| IVOD_ID |
157025 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157025 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-35-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-18T11:27:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-18T11:38:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/37ff27132e477e873f0b07fa9db54634fa9b21d42de11d19d5656bc25be71a67147423978a1619b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:27:35 - 11:38:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局局長、數位發展部、法務部調查局、內政部警政署、國家科學及技術委員會報告「AI技術在資安、深偽（Deepfake）影片及錯假訊息之影響評估及因應」，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席,請各位先進。有請管局的張副局長、事務發部的林次長、法務部調查局的吳副局長、警政署的林副局長,好不好一起,請跟他們關係。委員好。那我們看一下,這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
49.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我看了一些資料不知道國安局長官可不可以回答或者調查局怎麼樣因應頻繁的AI資安攻擊過去半年內臺灣每個禮拜遭受2934的網路攻擊是全球平均被攻擊的2.7倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.403 |
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61.457 |
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我們是AI之島結果變成是被攻擊之島這個國安局長會不會先講一下我們KPI是什麼這個怎麼因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.437 |
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88.018 |
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謝謝委員 這個問題確實是非常重要跟嚴峻那尤其AI的AI尤其生成室出來以後他很容易製造出一些仿真的釣魚郵件還有呢他很容易去歸納去分析系統防禦的漏洞所以呢這個攻擊的太陽會越來越多然後速度會越來越快 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
88.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
109.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以這個部分為什麼台灣為什麼大家對台灣這麼有興趣為什麼呢?為什麼這個樣子?我想這個應該是一個普遍的現象普遍喔?全世界喜歡攻擊台灣台灣因為我們有目前因為主要的攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
111.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
121.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
跟委員報告那我想這個是一個趨勢所以剛提的如何因應趨勢喔你怎麼講趨勢呢這個好像我活該被攻擊怎麼這樣子講呢趨勢現在攻擊台灣是趨勢你說對還說不對我講的是AI的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
130.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你怎麼做?你們國安局有沒有針對這個事情立一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
143.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
164.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
專案討論還是立一個什麼因應小組什麼專門針對這個?根據委員報告有,我們局裡在幾年前我們就成立了一個小組去蜜注這個AI的技術,我們不只用坊間的啊怎麼會是成立幾年了,這個怎麼會越被攻擊越來越多怎麼會這樣子,怎麼會一塌糊塗,沒辦法,沒辦法攔住 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
168.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
177.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
包委員,供給發息我們不可控,可是我們可以有效的防禦,這是我們可以做的。越防禦越多啊,來來來,請教蘇華部的市長、林市長,這個現象怎麼樣避免啊,怎麼會我們這麼慘啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
185.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
208.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
是先跟委員報告我們台灣受到很多的資安攻擊這的確是事實因為我們都知道美中現在已經進入第二次冷戰的那個態勢然後在那個Geopolitics上面我們台灣是在所謂的最前線所以會有一些境外不友善國家他們的那些平常有時候我覺得他們都是在練兵哪些國家是哪些國家的攻擊我們最有興趣哪幾個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
209.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
234.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
當然就是中國大陸還有北韓還有俄羅斯其實俄羅斯非常多俄羅斯會不會因為我們過去罵俄羅斯所以更多會不會有可能會是但是他們通常做這個攻擊他們就是為了彰顯一些政治的訴求所以我們對這種他們的政治訴求我們也不想要讓他們炒熱新聞我們就做好我們的防禦 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
236.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
240.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
對,也不是不要理他,我們要做成事前事終以及事後的防禦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
263.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
283.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
包委員,我們沒有這個機器狗,不過我們會關注AI在這個運用上。欸,你說機器狗現在已經加入川普的一個海服裝員的巡邏了,已經加入了。是,我們會密註,事實上我們一直有在密註AI它運用在軍事或其他的國安威脅的用途,這個情訊我們一直在長說。不不不,我唸,你不要岔題啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
286.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
304.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
國安局有沒有針對機器狗現在已經加入了這個一些的一個一些攻擊做一些防禦的措施有沒有機器狗這部分假如老共這是老共的老共如果弄機器狗來攻擊台灣我們有沒有一些因應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
307.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
333.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個無人載具我們看到我們其實掌握到就是中國大陸那邊針對無人載具不僅機器狗無人機無人的潛航器無人艇發展都非常的快速結合他們AI的投資和投入這個我們相信這是未來我們非常持續要掌搜關注的議題那這個議題我們掌搜到以後我們會提供給相關單位來做參數 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
334.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
354.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們有沒有一套的一個因應的整個的做法有沒有還是還沒有還是在developing這個部分因為如果涉及軍事的話會有國防部他們會去做一些評估跟應處那對本局來講會掌收這種趨勢跟威脅來提供相關單位的應處這個什麼時候可以出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
357.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
378.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好 這個我們一直持續在掌受一直在持續做因為他也是一直在演進這個新的載具啊這個機器狗現在越來越popular這個你們要要針對這個做一些準備啦你可以看到我剛說過了這個川普的他的一個一個莊園都已經有機器狗在幫他巡邏了你可以看到好 最後一個這個各單位你聽好喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
388.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
407.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
行事警察局採購了深偽影像檢測平台花一千多萬法務部調查局這裡花了870萬高雄市行事警察大隊花了44萬數位部前瞻計劃研發多媒體建設平台1300萬零零總總 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
411.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
434.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
選舉期間,警政署、調查局還成立了AI深層深度偽造假訊息處理中心。我時間有些我就請教,國安局或者是數法部這裡,你們有沒有一個整合單位啊,就是對於AI這個深偽這一部分,專門成立一個小組把它整合一下,你看各單位都在 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
438.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
463.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
根委員報告事實上深偽這是徵訊根的一個延伸是手段的不同也就是說假訊息這個呈現的方式有文字有語音現在有影像越做越仿真加了AI技術以後事實上我本局跟我們相關政府機關和我們警政署幾個司法警察調查局我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
463.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
已經成立一個這種假訊息的防制的一個機制平臺所以針對這個AI在這樣的新的一個現象也在這個平臺我們會有討論透過這個剛剛看到這幾個部分有些是我們共同討論出來因為AI的發展太快速我們必須要有這些高新的一個AI技術設備我們才有辦法去因應這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
490.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
491.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
最後一個問題大家很關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
521.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
541.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
就是蔡英文前總統她被這個升委之後一天就找到IP了其他人都找不到啊幾個月都找不到啊包括鄭文燦的找不到包括這個其他我們的立委立委們這個弄了老半天找不到就是外界質疑啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
543.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
558.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你們在追這個事情的時候還大笑眼淚還看背後是誰受害哎呀這個蔡總統這個這個亮度很夠啊馬上一天你看拜託你們也很有能力啊其他人搞一個月都搞不到我這個東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
559.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
581.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
副局長要不要解釋一下發委員我們在處理這個訊息的過程有一套機制一套程序影響到國家安全或社會安寧這種影響擴大快速的話我們會優先來處理所以總統優先其他不優先發委員不是這樣就是說我們看到這樣的這個議題跟現象外界高度質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
581.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
590.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
就是看人在辦案啦不是因為身份啦是看他影響國安跟涉案的程度還有發生的現象立委是沒有涉國安都沒關係每天來現在立委就有被護照我們那個是有分級啦是一般民眾還是影響國安是阿沒有錯阿所以總統比較短阿時間快速阿立委就慢慢來阿立委不重要就這樣啊大小也就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
607.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
賴士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2024-11-18T11:27:35.309000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2024-11-18T11:27:51.038000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席及各位先進，有請國安局張副局長、數發部林次長、法務部調查局吳副局長、警政署林副局長，幾位長官一起。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0.83 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2024-11-18T11:27:51.578000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2024-11-18T11:27:51.618000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2024-11-18T11:27:52.999000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2024-11-18T11:28:12.158000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
請你們看一下螢幕的簡報資料，我看了一些資料，不知道國安局或調查局的長官可不可以回答，要怎麼樣因應頻繁的AI資安攻擊？ |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.722 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2024-11-18T11:28:12.158000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2024-11-18T11:28:36.397000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
過去半年內，臺灣每個禮拜遭受2,930次的網路攻擊，是全球平均被攻擊的2.7倍，我們是AI之島，結果變成是被攻擊之島，國安局長官要不要先講一下，我們的KPI是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.913 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2024-11-18T11:28:36.397000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2024-11-18T11:28:36.457000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
這個怎麼因應？ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2024-11-18T11:28:39.437000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:05.199000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
謝謝委員，這個問題確實是非常重要跟嚴峻，尤其AI，生成式AI出來以後，很容易製造出一些仿真的釣魚郵件，還有它很容易去歸納及分析系統防禦的漏洞，這個攻擊的態樣會越來越多，然後速度也越來越快，所以這個部分…… |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.913 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:07.441000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:09.223000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
為什麼大家對臺灣這麼有興趣？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:09.563000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:09.803000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
為什麼呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:10.564000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:11.024000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
為什麼這個樣子，你們分析過沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:11.845000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:15.207000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
我想這個應該是一個普遍的現象，臺灣…… |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:15.748000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:16.629000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
普遍喔？ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:17.129000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:19.651000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
全世界喜歡攻擊臺灣？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:19.651000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:22.373000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
臺灣，因為我們目前…… |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:22.373000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:26.916000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
我們很偉大，所以被攻擊，是嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.167 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:26.916000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:31.738000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
跟委員報告，我想這個是一個趨勢，所以剛剛提的如何因應……趨勢？ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.962 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:31.918000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:32.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
你怎麼會講趨勢呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:32.259000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:34.259000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
好像我們活該被攻擊，怎麼會這樣子講呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:34.659000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:35.500000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
全世界來攻擊臺灣是趨勢，你說的對還是不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.684 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:35.500000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:39.571500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
我講的是AI生成的攻擊會是一個趨勢，那如何防範，其實有幾個部分，第一個就是…… |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.206 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:39.571500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:43.643000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
因為我的時間有限，你不要給我講教科書的喔！ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:43.643000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2024-11-18T11:29:43.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
來啦，你怎麼做？ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2024-11-18T11:29:43.943000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:02.764000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
你們國安局有沒有針對這個事情立一個專案討論，還是立一個什麼因應小組或什麼來專門針對這個？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.952 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:03.125000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:11.133000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
跟委員報告，有，我們局裡在幾年前就成立AI小組，密注AI的技術，我們不只用坊間的…… |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:11.413000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:16.198000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
怎麼會成立幾年了，我們被攻擊的件數越來越多，怎麼會這個樣子呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:16.198000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:17.198000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
被攻擊…… |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:16.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:16.818000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
怎麼會一塌糊塗呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:16.818000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:17.818000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
你們那個沒有效啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.125 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:17.818000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:18.818000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
你再怎麼做也沒有用！ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:18.818000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:19.818000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
攻擊是…… |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:17.880000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:19.021000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
沒辦法攔阻、攔截嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:23.425000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:29.071000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
報告委員，攻擊發起我們不可控，可是我們可以有效的防禦，這是我們可以做的，所以…… |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.794 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:30.172000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:31.033000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
越防越多啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:31.153000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:32.114000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
來、來、來，我請教數發部林次長，這個現象怎麼樣避免？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.81 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:32.314000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:32.414000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
怎麼會這個樣子呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.375 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:32.414000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:32.434000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
我們這麼慘啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
林次長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:41.247000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:47.752000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
先跟委員報告，我們臺灣受到很多的資安攻擊，這的確是事實，因為我們都知道…… |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:47.752000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2024-11-18T11:30:48.752000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
怎麼樣防止？ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
林次長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2024-11-18T11:30:47.892000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:00.502000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
美中現在已經進入第二次冷戰的態勢，然後在geopolitics上面，我們臺灣是在所謂的最前線，所以會有一些境外不友善國家的那些，平常有時候我覺得他們都在練兵啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.973 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:01.082000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:02.623000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
那些國家是哪些國家在攻擊我們？ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:02.623000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:03.024000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
最有興趣的是哪幾個國家？ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
林次長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:04.825000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:06.026000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
當然就是中國大陸…… |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:06.026000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:08.288000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
還有呢？北韓。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:08.288000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:09.288000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
北韓，還有呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
林次長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:08.288000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:10.049000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
還有俄羅斯，其實俄羅斯非常多。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:10.049000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:11.771000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
俄羅斯非常多？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:11.771000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:14.893000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
俄羅斯會不會因為我們過去罵俄羅斯，所以更多？ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:15.234000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:17.035000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
會不會？ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:17.035000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:17.375000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
有可能？ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
林次長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:17.736000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:29.305000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
有可能會是，但是他們通常做這個攻擊就是為了彰顯一些政治的訴求，所以對於他們的政治訴求，我們也不想要讓他們炒熱新聞，我們就做好我們的防禦。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.937 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:29.305000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:31.046000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
所以不要理他？ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
林次長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:31.046000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:32.147000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
也不是不要理他，我們要做事前…… |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:32.147000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:33.868000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
越攻擊越多啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
林次長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:33.868000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:35.569000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
我們做事前、事中以及事後的防禦，事前…… |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.625 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:35.569000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:47.185000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
好啦，我時間有限，我跳第二題。謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:47.185000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2024-11-18T11:31:58.801000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
來，我們看一下，國安局有精進網安防禦，影片這個是機器狗，請問國安局有沒有針對機器狗做一些準備？ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2024-11-18T11:31:58.801000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2024-11-18T11:32:03.886000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
報告委員，我們沒有這個機器狗，不過我們會關注AI在運用上…… |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2024-11-18T11:32:04.086000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2024-11-18T11:32:10.993000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
欸，你知道機器狗現在已經加入川普的海湖莊園的巡邏耶，已經加入了！ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.793 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2024-11-18T11:32:11.273000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2024-11-18T11:32:17.279000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
我們會密注，事實上我們一直有在密注AI運用在軍事或其他國安威脅的用途，這個情訊我們一直在掌蒐。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2024-11-18T11:32:17.639000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2024-11-18T11:32:31.667000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
不、不、不，我問你，你不要岔題啊，國安局有沒有針對現在已經加入攻擊的機器狗做一些防禦的措施，有沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.86 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2024-11-18T11:32:32.187000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2024-11-18T11:32:35.008000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
機器狗這部分，假如老共，這是老共的啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2024-11-18T11:32:35.569000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2024-11-18T11:32:39.611000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
老共如果弄機器狗來攻擊臺灣，我們有沒有一些因應呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2024-11-18T11:32:42.606000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2024-11-18T11:33:08.284000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
是，針對無人載具，我們的情資掌握到的就是，中國大陸那邊針對無人載具，不僅機器狗，無人機、無人潛航器、無人艇，發展都非常的快速，結合他們AI的投資和投入，我們相信這是未來我們持續要掌蒐、關注的議題，這個議題我們掌蒐到以後，我們會提供給相關單位來做參處。 |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.91 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2024-11-18T11:33:09.636000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2024-11-18T11:33:14.079000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
我們有沒有一套因應的整體作法，有沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.882 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2024-11-18T11:33:15.820000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2024-11-18T11:33:16.200000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
還是還沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2024-11-18T11:33:16.300000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2024-11-18T11:33:16.920000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
還在develop？ |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2024-11-18T11:33:17.681000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2024-11-18T11:33:28.927000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
有關這個部分，如果涉及軍事的話，國防部他們會去做一些評估跟應處，對本局來講，會掌蒐這種趨勢跟威脅來提供相關單位做應處。 |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0.926 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2024-11-18T11:33:28.927000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2024-11-18T11:33:29.467000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
這個什麼時候可以出來？ |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2024-11-18T11:33:33.535000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2024-11-18T11:33:34.556000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
這個我們一直持續在掌蒐。 |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2024-11-18T11:33:34.957000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2024-11-18T11:33:35.798000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
一直持續在做？ |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2024-11-18T11:33:36.198000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2024-11-18T11:33:37.880000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
是，因為它也是一直在演進。 |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2024-11-18T11:33:37.880000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2024-11-18T11:33:51.973000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
這個新的載具，這個機器狗現在越來越popular，你們要針對這個做一些準備，你可以看到，我剛說過了，川普的莊園都已經有機器狗在幫忙巡邏了，你可以去看喔。 |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2024-11-18T11:33:52.413000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2024-11-18T11:34:32.708000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
好，最後一個，各單位聽好喔，刑事警察局採購了深偽影像檢測平臺花費一千多萬，法務部調查局花了870萬，高雄市刑事警察大隊花了44萬，數位部前瞻計畫研發多媒體鑑識平臺花費1,300萬，林林總總，在選舉期間警政署、調查局還成立了AI生成或深度偽造假訊息處理中心。 |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.862 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2024-11-18T11:34:34.149000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2024-11-18T11:34:40.374000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
我時間有限，我就請教國安局或者是數發部，你們有沒有一個整合單位？ |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
0.931 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2024-11-18T11:34:40.774000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2024-11-18T11:34:49.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
就是對於AI深偽這部分專門成立一個小組來整合一下，你看各單位都在花錢，有沒有這個東西？ |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2024-11-18T11:34:54.065000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2024-11-18T11:35:00.811000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
跟委員報告，事實上，深偽是偵訊的一個延伸，是手段的不同。 |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2024-11-18T11:35:01.612000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2024-11-18T11:35:09.739000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
也就是說，假訊息的呈現方式有文字、有語音，現在有影像，加了AI技術以後越做越仿真。 |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2024-11-18T11:35:10.219000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2024-11-18T11:35:43.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
事實上，本局跟相關政府機關和警政署、司法警察、調查局，我們已經成立一個這種假訊息防制的機制平臺，所以針對AI這樣的新的現象，我們也在這個平臺會有討論，剛剛看到的這幾個部分，有些是我們共同討論出來的，因為AI的發展太快速，我們必須要有這些高新的AI技術設備，才有辦法去因應這樣一個虛假訊息的應處。 |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0.904 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2024-11-18T11:35:43.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2024-11-18T11:35:44.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
就是說，你們現在已經有一個整合的……有。 |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2024-11-18T11:35:44.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2024-11-18T11:35:45.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
是你們整合的嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2024-11-18T11:35:45.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2024-11-18T11:35:46.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
國安局整合還是數發部？ |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2024-11-18T11:35:46.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2024-11-18T11:35:47.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
我們是掌蒐，是情報體系去掌蒐這個訊息，另外的應處是由政府體系，那我們這個…… |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2024-11-18T11:35:47.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2024-11-18T11:35:48.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
數發部有沒有接受你的指揮，有沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2024-11-18T11:35:48.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2024-11-18T11:35:49.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
這個部分。 |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2024-11-18T11:35:49.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2024-11-18T11:35:50.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
數發部是應處的一環，我們是掌蒐的一環，但這兩個是密切協作。 |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
0.115 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2024-11-18T11:35:45.205000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2024-11-18T11:36:41.679000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
好，最後一個問題是大家很關心的，就是蔡英文前總統被深偽之後，一天就找到IP了，其他人都找不到啊，幾個月都找不到啊，包括鄭文燦的找不到，包括其他的立委們，弄了老半天也找不到，外界質疑你們在追這個事情的時候還大小眼耶！ |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
0.928 |
| transcript.gazette[85].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[85].start |
2024-11-18T11:36:42.640000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[85].end |
2024-11-18T11:36:51.070000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].text |
還看背後是誰受害，蔡總統的亮度很夠，馬上一天就找到，代表你們很有能力啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[85].quality |
0.812 |
| transcript.gazette[86].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[86].start |
2024-11-18T11:36:51.650000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[86].end |
2024-11-18T11:36:56.001000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].text |
其他人卻搞一個月都找不到，這個部分副局長要不要解釋一下？ |
| transcript.gazette[86].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[87].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[87].start |
2024-11-18T11:36:56.121000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[87].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:08.026000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].text |
報告委員，我們在處理訊息的過程有一套機制，有一套程序，影響到國家安全或社會安寧，這種影響擴大、快速的話，我們會優先來處理…… |
| transcript.gazette[87].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[88].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[88].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:08.466000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[88].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:10.027000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].text |
所以總統優先，其他不優先？ |
| transcript.gazette[88].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[89].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[89].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:10.327000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[89].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:14.728000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].text |
報告委員，不是這樣，就是說我們看到這樣的議題跟現象…… |
| transcript.gazette[89].quality |
0.913 |
| transcript.gazette[90].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[90].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:15.148000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[90].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:17.950000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].text |
外界高度質疑啊，就是看人在辦案啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[90].quality |
0.933 |
| transcript.gazette[91].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[91].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:18.130000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[91].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:21.954000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].text |
不是因為身分啦，是看它影響國安跟社安的程度，還有發生的現象。 |
| transcript.gazette[91].quality |
0.852 |
| transcript.gazette[92].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[92].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:21.974000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[92].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:22.955000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].text |
是啊，總統影響國安大，立委沒有涉國安所以就不要緊，就慢慢來，現任立委就有被偽造啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[92].quality |
0.389 |
| transcript.gazette[93].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[93].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:22.995000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[93].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:23.696000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].text |
報告委員，我們那個是有分級啦，是分一般民眾還是影響國安層級。 |
| transcript.gazette[93].quality |
0.741 |
| transcript.gazette[94].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[94].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:23.716000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[94].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:25.958000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].text |
是啊，沒有錯啊，所以總統比較短啦，時間快速啊，立委就慢慢來，立委不重要，就這樣，大小眼，就這樣！ |
| transcript.gazette[94].quality |
0.872 |
| transcript.gazette[95].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[95].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:26.458000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[95].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:30.458000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].text |
不是這樣啦，因為很多涉及到個人…… |
| transcript.gazette[95].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[96].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[96].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:30.758000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[96].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:33.900857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].text |
你剛剛的解釋就是這樣啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[96].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[97].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[97].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:34.200857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[97].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:41.915143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].text |
涉及到個人的話，我們尊重他個人，這是告訴乃論，他去檢舉或揭發…… |
| transcript.gazette[97].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[98].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[98].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:42.215143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[98].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:46.500857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].text |
人家都告了、都檢舉啦，你們就這樣子。 |
| transcript.gazette[98].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[99].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[99].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:46.800857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[99].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:52.229429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].text |
對，這個我們會尊重，而且尊重後續司法的承辦。 |
| transcript.gazette[99].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[100].speaker |
賴委員士葆 |
| transcript.gazette[100].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:52.529429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[100].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:56.815143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].text |
好吧，我們希望不要大小眼啦，好不好？ |
| transcript.gazette[100].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[101].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[101].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:57.115143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[101].end |
2024-11-18T11:37:59.400857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].text |
沒有，絕對沒有。謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[101].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[102].speaker |
張副局長元斌 |
| transcript.gazette[102].start |
2024-11-18T11:37:59.700857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[102].end |
2024-11-18T11:38:00.843714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].text |
謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[102].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[103].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[103].start |
2024-11-18T11:38:01.143714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[103].end |
2024-11-18T11:38:05.429429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].text |
謝謝賴士葆委員，副局長和次長請回。 |
| transcript.gazette[103].quality |
0.2 |
| transcript.gazette[104].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[104].start |
2024-11-18T11:38:05.729429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[104].end |
2024-11-18T11:38:09.443714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].text |
接下來請洪孟楷委員上臺質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[104].quality |
0 |
| gazette.lineno |
520 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（11時27分）謝謝主席及各位先進，有請國安局張副局長、數發部林次長、法務部調查局吳副局長、警政署林副局長，幾位長官一起。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
張副局長元斌：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
賴委員士葆：請你們看一下螢幕的簡報資料，我看了一些資料，不知道國安局或調查局的長官可不可以回答，要怎麼樣因應頻繁的AI資安攻擊？過去半年內，臺灣每個禮拜遭受2,930次的網路攻擊，是全球平均被攻擊的2.7倍，我們是AI之島，結果變成是被攻擊之島，國安局長官要不要先講一下，我們的KPI是什麼？這個怎麼因應？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
張副局長元斌：謝謝委員，這個問題確實是非常重要跟嚴峻，尤其AI，生成式AI出來以後，很容易製造出一些仿真的釣魚郵件，還有它很容易去歸納及分析系統防禦的漏洞，這個攻擊的態樣會越來越多，然後速度也越來越快，所以這個部分…… |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
賴委員士葆：為什麼大家對臺灣這麼有興趣？為什麼呢？為什麼這個樣子，你們分析過沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
張副局長元斌：我想這個應該是一個普遍的現象，臺灣…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
賴委員士葆：普遍喔？全世界喜歡攻擊臺灣？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
張副局長元斌：臺灣，因為我們目前…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
賴委員士葆：我們很偉大，所以被攻擊，是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
張副局長元斌：跟委員報告，我想這個是一個趨勢，所以剛剛提的如何因應…… |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
賴委員士葆：趨勢？你怎麼會講趨勢呢？好像我們活該被攻擊，怎麼會這樣子講呢？全世界來攻擊臺灣是趨勢，你說的對還是不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
張副局長元斌：我講的是AI生成的攻擊會是一個趨勢，那如何防範，其實有幾個部分，第一個就是…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
賴委員士葆：因為我的時間有限，你不要給我講教科書的喔！來啦，你怎麼做？你們國安局有沒有針對這個事情立一個專案討論，還是立一個什麼因應小組或什麼來專門針對這個？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
張副局長元斌：跟委員報告，有，我們局裡在幾年前就成立AI小組，密注AI的技術，我們不只用坊間的…… |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
賴委員士葆：怎麼會成立幾年了，我們被攻擊的件數越來越多，怎麼會這個樣子呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
張副局長元斌：被攻擊…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
賴委員士葆：怎麼會一塌糊塗呢？你們那個沒有效啊！你再怎麼做也沒有用！ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
張副局長元斌：攻擊是…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒辦法攔阻、攔截嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
張副局長元斌：報告委員，攻擊發起我們不可控，可是我們可以有效的防禦，這是我們可以做的，所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
賴委員士葆：越防越多啊！來、來、來，我請教數發部林次長，這個現象怎麼樣避免？怎麼會這個樣子呢？我們這麼慘啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
林次長宜敬：先跟委員報告，我們臺灣受到很多的資安攻擊，這的確是事實，因為我們都知道…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
賴委員士葆：怎麼樣防止？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
林次長宜敬：美中現在已經進入第二次冷戰的態勢，然後在geopolitics上面，我們臺灣是在所謂的最前線，所以會有一些境外不友善國家的那些，平常有時候我覺得他們都在練兵啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
賴委員士葆：那些國家是哪些國家在攻擊我們？最有興趣的是哪幾個國家？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
林次長宜敬：當然就是中國大陸…… |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
賴委員士葆：還有呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
林次長宜敬：北韓。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
賴委員士葆：北韓，還有呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
林次長宜敬：還有俄羅斯，其實俄羅斯非常多。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
賴委員士葆：俄羅斯非常多？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
林次長宜敬：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
賴委員士葆：俄羅斯會不會因為我們過去罵俄羅斯，所以更多？會不會？有可能？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
林次長宜敬：有可能會是，但是他們通常做這個攻擊就是為了彰顯一些政治的訴求，所以對於他們的政治訴求，我們也不想要讓他們炒熱新聞，我們就做好我們的防禦。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以不要理他？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
林次長宜敬：也不是不要理他，我們要做事前…… |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
賴委員士葆：越攻擊越多啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
林次長宜敬：我們做事前、事中以及事後的防禦，事前…… |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
賴委員士葆：好啦，我時間有限，我跳第二題。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
林次長宜敬：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
賴委員士葆：來，我們看一下，國安局有精進網安防禦，影片這個是機器狗，請問國安局有沒有針對機器狗做一些準備？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
張副局長元斌：報告委員，我們沒有這個機器狗，不過我們會關注AI在運用上…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
賴委員士葆：欸，你知道機器狗現在已經加入川普的海湖莊園的巡邏耶，已經加入了！ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
張副局長元斌：我們會密注，事實上我們一直有在密注AI運用在軍事或其他國安威脅的用途，這個情訊我們一直在掌蒐。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
賴委員士葆：不、不、不，我問你，你不要岔題啊，國安局有沒有針對現在已經加入攻擊的機器狗做一些防禦的措施，有沒有？機器狗這部分，假如老共，這是老共的啊！老共如果弄機器狗來攻擊臺灣，我們有沒有一些因應呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
張副局長元斌：是，針對無人載具，我們的情資掌握到的就是，中國大陸那邊針對無人載具，不僅機器狗，無人機、無人潛航器、無人艇，發展都非常的快速，結合他們AI的投資和投入，我們相信這是未來我們持續要掌蒐、關注的議題，這個議題我們掌蒐到以後，我們會提供給相關單位來做參處。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
賴委員士葆：我們有沒有一套因應的整體作法，有沒有？還是還沒有？還在develop？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
張副局長元斌：有關這個部分，如果涉及軍事的話，國防部他們會去做一些評估跟應處，對本局來講，會掌蒐這種趨勢跟威脅來提供相關單位做應處。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
賴委員士葆：這個什麼時候可以出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
張副局長元斌：這個我們一直持續在掌蒐。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
賴委員士葆：一直持續在做？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
張副局長元斌：是，因為它也是一直在演進。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
賴委員士葆：這個新的載具，這個機器狗現在越來越popular，你們要針對這個做一些準備，你可以看到，我剛說過了，川普的莊園都已經有機器狗在幫忙巡邏了，你可以去看喔。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][1] |
好，最後一個，各單位聽好喔，刑事警察局採購了深偽影像檢測平臺花費一千多萬，法務部調查局花了870萬，高雄市刑事警察大隊花了44萬，數位部前瞻計畫研發多媒體鑑識平臺花費1,300萬，林林總總，在選舉期間警政署、調查局還成立了AI生成或深度偽造假訊息處理中心。我時間有限，我就請教國安局或者是數發部，你們有沒有一個整合單位？就是對於AI深偽這部分專門成立一個小組來整合一下，你看各單位都在花錢，有沒有這個東西？ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
張副局長元斌：跟委員報告，事實上，深偽是偵訊的一個延伸，是手段的不同。也就是說，假訊息的呈現方式有文字、有語音，現在有影像，加了AI技術以後越做越仿真。事實上，本局跟相關政府機關和警政署、司法警察、調查局，我們已經成立一個這種假訊息防制的機制平臺，所以針對AI這樣的新的現象，我們也在這個平臺會有討論，剛剛看到的這幾個部分，有些是我們共同討論出來的，因為AI的發展太快速，我們必須要有這些高新的AI技術設備，才有辦法去因應這樣一個虛假訊息的應處。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
賴委員士葆：就是說，你們現在已經有一個整合的…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
張副局長元斌：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
賴委員士葆：是你們整合的嗎？國安局整合還是數發部？ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
張副局長元斌：我們是掌蒐，是情報體系去掌蒐這個訊息，另外的應處是由政府體系，那我們這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
賴委員士葆：數發部有沒有接受你的指揮，有沒有？這個部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
張副局長元斌：數發部是應處的一環，我們是掌蒐的一環，但這兩個是密切協作。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，最後一個問題是大家很關心的，就是蔡英文前總統被深偽之後，一天就找到IP了，其他人都找不到啊，幾個月都找不到啊，包括鄭文燦的找不到，包括其他的立委們，弄了老半天也找不到，外界質疑你們在追這個事情的時候還大小眼耶！還看背後是誰受害，蔡總統的亮度很夠，馬上一天就找到，代表你們很有能力啊！其他人卻搞一個月都找不到，這個部分副局長要不要解釋一下？ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
張副局長元斌：報告委員，我們在處理訊息的過程有一套機制，有一套程序，影響到國家安全或社會安寧，這種影響擴大、快速的話，我們會優先來處理…… |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以總統優先，其他不優先？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
張副局長元斌：報告委員，不是這樣，就是說我們看到這樣的議題跟現象…… |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
賴委員士葆：外界高度質疑啊，就是看人在辦案啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
張副局長元斌：不是因為身分啦，是看它影響國安跟社安的程度，還有發生的現象。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
賴委員士葆：是啊，總統影響國安大，立委沒有涉國安所以就不要緊，就慢慢來，現任立委就有被偽造啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
張副局長元斌：報告委員，我們那個是有分級啦，是分一般民眾還是影響國安層級。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
賴委員士葆：是啊，沒有錯啊，所以總統比較短啦，時間快速啊，立委就慢慢來，立委不重要，就這樣，大小眼，就這樣！ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
張副局長元斌：不是這樣啦，因為很多涉及到個人…… |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
賴委員士葆：你剛剛的解釋就是這樣啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
張副局長元斌：涉及到個人的話，我們尊重他個人，這是告訴乃論，他去檢舉或揭發…… |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
賴委員士葆：人家都告了、都檢舉啦，你們就這樣子。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
張副局長元斌：對，這個我們會尊重，而且尊重後續司法的承辦。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
賴委員士葆：好吧，我們希望不要大小眼啦，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
張副局長元斌：沒有，絕對沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
賴委員士葆：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
張副局長元斌：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
主席：謝謝賴士葆委員，副局長和次長請回。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][1] |
接下來請洪孟楷委員上臺質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
58 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-35-14 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
林憶君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
葛如鈞 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-18 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310101 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310101_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請國家安全局局長、數位發展部、法務部調查局、內政部警政署、國家科學及技術委員會報告
「AI 技術在資安、深偽（Deepfake）影片及錯假訊息之影響評估及因應」，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310101_00001 |