| IVOD_ID |
150812 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150812 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-01T12:43:47+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-01T12:50:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:06:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0aba9175090c3fd260ac6c5f5acaf79d9f8ba9b0039caa7a648e605c7b2b947165ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:43:47 - 12:50:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案。(詢答及處理)） |
| gazette.lineno |
817 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（12時43分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請龔主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：黃委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
黃委員國昌：主委好。延續上一次質詢的主題，我要重申一次，就是要發展再生能源，要發展綠能，我相信絕大多數的國人都支持，但是在這個過程當中，如何跟其他的利益取得比較好的平衡，而且不能有不正常的政商關係，我相信這是大家都有的共識，上次主委你也贊成嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：贊成。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
黃委員國昌：農電共生是不是您督導的？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：那是我在當政務委員的時候。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
黃委員國昌：你當政務委員的時候是你督導的？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：那個時候…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
黃委員國昌：那個時候是不是有廠商在施壓政府，要把台糖廣大的林地給釋出來，讓他們搞種電？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：不是這樣的說法，而是說因為台糖林地每20年會有review，是不是有林相比較差的部分，怎麼種都種不好的那個部分，是不是有部分可以釋出，是這樣子的。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
黃委員國昌：後來這個政策是不是引發了當地的居民跟環團強烈的抗議？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：是有不同的聲音。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
黃委員國昌：後來台糖是不是把這個案子給停下來了？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：是停下來了，沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
黃委員國昌：現在打算要繼續推動嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：因為現在已經不歸我督導了。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
黃委員國昌：OK，還好不歸你督導，你終於從那個泥沼裡面爬出來了。為什麼我今天要質詢這個主題？因為在這個過程當中，我看到這一些有政治後台的廠商如何地囂張，這個是在2019年12月的時候，您召集會議要求台糖兩個月以內補正營農型專區計畫書，這個營農型就是我們剛剛在講的農電共生，我沒有理解錯吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：對，但是營農型它有一些小區塊的，您剛才提的那個是面積比較大的。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
黃委員國昌：對嘛！所以您看一下這個會議，上面除了您以外，一個非常重要的出席者叫做什麼？台糖，對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
黃委員國昌：就是要台糖提出，所以就是在講我剛剛講的那一件事情，您想起來了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：當時就是請台糖去盤點，是不是有剛才講到種樹20年要review，因為有一些樹就是怎麼樣種都種不好，那些地…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以後來台糖決定要釋出，是不是配合國家政策？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：要看看有沒有盤出有這樣的地，如果有的話就可以提供。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
黃委員國昌：2018年，事實上在這之前張景森就已經主導了，要求台糖釋出750公頃的農地，而且還要安排廠商跟潘孟安簡報，因為最大塊的全部都在屏東，政委您看一下，當時出席的廠商有台糖、聯合再生，就是我上次跟你講的，聯合再生用張景森當後台，是怎麼在搞國家資源的啊！我把所有發生事情的時間序，全部都整理出來了，結果2019年6月14號，台糖就頒布了，配合業者辦理，把他們那一些林地全部盤點出來，全部都大面積的，特別是在哪裡？屏東嘛！所以那個時候張景森他為什麼要找你？因為你負責農電共生；他為什麼要找潘孟安？因為在屏東縣嘛！所有事情的發生一定有它的原因，但我沒有辦法接受的是什麼？我沒有辦法接受的事情是，在搞農電共生這三個巨頭，古盛煇、洪傳獻、蔡宗融，三個全部都英系的，在跟台糖開會以前，他們就已經開了會前會在圍標啊！8家業者找來，整個會議全部都他們三個在主導，他們三個是有什麼樣子的政治勢力？可以左右國家的政策，要台糖配合就配合？順從他們的意思以後，最後的結果是什麼？當地的居民、環團強烈反對，這就是我為什麼一直說，當你在發展綠電政策的時候，你不能夠被廠商綁架，你必須要各方的利害關係人取得平衡。當初張景森為什麼找潘孟安、為什麼找你，我相信這個脈絡非常非常地清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][1] |
我最後只問一個問題，有關於釋出台糖的土地，繼續搞農電共生這件事情，我聽說他們又蠢蠢欲動了，站在國發會主委的立場，你贊不贊成？你會不會放行？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，過去的原則，如果這個地它根本是不適合栽種的部分，我們就可以來利用，但是如果適合，就還是原來的來使用。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
黃委員國昌：你們在做這個決策的時候，當地居民的意見重不重要？環團的意見重不重要？屏東鄉親的意見重不重要？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：重要。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
黃委員國昌：重要嘛！不會像上次一樣，聽這幾個英系廠商的話，向台糖施壓，地就放出去了，搞得後來不可收拾啊！整個背景的脈絡我今天我已經很負責任地跟主委報告了，但我希望主委能夠站在國家的立場好好把關，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
主席：接下來我們請黃仁，黃仁，黃仁委員不在場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][1] |
我們請吳思瑤，吳思瑤，吳思瑤委員不在場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][2] |
我們請王美惠，王美惠，王美惠委員不在場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][3] |
我們請蘇清泉，蘇清泉，蘇清泉委員不在場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][4] |
我們請劉建國、劉建國，劉建國委員不在場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][5] |
我們請賴惠員，賴惠員，賴惠員委員不在現場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][6] |
我們請魯明哲，魯明哲，魯明哲委員不在場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][7] |
我們請李柏毅，李柏毅，李柏毅委員不在場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][8] |
我們請陳冠廷，陳冠廷，陳冠廷委員不在場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][9] |
我們請許智傑，許智傑，許智傑委員，有要講嗎？好，我們謝謝許智傑委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][10] |
我們請林德福，林德福，林德福委員不在現場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][11] |
我們請顏寬恒，顏寬恒，顏寬恒委員不在現場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][12] |
我們請謝衣鳯，謝衣鳯，謝衣鳯委員不在現場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][13] |
我們請許宇甄，許宇甄，許宇甄委員不在現場。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][14] |
報告委員會，我們登記發言的委員，除了不在現場之外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][15] |
我們有委員林岱樺、魯明哲、黃仁、黃健豪、楊瓊瓔、黃建賓、謝衣鳯所提的書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報；書面質詢跟未及答復的部分，請相關單位在一週之內書面答復，並副知本會。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
62 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-01 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1132301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1132301_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案（詢答及處理） |
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1132301_00001 |
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46.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
主委好 延續上一次質詢的主題我要重申一次就是要發展再生能源 要發展綠能我相信 絕大多數的國人都支持但是在這個過程當中如何跟其他的利益取得比較好的平衡而且不能有不正常的正常關係我相信這是大家都有的共識上次主委你也贊成嗎?贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
70.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
農電共生是不是你督導的?農電共生後來那個是我在當政務委員的時候那時候你當政務委員的時候是你督導的嗎?那個時候是不是有廠商在施壓政府要把台塘廣大的林地給釋出來讓他們搞重電 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
78.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
後來這個政策是不是引發了當地的居民跟環島強烈的抗議?是有不同的聲音,對。後來台塘是不是把這個案子給停下來了?是停下來,沒有錯。是停下來,現在打算要繼續推動嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
100.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
119.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
因為我現在已經不歸我督導了OK 還好不歸你督導你終於從那個泥沼裡面給爬出來了為什麼我今天要質詢這個主題因為在這個過程當中我看到這一些有政治後台的廠商如虎的囂張 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
121.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
149.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個是在2019年12月的時候您召集會議要求台糖兩個月以內補正營農型專區計畫書這個營農型就是我們剛剛在講的農電共生我沒有理解錯吧對 但是營農型它有一些小區塊的您剛才提的那個是大面積比較大所以您看一下這個會議上面除了您以外一個非常重要出席的叫做什麼 台糖 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
151.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
174.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
對啦 就是要台塘提啊所以就是在講我剛剛講的那一件事情啊你想起來了嗎就是當時來講就是請台塘去盤點是不是有剛才講就是20年因為種樹20年要renew嘛啊有一些樹就是怎麼樣種都種不好所以後來台塘決定要釋出是不是配合國家政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
204.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
2018年事實上在這之前張景生就已經主導了要求台塘釋出750公頃的農地而且還要安排廠商跟潘孟安簡報因為最大塊的全部都在屏東嘛來政委您看一下當時出席的廠商當時出席的廠商台塘嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
206.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
221.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
聯合再生嘛就是我上次跟你講的嘛聯合再生用張景生當後台是怎麼在搞國家資源的啊我把所有發生事情的時間序啊全部都整理出來了結果2019年6月14號台台就頒布啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
226.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
250.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
配合業者辦理把他們的那些林地全部盤點出來全部都大面積的特別是在哪裡?屏東嘛所以那個時候張景生他為什麼要找你?因為你負責農電工生嘛他為什麼要找潘孟安?因為在屏東縣嘛所有事情的發生一定有他的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
251.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
269.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但我沒有辦法接受的是什麼我沒有辦法接受的事情是在搞農電共生這三個巨頭古聖輝洪傳憲蔡中榮三個全部都陰系的三個全部都陰系的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
271.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
297.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
在跟台堂開會以前他們就已經開了會前會在圍標阿八家業者找來整個會議全部都他的三個什麼在主導他們三個是有什麼樣子的政治勢力阿可以左右國家的政策要台堂配合就配合就順從他們的意思以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
298.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
325.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
最後的結果是什麼當地的居民環團強烈反對這就是我為什麼一直說當你在發展綠電政策的時候你不能夠被廠商綁架你必須要各方的利害關係人取得平衡當初張景生為什麼找潘孟安為什麼找你 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
327.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
347.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我相信這個脈絡非常非常的清楚我最後只問一個問題我最後只問一個問題就有關於釋出台塘的土地繼續搞農電共生這件事情我聽說他們又蠢蠢欲動了您站在國發會主委的立場你贊不贊成你會不會放心 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
348.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
372.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
報告委員就是說過去的原則還是說如果這個地它根本是不適合栽種的部分那我們就可以來利用但是如果適合那就是還是原來來使用你們在做這個決策的時候當地居民的意見重不重要環團的意見重不重要屏東鄉親的意見重不重要重要重要嘛不會像上次一樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
374.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
393.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
聽這幾個英系廠商的話像台塘施壓地就放出去了搞得後來不可收拾阿整個背景的脈絡我今天已經很負責任了跟主委報告但我希望 但我希望主委你能夠站在國家的立場好好把關可以嗎好 謝謝 |