| IVOD_ID |
163820 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163820 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第3次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第3次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-07T10:44:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-07T11:15:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:30:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7828e564de0d60cb250cc3cc450af11dac1daff01b5f9282bd6907a7b6aaafa5b93907f0277984e85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林國成 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:44:32 - 11:15:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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謝謝主席我們請行政院卓院長勞動部紅部長卓院長請備詢還有勞動部紅部長請備詢好 卓院長好好 院長本席一項都是主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
38.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
66.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我們本黨裡面很堅持的理性務實科顯請你放心我一定針對問題來做執行那我也要懇託卓院長針對問題來回答所以這點我想剛剛一個半小時我看卓院長我必須要提醒你你是中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
68.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
92.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
最高的行政院長有時候在立法院也不需要動氣我們立法院是談理跟談話的地方所以過去曾經我看到以前的卓榮泰跟現在的卓院長確實是有所差別所以我要再度提醒卓院長我們針對問題來回答問題這個是我執行的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
100.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
114.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我常常說質詢就像一面鏡子一樣我看到的你跟你看到的我應該一樣才對但是如果在質詢過程一再的污衊我們的部長我覺得我有責任替我們部長講兩句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
116.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
142.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
講一句你又講了十幾句這樣就不對等因為我基本上我是絕對尊重行政官員這是我的言者我從議員到現在我都是這個言者但是如果不來電或者答非所問的時候我是勞工出身雖然一身西裝但是我是以事尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
143.405 |
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167.74 |
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行政院長 所以我特別在這裡要強調希望卓院長能夠了解到每一個人的執行跟問政風格完全是不一樣的院長 我要請問一下我的標題已經講出來了我想我們探討的是整個勞工跟勞保的這些財務的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
170.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
176.934 |
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那我也要希望我們院長我承認民進黨在執政的當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
206.661 |
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我要求兩種一 撥補二 確定給付這是勞工罪因應期盼的一個入法所以我要跟你談的是針對這個問題那我也希望院長要表示你個人的意見對於勞工等等的關懷那這個我想很冒昧請教我們院長你知不知道勞保什麼時候開辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
209.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
233.471 |
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保保 開辦的年限喔這個請委員再 年我沒有辦法記好啦 部長 你知道嗎我了解好 來 都不要為難兩位 39年就開辦了所以39年以前 當然是那個遷台之後 不管誰執政我想兩大黨都有執政過所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
235.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
263.634 |
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勞保的問題我常主張不能怪任何一個政黨但是面對問題是執政黨要來面對所以我特別就提醒一下39年到現在這是一個非常重要的里程碑不管誰執政對勞工他都是基於照顧跟保護的情況這一點我想我們一定要去承認政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
264.495 |
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277.84 |
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另外一個 院長我再請教一下你知不知道現在投保勞工保險受政府來保護的有多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
279.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
293.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
人數可能到達1000萬以上好了 部長應該你也不會管這麼細但是我是建議勞工投保人數到七月底是1000 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
297.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
322.995 |
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四十幾萬也將近一千一啦所以就變成我們兩千三百五十萬的人口就變成二分之一通通都有保勞保這代表什麼就代表政府開辦勞工保險確實是有其必要對於勞工的保障確實是有必要所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
324.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
329.495 |
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我要跟你談的就是勞工現在雖然我們民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
331.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
確實是有做到撥補這一點我想身為勞工我看到的我眼見之事實我必然到哪邊我都一定要去陳述啦那另外一個照顧勞工我想撥補跟確定給付確實是院長你也一直在認為說照顧勞工是有其必要因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
378.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
勞工照顧是一個政府執政的一個德政所以質疑財務的問題那當然就很重要那我們也承認勞保的問題確實是有所虧損但是虧損的責任不能全部都是勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
379.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
406.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
因為政府經營不善也要有負起責任所以動不動說勞保要倒閉這點我是極力反對從前任我們陳院長到現在卓院長我都始終覺得很不服氣的不要動不動政府不負責任的態度就要跟勞工講說勞保要倒啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
407.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
431.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
當然這個是不負責任的一個執政所以院長我主要的今天要跟你談針對勞保長期法令撥補現在我們卓院長這裡民進黨執政的時候連續三年確實都有撥補一千三百億 一千三百億幾百億一直在撥補那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
433.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
450.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
院長也常講過照顧勞工是刻不容緩政府要負起全部責任所以我今天特別針對我也修改勞保條例66條也就是法定撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
452.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
476.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那也修改勞保條例69條就是政府要確定己負之責任就只有這兩條但是照常理來講 院長常講過立法院做什麼事情事先跟院長來做溝通那我今天是基於溝通 這個案已經在一讀了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
477.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
499.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那一讀的時候如果強制的送到這裡我相信也會通過但是這是對勞工啊他一種就是放心的表現所以院長我不曉得你對於這些法定撥補的部分以及確定給付院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
500.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
529.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你不曉得對勞工有什麼看法好 謝謝委員也感謝委員對長期在執政過程當中不管哪一黨尤其現在我們對勞保撥補的這個作為表示肯定我認為這個是政府的責任所以這兩個條文看起來政府已經在做只是固定撥補這個固定的定義到底怎麼樣因為我們要衡量到國家的財政也要衡量到勞保基金它的多與少變化如何所以固定兩制是需要在商所的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
530.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
557.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
政府負最終責任講這個條文有講沒講效果是一樣的政府不會讓勞保倒而且會讓勞保越來越好這是我們一再自我的要求所以我們希望我們能夠做理性的討論已經在做的事情我們督促現在把它做好做的不夠多不夠好我們把它現在做好法律的條文需要在條文的時候我們需要有一些些的彈性或是一些些的斟酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
558.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
579.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
回來 燕子啊當然因為我今天為什麼還是要再執行這個問題入華跟不入華在華麗未接是完全不一樣勞工的想法勞工的心裡面當然現在你們有在做那如果有一天你們不做該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
581.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
599.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們會繼續做你會繼續做這就是你的決心跟對勞工的承諾嘛那為什麼我入華那你們也會反對但是撥補是一個給執政的一個執政黨是一個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
600.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
624.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
任何人執政在華的依據情況之下就是要撥補至於撥補 撥補多少那華你沒有規定啊 燕子啊你整個說明一下好嗎跟委員說明喔其實現在這個政府付勞保財務的這個最終支付責任這就是我們現在的政策這是非常非常清楚的 一以貫之的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
625.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
649.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那的確我們其實這幾年包括像115年明年其實在財化法修正以後其實中央政府的財政的餘裕也受到了影響可是即便是這樣我們目前在115年的公務預算的編列裡面一樣是編了1200億的撥補那如果再加上這一次我們任性的特別條例裡面100億的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
650.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
670.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
其實這加起來是一千三百億的撥補其實我們一直把這件事情是放在心裡面而且是放在是我們的責任的最中間所以我想其實這個委員應該不用擔心那當然我知道委員其實對於這個修法其實有相關的提案我想對於委員們的提案我們是持開放態度我們予以尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
671.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
697.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
好 院長我剛才已經講過民進黨在執政連續兩年1300億的撥補所謂嬰兒勞保基金水位已經上兆這一點我們要肯定所以我不管什麼黨任何人問我說勞保會不會倒我說最起碼的話在整個兩大黨都有執政民進黨已經做到有撥補可是只是把它法治化 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
697.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
725.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以我修這兩條是讓勞工很確定的安心說政府最終給付所以院長剛才部長也已經講了你們所做勞工都知道可是二分之一參加勞保的人他要的勞工要的不多要的是一個保障要的是一個法定的承諾所以我會修這個法所以我也希望總院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
726.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
756.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你對勞工我相信你也不會去反對這些那我也希望 院長你今年還是在撥補一千三百億這一點我要代表勞工啊對於整個勞保基金的這些需要的當中你們做到所以我希望我們在修法的過程當中我事先跟院長讓院長了解做這些只有一個什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
756.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
782.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你們本來既然要做的 你怕什麼立法所以這點是勞工的想法勞工很單純你只要關心他 你只要照顧他在法令上給他一個充分的保障他就非常的高興所以我在想這個部分我也要建議左院長也就是責成我們洪部長當初洪部長在當立委的時候 我也很感動因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
784.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
807.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你發布他當勞動部長的時候是我第一個跳出來我說當然要支持他為什麼因為我們在修華有關勞工的時候他也有簽署啊所以我希望洪部長的樂觀啟程跟卓院長的用一點心在卓榮泰院長的手上這個華去實施我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
808.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
825.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
勞工會感謝你所以這一點我拜託我們卓院長也把他這個樂觀齊成照顧勞工這種德政也把他樂觀齊成這一點我要特別拜託你謝謝 兩點答覆第一個請委員跟廣大的勞工朋友相信政府的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
826.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
855.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
政策一定不會改變對勞工朋友的照顧這是第一個第二點未來即使進到法案文字的討論的過程我們期待這種合理的理性的討論我們找出一個最好的方向在政府財政可及的範圍之內好好的把勞工的政策做很堅固的保護代表一千多萬的勞工謝謝但是我們修這個法完全沒有給政府機關限定撥補多少的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
856.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
885.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
只是讓他畫字畫這一點我請院長你放心好好的來討論另外一個我還是要跟院長談這些因為勞工出身主要非常關心這些我接下來就要談我們關稅海嘯的衝擊之下當然不是只有台灣我想世界各國每一個被美國這種關稅搞得頭昏腦脹這個我想院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
885.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
906.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
一樣包括我們的談判代表 政府院長我們都會體會所以我在想一個問題 國內一個問題當然你們談判整個過程我們沒有意見但是站在台灣的立場你們盡量去對台灣有利但是事實現在擺在眼前 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
907.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
928.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
也就是無薪假從七月份 八月份 九月份不斷的攀升無薪假有兩種一種就是產業不知何企何從一種就勞工不知道我什麼會失業當然現在就變成無薪假 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
930.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
948.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
縣長 我要聽聽你跟我們洪部長在這個部分為以籌謀面對這些關稅的這些海嘯對以失業 對以無薪假這個你有什麼因應之道 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
950.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
969.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這幾個月下來我們一直很關心勞工就業安定的問題關於這種剛剛委員所說的我們應該叫做是減班休息到最新的數字來看減班休息有398家那麼有8505人但其中我們分析出來跟關稅相關的有310家有7755人我們都有經濟勞動部有很精確的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
973.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
991.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個310加7000多人到底是什麼行業我們也都有分析那勞動部也提出了關於減半休息的再充電的計畫以及強化版的安定就業的輔導計畫那相關的計畫有很多種我們都持續的在做這樣的一個監測也得協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
993.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1014.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我們也有他薪資差額的補助最近我看到我們洪部長還有行政業也做出這些生意補助把他提高10萬這些那當然因為提高當然這個歇頭不錯但是人家本來就有生意給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1015.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1044.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那當然是補足十萬也就是不足的部分補足十萬這個政策當然是鼓勵當然是好那我在想失業率的問題以及無薪假的問題這個不得不重視所以洪部長你的看法跟委員說明其實從關稅的談判以來當然國際貿易情勢的不確定讓一些產業是有一些不確定感 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1045.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1069.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那我們一直非常非常關注這個減班休息也是委員現在口中說無薪假可是實際上減班休息並不是真的能夠無薪法規上並不他也要付最低工資但我要強調的事情是我們其實很希望全力的來協助這些減班休息的勞工一個很重要的部分是因為我們就是不希望他落入失業或被解雇因為這裡面有蠻多是中高齡的勞工如果他 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1070.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1087.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
落入到失業或者是被解雇他要再去轉業也會相當比較辛苦這也是為什麼我們其實現在對於這些減半休息的勞工我們提出一個強化版的公安令措施也就是給他薪資差額補貼從過去的五成拉到七成過去只有三個行業現在我們把它擴大到九個行業 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1088.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1109.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
所以我們就是希望把這個安全網讓它經濟安全的這個網子能夠築得更大然後可以更密對它有更多的協助我想這就是我們這幾個月來一直一直不斷強調而且不斷的來強化我們周圍的地方好了 洪部長還有燕子啊我特別提醒這個是你們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1110.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1126.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
宣導不夠所以這個部分我要建議我們卓院長啊責成我們馮部長在這個部分任何一個場所任何一個方式都要去做宣導的部分所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1128.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1156.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
跟委員說明的確我們在這幾個月跟很多公會在討論的時候他們也說希望我們擴大宣傳而且用不同的工具來宣傳所以這次我們在任性條例的特別預算裡面我們也編列了相關的預算很希望委員可以來支持我們把這些重要的支持勞工的措施能夠更普及的讓更多勞工知道的這些宣導的計畫相關的預算這部分希望蔡委員支持我在想啊因為大家也知道別人執行我不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1157.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1173.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我本人從事勞工幾十年來我下情上達給院長是絕對正確你不要看美麗的數據那都是騙人我給你的是真實的反應所以院長你不要這樣突變 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1175.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1189.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
要消明 我都不是在自己消明我是時下情 下情上打 讓你瞭解那這個事實 當然黃部長有很認真在辦但是我還要拜託我們黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1190.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1211.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
不一定要編預算我們常聚會場所很多你要責成所有的講師要在這個部分用五分鐘讓他明瞭這是有幫助的所以有些要花錢有些不要花錢不是不要編而是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1212.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1237.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
確實要有用的會議都可以因為勞工運動講快一點不畸形式隨時可以宣導這一點我要建議部長只要有勞工朋友或工會來邀請我們去宣講去讓他知道這些相關的資訊我們一定都到甚至我能夠自己到的我也會自己到好 那洪部長請回那現在請內政部長跟經濟部長請兩位部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1242.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1266.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
廢政部 經濟部劉部長快點啦 你不要占用我的時間 慢慢來走好不好好 院長 我要跟你談的就是救災SOP的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1268.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1293.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我剛剛看得很難過一個半小時你跟副委員一直在指責責任的問題我坦白講我當過里長我也救過災水災的問題當然中央要負八成責任兩成責任是地方政府一樣所以我是覺得這樣我們不要吵不要鬧 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1295.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1310.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
為以籌謀 說實在 極端氣候的情況之下不是這次炒完 不是台南水災完了以後就沒有還是要面對這些極端氣候的救災SOP |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1312.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1341.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
你要把經濟部要把內政部甚至有關單位國防部等等這些水災如何處理地震如何處理這些東西我給院長又是良心的建議我記得賴總統台南市長的時候我們維康大樓地震的時候行政院長他是沒有什麼話好了N次 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1342.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1352.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
第一個去救人第一第二個知言厚言這才是行政院要做的那我建議我建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1353.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1380.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
有爭議的政治議題都不談救人第一 救災第二本來就是要這樣啊沒有講你們錯沒有講誰對誰錯的問題執政不是在講風調已順嗎那搞了風調不順郭泰民安 郭泰不安那還要救什麼災所以院長我真的良心建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1381.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1400.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我是覺得行政院長是總統委託你做全國性愛護老百姓的一個議題所以我幾點建議SOP雖然有但是不足的地方你院長要責成你的政務 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1403.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1418.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
委員要把它協調好其實一聲令下火災如何救水災如何救地震如何救這面對這些問題極端氣候一定會產生所以這些我常講過天災 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1421.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1449.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
是無法抵抗人後可可以防範但是救災過程只要有步驟有方法我認為就不會一團亂所以救災沒有在分什麼中央地方要合作所以我認為合作是最必要因為老百姓生命是不刻不容緩的救災所以我要建議我要建議燕子 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1450.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1462.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
SOP要把它建立起來以重心長JEDER你們認為JEDER這個不重要你只要把所有救災的急迫性放在第一就沒有政治啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1464.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1487.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
跟委員報告 上禮拜的院會我提過七個順序第一 搶救生命第二 恢復家園第三 去化垃圾跟淤泥第四 恢復環境跟交通第五 農損 污損 公共設施的損失我們把它賠償 補助第七個 全面的復原 重建第七個 最後一個才是追究責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1487.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1502.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我把這個放在最後面這個很好這個很好但是要實踐要實踐我們從來沒有在推卸責任要實踐真的 院長我倚重心長我可不可以補充一下經濟部沒有啦 你經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1503.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1517.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我要建議你們啦 你們不要解釋啦我沒有在跟你們吵架 水災救災的問題我都不會跟你們吵架 而是我建議你們要SOP幾例 現在我不聽這個 你不要再用我的時間花蓮巷 豔塞湖這個問題其實我們可以利用水之眼的東西耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1529.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1537.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
所以現在不是責任歸屬的問題而是要廢物利用也就是珍惜水之源 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1539.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1565.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這個有沒有思考邏輯怎麼樣去做另外一個我要跟院長也就是立能現在變成環保的殺手等等這些行政院我認為都處理不當這是我的感覺啦或許你們認為你們處理的很得當但是我認為都處理的不得當那個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1567.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1572.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那個部長 我沒有找你啦 我沒有找你啊來 你回去 你回去還有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1574.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1596.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
高雄的倒採殺死的問題這個都可以緩緩的啊院長 我跟你講這如果下令下去這種東西該是地方政府要去執行就要執行該是中央政府督促的就要督促這種東西非常嚴重破壞環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1598.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1614.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這些非常重要所以院長SOP很重要我也要建議你因為你是最高行政首長如何執政好與壞卓院長要負很大責任所以我要拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1615.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1641.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
破壞環保水資源好好珍惜以及稻採砂石破壞環境等等這些非常重要所以你SOP出來的時候劉部長內政部本來救災的部分經濟可以去配合的國防可以連線起來我跟你講就會很迅速因為台南救災第二天我就進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1642.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1662.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
可是不管是地方政府中央政府我看到那老百姓我都看得快掉眼淚黑漆漆一片要水沒水 要電沒電根本就是一個荒島所以我是這樣建議這個院長我希望我的建議你能夠聽得進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1664.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1691.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
報告委員 你講的那個高雄的部分我們正在處理 檢調在處理但是請不要汙名化因為那個不叫邁銀大峽谷不要汙名化高雄市長跟立委好啦 你們又在政治現在人家這樣 我講這樣有什麼錯報章媒體都這樣寫 我有什麼錯你告訴我 我有什麼錯我跟委員講說請不要汙名化因為那邊的地理位置不叫這個名字 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1694.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1720.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
現在就是電視也這樣報你叫我不能用這個還要你來糾正我尊重委員最後一個 院長我們觀光新南向政策已經實施好幾年可是現在我們的詐騙車手非法打工性教育非常嚴重所以劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1722.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1744.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
你要講話 你要有作為 就在這裡有作為我跟你講 一定這幾項新南向政策當然跟外交 拓展觀光客有關係但是它進來的成長五萬多但是有四千七百人涉入刑案 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1745.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1762.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以成長比例75%一定因為時間這麼久我給你一分鐘這個部分你要不要重視這個你要叫他們盤點為什麼陷入觀光客陷入這些詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1764.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1775.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
車手以及飛華打工 性交易 破後的會這麼多是他們來一定來 陳貴文堅 你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1777.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1802.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
謝謝委員 詐騙當然是全世界的一個重大的一課題那我們在強力的取締之後 現在稍緩但是剛剛委員說的問題現象是存在的不僅他進來的多 我們也有一些國人是被誘騙到當地去的所以我們在做雙方的司法付諸或是共同打擊犯罪的過程當中我們還要加強 這個部分警政署調查局都有在做這樣的工作最近我們有很多的工作是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1803.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1830.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
表揚謝謝他們在工作的這個合作跟國外的單位那這個我們會持續來加強這個凸顯一個問題啦當然他們過來我們沒有意見可是能夠緩緩他們涉入刑案因為為什麼因為他沒有簽證他進來以後幾天他就出境所以這個要破案的機會是沒有但是現在已經成長這是一個治安的問題拜託劉部長拜託院長要 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1836.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
1839.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝林委員 謝謝左院長 |
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林委員國成：（10時44分）謝謝主席，我們請行政院卓院長、勞動部洪部長。 |
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主席：請卓院長備詢，還有勞動部洪部長請備詢。 |
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卓院長榮泰：林委員好。 |
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林委員國成：卓院長好。院長，本席一向都是主張本黨裡面很堅持的理性、務實、科學，請你放心，我一定針對問題來做質詢，那我也要懇託卓院長針對問題來回答。所以這點，我想剛剛一個半小時，我看卓院長，我必須要提醒你，你是中華民國最高的行政院長，有時候在立法院也不需要動氣，立法院是談理跟談法的地方，我看到以前的卓榮泰跟現在的卓院長確實是有所差別，所以我要再度提醒卓院長，我們針對問題來回答問題，這是我質詢的殷切期盼。 |
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卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。 |
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林委員國成：我想院長，這應該沒有問題吧？ |
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卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。我常常說質詢就像一面鏡子一樣，我看到的你，跟你看到的應該一樣才對。 |
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林委員國成：是，好…… |
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卓院長榮泰：但是如果在質詢過程一再地汙衊我們部長，我覺得我有責任替我們部長講兩句話。 |
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林委員國成：你看院長，我講一句，你又講了十幾句，這樣就不對等，因為基本上我是絕對尊重行政官員，這是我的原則。 |
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卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝。 |
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林委員國成：我從議員到現在都是這個原則，但是如果不來電或者答非所問的時候，我是勞工出身，雖然一身西裝，但是我是以示尊重行政院長，所以我特別在這裡要強調，希望卓院長能夠了解到每一個人的質詢跟問政風格完全是不一樣的。 |
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院長，我要請問一下，我的標題已經講出來了，我想我們探討的是，整個勞工跟勞保的財務問題，我也希望院長，我承認民進黨在執政當中，我要求兩種：一、撥補；二、確定給付，這是勞工最殷殷期盼的入法。所以我要跟你談的是針對這個問題，我也希望院長要表示你個人的意見，對於勞工等等的關懷。我很冒昧請教院長，你知不知道勞保什麼時候開辦？ |
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卓院長榮泰：勞保開辦的年限？請委員再指教，年限我沒有辦法記。 |
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林委員國成：好啦！部長，你知道嗎？你知道嗎？ |
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洪部長申翰：很長的時間。 |
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林委員國成：好，都不要為難兩位，39年就開辦。所以39年以前，當然是遷臺之後，不管誰執政，我想兩大黨都有執政過，所以勞保的問題，我常主張不能怪任何一個政黨，但是面對問題是執政黨要來面對，所以我特別提醒，從39年到現在，這是一個非常重要的里程碑，不管誰執政，對勞工，它都是基於照顧跟保護的情況，這一點我想政府一定要去承認。另外，我再請教院長，你知不知道現在投保勞工保險，受政府保護的有多少人？ |
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卓院長榮泰：人數可能高達1,000萬。 |
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洪部長申翰：可能差不多1,000萬。 |
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卓院長榮泰：1,000萬以上。 |
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林委員國成：好啦，部長，你應該也不會管這麼細，但是我建議……勞工投保人數到7月底是一千零四十幾萬，也將近1,100啦！所以我們2,350萬人口就變成二分之一通通都有保勞保，這代表什麼？就代表政府開辦勞工保險確實是有其必要，對於勞工的保障確實是有必要。 |
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卓院長榮泰：是。 |
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林委員國成：所以這個部分我要跟你談的是，雖然現在民進黨對於勞工確實有做到撥補，關於這一點，我想身為勞工，我看到的、我眼見之事實，我到哪邊都一定要陳述。另外一個照顧勞工，我想撥補跟確定給付，院長確實也一直認為照顧勞工是有其必要，因為勞工照顧是政府執政的一個德政，至於財務的問題，當然就很重要。我們也承認勞保的問題是確實有所虧損，但是虧損的責任不能全部都由勞工承擔，因為政府經營不善也要負起責任，所以動不動就說勞保要倒閉，這一點我是極力反對，從前任陳院長到現在卓院長，我始終都覺得很不服氣，政府不要動不動就以不負責任的態度跟勞工講說勞保要倒了，這個當然是不負責任的執政。 |
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所以院長，我今天主要跟你談針對勞保法令長期撥補，現在的卓院長、民進黨執政的時候，連續三年確實都有撥補1,300億、1,300億，幾百億一直在撥補。另外，院長也常講照顧勞工是刻不容緩，政府要負起全部責任。 |
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卓院長榮泰：是。 |
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林委員國成：所以我今天特別針對，也修改勞保條例第六十六條，即法定撥補；也修改勞保條例第六十九條，即政府要確定給付之責任，就只有這兩條。但是照常理來講，院長常講立法院做什麼事情要事先跟院長溝通，我今天是基於溝通，這個案已經在一讀了，一讀的時候如果強制地送到這裡，我相信也會通過，但是這是一種讓勞工放心的表現，所以對於這些法定撥補以及確定給付的部分，院長不曉得對勞工有什麼看法？ |
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卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，也感謝委員對長期執政過程當中，不管哪一黨，尤其現在我們對勞保撥補的作為表示肯定，我認為這是政府的責任，所以這兩個條文看起來政府已經在做，只是固定撥補，這個「固定」的定義到底是怎麼樣？因為我們要衡量到國家的財政，也要衡量到勞保基金的多與少變化如何，所以「固定」兩字是須要再商酌的，政府負最終責任，這一個條文有講沒講效果是一樣的，政府不會讓勞保倒，而且會讓勞保越來越好，這是我們一再對自我的要求。所以我們希望能夠理性討論已經在做的事情，我們現在督促把它做好，做得不夠多、不夠好，我們現在把它做好。法律的條文須要有一些些的彈性，或是一些些的斟酌。 |
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林委員國成：院長，我今天為什麼還是要再質詢這個問題？入法跟不入法在法律位階是完全不一樣的，勞工的想法、勞工的心裡，當然現在你們有在做，如果有一天你們不做該怎麼辦？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我們會繼續做。 |
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林委員國成：你會繼續做，這叫做你的決心跟對勞工的承諾嘛！為什麼我入法你們會反對？撥補對執政黨是一個責任，任何人執政，在法的依據情況之下就是要撥補，至於撥補是撥補多少，法律沒有規定，院長，你知道嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：請部長說明一下。 |
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洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，其實現在政府負勞保財務最終支付責任，這就是我們現在的政策，這是非常非常清楚且一以貫之的。我們其實這幾年包括像115年（明年）在財劃法修正以後，中央政府財政餘裕也受到了影響，可是即便是這樣，我們目前在115年公務預算編列裡面一樣是編了1,200億的撥補，如果再加上這一次我們韌性特別條例100億的話，加起來是1,300億的撥補，其實我們一直把這件事情放在心裡面，而且是放在我們責任的最中間，所以我想委員應該不用擔心。 |
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我知道委員對於這個修法有相關的提案，對於委員們的提案，我們是持開放態度，我們予以尊重。 |
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林委員國成：院長，我剛才已經講過，民進黨執政連續2年1,300億的撥補，因而勞保基金水位已經達上兆，這一點我們要肯定，所以不管什麼黨，任何人問我說勞保會不會倒？我說最起碼在兩大黨都有執政下，民進黨已經做到有撥補，可是只是把它法制化，所以我修這2條是讓勞工能很確定、安心知道政府負最終給付。 |
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所以院長，剛才部長也已經講了，你們所做的勞工都知道，可是二分之一參加勞保的人，勞工他要的不多，要的是一個保障，要的是一個法定的承諾。我會修這個法，所以我相信卓院長對於勞工……我相信你也不會去反對，我也希望院長今年還是再撥補1,300億，這一點我要代表勞工對於勞保基金這些的需要中，你們要做到，所以我希望我們在修法的過程當中，我事先跟院長說，讓院長了解，做這些只為了什麼？你們本來既然要做的，你怕什麼立法？這一點是勞工的想法，勞工很單純，你只要關心他、你只要照顧他，在法令上給他一個充分的保障，他就會非常高興。 |
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我想這部分，我也要建議卓院長責成我們洪部長……當初洪部長在當立委的時候，我也很感動，你發布他當勞動部長的時候，我是第一個跳出來，我說當然要支持他，為什麼？因為我們在修有關勞工的法的時候，他也有簽署，所以我希望洪部長的樂觀其成跟卓院長的用一點心，在卓榮泰院長的手上，讓這個法實施，我想勞工會感謝你，所以這一點我拜託我們卓院長也把他的樂觀其成、照顧勞工這種德政，也把它樂觀其成，這一點我要特別拜託你。 |
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卓院長榮泰：謝謝。這邊兩點答復：第一個，請委員跟廣大的勞工朋友相信政府的政策，政策已定，不會改變對勞工朋友的照顧，這是第一個；第二點，未來即使進到法案文字討論的過程，我們期待這種合理、理性的討論，我們找出一個最好的方向，在政府財政可及的範圍之內，好好地把勞工的政策做很堅固的保護。 |
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林委員國成：院長，我代表一千多萬的勞工謝謝你，但是我們修這個法，完全沒有請政府機關限定撥補多少的問題，只是讓它法制化，這一點我請院長放心。 |
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卓院長榮泰：好，我們好好地來討論，謝謝。 |
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林委員國成：另外一個，我還是要跟院長談這些，因為我是勞工出身，主要非常關心這些。接下來就要談我們關稅海嘯的衝擊之下……當然不是只有臺灣，我想世界各國都被美國關稅搞得頭昏腦脹，我想院長也一樣，包括我們的談判代表、正副院長，我們都能體會，所以我在想國內一個問題……當然，你們談判的整個過程，我們沒有意見，但是站在臺灣的立場，你們儘量去做對臺灣有利的，但是事實現在擺在眼前，也就是無薪假，從7月份、8月份，9月份不斷的攀升。 |
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無薪假有兩種：一種就是產業不知何去何從；一種是勞工不知道我什麼時候會失業，當然現在就變成無薪假。院長，我要聽聽你跟我們洪部長在這個部分未雨綢繆，面對關稅海嘯，對於失業、對於無薪假，你有什麼因應之道？ |
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卓院長榮泰：這幾個月下來，我們一直很關心勞工就業安定的問題，關於剛剛委員所說的，我們應該叫做減班休息，照最新的數字來看，減班休息有398家、有8,505人，但其中我們分析出來，跟關稅相關的有310家、有7,755人，勞動部都有很精確的數字，這310家、七千多人到底是什麼行業，我們也都有分析。勞動部也提出了關於減班休息的再充電計畫，以及強化版的安定就業輔導計畫，相關的計畫有很多種，我們都持續的在監測及協助。對於減班休息，我們也有薪資差額的補助，這就是在充電計畫跟強化版的安定就業輔導計畫當中。 |
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林委員國成：是啦，最近我看到我們洪部長還有行政院也提出生育補助，把它提高到10萬，提高補助這噱頭不錯，但是人家本來就有生育給付啦！當然，補足10萬……也就是不足的部分補足10萬，這個政策當然是鼓勵、當然是好，但我在想失業率的問題及無薪假的問題，這個不得不重視，洪部長你的看法？ |
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洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，其實從關稅的談判以來，國際貿易情勢的不確定，讓一些產業是有一些不確定感，我們一直非常非常關注減班休息，也就是委員現在口中說的無薪假，可是實際上減班休息並不是真的能夠無薪，法規上也要付最低工資，但我要強調的事情是我們其實很希望全力的來協助這些減班休息的勞工，一個很重要的部分是因為我們不希望他落入失業或被解僱，因為這裡面有蠻多是中高齡的勞工，如果他落入到失業或者是被解僱，他要再去轉業，也會相對比較辛苦，這也是為什麼我們現在對於這些減班休息的勞工，我們提出一個強化版的就業安定措施，也就是給他薪資差額補貼，從過去的五成拉到七成；過去只有3個行業，現在我們把它擴大到9個行業，我們就是希望把安全網、讓他經濟安全的這個網子能夠築得更大、更密，對他有更多的協助，我想這就是我們這幾個月來一直一直不斷強調，而且不斷的來強化我們作為的地方。 |
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林委員國成：洪部長、院長，我特別提醒，這個你們知道，但宣導不夠，所以這個部分，我要建議卓院長責成洪部長，在這個部分，任何一個場所、任何一個方式都要去做宣導，所以這個部分…… |
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洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，的確我們在這幾個月跟很多工會在討論的時候，他們也說希望我們擴大宣傳，而且用不同的工具來宣導，所以這一次我們在韌性條例特別預算裡面也編列相關的預算，很希望委員可以來支持，我們把這些重要支持勞工的措施能夠更普及的讓更多勞工知道這些宣導的計畫及相關的預算，這部分希望委員支持。 |
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林委員國成：洪部長，我在想……因為大家也知道，別人質詢我不曉得，我本人從事勞工幾十年來，我下情上達給院長的絕對正確，你不要看美麗的數據，那都是騙人的，我給你的是真實的反應，所以院長你不要每次都要吵架，我都不曾跟你吵過，我是下情上達…… |
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卓院長榮泰：我沒有啊！ |
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林委員國成：讓你了解事實，當然洪部長有很認真在辦，但是我還是要拜託洪部長，不一定要編預算，我們聚會場所很多，你要責成所有的講師在這個部分用5分鐘讓他明瞭這是有幫助的，所以有些要花錢、有些不要花錢，不是不要編，而是確實有用的會議都可以編，因為勞工運動，講快一點，不拘形式，隨時都可以宣導，這點我要建議部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
洪部長申翰：只要有勞工朋友或工會來邀請我們去宣講，讓他們知道這些相關資訊的，我們一定都到。甚至我能夠自己到的，我也會自己到。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
林委員國成：好，洪部長請回。現在請內政部長跟經濟部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
主席：請內政部、經濟部兩位部長備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
林委員國成：劉部長快點，你不要占用我的時間慢慢走，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
劉部長世芳：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
林委員國成：院長，我要跟你談救災SOP的問題。我剛剛看得很難過，那一個半小時你跟傅委員一直在指責責任的問題！坦白講，我當過里長，我也救過災。水災的問題，中央當然要負八成責任，兩成責任在地方政府，所以一樣。我覺得我們不要吵、不要鬧，要未雨綢繆。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][1] |
說實在，在極端氣候的情況之下，不是這次吵完、不是臺南水災完了以後就沒有了，所以還是要面對極端氣候下的救災SOP！院長，你要把經濟部、內政部，甚至於有關單位如國防部等等，對水災如何處理、地震如何處理的這些東西……我給院長又一個良心的建議。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][2] |
我記得賴總統當臺南市長的時候，維冠大樓因地震倒塌，當時的行政院院長沒有說什麼話，卻跑了N次，而且第一個，救人第一；第二個，資源後援，這才是行政院要做的。我建議有爭議的政治議題都不談，救人第一，救災第二，本來就是要這樣！沒有講你們錯，也沒有講這是誰對誰錯的問題，執政不是講風調雨順嗎？搞了半天風調不順！講國泰民安，結果國泰不安，那還要救什麼災？院長，我真的良心建議，行政院長是總統委託你去做全國性愛護老百姓的議題，所以我幾點建議：SOP雖然有，但是對不足的地方，院長要責成政務委員協調好。其實一聲令下，火災如何救、水災如何救、地震如何救，這些問題在面對極端氣候時一定會產生。我常講，天災無法抵抗，人禍可以防範！所以救災過程只要有步驟、有方法，我認為就不會一團亂！救災沒有在分什麼中央地方，要合作。我認為合作是最必要的，因為老百姓的生命是刻不容緩的救災。所以我要建議院長，把SOP建立起來，我語重心長。你們覺得這個不重要，但你只要把救災的急迫性放在第一，就沒有政治、就沒有政治！ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，上禮拜的院會我提過七個順序：第一，搶救生命；第二，恢復家園；第三，去化垃圾跟淤泥；第四，恢復環境跟交通；第五，農損、屋損、公共設施的損失，我們賠償補助；第六，全面復原重建；第七，最後一個才是追究責任，我把追究責任放在最後面。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
林委員國成：這個很好、這個很好，但是要實踐、要實踐。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們從來沒有在推卸責任。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
林委員國成：要實踐！真的，院長，我語重心長。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我可不可以補充一下經濟部的救災…… |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
林委員國成：還沒有啦。經濟部，我要建議你們，不要解釋啦，我沒有在跟你們吵架。水災、救災的問題，我都不會跟你們吵架，而是我建議你們要有SOP…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
龔部長明鑫：就你剛剛提到的，我們賴次長在那邊已經一個禮拜，然後我們的林署長從9月23日到現在…… |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
林委員國成：好啦，我不聽這個，你不要佔用我的時間。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][1] |
來，花蓮堰塞湖這個問題，其實是我們可以利用水資源的東西耶，所以院長，現在不是責任歸屬的問題，而是要廢物利用，也就是珍惜水資源，這個有沒有思考過怎麼樣去做？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][2] |
另外一個我要跟院長說的，也就是綠能現在變成環保的殺手等等，我認為行政院都處理不當。這是我的感覺啦，或許你們認為你們處理得很得當，但是我認為都處理得不得當！ |
| gazette.blocks[56][3] |
部長，我沒有找你啦，我沒有找你，你回去！你回去！ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
主席：部長請回。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
林委員國成：還有一點，高雄盜採砂石的問題，這個都是可以防範的啊！院長，我跟你說，這個如果你下令下去，這種東西該是地方政府要去執行的就要執行，該是中央政府督促的就要督促，這種東西非常嚴重啊！破壞環境，這些非常重要的，所以院長，SOP很重要，我也要建議你，因為你是最高行政首長，如何執政、好與壞，卓院長要負很大的責任，所以我要拜託，破壞環保、水資源好好珍惜，以及盜採砂石破壞環境等等，這些非常重要，所以你SOP出來的時候，劉部長的內政部在救災的部分，經濟可以去配合，國防也可以連線起來，我跟你講，就會很迅速。因為臺南救災，第二天我就進去了，可是不管是地方政府、中央政府，我看到那些老百姓都看得快掉眼淚，黑漆漆一片，要水沒水、要電沒電，根本就是一個荒島。所以我是這樣建議，院長，我希望我的建議你能夠聽得進去，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
劉部長世芳：報告委員，你講的那個高雄的部分，我們正在處理，檢調在處理，但是請不要污名化，因為那個不叫「邁瑩大峽谷」，不要污名化高雄市長跟立委。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
林委員國成：好啦，你們又在政治！現在人家這樣，我講這樣有什麼錯？報章媒體都這樣寫，我有什麼錯？ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
劉部長世芳：所以我跟委員講說不要污名化。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
林委員國成：你告訴我，我有什麼錯？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
劉部長世芳：我跟委員講說請不要污名化。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
林委員國成：你叫報章雜誌不要登！ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
劉部長世芳：因為那邊的地理位置不叫這個名字，那是美濃。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
林委員國成：現在就是電視也這樣報，你叫我不能用這個，還要你來糾正我啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
劉部長世芳：我尊重委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
林委員國成：最後一個，院長，我們觀光的新南向政策已經實施好幾年了，可是現在我們的詐騙車手、非法打工、性交易問題非常嚴重，所以劉部長，你要講話，你要有作為，就在這裡有作為。我跟你講，院長，這幾項新南向政策當然跟外交拓展、觀光客有關係，他們進來的成長五萬多，但是有4,700人涉入刑案，所以成長比率75%。院長，因為時間很少，我給你1分鐘，這個部分你要不要重視？這個你要叫他們盤點，為什麼觀光客陷入這些詐騙車手以及非法打工、性交易破獲的會這麼多？院長，剩幾分鐘，你有什麼看法？要不要做？ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，詐騙當然是全世界一個重的大課題，我們在強力的取締之後，現在稍緩，但是剛剛委員說的問題及現象是存在的，不僅他們進來的多，我們也有一些國人是被誘騙到當地去的，所以我們在雙方的司法互助或是共同打擊犯罪的過程當中，我們還要加強，針對這個部分，警政署、調查局都有在做這樣的工作，最近我們有很多的工作是在表揚、謝謝他們在這個工作上跟國外單位的合作，這個我們會持續來加強。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
林委員國成：院長，這個凸顯一個問題，當然，他們過來我們沒有意見，可是要能夠防範他們涉入刑案，為什麼？因為他沒有簽證，他進來以後幾天就出境，所以這個要破案的機會是沒有，但是現在已經成長，這是一個治安的問題，拜託劉部長、拜託院長要重視，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
劉部長世芳：我們的國際刑警科有跟外國單位在合作。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
林委員國成：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
主席：好，謝謝。謝謝林委員，謝謝卓院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][1] |
下一位請陳培瑜委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
299 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-4-3 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
江啟臣 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
劉書彬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
王義川 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
215 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-10-07 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1147801 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1147801_00009 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1147801_00010 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
施政質詢
對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─ |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1147801_00014 |