| IVOD_ID |
151318 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151318 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-23-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-17T12:32:18+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-17T12:39:29+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:11 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f0162727aaebc2148ca5850e5cada98db34c32c5dab72e655c1c9477e467243de167255ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:32:18 - 12:39:29 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-17T10:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長王國材就「花蓮地震公路、鐵路、空運、海運應變機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「國道六號東延花蓮建設特別條例草案」案。
【詢答及處理】
【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
483 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員世堅：（12時32分）主席，我請部長跟臺鐵的董事長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
王部長國材：王委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王委員世堅：部長，給東部人一條安全回家的路，這句話已經講了幾十年了，也經過兩黨輪流執政之後，在各黨執政時期都個別發生過往東部鐵路的意外事件，這次我們有一個六年的改善計畫，從104年到111年，也花了不少錢，花了10億元，其實真的有效的話，不要說10億元，就算是100億元、再多的金額都應該花。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
我今天跟你提起這件事情是因為我發現臺鐵所布建、檢測這些邊坡落石的地段、滑動的地段，我覺得過於草率了，花是有花了10億元沒錯，但是你們檢測到的，第一點，你們檢測是用基本的目測、目視，第二點，目視認為有危險的地方你們才去加裝這一些警示器、偵測器，事實上我都覺得這已經太被動而且也太少，我就舉例，整個臺鐵沿線你們設的這些邊坡落石警示器，你們有設26處，反觀高鐵，高鐵只有在我們臺灣的西岸，光高鐵就高達95處之多，高鐵就95處喔！它只在我們西岸，更何況高鐵經過的地區大部分都屬於平面路段，在那樣子的情況下，它對於它會接觸到的邊坡，它就那麼細緻、詳細的去規劃、去檢測、去做警示器，而你臺鐵呢？你通過的不只是我們臺灣西部地點，還包括東北段整個環臺灣的鐵路這樣下來，這26處你說得過嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][2] |
第二點，4月10號普悠瑪又發生邊坡落石導致出軌的事情，這一次發生問題的地點還不在你們26處的偵測當中，天啊！到底還有多少地方你們沒有監測、沒有去檢測到、沒有去裝設監視系統？所以還是個很大的未知數。針對這個部分，部長的看法為何？這個部分要怎麼加強？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
王部長國材：我跟委員報告，的確過去臺鐵有的用鋼軌樁來當柵欄，然後在邊坡做一些攔石頭的設備，後來這26處已經做好，現在我們另外有一個計畫是做38處。而剛才委員所提到的，的確這一次是從上面的公路邊坡掉到鐵路軌道，在檢查裡面鐵路邊坡是OK的，但是它從上面公路這樣掉下來，所以這個是在這一次…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王委員世堅：所以是從公路掉下來，部長，你這又提醒了我另外一點，結果我們臺鐵多妙，它所檢測的範圍，它表示20公尺範圍內才是它，超過20公尺的，它表示要看看所有權人是誰，所以它一推就推給公路局，或者推給其他邊坡地主的身上，這不是很奇怪嗎？20公尺怎麼算的啦？這次我們光看地震所掉下來的大石頭，來源都不只20公尺啦，不是嗎？所以你們20公尺怎麼算的呢？局長，你的算法是什麼？董事長，你們怎麼計算？你是這一部分的專業，你是在鐵路局從基層一路上來的！對於鐵路系統的安全以及它的檢測、偵測系統，你應該更謹慎才對啊，不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
杜董事長微：是，跟委員報告，這個20公尺是指我們路權的開始起算，的確像這一次地震而發生公路側邊坡的這件事情，我們未來會加強跟公總的聯繫，我們不會把這個區塊放過。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王委員世堅：加強跟公路總局的聯繫，公路總局有很多，我就提供一樣，它有朝巡啦！就是在重大的地震事故、天災之後，他們會針對每一處可能的地點去做朝巡，每次一啟動就是連續7天，請問我們鐵路公司有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
王部長國材：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王委員世堅：沒有吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
王部長國材：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
杜董事長微：我們也有自己巡軌的一個規定。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
王委員世堅：你們有自己的巡軌規定？怎樣的規定？至少我在你們所有的報告裡面看不到，它是朝巡，人家一早就出動啦！你是夜巡嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
王部長國材：我跟委員報告，剛才談到的，有的叫定檢，有一個叫特別檢查，就是地震以後他們都馬上發動特別檢查，然後我們交通部有一個系統會通知它哪一些地方要特別檢查，這個有在做。的確剛剛委員提到的那個我覺得很重要，就是現在的危害已經不是只看自己路權的部分，它上面有公路，知道上面可能有東西會掉下來，所以我會請兩個局要看一下，像這種從公路邊坡掉到鐵路邊坡再掉到軌道，這件事情在後續的落石告警系統就要去處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
王委員世堅：好。謝謝主席。部長，記得喔！20公尺是很顢頇的，這是自我設定，那是錯誤的，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
王部長國材：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
王委員世堅：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
主席：謝謝王世堅委員的發言。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][1] |
下一位請許宇甄委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
342 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-23-7 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
陳雪生 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
魯明哲 |
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林沛祥 |
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黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
邱若華 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
林憶君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
黃仁 |
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許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
陳培瑜 |
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沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
291 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-17 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1133001 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1133001_00007 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請交通部部長王國材就「花蓮地震公路、鐵路、空運、海運應變機制」進行專題報告，並
備質詢；二、審查委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「國道六號東延花蓮建設特別條例草案」案 |
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主席,我請部長跟台鐵的董事長。給東部人一條安全回家的路。那這句話已經講了幾十年了。那也經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.915 |
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兩黨輪流執政之後那也都各別在各黨執政時期都有發生過在往東部鐵路的意外事件那這一次我們有一個改善的六年計劃一百零四年到一百一十一年也花了不少錢花了十億元其實喔真的有效的話不要說十億元啦一百億元再多的金額都應該花 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.98 |
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我今天跟你提起這件事情就是說我發現我們台鐵所布建所檢測的這些邊坡落石的地段滑動的地段我覺得齁過於草率啦花是有花了十億元沒錯但是你們檢測到的第一點你們檢測是用基本的目測目視 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
89.963 |
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那第二點牧師有認為有危險的地方你們才去加裝這些警示器啦偵測器這一些那事實上我都覺得這已經太被動而且也太少我就舉例你在整個台鐵這個沿線你們設的這些邊坡落石警示器你們有設26處 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
120.646 |
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那這26處光高鐵啊高鐵只有在我們台灣的西岸光高鐵他就高達95處之多啦高鐵就95處他只在我們西岸更何況高鐵經過的地區大部分都屬於平民路段 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
147.325 |
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167.722 |
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那樣子的情況下他對於他會接觸到的邊坡他就那麼細緻、詳細的去規劃、去檢測、去做警示器而你台鐵你通過了你不只是我們台灣西部地點你包括東北段整個環台灣的 |
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171.772 |
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這次發生問題的地點還不在你26處的偵測當中天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
199.406 |
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所以到底還有多少地方我們沒有檢測 沒有去檢測到 沒有去裝設監視系統 所以還是個很大的未知數 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
213.103 |
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所以這個部分齁,那個部長你的看法呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
217.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
218.647 |
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這個部分要怎麼加強? |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
243.403 |
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260.279 |
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那他的確在他檢查裡面是鐵路的變貌是OK的但是從上面公路這樣掉下來所以這個是在這次這一個所以是從公路上那部長你這又提醒了我另外一點結果我們台鐵多妙他所檢測的範圍他說啊20公尺 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
264.746 |
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範圍內才是他欸超過20公尺的一公那要看看所有全人是誰那很多那個那個就是他一推456就推給公務局或者推給其他邊坡那些坡地地主的身上這不是很奇怪嗎20公尺你20公尺怎麼算的啦這次我們觀看地震那個大石頭那個來源都不止20公尺啦不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
292.458 |
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315.021 |
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所以你20公尺怎麼算的呢?局長你的算法是怎麼算的?欸那個董事長,你們怎麼算法?你是這一部分專業欸!你是鐵路局從基層一路上來的欸!你應該對鐵路系統的安全、它的檢測、它的布測這些偵測系統,你應該更謹慎才對啊不是嗎?是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
317.268 |
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341.849 |
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跟委員報告這個20公尺是指我們路權開始計算那的確啦像這一次我們這個地震發生在公路側的邊坡的這件事情我們未來會加強跟公路總局那邊的一個聯繫我們不會把這個加強跟公路總局的聯繫公路總局很多至少我覺得我光提供一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
343.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
370.442 |
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他有召詢啦就是說重大的地震事故天災之後人家他們啦會針對每一處可能的地點他們去做召詢每一次一起動連著就7天我請問啊我們鐵路局可有啦鐵路公司可有沒有吧我們也有我們自己巡軌的一個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
371.857 |
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388.25 |
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你們有你們選舉的規定?怎樣的規定?至少我在你所有的報告裡面看不到。他是招詢。人家他早上一早就出動啦。你夜詢嗎?我跟委員剛才談到的有的叫定檢。一個叫特別檢查。就地震以後他們都馬上發動這個特別檢查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
390.191 |
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419.731 |
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然後我們在這個交通部有一個系統會通知他說哪一些地方要特別檢查這個我在做的確剛剛委員提到那個我覺得很重要就是說他的現在的危害已經不是只有看自己路線的部分他上面有公路他知道說上面有可能下來所以我覺得在這一次我也請他們兩個局要看一下像這一種從這個公路邊坡掉到鐵路的邊坡然後掉到軌道這一件事情在後續的落實告警系統就要去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
420.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
428.758 |
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謝謝主席那個部長記得喔20公尺這個是蠻憨的自我設定那是錯誤的好不好好謝謝 |