| IVOD_ID |
157204 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157204 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T13:56:58+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T14:08:20+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:22 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/be8492a9d81d8eabfcdb16c7d45a46ae15c44cfb233885207384dc14fd4f58a55ffaa6d71c87aaa95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:56:58 - 14:08:20 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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楊委員瓊瓔 |
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楊委員瓊瓔 |
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楊委員瓊瓔 |
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楊委員瓊瓔 |
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楊委員瓊瓔 |
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楊委員瓊瓔 |
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楊委員瓊瓔 |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
5.652 |
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32.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
主席本席楊瓊瓔發言 邀請部長跟署長委員好部長 大家都沉痛的心情但是我們還是要實質討論一個政府應該是先知先覺當有了事情是有知有覺但是我現在看到的沒有先知先覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
53.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
甚至也沒有有知有覺,現在是不知不覺。從早上回答到現在,首先請問,在一個單位上任一年半,已經有81個理事、17個主管,難道你們的部門都沒發覺嗎?都沒發覺嗎?17個主管,都沒發覺嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
78.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
為什麼我們以往說勞動部是勞工的靠山對不對勞動部是勞工的靠山對不對對不對勞動部是勞工的靠山對不對那現在出現什麼勞動部帶頭當慣老闆整個的過程發生到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
89.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
101.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
非但沒有依法也沒有防範也沒有處置怎麼辦也沒有維護所以本期在這邊請教第一個到底是誰生的這麼樣破格到底是誰生的委員因為我那是在我上任前的事情我真的部長誰生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
119.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
135.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
有誰要吞嚕?誰生的?是你自己生嗎?你背後誰叫你生的?誰叫你生的?你要不要講出來?你自己要吞嚕?誰叫你生的?你要不要講?你要不要講?你不要講?你要講?誰指示你生的嘛? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
149.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
165.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
對不對 誰指示你生的 署長 你不要自己吞嚕啦 誰指示你生的 有沒有人指示你生你呈報到部裡頭 當然要呈報到部裡頭啊 誰指示你生的我們現在解決問題 還原真相 誰指示你生 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
175.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
194.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
發言委員 這個沒有指示申請這是因為有整個考量之後那依照程序簽報署長你有駕駛也好你不講你自己吞嚕我們繼續來討論81個離職在這樣的情況之下其中這一年半你們有沒有輔導有沒有有沒有輔導發言委員 這個是我們疏於做一些注意這樣的一個情況都沒有輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
204.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
209.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
來又說要法辦告密者從二月份到現在通通不知不覺造成這樣子的難過的事件發生怎麼對得起怎麼對得起你們都不講發現這麼嚴肅跳通的事情也沒有去輔導也沒有去了解什麼原因通通都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
236.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
243.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
為什麼?我們是政府耶!政府是人民的表率耶!離譜自己,不知不覺,真的不知不覺,麻木不忍! |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
258.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
267.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
哪有一個勞工的靠山勞動部竟然要由外圍來讓你知道事情怎麼可能會如此這個政府出了什麼問題你也不講誰指示你生發現這麼嚴肅的過程也沒有輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
284.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
289.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們自己勞動部一天到晚說我是勞工的保障者你自己帶頭當慣老闆而且還麻木不仁怎麼問怎麼問從早上問到現在沒有方向怎麼問沒有內容沒有過程所以我請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
314.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
339.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們執行職務遭受不法侵害這個預防的質疑這也是我們自己定的也是勞動部自己定的性騷擾大家發覺社會面向這有嚴肅的議題了不斷的公聽會不斷的討論大家不斷的提案不分藍綠白大家努力來去解決這個問題性騷擾防治法通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
343.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
370.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
至少它有一個嚇阻作用會不會將執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引的內容將職場霸凌的部分提升到法的位階會不會事情經過了那麼久你們有沒有一項可以告訴民眾告訴我們的勞工可以怎樣讓我們的勞工來放心你至少要做這個工作啊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
372.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
392.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
報告委員我是財主署長容我來說這簡單的回答我們現在依照職場霸凌法第6條第2項確實有職場不法其他預防的一些明確的條文規定那我們在事宜性質也訂了一個指引所以早上部長有跟其他委員做一些口頭的回答說我們這個指引的法效性在做強化這部分我們會做後面這個職場法修法的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
394.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
408.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們現在這個治安法的預告應該是在預告版本的時候把這個條文一起納出來討論應該是在下個會期我們希望治安法這個修法包括這不法侵害的強化性的條文在下個會期能夠到立法院來做請委員來跟我們做一些質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
412.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
427.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
已經碰到這麼嚴肅的議題我們立法要有經過預告程序然後到行政院去審核再會到送到那個立法院來做審查那你就明白讓他們在整個過程你們已經有這個指引你們有沒有有依照這個指引來輔導這個無信 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
429.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
429.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
每一個社會層面層層相扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
448.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
474.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以你現在給本席回答的也就是你認為必須要將執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引的部分必須要位階提高拉到法的一個層次而且去明定之而且他的整個強化整個實際的救濟管道讓他非常的明確而不是投訴無門由外圍來包圍內部跟委員報告是不是如此請告訴本席方向是不是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
475.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
495.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
報告委員現在目前勞工如果在工作職場上面受到他們職場裡面的霸凌依照我們的辦法規定他是當然是內部的僱主在處理預防的程序來做處置如果沒有處置被我們勞檢機構去查到之後通知改善不改善我們現在法系就有罰3到15萬這樣子的罰效性你請委是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
496.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
524.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們來討論一個實質問題剛剛你所屬的主管所講的我們有什麼法有什麼指引但是我說的麻木不仁都沒有做造成今天的憾事你心裡作何感想您告訴我們說這一位人員禮拜五你要公佈他要到哪個單位去對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
526.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
550.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
是不是?是不是?委員,我會馬上對他作出處分。你說什麼?我會馬上對他作出處分。不是,你早上有回答嗎?我們在看啊。你說你會在禮拜五的時候22號去公佈,是嗎?他要到哪個單位?是不是如此?我想會比禮拜五更早。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
551.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
565.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
會比禮拜五更早好 不管這個時間因為早上你的回答是禮拜五所以本席也要預防性的告訴你當他到哪一個單位會不會製造另一個單位的恐慌會不會你要怎麼處理你要如何怎樣去心理諮商大家會不會有另外一個轉移戰場的一個恐慌會不會不是把他丟到哪一個單位就沒事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
580.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
606.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
部長你沒想到這一點當然當然那你怎麼做你說未必禮拜五今天禮拜三明天禮拜四你原本在早上說禮拜五公佈那你有做本席剛剛所說的嗎我想委員會也都做出建議的處分方式委員會做出建議的處分你是部長本席要請教當他到任何一個單位那會不會製造另外一個單位的一個恐慌 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
609.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
631.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你怎麼預防?你怎麼安撫?你怎麼心理智商?你怎麼做?不要再製造另外一個恐慌的這個職場。要怎麼做?要怎麼做?委員我會對他做出停止的處分。你會對他做出停止的處分?是。什麼時候? |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
634.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
634.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
655.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
656.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 謝謝委員好 謝謝委員 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2024-11-20T13:57:03.652000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2024-11-20T13:57:15.958000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請部長跟署長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
何部長佩珊 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2024-11-20T13:57:15.958000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2024-11-20T13:57:16.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2024-11-20T13:57:17.579000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2024-11-20T13:57:22.721000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
部長，大家都是沉痛的心情，但是我們還是要實質討論。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2024-11-20T13:57:22.721000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2024-11-20T13:57:37.651000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
一個政府應該是先知先覺，當有了事情是有知有覺，但是我現在看到的是沒有先知先覺，甚至也沒有有知有覺，現在是不知不覺。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.981 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2024-11-20T13:57:37.651000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2024-11-20T13:57:49.617000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
從早上回答到現在，首先請問在一個單位上任一年半，已經有81個人離職，其中有17個主管，難道你們的部門都沒發覺嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.872 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2024-11-20T13:57:49.617000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2024-11-20T13:57:49.937000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
17個主管耶，都沒發覺嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.556 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2024-11-20T13:57:58.072000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2024-11-20T13:57:59.153000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
為什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2024-11-20T13:57:59.153000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2024-11-20T13:58:06.398000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
我們以往說勞動部是勞工的靠山，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2024-11-20T13:58:06.398000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2024-11-20T13:58:11.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
勞動部是勞工的靠山，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2024-11-20T13:58:11.501000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2024-11-20T13:58:14.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
勞動部是勞工的靠山，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2024-11-20T13:58:14.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2024-11-20T13:58:15.603000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
那現在出現什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2024-11-20T13:58:15.603000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2024-11-20T13:58:16.264000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
勞動部帶頭當慣老闆！ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2024-11-20T13:58:16.264000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2024-11-20T13:58:34.511000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
整個的過程發生到現在，非但沒有依法，也沒有防範，也沒有處置，怎麼辦？ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2024-11-20T13:58:34.511000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2024-11-20T13:58:36.753000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
也沒有維護，所以本席在這邊請教第一個問題，這個人到底是誰升的？ |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2024-11-20T13:58:37.573000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2024-11-20T13:58:37.873000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
這麼樣破格到底是誰升的？ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
何部長佩珊 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2024-11-20T13:58:37.953000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2024-11-20T13:58:39.715000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
因為那是在我上任前的事情，我真的…… |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2024-11-20T13:58:39.755000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2024-11-20T13:58:39.775000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
署長，誰升的？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
蔡署長孟良 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2024-11-20T13:58:39.775000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:00.540000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
報告委員，那個是在我任內。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:00.540000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:04.302000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
對，是你自己升的嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.625 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:04.302000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:05.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
你背後誰叫你升的？ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
蔡署長孟良 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:05.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:06.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
我任內…… |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:06.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:07.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
請教你！ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
蔡署長孟良 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:07.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:08.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
這個要呈報到本部。對啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:06.643000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:07.364000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
誰叫你升的？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:08.324000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:09.225000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
你要不要講出來？ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:09.225000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:10.365000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
難道你自己要吞下？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.625 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:10.566000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:11.086000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
誰叫你升的？ |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:12.026000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:12.387000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
你要不要講？ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
蔡署長孟良 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:12.387000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:13.387000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
報告委員，這個…… |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:12.387000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:12.847000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
你要不要講？ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:12.907000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:13.167000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
要不要講？ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:13.167000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:28.641000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
你要講是誰指示你升的嘛，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:28.641000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:32.403000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
誰指示你升的？署長！ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:32.403000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:35.184000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
你不要自己吞了啦，誰指示你升的？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:36.845000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:37.566000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
有沒有人指示你升？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:40.067000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:41.888000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
你呈報到部裡頭，當然要呈報到部裡頭啊，誰指示你升的？ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:42.048000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2024-11-20T13:59:43.549000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
我們現在解決問題、還原真相，誰指示你升？ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
蔡署長孟良 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2024-11-20T13:59:54.595000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2024-11-20T14:00:01.838000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
報告委員，這個沒有指示升遷，這是因為整個考量之後，依照程序呈報。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.821 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2024-11-20T14:00:01.838000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2024-11-20T14:00:05.459000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
署長，你有guts也好，你不講就你自己吞了。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.684 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2024-11-20T14:00:06.279000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2024-11-20T14:00:09.220000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
我們繼續來討論，81個人離職，在這樣的情況之下，其中這一年半，你們有沒有輔導？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.969 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2024-11-20T14:00:09.220000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2024-11-20T14:00:09.400000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
有沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
蔡署長孟良 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2024-11-20T14:00:09.740000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2024-11-20T14:00:11.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
報告委員，這是我們疏於注意這樣的情況。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2024-11-20T14:00:11.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2024-11-20T14:00:12.101000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
都沒有輔導！ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2024-11-20T14:00:22.410000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2024-11-20T14:00:26.393000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
來，又說要法辦告密者，從2月份到現在，完全不知不覺的造成這樣讓人難過的事件發生，怎麼對得起？ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2024-11-20T14:00:26.413000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2024-11-20T14:00:27.193000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
你們都不講，發現這麼嚴肅的事情，也沒有去輔導，也沒有去瞭解什麼原因，通通都沒有。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2024-11-20T14:00:54.431000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2024-11-20T14:00:57.152000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
為什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2024-11-20T14:00:57.152000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2024-11-20T14:01:01.274000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
我們是政府，政府是人民的表率耶！ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2024-11-20T14:01:01.294000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2024-11-20T14:01:01.294000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
離譜至極！ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2024-11-20T14:01:01.334000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2024-11-20T14:01:01.734000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
不知不覺，真的不知不覺，麻木不仁！ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2024-11-20T14:01:17.240000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2024-11-20T14:01:24.502000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
一個勞工的靠山勞動部竟然要由外圍來讓你知道事情，怎麼可能會如此？ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2024-11-20T14:01:24.522000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2024-11-20T14:01:24.702000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
這個政府出了什麼問題？ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2024-11-20T14:01:24.702000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2024-11-20T14:01:47.030000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
你也不講誰指示你升，發現這麼嚴肅的過程也沒有輔導，勞動部一天到晚說是勞工的保障者，你自己帶頭當慣老闆，而且還麻木不仁，怎麼問？ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.982 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2024-11-20T14:01:47.070000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2024-11-20T14:01:47.591000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
從早上問到現在沒有方向，怎麼問？ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2024-11-20T14:01:47.591000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2024-11-20T14:01:47.751000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
沒有內容，沒有過程。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2024-11-20T14:01:47.871000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2024-11-20T14:02:56.384000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
本席要請問，執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引也是勞動部自己訂定的，像是性騷擾，大家發覺在社會面向有這樣嚴肅的議題，所以不斷的有公聽會，不斷的討論，大家不斷的提案，不分藍綠白，大家努力去解決這個問題，性騷擾防治法通過了，至少有一個嚇阻作用，所以可不可以用執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引的內容，將職場霸凌的部分提升到法的位階？ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.855 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2024-11-20T14:02:56.384000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2024-11-20T14:02:57.584000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
會不會這樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2024-11-20T14:02:57.584000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2024-11-20T14:03:08.990000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
事情經過了那麼久，你們有沒有一項可以告訴民眾，告訴我們的勞工，可以怎樣讓勞工放心，你至少要做這個工作啊，部長！ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
鄒署長子廉 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2024-11-20T14:03:10.046000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2024-11-20T14:03:12.689000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
報告委員，我是職安署署長，容我來簡單的回答。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.842 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
鄒署長子廉 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2024-11-20T14:03:13.309000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2024-11-20T14:03:30.465000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
我們現在依照職安法第六條第二項確實有一些職場不法預防的明確條文規定，我們最近也訂了一個指引，所以早上部長有跟其他委員做一些口頭的回答，有關強化指引的法效性這部分，我們會在做職安法的修法…… |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.841 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2024-11-20T14:03:30.465000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2024-11-20T14:03:32.677000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
多久拿出來？ |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
鄒署長子廉 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2024-11-20T14:03:32.677000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2024-11-20T14:03:46.422000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
我們現在職安法的預告，應該是在預告版本的時候把這個條文一起納進來討論，應該是在下個會期，我們希望職安法的修法包括不法侵害的強化性條文，在下個會期能夠送到立法院請委員跟我們做一些指教。暈倒！ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.898 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2024-11-20T14:03:50.605000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2024-11-20T14:03:53.408000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
已經碰到這麼嚴肅的議題…… |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
鄒署長子廉 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2024-11-20T14:03:53.408000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2024-11-20T14:03:55.630000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
報告委員，我們立法要經過預告程序……當然！ |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.647 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
鄒署長子廉 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2024-11-20T14:03:55.950000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2024-11-20T14:04:00.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
然後報到行政院去審核，再送到立法院審查。 |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2024-11-20T14:04:00.995000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2024-11-20T14:04:05.860000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
那就平白在整個過程裡，你們已經有這個指引，你們有沒有依照這個指引來輔導這個吳姓職員？ |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
鄒署長子廉 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2024-11-20T14:04:05.860000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2024-11-20T14:04:06.860000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
報告委員，這是兩個層次，吳姓人員是適用公務員相關辦法的規定……當然！ |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
鄒署長子廉 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2024-11-20T14:04:06.860000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2024-11-20T14:04:07.860000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
一個是我這個職安法的規定，剛才委員垂詢的是在職安法的體系裡面有關法效性的拉高，我們會立刻來做法制上的處理。 |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2024-11-20T14:04:07.562000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2024-11-20T14:04:48.006000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
第一個，每一個社會層面層層相扣，所以你現在給本席回答的也就是你認為執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引的部分必須要提高位階，拉高到法的層次，而且去明定之，而且要讓整個實際的救濟管道非常的明確，而不是投訴無門，由外圍來包圍內部。 |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0.921 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
鄒署長子廉 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2024-11-20T14:04:48.486000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2024-11-20T14:04:49.006000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
跟委員報告，現在…… |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2024-11-20T14:04:49.306000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2024-11-20T14:04:50.266000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
是不是如此？ |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2024-11-20T14:04:50.606000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2024-11-20T14:04:52.727000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
請告訴本席，方向是不是如此？ |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
鄒署長子廉 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2024-11-20T14:04:53.467000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2024-11-20T14:05:11.612000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
報告委員，目前勞工如果在工作職場上受到職場裡面的霸凌，依照我們的辦法規定，當然是內部的雇主要處理，以預防的程序來處置，如果沒有處置被我們勞檢機構查到之後，通知改善而不改善，現在就有罰3到15萬這樣的法效性。 |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.946 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2024-11-20T14:05:11.732000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2024-11-20T14:05:12.513000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
你請回。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2024-11-20T14:05:13.293000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2024-11-20T14:05:18.150000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
部長，我們來討論一個實質問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2024-11-20T14:05:18.150000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2024-11-20T14:05:33.073000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
剛剛你所屬的主管所講的我們有什麼法、有什麼指引，但是我說的是麻木不仁都沒有做，造成今天的憾事，你心裡做何感想？ |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2024-11-20T14:05:35.213000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2024-11-20T14:05:42.955000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
您告訴我們，禮拜五要公布這位人員要到哪個單位去，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0.76 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
何部長佩珊 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2024-11-20T14:05:49.926000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2024-11-20T14:05:52.607000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
委員，我會馬上對他做出處分。 |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2024-11-20T14:05:53.208000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2024-11-20T14:05:53.968000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
你說什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
何部長佩珊 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2024-11-20T14:05:53.968000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2024-11-20T14:05:55.488000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
我會馬上對他做出處分。 |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2024-11-20T14:05:56.369000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:07.493000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
不是，你早上有回答，你說你會在22日禮拜五公布他要到哪個單位，是不是如此？ |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
0.935 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
何部長佩珊 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:07.553000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:10.435000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
我想會比禮拜五更早。 |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:10.675000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:18.678000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
好，不管這個時間，因為早上你的回答是禮拜五，所以本席也要預防性的告訴你，當他到哪一個單位會不會製造另一個單位的恐慌？ |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:18.878000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:18.978000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
會不會？ |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:18.978000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:19.198000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
你要怎麼處理？ |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:19.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:20.498000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
你要怎樣去心理諮商，大家會不會有另外一個轉移戰場的恐慌？ |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[85].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[85].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:21.579000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[85].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:23.279000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].text |
不是把他丟到哪一個單位就沒事了。 |
| transcript.gazette[85].quality |
0.933 |
| transcript.gazette[86].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[86].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:38.506000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[86].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:40.288000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].text |
部長，你有沒有想到這一點？ |
| transcript.gazette[86].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[87].speaker |
何部長佩珊 |
| transcript.gazette[87].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:40.288000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[87].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:40.448000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].text |
當然、當然。 |
| transcript.gazette[87].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[88].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[88].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:41.048000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[88].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:41.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].text |
那你怎麼做？ |
| transcript.gazette[88].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[89].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[89].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:42.049000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[89].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:47.594000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].text |
你說會比禮拜五更早，今天禮拜三，明天禮拜四，你原本在早上是說禮拜五要公布。 |
| transcript.gazette[89].quality |
0.788 |
| transcript.gazette[90].speaker |
何部長佩珊 |
| transcript.gazette[90].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:51.858000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[90].end |
2024-11-20T14:06:54.400000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].text |
我想委員會也都做出建議的處分方式。 |
| transcript.gazette[90].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[91].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[91].start |
2024-11-20T14:06:54.800000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[91].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:04.148000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].text |
委員會做出建議的處分，你是部長，本席要請教，當他到任何一個單位，那會不會製造另外一個單位的恐慌？當然。 |
| transcript.gazette[91].quality |
0.956 |
| transcript.gazette[92].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[92].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:04.148000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[92].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:07.399000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].text |
你既然說當然，你怎麼做？ |
| transcript.gazette[92].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[93].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[93].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:07.399000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[93].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:08.620000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].text |
你怎麼預防？ |
| transcript.gazette[93].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[94].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[94].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:09.040000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[94].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:10.181000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].text |
你怎麼安撫？ |
| transcript.gazette[94].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[95].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[95].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:11.982000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[95].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:12.302000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].text |
你怎麼做心理諮商？ |
| transcript.gazette[95].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[96].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[96].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:12.302000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[96].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:13.903000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].text |
你有沒有做？ |
| transcript.gazette[96].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[97].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[97].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:13.903000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[97].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:18.986000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].text |
不要再製造另外一個職場的恐慌，你要怎麼做？ |
| transcript.gazette[97].quality |
0.789 |
| transcript.gazette[98].speaker |
何部長佩珊 |
| transcript.gazette[98].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:21.907000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[98].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:23.628000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].text |
委員，我會對他做出停職的處分。 |
| transcript.gazette[98].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[99].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[99].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:25.970000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[99].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:28.751000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].text |
你會對他做出停職的處分？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[99].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[100].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[100].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:29.752000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[100].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:29.852000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].text |
什麼時候？ |
| transcript.gazette[100].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[101].speaker |
何部長佩珊 |
| transcript.gazette[101].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:29.852000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[101].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:34.650600+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].text |
在最快的時間內。 |
| transcript.gazette[101].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[102].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[102].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:34.650600+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[102].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:39.449200+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].text |
最快的時間，所以你早上講22號這個禮拜五要把他調到其他單位，這個是不成立了？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[102].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[103].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[103].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:39.449200+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[103].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:44.247800+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].text |
你預計要做停職的處分，是不是？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[103].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[104].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[104].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:44.247800+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[104].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:49.046400+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].text |
但是在停職的當中，我們還是要把整個案件釐清楚，還原真相。當然。 |
| transcript.gazette[104].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[105].speaker |
楊委員瓊瓔 |
| transcript.gazette[105].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:49.046400+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[105].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:53.845000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].text |
我們不希望再有這種憾事發生，那剛剛所說的，該當位階要提升的務必要加強腳步，勞動部是勞工的靠山，我不希望竟然是勞動部帶頭做慣老闆，這個是離譜至極！ |
| transcript.gazette[105].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[106].speaker |
何部長佩珊 |
| transcript.gazette[106].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:53.845000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[106].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:53.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].text |
好，謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[106].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[107].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[107].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:53.905000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[107].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:54.005000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].text |
謝謝委員，謝謝部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[107].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[108].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[108].start |
2024-11-20T14:07:54.505000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[108].end |
2024-11-20T14:07:57.362143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].text |
接續請黃健豪委員發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[108].quality |
0 |
| gazette.lineno |
1574 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：（13時57分）主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請部長跟署長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
何部長佩珊：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：部長，大家都是沉痛的心情，但是我們還是要實質討論。一個政府應該是先知先覺，當有了事情是有知有覺，但是我現在看到的是沒有先知先覺，甚至也沒有有知有覺，現在是不知不覺。從早上回答到現在，首先請問在一個單位上任一年半，已經有81個人離職，其中有17個主管，難道你們的部門都沒發覺嗎？17個主管耶，都沒發覺嗎？為什麼？我們以往說勞動部是勞工的靠山，對不對？勞動部是勞工的靠山，對不對？勞動部是勞工的靠山，對不對？那現在出現什麼？勞動部帶頭當慣老闆！整個的過程發生到現在，非但沒有依法，也沒有防範，也沒有處置，怎麼辦？也沒有維護，所以本席在這邊請教第一個問題，這個人到底是誰升的？這麼樣破格到底是誰升的？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
何部長佩珊：因為那是在我上任前的事情，我真的…… |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：署長，誰升的？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
蔡署長孟良：報告委員，那個是在我任內。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：對，是你自己升的嗎？你背後誰叫你升的？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
蔡署長孟良：我任內…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：請教你！ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
蔡署長孟良：這個要呈報到本部。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！誰叫你升的？你要不要講出來？難道你自己要吞下？誰叫你升的？你要不要講？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
蔡署長孟良：報告委員，這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你要不要講？要不要講？你要講是誰指示你升的嘛，對不對？誰指示你升的？署長！你不要自己吞了啦，誰指示你升的？有沒有人指示你升？你呈報到部裡頭，當然要呈報到部裡頭啊，誰指示你升的？我們現在解決問題、還原真相，誰指示你升？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
蔡署長孟良：報告委員，這個沒有指示升遷，這是因為整個考量之後，依照程序呈報。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：署長，你有guts也好，你不講就你自己吞了。我們繼續來討論，81個人離職，在這樣的情況之下，其中這一年半，你們有沒有輔導？有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
蔡署長孟良：報告委員，這是我們疏於注意這樣的情況。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：都沒有輔導！來，又說要法辦告密者，從2月份到現在，完全不知不覺的造成這樣讓人難過的事件發生，怎麼對得起？你們都不講，發現這麼嚴肅的事情，也沒有去輔導，也沒有去瞭解什麼原因，通通都沒有。為什麼？我們是政府，政府是人民的表率耶！離譜至極！不知不覺，真的不知不覺，麻木不仁！一個勞工的靠山勞動部竟然要由外圍來讓你知道事情，怎麼可能會如此？這個政府出了什麼問題？你也不講誰指示你升，發現這麼嚴肅的過程也沒有輔導，勞動部一天到晚說是勞工的保障者，你自己帶頭當慣老闆，而且還麻木不仁，怎麼問？從早上問到現在沒有方向，怎麼問？沒有內容，沒有過程。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][1] |
本席要請問，執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引也是勞動部自己訂定的，像是性騷擾，大家發覺在社會面向有這樣嚴肅的議題，所以不斷的有公聽會，不斷的討論，大家不斷的提案，不分藍綠白，大家努力去解決這個問題，性騷擾防治法通過了，至少有一個嚇阻作用，所以可不可以用執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引的內容，將職場霸凌的部分提升到法的位階？會不會這樣？事情經過了那麼久，你們有沒有一項可以告訴民眾，告訴我們的勞工，可以怎樣讓勞工放心，你至少要做這個工作啊，部長！ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
鄒署長子廉：報告委員，我是職安署署長，容我來簡單的回答。我們現在依照職安法第六條第二項確實有一些職場不法預防的明確條文規定，我們最近也訂了一個指引，所以早上部長有跟其他委員做一些口頭的回答，有關強化指引的法效性這部分，我們會在做職安法的修法…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：多久拿出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
鄒署長子廉：我們現在職安法的預告，應該是在預告版本的時候把這個條文一起納進來討論，應該是在下個會期，我們希望職安法的修法包括不法侵害的強化性條文，在下個會期能夠送到立法院請委員跟我們做一些指教。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：暈倒！已經碰到這麼嚴肅的議題…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
鄒署長子廉：報告委員，我們立法要經過預告程序…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：當然！ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
鄒署長子廉：然後報到行政院去審核，再送到立法院審查。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：那就平白在整個過程裡，你們已經有這個指引，你們有沒有依照這個指引來輔導這個吳姓職員？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
鄒署長子廉：報告委員，這是兩個層次，吳姓人員是適用公務員相關辦法的規定…… |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：當然！ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
鄒署長子廉：一個是我這個職安法的規定，剛才委員垂詢的是在職安法的體系裡面有關法效性的拉高，我們會立刻來做法制上的處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：第一個，每一個社會層面層層相扣，所以你現在給本席回答的也就是你認為執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引的部分必須要提高位階，拉高到法的層次，而且去明定之，而且要讓整個實際的救濟管道非常的明確，而不是投訴無門，由外圍來包圍內部。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，現在…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：是不是如此？請告訴本席，方向是不是如此？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
鄒署長子廉：報告委員，目前勞工如果在工作職場上受到職場裡面的霸凌，依照我們的辦法規定，當然是內部的雇主要處理，以預防的程序來處置，如果沒有處置被我們勞檢機構查到之後，通知改善而不改善，現在就有罰3到15萬這樣的法效性。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你請回。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
鄒署長子廉：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我們來討論一個實質問題。剛剛你所屬的主管所講的我們有什麼法、有什麼指引，但是我說的是麻木不仁都沒有做，造成今天的憾事，你心裡做何感想？您告訴我們，禮拜五要公布這位人員要到哪個單位去，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
何部長佩珊：委員，我會馬上對他做出處分。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你說什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
何部長佩珊：我會馬上對他做出處分。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：不是，你早上有回答，你說你會在22日禮拜五公布他要到哪個單位，是不是如此？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
何部長佩珊：我想會比禮拜五更早。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：好，不管這個時間，因為早上你的回答是禮拜五，所以本席也要預防性的告訴你，當他到哪一個單位會不會製造另一個單位的恐慌？會不會？你要怎麼處理？你要怎樣去心理諮商，大家會不會有另外一個轉移戰場的恐慌？不是把他丟到哪一個單位就沒事了。部長，你有沒有想到這一點？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
何部長佩珊：當然、當然。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：那你怎麼做？你說會比禮拜五更早，今天禮拜三，明天禮拜四，你原本在早上是說禮拜五要公布。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
何部長佩珊：我想委員會也都做出建議的處分方式。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：委員會做出建議的處分，你是部長，本席要請教，當他到任何一個單位，那會不會製造另外一個單位的恐慌？ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
何部長佩珊：當然。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你既然說當然，你怎麼做？你怎麼預防？你怎麼安撫？你怎麼做心理諮商？你有沒有做？不要再製造另外一個職場的恐慌，你要怎麼做？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
何部長佩珊：委員，我會對他做出停職的處分。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你會對他做出停職的處分？ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
何部長佩珊：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：什麼時候？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
何部長佩珊：在最快的時間內。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：最快的時間，所以你早上講22號這個禮拜五要把他調到其他單位，這個是不成立了？ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
何部長佩珊：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你預計要做停職的處分，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
何部長佩珊：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：但是在停職的當中，我們還是要把整個案件釐清楚，還原真相。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
何部長佩珊：當然。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：我們不希望再有這種憾事發生，那剛剛所說的，該當位階要提升的務必要加強腳步，勞動部是勞工的靠山，我不希望竟然是勞動部帶頭做慣老闆，這個是離譜至極！ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
何部長佩珊：好，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
主席：謝謝委員，謝謝部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][1] |
接續請黃健豪委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
360 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-26-9 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[33] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[34] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[35] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[36] |
柯志恩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[37] |
萬美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
231 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-20 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310201 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310201_00010 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試
院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作
業」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310201_00012 |