是什麼 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 我們不管任何的事件或是說 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 比較整體的我們的立場 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 我們其實都有 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 很密切的在做 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 我們的所謂敘事 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 這些整合的意見 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 然後跟做對外的 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 戰略溝通 其實這一次 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 所謂的南海仲裁的十周年 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 我們其實跟 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 包括國安會 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 陸委會 海委會 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 包括國防部 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 其實我們都有超前部署 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 這樣才不會陷入到 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 到時候被動或慌亂 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 所以大家可以講法一致 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 這個就是所謂敘事 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 另外至於說我們當然 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 軍事上我們台灣現在很清楚 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 我們的這個對中共的 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 整個混合戰 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 除了這個軍事方面 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 之外這一些灰色地帶的操弄 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 實際上我們是每天都在處理 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 因為訪兵很多 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 我們也出國去的 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 很多的參與的一些 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 重要會議 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 所以這可以說是24小時 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 不分晝夜都在進行 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 國際的宣傳戰 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 那這個是 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 有些是戰略溝通 因為要跟 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 利害關係人一起來應處 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 所以確實這個 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 一億的多的預算 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 很重要 那我們也知道委員 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 你的這個對民主基金會 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 也這個 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 保留 現在保留 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 不是說就有或沒有 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 到朝野協商的時候一併 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 你怎麼在講這條 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 民主基金會 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 可以做一些事情 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 我們也希望說讓民主基金會可以做事 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 但是讓我們這個外交部也可以做事 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 這兩岸並程 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 看能不能一起能夠來討論 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 讓我們多一點 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 這是超越黨派的 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 超越黨派的啦 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 好 各個研究 |