| IVOD_ID |
149085 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149085 |
| 日期 |
2024-01-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
臨時會院會-10-8-1-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
10 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
8 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.臨時會會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-01-09T11:46:23+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-01-09T12:02:06+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7594f10b9bbee68978fa76a61839451b826b98f121effac12be4303bcf228b50b0c4806fe5b20b735ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳斯懷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:46:23 - 12:02:06 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-01-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議（事由：行政院院長提出「是否公布高端合約？是否圖利廠商及危害全民健康權益？」等相關事宜專案報告並備質詢） |
| gazette.lineno |
1103 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
吳委員斯懷：（11時46分）謝謝院長，有請陳建仁院長。 |
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主席：陳院長請。 |
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陳院長建仁：吳委員好。 |
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吳委員斯懷：院長好。我還是要問，剛才已經有兩位委員質詢過，高端和衛福部互相踢皮球，民眾跟媒體質疑的事，到底誰不想公開？薛部長你可以上來，但是不要回答，因為你剛才已經回答兩次，你可以上臺。你說這是高端自己公司的公布，與事實不符，媒體跟社會大眾心中自有評論，你已經回答兩次兩個委員的質詢。我要問的是，既然它不是事實，那就影響政府的威信，它是一個假訊息，或者你們最喜歡用的是一個認知作戰。請問從5月20號、5月30號公告到一年半以後，面臨縣市長選舉了，你們在111年11月3號發了個函問高端可否公布，你們跟高端之間需要用公文來來去去，沒有聯絡，沒有電話，沒有人可以接觸嗎？3號發了文，它不理你，22號再發個文，再次詢問貴公司可否公開？時隔一年半，如果它是假的，它說是主管機關不同意，如果是假的，一年半不處理，發兩個文以後，我想請問部長一件事，選舉前做這個動作，在縣市長選舉前，就是被質疑這是為了選情，為了縣市長選舉操作，那我現在問一個問題就好，你們在11月3號、11月22號發兩次文給高端，它有沒有回復？ |
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薛部長瑞元：過去那兩次，應該是兩年前了，它沒有回復。 |
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吳委員斯懷：沒有回復？政府威信何在？它是一家企業，我告訴你，我問你可以、不可以，你不行就回復我不行，是依據什麼、什麼，行就行，政府在幹什麼？這是政府的威信耶！院長，我們政府管不了一個企業嗎？管不了一個公司嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想委員你問得相當好，我再重複一次，實際上雙方簽訂契約的時候，如果有簽訂保密條款之後，我們雙方都應該要互相尊重…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
吳委員斯懷：院長，你已經回答一個早上了，保密條款、保密條款，這些我沒有意見，我問的是，我是政府，你不過是一家企業，我問你可不可以？你要回復我嘛！理都不理你！政府威信何在？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][1] |
好，我們再看，我認為媒體質疑、很多民眾質疑，這是一個為了縣市長選舉的選舉操作，當人家質疑你們的時候，我們政府說我有發文給他，是他沒有回答我。你們對他這家公司如此的寬容，哪一家上市上櫃公司敢這樣子對政府？我不相信！不然金管會主委舉個例子給我聽，有哪一家公司敢在你發文兩次之後理都不理你？查一下就有，這個不用你說、不用我說、不用回答，查就知道了嘛！為什麼獨厚高端？這是民眾、媒體的質疑。監察院接著調查報告出來，時隔兩年了，這個報告出來以後，請問衛福部做了什麼事？ |
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薛部長瑞元：哪一個方面？我們做很多事。 |
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吳委員斯懷：你做了很多事，我們不知道，我們是立法委員，媒體不知道、社會大眾不知道，你做了什麼事？ |
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薛部長瑞元：所以委員在問的是哪一方面？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
吳委員斯懷：哪一方面？就是講這個啊！你資訊不公開啊！監察院的報告你沒看過嗎？看過沒有嘛？ |
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薛部長瑞元：這個資訊不公開的部分就是合約的限制。 |
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吳委員斯懷：你又在談保密條款。 |
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薛部長瑞元：這個沒有錯，因為政府…… |
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吳委員斯懷：好，我們不要扯。 |
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薛部長瑞元：政府跟一個民間的企業簽了合約，難道政府說我要用強力的公權力來違約嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
吳委員斯懷：部長，你等一下，你不要講話，我告訴你，我不要再跟你談保密條款。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][1] |
接下來，我在衛環委員會，第一、第二會期我在那裡，我對這個事情非常清楚，我們一再的要求，你們那時候口風緊得不得了，說什麼都是不可以、不可以，要怎麼樣、怎麼樣。好，到現在了，110年5月30號高端這個出來了，我們還在追，照樣不理我們。到了一年半以後你們發兩個文，縣市長選舉了，還剩幾天了，請它是否可以公開？它不理你！我現在才知道，發兩個文的結論是它沒有回復你，這是政府的威信嗎？然後到現在，我在衛環委員會看過你們提供的資料，那時候你還沒當部長，塗黑的將近三分之二，看了跟沒看一樣，這是你們當初的心態跟口風。現在要…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個保密條約是簽5年…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
吳委員斯懷：我們不談，陳院長，賴清德總統候選人說應該要公開了，整個態度丕變，我中間再問一個重要的問題，就是政府權責的問題，你這個約裡面到底有沒有除外條款？部長，你知不知道？ |
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薛部長瑞元：除外條款指的是說什麼時候是可以揭露的？ |
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吳委員斯懷：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
薛部長瑞元：像是司法機關在調查的時候，我們是可以揭露，但是它有一些條件、一些程序要進行。 |
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吳委員斯懷：有沒有除外條款？我問，有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
薛部長瑞元：有！ |
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吳委員斯懷：有！那今天這個狀況，全民都在質疑、社會大眾質疑、媒體質疑，在野黨所有的委員都在質疑有沒有弊案、有沒有後面等一下我要問的錄音檔的問題，那麼它就是符合除外條款…… |
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薛部長瑞元：沒有。 |
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吳委員斯懷：等一下，我沒叫你回答，這個案子是有可能，我沒有說一定，有可能有重大弊案，除外條款就生效，法務部長可以回答這個問題，這是法律嘛！什麼叫除外條款？萬一我政府跟你簽的約有可能，我沒有說一定，有可能會產生重大舞弊案，除外條款就要生效。法務部長，是不是這樣子？除外條款的定義是不是這樣子？ |
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蔡部長清祥：如果有例外的情形，當然就可以遵照辦理。 |
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吳委員斯懷：對，有可能有重大舞弊案，或者其他影響人民生命安全的這種可能，除外條款就必須生效，就法律的定義是不是這樣子？ |
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蔡部長清祥：那我們要看契約，還有比照相關的規定才能瞭解。 |
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吳委員斯懷：我曉得你們的回答會這樣，但我告訴你全民的認知是這樣，有可能發生，除外條款生效，就拿出來公開嘛！現在我不跟你追這一個。 |
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陳院長建仁：這個除外條款如果要公開時，要運用它、要公開的時候，我們要預先通知。 |
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吳委員斯懷：當然，它有一定的行政程序。 |
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陳院長建仁：對。 |
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吳委員斯懷：院長，你放心…… |
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陳院長建仁：然後我們給這個預先的程序…… |
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吳委員斯懷：我在公部門四十多年，公部門執行任何事情要有一定的行政程序。 |
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陳院長建仁：對，沒有錯。 |
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吳委員斯懷：你剛才也講過，我清楚。但我問的是有沒有除外條款？薛部長說有，我就問法務部長除外條款的定義，是不是假如有這些可能發生，除外條款就應該生效，就可以引用除外條款來公開嘛，對不對？我有沒有說錯？ |
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陳院長建仁：是啊！沒有說錯，但是還是要讓對方知道、通知對方。 |
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吳委員斯懷：當然、當然，這是行政程序。 |
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陳院長建仁：對於這整個公開合約的這件事情，我們覺得如果雙方能夠達成合意，然後一起來公開，那是最好的…… |
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吳委員斯懷：我知道到現在，院長…… |
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陳院長建仁：但是如果沒有，我們這個除外條款就可以使用。 |
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吳委員斯懷：院長，你不要耽誤我的時間，我告訴你的是，到現在為止，政府對高端一籌莫展，什麼事情都是高端說了算，我們要求發公文，它不理我，我們希望它回答，它是「我不回答，你奈何不了我」…… |
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陳院長建仁：沒有一籌莫展。 |
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吳委員斯懷：現在我們看到你一個早上的回應，除了民進黨籍委員拼命做球給你、拼命罵在野黨之外，對於其他人的質詢，你都是這種回答，所以不需要再說。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][1] |
我現在說賴清德副總統，現在的總統候選人說應該公開了，10天了，我們採取了什麼措施？你們看一下媒體的反應，柯文哲講得好笑：一年多來你身為副總統都不作聲，都沒有聲音嗎？陳琬惠委員說：高端弊案跟陳時中、賴清德不同調，英系不甩新潮流。這是他們說的，不是我說的！ |
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陳院長建仁：都不正確。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
吳委員斯懷：批民進黨高端合約大玩兩面手法，黃國昌說：英系陳時中在給新潮流賴清德難看。 |
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陳院長建仁：我不贊成這樣的講法，這是不正確的消息。 |
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吳委員斯懷：你不贊成，我沒有意見，你當然不贊成，但我告訴你，這是媒體的反應。 |
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陳院長建仁：對，是錯誤的。 |
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吳委員斯懷：是這些人說的話。但是11天了，你們到底想不想公開？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
陳院長建仁：想。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
吳委員斯懷：想公開？今天的臨時會，差一點開不成！ |
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陳院長建仁：開不成是因為簽名還沒有簽滿啊！ |
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吳委員斯懷：對，那你們想公開，有沒有可能公開？ |
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陳院長建仁：那不能夠怪行政院，我跟委員講得很清楚，我今天早上的報告也講得很清楚，賴副總統想公開，政府也想越快公開越好，但是這裡面牽涉到我們的保密條款…… |
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吳委員斯懷：又是保密條款，好…… |
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陳院長建仁：我們現在還在跟高端協商，希望他能夠早日公開…… |
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吳委員斯懷：好，你不要浪費我的時間，我時間不多了。我再問下一個問題，關於政府官員的官箴，當賴副總統一講了這個話之後，薛部長就在上班時間到競選總部去，有了這張照片，這是媒體刊的，不是我講的，它不是假新聞，是有這個事，你去幹什麼？人家說你是政府的官員，它是競選總部，政務官、不要說政務官，所有政府體系的人都應該在選舉中保持行政中立，請問法務部長對不對？這句話我有沒有說錯？ |
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蔡部長清祥：我們當然要求所有的官員都應該要中立。 |
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吳委員斯懷：行政中立，對不對？尤其身為部長，又跟這個案子有那麼密切的關係，你去幹了什麼事？ |
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薛部長瑞元：委員，我可以回答嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
吳委員斯懷：可以，你說你去做了什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
薛部長瑞元：我們是去找柯建銘總召談今天要開臨時會的事情，柯總召早上在這邊走來走去，委員是還沒有來，要不然你直接問他就知道。 |
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陳院長建仁：所以實際上是指鹿為馬。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
吳委員斯懷：這不是指鹿為馬。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
陳院長建仁：是，你跟他們…… |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
吳委員斯懷：等一下，薛部長，你跟柯總召兩個人講的話誰能證明？我們今天要取信於民，那我告訴你的是…… |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
薛部長瑞元：在場還有一位洪申翰委員，你去問他。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
吳委員斯懷：我不要去問他。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
薛部長瑞元：對啊，你又不求證！ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
吳委員斯懷：你把他們3個人叫出來…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
薛部長瑞元：你拿這種東西誣衊我…… |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
吳委員斯懷：我不是誣衊你，這不是我誣衊你，我有我的質詢權…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
薛部長瑞元：我已經解釋了啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
吳委員斯懷：我是言論保障，我的言論免責權，我告訴你…… |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
薛部長瑞元：好啦、好啦，我知道啦！我不會告你啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
陳院長建仁：言論免責權也不應該指鹿為馬。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
吳委員斯懷：我沒有說你怎麼樣啊！我只是問你去幹嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
陳院長建仁：言論免責權不應該指鹿為馬。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
吳委員斯懷：我把網路的事情告訴你，這是網路的笑話，不是我講的，政府官員去競選總部見這些重要幹部是去串證，還是湮滅…… |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
陳院長建仁：錯誤的。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
吳委員斯懷：不是，等一下，網路說的…… |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
陳院長建仁：網路錯了、網路錯了。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
吳委員斯懷：好，網路錯了，沒關係。薛部長，你必須用事實去證明你沒有做這些事。 |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
薛部長瑞元：有人作夢，他有作夢的權利，我沒有解夢的義務。 |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
吳委員斯懷：但是你有權利，也有義務、有責任，你要去證明你沒有做這些事。 |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
陳院長建仁：他剛才已經講得很清楚，因為當時柯總召是在競選總部，這一件事…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
薛部長瑞元：在他辦公室。 |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
陳院長建仁：在他辦公室，所以這一件事情……因為貴黨說要開臨時會，這是很緊急的事情…… |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
吳委員斯懷：這個是羅生門…… |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以大家趕快去那裡討論嘛…… |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
吳委員斯懷：你說你的，我們說我們的，信者恆信，不信者恆不信。 |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
薛部長瑞元：委員要這樣子嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
吳委員斯懷：我沒有，我沒有這樣子。 |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
薛部長瑞元：把這種謠言這樣子傳是對的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
吳委員斯懷：我沒有這樣講，我沒有講，我說這是網路說的。 |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
陳院長建仁：網路錯誤嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
吳委員斯懷：我也沒有說你的人格有問題，我都沒有說。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，網路是錯的，這是指鹿為馬的事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
吳委員斯懷：院長，你說網路錯的，我沒有意見，我沒有意見…… |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
陳院長建仁：當時談的就是貴院要開臨時會這件事情…… |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
吳委員斯懷：最後的時間我問一件事…… |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
陳院長建仁：然後在那邊談，大概就是這樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
吳委員斯懷：在社環委員會第1、第2會期的時候，我們提了很多案，針對高端的問題、針對人民健康的問題、針對有沒有圖利的問題，我們提了10個案統統被民進黨封殺。第一個，我們要1個月內擴大採購，WHO認證的疫苗4,000萬劑提案被封殺，我們人數表決不過，公開3＋11完整的會議紀錄，沒有公開…… |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
陳院長建仁：WHO，委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
吳委員斯懷：等一下，讓我講完嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
陳院長建仁：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
吳委員斯懷：第三個，國產高端疫苗的緊急使用授權審查，我們要求、我們有提案應該比照美國FDA全程直播公開，也被封殺，這就是民進黨執政黨的態度，我們讓全民來檢查、讓媒體來看，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員要世界衛生組織的疫苗進來，包括中國的疫苗，而中國的疫苗是沒有效果的…… |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
吳委員斯懷：媒體跟…… |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個案件是不可行的，而且會傷害國人健康。 |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
吳委員斯懷：謝謝，請回。 |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
主席：謝謝吳委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[116][1] |
報告院會，上午質詢到此為止，下午2時30分繼續專案報告之質詢，現在休息。 |
| gazette.blocks[116][2] |
休息（12時2分） |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
86 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
臨時會院會-10-8-1-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
游錫堃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
邱顯智 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱臣遠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
曾銘宗 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
邱泰源 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
蔡適應 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
吳斯懷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
游毓蘭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
李德維 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
吳玉琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
林為洲 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-01-09 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1130301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1130301_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1130301_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
施政質詢
行政院院長提出「是否公布高端合約？是否圖利廠商及危害全民健康權益？」等相關事宜專案報
告並備質詢─ 詢答完畢─ |
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928.52721875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
13.55 |
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24.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
高端和衛福部互相踢皮球民眾跟媒體質疑的是到底誰不想公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
44.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
72.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
那麼薛部長你可以上來但是不要回答因為你剛才已經回答兩次你可以上台你說這是高端自己公司的公布與事實不符那麼媒體跟社會大眾心中自有評論你已經回答兩次兩個委員的質詢我要問的是既然它不是事實那就影響政府的威信 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
73.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
102.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
他是一個假訊息或者你們最喜歡用的是一個認知作戰那請問從5月20號5月30號公告到一年半以後面臨縣市長選舉了你們在111年的11月3號發了個函問他可否公布 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
104.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
114.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
你們跟高端之間需要用公文來來去去沒有聯絡沒有電話沒有人可以接觸嗎3號發了文他不理你 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
117.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
140.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
22號再發個文說再次詢問你們貴公司可否公開時隔一年半如果他是假的他說的是主管機關不同意如果是假的一年半不處理發兩個文以後我想請問部長一件事選舉前做這個動作縣市長選舉前 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
143.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
158.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
就是被質疑這是為了選情為了縣市長選舉操作那我現在問一個問題就好了你們在11月3號11月20號發兩次文給高端他有沒有回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
167.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
179.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
政府威信何在他一家企業我告訴你我問你可以不可以你不行你回覆我不行依據什麼什麼行就行政府在幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
208.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這是政府的威信來 院長我們政府管不了一個企業嗎管不了一個公司嗎我想 委員你問得相當好我再重複一次實際上雙方簽訂契約的時候如果有簽訂了這一個保密的條款的時候那我們雙方都應該要來互相尊重你已經回答一個早上了保密條例 保密條款這些我沒有意見我問的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
209.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
232.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我是政府你不過是一家企業我問你可不可以你要回覆我嗎你都不理你政府威信何在好我們再看我認為媒體質疑很多民眾質疑這是一個為了縣市長選舉的選舉操作當人家質疑你們的時候我們政府說我有發文給他是他沒有回答我 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
233.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
233.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
監察院 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
262.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
290.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
接著教堂報告出來在時隔兩年了這個報告出來以後請問衛福部做了什麼事哪一個方面我們做很多事你做了很多事我們不知道我們是立法委員媒體不知道社會大眾不知道你做了什麼事所以委員在問的是哪一方面哪一方面就是講這個資訊不公開啊監察院的報告你沒看過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
294.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
317.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個資訊不公開的部分的話就是合約的限制你又在談保密條款這個沒有錯因為政府跟一個民間的企業去簽了合約難道政府說我要用強力的公權力來違約嗎部長你等一下你不要講話我告訴你我不要再跟你談保密條款我們摘下來我在未還委員會第一第二會期我在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
318.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
342.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我對這個事情非常清楚我們一再的要求你們那時候口風緊得不得了說什麼都是不可以不可以要怎麼樣怎麼樣好 到現在了110年5月30號高端這個出來了我們還在追照樣不理我們到了一年半以後你們發兩個文縣市長選舉了還剩幾天了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
347.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
374.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
請他是否可以公開他不理你我現在才知道發兩個結論是他沒回覆你這是政府的威信嗎然後到現在我在吳斯懷委員會看過你們提供的資料那時候你還沒當部長塗黑的將近三分之二看的跟沒看一樣這是你們當初的心態 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
376.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
383.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
政府權責的問題你這個約裏面到底有沒有除外條款部長你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
406.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
427.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
除外條款指的是說什麼時候是可以揭露的嗎對在這一個好像是司法機關在調查的時候我們是可以揭露但是他有一些條件 有沒有除外條款我問有沒有有有那今天這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
430.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
454.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
全民都在質疑社會大眾之一媒體之一在野黨所有的委員都在質疑有沒有弊案有沒有後面還有等下我問的錄音檔的問題那麼他就是符合除外條款沒有這個案子再等一下我沒叫你回答是有可能我沒有說一定有可能有重大弊案 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
455 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
479.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
除外條款就生效法務部長可以回答這問題這是法律嘛什麼叫除外條款萬一我政府給你簽的約有可能我沒有說一定啊有可能會產生重大舞弊案除外條款就要生效法務部長是不是這樣子除外條款的定義是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
480.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
496.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果有例外的情形當然就可以來遵照辦理有可能有五重大五必要或者其他影響人民生命安全的這種可能就除外條款就必須生效就法律的定義是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
497.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
522.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那我們要看契約還有來比照相關的規定我跟你們的回答會這樣那我告訴你全民的認識是這樣有可能發生除外條款生效就拿出來公開嘛現在我不跟你追這個除外條款如果要公開的時候要應用它要公開的時候我們要預先要預先通知當然它有一定的行政程序院長你放心我在公部門40多年 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
526.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
549.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
公布門執行任何事情要有一定的行政程序你剛才也講過我清楚但是我自己問的是有沒有除外條款薛部長說有我就問法務部長除外條款的定義是不是假如有這些可能發生除外條款就應該生效就可以引用除外條款來公開對不對我有沒有說錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
551.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
579.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沒有錯錯但是還是要讓要有一個讓對方通知對方當然當然這是行政程序但是在我們整個對於這個公開的合約的這件事情我們是覺得說如果能夠雙方能夠達成合意然後一起來公開我知道到現在但是如果沒有我們這個局外條款就可以使用我告訴你的是到現在為止是政府對高端一籌莫展 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
579.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
580.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
現在的總統候選人說應該公開了10天了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
609.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
630.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們採取了什麼措施你們看一下這個媒體的反應柯文哲講的好笑一年多你身為副總統都不作聲都沒有聲音嗎陳晚會委員說高端弊案跟陳時中耐心的不同調陰系不甩新潮流這是他們說的不是我說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
632.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
644.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
拒民進黨高端合約大完兩面手法黃國昌說應系陳時中在給新潮流耐心的難看我不贊成這樣的講法這是不正確的消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
644.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
673.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你不贊成我沒有意見你當然不贊成但是這是我告訴你這是媒體的反應這些人說的話但是11天了你們到底想不想公開想公開今天開臨時會差一點開不成開不成是因為簽名還沒有簽滿你們想公開我跟委員講得很清楚我今天早上的報告講這個賴副總統想公開政府也 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
674.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
675.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
當這個賴副總統一講了這個話之後 薛部長 你在上班時間到競選總部去 有這張照片 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
704.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
722.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這是媒體看的,不是我講的啊,它不是假新聞啊,事有這個事,你去看什麼,人家就說你是政府的官員,他是競選總部政務官,不要說政務官了,所有政府體系的人都應該在選舉中保持行政中立,法務部長對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
723.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
731.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們是去找柯建銘總召談今天要開臨時會的事件柯總召早上在這邊走來走去委員其實是沒有來要不然你直接問他就知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
751.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
779.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以實際上這個指鹿為馬不是指鹿為馬等一下 薛部長你跟柯總召兩個人講的話誰能證明我們今天要取信於民嘛那我告訴你的是在場還有一位洪森漢委員你去問他我不要去問他你把這三個人叫出來你把這種東西污衊我我不是污衊你 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
780.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
784.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我把網路的事情告訴你網路的笑話不是我講的說說這個政府官員去競選總部見這些重要幹部是去篡政 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
806.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
826.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
還是湮滅 錯誤的沒有 等一下網路說的網路錯了網路錯了網路錯 網路錯沒關係 薛部長你必須用事實去證明你沒有做這些事有人做夢 他有做夢的權利我沒有解夢的義務好 但是你有權利也有義務有責任證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
829.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
829.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
吳斯懷議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
843.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
849.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
貴黨說要開臨時會,這是很緊急的事情所以大家趕快去那裡討論嘛我沒有這樣講,我沒有講,我這是網路說的我也沒有說你的人格有問題,我都沒有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
863.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
865.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們在未還委員會的時候第一第二會期我們提了很多案針對高端的問題針對人民健康的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
886.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
900.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
針對有沒有圖利的問題我們提了10個案通通被民進黨封殺第一個我們要一個月內擴大採購WHO認證的疫苗4000萬劑提案被封殺我們人數表決不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
901.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
902.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
委員要世界維生 |