| IVOD_ID |
155944 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155944 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-23T10:56:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-23T11:04:38+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f30dcf391021d6391887c48038bffe0d7b602dab1c650f9e99cfeeb60987bc251d9cde2851d34635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱志偉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:56:10 - 11:04:38 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長就「我國碳費徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估，及政府協助企業因應之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就「我國碳邊境調整機制（CBAM）推動規劃」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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主席來發言好謝謝主席有請兩位次長連次長請兩位次長我們先看這邊資料在路透社有一位針對九位分析師的報告就是說他2027他們平均碳價的預測遠高於現在 |
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54.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
二零二七大概就是兩年之後到一百一十一歐元大概才會提降近四千塊那目前每噸大概預估是六十三歐元左右大概台幣兩千億啊如果按照這個趨勢我們所有產品要輸入這個歐盟如果即便我們有科技碳費但是你還要跟CBAM做接軌對不對那接軌你的價差不能太大 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
77.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我大概會發給你評證所以這部分你們要了解這個趨勢這個碳費對企業造成的壓力你們看中鋼就好了中鋼在高雄對不對那中鋼它的排放量將2000萬噸如果你現在用300塊的基準來看那它的碳費一年如果從2025開始開始這個開增有58億那鋼鐵業又不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
105.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
106.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
127.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
上游的大型的企業可以透過成本增加來轉嫁給中小這個下游、中下游的企業。而中下游企業又是中小型居多,它那個成本的轉嫁非常不容易。比如說,會不會就是工具機啊、扣件啊、螺絲啊,中小型,它要怎麼轉嫁? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
129.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
138.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這變成他必須要提高這個產品價格,變成他競爭力就不足。所以建保文啊,我覺得經濟部應該要有一個完整評估這碳費徵收之後對各個產業的相關的財務的衝擊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
143.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
163.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我覺得這部分你們沒有做,市長你們有做嗎?根本沒有,這部分我們有做很詳細的分析,所以剛剛為什麼像剛才委員講的鋼鐵它本身譬如說如果是最後談到所以才有那個那個優惠匯率嘛,優惠匯率,如果優惠匯率下來其實它的衝擊就沒有像之前的那麼大,就省一次百分之2.8,那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
大的一定是會轉嫁給小的所以說我們會做兩層一個是大的這邊像剛才講的會自主減量計畫我們一定要請他來提提了之後我們會協助他達成那個減量目標就等著衝擊就降小那他轉下去的那個幅度就不會那麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
198.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
從他姓友都大跟小而已,大中小,那這個如果這種各種狀況都會造成說這個所謂的中小型企業的這個成本提高,你們有沒有相關的差異化的補貼的方案? |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
223.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們沒有所謂的差異化是針對下游這些中小企業我們有專案的專案是剛才我特別提到是像南部這些因為有雙重的壓力像CBAM或是國內這樣的所以會針對有些產業比較特殊型的產業我們有特別去做那其他的就是比較一般性的專案做不到這個不只影響到上游、中下游整個產業供應鏈它的這個都會帶動連動的這個漲價 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
235.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
254.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
273.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
差距太大我們怎麼辦?因為其實歐盟要實施CBAM的這個目的就是要去平衡他自己境內的生產者因為他的總量管制跟交易的成本那因為他們從2005年已經實施很久了所以他們的成本包括他們的發電業全部都是要拍賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
274.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以他們所面臨的碳價會希望進口商也要承擔就跟我們現在國內產業呼籲是一樣所以我們會對我們如果這個差額很大我們要補但是一開始因為歐盟的製造業也像我們一樣有免費配額所以他會先扣掉他的免費配額的程度才所以那種初期對我們中小型的這些扣減影響不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
313.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
可能初期因為它那個降免費配額的那個比例一開始先從降零點降這個二點幾一兩趴所以大概可能初期前三四年影響還不會那麼高另外這個經濟部有個乾坤大挪移的計畫乾坤大挪移這個有關碳洩漏什麼叫碳洩漏?市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我這樣講啦不管產業是不是外移他現在已經是在境內了我們在台灣的我們也一定要協助他去做減碳啦沒有 乾坤大奴也就是說我們面對碳費挑戰比較大的這些企業我們外移到比較有競爭力的這個國家什麼叫有競爭力有碳費競爭力的國家啦並透過以小代大然後符合他的部長的境外關內的政策這個部分是不是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
381.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為他如果是移到剛才委員講的他碳費比較有利的地方他如果今天要做出口他不會是只有做到那個他如果要做出口一小代大就整個三峽要刷那裡然後又進外關內高碳排的這些產業要挪到國外碳費比較低的地方國家去 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
381.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
388.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那就符合碳洩漏啦,那市長你的想法呢?對經濟部的立場?這經濟部的立場喔?環境部的立場如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
392.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
417.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個跟委員報告是說其實像這個所謂我們現在有高碳洩漏風險的產業鋼鐵石化它要外移的機率可能沒有那麼高因為整個的這個設廠還有整個的這個生產成本的考慮碳費應該只是其中一項所以我相信這個都是一些我們可是乾坤大農業就是要把這些高碳牌的這個產業移到國外去啊不是嗎那個市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
419.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
444.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我想這個也是我們這個產業會希望通過台版的CBAM。那你們兩個部位,環境部跟經濟部在立場上面是基本上對立的喔?我認為啊,你們不會贊成這個經濟部的這個錢坤大挪移計畫?你們會贊成嗎?市長?沒有,我們是希望就是競速研擬台版的CBAM,讓這個高碳洩漏風險不要出去啦,不要覺得說要移動。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
445.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
465.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
而且其實東南亞很多國家未來要實施探架。海版CBAM是你們在制定嗎?海版CBAM我們跟經濟部、財政部一直要跨部會討論。那多久會出來?明年可能會先從要看怎麼申報開始。就像歐盟現在在申報。那海版CBAM計畫就沒有所謂的乾坤大奴役的啊?就不需要乾坤大奴役不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
466.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
492.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個是要不要把產業帶到那個比較有利的一個海外去?我想請問一下,乾坤大農業真是有這個計畫嗎?是有這個計畫還是構想?有這個計畫還是沒有?在研歷中?在研歷中?拒絕做還不知道?還在討論所以已經公布這個推動乾坤大農業計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
493.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
494.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好,謝謝邱委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2024-10-23T10:56:17.312000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2024-10-23T10:56:19.433000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席，有請兩位次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2024-10-23T10:56:20.833000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2024-10-23T10:56:20.833000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請兩位次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2024-10-23T10:56:21.014000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2024-10-23T10:56:49.188000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
連次長，我們先看這份資料，路透社一份由9位分析師做的報告顯示，2027他們對於平均碳價的預測遠高於現在，2027大概就是兩年之後會到111歐元，大概將近臺幣4,000塊，目前每噸預估大概是63歐元左右，大概是臺幣2,100。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.78 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2024-10-23T10:56:50.749000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2024-10-23T10:57:02.016000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
如果按照這個趨勢，所有的產品要輸入歐盟，即便我們有課碳費，但是你還是要跟CBAM接軌，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2024-10-23T10:57:02.176000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2024-10-23T10:57:17.582000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
接軌，你的價差不能太大，否則它不會發給你憑證，所以這部分你們要了解這個趨勢，碳費對企業造成的壓力，你們看中鋼就好了，中鋼在高雄，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2024-10-23T10:57:17.702000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2024-10-23T10:57:57.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
中鋼的排放量將近2,000萬噸，如果你現在用300塊的基準來看，如果從2025開徵，它的碳費一年要58億，鋼鐵業景氣又不好，中鋼的年度稅後淨利還不到17億，這又相當於它淨利的3倍，超過3倍，這個碳費制度對高碳排的產業會造成嚴重的財務衝擊，這是上游。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.381 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2024-10-23T10:57:57.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2024-10-23T10:57:58.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
那中下游怎麼辦？ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2024-10-23T10:57:57.724000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2024-10-23T10:58:17.256000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
它一定會轉嫁成本嘛，上游大型的企業可以透過成本增加來轉嫁給中下游的企業，中下游的企業又是中小型居多，它那個成本的轉嫁非常不容易，比如說下面就是工具機、扣件、螺絲，中小型企業要怎麼轉嫁？ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.81 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2024-10-23T10:58:19.100000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2024-10-23T10:58:34.238000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
就變成它必須要提高產品價格，它的競爭力就不足了，所以這部分我覺得經濟部應該要有一個完整評估，在碳費徵收之後對各個產業的相關財務衝擊，我覺得這部分你們沒有做。有。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.865 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2024-10-23T10:58:34.939000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2024-10-23T10:58:35.860000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
次長，你們有做嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2024-10-23T10:58:36.541000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2024-10-23T10:58:53.079000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
跟委員報告，這部分我們有做很詳細的分析，像剛才委員講的鋼鐵業本身，所以最後談到才會有優惠費率嘛，如果優惠費率下來，其實它的衝擊就沒有像之前的那麼大，等於是2.8%。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.795 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2024-10-23T10:58:53.179000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2024-10-23T10:59:12.561000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
當然，大的一定是會轉嫁給小的，所以我們會做兩層，一個是大的這邊，像剛才講的自主減量計畫我們一定會請它提，提了之後，我們會協助它達成那個減量目標，等於衝擊就降低了，它轉下去的那個幅度就不會那麼大。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.92 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2024-10-23T10:59:14.221000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2024-10-23T10:59:15.002000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
衝擊性大跟小而已嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.556 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2024-10-23T10:59:15.002000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2024-10-23T10:59:16.002000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
對，一定會有。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2024-10-23T10:59:15.642000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2024-10-23T10:59:16.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
大、中、小啦！對。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2024-10-23T10:59:18.623000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2024-10-23T10:59:28.506000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
如果各種狀況都會造成中小型企業的成本提高，成本提高的部分你們有沒有相關的差異化補貼方案？ |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2024-10-23T10:59:29.731000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2024-10-23T10:59:42.276000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
我們沒有所謂的差異化，是針對下游的這些中小企業，我們有專案，專案剛才我有特別提到，像南部這些因為有雙重的壓力，像CBAM或是國內這樣的……是啊。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2024-10-23T10:59:42.596000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2024-10-23T10:59:49.778000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
所以針對一些比較特殊型的產業，我們有特別去做，其他的就是比較一般性的專案做輔導。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.919 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2024-10-23T10:59:50.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2024-10-23T10:59:53.659000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
這個不只影響到上游、中下游，整個產業供應鏈都會帶動連帶漲價，連動漲價這個部分會造成某種程度的通膨效應，所有東西都會漲價耶！ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.518 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2024-10-23T10:59:53.659000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2024-10-23T11:00:05.102667+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
供應鏈我們會做，供應鏈我們真的會做。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2024-10-23T11:00:05.102667+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2024-10-23T11:00:16.546333+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
所以這是一個很嚴肅的問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2024-10-23T11:00:16.546333+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2024-10-23T11:00:27.990000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
施次長，未來實施CBAM，我們很多產品比方說金屬扣件，都是銷歐洲比較多，如果我們的碳費跟他們的CBAM差距太大，我們怎麼辦？ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.179 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
施次長文真 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2024-10-23T11:00:27.990000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2024-10-23T11:00:52.371000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
其實歐盟要實施CBAM的目的就是要去平衡它自己境內生產者的總量管制和交易成本，他們從2005年開始已經實施很久了，他們的成本，包括他們的發電業全部都是要透過拍賣來取得，所以他們面臨的碳價會希望進口商也要承擔，就跟我們現在國內產業呼籲是一樣。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.918 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2024-10-23T11:00:52.531000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2024-10-23T11:00:53.231000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
我們會面對嘛？ |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
施次長文真 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2024-10-23T11:00:53.692000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2024-10-23T11:01:03.115000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
對，如果這個差額很大我們要補，但是一開始因為歐盟的製造業也像我們一樣有免費配額，所以它會先扣掉免費配額的程度，然後扣掉出口國的碳價。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.803 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2024-10-23T11:01:04.035000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2024-10-23T11:01:07.797000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
所以可能初期對我們中小型的這些，譬如說扣件，影響不大？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
施次長文真 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2024-10-23T11:01:09.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2024-10-23T11:01:21.384000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
可能初期，因為它那個免費配額的比例一開始先降二點幾，然後1、2%，所以可能初期前3、4年影響還不會那麼高。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.93 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2024-10-23T11:01:21.404000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2024-10-23T11:01:23.585000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
另外，經濟部有一個乾坤大挪移計畫，這個是有關於碳洩漏，什麼叫碳洩漏？次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2024-10-23T11:01:36.280000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2024-10-23T11:01:43.945000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
我這樣講，不管產業是不是外移，它現在已經是在境內了，我們在臺灣的，一定要協助它去做減碳。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.949 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2024-10-23T11:01:44.965000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2024-10-23T11:01:54.231000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
不是，乾坤大挪移是說我們面對碳費挑戰比較大的這些企業，要外移到比較有競爭力的國家，什麼叫有競爭力？ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2024-10-23T11:01:54.691000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2024-10-23T11:01:56.032000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
有碳費競爭力的國家啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2024-10-23T11:01:57.813000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2024-10-23T11:02:04.157000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
並透過以大帶小，然後符合部長的境外關內政策，這個部分是否符合碳洩漏？ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.742 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2024-10-23T11:02:08.054000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2024-10-23T11:02:18.243000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
企業如果移到剛才委員講的，對碳費比較有利的地方，但是它如果要做出口，同樣會面臨這樣的問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.634 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2024-10-23T11:02:18.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2024-10-23T11:02:26.069000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
以大帶小就是整個產業要移到那裡，然後又境外關內耶！ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.565 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2024-10-23T11:02:26.069000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2024-10-23T11:02:33.116000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
就是說高碳排的這些產業要挪到國外碳費比較低的國家去，那就符合碳洩漏啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2024-10-23T11:02:34.078000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2024-10-23T11:02:34.599000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
施次長，你的想法呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2024-10-23T11:02:34.919000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2024-10-23T11:02:35.701000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
對經濟部的立場，這是經濟部的立場哦！ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2024-10-23T11:02:37.223000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2024-10-23T11:02:38.045000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
環境部的立場如何？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
施次長文真 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2024-10-23T11:02:42.554000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2024-10-23T11:02:52.942000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
跟委員報告，其實我們現在有高碳洩漏風險的產業，像鋼鐵、石化，它要外移的機率可能沒有那麼高啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.951 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
施次長文真 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2024-10-23T11:02:53.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:02.110000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
因為整個設廠還有生產成本的考慮，碳費應該只是其中一項，所以我相信這個都是一些…… |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:02.430000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:07.274000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
可是乾坤大挪移就是要把這些高碳排的產業移到國外去啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.88 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:07.674000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:07.934000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
不是嗎？次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
施次長文真 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:09.916000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:13.699000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
我想產業會希望透過臺版的CBAM…… |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:13.979000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:16.741000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
你們兩個部會，環境部跟經濟部的立場基本上是對立的哦！ |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:18.443000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:25.128000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
我認為你們不會贊成經濟部的乾坤大挪移計畫，你們會贊成嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.962 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:25.809000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:25.809000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
施次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.333 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
施次長文真 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:25.809000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:32.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
沒有，我們是希望儘速研擬臺版的CBAM，讓高碳洩漏風險不要出去啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.967 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
施次長文真 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:32.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:37.358000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
不要覺得說要移，而且東南亞很多國家未來也要實施碳價。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:38.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:39.819000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
臺版的CBAM是你們在制定，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.688 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
施次長文真 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:40.319000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:43.201000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
臺版的CBAM，我們和經濟部、財政部一起跨部會討論。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.826 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:43.401000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:44.902000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
多久會出來？ |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
施次長文真 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:44.902000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:50.285000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
明年可能會先從怎麼申報開始，就像歐盟現在在申報。 |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:50.765000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2024-10-23T11:03:55.368000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
有了臺版CBAM計畫，就沒有所謂的乾坤大挪移了，就不需要乾坤大挪移了，不是嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.743 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2024-10-23T11:03:57.432000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:03.557000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
要不要把產業帶到比較有利的海外去，這個要整個再評估。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:03.737000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:07.621000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
我想請教次長，乾坤大挪移，真的是有這個計畫嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.7 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:07.621000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:08.762000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
是有這個計畫，還是構想？ |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:10.844000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:12.185000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
有沒有這個計畫？ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:13.226000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:13.666000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
在研議中。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:14.147000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:16.589000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
在研議中，具體的做法還不知道？ |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.615 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:17.770000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:19.612000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
還在討論。 |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:20.012000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:22.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
已經公布推動乾坤大挪移計畫耶！ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.786 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:22.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:23.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
這個你們也要問問環境部的立場，環境部可能不會同意。好。 |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
0.042 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
邱委員志偉 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:23.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:24.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
因為我時間到了，好，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
施次長文真 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:24.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:25.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
連次長錦漳 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:25.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:26.194000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:23.911000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:24.031000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
謝謝邱委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
主席（邱委員志偉） |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2024-10-23T11:04:24.531000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2024-10-23T11:04:27.673857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
下一位質詢請蔡易餘委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
0 |
| gazette.lineno |
545 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
邱委員志偉：（10時56分）謝謝主席，有請兩位次長。 |
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主席：請兩位次長。 |
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邱委員志偉：連次長，我們先看這份資料，路透社一份由9位分析師做的報告顯示，2027他們對於平均碳價的預測遠高於現在，2027大概就是兩年之後會到111歐元，大概將近臺幣4,000塊，目前每噸預估大概是63歐元左右，大概是臺幣2,100。如果按照這個趨勢，所有的產品要輸入歐盟，即便我們有課碳費，但是你還是要跟CBAM接軌，對不對？接軌，你的價差不能太大，否則它不會發給你憑證，所以這部分你們要了解這個趨勢，碳費對企業造成的壓力，你們看中鋼就好了，中鋼在高雄，對不對？中鋼的排放量將近2,000萬噸，如果你現在用300塊的基準來看，如果從2025開徵，它的碳費一年要58億，鋼鐵業景氣又不好，中鋼的年度稅後淨利還不到17億，這又相當於它淨利的3倍，超過3倍，這個碳費制度對高碳排的產業會造成嚴重的財務衝擊，這是上游。那中下游怎麼辦？它一定會轉嫁成本嘛，上游大型的企業可以透過成本增加來轉嫁給中下游的企業，中下游的企業又是中小型居多，它那個成本的轉嫁非常不容易，比如說下面就是工具機、扣件、螺絲，中小型企業要怎麼轉嫁？就變成它必須要提高產品價格，它的競爭力就不足了，所以這部分我覺得經濟部應該要有一個完整評估，在碳費徵收之後對各個產業的相關財務衝擊，我覺得這部分你們沒有做。 |
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連次長錦漳：有。 |
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邱委員志偉：次長，你們有做嗎？ |
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連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，這部分我們有做很詳細的分析，像剛才委員講的鋼鐵業本身，所以最後談到才會有優惠費率嘛，如果優惠費率下來，其實它的衝擊就沒有像之前的那麼大，等於是2.8%。當然，大的一定是會轉嫁給小的，所以我們會做兩層，一個是大的這邊，像剛才講的自主減量計畫我們一定會請它提，提了之後，我們會協助它達成那個減量目標，等於衝擊就降低了，它轉下去的那個幅度就不會那麼大。 |
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邱委員志偉：衝擊性大跟小而已嘛。 |
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連次長錦漳：對，一定會有。 |
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邱委員志偉：大、中、小啦！ |
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連次長錦漳：對。 |
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邱委員志偉：如果各種狀況都會造成中小型企業的成本提高，成本提高的部分你們有沒有相關的差異化補貼方案？ |
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連次長錦漳：我們沒有所謂的差異化，是針對下游的這些中小企業，我們有專案，專案剛才我有特別提到，像南部這些因為有雙重的壓力，像CBAM或是國內這樣的…… |
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邱委員志偉：是啊。 |
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連次長錦漳：所以針對一些比較特殊型的產業，我們有特別去做，其他的就是比較一般性的專案做輔導。 |
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邱委員志偉：這個不只影響到上游、中下游，整個產業供應鏈都會帶動連帶漲價，連動漲價這個部分會造成某種程度的通膨效應，所有東西都會漲價耶！ |
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連次長錦漳：供應鏈我們會做，供應鏈我們真的會做。 |
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邱委員志偉：所以這是一個很嚴肅的問題。 |
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施次長，未來實施CBAM，我們很多產品比方說金屬扣件，都是銷歐洲比較多，如果我們的碳費跟他們的CBAM差距太大，我們怎麼辦？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
施次長文真：其實歐盟要實施CBAM的目的就是要去平衡它自己境內生產者的總量管制和交易成本，他們從2005年開始已經實施很久了，他們的成本，包括他們的發電業全部都是要透過拍賣來取得，所以他們面臨的碳價會希望進口商也要承擔，就跟我們現在國內產業呼籲是一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
邱委員志偉：我們會面對嘛？ |
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施次長文真：對，如果這個差額很大我們要補，但是一開始因為歐盟的製造業也像我們一樣有免費配額，所以它會先扣掉免費配額的程度，然後扣掉出口國的碳價。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
邱委員志偉：所以可能初期對我們中小型的這些，譬如說扣件，影響不大？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
施次長文真：可能初期，因為它那個免費配額的比例一開始先降二點幾，然後1、2%，所以可能初期前3、4年影響還不會那麼高。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
邱委員志偉：另外，經濟部有一個乾坤大挪移計畫，這個是有關於碳洩漏，什麼叫碳洩漏？次長。 |
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連次長錦漳：我這樣講，不管產業是不是外移，它現在已經是在境內了，我們在臺灣的，一定要協助它去做減碳。 |
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邱委員志偉：不是，乾坤大挪移是說我們面對碳費挑戰比較大的這些企業，要外移到比較有競爭力的國家，什麼叫有競爭力？有碳費競爭力的國家啦！並透過以大帶小，然後符合部長的境外關內政策，這個部分是否符合碳洩漏？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
連次長錦漳：企業如果移到剛才委員講的，對碳費比較有利的地方，但是它如果要做出口，同樣會面臨這樣的問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
邱委員志偉：以大帶小就是整個產業要移到那裡，然後又境外關內耶！就是說高碳排的這些產業要挪到國外碳費比較低的國家去，那就符合碳洩漏啦！施次長，你的想法呢？對經濟部的立場，這是經濟部的立場哦！環境部的立場如何？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
施次長文真：跟委員報告，其實我們現在有高碳洩漏風險的產業，像鋼鐵、石化，它要外移的機率可能沒有那麼高啦！因為整個設廠還有生產成本的考慮，碳費應該只是其中一項，所以我相信這個都是一些…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
邱委員志偉：可是乾坤大挪移就是要把這些高碳排的產業移到國外去啊！不是嗎？次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
施次長文真：我想產業會希望透過臺版的CBAM…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
邱委員志偉：你們兩個部會，環境部跟經濟部的立場基本上是對立的哦！我認為你們不會贊成經濟部的乾坤大挪移計畫，你們會贊成嗎？施次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
施次長文真：沒有，我們是希望儘速研擬臺版的CBAM，讓高碳洩漏風險不要出去啦！不要覺得說要移，而且東南亞很多國家未來也要實施碳價。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
邱委員志偉：臺版的CBAM是你們在制定，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
施次長文真：臺版的CBAM，我們和經濟部、財政部一起跨部會討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
邱委員志偉：多久會出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
施次長文真：明年可能會先從怎麼申報開始，就像歐盟現在在申報。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
邱委員志偉：有了臺版CBAM計畫，就沒有所謂的乾坤大挪移了，就不需要乾坤大挪移了，不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
連次長錦漳：要不要把產業帶到比較有利的海外去，這個要整個再評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
邱委員志偉：我想請教次長，乾坤大挪移，真的是有這個計畫嗎？是有這個計畫，還是構想？有沒有這個計畫？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
連次長錦漳：在研議中。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
邱委員志偉：在研議中，具體的做法還不知道？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
連次長錦漳：還在討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
邱委員志偉：已經公布推動乾坤大挪移計畫耶！這個你們也要問問環境部的立場，環境部可能不會同意。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
連次長錦漳：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
邱委員志偉：因為我時間到了，好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
施次長文真：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
連次長錦漳：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
主席：謝謝邱委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
主席（邱委員志偉）：下一位質詢請蔡易餘委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
52 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-19-7 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-23 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1138702 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1138702_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長就「我國碳費徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估，及政府協助企
業因應之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就
「我國碳邊境調整機制（CBAM）推動規劃」進行報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1138702_00001 |