| IVOD_ID |
155671 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155671 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-17T09:55:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-17T10:11:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c08b8ebdc8e306501a12ab4312e378960efc051a48f2135a9373a247fb1bb1c18d508fe8f4599eb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:55:32 - 10:11:59 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長就「農業部對於立法院決議提高公糧收購價格之評估與執行方案」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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985.73346875 |
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張啓楷委員質詢 |
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30.475 |
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42.183 |
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請陳部長今天在討論公糧這個價格已經13年沒有調整我先問你一個軍工教啊包括你這13年你調薪調了幾次我沒有去算 |
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55.717 |
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加薪加到都幾次都自己不曉得啊農民13年一次都沒有不會太可憐嗎我想公糧是目前全世界唯一有公糧保障價格的收入對阿你記得有這個他相對的他不是一個因為你只調公糧的時候那對其他的產業他是不公平的其他可以一起照顧阿首先我先問你問清楚你知道嗎你這13年農民一毛不拔的時候 |
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83.066 |
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你已經調薪調了4次你明年1月1號你要調薪對不對你明年要調13年來的第5次農民情何以堪你是農業部長 農業部所有的官員你不是應該照顧農民嗎你們自己加了5次加了17%喔你們好意思你們臉都不會謊說農民的公糧收購一碼錢都不要增加 |
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108.735 |
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好意思嗎?我在跟你講,部長,不是只有你們的薪水問題基本工資,農民也是要請人工對不對?基本工資,13年,調了12次上漲了43%這個要調跟物價有關係嘛對不對?農民也是人啊,也要過一季啊物價調了多少? |
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136.138 |
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149.802 |
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為什麼不幫農民呢?農民要給他們吃、給他們賺錢你現在變成一個怎麼樣?保證來,我告訴你現在我去跟他們說,民間是生的啦民間是生的,人家現在有問兩個問題嘛你自己丟,為什麼你沒丟?就是,你知道嗎?吃米不知道米多少喔? |
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166.331 |
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你現在說不夠農民的思維是不是?我問你一個,農民叫我問你的啦,你什麼農民現在很中啊,一分錢可以賺多少錢? |
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181.496 |
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一公斤一公斤差不多6到8萬6到8萬左右好一點的話7萬到8萬二期做的話大概4到6萬你看你看我給你拋錨給你1分底施股差不多1千公斤10幾塊對不對1千6百6十台幣10幾塊剩酒的剩酒的這平均人口外收益差不多這樣嘛好啊你不要看他的看你自己農業部的下面這個資料是你農業部的你農糧食的資料喔 |
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210.817 |
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一公頃實際能夠生產的你甘股一分地能夠生產的錢多少?一萬空一百一千一百二十二塊而已如果大部分的農民現在是租地對不對?把租地放進去,你看喔我現在給你看的是農業部的資料喔不然你自己看喔把租地的成本再放進去一公頃如果是兩萬四的話一公頃喔 |
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236.617 |
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農民辛辛苦苦 種一期 今年一期的稻作一公頃 你看先本來欠多少 你看15萬 你先看先看 有問題喔你先聽我講 這是你農業部的資料啦不是 他的那個實際生產成本已經包括了租地已經放進去了對啊 不然對不對阿這邊你又加了一個租地 重複加了什麼重複加 這是你農業部的對 農業部的 聽我聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽 |
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266.809 |
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一公頃十三萬兩千零九十九塊,把租金放進去,都加了兩萬四千三百二十七塊,那加起來,所以不能重複加,有重複啦,有重複啦 |
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284.48 |
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農業部的資料你回去對一下 |
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這是農民給我的我已經找了很多農民的東西都會送出來一分錢他差不多可以讓新本來開發這個包括肥料包括施工包括電子你看裡面一個大宗你看右邊這張圖農民那是很可憐的 |
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329.286 |
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一到三月電費就要發了多少錢?一萬二,三到五月電費是兩萬一,你看電費最近十三年,電費已經漲了多少了?電費我們有補貼啊有補貼,可是老實講也是漲對不對?這個就是成本之一嘛,我聽你講,來來,這是先本嘛,來你看下一張卡以下一個字,可以收下一個字,這是收嘛,對不對?公糧收購你差不多拿一個公頃 |
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一公頃只有15萬多 |
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382.349 |
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400.522 |
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欸 支出15萬多 收入只有17萬多如果你把它變成是一分地 一分地你看 收入17萬多 支出只有15萬多而已啊所以啊 張啓楷說一句話啦 保證剩一分地啦 沒用幾半年 半年喔 忙半年 |
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402.247 |
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那個賺的錢啊連紅白包一包都不夠不然你如果去吃火鍋你的紅包你至少要包個兩三千對不對農民辛辛苦苦賺半年沒人半年賺不到兩千塊欸只賺到多少一千七百零七十九塊欸 |
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422.54 |
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這個數據跟我們統計的數據差得非常多,就低的你算多少?你一分錢來你跟我說,你能收到多少?我用一公頃,就是除以十啦我不要這是一期做還是二期做,一期做的話大概六到八萬然後二期做到四到六萬然後如果齁,我昨天來特別請我們統計針對農家收入所得提到的純粹繳公糧的收益 |
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449.511 |
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451.772 |
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一分多就四千啦一分多就四萬啦一分多就四萬啦 |
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479.895 |
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我跟委員報告齁 農民的一個收益 讓全國的民眾 讓全國的民眾去公平 農業部長說我們農民忙了半年 沒人幾百天 看兩千塊的四千塊一盒 有夠的 |
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508.467 |
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有嗎?我跟委員報告齁,農民的收益一定是靠產品的優質化去提高價格而不是用政府的資金去貼他的部分優質化你在上面一擊二轉,你去做嘛這個是一個非常重要的觀念現在就是有這麼多人要靠這過一陣子,現在就是時間沒有了啊 |
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所以我們現在推了一級二準參加在希望說能夠提高他的所得因為這個數據有問題 我覺得會誤導你跟我的肉叉好 我說兩兩千塊都不到嘛你說可能有三四千 我只要講就是用你的四千塊我一期一期不對啦 我在說一期做是六到八千二期做是四到六千 加起來是差不多一萬 |
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你講話要對農民要負責這個是我們的統計數據來講現在張啓楷在這裏嘛政治問題沒有人幾百年賺紅白包就一百百不夠啦阿你講的也多兩包而已啦說實在的阿農民是要那麼可憐你的那個倒三天你這農業不定的我剛切進來你自己都在加薪了你1月1號馬上要加薪為什麼不馬上加薪阿我剛很理性那是兩碼子的事情欸我們不能這樣比對啊 |
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你自動放棄你的加薪你若不在意這個的話你加薪你放棄可不可以你放棄我就跟你放棄阿你憑啥加薪對吧不是你憑啥加薪這是兩件事情嘛政府的加薪跟農民公糧因為公糧是少部門的功能阿照顧農民不能隨便就是拿政府的錢我像我如果今天提高五塊農民拍拍手就結束了那對產業是沒有進步的阿 |
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你現在是不是見到113席立委的共識跟決議?那天表決的時候,有沒有人反對?邱毅英剛才在那裡說什麼?邱毅英剛剛有反對? |
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主決議提高五塊,他背後的目的就是希望盜農提高所得嘛那我們同樣提高盜農所得,我們用另外一個方式來執行,也是達到委員的目的嘛所以你要幫忙嘛,你讓他維持那基本的生活所需啊,是不是這樣?這是第一件事情,我現在跟你講的 |
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你為什麼當農業部長?你是中華民國的農業部長,你要遵守台灣的民主法治啊!所以我要照顧的是所有的產業,不是只有公糧的這些人!外地人說的事情,第一個他是有潛力可行的,一百年調高的一公斤調高三塊錢,立法院做的決議一百年,民國一百年的時候,立法院做的決議,行政部門就編了嘛,對不對?你有潛力可行,這是第一年嘛,第一年是民主化的社會 |
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那天我代表臺灣民眾黨提的這個案子每公斤調高26塊錢我們是要加速整個產業這個升級要照顧到農民喔那天表決你看那天韓國瑜韓主席說請問議員會照臺灣民眾黨黨團跟國民黨黨團修正動議通過每公斤調高5塊錢有沒有意義 |
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716.24 |
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739.566 |
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大家看一下那天的標刊這是立法院的公文書一個立法院反對都沒有包括民進黨的立法委員你現在不只站在農民對立面你現在站在所有立委的對立面而且我剛剛跟你講了一百年都照做了你為什麼不做有潛力可行第二個立法院通過的這是法治社會你憑什麼不做 |
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744.438 |
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農業部照顧所有的農民不是只有道農嗎?我們用另外一個方式來支持道農的所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
766.735 |
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你現在不是對立委喔你現在是對民意、對農民、對台灣的法治社會啊立法院以前就是這樣運作的啊結果你反其道而行 |
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793.749 |
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我們一直在照顧農民,我們用另外一個方式來照顧農民的 |
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823.53 |
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立法院的決議這是法治問題,台灣是法治的社會,民主的社會,你不要去過,又有潛力可行,你趕快編這是一個,你一直在講你什麼一級二轉,我跟你說,我去政科說聽不懂啦,因為二轉你轉十幾年了轉不動啊,好啦,我尊重你,你自己有專業,但你這雙軌啊,你算什麼便利的醫生啊,編完以後你去推你什麼一級二轉3加3 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
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這整個台灣民主社會,你現在就推翻了台灣的這個法制,你以為日本人要開會嗎?我今天做這個卦定,你現在不會理我嗎?啊日本人不會關起來?我問你這件事怎麼不定?你不遵守? |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
874.854 |
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我所瞭解的就是說在立法院本身的決議裡面如果可以要求我們因為預算是我們來編的那如果說有講到這個經費的部分的話我們必須要好好的評估這樣子一個決議是不是對我們的產業是有幫助的我們的預算都是透過立法院審查的你都可以催翻嘛是不是這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
902.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我沒有這個意思我沒有這個意思你要不只重視地方你要重視臺灣的民主法治我告訴你一百年是怎麼一百年過了就變了那就是法治的精神嘛全世界都有國會過的東西行政部門又把它推翻你這害臺灣了說實在的 |
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921.427 |
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943.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我做個折衷趕快編這個也是現在總預算要解決總預算要三個嘛原住民的精華條例要處理嘛通常其實請你接這個也沒有多少錢啊你看台電一下撥補一千億你要給人你那個雞蛋一下浪費了十億啊裡面浪費還很多我們會大砍會嚴格監督的你砍下來的錢都足夠去給農民了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
944.901 |
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973.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好不好?我做折衷方案趕快編然後你去推你的那個一級二轉看農民到底要不要接受啦好不好?反正你有加油啦,我是知道人家都說你故意啊結果你故意的東西,你的尊重發低啊你不能夠一直在農民的對立面一直在...我們絕對不會站在農民的對立面內我們一定會用實際的行動去支持產業的發展對啊,所以你用你的一級二轉3加3你一面子嘛可是這個是立法院牽扯到台灣的民宿發低捏 |
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975.39 |
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975.47 |
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主席 |
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張委員啓楷：（9時56分）多謝主席，請部長。 |
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主席：請陳部長。 |
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陳部長駿季：委員好。 |
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張委員啓楷：部長，今天要討論公糧價格已經13年沒有調整了，我先問你，軍、公、教包括你，這13年來調薪調了幾次？ |
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陳部長駿季：我沒有去算。 |
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張委員啓楷：加薪加到連加幾次自己都不曉得，農民13年來一次都沒有，不會太可憐嗎？ |
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陳部長駿季：我想公糧是目前全世界唯一有保障價格的收入。 |
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張委員啓楷：對啊！你記得有這個…… |
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陳部長駿季：相對地，它不是一個……因為你只調公糧的時候，對其他的產業是不公平的。 |
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張委員啓楷：那可以一起照顧啊！部長，我先把你問清楚，你知道這13年來對農民一毛不拔的時候，你已經調薪調了4次，你明年1月1日也要調薪，對不對？ |
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陳部長駿季：我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
張委員啓楷：你明年要調13年來的第5次，農民情何以堪？你是農業部長，農業部所有的官員，你們不是應該要照顧農民嗎？你們自己加了5次，加了17%，你們好意思？你們可以臉都不會紅地說，農民的公糧收購價格一毛錢都不用增加，好意思嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
張委員啓楷：我在跟你講，部長，不是只有你們的薪水問題，還有基本工資，農民也是要請人的對不對？基本工資13年來調了12次，上漲了43%，這個要調是因為跟物價有關係嘛，對不對？農民也是人，他們也要過日子啊！物價調了多少？物價指數至少上漲了15%，農作物的成本最少有25%，從你的薪水、勞工的薪水、基本工資到物價，為什麼不幫農民呢？農民這樣賺的夠吃嗎？你現在變成一個怎麼樣？部長，我跟你講，現在我到地方去，民怨是升的啦！民怨是升的，現在就遇到兩個問題，為什麼你自己有調，但他們沒有調？第二個，你現在是吃米不知米價嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
張委員啓楷：你現在是不用顧農民的死活了，是不是？我問你一下，這是農民叫我問你的，部長，你知不知道農民現在種水稻，一分地一期可以賺多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳部長駿季：一公頃一期差不多是6萬到8萬左右，好一點的有7萬到8萬；二期作的話大概是4萬到6萬…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長，你看，我有PowerPoint給你，一分地差不多生產濕穀1,000公斤，也就是16割，有1,666台斤對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳部長駿季：16割算少的。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
張委員啓楷：算少的，平均下來的數字差不多就這樣。好，那你不要看它的，看你們農業部自己的，下面的那個資料是你們農業部的，是你們農糧署的資料喔！一公頃實際能夠生產的乾穀，一分地能夠生產的錢是多少？才1萬0,122元而已。大部分的農民現在是租地的，對不對？我現在呈現給你看的是農業部的資料，部長你自己看，把租地的成本再放進去，一公頃如果是2萬4的話，農民辛辛苦苦種一期，今年一期的稻作一公頃的成本要多少你自己看！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，你的這個資料有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
張委員啓楷：你先看，注意聽，你先聽我講，這是你們農業部的資料啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳部長駿季：不是，它的實際生產成本已經包括了租地。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
張委員啓楷：沒有錯啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳部長駿季：但這邊你又加了一個租地，是重複加的。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
張委員啓楷：什麼叫做重複加！這是你們農業部的…… |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳部長駿季：對，農業…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
張委員啓楷：聽我講、聽我講，你看上面的實際生產成本一公頃是13萬2,099元對不對？把租金…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳部長駿季：這個已經包括租地了。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
張委員啓楷：聽我講、聽我講，把租金放進去，多加2萬4,327塊。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳部長駿季：我的意思是說，那13萬2,099元是已經包括地租了，所以不能重複加啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
張委員啓楷：不是重複，哪有重複加？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳部長駿季：有重複啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
張委員啓楷：你聽我講，這是你們農業部的資料，你是在跟我吵什麼！ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳部長駿季：我很正確地跟你講，我們在做成本分析的時候，這十三萬多是已經把地租放進去了，所以不能又加上地租變成15萬。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以是多少？你說你…… |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳部長駿季：一期作大概是13萬1到13萬2，這是平均；二期作大概是十二萬多左右，所以大概是12萬、13萬。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
張委員啓楷：我跟你講，這是你農業部自己的資料，你回農業部的時候自己去對一下。第二個，這是農民給我的，是我去找很多農民跟農會算出來的，一分地的成本差不多要花多少錢？包括肥料、包括施工、包括電費。你看這是大宗，右邊這張圖，農民老實說實在可憐，光是1到3月電費就要花了多少錢？1萬2,000，到5月的電費是2萬1,000，你看電費近13年來已經漲多少了？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳部長駿季：電費我們有補貼啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
張委員啓楷：有補貼，可是老實講也是漲，對不對？這個就是成本之一嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
陳部長駿季：沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
張委員啓楷：我先跟你說，來，這是成本。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][1] |
你看下一張，花那麼多錢可以收多少錢進來，這是收入嘛！對不對？公糧收購如果1公頃一期14萬，他有些是賣給糧商，沒有全部給你，他的總收入大概只有十七萬多。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][2] |
來，我們看下一張，你把他的收入減掉他自己的成本，這很簡單嘛！這是國小的數學題嘛！部長你看一下，1公頃收入要忙半年喔！一期稻米要忙半年，1公頃支出有十五萬多，收入只有十七萬多。如果你把它變成是1分地，你看收入十七萬多，支出只有十五萬多而已，所以鄉下說一句話，部長，「種一分地，忙半冬」半年喔！忙半年，那個賺的錢連紅白包都不夠一包，部長你如果去喝喜酒，你的紅包至少要包個兩、三千，對不對？農民辛辛苦苦種半年、忙半年，賺不到2,000塊，只賺到多少？1萬7,079塊。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳部長駿季：這個數據跟我們統計的數據差得非常多，這是第一個。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
張委員啓楷：差很多？差多少？你算下來1分地是差多少？來，你跟我說，可以收入多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
陳部長駿季：我用一公頃除以10，我不知道這是一期作還是二期作？一期作的話大概6到8萬，然後二期作4到6萬，我昨天我們還特別統計針對農家收入所得提到的，純粹繳公糧的收益低於繳民糧的收益，那代表什麼？其實產地的價格提升才是確保農民的收益。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
張委員啓楷：你剛才說什麼？你說1公頃半年可以賺多少錢？4萬到多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
陳部長駿季：就看一期作物…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
張委員啓楷：4萬到6萬，你比我算的還少，你1分地不到2,000，你只有用1公頃，不就不到1,000塊？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
陳部長駿季：1分地就4,000啦，1公頃就4萬啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
張委員啓楷：忙了半年，1分地可以賺多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
陳部長駿季：一期差不多6萬到8萬，你如果用1分地，6,000到8,000啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
張委員啓楷：我算出來是連一個紅包2,000塊不到，你說2個紅包，你不覺得農民很可憐嗎？13年因為你沒有調，讓農民這麼可憐，你還不調！ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，農民的收益…… |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
張委員啓楷：讓農民、讓全國的民眾去公評，農業部長說我們農民忙了半年，賺2,000塊、4,000塊是夠的，有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，農民收益一定是靠其產品的優質化去提高價格，而不是用政府的資金去貼他的部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
張委員啓楷：優質化是什麼1集、2轉，你去做嘛！剛剛有說用雙軌…… |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
陳部長駿季：這個是一個非常重要的觀念。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
張委員啓楷：現在就是有這麼多人要靠這個過日子，現在就是賺不到錢啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
陳部長駿季：所以我們現在推了「1集、2轉、3加3」，希望能夠提高他的所得。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長，我們是很理性的，我們把每一個成本、每一個收入都算給你…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
陳部長駿季：因為這個數據有問題，我覺得會誤導。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
張委員啓楷：你跟我的落差，好，我說連2,000塊都不到嘛！你說可能有三、四千，我現在跟你說，就是用你的4,000塊，我認為你是不對的，那終究用你的4,000塊，農民也…… |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
陳部長駿季：沒有，我這樣說，一期作是六到八千，二期作是四到六千，加起來是差不多1萬。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
張委員啓楷：你講話要對農民負責，這個全民都會…… |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
陳部長駿季：我負責的，這個是我們的統計數據來講…… |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
張委員啓楷：現在在鄉下就是這句話「種一分地，忙半冬，賺嘸紅白包一包」，你說的也只多2包而已，說實在的，農民為什麼要這麼可憐？你可以幫忙他，你是農業部長，我剛剛切進來，你自己都要加薪了，你1月1號馬上要加薪，為什麼不幫忙？第二個，我們剛才很理性…… |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
陳部長駿季：委員，公務人員加薪與公糧收購是兩碼子的事情，我們不能這樣比對。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
張委員啓楷：好啦！那你不要加嘛！部長，你不要加薪，你自動放棄你的加薪，你如果不在意這個的話，你加薪，你放棄，可不可以？你連農民都顧不到了，你憑什麼加薪？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
陳部長駿季：你放棄，我就跟你放棄，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
張委員啓楷：不是，你憑什麼加薪？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
陳部長駿季：這是兩件事情嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
張委員啓楷：什麼兩件事，你為什麼當部長，不就是要照顧農民嗎？你放棄你的加薪，好不好？你根本連照顧都照顧不到…… |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
陳部長駿季：政府的加薪跟農民公糧，因為公糧只是少部分的，照顧農民不能隨便拿政府的錢，我如果今天提高5塊，農民拍拍手就結束了，但對產業是沒有進步的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
張委員啓楷：怎麼會沒進步？來，我跟你說，現在我是很理性跟你講支出跟成本。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][1] |
我現在跟你說另外一個事情，你今天站在這裡，你不只不要站在農民的對立面，你也不要站在立法委員的對立面，我問你一下，你現在是不是賤踏113席立委的共識跟決議？那天表決的時候多少人？有沒有人反對？邱議瑩剛才在那邊說那麼大聲，邱議瑩那天有反對嗎？那天有任何一個民進黨的立委出來反對嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，主決議提高5塊，其背後的目的就是希望稻農提高所得嘛！我們同樣提高稻農所得，我們用另外一個方式來執行，也是達到委員的目的嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
張委員啓楷：我現在跟你說，我都給你看成本了，農民已經肚子餓到就是基本上他的收入已經不夠了，所以你要幫忙嘛！你只要讓他維持基本的生活所需，是不是這樣？這是第一個。第二個，我現在跟你說的，你為什麼當農業部長？你是中華民國的農業部長，要遵守臺灣的民主法治，你聽我說，立法院通過的…… |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
陳部長駿季：所以我要照顧的是所有的產業，不是只有公糧的這些人。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長，我們要說兩個事情，第一個，它是有前例可循的，100年1公斤調高3塊錢，立法院做的決議，民國100年的時候，立法院做的決議，行政部門就編了嘛！對不對？你有前例可循，這是第一個。第二個，我們是民主法治的社會，那天的表決是怎樣？那天我代表台灣民眾黨提了這個案子，每公斤調高26塊錢，我們是要加速整個產業升級，要照顧到農民，那天表決，你看韓國瑜韓主席說：請問院會，照台灣民眾黨黨團跟國民黨黨團修正動議通過，每公斤調高5塊錢，有沒有異議？大家看一下，那天的表決，這是立法院的公文書，一個立法委員反對都沒有，包括民進黨的立法委員，你現在不只站在農民對立面，你現在站在所有立委的對立面，而且我剛剛跟你講了，100年都照做了，你為什麼不做？有前例可循。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
陳部長駿季：農業部的…… |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
張委員啓楷：第二個，立法院通過的，這是法治社會，你憑什麼不做？剛才說總預算卡住，當然卡住啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
陳部長駿季：我想主決議…… |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
張委員啓楷：你不照顧農民，我跟你說，我去問了財政部長，問了主計長，人家都說可以編，就是缺你一句話，要照顧農民反而卡在農業部，這不是滑天下之大稽嗎？你怎麼對得起農民？再看一次這個，沒有任何包括…… |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
陳部長駿季：農業部照顧的是所有的農民，不是只有稻農…… |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
張委員啓楷：剛才在講話的邱議瑩，他那天有反對嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
陳部長駿季：我們用另外一個方式來支持稻農的所得，讓我們的產業會進步。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
張委員啓楷：好，你那麼有把握，你去講你們的1集、2轉，就雙軌做嘛！現在問題是立法院通過的決議，當天都沒有一個立委反對，你為什麼要跟所有的立委反對、要坐在對立面？更嚴重的，你現在不是對立委，你現在是對民意、對農民、對臺灣的法治社會，立法院以前就是這樣運作的，結果你反其道而行，你破壞了臺灣的民主跟法治。這樣以後立法院就不用開會，部長…… |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
陳部長駿季：我想以農業部的立場，就是要讓我們的產業能夠持續的…… |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長，以後立法院就不用開會了，說實在的，這個案子立法院通過了，而且當天一個人反對都沒有，你不做，立法院不就要關起來，你又是部長，你為什麼不照顧農民？ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
陳部長駿季：我們一直在照顧農民，我們用另外一個方式來照顧農民。 |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
張委員啓楷：我跟你講，剛剛邱議瑩一直在講，你用雙軌嘛！立法院的決議，這是法治問題，臺灣是法治的社會、民主的社會，立法院通過的，又有前例可循，你趕快編，這是一個。你一直在講1集、2轉，我跟你說，我去鄉下，他們說聽不懂啦！因為2轉已經轉十幾年了，轉不動啊！好啦！我尊重你，你自己有專業，那你就雙軌啊！你也要編這個預算啊！編完以後，你去推「1集、2轉、3加3」，3年多3塊，繼續做嘛！看農民有贊同你嗎？我們今天講的不是完全照顧農民，這是整個臺灣民主社會，你現在就推翻了臺灣的法治，以後立法院要開會嗎？我今天做這個決定，你現在不理我，立法院不就關起來，我問你最簡單的，部長，這個你不遵守，立法院開會是開什麼意思？ |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
陳部長駿季：我所了解的就是在立法院本身的決議裡面，如果可以要求我們，因為預算是我們來編的，那如果有講到經費的話，我們必須要好好的評估這樣子的決議是不是對產業是有幫助的…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以你高高在上，所以立法院要關起來了，你們去評估就好了嘛！是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
陳部長駿季：絕對不是高高在上，我們的預算都是透過立法院審查的。 |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長，你就是沒有要照顧農民，沒關係！你可以評估嘛！立法院任何的決議你都可以推翻嘛！是不是這個意思？ |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
陳部長駿季：我們一直在照顧所有農民，我沒有這個意思。 |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
張委員啓楷：這樣立法院不就關起來就好了？ |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
陳部長駿季：我沒有這個意思。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
張委員啓楷：你不只重視立法院，你要重視臺灣的民主法治，我講過了，100年為什麼立法院通過了，人家就編了？那就是法治精神嘛！全世界哪有國會通過的，行政部門又把它推翻，你在害臺灣啦！說實在的。 |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
主席：好，謝謝張委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
張委員啓楷：我做個折衷，趕快編，這個也是現在總預算要解決的，總預算有三個嘛，原住民禁伐補償條例要處理，最重要的其實是你這個，這個也沒有多少錢啊，你看台電一下撥補1,000億，但你那個雞蛋一下浪費了10億啊！你還浪費很多，我們一定會大砍，會嚴格監督的，砍下來的錢都足夠去給農民了啦，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
主席：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
張委員啓楷：我們做折衷方案，趕快編，然後你去推你的1集、2轉，看農民到底要不要接受啦，好不好？部長，加油啦！說實在的，人家都說你老實，但你老實的同時，你要尊重法治啊！你不能夠一直站在農民的對立面，一直在立法院的對立面。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
陳部長駿季：沒有，我們絕對不會站在農民的對立面，我們一定會用實際的行動去支持產業的發展。 |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
張委員啓楷：對啊，所以你用「1集、2轉、3加3」一邊去做嘛，可是這個是立法院……這牽扯到臺灣的民主法治耶！老實說，你這樣做下去，農民會抗議，立法院會關起來，拜託一下，為了臺灣、為了臺灣，為了臺灣的民主法治，快點編。好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
陳部長駿季：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
主席：請鄭正鈐委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
192 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-19-6 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
107 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-17 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1138501 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1138501_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請農業部部長就「農業部對於立法院決議提高公糧收購價格之評估與執行方案」進行報告，並
備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1138501_00002 |