iVOD / 17656
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完整會議 @ 第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:04,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:04,000 | 00:00:08,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:08,000 | 00:00:12,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:12,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:30,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:32,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:32,000 | 00:00:35,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:39,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 我 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 我只想說,我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:02,000 | 00:01:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:03,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:05,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:07,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:12,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:27,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:31,000 | 00:01:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:32,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:37,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:43,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:45,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:47,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:26,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:34,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:37,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:13,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:44,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:49,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:51,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:03,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:11,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:27,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:31,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:33,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:17,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:05:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:05:59,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:11,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:15,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:49,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:49,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:51,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:57,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:23,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:31,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:33,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:39,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:45,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:55,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:08:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:57,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:11,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:15,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:19,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:25,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:27,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:29,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:31,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:33,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:37,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:45,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:48,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:53,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:09:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:58,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:03,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:05,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:07,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:09,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:19,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:21,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:23,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:28,000 | 00:10:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:29,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:31,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:33,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:34,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:36,000 | 00:10:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:37,000 | 00:10:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:38,000 | 00:10:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:39,000 | 00:10:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:40,000 | 00:10:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:41,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:43,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:46,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:48,000 | 00:10:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:49,000 | 00:10:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:50,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:52,000 | 00:10:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:53,000 | 00:10:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:54,000 | 00:10:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:55,000 | 00:10:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:00,000 | 00:11:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:01,000 | 00:11:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:02,000 | 00:11:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:03,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:06,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:07,000 | 00:11:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:08,000 | 00:11:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:10,000 | 00:11:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:11,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:13,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:15,000 | 00:11:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:16,000 | 00:11:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:17,000 | 00:11:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:18,000 | 00:11:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:19,000 | 00:11:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:20,000 | 00:11:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:21,000 | 00:11:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:22,000 | 00:11:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:23,000 | 00:11:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:24,000 | 00:11:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:25,000 | 00:11:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:26,000 | 00:11:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:27,000 | 00:11:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:28,000 | 00:11:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:29,000 | 00:11:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:30,000 | 00:11:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:31,000 | 00:11:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:32,000 | 00:11:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:33,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:35,000 | 00:11:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:36,000 | 00:11:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:37,000 | 00:11:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:38,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:40,000 | 00:11:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:41,000 | 00:11:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:42,000 | 00:11:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:43,000 | 00:11:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:44,000 | 00:11:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:45,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:47,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:49,000 | 00:11:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:50,000 | 00:11:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:51,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:52,000 | 00:11:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:53,000 | 00:11:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:54,000 | 00:11:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:55,000 | 00:11:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:56,000 | 00:11:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:57,000 | 00:11:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:58,000 | 00:11:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:11:59,000 | 00:12:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:00,000 | 00:12:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:01,000 | 00:12:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:03,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:05,000 | 00:12:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:06,000 | 00:12:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:07,000 | 00:12:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:08,000 | 00:12:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:09,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:11,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:13,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:15,000 | 00:12:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:16,000 | 00:12:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:17,000 | 00:12:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:18,000 | 00:12:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:19,000 | 00:12:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:20,000 | 00:12:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:21,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:23,000 | 00:12:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:24,000 | 00:12:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:25,000 | 00:12:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:26,000 | 00:12:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:27,000 | 00:12:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:28,000 | 00:12:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:29,000 | 00:12:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:30,000 | 00:12:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:31,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:33,000 | 00:12:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:34,000 | 00:12:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:35,000 | 00:12:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:36,000 | 00:12:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:37,000 | 00:12:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:38,000 | 00:12:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:39,000 | 00:12:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:40,000 | 00:12:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:41,000 | 00:12:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:42,000 | 00:12:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:43,000 | 00:12:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:44,000 | 00:12:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:45,000 | 00:12:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:46,000 | 00:12:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:47,000 | 00:12:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:48,000 | 00:12:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:49,000 | 00:12:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:50,000 | 00:12:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:51,000 | 00:12:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:52,000 | 00:12:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:53,000 | 00:12:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:54,000 | 00:12:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:55,000 | 00:12:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:56,000 | 00:12:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:57,000 | 00:12:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:58,000 | 00:12:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:12:59,000 | 00:13:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:00,000 | 00:13:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:01,000 | 00:13:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:02,000 | 00:13:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:03,000 | 00:13:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:04,000 | 00:13:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:05,000 | 00:13:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:06,000 | 00:13:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:07,000 | 00:13:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:08,000 | 00:13:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:09,000 | 00:13:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:10,000 | 00:13:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:11,000 | 00:13:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:12,000 | 00:13:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:13,000 | 00:13:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:14,000 | 00:13:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:15,000 | 00:13:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:46,000 | 00:13:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:47,000 | 00:13:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:48,000 | 00:13:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:49,000 | 00:13:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:50,000 | 00:13:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:51,000 | 00:13:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:52,000 | 00:13:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:53,000 | 00:13:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:54,000 | 00:13:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:55,000 | 00:13:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:56,000 | 00:13:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:57,000 | 00:13:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:58,000 | 00:13:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:13:59,000 | 00:14:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:00,000 | 00:14:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:01,000 | 00:14:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:02,000 | 00:14:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:03,000 | 00:14:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:04,000 | 00:14:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:05,000 | 00:14:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:06,000 | 00:14:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:07,000 | 00:14:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:08,000 | 00:14:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:09,000 | 00:14:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:10,000 | 00:14:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:11,000 | 00:14:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:12,000 | 00:14:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:13,000 | 00:14:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:14,000 | 00:14:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:15,000 | 00:14:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:16,000 | 00:14:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:17,000 | 00:14:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:18,000 | 00:14:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:19,000 | 00:14:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:20,000 | 00:14:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:21,000 | 00:14:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:22,000 | 00:14:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:23,000 | 00:14:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:24,000 | 00:14:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:25,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:27,000 | 00:14:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:28,000 | 00:14:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:29,000 | 00:14:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:30,000 | 00:14:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:31,000 | 00:14:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:32,000 | 00:14:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:33,000 | 00:14:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:34,000 | 00:14:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:35,000 | 00:14:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:36,000 | 00:14:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:37,000 | 00:14:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:38,000 | 00:14:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:39,000 | 00:14:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:40,000 | 00:14:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:41,000 | 00:14:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:42,000 | 00:14:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:43,000 | 00:14:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:44,000 | 00:14:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:45,000 | 00:14:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:46,000 | 00:14:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:47,000 | 00:14:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:48,000 | 00:14:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:49,000 | 00:14:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:50,000 | 00:14:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:51,000 | 00:14:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:52,000 | 00:14:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:53,000 | 00:14:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:54,000 | 00:14:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:55,000 | 00:14:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:56,000 | 00:14:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:57,000 | 00:14:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:58,000 | 00:14:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:14:59,000 | 00:15:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:00,000 | 00:15:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:01,000 | 00:15:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:02,000 | 00:15:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:03,000 | 00:15:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:04,000 | 00:15:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:05,000 | 00:15:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:06,000 | 00:15:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:07,000 | 00:15:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:08,000 | 00:15:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:09,000 | 00:15:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:10,000 | 00:15:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:11,000 | 00:15:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:12,000 | 00:15:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:13,000 | 00:15:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:14,000 | 00:15:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:15,000 | 00:15:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:16,000 | 00:15:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:17,000 | 00:15:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:18,000 | 00:15:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:19,000 | 00:15:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:20,000 | 00:15:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:21,000 | 00:15:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:22,000 | 00:15:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:23,000 | 00:15:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:24,000 | 00:15:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:25,000 | 00:15:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:26,000 | 00:15:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:27,000 | 00:15:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:28,000 | 00:15:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:29,000 | 00:15:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:30,000 | 00:15:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:31,000 | 00:15:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:32,000 | 00:15:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:33,000 | 00:15:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:34,000 | 00:15:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:35,000 | 00:15:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:36,000 | 00:15:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:37,000 | 00:15:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:38,000 | 00:15:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:39,000 | 00:15:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:40,000 | 00:15:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:41,000 | 00:15:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:42,000 | 00:15:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:43,000 | 00:15:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:44,000 | 00:15:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:45,000 | 00:15:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:46,000 | 00:15:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:47,000 | 00:15:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:48,000 | 00:15:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:49,000 | 00:15:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:50,000 | 00:15:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:51,000 | 00:15:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:52,000 | 00:15:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:53,000 | 00:15:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:54,000 | 00:15:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:55,000 | 00:15:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:56,000 | 00:15:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:57,000 | 00:15:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:58,000 | 00:15:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:15:59,000 | 00:16:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:00,000 | 00:16:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:01,000 | 00:16:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:02,000 | 00:16:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:03,000 | 00:16:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:04,000 | 00:16:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:05,000 | 00:16:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:06,000 | 00:16:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:07,000 | 00:16:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:08,000 | 00:16:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:09,000 | 00:16:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:10,000 | 00:16:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:11,000 | 00:16:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:12,000 | 00:16:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:13,000 | 00:16:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:14,000 | 00:16:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:15,000 | 00:16:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:16,000 | 00:16:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:17,000 | 00:16:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:18,000 | 00:16:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:19,000 | 00:16:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:20,000 | 00:16:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:21,000 | 00:16:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:22,000 | 00:16:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:23,000 | 00:16:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:24,000 | 00:16:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:25,000 | 00:16:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:26,000 | 00:16:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:27,000 | 00:16:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:28,000 | 00:16:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:29,000 | 00:16:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:30,000 | 00:16:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:31,000 | 00:16:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:32,000 | 00:16:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:33,000 | 00:16:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:34,000 | 00:16:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:35,000 | 00:16:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:36,000 | 00:16:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:37,000 | 00:16:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:38,000 | 00:16:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:39,000 | 00:16:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:40,000 | 00:16:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:41,000 | 00:16:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:42,000 | 00:16:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:43,000 | 00:16:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:44,000 | 00:16:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:45,000 | 00:16:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:46,000 | 00:16:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:47,000 | 00:16:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:48,000 | 00:16:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:49,000 | 00:16:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:50,000 | 00:16:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:51,000 | 00:16:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:52,000 | 00:16:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:53,000 | 00:16:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:54,000 | 00:16:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:55,000 | 00:16:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:56,000 | 00:16:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:57,000 | 00:16:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:58,000 | 00:16:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:16:59,000 | 00:17:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:00,000 | 00:17:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:01,000 | 00:17:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:02,000 | 00:17:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:03,000 | 00:17:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:04,000 | 00:17:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:05,000 | 00:17:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:06,000 | 00:17:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:07,000 | 00:17:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:08,000 | 00:17:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:09,000 | 00:17:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:10,000 | 00:17:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:11,000 | 00:17:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:12,000 | 00:17:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:13,000 | 00:17:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:14,000 | 00:17:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:15,000 | 00:17:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:16,000 | 00:17:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:17,000 | 00:17:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:18,000 | 00:17:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:19,000 | 00:17:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:20,000 | 00:17:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:21,000 | 00:17:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:22,000 | 00:17:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:23,000 | 00:17:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:24,000 | 00:17:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:25,000 | 00:17:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:26,000 | 00:17:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:27,000 | 00:17:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:28,000 | 00:17:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:29,000 | 00:17:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:30,000 | 00:17:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:31,000 | 00:17:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:32,000 | 00:17:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:33,000 | 00:17:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:34,000 | 00:17:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:35,000 | 00:17:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:36,000 | 00:17:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:37,000 | 00:17:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:38,000 | 00:17:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:39,000 | 00:17:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:40,000 | 00:17:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:41,000 | 00:17:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:42,000 | 00:17:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:43,000 | 00:17:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:44,000 | 00:17:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:45,000 | 00:17:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:46,000 | 00:17:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:47,000 | 00:17:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:48,000 | 00:17:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:49,000 | 00:17:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:50,000 | 00:17:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:51,000 | 00:17:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:52,000 | 00:17:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:53,000 | 00:17:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:54,000 | 00:17:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:55,000 | 00:17:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:56,000 | 00:17:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:57,000 | 00:17:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:58,000 | 00:17:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:17:59,000 | 00:18:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:00,000 | 00:18:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:01,000 | 00:18:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:02,000 | 00:18:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:03,000 | 00:18:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:04,000 | 00:18:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:05,000 | 00:18:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:06,000 | 00:18:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:07,000 | 00:18:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:08,000 | 00:18:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:09,000 | 00:18:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:10,000 | 00:18:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:11,000 | 00:18:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:12,000 | 00:18:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:13,000 | 00:18:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:14,000 | 00:18:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:15,000 | 00:18:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:16,000 | 00:18:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:17,000 | 00:18:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:18,000 | 00:18:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:19,000 | 00:18:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:20,000 | 00:18:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:21,000 | 00:18:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:22,000 | 00:18:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:23,000 | 00:18:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:24,000 | 00:18:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:25,000 | 00:18:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:26,000 | 00:18:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:27,000 | 00:18:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:28,000 | 00:18:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:29,000 | 00:18:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:30,000 | 00:18:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:31,000 | 00:18:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:32,000 | 00:18:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:33,000 | 00:18:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:34,000 | 00:18:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:35,000 | 00:18:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:36,000 | 00:18:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:37,000 | 00:18:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:38,000 | 00:18:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:39,000 | 00:18:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:40,000 | 00:18:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:41,000 | 00:18:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:42,000 | 00:18:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:43,000 | 00:18:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:44,000 | 00:18:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:45,000 | 00:18:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:46,000 | 00:18:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:47,000 | 00:18:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:48,000 | 00:18:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:49,000 | 00:18:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:50,000 | 00:18:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:51,000 | 00:18:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:52,000 | 00:18:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:53,000 | 00:18:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:54,000 | 00:18:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:55,000 | 00:18:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:56,000 | 00:18:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:57,000 | 00:18:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:58,000 | 00:18:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:18:59,000 | 00:19:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:00,000 | 00:19:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:01,000 | 00:19:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:02,000 | 00:19:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:03,000 | 00:19:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:04,000 | 00:19:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:05,000 | 00:19:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:06,000 | 00:19:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:07,000 | 00:19:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:08,000 | 00:19:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:09,000 | 00:19:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:10,000 | 00:19:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:11,000 | 00:19:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:12,000 | 00:19:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:13,000 | 00:19:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:14,000 | 00:19:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:15,000 | 00:19:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:16,000 | 00:19:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:17,000 | 00:19:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:18,000 | 00:19:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:19,000 | 00:19:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:20,000 | 00:19:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:21,000 | 00:19:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:22,000 | 00:19:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:23,000 | 00:19:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:24,000 | 00:19:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:25,000 | 00:19:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:26,000 | 00:19:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:27,000 | 00:19:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:28,000 | 00:19:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:29,000 | 00:19:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:30,000 | 00:19:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:31,000 | 00:19:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:32,000 | 00:19:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:33,000 | 00:19:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:34,000 | 00:19:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:35,000 | 00:19:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:36,000 | 00:19:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:37,000 | 00:19:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:38,000 | 00:19:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:39,000 | 00:19:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:40,000 | 00:19:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:41,000 | 00:19:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:42,000 | 00:19:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:43,000 | 00:19:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:44,000 | 00:19:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:45,000 | 00:19:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:46,000 | 00:19:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:47,000 | 00:19:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:48,000 | 00:19:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:49,000 | 00:19:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:50,000 | 00:19:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:51,000 | 00:19:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:52,000 | 00:19:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:53,000 | 00:19:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:54,000 | 00:19:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:55,000 | 00:19:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:56,000 | 00:19:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:57,000 | 00:19:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:58,000 | 00:19:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:19:59,000 | 00:20:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:00,000 | 00:20:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:01,000 | 00:20:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:02,000 | 00:20:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:03,000 | 00:20:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:04,000 | 00:20:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:05,000 | 00:20:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:06,000 | 00:20:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:07,000 | 00:20:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:08,000 | 00:20:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:09,000 | 00:20:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:10,000 | 00:20:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:11,000 | 00:20:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:12,000 | 00:20:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:13,000 | 00:20:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:14,000 | 00:20:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:15,000 | 00:20:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:16,000 | 00:20:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:17,000 | 00:20:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:18,000 | 00:20:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:19,000 | 00:20:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:20,000 | 00:20:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:21,000 | 00:20:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:22,000 | 00:20:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:23,000 | 00:20:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:24,000 | 00:20:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:25,000 | 00:20:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:26,000 | 00:20:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:27,000 | 00:20:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:28,000 | 00:20:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:29,000 | 00:20:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:30,000 | 00:20:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:31,000 | 00:20:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:32,000 | 00:20:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:33,000 | 00:20:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:34,000 | 00:20:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:35,000 | 00:20:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:36,000 | 00:20:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:37,000 | 00:20:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:38,000 | 00:20:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:39,000 | 00:20:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:40,000 | 00:20:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:41,000 | 00:20:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:42,000 | 00:20:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:43,000 | 00:20:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:44,000 | 00:20:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:45,000 | 00:20:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:46,000 | 00:20:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:47,000 | 00:20:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:48,000 | 00:20:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:49,000 | 00:20:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:50,000 | 00:20:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:51,000 | 00:20:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:52,000 | 00:20:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:53,000 | 00:20:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:54,000 | 00:20:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:55,000 | 00:20:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:56,000 | 00:20:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:57,000 | 00:20:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:58,000 | 00:20:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:20:59,000 | 00:21:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:00,000 | 00:21:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:01,000 | 00:21:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:02,000 | 00:21:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:03,000 | 00:21:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:04,000 | 00:21:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:05,000 | 00:21:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:06,000 | 00:21:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:07,000 | 00:21:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:08,000 | 00:21:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:09,000 | 00:21:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:10,000 | 00:21:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:11,000 | 00:21:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:12,000 | 00:21:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:13,000 | 00:21:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:14,000 | 00:21:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:15,000 | 00:21:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:16,000 | 00:21:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:17,000 | 00:21:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:18,000 | 00:21:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:19,000 | 00:21:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:20,000 | 00:21:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:21,000 | 00:21:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:22,000 | 00:21:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:23,000 | 00:21:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:24,000 | 00:21:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:25,000 | 00:21:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:26,000 | 00:21:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:27,000 | 00:21:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:28,000 | 00:21:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:29,000 | 00:21:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:30,000 | 00:21:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:31,000 | 00:21:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:32,000 | 00:21:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:33,000 | 00:21:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:34,000 | 00:21:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:35,000 | 00:21:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:36,000 | 00:21:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:37,000 | 00:21:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:38,000 | 00:21:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:39,000 | 00:21:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:40,000 | 00:21:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:41,000 | 00:21:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:42,000 | 00:21:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:43,000 | 00:21:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:44,000 | 00:21:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:45,000 | 00:21:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:46,000 | 00:21:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:47,000 | 00:21:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:48,000 | 00:21:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:49,000 | 00:21:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:50,000 | 00:21:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:51,000 | 00:21:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:52,000 | 00:21:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:53,000 | 00:21:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:54,000 | 00:21:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:55,000 | 00:21:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:56,000 | 00:21:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:57,000 | 00:21:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:58,000 | 00:21:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:21:59,000 | 00:22:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:00,000 | 00:22:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:01,000 | 00:22:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:02,000 | 00:22:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:03,000 | 00:22:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:04,000 | 00:22:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:05,000 | 00:22:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:06,000 | 00:22:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:07,000 | 00:22:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:08,000 | 00:22:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:09,000 | 00:22:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:10,000 | 00:22:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:11,000 | 00:22:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:12,000 | 00:22:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:13,000 | 00:22:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:14,000 | 00:22:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:15,000 | 00:22:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:16,000 | 00:22:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:17,000 | 00:22:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:18,000 | 00:22:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:19,000 | 00:22:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:20,000 | 00:22:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:21,000 | 00:22:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:22,000 | 00:22:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:23,000 | 00:22:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:24,000 | 00:22:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:25,000 | 00:22:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:26,000 | 00:22:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:27,000 | 00:22:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:28,000 | 00:22:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:29,000 | 00:22:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:30,000 | 00:22:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:31,000 | 00:22:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:32,000 | 00:22:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:33,000 | 00:22:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:34,000 | 00:22:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:35,000 | 00:22:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:36,000 | 00:22:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:37,000 | 00:22:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:38,000 | 00:22:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:39,000 | 00:22:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:40,000 | 00:22:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:41,000 | 00:22:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:42,000 | 00:22:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:43,000 | 00:22:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:44,000 | 00:22:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:45,000 | 00:22:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:46,000 | 00:22:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:47,000 | 00:22:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:48,000 | 00:22:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:49,000 | 00:22:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:50,000 | 00:22:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:51,000 | 00:22:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:52,000 | 00:22:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:53,000 | 00:22:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:54,000 | 00:22:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:55,000 | 00:22:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:56,000 | 00:22:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:57,000 | 00:22:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:58,000 | 00:22:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:22:59,000 | 00:23:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:00,000 | 00:23:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:01,000 | 00:23:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:02,000 | 00:23:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:03,000 | 00:23:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:04,000 | 00:23:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:05,000 | 00:23:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:06,000 | 00:23:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:07,000 | 00:23:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:08,000 | 00:23:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:09,000 | 00:23:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:10,000 | 00:23:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:11,000 | 00:23:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:12,000 | 00:23:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:13,000 | 00:23:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:14,000 | 00:23:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:15,000 | 00:23:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:16,000 | 00:23:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:17,000 | 00:23:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:18,000 | 00:23:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:19,000 | 00:23:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:20,000 | 00:23:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:21,000 | 00:23:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:22,000 | 00:23:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:23,000 | 00:23:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:24,000 | 00:23:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:25,000 | 00:23:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:26,000 | 00:23:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:27,000 | 00:23:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:28,000 | 00:23:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:29,000 | 00:23:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:30,000 | 00:23:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:31,000 | 00:23:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:32,000 | 00:23:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:33,000 | 00:23:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:34,000 | 00:23:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:35,000 | 00:23:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:36,000 | 00:23:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:37,000 | 00:23:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:38,000 | 00:23:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:39,000 | 00:23:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:40,000 | 00:23:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:41,000 | 00:23:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:42,000 | 00:23:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:43,000 | 00:23:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:44,000 | 00:23:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:45,000 | 00:23:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:46,000 | 00:23:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:47,000 | 00:23:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:48,000 | 00:23:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:49,000 | 00:23:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:50,000 | 00:23:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:51,000 | 00:23:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:52,000 | 00:23:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:53,000 | 00:23:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:54,000 | 00:23:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:55,000 | 00:23:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:56,000 | 00:23:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:57,000 | 00:23:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:58,000 | 00:23:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:23:59,000 | 00:24:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:00,000 | 00:24:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:01,000 | 00:24:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:02,000 | 00:24:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:03,000 | 00:24:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:04,000 | 00:24:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:05,000 | 00:24:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:06,000 | 00:24:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:07,000 | 00:24:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:08,000 | 00:24:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:09,000 | 00:24:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:10,000 | 00:24:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:11,000 | 00:24:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:12,000 | 00:24:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:13,000 | 00:24:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:14,000 | 00:24:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:15,000 | 00:24:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:16,000 | 00:24:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:17,000 | 00:24:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:18,000 | 00:24:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:19,000 | 00:24:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:20,000 | 00:24:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:21,000 | 00:24:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:22,000 | 00:24:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:23,000 | 00:24:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:24,000 | 00:24:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:25,000 | 00:24:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:26,000 | 00:24:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:27,000 | 00:24:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:28,000 | 00:24:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:29,000 | 00:24:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:30,000 | 00:24:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:31,000 | 00:24:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:32,000 | 00:24:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:33,000 | 00:24:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:34,000 | 00:24:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:35,000 | 00:24:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:36,000 | 00:24:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:37,000 | 00:24:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:38,000 | 00:24:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:39,000 | 00:24:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:40,000 | 00:24:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:41,000 | 00:24:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:42,000 | 00:24:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:43,000 | 00:24:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:44,000 | 00:24:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:45,000 | 00:24:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:46,000 | 00:24:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:47,000 | 00:24:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:48,000 | 00:24:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:49,000 | 00:24:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:50,000 | 00:24:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:51,000 | 00:24:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:52,000 | 00:24:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:53,000 | 00:24:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:54,000 | 00:24:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:55,000 | 00:24:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:56,000 | 00:24:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:57,000 | 00:24:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:58,000 | 00:24:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:24:59,000 | 00:25:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:00,000 | 00:25:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:01,000 | 00:25:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:02,000 | 00:25:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:03,000 | 00:25:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:04,000 | 00:25:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:05,000 | 00:25:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:06,000 | 00:25:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:07,000 | 00:25:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:08,000 | 00:25:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:09,000 | 00:25:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:10,000 | 00:25:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:11,000 | 00:25:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:12,000 | 00:25:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:13,000 | 00:25:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:14,000 | 00:25:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:15,000 | 00:25:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:16,000 | 00:25:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:17,000 | 00:25:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:18,000 | 00:25:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:19,000 | 00:25:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:20,000 | 00:25:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:21,000 | 00:25:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:22,000 | 00:25:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:23,000 | 00:25:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:24,000 | 00:25:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:25,000 | 00:25:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:26,000 | 00:25:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:27,000 | 00:25:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:28,000 | 00:25:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:29,000 | 00:25:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:30,000 | 00:25:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:31,000 | 00:25:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:32,000 | 00:25:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:33,000 | 00:25:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:34,000 | 00:25:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:35,000 | 00:25:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:36,000 | 00:25:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:37,000 | 00:25:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:38,000 | 00:25:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:39,000 | 00:25:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:40,000 | 00:25:41,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:41,000 | 00:25:42,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:42,000 | 00:25:43,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:43,000 | 00:25:44,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:44,000 | 00:25:45,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:45,000 | 00:25:46,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:46,000 | 00:25:47,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:47,000 | 00:25:48,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:48,000 | 00:25:49,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:49,000 | 00:25:50,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:50,000 | 00:25:51,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:51,000 | 00:25:52,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:52,000 | 00:25:53,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:53,000 | 00:25:54,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:54,000 | 00:25:55,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:55,000 | 00:25:56,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:56,000 | 00:25:57,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:57,000 | 00:25:58,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:58,000 | 00:25:59,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:25:59,000 | 00:26:00,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:00,000 | 00:26:01,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:01,000 | 00:26:02,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:02,000 | 00:26:03,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:03,000 | 00:26:04,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:04,000 | 00:26:05,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:05,000 | 00:26:06,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:06,000 | 00:26:07,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:07,000 | 00:26:08,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:08,000 | 00:26:09,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:09,000 | 00:26:10,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:10,000 | 00:26:11,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:11,000 | 00:26:12,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:12,000 | 00:26:13,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:13,000 | 00:26:14,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:14,000 | 00:26:15,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:15,000 | 00:26:16,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:16,000 | 00:26:17,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:17,000 | 00:26:18,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:18,000 | 00:26:19,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:19,000 | 00:26:20,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:20,000 | 00:26:21,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:21,000 | 00:26:22,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:22,000 | 00:26:23,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:23,000 | 00:26:24,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:24,000 | 00:26:25,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:25,000 | 00:26:26,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:26,000 | 00:26:27,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:27,000 | 00:26:28,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:28,000 | 00:26:29,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:29,000 | 00:26:30,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:30,000 | 00:26:31,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:31,000 | 00:26:32,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:32,000 | 00:26:33,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:33,000 | 00:26:34,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:34,000 | 00:26:35,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:35,000 | 00:26:36,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:36,000 | 00:26:37,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:37,000 | 00:26:38,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:38,000 | 00:26:39,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:39,000 | 00:26:40,000 | 我真的覺得自己的心情很難受 |
| 00:26:40,000 | 00:26:59,000 | 請準備報告出席人數 |
| 00:26:59,000 | 00:27:01,000 | 報告委員會出席委員五人 |
| 00:27:01,000 | 00:27:02,000 | 已足法定人數 |
| 00:27:02,000 | 00:27:05,000 | 現在進行開會進行報告事項 |
| 00:27:05,000 | 00:27:08,000 | 請宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| 00:27:08,000 | 00:27:10,000 | 順利十一屆第五會期經濟委員會 |
| 00:27:10,000 | 00:27:12,000 | 第24次全體委員會議事錄 |
| 00:27:12,000 | 00:27:14,000 | 時間115年8月5日星期三 |
| 00:27:14,000 | 00:27:16,000 | 時時33分至12時15分 |
| 00:27:16,000 | 00:27:18,000 | 地點黃樓101會議室 |
| 00:27:18,000 | 00:27:20,000 | 書記委員洪義祥等13人 |
| 00:27:20,000 | 00:27:22,000 | 內行委員林大樓等12人 |
| 00:27:22,000 | 00:27:24,000 | 內行委員經濟部政務次長何靜昌等 |
| 00:27:24,000 | 00:27:26,000 | 主席召集委員邱志偉 |
| 00:27:26,000 | 00:27:27,000 | 報告事項 |
| 00:27:27,000 | 00:27:28,000 | 宣讀上次會議事錄 |
| 00:27:28,000 | 00:27:30,000 | 決定確定談事項 |
| 00:27:30,000 | 00:27:31,000 | 繼續審查 |
| 00:27:31,000 | 00:27:32,000 | 1.行政案函情審議 |
| 00:27:32,000 | 00:27:34,000 | 本院委員賴文榮等17人 |
| 00:27:34,000 | 00:27:36,000 | 委員蔡吉昌等19人 |
| 00:27:36,000 | 00:27:37,000 | 委員鍾嘉斌等20人 |
| 00:27:37,000 | 00:27:38,000 | 委員鄭天才等17人 |
| 00:27:38,000 | 00:27:40,000 | 委員徐清穎等16人 |
| 00:27:40,000 | 00:27:41,000 | 委員楊秋瑩等23人 |
| 00:27:41,000 | 00:27:43,000 | 委員陳庭飛等20人 |
| 00:27:43,000 | 00:27:44,000 | 委員邱志偉等16人 |
| 00:27:44,000 | 00:27:46,000 | 分別擬具能源管理法 |
| 00:27:46,000 | 00:27:48,000 | 部分條文修正草案等9案 |
| 00:27:48,000 | 00:27:50,000 | 2.本院委員楊秋瑩等21人擬具 |
| 00:27:50,000 | 00:27:52,000 | 能源管理法第7條條文修正草案 |
| 00:27:52,000 | 00:27:54,000 | 3.本院委員邱義穎等17人 |
| 00:27:54,000 | 00:27:56,000 | 委員郭國文等16人分別擬具 |
| 00:27:56,000 | 00:27:58,000 | 能源管理法增訂第19條之2 |
| 00:27:58,000 | 00:28:00,000 | 及第27條之1條文草案等2案 |
| 00:28:00,000 | 00:28:03,000 | 4.本院委員鄭天才等16人擬具 |
| 00:28:03,000 | 00:28:05,000 | 能源管理法第2條條文修正草案 |
| 00:28:05,000 | 00:28:08,000 | 決議1.第2條、第6條 |
| 00:28:08,000 | 00:28:10,000 | 增訂第6條之1、第7條、第9條 |
| 00:28:10,000 | 00:28:13,000 | 第18條、第19條之1、第20條 |
| 00:28:13,000 | 00:28:15,000 | 第20條之1、第21條、第22條 |
| 00:28:15,000 | 00:28:18,000 | 第23條、第24條及第29條條文 |
| 00:28:18,000 | 00:28:20,000 | 均照行政體驗通過 |
| 00:28:20,000 | 00:28:23,000 | 2.增訂第3條之1、增訂第7條之1 |
| 00:28:23,000 | 00:28:25,000 | 增訂第10條之1、增訂第19條之1 |
| 00:28:25,000 | 00:28:30,000 | 增訂第20條之2及增訂第27條之1條文均不已增訂 |
| 00:28:30,000 | 00:28:33,000 | 3.第5條條文不已修正維持現行條文 |
| 00:28:33,000 | 00:28:37,000 | 4.第10條條文照委員鄭家斌等人所提 |
| 00:28:37,000 | 00:28:38,000 | 再修正待遇通過 |
| 00:28:38,000 | 00:28:39,000 | 條文如下 |
| 00:28:39,000 | 00:28:40,000 | 第10條 |
| 00:28:40,000 | 00:28:46,000 | 能源用戶生產蒸汽達中央主管機關規定數量者 |
| 00:28:46,000 | 00:28:48,000 | 應裝設氣電供生設備 |
| 00:28:48,000 | 00:28:50,000 | 能源用戶裝設氣電供生設備 |
| 00:28:50,000 | 00:28:54,000 | 有效熱能比例及總熱效率達中央主管機關規定者 |
| 00:28:54,000 | 00:28:58,000 | 得請當地眾為電業收購及生產電能晶儀電 |
| 00:28:58,000 | 00:29:01,000 | 以提供系統維修或故障所需備用電力 |
| 00:29:01,000 | 00:29:05,000 | 當地政府電業除了正當理由並經中央主管機關核准外 |
| 00:29:05,000 | 00:29:06,000 | 不得拒絕 |
| 00:29:06,000 | 00:29:08,000 | 前向收購餘電費率 |
| 00:29:08,000 | 00:29:13,000 | 氣電供生有效熱能比例與總熱效率基準查驗方式 |
| 00:29:13,000 | 00:29:17,000 | 裝設氣電供生之能源用戶與綜合電業相互並聯 |
| 00:29:17,000 | 00:29:18,000 | 電能收購方式 |
| 00:29:18,000 | 00:29:20,000 | 購電與備用電力費率 |
| 00:29:20,000 | 00:29:24,000 | 收購餘電依陸之執行期間及其他相關事項之備案辦法 |
| 00:29:24,000 | 00:29:26,000 | 由中央主管機關訂製 |
| 00:29:26,000 | 00:29:30,000 | 能源用戶新增或增設用電支契約能量達規定能量者 |
| 00:29:30,000 | 00:29:36,000 | 應期間內設置一定裝置能量以上之自動發電設備或儲能設備 |
| 00:29:36,000 | 00:29:45,000 | 前向支區域設容量期限裝置能量設置自動發電設備與儲能設備之種類方式及其他相關事項之辦法 |
| 00:29:45,000 | 00:29:47,000 | 由中央主管機關訂製 |
| 00:29:47,000 | 00:29:49,000 | 五 討論事項所列個案審查環境 |
| 00:29:49,000 | 00:29:52,000 | 並用語氣審查報告提報院會討論 |
| 00:29:52,000 | 00:29:58,000 | 不需叫黨團協商並推請秋朝九年自委與院會討論時做補充說明 |
| 00:29:58,000 | 00:29:59,000 | 主席宣告 |
| 00:29:59,000 | 00:30:04,000 | 審查通過這條文相關法制用語授權主席及醫事人員整理、上會宣布完畢 |
| 00:30:06,000 | 00:30:07,000 | 好 |
| 00:30:07,000 | 00:30:09,000 | 我們在場委員還不大聲 |
| 00:30:09,000 | 00:30:11,000 | 我們繼續進行報告事項 |
| 00:30:11,000 | 00:30:12,000 | 請宣讀 |
| 00:30:13,000 | 00:30:19,000 | 邀請經濟部部長、帥台灣糖業股份有限公司董事長、法務部首長、衛生福利部首長及審計部首長 |
| 00:30:19,000 | 00:30:24,000 | 就台灣糖業股份有限公司經營治理及風險控管監討 |
| 00:30:24,000 | 00:30:28,000 | 中聯合資事件、台南受益案等重大債權追償 |
| 00:30:28,000 | 00:30:33,000 | 暨審計部114年度決算審核意見改善情形進行報告並被質詢 |
| 00:30:33,000 | 00:30:34,000 | 宣讀完畢 |
| 00:30:37,000 | 00:30:38,000 | 好 |
| 00:30:38,000 | 00:30:42,000 | 那我先介紹一下列席的機關首長 |
| 00:30:42,000 | 00:30:46,000 | 首先我們請經濟部部長、董明星 |
| 00:30:46,000 | 00:30:49,000 | 產業發展署署長邱求惠 |
| 00:30:50,000 | 00:30:53,000 | 商業發展署署長蘇文玲 |
| 00:30:53,000 | 00:30:56,000 | 中小級新創企業署署長李冠志 |
| 00:30:57,000 | 00:31:01,000 | 台灣糖業公司副總經理蔡東霖 |
| 00:31:02,000 | 00:31:03,000 | 我先說明一下 |
| 00:31:03,000 | 00:31:08,000 | 因為本來今天是要請董事長吳明昌兼總經理來報告 |
| 00:31:08,000 | 00:31:10,000 | 可是他給我的是 |
| 00:31:11,000 | 00:31:15,000 | 出國的日期是8月5號到8月15號 |
| 00:31:15,000 | 00:31:21,000 | 視察金字農業事業部、美國加州及加拿大貝斯芬公司影印現況 |
| 00:31:21,000 | 00:31:27,000 | 評估荷蘭業者進軍美國蘭花市場衝擊之、關稅之影響 |
| 00:31:28,000 | 00:31:29,000 | 所以他已經出國 |
| 00:31:29,000 | 00:31:31,000 | 所以我也沒辦法 |
| 00:31:31,000 | 00:31:34,000 | 但是我還是沒看到台糖的報告 |
| 00:31:34,000 | 00:31:36,000 | 等一下可能簡單口頭報告一下 |
| 00:31:36,000 | 00:31:38,000 | 因為沒有看到書面 |
| 00:31:39,000 | 00:31:40,000 | 好接下來的話 |
| 00:31:40,000 | 00:31:44,000 | 法務部法律事務司代理司長謝志明 |
| 00:31:46,000 | 00:31:50,000 | 再來是衛福部時後署署長江志剛署長 |
| 00:31:52,000 | 00:31:55,000 | 審計部副審計長林如玲 |
| 00:31:59,000 | 00:32:08,000 | 本日專題的報告排定台灣糖業股份有限公司經營治理及風險控管之檢討 |
| 00:32:08,000 | 00:32:13,000 | 中聯有紙事件、台糖受益案等重大債權追償及審計部 |
| 00:32:14,000 | 00:32:20,000 | 114年度決算審核意見改善情形進行報告並被質詢 |
| 00:32:20,000 | 00:32:23,000 | 首先我們請經濟部長公明先報告 |
| 00:32:23,000 | 00:32:25,000 | 大概六分鐘 謝謝 |
| 00:32:32,000 | 00:32:35,000 | 主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先進 |
| 00:32:35,000 | 00:32:36,000 | 大家早安 |
| 00:32:36,000 | 00:32:43,000 | 感謝各位委員會邀請本部進行有關台糖相關議題的專案報告 |
| 00:32:43,000 | 00:32:46,000 | 進行各位委員不吝指教 |
| 00:32:46,000 | 00:32:50,000 | 首先是關於中聯有紙事件的部分 |
| 00:32:50,000 | 00:32:56,000 | 115年台糖公司向福茂採購黃豆出油 |
| 00:32:56,000 | 00:33:04,000 | 首批因為本品比不符合企業規範而遭到台糖公司的拒收 |
| 00:33:04,000 | 00:33:09,000 | 後續兩批雖然檢驗合格並製成沙拉油 |
| 00:33:09,000 | 00:33:16,000 | 但是受到代工廠中聯成品由本品比超標事件的影響 |
| 00:33:16,000 | 00:33:20,000 | 台糖公司採取了預防性的下架 |
| 00:33:20,000 | 00:33:27,000 | 總共將2881公噸的相關成品跟庫存下架來控管 |
| 00:33:27,000 | 00:33:31,000 | 等待主管機關指示以後後續看能不能夠上架 |
| 00:33:31,000 | 00:33:34,000 | 台糖公司的因應做法是 |
| 00:33:34,000 | 00:33:38,000 | 首先台糖公司自主送檢還有主管機關 |
| 00:33:38,000 | 00:33:45,000 | 主管機關包括中央食藥署還有地方高雄市政府衛生局抽驗的樣品 |
| 00:33:45,000 | 00:33:48,000 | 無論是出油也好或成品油也好 |
| 00:33:48,000 | 00:33:52,000 | 本品比的檢驗的結果均符合相關規定 |
| 00:33:52,000 | 00:34:01,000 | 第二個115年5月18號據說這一批的油 |
| 00:34:01,000 | 00:34:05,000 | 基本上也沒有進到台糖公司裡面也沒有製成成品 |
| 00:34:05,000 | 00:34:10,000 | 事實上這一批油事實上還在中聯的油庫裡面 |
| 00:34:10,000 | 00:34:16,000 | 非屬於食安法第七條第五項對於產品危害之通報要件 |
| 00:34:16,000 | 00:34:19,000 | 所以依法來講的話並沒有通報的這個義務 |
| 00:34:19,000 | 00:34:27,000 | 第三個下半年台糖公司決定停購外購的這個在國內購置這個出油 |
| 00:34:27,000 | 00:34:32,000 | 全數要以自主的進口黃豆來製成油品 |
| 00:34:32,000 | 00:34:37,000 | 那第四個未來假如食安法修法通過以後 |
| 00:34:37,000 | 00:34:40,000 | 有訂定的明確的遵行的依據 |
| 00:34:40,000 | 00:34:43,000 | 台糖公司也會依法來遵行辦理 |
| 00:34:43,000 | 00:34:49,000 | 那第三機遇部就是本部115年7月28號 |
| 00:34:49,000 | 00:34:53,000 | 也實地到這個台糖公司小港廠去查核 |
| 00:34:53,000 | 00:34:58,000 | 確認他沒有買到中聯有問題的這個出油 |
| 00:34:58,000 | 00:35:04,000 | 那後續本部請台糖公司要全力配合地方政府 |
| 00:35:04,000 | 00:35:06,000 | 衛生局還有食藥署的抽檢 |
| 00:35:06,000 | 00:35:08,000 | 那儘速的恢復油品可以上架 |
| 00:35:08,000 | 00:35:14,000 | 那第二個也是有關於台糖公司債權追討的這個部分 |
| 00:35:14,000 | 00:35:20,000 | 首先台糖公司每一年都會按照這個持續的調查 |
| 00:35:20,000 | 00:35:24,000 | 財務人等等財產還有他所得的資料 |
| 00:35:24,000 | 00:35:31,000 | 那前一次申請管受目的是在希望這個債務人他可以清償 |
| 00:35:31,000 | 00:35:34,000 | 那因為債務人的律師在庭訓的時候承諾 |
| 00:35:34,000 | 00:35:40,000 | 將要提出這個清償的計畫並且跟台糖公司來做協商 |
| 00:35:40,000 | 00:35:46,000 | 那基於促使這個債務人出面協商清償債務的管受的目的 |
| 00:35:46,000 | 00:35:54,000 | 台糖公司在當庭應這個法官的訊問就先行的撤回了管收的申請 |
| 00:35:54,000 | 00:35:59,000 | 並且表示如果債務人沒有出面進行協商的話 |
| 00:35:59,000 | 00:36:02,000 | 會再次的向法院申請管收 |
| 00:36:02,000 | 00:36:08,000 | 那目前台糖公司跟這個債務人的律師代表已經在7月份中旬 |
| 00:36:08,000 | 00:36:11,000 | 有第一次的這個協商 |
| 00:36:11,000 | 00:36:16,000 | 我們已經清楚的向對方表達應該儘速的廠牌這個債權 |
| 00:36:16,000 | 00:36:21,000 | 那雙方將於近期繼續的這個協商 |
| 00:36:21,000 | 00:36:25,000 | 我們希望儘速可以完成這樣的一個協議 |
| 00:36:25,000 | 00:36:32,000 | 第三是有關於審計部在114年度決善審核意見的辦理情形 |
| 00:36:32,000 | 00:36:40,000 | 第一個首先針對合作開發案跟出租契約案終止的情勢仍然頻繁 |
| 00:36:40,000 | 00:36:46,000 | 而且部分的土地屢屢遭到棄置廢棄物 |
| 00:36:46,000 | 00:36:50,000 | 又帶活化的土地面積仍然也很大 |
| 00:36:50,000 | 00:36:52,000 | 租期也快要屆滿 |
| 00:36:52,000 | 00:36:55,000 | 那針對這些事情辦理的情形如下 |
| 00:36:55,000 | 00:36:58,000 | 首先台糖公司積極的配合政府的政策 |
| 00:36:58,000 | 00:37:01,000 | 辦理這個招商出租 |
| 00:37:01,000 | 00:37:06,000 | 但是因為有些沒有獲到民意或地方政府的支持 |
| 00:37:06,000 | 00:37:12,000 | 或者是開發單位另有開發計畫等等的因素導致提前來解約 |
| 00:37:12,000 | 00:37:17,000 | 第二個台糖公司經營土地的面積非常遼闊 |
| 00:37:17,000 | 00:37:19,000 | 遭到棄置廢棄物 |
| 00:37:19,000 | 00:37:26,000 | 台糖公司將會導入科技巡檢的掌握提升這個巡查的量能 |
| 00:37:26,000 | 00:37:32,000 | 第三個台糖公司從104年節制到115年7月底為止 |
| 00:37:32,000 | 00:37:36,000 | 已經活化了1994.76公頃 |
| 00:37:36,000 | 00:37:41,000 | 達成公司活化的目標是141.52% |
| 00:37:41,000 | 00:37:45,000 | 台糖公司會持續的辦理土地活化的作業 |
| 00:37:45,000 | 00:37:49,000 | 第二項是有關於針對租廠改建計畫統包工程 |
| 00:37:49,000 | 00:37:53,000 | 雖然經過了相關的趕工措施 |
| 00:37:53,000 | 00:37:55,000 | 但是進度仍然落後 |
| 00:37:55,000 | 00:37:57,000 | 那辦理的情形如下 |
| 00:37:57,000 | 00:38:00,000 | 第一個農業循環租廠改建的投資計畫 |
| 00:38:00,000 | 00:38:02,000 | 投資計畫目前的進度是這樣的 |
| 00:38:02,000 | 00:38:06,000 | 第一個第一期的改善統包工程總共有六個廠 |
| 00:38:06,000 | 00:38:10,000 | 各廠已經分別進行了工程的檢測 |
| 00:38:10,000 | 00:38:12,000 | 適應轉跟驗收 |
| 00:38:12,000 | 00:38:15,000 | 第二期的統包工程總共有七個廠 |
| 00:38:15,000 | 00:38:21,000 | 整體的計畫預計在115年12月開始會進行適應轉 |
| 00:38:21,000 | 00:38:26,000 | 第二個就是本部每一個禮拜也會跟台糖公司 |
| 00:38:26,000 | 00:38:29,000 | 同樣的統包廠商進行會議 |
| 00:38:29,000 | 00:38:34,000 | 持續的督促租廠提升施工的進度跟品質的改善 |
| 00:38:34,000 | 00:38:39,000 | 第三有關於針對配合政府平地造林的政策 |
| 00:38:39,000 | 00:38:44,000 | 還有很多的地方遭到廢棄物 |
| 00:38:44,000 | 00:38:45,000 | 那說明如下 |
| 00:38:45,000 | 00:38:47,000 | 台糖公司依照農業部的規定 |
| 00:38:47,000 | 00:38:49,000 | 也復始了造林 |
| 00:38:49,000 | 00:38:53,000 | 按照他的這個請領的相關起步 |
| 00:38:53,000 | 00:38:56,000 | 同時間也主動申請註銷相關的面積 |
| 00:38:56,000 | 00:38:58,000 | 而繳回了這個造林的費用 |
| 00:38:58,000 | 00:39:01,000 | 第二個有關於巡查人員認知不足的部分 |
| 00:39:01,000 | 00:39:04,000 | 沒有及時辦理漸漸的釐清 |
| 00:39:04,000 | 00:39:07,000 | 那之前已經召開了人品會 |
| 00:39:07,000 | 00:39:09,000 | 決議成主的疏實的人員 |
| 00:39:09,000 | 00:39:13,000 | 而且含佈了這個審計部再案 |
| 00:39:13,000 | 00:39:15,000 | 那總而言之 |
| 00:39:15,000 | 00:39:18,000 | 本部將持續督促台糖公司 |
| 00:39:18,000 | 00:39:21,000 | 依法辦理強制執行跟催收的求償 |
| 00:39:21,000 | 00:39:23,000 | 保障公司的這個債權 |
| 00:39:23,000 | 00:39:25,000 | 第二個在食品安全的部分 |
| 00:39:25,000 | 00:39:28,000 | 嚴守法規落實原料檢查 |
| 00:39:28,000 | 00:39:30,000 | 穩定公益民生的需求 |
| 00:39:30,000 | 00:39:32,000 | 以上報告進行指教 |
| 00:39:32,000 | 00:39:35,000 | 好謝謝部長的報告 |
| 00:39:35,000 | 00:39:38,000 | 接下來我們請衛福部那個 |
| 00:39:38,000 | 00:39:41,000 | 食藥署署長來 |
| 00:39:52,000 | 00:39:54,000 | 主席各位委員 |
| 00:39:54,000 | 00:39:55,000 | 女士先生 |
| 00:39:55,000 | 00:39:58,000 | 今天大院第十一屆第五次 |
| 00:39:58,000 | 00:40:02,000 | 會期經濟委員會召開全體委員會議 |
| 00:40:02,000 | 00:40:05,000 | 本部誠邀列席報告 |
| 00:40:05,000 | 00:40:06,000 | 深感榮幸 |
| 00:40:06,000 | 00:40:09,000 | 製救台灣糖業股份有限公司 |
| 00:40:09,000 | 00:40:13,000 | 經營治理及風險控管之檢討 |
| 00:40:13,000 | 00:40:15,000 | 中聯有質事件 |
| 00:40:15,000 | 00:40:19,000 | 台糖受益案等重大債權追償 |
| 00:40:19,000 | 00:40:22,000 | 繼審計部一百一四年度 |
| 00:40:22,000 | 00:40:25,000 | 決算審核意見改善情形 |
| 00:40:25,000 | 00:40:28,000 | 提出專案專題報告 |
| 00:40:28,000 | 00:40:31,000 | 近期各位委員不吝會議指教 |
| 00:40:31,000 | 00:40:34,000 | 本案中聯大豆沙拉油扁平皮 |
| 00:40:34,000 | 00:40:37,000 | 鈔標事件處理說明 |
| 00:40:37,000 | 00:40:41,000 | 本次中聯大豆沙拉油事件 |
| 00:40:41,000 | 00:40:45,000 | 本部秉持風險及時掌控 |
| 00:40:45,000 | 00:40:47,000 | 資訊公開透明 |
| 00:40:47,000 | 00:40:50,000 | 依法行政處理三大原則 |
| 00:40:50,000 | 00:40:53,000 | 全面處理事件處置 |
| 00:40:53,000 | 00:40:55,000 | 追查原因 |
| 00:40:55,000 | 00:41:00,000 | 追責就責裁罰及制度改革 |
| 00:41:00,000 | 00:41:02,000 | 首先本部食品藥物管理署 |
| 00:41:02,000 | 00:41:07,000 | 於一百一十五年六月三十日下午四十六分 |
| 00:41:07,000 | 00:41:10,000 | 揭露中聯公司通報其大豆沙拉油 |
| 00:41:10,000 | 00:41:12,000 | 不符食安法規定後 |
| 00:41:12,000 | 00:41:16,000 | 及啟動應變機制處理及要求業者 |
| 00:41:16,000 | 00:41:19,000 | 配合辦理下架回收 |
| 00:41:19,000 | 00:41:22,000 | 亦召開專家會議 |
| 00:41:22,000 | 00:41:25,000 | 確立流向掌握因應處理 |
| 00:41:25,000 | 00:41:28,000 | 後續食藥署並委託專家成立 |
| 00:41:28,000 | 00:41:32,000 | 中聯油脂事件獨立調查小組 |
| 00:41:32,000 | 00:41:34,000 | 進場調查 |
| 00:41:34,000 | 00:41:37,000 | 相關調查結果並於七月二十七日公佈 |
| 00:41:37,000 | 00:41:38,000 | 第二 |
| 00:41:38,000 | 00:41:43,000 | 有關脫膠原油撿出扁平皮案說明 |
| 00:41:43,000 | 00:41:46,000 | 本案台糖公司當時上 |
| 00:41:46,000 | 00:41:49,000 | 為經收獲之脫膠原油 |
| 00:41:49,000 | 00:41:52,000 | 人需加工之原油 |
| 00:41:52,000 | 00:41:56,000 | 尚未成為可食用油品的產品 |
| 00:41:56,000 | 00:42:01,000 | 人需經續脫酸脫色脫臭 |
| 00:42:01,000 | 00:42:06,000 | 等多到經驗續成才能製成食用油 |
| 00:42:06,000 | 00:42:12,000 | 再者依據食品中汙染物質及毒素衛生標準規定 |
| 00:42:12,000 | 00:42:17,000 | 系對直接供食或作為食品加工用之油脂 |
| 00:42:17,000 | 00:42:20,000 | 所訂之衛生規定 |
| 00:42:22,000 | 00:42:25,000 | 台糖公司脫膠原油減充扁平皮 |
| 00:42:25,000 | 00:42:28,000 | 尚無違反衛生標準 |
| 00:42:28,000 | 00:42:33,000 | 自無食安法第七條第五項規定之通報義務 |
| 00:42:33,000 | 00:42:35,000 | 第三消費者保障 |
| 00:42:35,000 | 00:42:40,000 | 本部已要求業者妥適處理消費者權益事宜 |
| 00:42:40,000 | 00:42:44,000 | 重寬重優重速重減辦理退貨賠償 |
| 00:42:44,000 | 00:42:51,000 | 並將依食安法及消保法協助消保團體提起團體訴訟 |
| 00:42:51,000 | 00:42:56,000 | 相關費用得由食品安全保護基金支應 |
| 00:42:56,000 | 00:43:00,000 | 目前已有台灣消費者保護協會 |
| 00:43:00,000 | 00:43:05,000 | 財團法人中華民國消費者文教基金會受理本案團體訴訟 |
| 00:43:05,000 | 00:43:09,000 | 為民眾請求損害賠償 |
| 00:43:09,000 | 00:43:12,000 | 第四制度改革方面 |
| 00:43:12,000 | 00:43:16,000 | 本部將從源頭管理製程管理 |
| 00:43:16,000 | 00:43:21,000 | 異常通報品質管理及數位管理面向 |
| 00:43:21,000 | 00:43:23,000 | 推動實際法案精進 |
| 00:43:23,000 | 00:43:26,000 | 並依據事件調查結果 |
| 00:43:26,000 | 00:43:30,000 | 專家建議及實務執行情形 |
| 00:43:30,000 | 00:43:32,000 | 以啟動食安法修法作業 |
| 00:43:32,000 | 00:43:36,000 | 全面檢討食品安全管理制度 |
| 00:43:36,000 | 00:43:39,000 | 強化食品安全防護網 |
| 00:43:39,000 | 00:43:43,000 | 本次中聯大豆由事件發生後 |
| 00:43:43,000 | 00:43:46,000 | 本部秉持風險及時掌控 |
| 00:43:46,000 | 00:43:48,000 | 資訊公開透明 |
| 00:43:48,000 | 00:43:50,000 | 依法行政處理原則 |
| 00:43:50,000 | 00:43:54,000 | 透過最快速的行動與完整的制度改善 |
| 00:43:54,000 | 00:43:58,000 | 檢討防堵類似情形再度發生 |
| 00:43:58,000 | 00:44:01,000 | 全力維護消費者食品安全及潛意 |
| 00:44:01,000 | 00:44:05,000 | 本部亦將持續精進食品安全管理制度 |
| 00:44:05,000 | 00:44:08,000 | 建立更周延的食品安全防護網 |
| 00:44:08,000 | 00:44:11,000 | 守護國人飲食健康 |
| 00:44:11,000 | 00:44:14,000 | 本部誠大院各委員之指導及監督 |
| 00:44:14,000 | 00:44:16,000 | 在此盡致謝誠 |
| 00:44:16,000 | 00:44:19,000 | 並其各位委員繼續予以支持 |
| 00:44:19,000 | 00:44:21,000 | 以上 |
| 00:44:21,000 | 00:44:23,000 | 好 謝謝 |
| 00:44:23,000 | 00:44:24,000 | 謝謝市長報告 |
| 00:44:24,000 | 00:44:26,000 | 來接下來我們請審計部 |
| 00:44:26,000 | 00:44:27,000 | 副審計長 |
| 00:44:33,000 | 00:44:34,000 | 主席 |
| 00:44:34,000 | 00:44:36,000 | 各位委員 |
| 00:44:36,000 | 00:44:37,000 | 各位先進 |
| 00:44:37,000 | 00:44:38,000 | 大家早安 |
| 00:44:38,000 | 00:44:40,000 | 今天本部應邀列席報告 |
| 00:44:40,000 | 00:44:45,000 | 臺灣糖業股份有限公司經營治理及風險控款之檢討 |
| 00:44:45,000 | 00:44:47,000 | 中年油脂事件 |
| 00:44:47,000 | 00:44:50,000 | 台糖授地案等重大債權追償 |
| 00:44:50,000 | 00:44:51,000 | 繼審計部 |
| 00:44:52,000 | 00:44:53,000 | 臺糖公司 |
| 00:44:53,000 | 00:44:54,000 | 一百四十四年度 |
| 00:44:54,000 | 00:44:56,000 | 決算審核意見改善情形 |
| 00:44:56,000 | 00:44:58,000 | 深感榮幸 |
| 00:44:58,000 | 00:44:59,000 | 之將台糖公司 |
| 00:44:59,000 | 00:45:00,000 | 一百四十四年度 |
| 00:45:00,000 | 00:45:01,000 | 營運情形 |
| 00:45:01,000 | 00:45:03,000 | 跟本部決算審核意見 |
| 00:45:03,000 | 00:45:05,000 | 檢要報告如此 |
| 00:45:05,000 | 00:45:06,000 | 一 |
| 00:45:06,000 | 00:45:07,000 | 台糖公司 |
| 00:45:07,000 | 00:45:08,000 | 一百四十四年度 |
| 00:45:08,000 | 00:45:09,000 | 經營結果 |
| 00:45:09,000 | 00:45:13,000 | 本期稅後淨利是七十四億八千一萬元 |
| 00:45:13,000 | 00:45:14,000 | 教育算數 |
| 00:45:14,000 | 00:45:17,000 | 增加十八億三千一萬元 |
| 00:45:17,000 | 00:45:18,000 | 約百分之三十二 |
| 00:45:18,000 | 00:45:19,000 | 那主要是 |
| 00:45:19,000 | 00:45:21,000 | 核建的營建案 |
| 00:45:21,000 | 00:45:24,000 | 完工戶數教育計增加所致 |
| 00:45:24,000 | 00:45:25,000 | 二 |
| 00:45:25,000 | 00:45:27,000 | 本部在一百十四年度 |
| 00:45:27,000 | 00:45:29,000 | 審核報告營業部分 |
| 00:45:29,000 | 00:45:31,000 | 揭露台糖公司重要審核意見 |
| 00:45:31,000 | 00:45:33,000 | 既有九項 |
| 00:45:33,000 | 00:45:34,000 | 第一項是 |
| 00:45:34,000 | 00:45:37,000 | 台糖公司開發利用灰質用土地 |
| 00:45:37,000 | 00:45:40,000 | 採行多元活化措施 |
| 00:45:40,000 | 00:45:42,000 | 為藉由土地合作開發 |
| 00:45:42,000 | 00:45:44,000 | 或者是出租契約 |
| 00:45:44,000 | 00:45:46,000 | 提前終止情事 |
| 00:45:46,000 | 00:45:47,000 | 第二是 |
| 00:45:47,000 | 00:45:49,000 | 為了有效利用土地 |
| 00:45:49,000 | 00:45:51,000 | 辦理小管土地的出租 |
| 00:45:51,000 | 00:45:53,000 | 跟地上權的設定作業 |
| 00:45:53,000 | 00:45:55,000 | 但是部分土地承租人 |
| 00:45:55,000 | 00:45:57,000 | 或者是地上圈人 |
| 00:45:57,000 | 00:45:59,000 | 唯一規範使用土地 |
| 00:45:59,000 | 00:46:02,000 | 又截止到一百十四年底 |
| 00:46:02,000 | 00:46:06,000 | 為清廠的應收預期欠款跟催收款 |
| 00:46:06,000 | 00:46:08,000 | 高達四億七千一萬元 |
| 00:46:08,000 | 00:46:09,000 | 金額旁巨 |
| 00:46:09,000 | 00:46:11,000 | 第三項是 |
| 00:46:11,000 | 00:46:13,000 | 台糖公司分期辦理 |
| 00:46:13,000 | 00:46:16,000 | 農業循環租場改建進化 |
| 00:46:16,000 | 00:46:19,000 | 但是進度持續落後 |
| 00:46:19,000 | 00:46:21,000 | 而且有部分的蓄質廠 |
| 00:46:21,000 | 00:46:22,000 | 多項設備 |
| 00:46:22,000 | 00:46:26,000 | 普京短期試車及花生故障損壞 |
| 00:46:27,000 | 00:46:28,000 | 第四是 |
| 00:46:28,000 | 00:46:31,000 | 高雄分公司它的核心業務 |
| 00:46:31,000 | 00:46:33,000 | 物流業的營運績效 |
| 00:46:33,000 | 00:46:35,000 | 連連花生虧損 |
| 00:46:35,000 | 00:46:38,000 | 高雄成功物流園區第二期開發案 |
| 00:46:38,000 | 00:46:42,000 | 自一百零八年四月開始辦理招商 |
| 00:46:42,000 | 00:46:44,000 | 但是截止到一百十四年底 |
| 00:46:44,000 | 00:46:46,000 | 上午廠商進駐 |
| 00:46:47,000 | 00:46:49,000 | 五台糖公司投入 |
| 00:46:49,000 | 00:46:52,000 | 平地造林管理跟浮域維護作業 |
| 00:46:52,000 | 00:46:54,000 | 但是仍然有多處 |
| 00:46:54,000 | 00:46:57,000 | 精管的土地遭占用堆置土石方 |
| 00:46:57,000 | 00:47:00,000 | 或者是棄置大量的廢棄物等情勢 |
| 00:47:01,000 | 00:47:04,000 | 六推動前身宿舍投資計畫 |
| 00:47:04,000 | 00:47:07,000 | 以提升土地開發業務的績效 |
| 00:47:07,000 | 00:47:08,000 | 為計畫完成後 |
| 00:47:08,000 | 00:47:11,000 | 營運效率均未達成預計的目標 |
| 00:47:12,000 | 00:47:15,000 | 部分學院轉型做社會住宅後 |
| 00:47:15,000 | 00:47:17,000 | 出租率亦有下降的趨勢 |
| 00:47:18,000 | 00:47:22,000 | 七配合政府推動軍需循環政策 |
| 00:47:22,000 | 00:47:24,000 | 投資相關民營事業 |
| 00:47:24,000 | 00:47:27,000 | 違背審核事業連連花生虧損 |
| 00:47:28,000 | 00:47:29,000 | 第八項是 |
| 00:47:30,000 | 00:47:33,000 | 生物科技事業部的生技材料廠 |
| 00:47:33,000 | 00:47:35,000 | 它所生產的牟利可粉 |
| 00:47:35,000 | 00:47:38,000 | 實際銷售量遠低於目標量 |
| 00:47:38,000 | 00:47:40,000 | 除造成庫存壓力外 |
| 00:47:40,000 | 00:47:43,000 | 該廠的營業損失亦持續擴大中 |
| 00:47:44,000 | 00:47:45,000 | 最後一項是 |
| 00:47:45,000 | 00:47:47,000 | 台糖公司它投入具有的經費 |
| 00:47:47,000 | 00:47:50,000 | 推動環境保護管理工作 |
| 00:47:50,000 | 00:47:52,000 | 為部分單位仍然從無發生 |
| 00:47:52,000 | 00:47:55,000 | 相同污染室友的違規事件 |
| 00:47:56,000 | 00:47:58,000 | 以上各項造成的意見 |
| 00:47:58,000 | 00:48:01,000 | 台糖公司以嚴厲改善措施 |
| 00:48:01,000 | 00:48:04,000 | 本部當根據注意追蹤其改善情形 |
| 00:48:04,000 | 00:48:06,000 | 以上報告進行主席 |
| 00:48:06,000 | 00:48:08,000 | 各位委員女士先生指教 |
| 00:48:08,000 | 00:48:09,000 | 謝謝 |
| 00:48:11,000 | 00:48:12,000 | 好 |
| 00:48:12,000 | 00:48:14,000 | 謝謝副省長的一個報告 |
| 00:48:14,000 | 00:48:20,000 | 有關本次會議各部會所提的書面報告 |
| 00:48:20,000 | 00:48:23,000 | 請委員自行參閱並刊登公報 |
| 00:48:23,000 | 00:48:25,000 | 我們現在進行詢答 |
| 00:48:25,000 | 00:48:26,000 | 委員質詢前 |
| 00:48:26,000 | 00:48:29,000 | 依照慣例主席來做以下的宣告 |
| 00:48:29,000 | 00:48:31,000 | 每位委員發言時間 |
| 00:48:31,000 | 00:48:35,000 | 本委員會六分鐘必要時延長兩分鐘 |
| 00:48:35,000 | 00:48:37,000 | 非本委員會的委員五分鐘 |
| 00:48:37,000 | 00:48:40,000 | 上午十點半截止發言登記 |
| 00:48:40,000 | 00:48:45,000 | 我們首先請登記第一位的洪育祥召委請做發言 |
| 00:48:54,000 | 00:48:56,000 | 好 謝謝主席 |
| 00:48:56,000 | 00:49:01,000 | 我們有請台糖跟經濟部 |
| 00:49:01,000 | 00:49:02,000 | 我們請兩位 |
| 00:49:07,000 | 00:49:08,000 | 好 |
| 00:49:08,000 | 00:49:09,000 | 召委早安 |
| 00:49:09,000 | 00:49:10,000 | 早 |
| 00:49:10,000 | 00:49:11,000 | 我想今天的話 |
| 00:49:11,000 | 00:49:13,000 | 我們安排這一個 |
| 00:49:13,000 | 00:49:15,000 | 其實中聯的油紙的事件 |
| 00:49:15,000 | 00:49:17,000 | 只是一個單一事件 |
| 00:49:17,000 | 00:49:19,000 | 那基本上我看的是 |
| 00:49:19,000 | 00:49:21,000 | 從審計部的一個報告 |
| 00:49:21,000 | 00:49:22,000 | 債權的不良 |
| 00:49:22,000 | 00:49:25,000 | 還有公司的經營的商業的模式 |
| 00:49:25,000 | 00:49:29,000 | 我覺得是台糖公司的整個公司的治理 |
| 00:49:29,000 | 00:49:31,000 | 跟他的內控 |
| 00:49:31,000 | 00:49:33,000 | 其實出現了一個問題 |
| 00:49:33,000 | 00:49:35,000 | 造成這個系統性的問題 |
| 00:49:35,000 | 00:49:38,000 | 造成這個系統性的一個崩壞 |
| 00:49:38,000 | 00:49:40,000 | 所以基本上的話 |
| 00:49:40,000 | 00:49:42,000 | 我們把它拱結幾個 |
| 00:49:42,000 | 00:49:44,000 | 第一個就是我們看到食安的風險 |
| 00:49:44,000 | 00:49:48,000 | 他到底台糖有沒有一個肩膀 |
| 00:49:48,000 | 00:49:50,000 | 可以是往上承報的 |
| 00:49:50,000 | 00:49:53,000 | 國家的債權是不是可以積極的追得回來 |
| 00:49:53,000 | 00:49:55,000 | 另外這個土地的造林 |
| 00:49:55,000 | 00:49:58,000 | 他根本就是一個年年申報合格 |
| 00:49:58,000 | 00:50:02,000 | 但審計部一查就是有很大的一個問題 |
| 00:50:02,000 | 00:50:04,000 | 所以我想把這幾件事情 |
| 00:50:04,000 | 00:50:07,000 | 綜合看成是一個公司的治理的問題 |
| 00:50:07,000 | 00:50:10,000 | 從中聯的這個油紙 |
| 00:50:10,000 | 00:50:14,000 | 我想在你們的報告裡頭講的都很清楚 |
| 00:50:14,000 | 00:50:16,000 | 但我覺得也避重就輕 |
| 00:50:16,000 | 00:50:19,000 | 因為按照台糖的說法 |
| 00:50:19,000 | 00:50:23,000 | 5月11號在中聯的311潮採樣 |
| 00:50:23,000 | 00:50:25,000 | 這個採樣的話 |
| 00:50:25,000 | 00:50:26,000 | 基本上就是不符合 |
| 00:50:26,000 | 00:50:29,000 | 也就是超標7倍的那個油潮 |
| 00:50:29,000 | 00:50:32,000 | 之後你們改採的是301 |
| 00:50:32,000 | 00:50:33,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:50:33,000 | 00:50:34,000 | 也沒有問題 |
| 00:50:34,000 | 00:50:36,000 | 然後進口到你台糖 |
| 00:50:36,000 | 00:50:39,000 | 再做成這個實用的一個油紙 |
| 00:50:39,000 | 00:50:41,000 | 但是在你們的報告就避重就輕 |
| 00:50:41,000 | 00:50:43,000 | 也就是我看不到311潮 |
| 00:50:43,000 | 00:50:45,000 | 我只看到301的油潮 |
| 00:50:45,000 | 00:50:46,000 | 那個是合格 |
| 00:50:46,000 | 00:50:49,000 | 那是你後來台糖公司再買的 |
| 00:50:49,000 | 00:50:51,000 | 我的問題就是說 |
| 00:50:51,000 | 00:50:55,000 | 基本上這個在5月15號 |
| 00:50:55,000 | 00:50:57,000 | 5月11號你們的採樣 |
| 00:50:57,000 | 00:50:59,000 | 15號拿到這樣子的報告之後 |
| 00:50:59,000 | 00:51:01,000 | 當然你們現在的說法 |
| 00:51:01,000 | 00:51:03,000 | 當然就是跟剛剛衛福部 |
| 00:51:03,000 | 00:51:05,000 | 江市長的說法一樣 |
| 00:51:05,000 | 00:51:08,000 | 這個東西就不列入 |
| 00:51:08,000 | 00:51:10,000 | 因為你規定的產品通報不同 |
| 00:51:10,000 | 00:51:12,000 | 跟食安法第七條第五項 |
| 00:51:12,000 | 00:51:14,000 | 但我覺得這個蠻嚴重的 |
| 00:51:14,000 | 00:51:17,000 | 因為第一個你311號的油潮 |
| 00:51:17,000 | 00:51:19,000 | 到底會不會流到其他的油潮 |
| 00:51:19,000 | 00:51:21,000 | 因為油潮 tank是pipe |
| 00:51:21,000 | 00:51:22,000 | 管線是相通的 |
| 00:51:22,000 | 00:51:24,000 | 所以這一塊的話 |
| 00:51:24,000 | 00:51:26,000 | 我想要請教一下的 |
| 00:51:26,000 | 00:51:30,000 | 就是台糖在你們的ESG的資料寫的 |
| 00:51:30,000 | 00:51:33,000 | 身為國營事業提供產品服務 |
| 00:51:33,000 | 00:51:36,000 | 你因為國內食品產業之典範 |
| 00:51:36,000 | 00:51:38,000 | 尤其在食品安全方面 |
| 00:51:38,000 | 00:51:41,000 | 更要發揮頂頭羊的角色 |
| 00:51:41,000 | 00:51:44,000 | 所以明知你有問題 |
| 00:51:44,000 | 00:51:45,000 | 沒有通報 |
| 00:51:45,000 | 00:51:47,000 | 甚至法律上沒有你就不通報 |
| 00:51:47,000 | 00:51:49,000 | 這我覺得違反你們公司 |
| 00:51:49,000 | 00:51:52,000 | ESG的宣稱的寫法 |
| 00:51:52,000 | 00:51:54,000 | 你有五部內頭羊 |
| 00:51:54,000 | 00:51:57,000 | 我想請教部長跟台糖的回應 |
| 00:51:58,000 | 00:52:01,000 | 我先來說明就是說 |
| 00:52:01,000 | 00:52:04,000 | 311的油潮檢驗它不合格 |
| 00:52:04,000 | 00:52:06,000 | 所以台南公司拒收 |
| 00:52:06,000 | 00:52:10,000 | 那後續怎麼樣處理這個311的油潮 |
| 00:52:10,000 | 00:52:12,000 | 事實上台南公司並沒有 |
| 00:52:12,000 | 00:52:16,000 | 因為那個是權力人士屬於中原公司的 |
| 00:52:16,000 | 00:52:18,000 | 所以他也沒有辦法去說 |
| 00:52:18,000 | 00:52:20,000 | 你到底要怎麼處理 |
| 00:52:20,000 | 00:52:22,000 | 但是事實上現在 |
| 00:52:22,000 | 00:52:24,000 | 據我了解311的油潮的油 |
| 00:52:24,000 | 00:52:26,000 | 事實上還在中原的油庫裡面 |
| 00:52:26,000 | 00:52:28,000 | 事實上是沒有賣出去的 |
| 00:52:28,000 | 00:52:31,000 | 所以台南公司基本上 |
| 00:52:31,000 | 00:52:34,000 | 他也沒有那個權力說 |
| 00:52:34,000 | 00:52:36,000 | 這批油到底要怎麼處理 |
| 00:52:36,000 | 00:52:38,000 | 它是不是有賣出來了 |
| 00:52:38,000 | 00:52:40,000 | 基本上它只是一個買賣 |
| 00:52:40,000 | 00:52:42,000 | 台糖這個檢驗 |
| 00:52:42,000 | 00:52:45,000 | 你這個5月11號的異常的通報 |
| 00:52:45,000 | 00:52:47,000 | 也就是5月15號你看到報告的時候 |
| 00:52:47,000 | 00:52:50,000 | 經濟部什麼時候知道這件事情 |
| 00:52:50,000 | 00:52:52,000 | 第一次知道這件事 |
| 00:52:53,000 | 00:52:57,000 | 事實上我們是7月28號才去這個 |
| 00:52:57,000 | 00:53:00,000 | 台南公司實地查核 |
| 00:53:00,000 | 00:53:03,000 | 所以是到7月28號 |
| 00:53:03,000 | 00:53:05,000 | 經濟部才去看 |
| 00:53:05,000 | 00:53:07,000 | 然後才知道有這件事情 |
| 00:53:07,000 | 00:53:09,000 | 對 因為基本上來講 |
| 00:53:09,000 | 00:53:11,000 | 台南公司報給我們都是合規 |
| 00:53:11,000 | 00:53:14,000 | 都是合標 |
| 00:53:14,000 | 00:53:16,000 | 32次的檢驗基本上 |
| 00:53:16,000 | 00:53:18,000 | 包括中央政府地方政府 |
| 00:53:18,000 | 00:53:19,000 | 還有他們自主檢驗 |
| 00:53:19,000 | 00:53:21,000 | 但是你去查的時候 |
| 00:53:21,000 | 00:53:23,000 | 是311潮的這個通報不合格 |
| 00:53:23,000 | 00:53:25,000 | 就是那個檢驗不合格 |
| 00:53:25,000 | 00:53:27,000 | 到7月28號才知道 |
| 00:53:27,000 | 00:53:29,000 | 他告訴我們實地的說明以後 |
| 00:53:29,000 | 00:53:31,000 | 我們才知道 |
| 00:53:31,000 | 00:53:33,000 | 台糖有沒有去跟衛福部說 |
| 00:53:33,000 | 00:53:35,000 | 有沒有去通報衛福部 |
| 00:53:35,000 | 00:53:37,000 | 是 跟委員報告 |
| 00:53:37,000 | 00:53:40,000 | 其實台南公司是用最嚴格的方式 |
| 00:53:40,000 | 00:53:41,000 | 沒有意思 要回答我 |
| 00:53:41,000 | 00:53:43,000 | 有沒有跟衛福部報告 |
| 00:53:43,000 | 00:53:44,000 | 不管公文或什麼東西 |
| 00:53:44,000 | 00:53:46,000 | 這個我們不會去報告 |
| 00:53:46,000 | 00:53:49,000 | 因為這個是我們採購驗收 |
| 00:53:49,000 | 00:53:51,000 | 等於說沒有通過驗收 |
| 00:53:51,000 | 00:53:52,000 | 他沒有合格 |
| 00:53:52,000 | 00:53:54,000 | 沒有合乎我們的採購規定 |
| 00:53:54,000 | 00:53:55,000 | 這樣子你覺得 |
| 00:53:55,000 | 00:53:57,000 | 符合你們食品領頭羊的角色 |
| 00:53:57,000 | 00:54:01,000 | 就現在目前的食安法規定 |
| 00:54:01,000 | 00:54:03,000 | 國一試驗 |
| 00:54:03,000 | 00:54:04,000 | 是 沒有錯 |
| 00:54:04,000 | 00:54:07,000 | 那一線線型的食安法的規定 |
| 00:54:07,000 | 00:54:10,000 | 所以食安法的規定是你的上限 |
| 00:54:10,000 | 00:54:11,000 | 不是你的底線 |
| 00:54:11,000 | 00:54:13,000 | 不是 原料他沒有規範 |
| 00:54:13,000 | 00:54:16,000 | 本瓶瓶的安全標準 |
| 00:54:16,000 | 00:54:18,000 | 所以他沒有所謂超標的問題 |
| 00:54:18,000 | 00:54:20,000 | 也沒有所謂的超標7倍的問題 |
| 00:54:20,000 | 00:54:24,000 | 好 我想請一下食藥署署長 |
| 00:54:24,000 | 00:54:28,000 | 我想就這個問題請教一下 |
| 00:54:28,000 | 00:54:30,000 | 因為說實在的 |
| 00:54:30,000 | 00:54:31,000 | 如果按照台糖的說法 |
| 00:54:31,000 | 00:54:32,000 | 你是不知道 |
| 00:54:32,000 | 00:54:34,000 | 那你什麼時候才知道這件事 |
| 00:54:34,000 | 00:54:37,000 | 因為針對中聯這個事件 |
| 00:54:37,000 | 00:54:38,000 | 我們7月1號 |
| 00:54:38,000 | 00:54:40,000 | 我們就台糖的這個 |
| 00:54:40,000 | 00:54:41,000 | 關起來 |
| 00:54:41,000 | 00:54:45,000 | 之後我們就陸陸續續進場去做調查 |
| 00:54:45,000 | 00:54:47,000 | 確切知道調查的時間 |
| 00:54:47,000 | 00:54:48,000 | 是在7月中的時候 |
| 00:54:48,000 | 00:54:50,000 | 我們看到一筆數字 |
| 00:54:50,000 | 00:54:52,000 | 這個數字裡面是台糖 |
| 00:54:52,000 | 00:54:54,000 | 所以一筆經濟部7月28號再早一點 |
| 00:54:54,000 | 00:54:55,000 | 知道台糖真的是 |
| 00:54:55,000 | 00:54:58,000 | 我想這件事情時間點上面 |
| 00:54:58,000 | 00:55:00,000 | 我們的時間點是這樣子知道 |
| 00:55:00,000 | 00:55:02,000 | 那經濟部知道的時間 |
| 00:55:02,000 | 00:55:03,000 | 我想就是可能 |
| 00:55:03,000 | 00:55:08,000 | 因為台糖這個是在地方的直轄市 |
| 00:55:08,000 | 00:55:10,000 | 可能會跟直轄市的指揮所說 |
| 00:55:10,000 | 00:55:12,000 | 所以直轄市台南市政府應該通報給你 |
| 00:55:12,000 | 00:55:13,000 | 應該是高雄 |
| 00:55:13,000 | 00:55:14,000 | 高雄 |
| 00:55:14,000 | 00:55:16,000 | 我們是7月中的時候知道這件事情 |
| 00:55:16,000 | 00:55:18,000 | 確切的時間是在這個時間 |
| 00:55:18,000 | 00:55:21,000 | 好 我想要問一下台糖還有食藥署 |
| 00:55:21,000 | 00:55:23,000 | 我們有食安雲 |
| 00:55:23,000 | 00:55:25,000 | 所以台糖的每一項食品的檢驗 |
| 00:55:25,000 | 00:55:26,000 | 都有像食安雲 |
| 00:55:26,000 | 00:55:28,000 | 衛福部是不是可以追溯得到 |
| 00:55:30,000 | 00:55:32,000 | 報委員這是一個很關鍵的 |
| 00:55:32,000 | 00:55:35,000 | 它是所謂整個製程中的 |
| 00:55:35,000 | 00:55:38,000 | 從黃豆開始到成品 |
| 00:55:38,000 | 00:55:42,000 | 其實它要通報的我們管的是2PPB是成品 |
| 00:55:42,000 | 00:55:44,000 | 它不是中間的 |
| 00:55:44,000 | 00:55:47,000 | 塗膠原油其實精煉之後 |
| 00:55:47,000 | 00:55:48,000 | 除了脫酸脫臭 |
| 00:55:48,000 | 00:55:52,000 | 跟我們的脫中和的 |
| 00:55:52,000 | 00:55:54,000 | 豬油是原物料 |
| 00:55:54,000 | 00:55:57,000 | 應該是說這個是指製程過程中的 |
| 00:55:57,000 | 00:56:00,000 | 一項中間產品 |
| 00:56:00,000 | 00:56:02,000 | 這中間產品不是不能吃的 |
| 00:56:02,000 | 00:56:06,000 | 又臭又酸然後顏色又混濁 |
| 00:56:06,000 | 00:56:07,000 | 不會是食品 |
| 00:56:07,000 | 00:56:10,000 | 也不會是成品要去管的 |
| 00:56:10,000 | 00:56:13,000 | 所以我們整個食品安全衛生管理法裡面 |
| 00:56:13,000 | 00:56:16,000 | 對於所謂的食品中的汙染物 |
| 00:56:16,000 | 00:56:18,000 | 以及它的毒素 |
| 00:56:18,000 | 00:56:21,000 | 我們都其實在管理裡面一個副表3 |
| 00:56:21,000 | 00:56:23,000 | 有關於BAP的說明 |
| 00:56:23,000 | 00:56:24,000 | 很清楚的我們可以知道 |
| 00:56:24,000 | 00:56:25,000 | 老百姓沒辦法接受 |
| 00:56:25,000 | 00:56:26,000 | 因為你最後 |
| 00:56:26,000 | 00:56:28,000 | 它不是成品 |
| 00:56:28,000 | 00:56:30,000 | 不是一個食安法管理 |
| 00:56:30,000 | 00:56:31,000 | 這是確確的 |
| 00:56:31,000 | 00:56:34,000 | 這個其實如果在所有的製程過程中 |
| 00:56:34,000 | 00:56:36,000 | 要去驗 |
| 00:56:36,000 | 00:56:38,000 | 食安法會修 |
| 00:56:38,000 | 00:56:40,000 | 它整體的下架 |
| 00:56:40,000 | 00:56:42,000 | 食安法修的時候會把這個動作 |
| 00:56:42,000 | 00:56:44,000 | 這個部分大家可以討論 |
| 00:56:44,000 | 00:56:45,000 | 我們講這一部分 |
| 00:56:45,000 | 00:56:47,000 | 其實大家共同討論在未來 |
| 00:56:47,000 | 00:56:48,000 | 謝謝 |
| 00:56:48,000 | 00:56:51,000 | 部長跟食物署署長請回 |
| 00:56:51,000 | 00:56:53,000 | 我想要請教一下台唐 |
| 00:56:53,000 | 00:56:57,000 | 在這個債權的問題 |
| 00:56:57,000 | 00:56:59,000 | 我們看審計部的報告 |
| 00:56:59,000 | 00:57:02,000 | 預期加催收欠款總共4億7391 |
| 00:57:02,000 | 00:57:05,000 | 催收款是4億7209 |
| 00:57:05,000 | 00:57:07,000 | 所以跟2013年第四季比較 |
| 00:57:07,000 | 00:57:10,000 | 催收款是從3億8232萬 |
| 00:57:10,000 | 00:57:13,000 | 到4億7209萬 |
| 00:57:13,000 | 00:57:17,000 | 一年增加8977萬催收款 |
| 00:57:17,000 | 00:57:18,000 | 在這裡頭的話 |
| 00:57:18,000 | 00:57:21,000 | 我覺得你這個成長幅度催收款太驚人了 |
| 00:57:21,000 | 00:57:23,000 | 我想問一下 |
| 00:57:23,000 | 00:57:25,000 | 有關於台唐的蔡副總理 |
| 00:57:25,000 | 00:57:29,000 | 知不知道在你這個催收款裡頭4億多 |
| 00:57:29,000 | 00:57:31,000 | 其中有沒有包含無奶人的案子 |
| 00:57:31,000 | 00:57:33,000 | 1億1796萬 |
| 00:57:33,000 | 00:57:36,000 | 1億1796萬的這一筆 |
| 00:57:36,000 | 00:57:38,000 | 是 那跟委員報告 |
| 00:57:38,000 | 00:57:40,000 | 我們的催收款裡頭 |
| 00:57:40,000 | 00:57:42,000 | 是有包括無奶人的這一項 |
| 00:57:42,000 | 00:57:44,000 | 是有包括嗎 |
| 00:57:44,000 | 00:57:45,000 | 有包包 |
| 00:57:45,000 | 00:57:46,000 | 那他現在還了多少 |
| 00:57:46,000 | 00:57:53,000 | 他已經還了金額3700多萬的樣子 |
| 00:57:53,000 | 00:57:54,000 | 我看一下數字 |
| 00:57:54,000 | 00:57:57,000 | 你們講公開追回只有700萬 |
| 00:57:57,000 | 00:58:00,000 | 我是講他的喔 |
| 00:58:00,000 | 00:58:02,000 | 不是其他四位債權人喔 |
| 00:58:02,000 | 00:58:07,000 | 750萬 |
| 00:58:07,000 | 00:58:09,000 | 750萬嘛對不對 |
| 00:58:09,000 | 00:58:11,000 | 你們公開宣稱700多萬 |
| 00:58:11,000 | 00:58:12,000 | 700多萬喔 |
| 00:58:12,000 | 00:58:16,000 | 所以1億1700多多少的話才700多 |
| 00:58:16,000 | 00:58:18,000 | 那我的問題是說 |
| 00:58:18,000 | 00:58:19,000 | 你們做得很好啊 |
| 00:58:19,000 | 00:58:21,000 | 你們去做的管收嘛 |
| 00:58:21,000 | 00:58:23,000 | 那管收之後 |
| 00:58:23,000 | 00:58:27,000 | 7月16號第一次協商沒有共識 |
| 00:58:27,000 | 00:58:28,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:58:28,000 | 00:58:30,000 | 你6月11才訂管收 |
| 00:58:30,000 | 00:58:33,000 | 22號台糖撤回管收申請 |
| 00:58:33,000 | 00:58:35,000 | 然後7月16號再協商 |
| 00:58:35,000 | 00:58:37,000 | 7月20號是你的期限有沒有 |
| 00:58:37,000 | 00:58:39,000 | 我想要知道的是 |
| 00:58:39,000 | 00:58:41,000 | 台糖撤回管收申請 |
| 00:58:41,000 | 00:58:43,000 | 這個決策誰決定的 |
| 00:58:43,000 | 00:58:44,000 | 誰授權的 |
| 00:58:44,000 | 00:58:47,000 | 法務單位總經理董事長 |
| 00:58:47,000 | 00:58:50,000 | 是 我們是有委託啦 |
| 00:58:50,000 | 00:58:52,000 | 委託律師來到 |
| 00:58:52,000 | 00:58:54,000 | 律師是委託 |
| 00:58:54,000 | 00:58:56,000 | 但是誰決定要撤回 |
| 00:58:56,000 | 00:58:59,000 | 是律師當場做成的決定 |
| 00:58:59,000 | 00:59:00,000 | 律師他有做決定 |
| 00:59:00,000 | 00:59:03,000 | 不用問當事人 不用問你們台糖 |
| 00:59:03,000 | 00:59:06,000 | 他是應法官的說明喔 |
| 00:59:06,000 | 00:59:07,000 | 你跟法官說明不要 |
| 00:59:07,000 | 00:59:10,000 | 法官是說你們台糖主動撤請 |
| 00:59:10,000 | 00:59:13,000 | 主動的一個撤回 |
| 00:59:17,000 | 00:59:18,000 | 各位委員報告喔 |
| 00:59:18,000 | 00:59:21,000 | 這個案子是我們的律師 |
| 00:59:21,000 | 00:59:23,000 | 就是這個代理人 |
| 00:59:23,000 | 00:59:26,000 | 在現場經法官詢問的時候 |
| 00:59:26,000 | 00:59:27,000 | 我們才答應的 |
| 00:59:27,000 | 00:59:29,000 | 所以一切都推給律師 |
| 00:59:29,000 | 00:59:30,000 | 不對啊 |
| 00:59:30,000 | 00:59:31,000 | 我們委託律師 |
| 00:59:31,000 | 00:59:33,000 | 律師還是會打電話回來問你 |
| 00:59:33,000 | 00:59:35,000 | 當時授權的時候 |
| 00:59:35,000 | 00:59:38,000 | 是有全權授權給這個代理人 |
| 00:59:41,000 | 00:59:43,000 | 這個實在是很扯 |
| 00:59:43,000 | 00:59:44,000 | 來 那我再問你 |
| 00:59:44,000 | 00:59:46,000 | 你撤回管收你換到了什麼 |
| 00:59:48,000 | 00:59:50,000 | 就是你要撤回管收總是有個理由 |
| 00:59:50,000 | 00:59:51,000 | 你換到什麼 |
| 00:59:51,000 | 00:59:53,000 | 換到他願意還錢 |
| 00:59:53,000 | 00:59:55,000 | 換到他願意新的擔保 |
| 00:59:55,000 | 00:59:58,000 | 還是新的什麼資產抵押等等 |
| 00:59:58,000 | 01:00:00,000 | 是各位委員報告 |
| 01:00:00,000 | 01:00:01,000 | 因為管收的目的 |
| 01:00:01,000 | 01:00:05,000 | 我們是希望債務人出來清場債務 |
| 01:00:05,000 | 01:00:07,000 | 那我們考量多了 |
| 01:00:07,000 | 01:00:08,000 | 如果一直關在裡頭 |
| 01:00:08,000 | 01:00:09,000 | 我們還是拿不到錢 |
| 01:00:09,000 | 01:00:11,000 | 如果他不來協商 |
| 01:00:11,000 | 01:00:13,000 | 那當場這個債務人的律師 |
| 01:00:13,000 | 01:00:14,000 | 委任律師有 |
| 01:00:14,000 | 01:00:15,000 | 你確定嗎 |
| 01:00:15,000 | 01:00:16,000 | 我的看法跟你不一樣 |
| 01:00:16,000 | 01:00:17,000 | 我覺得管收久一點 |
| 01:00:17,000 | 01:00:19,000 | 他就會主動還了 |
| 01:00:19,000 | 01:00:20,000 | 我們當然希望他還 |
| 01:00:20,000 | 01:00:21,000 | 你就管久一點 |
| 01:00:21,000 | 01:00:22,000 | 幹嘛撤回管收 |
| 01:00:22,000 | 01:00:24,000 | 撤回管收你換不到什麼 |
| 01:00:24,000 | 01:00:25,000 | 你沒有換不到什麼 |
| 01:00:25,000 | 01:00:27,000 | 國家上議員的債權 |
| 01:00:27,000 | 01:00:28,000 | 然後你只是說 |
| 01:00:28,000 | 01:00:30,000 | 我願意坐下來談就可以撤回 |
| 01:00:30,000 | 01:00:31,000 | 什麼東西都沒有 |
| 01:00:31,000 | 01:00:33,000 | 台壇可以接受 |
| 01:00:33,000 | 01:00:36,000 | 這在一般民間公司怎麼會接受 |
| 01:00:36,000 | 01:00:37,000 | 是各位委員報告 |
| 01:00:37,000 | 01:00:38,000 | 我們當然是 |
| 01:00:38,000 | 01:00:40,000 | 如果這個債務人沒有履行債務的話 |
| 01:00:40,000 | 01:00:43,000 | 我們當然還會再次申請管收 |
| 01:00:43,000 | 01:00:44,000 | 可是你再次申請管數 |
| 01:00:44,000 | 01:00:46,000 | 你的理由又要不同了 |
| 01:00:46,000 | 01:00:47,000 | 你要有新的管收原因 |
| 01:00:47,000 | 01:00:49,000 | 所以你下一次如果再申請管數 |
| 01:00:49,000 | 01:00:51,000 | 你新的管收原因是什麼 |
| 01:00:52,000 | 01:00:55,000 | 而且管收是在管收一次違憲 |
| 01:00:58,000 | 01:01:01,000 | 你們家的法務是這樣子的 |
| 01:01:01,000 | 01:01:02,000 | 報告委員 |
| 01:01:02,000 | 01:01:04,000 | 關於管收的次數不分 |
| 01:01:04,000 | 01:01:07,000 | 法律上沒有限制他的次數 |
| 01:01:07,000 | 01:01:09,000 | 所以如果只要符合管收的要件 |
| 01:01:09,000 | 01:01:10,000 | 還可以繼續申請管收 |
| 01:01:10,000 | 01:01:11,000 | 好那我問你好了 |
| 01:01:11,000 | 01:01:13,000 | 7月20號的話 |
| 01:01:13,000 | 01:01:15,000 | 他現在還是沒有達到共識 |
| 01:01:15,000 | 01:01:16,000 | 7月16號是第一次 |
| 01:01:16,000 | 01:01:17,000 | 20號說要再給你 |
| 01:01:17,000 | 01:01:19,000 | 現在的進度 |
| 01:01:20,000 | 01:01:23,000 | 報告委員那個進度可能 |
| 01:01:23,000 | 01:01:25,000 | 事後補給我 |
| 01:01:25,000 | 01:01:26,000 | 好再說給你 |
| 01:01:26,000 | 01:01:28,000 | 因為現在協商還在持續 |
| 01:01:28,000 | 01:01:29,000 | 全國都在看 |
| 01:01:29,000 | 01:01:31,000 | 這國家級的債權 |
| 01:01:33,000 | 01:01:36,000 | 是因為那個協商還在持續進展中 |
| 01:01:36,000 | 01:01:37,000 | 那我們覺得到時候 |
| 01:01:37,000 | 01:01:39,000 | 如果說等你告一個段落之後 |
| 01:01:39,000 | 01:01:40,000 | 不管結果怎麼樣 |
| 01:01:40,000 | 01:01:42,000 | 協商總是有個due date |
| 01:01:42,000 | 01:01:44,000 | 期限 |
| 01:01:44,000 | 01:01:45,000 | 因為期限的部分 |
| 01:01:45,000 | 01:01:47,000 | 我們要看他的協商的進展狀況 |
| 01:01:47,000 | 01:01:48,000 | 來做決定 |
| 01:01:48,000 | 01:01:49,000 | 所以還是沒辦法 |
| 01:01:49,000 | 01:01:51,000 | 所以我台東製造不成 |
| 01:01:51,000 | 01:01:53,000 | 我都缺錢免費就好了 |
| 01:01:53,000 | 01:01:56,000 | 以前的George Mary那個製造就免費 |
| 01:02:01,000 | 01:02:02,000 | 好這個你事後給我報告 |
| 01:02:02,000 | 01:02:04,000 | 我想要知道是你們這個 |
| 01:02:04,000 | 01:02:05,000 | 整個後續的進度 |
| 01:02:05,000 | 01:02:06,000 | 什麼時候可以催收回來 |
| 01:02:06,000 | 01:02:08,000 | 審計部也就在這邊 |
| 01:02:08,000 | 01:02:09,000 | 對不對 |
| 01:02:09,000 | 01:02:11,000 | 這也是很大的一個債權的問題 |
| 01:02:11,000 | 01:02:13,000 | 最後一個小問題 |
| 01:02:13,000 | 01:02:15,000 | 但我覺得這個問題是蠻嚴重的 |
| 01:02:15,000 | 01:02:16,000 | 也就是平地照領 |
| 01:02:16,000 | 01:02:18,000 | 照領補助的問題 |
| 01:02:18,000 | 01:02:20,000 | 在我們審計部的報告裡頭 |
| 01:02:20,000 | 01:02:21,000 | 林保署核定的輔助運機 |
| 01:02:21,000 | 01:02:23,000 | 在114年度 |
| 01:02:23,000 | 01:02:25,000 | 3531.95公頃 |
| 01:02:25,000 | 01:02:27,000 | 經費6000萬元 |
| 01:02:27,000 | 01:02:30,000 | 結果審計部請林保署用無人機航拍 |
| 01:02:30,000 | 01:02:33,000 | 再跟台唐的GIS土地清測比對 |
| 01:02:33,000 | 01:02:34,000 | 發現 |
| 01:02:34,000 | 01:02:35,000 | 無比土地 |
| 01:02:35,000 | 01:02:37,000 | 有的招站置土用多時方 |
| 01:02:37,000 | 01:02:39,000 | 有的這一置大量廢棄物 |
| 01:02:39,000 | 01:02:41,000 | 佔用耕作 |
| 01:02:41,000 | 01:02:43,000 | 林務理法省長沒有實際照領 |
| 01:02:43,000 | 01:02:44,000 | 然後你們台唐 |
| 01:02:44,000 | 01:02:46,000 | 121314 |
| 01:02:46,000 | 01:02:48,000 | 送給林保署的成果 |
| 01:02:48,000 | 01:02:49,000 | 都寫合格 |
| 01:02:49,000 | 01:02:50,000 | 持續 |
| 01:02:50,000 | 01:02:53,000 | 持續領取照領的補助 |
| 01:02:53,000 | 01:02:55,000 | 這是有造假詐欺 |
| 01:02:55,000 | 01:02:57,000 | 公務員不時登載的問題 |
| 01:02:58,000 | 01:02:59,000 | 再說明一下 |
| 01:02:59,000 | 01:03:00,000 | 是 |
| 01:03:00,000 | 01:03:02,000 | 我簡單的說明 |
| 01:03:02,000 | 01:03:04,000 | 就是我們平地照領的面積 |
| 01:03:04,000 | 01:03:06,000 | 其實講起來是非常大 |
| 01:03:06,000 | 01:03:07,000 | 沒有沒有 |
| 01:03:07,000 | 01:03:08,000 | 我現在就針對這無比 |
| 01:03:08,000 | 01:03:10,000 | 審計部點出來的這無比 |
| 01:03:10,000 | 01:03:12,000 | 這無比裡面 |
| 01:03:12,000 | 01:03:14,000 | 它也不是全部的面積 |
| 01:03:14,000 | 01:03:16,000 | 都有被請到 |
| 01:03:16,000 | 01:03:18,000 | 或者說被這個 |
| 01:03:18,000 | 01:03:20,000 | 你證明無比土地是耕作地 |
| 01:03:20,000 | 01:03:21,000 | 還是農地 |
| 01:03:21,000 | 01:03:22,000 | 還是山坡地 |
| 01:03:22,000 | 01:03:23,000 | 什麼等等 |
| 01:03:23,000 | 01:03:24,000 | 它是農業用地 |
| 01:03:24,000 | 01:03:25,000 | 農業用地 |
| 01:03:25,000 | 01:03:26,000 | 是 |
| 01:03:26,000 | 01:03:27,000 | 這個這個我就想要 |
| 01:03:27,000 | 01:03:28,000 | 隱吹一個問題 |
| 01:03:28,000 | 01:03:29,000 | 你們呢 |
| 01:03:29,000 | 01:03:30,000 | 還是要再給我 |
| 01:03:30,000 | 01:03:32,000 | 因為這個東西是不時的造假 |
| 01:03:32,000 | 01:03:33,000 | 這很嚴重 |
| 01:03:33,000 | 01:03:35,000 | 因為審計部都幫你標出來了 |
| 01:03:35,000 | 01:03:37,000 | 所以你們要回去好好測查一下 |
| 01:03:37,000 | 01:03:38,000 | 是 |
| 01:03:38,000 | 01:03:40,000 | 另外另外你剛回答很好 |
| 01:03:40,000 | 01:03:41,000 | 我也去查 |
| 01:03:41,000 | 01:03:42,000 | 就是農地 |
| 01:03:42,000 | 01:03:45,000 | 所以之前我在5月6號的話 |
| 01:03:45,000 | 01:03:48,000 | 我們在審農法部實行細緻條例的時候 |
| 01:03:48,000 | 01:03:50,000 | 這個執政黨的委員說 |
| 01:03:50,000 | 01:03:52,000 | 這個農法實施條例 |
| 01:03:52,000 | 01:03:54,000 | 地方自治規範有基礎 |
| 01:03:54,000 | 01:03:56,000 | 尚無致愛難行之處 |
| 01:03:56,000 | 01:03:57,000 | 不用在第十條之一 |
| 01:03:57,000 | 01:03:59,000 | 第九條也不支持 |
| 01:03:59,000 | 01:04:02,000 | 也就是說農地清到這些 |
| 01:04:02,000 | 01:04:04,000 | 廢棄物被人家占用 |
| 01:04:04,000 | 01:04:07,000 | 然後現行的農業部說不會 |
| 01:04:07,000 | 01:04:08,000 | 現在的方法就很好 |
| 01:04:08,000 | 01:04:10,000 | 可是台唐的一個國營試驗 |
| 01:04:10,000 | 01:04:11,000 | 然後土地被人家占用 |
| 01:04:11,000 | 01:04:13,000 | 被人家清到 |
| 01:04:13,000 | 01:04:14,000 | 你不覺得農法的土地的條例 |
| 01:04:14,000 | 01:04:17,000 | 應該使用在加日更高的刑罰跟罰則嗎 |
| 01:04:17,000 | 01:04:20,000 | 這對台唐是一個保障吧 |
| 01:04:22,000 | 01:04:23,000 | 是吧 |
| 01:04:23,000 | 01:04:24,000 | 應該是吧 |
| 01:04:24,000 | 01:04:25,000 | 是 |
| 01:04:25,000 | 01:04:28,000 | 好啦我相信今天 |
| 01:04:28,000 | 01:04:30,000 | 你們董事長跟總經理 |
| 01:04:30,000 | 01:04:32,000 | 就藉由出國就不在了 |
| 01:04:32,000 | 01:04:34,000 | 所以你也算可憐的帶打 |
| 01:04:34,000 | 01:04:36,000 | 那後續 |
| 01:04:36,000 | 01:04:38,000 | 我希望你們把這些的報告 |
| 01:04:38,000 | 01:04:40,000 | 大概都交給我 |
| 01:04:40,000 | 01:04:42,000 | 第一個就是債權跟無法人等等 |
| 01:04:42,000 | 01:04:44,000 | 以及你們其他債權不良的 |
| 01:04:44,000 | 01:04:46,000 | 催收的一個機制 |
| 01:04:46,000 | 01:04:48,000 | 那你後續這個案子會怎麼進行 |
| 01:04:48,000 | 01:04:50,000 | 這個給我一個書面報告 |
| 01:04:50,000 | 01:04:52,000 | 第二個我建議台唐 |
| 01:04:52,000 | 01:04:54,000 | 不管你是出遊 |
| 01:04:54,000 | 01:04:57,000 | 只要你是用到食用的部分 |
| 01:04:57,000 | 01:04:59,000 | 因為你們還有肉鬆 |
| 01:04:59,000 | 01:05:00,000 | 對不對 |
| 01:05:00,000 | 01:05:01,000 | 有糖 |
| 01:05:01,000 | 01:05:03,000 | 還有肉製品等等一堆 |
| 01:05:03,000 | 01:05:04,000 | 所以你們整個東西到底 |
| 01:05:04,000 | 01:05:08,000 | 有沒有確實從聯合料到這裡頭的審驗 |
| 01:05:08,000 | 01:05:11,000 | 然後同時要確實上食安雲的 |
| 01:05:11,000 | 01:05:14,000 | 然後同時你要建立跟經濟部 |
| 01:05:14,000 | 01:05:16,000 | 跟衛福部的即時的通報系統 |
| 01:05:16,000 | 01:05:18,000 | 麻煩這個 |
| 01:05:18,000 | 01:05:20,000 | 我不要苛責你 |
| 01:05:20,000 | 01:05:23,000 | 兩個月內給我這樣子的一個機制規劃報告 |
| 01:05:23,000 | 01:05:26,000 | 去防堵未來的這一件的事情好不好 |
| 01:05:26,000 | 01:05:27,000 | 謝謝 |
| 01:05:27,000 | 01:05:28,000 | 謝謝 |
| 01:05:30,000 | 01:05:33,000 | 好謝謝黃昭偉的質詢 |
| 01:05:34,000 | 01:05:35,000 | 好 |
| 01:05:43,000 | 01:05:44,000 | 好 |
| 01:05:44,000 | 01:05:47,000 | 請問各位同仁上次會議事務有無錯誤 |
| 01:05:47,000 | 01:05:48,000 | 無錯誤 |
| 01:05:48,000 | 01:05:49,000 | 議事錄確定 |
| 01:05:49,000 | 01:05:53,000 | 那接下來我們請這個楊瓊英委員質詢 |
| 01:06:04,000 | 01:06:06,000 | 謝謝主席楊瓊發言 |
| 01:06:06,000 | 01:06:10,000 | 首先邀請部長跟台糖公司 |
| 01:06:10,000 | 01:06:12,000 | 來有請部長跟台糖 |
| 01:06:16,000 | 01:06:17,000 | 楊委員早安 |
| 01:06:17,000 | 01:06:18,000 | 部長好 |
| 01:06:18,000 | 01:06:23,000 | 我想我們今天主要是針對於國營事業的這個食安防線 |
| 01:06:23,000 | 01:06:26,000 | 跟法規的漏洞的一個總檢討 |
| 01:06:26,000 | 01:06:28,000 | 那終於由此本部長 |
| 01:06:28,000 | 01:06:33,000 | 在今天主要是針對國營事業的食安防線 |
| 01:06:33,000 | 01:06:35,000 | 那終於由此本篇筆 |
| 01:06:35,000 | 01:06:39,000 | 在這一次超標案件爆發之後 |
| 01:06:39,000 | 01:06:45,000 | 究竟是誰讓一級的這個致癌物在供應鏈中隱形 |
| 01:06:45,000 | 01:06:47,000 | 那在開始質詢之前 |
| 01:06:47,000 | 01:06:49,000 | 我想首先要請教兩位 |
| 01:06:49,000 | 01:06:56,000 | 面對這一次引發我們全台的這個恐慌的重大食安的危機 |
| 01:06:56,000 | 01:06:57,000 | 那兩位認為 |
| 01:06:57,000 | 01:06:59,000 | 國營事業在其中 |
| 01:06:59,000 | 01:07:07,000 | 到底有沒有應該要主動的監督與通報的責任 |
| 01:07:07,000 | 01:07:08,000 | 請教部長 |
| 01:07:09,000 | 01:07:13,000 | 報委員我覺得所有的公務員都是依法行政 |
| 01:07:13,000 | 01:07:15,000 | 按規定來辦理 |
| 01:07:15,000 | 01:07:17,000 | 那台糖公司已經 |
| 01:07:17,000 | 01:07:19,000 | 他是有依法行政 |
| 01:07:19,000 | 01:07:21,000 | 最主要就是 |
| 01:07:21,000 | 01:07:25,000 | 所以到底他應不應該要主動通報呢 |
| 01:07:25,000 | 01:07:28,000 | 你經濟部也應該要全面監督啊 |
| 01:07:28,000 | 01:07:29,000 | 是報委員 |
| 01:07:29,000 | 01:07:31,000 | 你認為需不需要 |
| 01:07:31,000 | 01:07:32,000 | 你只要回答我需不需要就好 |
| 01:07:32,000 | 01:07:33,000 | 我之前已經有說明 |
| 01:07:33,000 | 01:07:35,000 | 因為那個311的油潮 |
| 01:07:35,000 | 01:07:37,000 | 請教需不需要請告訴我 |
| 01:07:37,000 | 01:07:41,000 | 因為這個311油潮的油的所有人 |
| 01:07:41,000 | 01:07:42,000 | 出油的所有人 |
| 01:07:42,000 | 01:07:43,000 | 他是中聯 |
| 01:07:43,000 | 01:07:47,000 | 所以中聯事後要怎麼處置是311的油 |
| 01:07:47,000 | 01:07:49,000 | 事實上是他來決定 |
| 01:07:49,000 | 01:07:51,000 | 部長請針對本席的提問 |
| 01:07:51,000 | 01:07:54,000 | 請問你經濟部的立場 |
| 01:07:54,000 | 01:07:56,000 | 是不是應該要全面監督 |
| 01:07:56,000 | 01:07:59,000 | 台糖也應該要主動的通報 |
| 01:07:59,000 | 01:08:00,000 | 是不是需要 |
| 01:08:00,000 | 01:08:01,000 | 本席只要問這個 |
| 01:08:01,000 | 01:08:04,000 | 如果依法要通報就通報 |
| 01:08:04,000 | 01:08:06,000 | 如果依法沒有那個通報的義務 |
| 01:08:06,000 | 01:08:08,000 | 那也不一定要通報 |
| 01:08:08,000 | 01:08:10,000 | 這是你的回答 |
| 01:08:10,000 | 01:08:11,000 | 來請教台糖 |
| 01:08:13,000 | 01:08:14,000 | 請台糖 |
| 01:08:14,000 | 01:08:15,000 | 委員好 |
| 01:08:15,000 | 01:08:16,000 | 請問 |
| 01:08:16,000 | 01:08:17,000 | 剛剛的題目 |
| 01:08:17,000 | 01:08:20,000 | 你認為台糖在發現5月15號 |
| 01:08:20,000 | 01:08:23,000 | 拿到的結果是超標的7倍 |
| 01:08:23,000 | 01:08:28,000 | 14點多的PPB本篇比 |
| 01:08:28,000 | 01:08:31,000 | 你認為需不需要通報 |
| 01:08:31,000 | 01:08:33,000 | 你需不需要通報 |
| 01:08:33,000 | 01:08:34,000 | 是 跟委員報告 |
| 01:08:34,000 | 01:08:37,000 | 我剛才也有清楚的表達 |
| 01:08:37,000 | 01:08:39,000 | 其實本篇比的標準 |
| 01:08:39,000 | 01:08:41,000 | 它是在使用油上面 |
| 01:08:41,000 | 01:08:44,000 | 請教針對本席的提問 |
| 01:08:44,000 | 01:08:47,000 | 你有沒有通報給經濟部 |
| 01:08:47,000 | 01:08:48,000 | 沒有 |
| 01:08:48,000 | 01:08:49,000 | 好 |
| 01:08:49,000 | 01:08:50,000 | 那麼你們在5月份的時候 |
| 01:08:50,000 | 01:08:53,000 | 就已經拿到了這一份的檢驗報告 |
| 01:08:53,000 | 01:08:55,000 | 那也明知道這是確認 |
| 01:08:55,000 | 01:08:59,000 | 這一批的油品是含有劇毒的致癌物 |
| 01:08:59,000 | 01:09:02,000 | 5月到7月整整兩個月 |
| 01:09:02,000 | 01:09:04,000 | 我們台糖是大廠 |
| 01:09:04,000 | 01:09:06,000 | 作為國藝事業 |
| 01:09:06,000 | 01:09:08,000 | 為什麼你選擇知情不報呢 |
| 01:09:08,000 | 01:09:09,000 | 為什麼 |
| 01:09:10,000 | 01:09:13,000 | 它不在我們現行的食安法 |
| 01:09:13,000 | 01:09:15,000 | 通報的範圍之內 |
| 01:09:15,000 | 01:09:16,000 | 好 這是你的回答 |
| 01:09:16,000 | 01:09:17,000 | 經濟部 |
| 01:09:17,000 | 01:09:19,000 | 你作為主管機關單位 |
| 01:09:19,000 | 01:09:21,000 | 其實有沒有人會知道 |
| 01:09:21,000 | 01:09:23,000 | 台糖的這個事件呢 |
| 01:09:23,000 | 01:09:25,000 | 有沒有 經濟部 |
| 01:09:25,000 | 01:09:26,000 | 有沒有 |
| 01:09:26,000 | 01:09:27,000 | 沒有 |
| 01:09:27,000 | 01:09:28,000 | 所以你是不知道的嘛 |
| 01:09:28,000 | 01:09:31,000 | 所以從台糖的5月15號 |
| 01:09:31,000 | 01:09:34,000 | 得知了這個14.7PPP的時候 |
| 01:09:34,000 | 01:09:37,000 | 到什麼時候我們經濟部才知道 |
| 01:09:37,000 | 01:09:39,000 | 幾月幾號才知道 |
| 01:09:39,000 | 01:09:40,000 | 7月以後 |
| 01:09:40,000 | 01:09:43,000 | 我們去7月以後 |
| 01:09:43,000 | 01:09:45,000 | 7月以後是什麼時候 |
| 01:09:45,000 | 01:09:47,000 | 7月以後經濟部才知道 |
| 01:09:47,000 | 01:09:48,000 | 對 |
| 01:09:48,000 | 01:09:49,000 | 7月28號 |
| 01:09:49,000 | 01:09:50,000 | 是嗎 |
| 01:09:50,000 | 01:09:51,000 | 是啊 7月以後才知道 |
| 01:09:51,000 | 01:09:53,000 | 你7月以後才知道 |
| 01:09:53,000 | 01:09:54,000 | 好 部長 |
| 01:09:54,000 | 01:09:56,000 | 民間的親人南僑 |
| 01:09:56,000 | 01:10:00,000 | 他主動吹哨都要配罰300萬 |
| 01:10:00,000 | 01:10:02,000 | 我們台糖是國藝事業單位 |
| 01:10:02,000 | 01:10:06,000 | 是全國全體國民非常信任的 |
| 01:10:06,000 | 01:10:08,000 | 那當你發現了 |
| 01:10:08,000 | 01:10:11,000 | 有這麼嚴重的致癌物的時候 |
| 01:10:11,000 | 01:10:12,000 | 你只有說 |
| 01:10:12,000 | 01:10:13,000 | 我去收 |
| 01:10:13,000 | 01:10:14,000 | 我不買了 |
| 01:10:14,000 | 01:10:17,000 | 你讓這些的有毒的油品 |
| 01:10:17,000 | 01:10:20,000 | 繼續留在這個供應鏈裡頭 |
| 01:10:20,000 | 01:10:25,000 | 如果不是檢調跟衛福單位 |
| 01:10:25,000 | 01:10:27,000 | 全面的清查 |
| 01:10:27,000 | 01:10:29,000 | 那這些原料是不是還是 |
| 01:10:29,000 | 01:10:32,000 | 會任由在下游的這個業者裡頭 |
| 01:10:32,000 | 01:10:34,000 | 吃下肚呢 |
| 01:10:34,000 | 01:10:36,000 | 那這叫什麼食安把關啊 |
| 01:10:36,000 | 01:10:37,000 | 沒有啊 |
| 01:10:37,000 | 01:10:38,000 | 311的這個油潮的油 |
| 01:10:38,000 | 01:10:39,000 | 現在還在中聯那邊 |
| 01:10:39,000 | 01:10:40,000 | 它沒有出來 |
| 01:10:40,000 | 01:10:43,000 | 所以就是台灣公司給他警告以後 |
| 01:10:43,000 | 01:10:45,000 | 事實上這一批油它沒有出來 |
| 01:10:45,000 | 01:10:47,000 | 出來是其他批的油 |
| 01:10:47,000 | 01:10:50,000 | 那其他批的油跟台糖沒有關係 |
| 01:10:50,000 | 01:10:54,000 | 部長請針對問題回答 |
| 01:10:54,000 | 01:10:56,000 | 造成了這麼大的風暴 |
| 01:10:56,000 | 01:10:59,000 | 我們應該要去看怎麼樣去檢討 |
| 01:10:59,000 | 01:11:00,000 | 去改進 |
| 01:11:00,000 | 01:11:03,000 | 讓這個事件不要再發生 |
| 01:11:03,000 | 01:11:05,000 | 因為食安是底線 |
| 01:11:05,000 | 01:11:08,000 | 所以在這裡本席要再一次的請教 |
| 01:11:08,000 | 01:11:10,000 | 民間他發現 |
| 01:11:10,000 | 01:11:12,000 | 有劇毒的原料的時候 |
| 01:11:12,000 | 01:11:13,000 | 原料的時候 |
| 01:11:13,000 | 01:11:15,000 | 他依規定要這個 |
| 01:11:15,000 | 01:11:17,000 | 啟動吹哨者機制 |
| 01:11:17,000 | 01:11:19,000 | 並且要通報 |
| 01:11:19,000 | 01:11:20,000 | 並且要通報 |
| 01:11:20,000 | 01:11:22,000 | 那反觀我們 |
| 01:11:22,000 | 01:11:25,000 | 全國最新來的國營事業台糖 |
| 01:11:25,000 | 01:11:27,000 | 現在是默默退了貨 |
| 01:11:27,000 | 01:11:29,000 | 至少門前雪 |
| 01:11:29,000 | 01:11:31,000 | 所以在這樣的情況之下 |
| 01:11:31,000 | 01:11:33,000 | 本席要請教 |
| 01:11:33,000 | 01:11:38,000 | 台糖你不受食安法的一個規範嗎 |
| 01:11:38,000 | 01:11:39,000 | 報告委員 |
| 01:11:39,000 | 01:11:41,000 | 現在目前你們只有說 |
| 01:11:41,000 | 01:11:43,000 | 法規沒有強制要報 |
| 01:11:43,000 | 01:11:45,000 | 你們現在就用這個藉口 |
| 01:11:45,000 | 01:11:47,000 | 還要再用這個藉口嗎 |
| 01:11:47,000 | 01:11:49,000 | 已經這麼大的一個風暴 |
| 01:11:49,000 | 01:11:51,000 | 你有沒有受食安法的規範 |
| 01:11:51,000 | 01:11:54,000 | 如果說今天台糖公司買的是食用油 |
| 01:11:54,000 | 01:11:55,000 | 超標 |
| 01:11:55,000 | 01:11:57,000 | 台糖公司一定會通報 |
| 01:11:57,000 | 01:11:58,000 | 請教台糖 |
| 01:11:58,000 | 01:12:01,000 | 你們有沒有受食安法的一個規範 |
| 01:12:01,000 | 01:12:02,000 | 有 |
| 01:12:02,000 | 01:12:03,000 | 你們有嗎 |
| 01:12:03,000 | 01:12:04,000 | 好 |
| 01:12:04,000 | 01:12:07,000 | 面對這個原料辦成品的這個部分 |
| 01:12:07,000 | 01:12:10,000 | 未收入的這個脫膠的出油 |
| 01:12:10,000 | 01:12:13,000 | 進行食安法第七條第五項 |
| 01:12:13,000 | 01:12:16,000 | 它規範產品需主動通報 |
| 01:12:16,000 | 01:12:19,000 | 但是這個也因為這樣子的一個文字 |
| 01:12:19,000 | 01:12:24,000 | 成為經濟部跟衛福部的免責附身符 |
| 01:12:24,000 | 01:12:25,000 | 你呢 |
| 01:12:25,000 | 01:12:26,000 | 你聽清楚 |
| 01:12:26,000 | 01:12:29,000 | 讓法律文字的灰色地帶成了 |
| 01:12:29,000 | 01:12:32,000 | 一級致癌物的防火牆 |
| 01:12:32,000 | 01:12:35,000 | 郭前的現況是如此 |
| 01:12:35,000 | 01:12:36,000 | 那現在 |
| 01:12:36,000 | 01:12:39,000 | 衛福部已經說 |
| 01:12:39,000 | 01:12:40,000 | 他已經預告 |
| 01:12:40,000 | 01:12:44,000 | 要未來將修法納入強制通報 |
| 01:12:44,000 | 01:12:46,000 | 這也表示了目前的法規 |
| 01:12:46,000 | 01:12:49,000 | 它是千瘡百孔 |
| 01:12:49,000 | 01:12:51,000 | 所以在這樣的一個情況之下 |
| 01:12:51,000 | 01:12:53,000 | 等一下請教 |
| 01:12:53,000 | 01:12:55,000 | 在修法的空窗期 |
| 01:12:55,000 | 01:12:57,000 | 民間企業它是存在 |
| 01:12:57,000 | 01:13:00,000 | 合法部通報的一個現象 |
| 01:13:00,000 | 01:13:02,000 | 那政府你也無從 |
| 01:13:02,000 | 01:13:05,000 | 無從知道每一次的檢驗詳情 |
| 01:13:05,000 | 01:13:09,000 | 但是我們台糖是國營事業黨委 |
| 01:13:09,000 | 01:13:10,000 | 我們應該要遵守法律 |
| 01:13:10,000 | 01:13:11,000 | 要主動通報 |
| 01:13:11,000 | 01:13:13,000 | 要作為守法的表率 |
| 01:13:13,000 | 01:13:14,000 | 對不對 |
| 01:13:14,000 | 01:13:16,000 | 台糖對不對 |
| 01:13:16,000 | 01:13:19,000 | 是不是應該作為守法的表率 |
| 01:13:19,000 | 01:13:20,000 | 對不對 |
| 01:13:20,000 | 01:13:21,000 | 當然 |
| 01:13:21,000 | 01:13:22,000 | 那現在 |
| 01:13:22,000 | 01:13:24,000 | 我們是打臉政府的臉 |
| 01:13:24,000 | 01:13:25,000 | 沒有 |
| 01:13:25,000 | 01:13:26,000 | 因為 |
| 01:13:26,000 | 01:13:28,000 | 藐視了政府的立法 |
| 01:13:28,000 | 01:13:29,000 | 的立法 |
| 01:13:29,000 | 01:13:33,000 | 至今沒有依法主動通報 |
| 01:13:33,000 | 01:13:35,000 | 那我們要求民間一定要做到 |
| 01:13:35,000 | 01:13:38,000 | 這個標準太奇怪了吧 |
| 01:13:38,000 | 01:13:40,000 | 我跟委員報告 |
| 01:13:40,000 | 01:13:42,000 | 我們買的是原料油 |
| 01:13:42,000 | 01:13:44,000 | 原料油這個粗油 |
| 01:13:44,000 | 01:13:46,000 | 它是可以經過精煉之後 |
| 01:13:46,000 | 01:13:48,000 | 把本田皮拿掉 |
| 01:13:48,000 | 01:13:49,000 | 大部分 |
| 01:13:49,000 | 01:13:50,000 | 好 |
| 01:13:50,000 | 01:13:52,000 | 經濟部長跟衛福部 |
| 01:13:52,000 | 01:13:53,000 | 衛福部在這裡 |
| 01:13:53,000 | 01:13:55,000 | 那個署長一起上 |
| 01:13:55,000 | 01:13:56,000 | 謝謝 |
| 01:13:56,000 | 01:13:57,000 | 你們看 |
| 01:13:57,000 | 01:13:59,000 | 你們看 |
| 01:13:59,000 | 01:14:02,000 | 第113年3月11號召開的 |
| 01:14:02,000 | 01:14:06,000 | 食品業者自主管理說明會的 |
| 01:14:06,000 | 01:14:08,000 | 官方公告內容 |
| 01:14:08,000 | 01:14:09,000 | 第三點 |
| 01:14:09,000 | 01:14:10,000 | 白澤寫的 |
| 01:14:10,000 | 01:14:12,000 | 寫得非常的清楚 |
| 01:14:12,000 | 01:14:15,000 | 食品業者於發現原油或者是產品 |
| 01:14:15,000 | 01:14:18,000 | 有危害衛生安全之餘 |
| 01:14:18,000 | 01:14:21,000 | 應主動停止製造加工 |
| 01:14:21,000 | 01:14:23,000 | 販賣及辦理回收 |
| 01:14:23,000 | 01:14:26,000 | 並通報直屬機關單位 |
| 01:14:26,000 | 01:14:27,000 | 主管單位 |
| 01:14:27,000 | 01:14:28,000 | 違法者 |
| 01:14:28,000 | 01:14:31,000 | 必須要依食安法的第47條 |
| 01:14:31,000 | 01:14:32,000 | 第二款 |
| 01:14:32,000 | 01:14:34,000 | 處新台幣3萬元以上 |
| 01:14:34,000 | 01:14:37,000 | 300萬元以下的還款 |
| 01:14:37,000 | 01:14:38,000 | 部長 |
| 01:14:38,000 | 01:14:42,000 | 這裡寫得這麼清楚 |
| 01:14:42,000 | 01:14:45,000 | 我想聽聽您的說法 |
| 01:14:45,000 | 01:14:46,000 | 報告委員 |
| 01:14:46,000 | 01:14:47,000 | 我剛才講過了 |
| 01:14:47,000 | 01:14:50,000 | 311那個油槽的油並沒有流到市面 |
| 01:14:50,000 | 01:14:52,000 | 而且它是一個粗油 |
| 01:14:52,000 | 01:14:55,000 | 它也不是一個食品安全規範的犯法 |
| 01:14:55,000 | 01:14:59,000 | 你又是繞在文字的一個漏洞 |
| 01:14:59,000 | 01:15:00,000 | 所以部長 |
| 01:15:00,000 | 01:15:03,000 | 我們應該要正式的面對 |
| 01:15:03,000 | 01:15:04,000 | 這樣子的一個問題 |
| 01:15:04,000 | 01:15:07,000 | 因為這才是我們要的 |
| 01:15:07,000 | 01:15:09,000 | 這才是人民要的 |
| 01:15:09,000 | 01:15:11,000 | 到目前為止這麼多時間 |
| 01:15:11,000 | 01:15:13,000 | 我們還不清不楚 |
| 01:15:13,000 | 01:15:16,000 | 後續如果食安法修正 |
| 01:15:16,000 | 01:15:17,000 | 大院通過的話 |
| 01:15:17,000 | 01:15:19,000 | 我們當然是依法辦理 |
| 01:15:19,000 | 01:15:20,000 | 依法遵守 |
| 01:15:20,000 | 01:15:23,000 | 113年的公告已經明明白白 |
| 01:15:23,000 | 01:15:26,000 | 白澤寫的那麼清楚 |
| 01:15:26,000 | 01:15:27,000 | 所以 |
| 01:15:27,000 | 01:15:29,000 | 來 部長 |
| 01:15:29,000 | 01:15:31,000 | 本來要跟你討論的 |
| 01:15:31,000 | 01:15:34,000 | 民眾到現在為止 |
| 01:15:34,000 | 01:15:37,000 | 你能夠協助民眾什麼 |
| 01:15:37,000 | 01:15:39,000 | 我們首先來請教 |
| 01:15:39,000 | 01:15:42,000 | 這絕對不是一個單一事件 |
| 01:15:42,000 | 01:15:45,000 | 政府的無能民眾就無奈 |
| 01:15:45,000 | 01:15:47,000 | 所以在這樣的情況之下 |
| 01:15:47,000 | 01:15:49,000 | 我們國家食安防線的全面失守 |
| 01:15:49,000 | 01:15:51,000 | 那你現在 |
| 01:15:51,000 | 01:15:52,000 | 你說只有管產品 |
| 01:15:52,000 | 01:15:54,000 | 你不管原料 |
| 01:15:54,000 | 01:15:57,000 | 你等於是在整個法規的鍛煉 |
| 01:15:57,000 | 01:15:59,000 | 台湯知情不報 |
| 01:15:59,000 | 01:16:03,000 | 你又作為台湯的律師在做辯護 |
| 01:16:03,000 | 01:16:05,000 | 這個是行政帶動 |
| 01:16:05,000 | 01:16:07,000 | 接下來我們要看 |
| 01:16:07,000 | 01:16:10,000 | 違法者的業者能夠出席 |
| 01:16:10,000 | 01:16:15,000 | 下架標準的會議的決策 |
| 01:16:18,000 | 01:16:20,000 | 這等於是決策的一個人 |
| 01:16:20,000 | 01:16:22,000 | 所以部長 |
| 01:16:22,000 | 01:16:24,000 | 台湯跟食安署在這裡 |
| 01:16:24,000 | 01:16:25,000 | 衛福部在這裡 |
| 01:16:25,000 | 01:16:29,000 | 供應鍛煉這個訊息 |
| 01:16:29,000 | 01:16:32,000 | 以及主管機關的一個卸責 |
| 01:16:32,000 | 01:16:34,000 | 那利益迴避的失靈 |
| 01:16:34,000 | 01:16:37,000 | 那等於是我們系統性的崩潰 |
| 01:16:37,000 | 01:16:39,000 | 所以經濟部更離譜的 |
| 01:16:39,000 | 01:16:41,000 | 把這樣的事件 |
| 01:16:41,000 | 01:16:43,000 | 是誰這麼天才 |
| 01:16:43,000 | 01:16:47,000 | 把它比造成是去菜市場買菜 |
| 01:16:47,000 | 01:16:52,000 | 買菜不會去向市場去報告 |
| 01:16:52,000 | 01:16:55,000 | 這個葉子爛掉 |
| 01:16:55,000 | 01:16:57,000 | 這是誰這麼天才 |
| 01:16:57,000 | 01:17:01,000 | 你把我們整個國家食安當兒戲 |
| 01:17:01,000 | 01:17:05,000 | 異己自來誤竟然有這樣的回覆 |
| 01:17:05,000 | 01:17:08,000 | 給社會大眾看笑話 |
| 01:17:08,000 | 01:17:11,000 | 部長誰這麼天才 |
| 01:17:11,000 | 01:17:14,000 | 是把食安當成不一回事嗎 |
| 01:17:14,000 | 01:17:17,000 | 還是在經濟部認為是沒事的 |
| 01:17:17,000 | 01:17:20,000 | 怎麼會比您這樣子呢 |
| 01:17:20,000 | 01:17:23,000 | 你覺得這個比您適當嗎 |
| 01:17:23,000 | 01:17:25,000 | 請教部長 |
| 01:17:25,000 | 01:17:28,000 | 台湯公司依法行政 |
| 01:17:28,000 | 01:17:30,000 | 所有的守法的公務人員 |
| 01:17:30,000 | 01:17:32,000 | 經濟部有這個責任 |
| 01:17:32,000 | 01:17:35,000 | 要保護這些守法的公務人員 |
| 01:17:35,000 | 01:17:37,000 | 你要不要保護我們的食安 |
| 01:17:37,000 | 01:17:39,000 | 當然我們是依法 |
| 01:17:39,000 | 01:17:41,000 | 你認為你們把經濟部 |
| 01:17:41,000 | 01:17:44,000 | 把食安這麼嚴肅的議題 |
| 01:17:44,000 | 01:17:47,000 | 你把它比你菜市場買菜 |
| 01:17:47,000 | 01:17:49,000 | 你覺得這個適當嗎 |
| 01:17:49,000 | 01:17:51,000 | 剛剛已經說明了 |
| 01:17:51,000 | 01:17:53,000 | 請教你認為這個適當嗎 |
| 01:17:53,000 | 01:17:56,000 | 請教你這個經濟部的回應 |
| 01:17:56,000 | 01:17:59,000 | 給社會大眾你認為這個是適當嗎 |
| 01:17:59,000 | 01:18:01,000 | 沒有這只是一個比喻 |
| 01:18:01,000 | 01:18:03,000 | 你認為適不適當沒關係 |
| 01:18:03,000 | 01:18:06,000 | 吃過了你認為適不適當 |
| 01:18:06,000 | 01:18:08,000 | 如果委員覺得不恰當的話 |
| 01:18:08,000 | 01:18:10,000 | 那我也尊重委員的 |
| 01:18:10,000 | 01:18:12,000 | 不是我認為是你不能反質詢 |
| 01:18:12,000 | 01:18:15,000 | 請問你認為這樣子的比喻適當嗎 |
| 01:18:15,000 | 01:18:17,000 | 我尊重委員的說法 |
| 01:18:17,000 | 01:18:19,000 | 你認為適當嗎 |
| 01:18:19,000 | 01:18:21,000 | 本席請回答 |
| 01:18:21,000 | 01:18:23,000 | 如果委員覺得不適當的話 |
| 01:18:23,000 | 01:18:25,000 | 我尊重委員的說法 |
| 01:18:25,000 | 01:18:27,000 | 我認為不適當你認為是不是不適當 |
| 01:18:27,000 | 01:18:29,000 | 所以我就尊重委員 |
| 01:18:29,000 | 01:18:31,000 | 最後本席要請教 |
| 01:18:31,000 | 01:18:33,000 | 剛剛也報告了 |
| 01:18:33,000 | 01:18:35,000 | 我們的消費者要怎麼辦 |
| 01:18:35,000 | 01:18:37,000 | 現在經濟部 |
| 01:18:37,000 | 01:18:39,000 | 我們現在消費者 |
| 01:18:39,000 | 01:18:41,000 | 因為有很多的小攤商 |
| 01:18:41,000 | 01:18:43,000 | 有很多的中小企業 |
| 01:18:43,000 | 01:18:45,000 | 都在你的轄下 |
| 01:18:45,000 | 01:18:47,000 | 你要不要組一個專業小組 |
| 01:18:47,000 | 01:18:49,000 | 來協助他們求償 |
| 01:18:49,000 | 01:18:51,000 | 有的 |
| 01:18:51,000 | 01:18:53,000 | 工學會來講他們如果要求償 |
| 01:18:53,000 | 01:18:55,000 | 我們會給你協助 |
| 01:18:55,000 | 01:18:57,000 | 消費者已經有召開座談會 |
| 01:18:57,000 | 01:18:59,000 | 你會不會主動 |
| 01:18:59,000 | 01:19:01,000 | 經濟部成立專業小組 |
| 01:19:01,000 | 01:19:03,000 | 來協助這些中小企業 |
| 01:19:03,000 | 01:19:05,000 | 攤商來這個業者 |
| 01:19:05,000 | 01:19:07,000 | 大家一一起來協助他們 |
| 01:19:07,000 | 01:19:09,000 | 不要讓他們求償無門 |
| 01:19:09,000 | 01:19:11,000 | 我們會 |
| 01:19:11,000 | 01:19:13,000 | 已經有座談會了 |
| 01:19:13,000 | 01:19:15,000 | 會成立專業小組是嗎 |
| 01:19:15,000 | 01:19:17,000 | 來協助他們 |
| 01:19:17,000 | 01:19:19,000 | 他們還是要主動 |
| 01:19:19,000 | 01:19:21,000 | 求償的權利 |
| 01:19:21,000 | 01:19:23,000 | 我具體建議請經濟部主動協助 |
| 01:19:23,000 | 01:19:25,000 | 謝謝 |
| 01:19:25,000 | 01:19:27,000 | 我們謝謝部長還有楊卓文委員 |
| 01:19:27,000 | 01:19:29,000 | 接下來我們請宗家兵委員質詢 |
| 01:19:29,000 | 01:19:31,000 | 謝謝 |
| 01:19:39,000 | 01:19:41,000 | 主席在訪委員先進 |
| 01:19:41,000 | 01:19:43,000 | 來請經濟部總部長 |
| 01:19:43,000 | 01:19:45,000 | 保護部法律司 |
| 01:19:45,000 | 01:19:47,000 | 謝市長 |
| 01:19:47,000 | 01:19:49,000 | 衛武部 |
| 01:19:49,000 | 01:19:51,000 | 江署長以及審計部的 |
| 01:19:51,000 | 01:19:53,000 | 林副審計長 |
| 01:19:53,000 | 01:19:55,000 | 早安 |
| 01:19:55,000 | 01:19:57,000 | 也給主席建議 |
| 01:19:57,000 | 01:19:59,000 | 我們時間尊重處理控制 |
| 01:19:59,000 | 01:20:01,000 | 但是如果一直跳針 |
| 01:20:01,000 | 01:20:03,000 | 我想主席應該適時的 |
| 01:20:03,000 | 01:20:05,000 | 來我們調整一下 |
| 01:20:05,000 | 01:20:07,000 | 裝睡的人 |
| 01:20:07,000 | 01:20:09,000 | 叫不醒 |
| 01:20:09,000 | 01:20:11,000 | 剛剛有人問部長 |
| 01:20:11,000 | 01:20:13,000 | 蔡市長買菜 |
| 01:20:13,000 | 01:20:15,000 | 我問一下部長 |
| 01:20:15,000 | 01:20:17,000 | 你有沒有收過未鈔 |
| 01:20:17,000 | 01:20:19,000 | 沒有 |
| 01:20:19,000 | 01:20:21,000 | 副審計長 |
| 01:20:21,000 | 01:20:23,000 | 可能比較有這個經驗 |
| 01:20:23,000 | 01:20:25,000 | 有沒有收過未鈔 |
| 01:20:25,000 | 01:20:27,000 | 如果在蔡市長你覺得有蔡犯 |
| 01:20:27,000 | 01:20:29,000 | 收到未鈔 |
| 01:20:29,000 | 01:20:31,000 | 要不要通報 |
| 01:20:31,000 | 01:20:33,000 | 如果是蔡犯我想他小品記 |
| 01:20:33,000 | 01:20:35,000 | 拿到一張未鈔他一定會去 |
| 01:20:35,000 | 01:20:37,000 | 還是說如果這個蔡犯說 |
| 01:20:37,000 | 01:20:39,000 | 未鈔的下一個 |
| 01:20:39,000 | 01:20:41,000 | 顧客不曉得這時候我把他找回去 |
| 01:20:41,000 | 01:20:43,000 | 你覺得這樣可以嗎 |
| 01:20:43,000 | 01:20:45,000 | 我覺得這樣應該不道德 |
| 01:20:45,000 | 01:20:47,000 | 未鈔是通用的法幣 |
| 01:20:47,000 | 01:20:49,000 | 對不對 |
| 01:20:49,000 | 01:20:51,000 | 未鈔不是通用的法幣 |
| 01:20:51,000 | 01:20:53,000 | 所以他如果冒用通用的法幣 |
| 01:20:53,000 | 01:20:55,000 | 知道的人 |
| 01:20:55,000 | 01:20:57,000 | 有責任通報 |
| 01:20:57,000 | 01:20:59,000 | 而且也不能把未造法幣的 |
| 01:20:59,000 | 01:21:01,000 | 未鈔繼續流通 |
| 01:21:01,000 | 01:21:03,000 | 對不對 |
| 01:21:03,000 | 01:21:05,000 | 我們向謝市長 |
| 01:21:05,000 | 01:21:07,000 | 來 |
| 01:21:07,000 | 01:21:09,000 | 那未鈔有法律規定 |
| 01:21:09,000 | 01:21:11,000 | 那黃金有沒有法律規定 |
| 01:21:11,000 | 01:21:13,000 | 黃金的成色 |
| 01:21:13,000 | 01:21:15,000 | 9999還是 |
| 01:21:15,000 | 01:21:17,000 | 9989 |
| 01:21:17,000 | 01:21:19,000 | 法律有沒有規定 |
| 01:21:19,000 | 01:21:21,000 | 我去銀樓 |
| 01:21:21,000 | 01:21:23,000 | 假設有人銀樓說 |
| 01:21:23,000 | 01:21:25,000 | 有人拿未鈔來通報 |
| 01:21:25,000 | 01:21:27,000 | 有人拿黃金來說 |
| 01:21:27,000 | 01:21:29,000 | 我這個要跟你 |
| 01:21:29,000 | 01:21:31,000 | 賣給你 |
| 01:21:31,000 | 01:21:33,000 | 那銀樓說你這個成色不足 |
| 01:21:33,000 | 01:21:35,000 | 我只收成色主的 |
| 01:21:35,000 | 01:21:37,000 | 9999的 |
| 01:21:37,000 | 01:21:39,000 | 銀樓不收 |
| 01:21:39,000 | 01:21:41,000 | 也沒有去通報你就贏了嗎責任 |
| 01:21:41,000 | 01:21:43,000 | 一般按照我們的工作經驗 |
| 01:21:43,000 | 01:21:45,000 | 這邊是沒有責任 |
| 01:21:45,000 | 01:21:47,000 | 對嘛 |
| 01:21:47,000 | 01:21:49,000 | 所以出油就是什麼 |
| 01:21:49,000 | 01:21:51,000 | 就是金塊嘛 |
| 01:21:51,000 | 01:21:53,000 | 台糖訂了一批出油 |
| 01:21:53,000 | 01:21:55,000 | 成色不足 |
| 01:21:55,000 | 01:21:57,000 | 要賣給台糖台糖不收嘛 |
| 01:21:57,000 | 01:21:59,000 | 我要的是純9999的 |
| 01:21:59,000 | 01:22:01,000 | 有沒有違法 |
| 01:22:01,000 | 01:22:03,000 | 有沒有違法 |
| 01:22:03,000 | 01:22:05,000 | 就沒有通報這件事情是 |
| 01:22:05,000 | 01:22:07,000 | 所以說嘛 |
| 01:22:07,000 | 01:22:09,000 | 部長知道沒有 |
| 01:22:09,000 | 01:22:11,000 | 白白菜市場買菜你用未鈔跟金塊 |
| 01:22:11,000 | 01:22:13,000 | 人家就聽懂了啦 |
| 01:22:13,000 | 01:22:15,000 | 未鈔是貿用法定 |
| 01:22:15,000 | 01:22:17,000 | 貨幣食品有食品安全 |
| 01:22:17,000 | 01:22:19,000 | 我買了這家的合格食品 |
| 01:22:19,000 | 01:22:21,000 | 我再賣給別人因為我確認 |
| 01:22:21,000 | 01:22:23,000 | 他是合格的我轉賣可以嘛對不對 |
| 01:22:23,000 | 01:22:25,000 | 如果拿到一個不合格的 |
| 01:22:25,000 | 01:22:27,000 | 食品我還轉賣我就不對嘛 |
| 01:22:27,000 | 01:22:29,000 | 是不是 |
| 01:22:29,000 | 01:22:31,000 | 我去進黃金我去進原料 |
| 01:22:31,000 | 01:22:33,000 | 原料的成色不合我的要求 |
| 01:22:33,000 | 01:22:35,000 | 我不收 |
| 01:22:35,000 | 01:22:37,000 | 有沒有必要回報 |
| 01:22:37,000 | 01:22:39,000 | 市長要不要 |
| 01:22:39,000 | 01:22:41,000 | 是 |
| 01:22:41,000 | 01:22:43,000 | 委員這題因為涉及到食安法的解讀 |
| 01:22:43,000 | 01:22:45,000 | 我只是問你啊如果你收到金塊成色不足 |
| 01:22:45,000 | 01:22:47,000 | 你會不會回報 |
| 01:22:47,000 | 01:22:49,000 | 不收就對了嘛 |
| 01:22:49,000 | 01:22:51,000 | 如果以一般消費者的角度來講的話就是拒絕交易 |
| 01:22:51,000 | 01:22:53,000 | 對嘛部長 |
| 01:22:53,000 | 01:22:55,000 | 那台糖拒絕交易拒絕收那批不合格的出油 |
| 01:22:55,000 | 01:22:57,000 | 你覺得台糖有沒有 |
| 01:22:57,000 | 01:22:59,000 | 有什麼回事 |
| 01:22:59,000 | 01:23:01,000 | 他拒絕 |
| 01:23:01,000 | 01:23:03,000 | 這個本來就是他們的SOS |
| 01:23:03,000 | 01:23:05,000 | 但是所以說 |
| 01:23:05,000 | 01:23:07,000 | 未超跟金塊 |
| 01:23:07,000 | 01:23:09,000 | 出油 |
| 01:23:09,000 | 01:23:11,000 | 跟食品 |
| 01:23:11,000 | 01:23:13,000 | 出油不等於食品啦 |
| 01:23:13,000 | 01:23:15,000 | 我現在進入正題了來 |
| 01:23:15,000 | 01:23:17,000 | 我再問一下剛剛好像 |
| 01:23:17,000 | 01:23:19,000 | 那個署長沒有人請教你署長是科學家 |
| 01:23:19,000 | 01:23:21,000 | 來醫師請教一下 |
| 01:23:21,000 | 01:23:23,000 | 太空站的太空人啊他喝的水 |
| 01:23:23,000 | 01:23:25,000 | 是什麼水 |
| 01:23:25,000 | 01:23:27,000 | 應該是循環的水 |
| 01:23:27,000 | 01:23:29,000 | 太空人他呼出來的水氣 |
| 01:23:29,000 | 01:23:31,000 | 他的排尿他的漢液 |
| 01:23:31,000 | 01:23:33,000 | 通通收集起來 |
| 01:23:33,000 | 01:23:35,000 | 經過再生後他就給他喝 |
| 01:23:35,000 | 01:23:37,000 | 署長如果你是太空人 |
| 01:23:37,000 | 01:23:39,000 | 你敢喝嗎 |
| 01:23:39,000 | 01:23:41,000 | 我會喝 |
| 01:23:41,000 | 01:23:43,000 | 你會喝嗎因為這個完全處理合格的嘛 |
| 01:23:43,000 | 01:23:45,000 | 金塊是你排出來的你還是敢喝嘛 |
| 01:23:45,000 | 01:23:47,000 | 你隔壁的太空人排出來的你也敢喝嘛 |
| 01:23:47,000 | 01:23:49,000 | 對的 |
| 01:23:49,000 | 01:23:51,000 | 經過處理啦不能直接喝啦 |
| 01:23:51,000 | 01:23:53,000 | 好往下看 |
| 01:23:53,000 | 01:23:55,000 | 來游泳池有沒有訂標準 |
| 01:23:55,000 | 01:23:57,000 | 游泳池有規定嘛 |
| 01:23:57,000 | 01:23:59,000 | 生菌數多少嘛對不對 |
| 01:23:59,000 | 01:24:01,000 | 不能要低於500CFU嘛 |
| 01:24:01,000 | 01:24:03,000 | 大腸桿菌你100公戳 |
| 01:24:03,000 | 01:24:05,000 | 要少於1CFU嘛 |
| 01:24:05,000 | 01:24:07,000 | 如果合乎標準的游泳池你敢下水嗎 |
| 01:24:09,000 | 01:24:11,000 | 敢嘛對不對 |
| 01:24:11,000 | 01:24:13,000 | 除非有小朋友在你旁邊 |
| 01:24:13,000 | 01:24:15,000 | 偷偷做什麼不應該做的事嘛對不對 |
| 01:24:15,000 | 01:24:17,000 | 好但是 |
| 01:24:17,000 | 01:24:19,000 | 如果你這樣的馬桶 |
| 01:24:19,000 | 01:24:21,000 | 拿了水他是超過 |
| 01:24:21,000 | 01:24:23,000 | 超過1CPU的 |
| 01:24:23,000 | 01:24:25,000 | 結果呢我幫他稀釋 |
| 01:24:25,000 | 01:24:27,000 | 跟游泳池的標準一樣 |
| 01:24:27,000 | 01:24:29,000 | 有兩杯水 |
| 01:24:29,000 | 01:24:31,000 | 一杯是游泳池的 |
| 01:24:31,000 | 01:24:33,000 | 一杯是你家馬桶拿出來的 |
| 01:24:33,000 | 01:24:35,000 | 但是稀釋後呢標準跟游泳池一樣 |
| 01:24:35,000 | 01:24:37,000 | 請問你要喝哪一杯 |
| 01:24:39,000 | 01:24:41,000 | 因為兩杯都沒有在喝 |
| 01:24:41,000 | 01:24:43,000 | 不會喝游泳池的水除非嗆到才會 |
| 01:24:43,000 | 01:24:45,000 | 對啦你嗆到了 |
| 01:24:45,000 | 01:24:47,000 | 你希望是嗆到游泳池的水還是嗆到那個馬桶裡的水 |
| 01:24:47,000 | 01:24:49,000 | 因為不會去馬桶裡面游泳 |
| 01:24:49,000 | 01:24:51,000 | 所以應該在游泳池會嗆到 |
| 01:24:51,000 | 01:24:53,000 | 很好但是呢在科學上 |
| 01:24:53,000 | 01:24:55,000 | 一般人直覺說 |
| 01:24:55,000 | 01:24:57,000 | 如果兩杯水的標準 |
| 01:24:57,000 | 01:24:59,000 | 是一模一樣 |
| 01:24:59,000 | 01:25:01,000 | 他會覺得在游泳池裡面嗆到水比較安心 |
| 01:25:01,000 | 01:25:03,000 | 我告訴他說我這一杯水 |
| 01:25:03,000 | 01:25:05,000 | 跟游泳池的品質一樣 |
| 01:25:05,000 | 01:25:07,000 | 但是是從你家的馬桶咬出來稀釋過的 |
| 01:25:07,000 | 01:25:09,000 | 你覺得他會接受嗎 |
| 01:25:09,000 | 01:25:11,000 | 比較困難接受 |
| 01:25:11,000 | 01:25:13,000 | 心理上不會接受很奇怪呢 |
| 01:25:13,000 | 01:25:15,000 | 你如果在太空人 |
| 01:25:15,000 | 01:25:17,000 | 你自己的排尿 |
| 01:25:17,000 | 01:25:19,000 | 你都敢喝 |
| 01:25:19,000 | 01:25:21,000 | 到游泳池裡面你不曉得 |
| 01:25:21,000 | 01:25:23,000 | 隔壁的小朋友有沒有怎麼樣 |
| 01:25:23,000 | 01:25:25,000 | 你嗆到水你還是無所謂 |
| 01:25:25,000 | 01:25:27,000 | 但是如果告訴你我現在給你 |
| 01:25:27,000 | 01:25:29,000 | 喝的這一杯水是從你家馬桶撈出來的 |
| 01:25:29,000 | 01:25:31,000 | 稀釋過完全 |
| 01:25:31,000 | 01:25:33,000 | 合乎標準你還是有 |
| 01:25:33,000 | 01:25:35,000 | 心理障礙嘛對不對 |
| 01:25:35,000 | 01:25:37,000 | 委員這邊提到就是在食品安全的安全 |
| 01:25:37,000 | 01:25:39,000 | 跟安心這兩點 |
| 01:25:39,000 | 01:25:41,000 | 其實要照顧到民眾的心裡面 |
| 01:25:41,000 | 01:25:43,000 | 沒有錯這就是來我今天要講的 |
| 01:25:43,000 | 01:25:45,000 | 今天的板扁皮 |
| 01:25:45,000 | 01:25:47,000 | 這個字終於現在全國人民都會念了 |
| 01:25:47,000 | 01:25:49,000 | 中國的標準是 |
| 01:25:49,000 | 01:25:51,000 | 10ppb |
| 01:25:51,000 | 01:25:53,000 | 中聯有指 |
| 01:25:53,000 | 01:25:55,000 | 他去進的黃豆 |
| 01:25:55,000 | 01:25:57,000 | 過去都是賣中國的 |
| 01:25:57,000 | 01:25:59,000 | 巴西的黃豆 |
| 01:25:59,000 | 01:26:01,000 | 他本來的熱損率 |
| 01:26:01,000 | 01:26:03,000 | 就比較高 |
| 01:26:03,000 | 01:26:05,000 | 所以中聯過去都不是 |
| 01:26:05,000 | 01:26:07,000 | 他是跟美國進 |
| 01:26:07,000 | 01:26:09,000 | 他現在改跟巴西進熱損率提高 |
| 01:26:09,000 | 01:26:11,000 | 他要照收 |
| 01:26:11,000 | 01:26:13,000 | 如果這批黃豆送到中國去 |
| 01:26:13,000 | 01:26:15,000 | 所以中聯是8ppb |
| 01:26:15,000 | 01:26:17,000 | 請問有沒有違反中文的標準 |
| 01:26:17,000 | 01:26:19,000 | 沒有但是他的標準多少 |
| 01:26:19,000 | 01:26:21,000 | 2ppb |
| 01:26:21,000 | 01:26:23,000 | 他們是10我們是2 |
| 01:26:23,000 | 01:26:25,000 | 他們是10我們是2嘛對不對 |
| 01:26:25,000 | 01:26:27,000 | 台灣是2他們是10嘛 |
| 01:26:27,000 | 01:26:29,000 | 所以如果中聯不買美國的黃豆 |
| 01:26:29,000 | 01:26:31,000 | 改進巴西的黃豆 |
| 01:26:31,000 | 01:26:33,000 | 創造中國去提煉 |
| 01:26:33,000 | 01:26:35,000 | 合乎中的標準 |
| 01:26:35,000 | 01:26:37,000 | 但是到台灣來就超標了嘛 |
| 01:26:37,000 | 01:26:39,000 | 是不是這樣子 |
| 01:26:39,000 | 01:26:41,000 | 好那現在大家來談 |
| 01:26:41,000 | 01:26:43,000 | 今天中聯的問題 |
| 01:26:43,000 | 01:26:45,000 | 他是8.1ppb |
| 01:26:45,000 | 01:26:47,000 | 我是油品加工廠 |
| 01:26:47,000 | 01:26:49,000 | 我不曉得這批油 |
| 01:26:49,000 | 01:26:51,000 | 有超標 |
| 01:26:51,000 | 01:26:53,000 | 我用了我有沒有可能超標 |
| 01:26:53,000 | 01:26:55,000 | 有沒有可能 |
| 01:26:55,000 | 01:26:57,000 | 我是下午的食品加工廠 |
| 01:26:57,000 | 01:26:59,000 | 會不會有可能 |
| 01:26:59,000 | 01:27:01,000 | 那如果我經過西市 |
| 01:27:01,000 | 01:27:03,000 | 我沒有全部用我只用 |
| 01:27:03,000 | 01:27:05,000 | 兩成 |
| 01:27:05,000 | 01:27:07,000 | 8.1ppb的兩成是多少 |
| 01:27:07,000 | 01:27:09,000 | 1.6左右 |
| 01:27:09,000 | 01:27:11,000 | 就是西市了嘛 |
| 01:27:11,000 | 01:27:13,000 | 我沒有用我沒有全部都用 |
| 01:27:13,000 | 01:27:15,000 | 中聯的油紙我只用兩成 |
| 01:27:15,000 | 01:27:17,000 | 結果他從8.1ppb |
| 01:27:17,000 | 01:27:19,000 | 變成了1.6ppb |
| 01:27:19,000 | 01:27:21,000 | 請問在食安法 |
| 01:27:21,000 | 01:27:23,000 | 我是食品加油的加工廠 |
| 01:27:23,000 | 01:27:25,000 | 我的油是1.6本篇比 |
| 01:27:25,000 | 01:27:27,000 | 1.6ppb有沒有超標 |
| 01:27:27,000 | 01:27:29,000 | 報告委員這個部分是 |
| 01:27:29,000 | 01:27:31,000 | 符合衛生安全標準 |
| 01:27:31,000 | 01:27:33,000 | 回到7月4號做這個決議的時候 |
| 01:27:33,000 | 01:27:35,000 | 只有一批 |
| 01:27:35,000 | 01:27:37,000 | 也不知道這些廠商是這麼 |
| 01:27:37,000 | 01:27:39,000 | 遏制的去延遲通報 |
| 01:27:39,000 | 01:27:41,000 | 隱匿通報 |
| 01:27:41,000 | 01:27:43,000 | 我現在沒有問題 |
| 01:27:43,000 | 01:27:45,000 | 我只是個不知情的食品加工廠 |
| 01:27:45,000 | 01:27:47,000 | 我進了一批有問題的油 |
| 01:27:47,000 | 01:27:49,000 | 超標結果我在製程當中 |
| 01:27:49,000 | 01:27:51,000 | 我因為很多家一起用 |
| 01:27:51,000 | 01:27:53,000 | 所以我這一家有問題的油 |
| 01:27:53,000 | 01:27:55,000 | 用不到兩成 |
| 01:27:55,000 | 01:27:57,000 | 所以我的製程品他只有 |
| 01:27:57,000 | 01:27:59,000 | 合乎小於2ppb的1.6ppb |
| 01:27:59,000 | 01:28:01,000 | 那義式安法 |
| 01:28:01,000 | 01:28:03,000 | 他算不算一個合格的產品 |
| 01:28:03,000 | 01:28:05,000 | 報告委員他是合格的 |
| 01:28:05,000 | 01:28:07,000 | 這個階段 |
| 01:28:07,000 | 01:28:09,000 | 其實我們的想法做法 |
| 01:28:09,000 | 01:28:11,000 | 跟韓國歐盟一致的 |
| 01:28:11,000 | 01:28:13,000 | 對於這種的 |
| 01:28:13,000 | 01:28:15,000 | 比較濃度會下降 |
| 01:28:15,000 | 01:28:17,000 | 理論上是如果知道他是惡性的 |
| 01:28:17,000 | 01:28:19,000 | 是不可以稀釋的 |
| 01:28:19,000 | 01:28:21,000 | 但我們是不知道的 |
| 01:28:21,000 | 01:28:23,000 | 所以訂出這樣標準的情形之下 |
| 01:28:23,000 | 01:28:25,000 | 就像說如果我是太空人 |
| 01:28:25,000 | 01:28:27,000 | 我知道我喝的水是從我的尿液 |
| 01:28:27,000 | 01:28:29,000 | 重新提煉全化給我喝的 |
| 01:28:29,000 | 01:28:31,000 | 我敢喝 |
| 01:28:31,000 | 01:28:33,000 | 我知道游泳池檢驗過了 |
| 01:28:33,000 | 01:28:35,000 | 合格我敢下水 |
| 01:28:35,000 | 01:28:37,000 | 但是就算你拿一杯水給我 |
| 01:28:37,000 | 01:28:39,000 | 他完全跟游泳池水一模一樣 |
| 01:28:39,000 | 01:28:41,000 | 但是你告訴我說 |
| 01:28:41,000 | 01:28:43,000 | 這時候從我家馬桶裡面來稀釋過的 |
| 01:28:43,000 | 01:28:45,000 | 我就不敢喝 |
| 01:28:45,000 | 01:28:47,000 | 完全合乎科學標準 |
| 01:28:47,000 | 01:28:49,000 | 完全合乎食安 |
| 01:28:49,000 | 01:28:51,000 | 但是不符合我們心理的安心 |
| 01:28:51,000 | 01:28:53,000 | 所以後來 |
| 01:28:53,000 | 01:28:55,000 | 為什麼我們還是覺得 |
| 01:28:55,000 | 01:28:57,000 | 要讓他下架 |
| 01:28:57,000 | 01:28:59,000 | 是這樣嗎 |
| 01:28:59,000 | 01:29:01,000 | 這是根據科學證據來的 |
| 01:29:01,000 | 01:29:03,000 | 不要盡快為超傻傻分不清 |
| 01:29:03,000 | 01:29:05,000 | 不要把下游的加工廠 |
| 01:29:05,000 | 01:29:07,000 | 他完全符合食安標準的法規產品 |
| 01:29:07,000 | 01:29:09,000 | 硬要人家下架 |
| 01:29:09,000 | 01:29:11,000 | 他是合法的 |
| 01:29:11,000 | 01:29:13,000 | 但是基於消費者心理的感受 |
| 01:29:13,000 | 01:29:15,000 | 明明可以喝的 |
| 01:29:15,000 | 01:29:17,000 | 太空人敢喝的自己的水 |
| 01:29:17,000 | 01:29:19,000 | 我們到了我們台灣 |
| 01:29:19,000 | 01:29:21,000 | 到我們的地面 |
| 01:29:21,000 | 01:29:23,000 | 到我們的地球 |
| 01:29:23,000 | 01:29:25,000 | 只要這杯水完全合標 |
| 01:29:25,000 | 01:29:27,000 | 跟你家馬桶咬出來的 |
| 01:29:27,000 | 01:29:29,000 | 你碰都不敢碰 |
| 01:29:29,000 | 01:29:31,000 | 這就是消費者心理的要求 |
| 01:29:31,000 | 01:29:33,000 | 所以我們現在看到這個問題了 |
| 01:29:33,000 | 01:29:35,000 | 如果是這樣子的話 |
| 01:29:35,000 | 01:29:37,000 | 這些下游的食品廠是不是無辜的 |
| 01:29:37,000 | 01:29:39,000 | 我進了游 |
| 01:29:39,000 | 01:29:41,000 | 我以為他是合標的 |
| 01:29:41,000 | 01:29:43,000 | 我生產完了 我要出廠前 |
| 01:29:43,000 | 01:29:45,000 | 我驗了也是合標的 |
| 01:29:45,000 | 01:29:47,000 | 請問為什麼要叫我下架 |
| 01:29:47,000 | 01:29:49,000 | 我下架後的損失誰來補償我 |
| 01:29:51,000 | 01:29:53,000 | 部長你們怎麼做 |
| 01:29:53,000 | 01:29:55,000 | 是不是修食安法 |
| 01:29:55,000 | 01:29:57,000 | 是食安法面對我們配合 |
| 01:29:57,000 | 01:30:01,000 | 所謂的預防性下架的業者 |
| 01:30:01,000 | 01:30:03,000 | 我們目前積極在修法 |
| 01:30:03,000 | 01:30:05,000 | 以及找到消費的原因 |
| 01:30:05,000 | 01:30:07,000 | 就是你們現在勤政院版的增列第二條第五款 |
| 01:30:07,000 | 01:30:09,000 | 可是我們的食安基金目前只有10億 |
| 01:30:09,000 | 01:30:11,000 | 我們的食品業 |
| 01:30:11,000 | 01:30:13,000 | 佔我們國家的產值多少 |
| 01:30:13,000 | 01:30:15,000 | 部長你知道嗎 |
| 01:30:15,000 | 01:30:17,000 | 我們國家的食品加工業者 |
| 01:30:17,000 | 01:30:19,000 | 我們有多少 |
| 01:30:19,000 | 01:30:21,000 | 是一個百億還是一個千億 |
| 01:30:21,000 | 01:30:23,000 | 部長你估一下大概是多少 |
| 01:30:23,000 | 01:30:25,000 | 他的產值 |
| 01:30:25,000 | 01:30:27,000 | 應該有好幾百億 |
| 01:30:27,000 | 01:30:29,000 | 應該上千億 |
| 01:30:29,000 | 01:30:31,000 | 那上千億如果按照這個方式下架的話 |
| 01:30:31,000 | 01:30:33,000 | 受損的風險有沒有可能超過十億 |
| 01:30:33,000 | 01:30:35,000 | 那食安基金夠嗎 |
| 01:30:35,000 | 01:30:37,000 | 是不夠 |
| 01:30:37,000 | 01:30:39,000 | 不夠嘛 |
| 01:30:39,000 | 01:30:41,000 | 所以來部長你仔細聽 |
| 01:30:41,000 | 01:30:43,000 | 我的修法 我在7月14號就問了 |
| 01:30:43,000 | 01:30:45,000 | 我說可不可以請經濟部研擬 |
| 01:30:45,000 | 01:30:47,000 | 食品產銷風險管理基金 |
| 01:30:47,000 | 01:30:49,000 | 為什麼 |
| 01:30:49,000 | 01:30:51,000 | 這些不知情的並沒有違法的業者 |
| 01:30:51,000 | 01:30:53,000 | 因為剛剛那樣的心理因素 |
| 01:30:53,000 | 01:30:55,000 | 可能政府要求他配合 |
| 01:30:55,000 | 01:30:57,000 | 把他合格的食品下架 |
| 01:30:57,000 | 01:30:59,000 | 這樣的一個經濟損失 |
| 01:30:59,000 | 01:31:01,000 | 我們弄一個風險管理基金 |
| 01:31:01,000 | 01:31:03,000 | 來處理 |
| 01:31:03,000 | 01:31:05,000 | 部長 |
| 01:31:05,000 | 01:31:07,000 | 那個時候是次長在陪 |
| 01:31:07,000 | 01:31:09,000 | 那時候你出國嘛 |
| 01:31:09,000 | 01:31:11,000 | 院長說這個可以來研究一下 |
| 01:31:11,000 | 01:31:13,000 | 部長研究了沒有 |
| 01:31:13,000 | 01:31:15,000 | 部長有沒有研究 |
| 01:31:15,000 | 01:31:17,000 | 食品產銷風險管理基金 |
| 01:31:17,000 | 01:31:19,000 | 有沒有研究 |
| 01:31:19,000 | 01:31:21,000 | 我個人來講是還蠻贊成 |
| 01:31:21,000 | 01:31:23,000 | 這樣的 |
| 01:31:23,000 | 01:31:25,000 | 謝謝這句話就夠了你很贊成 |
| 01:31:25,000 | 01:31:27,000 | 因為我給你一個機會 |
| 01:31:27,000 | 01:31:29,000 | 來接下來本席的版本 |
| 01:31:29,000 | 01:31:31,000 | 我就這次從行政院版當中 |
| 01:31:31,000 | 01:31:33,000 | 我就寫 |
| 01:31:33,000 | 01:31:35,000 | 為確保違規食品業者依指揮中心 |
| 01:31:35,000 | 01:31:37,000 | 指示或中央主管機關依第四條第五項 |
| 01:31:37,000 | 01:31:39,000 | 就是要求下架的公告辦理 |
| 01:31:39,000 | 01:31:41,000 | 得設立食品產銷風險管理基金 |
| 01:31:41,000 | 01:31:43,000 | 秉持著同意 |
| 01:31:43,000 | 01:31:45,000 | 互助的原則 |
| 01:31:45,000 | 01:31:47,000 | 給予必要的補助 |
| 01:31:47,000 | 01:31:49,000 | 並得委託其他機關構法人或團體辦理 |
| 01:31:51,000 | 01:31:53,000 | 前項基金依個別食品原料業者的銷售金額負別列帳 |
| 01:31:53,000 | 01:31:55,000 | 你市占率越高的你就繳越多 |
| 01:31:55,000 | 01:31:57,000 | 費率怎麼算 |
| 01:31:57,000 | 01:31:59,000 | 這個是有類似的 |
| 01:31:59,000 | 01:32:01,000 | 我們的汽車強制責任險 |
| 01:32:01,000 | 01:32:03,000 | 有一個特別補償基金 |
| 01:32:03,000 | 01:32:05,000 | 強保險很重要 |
| 01:32:05,000 | 01:32:07,000 | 強保險我今天被人家車撞了 |
| 01:32:07,000 | 01:32:09,000 | 萬一他是一個無照的 |
| 01:32:09,000 | 01:32:11,000 | 他是一個沒有經濟能力的 |
| 01:32:11,000 | 01:32:13,000 | 我被他撞我倒楣 |
| 01:32:13,000 | 01:32:15,000 | 好 現在我們就講 |
| 01:32:15,000 | 01:32:17,000 | 我被人家車撞了我可以跟誰求償 |
| 01:32:17,000 | 01:32:19,000 | 我可以跟我們的 |
| 01:32:19,000 | 01:32:21,000 | 強保基金 |
| 01:32:21,000 | 01:32:23,000 | 那強保基金誰出我用保險 |
| 01:32:23,000 | 01:32:25,000 | 但是我們在其他的地方 |
| 01:32:25,000 | 01:32:27,000 | 有同業來做 |
| 01:32:27,000 | 01:32:29,000 | 叫什麼 |
| 01:32:29,000 | 01:32:31,000 | 平保協會 |
| 01:32:31,000 | 01:32:33,000 | 我們的旅遊品質保險 |
| 01:32:33,000 | 01:32:35,000 | 一個基金 |
| 01:32:35,000 | 01:32:37,000 | 萬一我的旅行就倒了 |
| 01:32:37,000 | 01:32:39,000 | 我在國外回不來 |
| 01:32:39,000 | 01:32:41,000 | 飯店上面有結 |
| 01:32:41,000 | 01:32:43,000 | 就會從這個同業的這個基金 |
| 01:32:43,000 | 01:32:45,000 | 幫我把旅館錢 |
| 01:32:45,000 | 01:32:47,000 | 巧了我可以回國來 |
| 01:32:47,000 | 01:32:49,000 | 部長有沒有聽過這樣的機制 |
| 01:32:49,000 | 01:32:51,000 | 有嘛 |
| 01:32:51,000 | 01:32:53,000 | 所以第一項基金的來源 |
| 01:32:53,000 | 01:32:55,000 | 包括說食品原料業者 |
| 01:32:55,000 | 01:32:57,000 | 依前項角的費用及知識收入 |
| 01:32:57,000 | 01:32:59,000 | 及給付的支出餘額 |
| 01:32:59,000 | 01:33:01,000 | 這些就是讓 |
| 01:33:01,000 | 01:33:03,000 | 食品業者他們透過 |
| 01:33:03,000 | 01:33:05,000 | 自己供基金的方式 |
| 01:33:05,000 | 01:33:07,000 | 遇到有同業 |
| 01:33:07,000 | 01:33:09,000 | 老鼠屎壞了一鍋粥的時候 |
| 01:33:09,000 | 01:33:11,000 | 同業至少可以怎麼樣 |
| 01:33:11,000 | 01:33:13,000 | 透過這個基金 |
| 01:33:13,000 | 01:33:15,000 | 把守法的業者 |
| 01:33:15,000 | 01:33:17,000 | 因為這樣的一個不必要的損失 |
| 01:33:17,000 | 01:33:19,000 | 得以救濟得以補償 |
| 01:33:19,000 | 01:33:21,000 | 部長你支持這樣的構想 |
| 01:33:21,000 | 01:33:23,000 | 支持 |
| 01:33:23,000 | 01:33:25,000 | 所以後面我就不再講了 |
| 01:33:25,000 | 01:33:27,000 | 我們看結論往下看 |
| 01:33:27,000 | 01:33:29,000 | 所以請經濟部協助業者 |
| 01:33:29,000 | 01:33:31,000 | 成立食品產銷風險管理基金的肯行性 |
| 01:33:31,000 | 01:33:33,000 | 並提出順便報告好不好 |
| 01:33:33,000 | 01:33:35,000 | 所以以後 |
| 01:33:35,000 | 01:33:37,000 | 去市場講 |
| 01:33:37,000 | 01:33:39,000 | 不能用未超 |
| 01:33:39,000 | 01:33:41,000 | 的資源去判裁業 |
| 01:33:41,000 | 01:33:43,000 | 所以處長你要說的就是說 |
| 01:33:43,000 | 01:33:45,000 | 那20% |
| 01:33:45,000 | 01:33:47,000 | 為什麼20%那時候你們認為原料 |
| 01:33:47,000 | 01:33:49,000 | 有占不到20%就不用下架 |
| 01:33:49,000 | 01:33:51,000 | 因為法規的標準科學正確一模一樣 |
| 01:33:51,000 | 01:33:53,000 | 但是為什麼後來你們改變了 |
| 01:33:53,000 | 01:33:55,000 | 因為民眾心不安 |
| 01:33:55,000 | 01:33:57,000 | 謝謝部長謝謝署長 |
| 01:33:57,000 | 01:33:59,000 | 謝謝部長署長 |
| 01:33:59,000 | 01:34:01,000 | 謝謝中間委員 |
| 01:34:01,000 | 01:34:03,000 | 接下來我們請秋志偉委員 |
| 01:34:03,000 | 01:34:05,000 | 質詢 |
| 01:34:09,000 | 01:34:11,000 | 謝謝主席是不是請 |
| 01:34:11,000 | 01:34:13,000 | 經濟部管部長台唐 |
| 01:34:13,000 | 01:34:15,000 | 請經濟部部長台唐 |
| 01:34:15,000 | 01:34:17,000 | 然後 |
| 01:34:17,000 | 01:34:19,000 | 江署長 |
| 01:34:19,000 | 01:34:21,000 | 江署長謝謝 |
| 01:34:21,000 | 01:34:23,000 | 謝謝署長 |
| 01:34:23,000 | 01:34:25,000 | 謝謝署長還有 |
| 01:34:25,000 | 01:34:27,000 | 副總 |
| 01:34:27,000 | 01:34:29,000 | 就今天的報告內容 |
| 01:34:29,000 | 01:34:31,000 | 是針對台唐 |
| 01:34:31,000 | 01:34:33,000 | 的經營治理跟風險管控 |
| 01:34:33,000 | 01:34:35,000 | 的經營治理跟風險管控 |
| 01:34:35,000 | 01:34:37,000 | 的經營治理跟風險管控 |
| 01:34:37,000 | 01:34:39,000 | 的經營治理跟風險管控 |
| 01:34:39,000 | 01:34:41,000 | 那從中聯油紙 |
| 01:34:41,000 | 01:34:43,000 | 這個事業來看 |
| 01:34:43,000 | 01:34:45,000 | 這個一個公司的經營 |
| 01:34:45,000 | 01:34:47,000 | 治理跟風險管控因為 |
| 01:34:47,000 | 01:34:49,000 | 台唐是國營事業他是公務人員 |
| 01:34:49,000 | 01:34:51,000 | 第一個他最基本 |
| 01:34:51,000 | 01:34:53,000 | 條件要做到合情合理 |
| 01:34:53,000 | 01:34:55,000 | 而且要合法 |
| 01:34:55,000 | 01:34:57,000 | 合規合法 |
| 01:34:57,000 | 01:34:59,000 | 合規加上合憲合理 |
| 01:34:59,000 | 01:35:01,000 | 大家如果這四個條件都做到 |
| 01:35:01,000 | 01:35:03,000 | 經營治理跟風險 |
| 01:35:03,000 | 01:35:05,000 | 管控基本上不會有太大的問題 |
| 01:35:05,000 | 01:35:07,000 | 好從中聯油紙這個事業來看 |
| 01:35:07,000 | 01:35:09,000 | 我看到貴部的報告 |
| 01:35:09,000 | 01:35:11,000 | 你們去小港 |
| 01:35:11,000 | 01:35:13,000 | 去做實地的查核 |
| 01:35:13,000 | 01:35:15,000 | 查核結果 |
| 01:35:15,000 | 01:35:17,000 | 有分三點 |
| 01:35:17,000 | 01:35:19,000 | 在你們報告裡面也講 |
| 01:35:19,000 | 01:35:21,000 | 包括他你們檢驗的結果 |
| 01:35:21,000 | 01:35:23,000 | 以及第二次 |
| 01:35:23,000 | 01:35:25,000 | 在521在6月11號 |
| 01:35:25,000 | 01:35:27,000 | 的成果 |
| 01:35:27,000 | 01:35:29,000 | 有合格 |
| 01:35:29,000 | 01:35:31,000 | 合格跟這個 |
| 01:35:31,000 | 01:35:33,000 | 之前的這個 |
| 01:35:33,000 | 01:35:35,000 | 中聯油問題的成品 |
| 01:35:35,000 | 01:35:37,000 | 這個批號是完全沒有關係 |
| 01:35:37,000 | 01:35:39,000 | 這第一點 |
| 01:35:39,000 | 01:35:41,000 | 台方公司的自主檢查是 |
| 01:35:41,000 | 01:35:43,000 | 機制很嚴謹第三 |
| 01:35:43,000 | 01:35:45,000 | 檢驗包括衛福部 |
| 01:35:45,000 | 01:35:47,000 | 包括這個高雄市政府衛生局的 |
| 01:35:47,000 | 01:35:49,000 | 查驗都全部都合格 |
| 01:35:49,000 | 01:35:51,000 | 從三點來看 |
| 01:35:51,000 | 01:35:53,000 | 好今天的題目 |
| 01:35:53,000 | 01:35:55,000 | 是經營治理風險 |
| 01:35:55,000 | 01:35:57,000 | 控管我乍看之下 |
| 01:35:57,000 | 01:35:59,000 | 是不是有很大的經營治理跟 |
| 01:35:59,000 | 01:36:01,000 | 風險控管的問題 |
| 01:36:01,000 | 01:36:03,000 | 就從中研油紙的事情來看 |
| 01:36:03,000 | 01:36:05,000 | 您覺得台方 |
| 01:36:05,000 | 01:36:07,000 | 在這個經營治理跟風險 |
| 01:36:07,000 | 01:36:09,000 | 控管表現怎麼樣 |
| 01:36:09,000 | 01:36:11,000 | 部長 |
| 01:36:13,000 | 01:36:15,000 | 剛剛委員提到 |
| 01:36:15,000 | 01:36:17,000 | 最重要公務員要合法合規 |
| 01:36:17,000 | 01:36:19,000 | 合情合理 |
| 01:36:19,000 | 01:36:21,000 | 合法合規這個部分 |
| 01:36:21,000 | 01:36:23,000 | 已經 |
| 01:36:23,000 | 01:36:25,000 | 包括食藥署包括地方政府都 |
| 01:36:25,000 | 01:36:27,000 | 已經做了說明 |
| 01:36:27,000 | 01:36:29,000 | 合情合理的部分就是要自我要求 |
| 01:36:29,000 | 01:36:31,000 | 要求很嚴格 |
| 01:36:31,000 | 01:36:33,000 | 所以為什麼他 |
| 01:36:33,000 | 01:36:35,000 | 舉行三十二次的檢查 |
| 01:36:35,000 | 01:36:37,000 | 包括自己的 |
| 01:36:37,000 | 01:36:39,000 | 十二次檢查 |
| 01:36:39,000 | 01:36:41,000 | 自主檢查地方政府 |
| 01:36:41,000 | 01:36:43,000 | 相對嚴格 |
| 01:36:43,000 | 01:36:45,000 | 所以他所有的油 |
| 01:36:45,000 | 01:36:47,000 | 基本上通通是合規的 |
| 01:36:47,000 | 01:36:49,000 | 所以他 |
| 01:36:49,000 | 01:36:51,000 | 基本上合法合規 |
| 01:36:51,000 | 01:36:53,000 | 然後自主檢驗非常嚴格 |
| 01:36:53,000 | 01:36:55,000 | 又合情合理 |
| 01:36:55,000 | 01:36:57,000 | 讓所有消費者能夠安心 |
| 01:36:57,000 | 01:36:59,000 | 所以覺得這次 |
| 01:36:59,000 | 01:37:01,000 | 針對中油紙事件 |
| 01:37:01,000 | 01:37:03,000 | 台湯的經營 |
| 01:37:03,000 | 01:37:05,000 | 治理跟風險控管表現得還可以 |
| 01:37:07,000 | 01:37:09,000 | 是的 |
| 01:37:09,000 | 01:37:11,000 | 請教一下副總蔡副總 |
| 01:37:11,000 | 01:37:13,000 | 那外界指引你們 |
| 01:37:13,000 | 01:37:15,000 | 什麼你覺得在 |
| 01:37:15,000 | 01:37:17,000 | 經營治理跟風險控管的部分 |
| 01:37:17,000 | 01:37:19,000 | 貴公司做得怎麼樣 |
| 01:37:19,000 | 01:37:21,000 | 台湯公司一直以來 |
| 01:37:21,000 | 01:37:23,000 | 都是用最嚴格的標準 |
| 01:37:23,000 | 01:37:25,000 | 再訂定我們的標準 |
| 01:37:25,000 | 01:37:27,000 | 所以你基本上做到 |
| 01:37:27,000 | 01:37:29,000 | 合法 |
| 01:37:29,000 | 01:37:31,000 | 合規也做到兼顧合情合理 |
| 01:37:31,000 | 01:37:33,000 | 是 |
| 01:37:33,000 | 01:37:35,000 | 問心無愧 |
| 01:37:35,000 | 01:37:37,000 | 第三方是食藥署 |
| 01:37:37,000 | 01:37:39,000 | 食藥署也 |
| 01:37:39,000 | 01:37:41,000 | 高頻率的去檢驗 |
| 01:37:41,000 | 01:37:43,000 | 食藥署檢驗了幾次 |
| 01:37:43,000 | 01:37:45,000 | 我們 |
| 01:37:45,000 | 01:37:47,000 | 超過十次以上 |
| 01:37:47,000 | 01:37:49,000 | 而且在短時間之內 |
| 01:37:49,000 | 01:37:51,000 | 我們在 |
| 01:37:51,000 | 01:37:53,000 | 這一次的事件之後 |
| 01:37:53,000 | 01:37:55,000 | 再一次去確認 |
| 01:37:55,000 | 01:37:57,000 | 不只是在台湯其他的三家 |
| 01:37:57,000 | 01:37:59,000 | 檢查結果如何 |
| 01:37:59,000 | 01:38:01,000 | 檢查結果都是合規的 |
| 01:38:01,000 | 01:38:03,000 | 合不成7個檢體 |
| 01:38:03,000 | 01:38:05,000 | 他做到合法 |
| 01:38:05,000 | 01:38:07,000 | 合規合情合理 |
| 01:38:07,000 | 01:38:09,000 | 是不是這樣子 |
| 01:38:09,000 | 01:38:11,000 | 所以不管是從 |
| 01:38:11,000 | 01:38:13,000 | 台湯或者都島台湯的 |
| 01:38:13,000 | 01:38:15,000 | 經濟部或者第三方的食藥署 |
| 01:38:15,000 | 01:38:17,000 | 都認為在中年 |
| 01:38:17,000 | 01:38:19,000 | 油紙這個事件裡 |
| 01:38:19,000 | 01:38:21,000 | 台湯的經營治理跟風險控管沒有問題 |
| 01:38:23,000 | 01:38:25,000 | 報告也寫得很清楚 |
| 01:38:25,000 | 01:38:27,000 | 好我第一個 |
| 01:38:27,000 | 01:38:29,000 | 再看一下我的這個 |
| 01:38:29,000 | 01:38:31,000 | 給經濟部的建議 |
| 01:38:35,000 | 01:38:37,000 | 不是 |
| 01:38:37,000 | 01:38:39,000 | 下一張 |
| 01:38:39,000 | 01:38:41,000 | 不是 |
| 01:38:41,000 | 01:38:43,000 | 下一張 |
| 01:38:43,000 | 01:38:45,000 | 這個 |
| 01:38:45,000 | 01:38:47,000 | 不是這剛才那一張 |
| 01:38:47,000 | 01:38:49,000 | 跟這個 |
| 01:38:49,000 | 01:38:51,000 | 南橋裁罰的理由 |
| 01:38:51,000 | 01:38:53,000 | 台北市衛生局 |
| 01:38:53,000 | 01:38:55,000 | 他裁罰理由是什麼 |
| 01:38:55,000 | 01:38:57,000 | 署長 |
| 01:38:57,000 | 01:38:59,000 | 我跟你講 |
| 01:38:59,000 | 01:39:01,000 | 就針對台北市裁罰南橋理由 |
| 01:39:01,000 | 01:39:03,000 | 南橋是買了 |
| 01:39:03,000 | 01:39:05,000 | 中聯電油的成品的油 |
| 01:39:05,000 | 01:39:07,000 | 跟台湯的問題的本質 |
| 01:39:07,000 | 01:39:09,000 | 是不一樣的 |
| 01:39:09,000 | 01:39:11,000 | 一個是要買回來經驗 |
| 01:39:11,000 | 01:39:13,000 | 一個是成品的油要給人家使用 |
| 01:39:13,000 | 01:39:15,000 | 或者是要來做價格 |
| 01:39:15,000 | 01:39:17,000 | 所以外界把它混起來一起打 |
| 01:39:17,000 | 01:39:19,000 | 這完全是不同的 |
| 01:39:19,000 | 01:39:21,000 | 所以經濟部的報告 |
| 01:39:21,000 | 01:39:23,000 | 給立法院報告裡面 |
| 01:39:23,000 | 01:39:25,000 | 根本合法 |
| 01:39:25,000 | 01:39:27,000 | 合規合齊合理 |
| 01:39:27,000 | 01:39:29,000 | 然後 |
| 01:39:29,000 | 01:39:31,000 | 把這個據說的異常的批示 |
| 01:39:31,000 | 01:39:33,000 | 跟使用問題的 |
| 01:39:33,000 | 01:39:35,000 | 油品混為一談 |
| 01:39:35,000 | 01:39:37,000 | 把兩件完全 |
| 01:39:37,000 | 01:39:39,000 | 本質不一樣的事情 |
| 01:39:39,000 | 01:39:41,000 | 去混為一談 |
| 01:39:41,000 | 01:39:43,000 | 造成這個民眾的錯誤認知 |
| 01:39:43,000 | 01:39:45,000 | 對台湯的商議 |
| 01:39:45,000 | 01:39:47,000 | 是一個非常大的影響 |
| 01:39:47,000 | 01:39:49,000 | 副總你有跟他委屈嗎 |
| 01:39:51,000 | 01:39:53,000 | 是謝謝委員 |
| 01:39:53,000 | 01:39:55,000 | 那你被外界這樣子 |
| 01:39:55,000 | 01:39:57,000 | 混起來一起打 |
| 01:39:57,000 | 01:39:59,000 | 你固然覺得委屈 |
| 01:39:59,000 | 01:40:01,000 | 但是你對商議要不要求償 |
| 01:40:01,000 | 01:40:03,000 | 這個我們事後會 |
| 01:40:03,000 | 01:40:05,000 | 跟律師這邊來做檢討 |
| 01:40:05,000 | 01:40:07,000 | 所以不管是台湯 |
| 01:40:07,000 | 01:40:09,000 | 或者是經濟部 |
| 01:40:09,000 | 01:40:11,000 | 應該把這兩件事情的本質 |
| 01:40:11,000 | 01:40:13,000 | 跟市民的本質 |
| 01:40:13,000 | 01:40:15,000 | 去做檢討 |
| 01:40:15,000 | 01:40:17,000 | 所以這兩件事情的本質 |
| 01:40:17,000 | 01:40:19,000 | 跟大家清楚的說明 |
| 01:40:19,000 | 01:40:21,000 | 這完全不一樣的事情 |
| 01:40:21,000 | 01:40:23,000 | 你把它混起來一起打 |
| 01:40:23,000 | 01:40:25,000 | 混淆這個民眾 |
| 01:40:25,000 | 01:40:27,000 | 讓民眾產生憂慮 |
| 01:40:27,000 | 01:40:29,000 | 跟不安心 |
| 01:40:31,000 | 01:40:33,000 | 我覺得是別有動機 |
| 01:40:33,000 | 01:40:35,000 | 動機可異 |
| 01:40:35,000 | 01:40:37,000 | 那部長 |
| 01:40:37,000 | 01:40:39,000 | 你覺得這個部分要不要再做一些 |
| 01:40:39,000 | 01:40:41,000 | 的說明 |
| 01:40:41,000 | 01:40:43,000 | 是 報告委員事實上我們一再說明 |
| 01:40:43,000 | 01:40:45,000 | 就是說這是兩回事 |
| 01:40:45,000 | 01:40:47,000 | 一個是半成品的 |
| 01:40:47,000 | 01:40:49,000 | 而且311那桶 |
| 01:40:49,000 | 01:40:51,000 | 的出油 |
| 01:40:51,000 | 01:40:53,000 | 基本上還在中聯裡面沒有 |
| 01:40:53,000 | 01:40:55,000 | 交易出來 |
| 01:40:55,000 | 01:40:57,000 | 因為台湯跟他講說 |
| 01:40:57,000 | 01:40:59,000 | 你這個可能不符合我們的標準 |
| 01:40:59,000 | 01:41:01,000 | 所以他可能也沒有賣 |
| 01:41:01,000 | 01:41:03,000 | 他賣出來是其他的 |
| 01:41:03,000 | 01:41:05,000 | 不合格的 |
| 01:41:05,000 | 01:41:07,000 | 那這個不合格的就是中聯事實上 |
| 01:41:07,000 | 01:41:09,000 | 真的是不良廠商 |
| 01:41:09,000 | 01:41:11,000 | 所以該譴責的是中聯 |
| 01:41:11,000 | 01:41:13,000 | 我覺得是 |
| 01:41:13,000 | 01:41:15,000 | 因為台湯公司不可能 |
| 01:41:15,000 | 01:41:17,000 | 是查他所有的油 |
| 01:41:17,000 | 01:41:19,000 | 其他的單位應該要 |
| 01:41:19,000 | 01:41:21,000 | 比較積極的去檢查其他的油才對 |
| 01:41:21,000 | 01:41:23,000 | 讓他不敢賣出來 |
| 01:41:23,000 | 01:41:25,000 | 所以問題是中聯嘛 對不對 |
| 01:41:25,000 | 01:41:27,000 | 所以台湯有沒有覺得 |
| 01:41:27,000 | 01:41:29,000 | 我做到要死 還有人也要死 |
| 01:41:29,000 | 01:41:31,000 | 我 |
| 01:41:31,000 | 01:41:33,000 | 窮盡所能去維護這個食安 |
| 01:41:35,000 | 01:41:37,000 | 法律相關的規定我全部遵守 |
| 01:41:37,000 | 01:41:39,000 | 而且要加強去辦理 |
| 01:41:39,000 | 01:41:41,000 | 結果還是被外界這個混為一談 |
| 01:41:43,000 | 01:41:45,000 | 這個是 |
| 01:41:45,000 | 01:41:47,000 | 這個要強力的去 |
| 01:41:47,000 | 01:41:49,000 | 回應 |
| 01:41:49,000 | 01:41:51,000 | 要訴諸法律 |
| 01:41:51,000 | 01:41:53,000 | 如果對台湯的商譽 |
| 01:41:53,000 | 01:41:55,000 | 或是收益造成很大的影響的話 |
| 01:41:55,000 | 01:41:57,000 | 這個台湯也要考慮 |
| 01:41:57,000 | 01:41:59,000 | 好 再下一張標準 |
| 01:41:59,000 | 01:42:01,000 | 這個 |
| 01:42:01,000 | 01:42:03,000 | 出油有沒有訂這個標準 |
| 01:42:03,000 | 01:42:05,000 | 通報義務怎麼認定 |
| 01:42:05,000 | 01:42:07,000 | 我想請問一下江署長 |
| 01:42:07,000 | 01:42:09,000 | 這個是在 |
| 01:42:09,000 | 01:42:11,000 | 製程中的一項還沒有 |
| 01:42:11,000 | 01:42:13,000 | 決定要給民眾吃的 |
| 01:42:13,000 | 01:42:15,000 | 要經過精煉 所以是沒有訂標準 |
| 01:42:15,000 | 01:42:17,000 | 訂的標準一定成品是可吃的 |
| 01:42:19,000 | 01:42:21,000 | 那如果是按照相關的法律規定 |
| 01:42:21,000 | 01:42:23,000 | 通報的前提是 |
| 01:42:23,000 | 01:42:25,000 | 有危害衛生安全之虞嗎 |
| 01:42:27,000 | 01:42:29,000 | 這邊先委員說明一下 |
| 01:42:29,000 | 01:42:31,000 | 之前韓市講的是 |
| 01:42:31,000 | 01:42:33,000 | 蘇丹紅 |
| 01:42:33,000 | 01:42:35,000 | 蘇丹紅是不能添加的 |
| 01:42:35,000 | 01:42:37,000 | 跟這個第15條第三款 |
| 01:42:37,000 | 01:42:39,000 | 跟這個不一樣 |
| 01:42:39,000 | 01:42:41,000 | 這是第7條第5項的 |
| 01:42:41,000 | 01:42:43,000 | 它沒有任何還沒有進入我們的 |
| 01:42:43,000 | 01:42:45,000 | 是不一樣的 |
| 01:42:45,000 | 01:42:47,000 | 沒有違反第7條第5項 |
| 01:42:47,000 | 01:42:49,000 | 所謂危害衛生安全之虞 |
| 01:42:49,000 | 01:42:51,000 | 因為這個根本就還沒有 |
| 01:42:51,000 | 01:42:53,000 | 完全不一樣 |
| 01:42:53,000 | 01:42:55,000 | 所以我覺得這個 |
| 01:42:55,000 | 01:42:57,000 | 也要去做一個說明 |
| 01:42:57,000 | 01:42:59,000 | 這兩件事情完全不一樣 |
| 01:42:59,000 | 01:43:01,000 | 就跟那個中聯營 |
| 01:43:01,000 | 01:43:03,000 | 或是跟台湯這個事情 |
| 01:43:03,000 | 01:43:05,000 | 完全不一樣的性質 |
| 01:43:05,000 | 01:43:07,000 | 跟委員報告一下 我這邊其實是 |
| 01:43:07,000 | 01:43:09,000 | 要再次強烈的 我在署內 |
| 01:43:09,000 | 01:43:11,000 | 一個多月來 我們強力的 |
| 01:43:11,000 | 01:43:13,000 | 譴責中聯 |
| 01:43:13,000 | 01:43:15,000 | 但是我並沒有聽到大家對 |
| 01:43:15,000 | 01:43:17,000 | 中聯一致的譴責 |
| 01:43:17,000 | 01:43:19,000 | 這件事情其實是我們很痛心 |
| 01:43:19,000 | 01:43:21,000 | 的一件事情 因為我們所有的員工 |
| 01:43:21,000 | 01:43:23,000 | 同仁們持續努力為 |
| 01:43:23,000 | 01:43:25,000 | 食品安全而把關 |
| 01:43:25,000 | 01:43:27,000 | TFD的同仁們去找出 |
| 01:43:27,000 | 01:43:29,000 | 所有的細節 |
| 01:43:29,000 | 01:43:31,000 | 把它精緻的區分 科學的區分 |
| 01:43:31,000 | 01:43:33,000 | 讓民眾能夠安心安全這個過程當中 |
| 01:43:33,000 | 01:43:35,000 | 我們對中聯的 |
| 01:43:35,000 | 01:43:37,000 | 譴責 以三家公司的譴責 |
| 01:43:37,000 | 01:43:39,000 | 我們不斷的說出來 |
| 01:43:39,000 | 01:43:41,000 | 可是我沒有聽到大家對於 |
| 01:43:41,000 | 01:43:43,000 | 中聯的譴責 這是讓我比較痛心的地方 |
| 01:43:43,000 | 01:43:45,000 | 我在這邊譴責 |
| 01:43:47,000 | 01:43:49,000 | 謝謝委員 |
| 01:43:49,000 | 01:43:51,000 | 強力譴責 |
| 01:43:51,000 | 01:43:53,000 | 部長 請教像這個電價 |
| 01:43:53,000 | 01:43:55,000 | 因為10月份 |
| 01:43:55,000 | 01:43:57,000 | 電價可能會動漲 |
| 01:43:57,000 | 01:43:59,000 | 對不對 |
| 01:43:59,000 | 01:44:01,000 | 不是你說了算 |
| 01:44:01,000 | 01:44:03,000 | 神應委員會 |
| 01:44:03,000 | 01:44:05,000 | 動漲機會蠻大的 |
| 01:44:05,000 | 01:44:07,000 | 但如果這樣動漲的話 |
| 01:44:07,000 | 01:44:09,000 | 對台電的財務會造成更大的影響 |
| 01:44:09,000 | 01:44:11,000 | 那有沒有追加預算 |
| 01:44:11,000 | 01:44:13,000 | 來撥補台電的 |
| 01:44:13,000 | 01:44:15,000 | 虧損的計畫 |
| 01:44:15,000 | 01:44:17,000 | 是 |
| 01:44:17,000 | 01:44:19,000 | 因為照顧民生穩定 |
| 01:44:19,000 | 01:44:21,000 | 物價 |
| 01:44:21,000 | 01:44:23,000 | 這是我們最大的目標 |
| 01:44:23,000 | 01:44:25,000 | 政策 |
| 01:44:25,000 | 01:44:27,000 | 但台電也不能倒 |
| 01:44:27,000 | 01:44:29,000 | 所以這個部分 |
| 01:44:29,000 | 01:44:31,000 | 我們的確是有跟主委總處 |
| 01:44:31,000 | 01:44:33,000 | 在討論這件事情 |
| 01:44:33,000 | 01:44:35,000 | 是不是可以透過 |
| 01:44:35,000 | 01:44:37,000 | 什麼樣的形式 |
| 01:44:37,000 | 01:44:39,000 | 現在正在進行中 |
| 01:44:39,000 | 01:44:41,000 | 透過追加預算的撥補台電 |
| 01:44:41,000 | 01:44:43,000 | 因為動漲造成損失 |
| 01:44:43,000 | 01:44:45,000 | 維持民生電價的 |
| 01:44:45,000 | 01:44:47,000 | 穩定 |
| 01:44:47,000 | 01:44:49,000 | 讓民眾安心 這個是我們最大的共識 |
| 01:44:49,000 | 01:44:51,000 | 另外 |
| 01:44:51,000 | 01:44:53,000 | 台電也不能讓它倒 |
| 01:44:53,000 | 01:44:55,000 | 也不能讓財務結構一再惡化 |
| 01:44:55,000 | 01:44:57,000 | 這部分我想還是要跟主委總處 |
| 01:44:57,000 | 01:44:59,000 | 更新一點多加支持 |
| 01:44:59,000 | 01:45:01,000 | 謝謝 |
| 01:45:01,000 | 01:45:03,000 | 好 |
| 01:45:03,000 | 01:45:05,000 | 謝謝協助委員 |
| 01:45:05,000 | 01:45:07,000 | 謝謝部長 署長跟台長 |
| 01:45:07,000 | 01:45:09,000 | 接下來我們有請謝一鳳委員 |
| 01:45:09,000 | 01:45:11,000 | 資訊 |
| 01:45:21,000 | 01:45:23,000 | 好 謝謝主席 |
| 01:45:23,000 | 01:45:25,000 | 我們有請 |
| 01:45:25,000 | 01:45:27,000 | 恐怖長還有我們食藥署的江署長 |
| 01:45:27,000 | 01:45:29,000 | 恐怖長食藥署江署長 |
| 01:45:33,000 | 01:45:35,000 | 謝署長好 |
| 01:45:35,000 | 01:45:37,000 | 我想要先問一下 |
| 01:45:37,000 | 01:45:39,000 | 署長 |
| 01:45:39,000 | 01:45:41,000 | 現在什麼油 |
| 01:45:41,000 | 01:45:43,000 | 可以喝 |
| 01:45:43,000 | 01:45:45,000 | 現在什麼油 |
| 01:45:45,000 | 01:45:47,000 | 你盡力的檢查 |
| 01:45:47,000 | 01:45:49,000 | 我們現在到底食用油 |
| 01:45:49,000 | 01:45:51,000 | 我們食用油從大豆油 |
| 01:45:51,000 | 01:45:53,000 | 從我們的酥炸油 |
| 01:45:53,000 | 01:45:55,000 | 到我們進一步的橄欖油 |
| 01:45:55,000 | 01:45:57,000 | 所以一系列的油裡面 |
| 01:45:57,000 | 01:45:59,000 | 我們目前看到大豆油經過 |
| 01:45:59,000 | 01:46:01,000 | 60% |
| 01:46:01,000 | 01:46:03,000 | 各種油其實是 |
| 01:46:03,000 | 01:46:05,000 | 現在所有油都可以喝 |
| 01:46:05,000 | 01:46:07,000 | 對 油都是 |
| 01:46:07,000 | 01:46:09,000 | 平常都不敢喝 |
| 01:46:09,000 | 01:46:11,000 | 平常不會特別去喝油 |
| 01:46:11,000 | 01:46:13,000 | 這件事情我們是支持 |
| 01:46:13,000 | 01:46:15,000 | 主菜當然不會喝油 |
| 01:46:15,000 | 01:46:17,000 | 大家都不敢吃 |
| 01:46:17,000 | 01:46:19,000 | 是不是 |
| 01:46:19,000 | 01:46:21,000 | 我們這個扁平皮 |
| 01:46:21,000 | 01:46:23,000 | 我們有一個英文叫做 |
| 01:46:23,000 | 01:46:25,000 | 盡量讓它能夠達到比較合理的標準 |
| 01:46:25,000 | 01:46:27,000 | 所以我們定油的時候 |
| 01:46:27,000 | 01:46:29,000 | 是定2PPB |
| 01:46:29,000 | 01:46:31,000 | 全世界最嚴格的 |
| 01:46:31,000 | 01:46:33,000 | 所以就是因為這麼嚴格的 |
| 01:46:33,000 | 01:46:35,000 | 所以我們希望我們廠商都能夠達到這個效果 |
| 01:46:35,000 | 01:46:37,000 | 目前我們驗起來 |
| 01:46:37,000 | 01:46:39,000 | 幾乎所有的 |
| 01:46:39,000 | 01:46:41,000 | 連這次的中聯之後事件 |
| 01:46:41,000 | 01:46:43,000 | 我們也看起來都目前都在合格的範圍內 |
| 01:46:43,000 | 01:46:45,000 | 那我們持續努力 |
| 01:46:45,000 | 01:46:47,000 | 如果現在台湯 |
| 01:46:47,000 | 01:46:49,000 | 他們說下半年 |
| 01:46:49,000 | 01:46:51,000 | 他停購出油 |
| 01:46:51,000 | 01:46:53,000 | 那他自己 |
| 01:46:53,000 | 01:46:55,000 | 來自主進口黃豆 |
| 01:46:55,000 | 01:46:57,000 | 來產生就是這樣子 |
| 01:46:57,000 | 01:46:59,000 | 他的出油 |
| 01:46:59,000 | 01:47:01,000 | 那我想要問你的是 |
| 01:47:01,000 | 01:47:03,000 | 其他油廠可不可以按照這樣子 |
| 01:47:03,000 | 01:47:05,000 | 那其他油廠 |
| 01:47:05,000 | 01:47:07,000 | 到底有多少的油廠 |
| 01:47:07,000 | 01:47:09,000 | 需要經過這樣子相關的檢驗 |
| 01:47:09,000 | 01:47:11,000 | 我想 |
| 01:47:11,000 | 01:47:13,000 | 所有油廠對於他們 |
| 01:47:13,000 | 01:47:15,000 | 現在出品到市場 |
| 01:47:15,000 | 01:47:17,000 | 都要符合2PPB這件事情 |
| 01:47:17,000 | 01:47:19,000 | 是人盡皆知 |
| 01:47:19,000 | 01:47:21,000 | 他們也不至於 |
| 01:47:21,000 | 01:47:23,000 | 我們也會全力的去做 |
| 01:47:23,000 | 01:47:25,000 | 持續的檢測跟檢驗 |
| 01:47:25,000 | 01:47:27,000 | 讓他達到標準 |
| 01:47:27,000 | 01:47:29,000 | 我想在這個階段裡面 |
| 01:47:29,000 | 01:47:31,000 | 這個市民安全衛生標準裡面 |
| 01:47:31,000 | 01:47:33,000 | 2PPB大家都清楚 |
| 01:47:33,000 | 01:47:35,000 | 也是我們要去努力的 |
| 01:47:35,000 | 01:47:37,000 | 都是一樣 |
| 01:47:37,000 | 01:47:39,000 | 通通都要 |
| 01:47:39,000 | 01:47:41,000 | 只要是油品的一律要符合這個標準 |
| 01:47:41,000 | 01:47:43,000 | 這是不變的 |
| 01:47:43,000 | 01:47:45,000 | 那油廠現在都已經有能夠 |
| 01:47:45,000 | 01:47:47,000 | 符合檢驗的這樣子的一個 |
| 01:47:47,000 | 01:47:49,000 | 實驗室嗎 |
| 01:47:49,000 | 01:47:51,000 | 實驗室 |
| 01:47:51,000 | 01:47:53,000 | 能夠驗出它的結果是最重要的 |
| 01:47:53,000 | 01:47:55,000 | 所以我們有需要所認證的 |
| 01:47:55,000 | 01:47:57,000 | 實驗室或認可的實驗室 |
| 01:47:57,000 | 01:47:59,000 | 都可以協助的 |
| 01:47:59,000 | 01:48:01,000 | 有沒有辦法協助地方政府 |
| 01:48:01,000 | 01:48:03,000 | 一路以來我們都是有協助 |
| 01:48:03,000 | 01:48:05,000 | 地方政府跟對於 |
| 01:48:05,000 | 01:48:07,000 | 所有能夠檢驗的認證 |
| 01:48:07,000 | 01:48:09,000 | 跟認可的實驗室能夠把量能 |
| 01:48:09,000 | 01:48:11,000 | 讓每一批的油 |
| 01:48:11,000 | 01:48:13,000 | 都希望能夠逐批達到 |
| 01:48:13,000 | 01:48:15,000 | 這樣子的檢驗的效果 |
| 01:48:15,000 | 01:48:17,000 | 讓民眾能夠安全又能夠安心 |
| 01:48:17,000 | 01:48:19,000 | 是我們能夠做的 |
| 01:48:19,000 | 01:48:21,000 | 部長我請教一下 |
| 01:48:21,000 | 01:48:23,000 | 台糖他說了 |
| 01:48:23,000 | 01:48:25,000 | 這一批原料是沒有進入 |
| 01:48:25,000 | 01:48:27,000 | 最後 |
| 01:48:27,000 | 01:48:29,000 | 最終產品了 |
| 01:48:29,000 | 01:48:31,000 | 那未來有沒有可能 |
| 01:48:31,000 | 01:48:33,000 | 台糖要建立主動通報 |
| 01:48:33,000 | 01:48:35,000 | 主管機關的 |
| 01:48:35,000 | 01:48:37,000 | 這樣子的一個目標 |
| 01:48:37,000 | 01:48:39,000 | 台糖現在 |
| 01:48:39,000 | 01:48:41,000 | 台糖現在他 |
| 01:48:41,000 | 01:48:43,000 | 下半年是要自己進 |
| 01:48:43,000 | 01:48:45,000 | 黃豆了 |
| 01:48:45,000 | 01:48:47,000 | 所以就沒有會去 |
| 01:48:47,000 | 01:48:49,000 | 檢驗其他公司的這個 |
| 01:48:49,000 | 01:48:51,000 | 產品的問題了 |
| 01:48:51,000 | 01:48:53,000 | 可是我現在說 |
| 01:48:53,000 | 01:48:55,000 | 未來他有沒有可能 |
| 01:48:55,000 | 01:48:57,000 | 就是說主動 |
| 01:48:57,000 | 01:48:59,000 | 通報主管機關被查 |
| 01:48:59,000 | 01:49:01,000 | 就食安這個部分 |
| 01:49:01,000 | 01:49:03,000 | 因為他沒有去檢驗別人 |
| 01:49:03,000 | 01:49:05,000 | 也沒有通報的問題 |
| 01:49:05,000 | 01:49:07,000 | 如果他自己檢驗出來合格 |
| 01:49:07,000 | 01:49:09,000 | 合格當然就會拋棄 |
| 01:49:09,000 | 01:49:11,000 | 或是精煉 |
| 01:49:11,000 | 01:49:13,000 | 讓他符合標準 |
| 01:49:13,000 | 01:49:15,000 | 那他進口的 |
| 01:49:15,000 | 01:49:17,000 | 我是說他進口這個 |
| 01:49:17,000 | 01:49:19,000 | 初豆裡面 |
| 01:49:19,000 | 01:49:21,000 | 他到底 |
| 01:49:21,000 | 01:49:23,000 | 現在有問題的就是說 |
| 01:49:23,000 | 01:49:25,000 | 是從巴西的那未來是從哪裡進口 |
| 01:49:27,000 | 01:49:29,000 | 還在思考 |
| 01:49:29,000 | 01:49:31,000 | 他的原料黃豆是從哪裡進口 |
| 01:49:31,000 | 01:49:33,000 | 那個台糖公司 |
| 01:49:33,000 | 01:49:35,000 | 是跟委員報告 |
| 01:49:35,000 | 01:49:37,000 | 一直以來台糖公司所進的黃豆 |
| 01:49:37,000 | 01:49:39,000 | 都是跟美國 |
| 01:49:39,000 | 01:49:41,000 | 買的都是美國北美的 |
| 01:49:41,000 | 01:49:43,000 | 這個黃豆 |
| 01:49:43,000 | 01:49:45,000 | 可是過去你們沒有 |
| 01:49:45,000 | 01:49:47,000 | 你們沒有把它用來做 |
| 01:49:47,000 | 01:49:49,000 | 使用油的那種 |
| 01:49:49,000 | 01:49:51,000 | 有我們都是 |
| 01:49:51,000 | 01:49:53,000 | 自己進黃豆壓榨成粗油 |
| 01:49:53,000 | 01:49:55,000 | 再把這個粗油精煉成 |
| 01:49:55,000 | 01:49:57,000 | 末端消費 |
| 01:49:57,000 | 01:49:59,000 | 大眾可以使用的大豆沙拉油 |
| 01:50:01,000 | 01:50:03,000 | 如果說我們產能不足 |
| 01:50:03,000 | 01:50:05,000 | 我們才會對外去採購粗油 |
| 01:50:07,000 | 01:50:09,000 | 他粗油他是一個中間的產品 |
| 01:50:09,000 | 01:50:11,000 | 如果說我們不夠的話 |
| 01:50:11,000 | 01:50:13,000 | 我們才會對外去採購 |
| 01:50:13,000 | 01:50:15,000 | 那這次我們會對外招標 |
| 01:50:15,000 | 01:50:17,000 | 就是我們的粗油量不夠 |
| 01:50:17,000 | 01:50:19,000 | 那我們必須要對外來採購 |
| 01:50:19,000 | 01:50:21,000 | 那採購發現 |
| 01:50:21,000 | 01:50:23,000 | 這個他不符合我們的招標規範 |
| 01:50:23,000 | 01:50:25,000 | 我們就拒收 |
| 01:50:25,000 | 01:50:27,000 | 等於說從頭到尾 |
| 01:50:27,000 | 01:50:29,000 | 這個油跟台糖公司 |
| 01:50:29,000 | 01:50:31,000 | 都沒有進來過 |
| 01:50:31,000 | 01:50:33,000 | 我們是拒收 |
| 01:50:33,000 | 01:50:35,000 | 那至於說他這個粗油 |
| 01:50:35,000 | 01:50:37,000 | 到底有沒有食品安全的標準 |
| 01:50:37,000 | 01:50:39,000 | 這個是沒有標準 |
| 01:50:39,000 | 01:50:41,000 | 所以沒有所謂大眾所誤解的 |
| 01:50:41,000 | 01:50:43,000 | 就是說超標啦 |
| 01:50:43,000 | 01:50:45,000 | 或者說超標七倍 |
| 01:50:45,000 | 01:50:47,000 | 他是沒有所謂超標的問題 |
| 01:50:47,000 | 01:50:49,000 | 所以台糖公司也無從去通報 |
| 01:50:49,000 | 01:50:51,000 | 不是不是我不是在說這個 |
| 01:50:51,000 | 01:50:53,000 | 因為我們是未來 |
| 01:50:53,000 | 01:50:55,000 | 就是說出口出去 |
| 01:50:55,000 | 01:50:57,000 | 就是說販售出去到 |
| 01:50:57,000 | 01:50:59,000 | 社會大眾的這個 |
| 01:50:59,000 | 01:51:01,000 | 油品的部分 |
| 01:51:01,000 | 01:51:03,000 | 當然希望說能夠符合 |
| 01:51:03,000 | 01:51:05,000 | 食安的這個標準嘛 |
| 01:51:05,000 | 01:51:07,000 | 那現在是不是根據 |
| 01:51:07,000 | 01:51:09,000 | 未來我們也要修訂食安法 |
| 01:51:09,000 | 01:51:11,000 | 那食安法是不是會 |
| 01:51:11,000 | 01:51:13,000 | 對於這個相關的規定裡面 |
| 01:51:13,000 | 01:51:15,000 | 你們要不要就是說 |
| 01:51:15,000 | 01:51:17,000 | 提供主動的申報的這樣子的一個 |
| 01:51:19,000 | 01:51:21,000 | 標準可能這個必須要有一些 |
| 01:51:21,000 | 01:51:23,000 | 科學上面的一些判定跟依據 |
| 01:51:23,000 | 01:51:25,000 | 來規範我們 |
| 01:51:25,000 | 01:51:27,000 | 粗油是不是要定定標準 |
| 01:51:27,000 | 01:51:29,000 | 我想這個也是目前 |
| 01:51:29,000 | 01:51:31,000 | 所有社會大眾的期待 |
| 01:51:31,000 | 01:51:33,000 | 那也是我們政府官員 |
| 01:51:33,000 | 01:51:35,000 | 的部分一直在努力的地方 |
| 01:51:35,000 | 01:51:37,000 | 好那江署長要不要 |
| 01:51:39,000 | 01:51:41,000 | 我說粗油 |
| 01:51:41,000 | 01:51:43,000 | 如果練一次練不成 |
| 01:51:43,000 | 01:51:45,000 | 練兩次練兩次練不成練三次 |
| 01:51:45,000 | 01:51:47,000 | 只要練到的是2pp |
| 01:51:47,000 | 01:51:49,000 | 以下這才是 |
| 01:51:49,000 | 01:51:51,000 | 一個符合科學精神 |
| 01:51:51,000 | 01:51:53,000 | 可是練一次練兩次 |
| 01:51:53,000 | 01:51:55,000 | 成本差很多 |
| 01:51:55,000 | 01:51:57,000 | 但是呢保障民眾食安安全 |
| 01:51:57,000 | 01:51:59,000 | 小一點pvp的油品 |
| 01:51:59,000 | 01:52:01,000 | 這是國家政策 |
| 01:52:01,000 | 01:52:03,000 | 以及法律的規定 |
| 01:52:03,000 | 01:52:05,000 | 所以剛才提到的中間要定多少 |
| 01:52:05,000 | 01:52:07,000 | 其實不是重點 |
| 01:52:07,000 | 01:52:09,000 | 是我要出去的時候是要多少 |
| 01:52:09,000 | 01:52:11,000 | 如果中間是多到 |
| 01:52:11,000 | 01:52:13,000 | 那請問訂出來的標準 |
| 01:52:13,000 | 01:52:15,000 | 之後14.7pp要做什麼用 |
| 01:52:15,000 | 01:52:17,000 | 中間不會訂就對了 |
| 01:52:17,000 | 01:52:19,000 | 我的意思說還可以討論 |
| 01:52:19,000 | 01:52:21,000 | 但是訂14.7pp訂出來然後勒 |
| 01:52:21,000 | 01:52:23,000 | 然後就認真練啊 |
| 01:52:23,000 | 01:52:25,000 | 練到精油可以小於2ppp才是方向 |
| 01:52:25,000 | 01:52:27,000 | 我知道啊那問題是就是說 |
| 01:52:27,000 | 01:52:29,000 | 所以訂這個標準的目的 |
| 01:52:29,000 | 01:52:31,000 | 是不是大小廠都有辦法 |
| 01:52:31,000 | 01:52:33,000 | 這個件事情 |
| 01:52:33,000 | 01:52:35,000 | 要去驗中間的原油廠 |
| 01:52:35,000 | 01:52:37,000 | 驗出來我們覺得 |
| 01:52:37,000 | 01:52:39,000 | 他是HACP |
| 01:52:39,000 | 01:52:41,000 | 裡面的一個重要的觀測點 |
| 01:52:41,000 | 01:52:43,000 | 決定你後續要怎麼練 |
| 01:52:43,000 | 01:52:45,000 | 因為一般練 |
| 01:52:45,000 | 01:52:47,000 | 可以練降低88% |
| 01:52:47,000 | 01:52:49,000 | 從 |
| 01:52:49,000 | 01:52:51,000 | 脫酸脫色脫臭 |
| 01:52:51,000 | 01:52:53,000 | 可以到88% |
| 01:52:53,000 | 01:52:55,000 | 如果加上我們的活性碳 |
| 01:52:55,000 | 01:52:57,000 | 可以更高 |
| 01:52:57,000 | 01:52:59,000 | 所以這個是一個點讓你知道 |
| 01:52:59,000 | 01:53:01,000 | know how |
| 01:53:01,000 | 01:53:03,000 | 接下來要怎麼做下去的 |
| 01:53:03,000 | 01:53:05,000 | 如果你訂了一個標準是一個國家要去裁罰的標準 |
| 01:53:05,000 | 01:53:07,000 | 這批油決定要把丟掉 |
| 01:53:07,000 | 01:53:09,000 | 或者是不能夠成為人類 |
| 01:53:09,000 | 01:53:11,000 | 使用的 |
| 01:53:11,000 | 01:53:13,000 | 那個是反科學的 |
| 01:53:13,000 | 01:53:15,000 | 如果我們要清楚了他是有方法 |
| 01:53:15,000 | 01:53:17,000 | 可以下來可以 |
| 01:53:17,000 | 01:53:19,000 | 練下來所以我們一定要讓各個廠 |
| 01:53:19,000 | 01:53:21,000 | 訂出來的標準作業流程的時候 |
| 01:53:21,000 | 01:53:23,000 | 能夠達到這樣的目的 |
| 01:53:23,000 | 01:53:25,000 | 以及 |
| 01:53:25,000 | 01:53:27,000 | 的結果就是 |
| 01:53:27,000 | 01:53:29,000 | 盡可能的把它降到 |
| 01:53:29,000 | 01:53:31,000 | 合理的低 |
| 01:53:31,000 | 01:53:33,000 | 2ppv以上這是我們所要努力的方向 |
| 01:53:33,000 | 01:53:35,000 | 因為我們現在 |
| 01:53:35,000 | 01:53:37,000 | 提到了因為台糖過去 |
| 01:53:37,000 | 01:53:39,000 | 在食品的管控上面 |
| 01:53:39,000 | 01:53:41,000 | 一向是受到大家的 |
| 01:53:41,000 | 01:53:43,000 | 就是重視以及尊重 |
| 01:53:43,000 | 01:53:45,000 | 當然我們希望說 |
| 01:53:45,000 | 01:53:47,000 | 台糖的食品安全的監測計畫 |
| 01:53:47,000 | 01:53:49,000 | 是不是能夠提到最高的 |
| 01:53:49,000 | 01:53:51,000 | 等級因為這樣子也 |
| 01:53:51,000 | 01:53:53,000 | 符合就是說國營事業的 |
| 01:53:53,000 | 01:53:55,000 | 相關的食品 |
| 01:53:55,000 | 01:53:57,000 | 能夠受到民眾的信賴 |
| 01:53:57,000 | 01:53:59,000 | 那這個部分有沒有辦法 |
| 01:53:59,000 | 01:54:01,000 | 就油品的部分 |
| 01:54:01,000 | 01:54:03,000 | 本署一定會積極的輔導 |
| 01:54:03,000 | 01:54:05,000 | 協助台糖在油片裡面 |
| 01:54:05,000 | 01:54:07,000 | 發揮這個效果 |
| 01:54:07,000 | 01:54:09,000 | 他是國營企業是不是 |
| 01:54:09,000 | 01:54:11,000 | 能夠讓他的食品 |
| 01:54:11,000 | 01:54:13,000 | 安全監控的計畫 |
| 01:54:13,000 | 01:54:15,000 | 能夠提到最高的等級 |
| 01:54:15,000 | 01:54:17,000 | 是那台糖公司 |
| 01:54:17,000 | 01:54:19,000 | 我剛剛也報告台糖公司是 |
| 01:54:19,000 | 01:54:21,000 | 用最嚴格的方式在訂定我們的 |
| 01:54:21,000 | 01:54:23,000 | 標準收入流程 |
| 01:54:23,000 | 01:54:25,000 | 所以我們對於原料的要求 |
| 01:54:25,000 | 01:54:27,000 | 我們自己的採購標準也定得非常 |
| 01:54:27,000 | 01:54:29,000 | 嚴格那我想這個部分是沒有 |
| 01:54:29,000 | 01:54:31,000 | 問題的所以沒有問題是不是 |
| 01:54:31,000 | 01:54:33,000 | 好那希望說未來 |
| 01:54:33,000 | 01:54:35,000 | 我們能夠提高我們 |
| 01:54:35,000 | 01:54:37,000 | 台糖的這個 |
| 01:54:37,000 | 01:54:39,000 | 食用油的還有就是說 |
| 01:54:39,000 | 01:54:41,000 | 的各項的食品安全 |
| 01:54:41,000 | 01:54:43,000 | 的監測計畫到最高等級讓 |
| 01:54:43,000 | 01:54:45,000 | 民眾都可以安心好不好 |
| 01:54:45,000 | 01:54:47,000 | 好謝謝委員 |
| 01:54:47,000 | 01:54:49,000 | 好謝謝謝鳳委員 |
| 01:54:49,000 | 01:54:51,000 | 謝謝部長署長 |
| 01:54:51,000 | 01:54:53,000 | 好 |
| 01:54:53,000 | 01:54:55,000 | 接下來有請陳昭之委員 |
| 01:54:55,000 | 01:54:57,000 | 質詢 |
| 01:55:01,000 | 01:55:03,000 | 謝謝主席 |
| 01:55:03,000 | 01:55:05,000 | 有請經濟部公部長 |
| 01:55:05,000 | 01:55:07,000 | 台糖副總經理 |
| 01:55:07,000 | 01:55:09,000 | 蔡副總經理還有食藥署 |
| 01:55:09,000 | 01:55:11,000 | 江署長 |
| 01:55:11,000 | 01:55:13,000 | 有請經濟部食藥署跟 |
| 01:55:13,000 | 01:55:15,000 | 台糖 蔡副總經理好 |
| 01:55:15,000 | 01:55:17,000 | 大家好 三位署長好我先 |
| 01:55:17,000 | 01:55:19,000 | 請教這個這個江署長 |
| 01:55:19,000 | 01:55:21,000 | 因為我剛進來的時候 |
| 01:55:21,000 | 01:55:23,000 | 我聽到您講了一句話 |
| 01:55:23,000 | 01:55:25,000 | 您說好像 |
| 01:55:25,000 | 01:55:27,000 | 食藥署的工作同仁都非常的辛苦 |
| 01:55:27,000 | 01:55:29,000 | 這個我相信也是遇到 |
| 01:55:29,000 | 01:55:31,000 | 這麼大的事情可是大家都 |
| 01:55:31,000 | 01:55:33,000 | 沒有譴責台中聯 |
| 01:55:33,000 | 01:55:35,000 | 如果我沒有聽錯的話那 |
| 01:55:35,000 | 01:55:37,000 | 石處長你這個 |
| 01:55:37,000 | 01:55:39,000 | 江署長你有點失憶喔在案 |
| 01:55:39,000 | 01:55:41,000 | 案發的時候第一次在委員會質詢 |
| 01:55:41,000 | 01:55:43,000 | 而且我接著的這個 |
| 01:55:43,000 | 01:55:45,000 | 專題報告我也繼續在談一樣 |
| 01:55:45,000 | 01:55:47,000 | 的問題我剛開始就告訴你們 |
| 01:55:47,000 | 01:55:49,000 | 為什麼因為中聯有 |
| 01:55:49,000 | 01:55:51,000 | 很大的問題他先出貨 |
| 01:55:51,000 | 01:55:53,000 | 再檢驗我 |
| 01:55:53,000 | 01:55:55,000 | 一直問可以這樣嗎 |
| 01:55:55,000 | 01:55:57,000 | 有人先賣出去再來檢驗 |
| 01:55:57,000 | 01:55:59,000 | 但你們沒有人敢回答我 |
| 01:55:59,000 | 01:56:01,000 | 然後你們大部分 |
| 01:56:01,000 | 01:56:03,000 | 而且我一直在問 |
| 01:56:03,000 | 01:56:05,000 | 中聯有同批流樣 |
| 01:56:05,000 | 01:56:07,000 | 的產品 |
| 01:56:07,000 | 01:56:09,000 | 但是一次檢驗1.6一次檢驗 |
| 01:56:09,000 | 01:56:11,000 | 4點多一次檢驗8點多 |
| 01:56:11,000 | 01:56:13,000 | 發生什麼事 |
| 01:56:13,000 | 01:56:15,000 | 我當時就鎖定是檢驗 |
| 01:56:15,000 | 01:56:17,000 | 當中出了問題檢驗分 |
| 01:56:17,000 | 01:56:19,000 | 兩個步驟一個 |
| 01:56:19,000 | 01:56:21,000 | 是取樣一個是檢驗 |
| 01:56:21,000 | 01:56:23,000 | 取樣誰去取樣 |
| 01:56:23,000 | 01:56:25,000 | 是誰取樣取樣有沒有問題 |
| 01:56:25,000 | 01:56:27,000 | 檢驗有沒有作弊 |
| 01:56:27,000 | 01:56:29,000 | 是不是一直驗驗到不合格才可 |
| 01:56:29,000 | 01:56:31,000 | 把報告交出來我 |
| 01:56:31,000 | 01:56:33,000 | 一直鎖定這幾個點 |
| 01:56:33,000 | 01:56:35,000 | 但是部長跟你 |
| 01:56:35,000 | 01:56:37,000 | 那天我主責就是要問部長 |
| 01:56:37,000 | 01:56:39,000 | 部長一直把罪推到 |
| 01:56:39,000 | 01:56:41,000 | 南僑 |
| 01:56:41,000 | 01:56:43,000 | 如果不是今天南僑半個 |
| 01:56:43,000 | 01:56:45,000 | 吹哨人 |
| 01:56:45,000 | 01:56:47,000 | 能夠把這個事情揭發出來 |
| 01:56:47,000 | 01:56:49,000 | 今天大家都不知道 |
| 01:56:49,000 | 01:56:51,000 | 不知道為什麼死的 |
| 01:56:53,000 | 01:56:55,000 | 所以您是這個 |
| 01:56:55,000 | 01:56:57,000 | 學者我要跟你講流行 |
| 01:56:57,000 | 01:56:59,000 | 病學你也知道我現在已經不相信 |
| 01:56:59,000 | 01:57:01,000 | 台灣的流行病學了流行 |
| 01:57:01,000 | 01:57:03,000 | 病學是告訴我們生活的情態 |
| 01:57:03,000 | 01:57:05,000 | 我們吃的食物我們生活的方式 |
| 01:57:05,000 | 01:57:07,000 | 怎麼樣決定我們的健康狀態 |
| 01:57:07,000 | 01:57:09,000 | 但是我們現在都不知道 |
| 01:57:09,000 | 01:57:11,000 | 空氣污染也許不是你的事 |
| 01:57:11,000 | 01:57:13,000 | 但是食物裡面我們當 |
| 01:57:13,000 | 01:57:15,000 | 做它是健康的食物結果它是有毒的 |
| 01:57:15,000 | 01:57:17,000 | 所以署長 |
| 01:57:17,000 | 01:57:19,000 | 您剛剛在講是不公平的 |
| 01:57:19,000 | 01:57:21,000 | 我一直在抓中聯結果現在 |
| 01:57:21,000 | 01:57:23,000 | 中聯的人就被收押進建了 |
| 01:57:23,000 | 01:57:25,000 | 可見當時我一抓 |
| 01:57:25,000 | 01:57:27,000 | 就抓中聯因為那是我的專業 |
| 01:57:27,000 | 01:57:29,000 | 謝謝委員委員非常的 |
| 01:57:29,000 | 01:57:31,000 | 專業對剛才提到 |
| 01:57:31,000 | 01:57:33,000 | 油腺脈後驗這件事情 |
| 01:57:33,000 | 01:57:35,000 | 我想過去我們檢驗的週期 |
| 01:57:35,000 | 01:57:37,000 | 跟檢驗的頻率也是我們 |
| 01:57:37,000 | 01:57:39,000 | 這次修法的重點在所謂的 |
| 01:57:39,000 | 01:57:41,000 | 自主檢驗第一期 |
| 01:57:41,000 | 01:57:43,000 | 請等一下署長請等一下 |
| 01:57:43,000 | 01:57:45,000 | 當時沒有錯部長跟你 |
| 01:57:45,000 | 01:57:47,000 | 然後一直在 |
| 01:57:47,000 | 01:57:49,000 | 這個總質詢的時候這個部長 |
| 01:57:49,000 | 01:57:51,000 | 還講一樣他說每六個月檢查一次 |
| 01:57:51,000 | 01:57:53,000 | 我想請教你 |
| 01:57:53,000 | 01:57:55,000 | 每六個月總有第一次嘛 |
| 01:57:55,000 | 01:57:57,000 | 有了第一次才有六個月後嘛 |
| 01:57:57,000 | 01:57:59,000 | 請問那第一次發生 |
| 01:57:59,000 | 01:58:01,000 | 發生在什麼時候你知道小朋友打這個B肝疫苗 |
| 01:58:01,000 | 01:58:03,000 | 出生打一次 |
| 01:58:03,000 | 01:58:05,000 | 六個月後再打一次 |
| 01:58:05,000 | 01:58:07,000 | 每六個月這個 |
| 01:58:07,000 | 01:58:09,000 | 這個頻率也許可以 |
| 01:58:09,000 | 01:58:11,000 | 但不知道也許要改變 |
| 01:58:11,000 | 01:58:13,000 | 但總有第一次嘛第一次是什麼 |
| 01:58:13,000 | 01:58:15,000 | 時候每個第一次是什麼 |
| 01:58:15,000 | 01:58:17,000 | 買進來驗一次 |
| 01:58:17,000 | 01:58:19,000 | 交出去驗一次 |
| 01:58:19,000 | 01:58:21,000 | 如果大家都把這個工作做好今天會出問題嗎 |
| 01:58:21,000 | 01:58:23,000 | 收大到的時候驗一次 |
| 01:58:23,000 | 01:58:25,000 | 合不合格我賣給人家 |
| 01:58:25,000 | 01:58:27,000 | 驗一次這個是非常基本 |
| 01:58:27,000 | 01:58:29,000 | 的常識啊 |
| 01:58:29,000 | 01:58:31,000 | 謝謝委員這樣的執政 |
| 01:58:31,000 | 01:58:33,000 | 也是其實在修法裡面大家共同的議題 |
| 01:58:33,000 | 01:58:35,000 | 那如果用我們的 |
| 01:58:35,000 | 01:58:37,000 | 批次來檢驗這件事情 |
| 01:58:37,000 | 01:58:39,000 | 其實大家 |
| 01:58:39,000 | 01:58:41,000 | 你回去告訴不要再講 |
| 01:58:41,000 | 01:58:43,000 | 我們的頻率原來是六個月是因為 |
| 01:58:43,000 | 01:58:45,000 | 我們法你們不好要再做 |
| 01:58:45,000 | 01:58:47,000 | 總有零次多第一次嘛 |
| 01:58:47,000 | 01:58:49,000 | 你不是等到都外光了 |
| 01:58:49,000 | 01:58:51,000 | 才會有六個月才驗嘛 |
| 01:58:51,000 | 01:58:53,000 | 跟委員報告是用批次裡面 |
| 01:58:53,000 | 01:58:55,000 | 我們這次後來看到的 |
| 01:58:55,000 | 01:58:57,000 | 我們很勇敢的跟 |
| 01:58:57,000 | 01:58:59,000 | 委員講我們後來看到他驗 |
| 01:58:59,000 | 01:59:01,000 | 出去後來去驗了30批 |
| 01:59:01,000 | 01:59:03,000 | 用的是黃金檢體 |
| 01:59:03,000 | 01:59:05,000 | 也是被我們抓出來 |
| 01:59:05,000 | 01:59:07,000 | 所以他並不是那麼那麼的 |
| 01:59:07,000 | 01:59:09,000 | 守法的一個 |
| 01:59:09,000 | 01:59:11,000 | 中年就是用同一批最棒的油品 |
| 01:59:11,000 | 01:59:13,000 | 就是樣本有問題 |
| 01:59:13,000 | 01:59:15,000 | 然後拿去檢驗每次檢驗都合格 |
| 01:59:15,000 | 01:59:17,000 | 都棒的不得了請回 |
| 01:59:17,000 | 01:59:19,000 | 我想請問台糖 |
| 01:59:19,000 | 01:59:21,000 | 的副總無奶人 |
| 01:59:21,000 | 01:59:23,000 | 欠台糖1.7億 |
| 01:59:23,000 | 01:59:25,000 | 那是我們的錢 |
| 01:59:25,000 | 01:59:27,000 | 那歲人錢被管收 |
| 01:59:27,000 | 01:59:29,000 | 12天而已 |
| 01:59:29,000 | 01:59:31,000 | 我兒子可以免教召的他此刻 |
| 01:59:31,000 | 01:59:33,000 | 在教召中因為他的孩子才 |
| 01:59:33,000 | 01:59:35,000 | 1歲多他兩次免教召 |
| 01:59:35,000 | 01:59:37,000 | 無奶人被管收12天 |
| 01:59:37,000 | 01:59:39,000 | 而已1毛錢都沒有還之前 |
| 01:59:39,000 | 01:59:41,000 | 台糖竟然就 |
| 01:59:41,000 | 01:59:43,000 | 當庭撤回管收 |
| 01:59:43,000 | 01:59:45,000 | 放他出來逍遙他 |
| 01:59:45,000 | 01:59:47,000 | 出來有沒有逍遙大家都看到了 |
| 01:59:47,000 | 01:59:49,000 | 無奶人說絕對會還錢 |
| 01:59:49,000 | 01:59:51,000 | 他還加了一句 |
| 01:59:51,000 | 01:59:53,000 | 巴金森市政 |
| 01:59:53,000 | 01:59:55,000 | 請你們要這個理由的時候 |
| 01:59:55,000 | 01:59:57,000 | 每個人拿出醫師證明 |
| 01:59:57,000 | 01:59:59,000 | 巴金森市政不是你說了算 |
| 01:59:59,000 | 02:00:01,000 | 但是大概出來逍遙大家都看到了 |
| 02:00:01,000 | 02:00:03,000 | 無奶人說絕對會還錢 |
| 02:00:03,000 | 02:00:05,000 | 而且說7月22號前 |
| 02:00:05,000 | 02:00:07,000 | 會協商提出還款計畫 |
| 02:00:07,000 | 02:00:09,000 | 好我現在要請台糖 |
| 02:00:09,000 | 02:00:11,000 | 不要迴避清楚的告訴我 |
| 02:00:11,000 | 02:00:13,000 | 7月16號 |
| 02:00:13,000 | 02:00:15,000 | 無奶人提出什麼還款計畫 |
| 02:00:15,000 | 02:00:17,000 | 他提出什麼樣的還款計畫 |
| 02:00:17,000 | 02:00:19,000 | 多久還一次 |
| 02:00:19,000 | 02:00:21,000 | 一次還多少錢 |
| 02:00:21,000 | 02:00:23,000 | 這不是機密啊 |
| 02:00:23,000 | 02:00:25,000 | 他欠的是公款啊公糖啊 |
| 02:00:25,000 | 02:00:27,000 | 是各位委員報告 |
| 02:00:27,000 | 02:00:29,000 | 因為7月16號協商的時候 |
| 02:00:29,000 | 02:00:31,000 | 就是對方沒有提出 |
| 02:00:31,000 | 02:00:33,000 | 比較明確可我們台糖公司 |
| 02:00:33,000 | 02:00:35,000 | 可以接受的方案 |
| 02:00:35,000 | 02:00:37,000 | 所以我們還會繼續再協商 |
| 02:00:37,000 | 02:00:39,000 | 你要繼續協商 |
| 02:00:39,000 | 02:00:41,000 | 那為什麼放他走呢 |
| 02:00:41,000 | 02:00:43,000 | 為什麼放他走呢 |
| 02:00:43,000 | 02:00:45,000 | 當時在管收的時候 |
| 02:00:45,000 | 02:00:47,000 | 因為我們認為管收的目的 |
| 02:00:47,000 | 02:00:49,000 | 只是要請他出來還錢 |
| 02:00:49,000 | 02:00:51,000 | 因為我們歷次好幾次法院 |
| 02:00:51,000 | 02:00:53,000 | 管收的目的要他還錢 |
| 02:00:53,000 | 02:00:55,000 | 那請問這個案子已經60年了 |
| 02:00:55,000 | 02:00:57,000 | 第一個我要跟你計較時間 |
| 02:00:57,000 | 02:00:59,000 | 你是讓他有多少時間把台糖都脫光光了 |
| 02:00:59,000 | 02:01:01,000 | 第二個 |
| 02:01:01,000 | 02:01:03,000 | 目的要還錢 |
| 02:01:03,000 | 02:01:05,000 | 那你怎麼知道他要還錢 |
| 02:01:05,000 | 02:01:07,000 | 你怎麼放他走 |
| 02:01:07,000 | 02:01:09,000 | 你們的台糖訴訟團隊 |
| 02:01:09,000 | 02:01:11,000 | 認為無奶人提出的金額 |
| 02:01:11,000 | 02:01:13,000 | 實在太少了 |
| 02:01:13,000 | 02:01:15,000 | 看不到任何誠意 |
| 02:01:15,000 | 02:01:17,000 | 所以7月16號協商破局 |
| 02:01:17,000 | 02:01:19,000 | 那你現在怎麼辦 |
| 02:01:19,000 | 02:01:21,000 | 你的目的是要還錢 |
| 02:01:21,000 | 02:01:23,000 | 現在呢 |
| 02:01:23,000 | 02:01:25,000 | 現在是放他走目的是放他走 |
| 02:01:25,000 | 02:01:27,000 | 不管任何理由就放他走 |
| 02:01:27,000 | 02:01:29,000 | 他說有病就有病 |
| 02:01:29,000 | 02:01:31,000 | 他說他要還錢你就相信他 |
| 02:01:31,000 | 02:01:33,000 | 放他走是不是 |
| 02:01:33,000 | 02:01:35,000 | 沒有跟委員報告 |
| 02:01:35,000 | 02:01:37,000 | 這個案子在99年的時候 |
| 02:01:37,000 | 02:01:39,000 | 我們就已經向無奶 |
| 02:01:39,000 | 02:01:41,000 | 申請假扣要所有無奶人的 |
| 02:01:41,000 | 02:01:43,000 | 所有的財產 |
| 02:01:43,000 | 02:01:45,000 | 那從99年 |
| 02:01:45,000 | 02:01:47,000 | 這個假扣要開始到 |
| 02:01:47,000 | 02:01:49,000 | 109年這個 |
| 02:01:49,000 | 02:01:51,000 | 申請定義 |
| 02:01:51,000 | 02:01:53,000 | 就開始追償了 |
| 02:01:53,000 | 02:01:55,000 | 你現在在講99年案發的事情 |
| 02:01:55,000 | 02:01:57,000 | 你現在才在處理 |
| 02:01:57,000 | 02:01:59,000 | 一個管收也找不到人 |
| 02:01:59,000 | 02:02:01,000 | 大家都找不到人只有你找不到人 |
| 02:02:01,000 | 02:02:03,000 | 我現在問你 |
| 02:02:03,000 | 02:02:05,000 | 你們1.7一毛錢都沒有拿回來 |
| 02:02:05,000 | 02:02:07,000 | 這是我們大家的錢 |
| 02:02:07,000 | 02:02:09,000 | 2300萬的錢 |
| 02:02:09,000 | 02:02:11,000 | 有收回3900多萬 |
| 02:02:13,000 | 02:02:15,000 | 那你就告訴我他的還款計畫是什麼 |
| 02:02:15,000 | 02:02:17,000 | 總共收回3900多萬嗎 |
| 02:02:17,000 | 02:02:19,000 | 對到目前為止總共 |
| 02:02:19,000 | 02:02:21,000 | 收回3900多萬 |
| 02:02:21,000 | 02:02:23,000 | 無奶人的部分是收回750萬 |
| 02:02:23,000 | 02:02:25,000 | 無奶人才交回750萬 |
| 02:02:25,000 | 02:02:27,000 | 但是你總共要收回1.7億 |
| 02:02:27,000 | 02:02:29,000 | 對這個案子 |
| 02:02:29,000 | 02:02:31,000 | 那你秀出來給我們看你的還款計畫 |
| 02:02:31,000 | 02:02:33,000 | 是什麼 |
| 02:02:33,000 | 02:02:35,000 | 跟委員報告因為雙方協商還沒有 |
| 02:02:35,000 | 02:02:37,000 | 如果協商定案之後 |
| 02:02:37,000 | 02:02:39,000 | 我今天有看到許淑華 |
| 02:02:39,000 | 02:02:41,000 | 這個迷你書寫的那個 |
| 02:02:41,000 | 02:02:43,000 | 那個還款案喔 |
| 02:02:43,000 | 02:02:45,000 | 搞不好你們也是這樣做喔 |
| 02:02:45,000 | 02:02:47,000 | 一開始還一點點還一點點還一點點 |
| 02:02:47,000 | 02:02:49,000 | 後來還很大 |
| 02:02:49,000 | 02:02:51,000 | 不是剛A錢的時候最有錢嗎 |
| 02:02:51,000 | 02:02:53,000 | 錢還沒有處理好的時候你們不處理 |
| 02:02:53,000 | 02:02:55,000 | 然後只還一點點一點點 |
| 02:02:55,000 | 02:02:57,000 | 然後打算不還了嗎 |
| 02:02:57,000 | 02:02:59,000 | 不會這個樣子 |
| 02:02:59,000 | 02:03:01,000 | 台南公司處理這個案子一定是會 |
| 02:03:01,000 | 02:03:03,000 | 窮盡所有的方法 |
| 02:03:03,000 | 02:03:05,000 | 無奶人擺明了 |
| 02:03:05,000 | 02:03:07,000 | 玩弄司法啊 |
| 02:03:07,000 | 02:03:09,000 | 玩弄台糖啊全民當白痴啊 |
| 02:03:09,000 | 02:03:11,000 | 你知道網友怎麼說的 |
| 02:03:11,000 | 02:03:13,000 | 一般的人簽電話費現水電費 |
| 02:03:13,000 | 02:03:15,000 | 馬上就被停水停電 |
| 02:03:15,000 | 02:03:17,000 | 一直被吹 |
| 02:03:17,000 | 02:03:19,000 | 無奶人簽1.7億還可以到健身房 |
| 02:03:19,000 | 02:03:21,000 | 我這輩子都沒上過健身房 |
| 02:03:21,000 | 02:03:23,000 | 逍遙法外吃好的 |
| 02:03:23,000 | 02:03:25,000 | 吃好喝好 |
| 02:03:25,000 | 02:03:27,000 | 那你這債務協商做什麼用 |
| 02:03:27,000 | 02:03:29,000 | 債務協商當然是要 |
| 02:03:29,000 | 02:03:31,000 | 請他提出合理的清償計畫 |
| 02:03:31,000 | 02:03:33,000 | 如果說無奶人他提出來的計畫 |
| 02:03:33,000 | 02:03:35,000 | 台糖公司不接受 |
| 02:03:35,000 | 02:03:37,000 | 副總你知不知道 |
| 02:03:37,000 | 02:03:39,000 | 連孫道純這個生意人 |
| 02:03:39,000 | 02:03:41,000 | 他當時欠了1.2億 |
| 02:03:41,000 | 02:03:43,000 | 他要賣管收 |
| 02:03:43,000 | 02:03:45,000 | 他就錢都還光了 |
| 02:03:45,000 | 02:03:47,000 | 你應該記得這個案子 |
| 02:03:47,000 | 02:03:49,000 | 我們當然希望無奶人能夠把錢都還了 |
| 02:03:49,000 | 02:03:51,000 | 那就是因為無奶人 |
| 02:03:51,000 | 02:03:53,000 | 你有把柄的時候 |
| 02:03:53,000 | 02:03:55,000 | 你有籌碼的時候你去放他走 |
| 02:03:55,000 | 02:03:57,000 | 不是 |
| 02:03:57,000 | 02:03:59,000 | 不是這個意思 |
| 02:03:59,000 | 02:04:01,000 | 如果無奶人還是沒有提出合理的方案 |
| 02:04:01,000 | 02:04:03,000 | 我們還是會收錢管收 |
| 02:04:03,000 | 02:04:05,000 | 副總當初說你目的 |
| 02:04:05,000 | 02:04:07,000 | 你剛剛也講了一遍 |
| 02:04:07,000 | 02:04:09,000 | 要收回欠款所以撤回管收 |
| 02:04:09,000 | 02:04:11,000 | 這個邏輯你去問你兒子跟孫子 |
| 02:04:11,000 | 02:04:13,000 | 因為我們要他還錢 |
| 02:04:13,000 | 02:04:15,000 | 所以我們就撤回讓他回家 |
| 02:04:15,000 | 02:04:17,000 | 不是 |
| 02:04:17,000 | 02:04:19,000 | 他回家還要自己親自到銀行去領錢嗎 |
| 02:04:19,000 | 02:04:21,000 | 你這個邏輯非常奇怪 |
| 02:04:21,000 | 02:04:23,000 | 結果到現在 |
| 02:04:23,000 | 02:04:25,000 | 證實我們是對的 |
| 02:04:25,000 | 02:04:27,000 | 你一塊錢都拿不回來 |
| 02:04:27,000 | 02:04:29,000 | 你為什麼不等他先還錢 |
| 02:04:29,000 | 02:04:31,000 | 再放他回家呢 |
| 02:04:31,000 | 02:04:33,000 | 我到今天沒有辦法理解這件事 |
| 02:04:33,000 | 02:04:35,000 | 為什麼 |
| 02:04:35,000 | 02:04:37,000 | 你目的就是說要他還錢 |
| 02:04:37,000 | 02:04:39,000 | 但是他沒有還一塊錢 |
| 02:04:39,000 | 02:04:41,000 | 你就讓他回家 |
| 02:04:41,000 | 02:04:43,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 02:04:43,000 | 02:04:45,000 | 因為當時他的律師是希望遞� IAOA |
| 02:04:45,000 | 02:04:47,000 | 因為法院禁止 |
| 02:04:47,000 | 02:04:49,000 | 那律師是希望說能夠跟 |
| 02:04:49,000 | 02:04:51,000 | 無奶人來當面講清楚 |
| 02:04:51,000 | 02:04:53,000 | 之後才能提出比較合理的 |
| 02:04:53,000 | 02:04:55,000 | 還款計畫 |
| 02:04:55,000 | 02:04:57,000 | 好 副總 |
| 02:04:57,000 | 02:04:59,000 | 是誰叫你們當庭 |
| 02:04:59,000 | 02:05:01,000 | 撤回管修的 |
| 02:05:01,000 | 02:05:03,000 | 是誰 |
| 02:05:03,000 | 02:05:05,000 | 是當時我們 |
| 02:05:05,000 | 02:05:07,000 | 代理人他所做的 |
| 02:05:07,000 | 02:05:09,000 | 代理人是誰 |
| 02:05:09,000 | 02:05:11,000 | 代理人是我們公司的湯董事 |
| 02:05:11,000 | 02:05:13,000 | 湯董事 |
| 02:05:13,000 | 02:05:15,000 | 湯董事敢 |
| 02:05:15,000 | 02:05:17,000 | 要他當庭 |
| 02:05:17,000 | 02:05:19,000 | 撤回管修 |
| 02:05:19,000 | 02:05:21,000 | 你現在有名字了 |
| 02:05:21,000 | 02:05:23,000 | 叫你撤回管修的是湯董事 |
| 02:05:23,000 | 02:05:25,000 | 湯董事 |
| 02:05:25,000 | 02:05:27,000 | 你公開把他名字講出來 |
| 02:05:27,000 | 02:05:29,000 | 他是公司委託我們的董事 |
| 02:05:29,000 | 02:05:31,000 | 他具有三十多年的律師經驗 |
| 02:05:31,000 | 02:05:33,000 | 所以他是當庭 |
| 02:05:33,000 | 02:05:35,000 | 律師經驗 |
| 02:05:35,000 | 02:05:37,000 | 你委託他 |
| 02:05:37,000 | 02:05:39,000 | 代理訴訟嗎 |
| 02:05:39,000 | 02:05:41,000 | 有律師決定不用跟董事長 |
| 02:05:41,000 | 02:05:43,000 | 跟總經理討論嗎 |
| 02:05:45,000 | 02:05:47,000 | 這部分是當時公司有授權 |
| 02:05:47,000 | 02:05:49,000 | 授權 |
| 02:05:49,000 | 02:05:51,000 | 你公然跟全民為敵 |
| 02:05:51,000 | 02:05:53,000 | 下一步動作是什麼 |
| 02:05:53,000 | 02:05:55,000 | 你現在沒有來回錢 |
| 02:05:55,000 | 02:05:57,000 | 要不要再申請管修 |
| 02:05:57,000 | 02:05:59,000 | 你再管修總共可以幾次 |
| 02:05:59,000 | 02:06:01,000 | 你兩倍一次了 |
| 02:06:01,000 | 02:06:03,000 | 你總共可以幾次 |
| 02:06:05,000 | 02:06:07,000 | 兩次 |
| 02:06:07,000 | 02:06:09,000 | 你現在要不要再把他管修 |
| 02:06:09,000 | 02:06:11,000 | 錢沒有回來 |
| 02:06:11,000 | 02:06:13,000 | 如果他沒有提出合理的清掌計畫 |
| 02:06:13,000 | 02:06:15,000 | 我們還是會申請管修 |
| 02:06:15,000 | 02:06:17,000 | 他就沒有 |
| 02:06:17,000 | 02:06:19,000 | 不然你今天就給我們看 |
| 02:06:19,000 | 02:06:21,000 | 因為7月16號 |
| 02:06:21,000 | 02:06:23,000 | 他提出來我們不滿意 |
| 02:06:23,000 | 02:06:25,000 | 所以台湯公司有再特別請他 |
| 02:06:25,000 | 02:06:27,000 | 要提出合理的清掌計畫 |
| 02:06:27,000 | 02:06:29,000 | 我給你用常識想一想 |
| 02:06:29,000 | 02:06:31,000 | 放了二十年 |
| 02:06:31,000 | 02:06:33,000 | 現在要管修撤回來 |
| 02:06:33,000 | 02:06:35,000 | 吃的好穿的好 |
| 02:06:35,000 | 02:06:37,000 | 在外面過的優惠的生活 |
| 02:06:37,000 | 02:06:39,000 | 請同學談5月15號你取得報告 |
| 02:06:39,000 | 02:06:41,000 | 得知Bandle Pirate燒標 |
| 02:06:41,000 | 02:06:43,000 | 你有沒有報告經濟部 |
| 02:06:43,000 | 02:06:45,000 | 廣布黨你有收到這個訊息嗎 |
| 02:06:45,000 | 02:06:47,000 | 他有報告經濟部嗎 |
| 02:06:49,000 | 02:06:51,000 | 他不需要 |
| 02:06:51,000 | 02:06:53,000 | 廣布黨我給你討論一個邏輯 |
| 02:06:53,000 | 02:06:55,000 | 需不需要是一件事 |
| 02:06:55,000 | 02:06:57,000 | 我現在不問需不需要 |
| 02:06:57,000 | 02:06:59,000 | 我也不需要你們講的這個 |
| 02:06:59,000 | 02:07:01,000 | 隨便去解釋的依法通報 |
| 02:07:01,000 | 02:07:03,000 | 請問他有沒有通知告報告 |
| 02:07:03,000 | 02:07:05,000 | 你沒有收到 |
| 02:07:05,000 | 02:07:07,000 | 你沒有收到 |
| 02:07:07,000 | 02:07:09,000 | 所以台湯沒有通告 |
| 02:07:09,000 | 02:07:11,000 | 通報上級長官 |
| 02:07:11,000 | 02:07:13,000 | 他不需要 |
| 02:07:13,000 | 02:07:15,000 | 廣布黨我講的是兩件事 |
| 02:07:15,000 | 02:07:17,000 | 需不需要是一件事 |
| 02:07:17,000 | 02:07:19,000 | 在專業良知上責任上 |
| 02:07:19,000 | 02:07:21,000 | 是另外一件事情 |
| 02:07:21,000 | 02:07:23,000 | 請問台湯5月15號發言過 |
| 02:07:23,000 | 02:07:25,000 | 有沒有通報地方衛生主管機關食藥署 |
| 02:07:25,000 | 02:07:27,000 | 各位我們報告沒有 |
| 02:07:27,000 | 02:07:29,000 | 你每一項都沒有就對了 |
| 02:07:29,000 | 02:07:31,000 | 因為他這個不是通報現在的 |
| 02:07:31,000 | 02:07:33,000 | 食安法規定所要通報的項目 |
| 02:07:33,000 | 02:07:35,000 | 他不是 |
| 02:07:35,000 | 02:07:37,000 | 這個食安法很多專家都有見解 |
| 02:07:37,000 | 02:07:39,000 | 有法學背景都有見解 |
| 02:07:39,000 | 02:07:41,000 | 你說安全都沒有通報 |
| 02:07:41,000 | 02:07:43,000 | 那就是白人生不完 |
| 02:07:43,000 | 02:07:45,000 | 你看到不合格的白人生不完 |
| 02:07:45,000 | 02:07:47,000 | 大家不夠什麼安全 |
| 02:07:47,000 | 02:07:49,000 | 台湯是國營事業 |
| 02:07:49,000 | 02:07:51,000 | 我們採購的不是最後的食用油 |
| 02:07:51,000 | 02:07:53,000 | 我們採購的是出油是一個中間的產品 |
| 02:07:53,000 | 02:07:55,000 | 今天你已經到這個程度了 |
| 02:07:55,000 | 02:07:57,000 | 全部的人都在講 |
| 02:07:57,000 | 02:07:59,000 | 我有沒有合法 |
| 02:07:59,000 | 02:08:01,000 | 我也對外部部長說你只要淪落到 |
| 02:08:01,000 | 02:08:03,000 | 我有沒有違反哪一條法規 |
| 02:08:03,000 | 02:08:05,000 | 我們不只是要他合法 |
| 02:08:05,000 | 02:08:07,000 | 我們包括 |
| 02:08:07,000 | 02:08:09,000 | 我們現在所有的 |
| 02:08:09,000 | 02:08:11,000 | 大豆沙拉油 |
| 02:08:11,000 | 02:08:13,000 | 跟他的相關的產品 |
| 02:08:13,000 | 02:08:15,000 | 我們還是讓他下架 |
| 02:08:15,000 | 02:08:17,000 | 你現在已經出事了 |
| 02:08:17,000 | 02:08:19,000 | 你現在就說 |
| 02:08:19,000 | 02:08:21,000 | 你當時看到了這麼危險 |
| 02:08:21,000 | 02:08:23,000 | 而且是最高7點多倍的鈔票 |
| 02:08:23,000 | 02:08:25,000 | 你什麼都沒做 |
| 02:08:25,000 | 02:08:27,000 | 也沒有報告經濟部也沒有報告食藥署 |
| 02:08:27,000 | 02:08:29,000 | 也沒有報告地方衛生主管機關 |
| 02:08:29,000 | 02:08:31,000 | 對嗎我這樣講有問題嗎 |
| 02:08:31,000 | 02:08:33,000 | 可能社會大眾有誤解 |
| 02:08:33,000 | 02:08:35,000 | 沒有所謂的7點多倍 |
| 02:08:35,000 | 02:08:37,000 | 那我現在 |
| 02:08:37,000 | 02:08:39,000 | 因為部長也這樣說你們沒有通報意外 |
| 02:08:39,000 | 02:08:41,000 | 你就大聲說 |
| 02:08:41,000 | 02:08:43,000 | 我沒有台糖沒有通報義務 |
| 02:08:43,000 | 02:08:45,000 | 你就這樣講 |
| 02:08:45,000 | 02:08:47,000 | 依照現在的食安法 |
| 02:08:47,000 | 02:08:49,000 | 台糖沒有通報義務 |
| 02:08:49,000 | 02:08:51,000 | 台糖只負責賺錢 |
| 02:08:51,000 | 02:08:53,000 | 台糖只負責用我們的納稅錢 |
| 02:08:53,000 | 02:08:55,000 | 所以人家欠了也不要回來 |
| 02:08:55,000 | 02:08:57,000 | 然後看到 |
| 02:08:57,000 | 02:08:59,000 | 看到人家做壞事 |
| 02:08:59,000 | 02:09:01,000 | 也都靜靜的不出征 |
| 02:09:01,000 | 02:09:03,000 | 把人家給撕不掉 |
| 02:09:03,000 | 02:09:05,000 | 不會啦我們不會這樣做 |
| 02:09:05,000 | 02:09:07,000 | 謝謝主席 |
| 02:09:07,000 | 02:09:09,000 | 好謝謝陳昭志委員 |
| 02:09:09,000 | 02:09:11,000 | 昭志委員謝謝部長 |
| 02:09:11,000 | 02:09:15,000 | 好好的接下來我們請王宏威委員質詢 |
| 02:09:23,000 | 02:09:25,000 | 謝謝主席喔 |
| 02:09:25,000 | 02:09:27,000 | 我請狗明星部長 |
| 02:09:27,000 | 02:09:29,000 | 還有台糖 |
| 02:09:29,000 | 02:09:31,000 | 今天是副總主席 |
| 02:09:33,000 | 02:09:35,000 | 請這個副總跟部長謝謝 |
| 02:09:35,000 | 02:09:37,000 | 王委員好 |
| 02:09:37,000 | 02:09:39,000 | 副總好 |
| 02:09:39,000 | 02:09:41,000 | 剛才陳昭志委員一直在追問 |
| 02:09:41,000 | 02:09:43,000 | 7月16日 |
| 02:09:43,000 | 02:09:45,000 | 台糖和無奶人做協商 |
| 02:09:45,000 | 02:09:47,000 | 最後破局 |
| 02:09:47,000 | 02:09:49,000 | 剛才副總也講說 |
| 02:09:49,000 | 02:09:51,000 | 因為無奶人所提出來的 |
| 02:09:51,000 | 02:09:53,000 | 還款條件 |
| 02:09:53,000 | 02:09:55,000 | 台糖無法接受 |
| 02:09:55,000 | 02:09:57,000 | 但是呢副總一直 |
| 02:09:57,000 | 02:09:59,000 | 不敢啟口 |
| 02:09:59,000 | 02:10:01,000 | 到底無奶人提出來的是 |
| 02:10:01,000 | 02:10:03,000 | 什麼樣的還款條件 |
| 02:10:03,000 | 02:10:05,000 | 因為 |
| 02:10:05,000 | 02:10:07,000 | 因為對你們來講 |
| 02:10:07,000 | 02:10:09,000 | 真的應該是難以啟口 |
| 02:10:09,000 | 02:10:11,000 | 那我想 |
| 02:10:11,000 | 02:10:13,000 | 問副總 |
| 02:10:13,000 | 02:10:15,000 | 這件事情既然已經鬧得沸沸揚揚 |
| 02:10:15,000 | 02:10:17,000 | 7月16日 |
| 02:10:17,000 | 02:10:19,000 | 我所得到的訊息 |
| 02:10:19,000 | 02:10:21,000 | 無奶人方面 |
| 02:10:21,000 | 02:10:23,000 | 所提出來的 |
| 02:10:23,000 | 02:10:25,000 | 還款條件是 |
| 02:10:29,000 | 02:10:31,000 | 每一個月 |
| 02:10:31,000 | 02:10:33,000 | 他還5萬塊 |
| 02:10:33,000 | 02:10:35,000 | 分期長付 |
| 02:10:35,000 | 02:10:37,000 | 請問 |
| 02:10:37,000 | 02:10:39,000 | 是不是如此 |
| 02:10:41,000 | 02:10:43,000 | 報告委員 |
| 02:10:43,000 | 02:10:45,000 | 據我了解 |
| 02:10:45,000 | 02:10:47,000 | 跟這個好像不大相符 |
| 02:10:47,000 | 02:10:49,000 | 不大5萬塊 |
| 02:10:49,000 | 02:10:51,000 | 因為這個雙方協商還沒有結束 |
| 02:10:51,000 | 02:10:53,000 | 所以在這個協商內容說實在 |
| 02:10:53,000 | 02:10:55,000 | 這時候比較不方便對外來說 |
| 02:10:55,000 | 02:10:57,000 | 是在5萬塊以上 |
| 02:10:57,000 | 02:10:59,000 | 還是5萬塊以下呢 |
| 02:10:59,000 | 02:11:01,000 | 這個還是 |
| 02:11:01,000 | 02:11:03,000 | 你都到現在都不知道吧 |
| 02:11:03,000 | 02:11:05,000 | 因為我知道你們台上協商 |
| 02:11:05,000 | 02:11:07,000 | 之後 |
| 02:11:07,000 | 02:11:09,000 | 律師嚇壞了 |
| 02:11:09,000 | 02:11:11,000 | 完全沒有辦法談下去 |
| 02:11:13,000 | 02:11:15,000 | 你們一直不對外說明 |
| 02:11:15,000 | 02:11:17,000 | 到底 |
| 02:11:17,000 | 02:11:19,000 | 我奶人被你們 |
| 02:11:19,000 | 02:11:21,000 | 送走之後 |
| 02:11:21,000 | 02:11:23,000 | 然後他所提出來的還款條件 |
| 02:11:23,000 | 02:11:25,000 | 是什麼 |
| 02:11:25,000 | 02:11:27,000 | 我在這邊聽到台壇 |
| 02:11:27,000 | 02:11:29,000 | 內部 |
| 02:11:29,000 | 02:11:31,000 | 議論紛紛 |
| 02:11:31,000 | 02:11:33,000 | 因為無奶人提出來條件實在是太爛了 |
| 02:11:33,000 | 02:11:35,000 | 完全沒有任何的誠意 |
| 02:11:37,000 | 02:11:39,000 | 按照我所聽到的 |
| 02:11:39,000 | 02:11:41,000 | 每個月還5萬塊 |
| 02:11:41,000 | 02:11:43,000 | 你們現在無奶人是欠你們 |
| 02:11:43,000 | 02:11:45,000 | 1億7千萬 |
| 02:11:45,000 | 02:11:47,000 | 如果加急利息的話 |
| 02:11:47,000 | 02:11:49,000 | 按照這個還款計劃 |
| 02:11:49,000 | 02:11:51,000 | 是不是要還300年之久 |
| 02:11:51,000 | 02:11:53,000 | 無奶人現在已經79歲了 |
| 02:11:53,000 | 02:11:55,000 | 他要還到379歲嗎 |
| 02:11:57,000 | 02:11:59,000 | 這個當然台上沒有辦法 |
| 02:11:59,000 | 02:12:01,000 | 接受所以破局 |
| 02:12:01,000 | 02:12:03,000 | 所以我現在要講的是 |
| 02:12:03,000 | 02:12:05,000 | 無奶人在你們 |
| 02:12:05,000 | 02:12:07,000 | 管收撤銷之後 |
| 02:12:07,000 | 02:12:09,000 | 他所謂的還款計劃 |
| 02:12:09,000 | 02:12:11,000 | 是這麼離譜的 |
| 02:12:11,000 | 02:12:13,000 | 一個還款計劃 |
| 02:12:13,000 | 02:12:15,000 | 請問一下台上要不要 |
| 02:12:15,000 | 02:12:17,000 | 重新申請 |
| 02:12:17,000 | 02:12:19,000 | 給無奶人管收 |
| 02:12:19,000 | 02:12:21,000 | 要不要 |
| 02:12:21,000 | 02:12:23,000 | 接下來的協商還是沒有 |
| 02:12:23,000 | 02:12:25,000 | 你們還要給他協商機會 |
| 02:12:25,000 | 02:12:27,000 | 什麼時候協商 |
| 02:12:27,000 | 02:12:29,000 | 大概接下來 |
| 02:12:29,000 | 02:12:31,000 | 8月的下旬應該會 |
| 02:12:31,000 | 02:12:33,000 | 雙方會再協商 |
| 02:12:33,000 | 02:12:35,000 | 8月下旬什麼時候 |
| 02:12:35,000 | 02:12:37,000 | 雙方的代理人還在搶 |
| 02:12:37,000 | 02:12:39,000 | 你們再繼續讓他拖延 |
| 02:12:39,000 | 02:12:41,000 | 當然不是這個樣子 |
| 02:12:41,000 | 02:12:43,000 | 如果說協商沒有合理的還款計劃 |
| 02:12:43,000 | 02:12:45,000 | 當然台南公司一定會再申請管收 |
| 02:12:45,000 | 02:12:47,000 | 好等一下 |
| 02:12:47,000 | 02:12:49,000 | 所以你們現在 |
| 02:12:49,000 | 02:12:53,000 | 8月下旬再給無奶人一次機會是嗎 |
| 02:12:53,000 | 02:12:55,000 | 目前是 |
| 02:12:55,000 | 02:12:57,000 | 雙方的代理人 |
| 02:12:57,000 | 02:12:59,000 | 是僑定大概是8月 |
| 02:12:59,000 | 02:13:01,000 | 你不要一直跟我講代理人 |
| 02:13:01,000 | 02:13:03,000 | 欠代理人的錢嗎 |
| 02:13:03,000 | 02:13:05,000 | 欠你台銅的錢 |
| 02:13:05,000 | 02:13:07,000 | 是欠台銅的錢可是雙方的協商代理人 |
| 02:13:07,000 | 02:13:09,000 | 因為雙方的時間還在僑 |
| 02:13:09,000 | 02:13:11,000 | 好8月下旬 |
| 02:13:11,000 | 02:13:13,000 | 如果8月下旬 |
| 02:13:13,000 | 02:13:15,000 | 無奶人沒有辦法提出 |
| 02:13:15,000 | 02:13:17,000 | 台銅可以接受的還款計劃 |
| 02:13:17,000 | 02:13:21,000 | 台銅就會再度向法院申請管收是嗎 |
| 02:13:21,000 | 02:13:23,000 | 是是是 |
| 02:13:23,000 | 02:13:25,000 | 確不確定確定 |
| 02:13:25,000 | 02:13:27,000 | 好來部長 |
| 02:13:27,000 | 02:13:29,000 | 我請問一下 |
| 02:13:29,000 | 02:13:31,000 | 當時台銅 |
| 02:13:31,000 | 02:13:33,000 | 跟法院申請 |
| 02:13:33,000 | 02:13:35,000 | 撤銷管收請問 |
| 02:13:35,000 | 02:13:37,000 | 是你受益的嗎 |
| 02:13:37,000 | 02:13:39,000 | 不是啊經濟部沒有在管這個 |
| 02:13:39,000 | 02:13:41,000 | 所以不是你指示的 |
| 02:13:41,000 | 02:13:43,000 | 所以是台銅的決定是嗎 |
| 02:13:43,000 | 02:13:45,000 | 台銅內部 |
| 02:13:45,000 | 02:13:47,000 | 台銅內部怎麼決定我們不知道 |
| 02:13:47,000 | 02:13:49,000 | 你同樣不知道 |
| 02:13:49,000 | 02:13:51,000 | 也沒有事先向你報告 |
| 02:13:51,000 | 02:13:53,000 | 都不要報告 |
| 02:13:53,000 | 02:13:55,000 | 你覺得都不用報告就像不用通報一樣 |
| 02:13:55,000 | 02:13:57,000 | 無所謂 |
| 02:13:57,000 | 02:13:59,000 | 因為這個權責是他們的權責 |
| 02:13:59,000 | 02:14:01,000 | 那台銅現在搞到1億7千萬 |
| 02:14:01,000 | 02:14:03,000 | 已經七八年收不回來 |
| 02:14:03,000 | 02:14:05,000 | 然後搞到現在全社會 |
| 02:14:05,000 | 02:14:07,000 | 沸沸揚揚完全違反 |
| 02:14:07,000 | 02:14:09,000 | 社會觀感 |
| 02:14:09,000 | 02:14:11,000 | 那部長也覺得台銅做的好好 |
| 02:14:11,000 | 02:14:13,000 | 很棒 |
| 02:14:13,000 | 02:14:15,000 | 我們的想法還是一樣 |
| 02:14:15,000 | 02:14:17,000 | 能夠盡量能夠把債權拿回來 |
| 02:14:17,000 | 02:14:19,000 | 這個是 |
| 02:14:19,000 | 02:14:21,000 | 盡量 |
| 02:14:21,000 | 02:14:23,000 | 不一定能把債權拿回來的意思 |
| 02:14:23,000 | 02:14:25,000 | 好那部長我直接問你 |
| 02:14:25,000 | 02:14:27,000 | 因為你是台銅的頂頭上司 |
| 02:14:27,000 | 02:14:29,000 | 如果 |
| 02:14:29,000 | 02:14:31,000 | 按照現在無奶圓一個月 |
| 02:14:31,000 | 02:14:33,000 | 只還五萬塊 |
| 02:14:33,000 | 02:14:35,000 | 我是台銅我立刻就去申請管收了 |
| 02:14:37,000 | 02:14:39,000 | 這是侮辱台銅嗎 |
| 02:14:39,000 | 02:14:41,000 | 是羞辱台銅嗎 |
| 02:14:41,000 | 02:14:43,000 | 你們就是獨職不是嗎 |
| 02:14:43,000 | 02:14:45,000 | 報告委員 |
| 02:14:45,000 | 02:14:47,000 | 若堅是欠你的錢 |
| 02:14:47,000 | 02:14:49,000 | 你還不去申請管收喔 |
| 02:14:49,000 | 02:14:51,000 | 協商跟談判他有他的過程 |
| 02:14:51,000 | 02:14:53,000 | 跟技巧 |
| 02:14:53,000 | 02:14:55,000 | 這個部份我們要尊重台銅公司 |
| 02:14:55,000 | 02:14:57,000 | 你繼續尊重嗎是不是 |
| 02:14:57,000 | 02:14:59,000 | 所以你不在乎 |
| 02:14:59,000 | 02:15:01,000 | 不是不在乎啊 |
| 02:15:01,000 | 02:15:03,000 | 這是尊重他們的談判的過程 |
| 02:15:03,000 | 02:15:05,000 | 做個不好你還繼續尊重喔 |
| 02:15:05,000 | 02:15:07,000 | 我們講到應該下台啦 |
| 02:15:07,000 | 02:15:09,000 | 又是董事長又是總經理 |
| 02:15:09,000 | 02:15:11,000 | 今天這麼重要的專案報告說他出國了 |
| 02:15:11,000 | 02:15:13,000 | 他只有一個人不在 |
| 02:15:13,000 | 02:15:15,000 | 董事長也不在 |
| 02:15:15,000 | 02:15:17,000 | 總經理也不在 |
| 02:15:17,000 | 02:15:19,000 | 台銅的公司是沒人了 |
| 02:15:19,000 | 02:15:21,000 | 你們經濟部沒有人了嗎 |
| 02:15:21,000 | 02:15:23,000 | 要由他一個人兼任董事長 |
| 02:15:23,000 | 02:15:25,000 | 跟總經理 |
| 02:15:25,000 | 02:15:27,000 | 報告委員這個 |
| 02:15:27,000 | 02:15:29,000 | 請問一下 |
| 02:15:29,000 | 02:15:31,000 | 撤銷管收的決定 |
| 02:15:31,000 | 02:15:33,000 | 是董事會決定 |
| 02:15:33,000 | 02:15:35,000 | 還是董事長決定 |
| 02:15:35,000 | 02:15:37,000 | 還是總經理決定 |
| 02:15:37,000 | 02:15:39,000 | 這個可能要我幫他回答 |
| 02:15:39,000 | 02:15:41,000 | 是跟委員報告 |
| 02:15:41,000 | 02:15:43,000 | 因為當時 |
| 02:15:43,000 | 02:15:45,000 | 公司是受遣這個 |
| 02:15:45,000 | 02:15:47,000 | 我們的代理人去開庭的 |
| 02:15:47,000 | 02:15:49,000 | 那在庭上應法官 |
| 02:15:49,000 | 02:15:51,000 | 的這個 |
| 02:15:51,000 | 02:15:53,000 | 庭信之後做出這個決定的 |
| 02:15:53,000 | 02:15:55,000 | 所以你們都推給代理人喔 |
| 02:15:55,000 | 02:15:57,000 | 所以台銅很好笑 |
| 02:15:57,000 | 02:15:59,000 | 我們納稅人 |
| 02:15:59,000 | 02:16:01,000 | 好今天託付給 |
| 02:16:01,000 | 02:16:03,000 | 我們經濟部託付給 |
| 02:16:03,000 | 02:16:05,000 | 台銅現在全部都是託給代理人 |
| 02:16:05,000 | 02:16:07,000 | 代理人可以這麼大 |
| 02:16:07,000 | 02:16:09,000 | 一億七千萬由代理人來決定 |
| 02:16:09,000 | 02:16:11,000 | 是嗎 |
| 02:16:11,000 | 02:16:13,000 | 報告委員代理人 |
| 02:16:13,000 | 02:16:15,000 | 到時候這個一個月只還五萬塊 |
| 02:16:15,000 | 02:16:17,000 | 代理人說OK |
| 02:16:17,000 | 02:16:19,000 | 你們就接受了開台銅就吞下去嗎 |
| 02:16:19,000 | 02:16:21,000 | 是當時考量到 |
| 02:16:21,000 | 02:16:23,000 | 當時開庭的狀況所做的決定 |
| 02:16:23,000 | 02:16:25,000 | 好那請問一下副總 |
| 02:16:25,000 | 02:16:27,000 | 你們現在台銅至少要設定 |
| 02:16:27,000 | 02:16:29,000 | 無奶人應該幾年之內 |
| 02:16:29,000 | 02:16:31,000 | 要還完這些欠款 |
| 02:16:31,000 | 02:16:33,000 | 跟委員報告這個欠款 |
| 02:16:33,000 | 02:16:35,000 | 其實不是無奶人一個人 |
| 02:16:35,000 | 02:16:37,000 | 是四個債務人 |
| 02:16:37,000 | 02:16:39,000 | 那台銅公司 |
| 02:16:39,000 | 02:16:41,000 | 無奶人一個人欠多少 |
| 02:16:41,000 | 02:16:43,000 | 這是四個人連帶 |
| 02:16:43,000 | 02:16:45,000 | 要負責的這個案子 |
| 02:16:45,000 | 02:16:47,000 | 對阿無奶人要負責的嘛 |
| 02:16:47,000 | 02:16:49,000 | 四個債務人 |
| 02:16:49,000 | 02:16:51,000 | 那無奶人欠多少 |
| 02:16:51,000 | 02:16:53,000 | 你剛才都說無奶人還了750萬 |
| 02:16:53,000 | 02:16:55,000 | 無奶人還欠多少 |
| 02:16:55,000 | 02:16:57,000 | 這個債務如果說有一個 |
| 02:16:57,000 | 02:16:59,000 | 你到現在都想不清楚喔 |
| 02:16:59,000 | 02:17:01,000 | 要包庇無奶人喔 |
| 02:17:01,000 | 02:17:03,000 | 我現在直接說 |
| 02:17:03,000 | 02:17:05,000 | 照理說你們現在 |
| 02:17:05,000 | 02:17:07,000 | 就應該撤銷管收 |
| 02:17:07,000 | 02:17:09,000 | 我告訴你你立刻 |
| 02:17:09,000 | 02:17:11,000 | 把他關進去 |
| 02:17:11,000 | 02:17:13,000 | 他立刻提出一個比較好的還款計畫啦 |
| 02:17:13,000 | 02:17:15,000 | 你們現在 |
| 02:17:15,000 | 02:17:17,000 | 要再給他拖一個月 |
| 02:17:17,000 | 02:17:19,000 | 拖到這個月的下半月 |
| 02:17:19,000 | 02:17:21,000 | 下旬 |
| 02:17:21,000 | 02:17:23,000 | 如果 |
| 02:17:23,000 | 02:17:25,000 | 你們再沒有 |
| 02:17:25,000 | 02:17:27,000 | 去申請管收的話 |
| 02:17:27,000 | 02:17:29,000 | 你們就完全的瀆職 |
| 02:17:29,000 | 02:17:31,000 | 如果台銅瀆職 |
| 02:17:31,000 | 02:17:33,000 | 部長你也瀆職喔 |
| 02:17:33,000 | 02:17:35,000 | 因為你是主辦機關阿 |
| 02:17:35,000 | 02:17:37,000 | 是不是 |
| 02:17:37,000 | 02:17:39,000 | 我們的目標還是希望 |
| 02:17:39,000 | 02:17:41,000 | 債權可以 |
| 02:17:41,000 | 02:17:43,000 | 收回來啦 |
| 02:17:43,000 | 02:17:45,000 | 那這個 |
| 02:17:45,000 | 02:17:49,000 | 談判跟協商的這個技巧 |
| 02:17:49,000 | 02:17:51,000 | 或是怎麼樣的決定 |
| 02:17:51,000 | 02:17:53,000 | 這個還是要當手 |
| 02:17:53,000 | 02:17:55,000 | 這叫談判技巧喔 |
| 02:17:55,000 | 02:17:57,000 | 這叫談判技巧喔 |
| 02:17:57,000 | 02:17:59,000 | 以後所有積欠政府 |
| 02:17:59,000 | 02:18:01,000 | 稅款的 |
| 02:18:01,000 | 02:18:03,000 | 或者稅單的 |
| 02:18:03,000 | 02:18:05,000 | 或者違規的規費的 |
| 02:18:05,000 | 02:18:07,000 | 都來跟政府來說來還 |
| 02:18:07,000 | 02:18:09,000 | 我們來談一下這個技巧 |
| 02:18:09,000 | 02:18:11,000 | 無奶人技巧特別棒 |
| 02:18:11,000 | 02:18:13,000 | 所以我的意思 |
| 02:18:13,000 | 02:18:15,000 | 無奶人的談判技巧特別棒 |
| 02:18:15,000 | 02:18:17,000 | 他可以去開課了 |
| 02:18:17,000 | 02:18:19,000 | 開一堂怎麼樣 |
| 02:18:19,000 | 02:18:21,000 | 可以延長 |
| 02:18:21,000 | 02:18:23,000 | 可以欠錢不還 |
| 02:18:23,000 | 02:18:25,000 | 對政府欠錢不還的課了 |
| 02:18:25,000 | 02:18:27,000 | 部長你也說的出來喔 |
| 02:18:27,000 | 02:18:29,000 | 分層負責 |
| 02:18:29,000 | 02:18:31,000 | 這個還是要尊重台糖 |
| 02:18:31,000 | 02:18:33,000 | 部長這件事情 |
| 02:18:33,000 | 02:18:35,000 | 台糖辦不好 |
| 02:18:35,000 | 02:18:37,000 | 部長有責任 |
| 02:18:37,000 | 02:18:39,000 | 因為你們可以決定 |
| 02:18:39,000 | 02:18:41,000 | 這個董事長總經理阿 |
| 02:18:41,000 | 02:18:43,000 | 辦的這樣無煞煞 |
| 02:18:43,000 | 02:18:45,000 | 辦到這種 |
| 02:18:45,000 | 02:18:47,000 | 剛剛台糖公司已經委員報告過了 |
| 02:18:47,000 | 02:18:49,000 | 那要看8月底的狀況 |
| 02:18:49,000 | 02:18:51,000 | 好8月底如果沒有辦法提出 |
| 02:18:51,000 | 02:18:53,000 | 不能成下結論嘛 |
| 02:18:53,000 | 02:18:55,000 | 這什麼結論啊 |
| 02:18:55,000 | 02:18:57,000 | 一個月還5萬啊 |
| 02:18:57,000 | 02:18:59,000 | 我跟你講我講一個月還5萬 |
| 02:18:59,000 | 02:19:01,000 | 還是高的啦 |
| 02:19:01,000 | 02:19:03,000 | 我聽到可能還不到5萬 |
| 02:19:05,000 | 02:19:07,000 | 所以8月份 |
| 02:19:07,000 | 02:19:09,000 | 8月份如果 |
| 02:19:09,000 | 02:19:11,000 | 沒有辦法提出 |
| 02:19:11,000 | 02:19:13,000 | 一個合理償還計劃 |
| 02:19:13,000 | 02:19:15,000 | 而且你們一定要公開啦 |
| 02:19:15,000 | 02:19:17,000 | 你們一定要公開 |
| 02:19:17,000 | 02:19:19,000 | 你們憑什麼不公開 |
| 02:19:19,000 | 02:19:21,000 | 這是國營事業不是你家的錢喔 |
| 02:19:21,000 | 02:19:23,000 | 所以一定要公開 |
| 02:19:23,000 | 02:19:25,000 | 無奶人到底他的還款計劃是什麼 |
| 02:19:25,000 | 02:19:27,000 | 不要再繼續的包庇無奶人 |
| 02:19:27,000 | 02:19:29,000 | 包庇無奶人 |
| 02:19:29,000 | 02:19:31,000 | 你們通通都瀆職 |
| 02:19:33,000 | 02:19:35,000 | 好謝謝王王委員 |
| 02:19:35,000 | 02:19:37,000 | 謝謝台糖 |
| 02:19:37,000 | 02:19:39,000 | 蔡益妤 |
| 02:19:39,000 | 02:19:41,000 | 接下來請蔡益妤委員質詢 |
| 02:19:47,000 | 02:19:49,000 | 我們待會兒政天才 |
| 02:19:49,000 | 02:19:51,000 | 待會兒呂玉琳委員質詢完畢後 |
| 02:19:51,000 | 02:19:53,000 | 休息8分鐘 |
| 02:19:57,000 | 02:19:59,000 | 好我們是不是有請 |
| 02:19:59,000 | 02:20:01,000 | 台港副總經理 |
| 02:20:05,000 | 02:20:07,000 | 衛福部署長 |
| 02:20:07,000 | 02:20:09,000 | 蔡總署長 |
| 02:20:09,000 | 02:20:11,000 | 蔡總署長 |
| 02:20:19,000 | 02:20:21,000 | 好那今天 |
| 02:20:21,000 | 02:20:23,000 | 排了這樣的一個議程 |
| 02:20:23,000 | 02:20:25,000 | 早晚應該是很重視 |
| 02:20:25,000 | 02:20:27,000 | 台糖這一次 |
| 02:20:27,000 | 02:20:29,000 | 他拒收了這個 |
| 02:20:29,000 | 02:20:31,000 | 中原的出遊 |
| 02:20:31,000 | 02:20:33,000 | 因為他台糖認為這個是 |
| 02:20:33,000 | 02:20:35,000 | 這個是 |
| 02:20:35,000 | 02:20:37,000 | 出遊的階段 |
| 02:20:37,000 | 02:20:39,000 | 所以還不是所謂的一個產品 |
| 02:20:41,000 | 02:20:43,000 | 既然還不是產品 |
| 02:20:43,000 | 02:20:45,000 | 他就把這個出遊退貨 |
| 02:20:45,000 | 02:20:47,000 | 要中聯自己 |
| 02:20:47,000 | 02:20:49,000 | 要去吸收 |
| 02:20:49,000 | 02:20:51,000 | 因為台糖不收這樣的貨 |
| 02:20:51,000 | 02:20:53,000 | 而且這個貨源也 |
| 02:20:53,000 | 02:20:55,000 | 都還在中聯 |
| 02:20:55,000 | 02:20:57,000 | 這個自由就是都還在台中 |
| 02:20:57,000 | 02:20:59,000 | 那台糖直接拒收 |
| 02:20:59,000 | 02:21:01,000 | 那我想要請台糖是不是可以 |
| 02:21:01,000 | 02:21:03,000 | 再具體說明 |
| 02:21:03,000 | 02:21:05,000 | 當時你們 |
| 02:21:05,000 | 02:21:07,000 | 如何查到這一批 |
| 02:21:07,000 | 02:21:09,000 | 出遊是有問題 |
| 02:21:09,000 | 02:21:11,000 | 那你們怎樣決定去 |
| 02:21:11,000 | 02:21:13,000 | 拒收的過程可不可以做一個 |
| 02:21:13,000 | 02:21:15,000 | 完整的說明 |
| 02:21:15,000 | 02:21:17,000 | 是那跟委員做一個比較完整的 |
| 02:21:17,000 | 02:21:19,000 | 報告我們這一次 |
| 02:21:19,000 | 02:21:21,000 | 因為我們大豆 |
| 02:21:21,000 | 02:21:23,000 | 自己生產的 |
| 02:21:23,000 | 02:21:25,000 | 出遊我們自己壓到大豆生產的 |
| 02:21:25,000 | 02:21:27,000 | 出遊不足所以我們必須 |
| 02:21:27,000 | 02:21:29,000 | 要對外來採購出遊 |
| 02:21:29,000 | 02:21:31,000 | 不足那這一次 |
| 02:21:31,000 | 02:21:33,000 | 我們的招標案是3000 |
| 02:21:33,000 | 02:21:35,000 | 的出遊 |
| 02:21:35,000 | 02:21:37,000 | 那這個出遊 |
| 02:21:37,000 | 02:21:39,000 | 對台糖公司來講他是一個中間 |
| 02:21:39,000 | 02:21:41,000 | 的一個原料 |
| 02:21:41,000 | 02:21:43,000 | 那中聯他是分 |
| 02:21:43,000 | 02:21:45,000 | 應該是我們的 |
| 02:21:45,000 | 02:21:47,000 | 絕標的對象得標的 |
| 02:21:47,000 | 02:21:49,000 | 廠商是福茂 |
| 02:21:49,000 | 02:21:51,000 | 那福茂公司他 |
| 02:21:51,000 | 02:21:53,000 | 這次交遊交的這個 |
| 02:21:53,000 | 02:21:55,000 | 出遊他是分3批 |
| 02:21:55,000 | 02:21:57,000 | 第一批他交的 |
| 02:21:57,000 | 02:21:59,000 | 這個出遊就是我們這一次 |
| 02:21:59,000 | 02:22:01,000 | 311在中聯 |
| 02:22:01,000 | 02:22:03,000 | 的出遊那我們 |
| 02:22:03,000 | 02:22:05,000 | 5月11號他 |
| 02:22:05,000 | 02:22:07,000 | 提報這個 |
| 02:22:07,000 | 02:22:09,000 | 311這個這一 |
| 02:22:09,000 | 02:22:11,000 | 草的出遊是要交給 |
| 02:22:11,000 | 02:22:13,000 | 台糖公司的所以我們 |
| 02:22:13,000 | 02:22:15,000 | 的人員到現場去 |
| 02:22:15,000 | 02:22:17,000 | 簽封然後送驗 |
| 02:22:17,000 | 02:22:19,000 | 就整個遊草是 |
| 02:22:19,000 | 02:22:21,000 | 封存起來送驗 |
| 02:22:21,000 | 02:22:23,000 | 要等到驗收合格了 |
| 02:22:23,000 | 02:22:25,000 | 之後台糖公司才會收 |
| 02:22:25,000 | 02:22:27,000 | 那這一次是我們送驗的時候 |
| 02:22:27,000 | 02:22:29,000 | 他沒有符合台糖的招標 |
| 02:22:29,000 | 02:22:31,000 | 規範啦我們的招標規範 |
| 02:22:31,000 | 02:22:33,000 | 有很多項目 |
| 02:22:33,000 | 02:22:35,000 | 包括本篇皮的部分他是 |
| 02:22:35,000 | 02:22:37,000 | 沒有符合我們的招標規範 |
| 02:22:37,000 | 02:22:39,000 | 所以這一批我們是拒收的 |
| 02:22:39,000 | 02:22:41,000 | 是直接留在中聯 |
| 02:22:41,000 | 02:22:43,000 | 那到目前為止他還是簽封 |
| 02:22:43,000 | 02:22:45,000 | 在現場所以你們就是5月 |
| 02:22:45,000 | 02:22:47,000 | 11到中聯 |
| 02:22:47,000 | 02:22:49,000 | 的現場去哪邊 |
| 02:22:49,000 | 02:22:51,000 | 抽驗那抽驗 |
| 02:22:51,000 | 02:22:53,000 | 時間過多久 |
| 02:22:53,000 | 02:22:55,000 | 我們馬上送驗 |
| 02:22:55,000 | 02:22:57,000 | 在5月15號 |
| 02:22:57,000 | 02:22:59,000 | 報告就 |
| 02:22:59,000 | 02:23:01,000 | 出來那因為碰到禮拜六禮拜天 |
| 02:23:01,000 | 02:23:03,000 | 5月18號禮拜一 |
| 02:23:03,000 | 02:23:05,000 | 我們就通知那個 |
| 02:23:05,000 | 02:23:07,000 | 那個服貿公司說 |
| 02:23:07,000 | 02:23:09,000 | 他的這一批有的是沒有符合 |
| 02:23:09,000 | 02:23:11,000 | 台糖公司的規範我們 |
| 02:23:11,000 | 02:23:13,000 | 拒收對 |
| 02:23:13,000 | 02:23:15,000 | 那現在看起來 |
| 02:23:15,000 | 02:23:17,000 | 台中市政府 |
| 02:23:17,000 | 02:23:19,000 | 就是認為說 |
| 02:23:19,000 | 02:23:21,000 | 你除了拒收外 |
| 02:23:21,000 | 02:23:23,000 | 你認為他送驗不合格 |
| 02:23:23,000 | 02:23:25,000 | 他的緬比有超標 |
| 02:23:25,000 | 02:23:27,000 | 所以你也必須要通報 |
| 02:23:27,000 | 02:23:29,000 | 那在法令上你們必須要 |
| 02:23:29,000 | 02:23:31,000 | 這樣做嗎 |
| 02:23:31,000 | 02:23:33,000 | 公務員報告他這個沒有所謂 |
| 02:23:33,000 | 02:23:35,000 | 超標不超標的問題 |
| 02:23:35,000 | 02:23:37,000 | 因為現行的 |
| 02:23:37,000 | 02:23:39,000 | 食安法裡頭並沒有對於 |
| 02:23:39,000 | 02:23:41,000 | 出遊 |
| 02:23:41,000 | 02:23:43,000 | 有做任何安全的 |
| 02:23:43,000 | 02:23:45,000 | 標準規範 |
| 02:23:45,000 | 02:23:47,000 | 所以他就沒有所謂的 |
| 02:23:47,000 | 02:23:49,000 | 超標不超標的問題 |
| 02:23:49,000 | 02:23:51,000 | 他是沒有符合台糖公司 |
| 02:23:51,000 | 02:23:53,000 | 所訂的招標規範 |
| 02:23:53,000 | 02:23:55,000 | 所以我們拒收了 |
| 02:23:55,000 | 02:23:57,000 | 所以你們就決定拒收 |
| 02:23:57,000 | 02:23:59,000 | 那請食藥署說明 |
| 02:23:59,000 | 02:24:01,000 | 那台糖這樣的一個決策過程 |
| 02:24:01,000 | 02:24:03,000 | 有違反你們的食品衛生的管理法嗎 |
| 02:24:03,000 | 02:24:05,000 | 先講結論 |
| 02:24:05,000 | 02:24:07,000 | 並沒有 |
| 02:24:07,000 | 02:24:09,000 | 為什麼沒有 |
| 02:24:09,000 | 02:24:11,000 | 就是說大豆其實炸油之後 |
| 02:24:11,000 | 02:24:13,000 | 炸出來的油是最初級 |
| 02:24:13,000 | 02:24:15,000 | 初級的油裡面 |
| 02:24:15,000 | 02:24:17,000 | 其實是又酸又臭 |
| 02:24:17,000 | 02:24:19,000 | 顏色又不好 |
| 02:24:19,000 | 02:24:21,000 | 非常混濁 |
| 02:24:21,000 | 02:24:23,000 | 所以我們就要實用這個階段 |
| 02:24:23,000 | 02:24:25,000 | 那如何到最後 |
| 02:24:25,000 | 02:24:27,000 | 我們可以到我們要吃的油 |
| 02:24:27,000 | 02:24:29,000 | 其實要經過這個精煉 |
| 02:24:29,000 | 02:24:31,000 | 精煉過程其實可以下降了 |
| 02:24:31,000 | 02:24:33,000 | 88% |
| 02:24:33,000 | 02:24:35,000 | 所以這個下降的過程中 |
| 02:24:35,000 | 02:24:37,000 | 如果精煉之後我們要管制 |
| 02:24:37,000 | 02:24:39,000 | 最後出來的油是符合2ppb |
| 02:24:39,000 | 02:24:41,000 | 他其實是我們用我們的科學 |
| 02:24:41,000 | 02:24:43,000 | 能夠達到盡量低的程度 |
| 02:24:43,000 | 02:24:45,000 | 我們訂的這個標準 |
| 02:24:45,000 | 02:24:47,000 | 所以在過去台糖裡面 |
| 02:24:47,000 | 02:24:49,000 | 相關的油品以及後續 |
| 02:24:49,000 | 02:24:51,000 | 檢驗油品都是合格的 |
| 02:24:51,000 | 02:24:53,000 | 所以對於這樣子的一個 |
| 02:24:53,000 | 02:24:55,000 | 初級出來的油的層次 |
| 02:24:55,000 | 02:24:57,000 | 我們是不是要去管理 |
| 02:24:57,000 | 02:24:59,000 | 我們其實是應該在 |
| 02:24:59,000 | 02:25:01,000 | 所謂的HACCP裡面 |
| 02:25:01,000 | 02:25:03,000 | 重要的節點 |
| 02:25:03,000 | 02:25:05,000 | 決定你後續你要怎麼練 |
| 02:25:05,000 | 02:25:07,000 | 因為練一次練不成 |
| 02:25:07,000 | 02:25:09,000 | 走一圈不成 |
| 02:25:09,000 | 02:25:11,000 | 走兩圈也可以達到 |
| 02:25:11,000 | 02:25:13,000 | 2ppb的 |
| 02:25:13,000 | 02:25:15,000 | 只是他的成本就會另外一個層次 |
| 02:25:15,000 | 02:25:17,000 | 所以對於一個衛生主管機關 |
| 02:25:17,000 | 02:25:19,000 | 我們要把讓人民的 |
| 02:25:19,000 | 02:25:21,000 | 食品的安全的油品安全的 |
| 02:25:21,000 | 02:25:23,000 | 貶貧批的2ppb的這個目標 |
| 02:25:23,000 | 02:25:25,000 | 我們一定是抓在最後 |
| 02:25:25,000 | 02:25:27,000 | 你出來要給民眾消費的時候 |
| 02:25:27,000 | 02:25:29,000 | 所以你們是抓在最後 |
| 02:25:29,000 | 02:25:31,000 | 抓到這個他必須要到 |
| 02:25:31,000 | 02:25:33,000 | 2ppb的話 |
| 02:25:33,000 | 02:25:35,000 | 就是他可能 |
| 02:25:35,000 | 02:25:37,000 | 要投入適當的成本 |
| 02:25:37,000 | 02:25:39,000 | 讓他精煉的過程把他下降 |
| 02:25:39,000 | 02:25:41,000 | 這個是可以做到的 |
| 02:25:41,000 | 02:25:43,000 | 所以因此他對於 |
| 02:25:43,000 | 02:25:45,000 | 我們食品中汙染物質跟 |
| 02:25:45,000 | 02:25:47,000 | 毒素的衛生標準裡面 |
| 02:25:47,000 | 02:25:49,000 | 提到的富表3 |
| 02:25:49,000 | 02:25:51,000 | BAP裡面我們追締的是在 |
| 02:25:51,000 | 02:25:53,000 | 可食用的油脂 |
| 02:25:53,000 | 02:25:55,000 | 沒有到第七數 |
| 02:25:55,000 | 02:25:57,000 | 那是不是可以這樣說 |
| 02:25:57,000 | 02:25:59,000 | 如果台糖公司這一批 |
| 02:25:59,000 | 02:26:01,000 | 出油他一樣把他買進來了 |
| 02:26:01,000 | 02:26:03,000 | 但是他經過 |
| 02:26:03,000 | 02:26:05,000 | 投入成本 |
| 02:26:05,000 | 02:26:07,000 | 精煉再精煉還是可以把 |
| 02:26:07,000 | 02:26:09,000 | 他下降到最後變成 |
| 02:26:09,000 | 02:26:11,000 | 產品的時候下降 |
| 02:26:11,000 | 02:26:13,000 | 到了2ppb |
| 02:26:13,000 | 02:26:15,000 | 他就會變成一個合格的產品 |
| 02:26:15,000 | 02:26:17,000 | 是這樣子做法 |
| 02:26:17,000 | 02:26:19,000 | 是可以達到 |
| 02:26:19,000 | 02:26:21,000 | 只是說中間台糖如果他進了這批出油 |
| 02:26:21,000 | 02:26:23,000 | 他的原料 |
| 02:26:23,000 | 02:26:25,000 | 的標準是超標 |
| 02:26:25,000 | 02:26:27,000 | 是比較高不是叫超標 |
| 02:26:27,000 | 02:26:29,000 | 是相對高 |
| 02:26:29,000 | 02:26:31,000 | 台糖就要投入成本去讓他下降到 |
| 02:26:31,000 | 02:26:33,000 | 產品符合標準 |
| 02:26:33,000 | 02:26:35,000 | 我想他是一個很重要的參考點 |
| 02:26:35,000 | 02:26:37,000 | 所以對於整個所謂食品 |
| 02:26:37,000 | 02:26:39,000 | 科學裡面是有可以達到 |
| 02:26:39,000 | 02:26:41,000 | 讓他2的 |
| 02:26:41,000 | 02:26:43,000 | 所以這樣一個論述 |
| 02:26:43,000 | 02:26:45,000 | 可以了解起來基本上 |
| 02:26:45,000 | 02:26:47,000 | 台糖這中間沒有違反食品安全 |
| 02:26:47,000 | 02:26:49,000 | 衛生管理法 |
| 02:26:49,000 | 02:26:51,000 | 這個出油他可以選擇 |
| 02:26:51,000 | 02:26:53,000 | 要買進來 |
| 02:26:53,000 | 02:26:55,000 | 也可以選擇不要買進來 |
| 02:26:55,000 | 02:26:57,000 | 但是台糖至於自我的 |
| 02:26:57,000 | 02:26:59,000 | 合約的自我的規範 |
| 02:26:59,000 | 02:27:01,000 | 所以他認為說 |
| 02:27:01,000 | 02:27:03,000 | 這個出油的原料就不符合他們 |
| 02:27:03,000 | 02:27:05,000 | 的所以他們就不要買 |
| 02:27:05,000 | 02:27:07,000 | 不想買拒收 |
| 02:27:07,000 | 02:27:09,000 | 就是這個狀況 |
| 02:27:09,000 | 02:27:11,000 | 市長說你是不是像我這樣說 |
| 02:27:11,000 | 02:27:13,000 | 是沒有錯委員所講的是 |
| 02:27:13,000 | 02:27:15,000 | 完全正確 |
| 02:27:15,000 | 02:27:17,000 | 所以對你們 |
| 02:27:17,000 | 02:27:19,000 | 台糖來說你們這次購買 |
| 02:27:19,000 | 02:27:21,000 | 出油然後你們 |
| 02:27:21,000 | 02:27:23,000 | 拒收然後現在整個 |
| 02:27:23,000 | 02:27:25,000 | 台中市政府看起來 |
| 02:27:25,000 | 02:27:27,000 | 如休彥很努力的 |
| 02:27:27,000 | 02:27:29,000 | 要甩鍋給台糖然後認為說 |
| 02:27:29,000 | 02:27:31,000 | 你們拒收然後你們 |
| 02:27:31,000 | 02:27:33,000 | 違反通報義務那這件事 |
| 02:27:33,000 | 02:27:35,000 | 台糖你們要這樣 |
| 02:27:35,000 | 02:27:37,000 | 添添恐怕假嗎你們不 |
| 02:27:37,000 | 02:27:39,000 | 採取一些法律動作嗎 |
| 02:27:39,000 | 02:27:41,000 | 這個部分當然 |
| 02:27:41,000 | 02:27:43,000 | 我們也會來評估 |
| 02:27:43,000 | 02:27:45,000 | 也會跟律師這邊來 |
| 02:27:45,000 | 02:27:47,000 | 研究後續 |
| 02:27:47,000 | 02:27:49,000 | 在法律上面我們是不是要 |
| 02:27:49,000 | 02:27:51,000 | 採取任何的行動這個要經過 |
| 02:27:51,000 | 02:27:53,000 | 評估你們除了評估之外 |
| 02:27:53,000 | 02:27:55,000 | 你們要去思考這個 |
| 02:27:55,000 | 02:27:57,000 | 盧市長已經多次把你們 |
| 02:27:57,000 | 02:27:59,000 | 台糖的生育 |
| 02:27:59,000 | 02:28:01,000 | 已經做了多次的傷害 |
| 02:28:01,000 | 02:28:03,000 | 從上一次 |
| 02:28:03,000 | 02:28:05,000 | 那塊豬肉 |
| 02:28:05,000 | 02:28:07,000 | 裡面在那裡 |
| 02:28:07,000 | 02:28:09,000 | 有什麼 |
| 02:28:09,000 | 02:28:11,000 | 瘦肉精的成分 |
| 02:28:11,000 | 02:28:13,000 | 然後驗驗驗驗 |
| 02:28:13,000 | 02:28:15,000 | 就那一塊豬肉其他全部合格 |
| 02:28:15,000 | 02:28:17,000 | 台也是把你們攻擊成這樣 |
| 02:28:17,000 | 02:28:19,000 | 那現在又來了 |
| 02:28:19,000 | 02:28:21,000 | 看起來就是都不去講中聯 |
| 02:28:21,000 | 02:28:23,000 | 中聯的油的原料 |
| 02:28:23,000 | 02:28:25,000 | 鈔標然後現在 |
| 02:28:25,000 | 02:28:27,000 | 全部都要說你們的問題 |
| 02:28:27,000 | 02:28:29,000 | 我覺得台糖你們應該要採取一些 |
| 02:28:29,000 | 02:28:31,000 | 動作吧你們台糖畢竟是 |
| 02:28:31,000 | 02:28:33,000 | 有對外營業你們還是有自己的商譽 |
| 02:28:33,000 | 02:28:35,000 | 是那可能 |
| 02:28:35,000 | 02:28:37,000 | 市長他對我們 |
| 02:28:37,000 | 02:28:39,000 | 可能有一些誤解 |
| 02:28:39,000 | 02:28:41,000 | 那我想我們有機會的話 |
| 02:28:41,000 | 02:28:43,000 | 也希望說能夠 |
| 02:28:43,000 | 02:28:45,000 | 你去外面講是叫欺負而已 |
| 02:28:47,000 | 02:28:49,000 | 差不多每天欺負假的 |
| 02:28:49,000 | 02:28:51,000 | 你們適度的時候 |
| 02:28:51,000 | 02:28:53,000 | 只能用一些法律動作 |
| 02:28:53,000 | 02:28:55,000 | 才能捍衛自己的 |
| 02:28:55,000 | 02:28:57,000 | 公司的一個名譽 |
| 02:28:57,000 | 02:28:59,000 | 我真的強力建議台糖必須要這樣做 |
| 02:28:59,000 | 02:29:01,000 | 好不好 |
| 02:29:01,000 | 02:29:03,000 | 市長我是不是可以再請部長 |
| 02:29:05,000 | 02:29:07,000 | 不好意思可以再給我 |
| 02:29:07,000 | 02:29:09,000 | 兩分鐘就好 |
| 02:29:09,000 | 02:29:11,000 | 我掃聲說話語速比較慢 |
| 02:29:11,000 | 02:29:13,000 | 市長好 |
| 02:29:13,000 | 02:29:15,000 | 市長我想要跟你們說 |
| 02:29:15,000 | 02:29:17,000 | 現在我們知道 |
| 02:29:17,000 | 02:29:19,000 | 新的能源現在 |
| 02:29:19,000 | 02:29:21,000 | 包括台糖這邊可以都先會 |
| 02:29:23,000 | 02:29:25,000 | 現在過去 |
| 02:29:25,000 | 02:29:27,000 | 我們都在說氫能 |
| 02:29:27,000 | 02:29:29,000 | 那氫能它有一個問題就是說 |
| 02:29:29,000 | 02:29:31,000 | 甲烷裂解自氫後 |
| 02:29:31,000 | 02:29:33,000 | 甲烷裂解 |
| 02:29:33,000 | 02:29:35,000 | 過去的自氫它可能是在 |
| 02:29:35,000 | 02:29:37,000 | 保存的成本太高 |
| 02:29:37,000 | 02:29:39,000 | 所以變成說氫的這樣的一個 |
| 02:29:39,000 | 02:29:41,000 | 氫能源 |
| 02:29:41,000 | 02:29:43,000 | 在推廣上有一個困難 |
| 02:29:43,000 | 02:29:45,000 | 那現在整個技術的進步 |
| 02:29:45,000 | 02:29:47,000 | 而且我們知道現在 |
| 02:29:47,000 | 02:29:49,000 | 大家在想如何用氫 |
| 02:29:49,000 | 02:29:51,000 | 來產生能源的話 |
| 02:29:51,000 | 02:29:53,000 | 最好的方式就是用甲烷 |
| 02:29:53,000 | 02:29:55,000 | 來自氫 |
| 02:29:55,000 | 02:29:57,000 | 甲烷我們知道那個化學式 |
| 02:29:57,000 | 02:29:59,000 | 化學式一機要打一加溫 |
| 02:29:59,000 | 02:30:01,000 | 差不多升高到200度 |
| 02:30:01,000 | 02:30:03,000 | 然後它裡面就會跑出氫 |
| 02:30:03,000 | 02:30:05,000 | 所以它整個運輸的過程 |
| 02:30:05,000 | 02:30:07,000 | 都用甲烷來運輸 |
| 02:30:07,000 | 02:30:09,000 | 甲烷我們也知道那就是酒精 |
| 02:30:09,000 | 02:30:11,000 | 工業酒精就是甲烷 |
| 02:30:11,000 | 02:30:13,000 | 所以運輸甲烷然後到了適當的地點 |
| 02:30:13,000 | 02:30:15,000 | 把它升溫 |
| 02:30:15,000 | 02:30:17,000 | 那就可以產生氫 |
| 02:30:17,000 | 02:30:19,000 | 氫就可以來產生能源 |
| 02:30:19,000 | 02:30:21,000 | 這一塊是最好現在 |
| 02:30:21,000 | 02:30:23,000 | 在發展新能源的時候 |
| 02:30:23,000 | 02:30:25,000 | 未來的氫能 |
| 02:30:25,000 | 02:30:27,000 | 用甲烷自氫是最好的方式 |
| 02:30:29,000 | 02:30:31,000 | 因為我們知道過去要保存氫能 |
| 02:30:31,000 | 02:30:33,000 | 就要用極低溫 |
| 02:30:33,000 | 02:30:35,000 | 要到-253度 |
| 02:30:35,000 | 02:30:37,000 | 所以它等於產生氫能的過程中 |
| 02:30:37,000 | 02:30:39,000 | 又大量的耗能 |
| 02:30:39,000 | 02:30:41,000 | 但是用甲烷自氫就不用了 |
| 02:30:41,000 | 02:30:43,000 | 整個路線 |
| 02:30:43,000 | 02:30:45,000 | 是液態運輸 |
| 02:30:45,000 | 02:30:47,000 | 因為就是用甲烷 |
| 02:30:47,000 | 02:30:49,000 | 然後到了適當的地方 |
| 02:30:49,000 | 02:30:51,000 | 再來用化學式的轉換 |
| 02:30:51,000 | 02:30:53,000 | 然後產生氫然後就可以產生能源 |
| 02:30:53,000 | 02:30:55,000 | 是不是這一塊我們經濟部 |
| 02:30:55,000 | 02:30:57,000 | 有要投入適度的研究呢 |
| 02:30:59,000 | 02:31:01,000 | 事實上各種的方式 |
| 02:31:01,000 | 02:31:03,000 | 我們都有投入相關的研究 |
| 02:31:03,000 | 02:31:05,000 | 但是就是說 |
| 02:31:05,000 | 02:31:07,000 | 那個時機跟成本的問題 |
| 02:31:07,000 | 02:31:09,000 | 如果這個 |
| 02:31:09,000 | 02:31:11,000 | 成本可以下降下來的話 |
| 02:31:11,000 | 02:31:13,000 | 那我們當然是樂於 |
| 02:31:13,000 | 02:31:15,000 | 可以來使用 |
| 02:31:15,000 | 02:31:17,000 | 不過現在我看還是在 |
| 02:31:17,000 | 02:31:19,000 | 屬於這個研究跟示範 |
| 02:31:19,000 | 02:31:21,000 | 階段 |
| 02:31:21,000 | 02:31:23,000 | 當然是說 |
| 02:31:23,000 | 02:31:25,000 | 但是企業事實上跑在前面 |
| 02:31:25,000 | 02:31:27,000 | 部長我知道你應該也知道 |
| 02:31:27,000 | 02:31:29,000 | 很多企業事實上對於 |
| 02:31:29,000 | 02:31:31,000 | 都有這樣的 |
| 02:31:31,000 | 02:31:33,000 | 然後他們現在認為甲烷自氫已經是一個 |
| 02:31:33,000 | 02:31:35,000 | 未來很可行的方向 |
| 02:31:35,000 | 02:31:37,000 | 看起來日本在這一塊 |
| 02:31:37,000 | 02:31:39,000 | 跑得很快 |
| 02:31:39,000 | 02:31:41,000 | 那我們台灣事實上也可以來做這樣的努力 |
| 02:31:41,000 | 02:31:43,000 | 但是企業在 |
| 02:31:43,000 | 02:31:45,000 | 努力這一塊的時候 |
| 02:31:45,000 | 02:31:47,000 | 他們會發現有一個問題 |
| 02:31:47,000 | 02:31:49,000 | 就是我們現在在甲烷自氫的 |
| 02:31:49,000 | 02:31:51,000 | 過程中 |
| 02:31:51,000 | 02:31:53,000 | 甲烷的產生事實上也可以 |
| 02:31:53,000 | 02:31:55,000 | 同時去處理很多農業廢棄物 |
| 02:31:55,000 | 02:31:57,000 | 包括 |
| 02:31:57,000 | 02:31:59,000 | 玉米或者是 |
| 02:31:59,000 | 02:32:01,000 | 一些積分 |
| 02:32:01,000 | 02:32:03,000 | 怎樣 |
| 02:32:03,000 | 02:32:05,000 | 這樣的一個農業廢棄物他們事實上就會產生 |
| 02:32:05,000 | 02:32:07,000 | 甲烷 |
| 02:32:07,000 | 02:32:09,000 | 如果你透過這個農廢 |
| 02:32:09,000 | 02:32:11,000 | 產生甲烷之後 |
| 02:32:11,000 | 02:32:13,000 | 然後你再把它來用剛剛的技術 |
| 02:32:13,000 | 02:32:15,000 | 然後來自氫的話 |
| 02:32:15,000 | 02:32:17,000 | 基本上這樣的一個概念 |
| 02:32:17,000 | 02:32:19,000 | 它會應該要符合 |
| 02:32:19,000 | 02:32:21,000 | RE100 |
| 02:32:21,000 | 02:32:23,000 | 能源的一個需求 |
| 02:32:23,000 | 02:32:25,000 | 那這個在國外事實上是同意的 |
| 02:32:25,000 | 02:32:27,000 | 用農廢 |
| 02:32:27,000 | 02:32:29,000 | 然後來製造甲烷 |
| 02:32:29,000 | 02:32:31,000 | 然後甲烷再轉換成氫 |
| 02:32:31,000 | 02:32:33,000 | 這樣一個化學式變化 |
| 02:32:33,000 | 02:32:35,000 | 基本上是符合RE100的 |
| 02:32:35,000 | 02:32:37,000 | 報告委員現在如果用農廢 |
| 02:32:37,000 | 02:32:39,000 | 來可以轉換成 |
| 02:32:39,000 | 02:32:41,000 | 發電的部分現在我們已經折成 |
| 02:32:41,000 | 02:32:43,000 | 台南公司大概有幾個 |
| 02:32:43,000 | 02:32:45,000 | 示範案已經要開始運行 |
| 02:32:45,000 | 02:32:47,000 | 那希望明年可以開始 |
| 02:32:47,000 | 02:32:49,000 | 明年可以開始 |
| 02:32:49,000 | 02:32:51,000 | 但是卡在現在我們的 |
| 02:32:51,000 | 02:32:53,000 | 再生能源發展條例 |
| 02:32:53,000 | 02:32:55,000 | 我們再生能源是現在 |
| 02:32:55,000 | 02:32:57,000 | 生殖能的定義 |
| 02:32:57,000 | 02:32:59,000 | 是指 |
| 02:32:59,000 | 02:33:01,000 | 如果是生殖的部分尤其是 |
| 02:33:01,000 | 02:33:03,000 | 農廢的部分這個部分是 |
| 02:33:03,000 | 02:33:05,000 | 是可以的是OK的是符合我們 |
| 02:33:05,000 | 02:33:07,000 | 沒有沒有現在業界普遍還是認為說 |
| 02:33:07,000 | 02:33:09,000 | 因為它不是直接 |
| 02:33:09,000 | 02:33:11,000 | 產生能源它是能 |
| 02:33:11,000 | 02:33:13,000 | 農廢先產生甲烷 |
| 02:33:13,000 | 02:33:15,000 | 再產生能源如果是農廢 |
| 02:33:15,000 | 02:33:17,000 | 就早期發電那就是有 |
| 02:33:17,000 | 02:33:19,000 | 綠能的一個標章 |
| 02:33:19,000 | 02:33:21,000 | 你這一塊因為它中間就多了 |
| 02:33:21,000 | 02:33:23,000 | 一個製程它是由農廢 |
| 02:33:23,000 | 02:33:25,000 | 變甲烷甲烷再變氫 |
| 02:33:25,000 | 02:33:27,000 | 所以甲烷變氫這一塊 |
| 02:33:27,000 | 02:33:29,000 | 沒有綠能標章那這個好可惜 |
| 02:33:29,000 | 02:33:31,000 | 包括說英國現在 |
| 02:33:31,000 | 02:33:33,000 | 他們像AZ藥廠他們 |
| 02:33:33,000 | 02:33:35,000 | 就有生物甲烷工廠 |
| 02:33:35,000 | 02:33:37,000 | 他們認為這個產生的 |
| 02:33:37,000 | 02:33:39,000 | 就是叫做潔淨的一個能源因為他們 |
| 02:33:39,000 | 02:33:41,000 | 是用農廢去去轉換 |
| 02:33:41,000 | 02:33:43,000 | 但是我們卻在這一塊轉換過程 |
| 02:33:43,000 | 02:33:45,000 | 少了這一段 |
| 02:33:45,000 | 02:33:47,000 | 這件事很可惜所以我覺得 |
| 02:33:47,000 | 02:33:49,000 | 部長因為我們 |
| 02:33:49,000 | 02:33:51,000 | 要鼓勵企業去跑 |
| 02:33:51,000 | 02:33:53,000 | 跑在我們一些政策的 |
| 02:33:53,000 | 02:33:55,000 | 前面那也要給他們 |
| 02:33:55,000 | 02:33:57,000 | 充足的誘因企業當然會認為說 |
| 02:33:57,000 | 02:33:59,000 | 我去從事 |
| 02:33:59,000 | 02:34:01,000 | 用農廢轉換甲烷 |
| 02:34:01,000 | 02:34:03,000 | 轉換成酒精酒精轉換成 |
| 02:34:03,000 | 02:34:05,000 | 氫能這個是很好的 |
| 02:34:05,000 | 02:34:07,000 | 一個方向 |
| 02:34:07,000 | 02:34:09,000 | 好那這個部分我們來研究 |
| 02:34:09,000 | 02:34:11,000 | 看看怎麼樣來做處理 |
| 02:34:11,000 | 02:34:13,000 | 好我現在最後30秒 |
| 02:34:13,000 | 02:34:15,000 | 就是我的主題 |
| 02:34:15,000 | 02:34:17,000 | 我剛才說的就是希望說 |
| 02:34:17,000 | 02:34:19,000 | 事實上我們經濟委員會 |
| 02:34:19,000 | 02:34:21,000 | 也有去考察我們現在 |
| 02:34:21,000 | 02:34:23,000 | 在新港的農場 |
| 02:34:23,000 | 02:34:25,000 | 我們台糖在新港的農場 |
| 02:34:25,000 | 02:34:27,000 | 那這個農場 |
| 02:34:27,000 | 02:34:29,000 | 它是臨近於我們嘉義 |
| 02:34:29,000 | 02:34:31,000 | 科學園區距離嘉義科學園區 |
| 02:34:31,000 | 02:34:33,000 | 大概只有 |
| 02:34:33,000 | 02:34:35,000 | 只有大概 |
| 02:34:35,000 | 02:34:37,000 | 7分鐘的車程 |
| 02:34:37,000 | 02:34:39,000 | 這個新港農場跟嘉義 |
| 02:34:39,000 | 02:34:41,000 | 家科離家科很近 |
| 02:34:41,000 | 02:34:43,000 | 那我們覺得這一個地方 |
| 02:34:43,000 | 02:34:45,000 | 它很適合來做 |
| 02:34:45,000 | 02:34:47,000 | 新能源的產業園區 |
| 02:34:47,000 | 02:34:49,000 | 因為我們現在國家的一個 |
| 02:34:49,000 | 02:34:51,000 | 產業園區的佈局上 |
| 02:34:51,000 | 02:34:53,000 | 現在少了對於能源 |
| 02:34:53,000 | 02:34:55,000 | 以能源為主體的 |
| 02:34:55,000 | 02:34:57,000 | 整個的一個產業園區 |
| 02:34:57,000 | 02:34:59,000 | 的一個開發的目標 |
| 02:34:59,000 | 02:35:01,000 | 那我們從過去我們剛剛講的 |
| 02:35:01,000 | 02:35:03,000 | 不管是氫能或者是 |
| 02:35:03,000 | 02:35:05,000 | 一些綠能的一些研究 |
| 02:35:05,000 | 02:35:07,000 | 還是需要一些有一些產業的群聚的話 |
| 02:35:07,000 | 02:35:09,000 | 那如果我們可以在這裡 |
| 02:35:09,000 | 02:35:11,000 | 把它變成新能源的產業園區的話 |
| 02:35:11,000 | 02:35:13,000 | 是可以鼓勵 |
| 02:35:13,000 | 02:35:15,000 | 更多願意去研發 |
| 02:35:15,000 | 02:35:17,000 | 新能源的這樣的一個企業的進駐 |
| 02:35:17,000 | 02:35:19,000 | 然後他們如果 |
| 02:35:19,000 | 02:35:21,000 | 在這件事情可以符合 |
| 02:35:21,000 | 02:35:23,000 | R100的話他們就 |
| 02:35:23,000 | 02:35:25,000 | 最近的地方就是因為台積電 |
| 02:35:25,000 | 02:35:27,000 | 在嘉義科學園區 |
| 02:35:27,000 | 02:35:29,000 | 那如果距離7分鐘支援的 |
| 02:35:29,000 | 02:35:31,000 | 新港的農場變成一個新能源 |
| 02:35:31,000 | 02:35:33,000 | 產業園區的話也方便 |
| 02:35:33,000 | 02:35:35,000 | 這些新能源的企業 |
| 02:35:35,000 | 02:35:37,000 | 可以跟先進的科技產業 |
| 02:35:37,000 | 02:35:39,000 | 他們所需要R100的需求 |
| 02:35:39,000 | 02:35:41,000 | 可以對接 |
| 02:35:41,000 | 02:35:43,000 | 所以這件事情我們希望部長 |
| 02:35:43,000 | 02:35:45,000 | 可以趕快來啟動然後來 |
| 02:35:45,000 | 02:35:47,000 | 研究這個新港農場 |
| 02:35:47,000 | 02:35:49,000 | 是否可以讓它轉型成 |
| 02:35:49,000 | 02:35:51,000 | 一個新的產業園區 |
| 02:35:51,000 | 02:35:53,000 | 可以可以 |
| 02:35:53,000 | 02:35:55,000 | 那部長這件事要拜託你 |
| 02:35:55,000 | 02:35:57,000 | 謝謝委員 |
| 02:35:57,000 | 02:35:59,000 | 接下來謝謝部長 |
| 02:35:59,000 | 02:36:01,000 | 接下來我們請政天才委員 |
| 02:36:01,000 | 02:36:03,000 | 謝謝 |
| 02:36:13,000 | 02:36:17,000 | 主席有請經濟部 |
| 02:36:17,000 | 02:36:19,000 | 我換台堂好了 |
| 02:36:19,000 | 02:36:21,000 | 台堂副總 |
| 02:36:21,000 | 02:36:23,000 | 有請台堂副總石耀署 |
| 02:36:23,000 | 02:36:25,000 | 石耀署江署長 |
| 02:36:25,000 | 02:36:27,000 | 好 |
| 02:36:29,000 | 02:36:31,000 | 今天這個 |
| 02:36:31,000 | 02:36:33,000 | 謝謝我們召委安排 |
| 02:36:33,000 | 02:36:35,000 | 那經濟部的報告裡面 |
| 02:36:35,000 | 02:36:37,000 | 中聯遊職實踐及 |
| 02:36:37,000 | 02:36:39,000 | 遊品食安管控 |
| 02:36:39,000 | 02:36:41,000 | 特別還是提到說 |
| 02:36:41,000 | 02:36:43,000 | 這個台堂向 |
| 02:36:43,000 | 02:36:45,000 | 福茂採購黃豆出遊 |
| 02:36:45,000 | 02:36:47,000 | 因為這個 |
| 02:36:47,000 | 02:36:49,000 | 本篇筆不符切 |
| 02:36:49,000 | 02:36:51,000 | 然後你們就記收 |
| 02:36:51,000 | 02:36:53,000 | 所以你們認為 |
| 02:36:53,000 | 02:36:55,000 | 這樣只是記收 |
| 02:36:55,000 | 02:36:57,000 | 不需要 |
| 02:36:57,000 | 02:36:59,000 | 做任何的通報 |
| 02:36:59,000 | 02:37:01,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 02:37:01,000 | 02:37:03,000 | 因為原料油 |
| 02:37:03,000 | 02:37:05,000 | 原料油它不是 |
| 02:37:05,000 | 02:37:07,000 | 最終的使用油 |
| 02:37:07,000 | 02:37:09,000 | 那依據現行的 |
| 02:37:09,000 | 02:37:11,000 | 食安法 |
| 02:37:11,000 | 02:37:13,000 | 裡頭它並沒有對原料油 |
| 02:37:13,000 | 02:37:15,000 | 有做任何的安全 |
| 02:37:15,000 | 02:37:17,000 | 標準規範 |
| 02:37:17,000 | 02:37:19,000 | 那 |
| 02:37:19,000 | 02:37:21,000 | 雖然說它的 |
| 02:37:21,000 | 02:37:23,000 | 貶評筆我們這次 |
| 02:37:23,000 | 02:37:25,000 | 採購的這個中聯所教的 |
| 02:37:25,000 | 02:37:27,000 | 這個本篇筆 |
| 02:37:27,000 | 02:37:29,000 | 它是有偏高 |
| 02:37:29,000 | 02:37:31,000 | 它是不符合台堂公司的 |
| 02:37:31,000 | 02:37:33,000 | 採購規範 |
| 02:37:33,000 | 02:37:35,000 | 我們的規範是比較嚴謹 |
| 02:37:35,000 | 02:37:37,000 | 那它沒有符合我們的規範 |
| 02:37:37,000 | 02:37:39,000 | 有沒有符合這個 |
| 02:37:39,000 | 02:37:41,000 | 其他我們 |
| 02:37:41,000 | 02:37:43,000 | 衛福部的相關的規範 |
| 02:37:43,000 | 02:37:45,000 | 它不再 |
| 02:37:45,000 | 02:37:47,000 | 不再需要通報的項目裡面 |
| 02:37:47,000 | 02:37:49,000 | 好你認為不需要通報 |
| 02:37:49,000 | 02:37:51,000 | 這個 |
| 02:37:51,000 | 02:37:53,000 | 就如同經濟部的 |
| 02:37:53,000 | 02:37:55,000 | 報告裡面是這樣說的 |
| 02:37:55,000 | 02:37:57,000 | 這個認為不需要通報 |
| 02:37:59,000 | 02:38:01,000 | 我們看台南市食品安全管理制度條例 |
| 02:38:01,000 | 02:38:03,000 | 食品業者發現 |
| 02:38:03,000 | 02:38:05,000 | 上游供應之食品 |
| 02:38:05,000 | 02:38:07,000 | 有危害消費者生命身體 |
| 02:38:07,000 | 02:38:09,000 | 或健康之餘食 |
| 02:38:09,000 | 02:38:11,000 | 因自動消費者 |
| 02:38:11,000 | 02:38:13,000 | 生命生命或生命 |
| 02:38:13,000 | 02:38:15,000 | 或健康之餘食 |
| 02:38:15,000 | 02:38:17,000 | 因自發限時 |
| 02:38:17,000 | 02:38:19,000 | 起 |
| 02:38:19,000 | 02:38:21,000 | 48小時內 |
| 02:38:21,000 | 02:38:23,000 | 主動通報本府衛生局 |
| 02:38:23,000 | 02:38:25,000 | 請問一下 |
| 02:38:25,000 | 02:38:27,000 | 那個食藥署 |
| 02:38:27,000 | 02:38:29,000 | 除了台南市有這樣的規定之外 |
| 02:38:29,000 | 02:38:31,000 | 其他的縣市 |
| 02:38:31,000 | 02:38:33,000 | 有沒有這樣的規定 |
| 02:38:33,000 | 02:38:35,000 | 我先跟委員報告 |
| 02:38:35,000 | 02:38:37,000 | 台南市食品安全管理制度條例裡面 |
| 02:38:37,000 | 02:38:39,000 | 特別提到的食品業者 |
| 02:38:39,000 | 02:38:41,000 | 發現上游供應之食品 |
| 02:38:41,000 | 02:38:43,000 | 有危害消費者的生命 |
| 02:38:43,000 | 02:38:45,000 | 那我不曉得委員 |
| 02:38:45,000 | 02:38:47,000 | 或者是一般民眾知不知道 |
| 02:38:47,000 | 02:38:49,000 | 脫交原因長什麼樣子 |
| 02:38:49,000 | 02:38:51,000 | 它其實又酸又臭 |
| 02:38:51,000 | 02:38:53,000 | 又混濁 |
| 02:38:53,000 | 02:38:55,000 | 根本就不是實用的 |
| 02:38:55,000 | 02:38:57,000 | 它不會再是實用 |
| 02:38:57,000 | 02:38:59,000 | 因為它是在黃豆炸出來 |
| 02:38:59,000 | 02:39:01,000 | 用我們的化學炸取 |
| 02:39:01,000 | 02:39:03,000 | 這裡面的 |
| 02:39:03,000 | 02:39:05,000 | 之後呢要準備要去做精煉 |
| 02:39:05,000 | 02:39:07,000 | 所以它是一個整個 |
| 02:39:07,000 | 02:39:09,000 | 製程裡面HACCP |
| 02:39:09,000 | 02:39:11,000 | 重要的節點一個重要的參考 |
| 02:39:11,000 | 02:39:13,000 | 如果看到14.97PPB |
| 02:39:13,000 | 02:39:15,000 | 我們要如何 |
| 02:39:15,000 | 02:39:17,000 | 啟動後面的精煉的過程 |
| 02:39:17,000 | 02:39:19,000 | 達到精煉 |
| 02:39:19,000 | 02:39:21,000 | 符合最後食品油 |
| 02:39:21,000 | 02:39:23,000 | 小於2PPB的努力 |
| 02:39:23,000 | 02:39:25,000 | 這是食品科學 |
| 02:39:25,000 | 02:39:27,000 | 絕對做得到的事情 |
| 02:39:27,000 | 02:39:29,000 | 所以目前對於所謂的脫交原油 |
| 02:39:29,000 | 02:39:31,000 | 在這個階段 |
| 02:39:31,000 | 02:39:33,000 | 台糖去取然後去封存 |
| 02:39:33,000 | 02:39:35,000 | 去驗出來的 |
| 02:39:35,000 | 02:39:37,000 | 目前並不跟我們的食安法 |
| 02:39:37,000 | 02:39:39,000 | 第七條第五項裡面的 |
| 02:39:39,000 | 02:39:41,000 | 我們食品裡面油 |
| 02:39:41,000 | 02:39:43,000 | 去管理上面的目的是不一樣的 |
| 02:39:43,000 | 02:39:45,000 | 沒有對它做要求 |
| 02:39:45,000 | 02:39:47,000 | 有這個其實可以練得下去的 |
| 02:39:47,000 | 02:39:49,000 | 跟您說明一下 |
| 02:39:49,000 | 02:39:51,000 | 請問一下 |
| 02:39:51,000 | 02:39:53,000 | 食品安全衛生管理法第3條 |
| 02:39:53,000 | 02:39:55,000 | 食品有做定義 |
| 02:39:55,000 | 02:39:57,000 | 食品 |
| 02:39:57,000 | 02:39:59,000 | 只供人飲食 |
| 02:39:59,000 | 02:40:01,000 | 或舉教之產品 |
| 02:40:01,000 | 02:40:03,000 | 及其原料 |
| 02:40:03,000 | 02:40:05,000 | 它不是原料嗎 |
| 02:40:05,000 | 02:40:07,000 | 我跟委員做了一些說明 |
| 02:40:07,000 | 02:40:09,000 | 我想 |
| 02:40:09,000 | 02:40:11,000 | 這個是整個原料 |
| 02:40:11,000 | 02:40:13,000 | 我們要問一件事情 |
| 02:40:13,000 | 02:40:15,000 | 大豆沙拉油的原料 |
| 02:40:15,000 | 02:40:17,000 | 大豆還是脫交原油 |
| 02:40:17,000 | 02:40:19,000 | 一定是大豆 |
| 02:40:19,000 | 02:40:21,000 | 原料在大豆 |
| 02:40:21,000 | 02:40:23,000 | 它不會是在脫交原油 |
| 02:40:23,000 | 02:40:25,000 | 在製成過程中 |
| 02:40:25,000 | 02:40:27,000 | 有一個我繼續要努力 |
| 02:40:27,000 | 02:40:29,000 | 讓它達到2PPB的 |
| 02:40:29,000 | 02:40:31,000 | 一個油品上面 |
| 02:40:31,000 | 02:40:33,000 | 說它是原料 |
| 02:40:33,000 | 02:40:35,000 | 這個是不符合在管理上面的 |
| 02:40:35,000 | 02:40:37,000 | 邏輯以及食安法第7條第5項裡面 |
| 02:40:37,000 | 02:40:39,000 | 所謂的脫交原油 |
| 02:40:39,000 | 02:40:41,000 | 不符合這樣通報的義務 |
| 02:40:41,000 | 02:40:43,000 | 它其實是完全不可供食品的 |
| 02:40:43,000 | 02:40:45,000 | 按照你的說辭的話 |
| 02:40:45,000 | 02:40:47,000 | 那不就代表 |
| 02:40:47,000 | 02:40:49,000 | 台糖不應該 |
| 02:40:49,000 | 02:40:51,000 | 計收嗎 |
| 02:40:51,000 | 02:40:53,000 | 它應該要計收 |
| 02:40:53,000 | 02:40:55,000 | 為什麼他們是 |
| 02:40:55,000 | 02:40:57,000 | 我就了解不應該替他們代答 |
| 02:40:57,000 | 02:40:59,000 | 他們是因為合約說 |
| 02:40:59,000 | 02:41:01,000 | 要2PPB的 |
| 02:41:01,000 | 02:41:03,000 | 如果人家供油給你可以2PPB |
| 02:41:03,000 | 02:41:05,000 | 其他就收 |
| 02:41:05,000 | 02:41:07,000 | 但是這點 |
| 02:41:07,000 | 02:41:09,000 | 所以你認為台糖 |
| 02:41:09,000 | 02:41:11,000 | 他們的 |
| 02:41:11,000 | 02:41:13,000 | 自我的要求 |
| 02:41:13,000 | 02:41:15,000 | 太嚴格了是不是 |
| 02:41:15,000 | 02:41:17,000 | 你認為他們的 |
| 02:41:17,000 | 02:41:19,000 | 自我要求這麼高 |
| 02:41:19,000 | 02:41:21,000 | 是不是你們 |
| 02:41:21,000 | 02:41:23,000 | 認為太嚴格了 |
| 02:41:25,000 | 02:41:27,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 02:41:27,000 | 02:41:29,000 | 當初 |
| 02:41:29,000 | 02:41:31,000 | 對不對 |
| 02:41:31,000 | 02:41:33,000 | 如果你們的契約 |
| 02:41:33,000 | 02:41:35,000 | 如果你們跟中聯的 |
| 02:41:35,000 | 02:41:37,000 | 契約原來就這樣規定 |
| 02:41:37,000 | 02:41:39,000 | 那當然是這樣規定 |
| 02:41:39,000 | 02:41:41,000 | 做最嚴格的要求是對的 |
| 02:41:41,000 | 02:41:43,000 | 而到現在為止 |
| 02:41:43,000 | 02:41:45,000 | 食藥署 |
| 02:41:45,000 | 02:41:47,000 | 你們還在堅持 |
| 02:41:47,000 | 02:41:49,000 | 你們的意見 |
| 02:41:49,000 | 02:41:51,000 | 毫無檢討 |
| 02:41:51,000 | 02:41:53,000 | 你也許可以說 |
| 02:41:53,000 | 02:41:55,000 | 食品衛生 |
| 02:41:55,000 | 02:41:57,000 | 管理法有檢討 |
| 02:41:57,000 | 02:41:59,000 | 需要檢討 |
| 02:41:59,000 | 02:42:01,000 | 因為現在的規定 |
| 02:42:01,000 | 02:42:03,000 | 我們應該參考 |
| 02:42:03,000 | 02:42:05,000 | 台糖的高標準 |
| 02:42:05,000 | 02:42:07,000 | 來去 |
| 02:42:07,000 | 02:42:09,000 | 訂定去修正 |
| 02:42:09,000 | 02:42:11,000 | 然後 |
| 02:42:11,000 | 02:42:13,000 | 對於所謂的原料 |
| 02:42:13,000 | 02:42:15,000 | 我在怎麼看 |
| 02:42:15,000 | 02:42:17,000 | 這個食品的定義 |
| 02:42:17,000 | 02:42:19,000 | 就是包含它的原料 |
| 02:42:19,000 | 02:42:21,000 | 我聽你的老半天 |
| 02:42:21,000 | 02:42:23,000 | 你剛才的說明 |
| 02:42:23,000 | 02:42:25,000 | 也看不出 |
| 02:42:25,000 | 02:42:27,000 | 什麼很專業的 |
| 02:42:27,000 | 02:42:29,000 | 就是原料 |
| 02:42:29,000 | 02:42:31,000 | 你還能做什麼解釋 |
| 02:42:31,000 | 02:42:33,000 | 跟委員這邊進入報告 |
| 02:42:33,000 | 02:42:35,000 | 對於裡面的脫膠原油 |
| 02:42:35,000 | 02:42:37,000 | 裡面的原料我相信是在黃豆 |
| 02:42:37,000 | 02:42:39,000 | 大家是無庸置疑 |
| 02:42:39,000 | 02:42:41,000 | 至於在中間製程中要不要去訂這個 |
| 02:42:41,000 | 02:42:43,000 | 我覺得現在修法也提出來 |
| 02:42:43,000 | 02:42:45,000 | 大家可以共同去討論 |
| 02:42:45,000 | 02:42:47,000 | 至於說 |
| 02:42:47,000 | 02:42:49,000 | 如果是2.5ppb |
| 02:42:49,000 | 02:42:51,000 | 3ppb 5ppb |
| 02:42:51,000 | 02:42:53,000 | 到底接下來面對這些油品 |
| 02:42:53,000 | 02:42:55,000 | 要做什麼樣子的管制 |
| 02:42:55,000 | 02:42:57,000 | 我會安排這個 |
| 02:42:57,000 | 02:42:59,000 | 就是大家來討論 |
| 02:42:59,000 | 02:43:01,000 | 但是你剛才的說明 |
| 02:43:01,000 | 02:43:03,000 | 就認為 |
| 02:43:03,000 | 02:43:05,000 | 就認為說 |
| 02:43:05,000 | 02:43:07,000 | 台糖標準太高 |
| 02:43:07,000 | 02:43:09,000 | 會這樣的一個 |
| 02:43:09,000 | 02:43:11,000 | 會這樣的一個理解 |
| 02:43:11,000 | 02:43:13,000 | 你了解嗎 |
| 02:43:13,000 | 02:43:15,000 | 報告委員這個理解 |
| 02:43:15,000 | 02:43:17,000 | 如果你們的理解並不是這樣子 |
| 02:43:17,000 | 02:43:19,000 | 我想他是脫膠原油 |
| 02:43:19,000 | 02:43:21,000 | 其實是各個 |
| 02:43:21,000 | 02:43:23,000 | 油品廠都可以把它當作 |
| 02:43:23,000 | 02:43:25,000 | 很重要的一個節點 |
| 02:43:25,000 | 02:43:27,000 | 未來也能夠去了解 |
| 02:43:27,000 | 02:43:29,000 | 該如何去把它練到符合標準的 |
| 02:43:29,000 | 02:43:31,000 | 這是我們的期待也是我們科學管理 |
| 02:43:31,000 | 02:43:33,000 | 上面支持 |
| 02:43:33,000 | 02:43:35,000 | 至於民眾說原料上面 |
| 02:43:35,000 | 02:43:37,000 | 15 14 |
| 02:43:37,000 | 02:43:39,000 | 要怎麼去處理這個是未來的確是 |
| 02:43:39,000 | 02:43:41,000 | 可以去做討論的部分 |
| 02:43:41,000 | 02:43:43,000 | 所以今天是在 |
| 02:43:43,000 | 02:43:45,000 | 等於是在檢討 |
| 02:43:45,000 | 02:43:47,000 | 安排這個會議 |
| 02:43:47,000 | 02:43:49,000 | 就是在檢討 |
| 02:43:49,000 | 02:43:51,000 | 所以你不要太堅持 |
| 02:43:51,000 | 02:43:53,000 | 原來的想法 |
| 02:43:53,000 | 02:43:55,000 | 或是你原來對這個 |
| 02:43:55,000 | 02:43:57,000 | 食品安全衛生 |
| 02:43:57,000 | 02:43:59,000 | 管理法的理解 |
| 02:43:59,000 | 02:44:01,000 | 你應該主動 |
| 02:44:01,000 | 02:44:03,000 | 就想如果當初 |
| 02:44:03,000 | 02:44:05,000 | 這個現行的法律 |
| 02:44:05,000 | 02:44:07,000 | 是這樣 |
| 02:44:07,000 | 02:44:09,000 | 經過這一次的事件 |
| 02:44:09,000 | 02:44:11,000 | 確實有檢討的 |
| 02:44:11,000 | 02:44:13,000 | 空間你一開始這樣講 |
| 02:44:13,000 | 02:44:15,000 | 我就不會那麼 |
| 02:44:15,000 | 02:44:17,000 | 謝謝委員的支持 |
| 02:44:17,000 | 02:44:19,000 | 委員應該也同意 |
| 02:44:19,000 | 02:44:21,000 | 同意剛才講現行的法律 |
| 02:44:21,000 | 02:44:23,000 | 應該目前是沒有這樣的規範 |
| 02:44:23,000 | 02:44:25,000 | 我不認為現行的法律不能處理 |
| 02:44:25,000 | 02:44:27,000 | 但是你認為是這樣 |
| 02:44:27,000 | 02:44:29,000 | 但是 |
| 02:44:29,000 | 02:44:31,000 | 你還是要去強調 |
| 02:44:31,000 | 02:44:33,000 | 需要去調整去修正 |
| 02:44:33,000 | 02:44:35,000 | 不夠明確 |
| 02:44:35,000 | 02:44:37,000 | 也許你說不夠明確 |
| 02:44:37,000 | 02:44:39,000 | 但是我認為很明確 |
| 02:44:39,000 | 02:44:41,000 | 所以變成各有各的一個 |
| 02:44:41,000 | 02:44:43,000 | 不同的一個意見 |
| 02:44:43,000 | 02:44:45,000 | 好不好 |
| 02:44:45,000 | 02:44:47,000 | 謝謝委員 |
| 02:44:47,000 | 02:44:49,000 | 好謝謝鄭天才委員 |
| 02:44:49,000 | 02:44:51,000 | 謝謝部長跟署長 |
| 02:44:51,000 | 02:44:53,000 | 好接下來的話我們請 |
| 02:44:53,000 | 02:44:55,000 | 呂玉琳委員質詢 |
| 02:45:07,000 | 02:45:09,000 | 謝謝主席 |
| 02:45:09,000 | 02:45:11,000 | 我們請經濟部的龔部長 |
| 02:45:11,000 | 02:45:13,000 | 食藥署的江署長 |
| 02:45:13,000 | 02:45:15,000 | 台唐的蔡副總 |
| 02:45:17,000 | 02:45:19,000 | 好請部長署長 |
| 02:45:19,000 | 02:45:21,000 | 張委長官 |
| 02:45:21,000 | 02:45:23,000 | 食品的安全 |
| 02:45:23,000 | 02:45:25,000 | 沒有太嚴格 |
| 02:45:25,000 | 02:45:27,000 | 是一定要嚴格 |
| 02:45:27,000 | 02:45:29,000 | 也絕對不能打折扣 |
| 02:45:29,000 | 02:45:31,000 | 這是人民 |
| 02:45:31,000 | 02:45:33,000 | 吃下去的東西他們的生命 |
| 02:45:33,000 | 02:45:35,000 | 的健康的安全性 |
| 02:45:35,000 | 02:45:37,000 | 所以我們要重演 |
| 02:45:37,000 | 02:45:39,000 | 審慎來制定我們的制度 |
| 02:45:39,000 | 02:45:41,000 | 跟法律跟規定 |
| 02:45:41,000 | 02:45:43,000 | 這才是我們今天 |
| 02:45:43,000 | 02:45:45,000 | 開這場會議 |
| 02:45:45,000 | 02:45:47,000 | 最重要的精神 |
| 02:45:49,000 | 02:45:51,000 | 食品安全是我們民眾 |
| 02:45:51,000 | 02:45:53,000 | 最基本也是最卑微的一個請求 |
| 02:45:53,000 | 02:45:55,000 | 大家在市場裡面 |
| 02:45:55,000 | 02:45:57,000 | 或者是在超市裡面 |
| 02:45:57,000 | 02:45:59,000 | 買回去的東西 |
| 02:45:59,000 | 02:46:01,000 | 我們要求的就是要給家人 |
| 02:46:01,000 | 02:46:03,000 | 吃得安心 |
| 02:46:03,000 | 02:46:05,000 | 所以中年這一次 |
| 02:46:05,000 | 02:46:07,000 | 爆發這個油料毒油的問題 |
| 02:46:07,000 | 02:46:09,000 | 扁平皮的或超標的問題 |
| 02:46:09,000 | 02:46:11,000 | 再次的重創國人 |
| 02:46:11,000 | 02:46:13,000 | 對食品安全的這個 |
| 02:46:13,000 | 02:46:15,000 | 信任 |
| 02:46:15,000 | 02:46:17,000 | 尤其是在中年作為原料 |
| 02:46:17,000 | 02:46:19,000 | 油的廠商 |
| 02:46:19,000 | 02:46:21,000 | 他把生產的油品 |
| 02:46:21,000 | 02:46:23,000 | 分別供應給下游廠商 |
| 02:46:23,000 | 02:46:25,000 | 包括泰山 |
| 02:46:25,000 | 02:46:27,000 | 福壽還有福茂等 |
| 02:46:27,000 | 02:46:29,000 | 知名的加工廠 |
| 02:46:29,000 | 02:46:31,000 | 在經由餐廳 |
| 02:46:31,000 | 02:46:33,000 | 到通路到我們的 |
| 02:46:33,000 | 02:46:35,000 | 零售販賣給 |
| 02:46:35,000 | 02:46:37,000 | 我們消費者 |
| 02:46:37,000 | 02:46:39,000 | 這個油品影響是越來越大 |
| 02:46:39,000 | 02:46:41,000 | 被擴大了 |
| 02:46:41,000 | 02:46:43,000 | 臺中政府部的食藥署 |
| 02:46:43,000 | 02:46:45,000 | 全面在清查中 |
| 02:46:45,000 | 02:46:47,000 | 中年四月份到六月份 |
| 02:46:47,000 | 02:46:49,000 | 生產的油品 |
| 02:46:49,000 | 02:46:51,000 | 最終得到確認的 |
| 02:46:51,000 | 02:46:53,000 | 就有七批的油品 |
| 02:46:53,000 | 02:46:55,000 | 有問題對不對 |
| 02:46:55,000 | 02:46:57,000 | 這七批的油品都不符合規定 |
| 02:46:57,000 | 02:46:59,000 | 所以食藥署也 |
| 02:46:59,000 | 02:47:01,000 | 趕快的要他們下架 |
| 02:47:01,000 | 02:47:03,000 | 回收原來大家以為 |
| 02:47:03,000 | 02:47:05,000 | 這個事情已經告一個段落了 |
| 02:47:05,000 | 02:47:07,000 | 但是在臺中地檢署 |
| 02:47:07,000 | 02:47:09,000 | 追究整起事件的 |
| 02:47:09,000 | 02:47:11,000 | 形式責任的時候 |
| 02:47:11,000 | 02:47:13,000 | 發現了原來 |
| 02:47:13,000 | 02:47:15,000 | 早在五月十五日的時候 |
| 02:47:15,000 | 02:47:17,000 | 台糖 |
| 02:47:17,000 | 02:47:19,000 | 在採購中年 |
| 02:47:19,000 | 02:47:21,000 | 的製造福茂 |
| 02:47:21,000 | 02:47:23,000 | 供應的油品原料 |
| 02:47:23,000 | 02:47:25,000 | 的時候就發生了 |
| 02:47:25,000 | 02:47:27,000 | 貶貧皮的超標的問題 |
| 02:47:27,000 | 02:47:29,000 | 而且這一批的原油貶貧皮 |
| 02:47:29,000 | 02:47:31,000 | 已經超標到14 |
| 02:47:31,000 | 02:47:33,000 | PPB |
| 02:47:33,000 | 02:47:35,000 | 我們的規定是 |
| 02:47:35,000 | 02:47:37,000 | 2PPB對不對食藥署 |
| 02:47:37,000 | 02:47:39,000 | 所以超標這麼多 |
| 02:47:39,000 | 02:47:41,000 | 當然台糖會拒收 |
| 02:47:41,000 | 02:47:43,000 | 館長是館 |
| 02:47:43,000 | 02:47:45,000 | 已經可以吃的油 |
| 02:47:45,000 | 02:47:47,000 | 中間製造大豆 |
| 02:47:47,000 | 02:47:49,000 | 製造壓出來的 |
| 02:47:49,000 | 02:47:51,000 | 我想個問題你有沒有聽懂 |
| 02:47:51,000 | 02:47:53,000 | 他有超標是不是 |
| 02:47:53,000 | 02:47:55,000 | 當然有14、18都有 |
| 02:47:55,000 | 02:47:57,000 | 但是我們訂的規定是不是 |
| 02:47:57,000 | 02:47:59,000 | 2PPB |
| 02:47:59,000 | 02:48:01,000 | 對不對 |
| 02:48:01,000 | 02:48:03,000 | 你回答我對不對 |
| 02:48:03,000 | 02:48:05,000 | 你前面的解釋我都聽過了 |
| 02:48:05,000 | 02:48:07,000 | 我是要跟你原意 |
| 02:48:07,000 | 02:48:09,000 | 一條一條列給你知道 |
| 02:48:09,000 | 02:48:11,000 | 你們的錯誤在哪裡 |
| 02:48:11,000 | 02:48:13,000 | 你們要改進修正的法在哪裡 |
| 02:48:13,000 | 02:48:15,000 | 所以我問你2PPB對不對 |
| 02:48:15,000 | 02:48:17,000 | 2PPB是我們食品 |
| 02:48:17,000 | 02:48:19,000 | 可以吃的油 |
| 02:48:19,000 | 02:48:21,000 | 脫膠原油是不能吃的 |
| 02:48:21,000 | 02:48:23,000 | 所以沒有依照我們食品 |
| 02:48:23,000 | 02:48:25,000 | 管理的法規面的 |
| 02:48:25,000 | 02:48:27,000 | 第七條 |
| 02:48:27,000 | 02:48:29,000 | 第五項的規定 |
| 02:48:29,000 | 02:48:31,000 | 向地方衛生主管機關 |
| 02:48:31,000 | 02:48:33,000 | 來通報 |
| 02:48:33,000 | 02:48:35,000 | 我想請問的就是說 |
| 02:48:35,000 | 02:48:37,000 | 在發生有疑慮的時候 |
| 02:48:37,000 | 02:48:39,000 | 公營單位 |
| 02:48:39,000 | 02:48:41,000 | 卡一卡你是公營 |
| 02:48:41,000 | 02:48:43,000 | 你不是民營 |
| 02:48:43,000 | 02:48:45,000 | 有這些問題的時候你就要橫向溝通 |
| 02:48:45,000 | 02:48:47,000 | 不管是我們食藥署 |
| 02:48:47,000 | 02:48:49,000 | 衛福部還是經濟部 |
| 02:48:49,000 | 02:48:51,000 | 你都要去了解 |
| 02:48:51,000 | 02:48:53,000 | 你都要告訴他們有這種問題 |
| 02:48:53,000 | 02:48:55,000 | 因為你剛剛提到的是說 |
| 02:48:55,000 | 02:48:57,000 | 如果說有扁平坪 |
| 02:48:57,000 | 02:48:59,000 | 超標的部分 |
| 02:48:59,000 | 02:49:01,000 | 在製造過程他可以把它拿掉 |
| 02:49:01,000 | 02:49:03,000 | 那這個製造過程 |
| 02:49:03,000 | 02:49:05,000 | 要被知道被告知 |
| 02:49:05,000 | 02:49:07,000 | 去執行去做 |
| 02:49:07,000 | 02:49:09,000 | 才能夠被拿掉 |
| 02:49:09,000 | 02:49:11,000 | 所以你沒有通報他沒有辦法在 |
| 02:49:11,000 | 02:49:13,000 | 製造過程中加了哪些程序 |
| 02:49:13,000 | 02:49:15,000 | 去把這個扁平坪的 |
| 02:49:15,000 | 02:49:17,000 | 成分降低再降低 |
| 02:49:17,000 | 02:49:19,000 | 到安全的2PPB |
| 02:49:19,000 | 02:49:21,000 | 對不對所以請問一下 |
| 02:49:21,000 | 02:49:23,000 | 台唐副總 |
| 02:49:23,000 | 02:49:25,000 | 台唐曾經發生過 |
| 02:49:25,000 | 02:49:27,000 | 有扁平坪的 |
| 02:49:27,000 | 02:49:29,000 | 超標的問題嗎 |
| 02:49:29,000 | 02:49:31,000 | 這麼久以來有發生過嗎 |
| 02:49:31,000 | 02:49:33,000 | 我們只能說我們所採購的 |
| 02:49:33,000 | 02:49:35,000 | 都沒有是不是 |
| 02:49:35,000 | 02:49:37,000 | 所採購的原料油 |
| 02:49:37,000 | 02:49:39,000 | 粗油 |
| 02:49:39,000 | 02:49:41,000 | 是按照我們的超標的規範 |
| 02:49:41,000 | 02:49:43,000 | 來做驗收 |
| 02:49:43,000 | 02:49:45,000 | 有沒有發生過 |
| 02:49:45,000 | 02:49:47,000 | 沒有發生過 |
| 02:49:47,000 | 02:49:49,000 | 這是首次第一次發生 |
| 02:49:49,000 | 02:49:51,000 | 對不對 是 |
| 02:49:51,000 | 02:49:53,000 | 這麼嚴重的事情首次第一次發生 |
| 02:49:53,000 | 02:49:55,000 | 那你為什麼 |
| 02:49:55,000 | 02:49:57,000 | 沒有盡你的義務責任 |
| 02:49:57,000 | 02:49:59,000 | 台唐 |
| 02:49:59,000 | 02:50:01,000 | 你台唐是公營 |
| 02:50:01,000 | 02:50:03,000 | 你應該通報給橫向 |
| 02:50:03,000 | 02:50:05,000 | 的所屬相關單位 |
| 02:50:05,000 | 02:50:07,000 | 大家知道要不要做個警惕 |
| 02:50:07,000 | 02:50:09,000 | 應該是這麼說就是說 |
| 02:50:09,000 | 02:50:11,000 | 其他的廠商如果說他 |
| 02:50:11,000 | 02:50:13,000 | 也要用粗油去精煉成 |
| 02:50:13,000 | 02:50:15,000 | 沙拉油的話他應該在 |
| 02:50:15,000 | 02:50:17,000 | 採購的時候他們要去驗啦 |
| 02:50:17,000 | 02:50:19,000 | 不是台南公司去幫他們驗或者是告 |
| 02:50:19,000 | 02:50:21,000 | 沒有叫你驗互相通報 |
| 02:50:21,000 | 02:50:23,000 | 大家注意有吃批貨 |
| 02:50:23,000 | 02:50:25,000 | 大家要注意 |
| 02:50:25,000 | 02:50:27,000 | 這個責任沒有嗎 |
| 02:50:27,000 | 02:50:29,000 | 我強調你是公營 |
| 02:50:29,000 | 02:50:31,000 | 所以這麼嚴重的情形之下 |
| 02:50:31,000 | 02:50:33,000 | 你沒有通報 |
| 02:50:33,000 | 02:50:35,000 | 就是讓我們的原料 |
| 02:50:35,000 | 02:50:37,000 | 有問題的不用通報變成產品 |
| 02:50:37,000 | 02:50:39,000 | 會變成產品 |
| 02:50:39,000 | 02:50:41,000 | 原料沒有通報 |
| 02:50:41,000 | 02:50:43,000 | 就會變成產品 |
| 02:50:43,000 | 02:50:45,000 | 所以報告他沒有所謂的原料 |
| 02:50:45,000 | 02:50:47,000 | 有問題啦 |
| 02:50:47,000 | 02:50:49,000 | 他只是說他不符合台南公司的採購 |
| 02:50:49,000 | 02:50:51,000 | 的規範我們說 |
| 02:50:51,000 | 02:50:53,000 | 沒有問題你為什麼退化 |
| 02:50:53,000 | 02:50:55,000 | 他不符合台南公司的驗收 |
| 02:50:55,000 | 02:50:57,000 | 對嘛就是有問題你才要退化 |
| 02:50:57,000 | 02:50:59,000 | 換貨啊 |
| 02:50:59,000 | 02:51:01,000 | 不符合規定啦你不要再 |
| 02:51:01,000 | 02:51:03,000 | 狡辯了 |
| 02:51:03,000 | 02:51:05,000 | 你不要再狡辯了 |
| 02:51:05,000 | 02:51:07,000 | 所以你為什麼我剛剛告訴你 |
| 02:51:07,000 | 02:51:09,000 | 你有通報的責任 |
| 02:51:09,000 | 02:51:11,000 | 是依據 |
| 02:51:11,000 | 02:51:13,000 | 我們經濟部 |
| 02:51:13,000 | 02:51:15,000 | 依據經濟部所屬 |
| 02:51:15,000 | 02:51:17,000 | 事業各類 |
| 02:51:17,000 | 02:51:19,000 | 災害及緊急事件 |
| 02:51:19,000 | 02:51:21,000 | 速報程序 |
| 02:51:21,000 | 02:51:23,000 | 第三條第二款 |
| 02:51:23,000 | 02:51:25,000 | 第五目的規定 |
| 02:51:25,000 | 02:51:27,000 | 重大事件 |
| 02:51:27,000 | 02:51:29,000 | 若是影響到事業的形象 |
| 02:51:29,000 | 02:51:31,000 | 或者是影響到 |
| 02:51:31,000 | 02:51:33,000 | 相關產業上 |
| 02:51:33,000 | 02:51:35,000 | 上下游事業供需 |
| 02:51:35,000 | 02:51:37,000 | 或者民生國營事業 |
| 02:51:37,000 | 02:51:39,000 | 就應該向 |
| 02:51:39,000 | 02:51:41,000 | 經濟部通報 |
| 02:51:41,000 | 02:51:43,000 | 有沒有這個法公部長 |
| 02:51:43,000 | 02:51:45,000 | 我這邊強調 |
| 02:51:45,000 | 02:51:47,000 | 國營事業應向 |
| 02:51:47,000 | 02:51:49,000 | 經濟部通報 |
| 02:51:49,000 | 02:51:51,000 | 有沒有 |
| 02:51:51,000 | 02:51:53,000 | 還有狡辯 |
| 02:51:53,000 | 02:51:55,000 | 這是指安法 |
| 02:51:55,000 | 02:51:57,000 | 跟招防法的規定 |
| 02:51:57,000 | 02:51:59,000 | 那是產業 |
| 02:51:59,000 | 02:52:01,000 | 事業還講是不是個事業 |
| 02:52:01,000 | 02:52:03,000 | 都是跟食品安全法 |
| 02:52:03,000 | 02:52:05,000 | 產品 |
| 02:52:05,000 | 02:52:07,000 | 事業 |
| 02:52:07,000 | 02:52:09,000 | 所以公部長 |
| 02:52:09,000 | 02:52:11,000 | 食品安全 |
| 02:52:11,000 | 02:52:13,000 | 你們一槍就突入食品安全 |
| 02:52:13,000 | 02:52:15,000 | 產業公司經營製造 |
| 02:52:15,000 | 02:52:17,000 | 產品出來 |
| 02:52:17,000 | 02:52:19,000 | 我們吃下去肚子的健康 |
| 02:52:19,000 | 02:52:21,000 | 這是一連罐的 |
| 02:52:21,000 | 02:52:23,000 | 一個產業鏈的 |
| 02:52:23,000 | 02:52:25,000 | 統統要關心 |
| 02:52:25,000 | 02:52:27,000 | 所以在2024年的時候 |
| 02:52:27,000 | 02:52:29,000 | 蘇丹紅 |
| 02:52:29,000 | 02:52:31,000 | 食安事件發生的時候 |
| 02:52:31,000 | 02:52:33,000 | 他們用蘇丹紅添加了 |
| 02:52:33,000 | 02:52:35,000 | 在辣椒粉裡面 |
| 02:52:35,000 | 02:52:37,000 | 辣椒粉的色澤看起來比較好看 |
| 02:52:37,000 | 02:52:39,000 | 在衛福部 |
| 02:52:39,000 | 02:52:41,000 | 食藥署 |
| 02:52:41,000 | 02:52:43,000 | 你們在2024年的3月11號 |
| 02:52:43,000 | 02:52:45,000 | 的新聞 |
| 02:52:45,000 | 02:52:47,000 | 當中特別強調 |
| 02:52:47,000 | 02:52:49,000 | 食品業者 |
| 02:52:49,000 | 02:52:51,000 | 如果發現原料 |
| 02:52:51,000 | 02:52:53,000 | 和產品 |
| 02:52:53,000 | 02:52:55,000 | 有危害 |
| 02:52:55,000 | 02:52:57,000 | 衛生安全之虞 |
| 02:52:57,000 | 02:52:59,000 | 應主動停止製造 |
| 02:52:59,000 | 02:53:01,000 | 加工販賣及 |
| 02:53:01,000 | 02:53:03,000 | 辦理回收 |
| 02:53:03,000 | 02:53:05,000 | 並通報直轄市縣市的主管 |
| 02:53:05,000 | 02:53:07,000 | 機關白紙黑字 |
| 02:53:07,000 | 02:53:09,000 | 寫在這邊原料 |
| 02:53:09,000 | 02:53:11,000 | 有問題你們就必須 |
| 02:53:11,000 | 02:53:13,000 | 要將所有的主管 |
| 02:53:13,000 | 02:53:15,000 | 機關所有的範圍 |
| 02:53:15,000 | 02:53:17,000 | 統統都要通報 |
| 02:53:17,000 | 02:53:19,000 | 這個你們的去年 |
| 02:53:19,000 | 02:53:21,000 | 2024年3月11號 |
| 02:53:21,000 | 02:53:23,000 | 你們新聞稿白紙黑字 |
| 02:53:23,000 | 02:53:25,000 | 就寫出來了是不是 |
| 02:53:25,000 | 02:53:27,000 | 謝謝委員的指導因為 |
| 02:53:27,000 | 02:53:29,000 | 蘇丹紅跟扁平坯 |
| 02:53:29,000 | 02:53:31,000 | 都有化學結構 |
| 02:53:31,000 | 02:53:33,000 | 一個是在不得 |
| 02:53:33,000 | 02:53:35,000 | 添加的一個是在製程裡面 |
| 02:53:35,000 | 02:53:37,000 | 本來就會有的 |
| 02:53:37,000 | 02:53:39,000 | 這兩個是不一樣的 |
| 02:53:39,000 | 02:53:41,000 | 不一樣的署長 |
| 02:53:41,000 | 02:53:43,000 | 一個是添加的 |
| 02:53:43,000 | 02:53:45,000 | 一個製造過程中可以拿掉 |
| 02:53:45,000 | 02:53:47,000 | 所以我說你及早通報 |
| 02:53:47,000 | 02:53:49,000 | 如果說中年4月份發生 |
| 02:53:49,000 | 02:53:51,000 | 到6月30號你及早通報 |
| 02:53:51,000 | 02:53:53,000 | 我們及早把中西 |
| 02:53:53,000 | 02:53:55,000 | 組合在原料 |
| 02:53:55,000 | 02:53:57,000 | 出產的地方 |
| 02:53:57,000 | 02:53:59,000 | 不要跑到下游去的話 |
| 02:53:59,000 | 02:54:01,000 | 我們人民是不會遲到了 |
| 02:54:01,000 | 02:54:03,000 | 你通報一下會怎麼樣呢 |
| 02:54:03,000 | 02:54:05,000 | 所以這些我這樣 |
| 02:54:05,000 | 02:54:07,000 | 全部這樣講下來 |
| 02:54:07,000 | 02:54:09,000 | 就是要讓你們了解 |
| 02:54:09,000 | 02:54:11,000 | 沒有法不是沒有規定 |
| 02:54:11,000 | 02:54:13,000 | 不是沒有制度 |
| 02:54:13,000 | 02:54:15,000 | 都有讓你們執行 |
| 02:54:15,000 | 02:54:17,000 | 你們要不要橫向溝通 |
| 02:54:17,000 | 02:54:19,000 | 互相通報尤其是公營 |
| 02:54:19,000 | 02:54:21,000 | 法規面經濟部都公 |
| 02:54:21,000 | 02:54:23,000 | 國營事業就要有通報的責任 |
| 02:54:23,000 | 02:54:25,000 | 安全 |
| 02:54:25,000 | 02:54:27,000 | 所以你現在我們 |
| 02:54:27,000 | 02:54:29,000 | 行政院7月份也送出了 |
| 02:54:29,000 | 02:54:31,000 | 這個版本出來了 |
| 02:54:31,000 | 02:54:33,000 | 就針對我們食安的漏洞 |
| 02:54:33,000 | 02:54:35,000 | 要把補好的修法 |
| 02:54:35,000 | 02:54:37,000 | 把補好的漏洞已經送進來了 |
| 02:54:37,000 | 02:54:39,000 | 所以我們希望大家 |
| 02:54:39,000 | 02:54:41,000 | 要好好的把食安 |
| 02:54:41,000 | 02:54:43,000 | 健康這個問題 |
| 02:54:43,000 | 02:54:45,000 | 好好的來討論看看怎麼樣的制度 |
| 02:54:45,000 | 02:54:47,000 | 能夠保障我們國人的 |
| 02:54:47,000 | 02:54:49,000 | 健康這才是真正的 |
| 02:54:49,000 | 02:54:51,000 | 不要再推責任 |
| 02:54:51,000 | 02:54:53,000 | 互相一定要把這個責任 |
| 02:54:53,000 | 02:54:55,000 | 整個建構好來尤其是公部長 |
| 02:54:55,000 | 02:54:57,000 | 經濟部包括是產業 |
| 02:54:57,000 | 02:54:59,000 | 不要一直推給食藥署 |
| 02:54:59,000 | 02:55:01,000 | 大家橫向溝通 |
| 02:55:01,000 | 02:55:03,000 | 把這事情做好來 |
| 02:55:03,000 | 02:55:05,000 | 把這個制度健全起來好不好 |
| 02:55:05,000 | 02:55:07,000 | 謝謝 |
| 02:55:35,000 | 02:55:37,000 | 請經濟部 |
| 02:55:37,000 | 02:55:39,000 | 主席還有各位委員 |
| 02:55:39,000 | 02:55:41,000 | 各位政府官員大家好 |
| 02:55:41,000 | 02:55:43,000 | 那我今天想要請教公部長 |
| 02:55:43,000 | 02:55:45,000 | 到底誰是通報義務人 |
| 02:55:45,000 | 02:55:47,000 | 因為台糖好像認為他不是 |
| 02:55:47,000 | 02:55:49,000 | 經濟部認為他也不是 |
| 02:55:49,000 | 02:55:51,000 | 那我想台糖這件事 |
| 02:55:51,000 | 02:55:53,000 | 我想我們聽的都是 |
| 02:55:53,000 | 02:55:55,000 | 非常的人心惶惶 |
| 02:55:55,000 | 02:55:57,000 | 因為毒油的 |
| 02:55:57,000 | 02:55:59,000 | 事件完全沒看到終點 |
| 02:55:59,000 | 02:56:01,000 | 又爆發一次的一個危機 |
| 02:56:01,000 | 02:56:03,000 | 事件那其實如果不是台中 |
| 02:56:03,000 | 02:56:05,000 | 地院吹哨可能目前全民都 |
| 02:56:05,000 | 02:56:07,000 | 蒙在這個鼓裡 |
| 02:56:07,000 | 02:56:09,000 | 那我們都知道南巧 |
| 02:56:09,000 | 02:56:11,000 | 未通報已經被開罰了但是 |
| 02:56:11,000 | 02:56:13,000 | 台糖沒有通報好像被開脫 |
| 02:56:13,000 | 02:56:15,000 | 那在人民的眼中看起來這是一個 |
| 02:56:15,000 | 02:56:17,000 | 雙標那特別是 |
| 02:56:17,000 | 02:56:19,000 | 其實台糖說沒有通報義務這件 |
| 02:56:19,000 | 02:56:21,000 | 事其實已經被高檢署的 |
| 02:56:21,000 | 02:56:23,000 | 主任所打臉了那經濟 |
| 02:56:23,000 | 02:56:25,000 | 部長應該知道被打臉 |
| 02:56:25,000 | 02:56:27,000 | 那現在重點來了你們 |
| 02:56:27,000 | 02:56:29,000 | 開脫的理由就是說因為台糖 |
| 02:56:29,000 | 02:56:31,000 | 所購買的出教員 |
| 02:56:31,000 | 02:56:33,000 | 他只是原料他不是食品 |
| 02:56:33,000 | 02:56:35,000 | 好來我現在要請總部長來看一下 |
| 02:56:35,000 | 02:56:37,000 | 食品食安法的第三條 |
| 02:56:37,000 | 02:56:39,000 | 食品是指產品跟原料 |
| 02:56:39,000 | 02:56:41,000 | 為什麼 |
| 02:56:41,000 | 02:56:43,000 | 人家法條寫的一清二楚原料 |
| 02:56:43,000 | 02:56:45,000 | 是食品但是在你們的眼中 |
| 02:56:45,000 | 02:56:47,000 | 卻不是食品可不可以給我們開示 |
| 02:56:47,000 | 02:56:49,000 | 一下 |
| 02:56:49,000 | 02:56:51,000 | 這個法律的主管機關 |
| 02:56:51,000 | 02:56:53,000 | 是衛福部 |
| 02:56:53,000 | 02:56:55,000 | 不是啊衛福部的 |
| 02:56:55,000 | 02:56:57,000 | 解釋來因為我真的時間非常 |
| 02:56:57,000 | 02:56:59,000 | 有限二有沒有看到這個 |
| 02:56:59,000 | 02:57:01,000 | 衛福部的解釋 |
| 02:57:01,000 | 02:57:03,000 | 你依照衛福部的解釋你以他的 |
| 02:57:03,000 | 02:57:05,000 | 主管機關你們的理由你不能 |
| 02:57:05,000 | 02:57:07,000 | 盲目的跟從啊這是 |
| 02:57:07,000 | 02:57:09,000 | 沒有啦你就推給他 |
| 02:57:09,000 | 02:57:11,000 | 說是他的甄定來台糖 |
| 02:57:11,000 | 02:57:13,000 | 廠購的品項那今天意思就是你 |
| 02:57:13,000 | 02:57:15,000 | 站在這邊沒功能嘛那為什麼要排 |
| 02:57:15,000 | 02:57:17,000 | 今天的專報你們的理由 |
| 02:57:17,000 | 02:57:19,000 | 是台糖採購的品項是出教 |
| 02:57:19,000 | 02:57:21,000 | 員由他是原料這是你們白紙黑字 |
| 02:57:21,000 | 02:57:23,000 | 寫出來的理由啦你們認為他 |
| 02:57:23,000 | 02:57:25,000 | 不是食品所以不用通報 |
| 02:57:25,000 | 02:57:27,000 | 白紙黑字看得懂嗎這不是很高 |
| 02:57:27,000 | 02:57:29,000 | 法律的解釋嘛食品是指產品 |
| 02:57:29,000 | 02:57:31,000 | 跟原料你說原料不是食品 |
| 02:57:31,000 | 02:57:33,000 | 所以不用通報啊我現在問 |
| 02:57:33,000 | 02:57:35,000 | 你原料是不是食品嗎我就問這一題 |
| 02:57:35,000 | 02:57:37,000 | 就好了嘛這個由主管機關 |
| 02:57:37,000 | 02:57:39,000 | 來解釋你沒有辦法解釋 |
| 02:57:39,000 | 02:57:41,000 | 你都理由寫出來了你還不買帳 |
| 02:57:41,000 | 02:57:43,000 | 從主管機關的解釋 |
| 02:57:43,000 | 02:57:45,000 | 從主管機關的解釋你連 |
| 02:57:45,000 | 02:57:47,000 | 食品原料是不是食品你都沒 |
| 02:57:47,000 | 02:57:49,000 | 辦法解釋他是主管機關 |
| 02:57:49,000 | 02:57:51,000 | 你還解出理由說因為他不是 |
| 02:57:51,000 | 02:57:53,000 | 食品你就講他不是食品就好啊 |
| 02:57:53,000 | 02:57:55,000 | 你現在的回答更模糊說 |
| 02:57:55,000 | 02:57:57,000 | 這個你完全不知道答案 |
| 02:57:57,000 | 02:57:59,000 | 你要請主管機關來解釋我就問 |
| 02:57:59,000 | 02:58:01,000 | 原料是不是食品嗎 |
| 02:58:01,000 | 02:58:03,000 | 理由是你們寫的嗎 |
| 02:58:03,000 | 02:58:05,000 | 那你自己 |
| 02:58:05,000 | 02:58:07,000 | 不能夠解釋你為什麼要寫出 |
| 02:58:07,000 | 02:58:09,000 | 這樣的理由你說台糖所採購的品 |
| 02:58:09,000 | 02:58:11,000 | 香醋要原料不是食品 |
| 02:58:11,000 | 02:58:13,000 | 所以現在你需要請他上來嗎 |
| 02:58:13,000 | 02:58:15,000 | 那你要請他上來嗎 |
| 02:58:15,000 | 02:58:17,000 | 你現在要告訴我們國人 |
| 02:58:17,000 | 02:58:19,000 | 你完全沒有功能嗎連這麼簡單的問題 |
| 02:58:19,000 | 02:58:21,000 | 你都要回撥 |
| 02:58:21,000 | 02:58:23,000 | 衛福部什麼東西 |
| 02:58:23,000 | 02:58:25,000 | 我告訴你我質詢你到第一天 |
| 02:58:25,000 | 02:58:27,000 | 你就依法行政一直到現在 |
| 02:58:27,000 | 02:58:29,000 | 行政行不出一個讓人民 |
| 02:58:29,000 | 02:58:31,000 | 幸福的結果出來所以原料 |
| 02:58:31,000 | 02:58:33,000 | 是不是食品你現在推給 |
| 02:58:33,000 | 02:58:35,000 | 衛福部是嗎你現在推給衛福部你沒 |
| 02:58:35,000 | 02:58:37,000 | 辦法回答是嗎食安法的主管機關 |
| 02:58:37,000 | 02:58:39,000 | 啊這裡有是不是你們寫的嗎 |
| 02:58:39,000 | 02:58:41,000 | 說台糖所採購的品香醋出焦原料 |
| 02:58:41,000 | 02:58:43,000 | 所以不是 |
| 02:58:43,000 | 02:58:45,000 | 解釋法條應該由主管機關來解釋 |
| 02:58:45,000 | 02:58:47,000 | 解釋法條應該由主管機關 |
| 02:58:47,000 | 02:58:49,000 | 來解釋好那我們現在請衛福部 |
| 02:58:49,000 | 02:58:51,000 | 那個啊江志剛署長上來 |
| 02:58:51,000 | 02:58:53,000 | 他現在就是要聽你的答案 |
| 02:58:53,000 | 02:58:55,000 | 才要回答啦那你就告訴他 |
| 02:58:55,000 | 02:58:57,000 | 答案原料是不是食品 |
| 02:58:57,000 | 02:58:59,000 | 他就是告訴我們國人他 |
| 02:58:59,000 | 02:59:01,000 | 站在質詢台上完全沒有功能 |
| 02:59:01,000 | 02:59:03,000 | 請問你是他的長官嗎 |
| 02:59:03,000 | 02:59:05,000 | 他是要仰賴於你他才 |
| 02:59:05,000 | 02:59:07,000 | 有辦法出任何回答嗎 |
| 02:59:07,000 | 02:59:09,000 | 來請問一下原料是不是食品 |
| 02:59:09,000 | 02:59:11,000 | 報告委員那 |
| 02:59:11,000 | 02:59:13,000 | 針對委員的提問的部分 |
| 02:59:13,000 | 02:59:15,000 | 其實之前食務長 |
| 02:59:15,000 | 02:59:17,000 | 你就簡答就好了因為我真的時間 |
| 02:59:17,000 | 02:59:19,000 | 非常有限你就告訴我簡答 |
| 02:59:19,000 | 02:59:21,000 | 答題原料是食品 |
| 02:59:21,000 | 02:59:23,000 | 這個標的是脫焦原油 |
| 02:59:23,000 | 02:59:25,000 | 你沒有辦法回答下去 |
| 02:59:25,000 | 02:59:27,000 | 下去我要經濟部長 |
| 02:59:27,000 | 02:59:29,000 | 繼續回答Q2 |
| 02:59:29,000 | 02:59:31,000 | 誰是通報醫務人你沒有辦法 |
| 02:59:31,000 | 02:59:33,000 | 你長篇大論你完全浪費我的時間你下去 |
| 02:59:33,000 | 02:59:35,000 | 每次都這樣才浪費我的時間 |
| 02:59:35,000 | 02:59:37,000 | 來誰是通報醫務人 |
| 02:59:37,000 | 02:59:39,000 | 台糖不是通報醫務人 |
| 02:59:39,000 | 02:59:41,000 | 那誰是通報醫務人 |
| 02:59:41,000 | 02:59:43,000 | 那誰是通報醫務人 |
| 02:59:43,000 | 02:59:45,000 | 這個我沒有辦法跟你說明 |
| 02:59:45,000 | 02:59:47,000 | 你連這個都沒有辦法回答你站在這邊到底是要幹嘛 |
| 02:59:47,000 | 02:59:49,000 | 我只知道中聯是一個不良企業 |
| 02:59:49,000 | 02:59:51,000 | 不良企業所以是誰要通報 |
| 02:59:51,000 | 02:59:53,000 | 不是台華 |
| 02:59:53,000 | 02:59:55,000 | 要通報請問是誰要通報 |
| 02:59:55,000 | 02:59:57,000 | 台糖沒有通報醫務經濟部也沒有通報醫務 |
| 02:59:57,000 | 02:59:59,000 | 那請問誰是通報醫務人 |
| 02:59:59,000 | 03:00:01,000 | 我不知道你不知道 |
| 03:00:01,000 | 03:00:03,000 | 你完全不知道誰是通報醫務人 |
| 03:00:03,000 | 03:00:05,000 | 你都沒有把答案準備好你今天就站在這邊 |
| 03:00:05,000 | 03:00:07,000 | 拜託我們台灣的經濟部長 |
| 03:00:07,000 | 03:00:09,000 | 居然是一問三不知 |
| 03:00:09,000 | 03:00:11,000 | 真的讓人家看不下去 |
| 03:00:11,000 | 03:00:13,000 | 你不知道是不是沒關係我接著問 |
| 03:00:13,000 | 03:00:15,000 | 反正我問每一題 |
| 03:00:15,000 | 03:00:17,000 | 每一題你都不知道 |
| 03:00:17,000 | 03:00:19,000 | 人家就會覺得你到底是不是一個 |
| 03:00:19,000 | 03:00:21,000 | 市格的經濟部長 |
| 03:00:21,000 | 03:00:23,000 | 經濟部說爛菜沒有通報的醫務 |
| 03:00:23,000 | 03:00:25,000 | 部長請問一下你吃到毒油 |
| 03:00:25,000 | 03:00:27,000 | 我那一題已經過去了不想問你 |
| 03:00:27,000 | 03:00:29,000 | 因為你完全不知道一問三不知 |
| 03:00:29,000 | 03:00:31,000 | 部長請問吃到毒油也沒關係 |
| 03:00:31,000 | 03:00:33,000 | 你們說爛菜不用通報 |
| 03:00:33,000 | 03:00:35,000 | 那請問要吃到毒油你真的沒有關係嗎 |
| 03:00:35,000 | 03:00:37,000 | 不用通報受害不是 |
| 03:00:37,000 | 03:00:39,000 | 只有全民你自己也會受害 |
| 03:00:39,000 | 03:00:41,000 | 請問一下 |
| 03:00:41,000 | 03:00:43,000 | 你吃到毒油也沒關係嗎 |
| 03:00:43,000 | 03:00:45,000 | 你吃到毒油也沒關係 |
| 03:00:45,000 | 03:00:47,000 | 你不會這一題也要江志剛署長上來 |
| 03:00:47,000 | 03:00:49,000 | 幫你問吧 |
| 03:00:49,000 | 03:00:51,000 | 台糖檢驗了311的油潮的油 |
| 03:00:51,000 | 03:00:53,000 | 現在還封存在那邊 |
| 03:00:53,000 | 03:00:55,000 | 他沒有交易流入出來 |
| 03:00:55,000 | 03:00:57,000 | 你如果今天不吹哨 |
| 03:00:57,000 | 03:00:59,000 | 毒油就會漫步全台 |
| 03:00:59,000 | 03:01:01,000 | 就像現在30個P號 |
| 03:01:01,000 | 03:01:03,000 | 流出去連衛福部部長 |
| 03:01:03,000 | 03:01:05,000 | 你所尊敬的衛福部長 |
| 03:01:05,000 | 03:01:07,000 | 能夠幫你提供答案的衛福部長 |
| 03:01:07,000 | 03:01:09,000 | 都說這些油已經不止流向了 |
| 03:01:09,000 | 03:01:11,000 | 已經吃到你的肚子去了 |
| 03:01:11,000 | 03:01:13,000 | 我們要針對的是不良企業中聯 |
| 03:01:13,000 | 03:01:15,000 | 我覺得比起不良企業 |
| 03:01:15,000 | 03:01:17,000 | 我們的不良部長 |
| 03:01:17,000 | 03:01:19,000 | 可能比台灣養生2300萬人 |
| 03:01:19,000 | 03:01:21,000 | 更加的受害 |
| 03:01:21,000 | 03:01:23,000 | 請問一下經濟部何時知道台糖的事情 |
| 03:01:23,000 | 03:01:25,000 | 經濟部何時知道台糖的事情 |
| 03:01:25,000 | 03:01:27,000 | 哪一件事情 |
| 03:01:27,000 | 03:01:29,000 | 就是他所去驗收到的油 |
| 03:01:29,000 | 03:01:31,000 | 是這個14.6 |
| 03:01:31,000 | 03:01:33,000 | 什麼時候知道的 |
| 03:01:33,000 | 03:01:35,000 | 7月份以後 |
| 03:01:35,000 | 03:01:37,000 | 7月份以後 |
| 03:01:37,000 | 03:01:39,000 | 所以現在是 |
| 03:01:39,000 | 03:01:41,000 | 7月份以後 |
| 03:01:41,000 | 03:01:43,000 | 7月份以後講的就是8月1號 |
| 03:01:43,000 | 03:01:45,000 | 8月1號之後才知道的 |
| 03:01:45,000 | 03:01:47,000 | 7月當中 |
| 03:01:47,000 | 03:01:49,000 | 7月當中知道的 |
| 03:01:49,000 | 03:01:51,000 | 什麼時候 |
| 03:01:51,000 | 03:01:53,000 | 7月份當中 |
| 03:01:53,000 | 03:01:55,000 | 當中是哪一天 |
| 03:01:55,000 | 03:01:57,000 | 你早上還回答我嗎 |
| 03:01:57,000 | 03:01:59,000 | 7月28號是我們 |
| 03:01:59,000 | 03:02:01,000 | 國營司跟這個 |
| 03:02:01,000 | 03:02:03,000 | 我們的政風有去查 |
| 03:02:03,000 | 03:02:05,000 | 問的結果 |
| 03:02:05,000 | 03:02:07,000 | 7月到底是什麼時候 |
| 03:02:07,000 | 03:02:09,000 | 講不出來時間 |
| 03:02:09,000 | 03:02:11,000 | 你什麼時候知道台糖這件事 |
| 03:02:11,000 | 03:02:13,000 | 7月28號 |
| 03:02:13,000 | 03:02:15,000 | 次長知道是什麼時候 |
| 03:02:15,000 | 03:02:17,000 | 次長今天有來嗎 |
| 03:02:17,000 | 03:02:19,000 | 你不知道次長 |
| 03:02:19,000 | 03:02:21,000 | 你覺得次長有可能比你早知道嗎 |
| 03:02:21,000 | 03:02:23,000 | 因為這中間 |
| 03:02:23,000 | 03:02:25,000 | 我去日本一趟 |
| 03:02:25,000 | 03:02:27,000 | 你覺得次長 |
| 03:02:27,000 | 03:02:29,000 | 有可能比你早知道嗎 |
| 03:02:29,000 | 03:02:31,000 | 你有可能被次長加空 |
| 03:02:31,000 | 03:02:33,000 | 次長比較早知道 |
| 03:02:33,000 | 03:02:35,000 | 你本人不知道嗎 |
| 03:02:35,000 | 03:02:37,000 | 所以你就是7月28號知道的嗎 |
| 03:02:37,000 | 03:02:39,000 | 你7月28號 |
| 03:02:39,000 | 03:02:41,000 | 那你有沒有要報告行政院長 |
| 03:02:41,000 | 03:02:43,000 | 你都要報告行政院長 |
| 03:02:43,000 | 03:02:45,000 | 行政院長是比你更厲害的高官 |
| 03:02:45,000 | 03:02:47,000 | 他能夠把整件事情做控制 |
| 03:02:47,000 | 03:02:49,000 | 你現在巡台上完全都沒有辦法 |
| 03:02:49,000 | 03:02:51,000 | 整件事情合法合規我為什麼要報告 |
| 03:02:51,000 | 03:02:53,000 | 他不是你的長官 |
| 03:02:53,000 | 03:02:55,000 | 什麼東西合法 |
| 03:02:55,000 | 03:02:57,000 | 超過 |
| 03:02:57,000 | 03:02:59,000 | 這個叫做合法合規嗎 |
| 03:02:59,000 | 03:03:01,000 | 這個產品來我們來看一下 |
| 03:03:01,000 | 03:03:03,000 | 根據食安法第七條第五項 |
| 03:03:03,000 | 03:03:05,000 | 食品業者發現產品有 |
| 03:03:05,000 | 03:03:07,000 | 危害衛生安全之虞 |
| 03:03:07,000 | 03:03:09,000 | 已經超過14.6 |
| 03:03:09,000 | 03:03:11,000 | 還合法合規 |
| 03:03:11,000 | 03:03:13,000 | 你不知道14.6所代表的意義嗎 |
| 03:03:13,000 | 03:03:15,000 | 這個還叫做合法合規嗎 |
| 03:03:15,000 | 03:03:17,000 | 這個叫合法合規嗎 |
| 03:03:17,000 | 03:03:19,000 | 這個對衛生安全沒有 |
| 03:03:19,000 | 03:03:21,000 | 我們跟地方政府已經解釋過了 |
| 03:03:21,000 | 03:03:23,000 | 解釋過什麼 |
| 03:03:23,000 | 03:03:25,000 | 台南公司不是通報義務人 |
| 03:03:25,000 | 03:03:27,000 | 台南公司不是通報義務人 |
| 03:03:27,000 | 03:03:29,000 | 他是食品為什麼他不是通報義務人 |
| 03:03:29,000 | 03:03:31,000 | 法庭是跟你們這樣無論解釋的嗎 |
| 03:03:31,000 | 03:03:33,000 | 你們都在質詢台 |
| 03:03:33,000 | 03:03:35,000 | 站在台中的理由嗎 |
| 03:03:35,000 | 03:03:37,000 | 好啦你就告訴我啦 |
| 03:03:37,000 | 03:03:39,000 | 你是7月28號知道的 |
| 03:03:39,000 | 03:03:41,000 | 那你7月28號知道你有沒有告訴行政院長 |
| 03:03:41,000 | 03:03:43,000 | 行政院長是比你更厲害的高官 |
| 03:03:43,000 | 03:03:45,000 | 他可以出來對這件事情 |
| 03:03:45,000 | 03:03:47,000 | 做一個評審 |
| 03:03:47,000 | 03:03:49,000 | 那你現在你就是比行政院長更厲害 |
| 03:03:49,000 | 03:03:51,000 | 就是了事情可以不用 |
| 03:03:51,000 | 03:03:53,000 | 通報行政院長你沒有讓你的 |
| 03:03:53,000 | 03:03:55,000 | 長官來做一個評審他怎麼樣 |
| 03:03:55,000 | 03:03:57,000 | 去食安報告來跟國人來做一個詳細 |
| 03:03:57,000 | 03:03:59,000 | 的說明反正你現在是 |
| 03:03:59,000 | 03:04:01,000 | 你現在是在不可以忽略你站的質詢台的位置 |
| 03:04:01,000 | 03:04:03,000 | 也忽略到你的長官時從良的 |
| 03:04:03,000 | 03:04:05,000 | 這個存在嗎是這樣的意思嗎 |
| 03:04:05,000 | 03:04:07,000 | 是這樣的意思嗎 |
| 03:04:07,000 | 03:04:09,000 | 什麼意思 |
| 03:04:09,000 | 03:04:11,000 | 意思就是你沒有通報你的長官 |
| 03:04:11,000 | 03:04:13,000 | 你沒有讓他對事情做一個評審 |
| 03:04:13,000 | 03:04:15,000 | 他如果要下台也要有 |
| 03:04:15,000 | 03:04:17,000 | 心理準備你都沒有讓人家知道 |
| 03:04:17,000 | 03:04:19,000 | 原來我們台唐的 |
| 03:04:19,000 | 03:04:21,000 | 這個毒油事件的最新劇情 |
| 03:04:21,000 | 03:04:23,000 | 他要做危害的控管 |
| 03:04:23,000 | 03:04:25,000 | 你不讓你的長官知道嗎 |
| 03:04:25,000 | 03:04:27,000 | 你不讓他知道嗎 |
| 03:04:27,000 | 03:04:29,000 | 合法合規的事情 |
| 03:04:29,000 | 03:04:31,000 | 今天八月九號你都沒有告訴他嗎 |
| 03:04:31,000 | 03:04:33,000 | 合法合規的事情 |
| 03:04:33,000 | 03:04:35,000 | 哪裡你超標已經十四點六 |
| 03:04:35,000 | 03:04:37,000 | 還合法合規完全是睜眼說瞎話 |
| 03:04:37,000 | 03:04:39,000 | 好啦請問今天次長 |
| 03:04:39,000 | 03:04:41,000 | 有沒有來LINE次長有沒有來 |
| 03:04:41,000 | 03:04:43,000 | 次長有來嗎 |
| 03:04:43,000 | 03:04:45,000 | 不需要來 |
| 03:04:45,000 | 03:04:47,000 | 那我先告訴你你可能已經完全 |
| 03:04:47,000 | 03:04:49,000 | 被掐空了因為你的次長 |
| 03:04:49,000 | 03:04:51,000 | 上個禮拜八月五號質詢我的時候 |
| 03:04:51,000 | 03:04:53,000 | 說他七月九號就知道台唐 |
| 03:04:53,000 | 03:04:55,000 | 事件了結果你到七月二十八號 |
| 03:04:55,000 | 03:04:57,000 | 才知道我真的覺得你完全 |
| 03:04:57,000 | 03:04:59,000 | 已經被架空了完全沒有功能 |
| 03:04:59,000 | 03:05:01,000 | 這個是一個客觀上的 |
| 03:05:01,000 | 03:05:03,000 | 一個矩陣 |
| 03:05:03,000 | 03:05:05,000 | 而不是我自己的主觀感受 |
| 03:05:05,000 | 03:05:07,000 | 你已經被經濟部長 |
| 03:05:07,000 | 03:05:09,000 | 矩陣你已經完全被 |
| 03:05:09,000 | 03:05:11,000 | 架空了人家七月九號就知道 |
| 03:05:11,000 | 03:05:13,000 | 你七月二十八號才知道 |
| 03:05:13,000 | 03:05:15,000 | 好我告訴你反正對人民的 |
| 03:05:15,000 | 03:05:17,000 | 怒吼你也完全 |
| 03:05:17,000 | 03:05:19,000 | 絲毫不為所動那我們就等 |
| 03:05:19,000 | 03:05:21,000 | 下一次的劇情 |
| 03:05:21,000 | 03:05:23,000 | 就是可能人民要暴動了 |
| 03:05:23,000 | 03:05:25,000 | 我最後講一句話對於這種 |
| 03:05:25,000 | 03:05:27,000 | 站在質詢台上一問三不知的 |
| 03:05:27,000 | 03:05:29,000 | 部長我覺得是我們 |
| 03:05:29,000 | 03:05:31,000 | 台灣之悲哀 |
| 03:05:35,000 | 03:05:37,000 | 好謝謝秋慧 |
| 03:05:37,000 | 03:05:39,000 | 陸委員接下來 |
| 03:05:39,000 | 03:05:41,000 | 賴瑞榮賴瑞榮 |
| 03:05:41,000 | 03:05:43,000 | 賴瑞榮委員 |
| 03:05:43,000 | 03:05:45,000 | 接下來我們請葉原子委員質詢 |
| 03:05:53,000 | 03:05:55,000 | 主席好 |
| 03:05:55,000 | 03:05:57,000 | 我們先請江志剛主長 |
| 03:05:57,000 | 03:05:59,000 | 謝謝 |
| 03:06:05,000 | 03:06:07,000 | 好委員好蘇大華 |
| 03:06:07,000 | 03:06:09,000 | 先跟你確定一件事喔 |
| 03:06:09,000 | 03:06:11,000 | 八月七號那時候就傳出來您 |
| 03:06:11,000 | 03:06:13,000 | 跟石崇良部長已經要請辭 |
| 03:06:13,000 | 03:06:15,000 | 然後行政院的 |
| 03:06:15,000 | 03:06:17,000 | 發言人說 |
| 03:06:17,000 | 03:06:19,000 | 沒有辦法代為發言 |
| 03:06:19,000 | 03:06:21,000 | 所以大家都解讀包括民進黨立委 |
| 03:06:21,000 | 03:06:23,000 | 都解讀說你們已經請辭了 |
| 03:06:23,000 | 03:06:25,000 | 然後昨天呢這個 |
| 03:06:25,000 | 03:06:27,000 | 議題持續發酵 |
| 03:06:27,000 | 03:06:29,000 | 衛福部呢回答也很曖昧說 |
| 03:06:29,000 | 03:06:31,000 | 不予回應不是說沒有 |
| 03:06:31,000 | 03:06:33,000 | 是說不予回應那行政院 |
| 03:06:33,000 | 03:06:35,000 | 的回覆是說沒有討論 |
| 03:06:35,000 | 03:06:37,000 | 相關議題感覺上好像 |
| 03:06:37,000 | 03:06:39,000 | 您跟石崇良部長 |
| 03:06:39,000 | 03:06:41,000 | 已經請辭我跟你確認一下 |
| 03:06:41,000 | 03:06:43,000 | 您請辭了嗎包委員 |
| 03:06:43,000 | 03:06:45,000 | 我現在還在這邊上班 |
| 03:06:45,000 | 03:06:47,000 | 你在這邊上班跟你請辭是兩件事情 |
| 03:06:47,000 | 03:06:49,000 | 不要耍嘴皮子你請辭了嗎 |
| 03:06:49,000 | 03:06:51,000 | 上班就是持續吧還沒有做完的事情 |
| 03:06:51,000 | 03:06:53,000 | 那有沒有請辭你請辭 |
| 03:06:53,000 | 03:06:55,000 | 有可能還沒批啊或者是你請辭可能 |
| 03:06:55,000 | 03:06:57,000 | 為了留一個禮拜你有沒有立出請辭 |
| 03:06:57,000 | 03:06:59,000 | 這個動作有沒有 |
| 03:06:59,000 | 03:07:01,000 | 我想委員心裡面的答案跟我答案 |
| 03:07:01,000 | 03:07:03,000 | 是一樣的 |
| 03:07:03,000 | 03:07:05,000 | 我沒有答案的那我也沒有答案 |
| 03:07:05,000 | 03:07:07,000 | 那所以你有沒有動作不是答案 |
| 03:07:07,000 | 03:07:09,000 | 不是不要浪費我的時間好不好你有沒有請辭 |
| 03:07:09,000 | 03:07:11,000 | 那麼晚回答喔 |
| 03:07:11,000 | 03:07:13,000 | 今天請辭也代表是一個負責的表現 |
| 03:07:13,000 | 03:07:15,000 | 我想這邊跟委員做進一步 |
| 03:07:15,000 | 03:07:17,000 | 說明我來 |
| 03:07:17,000 | 03:07:19,000 | 有三件重要的事情 |
| 03:07:19,000 | 03:07:21,000 | 第一個堅持我對於食安的科學治理 |
| 03:07:21,000 | 03:07:23,000 | 這個事情 |
| 03:07:23,000 | 03:07:25,000 | 這個是你上任的時候要講的 |
| 03:07:25,000 | 03:07:27,000 | 我現在問你請辭就這麼簡單你答不出來 |
| 03:07:27,000 | 03:07:29,000 | 我覺得很重要的事情是 |
| 03:07:29,000 | 03:07:31,000 | 我們所有的堅持 |
| 03:07:31,000 | 03:07:33,000 | 我們所有同仁的尊嚴的努力 |
| 03:07:33,000 | 03:07:35,000 | 有沒有需要堅持下去 |
| 03:07:35,000 | 03:07:37,000 | 所以我堅持還持續 |
| 03:07:37,000 | 03:07:39,000 | 我看你回答這麼困難喔 |
| 03:07:39,000 | 03:07:41,000 | 我想說應該是請辭了啦因為 |
| 03:07:41,000 | 03:07:43,000 | 我剛剛前面有鋪陳嘛然後你剛剛意思說 |
| 03:07:43,000 | 03:07:45,000 | 答案跟我一樣我想說你應該請辭 |
| 03:07:45,000 | 03:07:47,000 | 那你可能答錯了 |
| 03:07:47,000 | 03:07:49,000 | 喔那你就是沒請辭喔一樣 |
| 03:07:49,000 | 03:07:51,000 | 所以就沒有請辭 |
| 03:07:51,000 | 03:07:53,000 | 那你沒有請辭我就不懂為什麼 |
| 03:07:53,000 | 03:07:55,000 | 謝謝委員可以住在我心裡面 |
| 03:07:55,000 | 03:07:57,000 | 沒有因為我說你請辭你說我答錯 |
| 03:07:57,000 | 03:07:59,000 | 那不就沒請辭嗎 |
| 03:07:59,000 | 03:08:01,000 | 這時候這就是有跟沒有嘛 |
| 03:08:01,000 | 03:08:03,000 | 這個我覺得大家的中文 |
| 03:08:03,000 | 03:08:05,000 | 不用弄到那麼複雜 |
| 03:08:05,000 | 03:08:07,000 | 我說你沒請辭 |
| 03:08:07,000 | 03:08:09,000 | 你說我答錯 |
| 03:08:09,000 | 03:08:11,000 | 我的去留最關心的是中聯 |
| 03:08:11,000 | 03:08:13,000 | 為什麼現在 |
| 03:08:13,000 | 03:08:15,000 | 我強力的譴責我這邊去邀請全民 |
| 03:08:15,000 | 03:08:17,000 | 一起來解決中聯 |
| 03:08:17,000 | 03:08:19,000 | 大家請問一下你要不要請辭 |
| 03:08:19,000 | 03:08:23,000 | 我要每一次答不出問題的時候就顧左右言他好不好 |
| 03:08:23,000 | 03:08:25,000 | 受不了 |
| 03:08:25,000 | 03:08:27,000 | 那些官員每次來這邊都在這邊耍嘴皮子 |
| 03:08:27,000 | 03:08:29,000 | 受不了耶 |
| 03:08:29,000 | 03:08:31,000 | 不然就說謊 |
| 03:08:31,000 | 03:08:33,000 | 我現在問你請問一下上個禮拜上上禮拜 |
| 03:08:33,000 | 03:08:35,000 | 我在衛環委員會問石頭良部長 |
| 03:08:35,000 | 03:08:37,000 | 我問他說7月3號 |
| 03:08:37,000 | 03:08:39,000 | 討論食品下架會議的時候 |
| 03:08:39,000 | 03:08:41,000 | 中聯的人 |
| 03:08:41,000 | 03:08:43,000 | 有沒有從頭到尾待在那邊 |
| 03:08:43,000 | 03:08:45,000 | 那他說沒有 |
| 03:08:45,000 | 03:08:47,000 | 因為他報告完 |
| 03:08:47,000 | 03:08:49,000 | 復工的程序之後就離開了 |
| 03:08:49,000 | 03:08:51,000 | 回答沒有超過 |
| 03:08:51,000 | 03:08:53,000 | 我問他立刻回答 |
| 03:08:53,000 | 03:08:55,000 | 沒有吃一不到0.00001秒 |
| 03:08:55,000 | 03:08:57,000 | 那我當下就相信了 |
| 03:08:57,000 | 03:08:59,000 | 以為中聯的人報告完復工程序就離開 |
| 03:08:59,000 | 03:09:01,000 | 結果沒有想到上個禮拜 |
| 03:09:01,000 | 03:09:03,000 | 其他委員問你的時候你在現場嘛 |
| 03:09:03,000 | 03:09:05,000 | 7月3號食安會你在現場嘛 |
| 03:09:05,000 | 03:09:07,000 | 對不對 |
| 03:09:07,000 | 03:09:09,000 | 7月3號 |
| 03:09:09,000 | 03:09:11,000 | 7月4號 |
| 03:09:11,000 | 03:09:13,000 | 我說7月4號 |
| 03:09:13,000 | 03:09:15,000 | 拜託主席 |
| 03:09:15,000 | 03:09:17,000 | 我們請官員不要在那邊皮子樣好不好 |
| 03:09:17,000 | 03:09:19,000 | 我們現在討論是攸關食安重要議題 |
| 03:09:19,000 | 03:09:21,000 | 連衛福部的食安署長都在那邊耍皮子喔 |
| 03:09:21,000 | 03:09:23,000 | 國安都在看 |
| 03:09:23,000 | 03:09:25,000 | 你遇到回答不出來的問題 |
| 03:09:25,000 | 03:09:27,000 | 你就只能用耍皮子的方式 |
| 03:09:27,000 | 03:09:29,000 | 來迴避 |
| 03:09:29,000 | 03:09:31,000 | 這就是官 |
| 03:09:31,000 | 03:09:33,000 | 7月4號嘛 |
| 03:09:33,000 | 03:09:35,000 | 你在嘛 |
| 03:09:35,000 | 03:09:37,000 | 那請問一下中聯的人 |
| 03:09:37,000 | 03:09:39,000 | 他有報告完復工程序就離開嗎 |
| 03:09:39,000 | 03:09:41,000 | 跟委員報告完 |
| 03:09:41,000 | 03:09:43,000 | 他有沒有聽到你們在討論食品下架標準 |
| 03:09:43,000 | 03:09:45,000 | 有沒有 |
| 03:09:45,000 | 03:09:47,000 | 我們把整體的所有的內容都已經公開給全國 |
| 03:09:47,000 | 03:09:49,000 | 不是我問你問題你回答就好了 |
| 03:09:49,000 | 03:09:51,000 | 你不要再扯別的 |
| 03:09:51,000 | 03:09:53,000 | 中聯的人是不是在現場就直接聽到你們在討論 |
| 03:09:53,000 | 03:09:55,000 | 下架標準有沒有嘛 |
| 03:09:55,000 | 03:09:57,000 | 我想我們討論跟他 |
| 03:09:57,000 | 03:09:59,000 | 有沒有在現場 |
| 03:09:59,000 | 03:10:01,000 | 我們持續在討論 |
| 03:10:01,000 | 03:10:03,000 | 有沒有在現場根據歐盟的標準 |
| 03:10:03,000 | 03:10:05,000 | 跟好標準 |
| 03:10:05,000 | 03:10:07,000 | 報告報告報告報告報告主席 |
| 03:10:07,000 | 03:10:09,000 | 你會不會約束一下這個官員 |
| 03:10:09,000 | 03:10:11,000 | 我問他的問題他一直扯別的 |
| 03:10:11,000 | 03:10:13,000 | 這樣子你給我20分鐘都不夠啊 |
| 03:10:13,000 | 03:10:15,000 | 大家全部靠在這邊啊 |
| 03:10:15,000 | 03:10:17,000 | 那個據實的回答好不好 |
| 03:10:17,000 | 03:10:19,000 | 中聯的人你們在討論下架標準的時候 |
| 03:10:19,000 | 03:10:21,000 | 他在不在現場 |
| 03:10:21,000 | 03:10:23,000 | 在不在在或不在 |
| 03:10:23,000 | 03:10:25,000 | 容我說明 |
| 03:10:25,000 | 03:10:27,000 | 你回答在或不在 |
| 03:10:27,000 | 03:10:29,000 | 我們從頭到尾都有在討論 |
| 03:10:29,000 | 03:10:31,000 | 所以時常人說謊嘛 |
| 03:10:31,000 | 03:10:33,000 | 一個衛福部長 |
| 03:10:33,000 | 03:10:35,000 | 一個衛福部長可以在國會電臺公然說謊 |
| 03:10:35,000 | 03:10:37,000 | 所以時常人 |
| 03:10:37,000 | 03:10:39,000 | 我猜可能他是因為 |
| 03:10:39,000 | 03:10:41,000 | 說謊辭職 |
| 03:10:41,000 | 03:10:43,000 | 那部長我現在問你 |
| 03:10:43,000 | 03:10:45,000 | 你後來講說7月4號 |
| 03:10:45,000 | 03:10:47,000 | 那個下架標準20%不用下架 |
| 03:10:47,000 | 03:10:49,000 | 是您的決策嘛 |
| 03:10:49,000 | 03:10:51,000 | 你有說過嗎 |
| 03:10:51,000 | 03:10:53,000 | 你有說過嘛 |
| 03:10:53,000 | 03:10:55,000 | 那專家因為主持人我們都看了 |
| 03:10:55,000 | 03:10:57,000 | 主持人我們都看了 |
| 03:10:57,000 | 03:10:59,000 | 有的專家是講說 |
| 03:10:59,000 | 03:11:01,000 | 不用耍嘴皮子好不好 |
| 03:11:01,000 | 03:11:03,000 | 真的受不了耶 |
| 03:11:03,000 | 03:11:05,000 | 各位網友如果你們 |
| 03:11:05,000 | 03:11:07,000 | 全國的民眾如果有在看的話 |
| 03:11:07,000 | 03:11:09,000 | 這就是我們的官 |
| 03:11:09,000 | 03:11:11,000 | 答不出問題的時候就在那邊耍嘴皮子 |
| 03:11:11,000 | 03:11:13,000 | 我在講很嚴肅的食安問題 |
| 03:11:13,000 | 03:11:15,000 | 你在跟我幹嘛跟我抬槓喔 |
| 03:11:15,000 | 03:11:17,000 | 誰教你的啊 |
| 03:11:17,000 | 03:11:19,000 | 是卓文泰教你的嗎 |
| 03:11:19,000 | 03:11:21,000 | 是卓文泰教你的嗎 |
| 03:11:21,000 | 03:11:23,000 | 我在跟你討論食安問題 |
| 03:11:23,000 | 03:11:25,000 | 在跟我抬槓 |
| 03:11:25,000 | 03:11:27,000 | 有兩個專家 |
| 03:11:27,000 | 03:11:29,000 | 一個G專家 |
| 03:11:29,000 | 03:11:31,000 | 他講說 |
| 03:11:31,000 | 03:11:33,000 | 定20%就會定於容許值 |
| 03:11:33,000 | 03:11:35,000 | G專家講了對不對 |
| 03:11:35,000 | 03:11:37,000 | 還有一個另外一個E專家講說 |
| 03:11:37,000 | 03:11:39,000 | 如果只考慮比例 |
| 03:11:39,000 | 03:11:41,000 | 而沒有考慮到劑量的話 |
| 03:11:41,000 | 03:11:43,000 | 因為他舉了一個膠囊的例子跟一個面的例子 |
| 03:11:43,000 | 03:11:45,000 | 你使用不同的劑量 |
| 03:11:45,000 | 03:11:47,000 | 他所使用到的粉填皮就會不一樣 |
| 03:11:47,000 | 03:11:49,000 | 有吧 |
| 03:11:49,000 | 03:11:51,000 | 這個會議紀錄上面有這樣寫吧 |
| 03:11:51,000 | 03:11:53,000 | 有這樣子的 |
| 03:11:53,000 | 03:11:55,000 | 有這樣子那我就很好奇啊 |
| 03:11:55,000 | 03:11:57,000 | 如果我們今天針對食安標準 |
| 03:11:57,000 | 03:11:59,000 | 我們會採取零容忍的標準 |
| 03:11:59,000 | 03:12:01,000 | 這也是民進黨一直跟大家講的 |
| 03:12:01,000 | 03:12:03,000 | 食安五環食安零容忍 |
| 03:12:03,000 | 03:12:05,000 | 結果剛你召開一個食安會議 |
| 03:12:05,000 | 03:12:07,000 | 有的專家認為20%就可以 |
| 03:12:07,000 | 03:12:09,000 | 有的專家認為說 |
| 03:12:09,000 | 03:12:11,000 | 這20%沒有考慮到劑量 |
| 03:12:11,000 | 03:12:13,000 | 可能還是有風險 |
| 03:12:13,000 | 03:12:15,000 | 結果署長在拍板定案的時候 |
| 03:12:15,000 | 03:12:17,000 | 忽略了對食安比較重視的專家 |
| 03:12:17,000 | 03:12:19,000 | 反而聽信了 |
| 03:12:19,000 | 03:12:21,000 | 對食安比較寬鬆的專家 |
| 03:12:21,000 | 03:12:23,000 | 我不知道為什麼 |
| 03:12:23,000 | 03:12:25,000 | 署長您對於食安 |
| 03:12:25,000 | 03:12:27,000 | 是這樣子的態度吧 |
| 03:12:27,000 | 03:12:29,000 | 可是容許我現在給您一步回答 |
| 03:12:29,000 | 03:12:31,000 | 這個扁平皮8.1PPB |
| 03:12:31,000 | 03:12:33,000 | 按照我們的 |
| 03:12:33,000 | 03:12:35,000 | 所謂的暴露 |
| 03:12:35,000 | 03:12:37,000 | 算起來的Margin of Social MOE |
| 03:12:37,000 | 03:12:39,000 | 大於一萬 |
| 03:12:39,000 | 03:12:41,000 | 他是可忽略的 |
| 03:12:41,000 | 03:12:43,000 | 更何況呢下降到20% |
| 03:12:43,000 | 03:12:45,000 | 從科學上面他是這樣 |
| 03:12:45,000 | 03:12:47,000 | 但是安全跟安心 |
| 03:12:47,000 | 03:12:49,000 | 我了解國人對於食品的安心 |
| 03:12:49,000 | 03:12:51,000 | 需要我更多的努力 |
| 03:12:51,000 | 03:12:53,000 | 更多的溝通 |
| 03:12:53,000 | 03:12:55,000 | 所以這個過程中 |
| 03:12:55,000 | 03:12:57,000 | MOE這件事情相當的複雜 |
| 03:12:57,000 | 03:12:59,000 | 有機會可以上課 |
| 03:12:59,000 | 03:13:01,000 | 這個我都聽過啦 |
| 03:13:01,000 | 03:13:03,000 | 所以可忽略的 |
| 03:13:03,000 | 03:13:05,000 | 署長你的意思是說 |
| 03:13:05,000 | 03:13:07,000 | 食安的專報就是食安專家 |
| 03:13:07,000 | 03:13:09,000 | 來各合言而至 |
| 03:13:09,000 | 03:13:11,000 | 反正你心中有定見嘛 |
| 03:13:11,000 | 03:13:13,000 | 最後就是你來拍板擺這件事 |
| 03:13:13,000 | 03:13:15,000 | 因為我現在問你的問題是說 |
| 03:13:15,000 | 03:13:17,000 | 那麼多食安專家在討論 |
| 03:13:17,000 | 03:13:19,000 | 結果你只聽信了那些對食安標準 |
| 03:13:19,000 | 03:13:21,000 | 比較寬鬆的 |
| 03:13:21,000 | 03:13:23,000 | 就忽略了 |
| 03:13:23,000 | 03:13:25,000 | 結果你講的是你自己的看法 |
| 03:13:25,000 | 03:13:27,000 | 你自己就有這個定見 |
| 03:13:27,000 | 03:13:29,000 | 20%就是你將至剛定的 |
| 03:13:29,000 | 03:13:31,000 | 那如果是這樣的話 |
| 03:13:31,000 | 03:13:33,000 | 總統為什麼在六天後發文 |
| 03:13:33,000 | 03:13:35,000 | 說該下降就下架 |
| 03:13:35,000 | 03:13:37,000 | 所以是總統 |
| 03:13:37,000 | 03:13:39,000 | 沒有聽信你的專業意見 |
| 03:13:39,000 | 03:13:41,000 | 各位報告全世界 |
| 03:13:41,000 | 03:13:43,000 | 獨立的專家應該 |
| 03:13:43,000 | 03:13:45,000 | 比較偏向MOE |
| 03:13:45,000 | 03:13:47,000 | 這個我想 |
| 03:13:47,000 | 03:13:49,000 | 7月4號專家會議開完之後 |
| 03:13:49,000 | 03:13:51,000 | 大家也都聽到了 |
| 03:13:51,000 | 03:13:53,000 | 那麼多專家表達意見 |
| 03:13:53,000 | 03:13:55,000 | 署長的意思就是以自己的意見 |
| 03:13:55,000 | 03:13:57,000 | 有啊你剛剛就是用你自己的意見在講啊 |
| 03:13:57,000 | 03:13:59,000 | 我剛剛問你說那麼多專家不同意見 |
| 03:13:59,000 | 03:14:01,000 | 為什麼你採用了那個 |
| 03:14:01,000 | 03:14:03,000 | 居專家意見你說沒有 |
| 03:14:03,000 | 03:14:05,000 | 講一大堆你的自己的意見啊 |
| 03:14:05,000 | 03:14:07,000 | 所以你就是自己來判斷 |
| 03:14:07,000 | 03:14:09,000 | 20%應該下架嘛 |
| 03:14:09,000 | 03:14:11,000 | 謝謝署長請回 |
| 03:14:11,000 | 03:14:13,000 | 那我現在請經濟部長 |
| 03:14:13,000 | 03:14:15,000 | 部長希望你不要跟那個署長一樣 |
| 03:14:15,000 | 03:14:17,000 | 我們就是認識討論問題 |
| 03:14:17,000 | 03:14:19,000 | 不會加分啊不會對民進黨政府加分 |
| 03:14:19,000 | 03:14:21,000 | 那個部長 |
| 03:14:21,000 | 03:14:23,000 | 我今天早上聽了很多 |
| 03:14:23,000 | 03:14:25,000 | 民黨立委用了各式各樣的 |
| 03:14:25,000 | 03:14:27,000 | 的比喻啊比喻說台湯到底要通報 |
| 03:14:27,000 | 03:14:29,000 | 我其實也是覺得很匪夷所思 |
| 03:14:29,000 | 03:14:31,000 | 有一位立委講說偽鈔 |
| 03:14:31,000 | 03:14:33,000 | 要通報什麼黃金存度不足就不用通報 |
| 03:14:33,000 | 03:14:35,000 | 黃金存度不足是 |
| 03:14:35,000 | 03:14:37,000 | 會影響到什麼食安的問題嗎 |
| 03:14:37,000 | 03:14:39,000 | 還是黃金存度不足你 |
| 03:14:39,000 | 03:14:41,000 | 買了之後會影響到什麼市場秩序的問題嗎 |
| 03:14:41,000 | 03:14:43,000 | 現在大家在 |
| 03:14:43,000 | 03:14:45,000 | 討論這個問題為什麼在討論 |
| 03:14:45,000 | 03:14:47,000 | 原料為什麼要採用高標準 |
| 03:14:47,000 | 03:14:49,000 | 如果驗出來本便品稍不要通報 |
| 03:14:49,000 | 03:14:51,000 | 就是因為大家可能會 |
| 03:14:51,000 | 03:14:53,000 | 讓人家吃到肚子裡面會影響到健康 |
| 03:14:53,000 | 03:14:55,000 | 所以不要再用 |
| 03:14:55,000 | 03:14:57,000 | 不倫不類的比喻了 |
| 03:14:57,000 | 03:14:59,000 | 那我覺得經濟部我們知道部長您 |
| 03:14:59,000 | 03:15:01,000 | 這個貼文在PO出來之前你有沒有 |
| 03:15:01,000 | 03:15:03,000 | 看過啦我們來看一下你的貼文 |
| 03:15:03,000 | 03:15:05,000 | 一開始的時候經濟部為了幫 |
| 03:15:05,000 | 03:15:07,000 | 台湯護航說 |
| 03:15:07,000 | 03:15:09,000 | 再次再次證實 |
| 03:15:09,000 | 03:15:11,000 | 這個要讓客人 |
| 03:15:11,000 | 03:15:13,000 | 安心從原料到產品 |
| 03:15:13,000 | 03:15:15,000 | 台湯都是用高標準自我檢驗 |
| 03:15:15,000 | 03:15:17,000 | 自己的好寶寶 |
| 03:15:17,000 | 03:15:19,000 | 然後後來 |
| 03:15:19,000 | 03:15:21,000 | 在下午不到一個多小時 |
| 03:15:21,000 | 03:15:23,000 | 就把它改了 |
| 03:15:23,000 | 03:15:25,000 | 改成說再次提醒什麼 |
| 03:15:25,000 | 03:15:27,000 | 要讓客人安心從原料到產品 |
| 03:15:27,000 | 03:15:29,000 | 台湯都是用高標準自我檢驗 |
| 03:15:29,000 | 03:15:31,000 | 自己的壞 |
| 03:15:31,000 | 03:15:33,000 | 的乖寶寶 |
| 03:15:33,000 | 03:15:35,000 | 所以那個大家就開始討論了 |
| 03:15:35,000 | 03:15:37,000 | 請問一下好寶寶跟乖寶寶差別在哪裡 |
| 03:15:37,000 | 03:15:39,000 | 部長我問一下 |
| 03:15:39,000 | 03:15:41,000 | 這個從好寶寶改到乖寶寶 |
| 03:15:41,000 | 03:15:43,000 | 是為了什麼 |
| 03:15:43,000 | 03:15:45,000 | 然後好寶寶是什麼意思乖寶寶什麼意思 |
| 03:15:45,000 | 03:15:47,000 | 我就就這個個案上面 |
| 03:15:47,000 | 03:15:49,000 | 報告委員因為我們 |
| 03:15:49,000 | 03:15:51,000 | 知道就是說台湯公司是 |
| 03:15:51,000 | 03:15:53,000 | 依法行政 |
| 03:15:53,000 | 03:15:55,000 | 按照相關的規定管理他們有SOP |
| 03:15:55,000 | 03:15:57,000 | 不是啦我問你好寶寶 |
| 03:15:57,000 | 03:15:59,000 | 為什麼要把好寶寶改成乖寶寶 |
| 03:15:59,000 | 03:16:01,000 | 差別在哪就是主管機關 |
| 03:16:01,000 | 03:16:03,000 | 的要求他們通通有達到 |
| 03:16:03,000 | 03:16:05,000 | 所以是很好還是乖 |
| 03:16:05,000 | 03:16:07,000 | 很乖那為什麼 |
| 03:16:07,000 | 03:16:09,000 | 不好 |
| 03:16:09,000 | 03:16:11,000 | 也很好也很乖 |
| 03:16:11,000 | 03:16:13,000 | 那為什麼好寶寶要變成 |
| 03:16:13,000 | 03:16:15,000 | 改成乖寶寶你應該改成 |
| 03:16:15,000 | 03:16:17,000 | 好寶寶跟乖寶寶 |
| 03:16:17,000 | 03:16:19,000 | 然後乖寶寶你的意思 |
| 03:16:19,000 | 03:16:21,000 | 是說主管機關有要求他有做到 |
| 03:16:21,000 | 03:16:23,000 | 所以很乖但是不夠好是因為 |
| 03:16:23,000 | 03:16:25,000 | 他不夠主動我們下次就再把它 |
| 03:16:25,000 | 03:16:27,000 | 改成好家乖好了 |
| 03:16:27,000 | 03:16:29,000 | 那你這次改的意思是什麼 |
| 03:16:29,000 | 03:16:31,000 | 我們想要了解一下 |
| 03:16:31,000 | 03:16:33,000 | 經濟部做為一個 |
| 03:16:33,000 | 03:16:35,000 | 官就是我們行政院 |
| 03:16:35,000 | 03:16:37,000 | 下面這麼大部會 |
| 03:16:37,000 | 03:16:39,000 | 一個字當然國人都想要知道 |
| 03:16:39,000 | 03:16:41,000 | 當你用詞箝制你的意思是什麼 |
| 03:16:41,000 | 03:16:43,000 | 好改成乖是為什麼 |
| 03:16:43,000 | 03:16:45,000 | 乖你剛剛講了啦乖是說 |
| 03:16:45,000 | 03:16:47,000 | 主管機關的要求都有做到啦 |
| 03:16:47,000 | 03:16:49,000 | 那好咧而且你把好改成乖 |
| 03:16:49,000 | 03:16:51,000 | 沒有那麼好但是有點乖是這個意思嗎 |
| 03:16:53,000 | 03:16:55,000 | 重點還是在 |
| 03:16:55,000 | 03:16:57,000 | 不是重點因為你 |
| 03:16:57,000 | 03:16:59,000 | 你們的貼文就是你們的立場 |
| 03:16:59,000 | 03:17:01,000 | 你們的立場今天如果是 |
| 03:17:01,000 | 03:17:03,000 | 不是經濟他粉專不是經濟 |
| 03:17:03,000 | 03:17:05,000 | 部他是經濟部之友 |
| 03:17:05,000 | 03:17:07,000 | 或者是經濟部的什麼 |
| 03:17:07,000 | 03:17:09,000 | 我們就沒有人會拿來討論 |
| 03:17:09,000 | 03:17:11,000 | 經濟部其實就是你講的啦 |
| 03:17:11,000 | 03:17:13,000 | 因為你是部長啦經濟部就是你講 |
| 03:17:13,000 | 03:17:15,000 | 像總統臉書大家就認為 |
| 03:17:15,000 | 03:17:17,000 | 是總統講的嘛不會認為是總統小編講的嘛 |
| 03:17:17,000 | 03:17:19,000 | 所以我真的不知道 |
| 03:17:19,000 | 03:17:21,000 | 這個到底是要幹嘛 |
| 03:17:21,000 | 03:17:23,000 | 後面那個我覺得更荒謬 |
| 03:17:23,000 | 03:17:25,000 | 這個部長你也看一下 |
| 03:17:25,000 | 03:17:27,000 | 一開始的時候講說食人議題 |
| 03:17:27,000 | 03:17:29,000 | 很多人把官但是通報義務不要無限上綱 |
| 03:17:29,000 | 03:17:31,000 | 上綱 |
| 03:17:31,000 | 03:17:33,000 | 若餐廳去菜市場買菜 |
| 03:17:33,000 | 03:17:35,000 | 要求採購人員把看到所有的爛菜都要通報 |
| 03:17:35,000 | 03:17:37,000 | 這是檢舉達人做的事 |
| 03:17:37,000 | 03:17:39,000 | 不是食品業者的業務 |
| 03:17:39,000 | 03:17:41,000 | 就是說如果看到爛菜 |
| 03:17:41,000 | 03:17:43,000 | 要去檢舉是檢舉達人 |
| 03:17:43,000 | 03:17:45,000 | 不是食品業者然後後來又把 |
| 03:17:45,000 | 03:17:47,000 | 檢舉達人這幾個字改掉 |
| 03:17:47,000 | 03:17:49,000 | 但是 |
| 03:17:49,000 | 03:17:51,000 | 還是一樣就是說食品業者 |
| 03:17:51,000 | 03:17:53,000 | 餐廳去買菜如果看到爛菜是不用通報的 |
| 03:17:53,000 | 03:17:55,000 | 那你們是不是一開始覺得 |
| 03:17:55,000 | 03:17:57,000 | 拿檢舉達人來比喻 |
| 03:17:57,000 | 03:17:59,000 | 不倫不類是不是後來就把它改掉是不是 |
| 03:17:59,000 | 03:18:01,000 | 八委員剛開始 |
| 03:18:01,000 | 03:18:03,000 | 當然是用比喻的方法希望 |
| 03:18:03,000 | 03:18:05,000 | 簡單的讓 |
| 03:18:05,000 | 03:18:07,000 | 一般民眾可以了解 |
| 03:18:07,000 | 03:18:09,000 | 那你幹嘛改 |
| 03:18:09,000 | 03:18:11,000 | 但是這個 |
| 03:18:11,000 | 03:18:13,000 | 如果最終還是要回歸到 |
| 03:18:13,000 | 03:18:15,000 | 這個法律跟法條上的 |
| 03:18:15,000 | 03:18:17,000 | 這個解釋 |
| 03:18:17,000 | 03:18:19,000 | 那你後來講的這個什麼 |
| 03:18:19,000 | 03:18:21,000 | 爛菜我也覺得不妥為什麼 |
| 03:18:21,000 | 03:18:23,000 | 因為爛菜吃了 |
| 03:18:23,000 | 03:18:25,000 | 吃了 |
| 03:18:25,000 | 03:18:27,000 | 不會有我們講的什麼 |
| 03:18:27,000 | 03:18:29,000 | 生癌症的問題 |
| 03:18:29,000 | 03:18:31,000 | 那我舉這個例子 |
| 03:18:31,000 | 03:18:33,000 | 我覺得大家不要再用 |
| 03:18:33,000 | 03:18:35,000 | 不倫不類的比喻在那邊講了 |
| 03:18:35,000 | 03:18:37,000 | 今天之前食安法 |
| 03:18:37,000 | 03:18:39,000 | 它其實很重要 |
| 03:18:39,000 | 03:18:41,000 | 就是要求業者自主管理 |
| 03:18:41,000 | 03:18:43,000 | 為什麼呢因為每一天 |
| 03:18:43,000 | 03:18:45,000 | 那麼多食品業者生產那麼多的油 |
| 03:18:45,000 | 03:18:47,000 | 生產那麼多的食品如果你要地方政府 |
| 03:18:47,000 | 03:18:49,000 | 全部都用普查的方式來 |
| 03:18:49,000 | 03:18:51,000 | 防止有 |
| 03:18:51,000 | 03:18:53,000 | 癌症的東西出來的話是不可能的事情 |
| 03:18:53,000 | 03:18:55,000 | 所以用抽查但是主要 |
| 03:18:55,000 | 03:18:57,000 | 是靠業者自主管理 |
| 03:18:57,000 | 03:18:59,000 | 以前精神是這樣 |
| 03:18:59,000 | 03:19:01,000 | 因為你不可能全部都是抽查 |
| 03:19:01,000 | 03:19:03,000 | 不然就變普查了 |
| 03:19:03,000 | 03:19:05,000 | 還有一個重點就是要靠上中下游的相互 |
| 03:19:05,000 | 03:19:07,000 | 簽字譬如說 |
| 03:19:07,000 | 03:19:09,000 | 下游的買到上游的東西一驗發現說 |
| 03:19:09,000 | 03:19:11,000 | 有問題馬上通報 |
| 03:19:11,000 | 03:19:13,000 | 互相簽字 |
| 03:19:13,000 | 03:19:15,000 | 那台南這個問題為什麼大家認為說 |
| 03:19:15,000 | 03:19:17,000 | 他沒有通報是一個很大的問題 |
| 03:19:17,000 | 03:19:19,000 | 因為你們都完全不了解大家在講什麼 |
| 03:19:19,000 | 03:19:21,000 | 問題就是其實 |
| 03:19:21,000 | 03:19:23,000 | 他就是上中下游的一環 |
| 03:19:23,000 | 03:19:25,000 | 他今天有買到 |
| 03:19:25,000 | 03:19:27,000 | 脫膠原油或什麼最後不是食品的東西 |
| 03:19:27,000 | 03:19:29,000 | 那你驗出來本便品超標 |
| 03:19:29,000 | 03:19:31,000 | 實際上通 |
| 03:19:31,000 | 03:19:33,000 | 如果有通報的話大家就多一層安心 |
| 03:19:33,000 | 03:19:35,000 | 而且剛剛我聽到 |
| 03:19:35,000 | 03:19:37,000 | 其他委員在質詢台湯的時候 |
| 03:19:37,000 | 03:19:39,000 | 確實證明了一件事情 |
| 03:19:39,000 | 03:19:41,000 | 就是以前買的脫膠原油 |
| 03:19:41,000 | 03:19:43,000 | 都沒有本便品超標 |
| 03:19:43,000 | 03:19:45,000 | 但這次買的就有超標 |
| 03:19:45,000 | 03:19:47,000 | 超標的好像七倍還八倍 |
| 03:19:47,000 | 03:19:49,000 | 非常高就已經很不尋常了 |
| 03:19:49,000 | 03:19:51,000 | 然後事實也證明 |
| 03:19:51,000 | 03:19:53,000 | 這一次確實中聯所 |
| 03:19:53,000 | 03:19:55,000 | 生產出來的那些 |
| 03:19:55,000 | 03:19:57,000 | 不管是精油也好食品也好 |
| 03:19:57,000 | 03:19:59,000 | 都有一些就有本便品超標可能是原料的問題 |
| 03:19:59,000 | 03:20:01,000 | 所以你有沒有發現 |
| 03:20:01,000 | 03:20:03,000 | 如果這一次台湯五月中的時候 |
| 03:20:03,000 | 03:20:05,000 | 有通報的話 |
| 03:20:05,000 | 03:20:07,000 | 實際上大家很可能就根據這個線索 |
| 03:20:07,000 | 03:20:09,000 | 去查到了中聯其他的 |
| 03:20:09,000 | 03:20:11,000 | 油可能有問題 |
| 03:20:11,000 | 03:20:13,000 | 就可以讓大家少吃很多天的本便品 |
| 03:20:13,000 | 03:20:15,000 | 所以這個問題重點在這裡 |
| 03:20:15,000 | 03:20:17,000 | 結果我每次 |
| 03:20:17,000 | 03:20:19,000 | 我看到很多委員都在質詢 |
| 03:20:19,000 | 03:20:21,000 | 部長或是外服部都在玩明治 |
| 03:20:21,000 | 03:20:23,000 | 文字遊戲都在那邊講說 |
| 03:20:23,000 | 03:20:25,000 | 這個到底是不是算原料 |
| 03:20:25,000 | 03:20:27,000 | 這不是食品的原料原料是大豆 |
| 03:20:27,000 | 03:20:29,000 | 它是脫膠原油 |
| 03:20:29,000 | 03:20:31,000 | 全部都在講文字遊戲 |
| 03:20:31,000 | 03:20:33,000 | 你有把人民的健康 |
| 03:20:33,000 | 03:20:35,000 | 放在心裡嗎 |
| 03:20:35,000 | 03:20:37,000 | 如果你多做一點事情 |
| 03:20:37,000 | 03:20:39,000 | 人民就少吃非常多天的本便品 |
| 03:20:41,000 | 03:20:43,000 | 所以你們現在還是一直 |
| 03:20:43,000 | 03:20:45,000 | 我們要做更好我們要怎麼樣 |
| 03:20:45,000 | 03:20:47,000 | 我覺得大家真的 |
| 03:20:47,000 | 03:20:49,000 | 我覺得大家真的會看不下去 |
| 03:20:49,000 | 03:20:51,000 | 然後更不要說台湯是國營事業 |
| 03:20:51,000 | 03:20:53,000 | 國營政府是一體的 |
| 03:20:53,000 | 03:20:55,000 | 部長請你回應一下 |
| 03:20:55,000 | 03:20:57,000 | 八位委員 |
| 03:20:57,000 | 03:20:59,000 | 台湯查到311油桶 |
| 03:20:59,000 | 03:21:01,000 | 基本上已經 |
| 03:21:01,000 | 03:21:03,000 | 簽封起來 |
| 03:21:03,000 | 03:21:05,000 | 現在還在中聯 |
| 03:21:05,000 | 03:21:07,000 | 那一批基本上 |
| 03:21:07,000 | 03:21:09,000 | 那一個是後話 |
| 03:21:09,000 | 03:21:11,000 | 那如果中聯把它賣出去了 |
| 03:21:11,000 | 03:21:13,000 | 賣出去的話中聯就有很大的問題 |
| 03:21:13,000 | 03:21:15,000 | 所以它 |
| 03:21:15,000 | 03:21:17,000 | 所以它沒有賣出去到目前為止 |
| 03:21:17,000 | 03:21:19,000 | 你不用結果論 |
| 03:21:19,000 | 03:21:21,000 | 因為它沒賣所以沒差 |
| 03:21:21,000 | 03:21:23,000 | 但是如果中聯把它賣你剛剛就說有問題 |
| 03:21:23,000 | 03:21:25,000 | 所以台湯 |
| 03:21:25,000 | 03:21:27,000 | 就是應該通報 |
| 03:21:27,000 | 03:21:29,000 | 不管它有沒有賣 |
| 03:21:29,000 | 03:21:31,000 | 因為它有可能會賣 |
| 03:21:31,000 | 03:21:33,000 | 所以台湯就是應該通報 |
| 03:21:33,000 | 03:21:35,000 | 上中下游就是要 |
| 03:21:35,000 | 03:21:37,000 | 互相簽字 |
| 03:21:37,000 | 03:21:39,000 | 因為中聯它 |
| 03:21:39,000 | 03:21:41,000 | 被認為它有超標 |
| 03:21:41,000 | 03:21:43,000 | 就是有比較高的情況下它有幾種方式 |
| 03:21:43,000 | 03:21:45,000 | 第一個它可以不要用使用的 |
| 03:21:45,000 | 03:21:47,000 | 第二個它經驗過程可以多幾道 |
| 03:21:47,000 | 03:21:49,000 | 那成本差很多 |
| 03:21:49,000 | 03:21:51,000 | 所以為什麼 |
| 03:21:51,000 | 03:21:53,000 | 台湯公司不願意接受 |
| 03:21:53,000 | 03:21:55,000 | 因為它這樣的一個標準 |
| 03:21:55,000 | 03:21:57,000 | 它在經驗過程當中要花很多很多的成本進去 |
| 03:21:57,000 | 03:21:59,000 | 所以 |
| 03:21:59,000 | 03:22:01,000 | 我都知道這個我不能放 |
| 03:22:01,000 | 03:22:03,000 | 我覺得不要讓它回去你回答別人都這樣 |
| 03:22:03,000 | 03:22:05,000 | 但是我覺得關鍵是你有沒有發現 |
| 03:22:05,000 | 03:22:07,000 | 它 |
| 03:22:07,000 | 03:22:09,000 | 台湯以前都沒有買過 |
| 03:22:09,000 | 03:22:11,000 | 等頻比超標這麼高的油 |
| 03:22:11,000 | 03:22:13,000 | 對不對剛剛台湯講的嘛 |
| 03:22:13,000 | 03:22:15,000 | 然後 |
| 03:22:15,000 | 03:22:17,000 | 這一次它買到了 |
| 03:22:17,000 | 03:22:19,000 | 它退回去了不關我的事反正我不用就好 |
| 03:22:19,000 | 03:22:21,000 | 據說 |
| 03:22:21,000 | 03:22:23,000 | 它據說 |
| 03:22:23,000 | 03:22:25,000 | 這就不關我的事了反正我沒用就好 |
| 03:22:25,000 | 03:22:27,000 | 可是你有沒有發現 |
| 03:22:27,000 | 03:22:29,000 | 實際上整批不是只有這一桶 |
| 03:22:29,000 | 03:22:31,000 | 整批 |
| 03:22:31,000 | 03:22:33,000 | 整批的中聯的有意大利出問題 |
| 03:22:33,000 | 03:22:35,000 | 所以如果台湯 |
| 03:22:35,000 | 03:22:37,000 | 台湯一個五月多 |
| 03:22:37,000 | 03:22:39,000 | 就有通報的話 |
| 03:22:39,000 | 03:22:41,000 | 實際上搞不好讓政府 |
| 03:22:41,000 | 03:22:43,000 | 去追查就可以防止 |
| 03:22:43,000 | 03:22:45,000 | 這麼多有問題的有流入市面讓民眾 |
| 03:22:45,000 | 03:22:47,000 | 吃到了嗎 |
| 03:22:47,000 | 03:22:49,000 | 所以你今天一直在講台湯好寶寶 |
| 03:22:49,000 | 03:22:51,000 | 台湯就不夠好 |
| 03:22:51,000 | 03:22:53,000 | 如果它更好一點的話 |
| 03:22:53,000 | 03:22:55,000 | 它就通報就可以讓大家不用 |
| 03:22:55,000 | 03:22:57,000 | 吃到本便皮嗎 |
| 03:22:57,000 | 03:22:59,000 | 而不是還需要經濟部出來發這種奇怪的文 |
| 03:22:59,000 | 03:23:01,000 | 所以請你們跟台湯講 |
| 03:23:01,000 | 03:23:03,000 | 好不好這個這一次國營事業 |
| 03:23:03,000 | 03:23:05,000 | 做個好寶寶 |
| 03:23:05,000 | 03:23:07,000 | 幫助大家不要吃到本便皮 |
| 03:23:07,000 | 03:23:09,000 | 一驗到原料就通報 |
| 03:23:09,000 | 03:23:11,000 | 我們就不用這些問題了 |
| 03:23:11,000 | 03:23:13,000 | 謝謝部長 |
| 03:23:13,000 | 03:23:15,000 | 謝謝 |
| 03:23:15,000 | 03:23:17,000 | 謝謝原子委員 |
| 03:23:19,000 | 03:23:21,000 | 登記發言的委員除不在場 |
| 03:23:21,000 | 03:23:23,000 | 外區已經發言完畢 |
| 03:23:23,000 | 03:23:25,000 | 詢答結束 |
| 03:23:25,000 | 03:23:27,000 | 委員徐新穎陳庭飛 |
| 03:23:27,000 | 03:23:29,000 | 邱毅穎傅坤琦陳超明 |
| 03:23:29,000 | 03:23:31,000 | 鄭政前張家俊 |
| 03:23:31,000 | 03:23:33,000 | 賴瑞蓉 |
| 03:23:33,000 | 03:23:35,000 | 所提書面質詢 |
| 03:23:35,000 | 03:23:37,000 | 列入紀錄刊登公報 |
| 03:23:37,000 | 03:23:39,000 | 書面質詢和未集答覆部分 |
| 03:23:39,000 | 03:23:41,000 | 請相關單位一週內 |
| 03:23:41,000 | 03:23:43,000 | 以書面答覆並複製本會 |
| 03:23:43,000 | 03:23:45,000 | 委員令要求 |
| 03:23:45,000 | 03:23:47,000 | 期限者從期鎖定 |
| 03:23:47,000 | 03:23:49,000 | 本日鎖定議程處理 |
| 03:23:49,000 | 03:23:51,000 | 完畢謝謝大家 |
| 03:23:51,000 | 03:23:53,000 | 現在散會 |
| 03:24:07,000 | 03:24:09,000 | 散會 |
| 03:24:37,000 | 03:24:39,000 | 散會 |
| 03:25:07,000 | 03:25:09,000 | 散會 |