| IVOD_ID |
149256 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149256 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-36-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-04T11:56:39+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-04T12:07:29+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd7c50cb2009d5db7f2dd7be9832461c05f8ba9b0039caa7a6ac97dd6a17630d805ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
傅崐萁 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:56:39 - 12:07:29 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
761 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
傅委員崐萁：（11時56分）主席、秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
傅委員崐萁：今天要就教秘書長。實在是比較抱歉，立法院的一些家醜，讓你們看到，因為這個委員會這樣的設置是很離譜的，這個是矮化整個國會，不能這樣辦。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][1] |
第一個，對於人權法案的部分，我們有提出了3案，基本上這3案是經由憲法法庭判決以後，我們所有包括在刑事訴訟法要做部分修正條文。司法院所提出來的，我們都敬表尊重。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][2] |
另外就是第4案的部分，我想在這裡請我們秘書長先看一下，對於台灣公民人權聯盟委託山水民意調查所做的相關資料，我想不分黨派都提到這個問題。來，我們先看一下，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[2][3] |
第1題，司法改革的滿意度。雖然司法院現在真的成績相當好了，滿意度已經到三成了，30.4%，雖然不滿意有四成八，不過以前從不滿意度六、七成，現在降到四成八，司法還是有在進步啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[2][4] |
再過來，我們對法官的滿意度，可以看一下。現在不滿意度是52.2%，滿意度是32.7%，這個可能跟司法院就有關係了。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][5] |
再過來，臺灣的司法是否公正，這個就很嚴重了，不公正的比例占55%，不過公正的比例有35%。我想一方面我們的司法公信力確實有逐步在提升，但是民眾對司法的不信任還是高達五成五、五成六，我想司法院還要再加一把勁。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][6] |
司法不公正的原因也可以看一下，包括法官亂判35.3%、司法對有權有勢的人有利占20.8%、政治力介入占16.5%等等，大概前面主要3項是在這個部分。所以在這裡請我們司法院的各位同仁可能要瞭解，這是全民的觀感，有高達將近35加20.8是55.8，再加16點多，七成多的人有疑慮。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][7] |
再看檢察官是否有受到政治力的影響，看到這個成績，真的不管是法務部還是司法院，可能要嚴格正視這個問題，認為政治力介入檢察官辦案「一定會」受到影響的有38.1%；「可能會」的有46.6%，這加起來有將近八成五，所以在這個部分，為什麼我們的司法越改，民眾的疑慮越高？在這個區塊的部分，是不是請本委員會召委，下次有機會的話，我們還是就司改的部分安排司法院來做報告？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：沒有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
傅委員崐萁：秘書長，希望下次我們再來的時候，你們有一些比較具體、比較亮麗的作為讓我們瞭解，我們會支持，但是要看到你們能夠有具體的作法，不然這個數字永遠是這樣的遙不可及，人民跟司法越來越遙遠，即便是有國民法官，但國民法官本身就對司法沒有信心，他們怎麼會願意來呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][1] |
另外，在這裡本席要對司法院所提出組織法第四項，要增加司法事務官還有檢察官助理的這個部分，可能上一屆的委員有表達了相當多的意見，但是這一屆的委員可能在看法上不見得趨於一致，光就這一點，你組改的部分、組織法要修正的部分，我們一定要做充分的溝通。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][2] |
我在這裡講一個很簡單的數字，剛剛翁曉玲委員也有提到，現在我們檢察事務官到去年的缺額還有230幾人，為什麼還要增加檢察官助理？我們的書記官目前的缺額還有140人，是我們的司法界要讓大家留在原有單位？在法界是不是大家開始興趣缺缺？是不是跟這些數字都有關係？雞生蛋、蛋生雞，這是社會集體的一個氛圍，請秘書長能夠提出相關應對的事項。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][3] |
不過，在這裡要特別提醒，我們檢察事務官有這麼高的缺額都沒有補，現在還來要600個員額，這是讓我們非常好奇的一件事情，當然剛剛我們謝龍介委員也提到相關的疑問，是不是法務部在要求增加檢察官助理的時候，我們司法院也希望增加司法事務官？基本上要增加這些員額，大原則上對於臺灣的司法品質能有提升，本席都不反對，但我要特別強調的是，司法院法官的職權為何？他是負責聽訟，由檢辯雙方根據所掌握的證據、要調查的證據，來做明確的攻防，法官是以聽訟為主，現在不管是增加了新的犯罪型態，抑或者是很多在過去六法全書裡沒有看到的型態，現在都出來了。秘書長，我們是可以讓法官做集體的培訓，但不是要去增加司法事務官，原因是什麼？我們法官是以聽訟為主，不是在協助調查，現在這會變成我們的法官成為了檢察官助理，這樣我們檢察官的品質會更差，如果都由法院來協助檢察官來做證據的補正，所有的法官成為了檢察官助理，那我們的司法品質要如何提升？如果不是胡亂起訴，為什麼在法院還要由法官、還要增加司法事務官，來幫檢察官蒐證？這在我們司法界是一件非常荒唐的事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][4] |
再來，關於檢察官助理，光檢察官的檢察事務官就有這麼高的缺額沒補，現在還要增加檢察官助理，其實這個部分本席也有跟秘書長討論過，我們再強調一次，臺灣的起訴是不是過分浮濫，還有太多的因素介入？為什麼我們檢察官今天指揮刑事警察局、指揮調查局、指揮廉政署，這些都是很專業的單位，指揮這麼多單位來協助檢察官辦案，他的移送書、他的報告書難道都還會有問題嗎？都還要檢察官來募集這麼多的檢察事務官或是檢察官助理，再來重新整理資料、重新來辦案嗎？這樣子的話，是不是調查局移送的資料並不完整，還是報告寫得不周詳，還是刑事警察局目前素質還沒有趕上，非要檢察官自己來調整整體的辦案品質？本席很好奇，如果不是這樣的話，應該在法院跟檢察官的部分，對於所謂新生的一些犯罪型態，我們可以來上課，來做專業的提升；在辦案單位，也可以做專業的提升，但本席認為，不管是司法事務官也好，還是檢察官助理也好，應該要正本清源，還是要回到調查單位，調查單位就包括了刑事警察局，還有包括警政署，還有包括廉政署，還有包括法務部調查局，這些員額若不夠、要增加，本席強烈支持；專業不夠、要怎麼樣去培訓，我們也支持，但不要變成是檢察官跟法官來做一個調查的助理，檢察官應該是指揮辦案，指揮下屬這些單位在辦案完成之後，做一個完整的起訴，提升我們的司法品質，所以本席的建議是，應該要把檢察事務官先補齊以後，法定員額先補齊以後，再來考慮檢察官助理的問題，可能會更周詳也更有正當性。謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
主席：謝謝傅崐萁總召。我們先休息5分鐘，就準時5分鐘，回來再繼續。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][1] |
休息（12時7分） |
| gazette.blocks[6][2] |
繼續開會（12時12分） |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
主席（謝委員龍介代）：接下來請吳宗憲委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
384 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-36-2 |
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吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
翁曉玲 |
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黃國昌 |
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沈發惠 |
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鍾佳濱 |
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柯建銘 |
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羅智強 |
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莊瑞雄 |
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林思銘 |
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吳思瑤 |
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傅崐萁 |
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謝龍介 |
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陳俊宇 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
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黃珊珊 |
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329 |
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2024-03-04 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄 |
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邀請司法院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席秘書長委員好今天要救救秘書長這個實在是比較抱歉這是立法院的一些家醜讓你們看到因為這個委員會這樣的設置是很離譜的所以這個是矮化整個國會不能這樣辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
50.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
第一個對於這個人權法案的部分這個我們有提出了三案基本上這三案是藉由憲法法庭判決以後我們所有包括在刑事訴訟法要做部分修正條文這個司法院所提出來的我們都敬表尊重那另外就是第4案的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
52.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
司法改革滿一度 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
76.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
101.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
雖然司法院現在真的成績相當好了滿意度已經到三成了30.04雖然不滿意有四成八不過以前從不滿意度六七成現在降到四成八司法還是有在進步啦再來我們對法官的滿意度可以看一下現在不滿意度是52.2% |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
104.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
129.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
滿意度是32.7這個可能跟司法院就有關係跟司法院有關係再過來臺灣的司法是否公正這個就很嚴重了這個不公正的比例佔55%不過公正的比例有35%我想一方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
131.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
156.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們的司法公信力確實有逐步在提升但是民眾對司法的不信任還是高達5乘5、5乘6這我想司法院還要再加一把勁那司法不公正的原因也可以看一下包括法官亂判35.3司法對有權有勢的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
157.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
179.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
有力20.8%政治力介入16.5%等等等等大概前面主要三項是在這個部分所以呢在這裡請我們司法院的各位同仁可能要了解這是全民的觀感有高達這個將近 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
183.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
186.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
在看檢察官是否有受到政治力的影響這個是這個這個成績啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
207.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
229.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
真的我們不管是法務部還是司法院可能要嚴格正視這個問題認為一定會政治力一定介入檢察官而受到影響有38.1可能會有46.6所以這加起來是8成將近8成5 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
232.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
241.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以在這個部分為什麼我們的司法越改民眾的疑慮越高在這個區塊的部分是不是請下一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
244.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
269.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
本委員會招委下次有機會我們還是要排司法院就這個司改的部分來做報告所以希望秘書長下次我們再來的時候有一些比較具體、比較亮麗的作為讓我們了解我們支持但是要看到我們能夠有具體的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
270.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
296.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
不然這個數字永遠是這樣子遙不可及人民跟司法越來越遙遠即便是有國民法官但國民法官本身就對司法沒有信心他們怎麼會願意來呢那另外在這裡本席要對司法院所提出組織法第4項的部分要增加司法事務官還有檢察官助理的這個部分可能上一屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
298.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
319.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
333.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我在這裡講一個很簡單的一個數字剛剛翁小林委員也有提到現在我們檢查事務官到去年的缺額還有230幾人那為什麼還要增加檢察官助理 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
335.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
362.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那我們的書記官目前缺有還有140人是我們的司法界讓大家要留在這個原有單位在法界是不是大家開始興趣缺缺是不是跟這些數字都有關係雞生蛋蛋生雞這社會的一個集體的一個氛圍請這個秘書長能夠提出相關的應對的事情不過在這裡特別提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
364.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
386.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們檢察事務官有這麼高的缺額都沒有補那現在還要來要600個元額這是我們非常好奇的一件事情那當然剛剛我們新隆界委員也提到相關的疑問是不是檢察官在法務部在要求增加檢察官助理的時候我們司法院也希望增加司法事務官 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
388.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
415.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
基本上要增加這些原額大原則對於台灣的司法品質有提升本席都不反對但我要特別強調的是司法院法官的職權違和他是負責聽訟由簡便雙方根據所掌握的證據要調查的證據來做明確的攻防法官是以聽訟為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
418.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
445.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
現在不管是增加了現在新的犯罪形態亦或者是這個很多在過去的六法全書你沒有看到的東西現在出來了秘書長我們可以讓法官做集體的培訓但是不是增加司法事務官原因是什麼我們法官是聽眾為主不是協助調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
447.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
448.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
若非胡亂起訴,為何在法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
475.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
501.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
還要由法官增加司法事務官幫檢察官來收證這是在我們司法界是非常荒唐的一件事情再過來檢察官助理光檢察官的檢察事務官有這麼高的缺額沒補現在還要增加檢察官助理其實本席這個也大概跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
504.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
531.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
秘書長有討論過我們再強調一次臺灣的起訴是不是過分腐爛還有太多的因素介入為什麼我們檢察官今天指揮刑事警察局指揮調查局指揮廉政署這都是很專業的單位指揮這麼多的單位來協助檢察官辦案他的移送書他的報告書 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
533.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
561.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
難道都還有問題嗎還要檢察官來募集這麼多的檢察事務官或是檢察官助理再來重新整理資料重新來辦案這樣子的話是不是調查局移送的資料並不完整還是報告寫得不周詳還是刑事警察局目前素質還沒有趕上非到檢察官自己啊來調整整體的辦案品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
564.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
592.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
本席很好奇如果並不是這樣的話應該在法院跟檢察官的部分對於所謂新生的一些犯罪形態我們可以來上課做專業的提升但是在辦案單位也可以做專業的提升但是本席認為不管是司法事務官也好還是檢察官助理也好應該要正本清源還是要回到調查單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
593.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
620.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
調查單位就包括行事警察局還有包括警政署還有包括聯政署還有包括法務部調查局這些員額不夠要增加本席強烈支持專業不夠要怎麼樣去培訓我們也支持但是不要變成檢察官跟法官來做一個調查的助理檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
620.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
621.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
法定人數不足 |