| IVOD_ID |
168752 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168752 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-22-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-22T12:13:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-22T12:24:20+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:35 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5b5880b40c5769f1c7f91f1b3eab924563685f3e6e8cff855c95c54bff74e4161429c243362692245ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:13:45 - 12:24:20 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席就「我國海域放射性物質監測執行現況及未來因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、審查（一）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。（二）委員葉元之等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。【僅進行詢答；第(三)案，如經院會復議，則不予審查】） |
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好主席謝謝麻煩請陳主委有請陳主委好主委好主委本席有看到您今天上午接受我們委員的詢答那有也講了媒體剛剛寫說您也親口鬆口說核電是有助電價穩定我想這樣的一個態度本席予以肯定為什麼因為我們常講能源是選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
39.713 |
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55.334 |
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就是說我們大家都要用電所以電怎麼來很重要還有電的多樣性不要雞蛋放在同一個籃子裡也相對重要因為如果說雞蛋放在同一個籃子裡如同現在台灣目前95%如果晚間的時候都是火力發電 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.846 |
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72.683 |
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突然間來一個中東戰爭油氣煤上漲的情況其實對於我們的發電成本當然是大幅提升也因此從2月28號到現在不過短短的兩個月左右的時間其實中油也吸收很多的成本 |
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那如果說現在我們有相對的核能發電的話它是多樣化的一個分散風險也就可以有助於電價的穩定所以我想這樣子的一個過程裡面能夠聽到專業的意見我們是予以尊重也肯定 |
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121.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
另外一個部分我也看到就說有委員也問說現在河山場的重啟已經送到河安會那河安會我們現在這邊也講是說不會再加速對不對因為安全的問題把關非常重要我覺得這樣的一個態度我也肯定因為我還是強調河安絕對是最重要河安絕對最重要本席的選區有河一場雖然河一場現在是沒有在重啟的範圍內但是河安一樣重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
121.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
136.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好那但是另外一個部分是說那至少我們要用多久的時間你說沒有辦法加速那總是我們有一個預估的時間到目前為止有沒有所謂的時間表就什麼時候會審理完畢過程是不是簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
138.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我对实际表有很大的方面,有台电方面,要看它的报告的进度,报告老化审查的进度等等,还有我们对审查意见的回复等等, |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
158.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
還有我們現場視察的結果很多因素會影響到你是審查機關所以如果說台電送出來之後有缺失你要求更正改進台電有辦法更正有辦法改進再送進來你們再審查所以目前是沒有時間表因為世界各國核電廠重啟也不會有說大約平均多久時間可以重啟完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
182.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
191.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
是的 當然不會有一個固定時間表好 那就本席的了解你們會用多幾次的限定審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
193.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
215.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因為你現在可能是4月5月就要去限地審查是不是?所以已經安排了跟委員說明台電公司要提交的報告很多包括他先提出再再運轉計畫那後續還有台電公司所說的自主安全檢查就是法規規定的老化冰箍這些這部分的報告都還沒送到會裡面來所以確實要 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
217.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
234.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
審查時間還要看台電公司什麼時候提交給會裡面來審查那台電公司對會裡面的技術審查的意見回覆這些我都可以理解因為其實我們就拿最簡單的比喻來講譬如說一般的民間建築好之後要申請使用執照 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
235.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
256.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我也沒有辦法要求主管機關是說你什麼時候要發使用執照嘛一定是他把所有文件包括消防檢查包括什麼機電檢查全部都送進來合格之後你才有辦法核發嘛所以我這邊不會為難我只是說要求核安會一定要本於專業來去做把關可是另外一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
257.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
281.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
昨天賴清德總統也接見這個環團其實重啟核電這件事情為什麼說民進黨政府轉彎就是因為賴清德總統在兩個月前他先在一個公開的場合講是說台電已經要送進來了所以說大家才嘩然就說原來現在民進黨政府核電轉彎即便事後他又講說沒有還是要有三前提但是現在台電主動送進來是事實而且這是主動送進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
284.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
302.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
賴總統昨天還是在重提說要三條件一個和安無虞一個核廢有解一個社會有共識那我想要再就教一下我們專業的意見和安無虞沒有問題大家都同意甚至我更要求是說不能加速我們應該要本於專業和安處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
303.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
327.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
社會有共識到目前為止現在百分之六十七十的民調都已經站在支持台灣要有穩定物價核能發電的一個立場上面因為核電是低碳穩定低價的發電方式那另外核廢油解這一個就是大家現在在想是說到底現在民進黨政府有沒有在做最終處置場的選定 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
330.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
352.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
還是這一題就是大家打模糊場主委因為我們現在合費料 合一的合費料還在放在我們合一廠啊然後告訴我們都是這個叫做中級主政廠中間的中啊 不是最終的中啊那大家想說那合費有解你的意思是賴清的政府你要找 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
353.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
362.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
從上任蔡英文政府的時候就要講說要2025廢核家園要找最終處成場最終極的處成場那到目前為止有在做討論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
364.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
387.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
包委員 那個目前經濟部他是先著重幹事儲存的作業那後續呢他也成立了專案辦公室在做選址的工作這個幾年前就做了但本身現在想問的是賴清德總統一而再再而三面對到這個國際壓力大家都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
388.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
403.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
或是說我們能源議題大家都需要用電這個本期看中明依舊講所以我是用一個很理性跟很科學的方式來去講但我想問的是說到底現在政府有沒有做實事就是說他一直強調核廢有解那他的解是什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
405.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
431.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
核安會的網站我也去看過核安會也有一個網站報告是講是說國際現在大多數的核廢料採取最後有一個方法叫做深度挖掘有沒有就是找一個地方然後但是很深幾百公尺的挖掘讓它跟民眾土壤水質都沒有任何這個是核安會官網上面的一個報告一個說明那我們有沒有想說這樣的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
432.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
458.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那還有就是說這樣的方式還是要面臨到一個問題是說那到底位置在哪裡到目前有沒有做這樣的討論那個台電是有一個計畫在執行中那最大的問題還是剛才委員所提到的選址的問題因為有選址這樣的一個困難所以經濟部他才成立專案辦公室先來做立法工作然後後續來推動那有在推動有進度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
459.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
481.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
不然我覺得賴清德總統這樣子每一次都跟我們講這我都已經快會背了但是哪一件事情不重要可是重點是不能每一次都用口號講完然後這一題永遠無解可是我們核三場持續已經又要再重啟那這樣不就自打嘴巴嗎就是說一方面那個時候恐嚇人民講說核廢料很恐怖啊最好是放你家放我家 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
482.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
499.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有沒有然後就是很反制的做法好那這個也另一個部分但另外一個部分是說現在重啟核三廠是事實嘛那重啟核三廠已經報進來了那我們同步核廢有解那解要怎麼解 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
501.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
521.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
還是你們的審查會不會審查是說那核三廠如果說再發電那現在核一廠核二廠我們的核廢料放哪裡最終儲存廠在哪裡這會不會列為我們審查的項目之一在我們的剛才講的那個後段的安全審查裡面我們有叫台電公司要說明這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
522.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
550.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
要說明這部分對所以台電在核三廠重啟的時候就會把最終儲存廠給整個核廢料管理含最終處置這部分他們要說明但目前本席的理解他還是打馬虎眼啊他們只有講說中啊中間的中啊所以說像本席的核一廠裡面也有啊乾式儲存的相關還是放在核一廠啊但是最終在哪裡最終的終FinalFinal到底要用什麼樣的方式沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
553.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
565.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
方式其實是跟剛才委員所提的這個方式是一樣的但是困難的地方就是選址solution有但是location沒有是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
567.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
585.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 主委 本席這樣講完啦 我只想是說就是我們很理性科學因為我很敬重您願意再投入公職來為大家來服務但本席的提到真的 如果說真的有機會的話也跟上位者有權利決策的人真的也建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
586.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
596.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
就是說要務實大家務實面對但不是每一次面對環團講一套好聽的話然後面對產業講一套然後面對在野黨講一套 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
601.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
619.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我是剛剛說這樣子就不是一個健康的態度所以我一開眾秘密就很肯定您今天願意講出說核電有助電價穩定這樣的一個說法因為這跟國人跟國際上的認知確實是相符合這也是現在國際上的趨勢好不好 有沒有補充 各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
621.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
634.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是的 謝謝各位 謝謝委員關心好 那就感謝本席會持續追這議題那我也關心我們的合一廠的最終核廢料的部分那我也希望真的我們一起務實地往前邁進好不好 謝謝好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-04-22T12:13:54.904000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-04-22T12:13:57.065000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
好，謝謝主席，麻煩請陳主委。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-04-22T12:13:57.845000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-04-22T12:14:04.867000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
有請陳主委。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-04-22T12:14:05.407000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-04-22T12:14:05.427000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
主委好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
陳主任委員明真 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-04-22T12:14:05.627000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-04-22T12:14:05.627000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.333 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-04-22T12:14:05.827000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-04-22T12:14:21.052000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
主委，本席有看到您今天上午接受我們委員的詢答時講了，媒體剛剛寫您也鬆口說核電是有助電價穩定，我想對於這樣的一個態度，本席予以肯定，為什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.952 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-04-22T12:14:21.052000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-04-22T12:14:57.663000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
因為我們常講能源是選擇，我們大家都要用電，所以電怎麼來很重要，還有電的多樣性，不要把雞蛋放在同一個籃子裡也相對重要，因為如果雞蛋放在同一個籃子裡，如同現在臺灣目前晚間的時候95%都是火力發電，突然間來一個中東戰爭，油、氣、煤上漲的情況其實對於我們的發電成本當然是大幅提升，也因此從2月28號到現在，不過短短的兩個月時間，其實中油也吸收很多的成本。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.987 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-04-22T12:14:58.368000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-04-22T12:15:08.520000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
如果說現在我們有相對的核能發電的話，它是多樣化地分散風險，也就可以有助於電價的穩定。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.974 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-04-22T12:15:09.261000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-04-22T12:15:15.888000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
所以我想這樣子的一個過程裡面，能夠聽到專業的意見，我們是予以尊重也肯定。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-04-22T12:15:16.929000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-04-22T12:15:29.514000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
另外一個部分，我也看到有委員詢問現在核三廠的重啟案已經送到核安會，因為安全把關的問題非常重要，核安會這邊現在也說不會再加速，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.639 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-04-22T12:15:32.956000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-04-22T12:15:39.558000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
這樣的態度我也肯定，我還是強調核安絕對最重要、核安絕對最重要！ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-04-22T12:15:40.078000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-04-22T12:15:46.061000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
本席的選區有核一廠，雖然核一廠現在是沒有在重啟的範圍內，但是核安一樣重要。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.853 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-04-22T12:15:47.982000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-04-22T12:15:57.028000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
另外一個部分是至少我們要用多久的時間……你說沒有辦法加速，但總是我們有一個預估的時間，到目前為止有沒有所謂的時間表？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.981 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-04-22T12:15:57.929000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-04-22T12:16:00.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
就是什麼時候會審理完畢？ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-04-22T12:16:01.151000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-04-22T12:16:01.331000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
是不是簡單說明一下過程？ |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
陳主任委員明真 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-04-22T12:16:04.544000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-04-22T12:16:27.267000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
這個時間表有很大的方面要看台電報告的進度，包括能耗檢查進度等等，還有我們對審查意見的回復等等，還有我們現場視察的結果，很多因素都是會影響到的。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.652 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-04-22T12:16:27.407000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-04-22T12:16:36.834000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
你是審查機關，如果台電報告送出來之後有缺失，你要求更正、改進，台電也有辦法更正、有辦法改進，再送進來，你們再審查？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.88 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-04-22T12:16:37.334000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-04-22T12:16:39.036000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
所以目前是沒有時間表？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
陳主任委員明真 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-04-22T12:16:39.036000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-04-22T12:16:40.557000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
沒有確定的時間表。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-04-22T12:16:40.557000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-04-22T12:16:47.042000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
因為其實世界各國核電廠重啟也不會有大約平均多久的時間可以重啟完畢？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.906 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
陳主任委員明真 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-04-22T12:16:47.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-04-22T12:16:50.622000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
是的，當然不會有一個固定時間表。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-04-22T12:16:50.922000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-04-22T12:16:56.055000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
好，本席也了解，你們會有幾次的現地審查？ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.765 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-04-22T12:16:58.240000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-04-22T12:17:01.121000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
因為你現在可能是4月、5月就要去現地審查，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
陳主任委員明真 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-04-22T12:17:01.121000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-04-22T12:17:04.002000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
對，我請高組長回答。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-04-22T12:17:04.002000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-04-22T12:17:04.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
所以已經安排了？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
高組長斌 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-04-22T12:17:05.163000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-04-22T12:17:30.956000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
跟委員說明，台電公司要提交的報告很多，包括他先提出再運轉計畫，後續還有台電公司所說的自主安全檢查，就是法規規定的老化評估，這部分的報告都還沒送到會裡面來，所以確實的審查時間還要看台電公司什麼時候提交給會裡面來審查，台電公司對會裡面技術審查的意見回復…… |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.932 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-04-22T12:17:32.477000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-04-22T12:17:53.207000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
是，這些我都可以理解，其實我們就拿最簡單的比喻來講，譬如說一般的民間建築好了之後要申請使用執照，他也沒有辦法要求主管機關說你什麼時候要發使用執照，一定是他把所有文件，包括消防檢查、包括機電檢查等全部都送進來合格之後，你才有辦法核發嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-04-22T12:17:53.707000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-04-22T12:17:59.848000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
所以我這邊不會為難，只是要求核安會一定要本於專業去做把關。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-04-22T12:17:59.848000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-04-22T12:18:14.834000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
可是另外一個部分，昨天賴清德總統也接見環團，其實重啟核電這件事情，為什麼會說民進黨政府轉彎，就是因為賴清德總統在兩個月前先在一個公開場合說台電已經要送進來了嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-04-22T12:18:15.114000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-04-22T12:18:26.519000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
所以大家才譁然說：原來現在民進黨政府核電轉彎，即便事後他又講說「沒有、沒有、沒有，還是要有三前提」，但是現在台電主動送進來是事實，而且這是主動送進來。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.908 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-04-22T12:18:29.040000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-04-22T12:18:37.402000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
好，賴總統昨天還是重提說要三條件：一個是核安無虞、一個是核廢有解、一個是社會有共識。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.865 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-04-22T12:18:37.582000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-04-22T12:19:20.883000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
我想要再就教一下你們專業的意見，核安無虞沒有問題，大家都同意，甚至我更要求說不能加速，我們應該要本於專業、核安處理；社會有共識，到目前為止，現在60%、70%的民調都已經站在支持臺灣要有穩定物價、核能發電的一個立場上面，因為核電是低碳、穩定、低價的發電方式；另外，核廢有解的部分，這一個就是大家現在所想的，到底現在民進黨政府有沒有在做最終處置場的選定，還是說這一題大家打模糊仗？主委。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-04-22T12:19:22.664000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-04-22T12:19:47.959000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
我們核一的核廢料現在還放在核一廠啊，然後告訴我們這個叫做中期貯存場，中間的中，不是最終的終，那大家就會問：你的核廢有解的意思是說賴清德政府你要找……從蔡英文政府上任的時候就講2025要非核家園、要找最終貯存場，到目前為止有在做討論嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.738 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
陳組長文泉 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-04-22T12:19:49.918000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-04-22T12:20:03.426000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
報告委員，目前經濟部是先著重乾式貯存的作業，後續他也成立了專案辦公室在做選址的工作，還有…… |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.829 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-04-22T12:20:04.347000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-04-22T12:20:23.102000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
這個幾年前就做了，但本席現在想問的是賴清德總統一而再、再而三面對……國際壓力大家都有，或是說這個能源議題，大家都需要用電，本席開宗明義也講了，所以我是用一個很理性跟很科學的方式去講這件事，我想問的是到底現在政府有沒有做實事？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-04-22T12:20:23.942000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-04-22T12:20:28.147000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
就是說他一直強調核廢有解，那他的解是什麼意思？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-04-22T12:20:30.580000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-04-22T12:20:41.445000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
核安會的網站我也去看過，核安會也有一個網站，有報告是說現在國際大多數的核廢料採取方式，有一個方法叫做深度挖掘。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.885 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-04-22T12:20:41.706000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-04-22T12:20:56.453000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
就是找一個很深的地方，挖掘幾百公尺，讓它跟民眾、土壤、水質都沒有任何接觸，這個是核安會官網上面的一個報告說明，我們有沒有想要採用這樣的方式？ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.841 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-04-22T12:20:57.553000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-04-22T12:21:04.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
還有，這樣的方式還是要面臨到一個問題，即到底位置在哪裡？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-04-22T12:21:04.196000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-04-22T12:21:05.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
目前為止有沒有做這樣的討論？ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
陳組長文泉 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-04-22T12:21:08.257000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-04-22T12:21:22.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
台電是有一個計畫在執行中，最大的問題還是如剛才委員所提到的選址問題，因為有選址上的一個困難，所以經濟部才成立專案辦公室，希望來做立法工作，後續再來推動。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.914 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-04-22T12:21:22.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-04-22T12:21:23.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
那有在推動嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-04-22T12:21:23.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-04-22T12:21:23.723000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
有進度嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-04-22T12:21:24.743000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-04-22T12:21:28.905000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
不然賴清德總統每一次都跟我們講這些，我都已經快會背了。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-04-22T12:21:29.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-04-22T12:21:35.267000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
但是哪一件事情不重要，重點是不能每一次都用口號講，講完後這一題永遠無解！ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.97 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-04-22T12:21:35.687000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-04-22T12:21:41.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
可是我們核三廠已經又要再重啟，這樣不就自打嘴巴嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-04-22T12:21:41.849000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-04-22T12:21:47.928000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
一方面當時恐嚇人民說核廢料很恐怖、最好是放你家、放我家，有沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-04-22T12:21:49.028000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-04-22T12:21:50.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
就是很反智的做法。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-04-22T12:21:50.969000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-04-22T12:22:04.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
好，這是另一個部分，但另外一個部分是現在重啟核三廠是事實，既然重啟核三廠的案子已經報進來了，我們同步核廢有解，那要怎麼解？ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.891 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-04-22T12:22:06.121000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-04-22T12:22:18.307000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
還是你們的審查會不會說如果核三廠再發電，現在核一廠、核二廠的核廢料放哪裡、最終貯存場在哪裡，這會不會列為你們審查的項目之一？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.912 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
陳組長文泉 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-04-22T12:22:19.388000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-04-22T12:22:26.852000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
在我們剛才講的後段的安全審查裡面，我們有叫台電公司說明這部分。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-04-22T12:22:27.412000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-04-22T12:22:28.913000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
要說明這部分？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-04-22T12:22:28.913000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-04-22T12:22:32.654000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
所以台電在核三廠重啟的時候就會把最終貯存場…… |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
陳組長文泉 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-04-22T12:22:33.315000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-04-22T12:22:35.956000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
他們要說明整個核廢料管理含最終處置的這部分。 |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-04-22T12:22:37.336000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-04-22T12:22:55.104000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
但目前本席的理解，他們還是打馬虎眼，只有講說「中」，中間的「中」，所以說像本席的核一廠裡面也有，乾式貯存還是放在核一廠，但是最終在哪裡、最終的「終」，final到底要用什麼樣的方式？ |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.961 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-04-22T12:22:55.585000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-04-22T12:22:55.905000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
沒有啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
陳組長文泉 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-04-22T12:22:58.148000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-04-22T12:23:07.793000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
方式其實是跟剛才委員所提的這個方式是一樣的，但是困難的地方就是選址。 |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-04-22T12:23:08.013000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-04-22T12:23:10.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
solution有，但是location沒有，是不是這樣？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-04-22T12:23:12.227000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-04-22T12:23:49.014000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
好，主委，本席講這些只是想說，我們很理性、科學，因為我也很敬重您願意再投入公職來為大家服務，但本席也提到，如果說真的有機會，也要跟有權力決策的上位者建議，就是說要務實、大家務實面對，但不是每一次面對環團講一套好聽的話，面對產業講一套，面對在野黨講一套，我是覺得這樣子就不是一個健康的態度。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.884 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-04-22T12:23:49.394000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:02.989000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
所以我開宗明義就很肯定您今天願意講出核電有助電價穩定這樣的說法，因為這跟國人、跟國際上的認知確實是相符合的，這也是現在國際上的趨勢，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:03.230000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:03.570000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
主委有沒有要補充的？ |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.556 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
陳主任委員明真 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:06.339000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:07.879000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
是的，謝謝委員關心。 |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
洪委員孟楷 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:08.500000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:18.944000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
好，那就感謝，本席會持續追這個議題，我也關心我們核一廠核廢料追蹤的部分，我也真的希望我們一起務實地往前邁進，好不好？謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
陳主任委員明真 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:19.244000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:19.264000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:19.764000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:24.621143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
好，謝謝洪孟楷委員的詢答，也謝謝陳主委。 |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:24.921143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:28.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:28.364000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:31.506857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:31.806857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:34.949714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
林倩綺、林倩綺、林倩綺委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:35.249714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:38.392571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:38.692571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:41.835429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
林楚茵、林楚茵、林楚茵委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:42.135429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:45.278286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
蔡易餘、蔡易餘、蔡易餘委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:45.578286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:50.721143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
今天詢答登記的委員已發言完畢，詢答結束。 |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:51.021143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2026-04-22T12:24:59.306857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
報告及詢答完畢，委員所提的書面資料、相關資料均列入紀錄，刊登公報。 |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2026-04-22T12:24:59.606857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2026-04-22T12:25:10.464000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
對於委員質詢時要求提供之相關資料以及未能夠答復的部分，請相關機關儘速以書面答詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2026-04-22T12:25:10.764000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2026-04-22T12:25:15.906857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
原子能法相關的修正草案另定期繼續審查。 |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2026-04-22T12:25:16.206857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2026-04-22T12:25:21.921143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
報告委員會，今日的議程處理完畢，現在散會，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2026-04-22T12:25:22.221143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2026-04-22T12:25:23.364000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
散會（12時25分） |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0 |