| IVOD_ID |
170384 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170384 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-08T14:31:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-08T14:44:20+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:12 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c821028c81e1a3137c4458c89d092fec882f4f377f92d09546404c5914fa0a6f3b7f85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊曜 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:31:08 - 14:44:20 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
討論事項
審查
一、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
二、委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
三、委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。
四、委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
六、委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
七、委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
八、委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
九、委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
十、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。
十一、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十二、委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
十三、委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十四、委員陳超明等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
十五、委員黃健豪等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
十六、委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十七、委員王育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】
【討論事項第十七案，如經復議則不予審查】） |
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謝謝謝謝主席主席我先請一下食安辦公室主任 華欣徐副主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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因為你比較少來所以我想是這樣子就是 |
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39.369 |
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執政團隊重視食安所以特別設立了食安辦公室那我想要請問一下像在這個事件裡面包括有關食品安全法的修正辦公室這邊扮演的角色是什麼也就是說我簡單講就是說今天這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
65.27 |
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68.951 |
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我請你上來打詢,是OK的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
70.182 |
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OK啊 OK好那個舉例上來講這一次的7月1號收到通報之後我就立刻要跟院內長官相報然後我們收指示然後一樣會督導請食藥署每天一次到兩次的把最新的情形那個提供相報然後上面有任何 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
98.021 |
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問跟什麼的想知道都會先問我們食安辦說這個狀況過往的情況它可能是怎麼樣因為可以幫可以幫忙長官們了解情形這樣子你們督導他們嗎對對對你們督導他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
113.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
116.303 |
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有沒有包括食安法的修法的部分? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
128.655 |
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平常的時候啦假如我們平常就會有一些討論法規是沒有有做法規的相關研究會討論嗎我們是沒有在事前的時候討論說修法的方向這個是可以先討論但是牽涉到真正到修法的內容的時候特別食安法是沒有好那我問我先問一個你可能比較清楚的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
155.811 |
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就是說我們在事件發生以後事件發生以後曾經衛福部這邊有做過幾次宣示第一次是有關第一層產品也就是原料初步製成的食品譬如說大豆沙拉油這個下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
182.094 |
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還有第二層產品就是運用第一層再製的食品對不對可是是原料含佔比百分之二十以上這個事情你知道那我想請問一下這個是依據106年公佈的一個處理原則來公佈的那為什麼後來又有第三次公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
215.304 |
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其實我不知道為什麼又第三次的那個我知道的是在那個你食品辦公室專家會議之後然後確實在會議上是有討論到的那個時候大概是用一個科學風險的概念在討論那是第二次我先表明我的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
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就食安啊包括剛剛盧縣議員講的就是全民最重視的東西所以應該要重演預防性的先來下架可是我對於這一點我想不透啊就是說已經有一個處理原則在那邊為什麼不依照處理原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
264.827 |
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那假如說處理原則有問題為什麼食安辦公室這麼久不跟衛福部做提醒懂我的意思嗎那假如說你們連這一部分都沒有負責到那我還真的不知道食安辦公室到底成立的目的跟作用是什麼啊了解我們是不是我要講喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
294.949 |
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313.973 |
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就是說最民怨的做法就是全部下架啦這個誰都知道可是有很多是有科學跟相關根據來做判斷的啊所以你連為什麼會有第三次的公佈你也不知道好吧那請回好了請一下衛福部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.314 |
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355.439 |
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尤其是部長兩位你好部長好部長我剛剛問了死亡辦公室就是我對於行政機關不按照處理原則來做相關危機的處理我是有意見的因為我覺得簡單的講就是大家都很相悅當然是下架越多越好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.73 |
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383.23 |
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可是應不應該這麼做是另外一回事我當然也支持你們部裡面開出了一億多的罰款這個重罰我也支持因為食品的管控必須要很堅持可是這個跟一變再變 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
384.96 |
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不按照處理原則做這個是兩回事不過我今天其實找你上來其實是想要簡單問幾個問題就是說法律上有義務才會有責任我發現所有的食品從製程到銷售衛福部這邊介入的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
409.434 |
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430.566 |
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法律上剋予你們的責任的義務並不多啊是不是我現在講的是法律責任善後的責任因為我們執政嘛所以所有善後責任我們來承擔這個沒有問題可是問題是在食品安全衛生管理法裡面規定的其實 |
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433.703 |
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453.529 |
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就是你們只能專案抽查對是不是對我們就其實這個食安的維繫呢是中央跟地方一起合作我知道那多數是由中央訂一些規則然後由地方去執行其實只有在專案的部分會由中央啟動其實多數是業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
454.935 |
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482.808 |
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自我管理啦 對不對因為我們在第七條上面就寫著食品業者應該把他的產品的原材料半成品 成品自行或者是送交其他檢驗機關這個是客語 客語食品業者就是要嘛就自我檢驗可能是三千萬以上的好像是半年一次還多久嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
483.648 |
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505.881 |
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對半年半年一次然後或者是送交檢驗單位第三方檢驗可是呢我現在都是扣住食安法修法因為今天的題目有兩個食安法也要修法建議一下部裡面跟署裡面看要不要直接那個第一個就是送檢的機關有沒有通報義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
509.12 |
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535.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個我覺得送檢的第三公正房應該要接受那個委託檢驗的第三方有問題應該要直接通報給主管集團這個目前沒有規定請你們趕快看能不能來得及這一次一起還有就是一樣是第七條主席不好意思我可能還要一點時間再來就是第七條 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
537.452 |
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563.644 |
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第七條剛才我講的食品業者應該將產品原材料半成品跟成品送驗這個是第七條第二款第五款的規定是食品業者於發現產品有危害食品衛生安全之餘這裡規定的只有產品沒有原料 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
564.707 |
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577.592 |
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那我查了一下是因為立法的時候是先立了第五款第二款是晚一年才立可能一時沒有配額好等於說上游廠商的產品供給下游變成他的原料 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
588.004 |
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615.033 |
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原料是原料有縱使我發現原料有有危害危害食衛生安全的時候我是不用通報的這個法律漏洞我也希望部裡面跟署裡面這邊趕快把他把他補起來嗯好不好我我向來向來不覺得欸欸很多東西我剛才講了善後是我們的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
616.26 |
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637.64 |
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就是讓國人安心 這個是執政者的責任可是呢 法律上有漏洞 那是立法院自己的責任立法院自己人力也不給足我說真的啦 食品這麼多樣 這麼多品項 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
642.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
668.74 |
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我也不相信你們有能力去把管那只要遇到問題就當作政治事件這個我覺得不應該不過行政機關必須要把持住的就是我剛才講的有處理原則有要點在就堅守住原本有的法規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
671.873 |
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695.047 |
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堅守法規範總比一變再變好好在哪裡 第一維持了行政機關原本的專業性第二比較不會造成恐慌其實你一變再變就會把整個事情弄得好像更加的人心惶惶部長你懂我的意思嗎我剛剛的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
699.775 |
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727.489 |
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的修法建議當然我也可以提可是我怕我提沒有辦法併入這一次你們提可能會速度可能會快一點那這個確實是是一個漏洞也就是說說泰山縱使知道縱使知道知道他的原料有問題他是不需要通報的我現在我現在是不是還是要還是要要 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
733.42 |
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744.813 |
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法規在哪裡?沒有規定在同一條啊?第五項要嗎?第五項是什麼規定的? |
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749.357 |
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767.945 |
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他只要發現這個產品有危害衛生安全之虞,就要停止,停止製造,而且要通報那都是我沒有看清楚反正就是我 |
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我向來比較覺得有問題出現盡可能的從法律面來做解決那當然我也講了不管是不是法律責任只要執政所有的善後就是我們的責任好不好辛苦了好謝謝主席謝謝楊耀偉的資訊 |
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楊委員曜 |
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|
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謝謝主席。 |
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1 |
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楊委員曜 |
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2026-07-08T14:31:28.894000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-07-08T14:31:34.916000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
我先請食安辦公室主任。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-07-08T14:31:35.836000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-07-08T14:31:35.956000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
請許輔主任。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-07-08T14:31:35.956000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-07-08T14:31:40.724000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-07-08T14:31:40.724000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-07-08T14:31:41.827000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
主任，你比較少來哦。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.625 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-07-08T14:31:44.133000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-07-08T14:31:54.156000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
我想是這樣，執政團隊重視食安，所以特別設立了食安辦公室，對不對？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.862 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-07-08T14:31:55.797000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-07-08T14:32:08.669000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
那我想要請問一下，在這個事件裡，包括有關食品安全法的修正，辦公室扮演的角色是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-07-08T14:32:08.669000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-07-08T14:32:16.951000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
也就是說，我簡單講，今天這個議題，我請你上來答詢，是OK的嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.962 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-07-08T14:32:18.182000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-07-08T14:32:18.522000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
OK啊。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-07-08T14:32:18.842000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-07-08T14:32:19.163000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
OK，好。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-07-08T14:32:21.124000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-07-08T14:32:43.259000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
舉例來講，這次7月1日收到通報之後，我就立刻要跟院內長官上報，然後我們收指示，一樣會督導，請食藥署每天一次到兩次把最新的情形提供上報。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.949 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-07-08T14:32:43.839000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-07-08T14:32:57.575000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
上面有任何問題、想知道什麼，都會先問我們食安辦，這個狀況過往的情況可能是怎麼樣，因為可以幫忙長官們了解情形。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.939 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-07-08T14:32:57.915000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-07-08T14:32:58.436000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
你們督導他們嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-07-08T14:32:58.436000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-07-08T14:32:59.436000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
對、對、對，到這禮拜就開始跨部會了。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.214 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-07-08T14:32:58.436000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-07-08T14:33:04.283000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
你們督導他們，有沒有包括食安法修法的部分？ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-07-08T14:33:04.283000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-07-08T14:33:16.655000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
我們是還沒有到修食安法。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-07-08T14:33:16.655000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-07-08T14:33:22.699000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
平常的時候，我們平常就會有一些討論，但是法規沒有。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-07-08T14:33:22.719000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-07-08T14:33:25.460000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
你們有做法規的相關研究討論嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-07-08T14:33:25.460000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-07-08T14:33:36.187000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
我們是沒有，但事前討論修法的方向，這可以先討論，但是牽涉到真正修法的內容，特別是食安法，是沒有。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.952 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-07-08T14:33:36.507000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-07-08T14:33:40.749000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
好，我先問一個你可能比較清楚的問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-07-08T14:33:48.774000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-07-08T14:34:08.824000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
這次事件發生以後，衛福部曾經做過幾次宣示，第一次是有關第一層產品，也就是原料初步製成的食品，譬如大豆沙拉油下架。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.922 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-07-08T14:34:10.094000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-07-08T14:34:16.518000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
還有第二層產品，就是運用第一層再製的食品，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-07-08T14:34:16.518000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-07-08T14:34:17.518000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
再去作出來的食品，對。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-07-08T14:34:16.518000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-07-08T14:34:26.184000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
可是原料占比20%以上，這個事情你知道？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-07-08T14:34:26.184000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-07-08T14:34:27.685000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
是，我知道。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-07-08T14:34:27.685000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-07-08T14:34:33.269000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
我想請問，這是依據106年公布的處理原則來公布的。對。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-07-08T14:34:33.429000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-07-08T14:34:33.689000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
為什麼後來又有第三次公布？ |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-07-08T14:34:43.304000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-07-08T14:34:49.428000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
呃，其實我不知道為什麼又第三次，我知道的是在…… |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-07-08T14:34:49.628000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-07-08T14:34:51.629000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
那就怪了，你食品辦公室連這個…… |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.538 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-07-08T14:34:52.170000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-07-08T14:35:02.195000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
專家會議之後，確實在會議上有討論到，那個時候大概是用一個科學風險的概念在討論，那是第二次。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-07-08T14:35:03.316000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-07-08T14:35:12.702000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
我先表明我的立場，食安，包括剛剛盧縣一委員講的，就是全民最重視的東西。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.935 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-07-08T14:35:12.982000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-07-08T14:35:16.264000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
是，所以應該從嚴預防性的先下架。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.786 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-07-08T14:35:18.905000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-07-08T14:35:26.550000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
嗯，可是對於這一點我想不透啊，就是已經有一個處理原則，為什麼不依照處理原則？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-07-08T14:35:32.987000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-07-08T14:35:35.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
假如處理原則有問題…… |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-07-08T14:35:35.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-07-08T14:35:36.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
就要去檢討。 |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-07-08T14:35:35.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-07-08T14:35:40.231000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
為什麼食安辦公室這麼久不提醒衛福部？ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-07-08T14:35:42.452000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-07-08T14:35:44.314000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
懂我的意思嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-07-08T14:35:44.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-07-08T14:35:56.400000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
假如你們連這一部分都沒有負責到，那我還真的不知道食安辦公室到底成立的目的跟作用是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
許主任輔 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-07-08T14:35:56.420000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-07-08T14:35:56.520000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
了解，我們…… |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-07-08T14:35:56.520000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-07-08T14:35:56.561000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-07-08T14:35:56.641000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-07-08T14:36:07.930000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
我要講哦，最民怨的作法就是全部下架啦。對。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-07-08T14:36:08.990000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-07-08T14:36:16.092000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
這個誰都知道，可是有很多是有科學跟相關根據來做判斷的啊。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-07-08T14:36:17.712000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-07-08T14:36:21.473000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
所以你連為什麼會有第三次公布也不知道？ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-07-08T14:36:21.573000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-07-08T14:36:21.833000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
好吧，那請回好了。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-07-08T14:36:21.853000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-07-08T14:36:21.973000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
請衛福部部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-07-08T14:36:34.714000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-07-08T14:36:37.615000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
有請石部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-07-08T14:36:37.615000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-07-08T14:36:38.615000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
楊委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.25 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-07-08T14:36:38.235000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-07-08T14:36:38.335000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
部長好。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-07-08T14:36:39.515000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-07-08T14:36:55.738000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
我剛剛問了食安辦公室，對於行政機關不按照處理原則來做相關危機的處理，我是有意見的。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-07-08T14:36:56.798000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-07-08T14:37:08.932000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
簡單講，我覺得大家都很鄉愿，當然是下架越多越好啦，可是應不應該這麼做，是另外一回事。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.865 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-07-08T14:37:10.273000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-07-08T14:37:16.698000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
我當然也支持你們部裡開出了一億多元的罰款，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.826 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-07-08T14:37:18.600000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-07-08T14:37:27.688000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
這個重罰我也支持，因為食品的管控必須要很堅持。 |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-07-08T14:37:28.889000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-07-08T14:37:36.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
可是這跟一變再變、不按照處理原則做，是兩回事。 |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-07-08T14:37:38.085000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-07-08T14:37:40.847000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
今天找你上來，其實是想要簡單問幾個問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-07-08T14:37:41.027000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-07-08T14:38:04.038000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
法律上有義務才會有責任，我發現所有的食品從製程到銷售，衛福部這邊介入的法律，法律上課予你們的責任、義務並不多，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.943 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-07-08T14:38:04.838000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-07-08T14:38:12.543000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
我現在講的是法律責任，至於善後的責任，因為我們執政嘛，所有善後責任我們來承擔，這個沒有問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.951 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-07-08T14:38:13.003000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-07-08T14:38:24.984000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
問題是在食品安全衛生管理法中規定的，其實你們只能專案抽查，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.967 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-07-08T14:38:25.444000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-07-08T14:38:31.006000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
對，其實食安的維繫，是中央跟地方一起合作。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-07-08T14:38:31.066000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-07-08T14:38:31.226000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
我知道啦。 |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-07-08T14:38:31.786000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-07-08T14:38:39.068000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
多數是由中央訂一些規則，然後由地方執行，只有在專案的部分，會由中央啟動。 |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-07-08T14:38:39.068000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-07-08T14:38:45.276000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
其實多數是業者自我管理，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2026-07-08T14:38:45.276000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2026-07-08T14:39:10.788000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
因為在第七條就寫食品業者應該把產品原材料、半成品、成品自行或送交其他檢驗機關，這是課予食品業者自我檢驗，可能是3000萬元以上好像是半年一次還是多久嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.94 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2026-07-08T14:39:11.648000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2026-07-08T14:39:11.808000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
對，半年。 |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2026-07-08T14:39:12.389000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2026-07-08T14:39:15.530000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
半年一次，或者是送交檢驗單位。 |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2026-07-08T14:39:15.811000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2026-07-08T14:39:16.731000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
第三方檢驗。 |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2026-07-08T14:39:16.731000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2026-07-08T14:39:33.881000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
可是呢，我現在都是扣住食安法修法，因為今天的題目有兩個，食安法也要修法，建議部裡面跟署裡面要不要直接修，第一個就是送檢的機關有沒有通報義務？ |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0.984 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2026-07-08T14:39:37.120000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2026-07-08T14:39:40.502000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
我覺得送檢的第三公正方應該要…… |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2026-07-08T14:39:41.222000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2026-07-08T14:39:43.963000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
接受委託檢驗的第三方。 |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2026-07-08T14:39:45.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2026-07-08T14:39:50.346000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
對，有問題應該要直接通報給主管機關，這個目前沒有規定。對。 |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.84 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2026-07-08T14:39:51.646000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2026-07-08T14:39:54.888000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
請你們趕快，看能不能來得及這一次一起修。 |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2026-07-08T14:39:58.229000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2026-07-08T14:40:03.331000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
主席不好意思，我可能還要一點時間。 |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2026-07-08T14:40:03.611000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2026-07-08T14:40:16.977000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
還有一樣是第七條，我剛才講的，食品業者應該將產品原材料、半成品跟成品送驗，這是第七條第二款。 |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.878 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2026-07-08T14:40:18.018000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2026-07-08T14:40:31.624000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
第五款的規定是「食品業者於發現產品有危害食品衛生安全之虞」，這裡規定的只有產品，沒有原料。 |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
0.975 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2026-07-08T14:40:32.867000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2026-07-08T14:40:43.051000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
我查了一下，因為立法的時候是先立了第五款，第二款晚一年才立，可能一時沒有配合好。 |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0.972 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2026-07-08T14:40:43.971000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2026-07-08T14:41:04.687000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
等於上游廠商的產品供給下游，變成它的原料，縱使我發現原料有危害衛生安全，我是不用通報的。 |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.975 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2026-07-08T14:41:06.147000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2026-07-08T14:41:13.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
這個法律漏洞，我也希望部裡面跟署裡面趕快把它補起來，好不好？好。 |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2026-07-08T14:41:19.772000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2026-07-08T14:41:30.146000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
我剛才講了，善後是我們的責任，就是讓國人安心，這是執政者的責任。 |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2026-07-08T14:41:31.247000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2026-07-08T14:41:42.557000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
可是法律上有漏洞，是立法院的責任，立法院人力也不給足。 |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2026-07-08T14:41:43.198000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2026-07-08T14:42:03.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
我說真的啦，食品這麼多樣、這麼多品項，我不相信你們有能力去把關，只要遇到問題就當做政治事件，我覺得不應該啦。 |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2026-07-08T14:42:03.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2026-07-08T14:42:23.715000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
不過行政機關必須要把持住，就是我剛才講的，有處理原則、有要點在，就堅守原本有的法規範，堅守法規範總比一變再變好。 |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2026-07-08T14:42:24.536000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2026-07-08T14:42:25.156000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
好在哪裡？ |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2026-07-08T14:42:25.156000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2026-07-08T14:42:31.940000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
第一，維持了行政機關原本的專業性；第二，比較不會造成恐慌。 |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2026-07-08T14:42:33.061000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2026-07-08T14:42:41.986000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
其實你一變再變，就會把整個事情弄得更加人心惶惶。 |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2026-07-08T14:42:41.986000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2026-07-08T14:42:42.867000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
部長，你懂我的意思嗎？了解。 |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2026-07-08T14:42:42.867000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2026-07-08T14:42:58.060000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
我剛剛的修法建議，當然我也可以提，可是我怕我提，沒有辦法併入這一次，你們提，速度可能會快一點。 |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[85].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[85].start |
2026-07-08T14:42:59.241000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[85].end |
2026-07-08T14:43:13.108000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].text |
這確實是一個漏洞，也就是說，泰山縱使知道它的原料有問題，它是不需要通報的，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[85].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[86].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[86].start |
2026-07-08T14:43:14.329000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[86].end |
2026-07-08T14:43:15.469000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].text |
還是要、還是要，都要通報。 |
| transcript.gazette[86].quality |
0.7 |
| transcript.gazette[87].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[87].start |
2026-07-08T14:43:15.469000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[87].end |
2026-07-08T14:43:21.420000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].text |
要通報？ |
| transcript.gazette[87].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[88].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[88].start |
2026-07-08T14:43:21.420000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[88].end |
2026-07-08T14:43:28.608000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].text |
法規在哪裡，沒有規定在同一條？ |
| transcript.gazette[88].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[89].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[89].start |
2026-07-08T14:43:28.608000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[89].end |
2026-07-08T14:43:30.170000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].text |
一樣，在第七條。 |
| transcript.gazette[89].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[90].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[90].start |
2026-07-08T14:43:30.170000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[90].end |
2026-07-08T14:43:32.032000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].text |
第五項要嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[90].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[91].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[91].start |
2026-07-08T14:43:32.032000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[91].end |
2026-07-08T14:43:32.793000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].text |
第五項是怎麼規定的？ |
| transcript.gazette[91].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[92].speaker |
石部長崇良 |
| transcript.gazette[92].start |
2026-07-08T14:43:37.557000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[92].end |
2026-07-08T14:43:49.542000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].text |
只要發現產品有危害衛生安全之虞，就要停止製造，而且要通報。 |
| transcript.gazette[92].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[93].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[93].start |
2026-07-08T14:43:49.542000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[93].end |
2026-07-08T14:43:50.542000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].text |
喔，要停止，而且要通報？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[93].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[94].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[94].start |
2026-07-08T14:43:49.542000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[94].end |
2026-07-08T14:43:51.983000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].text |
喔，那倒是我沒有看清楚。 |
| transcript.gazette[94].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[95].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[95].start |
2026-07-08T14:43:53.664000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[95].end |
2026-07-08T14:44:07.692000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].text |
好，反正我向來覺得有問題出現，盡可能從法律面來解決。 |
| transcript.gazette[95].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[96].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[96].start |
2026-07-08T14:44:08.012000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[96].end |
2026-07-08T14:44:16.517000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].text |
當然我也講了，不管是不是法律責任，只要執政，所有的善後就是我們的責任，好不好？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[96].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[97].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[97].start |
2026-07-08T14:44:17.018000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[97].end |
2026-07-08T14:44:17.178000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].text |
辛苦啊。 |
| transcript.gazette[97].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[98].speaker |
楊委員曜 |
| transcript.gazette[98].start |
2026-07-08T14:44:18.799000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[98].end |
2026-07-08T14:44:19.539000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].text |
謝謝主席。謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[98].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[99].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[99].start |
2026-07-08T14:44:20.039000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[99].end |
2026-07-08T14:44:22.610429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].text |
謝謝楊曜委員的質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[99].quality |
0.222 |
| transcript.gazette[100].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[100].start |
2026-07-08T14:44:22.910429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[100].end |
2026-07-08T14:44:25.767571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].text |
現在請李坤城委員質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[100].quality |
0 |
| gazette.lineno |
1607 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
楊委員曜：（14時31分）謝謝主席。我先請食安辦公室主任。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請許輔主任。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
許主任輔：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
楊委員曜：主任，你比較少來哦。我想是這樣，執政團隊重視食安，所以特別設立了食安辦公室，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
許主任輔：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
楊委員曜：那我想要請問一下，在這個事件裡，包括有關食品安全法的修正，辦公室扮演的角色是什麼？也就是說，我簡單講，今天這個議題，我請你上來答詢，是OK的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
許主任輔：OK啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
楊委員曜：OK，好。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
許主任輔：舉例來講，這次7月1日收到通報之後，我就立刻要跟院內長官上報，然後我們收指示，一樣會督導，請食藥署每天一次到兩次把最新的情形提供上報。上面有任何問題、想知道什麼，都會先問我們食安辦，這個狀況過往的情況可能是怎麼樣，因為可以幫忙長官們了解情形。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
楊委員曜：你們督導他們嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
許主任輔：對、對、對，到這禮拜就開始跨部會了。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
楊委員曜：你們督導他們，有沒有包括食安法修法的部分？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
許主任輔：我們是還沒有到修食安法。平常的時候，我們平常就會有一些討論，但是法規沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
楊委員曜：你們有做法規的相關研究討論嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
許主任輔：我們是沒有，但事前討論修法的方向，這可以先討論，但是牽涉到真正修法的內容，特別是食安法，是沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
楊委員曜：好，我先問一個你可能比較清楚的問題。這次事件發生以後，衛福部曾經做過幾次宣示，第一次是有關第一層產品，也就是原料初步製成的食品，譬如大豆沙拉油下架。還有第二層產品，就是運用第一層再製的食品，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
許主任輔：再去作出來的食品，對。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
楊委員曜：可是原料占比20%以上，這個事情你知道？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
許主任輔：是，我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
楊委員曜：我想請問，這是依據106年公布的處理原則來公布的。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
許主任輔：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
楊委員曜：為什麼後來又有第三次公布？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
許主任輔：呃，其實我不知道為什麼又第三次，我知道的是在…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
楊委員曜：那就怪了，你食品辦公室連這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
許主任輔：專家會議之後，確實在會議上有討論到，那個時候大概是用一個科學風險的概念在討論，那是第二次。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
楊委員曜：我先表明我的立場，食安，包括剛剛盧縣一委員講的，就是全民最重視的東西。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
許主任輔：是，所以應該從嚴預防性的先下架。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
楊委員曜：嗯，可是對於這一點我想不透啊，就是已經有一個處理原則，為什麼不依照處理原則？假如處理原則有問題…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
許主任輔：就要去檢討。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
楊委員曜：為什麼食安辦公室這麼久不提醒衛福部？懂我的意思嗎？假如你們連這一部分都沒有負責到，那我還真的不知道食安辦公室到底成立的目的跟作用是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
許主任輔：了解，我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
楊委員曜：是不是？我要講哦，最民怨的作法就是全部下架啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
許主任輔：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
楊委員曜：這個誰都知道，可是有很多是有科學跟相關根據來做判斷的啊。所以你連為什麼會有第三次公布也不知道？好吧，那請回好了。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][1] |
請衛福部部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
主席：有請石部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
石部長崇良：楊委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
楊委員曜：部長好。我剛剛問了食安辦公室，對於行政機關不按照處理原則來做相關危機的處理，我是有意見的。簡單講，我覺得大家都很鄉愿，當然是下架越多越好啦，可是應不應該這麼做，是另外一回事。我當然也支持你們部裡開出了一億多元的罰款，對不對？這個重罰我也支持，因為食品的管控必須要很堅持。可是這跟一變再變、不按照處理原則做，是兩回事。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][1] |
今天找你上來，其實是想要簡單問幾個問題。法律上有義務才會有責任，我發現所有的食品從製程到銷售，衛福部這邊介入的法律，法律上課予你們的責任、義務並不多，是不是？我現在講的是法律責任，至於善後的責任，因為我們執政嘛，所有善後責任我們來承擔，這個沒有問題。問題是在食品安全衛生管理法中規定的，其實你們只能專案抽查，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
石部長崇良：對，其實食安的維繫，是中央跟地方一起合作。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
楊委員曜：我知道啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
石部長崇良：多數是由中央訂一些規則，然後由地方執行，只有在專案的部分，會由中央啟動。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
楊委員曜：其實多數是業者自我管理，對不對？因為在第七條就寫食品業者應該把產品原材料、半成品、成品自行或送交其他檢驗機關，這是課予食品業者自我檢驗，可能是3000萬元以上好像是半年一次還是多久嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
石部長崇良：對，半年。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
楊委員曜：半年一次，或者是送交檢驗單位。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
石部長崇良：第三方檢驗。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
楊委員曜：可是呢，我現在都是扣住食安法修法，因為今天的題目有兩個，食安法也要修法，建議部裡面跟署裡面要不要直接修，第一個就是送檢的機關有沒有通報義務？我覺得送檢的第三公正方應該要…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
石部長崇良：接受委託檢驗的第三方。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
楊委員曜：對，有問題應該要直接通報給主管機關，這個目前沒有規定。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
石部長崇良：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
楊委員曜：請你們趕快，看能不能來得及這一次一起修。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][1] |
主席不好意思，我可能還要一點時間。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][2] |
還有一樣是第七條，我剛才講的，食品業者應該將產品原材料、半成品跟成品送驗，這是第七條第二款。第五款的規定是「食品業者於發現產品有危害食品衛生安全之虞」，這裡規定的只有產品，沒有原料。我查了一下，因為立法的時候是先立了第五款，第二款晚一年才立，可能一時沒有配合好。等於上游廠商的產品供給下游，變成它的原料，縱使我發現原料有危害衛生安全，我是不用通報的。這個法律漏洞，我也希望部裡面跟署裡面趕快把它補起來，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
石部長崇良：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
楊委員曜：我剛才講了，善後是我們的責任，就是讓國人安心，這是執政者的責任。可是法律上有漏洞，是立法院的責任，立法院人力也不給足。我說真的啦，食品這麼多樣、這麼多品項，我不相信你們有能力去把關，只要遇到問題就當做政治事件，我覺得不應該啦。不過行政機關必須要把持住，就是我剛才講的，有處理原則、有要點在，就堅守原本有的法規範，堅守法規範總比一變再變好。好在哪裡？第一，維持了行政機關原本的專業性；第二，比較不會造成恐慌。其實你一變再變，就會把整個事情弄得更加人心惶惶。部長，你懂我的意思嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
石部長崇良：了解。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
楊委員曜：我剛剛的修法建議，當然我也可以提，可是我怕我提，沒有辦法併入這一次，你們提，速度可能會快一點。這確實是一個漏洞，也就是說，泰山縱使知道它的原料有問題，它是不需要通報的，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
石部長崇良：還是要、還是要，都要通報。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
楊委員曜：要通報？法規在哪裡，沒有規定在同一條？ |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
石部長崇良：一樣，在第七條。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
楊委員曜：第五項要嗎？第五項是怎麼規定的？ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
石部長崇良：只要發現產品有危害衛生安全之虞，就要停止製造，而且要通報。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
楊委員曜：喔，要停止，而且要通報？ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
石部長崇良：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
楊委員曜：喔，那倒是我沒有看清楚。好，反正我向來覺得有問題出現，盡可能從法律面來解決。當然我也講了，不管是不是法律責任，只要執政，所有的善後就是我們的責任，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
石部長崇良：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
楊委員曜：辛苦啊。謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
石部長崇良：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
主席：謝謝楊曜委員的質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][1] |
現在請李坤城委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
242 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-5-26-18 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
邱慧洳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
范雲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
陳清龍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[33] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[34] |
洪毓祥 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
105 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2026-07-08 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1156101 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1156101_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學
與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查( 一) 委員廖偉翔等18 人擬具
「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員蘇清泉等23人擬具
「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛
生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條
條文修正草案」案、( 五) 委員翁曉玲等17 人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草
案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案、
(七)委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員黃健豪等16
人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛
生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案、(十)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五
條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正
草案」案、(十二)委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(十三)
委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員陳超明
等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員黃健豪等23人
擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十
六)委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王
育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」（詢答） |
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1156101_00002 |