| IVOD_ID |
168444 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168444 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-23-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-13T09:54:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-13T10:05:53+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5655ee4938da65e1531d183798c44678413783e2c4a522d3291cfc8066c9e4d95f9a43187052e4375ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
魯明哲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:54:20 - 10:05:53 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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魯委員明哲 |
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陳主任委員金德 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
6.158 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 謝謝主席有請我們工程會陳主委請陳主委陳主委你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
18.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
45.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這個請教一下 因為最近有看到你們這個修名發新聞稿但我想到在今年年初的時候特別在交通委員會針對你修法的一個內容曾經排過一個專案報告那我那時候也跟你討論這個我想所有的委員針對所有修法的內容尤其是這個刪除三家 這個第一次招標三家這樣的一個限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
46.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
66.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我還記得你那時候是蠻多想法的也頗為堅持那當然因為我知道那不光是你啦在任何修法的過程中任何機關它都有很多醞釀的過程很多收集訊息的過程很多跟產業界溝通的過程但我覺得從今天我們1月5號到4月10號將近四個月的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
聽到答案啦 答案就是 這個先不做了那我也覺得很奇怪 因為你當時講的說包括美國公文都沒這樣的一個標準包括很多很多的理由啊 是不是不見了那我也看到你的報告特別想 特別說這一陣子當然預告期嘛 聽聽大家意見 是第二階段聽嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
115.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那各界建設性的觀點我的天啊以前我們覺得你覺得那個建設性觀點形成了這個的改變它最主要你在業界凝聚了哪幾個建設性的觀點把你1月5號曾經得諸位說的一些論點把它改變了麻煩你簡要說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
146.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
其實我們採購法的修正過程醞釀很久了那也都含詢各機關就是辦採購的機關大致上都沒有什麼反對意見那麼也去拜訪跟這個相關的工協會這個相關工會大概除了少部分一些修正之外沒有什麼特別的意見所以我們嘗試去做預告 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
147.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
171.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
預告的部分回來也是贊成則居多啦但是後來沒想到這個被聚焦在三家改為一家認為這個是要圖利廠商甚至認為工程會這個叫放水那這個這個這個就太這個這個指責就太大了這個指責太大那我們認為與其這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
174.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
196.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
跟部分人士的意見相左應推啊那不如我們這個再再更凝聚各界贊成的意見因為贊成的意見呢比聲音比較小這機關啊我們這個工程會修法的內容所以那另外呢我們的確很認真的在想是不是三家改為一家的確會造成某些這個缺口 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
197.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
225.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
或是某些執行上機關如果有些不肖的機關辦理採購人員造成他的方便所以我們也虛心的認為我們必須來認真思考陳主委其實這個各界的意見當天大概我聽到非常非常多的委員大概已經幫你蒐集了相關的意見我記得我那天特別說了三家如果變成一家第一次就可以招標 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
226.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
255.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
在效率上我覺得有兩種人非常開心第一個是優質廠商他不要被卡這麼久我就只有幾家可以做這樣的大的工程被卡到那個預算都要調幾倍那第二開心的就是劣質廠商哇以前要喬辦天華這一支一支搞定所以確實有困難啊是可以理解的但我想請問一下我看到你們4月10號你們的一個新聞稿回覆啊特別講了第二段最後幾個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
257.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
279.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你會持續整合意見就整體影響進行長期的配套評估充分凝聚共識在這個推行修法的一個程序因為坦白講因為過去看到有任何單位新聞稿這個部分就是不是進入修法期就法律進入休眠期休眠期 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
281.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
297.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你現在是包括其他的部分 你現在要長期評估你現在大概什麼時候會提出方案你們要先送行政院 你有沒有什麼樣一個三家這個部分排除掉這樣的一個情況之下有沒有一個時間表還是真的進入休眠期 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
297.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
326.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
因為這次修法條文非常多啦那有些要修法的內容也是來自於大院的建議啦在本委員會的這個建議那被聚焦在三家改為一家這個是相當可惜啦所以我們寧可把這個各界的意見凝聚好了之後再來辦理我們預計希望能夠在今年年底之前把這些工作做好之後那麼會重新預告啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
327.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
356.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好這個主委其實剛剛我們平常一般人的擔心確實三家變一家因為現在你就覺得我們有很多的防弊機制有時候那個標案我們說真的我講真的大家全民都看不下去你看看這個3月26號27號一下出來兩個新聞我都覺得很離譜當然這中間到底有什麼採購法或者相關的一個採購制度法規面 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
356.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
385.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
是不是有缺漏第二個是到底人發生問題再來第四個是流程 檢核 集核 驗收到底是發生什麼問題警用房貸背心是拼裝貨我覺得這很離譜這不是個案它從2019年弄到2022年才發生那這個事情當然講說這是這個業管單位的事情 驗中單位的事情可是你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
386.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
400.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
警政署 移民署 校政署 台灣銀行 防彈備心全部跨單位 跨機構我坦白講工程會如果你沒有跨單位去用心的話你真的今天感覺說防彈備心 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
403.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
420.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
各位這個主委我們所有的員警同仁穿上了防彈背心他覺得很安心他這份信任不是來自於這個廠商他是信任這個國家的制度信任工程會採購法一定可以給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
421.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
439.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
非常有Quality對不對Qualify很棒的能夠保護我們生命的結果你到最後答案一撥出來像現在有些案子正在準備起訴我說真的啊你還沒判決保固期已經過了準備換下一件了像這樣的真的很離譜欸可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
440.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
469.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
改製造日期可以沒有防水的功能可以提供假的檢測報告然後非原廠的一個證明書然後可以七稿八稿弄完這個我是覺得這個請問一下是哪一個處還是哪個單位我先問一下這個2019年他上網招標嘛那剛開始標了大家也穿了也不知道發生什麼事了我請問一下2020年2021年沒有東昌事發之前這個廠商的履歷 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
470.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
477.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好不好啊在你們的1.3萬家這兩家廠商的履歷是不是優良廠商啊你們要注意這件事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
480.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
502.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我跟你講你們累積了10年1.3萬目前你們的資料庫有兩廠商像這個廠商你們回去查啦我回去自己查如果你這樣子搞一個大慕容大笑話你說那個是廠 結果後面的人看到2020年 2021年又要找這樣防彈背心哇 終於找到我們工程會認定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
504.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
525.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
優良廠商履歷很棒的我覺得這個你們要特別注意那下面像陸軍這個26套反制系統我都不知道為什麼這麼多渣男廠商他跟這些這麼厲害這麼厲害我講很多真的技術到位的一個廠商他也說根本不敢去飆你知道嗎他覺得很深啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
526.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
528.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以我們本來政府採購法修正裡面要擴大停權範圍就是要解決這些渣男廠商的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
549.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
567.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們其中有一個修法是要針對比方說你去公司更名或者是同一個治安人他登記了很多家公司過去是沒有管制的我們再透過修法來擴大停權範圍就是要解決碰到這種渣男廠商的問題而且這個問題也是大院一再要求的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
568.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
591.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
其實這個我想這真的非常嚴重因為你一件事情起頭根本沒有做好後面所謂的審計監察司法調查我覺得都是後面在補強重點是穿著這樣的完全不合格過期的這些遠景同仁你知道他們現在身上我想我們朝偉在這邊他們身上超多自己買的東西你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
593.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
598.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我說奇怪我就問了警政署就有相關的配備你幹嘛要買這個買那個你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
600.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
626.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
唯一的特色啊 奇怪 我們招標的都是特別貴但是品質沒有特別好那我結論啦 就這樣的齁政府採購法 我覺得很多問題但是三大問題現在看到這麼多的一個情況你的檢核驗收的制度失靈這些假的證明 假的原廠證明到最後有沒有一個回溯追蹤的制度我拿那個證明 對不對 我不要等到 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
627.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
643.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
司法調查他發現嘛這證明是不是說 好 OK我怎麼看得懂他造假的他回溯到原廠寄給原廠或者我不太清楚現在在各個機關有沒有這種double check的一個制度也不能讓你行政院公共工程委員會說幫我判讀嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
645.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
674.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我倒是覺得已經招標完成了好一切照制度走但是有些相關重要的發生這麼多次對不對包括檢驗包括相關你覺得我覺得要一個回溯去跟原單位去追蹤的一個機制那包括你黑名單派出機制這個我已經說了很多次還有現在的罰則旅遊管理我看到你修法很多啦我們是希望你最後做個結論啦好不好修法之後你希望預期怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
675.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
694.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們把過去這些讓這些不好的廠商有機會一再的投機得標這些路都要把他把他這個擋起來了那相關的問題我們希望有機會在政府採購法裡面做修正而且獲得這個大院的支持好 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-04-13T09:54:26.919000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-04-13T09:54:28.801000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席，有請工程會陳主委。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-04-13T09:54:29.021000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-04-13T09:54:29.141000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請陳主委。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-04-13T09:54:29.141000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-04-13T09:54:30.141000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
委員早。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-04-13T09:54:29.542000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-04-13T09:55:10.463000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
陳主委，請教一下，因為最近有看到你們發新聞稿說明，但我想到在今年年初的時候，特別在交通委員會，針對你修法的內容，曾經排過一個專案報告，我那時候也跟你討論，我想所有委員針對所有修法內容，尤其是刪除第一次招標三家這樣的限制，我還記得你那時候是蠻多想法的，也頗為堅持。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.983 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-04-13T09:55:11.744000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-04-13T09:55:35.982000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
當然我知道不光是你，在任何修法的過程中，任何機關都有很多醞釀的過程、很多蒐集訊息的過程、很多跟產業界溝通的過程，但我覺得從1月5日到4月10日將近4個月的時間，結果聽到的答案就是這個先不做了。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.928 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-04-13T09:55:36.823000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-04-13T09:55:38.243000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
我也覺得很奇怪！ |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-04-13T09:55:38.583000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-04-13T09:55:44.965000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
因為你當時講，包括美國、歐盟，都沒這樣的標準，包括很多很多理由。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.926 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-04-13T09:55:45.765000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-04-13T09:55:46.545000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
是不是都不見了？ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-04-13T09:55:47.325000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-04-13T09:55:58.168000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
我也看到你的報告特別說，這一陣子是預告期，聽聽大家的意見是第二階段，由於各界提出建設性觀點，我的天！ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.867 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-04-13T09:56:00.668000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-04-13T09:56:15.972000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
那個建設性觀點造成這個改變，請問最主要你在業界凝聚了哪幾個建設性觀點，把1月5日陳金德主委說的一些論點改變了，麻煩你簡要說明一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.847 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-04-13T09:56:18.726000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-04-13T09:57:09.863000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
其實我們採購法的修正過程醞釀很久了，也都函詢各機關，就是辦採購的機關，大致上都沒有什麼反對意見，也去拜訪相關的公協會，包括相關的技師公會，除了少部分修正之外，沒有什麼特別的意見，所以我們嘗試去做預告，預告的部分回來也是贊成者居多，但是後來沒想到被聚焦在三家改為一家，認為這個是要圖利廠商，甚至認為工程會這是要放水，這個指責就太大了！ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.928 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-04-13T09:57:10.463000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-04-13T09:57:10.944000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
這個指責太大。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-04-13T09:57:11.604000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-04-13T09:57:26.531000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
我們認為與其這樣跟部分人士的意見相左硬推，不如我們再更凝聚各界贊成的意見，因為在機關贊成的意見聲音比較小……對於工程會修法的內容。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-04-13T09:57:28.172000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-04-13T09:57:48.502000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
另外，我們也的確很認真在想，是不是三家改為一家的確會造成某些缺口，或者是在執行上，機關如果有不肖的辦理採購人員，造成他更方便，所以我們也虛心認為，我們必須來認真思考。好。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.934 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-04-13T09:57:49.183000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-04-13T09:58:00.369000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
陳主委，當天我聽到非常非常多委員大概都已經幫你蒐集了相關意見。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-04-13T09:58:00.369000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-04-13T09:58:23.866000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
我記得我那天特別說了，三家如果變成一家，第一次就可以招標，在效率上，我覺得有兩種人非常開心：第一個是優質廠商，他不要被卡那麼久，就只有幾家可以做這樣大的工程，結果他被卡到預算都要調幾倍；第二個開心的就是劣質廠商，以前要「喬」半天，這次一次搞定。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.926 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-04-13T09:58:24.447000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-04-13T09:58:28.129000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
所以確實有困難，這可以理解的。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-04-13T09:58:28.590000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-04-13T09:58:49.684000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
但我想請問一下，我看到你們4月10日的回復特別講了，在第二段最後幾個字，你們會持續整合各界意見，就整體影響進行長期配套評估，充分凝聚共識後，再循程序推動修法。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.826 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-04-13T09:58:51.265000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-04-13T09:59:08.120000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
坦白講，因為過去看到有單位新聞稿的這個部分法律不是進入修法期，是進入休眠期，你現在是包括其他的部分都要進行長期評估，你大概什麼時候會提出方案？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.894 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-04-13T09:59:08.620000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-04-13T09:59:09.702000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
你們要先送行政院。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-04-13T09:59:11.543000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-04-13T09:59:15.908000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
三家這個部分排除掉的情況之下，你有沒有一個時間表？ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-04-13T09:59:16.509000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-04-13T09:59:17.209000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
還是真的進入休眠期？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-04-13T09:59:17.850000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-04-13T09:59:30.953000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
因為這次修法條文非常多，有些要修法的內容也是來自於大院的建議，在本委員會的建議，被聚焦在三家改為一家是相當可惜！ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-04-13T09:59:32.033000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-04-13T09:59:37.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
所以我們寧可把各界的意見凝聚好了之後，再來辦理…… |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-04-13T09:59:37.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-04-13T09:59:38.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
其他的大概什麼時候呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-04-13T09:59:38.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-04-13T09:59:39.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
有沒有方向？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-04-13T09:59:39.815000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-04-13T09:59:46.597000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
我們希望能夠在今年年底之前把這些工作做好之後，會重新預告。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-04-13T09:59:49.843000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-04-13T10:00:17.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
主委，確實，三家變一家，我們一般人都會擔心，因為就算現在我們有很多的防弊機制，我講真的，有時候那個標案全民都看不下去，你看看，3月26號、27號一下出來兩個新聞，我都覺得很離譜，到底採購法或者相關採購制度在法規面是不是有缺漏？ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-04-13T10:00:18.593000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-04-13T10:00:22.714000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
第二個，到底是不是人發生問題？ |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.769 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-04-13T10:00:22.714000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-04-13T10:00:28.076000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
再來，流程檢核、稽核、驗收到底是發生什麼問題？ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-04-13T10:00:28.076000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-04-13T10:00:45.383000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
警用防彈背心是拼裝貨，我覺得這很離譜，這不是個案，從2019年到2022年才被發現，你說這是業管單位的事情，可是你知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.894 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-04-13T10:00:46.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-04-13T10:01:54.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
警政署、移民署、矯正署、臺灣銀行等單位所使用的防彈背心全部是跨單位、跨機構，我坦白講，如果工程會沒有跨單位去用心的話，主委，我們所有的員警同仁穿上了防彈背心，他覺得很安心，他這份信任不是來自於這個廠商，而是信任這個國家的制度，信任工程會、採購法一定可以給我們品質很棒的、能夠保護我們生命的產品，結果到最後答案一翻出來，像現在有些案子正在準備起訴，我說真的，還沒判決，保固期已經過了，準備換下一件了，像這樣的狀況真的很離譜，可以改製造日期、可以沒有防水的功能、可以提供假的檢測報告和非原廠的證明書，可以七搞八搞弄完這個，請問一下這是哪一個處，還是哪個單位負責？ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.892 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-04-13T10:01:54.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-04-13T10:01:56.596000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
跟委員報告…… |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-04-13T10:01:56.596000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-04-13T10:02:10.786000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
我先問一下，這個2019年上網招標，剛開始標了，大家也穿了、也不知道發生什麼事，我請問一下，2020年、2021年沒有東窗事發之前這個廠商履歷好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.982 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-04-13T10:02:11.648000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-04-13T10:02:16.457000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
在你們的1.3萬家廠商中，這兩家廠商的履歷是不是優良廠商？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.88 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-04-13T10:02:16.638000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-04-13T10:02:17.439000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
你們要注意這件事啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-04-13T10:02:22.018000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-04-13T10:02:47.833000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
你們累積了十年，目前你們的資料庫裡有1.3萬家優良廠商，你們回去自己查，像這個廠商你們說是優良廠商，結果後面的人看到2020年、2021年又要找這樣的防彈背心，終於找到我們工程會認定的優良廠商，履歷很棒的，結果搞一個大烏龍、大笑話，我覺得這個你們要特別注意。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.731 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-04-13T10:02:48.974000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-04-13T10:03:04.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
像陸軍26套反制系統，我都不知道為什麼有這麼多渣男廠商，他們這麼厲害，我跟你講，很多技術真的到位的廠商根本不敢去標，你知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.873 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-04-13T10:03:04.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-04-13T10:03:05.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
它覺得水很深，從招標到驗收、到領到錢，這真不容易，可是問題是這些廠商就黏得很近。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.114 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-04-13T10:03:05.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-04-13T10:03:06.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
我還是給你一點時間，對於像這樣層出不窮的情況，請你精簡說明一下到底要怎麼去做？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-04-13T10:03:06.431000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-04-13T10:03:47.828000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
所以我們本來在政府採購法的修正裡面要擴大停權範圍，就是要解決這些渣男廠商的問題，我們其中有一個修法是要針對，比方說公司更名，或者是同一個自然人，他登記了很多家公司，過去是沒有管制的，我們要透過修法來擴大停權範圍，就是要解決碰到這種渣男廠商的問題，而且這也是大院一再要求的。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-04-13T10:03:49.268000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-04-13T10:04:11.858000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
我想這真的非常嚴重，因為一件事情起頭根本沒有做好，後面的審計、監察、司法調查，我覺得都是後面再補強，重點是穿著這樣完全不合格、過期的防彈背心的這些員警同仁，他們現在身上超多自己買的東西，你知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-04-13T10:04:13.539000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-04-13T10:04:18.151000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
我覺得奇怪，我就問了，警政署就有相關的配備，你幹嘛要買這個、買那個？ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.931 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-04-13T10:04:18.151000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-04-13T10:04:18.512000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
你知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-04-13T10:04:20.973000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-04-13T10:04:25.335000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
我們招標唯一的特色是特別貴，但是品質沒有特別好。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-04-13T10:04:25.995000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-04-13T10:04:52.765000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
我的結論就是這樣，我覺得政府採購法有很多問題，現在看到這麼多的情況，有三大問題，你的檢核、驗收的制度失靈，這些假的原廠證明，到最後有沒有一個回溯追蹤的制度，我拿到一個證明，不要等到司法調查時才發現，我要怎麼看得懂這個證明造假？ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.804 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-04-13T10:04:53.606000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-04-13T10:04:55.826000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
是不是可以回溯到原廠、寄給原廠？ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.643 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-04-13T10:04:56.427000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-04-13T10:05:03.529000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
我不太清楚現在各個機關有沒有這種double check的制度，也不能都讓行政院公共工程委員會幫忙判讀嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-04-13T10:05:05.370000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-04-13T10:05:34.096000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
我倒是覺得，已經招標完成了，那就一切照著制度走，但是有些重要的部分，已經發生這麼多次了，包括檢驗等等，我覺得要有一個跟原單位回溯去追蹤的機制，包括你的黑名單、汰除機制，這個我已經說了很多次，還有現在的罰則、履約管理，我看到你修法修了很多地方，我們希望你最後做個結論，修法之後，你希望預期怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.832 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-04-13T10:05:36.850000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-04-13T10:05:53.195000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
過去這些讓不好的廠商有機會一再投機、得標的路我們都要把它擋起來，相關的問題我們希望有機會在政府採購法裡面做修正，而且獲得大院的支持。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.935 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
魯委員明哲 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-04-13T10:05:53.895000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-04-13T10:05:54.495000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
好，謝謝主席。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-04-13T10:05:54.995000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-04-13T10:05:56.995000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
感謝魯明哲委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-04-13T10:05:57.295000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-04-13T10:06:00.437857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
接下來請徐富癸委員發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0 |