| IVOD_ID |
155993 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155993 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-23T12:22:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-23T12:33:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:49 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f30dcf391021d637439bda7a20e3a245d49a24f4c608aef66e8eac7fc2cd0ecb93907f0277984e85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:22:00 - 12:33:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、法務部、內政部、財政部、教育部列席就「有關新興煙毒品防制及強化虐童防治作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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喂 部長 我剛剛聽到這個賴世保委員講說這個民進黨要往這個大麻合法化的方向去走 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
14.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
32.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我送他八個字胡說八道危言聳聽你身為民進黨籍的這一個部會首長遇到這種事情隨便亂講的馬上要澄清啊馬上要駁斥啊什麼叫民進黨要往大麻合法化方向去走亂講我現在來討論這一個電子煙的問題電子煙 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
42.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
55.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
這個按照這個媒體的報導去年3月這個煙毒防治法這個通過之後去年3月到今年的9月稽查了50萬件開罰了1247件成案率0.0025% |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
77.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
全國警方7-9月同一期間查獲喪屍煙彈違法案件681件是衛福部的2.3倍剛剛委員也都有在問為什麼落差會這麼大為什麼成案率這麼低 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
82.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
100.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
各位委員報告我是國民健康署其實在這個電子煙的這個執行是依《煙害防治法》來做執行所以它的行政程序跟行政的調查部分跟警政署的這個《毒品防治條例》是有不一樣的所以說你開罰這麼低 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
104.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
124.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
是法律有問題還是執行有問題其實這個是因為要進行行政的一些誠信跟約詢所以是程序上是比較長那我再問你這我剛剛都聽到了50萬件次裡面網路的這個查竊案件說3萬多件次是不是比例太低 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
125.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
147.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我剛才聽到說未來的你們的目標在於這個網路上面的查緝那為什麼網路上面的查緝會這麼的低我先問你你們現在裁罰的話網路上的裁罰是裁罰買家跟賣家而已嗎有沒有處罰平台有有處罰平台嗎有處罰平台的案例有多少61件61件那處罰多少錢40萬開始40萬開始對所以61件每一件都40萬開始嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
155.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
174.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個可不可以用這個煙案防治法來做處罰那為什麼才41件你是不是在網路上買電子煙非常非常的容易我只要在網路上面我只要Google電子煙網購一大堆資訊都出來了還跟你推薦說有哪一些平台是你可以去買的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
175.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
201.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你們有沒有看過委員我們很清楚這個狀況都很清楚那為什麼這個情況會這麼的氾濫所以我們跟平臺業者是很密集的在開會那我也跟委員報告我們甚至跟他們建立這個綠色通道大家互拋一些keywords跟相關的訊息確實我們需要按照這一個國建署的這個資料去年底去年的大概9月到12月 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
203.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
217.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個有違法的這個網路上賣電子業的這個主要的平臺集中在Facebook、IG還有露天平臺這三個平臺去年底三個月的案件比例高達九成 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
218.397 |
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232.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對,它也是我們開罰最多的才41件啊才61件啊但是這個有相當多的約尋的程序這個我不太相信說什麼約尋的程序你去查了幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
234.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
262.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
譬如說你查了200件那最後這個譬如說約尋了這個成案41件61件那我可以接受那你們總共約尋了幾件查了幾件在網路上查緝就是3萬多件3萬多件但是因為我們要從行政的採取上面我們要約尋賣家還有所以按照這個煙害防治法第30條就可以來做處罰了嗎對按照它有刊登 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
263.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
291.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
的部分就進行網路業者的採訪現在按照打造專法只要是境外的網路平臺最遲要在今年的10月31號要以書面指定法律代表登記就是說每一個平臺你們都找得到人他都有法律的代表過去常常講說是境外查不到沒辦法罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
312.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
可不可以從11月1號開始全面對違規的廣告平台要去開罰我們已經開始在積極的開罰我們會加強這不成比例嘛這三萬多件而已啊是網路比較難查還是實體比較難查我們兩個雙頭都並進那為什麼落差會這麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
319.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因為這個網路的稽查的這個frequency我們是由中央這邊一直不斷的在稽查那地方呢47件的實體稽查是由地方進行實體稽查所以我們有分工合作我是有分工啦對那是我是跟你講就是說電子煙在網路上買很方便現在買賣電子煙有沒有違法有當然違法那為什麼我們查這個在網路上找這個電子煙到處都買得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
351.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
372.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就表示他的處罰不夠重嘛好,我們會加強,一定會加強因為我們也看到這個問題的嚴重性我再問一下部長最高檢察署在今年的這個7月有發了一個新聞稿這個問一下現在含尼古丁成分、電子煙的製造、輸入、販賣、轉讓等行為現在有沒有顯示責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
378.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
384.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
含電子煙成分、含尼古丁成分的電子煙製造、輸入、販賣、轉讓等行為有沒有負刑事責任?這不是很簡單的問題嗎?因為自從煙害 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
404.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個原來防治法修正通過之後有關於電子煙的部分全部都是行政划環那就產生一個法律問題也就是說它修正前如果已經移送到地檢署的案子在還沒有修正前它其實是用要司法的行者來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
424.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那去年3月之後呢?3月之後就產生一個法律上的爭議那有關衛福部曾經發一個文給我們就是說這個要認為應該要適用這個煙害防治法行政划款來處理還是只有行政法嗎?對 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
441.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
455.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們把這個法律議案交給最高檢署來做研議研議到最後的一個結果因為包括實務上的運作法案的判決都發生了起義最後最高檢署達成一個共識就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
456.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
457.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
可是我按照這個最高檢察署的新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
479.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
502.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那你們認為說這個要不要負刑事責任?跟委員報告,因為這個主責機關是這個衛福部好,那我來問衛福部,來邱部長含泥骨電成分、電子煙的製造、輸入、販賣、轉賣等行為是否要負刑事責任?是否要修要事法?你的態度是怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
504.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
517.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我的態度當然就是要人家管理人家管理那要不要修要事法要不要修要事法還是就是按照這個現在就只有行政法而已我們的態度怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
519.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
548.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
報告委員那個因為在這個那個冤害防治法過了以後它事實上已經是不屬於藥事法處理的範圍我當然知道啊所以最高檢察署才會有這個信用稿出來嘛因為在實務上有的起訴有的不起訴有的還起訴嘛目中一示啊那現在主管機關是衛福部嘛所以我問衛福部的態度就是說要不要現在是行政法那要不要修改藥事法變成刑法嘛刑法的處罰要不要要不要往這個方向去走 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
550.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
575.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這立場、態度、政策啊我問一下部長我想人家管理是必要的啦那看用什麼方式也要合乎他一個適用的法令啦現在的法令是用煙害防治法那煙害防治法就目前是煙害防治法就是行政法那現在高檢署他的問題就在於說每個法院判出來不一樣啊那所以勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
581.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
604.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以你們總是有個方向嘛沒有方向沒有跟委員報告沒有方向這個問題就繼續嚴重下去啊行法這件事情它是行政法是比較能夠快速跟簡易的去面對這個問題所以為什麼我們現在態度還是用行政法來做所以不打算用修改要事法就對了嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
608.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
631.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我想我們都可以來研議啦,看怎麼樣能夠管理好,然後快速,那目前就是有法已經有...你們知不知道中央檢察署這個新聞稿,知道嗎?7月份的,知不知道?阿對阿,現在兩個都會過去了,到底衛福態度是怎麼樣?沒有態度?那難怪這個這麼氾濫阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
634.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
649.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 那個主席要不要私底下再跟我們留言然後回溯一下因為已經超過5分鐘了我看其他人都講很久阿有講很久阿我當然是要謹慎處理我都知道那個態度跟方向阿嚴加管理我知道有效管理這個是絕對堅持的原則那在至於說這對我來講齁 這個不是我要的答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
671.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
686.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
請你們來我辦公室做個說明跟報告好不好?你們的方向是怎麼樣?想在這邊那我也沒有個答案再問下去今天有點不好意思但是這個問題很嚴重實務上也出現了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
691.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
708.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有的起訴有的不起訴有的還起訴所以最高檢察處才會發這個新聞稿而且大家都開過會啦阿兩個月都兩個月之後過去了一樣大概沒有一個方向阿這個問題是很嚴重我希望大家一起來做處理好不好好謝謝我們李委員 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2024-10-23T12:22:00+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2024-10-23T12:22:01+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席，我們請衛福部的邱部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2024-10-23T12:22:01+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2024-10-23T12:22:02+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
部長請。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2024-10-23T12:22:02+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2024-10-23T12:22:03+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
然後法務部檢察司的郭司長，先請這兩位。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2024-10-23T12:22:03+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2024-10-23T12:22:04+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
部長好，司長好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2024-10-23T12:22:04+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2024-10-23T12:22:05+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2024-10-23T12:22:03.513000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2024-10-23T12:22:16.431000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
部長，我剛剛聽到賴士葆委員講，說民進黨要往大麻合法化的方向去走，我送他8個字，胡說八道！ |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2024-10-23T12:22:17.252000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2024-10-23T12:22:18.992000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
危言聳聽！ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2024-10-23T12:22:18.992000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2024-10-23T12:22:26.216000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
你身為民進黨籍的部會首長，遇到這種隨便亂講的事情，馬上要澄清啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.931 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2024-10-23T12:22:26.996000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2024-10-23T12:22:27.617000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
馬上要駁斥啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2024-10-23T12:22:28.417000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2024-10-23T12:22:31.759000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
什麼叫做民進黨要往大麻合法化方向去走？亂講！是。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.905 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2024-10-23T12:22:31.759000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2024-10-23T12:22:55.989000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
我現在來討論電子煙的問題，電子煙按照媒體的報導，去年3月菸害防制法通過之後，去年3月到今年9月稽查了50萬件，開罰了1,247件，成案率0.0025%。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2024-10-23T12:23:04.229000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2024-10-23T12:23:16.435000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
全國警方7到9月同一期間查獲喪屍煙彈違法案件681件，是衛福部的2.3倍，剛剛委員也都有在問，為什麼落差會這麼大？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.978 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2024-10-23T12:23:17.335000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2024-10-23T12:23:17.936000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
為什麼成案率這麼低？ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2024-10-23T12:23:23.002000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2024-10-23T12:23:40.231000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
跟委員報告，我是國民健康署，其實電子煙是依菸害防制法來做執行，所以它的行政程序及行政調查的部分，跟警政署以毒品防制條例是有不一樣的。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.885 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2024-10-23T12:23:40.231000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2024-10-23T12:23:41.231000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
當然部長…… |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2024-10-23T12:23:40.591000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2024-10-23T12:23:47.433000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
對，所以我說你開罰這麼低是法律有問題，還是執行有問題？ |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2024-10-23T12:23:47.433000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2024-10-23T12:23:53.795000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
其實這個是因為要進行行政的一些程序和約詢，所以程序上是比較長的。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.867 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2024-10-23T12:23:53.795000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:02.618000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
那我再問你，我剛才都聽到了，50萬件次裡面，網路的查緝案件有三萬多件次，是不是？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.853 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:03.539000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:03.999000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
比例太低。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:05.270000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:13.074000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
我剛剛有聽到，未來你們的目標在於網路上面的查緝，那為什麼網路上面的查緝會這麼低？ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.946 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:13.494000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:20.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
我先問你，你們現在裁罰的話，網路上的裁罰是裁罰買家和賣家而已嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:20.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:21.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
還有網路平臺。 |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:20.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:21.658000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
有沒有處罰平臺？有。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:22.119000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:23.339000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
有處罰平臺嗎？有。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:24.220000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:25.240000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
處罰平臺的案例有多少？61件。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:25.280000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:25.480000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
61件，那處罰多少錢？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:25.480000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:25.480000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
40萬開始。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:25.540000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:25.640000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
40萬開始？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:25.640000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:27.321000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
所以61件，每一件都40萬開始嗎？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:35.677000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:39.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
這個可不可以用菸害防制法來做處罰？ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.812 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:39.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:40.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
是，是用菸害防制法。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:39.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:40.883000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
那為什麼才41件？61件。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:41.964000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:45.628000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
你知不知道在網路上買電子煙非常非常容易？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.842 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:46.429000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:56.399000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
我只要在網路上面google「電子煙網購」，一大堆資訊都出來了，還跟你推薦有哪一些平臺是你可以去買的，你們有沒有看過？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.981 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:56.399000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2024-10-23T12:24:57.800000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
委員，我們很清楚這個狀況，所以我們…… |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.733 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2024-10-23T12:24:57.800000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2024-10-23T12:25:01.521000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
都很清楚，那為什麼情況會這麼氾濫？ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2024-10-23T12:25:01.521000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2024-10-23T12:25:14.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
所以我們與平臺業者是很密集地在開會，我也跟委員報告，我們甚至跟他們建立了綠色通道，大家互拋一些keywords和相關的訊息，確實，我們需要再…… |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2024-10-23T12:25:16.466000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2024-10-23T12:25:37.284000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
按照國健署的資料，去年9月到12月有違法在網路上賣電子煙的，主要的平臺集中在Facebook、IG還有露天平臺，這3個平臺去年底3個月的案件，比例高達九成。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2024-10-23T12:25:38.397000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2024-10-23T12:25:39.698000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
對，它也是我們開罰最多的。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2024-10-23T12:25:40.499000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2024-10-23T12:25:41.299000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
才41件啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2024-10-23T12:25:41.299000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2024-10-23T12:25:42.561000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
沒有，61件中…… |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2024-10-23T12:25:42.561000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2024-10-23T12:25:43.521000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
才61件啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2024-10-23T12:25:44.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2024-10-23T12:25:46.984000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
但是這個有相當多的約詢程序。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2024-10-23T12:25:48.525000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2024-10-23T12:25:52.068000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
我不太相信什麼約詢的程序，你去查了幾件？ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2024-10-23T12:25:54.219000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2024-10-23T12:26:03.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
比如說你查了200件，最後成案41件、61件，那我可以接受，你們總共約詢了幾件？ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2024-10-23T12:26:04.464000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2024-10-23T12:26:04.965000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
查了幾件？ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2024-10-23T12:26:06.605000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2024-10-23T12:26:16.270000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
在網路上查緝就是3萬多件，3萬多件，但是因為我們從行政的裁處上面，我們要約詢賣家，還有刊登廣告…… |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.829 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2024-10-23T12:26:16.931000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2024-10-23T12:26:20.573000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
所以按照菸害防制法第三十條就可以來做處罰了嘛？ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.773 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2024-10-23T12:26:21.133000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2024-10-23T12:26:25.133000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
對，按照它有刊登的部分，進行網路業者的裁罰。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.895 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2024-10-23T12:26:26.714000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2024-10-23T12:26:46.958000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
現在按照打詐專法，只要是境外的網路平臺，最遲要在今年10月31日以書面指定法律代表登記，就是說每一個平臺你們都找得到人，它都有法律的代表。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2024-10-23T12:26:48.358000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:00.016000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
過去常常講說這個是境外，查不到，沒辦法罰，可不可以從11月1日開始，全面對違規的廣告平臺去開罰？ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.925 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:00.016000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:03.978000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
我們已經開始積極地開罰。 |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:03.978000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:04.978000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
案件太少了啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:03.978000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:05.940000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
我們會加強。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:05.940000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:06.640000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
這不成比例嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:06.640000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:08.962000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
好，委員，我們會加強。 |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:08.962000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:10.023000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
三萬多件而已啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:11.043000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:12.024000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
是網路比較難查，還是實體比較難查？ |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:12.244000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:12.364000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
我們兩個是雙頭並進。 |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:12.364000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:12.664000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
那為什麼落差會這麼大？ |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:19.702000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:32.790000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
因為網路稽查的這個frequency，我們是由中央這邊一直不斷地在稽查，地方的話，47件的實體稽查是由地方進行實體稽查，所以我們有分工合作的部分。 |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:32.850000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:33.530000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
我知道有分工啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:34.651000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:41.135000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
我是跟你講，電子煙在網路上買很方便，現在買賣電子煙有沒有違法？ |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:41.996000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:42.736000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
有，當然違法。 |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:43.677000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:46.438000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
那為什麼我們在網路上打「電子煙」，到處都買得到？ |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:51.668000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:53.170000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
就表示它的處罰不夠重嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:53.390000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2024-10-23T12:27:58.214000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
好，我們會加強，一定會加強，因為我們也看到這個問題的嚴重性。 |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2024-10-23T12:27:59.255000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2024-10-23T12:28:12.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
我再問一下部長，最高檢察署在今年7月有發一個新聞稿，請問含尼古丁成分電子煙的製造、輸入、販賣、轉讓等行為，現在有沒有刑事責任？ |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0.945 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2024-10-23T12:28:19.689000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2024-10-23T12:28:23.011000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
含尼古丁成分電子煙的製造、輸入、販賣、轉讓等行為，有沒有負刑事責任？ |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2024-10-23T12:28:23.011000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2024-10-23T12:28:24.011000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
有沒有？ |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2024-10-23T12:28:23.191000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2024-10-23T12:28:23.752000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
這不是很簡單的問題嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
郭司長永發 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2024-10-23T12:28:23.932000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2024-10-23T12:29:03.459000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
跟委員報告，自從菸害防制法修正通過之後，有關於電子煙的部分全部都是行政罰鍰，那就產生一個法律問題，也就是說它修正前如果已經移送到地檢署的案子，在還沒有修正前其實是用藥事法的刑責來處理，但是…… |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.83 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2024-10-23T12:29:04.881000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2024-10-23T12:29:05.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
去年3月之後呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2024-10-23T12:29:05.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2024-10-23T12:29:06.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
通過之後呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
郭司長永發 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2024-10-23T12:29:06.723000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2024-10-23T12:29:18.661000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
3月之後就會產生一個法律上的爭議，衛福部曾經發一個文給我們，認為這個應該要適用菸害防制法行政罰鍰來處理。 |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.854 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2024-10-23T12:29:19.161000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2024-10-23T12:29:19.562000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
還是只有行政罰嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
郭司長永發 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2024-10-23T12:29:19.782000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2024-10-23T12:29:35.755000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
對，我們把這個法律議案交給最高檢署來做研議，研議到最後的結果，因為包括實務上的運作、法院的判決都發生了歧異，最後最高檢署達成一個共識，就是從輕處理，就電子煙不含其他藥品或毒品的情況之下，或者沒有宣稱療效的類菸品案件，它的相關事實和法律適用如果有疑義的話，從輕處理，眼前大概講…… |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0.476 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2024-10-23T12:29:35.755000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2024-10-23T12:29:36.755000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
那就是行政罰。 |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
郭司長永發 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2024-10-23T12:29:36.755000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2024-10-23T12:29:37.755000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
就是行政罰。 |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2024-10-23T12:29:36.015000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:01.804000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
可是按照最高檢察署的新聞稿，你們認為這個要不要負刑事責任？ |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
郭司長永發 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:04.106000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:06.588000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
因為主責機關是衛福部。 |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:06.948000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:08.109000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
好，我來問衛福部。 |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:08.409000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:14.414000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
邱部長，含尼古丁成分電子煙的製造、輸入、販賣、轉讓等行為，是否要負刑事責任？ |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:16.576000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:17.597000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
是否要修藥事法？ |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:22.321000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:22.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
您的態度是怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[85].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[85].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:24.245000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[85].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:26.267000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].text |
我的態度當然就是要嚴加管理。 |
| transcript.gazette[85].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[86].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[86].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:26.847000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[86].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:27.848000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].text |
嚴加管理，要不要修藥事法？ |
| transcript.gazette[86].quality |
0.636 |
| transcript.gazette[87].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[87].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:27.848000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[87].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:30.710000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].text |
我們來看法…… |
| transcript.gazette[87].quality |
0.2 |
| transcript.gazette[88].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[88].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:30.710000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[88].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:31.431000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].text |
要不要修藥事法？ |
| transcript.gazette[88].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[89].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[89].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:31.811000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[89].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:34.613000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].text |
還是就按照現在只有行政罰而已？ |
| transcript.gazette[89].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[90].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[90].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:36.675000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[90].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:37.876000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].text |
你們的態度怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[90].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[91].speaker |
莊署長聲宏 |
| transcript.gazette[91].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:39.861000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[91].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:47.766000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].text |
報告委員，因為在菸害防制法過了以後，它事實上已經不屬於藥事法處理的範圍。 |
| transcript.gazette[91].quality |
0.939 |
| transcript.gazette[92].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[92].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:47.766000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[92].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:48.866000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].text |
我當然知道啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[92].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[93].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[93].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:48.986000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[93].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:51.408000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].text |
所以最高檢察署才會有這個新聞稿出來嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[93].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[94].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[94].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:51.828000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[94].end |
2024-10-23T12:30:56.011000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].text |
因為在實務上，有的起訴，有的不起訴，有的緩起訴，莫衷一是啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[94].quality |
0.84 |
| transcript.gazette[95].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[95].start |
2024-10-23T12:30:56.711000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[95].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:04.416000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].text |
現在主管機關是衛福部，所以我問衛福部的態度，現在是行政罰，要不要修改藥事法，變成刑罰？ |
| transcript.gazette[95].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[96].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[96].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:05.076000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[96].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:05.976000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].text |
刑罰的處罰，要不要？ |
| transcript.gazette[96].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[97].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[97].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:06.977000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[97].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:08.178000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].text |
要不要往這個方向去走？ |
| transcript.gazette[97].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[98].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[98].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:10.939000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[98].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:12.139000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].text |
這是立場、態度、政策啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[98].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[99].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[99].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:12.379000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[99].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:15.880000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].text |
我問一下部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[99].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[100].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[100].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:15.880000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[100].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:17.780000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].text |
我想嚴加管理是必要的啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[100].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[101].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[101].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:18.381000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[101].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:27.603000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].text |
看用什麼方式，也要合乎它適用的法令，現在的法令是用菸害防制法，菸害防制法就目前是沒有…… |
| transcript.gazette[101].quality |
0.821 |
| transcript.gazette[102].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[102].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:27.623000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[102].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:35.284000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].text |
菸害防制法就是行政罰，但是問題就在於說，每個法院判出來不一樣啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[102].quality |
0.828 |
| transcript.gazette[103].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[103].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:35.424000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[103].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:35.444000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].text |
所以咧？ |
| transcript.gazette[103].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[104].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[104].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:41.658000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[104].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:42.858000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].text |
你們總是要有一個方向嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[104].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[105].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[105].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:45.979000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[105].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:46.379000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].text |
沒有方向？ |
| transcript.gazette[105].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[106].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[106].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:47.059000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[106].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:48+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].text |
沒有，跟委員報告，因為…… |
| transcript.gazette[106].quality |
0.778 |
| transcript.gazette[107].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[107].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:48.460000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[107].end |
2024-10-23T12:31:50.400000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].text |
沒有方向，這個問題就繼續嚴重下去啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[107].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[108].speaker |
賈副署長淑麗 |
| transcript.gazette[108].start |
2024-10-23T12:31:51.180000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[108].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:01.803000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].text |
沒有，因為刑法這一件事情，用行政法是比較能夠快速跟簡易地去面對這個問題，所以為什麼我們現在的態度還是用行政法來做…… |
| transcript.gazette[108].quality |
0.83 |
| transcript.gazette[109].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[109].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:02.363000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[109].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:04.903000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].text |
所以你不打算修改藥事法就對了？ |
| transcript.gazette[109].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[110].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[110].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:08.228000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[110].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:13.730000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].text |
我想我們都可以來研議，看怎麼樣能夠管理好，然後快速。 |
| transcript.gazette[110].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[111].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[111].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:14.671000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[111].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:15.992000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].text |
目前就是有法，已經有…… |
| transcript.gazette[111].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[112].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[112].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:16.152000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[112].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:17.752000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].text |
你們知不知道最高檢察署這個新聞稿？ |
| transcript.gazette[112].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[113].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[113].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:18.853000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[113].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:20.614000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].text |
知道嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[113].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[114].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[114].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:20.614000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[114].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[114].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:21.514000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[114].text |
7月份的，知不知道？ |
| transcript.gazette[114].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[115].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[115].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:23.455000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[115].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[115].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:28.557000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[115].text |
現在已經兩個多月過去了，到底衛福部的態度是怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[115].quality |
0.739 |
| transcript.gazette[116].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[116].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:28.557000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[116].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[116].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:28.837000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[116].text |
沒有態度？ |
| transcript.gazette[116].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[117].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[117].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:31.038000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[117].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[117].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:31.138000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[117].text |
難怪電子煙這麼氾濫啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[117].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[118].speaker |
主席（涂委員權吉代） |
| transcript.gazette[118].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:35.328000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[118].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[118].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:38.249000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[118].text |
部長要不要私底下再跟李委員好好回復一下？ |
| transcript.gazette[118].quality |
0.579 |
| transcript.gazette[119].speaker |
主席（涂委員權吉代） |
| transcript.gazette[119].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:38.389000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[119].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[119].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:40.449000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[119].text |
因為已經超過5分鐘。 |
| transcript.gazette[119].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[120].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[120].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:40.449000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[120].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[120].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:41.449000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[120].text |
好，我們來研議，因為這牽涉到法律的事情。 |
| transcript.gazette[120].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[121].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[121].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:40.569000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[121].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[121].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:41.349000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[121].text |
我看其他人都講很久啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[121].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[122].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[122].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:41.469000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[122].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[122].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:41.649000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[122].text |
其他人有講很久？ |
| transcript.gazette[122].quality |
0.571 |
| transcript.gazette[123].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[123].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:41.649000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[123].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[123].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:43.150000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[123].text |
有，講很久啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[123].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[124].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[124].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:43.150000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[124].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[124].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:43.810000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[124].text |
牽涉到法律的事情，我們還是要謹慎來處理。 |
| transcript.gazette[124].quality |
0.389 |
| transcript.gazette[125].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[125].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:43.890000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[125].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[125].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:44.190000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[125].text |
我當然知道謹慎處理。 |
| transcript.gazette[125].quality |
0.333 |
| transcript.gazette[126].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[126].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:44.190000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[126].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[126].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:45.190000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[126].text |
會嚴加管理。 |
| transcript.gazette[126].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[127].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[127].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:44.450000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[127].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[127].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:44.770000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[127].text |
我是要知道一個態度跟方向啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[127].quality |
0.462 |
| transcript.gazette[128].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[128].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:44.770000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[128].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[128].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:45.770000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[128].text |
態度一定是嚴加管理。 |
| transcript.gazette[128].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[129].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[129].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:45.070000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[129].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[129].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:46.030000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[129].text |
嚴加管理，我知道。 |
| transcript.gazette[129].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[130].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[130].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:46.170000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[130].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[130].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:47.110000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[130].text |
有效管理。 |
| transcript.gazette[130].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[131].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[131].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:47.110000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[131].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[131].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:48.110000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[131].text |
有效管理。 |
| transcript.gazette[131].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[132].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[132].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:47.290000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[132].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[132].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:48.030000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[132].text |
對，這個是絕對堅持的原則。 |
| transcript.gazette[132].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[133].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[133].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:48.330000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[133].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[133].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:48.470000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[133].text |
至於說…… |
| transcript.gazette[133].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[134].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[134].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:48.470000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[134].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[134].end |
2024-10-23T12:32:49.351000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[134].text |
對我來講，這個不是我要的答案。 |
| transcript.gazette[134].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[135].speaker |
邱部長泰源 |
| transcript.gazette[135].start |
2024-10-23T12:32:49.351000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[135].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[135].end |
2024-10-23T12:33:00.423000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[135].text |
因為是否要負刑事責任…… |
| transcript.gazette[135].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[136].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[136].start |
2024-10-23T12:33:00.423000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[136].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[136].end |
2024-10-23T12:33:11.495000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[136].text |
沒關係啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[136].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[137].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[137].start |
2024-10-23T12:33:11.495000+08:00 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:14.337000+08:00 |
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請你們來我辦公室做個說明跟報告，好不好？ |
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1 |
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李委員坤城 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:14.818000+08:00 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:15.678000+08:00 |
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包括你的方向是怎麼樣。 |
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0.8 |
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邱部長泰源 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:15.678000+08:00 |
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1 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:16.678000+08:00 |
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好，沒問題。 |
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主席 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:16.678000+08:00 |
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1 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:17.678000+08:00 |
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部長，你們私底下再報告一下。 |
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| transcript.gazette[141].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:16.419000+08:00 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:37.632000+08:00 |
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不然僵在這邊，也沒有給我一個答案，再問下去就有一點不好意思，但是這個問題很嚴重，實務上也出現了問題，有的起訴，有的不起訴，有的緩起訴，所以最高檢察署才會發這個新聞稿，而且大家都開過會啦！ |
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0.88 |
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李委員坤城 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:38.834000+08:00 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:48.245000+08:00 |
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兩個月過去了，大家一樣沒有一個方向，這個問題很嚴重，我希望大家一起來做處理，好不好？好。 |
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0.947 |
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主席 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:48.405000+08:00 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:48.946000+08:00 |
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謝謝李委員。 |
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主席 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:49.446000+08:00 |
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1 |
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2024-10-23T12:33:52.017429+08:00 |
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接下來請洪孟楷委員。 |
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李委員坤城：（12時21分）謝謝主席，我們請衛福部的邱部長。 |
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主席：部長請。 |
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李委員坤城：然後法務部檢察司的郭司長，先請這兩位。部長好，司長好。 |
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邱部長泰源：委員好。 |
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李委員坤城：部長，我剛剛聽到賴士葆委員講，說民進黨要往大麻合法化的方向去走，我送他8個字，胡說八道！危言聳聽！你身為民進黨籍的部會首長，遇到這種隨便亂講的事情，馬上要澄清啊！馬上要駁斥啊！什麼叫做民進黨要往大麻合法化方向去走？亂講！ |
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邱部長泰源：是。 |
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李委員坤城：我現在來討論電子煙的問題，電子煙按照媒體的報導，去年3月菸害防制法通過之後，去年3月到今年9月稽查了50萬件，開罰了1,247件，成案率0.0025%。全國警方7到9月同一期間查獲喪屍煙彈違法案件681件，是衛福部的2.3倍，剛剛委員也都有在問，為什麼落差會這麼大？為什麼成案率這麼低？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：跟委員報告，我是國民健康署，其實電子煙是依菸害防制法來做執行，所以它的行政程序及行政調查的部分，跟警政署以毒品防制條例是有不一樣的。當然部長…… |
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李委員坤城：對，所以我說你開罰這麼低是法律有問題，還是執行有問題？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：其實這個是因為要進行行政的一些程序和約詢，所以程序上是比較長的。 |
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李委員坤城：那我再問你，我剛才都聽到了，50萬件次裡面，網路的查緝案件有三萬多件次，是不是？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：是。 |
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李委員坤城：比例太低。我剛剛有聽到，未來你們的目標在於網路上面的查緝，那為什麼網路上面的查緝會這麼低？我先問你，你們現在裁罰的話，網路上的裁罰是裁罰買家和賣家而已嗎？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：還有網路平臺。 |
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李委員坤城：有沒有處罰平臺？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：有。 |
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李委員坤城：有處罰平臺嗎？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：有。 |
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李委員坤城：處罰平臺的案例有多少？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：61件。 |
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李委員坤城：61件，那處罰多少錢？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：40萬開始。 |
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李委員坤城：40萬開始？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：對。 |
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李委員坤城：所以61件，每一件都40萬開始嗎？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：是。 |
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李委員坤城：這個可不可以用菸害防制法來做處罰？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：是，是用菸害防制法。 |
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李委員坤城：那為什麼才41件？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：61件。 |
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李委員坤城：你知不知道在網路上買電子煙非常非常容易？我只要在網路上面google「電子煙網購」，一大堆資訊都出來了，還跟你推薦有哪一些平臺是你可以去買的，你們有沒有看過？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：委員，我們很清楚這個狀況，所以我們…… |
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李委員坤城：都很清楚，那為什麼情況會這麼氾濫？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：所以我們與平臺業者是很密集地在開會，我也跟委員報告，我們甚至跟他們建立了綠色通道，大家互拋一些keywords和相關的訊息，確實，我們需要再…… |
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李委員坤城：按照國健署的資料，去年9月到12月有違法在網路上賣電子煙的，主要的平臺集中在Facebook、IG還有露天平臺，這3個平臺去年底3個月的案件，比例高達九成。 |
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賈副署長淑麗：對，它也是我們開罰最多的。 |
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李委員坤城：才41件啊！ |
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賈副署長淑麗：沒有，61件中…… |
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李委員坤城：才61件啊！ |
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賈副署長淑麗：但是這個有相當多的約詢程序。 |
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李委員坤城：我不太相信什麼約詢的程序，你去查了幾件？比如說你查了200件，最後成案41件、61件，那我可以接受，你們總共約詢了幾件？查了幾件？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：在網路上查緝就是3萬多件，3萬多件，但是因為我們從行政的裁處上面，我們要約詢賣家，還有刊登廣告…… |
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李委員坤城：所以按照菸害防制法第三十條就可以來做處罰了嘛？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：對，按照它有刊登的部分，進行網路業者的裁罰。 |
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李委員坤城：現在按照打詐專法，只要是境外的網路平臺，最遲要在今年10月31日以書面指定法律代表登記，就是說每一個平臺你們都找得到人，它都有法律的代表。過去常常講說這個是境外，查不到，沒辦法罰，可不可以從11月1日開始，全面對違規的廣告平臺去開罰？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：我們已經開始積極地開罰。 |
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李委員坤城：案件太少了啊！ |
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賈副署長淑麗：我們會加強。 |
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李委員坤城：這不成比例嘛！ |
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賈副署長淑麗：好，委員，我們會加強。 |
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李委員坤城：三萬多件而已啊！是網路比較難查，還是實體比較難查？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：我們兩個是雙頭並進。 |
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李委員坤城：那為什麼落差會這麼大？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：因為網路稽查的這個frequency，我們是由中央這邊一直不斷地在稽查，地方的話，47件的實體稽查是由地方進行實體稽查，所以我們有分工合作的部分。 |
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李委員坤城：我知道有分工啦！我是跟你講，電子煙在網路上買很方便，現在買賣電子煙有沒有違法？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：有，當然違法。 |
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李委員坤城：那為什麼我們在網路上打「電子煙」，到處都買得到？就表示它的處罰不夠重嘛！ |
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賈副署長淑麗：好，我們會加強，一定會加強，因為我們也看到這個問題的嚴重性。 |
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李委員坤城：我再問一下部長，最高檢察署在今年7月有發一個新聞稿，請問含尼古丁成分電子煙的製造、輸入、販賣、轉讓等行為，現在有沒有刑事責任？含尼古丁成分電子煙的製造、輸入、販賣、轉讓等行為，有沒有負刑事責任？有沒有？這不是很簡單的問題嗎？ |
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郭司長永發：跟委員報告，自從菸害防制法修正通過之後，有關於電子煙的部分全部都是行政罰鍰，那就產生一個法律問題，也就是說它修正前如果已經移送到地檢署的案子，在還沒有修正前其實是用藥事法的刑責來處理，但是…… |
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李委員坤城：去年3月之後呢？通過之後呢？ |
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郭司長永發：3月之後就會產生一個法律上的爭議，衛福部曾經發一個文給我們，認為這個應該要適用菸害防制法行政罰鍰來處理。 |
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李委員坤城：還是只有行政罰嘛！ |
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郭司長永發：對，我們把這個法律議案交給最高檢署來做研議，研議到最後的結果，因為包括實務上的運作、法院的判決都發生了歧異，最後最高檢署達成一個共識，就是從輕處理，就電子煙不含其他藥品或毒品的情況之下，或者沒有宣稱療效的類菸品案件，它的相關事實和法律適用如果有疑義的話，從輕處理，眼前大概講…… |
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李委員坤城：那就是行政罰。 |
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郭司長永發：就是行政罰。 |
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李委員坤城：可是按照最高檢察署的新聞稿，你們認為這個要不要負刑事責任？ |
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郭司長永發：因為主責機關是衛福部。 |
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李委員坤城：好，我來問衛福部。邱部長，含尼古丁成分電子煙的製造、輸入、販賣、轉讓等行為，是否要負刑事責任？是否要修藥事法？您的態度是怎麼樣？ |
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邱部長泰源：我的態度當然就是要嚴加管理。 |
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李委員坤城：嚴加管理，要不要修藥事法？ |
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邱部長泰源：我們來看法…… |
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李委員坤城：要不要修藥事法？還是就按照現在只有行政罰而已？你們的態度怎麼樣？ |
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莊署長聲宏：報告委員，因為在菸害防制法過了以後，它事實上已經不屬於藥事法處理的範圍。 |
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李委員坤城：我當然知道啊！所以最高檢察署才會有這個新聞稿出來嘛！因為在實務上，有的起訴，有的不起訴，有的緩起訴，莫衷一是啊！現在主管機關是衛福部，所以我問衛福部的態度，現在是行政罰，要不要修改藥事法，變成刑罰？刑罰的處罰，要不要？要不要往這個方向去走？這是立場、態度、政策啊！我問一下部長。 |
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邱部長泰源：我想嚴加管理是必要的啦！看用什麼方式，也要合乎它適用的法令，現在的法令是用菸害防制法，菸害防制法就目前是沒有…… |
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李委員坤城：菸害防制法就是行政罰，但是問題就在於說，每個法院判出來不一樣啊！所以咧？你們總是要有一個方向嘛！沒有方向？ |
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賈副署長淑麗：沒有，跟委員報告，因為…… |
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李委員坤城：沒有方向，這個問題就繼續嚴重下去啊！ |
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賈副署長淑麗：沒有，因為刑法這一件事情，用行政法是比較能夠快速跟簡易地去面對這個問題，所以為什麼我們現在的態度還是用行政法來做…… |
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李委員坤城：所以你不打算修改藥事法就對了？ |
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邱部長泰源：我想我們都可以來研議，看怎麼樣能夠管理好，然後快速。目前就是有法，已經有…… |
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李委員坤城：你們知不知道最高檢察署這個新聞稿？知道嗎？7月份的，知不知道？現在已經兩個多月過去了，到底衛福部的態度是怎麼樣？沒有態度？難怪電子煙這麼氾濫啊！ |
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主席（涂委員權吉代）：部長要不要私底下再跟李委員好好回復一下？因為已經超過5分鐘。 |
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邱部長泰源：好，我們來研議，因為這牽涉到法律的事情。 |
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李委員坤城：我看其他人都講很久啊！ |
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主席：其他人有講很久？ |
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李委員坤城：有，講很久啊！ |
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邱部長泰源：牽涉到法律的事情，我們還是要謹慎來處理。 |
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李委員坤城：我當然知道謹慎處理。 |
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邱部長泰源：會嚴加管理。 |
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李委員坤城：我是要知道一個態度跟方向啊！ |
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邱部長泰源：態度一定是嚴加管理。 |
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李委員坤城：嚴加管理，我知道。 |
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邱部長泰源：有效管理。 |
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李委員坤城：有效管理。 |
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邱部長泰源：對，這個是絕對堅持的原則。至於說…… |
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李委員坤城：對我來講，這個不是我要的答案。 |
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邱部長泰源：因為是否要負刑事責任…… |
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李委員坤城：沒關係啦！請你們來我辦公室做個說明跟報告，好不好？包括你的方向是怎麼樣。 |
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邱部長泰源：好，沒問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
主席：部長，你們私底下再報告一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
李委員坤城：不然僵在這邊，也沒有給我一個答案，再問下去就有一點不好意思，但是這個問題很嚴重，實務上也出現了問題，有的起訴，有的不起訴，有的緩起訴，所以最高檢察署才會發這個新聞稿，而且大家都開過會啦！兩個月過去了，大家一樣沒有一個方向，這個問題很嚴重，我希望大家一起來做處理，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
邱部長泰源：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
主席：謝謝李委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[104][1] |
接下來請洪孟楷委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
104 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-26-5 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
郭昱晴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-23 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1138901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1138901_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請衛生福利部部長、法務部、內政部、財政部、教育部列席就「有關新興煙毒品防制及強化虐
童防治作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1138901_00001 |