| IVOD_ID |
169418 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169418 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-15-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-18T10:46:18+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-18T10:53:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:06:55 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/223c8978a2ec9f241227cb891ff30bbced00dd173c38e0afd817488d83a1324c56ce73f1065489d25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:46:18 - 10:53:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部部分。二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國土管理署及所屬、國家公園署及所屬、建築研究所部分。三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款內政部、國家公園署及所屬、國土管理署及所屬部分。四、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管作業基金－營建建設基金、實施平均地權基金。五、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金－研發及產業訓儲替代役基金、國土永續發展基金。六、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金－黃瑞景先生獎學基金、胡原洲女士獎(助)學基金部分。七、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會、財團法人威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復基金會、財團法人台灣建築中心、財團法人臺灣營建研究院、財團法人中央營建技術顧問研究社等5家財團法人115年度預算書案。八、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心115年度預算書案。九、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。十、審查委員李柏毅等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條及第七條條文修正草案」案。十二、審查委員許宇甄等19人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。十三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。【詢答及處理】、【所列預算提案於115年5月11日(一)中午12時前截止收件。】【第十三案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】） |
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主席有請部長部長好所有的官員辛苦了今天先談這個宗教團體以自然的名義登記不動產處理戰刑條例這個111年6月8日公布施行 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
62.276 |
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在當時啊本席也有提出這個條文的制定整個法律的條文的制定當時本席所提出的是五年五年當時沒有被採納兩年很快的就過去了所以113年8月7號修正又增加兩年那今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
63.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
89.287 |
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本席也有提出來再增加兩年六年當然到底要增加多久時間這個審查的時候我們大家可以再討論之所以會一直延剛才部長也有提到這個可能還會再延六年可能還會再延關鍵關鍵就是第六條 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
92.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
120.952 |
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本席當初啊114年4月15號所提的提案我有增加了這個這條條文第四條第四條條文的增加第二項第三項前項之不動產為耕地所以耕地的部分或是原住民保留地或是農舍 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
122.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
147.407 |
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用地的會受到這些限制所以應該要增加一個這樣的規定所以我先請這個內政部對於因為已經實施快四年了要滿四年了嘛所以你們應該去檢視去檢視到底有哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
149.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
173.722 |
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那原因是無法登記無法以這個戰刑條例來完成登記我認為這個是其中之一所以你們要去檢視去檢討不是只有一直延兩年延兩年延兩年再延兩年而是要去檢視現行的這些法律 |
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175.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
203.736 |
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條文有什麼樣需要去調所以這樣那個包括好包括這個第六條這項的第六款這項的第六款是一個關鍵的也是關鍵這不動產登記名義人或其前提繼承人同意書要減負而且人數要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
204.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
233.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因已共有人的二分之一超過二分之一當初本席這條條件是沒有列這項我認為這很需要討論需要討論而且不應該要這麼的嚴格這個也是要去內政部你要去檢視過去沒有辦法通過的是不是包含這個所以這個部分必須要去做修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
234.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
242.77 |
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不然會一直兩年兩年兩年會一直一直兩年這個就是一個第六條是一個關鍵的條文這個部長可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
249.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
265.651 |
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我們今天的修正條文是以第五條跟第七條為主那第六條的部分呢因為我們在審視過去的一個戰刑條例的處理上面我們認為在這一次的修法裡面可能不要去修正會比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
266.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
291.692 |
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我知道這次沒有也不會修啊這次不會修啊為什麼因為並沒有這條修正條我的本意是請內政部就過去已經提出來的沒有辦法通過的你們要跟地方政府因為你們不是直接受理的機關嘛你們要跟地方政府討提出提出是什麼原因是什麼原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
294.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
309.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個再舉例子 剛才部長有答覆的時候跟其他委員答覆的時候有提到相關會有那個民法的規定土地法的規定對不對但是我們定的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
310.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
339.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
也是法例可以法例明定不受民法的規定不受土地法的規定之限制我就舉例子齁時間的關係齁譬如說原住民身份法第六條不受民法第1059條第一項第四項第1078條第一項第二項即姓名條例第一條第二項規定之限制可以不受 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
341.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
369.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這種法例的制定很多案例這個遺產及正義稅法第34條也有非常多不受民法規定之限制非常多的法例都是這樣寫都是這樣寫所以這個部分要請這個內政部跟地方機關去好好的去檢視這個第六條應該要怎麼去修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
371.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
396.297 |
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可以嗎我這邊請市長跟您回應一下好不好好 謝謝委員關心那事實上我們跟地方州委已經有一個保持一個密切的聯繫針對個案的 剛才委員有特別提到個案有問題的譬如說他要出出證明沒辦法全部檢舉的我們要針對個案來個別輔導這是我們目前要搞在自己來輔導的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
398.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
409.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我現在要請內政部的從個案去檢討,然後成為通案成為通案要修法,該修的法律就要修 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-05-18T10:46:27.381000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-05-18T10:46:35.926000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
主席，有請部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
劉部長世芳 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-05-18T10:46:35.926000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-05-18T10:46:36.926000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
鄭委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-05-18T10:46:35.926000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-05-18T10:46:36.186000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
部長好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-05-18T10:46:37.327000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-05-18T10:46:39.928000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
所有的官員，辛苦了！ |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-05-18T10:46:42.430000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-05-18T10:47:10.893000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
先談宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例，本條例在111年6月8日公布施行，當時本席也有提出整個法律條文的制定，其中第五條本席所提出的是五年，但是沒有被採納。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.778 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-05-18T10:47:10.893000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-05-18T10:47:24.289000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
兩年很快就過去了，所以113年8月7日修正時又增加兩年，今天本席也有提出再增加兩年，成為六年。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-05-18T10:47:25.129000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-05-18T10:47:32.075000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
到底要增加多少時間，審查的時候我們可以再討論。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.952 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-05-18T10:47:32.075000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-05-18T10:47:47.287000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
這個期限之所以會一直延，剛才部長也有提到六年可能還會再延，關鍵就是第六條。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-05-18T10:47:50.486000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-05-18T10:48:26.315000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
本席當初（111年4月15日）的提案是增列第四條第三項，內容是「前項之不動產為耕地、原住民保留地或農舍用地者」會受到這些限制，所以應該要增加這樣的規定。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.887 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-05-18T10:48:28.776000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-05-18T10:48:56.754000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
我先請教內政部，這個暫行條例實施已近四年，你們應該去檢視到底有哪些原因是無法依這個暫行條例來完成登記的。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.735 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-05-18T10:48:56.754000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-05-18T10:49:28.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
我認為這是其中之一，所以你們要去檢視、去檢討，不是一直延兩年、延兩年、延兩年，再延兩年，而是要去檢視現行這些法律條文有什麼需要去調整的，包括第六條第一項第六款。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-05-18T10:49:30.248000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-05-18T10:49:44.805000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
這一款也是關鍵，就是規定要檢附不動產登記名義人或其全體繼承人同意書，而且人數應逾共有人的二分之一。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.739 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-05-18T10:49:47.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-05-18T10:50:09.051000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
當初本席的提案沒有列這一款，我認為這很需要討論，而且不應該這麼嚴格，這也是內政部要去檢視，過去沒有辦法通過的是不是包含這個部分。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.881 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-05-18T10:50:09.051000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-05-18T10:50:15.927000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
所以這個部分必須要去修正，不然一直兩年、兩年、兩年，那麼就會一直一直兩年。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.906 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-05-18T10:50:18.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-05-18T10:50:20.770000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
第六條是一個關鍵的條文，部長，可以嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
劉部長世芳 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-05-18T10:50:27.144000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-05-18T10:50:32.226000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
報告委員，我們今天的修正條文是以第五條跟第七條為主…… |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-05-18T10:50:32.226000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-05-18T10:50:33.387000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
我知道。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
劉部長世芳 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-05-18T10:50:33.387000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-05-18T10:50:43.631000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
第六條的部分，因為審視過去暫行條例的處理，我們認為在這一次的修法裡面可能不要去修正會比較好。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.953 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-05-18T10:50:44.926000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-05-18T10:50:48.967000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
我知道，這次也不會修，為什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-05-18T10:50:48.967000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-05-18T10:50:51.307000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
因為並沒有這一條修正條文。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-05-18T10:50:51.307000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-05-18T10:51:07.591000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
我的本意是請內政部就過去已經提出來卻沒有辦法通過的，因為你們不是直接受理的機關，你們要跟地方政府提出是什麼原因。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.981 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-05-18T10:51:12.568000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-05-18T10:51:38.196000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
再舉個例子，剛才部長跟其他委員答復的時候，有提到相關民法的規定、土地法的規定，但是我們定的也是法律，可以法律明定不受民法的規定、不受土地法的規定之限制。 |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.942 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-05-18T10:51:39.297000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-05-18T10:51:42.840000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
我就舉例子，時間的關係。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-05-18T10:51:42.840000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-05-18T10:51:57.011000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
譬如原住民身分法第六條規定「……不受民法第一千零五十九條第一項、第四項、第一千零七十八條第一項、第二項及姓名條例第一條第二項規定之限制」，可以不受限制。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.731 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-05-18T10:51:59.183000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-05-18T10:52:16.376000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
這種法律的制定有很多案例，遺產及贈與稅法第三十四條也有，非常多，不受民法規定之限制，非常多的法律都是這樣寫。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.837 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-05-18T10:52:16.376000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-05-18T10:52:29.604000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
所以這個部分要請內政部跟地方機關好好的檢視第六條應該要怎麼去修正，可以嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
劉部長世芳 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-05-18T10:52:29.604000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-05-18T10:52:37.408000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
我是不是請司長跟您回應一下，好不好？好。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.765 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
林司長振祿 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-05-18T10:52:37.668000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-05-18T10:52:38.148000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
謝謝委員關心。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
林司長振祿 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-05-18T10:52:38.969000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-05-18T10:52:54.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
事實上我們跟地方政府已經有保持密切的聯繫，針對個案的部分，剛才委員有提特別的個案有問題的，譬如他出資證明沒辦法全部檢具的，我們要針對個案個別輔導，這是我們目前要趕快積極輔導的。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.854 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-05-18T10:52:56.618000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-05-18T10:53:03.404000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
我現在要請內政部從個案去檢討，然後成為通案。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.952 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-05-18T10:53:04.505000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-05-18T10:53:07.827000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
成為通案要修法，該修的法律就要修，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
林司長振祿 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-05-18T10:53:08.327000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-05-18T10:53:10.898429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
好，我們會來研議。謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-05-18T10:53:11.198429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-05-18T10:53:13.198429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
謝謝鄭天財委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-05-18T10:53:13.498429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-05-18T10:53:17.212714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
接下來請鍾佳濱委員進行詢答。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0 |