| IVOD_ID |
158415 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158415 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-25T11:57:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-25T12:08:22+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:21 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/88c3a1b6d7637a7560d163e8398005808d0d2321dc4c0e49d95fba2f28dd1e32c5623f32ff13d98b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅明才 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:57:01 - 12:08:22 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「菸酒稅法」10案：
(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員李柏毅等16人、委員賴惠員等16人、委員郭國文等18人、委員吳琪銘等16人分別擬具「菸酒稅法部分條文修正草案」等5案。【本院委員吳琪銘等16人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】
(二)本院委員徐巧芯等29人擬具「菸酒稅法第十九條條文修正草案」案。
(三)本院委員賴士葆等27人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等20人、委員張智倫等18人分別擬具「菸酒稅法第十九條及第二十一條條文修正草案」等3案。
(四)本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「菸酒稅法第十九條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查「使用牌照稅法」8案：
(一) 行政院函請審議、本院委員賴士葆等24人、委員陳菁徽等17人、委員張智倫等18人、委員陳素月等19人、委員賴惠員等17人、委員郭國文等16人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第二十九條、第三十條及第三十一條條文修正草案」等7案。
(二) 本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「使用牌照稅法第三十條及第三十一條條文修正草案」案。
三、審查行政院函請審議、本院委員賴士葆等21人、委員林楚茵等18人、委員徐巧芯等27人、委員賴惠員等17人、委員郭國文等17人分別擬具「土地稅法第五十四條條文修正草案」等6案。
四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，關於財政部主管中國輸出入銀行、臺灣金融控股股份有限公司（含臺灣銀行股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司、臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司）。（僅詢答）
【預算提案截止時間：12月24日(二)中午12時】
【12月25日及26日二天一次會】） |
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總部長你好委員好財劃法通過以後皆大歡喜大家都感覺無比的興奮跟開心你這幾天這樣聽起來有沒有不開心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
18.968 |
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44.646 |
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我跟委員報告財化法這個部分的一個修正必須要相當的審慎第一個它涉及到當然地方財政的需求要顧慮中央的施政的一個韌性財政的一個韌性以及財政規劃能力都要顧慮另外在水平分配的部分也要能夠達到調劑財政因素跟均衡區域發展這個部分都要達到這樣的一個目標我覺得大家都很開心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.447 |
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70.281 |
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你看我從新北出生我在立法院這一二十年來我一直爭取的就是希望為地方爭取更多的財源來謀取更多的福利造福地方造福商子所以我們新北現在每一年可以多370幾億哇十年就是3700多億讚 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
73.669 |
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91.761 |
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新北重新要站起來成為未來國際級的大都市我們400多萬的民眾都很開心啊還有身為立委的多數的立委也很開心你知道為什麼?因為不用再打架啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
93.266 |
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118.594 |
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為了財化法你們沒提出我們打了亂七八糟打得東倒西歪、腰痠背痛只有部長你坐在那邊也開開心心的你都沒有受傷也沒有腰痠背痛對不對所以大家都很開心啊那22縣市我再問起來每個人都很開心啊因為他分配的金額都比以前多很多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.514 |
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143.167 |
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部長有誰不開心聽說只有一個人不大開心我們不管是在公聽會也好還有邀請了相關的一些機關來討論以及許多的學者都有提到財跟財權跟事權要定同考量在財權下放的時候事權也要同時下放因為財化法中央很重要就是說事權要一定考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
143.647 |
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154.112 |
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所以如果只是考量錢而沒有考量事權的話那整個是一個不傾斜的一個狀態並不是合理的現在稅數大概一年是總金額多少?114年的預算的話稅數的編列是3兆1325億對啊現在3000都是10%而已啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
170.846 |
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195.227 |
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那中央有一些是法律義務性的支出不能去檢討所以事實上大家就在看就是說與其給中央亂花錢倒不如拿回來給地方基層來花因為基層更多人眼睛在看而且第一線大家的需求有時候中央的官員在中央吹冷氣不曉得地方的需求在哪裡 |
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196.934 |
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所以剛剛講說是十幾趴其實對你們來說也不痛不癢啊我每次在那邊審預算的時候有時候一三也是三個十趴二十趴啊也是不痛不癢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
238.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以希望部長可以在地方的立場來思考不要說從中央集權又集錢做了事情那就又沒感覺部長這5年來平均每年大概稅收都超徵多少跟委員報告109年是短徵的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
240.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
259.615 |
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不要講短證,我說超證的你算109年短證,那我請問你好,請問,110年超證多少?110年的部分,我看一下齁慢慢看不要急中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
261.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.513 |
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中央是110年是超過預算數是252注意聽喔!兩千多億是不是?三千兩百五十二億,但是我們要預算數十幾然後,111年稅收差在多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
279.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
299.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
中央部分是4千10千億喔注意聽喔超過3700億了再來112年超增多少?2千9接近3千喔113年超增多少?這目前來說還沒有到結束跟委員報告我們的持增數超過預算數基本上是拿去做減少舉債然後增加還債現在聖誕節這幾天我就不算了24號 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
309.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
322.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
今年12月24日之前累計稅收超增多少?我們目前來說預算在初估到年底的話中央的部分大概會超過預算數是3500億 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
352.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
但是我們要做...哇!那剛好啊!跟委員報告!國家的財政是不能...國家的財政是不能這樣算的第一個我們要減少舉債而且要還債而且要債務還本的其實大家都是皆大歡喜我這幾天想一想其實只有一個人可能不開心啊你可不可以回去問一下信賴的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
357.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們就是社會和諧、政黨和諧其實政治就是一種妥協啦不能說你拿去幾碗飯幾碗要吃 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
373.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
378.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
說不過去啦而且22縣市講難聽一點大家都平均都用得到嘛以前賴總統講的啊這個優先法案就是要通過財化法啊每個人都這樣啊老柯也講了啊換了一個執政換了一個腦袋而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
397.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
408.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
最重要的不管誰執政你做好的話下一次又換你做嘛22縣市沒有規定說哪一個縣市是規定有哪個黨來做你做得好就換人做啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
409.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
433.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你為什麼都沒有自信你好好做錢還是地方在用啊中央用、地方用還不是都一樣都是為人民在用這裡寫得很清楚啊國家事實上民眾第一啊永遠都是站在民眾的立場都來做另外我要來講的就是說你22縣市裡面有誰不開心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
434.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你名字講給我聽一下跟委員報告我覺得財政資源的一個配置必須要有一個公平跟合理性在裡面那如果說你像財政優勢裡面獲得更多的財政資源的話是不是合理跟委員報告我覺得這個國家的一個財政必須要好好審慎的考量你會不會因為少了這3700億中華民國馬上就多黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
465.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
494.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
委員所有的財源的分配都必須要考量施政你因為要有事權你才有支出那才有收入但是如果沒有考慮事權而只是中央大幅支出財源的話這個在財政來說必須對財政紀律要考量所以你心裡的希望就是你為天下那你就是講的說就是大家聽你的話立法院這裡一毛都不能刪你們的預算喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
495.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
511.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
三預算當然委員在審查預算的時候我剛算起來也不過才是十幾趴啊你講得那麼難過啊你那麼難過為什麼當初簽占這邊通過八千八百億的時候你都沒有和你一句為什麼均購四千億這邊三分鐘就通過有那麼困難嗎部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
517.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有那麼難嗎?部長,全世界都要聽你的,是不是?不聽你的,國家就會倒,是不是?不會吧?不是這樣子嗎?連商量的餘地都沒有?部長,你不能當到最後覺得你是武則天啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
536.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
560.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不可能的話我剛剛就講啊才30幾%而已假設就算10幾%你把它轉移過來中華民國還在啊為什麼要用這樣一直來威脅人民說什麼部會不行了什麼地方的這個經費少了影響權益會很大另外部長請問一下22縣市裡面負債的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
566.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
571.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
市跟縣有哪幾個?財務法通過統籌分配稅款下來了以後,它可不可以優先來還債? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
588.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
610.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我想我地方政府的財政資源因為統籌分配稅款是屬於地方的稅客收入但他們編預算經過議會同意由他們來致用所以這是落實地方自治的精神嗎另外我最後請教一個因為時間關係你每一年啊去年計劃型的補助是多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
612.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
623.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
計劃型的補助目前是在主計總署那邊控管,不在我們財政部你一問就知道啊,你們兩個應該都有聯絡啊大概是多少?計劃型的補助我看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
625.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
647.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個是2014年,2014年是2900,然後2013年計劃是2600,對。那就對啦,那你計劃性變少變成地方自主性變強,還不是一樣。那你看一下地方怎麼翻譯。有一句話啦,摸一手來出啦,存乎一心啦,要不要做而已啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
648.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
670.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
副長,我們在這邊等你等了快一年多,都等沒人了對啊,財劃法本來要請你趕快提出版本尊重你的想法跟看法結果我等了一年多我們都在努力當中啊有句歌叫等沒人了,但都等沒人,副長好,謝謝委員,謝謝好,謝謝明財接著請張其凱委員發言 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:01+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:02.102667+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
主席、各位委員、出列席官員大家好。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:02.102667+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:03.205333+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
可否請財政部莊部長？ |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:03.205333+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:04.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
請莊部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:04.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:04.748000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
莊部長你好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:05.188000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:05.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:06.769000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:14.293000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
財劃法通過以後，皆大歡喜，大家都感覺無比的興奮跟開心。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:15.373000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:18.375000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
你這幾天這樣聽起來，有沒有不開心的？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:20.068000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:34.839000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
跟委員報告，財劃法這個部分的修正，必須要相當的審慎，首先他涉及到地方財政的需求，要顧慮中央施政跟財政的韌性，以及財政規劃能力都要顧慮。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.903 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:34.839000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:38.701000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
另外，在水平分配的部分，也要能夠達到調劑財政盈虛…… |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:38.701000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:39.701000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
所以大家開不開心？ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:39.362000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:44.486000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
跟均衡區域發展，這個部分都要達到這樣一個目標。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:44.486000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2024-12-25T11:57:45.626000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
我覺得大家都很開心啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2024-12-25T11:57:46.447000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2024-12-25T11:58:01.716000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
你看，我從新北出生，我在立法院這一、二十年來，我一直爭取的，就是希望為地方爭取更多的財源，謀取更多的福利，造福地方、造福鄉梓。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.963 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2024-12-25T11:58:02.937000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2024-12-25T11:58:09.120000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
所以我們新北現在每年可以多三百七十幾億，哇！ |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2024-12-25T11:58:09.961000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2024-12-25T11:58:11.261000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
10年就是三千七百多億，讚！ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2024-12-25T11:58:14.669000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2024-12-25T11:58:24.335000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
新北重新要站起來，成為未來國際級的大都市，我們四百多萬的民眾都很開心啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.939 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2024-12-25T11:58:25.276000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2024-12-25T11:58:31.740000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
還有，身為多數的立委也很開心，你知道為什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2024-12-25T11:58:31.740000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2024-12-25T11:58:32.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
因為不用再打架了啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.778 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2024-12-25T11:58:34.266000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2024-12-25T11:58:48.450000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
為了財劃法你們沒提出，我們打得亂七八糟，打得東倒西歪、腰痠背痛，只有部長你坐在那邊也開開心心的，你都沒有受傷，也沒有腰痠背痛，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2024-12-25T11:58:48.450000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2024-12-25T11:58:49.591000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
所以大家都很開心啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2024-12-25T11:58:50.871000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2024-12-25T11:58:55.833000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
那22個縣市，我這樣問起來，每個人都很開心啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2024-12-25T11:58:56.513000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2024-12-25T11:58:59.574000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
因為他分配的金額都比以前多很多啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2024-12-25T11:59:00.514000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2024-12-25T11:59:01.475000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
部長，有誰不開心？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2024-12-25T11:59:01.475000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2024-12-25T11:59:02.475000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
跟委員報告…… |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2024-12-25T11:59:02.195000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2024-12-25T11:59:02.815000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
聽說只有一個人不大開心。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2024-12-25T11:59:03.015000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2024-12-25T11:59:19.824000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
我們不管是在公聽會也好，還有邀請一些相關機關來討論，以及許多學者都有提到財權跟事權要併同考量，在財權下放的時候，事權也要同時下放。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2024-12-25T11:59:20.045000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2024-12-25T11:59:32.130000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
因為財劃法對中央很重要的就是，事權要一併考量，所以如果只是考量錢，而沒有考量事權的話，那整個是一個傾斜的狀態，並不是合理的。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2024-12-25T11:59:32.130000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2024-12-25T11:59:33.130000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
所以這一次的調整…… |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2024-12-25T11:59:32.310000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2024-12-25T11:59:33.191000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
部長，現在這樣算起來，歲出一年大概總金額是多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.429 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2024-12-25T11:59:33.231000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2024-12-25T11:59:33.791000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
114年預算的話，歲出的編列是3兆1,325億。對啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.812 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2024-12-25T11:59:34.291000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2024-12-25T11:59:35.092000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
現在3,000都是10%而已啊，十幾%而已啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.533 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2024-12-25T11:59:52.046000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2024-12-25T11:59:54.909000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
中央有一些是法律義務性的支出，是不能減少的。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2024-12-25T11:59:55.189000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2024-12-25T12:00:03.837000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
所以事實上大家在看，與其給中央亂花錢，倒不如拿回來給地方基層來花。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2024-12-25T12:00:04.437000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2024-12-25T12:00:16.227000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
因為基層更多人眼睛在看，而且第一線大家的需求，有時候中央的官員在中央吹冷氣，不曉得地方的需求在哪裡。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2024-12-25T12:00:19.015000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2024-12-25T12:00:22.519000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
剛剛講這裡有百分之十幾，其實對你們來說也不痛不癢啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2024-12-25T12:00:23.360000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2024-12-25T12:00:30.348000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
我們每次在這邊審預算的時候，有時候一刪也是刪個10%、20%，也是不痛不癢啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.806 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2024-12-25T12:00:30.348000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2024-12-25T12:00:33.062000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
中央的預算編列，都是有施政計畫才編列預算。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2024-12-25T12:00:33.062000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2024-12-25T12:00:49.528000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
希望部長可以站在地方的立場來思考，不要說從中央集權又集錢，做的事情大家又沒感覺。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.892 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2024-12-25T12:00:49.528000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2024-12-25T12:00:50.528000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
沒有集權也沒有集錢，不會這樣子。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2024-12-25T12:00:49.528000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2024-12-25T12:00:55.550000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
部長，這5年來，平均每一年稅收大概都超徵多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.842 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2024-12-25T12:00:56.991000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2024-12-25T12:00:59.612000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
跟委員報告，109年是短徵的。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:01.338000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:09.125000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
你不要講短徵，我說超徵的，你說109年短徵，那我請問你…… |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.762 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:09.125000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:10.125000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
109年因為碰到Covid，事實上我們沒有收到預算數。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:09.626000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:12.528000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
好，沒關係，請問110年超徵多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.636 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:14.049000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:16.591000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
110年的部分我看一下…… |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:17.192000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:19.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
慢慢看，不要急。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:20.375000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:26.189000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
中央110年超過的預算數是3,252。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:28.290000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:28.670000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
注意聽喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:29.890000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:31.010000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
兩千多億是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:33.951000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:36.112000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
3,252億，但是我們預算實際……喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.636 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:38.052000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:39.493000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
三千多億，然後111年稅收超徵多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.538 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:40.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:42.583000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
中央部分是4,000億。 |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:42.583000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:43.583000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
4,000億嘍！ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:43.163000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:43.603000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
注意聽喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:43.863000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:45.104000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
超過3,700億嘍！ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:45.724000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:48.004000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
再來，112年超徵多少？2,900億。喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:48.004000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:52.466000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
2,900億接近3,000億嘍！ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.286 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:52.466000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:53.126000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
113年超徵多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:53.806000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2024-12-25T12:01:59.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
目前來說還沒到結束，跟委員報告，我們的實徵數超越預算數，基本上是拿去減少舉債，增加還債。 |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2024-12-25T12:01:59.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:00.468000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
沒關係，現在已經12月了，今天就是聖誕節，這幾天我就不算了…… |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.542 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:00.468000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:10.912000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
跟委員報告，我覺得這個部分還是要說清楚。 |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:10.912000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:14.857000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
今年12月24日之前，稅收累積超徵多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.786 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:16.579000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:27.551000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
我們目前預算初估到年底的話，中央的部分大概會超過預算數3,500億，但是我們要做……哇！ |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:27.571000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:28.071000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
那剛好啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:28.071000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:29.071000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
用這條來抵這條剛剛好。 |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:28.612000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:41.621000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
跟委員報告，國家的財政是不能這樣算的，我們要減少舉債，而且要還債，要債務還本的。 |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:42.101000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:43.962000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
我跟各位報告，其實大家都是皆大歡喜…… |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0.625 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:43.962000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:44.962000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
委員，國家的財政不是這樣算的…… |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:44.863000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:53.549000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
我這幾天想一想，其實只有一個人可能不開心，你可不可以回去問一下姓賴的總統？ |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.912 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:53.549000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:56.717000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
不會，跟委員報告，國家的財政要關注到財政的韌性，跟財政資源的妥善配置。 |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:56.717000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:57.718000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
好，如果他不會不開心，那我們就是社會和諧、政黨和諧。 |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0.545 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:57.718000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2024-12-25T12:02:58.158000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
其實政治就是一種妥協啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2024-12-25T12:02:58.298000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:15.231000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
不能整碗端走都要吃，說不過去啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:15.231000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:16.231000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
委員，不是不能討論…… |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:15.951000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:17.112000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
而且22個縣市，講難聽一點，大家都平均，都用得到嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:17.132000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:17.192000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
以前賴總統講的啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:17.212000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:18.212000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
這個優先法案，就是要通過財劃法，每個人都這樣啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0.952 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:18.232000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:18.832000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
老柯也講了啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:18.832000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:19.832000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
您看一下那時候中央給地方的財源是多少，是很少的。 |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:18.992000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:19.312000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
不能說換了一個執政，就換了一個腦袋。 |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:19.332000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:43.137000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
而且最重要的是，不管誰執政，你做好的話，下一次就換你做嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
0.92 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:44.560000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:49.848000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
22個縣市，沒有規定哪一個縣市是由哪個黨來做，你做得不好就換人做啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
0.897 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:51.172000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:51.953000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
為什麼那麼沒有自信？ |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
0.778 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:52.774000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2024-12-25T12:03:55.557000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
你好好做，錢還是地方在用啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2024-12-25T12:03:56.478000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:02.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
中央用、地方用，還不是都一樣，都是為人民在用，這裡寫得很清楚啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[85].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[85].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:02.684000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[85].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:07.829000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].text |
「國家至上、民眾第一」，永遠都是站在民眾的立場多多來做。 |
| transcript.gazette[85].quality |
0.87 |
| transcript.gazette[86].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[86].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:08.750000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[86].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:14.375000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].text |
另外我要問，22個縣市裡面，有誰不開心的？ |
| transcript.gazette[86].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[87].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[87].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:15.216000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[87].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:16.236000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].text |
名字講給我聽一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[87].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[88].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[88].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:16.456000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[88].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:22.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].text |
跟委員報告，我覺得財政資源的配置，必須要有一個公平跟合理性在裡面…… |
| transcript.gazette[88].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[89].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[89].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:22.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[89].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:23.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].text |
不是啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[89].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[90].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[90].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:23.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[90].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:24.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].text |
部長，我從開始就在問你…… |
| transcript.gazette[90].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[91].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[91].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:22.338000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[91].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:25.359000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].text |
如果您想在財政優勢裡獲得更多財政資源的話，這不合理。 |
| transcript.gazette[91].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[92].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[92].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:25.359000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[92].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:26.359000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].text |
有沒有人跟你反應他不開心？ |
| transcript.gazette[92].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[93].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[93].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:25.459000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[93].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:27.740000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].text |
跟委員報告，我覺得國家的財政，必須要好好審慎的考量。 |
| transcript.gazette[93].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[94].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[94].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:28.040000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[94].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:28.720000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].text |
好，那我問你，你會不會因為少了3,700億，中華民國馬上就「倒店」？ |
| transcript.gazette[94].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[95].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[95].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:46.049000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[95].end |
2024-12-25T12:04:59.998000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].text |
委員，所有財源的分配，都必須要考量施政，應該要有事權，才有支出，那才會有收入，但是如果沒有考慮事權，而只是中央大幅支出財源的話…… |
| transcript.gazette[95].quality |
0.946 |
| transcript.gazette[96].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[96].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:59.998000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[96].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:00.998000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].text |
所以你心裡的希望…… |
| transcript.gazette[96].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[97].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[97].start |
2024-12-25T12:04:59.998000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[97].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:02.660000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].text |
這個對財政來說，必須對財政紀律要考量的。 |
| transcript.gazette[97].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[98].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[98].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:02.820000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[98].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:15.309000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].text |
所以你心裡的希望，就是你為天下，大家要聽你的話，立法院一毛都不能刪你們的預算嘍？ |
| transcript.gazette[98].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[99].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[99].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:17.491000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[99].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:18.592000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].text |
當然委員在審查預算的時候…… |
| transcript.gazette[99].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[100].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[100].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:18.672000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[100].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:28.942000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].text |
照你這樣講，我剛剛算起來也不過才百分之十幾，你講得那麼難過，你那麼難過，為什麼當初前瞻在這邊通過8,800億的時候，你都沒有哼一句？ |
| transcript.gazette[100].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[101].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[101].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:29.743000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[101].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:32.026000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].text |
為什麼軍購4,000億，這邊三分鐘就通過？ |
| transcript.gazette[101].quality |
0.867 |
| transcript.gazette[102].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[102].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:32.026000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[102].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:32.446000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].text |
有那麼困難嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[102].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[103].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[103].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:32.446000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[103].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:38.242000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].text |
前瞻當時是為了推動國家的基礎建設…… |
| transcript.gazette[103].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[104].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[104].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:38.242000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[104].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:39.684000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].text |
有那麼難嗎？部長！ |
| transcript.gazette[104].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[105].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[105].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:39.684000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[105].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:42.428000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].text |
全世界都要聽你的是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[105].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[106].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[106].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:42.428000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[106].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:43.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].text |
沒有，不可能。 |
| transcript.gazette[106].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[107].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[107].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:43.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[107].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:45.331000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].text |
不聽你的國家就會倒是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[107].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[108].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[108].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:45.331000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[108].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:46.331000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].text |
沒有這個意思。 |
| transcript.gazette[108].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[109].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[109].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:45.692000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[109].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:45.932000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].text |
不會嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[109].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[110].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[110].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:47.875000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[110].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:48.555000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].text |
不是這樣子嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[110].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[111].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[111].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:50.598000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[111].end |
2024-12-25T12:05:55.704000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].text |
連商量的餘地都沒有，部長你不能當到最後覺得你是武則天啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[111].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[112].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[112].start |
2024-12-25T12:05:55.704000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[112].end |
2024-12-25T12:06:00.405000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].text |
不可能，我怎麼可能是武則天？ |
| transcript.gazette[112].quality |
0.25 |
| transcript.gazette[113].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[113].start |
2024-12-25T12:06:00.405000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[113].end |
2024-12-25T12:06:01.066000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].text |
不可能，我剛剛就講啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[113].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[114].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[114].start |
2024-12-25T12:06:01.506000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[114].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[114].end |
2024-12-25T12:06:09.994000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[114].text |
才百分之三十幾而已，假設就算百分之十幾，你把它轉移過來，中華民國還在啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[114].quality |
0.719 |
| transcript.gazette[115].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[115].start |
2024-12-25T12:06:10.914000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[115].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[115].end |
2024-12-25T12:06:18.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[115].text |
為什麼要這樣一直威脅人民，說什麼部會不行了，什麼地方的經費少了，影響權益會很大。 |
| transcript.gazette[115].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[116].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[116].start |
2024-12-25T12:06:19.742000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[116].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[116].end |
2024-12-25T12:06:29.295000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[116].text |
另外，請問一下部長，22個縣市裡面，負債的縣跟市有哪幾個？ |
| transcript.gazette[116].quality |
0.783 |
| transcript.gazette[117].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[117].start |
2024-12-25T12:06:29.295000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[117].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[117].end |
2024-12-25T12:06:30.295000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[117].text |
負債縣市的詳細資料，是否會後提供給委員？ |
| transcript.gazette[117].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[118].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[118].start |
2024-12-25T12:06:29.295000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[118].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[118].end |
2024-12-25T12:06:32.797000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[118].text |
好，財劃法通過統籌分配稅款下來了以後，地方可不可以優先來還債？ |
| transcript.gazette[118].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[119].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[119].start |
2024-12-25T12:06:49.220000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[119].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[119].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:00.170000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[119].text |
我想地方政府的財政資源，因為統籌分配稅款是屬於地方的稅課收入，他們編預算經過議會通議，由他們來支用。 |
| transcript.gazette[119].quality |
0.913 |
| transcript.gazette[120].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[120].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:01.832000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[120].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[120].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:03.594000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[120].text |
所以就是落實地方自治的精神對吧？ |
| transcript.gazette[120].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[121].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[121].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:03.594000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[121].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[121].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:05.696000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[121].text |
目前統籌分配稅款…… |
| transcript.gazette[121].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[122].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[122].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:05.696000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[122].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[122].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:11.901000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[122].text |
我最後請教一個，因為時間關係，去年計畫型的補助是多少錢？ |
| transcript.gazette[122].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[123].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[123].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:13.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[123].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[123].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:17.270000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[123].text |
計畫型的補助，目前是在主計總處那邊控管，不在我們財政部。 |
| transcript.gazette[123].quality |
0.92 |
| transcript.gazette[124].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[124].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:17.570000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[124].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[124].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:18.691000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[124].text |
對，但你一問就知道啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[124].quality |
0.778 |
| transcript.gazette[125].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[125].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:18.852000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[125].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[125].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:20.113000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[125].text |
你們兩個應該都有聯絡啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[125].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[126].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[126].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:20.633000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[126].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[126].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:21.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[126].text |
大概是多少？ |
| transcript.gazette[126].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[127].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[127].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:21.955000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[127].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[127].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:22.375000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[127].text |
計畫型的補助。 |
| transcript.gazette[127].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[128].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[128].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:24.417000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[128].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[128].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:32.733000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[128].text |
我看一下，114年是2,900億，然後113年計畫是2,600億。 |
| transcript.gazette[128].quality |
0.688 |
| transcript.gazette[129].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[129].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:34.633000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[129].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[129].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:35.153000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[129].text |
那就對了啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[129].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[130].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[130].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:36.154000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[130].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[130].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:40.695000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[130].text |
你計畫性變少，變成地方自主性變強，還不是一樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[130].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[131].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[131].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:40.915000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[131].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[131].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:41.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[131].text |
要看一下地方怎麼反應。 |
| transcript.gazette[131].quality |
0.7 |
| transcript.gazette[132].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[132].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:42.135000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[132].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[132].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:43.155000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[132].text |
有一句話啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[132].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[133].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[133].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:44.776000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[133].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[133].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:47.297000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[133].text |
「麻糬手內捽」，存乎一心啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[133].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[134].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[134].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:47.837000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[134].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[134].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:48.657000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[134].text |
要不要做而已。 |
| transcript.gazette[134].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[135].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[135].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:49.946000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[135].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[135].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:52.208000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[135].text |
部長，我們在那邊等你，等了快一年多，都「等無人」。 |
| transcript.gazette[135].quality |
0.789 |
| transcript.gazette[136].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[136].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:52.368000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[136].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[136].end |
2024-12-25T12:07:54.950000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[136].text |
怎麼會沒人，我都有來啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[136].quality |
0.3 |
| transcript.gazette[137].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[137].start |
2024-12-25T12:07:55.150000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[137].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[137].end |
2024-12-25T12:08:02.435000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[137].text |
財劃法本來要請你趕快提出版本，尊重你的想法跟看法…… |
| transcript.gazette[137].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[138].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[138].start |
2024-12-25T12:08:02.435000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[138].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[138].end |
2024-12-25T12:08:03.435000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[138].text |
我們也一直在努力當中啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[138].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[139].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[139].start |
2024-12-25T12:08:02.575000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[139].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[139].end |
2024-12-25T12:08:03.816000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[139].text |
結果我等了一年多！ |
| transcript.gazette[139].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[140].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[140].start |
2024-12-25T12:08:05.097000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[140].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[140].end |
2024-12-25T12:08:05.978000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[140].text |
我們都在努力當中。 |
| transcript.gazette[140].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[141].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[141].start |
2024-12-25T12:08:06.158000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[141].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[141].end |
2024-12-25T12:08:07.639000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[141].text |
有一首歌叫「等無人」啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[141].quality |
0.556 |
| transcript.gazette[142].speaker |
羅委員明才 |
| transcript.gazette[142].start |
2024-12-25T12:08:08.840000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[142].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[142].end |
2024-12-25T12:08:09.540000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[142].text |
都等不到人。 |
| transcript.gazette[142].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[143].speaker |
莊部長翠雲 |
| transcript.gazette[143].start |
2024-12-25T12:08:10.581000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[143].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[143].end |
2024-12-25T12:08:10.741000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[143].text |
謝謝委員，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[143].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[144].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[144].start |
2024-12-25T12:08:10.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[144].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[144].end |
2024-12-25T12:08:10.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[144].text |
謝謝明才。 |
| transcript.gazette[144].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[145].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[145].start |
2024-12-25T12:08:10.901000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[145].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[145].end |
2024-12-25T12:08:11.282000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[145].text |
接著請張啓楷委員發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[145].quality |
0.8 |
| gazette.lineno |
766 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
羅委員明才：（11時57分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員大家好。可否請財政部莊部長？ |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請莊部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
羅委員明才：莊部長你好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
莊部長翠雲：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
羅委員明才：財劃法通過以後，皆大歡喜，大家都感覺無比的興奮跟開心。你這幾天這樣聽起來，有沒有不開心的？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，財劃法這個部分的修正，必須要相當的審慎，首先他涉及到地方財政的需求，要顧慮中央施政跟財政的韌性，以及財政規劃能力都要顧慮。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
羅委員明才：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
莊部長翠雲：另外，在水平分配的部分，也要能夠達到調劑財政盈虛…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
羅委員明才：所以大家開不開心？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟均衡區域發展，這個部分都要達到這樣一個目標。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
羅委員明才：我覺得大家都很開心啊！你看，我從新北出生，我在立法院這一、二十年來，我一直爭取的，就是希望為地方爭取更多的財源，謀取更多的福利，造福地方、造福鄉梓。所以我們新北現在每年可以多三百七十幾億，哇！10年就是三千七百多億，讚！新北重新要站起來，成為未來國際級的大都市，我們四百多萬的民眾都很開心啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[10][1] |
還有，身為多數的立委也很開心，你知道為什麼？因為不用再打架了啊！為了財劃法你們沒提出，我們打得亂七八糟，打得東倒西歪、腰痠背痛，只有部長你坐在那邊也開開心心的，你都沒有受傷，也沒有腰痠背痛，對不對？所以大家都很開心啊！那22個縣市，我這樣問起來，每個人都很開心啊！因為他分配的金額都比以前多很多啊！部長，有誰不開心？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
羅委員明才：聽說只有一個人不大開心。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我們不管是在公聽會也好，還有邀請一些相關機關來討論，以及許多學者都有提到財權跟事權要併同考量，在財權下放的時候，事權也要同時下放。因為財劃法對中央很重要的就是，事權要一併考量，所以如果只是考量錢，而沒有考量事權的話，那整個是一個傾斜的狀態，並不是合理的。所以這一次的調整…… |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
羅委員明才：部長，現在這樣算起來，歲出一年大概總金額是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
莊部長翠雲：114年預算的話，歲出的編列是3兆1,325億。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
羅委員明才：對啊！現在3,000都是10%而已啊，十幾%而已啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
莊部長翠雲：中央有一些是法律義務性的支出，是不能減少的。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
羅委員明才：所以事實上大家在看，與其給中央亂花錢，倒不如拿回來給地方基層來花。因為基層更多人眼睛在看，而且第一線大家的需求，有時候中央的官員在中央吹冷氣，不曉得地方的需求在哪裡。剛剛講這裡有百分之十幾，其實對你們來說也不痛不癢啊！我們每次在這邊審預算的時候，有時候一刪也是刪個10%、20%，也是不痛不癢啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
莊部長翠雲：中央的預算編列，都是有施政計畫才編列預算。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
羅委員明才：希望部長可以站在地方的立場來思考，不要說從中央集權又集錢，做的事情大家又沒感覺。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
莊部長翠雲：沒有集權也沒有集錢，不會這樣子。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
羅委員明才：部長，這5年來，平均每一年稅收大概都超徵多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，109年是短徵的。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
羅委員明才：你不要講短徵，我說超徵的，你說109年短徵，那我請問你…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
莊部長翠雲：109年因為碰到Covid，事實上我們沒有收到預算數。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
羅委員明才：好，沒關係，請問110年超徵多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
莊部長翠雲：110年的部分我看一下…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
羅委員明才：慢慢看，不要急。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
莊部長翠雲：中央110年超過的預算數是3,252。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
羅委員明才：注意聽喔！兩千多億是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
莊部長翠雲：3,252億，但是我們預算實際…… |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
羅委員明才：喔！三千多億，然後111年稅收超徵多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
莊部長翠雲：中央部分是4,000億。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
羅委員明才：4,000億嘍！注意聽喔！超過3,700億嘍！再來，112年超徵多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
莊部長翠雲：2,900億。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
羅委員明才：喔！2,900億接近3,000億嘍！113年超徵多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
莊部長翠雲：目前來說還沒到結束，跟委員報告，我們的實徵數超越預算數，基本上是拿去減少舉債，增加還債。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
羅委員明才：沒關係，現在已經12月了，今天就是聖誕節，這幾天我就不算了…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我覺得這個部分還是要說清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
羅委員明才：今年12月24日之前，稅收累積超徵多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我們目前預算初估到年底的話，中央的部分大概會超過預算數3,500億，但是我們要做…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
羅委員明才：哇！那剛好啊！用這條來抵這條剛剛好。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，國家的財政是不能這樣算的，我們要減少舉債，而且要還債，要債務還本的。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
羅委員明才：我跟各位報告，其實大家都是皆大歡喜…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
莊部長翠雲：委員，國家的財政不是這樣算的…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
羅委員明才：我這幾天想一想，其實只有一個人可能不開心，你可不可以回去問一下姓賴的總統？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
莊部長翠雲：不會，跟委員報告，國家的財政要關注到財政的韌性，跟財政資源的妥善配置。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
羅委員明才：好，如果他不會不開心，那我們就是社會和諧、政黨和諧。其實政治就是一種妥協啦！不能整碗端走都要吃，說不過去啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
莊部長翠雲：委員，不是不能討論…… |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
羅委員明才：而且22個縣市，講難聽一點，大家都平均，都用得到嘛！以前賴總統講的啊！這個優先法案，就是要通過財劃法，每個人都這樣啊！老柯也講了啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
莊部長翠雲：您看一下那時候中央給地方的財源是多少，是很少的。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
羅委員明才：不能說換了一個執政，就換了一個腦袋。而且最重要的是，不管誰執政，你做好的話，下一次就換你做嘛！22個縣市，沒有規定哪一個縣市是由哪個黨來做，你做得不好就換人做啦！為什麼那麼沒有自信？你好好做，錢還是地方在用啊！中央用、地方用，還不是都一樣，都是為人民在用，這裡寫得很清楚啊！「國家至上、民眾第一」，永遠都是站在民眾的立場多多來做。另外我要問，22個縣市裡面，有誰不開心的？名字講給我聽一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我覺得財政資源的配置，必須要有一個公平跟合理性在裡面…… |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
羅委員明才：不是啦！部長，我從開始就在問你…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
莊部長翠雲：如果您想在財政優勢裡獲得更多財政資源的話，這不合理。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
羅委員明才：有沒有人跟你反應他不開心？ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我覺得國家的財政，必須要好好審慎的考量。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
羅委員明才：好，那我問你，你會不會因為少了3,700億，中華民國馬上就「倒店」？ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
莊部長翠雲：委員，所有財源的分配，都必須要考量施政，應該要有事權，才有支出，那才會有收入，但是如果沒有考慮事權，而只是中央大幅支出財源的話…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
羅委員明才：所以你心裡的希望…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
莊部長翠雲：這個對財政來說，必須對財政紀律要考量的。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
羅委員明才：所以你心裡的希望，就是你為天下，大家要聽你的話，立法院一毛都不能刪你們的預算嘍？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
莊部長翠雲：當然委員在審查預算的時候…… |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
羅委員明才：照你這樣講，我剛剛算起來也不過才百分之十幾，你講得那麼難過，你那麼難過，為什麼當初前瞻在這邊通過8,800億的時候，你都沒有哼一句？為什麼軍購4,000億，這邊三分鐘就通過？有那麼困難嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
莊部長翠雲：前瞻當時是為了推動國家的基礎建設…… |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
羅委員明才：有那麼難嗎？部長！全世界都要聽你的是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
莊部長翠雲：沒有，不可能。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
羅委員明才：不聽你的國家就會倒是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
莊部長翠雲：沒有這個意思。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
羅委員明才：不會嘛！不是這樣子嘛！連商量的餘地都沒有，部長你不能當到最後覺得你是武則天啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
莊部長翠雲：不可能，我怎麼可能是武則天？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
羅委員明才：不可能，我剛剛就講啊！才百分之三十幾而已，假設就算百分之十幾，你把它轉移過來，中華民國還在啊！為什麼要這樣一直威脅人民，說什麼部會不行了，什麼地方的經費少了，影響權益會很大。另外，請問一下部長，22個縣市裡面，負債的縣跟市有哪幾個？ |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
莊部長翠雲：負債縣市的詳細資料，是否會後提供給委員？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
羅委員明才：好，財劃法通過統籌分配稅款下來了以後，地方可不可以優先來還債？ |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我想地方政府的財政資源，因為統籌分配稅款是屬於地方的稅課收入，他們編預算經過議會通議，由他們來支用。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
羅委員明才：所以就是落實地方自治的精神對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
莊部長翠雲：目前統籌分配稅款…… |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
羅委員明才：我最後請教一個，因為時間關係，去年計畫型的補助是多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
莊部長翠雲：計畫型的補助，目前是在主計總處那邊控管，不在我們財政部。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
羅委員明才：對，但你一問就知道啊！你們兩個應該都有聯絡啊！大概是多少？計畫型的補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我看一下，114年是2,900億，然後113年計畫是2,600億。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
羅委員明才：那就對了啊！你計畫性變少，變成地方自主性變強，還不是一樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
莊部長翠雲：要看一下地方怎麼反應。 |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
羅委員明才：有一句話啦！「麻糬手內捽」，存乎一心啦！要不要做而已。部長，我們在那邊等你，等了快一年多，都「等無人」。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
莊部長翠雲：怎麼會沒人，我都有來啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
羅委員明才：財劃法本來要請你趕快提出版本，尊重你的想法跟看法…… |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我們也一直在努力當中啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
羅委員明才：結果我等了一年多！ |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我們都在努力當中。 |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
羅委員明才：有一首歌叫「等無人」啦！都等不到人。 |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
主席：謝謝明才。接著請張啓楷委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
106 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-20-13 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-12-25 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1141203 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1141203_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查「菸酒稅法」 10 案：( 一) 行政院函請審議、本院委員李柏毅等 16 人、委員賴惠員等16
人、委員郭國文等 18 人、委員吳琪銘等 16 人分別擬具「菸酒稅法部分條文修正草案」等 5 案、
(二)本院委員徐巧芯等29人擬具「菸酒稅法第十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員賴士葆等
27人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等20人、委員張智倫等18人分別擬具「菸酒稅法第十九
條及第二十一條條文修正草案」等3案、(四)本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「菸酒稅法第十九條及
第二十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查「使用牌照稅法」8案：(一) 行政院函請審議、本院委
員賴士葆等24人、委員陳菁徽等17人、委員張智倫等18人、委員陳素月等19人、委員賴惠員等17
人、委員郭國文等16人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第二十九條、第三十條及第三十一條條文修正草
案」等7案、(二) 本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「使用牌照稅法第三十條及第三十一條條文修正草
案」案；三、審查行政院函請審議、本院委員賴士葆等21人、委員林楚茵等18人、委員徐巧芯等
27人、委員賴惠員等17人、委員郭國文等17人分別擬具「土地稅法第五十四條條文修正草案」等
6案；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，關於財政部主管中國
輸出入銀行、臺灣金融控股股份有限公司（含臺灣銀行股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公
司、臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司）（僅詢答） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1141203_00001 |