iVOD / 17651
本逐字稿內容由 AI 自動生成，可能包含錯誤、遺漏或誤譯之處。請使用者務必與原始影片音訊內容交叉比對，以確保資訊正確性。另可參考立法院日後釋出的正式公報以取得最終權威版本。
完整會議 @ 第11屆第5會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:32,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:42,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:02,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:12,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:32,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:26,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:34,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:44,000 | 00:03:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:09:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:48,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:58,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:28,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:34,000 | 00:10:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:36,000 | 00:10:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:38,000 | 00:10:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:40,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:46,000 | 00:10:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:48,000 | 00:10:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:50,000 | 00:10:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:52,000 | 00:10:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:54,000 | 00:10:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:11:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:00,000 | 00:11:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:02,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:06,000 | 00:11:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:08,000 | 00:11:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:10,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:16,000 | 00:11:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:18,000 | 00:11:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:20,000 | 00:11:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:22,000 | 00:11:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:24,000 | 00:11:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:26,000 | 00:11:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:28,000 | 00:11:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:30,000 | 00:11:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:32,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:36,000 | 00:11:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:38,000 | 00:11:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:40,000 | 00:11:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:42,000 | 00:11:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:44,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:50,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:52,000 | 00:11:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:54,000 | 00:11:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:56,000 | 00:11:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:58,000 | 00:12:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:00,000 | 00:12:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:06,000 | 00:12:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:08,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:16,000 | 00:12:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:18,000 | 00:12:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:20,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:24,000 | 00:12:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:26,000 | 00:12:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:28,000 | 00:12:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:30,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:34,000 | 00:12:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:36,000 | 00:12:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:38,000 | 00:12:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:40,000 | 00:12:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:42,000 | 00:12:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:44,000 | 00:12:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:46,000 | 00:12:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:48,000 | 00:12:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:50,000 | 00:12:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:52,000 | 00:12:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:54,000 | 00:12:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:56,000 | 00:12:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:58,000 | 00:13:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:00,000 | 00:13:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:02,000 | 00:13:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:04,000 | 00:13:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:06,000 | 00:13:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:08,000 | 00:13:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:10,000 | 00:13:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:12,000 | 00:13:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:14,000 | 00:13:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:16,000 | 00:13:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:18,000 | 00:13:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:20,000 | 00:13:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:22,000 | 00:13:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:24,000 | 00:13:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:26,000 | 00:13:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:28,000 | 00:13:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:30,000 | 00:13:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:32,000 | 00:13:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:34,000 | 00:13:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:36,000 | 00:13:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:38,000 | 00:13:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:40,000 | 00:13:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:42,000 | 00:13:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:44,000 | 00:13:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:46,000 | 00:13:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:48,000 | 00:13:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:50,000 | 00:13:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:52,000 | 00:13:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:54,000 | 00:13:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:56,000 | 00:13:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:58,000 | 00:14:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:00,000 | 00:14:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:02,000 | 00:14:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:04,000 | 00:14:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:06,000 | 00:14:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:08,000 | 00:14:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:10,000 | 00:14:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:12,000 | 00:14:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:14,000 | 00:14:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:16,000 | 00:14:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:18,000 | 00:14:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:20,000 | 00:14:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:22,000 | 00:14:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:24,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:28,000 | 00:14:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:30,000 | 00:14:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:32,000 | 00:14:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:34,000 | 00:14:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:36,000 | 00:14:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:38,000 | 00:14:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:40,000 | 00:14:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:42,000 | 00:14:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:44,000 | 00:14:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:46,000 | 00:14:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:48,000 | 00:14:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:50,000 | 00:14:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:52,000 | 00:14:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:54,000 | 00:14:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:56,000 | 00:14:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:58,000 | 00:15:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:00,000 | 00:15:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:02,000 | 00:15:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:04,000 | 00:15:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:06,000 | 00:15:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:08,000 | 00:15:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:10,000 | 00:15:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:12,000 | 00:15:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:14,000 | 00:15:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:16,000 | 00:15:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:18,000 | 00:15:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:20,000 | 00:15:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:22,000 | 00:15:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:24,000 | 00:15:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:26,000 | 00:15:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:28,000 | 00:15:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:30,000 | 00:15:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:32,000 | 00:15:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:34,000 | 00:15:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:36,000 | 00:15:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:38,000 | 00:15:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:40,000 | 00:15:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:42,000 | 00:15:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:44,000 | 00:15:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:46,000 | 00:15:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:48,000 | 00:15:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:50,000 | 00:15:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:52,000 | 00:15:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:54,000 | 00:15:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:56,000 | 00:15:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:58,000 | 00:16:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:00,000 | 00:16:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:02,000 | 00:16:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:04,000 | 00:16:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:06,000 | 00:16:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:08,000 | 00:16:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:10,000 | 00:16:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:12,000 | 00:16:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:14,000 | 00:16:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:16,000 | 00:16:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:18,000 | 00:16:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:20,000 | 00:16:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:22,000 | 00:16:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:24,000 | 00:16:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:26,000 | 00:16:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:28,000 | 00:16:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:30,000 | 00:16:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:32,000 | 00:16:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:34,000 | 00:16:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:36,000 | 00:16:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:38,000 | 00:16:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:40,000 | 00:16:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:42,000 | 00:16:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:44,000 | 00:16:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:46,000 | 00:16:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:48,000 | 00:16:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:50,000 | 00:16:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:52,000 | 00:16:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:54,000 | 00:16:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:56,000 | 00:16:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:58,000 | 00:17:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:00,000 | 00:17:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:02,000 | 00:17:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:04,000 | 00:17:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:06,000 | 00:17:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:08,000 | 00:17:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:10,000 | 00:17:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:12,000 | 00:17:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:14,000 | 00:17:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:16,000 | 00:17:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:18,000 | 00:17:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:20,000 | 00:17:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:22,000 | 00:17:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:24,000 | 00:17:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:26,000 | 00:17:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:28,000 | 00:17:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:30,000 | 00:17:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:32,000 | 00:17:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:34,000 | 00:17:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:36,000 | 00:17:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:38,000 | 00:17:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:40,000 | 00:17:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:42,000 | 00:17:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:44,000 | 00:17:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:46,000 | 00:17:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:48,000 | 00:17:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:50,000 | 00:17:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:52,000 | 00:17:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:54,000 | 00:17:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:56,000 | 00:17:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:58,000 | 00:18:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:00,000 | 00:18:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:02,000 | 00:18:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:04,000 | 00:18:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:06,000 | 00:18:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:08,000 | 00:18:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:10,000 | 00:18:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:12,000 | 00:18:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:14,000 | 00:18:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:16,000 | 00:18:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:18,000 | 00:18:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:20,000 | 00:18:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:22,000 | 00:18:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:24,000 | 00:18:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:26,000 | 00:18:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:28,000 | 00:18:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:30,000 | 00:18:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:32,000 | 00:18:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:34,000 | 00:18:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:36,000 | 00:18:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:38,000 | 00:18:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:40,000 | 00:18:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:42,000 | 00:18:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:44,000 | 00:18:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:46,000 | 00:18:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:48,000 | 00:18:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:50,000 | 00:18:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:52,000 | 00:18:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:54,000 | 00:18:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:56,000 | 00:18:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:58,000 | 00:19:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:00,000 | 00:19:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:02,000 | 00:19:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:04,000 | 00:19:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:06,000 | 00:19:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:08,000 | 00:19:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:10,000 | 00:19:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:12,000 | 00:19:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:14,000 | 00:19:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:16,000 | 00:19:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:18,000 | 00:19:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:20,000 | 00:19:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:22,000 | 00:19:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:24,000 | 00:19:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:26,000 | 00:19:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:28,000 | 00:19:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:30,000 | 00:19:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:32,000 | 00:19:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:34,000 | 00:19:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:36,000 | 00:19:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:38,000 | 00:19:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:40,000 | 00:19:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:42,000 | 00:19:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:44,000 | 00:19:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:46,000 | 00:19:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:48,000 | 00:19:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:50,000 | 00:19:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:52,000 | 00:19:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:54,000 | 00:19:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:56,000 | 00:19:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:58,000 | 00:20:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:00,000 | 00:20:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:02,000 | 00:20:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:04,000 | 00:20:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:06,000 | 00:20:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:08,000 | 00:20:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:10,000 | 00:20:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:12,000 | 00:20:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:14,000 | 00:20:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:16,000 | 00:20:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:18,000 | 00:20:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:20,000 | 00:20:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:22,000 | 00:20:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:24,000 | 00:20:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:26,000 | 00:20:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:28,000 | 00:20:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:30,000 | 00:20:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:32,000 | 00:20:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:34,000 | 00:20:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:36,000 | 00:20:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:38,000 | 00:20:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:40,000 | 00:20:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:42,000 | 00:20:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:44,000 | 00:20:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:46,000 | 00:20:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:48,000 | 00:20:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:50,000 | 00:20:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:52,000 | 00:20:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:54,000 | 00:20:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:56,000 | 00:20:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:58,000 | 00:21:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:00,000 | 00:21:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:02,000 | 00:21:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:04,000 | 00:21:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:06,000 | 00:21:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:08,000 | 00:21:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:10,000 | 00:21:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:12,000 | 00:21:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:14,000 | 00:21:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:16,000 | 00:21:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:18,000 | 00:21:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:20,000 | 00:21:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:22,000 | 00:21:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:24,000 | 00:21:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:26,000 | 00:21:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:28,000 | 00:21:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:30,000 | 00:21:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:32,000 | 00:21:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:34,000 | 00:21:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:36,000 | 00:21:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:38,000 | 00:21:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:40,000 | 00:21:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:42,000 | 00:21:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:44,000 | 00:21:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:46,000 | 00:21:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:48,000 | 00:21:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:50,000 | 00:21:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:52,000 | 00:21:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:54,000 | 00:21:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:56,000 | 00:21:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:58,000 | 00:22:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:00,000 | 00:22:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:02,000 | 00:22:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:04,000 | 00:22:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:06,000 | 00:22:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:08,000 | 00:22:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:10,000 | 00:22:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:12,000 | 00:22:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:14,000 | 00:22:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:16,000 | 00:22:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:18,000 | 00:22:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:20,000 | 00:22:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:22,000 | 00:22:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:24,000 | 00:22:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:26,000 | 00:22:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:28,000 | 00:22:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:30,000 | 00:22:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:32,000 | 00:22:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:34,000 | 00:22:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:36,000 | 00:22:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:38,000 | 00:22:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:40,000 | 00:22:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:42,000 | 00:22:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:44,000 | 00:22:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:46,000 | 00:22:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:48,000 | 00:22:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:50,000 | 00:22:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:52,000 | 00:22:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:54,000 | 00:22:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:56,000 | 00:22:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:58,000 | 00:23:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:00,000 | 00:23:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:02,000 | 00:23:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:04,000 | 00:23:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:06,000 | 00:23:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:08,000 | 00:23:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:10,000 | 00:23:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:12,000 | 00:23:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:14,000 | 00:23:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:16,000 | 00:23:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:18,000 | 00:23:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:20,000 | 00:23:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:22,000 | 00:23:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:24,000 | 00:23:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:26,000 | 00:23:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:28,000 | 00:23:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:30,000 | 00:23:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:32,000 | 00:23:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:34,000 | 00:23:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:36,000 | 00:23:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:38,000 | 00:23:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:40,000 | 00:23:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:42,000 | 00:23:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:44,000 | 00:23:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:46,000 | 00:23:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:48,000 | 00:23:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:50,000 | 00:23:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:52,000 | 00:23:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:54,000 | 00:23:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:56,000 | 00:23:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:58,000 | 00:24:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:00,000 | 00:24:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:02,000 | 00:24:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:04,000 | 00:24:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:06,000 | 00:24:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:08,000 | 00:24:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:10,000 | 00:24:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:12,000 | 00:24:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:14,000 | 00:24:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:16,000 | 00:24:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:18,000 | 00:24:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:20,000 | 00:24:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:22,000 | 00:24:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:24,000 | 00:24:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:26,000 | 00:24:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:28,000 | 00:24:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:30,000 | 00:24:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:32,000 | 00:24:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:34,000 | 00:24:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:36,000 | 00:24:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:38,000 | 00:24:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:40,000 | 00:24:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:42,000 | 00:24:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:44,000 | 00:24:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:46,000 | 00:24:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:48,000 | 00:24:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:50,000 | 00:24:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:52,000 | 00:24:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:54,000 | 00:24:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:56,000 | 00:24:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:58,000 | 00:25:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:00,000 | 00:25:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:02,000 | 00:25:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:04,000 | 00:25:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:06,000 | 00:25:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:08,000 | 00:25:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:10,000 | 00:25:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:12,000 | 00:25:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:14,000 | 00:25:36,000 | 記者會 放過 |
| 00:25:44,000 | 00:25:48,400 | 7月30日星期四上午9時1分至12時38分 |
| 00:25:48,400 | 00:25:50,500 | 地點 紅樓202會議室 |
| 00:25:50,500 | 00:25:52,700 | 出席委員 蘇巧惠委員等12人 |
| 00:25:52,700 | 00:25:55,200 | 列席委員 詹天才委員等8人 |
| 00:25:55,200 | 00:25:57,300 | 請假委員張志倫委員1人 |
| 00:25:57,300 | 00:25:59,700 | 列席官員 原住民族委員會 |
| 00:25:59,700 | 00:26:02,100 | 主任委員 曾志永 暨相關人員 |
| 00:26:02,100 | 00:26:05,300 | 財團法人 原住民族文化事業基金會董事長 |
| 00:26:05,300 | 00:26:08,300 | 馬拉歐斯 主席 廖昭吉委員先祥 |
| 00:26:08,300 | 00:26:10,800 | 報告事項 1 宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| 00:26:10,800 | 00:26:11,800 | 決定 確定 |
| 00:26:12,100 | 00:26:14,600 | 2 邀請原住民族委員會主任委員 |
| 00:26:14,600 | 00:26:16,899 | 文化部國家通訊傳播委員會 |
| 00:26:16,899 | 00:26:19,700 | 財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會 |
| 00:26:19,700 | 00:26:22,399 | 就海陸南島語族航海計畫 |
| 00:26:22,399 | 00:26:26,500 | 國際原住民族傳統競技文化交流組與節目 |
| 00:26:26,500 | 00:26:28,800 | 世界原住民族傳統運動會 |
| 00:26:28,800 | 00:26:31,899 | 原住民族廣播電台 訊源傳輸 |
| 00:26:31,899 | 00:26:33,800 | 及監控系統設備建置 |
| 00:26:33,800 | 00:26:36,399 | 與相關基地台設置等重大計畫 |
| 00:26:36,399 | 00:26:38,200 | 執行進度 經費運用 |
| 00:26:38,200 | 00:26:39,700 | 及成果認定檢討 |
| 00:26:39,800 | 00:26:42,300 | 進行專題報告並被質詢 |
| 00:26:42,300 | 00:26:44,700 | 報告事項與討論事項合併詢答 |
| 00:26:44,700 | 00:26:46,600 | 原住民族委員會副主任委員 |
| 00:26:46,600 | 00:26:48,000 | 杜彰 梅莊報告 |
| 00:26:48,000 | 00:26:50,100 | 委員 蘇巧慧等16人質詢 |
| 00:26:50,100 | 00:26:53,500 | 分別由原住民族委員會副主任委員 |
| 00:26:53,500 | 00:26:55,900 | 杜彰 梅莊及相關人員 |
| 00:26:55,900 | 00:26:58,400 | 財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會 |
| 00:26:58,400 | 00:26:59,900 | 董事長馬拉歐斯 |
| 00:26:59,900 | 00:27:02,900 | 內政部地政司檢任視察張澤民 |
| 00:27:02,900 | 00:27:06,400 | 財政部國有財產署副署長羅玉華 |
| 00:27:06,400 | 00:27:08,400 | 農業部林業及自然保育署 |
| 00:27:08,600 | 00:27:12,600 | 農業部農村發展及水土保持署 |
| 00:27:12,600 | 00:27:15,600 | 檢認繼任工程司簡已答答復說明 |
| 00:27:15,600 | 00:27:16,600 | 決定 |
| 00:27:16,600 | 00:27:17,600 | 登記發言委員 |
| 00:27:17,600 | 00:27:18,600 | 除不在場者外 |
| 00:27:18,600 | 00:27:21,600 | 其餘均已發言完畢 巡答結束 |
| 00:27:21,600 | 00:27:24,600 | 委員 張志倫 許欣寧 林茜琪 |
| 00:27:24,600 | 00:27:27,600 | 所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報 |
| 00:27:27,600 | 00:27:29,600 | 書面質詢及未集答復部分 |
| 00:27:29,600 | 00:27:32,600 | 請相關機關與一周內另以書面答復 |
| 00:27:32,600 | 00:27:33,600 | 並複製本會 |
| 00:27:33,600 | 00:27:34,600 | 討論事項 |
| 00:27:34,600 | 00:27:36,600 | 1.原住民族身份法等11案 |
| 00:27:36,800 | 00:27:38,800 | 2.原住民族基本法等15案 |
| 00:27:38,800 | 00:27:41,800 | 決議均令定期繼續審查 |
| 00:27:41,800 | 00:27:42,800 | 通過零實體案兩案 |
| 00:27:42,800 | 00:27:44,800 | 宣讀完畢 |
| 00:27:47,800 | 00:27:49,800 | 好 現在進行討論事項 |
| 00:27:49,800 | 00:27:50,800 | 請宣讀 |
| 00:27:51,800 | 00:27:52,800 | 對不起 |
| 00:27:52,800 | 00:27:53,800 | 請問各位委員 |
| 00:27:53,800 | 00:27:55,800 | 上次會議一事入 |
| 00:27:55,800 | 00:27:57,800 | 有無錯誤或遺漏 |
| 00:27:57,800 | 00:27:58,800 | 沒有 |
| 00:27:58,800 | 00:28:00,800 | 好 那我們就確認一事入 |
| 00:28:00,800 | 00:28:02,800 | 那現在進行討論事項 |
| 00:28:02,800 | 00:28:03,800 | 請宣讀 |
| 00:28:03,800 | 00:28:04,800 | 討論事項 |
| 00:28:05,000 | 00:28:06,000 | 審查臺灣地區 |
| 00:28:06,000 | 00:28:08,000 | 與大陸地區人民關係條例 |
| 00:28:08,000 | 00:28:10,000 | 審查委員吳立華等18人 |
| 00:28:10,000 | 00:28:11,000 | 擬具臺灣地區 |
| 00:28:11,000 | 00:28:13,000 | 與大陸地區人民關係條例 |
| 00:28:13,000 | 00:28:16,000 | 增訂第93條至4條文草案案 |
| 00:28:16,000 | 00:28:19,000 | 審查委員林楚英等24人 |
| 00:28:19,000 | 00:28:20,000 | 擬具臺灣地區 |
| 00:28:20,000 | 00:28:22,000 | 與大陸地區人民關係條例 |
| 00:28:22,000 | 00:28:25,000 | 第18條至1條文修正草案案 |
| 00:28:25,000 | 00:28:27,000 | 審查委員吳立華等16人 |
| 00:28:27,000 | 00:28:29,000 | 擬具臺灣地區 |
| 00:28:29,000 | 00:28:31,000 | 與大陸地區人民關係條例 |
| 00:28:31,000 | 00:28:33,000 | 第69條條文修正草案案 |
| 00:28:33,200 | 00:28:35,200 | 審查委員李柏毅等20人 |
| 00:28:35,200 | 00:28:36,200 | 擬具臺灣地區 |
| 00:28:36,200 | 00:28:38,200 | 與大陸地區人民關係條例 |
| 00:28:38,200 | 00:28:41,200 | 第18條至1條文修正草案案 |
| 00:28:41,200 | 00:28:43,200 | 審查委員李柏毅等16人 |
| 00:28:43,200 | 00:28:44,200 | 擬具臺灣地區 |
| 00:28:44,200 | 00:28:46,200 | 與大陸地區人民關係條例 |
| 00:28:46,200 | 00:28:49,200 | 部分條文修正草案案 |
| 00:28:49,200 | 00:28:52,200 | 2審查香港澳門關係條例 |
| 00:28:52,200 | 00:28:54,200 | 繼續審查委員張鴻祿等20人 |
| 00:28:54,200 | 00:28:56,200 | 擬具香港澳門關係條例 |
| 00:28:56,200 | 00:28:58,200 | 第14條第14條至1 |
| 00:28:58,200 | 00:29:02,200 | 及第47條至1條文修正草案案 |
| 00:29:02,400 | 00:29:04,400 | 審查委員李柏毅等16人 |
| 00:29:04,400 | 00:29:06,400 | 擬具香港澳門關係條例 |
| 00:29:06,400 | 00:29:08,400 | 部分條文修正草案案 |
| 00:29:08,400 | 00:29:10,400 | 宣讀完畢 |
| 00:29:13,400 | 00:29:16,400 | 好 首先介紹在場委員及練習官員 |
| 00:29:16,400 | 00:29:18,400 | 張志倫委員 |
| 00:29:19,400 | 00:29:21,400 | 黃美慧委員 |
| 00:29:22,400 | 00:29:25,400 | 陸委會邱垂政主委 |
| 00:29:26,400 | 00:29:29,400 | 內政部移民署署長林弘恩 |
| 00:29:32,400 | 00:29:37,400 | 司法院法官吳元耀法官 |
| 00:29:37,400 | 00:29:40,400 | 法務部參事謝志明 |
| 00:29:43,400 | 00:29:46,400 | 國安局第三處副處長陳副處長 |
| 00:29:46,400 | 00:29:48,400 | 謝謝 |
| 00:29:54,400 | 00:29:56,400 | 本日議程所列討論事項 |
| 00:29:56,400 | 00:29:58,400 | 及兩個法案合併詢答 |
| 00:29:58,600 | 00:30:02,600 | 請提案委員說明提案要旨 |
| 00:30:02,800 | 00:30:05,800 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:05,800 | 00:30:08,800 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:08,800 | 00:30:11,800 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:11,800 | 00:30:14,800 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:14,800 | 00:30:17,800 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:17,800 | 00:30:20,800 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:20,800 | 00:30:22,800 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:22,800 | 00:30:25,800 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:25,800 | 00:30:27,800 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:27,800 | 00:30:29,800 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:29,800 | 00:30:31,800 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:32,000 | 00:30:34,000 | 請提案委員說明 |
| 00:30:38,000 | 00:30:41,000 | 我來說明一下今天我提出的 |
| 00:30:41,000 | 00:30:43,000 | 兩岸人民關係條例 |
| 00:30:43,000 | 00:30:47,000 | 以及港岸條例的提案說明 |
| 00:30:47,000 | 00:30:49,000 | 現行的兩岸條例 |
| 00:30:49,000 | 00:30:53,000 | 針對收容天數有150天的上限限制 |
| 00:30:53,000 | 00:30:56,000 | 就是暫雨收容15天 |
| 00:30:56,000 | 00:30:58,000 | 續雨收容45天 |
| 00:30:58,000 | 00:31:00,000 | 加上延長收容40天 |
| 00:31:00,200 | 00:31:02,200 | 延長收容期滿 |
| 00:31:02,200 | 00:31:04,200 | 可以申請延長收容50天 |
| 00:31:04,200 | 00:31:07,200 | 這樣加一加總共150天 |
| 00:31:07,200 | 00:31:11,200 | 那針對應該強制遣返而未遣返 |
| 00:31:11,200 | 00:31:17,200 | 一旦超過只能採收容替代處分 |
| 00:31:17,200 | 00:31:19,200 | 但是這段時間內 |
| 00:31:19,200 | 00:31:24,200 | 他們理應該在規定的場所內等待被遣返 |
| 00:31:24,200 | 00:31:27,200 | 卻發生的到處趴趴走的事情 |
| 00:31:27,400 | 00:31:30,400 | 所以甚至還在這段時間 |
| 00:31:30,400 | 00:31:32,400 | 接受各種媒體的採訪 |
| 00:31:32,400 | 00:31:35,400 | 就是極其混亂 |
| 00:31:35,400 | 00:31:40,400 | 所以我們跟陸委會討論了這一些內容之後 |
| 00:31:40,400 | 00:31:43,400 | 提出了這個修法版本裡面的內容包括 |
| 00:31:43,400 | 00:31:45,400 | 第一個 |
| 00:31:45,400 | 00:31:48,400 | 增訂違反收容替代處分的規定者 |
| 00:31:48,400 | 00:31:50,400 | 得重新收容 |
| 00:31:50,400 | 00:31:55,400 | 收容期間重新計算不受150天的收容限制 |
| 00:31:55,600 | 00:31:56,600 | 第二個 |
| 00:31:56,600 | 00:31:59,600 | 申請再延長收容的事由 |
| 00:31:59,600 | 00:32:03,600 | 增訂天然災害、疫情等不可抗力因素 |
| 00:32:03,600 | 00:32:12,600 | 以及大陸地區遲不接受反受收容人 |
| 00:32:12,600 | 00:32:13,600 | 第三 |
| 00:32:13,600 | 00:32:18,600 | 增訂入境面談及強制出境審查會時 |
| 00:32:18,600 | 00:32:21,600 | 得委任律師陪同出席 |
| 00:32:21,800 | 00:32:25,800 | 也就是增加相關人權的部分 |
| 00:32:25,800 | 00:32:26,800 | 第四 |
| 00:32:26,800 | 00:32:29,800 | 提高預期居留的罰緩 |
| 00:32:29,800 | 00:32:32,800 | 增訂協助隱匿的罰則 |
| 00:32:32,800 | 00:32:37,800 | 所以本次修法的目的是要補足現行兩岸人民 |
| 00:32:37,800 | 00:32:40,800 | 及港澳條例的不足 |
| 00:32:40,800 | 00:32:43,800 | 使相關規定可以比照移民法 |
| 00:32:43,800 | 00:32:47,800 | 保障中國籍人士來台權益的同時 |
| 00:32:48,000 | 00:32:53,000 | 我們也希望可以避免違法而因被遣返 |
| 00:32:53,000 | 00:32:56,000 | 但是利用收容的替代處分 |
| 00:32:56,000 | 00:32:58,000 | 持續破壞我國的法治 |
| 00:32:58,000 | 00:33:02,000 | 希望在這次的修法可以得到委員會 |
| 00:33:02,000 | 00:33:05,000 | 以及行政部門的支持 |
| 00:33:05,000 | 00:33:08,000 | 最後舉一個例 |
| 00:33:08,000 | 00:33:16,000 | 曾經偷渡進來台灣的中國軍方退役人士 |
| 00:33:16,200 | 00:33:22,200 | 他就是這個收容替代的國安漏洞 |
| 00:33:22,200 | 00:33:26,200 | 所以我們希望比照相關的這些法治 |
| 00:33:26,200 | 00:33:28,200 | 比照相關的這些移民法 |
| 00:33:28,200 | 00:33:30,200 | 可以補足國安的漏洞 |
| 00:33:30,200 | 00:33:32,200 | 謝謝以上說明 |
| 00:33:32,200 | 00:33:36,200 | 謝謝感謝蔡委員的提問 |
| 00:33:46,200 | 00:33:52,200 | 我們請陸委會邱垂政主委報告 |
| 00:34:01,200 | 00:34:06,200 | 主席各位委員各位女士各位先生大家早安 |
| 00:34:06,200 | 00:34:10,199 | 今天貴榮會召開審查 |
| 00:34:10,199 | 00:34:15,199 | 李柏毅等委員所提出來的兩岸關係條例 |
| 00:34:15,399 | 00:34:17,399 | 部分條文修正草案 |
| 00:34:17,399 | 00:34:21,399 | 及港澳關係條例部分條文修正草案 |
| 00:34:21,399 | 00:34:26,399 | 本人僅代表陸委會列席說明如下 |
| 00:34:26,399 | 00:34:32,399 | 第一有關為了與境外人士的人流管理的程序 |
| 00:34:32,399 | 00:34:36,399 | 罰則及相關的措施相銜接 |
| 00:34:36,399 | 00:34:44,399 | 我們提具兩岸條例及港澳條例部分條文修正草案 |
| 00:34:44,600 | 00:34:50,600 | 其中包括剛剛李委員李昭偉所說的強制出境跟收人的部分 |
| 00:34:50,600 | 00:34:54,600 | 首先我跟大家報告背景說明 |
| 00:34:54,600 | 00:34:58,600 | 這個112年6月28號 |
| 00:34:58,600 | 00:35:00,600 | 我們入出國移民法 |
| 00:35:00,600 | 00:35:06,600 | 已經有相關的包括符合人身自由的制度性保障 |
| 00:35:06,600 | 00:35:10,600 | 以及考量入出國這個移民相關的規定 |
| 00:35:10,600 | 00:35:12,600 | 已經修正公佈 |
| 00:35:12,799 | 00:35:15,799 | 為了與境外人士的人流管理程序 |
| 00:35:15,799 | 00:35:17,799 | 罰則相關的措施相銜接 |
| 00:35:17,799 | 00:35:21,799 | 其實陸委會也已經提出了 |
| 00:35:21,799 | 00:35:26,799 | 兩岸條例跟港澳關係條例修正草案 |
| 00:35:26,799 | 00:35:29,799 | 目前行政院已審查完整 |
| 00:35:29,799 | 00:35:33,799 | 但是內政部評估可能還有在修正 |
| 00:35:33,799 | 00:35:36,799 | 這個移民法相關的條文 |
| 00:35:36,799 | 00:35:39,799 | 經整個行政院整體部門考量 |
| 00:35:40,000 | 00:35:42,000 | 為了節省立法成本 |
| 00:35:42,000 | 00:35:46,000 | 那麼避免兩岸條例短時間反覆修法 |
| 00:35:46,000 | 00:35:50,000 | 所以我們等移民法修正草案確定後 |
| 00:35:50,000 | 00:35:56,000 | 並同這兩次的這個修法一次來完成這個修法 |
| 00:35:56,000 | 00:36:00,000 | 所以暫時沒有提出行政院版的部分 |
| 00:36:00,000 | 00:36:02,000 | 請大家能夠諒解 |
| 00:36:02,000 | 00:36:06,000 | 第二個有關於李博義 |
| 00:36:06,200 | 00:36:10,200 | 林楚英委員所提的兩岸條例修正草案 |
| 00:36:10,200 | 00:36:14,200 | 以及張宏祿委員所提的港澳條例修正草案 |
| 00:36:14,200 | 00:36:18,200 | 都是在保障當事人程序參與權 |
| 00:36:18,200 | 00:36:22,200 | 以及強化收容替代處分的安全管理 |
| 00:36:22,200 | 00:36:25,200 | 本會競表贊同 |
| 00:36:25,200 | 00:36:28,200 | 各委員所提的修正草案版本 |
| 00:36:28,200 | 00:36:30,200 | 增訂中國大陸人民 |
| 00:36:30,200 | 00:36:33,200 | 經許可入境後進行面談 |
| 00:36:33,399 | 00:36:36,399 | 得委任律師在場 |
| 00:36:36,399 | 00:36:40,399 | 增訂受強制出境處分的中國大陸人民 |
| 00:36:40,399 | 00:36:42,399 | 香港澳門居民 |
| 00:36:42,399 | 00:36:45,399 | 得委任律師及同意 |
| 00:36:45,399 | 00:36:49,399 | 陳述意見程序或是在審查會進行在場 |
| 00:36:49,399 | 00:36:51,399 | 那麼我們是贊同的 |
| 00:36:51,399 | 00:36:55,399 | 以及以天然災害疫情等不可抗命因素 |
| 00:36:55,399 | 00:36:58,399 | 作為向法院申請中國大陸人民 |
| 00:36:58,399 | 00:37:01,399 | 香港澳門居民延長收容自由 |
| 00:37:01,600 | 00:37:05,600 | 以及強化對替代收容處分的安全管理等 |
| 00:37:05,600 | 00:37:09,600 | 續參照現行移民法第65條 |
| 00:37:09,600 | 00:37:12,600 | 第36條、第38條之四 |
| 00:37:12,600 | 00:37:15,600 | 以及第38條之八等相關規定 |
| 00:37:15,600 | 00:37:17,600 | 如果修法通過的話 |
| 00:37:17,600 | 00:37:20,600 | 實務上執行對外人士 |
| 00:37:20,600 | 00:37:23,600 | 還有入港澳人士軍採一致的作法 |
| 00:37:23,600 | 00:37:26,600 | 本會也競表同意 |
| 00:37:26,600 | 00:37:29,600 | 至於將中國大陸相關機關 |
| 00:37:29,799 | 00:37:33,799 | 持不接訪替代收容人士 |
| 00:37:33,799 | 00:37:37,799 | 作為再延長收容自由一節 |
| 00:37:37,799 | 00:37:40,799 | 考量近年來陸方 |
| 00:37:40,799 | 00:37:44,799 | 有持不接訪置入入籍人士之情勢 |
| 00:37:44,799 | 00:37:51,799 | 且置台人員不乏是刑事犯、偷渡犯 |
| 00:37:51,799 | 00:37:54,799 | 內政部移民署依現行規定 |
| 00:37:54,799 | 00:37:57,799 | 其收容期限屆滿前 |
| 00:37:58,000 | 00:38:01,000 | 作出收容替代處分 |
| 00:38:01,000 | 00:38:05,000 | 將這類人交付於國內的慈善團體 |
| 00:38:05,000 | 00:38:09,000 | 他們需要定期向移民署報到 |
| 00:38:09,000 | 00:38:12,000 | 但是人身安全拘束的程度 |
| 00:38:12,000 | 00:38:15,000 | 不會像收容這個效果 |
| 00:38:15,000 | 00:38:19,000 | 恐怕會引起社會治安造成隱憂 |
| 00:38:19,000 | 00:38:24,000 | 為避免引發外界的疑慮 |
| 00:38:24,200 | 00:38:29,200 | 政府會支持委員所提的修法方向 |
| 00:38:29,200 | 00:38:31,200 | 小姐 |
| 00:38:31,200 | 00:38:36,200 | 我們考量境外外國人強制驅逐出國 |
| 00:38:36,200 | 00:38:40,200 | 或是收容的移民法相關條文 |
| 00:38:40,200 | 00:38:42,200 | 以及修法公布 |
| 00:38:42,200 | 00:38:44,200 | 為確保國家安全 |
| 00:38:44,200 | 00:38:47,200 | 以及使中國大陸人民、港澳居民 |
| 00:38:47,200 | 00:38:49,200 | 強制出境及收容的程序 |
| 00:38:49,200 | 00:38:53,200 | 都能夠有相同的正當法律程序 |
| 00:38:53,399 | 00:38:57,399 | 我們會更加保障我們競表支持 |
| 00:38:57,399 | 00:39:00,399 | 也謝謝各位委員所提的兩岸條例 |
| 00:39:00,399 | 00:39:04,399 | 跟港澳關係條例相關的修法草案 |
| 00:39:04,399 | 00:39:08,399 | 本人再次感謝大家的努力 |
| 00:39:08,399 | 00:39:10,399 | 那麼詳細條文的部分 |
| 00:39:10,399 | 00:39:13,399 | 等我們進入到逐條討論的時候 |
| 00:39:13,399 | 00:39:15,399 | 再跟委員進一步交換意見 |
| 00:39:15,399 | 00:39:17,399 | 謝謝各位委員 |
| 00:39:23,399 | 00:39:27,399 | 報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報 |
| 00:39:27,399 | 00:39:29,399 | 現在進行詢答 |
| 00:39:29,399 | 00:39:32,399 | 委員質詢前原例作幾點宣告 |
| 00:39:32,399 | 00:39:34,399 | 每位委員質詢時間 |
| 00:39:34,399 | 00:39:37,399 | 本會委員5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘 |
| 00:39:37,399 | 00:39:39,399 | 非本會委員5分鐘 |
| 00:39:39,399 | 00:39:42,399 | 上午10點30分截止質詢登記 |
| 00:39:42,399 | 00:39:44,399 | 今天處理法案 |
| 00:39:44,399 | 00:39:47,399 | 本次會議就不處理臨時提案 |
| 00:39:47,399 | 00:39:49,399 | 請問各位委員有沒有意見 |
| 00:39:49,399 | 00:39:50,399 | 沒有 |
| 00:39:50,399 | 00:39:52,399 | 好謝謝 |
| 00:39:52,600 | 00:39:54,600 | 接下來我們進行詢答 |
| 00:39:54,600 | 00:39:57,600 | 請登記第一位的張志倫委員質詢 |
| 00:40:04,600 | 00:40:06,600 | 好謝謝主席 |
| 00:40:06,600 | 00:40:08,600 | 各位委員各位官員早 |
| 00:40:08,600 | 00:40:10,600 | 有請邱垂政主委 |
| 00:40:14,600 | 00:40:15,600 | 張委員早 |
| 00:40:15,600 | 00:40:19,600 | 昨天早今天是陸委會的這個詢答 |
| 00:40:19,799 | 00:40:22,799 | 首先要跟主委討論 |
| 00:40:22,799 | 00:40:26,799 | 就是先前有關於台東縣長姚慶林縣長 |
| 00:40:26,799 | 00:40:28,799 | 因為為了農民的生計 |
| 00:40:28,799 | 00:40:32,799 | 預錄影片在海峽論壇推廣農產品 |
| 00:40:32,799 | 00:40:35,799 | 那我還記得當時陸委會高調宣稱 |
| 00:40:35,799 | 00:40:37,799 | 他違反兩岸關係條例 |
| 00:40:37,799 | 00:40:38,799 | 第三三條之一 |
| 00:40:38,799 | 00:40:40,799 | 與中國黨政軍合作 |
| 00:40:40,799 | 00:40:43,799 | 那必須啟動行政調查 |
| 00:40:43,799 | 00:40:46,799 | 那後來近日你們有坦言 |
| 00:40:46,799 | 00:40:47,799 | 是不是說 |
| 00:40:48,000 | 00:40:50,000 | 這個基本上姚縣長的發言 |
| 00:40:50,000 | 00:40:53,000 | 沒有牽涉到兩岸重大政治議題 |
| 00:40:53,000 | 00:40:57,000 | 所以你們現在處理的狀況是如何 |
| 00:40:57,000 | 00:40:59,000 | 是不是可以說明一下 |
| 00:40:59,000 | 00:41:00,000 | 是 |
| 00:41:00,000 | 00:41:04,000 | 公文報告有關於姚慶林縣長 |
| 00:41:04,000 | 00:41:07,000 | 這個以錄影的方式 |
| 00:41:07,000 | 00:41:09,000 | 在海峽論壇 |
| 00:41:09,000 | 00:41:11,000 | 宣稱說法 |
| 00:41:11,000 | 00:41:14,000 | 那這部分我們有請內政部 |
| 00:41:14,000 | 00:41:17,000 | 進行必要的行政的了解 |
| 00:41:17,200 | 00:41:22,200 | 那目前他這個相關行政的一些報告 |
| 00:41:22,200 | 00:41:26,200 | 那麼還在彙整其他相關單位當中 |
| 00:41:26,200 | 00:41:29,200 | 我們還沒有做出最後的決定 |
| 00:41:29,200 | 00:41:31,200 | 那當時你們不是已經跟媒體 |
| 00:41:31,200 | 00:41:34,200 | 坦承言說沒有涉嫌 |
| 00:41:34,200 | 00:41:36,200 | 牽涉到兩岸重大政治議題嗎 |
| 00:41:36,200 | 00:41:38,200 | 你們有沒有這樣的回應 |
| 00:41:38,200 | 00:41:40,200 | 這個部分 |
| 00:41:40,200 | 00:41:43,200 | 我們應該還沒有做出決定 |
| 00:41:43,200 | 00:41:46,200 | 那我們會再有一個會商 |
| 00:41:46,399 | 00:41:47,399 | 再確定 |
| 00:41:47,399 | 00:41:49,399 | 如果有進一步的說法 |
| 00:41:49,399 | 00:41:51,399 | 我們會對外說明 |
| 00:41:51,399 | 00:41:53,399 | 還沒有確定大概什麼時候會確定 |
| 00:41:53,399 | 00:41:55,399 | 我想應該很快 |
| 00:41:55,399 | 00:42:00,399 | 因為我們現在在彙整相關的資訊 |
| 00:42:00,399 | 00:42:03,399 | 然後我們再做最後的決定 |
| 00:42:03,399 | 00:42:05,399 | 那我是不是也可以方便請教陸委會 |
| 00:42:05,399 | 00:42:08,399 | 今年針對民間交流案件 |
| 00:42:08,399 | 00:42:12,399 | 有真正有裁罰得到的案件大概有幾件 |
| 00:42:12,399 | 00:42:14,399 | 裁罰的案件 |
| 00:42:14,600 | 00:42:19,600 | 我們要看一下資料再回覆給委員 |
| 00:42:19,600 | 00:42:21,600 | 還是事後再提供相關資訊給委員 |
| 00:42:21,600 | 00:42:23,600 | 事後再回覆給我們好了 |
| 00:42:23,600 | 00:42:24,600 | 因為這跟我等一下 |
| 00:42:24,600 | 00:42:26,600 | 現在要問的問題有關 |
| 00:42:26,600 | 00:42:29,600 | 大家也看到最近監察院的監委有報告 |
| 00:42:29,600 | 00:42:32,600 | 就是有關於現在我們很多 |
| 00:42:32,600 | 00:42:37,600 | 兩岸青年的一些交流團的一個部分 |
| 00:42:37,600 | 00:42:39,600 | 監察院有指出 |
| 00:42:39,600 | 00:42:41,600 | 針對他的報告寫說 |
| 00:42:41,799 | 00:42:44,799 | 最近就是認為我們不管是教育部內政部 |
| 00:42:44,799 | 00:42:48,799 | 或陸委會針對兩岸學生的這個交流 |
| 00:42:48,799 | 00:42:50,799 | 沒有一個明確的 |
| 00:42:50,799 | 00:42:55,799 | 針對有些違反招攬規定的部分 |
| 00:42:55,799 | 00:42:57,799 | 沒有做一些處分 |
| 00:42:57,799 | 00:42:59,799 | 那我們看到最近這幾年 |
| 00:42:59,799 | 00:43:02,799 | 我們兩岸學生的交流非常的多 |
| 00:43:02,799 | 00:43:04,799 | 尤其台灣不管是大學 |
| 00:43:04,799 | 00:43:07,799 | 高中或者是國中國小的人數 |
| 00:43:07,799 | 00:43:09,799 | 到大陸交流的人數越來越多 |
| 00:43:10,000 | 00:43:14,000 | 尤其是大學生大概一年大概是5000多人 |
| 00:43:14,000 | 00:43:16,000 | 那我想要請教一下 |
| 00:43:16,000 | 00:43:19,000 | 針對目前陸委會有沒有掌握 |
| 00:43:19,000 | 00:43:22,000 | 到底有沒有多少的人數是 |
| 00:43:22,000 | 00:43:24,000 | 跟教育部來掌握 |
| 00:43:24,000 | 00:43:26,000 | 到底多少是未通報私下組團的數量 |
| 00:43:26,000 | 00:43:28,000 | 到底是多少有統計過了嗎 |
| 00:43:28,000 | 00:43:31,000 | 是跟委員報告 |
| 00:43:31,000 | 00:43:33,000 | 我們感謝我們監察委員 |
| 00:43:33,000 | 00:43:35,000 | 幫我們做的這些調查報告 |
| 00:43:35,000 | 00:43:39,000 | 這裡面講過去各部會有互相推諉 |
| 00:43:39,200 | 00:43:41,200 | 這可能是事實 |
| 00:43:41,200 | 00:43:43,200 | 但是這幾年 |
| 00:43:43,200 | 00:43:46,200 | 我想我們跟各部會 |
| 00:43:46,200 | 00:43:48,200 | 不再有這種情形 |
| 00:43:48,200 | 00:43:51,200 | 都是共同的分工合作 |
| 00:43:51,200 | 00:43:55,200 | 那麼積極的跟各個學校 |
| 00:43:55,200 | 00:43:59,200 | 說明這個附中國大陸交流 |
| 00:43:59,200 | 00:44:03,200 | 要向教育部所建立的 |
| 00:44:03,200 | 00:44:06,200 | 有關兩岸交流活動 |
| 00:44:06,200 | 00:44:08,200 | 登錄的這個平台 |
| 00:44:08,399 | 00:44:09,399 | 來匯報 |
| 00:44:09,399 | 00:44:11,399 | 所以各部會之間 |
| 00:44:11,399 | 00:44:13,399 | 目前是合作無間分工合作 |
| 00:44:13,399 | 00:44:16,399 | 並沒有相互推諉的情形 |
| 00:44:16,399 | 00:44:18,399 | 我們會講一下 |
| 00:44:18,399 | 00:44:20,399 | 到底我們比如說 |
| 00:44:20,399 | 00:44:22,399 | 現在到底有多少的學生 |
| 00:44:22,399 | 00:44:24,399 | 或者是多少的學校 |
| 00:44:24,399 | 00:44:26,399 | 沒有通報的數量你們有掌握嗎 |
| 00:44:26,399 | 00:44:28,399 | 目前這幾年 |
| 00:44:28,399 | 00:44:31,399 | 這幾年由於教育部主管機關 |
| 00:44:31,399 | 00:44:33,399 | 他比較常去做宣導 |
| 00:44:33,399 | 00:44:35,399 | 現在通報量比較多了 |
| 00:44:35,399 | 00:44:37,399 | 也比較正常 |
| 00:44:37,600 | 00:44:39,600 | 其實我要跟委員報告 |
| 00:44:39,600 | 00:44:42,600 | 我們上網去 |
| 00:44:42,600 | 00:44:45,600 | 他其實會給我們要去的學生 |
| 00:44:45,600 | 00:44:47,600 | 老師學校 |
| 00:44:47,600 | 00:44:49,600 | 都有很清楚的一個檢核作業 |
| 00:44:49,600 | 00:44:51,600 | 對於風險的檢核作業 |
| 00:44:51,600 | 00:44:53,600 | 所以目前來講 |
| 00:44:53,600 | 00:44:55,600 | 沒有通報的數量是少的 |
| 00:44:55,600 | 00:44:56,600 | 會減少很多 |
| 00:44:56,600 | 00:44:57,600 | 目前還在減少 |
| 00:44:57,600 | 00:44:59,600 | 那我想要了解 |
| 00:44:59,600 | 00:45:00,600 | 因為陸委會說 |
| 00:45:00,600 | 00:45:02,600 | 要對這樣的事情去做懲處 |
| 00:45:02,600 | 00:45:03,600 | 那我想說 |
| 00:45:03,600 | 00:45:04,600 | 如果還是有 |
| 00:45:04,600 | 00:45:06,600 | 沒有去通報的學校 |
| 00:45:06,799 | 00:45:07,799 | 學校來去做通報 |
| 00:45:07,799 | 00:45:09,799 | 那如果學校沒有通報的話 |
| 00:45:09,799 | 00:45:10,799 | 懲處的對象到底是學校 |
| 00:45:10,799 | 00:45:11,799 | 還是帶隊的老師 |
| 00:45:11,799 | 00:45:13,799 | 甚至是當然的民間團體 |
| 00:45:13,799 | 00:45:15,799 | 會不會是無辜的學生 |
| 00:45:15,799 | 00:45:16,799 | 我想這個是 |
| 00:45:16,799 | 00:45:18,799 | 教育部主管機關 |
| 00:45:18,799 | 00:45:20,799 | 我們尊重教育部主管機關 |
| 00:45:20,799 | 00:45:22,799 | 那至於有違反 |
| 00:45:22,799 | 00:45:24,799 | 兩岸條例的相關的情形 |
| 00:45:24,799 | 00:45:26,799 | 我們會協助教育部 |
| 00:45:26,799 | 00:45:28,799 | 來做進一步的認證 |
| 00:45:28,799 | 00:45:30,799 | 我這邊要特別跟你拜託的是 |
| 00:45:30,799 | 00:45:32,799 | 因為今天教育部應該沒有來 |
| 00:45:32,799 | 00:45:33,799 | 所以我想說學生 |
| 00:45:33,799 | 00:45:34,799 | 他們只是單純 |
| 00:45:35,000 | 00:45:36,000 | 就是去玩 |
| 00:45:36,000 | 00:45:38,000 | 所以我希望說學生的部分 |
| 00:45:38,000 | 00:45:40,000 | 不應該影響到他的受教權 |
| 00:45:40,000 | 00:45:41,000 | 不應該被罰 |
| 00:45:41,000 | 00:45:43,000 | 所以我要拜託 |
| 00:45:43,000 | 00:45:45,000 | 這個主委這邊 |
| 00:45:45,000 | 00:45:47,000 | 也可以幫忙跟教育部說明一下 |
| 00:45:47,000 | 00:45:49,000 | 那陸委會在這個情況當中 |
| 00:45:49,000 | 00:45:51,000 | 他有說要推動 |
| 00:45:51,000 | 00:45:53,000 | 大陸的試讀教育 |
| 00:45:53,000 | 00:45:54,000 | 那大陸的試讀教育 |
| 00:45:54,000 | 00:45:55,000 | 它的範圍多大 |
| 00:45:55,000 | 00:45:57,000 | 那要如何做教材 |
| 00:45:57,000 | 00:45:59,000 | 以及審定的標準為何 |
| 00:45:59,000 | 00:46:01,000 | 是不是可以請主委分享 |
| 00:46:01,000 | 00:46:02,000 | 是 謝謝委員 |
| 00:46:02,000 | 00:46:03,000 | 這也是我們陸委會 |
| 00:46:03,000 | 00:46:04,000 | 在努力的地方 |
| 00:46:04,200 | 00:46:06,200 | 我們希望我們的學生老師 |
| 00:46:06,200 | 00:46:08,200 | 或是學校 |
| 00:46:08,200 | 00:46:10,200 | 跟中國大陸進行的 |
| 00:46:10,200 | 00:46:12,200 | 健康有序的交流 |
| 00:46:12,200 | 00:46:14,200 | 當然要再對等尊嚴 |
| 00:46:14,200 | 00:46:16,200 | 之外我們也希望 |
| 00:46:16,200 | 00:46:18,200 | 我們附錄教育的學生 |
| 00:46:18,200 | 00:46:20,200 | 讓他了解中國大陸 |
| 00:46:20,200 | 00:46:22,200 | 就去之前要先讀完 |
| 00:46:22,200 | 00:46:24,200 | 這筆試讀教育 |
| 00:46:24,200 | 00:46:26,200 | 然後才可以去大陸做交流 |
| 00:46:26,200 | 00:46:28,200 | 會比較適合 |
| 00:46:28,200 | 00:46:30,200 | 不要說人家就是 |
| 00:46:30,200 | 00:46:32,200 | 大家去看統戰行程 |
| 00:46:32,200 | 00:46:33,200 | 統戰的愛國基地 |
| 00:46:33,399 | 00:46:35,399 | 或是紅色的這些 |
| 00:46:35,399 | 00:46:37,399 | 是一個線上課程嗎 |
| 00:46:37,399 | 00:46:39,399 | 還是紙本的課程 |
| 00:46:39,399 | 00:46:41,399 | 我們有線上的 |
| 00:46:41,399 | 00:46:43,399 | 我們有紙本的 |
| 00:46:43,399 | 00:46:45,399 | 我們有實際教授的課程 |
| 00:46:45,399 | 00:46:47,399 | 一定要讀完以後才能去大陸交流嗎 |
| 00:46:47,399 | 00:46:49,399 | 他只要有上過這些課程就好 |
| 00:46:49,399 | 00:46:51,399 | 很多都是在他們學校 |
| 00:46:51,399 | 00:46:53,399 | 那我請問一下主委 |
| 00:46:53,399 | 00:46:55,399 | 這個試讀教育的教材 |
| 00:46:55,399 | 00:46:57,399 | 什麼時候會出 |
| 00:46:57,399 | 00:46:59,399 | 我想教育部跟相關的 |
| 00:46:59,399 | 00:47:01,399 | 這些老師都有很多的教材 |
| 00:47:01,600 | 00:47:03,600 | 現在已經有了嗎 |
| 00:47:03,600 | 00:47:05,600 | 都陸陸續續有 |
| 00:47:05,600 | 00:47:07,600 | 都是專業的教材 |
| 00:47:07,600 | 00:47:09,600 | 我們都尊重這些老師 |
| 00:47:09,600 | 00:47:11,600 | 他們專業的課程 |
| 00:47:11,600 | 00:47:13,600 | 我們都尊重他們 |
| 00:47:13,600 | 00:47:15,600 | 那希望說陸委會 |
| 00:47:15,600 | 00:47:17,600 | 針對整個試讀教材 |
| 00:47:17,600 | 00:47:19,600 | 要先去了解 |
| 00:47:19,600 | 00:47:21,600 | 執行的情況也希望說陸委會可以先去了解一下 |
| 00:47:21,600 | 00:47:23,600 | 那最後一個問題 |
| 00:47:23,600 | 00:47:25,600 | 針對最近我相信陸委會 |
| 00:47:25,600 | 00:47:27,600 | 也跟很多的 |
| 00:47:27,600 | 00:47:29,600 | 這個大陸的台商 |
| 00:47:29,799 | 00:47:31,799 | 有去做討論 |
| 00:47:31,799 | 00:47:33,799 | 針對兩岸旅遊 |
| 00:47:33,799 | 00:47:35,799 | 或是執行包機的問題 |
| 00:47:35,799 | 00:47:37,799 | 來去做討論 |
| 00:47:37,799 | 00:47:39,799 | 我想要問一下主委 |
| 00:47:39,799 | 00:47:41,799 | 目前我們現在台灣 |
| 00:47:41,799 | 00:47:43,799 | 跟大陸執行的班機 |
| 00:47:43,799 | 00:47:45,799 | 大概今年是執行的數量是 |
| 00:47:45,799 | 00:47:47,799 | 28個 |
| 00:47:47,799 | 00:47:49,799 | 的執行的地點對吧 |
| 00:47:49,799 | 00:47:51,799 | 目前的 |
| 00:47:51,799 | 00:47:53,799 | 我們在跟 |
| 00:47:53,799 | 00:47:55,799 | 中國大陸的航點 |
| 00:47:55,799 | 00:47:57,799 | 目前執行的航點是15個 |
| 00:47:58,000 | 00:48:00,000 | 只有15個 |
| 00:48:00,000 | 00:48:02,000 | 然後包機的航點有13個 |
| 00:48:02,000 | 00:48:04,000 | 所以加起來執行有15個 |
| 00:48:04,000 | 00:48:06,000 | 包機13個總共28個 |
| 00:48:06,000 | 00:48:08,000 | 主委你知道過去 |
| 00:48:08,000 | 00:48:10,000 | 兩岸執行 |
| 00:48:10,000 | 00:48:12,000 | 包機最多的數量 |
| 00:48:12,000 | 00:48:14,000 | 是多少個嗎 |
| 00:48:14,000 | 00:48:16,000 | 最多時候是多少個 |
| 00:48:16,000 | 00:48:18,000 | 航點是嗎 |
| 00:48:18,000 | 00:48:20,000 | 曾經快到60個 |
| 00:48:20,000 | 00:48:22,000 | 61個 |
| 00:48:22,000 | 00:48:24,000 | 主委非常清楚 |
| 00:48:24,000 | 00:48:26,000 | 所以的確我要跟主委報告 |
| 00:48:26,200 | 00:48:28,200 | 平凡交流的時候 |
| 00:48:28,200 | 00:48:30,200 | 也可能人數跟現在差不多的時候 |
| 00:48:30,200 | 00:48:31,200 | 是61個 |
| 00:48:31,200 | 00:48:33,200 | 現在降低到28個 |
| 00:48:33,200 | 00:48:35,200 | 所以造成兩岸很多 |
| 00:48:35,200 | 00:48:37,200 | 往來上不管是台商 |
| 00:48:37,200 | 00:48:39,200 | 探親旅遊方面的 |
| 00:48:39,200 | 00:48:41,200 | 不變所以我相信 |
| 00:48:41,200 | 00:48:43,200 | 還會有這個公會來跟 |
| 00:48:43,200 | 00:48:45,200 | 主委拜託是不是要 |
| 00:48:45,200 | 00:48:47,200 | 新開新增執行 |
| 00:48:47,200 | 00:48:49,200 | 包機點那我想 |
| 00:48:49,200 | 00:48:51,200 | 請教說主委有沒有聽到 |
| 00:48:51,200 | 00:48:53,200 | 人民的心聲那你未來應該 |
| 00:48:53,200 | 00:48:55,200 | 有沒有考慮要怎麼去增加執行 |
| 00:48:55,399 | 00:48:57,399 | 跟包機的點有沒有一個 |
| 00:48:57,399 | 00:48:59,399 | 基層的規定謝謝委員 |
| 00:48:59,399 | 00:49:01,399 | 我們有請 |
| 00:49:01,399 | 00:49:03,399 | 我們民航局跟各航空業者 |
| 00:49:03,399 | 00:49:05,399 | 目前是航空業者 |
| 00:49:05,399 | 00:49:07,399 | 並沒有新的這些 |
| 00:49:07,399 | 00:49:09,399 | 運力提出來 |
| 00:49:09,399 | 00:49:11,399 | 那雖然我們有聽到 |
| 00:49:11,399 | 00:49:13,399 | 許多的 |
| 00:49:13,399 | 00:49:15,399 | 台商有這個呼聲 |
| 00:49:15,399 | 00:49:17,399 | 但是我們也瞭解到 |
| 00:49:17,399 | 00:49:19,399 | 像我們不是規定的 |
| 00:49:19,399 | 00:49:21,399 | 13個包機的航點 |
| 00:49:21,399 | 00:49:23,399 | 其實目前為止 |
| 00:49:23,400 | 00:49:25,400 | 民航局都沒有收到相關的 |
| 00:49:25,400 | 00:49:27,400 | 申請 |
| 00:49:27,400 | 00:49:29,400 | 比如說我們現在的運力 |
| 00:49:29,400 | 00:49:31,400 | 那當然我們的業者 |
| 00:49:31,400 | 00:49:33,400 | 他提供的比較慢 |
| 00:49:33,400 | 00:49:35,400 | 由於他新的這些機組 |
| 00:49:35,400 | 00:49:37,400 | 都是非其他國際 |
| 00:49:37,400 | 00:49:39,400 | 那我們也是希望 |
| 00:49:39,400 | 00:49:41,400 | 真的有運力的話 |
| 00:49:41,400 | 00:49:43,400 | 是不是可以先申請包機 |
| 00:49:43,400 | 00:49:45,400 | 那另外我們也有講到重點 |
| 00:49:45,400 | 00:49:47,400 | 包機你未來的方法多久 |
| 00:49:47,400 | 00:49:49,400 | 會包一次機平凡 |
| 00:49:49,400 | 00:49:51,400 | 還要我們的運作 |
| 00:49:51,400 | 00:49:53,400 | 跟委員報告我們就按照市場的需求 |
| 00:49:53,400 | 00:49:55,400 | 那大概什麼時候 |
| 00:49:55,400 | 00:49:57,400 | 我想主管機關會來做 |
| 00:49:57,400 | 00:49:59,400 | 進一步的這個評估 |
| 00:49:59,400 | 00:50:01,400 | 那現在都還沒有送來 |
| 00:50:01,400 | 00:50:03,400 | 如果有包機需求的 |
| 00:50:03,400 | 00:50:05,400 | 業者也可以 |
| 00:50:05,400 | 00:50:07,400 | 向我們民航主管機關提出來 |
| 00:50:07,400 | 00:50:09,400 | 另外 |
| 00:50:09,400 | 00:50:11,400 | 跟委員報告我們自己的直航業者 |
| 00:50:11,400 | 00:50:13,400 | 也一直申請上海 |
| 00:50:13,400 | 00:50:15,400 | 有大概十幾班 |
| 00:50:15,400 | 00:50:17,400 | 十三班的這個上海 |
| 00:50:17,400 | 00:50:19,400 | 這個機場都沒有同意 |
| 00:50:19,400 | 00:50:21,400 | 這也造成我們輸運上變得很擠 |
| 00:50:21,400 | 00:50:23,400 | 我們也希望 |
| 00:50:23,400 | 00:50:25,400 | 對岸也要同意 |
| 00:50:25,400 | 00:50:27,400 | 我們直航的申請 |
| 00:50:27,400 | 00:50:29,400 | 主委跟主委報告 |
| 00:50:29,400 | 00:50:31,400 | 就是因為這個兩岸的直航的班機 |
| 00:50:31,400 | 00:50:33,400 | 跟包機的班機 |
| 00:50:33,400 | 00:50:35,400 | 跟地點越來越少 |
| 00:50:35,400 | 00:50:37,400 | 導致現在很多我們的 |
| 00:50:37,400 | 00:50:39,400 | 要通行的業者都經過金門 |
| 00:50:39,400 | 00:50:41,400 | 小三通來前往大陸 |
| 00:50:41,400 | 00:50:43,400 | 我相信主委知道這件事情 |
| 00:50:43,400 | 00:50:45,400 | 導致現在金門機場常常大塞車 |
| 00:50:45,400 | 00:50:47,400 | 客滿 |
| 00:50:47,400 | 00:50:49,400 | 各個客滿 |
| 00:50:49,400 | 00:50:51,400 | 還是拜託主委 |
| 00:50:51,400 | 00:50:53,400 | 針對民眾的遷徙自由 |
| 00:50:53,400 | 00:50:55,400 | 跟未來不要讓金門的這個 |
| 00:50:55,400 | 00:50:57,400 | 機場這麼嚴重的塞車 |
| 00:50:57,400 | 00:50:59,400 | 拜託主委這邊 |
| 00:50:59,400 | 00:51:01,400 | 針對 |
| 00:51:01,400 | 00:51:03,400 | 是不是可以開放直航 |
| 00:51:03,400 | 00:51:05,400 | 讓民眾方便探親或旅遊 |
| 00:51:05,400 | 00:51:07,400 | 等等這個部分 |
| 00:51:07,400 | 00:51:09,400 | 還是希望趕快盡快做出決定 |
| 00:51:09,400 | 00:51:11,400 | 跟業者來去做溝通協調 |
| 00:51:11,400 | 00:51:13,400 | 拜託主委謝謝 |
| 00:51:13,400 | 00:51:15,400 | 謝謝張委員 |
| 00:51:15,400 | 00:51:17,400 | 謝謝張志倫委員 |
| 00:51:17,400 | 00:51:19,400 | 接下來我們請許宗信委員 |
| 00:51:31,400 | 00:51:33,400 | 我們有請陸委會邱主委 |
| 00:51:37,400 | 00:51:39,400 | 許委員好 |
| 00:51:41,400 | 00:51:43,400 | 今天我們修 |
| 00:51:43,400 | 00:51:45,400 | 這個兩岸關係條例 |
| 00:51:45,400 | 00:51:47,400 | 93條之4 |
| 00:51:47,400 | 00:51:49,400 | 所以我針對這個問題 |
| 00:51:49,400 | 00:51:51,400 | 要來跟各位 |
| 00:51:51,400 | 00:51:53,400 | 探討一個 |
| 00:51:53,400 | 00:51:55,400 | 陸配權力保障的問題 |
| 00:51:55,400 | 00:51:57,400 | 所以它會比較難 |
| 00:51:57,400 | 00:51:59,400 | 不是要故意刁難主委 |
| 00:51:59,400 | 00:52:01,400 | 而是要讓我們的法制 |
| 00:52:01,400 | 00:52:03,400 | 更精進 |
| 00:52:03,400 | 00:52:05,400 | 我國人民 |
| 00:52:05,400 | 00:52:07,400 | 登記不動產 |
| 00:52:07,400 | 00:52:09,400 | 現在 |
| 00:52:09,400 | 00:52:11,400 | 根據我國法院多數的判決 |
| 00:52:11,400 | 00:52:13,400 | 如果建民登記的話 |
| 00:52:13,400 | 00:52:15,400 | 原則上 |
| 00:52:15,400 | 00:52:17,400 | 會是被允許的 |
| 00:52:17,400 | 00:52:19,400 | 但是原住民 |
| 00:52:19,400 | 00:52:21,400 | 的土地 |
| 00:52:21,400 | 00:52:23,400 | 如果非原住民 |
| 00:52:23,400 | 00:52:25,400 | 透過原住民來建民登記 |
| 00:52:25,400 | 00:52:27,400 | 那這個我們法院判決 |
| 00:52:27,400 | 00:52:29,400 | 是無效 |
| 00:52:29,400 | 00:52:31,400 | 這個多數的見解現在是這樣 |
| 00:52:31,400 | 00:52:33,400 | 那我們現在 |
| 00:52:33,400 | 00:52:35,400 | 在兩岸關係條例 |
| 00:52:35,400 | 00:52:37,400 | 69條 |
| 00:52:37,400 | 00:52:39,400 | 有規定 |
| 00:52:39,400 | 00:52:41,400 | 也就是說 |
| 00:52:43,400 | 00:52:45,400 | 大陸地區人民 |
| 00:52:45,400 | 00:52:47,400 | 不得取得 |
| 00:52:47,400 | 00:52:49,400 | 設定移轉 |
| 00:52:49,400 | 00:52:51,400 | 不動產 |
| 00:52:51,400 | 00:52:53,400 | 以及其他投資行為 |
| 00:52:53,400 | 00:52:55,400 | 主委你不覺得 |
| 00:52:55,400 | 00:52:57,400 | 這個其他投資行為 |
| 00:52:57,400 | 00:52:59,400 | 概念非常廣嗎 |
| 00:52:59,400 | 00:53:01,400 | 變成我現在用一個例子來 |
| 00:53:01,400 | 00:53:03,400 | 請教主委 |
| 00:53:03,400 | 00:53:05,400 | 一個陸配嫁過來台灣 |
| 00:53:05,400 | 00:53:07,400 | 3年還沒有取得身份證之前 |
| 00:53:07,400 | 00:53:09,400 | 他去買股票 |
| 00:53:09,400 | 00:53:11,400 | 是不是這裡的 |
| 00:53:11,400 | 00:53:13,400 | 投資行為 |
| 00:53:13,400 | 00:53:15,400 | 是 |
| 00:53:15,400 | 00:53:17,400 | 所以這個很顯然太廣 |
| 00:53:17,400 | 00:53:19,400 | 那麼兩岸 |
| 00:53:19,400 | 00:53:21,400 | 人民關係條例這樣一個 |
| 00:53:21,400 | 00:53:23,400 | 69條禁止規定 |
| 00:53:25,400 | 00:53:27,400 | 它的效果 |
| 00:53:27,400 | 00:53:29,400 | 的確不是很明確 |
| 00:53:29,400 | 00:53:31,400 | 說他如果違反這個規定 |
| 00:53:31,400 | 00:53:33,400 | 去取得不動產 |
| 00:53:33,400 | 00:53:35,400 | 他是否是無效 |
| 00:53:35,400 | 00:53:37,400 | 包委員 |
| 00:53:37,400 | 00:53:39,400 | 要由我們主管機關 |
| 00:53:39,400 | 00:53:41,400 | 許可 |
| 00:53:41,400 | 00:53:43,400 | 如果沒有許可的話 |
| 00:53:43,400 | 00:53:45,400 | 是否無效 |
| 00:53:45,400 | 00:53:47,400 | 我們根據民法 |
| 00:53:47,400 | 00:53:49,400 | 71條 |
| 00:53:49,400 | 00:53:51,400 | 違反法律禁止之規定 |
| 00:53:51,400 | 00:53:53,400 | 法律行為無效 |
| 00:53:53,400 | 00:53:55,400 | 根據71條 |
| 00:53:55,400 | 00:53:57,400 | 其實可以得到無效的結果 |
| 00:53:57,400 | 00:53:59,400 | 只是不這麼明確 |
| 00:53:59,400 | 00:54:01,400 | 那我們現在 |
| 00:54:01,400 | 00:54:03,400 | 兩岸條例94條 |
| 00:54:03,400 | 00:54:05,400 | 這一個 |
| 00:54:05,400 | 00:54:07,400 | 知識的修正案 |
| 00:54:07,400 | 00:54:09,400 | 修正草案 |
| 00:54:11,400 | 00:54:15,400 | 我們把它明確的講無效 |
| 00:54:15,400 | 00:54:17,400 | 本席贊同因為本席 |
| 00:54:17,400 | 00:54:19,400 | 完全接受 |
| 00:54:19,400 | 00:54:21,400 | 陸資來炒作台灣的不動產 |
| 00:54:21,400 | 00:54:23,400 | 使得價格飆漲 |
| 00:54:23,400 | 00:54:25,400 | 也本席也完全 |
| 00:54:25,400 | 00:54:27,400 | 反對 |
| 00:54:27,400 | 00:54:29,400 | 陸資來控制我們台灣 |
| 00:54:29,400 | 00:54:31,400 | 有國防安全重要 |
| 00:54:31,400 | 00:54:33,400 | 關鍵的土地 |
| 00:54:33,400 | 00:54:35,400 | 這個我都完全贊同 |
| 00:54:35,400 | 00:54:37,400 | 但是不能夠 |
| 00:54:37,400 | 00:54:39,400 | 矯枉過正 |
| 00:54:39,400 | 00:54:41,400 | 所以這個無效我同意 |
| 00:54:41,400 | 00:54:43,400 | 法反、法禁我也同意 |
| 00:54:43,400 | 00:54:45,400 | 但是各位看到 |
| 00:54:45,400 | 00:54:47,400 | 我們94條知識的 |
| 00:54:47,400 | 00:54:49,400 | 修法理由 |
| 00:54:49,400 | 00:54:51,400 | 並沒有像你的 |
| 00:54:51,400 | 00:54:53,400 | 書面報告裡面所講的 |
| 00:54:53,400 | 00:54:55,400 | 它的立法理由為何 |
| 00:54:55,400 | 00:54:57,400 | 您的書面報告裡面 |
| 00:54:57,400 | 00:54:59,400 | 講說 |
| 00:54:59,400 | 00:55:01,400 | 因為為了要 |
| 00:55:01,400 | 00:55:03,400 | 我國不動產市場 |
| 00:55:03,400 | 00:55:05,400 | 以及國家安全戰略 |
| 00:55:05,400 | 00:55:07,400 | 防疫造成漏洞 |
| 00:55:07,400 | 00:55:09,400 | 的避免 |
| 00:55:09,400 | 00:55:11,400 | 為了避免對我國 |
| 00:55:11,400 | 00:55:13,400 | 安全戰略 |
| 00:55:13,400 | 00:55:15,400 | 有重要性的 |
| 00:55:15,400 | 00:55:17,400 | 土地 |
| 00:55:17,400 | 00:55:19,400 | 產生漏洞 |
| 00:55:19,400 | 00:55:21,400 | 以及我國不動產市場 |
| 00:55:21,400 | 00:55:23,400 | 這是你的書面 |
| 00:55:23,400 | 00:55:25,400 | 報告裡面講的 |
| 00:55:25,400 | 00:55:27,400 | 不受陸資的炒作 |
| 00:55:29,400 | 00:55:31,400 | 你的書面報告裡面有 |
| 00:55:31,400 | 00:55:33,400 | 我贊成 |
| 00:55:33,400 | 00:55:35,400 | 但是就94條知識的 |
| 00:55:35,400 | 00:55:37,400 | 草案裡面 |
| 00:55:37,400 | 00:55:39,400 | 也是武力法委員所提出的 |
| 00:55:39,400 | 00:55:41,400 | 民進黨委員所連署的 |
| 00:55:41,400 | 00:55:43,400 | 修正草案的理由裡面 |
| 00:55:43,400 | 00:55:45,400 | 並沒有您所講的 |
| 00:55:45,400 | 00:55:47,400 | 這麼理由 |
| 00:55:47,400 | 00:55:49,400 | 這樣適否允當 |
| 00:55:49,400 | 00:55:51,400 | 也就是說 |
| 00:55:51,400 | 00:55:53,400 | 您書面報告有啦 |
| 00:55:53,400 | 00:55:55,400 | 我贊同 |
| 00:55:55,400 | 00:55:57,400 | 但是在修法理由裡面 |
| 00:55:57,400 | 00:55:59,400 | 就要這樣 |
| 00:55:59,400 | 00:56:01,400 | 那因為本席 |
| 00:56:01,400 | 00:56:03,400 | 時常要出外交任務 |
| 00:56:03,400 | 00:56:05,400 | 國會外交任務所以時常沒辦法 |
| 00:56:05,400 | 00:56:07,400 | 來審法調所以在這裡先跟主委報告 |
| 00:56:07,400 | 00:56:09,400 | 不敢 |
| 00:56:09,400 | 00:56:11,400 | 這個您書面報告的理由 |
| 00:56:11,400 | 00:56:13,400 | 要放進去 |
| 00:56:13,400 | 00:56:15,400 | 也就是說要限縮 |
| 00:56:15,400 | 00:56:17,400 | 如果他 |
| 00:56:17,400 | 00:56:19,400 | 來購買的投資的 |
| 00:56:19,400 | 00:56:21,400 | 就明登記的是無關重要的 |
| 00:56:21,400 | 00:56:23,400 | 土地 |
| 00:56:23,400 | 00:56:25,400 | 我們沒必要去限制他 |
| 00:56:25,400 | 00:56:27,400 | 沒必要去限制他 |
| 00:56:29,400 | 00:56:31,400 | 所以我剛才提到 |
| 00:56:31,400 | 00:56:33,400 | 陸配嫁過來三年 |
| 00:56:33,400 | 00:56:35,400 | 還沒有取得身份證之前 |
| 00:56:35,400 | 00:56:37,400 | 我們對他的限制 |
| 00:56:37,400 | 00:56:39,400 | 這麼的多 |
| 00:56:39,400 | 00:56:41,400 | 我舉一個例子好了 |
| 00:56:41,400 | 00:56:43,400 | 陸配嫁過來三年 |
| 00:56:43,400 | 00:56:45,400 | 先生去世了 |
| 00:56:45,400 | 00:56:47,400 | 還沒有小孩 |
| 00:56:47,400 | 00:56:49,400 | 那先生的財產不動產 |
| 00:56:49,400 | 00:56:51,400 | 他要繼承 |
| 00:56:51,400 | 00:56:53,400 | 那你根據69條 |
| 00:56:53,400 | 00:56:55,400 | 跟我們這94條 |
| 00:56:55,400 | 00:56:57,400 | 這4條修法他還是不能繼承 |
| 00:56:59,400 | 00:57:01,400 | 這個變成我們兩岸人民關係條例 |
| 00:57:01,400 | 00:57:03,400 | 限制了 |
| 00:57:03,400 | 00:57:05,400 | 這個陸配的繼承權 |
| 00:57:05,400 | 00:57:07,400 | 這是我引擔主委您覺得呢 |
| 00:57:09,400 | 00:57:11,400 | 是謝謝委員喔 |
| 00:57:11,400 | 00:57:13,400 | 剛剛委員講那個修正的 |
| 00:57:13,400 | 00:57:15,400 | 更加明確喔 |
| 00:57:15,400 | 00:57:17,400 | 那我們也表示贊同 |
| 00:57:17,400 | 00:57:19,400 | 那剛剛您有提到 |
| 00:57:19,400 | 00:57:21,400 | 這個陸配 |
| 00:57:21,400 | 00:57:23,400 | 那他還是大陸人士 |
| 00:57:23,400 | 00:57:25,400 | 那他要 |
| 00:57:25,400 | 00:57:27,400 | 購買我們的房地產 |
| 00:57:27,400 | 00:57:29,400 | 還是要經過主管機關的許可 |
| 00:57:29,400 | 00:57:31,400 | 那如果說 |
| 00:57:31,400 | 00:57:33,400 | 繼承呢 |
| 00:57:33,400 | 00:57:35,400 | 看他有沒有取得 |
| 00:57:35,400 | 00:57:37,400 | 取得也是繼承 |
| 00:57:37,400 | 00:57:39,400 | 拘留 |
| 00:57:39,400 | 00:57:41,400 | 是可以 |
| 00:57:41,400 | 00:57:43,400 | 你們是因為他有拘留權 |
| 00:57:43,400 | 00:57:45,400 | 所以經過主管機關許可 |
| 00:57:45,400 | 00:57:47,400 | 但是我們民法上的 |
| 00:57:47,400 | 00:57:49,400 | 繼承權是不必主管機關的許可 |
| 00:57:49,400 | 00:57:51,400 | 因為他的先生去世 |
| 00:57:51,400 | 00:57:53,400 | 他嫁過來三年 |
| 00:57:53,400 | 00:57:55,400 | 先生去世他依法就有繼承權 |
| 00:57:55,400 | 00:57:57,400 | 而我們 |
| 00:57:57,400 | 00:57:59,400 | 這裡變成要 |
| 00:57:59,400 | 00:58:01,400 | 經過主管機關的許可 |
| 00:58:01,400 | 00:58:03,400 | 這樣對他們的權益保障 |
| 00:58:03,400 | 00:58:05,400 | 是兩條例也是尊重他們的繼承權 |
| 00:58:05,400 | 00:58:07,400 | 但是要經過你們許可 |
| 00:58:07,400 | 00:58:09,400 | 不用許可 |
| 00:58:09,400 | 00:58:11,400 | 這個就是民法相關的規定 |
| 00:58:11,400 | 00:58:13,400 | 我們適用 |
| 00:58:13,400 | 00:58:15,400 | 我們說不得取得 |
| 00:58:15,400 | 00:58:17,400 | 69條說不得取得 |
| 00:58:17,400 | 00:58:19,400 | 不得取得包括不能繼承 |
| 00:58:21,400 | 00:58:23,400 | 繼承可以 |
| 00:58:23,400 | 00:58:25,400 | 所以你們限縮解釋取得包括繼承 |
| 00:58:25,400 | 00:58:27,400 | 是 |
| 00:58:27,400 | 00:58:29,400 | 那這是你們行政機關的解釋 |
| 00:58:29,400 | 00:58:31,400 | 法院不一定接受你們的解釋 |
| 00:58:31,400 | 00:58:33,400 | 我們是三權分立的國家 |
| 00:58:33,400 | 00:58:35,400 | 法院不一定遵從 |
| 00:58:35,400 | 00:58:37,400 | 主管機關的解釋 |
| 00:58:39,400 | 00:58:41,400 | 所以這個是我們這次修法 |
| 00:58:41,400 | 00:58:43,400 | 要一起處理 |
| 00:58:43,400 | 00:58:45,400 | 所以他是可以繼承 |
| 00:58:45,400 | 00:58:47,400 | 應該要把繼承排除 |
| 00:58:47,400 | 00:58:49,400 | 因為他 |
| 00:58:49,400 | 00:58:51,400 | 根本沒有炒作我們不動產的 |
| 00:58:51,400 | 00:58:53,400 | 情形 |
| 00:58:53,400 | 00:58:55,400 | 也不大可能去繼承到 |
| 00:58:55,400 | 00:58:57,400 | 有國家安全重要性的土地 |
| 00:58:57,400 | 00:58:59,400 | 是 |
| 00:58:59,400 | 00:59:01,400 | 委員我們現行法律對入配 |
| 00:59:01,400 | 00:59:03,400 | 就已經可以繼承了 |
| 00:59:03,400 | 00:59:05,400 | 不用主管機關許可 |
| 00:59:05,400 | 00:59:07,400 | 所以你們把取得 |
| 00:59:07,400 | 00:59:09,400 | 限縮解釋包括繼承 |
| 00:59:09,400 | 00:59:11,400 | 對應該是這樣 |
| 00:59:11,400 | 00:59:13,400 | 好 |
| 00:59:13,400 | 00:59:15,400 | 那這個是你們主管機關的解釋 |
| 00:59:15,400 | 00:59:17,400 | 我跟主委提醒法院不一定接受你們的解釋 |
| 00:59:17,400 | 00:59:19,400 | 我們是三權分立的國家 |
| 00:59:19,400 | 00:59:21,400 | 剛才我們第一排就跟各位講上 |
| 00:59:21,400 | 00:59:23,400 | 我們原則上都是要看法院的判決 |
| 00:59:27,400 | 00:59:29,400 | 我們原住民保留地 |
| 00:59:29,400 | 00:59:31,400 | 現在要修 |
| 00:59:31,400 | 00:59:33,400 | 草案 |
| 00:59:33,400 | 00:59:35,400 | 還沒有通過 |
| 00:59:35,400 | 00:59:37,400 | 他們的確 |
| 00:59:37,400 | 00:59:39,400 | 屆民登記明確把它 |
| 00:59:39,400 | 00:59:41,400 | 改成無效 |
| 00:59:41,400 | 00:59:43,400 | 跟現行的法院的判決一樣 |
| 00:59:43,400 | 00:59:45,400 | 那他們原住民 |
| 00:59:45,400 | 00:59:47,400 | 的土地 |
| 00:59:47,400 | 00:59:49,400 | 之所以禁止 |
| 00:59:49,400 | 00:59:51,400 | 讓它無效 |
| 00:59:51,400 | 00:59:53,400 | 原來他有理由原住民他們原委會提出來 |
| 00:59:53,400 | 00:59:55,400 | 他說這個是規避 |
| 00:59:55,400 | 00:59:57,400 | 原住民身份的 |
| 00:59:57,400 | 00:59:59,400 | 的規定 |
| 00:59:59,400 | 01:00:01,400 | 所以無效 |
| 01:00:01,400 | 01:00:03,400 | 原來他們有講無效的理由 |
| 01:00:03,400 | 01:00:05,400 | 是因為他規避的原住民 |
| 01:00:05,400 | 01:00:07,400 | 身份他沒有原住民身份 |
| 01:00:07,400 | 01:00:09,400 | 所以他就去用原住民身份的人 |
| 01:00:09,400 | 01:00:11,400 | 去取得土地 |
| 01:00:11,400 | 01:00:13,400 | 屆民登記無效 |
| 01:00:13,400 | 01:00:15,400 | 原委會都可以提出這樣 |
| 01:00:15,400 | 01:00:17,400 | 有水準的法案的草案 |
| 01:00:17,400 | 01:00:19,400 | 我們陸委會 |
| 01:00:19,400 | 01:00:21,400 | 在這一次立法委員的 |
| 01:00:21,400 | 01:00:23,400 | 修法裡面 |
| 01:00:23,400 | 01:00:25,400 | 應該要加以稍微 |
| 01:00:25,400 | 01:00:27,400 | 注意 |
| 01:00:27,400 | 01:00:29,400 | 第二點 |
| 01:00:29,400 | 01:00:31,400 | 我們有三條知識的修法說明 |
| 01:00:31,400 | 01:00:33,400 | 也就剛才我們五立法委員 |
| 01:00:33,400 | 01:00:35,400 | 的修法說明 |
| 01:00:35,400 | 01:00:37,400 | 他稱大陸地區 |
| 01:00:37,400 | 01:00:39,400 | 人民 |
| 01:00:39,400 | 01:00:41,400 | 我們69條的法定用 |
| 01:00:41,400 | 01:00:43,400 | 於是大陸地區人民 |
| 01:00:43,400 | 01:00:45,400 | 而主委您剛才 |
| 01:00:45,400 | 01:00:47,400 | 也是用大陸人民 |
| 01:00:47,400 | 01:00:49,400 | 我們都會用法定的 |
| 01:00:49,400 | 01:00:51,400 | 大陸地區人民 |
| 01:00:51,400 | 01:00:53,400 | 那我們這個修法的草案 |
| 01:00:53,400 | 01:00:55,400 | 裡面卻用中國人民 |
| 01:00:55,400 | 01:00:57,400 | 如果 |
| 01:00:57,400 | 01:00:59,400 | 修法草案的說明這樣 |
| 01:00:59,400 | 01:01:01,400 | 通過變成我們 |
| 01:01:01,400 | 01:01:03,400 | 立法院所通過的 |
| 01:01:03,400 | 01:01:05,400 | 修法說明裡面 |
| 01:01:05,400 | 01:01:07,400 | 有中國人民這個用語 |
| 01:01:07,400 | 01:01:09,400 | 這樣是否妥當 |
| 01:01:09,400 | 01:01:11,400 | 我們尊重委員的提案 |
| 01:01:11,400 | 01:01:13,400 | 今天我們 |
| 01:01:13,400 | 01:01:15,400 | 審五立法委員 |
| 01:01:15,400 | 01:01:17,400 | 這個法案 |
| 01:01:17,400 | 01:01:19,400 | 他的精神在於防範中國大陸資金 |
| 01:01:19,400 | 01:01:21,400 | 藉由人頭 |
| 01:01:21,400 | 01:01:23,400 | 來規避審查 |
| 01:01:23,400 | 01:01:25,400 | 來炒作保留地 |
| 01:01:25,400 | 01:01:27,400 | 但是他在立法說明裡面 |
| 01:01:27,400 | 01:01:29,400 | 用中國人民 |
| 01:01:29,400 | 01:01:31,400 | 這不是法定用語 |
| 01:01:31,400 | 01:01:33,400 | 不應該出現在立法說明裡面 |
| 01:01:33,400 | 01:01:35,400 | 我們尊重 |
| 01:01:35,400 | 01:01:37,400 | 委員的這個提案 |
| 01:01:37,400 | 01:01:39,400 | 這個 |
| 01:01:39,400 | 01:01:41,400 | 本席在這裡 |
| 01:01:41,400 | 01:01:43,400 | 跟本院 |
| 01:01:43,400 | 01:01:45,400 | 報告 |
| 01:01:45,400 | 01:01:47,400 | 我們要用法定用語 |
| 01:01:47,400 | 01:01:49,400 | 另外一個 |
| 01:01:49,400 | 01:01:51,400 | 立法說明 |
| 01:01:51,400 | 01:01:53,400 | 裡面講到提供人頭 |
| 01:01:53,400 | 01:01:55,400 | 協助登記 |
| 01:01:55,400 | 01:01:57,400 | 提供人頭協助 |
| 01:01:57,400 | 01:01:59,400 | 登記 |
| 01:01:59,400 | 01:02:01,400 | 這樣一般用語口頭講話可以 |
| 01:02:01,400 | 01:02:03,400 | 但在立法說明裡面 |
| 01:02:03,400 | 01:02:05,400 | 用提供人頭協助登記 |
| 01:02:05,400 | 01:02:07,400 | 不是很恐怖嗎 |
| 01:02:09,400 | 01:02:11,400 | 不會很恐怖嗎 |
| 01:02:11,400 | 01:02:13,400 | 而我們立法院的 |
| 01:02:13,400 | 01:02:15,400 | 修法的說明這麼的 |
| 01:02:15,400 | 01:02:17,400 | 一般化 |
| 01:02:17,400 | 01:02:19,400 | 通俗 |
| 01:02:19,400 | 01:02:21,400 | 這是否妥當 |
| 01:02:21,400 | 01:02:23,400 | 是就是透過 |
| 01:02:23,400 | 01:02:25,400 | 建民登記這個我們再跟委員 |
| 01:02:25,400 | 01:02:27,400 | 來溝通 |
| 01:02:27,400 | 01:02:29,400 | 中國人民這個也要溝通 |
| 01:02:29,400 | 01:02:31,400 | 因為兩岸人民關係 |
| 01:02:31,400 | 01:02:33,400 | 條例是以大陸地區 |
| 01:02:33,400 | 01:02:35,400 | 台灣地區 |
| 01:02:35,400 | 01:02:37,400 | 大陸地區人民 |
| 01:02:37,400 | 01:02:39,400 | 為基本的架構 |
| 01:02:39,400 | 01:02:41,400 | 所以我們用中國人民 |
| 01:02:41,400 | 01:02:43,400 | 對陸配 |
| 01:02:43,400 | 01:02:45,400 | 這個坦白講 |
| 01:02:45,400 | 01:02:47,400 | 不親切 |
| 01:02:47,400 | 01:02:49,400 | 這不親切 |
| 01:02:49,400 | 01:02:51,400 | 我覺得不應該這樣子 |
| 01:02:51,400 | 01:02:53,400 | 不應該這樣子 |
| 01:02:53,400 | 01:02:55,400 | 我們應該按照我們現在的法定用語 |
| 01:02:55,400 | 01:02:57,400 | 在立法說明裡面 |
| 01:02:57,400 | 01:02:59,400 | 來加以說明 |
| 01:02:59,400 | 01:03:01,400 | 如果是行政院版就會用法定用語 |
| 01:03:01,400 | 01:03:03,400 | 但是如果這個版通過 |
| 01:03:03,400 | 01:03:05,400 | 就會成為本院的官方文書 |
| 01:03:05,400 | 01:03:07,400 | 將來我們 |
| 01:03:07,400 | 01:03:09,400 | 這個研讀這方面的法律 |
| 01:03:09,400 | 01:03:11,400 | 就會看到 |
| 01:03:11,400 | 01:03:13,400 | 中國人民這四個字 |
| 01:03:13,400 | 01:03:15,400 | 這相當不當 |
| 01:03:15,400 | 01:03:17,400 | 有關文字的部分 |
| 01:03:17,400 | 01:03:19,400 | 我們也會跟委員來溝通 |
| 01:03:19,400 | 01:03:21,400 | 所以提供人頭部分 |
| 01:03:21,400 | 01:03:23,400 | 我的人頭可以提供 |
| 01:03:23,400 | 01:03:25,400 | 不能在說明裡面 |
| 01:03:25,400 | 01:03:27,400 | 提供人頭 |
| 01:03:27,400 | 01:03:29,400 | 只要本席在立法院的時候 |
| 01:03:29,400 | 01:03:31,400 | 我不希望有這種法律通過 |
| 01:03:31,400 | 01:03:33,400 | 我會被法學界抨擊 |
| 01:03:33,400 | 01:03:35,400 | 我沒有盡到我法學者的職責 |
| 01:03:37,400 | 01:03:39,400 | 拜託主委 |
| 01:03:39,400 | 01:03:41,400 | 謝謝許中信委員 |
| 01:03:41,400 | 01:03:43,400 | 謝謝我們還沒有進入 |
| 01:03:43,400 | 01:03:45,400 | 足條 |
| 01:03:45,400 | 01:03:47,400 | 這個足條的時候都可以討論 |
| 01:03:47,400 | 01:03:49,400 | 同時我們其實委員 |
| 01:03:49,400 | 01:03:51,400 | 在提案的時候也是尊重每個委員 |
| 01:03:51,400 | 01:03:53,400 | 法律案裡面 |
| 01:03:53,400 | 01:03:55,400 | 也有他的理念 |
| 01:03:55,400 | 01:03:57,400 | 這個我們也都尊重 |
| 01:03:57,400 | 01:03:59,400 | 但是正式的法律我們還是在足條的時候 |
| 01:03:59,400 | 01:04:01,400 | 會來做精準的處理 |
| 01:04:01,400 | 01:04:03,400 | 接下來我們請蘇巧慧委員質詢 |
| 01:04:11,400 | 01:04:13,400 | 謝謝主席 |
| 01:04:13,400 | 01:04:15,400 | 我們請邱主委 |
| 01:04:15,400 | 01:04:17,400 | 主委好 |
| 01:04:17,400 | 01:04:19,400 | 主委好 |
| 01:04:19,400 | 01:04:21,400 | 主委想跟您請教一下 |
| 01:04:21,400 | 01:04:23,400 | 這個中國現在 |
| 01:04:23,400 | 01:04:25,400 | 有最新的法制變動 |
| 01:04:25,400 | 01:04:27,400 | 他們在7月31日的時候 |
| 01:04:27,400 | 01:04:29,400 | 頒布了國務院 |
| 01:04:29,400 | 01:04:31,400 | 關於出境入境管理規定 |
| 01:04:31,400 | 01:04:33,400 | 7月31號幾天前上個禮拜 |
| 01:04:33,400 | 01:04:35,400 | 頒布了國務院關於 |
| 01:04:35,400 | 01:04:37,400 | 出境入境的管理規定 |
| 01:04:37,400 | 01:04:39,400 | 這項規定其實被認為 |
| 01:04:39,400 | 01:04:41,400 | 是大幅度的擴張了 |
| 01:04:41,400 | 01:04:43,400 | 中國政府限制 |
| 01:04:43,400 | 01:04:45,400 | 人民出境 |
| 01:04:45,400 | 01:04:47,400 | 的權利 |
| 01:04:47,400 | 01:04:49,400 | 就是你人在中國了你要出境 |
| 01:04:49,400 | 01:04:51,400 | 這部分被大幅的限制 |
| 01:04:51,400 | 01:04:53,400 | 甚至是可能連外國人士 |
| 01:04:53,400 | 01:04:55,400 | 都會被受到限制 |
| 01:04:55,400 | 01:04:57,400 | 已經引發在國際上面非常多的討論 |
| 01:04:57,400 | 01:04:59,400 | 主要的爭議的條文是什麼 |
| 01:04:59,400 | 01:05:01,400 | 我舉例給大家聽 |
| 01:05:01,400 | 01:05:03,400 | 我們如果依照現在這個 |
| 01:05:03,400 | 01:05:05,400 | 新的中國的規定的話 |
| 01:05:05,400 | 01:05:07,400 | 它第四條它是說 |
| 01:05:07,400 | 01:05:09,400 | 你如果是 |
| 01:05:09,400 | 01:05:11,400 | 你現在人在中國 |
| 01:05:11,400 | 01:05:13,400 | 但你如果被認定你在 |
| 01:05:13,400 | 01:05:15,400 | 境外就是中國以外 |
| 01:05:15,400 | 01:05:19,400 | 境外從事危害國家安全與利益活動 |
| 01:05:19,400 | 01:05:23,400 | 你可能就在6個月至3年內 |
| 01:05:23,400 | 01:05:25,400 | 你會被禁止出境 |
| 01:05:25,400 | 01:05:27,400 | 你在境外喔但是你還是會被可能 |
| 01:05:27,400 | 01:05:29,400 | 在中國裡面你會被禁止出境 |
| 01:05:29,400 | 01:05:31,400 | 好再來呢 |
| 01:05:31,400 | 01:05:35,400 | 你如果是可能危害國家產業安全 |
| 01:05:35,400 | 01:05:37,400 | 技術安全 |
| 01:05:37,400 | 01:05:39,400 | 他也可以決定你禁止出境 |
| 01:05:39,400 | 01:05:41,400 | 然後呢 |
| 01:05:41,400 | 01:05:43,400 | 你要住出境的時候呢 |
| 01:05:43,400 | 01:05:45,400 | 你需要配合提供文件資料 |
| 01:05:45,400 | 01:05:47,400 | 甚至是包括電子數據 |
| 01:05:47,400 | 01:05:49,400 | 好電子數據呢 |
| 01:05:49,400 | 01:05:51,400 | 在中國實務執行起來以後 |
| 01:05:51,400 | 01:05:53,400 | 包括什麼呢 |
| 01:05:53,400 | 01:05:55,400 | 其實包括手機電腦 |
| 01:05:55,400 | 01:05:57,400 | 甚至你的社群媒體內容 |
| 01:05:57,400 | 01:05:59,400 | 甚至是雲端資料 |
| 01:05:59,400 | 01:06:01,400 | 都有可能成為審查的對象 |
| 01:06:01,400 | 01:06:03,400 | 所以根據這樣子的一個狀況 |
| 01:06:03,400 | 01:06:05,400 | 其實我們可以說 |
| 01:06:05,400 | 01:06:07,400 | 根據這樣子的一個狀況 |
| 01:06:07,400 | 01:06:09,400 | 其實我們可以看到731之後 |
| 01:06:09,400 | 01:06:11,400 | 有非常多的外媒 |
| 01:06:11,400 | 01:06:13,400 | 就包括紐約時報 |
| 01:06:13,400 | 01:06:15,400 | BBC 德國之聲 |
| 01:06:15,400 | 01:06:17,400 | 法國廣播電台等等等等 |
| 01:06:17,400 | 01:06:19,400 | 都把他跟在7月1號的時候 |
| 01:06:19,400 | 01:06:21,400 | 所實施的這個民族團結促進法 |
| 01:06:21,400 | 01:06:23,400 | 一併連動 |
| 01:06:23,400 | 01:06:25,400 | 可以看得出來 |
| 01:06:25,400 | 01:06:27,400 | 這個是在中國呢 |
| 01:06:27,400 | 01:06:29,400 | 其實已經進入了維穩大於一切 |
| 01:06:29,400 | 01:06:31,400 | 那所以呢他們最後的結論 |
| 01:06:31,400 | 01:06:33,400 | 是說 |
| 01:06:33,400 | 01:06:37,400 | 所有的民眾進入中國的風險 |
| 01:06:37,400 | 01:06:39,400 | 可能會上升 |
| 01:06:39,400 | 01:06:41,400 | 這是一個很客觀的評論 |
| 01:06:41,400 | 01:06:43,400 | 其實不帶任何的髒品 |
| 01:06:43,400 | 01:06:45,400 | 他就是描述了一個中國現在法制的變動 |
| 01:06:45,400 | 01:06:47,400 | 那所以因為造成這樣的結果 |
| 01:06:47,400 | 01:06:49,400 | 所以你進入中國法制的風險 |
| 01:06:49,400 | 01:06:51,400 | 你進入中國的風險 |
| 01:06:51,400 | 01:06:53,400 | 有可能上升 |
| 01:06:53,400 | 01:06:55,400 | 因為你有可能出不來 |
| 01:06:55,400 | 01:06:57,400 | 主委我想請問 |
| 01:06:57,400 | 01:06:59,400 | 我們跟中國的關係往來互動 |
| 01:06:59,400 | 01:07:01,400 | 其實相當的頻繁 |
| 01:07:01,400 | 01:07:03,400 | 往來互動其實是很多的 |
| 01:07:03,400 | 01:07:05,400 | 您怎麼看這樣子的一個 |
| 01:07:05,400 | 01:07:07,400 | 中國法制的變動 |
| 01:07:07,400 | 01:07:09,400 | 你覺得外媒評論是否正確 |
| 01:07:09,400 | 01:07:11,400 | 你又會怎麼樣跟國人 |
| 01:07:11,400 | 01:07:13,400 | 闡述現在新的狀況 |
| 01:07:13,400 | 01:07:15,400 | 謝謝委員的指教 |
| 01:07:15,400 | 01:07:17,400 | 委員今天所說的 |
| 01:07:17,400 | 01:07:19,400 | 這些內容我想非常重要 |
| 01:07:19,400 | 01:07:21,400 | 那我記得委員上次也問我 |
| 01:07:21,400 | 01:07:23,400 | 這個中國大陸的人士 |
| 01:07:23,400 | 01:07:25,400 | 很想來台灣玩 |
| 01:07:25,400 | 01:07:27,400 | 但是是他們的 |
| 01:07:27,400 | 01:07:29,400 | 嚴格的出境管制不讓他們來 |
| 01:07:29,400 | 01:07:31,400 | 中國大陸的學生 |
| 01:07:31,400 | 01:07:33,400 | 也經常打電話來入委會說 |
| 01:07:33,400 | 01:07:35,400 | 他可不可以來台灣留學 |
| 01:07:35,400 | 01:07:37,400 | 但是你們的出境管制 |
| 01:07:37,400 | 01:07:39,400 | 就是不讓他來 |
| 01:07:39,400 | 01:07:41,400 | 所以中共對他的公民 |
| 01:07:41,400 | 01:07:43,400 | 還有對外國人士 |
| 01:07:43,400 | 01:07:45,400 | 自始至終就是高度管制 |
| 01:07:45,400 | 01:07:47,400 | 隨時都可以 |
| 01:07:47,400 | 01:07:49,400 | 禁止入出境 |
| 01:07:49,400 | 01:07:51,400 | 那據我們了解 |
| 01:07:51,400 | 01:07:53,400 | 中共的這些 |
| 01:07:53,400 | 01:07:55,400 | 人士 中共的這些 |
| 01:07:55,400 | 01:07:57,400 | 公民取得他們的 |
| 01:07:57,400 | 01:07:59,400 | 取得他們的護照大概不到兩成 |
| 01:07:59,400 | 01:08:01,400 | 就是說他嚴格的 |
| 01:08:01,400 | 01:08:03,400 | 控管他們人民的出境 |
| 01:08:03,400 | 01:08:05,400 | 那我們 |
| 01:08:05,400 | 01:08:07,400 | 這次我們了解 |
| 01:08:07,400 | 01:08:09,400 | 公布的入出境的新規 |
| 01:08:09,400 | 01:08:11,400 | 他也是說在既有的 |
| 01:08:11,400 | 01:08:13,400 | 前置人民的這些手段上 |
| 01:08:13,400 | 01:08:15,400 | 加上一個法制化的外衣 |
| 01:08:15,400 | 01:08:17,399 | 而已 |
| 01:08:17,399 | 01:08:19,399 | 而且剛剛委員講的很清楚 |
| 01:08:19,399 | 01:08:21,399 | 就是說充滿各種 |
| 01:08:21,399 | 01:08:23,399 | 不確定的法律概念 |
| 01:08:23,399 | 01:08:25,399 | 而且認定要件 |
| 01:08:25,399 | 01:08:27,399 | 非常模糊寬泛 |
| 01:08:27,399 | 01:08:29,399 | 而且留意各種 |
| 01:08:29,399 | 01:08:31,399 | 主管機關的任意性 |
| 01:08:31,399 | 01:08:33,399 | 我說你不能出去就不能出去 |
| 01:08:33,399 | 01:08:35,399 | 我說你不能進來就不能進來 |
| 01:08:35,399 | 01:08:37,399 | 人民的權利無法受到 |
| 01:08:37,399 | 01:08:39,399 | 明確的法律保障 |
| 01:08:39,399 | 01:08:41,399 | 這才是剛剛委員所說 |
| 01:08:41,399 | 01:08:43,399 | 造成恐慌的根本原因 |
| 01:08:43,399 | 01:08:45,399 | 那麼9月15號 |
| 01:08:45,399 | 01:08:47,399 | 剛好進入中國大陸 |
| 01:08:47,399 | 01:08:49,399 | 10月份 他有 |
| 01:08:49,399 | 01:08:51,399 | 五中全會 |
| 01:08:51,399 | 01:08:53,399 | 維穩大於一切 |
| 01:08:53,399 | 01:08:55,399 | 加上習近平 |
| 01:08:55,399 | 01:08:57,399 | 要在明年要延任 |
| 01:08:57,399 | 01:08:59,399 | 所以他很多的 |
| 01:08:59,399 | 01:09:01,399 | 控管 |
| 01:09:01,399 | 01:09:03,399 | 人民 |
| 01:09:03,399 | 01:09:05,399 | 遷徙的自由 |
| 01:09:05,399 | 01:09:07,399 | 手段會更加的嚴厲 |
| 01:09:07,399 | 01:09:09,399 | 其實我們可以看到 |
| 01:09:09,399 | 01:09:11,399 | 最近北京當局 |
| 01:09:11,399 | 01:09:13,399 | 這幾年就是很多的國家安全 |
| 01:09:13,399 | 01:09:15,399 | 無限上綱 |
| 01:09:15,399 | 01:09:17,399 | 頻繁修訂各種的法令 |
| 01:09:17,399 | 01:09:19,399 | 這是其中之一 |
| 01:09:19,399 | 01:09:21,399 | 這樣子啦 |
| 01:09:21,399 | 01:09:23,399 | 我希望大家互相就教一下 |
| 01:09:23,399 | 01:09:25,399 | 討論一下 |
| 01:09:25,399 | 01:09:27,399 | 上一次的質詢 |
| 01:09:27,399 | 01:09:29,399 | 其實是跟您說 |
| 01:09:29,399 | 01:09:31,399 | 我希望 |
| 01:09:31,399 | 01:09:33,399 | 陸委會既然是在台灣 |
| 01:09:33,399 | 01:09:35,399 | 處理兩岸之間的關係 |
| 01:09:35,399 | 01:09:37,399 | 所以我們要能夠清楚的 |
| 01:09:37,399 | 01:09:39,399 | 讓我們自己的國民 |
| 01:09:39,399 | 01:09:41,399 | 能夠了解現在對岸 |
| 01:09:41,399 | 01:09:43,399 | 對我們的態度 |
| 01:09:43,399 | 01:09:45,399 | 客觀的事實主觀的態度 |
| 01:09:45,399 | 01:09:47,399 | 都讓我們可以清楚的了解 |
| 01:09:47,399 | 01:09:49,399 | 我覺得這是政府的責任 |
| 01:09:49,399 | 01:09:51,399 | 那麼一旦能夠清楚的了解 |
| 01:09:51,399 | 01:09:53,399 | 所有的資訊之後 |
| 01:09:53,399 | 01:09:55,400 | 國民做什麼判斷做什麼決定 |
| 01:09:55,400 | 01:09:57,400 | 當然我們是民主自由法制的國家 |
| 01:09:57,400 | 01:09:59,400 | 我們交給人民來做決定 |
| 01:09:59,400 | 01:10:01,400 | 所以我要求的是 |
| 01:10:01,400 | 01:10:03,400 | 政府部門尤其陸委會 |
| 01:10:03,400 | 01:10:05,400 | 要有提供清楚的資訊 |
| 01:10:05,400 | 01:10:07,400 | 明確的態度就這樣子 |
| 01:10:07,400 | 01:10:09,400 | 但是交給人民做決定 |
| 01:10:09,400 | 01:10:11,400 | 好所以上一次在面對 |
| 01:10:11,400 | 01:10:13,400 | 前一位委員在說你們都不讓 |
| 01:10:13,400 | 01:10:15,400 | 陸客來啦我們也不去 |
| 01:10:15,400 | 01:10:17,400 | 這些的事我說 |
| 01:10:17,400 | 01:10:19,400 | 這不是事實嗎 |
| 01:10:19,400 | 01:10:21,400 | 如果這不是事實你在台上 |
| 01:10:21,400 | 01:10:23,400 | 你應該就三句話很清楚的告訴大家 |
| 01:10:23,400 | 01:10:25,400 | 陸客不來我們不去 |
| 01:10:25,400 | 01:10:27,400 | 兩岸不交流這不是事實嘛 |
| 01:10:27,400 | 01:10:29,400 | 這是對岸不給他們的人民來 |
| 01:10:29,400 | 01:10:31,400 | 我們去的人這麼多 |
| 01:10:31,400 | 01:10:33,400 | 平常大家也都互相有在交流 |
| 01:10:33,400 | 01:10:35,400 | 這個才是大家明確看到的事實 |
| 01:10:35,400 | 01:10:37,400 | 你不能轉一個彎之後 |
| 01:10:37,400 | 01:10:39,400 | 變成在公開論述的時候 |
| 01:10:39,400 | 01:10:41,400 | 變成是一種這個 |
| 01:10:41,400 | 01:10:43,400 | 宣傳式的語言和事實相悖 |
| 01:10:43,400 | 01:10:45,400 | 好可是 |
| 01:10:45,400 | 01:10:47,400 | 可是可是 |
| 01:10:47,400 | 01:10:49,400 | 我要求的是明確的 |
| 01:10:49,400 | 01:10:51,400 | 事實客觀的事實明確的 |
| 01:10:51,400 | 01:10:53,400 | 態度那今天我在問你的這個 |
| 01:10:53,400 | 01:10:55,400 | 部分其實是對於法制 |
| 01:10:55,400 | 01:10:57,400 | 中國法制的變更 |
| 01:10:57,400 | 01:10:59,400 | 我也是希望您 |
| 01:10:59,400 | 01:11:01,400 | 不需要用其他髒皮的態度 |
| 01:11:01,400 | 01:11:03,400 | 你就告訴大家明確的 |
| 01:11:03,400 | 01:11:05,400 | 事實一中國有沒有 |
| 01:11:05,400 | 01:11:07,400 | 改變規定答案是有 |
| 01:11:07,400 | 01:11:09,400 | 第二中國改變的規定 |
| 01:11:09,400 | 01:11:11,400 | 有沒有更嚴格的限制 |
| 01:11:11,400 | 01:11:13,400 | 了人民 |
| 01:11:13,400 | 01:11:15,400 | 不分中國人民 |
| 01:11:15,400 | 01:11:17,400 | 甚至是境外人士外國人士 |
| 01:11:17,400 | 01:11:19,400 | 在進出中國的限制 |
| 01:11:19,400 | 01:11:21,400 | 有沒有包括連對 |
| 01:11:21,400 | 01:11:23,400 | 外國人士的進出 |
| 01:11:23,400 | 01:11:25,400 | 都產生更嚴格的限制 |
| 01:11:25,400 | 01:11:27,400 | 答案是有 |
| 01:11:27,400 | 01:11:29,400 | 因為連外媒 |
| 01:11:29,400 | 01:11:31,400 | 都已經指出了現在的這個 |
| 01:11:31,400 | 01:11:33,400 | 規定是你這個人只要是在 |
| 01:11:33,400 | 01:11:35,400 | 中國你對於中國有 |
| 01:11:35,400 | 01:11:37,400 | 他所規定的 |
| 01:11:37,400 | 01:11:39,400 | 他所規定的危害國家安全 |
| 01:11:39,400 | 01:11:41,400 | 利益危害國家 |
| 01:11:41,400 | 01:11:43,400 | 產業安全技術安全等等 |
| 01:11:43,400 | 01:11:45,400 | 你就有可能被限制 |
| 01:11:45,400 | 01:11:47,400 | 出境你不能離開中國嘛 |
| 01:11:47,400 | 01:11:49,400 | 這是很明確的法規規定嘛 |
| 01:11:49,400 | 01:11:51,400 | 第三什麼叫做危害 |
| 01:11:51,400 | 01:11:53,400 | 國家安全和利益什麼叫做 |
| 01:11:53,400 | 01:11:55,400 | 危害國家產業安全技術安全 |
| 01:11:55,400 | 01:11:59,400 | 這就是不確定的法律概念啊 |
| 01:11:59,400 | 01:12:01,400 | 這個很清楚嘛這個 |
| 01:12:01,400 | 01:12:03,400 | 不帶任何髒皮這就是明確 |
| 01:12:03,400 | 01:12:05,400 | 客觀的事實所以 |
| 01:12:05,400 | 01:12:07,400 | 中國現在的狀況是 |
| 01:12:07,400 | 01:12:09,400 | 他用了一個非常 |
| 01:12:09,400 | 01:12:11,400 | 不確定的法律概念 |
| 01:12:11,400 | 01:12:13,400 | 來對只要在中國境內的 |
| 01:12:13,400 | 01:12:15,400 | 部分中國籍或其他國籍的人士 |
| 01:12:15,400 | 01:12:17,400 | 都進行嚴格的控管 |
| 01:12:17,400 | 01:12:19,400 | 所以我在這裡問你的結論 |
| 01:12:19,400 | 01:12:21,400 | 就是請問所有的人 |
| 01:12:21,400 | 01:12:23,400 | 在進出中國進入中國的時候 |
| 01:12:23,400 | 01:12:25,400 | 風險有沒有上升 |
| 01:12:25,400 | 01:12:27,400 | 我想是非常明顯的 |
| 01:12:27,400 | 01:12:29,400 | 答案是有啊這個不用再帶任何的 |
| 01:12:29,400 | 01:12:31,400 | 爭辯也不用有任何的情緒 |
| 01:12:31,400 | 01:12:33,400 | 答案就是有啊 |
| 01:12:33,400 | 01:12:35,400 | 所以我的要求其實就是 |
| 01:12:35,400 | 01:12:37,400 | 我認為我們對中國當然 |
| 01:12:37,400 | 01:12:39,400 | 非常複雜的關係我們中國 |
| 01:12:39,400 | 01:12:41,400 | 和中國有千絲萬縷的關係 |
| 01:12:41,400 | 01:12:43,400 | 中國對我們我們對中國 |
| 01:12:43,400 | 01:12:45,400 | 其實我們的態度反而很明確 |
| 01:12:45,400 | 01:12:47,400 | 我們自始至終只是 |
| 01:12:47,400 | 01:12:49,400 | 要求如果我們鼓勵 |
| 01:12:49,400 | 01:12:51,400 | 不在政治目的的互動 |
| 01:12:51,400 | 01:12:53,400 | 我們要求有平等互惠的 |
| 01:12:53,400 | 01:12:55,400 | 目的就這麼清楚 |
| 01:12:55,400 | 01:12:57,400 | 而已嘛所以在這個交流當中 |
| 01:12:57,400 | 01:12:59,400 | 陸委會您就有責任 |
| 01:12:59,400 | 01:13:01,400 | 要告訴台灣我們自己的國民 |
| 01:13:01,400 | 01:13:03,400 | 我們現在進入中國 |
| 01:13:03,400 | 01:13:05,400 | 有新的事實變動 |
| 01:13:05,400 | 01:13:07,400 | 這樣發生的喔 |
| 01:13:07,400 | 01:13:09,400 | 你進去以後你可能會出不來喔 |
| 01:13:09,400 | 01:13:11,400 | 因為他現在有一個新的法規規定 |
| 01:13:11,400 | 01:13:13,400 | 就是這樣而且9月15號 |
| 01:13:13,400 | 01:13:15,400 | 要實施啊是不是 |
| 01:13:15,400 | 01:13:17,400 | 所以這沒有什麼好爭辯的 |
| 01:13:17,400 | 01:13:19,400 | 我們在描述的是一個客觀的事實 |
| 01:13:19,400 | 01:13:21,400 | 陸委會應該把握每一個機會 |
| 01:13:21,400 | 01:13:23,400 | 告訴全體的國人 |
| 01:13:23,400 | 01:13:25,400 | 對岸就是如此 |
| 01:13:25,400 | 01:13:27,400 | 他和我們不同之處也在於如此 |
| 01:13:27,400 | 01:13:29,400 | 所以大家 |
| 01:13:29,400 | 01:13:31,400 | 可以自己做判斷嘛 |
| 01:13:31,400 | 01:13:33,400 | 但是我們會全力守護國人的安全 |
| 01:13:33,400 | 01:13:35,400 | 陸委會你同意這樣的說法嗎 |
| 01:13:35,400 | 01:13:37,400 | 謝謝委員喔 |
| 01:13:37,400 | 01:13:39,400 | 我想我們還是要呼籲國人 |
| 01:13:39,400 | 01:13:41,400 | 兩岸關係跌宕起伏 |
| 01:13:41,400 | 01:13:43,400 | 但是我們對於國人的人身安全 |
| 01:13:43,400 | 01:13:45,400 | 都是重中之重 |
| 01:13:45,400 | 01:13:47,400 | 我們呼籲國人 |
| 01:13:47,400 | 01:13:49,400 | 目前應該要審慎評估 |
| 01:13:49,400 | 01:13:51,400 | 充分了解中共法規環境 |
| 01:13:51,400 | 01:13:53,400 | 及可能的風險避免 |
| 01:13:53,400 | 01:13:55,400 | 人身安全受害 |
| 01:13:55,400 | 01:13:57,400 | 這是我們不斷的呼籲 |
| 01:13:57,400 | 01:13:59,400 | 我們也會透過各種的 |
| 01:13:59,400 | 01:14:01,400 | 他9月15號就會實施了 |
| 01:14:01,400 | 01:14:03,400 | 會不斷的說明 |
| 01:14:03,400 | 01:14:05,400 | 對不斷的說明嘛 |
| 01:14:05,400 | 01:14:07,400 | 因為現在這個什麼叫做國家 |
| 01:14:07,400 | 01:14:09,400 | 你甚至是你看上次的話2023年 |
| 01:14:09,400 | 01:14:11,400 | 發生了一本書說描寫重征皇帝的歷史 |
| 01:14:11,400 | 01:14:13,400 | 結果大家突然間說 |
| 01:14:13,400 | 01:14:15,400 | 這可能是影射習近平喔 |
| 01:14:15,400 | 01:14:17,400 | 所以那本書就不見了 |
| 01:14:17,400 | 01:14:19,400 | 被消失下架了嘛 |
| 01:14:19,400 | 01:14:21,400 | 然後最新的一個例子是 |
| 01:14:21,400 | 01:14:23,400 | 有一個青少年虐狗啊 |
| 01:14:23,400 | 01:14:25,400 | 然後這個這個網路引起軒然大波 |
| 01:14:25,400 | 01:14:27,400 | 網友群情激奮來抗議 |
| 01:14:27,400 | 01:14:29,400 | 抗議到最後因為世界弄太大了 |
| 01:14:29,400 | 01:14:31,400 | 所以這個影片就是被全部下架 |
| 01:14:31,400 | 01:14:33,400 | 這個影片跟政治有關係嗎 |
| 01:14:33,400 | 01:14:35,400 | 沒有啊他只是激動了 |
| 01:14:35,400 | 01:14:37,400 | 可能攪動了中國的內部的氣氛 |
| 01:14:37,400 | 01:14:39,400 | 這樣的東西也是被箝制啊 |
| 01:14:39,400 | 01:14:41,400 | 你這樣的東西有沒有可能被認為是 |
| 01:14:41,400 | 01:14:43,400 | 危害國家秩序安全 |
| 01:14:43,400 | 01:14:45,400 | 答案是有啊 |
| 01:14:45,400 | 01:14:47,400 | 因為他在中國的處置上面是 |
| 01:14:47,400 | 01:14:49,400 | 這個影片被要求下架 |
| 01:14:49,400 | 01:14:51,400 | 不是被要求他是直接下架 |
| 01:14:51,400 | 01:14:53,400 | 是這樣的狀況嘛 |
| 01:14:53,400 | 01:14:55,400 | 所以對岸和我們現在的狀況 |
| 01:14:55,400 | 01:14:57,400 | 就是處在完全不同的法治層次上面 |
| 01:14:57,400 | 01:14:59,400 | 大家的想像不能用我們自己的態度 |
| 01:14:59,400 | 01:15:01,400 | 去想像對岸的態度 |
| 01:15:01,400 | 01:15:03,400 | 所以在這樣的狀況下你要選擇什麼樣的狀態 |
| 01:15:03,400 | 01:15:05,400 | 要選擇什麼樣的生活形態 |
| 01:15:05,400 | 01:15:07,400 | 這就是我們應該給國人 |
| 01:15:07,400 | 01:15:09,400 | 明確的資訊嘛 |
| 01:15:09,400 | 01:15:11,400 | 是 |
| 01:15:11,400 | 01:15:13,400 | 我是希望陸委會能夠更客觀的 |
| 01:15:13,400 | 01:15:15,400 | 提問更多的事實不斷的給國人參考啦 |
| 01:15:15,400 | 01:15:17,400 | 謝謝委員 |
| 01:15:17,400 | 01:15:19,400 | 謝謝 |
| 01:15:19,400 | 01:15:21,400 | 謝謝蘇巧會委員 |
| 01:15:21,400 | 01:15:23,400 | 接下來我們請王鴻威委員詢答 |
| 01:15:27,400 | 01:15:29,400 | 好 |
| 01:15:29,400 | 01:15:31,400 | 謝謝主席 |
| 01:15:31,400 | 01:15:33,400 | 我請邱主委 |
| 01:15:37,400 | 01:15:39,400 | 王伟好 |
| 01:15:39,400 | 01:15:41,400 | 主委 |
| 01:15:41,400 | 01:15:43,400 | 有關於我們今天是針對 |
| 01:15:43,400 | 01:15:45,400 | 大概都是我們委員的版本 |
| 01:15:45,400 | 01:15:47,400 | 有關於兩岸人民關係條例相關的修正 |
| 01:15:47,400 | 01:15:49,400 | 那這些有些修正呢 |
| 01:15:49,400 | 01:15:51,400 | 是有更提升 |
| 01:15:51,400 | 01:15:53,400 | 因為我們今天 |
| 01:15:53,400 | 01:15:55,400 | 我們今天是針對 |
| 01:15:55,400 | 01:15:57,400 | 有更提升 |
| 01:15:57,400 | 01:15:59,400 | 這個相關人士的 |
| 01:15:59,400 | 01:16:01,400 | 一些法律的權利 |
| 01:16:01,400 | 01:16:03,400 | 這基本上我個人 |
| 01:16:03,400 | 01:16:05,400 | 是沒有什麼 |
| 01:16:05,400 | 01:16:07,400 | 就不會有什麼反對 |
| 01:16:07,400 | 01:16:09,400 | 不過這裡面有延長管收的部分 |
| 01:16:09,400 | 01:16:11,400 | 我覺得要怎麼樣去 |
| 01:16:11,400 | 01:16:13,400 | 強化讓整個的法律 |
| 01:16:13,400 | 01:16:15,400 | 的程序更為周詳 |
| 01:16:15,400 | 01:16:17,400 | 這也是非常重要 |
| 01:16:17,400 | 01:16:19,400 | 只是說現在的看起來版本非常 |
| 01:16:19,400 | 01:16:21,400 | 重多而且又沒有行政院的 |
| 01:16:21,400 | 01:16:23,400 | 版本所以如果說 |
| 01:16:23,400 | 01:16:25,400 | 這個時候我們進入了逐條的部分 |
| 01:16:25,400 | 01:16:27,400 | 我希望能夠在 |
| 01:16:27,400 | 01:16:29,400 | 相關的法律 |
| 01:16:29,400 | 01:16:31,400 | 的程序部分 |
| 01:16:31,400 | 01:16:33,400 | 要有更周詳 |
| 01:16:33,400 | 01:16:35,400 | 不管是 |
| 01:16:35,400 | 01:16:37,400 | 你延長收容或者是 |
| 01:16:37,400 | 01:16:39,400 | 禁止這個 |
| 01:16:39,400 | 01:16:41,400 | 這個屆民登記的部分 |
| 01:16:41,400 | 01:16:43,400 | 好來 |
| 01:16:43,400 | 01:16:45,400 | 我們先看因為最近 |
| 01:16:45,400 | 01:16:47,400 | 那個 |
| 01:16:47,400 | 01:16:49,400 | 我們陸委會有很多 |
| 01:16:49,400 | 01:16:51,400 | 都在講就是說統戰的部分 |
| 01:16:51,400 | 01:16:53,400 | 就是要提醒 |
| 01:16:53,400 | 01:16:55,400 | 人民不要被中國大陸統戰 |
| 01:16:55,400 | 01:16:57,400 | 所以包含 |
| 01:16:57,400 | 01:16:59,400 | 台北市這個 |
| 01:16:59,400 | 01:17:01,400 | 迎來了小熊貓你們 |
| 01:17:01,400 | 01:17:03,400 | 也認為有統戰之嫌 |
| 01:17:03,400 | 01:17:05,400 | 所以相關只要是 |
| 01:17:05,400 | 01:17:07,400 | 而且是這個 |
| 01:17:07,400 | 01:17:09,400 | 市級的這個 |
| 01:17:09,400 | 01:17:11,400 | 官員的身份你們不讓他來 |
| 01:17:11,400 | 01:17:13,400 | 所以小熊貓也會統戰 |
| 01:17:13,400 | 01:17:15,400 | 或者是海峽論壇前一陣子 |
| 01:17:15,400 | 01:17:17,400 | 這個喧喧嚷嚷的說 |
| 01:17:17,400 | 01:17:19,400 | 這個海峽論壇就是統戰平台 |
| 01:17:19,400 | 01:17:21,400 | 或者是賣水果到大陸 |
| 01:17:21,400 | 01:17:23,400 | 或最近有關於學生 |
| 01:17:23,400 | 01:17:25,400 | 到大陸交流 |
| 01:17:25,400 | 01:17:27,400 | 甚至陸生來台交流 |
| 01:17:27,400 | 01:17:29,400 | 也說有統戰的問題 |
| 01:17:29,400 | 01:17:31,400 | 所以我們嘴巴上講 |
| 01:17:31,400 | 01:17:33,400 | 很歡迎陸生 |
| 01:17:33,400 | 01:17:35,400 | 那我想請問一下 |
| 01:17:35,400 | 01:17:37,400 | 最近靖州刊 |
| 01:17:37,400 | 01:17:39,400 | 有一個爆料 |
| 01:17:39,400 | 01:17:41,400 | 就是叫李退之 |
| 01:17:41,400 | 01:17:43,400 | 我想諸位應該也認識他 |
| 01:17:43,400 | 01:17:45,400 | 李退之他之前 |
| 01:17:45,400 | 01:17:47,400 | 擔任我們農委會的副主委 |
| 01:17:47,400 | 01:17:49,400 | 當時 |
| 01:17:49,400 | 01:17:51,400 | 他原來是台南市議員 |
| 01:17:51,400 | 01:17:53,400 | 但是在我們賴總統 |
| 01:17:53,400 | 01:17:55,400 | 當時他組閣的時候 |
| 01:17:55,400 | 01:17:57,400 | 把他延攬入閣 |
| 01:17:57,400 | 01:17:59,400 | 所以他被外界 |
| 01:17:59,400 | 01:18:01,400 | 視之為是 |
| 01:18:01,400 | 01:18:03,400 | 賴總統的親信子弟兵 |
| 01:18:03,400 | 01:18:05,400 | 原來是 |
| 01:18:05,400 | 01:18:07,400 | 賴總統組閣就把 |
| 01:18:07,400 | 01:18:09,400 | 台南的子弟兵也延攬入閣了 |
| 01:18:09,400 | 01:18:11,400 | 好那他 |
| 01:18:11,400 | 01:18:13,400 | 最近就被 |
| 01:18:13,400 | 01:18:15,400 | 靖州刊爆料說 |
| 01:18:15,400 | 01:18:17,400 | 有很多台商說看到 |
| 01:18:17,400 | 01:18:19,400 | 他多次的遊走兩岸 |
| 01:18:19,400 | 01:18:21,400 | 而且打著是說 |
| 01:18:21,400 | 01:18:23,400 | 是賴總統的救贖 |
| 01:18:23,400 | 01:18:25,400 | 甚至說是 |
| 01:18:25,400 | 01:18:27,400 | 我們副主委梁文傑的大學同學 |
| 01:18:27,400 | 01:18:29,400 | 那因為他這樣的一個名號 |
| 01:18:29,400 | 01:18:31,400 | 跟他的淵源 |
| 01:18:31,400 | 01:18:33,400 | 使得大陸的國台辦 |
| 01:18:33,400 | 01:18:35,400 | 也非常重視 |
| 01:18:35,400 | 01:18:37,400 | 也頻頻跟他接觸 |
| 01:18:37,400 | 01:18:39,400 | 所以我想請問一下 |
| 01:18:39,400 | 01:18:41,400 | 我們農委會 |
| 01:18:41,400 | 01:18:43,400 | 有沒有掌握到這些訊息 |
| 01:18:43,400 | 01:18:45,400 | 報告委員 |
| 01:18:45,400 | 01:18:47,400 | 因為包括你提到的當事人 |
| 01:18:47,400 | 01:18:49,400 | 附錄都沒有跟我們陸委會 |
| 01:18:49,400 | 01:18:51,400 | 有 |
| 01:18:51,400 | 01:18:53,400 | 有所謂的 |
| 01:18:53,400 | 01:18:55,400 | 要告知我們 |
| 01:18:55,400 | 01:18:57,400 | 那他也是 |
| 01:18:57,400 | 01:18:59,400 | 也沒有在 |
| 01:18:59,400 | 01:19:01,400 | 政務官時間 |
| 01:19:01,400 | 01:19:03,400 | 也已經過去都沒有 |
| 01:19:03,400 | 01:19:05,400 | 我們連審的 |
| 01:19:05,400 | 01:19:07,400 | 超過已經管制期了 |
| 01:19:07,400 | 01:19:09,400 | 所以也沒有連審 |
| 01:19:09,400 | 01:19:11,400 | 因為他附錄我們並不清楚 |
| 01:19:11,400 | 01:19:13,400 | 好你們不清楚 |
| 01:19:13,400 | 01:19:15,400 | 你們事後也不做追蹤 |
| 01:19:15,400 | 01:19:17,400 | 有沒有像 |
| 01:19:17,400 | 01:19:19,400 | 比如說像海峽論壇 |
| 01:19:19,400 | 01:19:21,400 | 姚慶林因為他現在是 |
| 01:19:21,400 | 01:19:23,400 | 台東縣縣長 |
| 01:19:23,400 | 01:19:25,400 | 但是有很多像農會 |
| 01:19:25,400 | 01:19:27,400 | 他們也不具任何的 |
| 01:19:27,400 | 01:19:29,400 | 官方的身份 |
| 01:19:29,400 | 01:19:31,400 | 你們還是去做調查了不是嗎 |
| 01:19:31,400 | 01:19:33,400 | 我們有瞭解 |
| 01:19:33,400 | 01:19:35,400 | 農委會也有把報告給我們 |
| 01:19:35,400 | 01:19:37,400 | 他認為沒有 |
| 01:19:37,400 | 01:19:39,400 | 違反兩條立法的警示 |
| 01:19:39,400 | 01:19:41,400 | 所以呂退資 |
| 01:19:41,400 | 01:19:43,400 | 陸委會沒有去了解沒有去調查 |
| 01:19:43,400 | 01:19:45,400 | 我們據瞭解他是 |
| 01:19:45,400 | 01:19:47,400 | 可能是參展但是 |
| 01:19:47,400 | 01:19:49,400 | 並沒有違反什麼法令 |
| 01:19:49,400 | 01:19:51,400 | 好待會我會繼續問 |
| 01:19:51,400 | 01:19:53,400 | 那另外洪其昌 |
| 01:19:53,400 | 01:19:55,400 | 我相信主委也很熟 |
| 01:19:55,400 | 01:19:57,400 | 洪其昌現在雖然退流了 |
| 01:19:57,400 | 01:19:59,400 | 但是呢他是 |
| 01:19:59,400 | 01:20:01,400 | 新潮流的創黨元老 |
| 01:20:01,400 | 01:20:03,400 | 那所以呢他到大陸去 |
| 01:20:03,400 | 01:20:05,400 | 也都受到 |
| 01:20:05,400 | 01:20:07,400 | 非常的禮遇 |
| 01:20:07,400 | 01:20:09,400 | 那他這幾年 |
| 01:20:09,400 | 01:20:11,400 | 也常常出入 |
| 01:20:11,400 | 01:20:13,400 | 中國大陸而且 |
| 01:20:13,400 | 01:20:15,400 | 他橫跨的領域更多 |
| 01:20:15,400 | 01:20:17,400 | 從這個旅遊業 |
| 01:20:17,400 | 01:20:19,400 | 科技業生技業 |
| 01:20:19,400 | 01:20:21,400 | 反正是各式的產業 |
| 01:20:21,400 | 01:20:23,400 | 那都有而且這個出入 |
| 01:20:23,400 | 01:20:25,400 | 也非常頻繁反而而且 |
| 01:20:25,400 | 01:20:27,400 | 帶團前往帶團前往 |
| 01:20:27,400 | 01:20:29,400 | 那如果他去參加的話 |
| 01:20:29,400 | 01:20:31,400 | 也都會成為座上兵 |
| 01:20:31,400 | 01:20:33,400 | 那所以請問一下 |
| 01:20:33,400 | 01:20:35,400 | 陸委會對於 |
| 01:20:35,400 | 01:20:37,400 | 洪其昌您這位老友 |
| 01:20:37,400 | 01:20:39,400 | 那麼有沒有 |
| 01:20:39,400 | 01:20:41,400 | 去做任何的了解 |
| 01:20:41,400 | 01:20:43,400 | 跟委員 |
| 01:20:43,400 | 01:20:45,400 | 我們有跟當事人問 |
| 01:20:45,400 | 01:20:47,400 | 那基本上我們也會 |
| 01:20:47,400 | 01:20:49,400 | 提醒要注意 |
| 01:20:49,400 | 01:20:51,400 | 附陸要注意兩岸的相關的規範 |
| 01:20:51,400 | 01:20:53,400 | 那我想 |
| 01:20:53,400 | 01:20:55,400 | 他也都很清楚 |
| 01:20:55,400 | 01:20:57,400 | 因為他也曾經認識 |
| 01:20:57,400 | 01:20:59,400 | 海基會的董事長 |
| 01:20:59,400 | 01:21:01,400 | 那截至目前為止 |
| 01:21:01,400 | 01:21:03,400 | 我想 |
| 01:21:03,400 | 01:21:05,400 | 至少我們沒有市政 |
| 01:21:05,400 | 01:21:07,400 | 了解他有管制的規範 |
| 01:21:07,400 | 01:21:09,400 | 那金寧您知道他還要去嗎 |
| 01:21:09,400 | 01:21:11,400 | 知道嗎 |
| 01:21:11,400 | 01:21:13,400 | 因為他 |
| 01:21:13,400 | 01:21:15,400 | 不用了解 |
| 01:21:15,400 | 01:21:17,400 | 不是他時間也是超過 |
| 01:21:17,400 | 01:21:19,400 | 我們管制期啦 |
| 01:21:19,400 | 01:21:21,400 | 所以他也是民間人士 |
| 01:21:21,400 | 01:21:23,400 | 所以同樣是民間人士 |
| 01:21:23,400 | 01:21:25,400 | 那可能我們的農會 |
| 01:21:25,400 | 01:21:27,400 | 他去賣水果到大陸 |
| 01:21:27,400 | 01:21:29,400 | 就有問題 |
| 01:21:29,400 | 01:21:31,400 | 那同樣是民間人士 |
| 01:21:31,400 | 01:21:33,400 | 屬於是賴總統的親信好友 |
| 01:21:33,400 | 01:21:35,400 | 就沒有問題 |
| 01:21:35,400 | 01:21:37,400 | 委員不講 |
| 01:21:37,400 | 01:21:39,400 | 我們只是說不要賣到那個 |
| 01:21:39,400 | 01:21:41,400 | 海峽論壇統戰平台 |
| 01:21:41,400 | 01:21:43,400 | 海峽論壇是統戰平台 |
| 01:21:43,400 | 01:21:45,400 | 這個 |
| 01:21:45,400 | 01:21:47,400 | 海峽論壇是統戰平台 |
| 01:21:47,400 | 01:21:49,400 | 那請問一下 |
| 01:21:49,400 | 01:21:51,400 | 北京的咖啡博覽會 |
| 01:21:51,400 | 01:21:53,400 | 是不是統戰平台 |
| 01:21:53,400 | 01:21:55,400 | 公務員報告 |
| 01:21:55,400 | 01:21:57,400 | 因為海峽論壇是 |
| 01:21:57,400 | 01:21:59,400 | 中共當局 |
| 01:21:59,400 | 01:22:01,400 | 對台統戰的一個 |
| 01:22:01,400 | 01:22:03,400 | 大交流大合作的一個 |
| 01:22:03,400 | 01:22:05,400 | 由他們主導的一個對台平台 |
| 01:22:05,400 | 01:22:07,400 | 那我想您提到這個什麼博覽會 |
| 01:22:07,400 | 01:22:09,400 | 應該不是 |
| 01:22:09,400 | 01:22:11,400 | 中共當局 |
| 01:22:11,400 | 01:22:13,400 | 所以北京咖啡博覽會 |
| 01:22:13,400 | 01:22:15,400 | 不是統戰平台 |
| 01:22:15,400 | 01:22:17,400 | 所以李退之 |
| 01:22:17,400 | 01:22:19,400 | 他說他就是去參加這個咖啡節 |
| 01:22:19,400 | 01:22:21,400 | 不過我可以跟主委報告 |
| 01:22:21,400 | 01:22:23,400 | 這個北京咖啡節 |
| 01:22:23,400 | 01:22:25,400 | 後來我有在網路上查 |
| 01:22:25,400 | 01:22:27,400 | 我想既然 |
| 01:22:27,400 | 01:22:29,400 | 我很鼓勵台灣的 |
| 01:22:29,400 | 01:22:31,400 | 業者去拓展 |
| 01:22:31,400 | 01:22:33,400 | 中國大陸市場 |
| 01:22:33,400 | 01:22:35,400 | 台灣的咖啡很好 |
| 01:22:35,400 | 01:22:37,400 | 可是他根本沒有咖啡館 |
| 01:22:37,400 | 01:22:39,400 | 也沒有特定的台灣咖啡的攤位 |
| 01:22:39,400 | 01:22:41,400 | 事實上是非常非常靈性的 |
| 01:22:41,400 | 01:22:43,400 | 個別的廠商而已 |
| 01:22:43,400 | 01:22:45,400 | 好那我請問一下 |
| 01:22:45,400 | 01:22:47,400 | 這個也是在台灣的產業 |
| 01:22:47,400 | 01:22:49,400 | 非常有名的金台科技論壇 |
| 01:22:49,400 | 01:22:51,400 | 算不算統戰平台 |
| 01:22:51,400 | 01:22:53,400 | 我想這個 |
| 01:22:53,400 | 01:22:55,400 | 經常在這個論壇 |
| 01:22:55,400 | 01:22:57,400 | 在兩岸做一些活動 |
| 01:22:57,400 | 01:22:59,400 | 主委有參加過嗎 |
| 01:22:59,400 | 01:23:01,400 | 我沒有 |
| 01:23:01,400 | 01:23:03,400 | 好那他是不是統戰平台 |
| 01:23:03,400 | 01:23:05,400 | 這個部分 |
| 01:23:05,400 | 01:23:07,400 | 他比較複雜啦 |
| 01:23:07,400 | 01:23:09,400 | 也經常在做這方面的工作 |
| 01:23:09,400 | 01:23:11,400 | 那有沒有統戰 |
| 01:23:11,400 | 01:23:13,400 | 那要看事實 |
| 01:23:13,400 | 01:23:15,400 | 要以事實來認定 |
| 01:23:15,400 | 01:23:17,400 | 所以 |
| 01:23:17,400 | 01:23:19,400 | 因為這個洪其昌連續兩年 |
| 01:23:19,400 | 01:23:21,400 | 都去參加這個金台科技論壇 |
| 01:23:21,400 | 01:23:23,400 | 而且都是座上賓 |
| 01:23:23,400 | 01:23:25,400 | 所以你現在不敢講他是統戰平台 |
| 01:23:25,400 | 01:23:27,400 | 所以現在是不是 |
| 01:23:27,400 | 01:23:29,400 | 招告我們全台灣的 |
| 01:23:29,400 | 01:23:31,400 | 這個台灣的企業 |
| 01:23:31,400 | 01:23:33,400 | 或者是退休的 |
| 01:23:33,400 | 01:23:35,400 | 退休或退下來的政務官 |
| 01:23:35,400 | 01:23:37,400 | 都可以去參加是這個意思嗎 |
| 01:23:37,400 | 01:23:39,400 | 是委員 |
| 01:23:39,400 | 01:23:41,400 | 您如果說有人檢舉 |
| 01:23:41,400 | 01:23:43,400 | 我們都會來受理 |
| 01:23:43,400 | 01:23:45,400 | 我不會檢舉啊我不會那麼無聊 |
| 01:23:45,400 | 01:23:47,400 | 我只是要問你們的定義啊 |
| 01:23:47,400 | 01:23:49,400 | 因為你們的定義不能新潮流說了算 |
| 01:23:49,400 | 01:23:51,400 | 我剛才講呂退之也好 |
| 01:23:51,400 | 01:23:53,400 | 洪其昌也好都是新潮流的 |
| 01:23:53,400 | 01:23:55,400 | 然後他們退下來都在遊走兩岸啊 |
| 01:23:55,400 | 01:23:57,400 | 他們遊走兩岸沒有問題 |
| 01:23:57,400 | 01:23:59,400 | 那別人去賣水果到中國大陸就有問題 |
| 01:23:59,400 | 01:24:01,400 | 我現在關心的是這個部分 |
| 01:24:01,400 | 01:24:03,400 | 我了解謝謝委員 |
| 01:24:03,400 | 01:24:05,400 | 委員我們 |
| 01:24:05,400 | 01:24:07,400 | 把它定位成統戰平台的 |
| 01:24:07,400 | 01:24:09,400 | 我們陸委會 |
| 01:24:09,400 | 01:24:11,400 | 從2012年每次都講 |
| 01:24:11,400 | 01:24:13,400 | 就是海峽論壇一到現在也沒改變 |
| 01:24:13,400 | 01:24:15,400 | 而且是從馬總統時代 |
| 01:24:15,400 | 01:24:17,400 | 就開始呼籲 |
| 01:24:17,400 | 01:24:19,400 | 不要去這個統戰平台 |
| 01:24:19,400 | 01:24:21,400 | 只針對海峽論壇 |
| 01:24:21,400 | 01:24:23,400 | 好所以你們現在只針對海峽論壇 |
| 01:24:23,400 | 01:24:25,400 | 像金台科技論壇裡面 |
| 01:24:25,400 | 01:24:27,400 | 參加的這個 |
| 01:24:27,400 | 01:24:29,400 | 大陸的官員 |
| 01:24:29,400 | 01:24:31,400 | 一樣的事啊就是要大家 |
| 01:24:31,400 | 01:24:33,400 | 共同完成祖國統一大業的 |
| 01:24:33,400 | 01:24:35,400 | 這樣的這個說明啊 |
| 01:24:35,400 | 01:24:37,400 | 談話啊 |
| 01:24:37,400 | 01:24:39,400 | 所以這個都不算是統戰平台 |
| 01:24:39,400 | 01:24:41,400 | 在這個金台論壇裡面 |
| 01:24:41,400 | 01:24:43,400 | 大陸官員參加 |
| 01:24:43,400 | 01:24:45,400 | 也一定都會講 |
| 01:24:45,400 | 01:24:47,400 | 這個是就是兩岸 |
| 01:24:47,400 | 01:24:49,400 | 兩岸要共同完成祖國統一大業 |
| 01:24:49,400 | 01:24:51,400 | 那這樣子的論壇 |
| 01:24:51,400 | 01:24:53,400 | 不算是 |
| 01:24:53,400 | 01:24:55,400 | 不算是統戰平台 |
| 01:24:55,400 | 01:24:57,400 | 在陸委會的定義裡面不算是 |
| 01:24:57,400 | 01:24:59,400 | 對不對因為現在只有海峽論壇 |
| 01:24:59,400 | 01:25:01,400 | 如果有人檢舉我們都會來 |
| 01:25:01,400 | 01:25:03,400 | 如果說委員 |
| 01:25:03,400 | 01:25:05,400 | 我就跟你講啊 |
| 01:25:05,400 | 01:25:07,400 | 我不會檢舉因為我是要來質詢 |
| 01:25:07,400 | 01:25:09,400 | 我是要來質詢 |
| 01:25:09,400 | 01:25:11,400 | 因為很多的 |
| 01:25:11,400 | 01:25:13,400 | 企業也好民眾也好 |
| 01:25:13,400 | 01:25:15,400 | 人民團體也好 |
| 01:25:15,400 | 01:25:17,400 | 不知道什麼時候 |
| 01:25:17,400 | 01:25:19,400 | 就變成我們 |
| 01:25:19,400 | 01:25:21,400 | 陸委會所謂你被統戰的 |
| 01:25:21,400 | 01:25:23,400 | 好對象然後 |
| 01:25:23,400 | 01:25:25,400 | 要被調查啊 |
| 01:25:25,400 | 01:25:27,400 | 對於農民團體來講他參加 |
| 01:25:27,400 | 01:25:29,400 | 一個海峽論壇他就 |
| 01:25:29,400 | 01:25:31,400 | 要被調查那對於這個 |
| 01:25:31,400 | 01:25:33,400 | 洪其昌來講數十 |
| 01:25:33,400 | 01:25:35,400 | 他還可以參加金台科技 |
| 01:25:35,400 | 01:25:37,400 | 論壇他不用被調查 |
| 01:25:37,400 | 01:25:39,400 | 那是不是我所以我就要問啊 |
| 01:25:39,400 | 01:25:41,400 | 因為我們很多的人民 |
| 01:25:41,400 | 01:25:43,400 | 很怕去觸犯陸委會 |
| 01:25:43,400 | 01:25:45,400 | 被所稱的被統戰嘛 |
| 01:25:45,400 | 01:25:47,400 | 這個大帽子一戴下來啊 |
| 01:25:47,400 | 01:25:49,400 | 這是 |
| 01:25:49,400 | 01:25:51,400 | 王委員啊 |
| 01:25:51,400 | 01:25:53,400 | 因為委員很關切 |
| 01:25:53,400 | 01:25:55,400 | 那我們會來了解金台科技論壇 |
| 01:25:55,400 | 01:25:57,400 | 好我要講的是 |
| 01:25:57,400 | 01:25:59,400 | 請你多了解 |
| 01:25:59,400 | 01:26:01,400 | 在民進黨籍裡面 |
| 01:26:01,400 | 01:26:03,400 | 我剛剛講的兩個剛剛好都是 |
| 01:26:03,400 | 01:26:05,400 | 新潮流啦都是新潮流 |
| 01:26:05,400 | 01:26:07,400 | 主委也是然後 |
| 01:26:07,400 | 01:26:09,400 | 我們的副主委梁文傑也是 |
| 01:26:09,400 | 01:26:11,400 | 我要講的統不統戰 |
| 01:26:11,400 | 01:26:13,400 | 不應該陸委會說了算 |
| 01:26:13,400 | 01:26:15,400 | 或者是新潮流說了算 |
| 01:26:15,400 | 01:26:17,400 | 不要有雙標 |
| 01:26:17,400 | 01:26:19,400 | 不要有雙標 |
| 01:26:19,400 | 01:26:21,400 | 我們要為了今天針對 |
| 01:26:21,400 | 01:26:23,400 | 針對今天要針對 |
| 01:26:23,400 | 01:26:25,400 | 哪一個針對饒慶林也好 |
| 01:26:25,400 | 01:26:27,400 | 針對這個這個 |
| 01:26:27,400 | 01:26:29,400 | 我們這個特別的 |
| 01:26:29,400 | 01:26:31,400 | 這些農會也好然後呢 |
| 01:26:31,400 | 01:26:33,400 | 動輒用這種所謂的統戰的 |
| 01:26:33,400 | 01:26:35,400 | 大帽子我要講的 |
| 01:26:35,400 | 01:26:37,400 | 難以承受之重其實他們 |
| 01:26:37,400 | 01:26:39,400 | 做的事情都是一樣的 |
| 01:26:39,400 | 01:26:41,400 | 一個想要去賣咖啡 |
| 01:26:41,400 | 01:26:43,400 | 一個想要去賣水果 |
| 01:26:43,400 | 01:26:45,400 | 他們的行為有什麼差別呢 |
| 01:26:45,400 | 01:26:47,400 | 只是因為他們政黨不同流派不同報 |
| 01:26:47,400 | 01:26:49,400 | 是我們遇到證據 |
| 01:26:49,400 | 01:26:51,400 | 謝謝委員 |
| 01:26:51,400 | 01:26:53,400 | 王宏瑋委員謝謝 |
| 01:26:55,400 | 01:26:57,400 | 接下來我們請張宏祿委員詢答 |
| 01:27:09,400 | 01:27:11,400 | 請張宏祿委員 |
| 01:27:17,400 | 01:27:19,400 | 張宏祿委員好 |
| 01:27:19,400 | 01:27:21,400 | 主委其實 |
| 01:27:21,400 | 01:27:23,400 | 我們跟中國的關係 |
| 01:27:23,400 | 01:27:25,400 | 其實 |
| 01:27:25,400 | 01:27:27,400 | 有很多很多其實民眾 |
| 01:27:27,400 | 01:27:29,400 | 都不清楚 |
| 01:27:29,400 | 01:27:31,400 | 那我想在這邊請問一下 |
| 01:27:31,400 | 01:27:33,400 | 主委你知不知道 |
| 01:27:33,400 | 01:27:35,400 | 現在他們 |
| 01:27:35,400 | 01:27:37,400 | 透過很多管道 |
| 01:27:37,400 | 01:27:39,400 | 邀請我們台灣的學生 |
| 01:27:39,400 | 01:27:41,400 | 去中國訪問 |
| 01:27:41,400 | 01:27:43,400 | 這個你知不知道 |
| 01:27:43,400 | 01:27:45,400 | 是 |
| 01:27:45,400 | 01:27:47,400 | 每年都會透過很多管道 |
| 01:27:47,400 | 01:27:49,400 | 特別是暑假期間 |
| 01:27:49,400 | 01:27:51,400 | 那過去呢 |
| 01:27:51,400 | 01:27:53,400 | 如果人數多的還會在北京 |
| 01:27:53,400 | 01:27:55,400 | 萬人大會師 |
| 01:27:55,400 | 01:27:57,400 | 那在不同的地點有所謂千人會師 |
| 01:27:57,400 | 01:27:59,400 | 所以 |
| 01:27:59,400 | 01:28:01,400 | 暑假期間我們也特別 |
| 01:28:01,400 | 01:28:03,400 | 提醒教育部 |
| 01:28:03,400 | 01:28:05,400 | 跟所屬的學校 |
| 01:28:05,400 | 01:28:07,400 | 要能夠了解 |
| 01:28:07,400 | 01:28:09,400 | 我們贊成 |
| 01:28:09,400 | 01:28:11,400 | 對等尊嚴 |
| 01:28:11,400 | 01:28:13,400 | 沒有統戰正常健康有序的 |
| 01:28:13,400 | 01:28:15,400 | 學術或學生的交流 |
| 01:28:15,400 | 01:28:17,400 | 要完成請假程序 |
| 01:28:17,400 | 01:28:19,400 | 要上這個 |
| 01:28:19,400 | 01:28:21,400 | 兩岸教育活動的這些網站 |
| 01:28:21,400 | 01:28:23,400 | 來報備 |
| 01:28:23,400 | 01:28:25,400 | 但是我們不希望我們的學生 |
| 01:28:25,400 | 01:28:27,400 | 去到大陸 |
| 01:28:27,400 | 01:28:29,400 | 接待的是統戰部 |
| 01:28:29,400 | 01:28:31,400 | 接待是各地台辦 |
| 01:28:31,400 | 01:28:33,400 | 然後就進行統戰的行程 |
| 01:28:33,400 | 01:28:35,400 | 參觀紅色根據地 |
| 01:28:35,400 | 01:28:37,400 | 參觀各種的統戰愛國基地 |
| 01:28:37,400 | 01:28:39,400 | 為主的統戰行程 |
| 01:28:41,400 | 01:28:43,400 | 這個我們就需要 |
| 01:28:43,400 | 01:28:45,400 | 跟教育部 |
| 01:28:45,400 | 01:28:47,400 | 要求各學校能夠遵守 |
| 01:28:47,400 | 01:28:49,400 | 但現在有沒有參觀那些 |
| 01:28:49,400 | 01:28:51,400 | 你剛說的那些 |
| 01:28:51,400 | 01:28:53,400 | 我們這幾年 |
| 01:28:53,400 | 01:28:55,400 | 因為我想教育部 |
| 01:28:55,400 | 01:28:57,400 | 做了很多要求 |
| 01:28:57,400 | 01:28:59,400 | 我想監察院的報告 |
| 01:28:59,400 | 01:29:01,400 | 是從2021年 |
| 01:29:01,400 | 01:29:03,400 | 到2025年 |
| 01:29:03,400 | 01:29:05,400 | 特別是前幾年 |
| 01:29:05,400 | 01:29:07,400 | 確實比較多 |
| 01:29:07,400 | 01:29:09,400 | 這幾年我想 |
| 01:29:09,400 | 01:29:11,400 | 教育部非常積極負責 |
| 01:29:11,400 | 01:29:13,400 | 也積極的跟各學校說明 |
| 01:29:13,400 | 01:29:15,400 | 而且要搭配 |
| 01:29:15,400 | 01:29:17,400 | 剛說的這些 |
| 01:29:17,400 | 01:29:19,400 | 網路的這些登錄 |
| 01:29:19,400 | 01:29:21,400 | 那同時 |
| 01:29:21,400 | 01:29:23,400 | 在登錄的過程給大家 |
| 01:29:23,400 | 01:29:25,400 | 檢核安全的問題 |
| 01:29:25,400 | 01:29:27,400 | 而且配合上 |
| 01:29:27,400 | 01:29:29,400 | 這些試圖教育 |
| 01:29:29,400 | 01:29:31,400 | 所以我們現在的學生 |
| 01:29:31,400 | 01:29:33,400 | 附入第一個 |
| 01:29:33,400 | 01:29:35,400 | 數量減少 |
| 01:29:35,400 | 01:29:37,400 | 第二個也在各校做好 |
| 01:29:37,400 | 01:29:39,400 | 師生安全的保障 |
| 01:29:39,400 | 01:29:41,400 | 上完試圖教育 |
| 01:29:41,400 | 01:29:43,400 | 再去中國大陸交流 |
| 01:29:43,400 | 01:29:45,400 | 這樣比較不會 |
| 01:29:45,400 | 01:29:47,400 | 確定都有照主委你說的這樣做 |
| 01:29:47,400 | 01:29:49,400 | 那有很多是透過 |
| 01:29:49,400 | 01:29:51,400 | 網路上是在招攬的 |
| 01:29:51,400 | 01:29:53,400 | 是透過網路的 |
| 01:29:53,400 | 01:29:55,400 | 並不一定透過學校 |
| 01:29:55,400 | 01:29:57,400 | 這個部分 |
| 01:29:57,400 | 01:29:59,400 | 有做到主委你剛說的嗎 |
| 01:29:59,400 | 01:30:01,400 | 跟委員報告 |
| 01:30:01,400 | 01:30:03,400 | 我們那一套教育部的 |
| 01:30:03,400 | 01:30:05,400 | 這些登錄的平台 |
| 01:30:05,400 | 01:30:07,400 | 是要包括 |
| 01:30:07,400 | 01:30:09,400 | 老師 學生 |
| 01:30:09,400 | 01:30:11,400 | 或是單純學生 |
| 01:30:11,400 | 01:30:13,400 | 或者是學校出團 |
| 01:30:13,400 | 01:30:15,400 | 都必須要登錄 |
| 01:30:15,400 | 01:30:17,400 | 當然他有沒有可能找 |
| 01:30:17,400 | 01:30:19,400 | 社會的中間團體 |
| 01:30:19,400 | 01:30:21,400 | 來組團 |
| 01:30:21,400 | 01:30:23,400 | 那過去教育部也有 |
| 01:30:23,400 | 01:30:25,400 | 去規範這些 |
| 01:30:25,400 | 01:30:27,400 | 中介團體 |
| 01:30:27,400 | 01:30:29,400 | 我們希望這些中介團體 |
| 01:30:29,400 | 01:30:31,400 | 如果有帶師生 |
| 01:30:31,400 | 01:30:33,400 | 到中國大陸交流 |
| 01:30:33,400 | 01:30:35,400 | 第一個安全是第一 |
| 01:30:35,400 | 01:30:37,400 | 第二個就是不要有統戰的行程 |
| 01:30:37,400 | 01:30:39,400 | 通常 |
| 01:30:39,400 | 01:30:41,400 | 我們都會透過 |
| 01:30:41,400 | 01:30:43,400 | 各個學校 |
| 01:30:43,400 | 01:30:45,400 | 去要求去控管 |
| 01:30:45,400 | 01:30:47,400 | 因為還是要從學校來控管 |
| 01:30:47,400 | 01:30:49,400 | 比較適合 |
| 01:30:49,400 | 01:30:51,400 | 那我暑假我透過其他的民間團體 |
| 01:30:51,400 | 01:30:53,400 | 他在網路上 |
| 01:30:53,400 | 01:30:55,400 | 號召 |
| 01:30:55,400 | 01:30:57,400 | 有做到登記嗎 |
| 01:30:57,400 | 01:30:59,400 | 有做到百分之百嗎 |
| 01:30:59,400 | 01:31:01,400 | 我們就需要學生 |
| 01:31:01,400 | 01:31:03,400 | 如果去的話 |
| 01:31:03,400 | 01:31:05,400 | 有嗎 |
| 01:31:05,400 | 01:31:07,400 | 當然很難做到 |
| 01:31:07,400 | 01:31:09,400 | 不過大部分 |
| 01:31:09,400 | 01:31:11,400 | 都有按照規定 |
| 01:31:11,400 | 01:31:13,400 | 大部分就是 |
| 01:31:13,400 | 01:31:15,400 | 沒有全部 |
| 01:31:15,400 | 01:31:17,400 | 我們事實上發現 |
| 01:31:17,400 | 01:31:19,400 | 是沒有全部 |
| 01:31:19,400 | 01:31:21,400 | 那我為什麼 |
| 01:31:21,400 | 01:31:23,400 | 特別問這個問題 |
| 01:31:23,400 | 01:31:25,400 | 中國除了 |
| 01:31:25,400 | 01:31:27,400 | 宗教 |
| 01:31:27,400 | 01:31:29,400 | 除了一些反正 |
| 01:31:29,400 | 01:31:31,400 | 免費旅遊或什麼 |
| 01:31:31,400 | 01:31:33,400 | 越來越多了連學生越來越多了 |
| 01:31:33,400 | 01:31:35,400 | 這個連國小連什麼 |
| 01:31:35,400 | 01:31:37,400 | 我記得我上次質詢 |
| 01:31:37,400 | 01:31:39,400 | 也有問到 |
| 01:31:39,400 | 01:31:41,400 | 如果說 |
| 01:31:41,400 | 01:31:43,400 | 台親一家 |
| 01:31:43,400 | 01:31:45,400 | 他把很多這種 |
| 01:31:45,400 | 01:31:47,400 | 優秀的大學生 |
| 01:31:47,400 | 01:31:49,400 | 或什麼這樣子 |
| 01:31:49,400 | 01:31:51,400 | 這個也是對國安會 |
| 01:31:51,400 | 01:31:53,400 | 有很大的影響 |
| 01:31:53,400 | 01:31:55,400 | 他是整個都這樣子下來 |
| 01:31:55,400 | 01:31:57,400 | 教育部 |
| 01:31:57,400 | 01:31:59,400 | 你民間團體 |
| 01:31:59,400 | 01:32:01,400 | 教育部他有可能 |
| 01:32:01,400 | 01:32:03,400 | 去處理到民間團體嗎 |
| 01:32:03,400 | 01:32:05,400 | 他有可能是這樣重複 |
| 01:32:05,400 | 01:32:07,400 | 真的是有去 |
| 01:32:07,400 | 01:32:09,400 | 登入有去什麼的嗎 |
| 01:32:09,400 | 01:32:11,400 | 我覺得不大可能 |
| 01:32:11,400 | 01:32:13,400 | 而且 |
| 01:32:13,400 | 01:32:15,400 | 有沒有你們有沒有去 |
| 01:32:15,400 | 01:32:17,400 | 如果有登入有沒有 |
| 01:32:17,400 | 01:32:19,400 | 學生是重複去好幾次的 |
| 01:32:21,400 | 01:32:23,400 | 如果他都有上網登入 |
| 01:32:23,400 | 01:32:25,400 | 當然我們會發現 |
| 01:32:25,400 | 01:32:27,400 | 還有剛委員講 |
| 01:32:27,400 | 01:32:29,400 | 剛委員講他很可能是 |
| 01:32:29,400 | 01:32:31,400 | 社會團體 |
| 01:32:31,400 | 01:32:33,400 | 招攬的 |
| 01:32:33,400 | 01:32:35,400 | 這部分我們也在做跨部會的平台 |
| 01:32:35,400 | 01:32:37,400 | 當學校 |
| 01:32:37,400 | 01:32:39,400 | 教育部主管 |
| 01:32:39,400 | 01:32:41,400 | 如果是一般的社會團體 |
| 01:32:41,400 | 01:32:43,400 | 我們也請內政部來協助 |
| 01:32:43,400 | 01:32:45,400 | 如果有人檢舉 |
| 01:32:45,400 | 01:32:47,400 | 他疑似 |
| 01:32:47,400 | 01:32:49,400 | 違反我們兩岸條例的相關規範 |
| 01:32:49,400 | 01:32:51,400 | 那我們當然 |
| 01:32:51,400 | 01:32:53,400 | 就 |
| 01:32:53,400 | 01:32:55,400 | 如果說他是社會團體 |
| 01:32:55,400 | 01:32:57,400 | 那我們就請內政部來做 |
| 01:32:57,400 | 01:32:59,400 | 主管機關 |
| 01:32:59,400 | 01:33:01,400 | 來做有沒有違反相關的這些 |
| 01:33:01,400 | 01:33:03,400 | 查處或調查 |
| 01:33:03,400 | 01:33:05,400 | 目前我們都有做 |
| 01:33:05,400 | 01:33:07,400 | 目前有調查 |
| 01:33:07,400 | 01:33:09,400 | 對對對 |
| 01:33:09,400 | 01:33:11,400 | 我們各部會的協助 |
| 01:33:11,400 | 01:33:13,400 | 不用講名字 |
| 01:33:13,400 | 01:33:15,400 | 是不是我們 |
| 01:33:15,400 | 01:33:17,400 | 沒有大概就好了 |
| 01:33:17,400 | 01:33:19,400 | 不是考試 |
| 01:33:19,400 | 01:33:21,400 | 我知道有好幾個 |
| 01:33:21,400 | 01:33:23,400 | 就是蠻著名的團長 |
| 01:33:23,400 | 01:33:25,400 | 那我們就把名單送給委員 |
| 01:33:25,400 | 01:33:27,400 | 有沒有查出來 |
| 01:33:27,400 | 01:33:29,400 | 任何的 |
| 01:33:29,400 | 01:33:31,400 | 有沒有查出來任何的步伐 |
| 01:33:31,400 | 01:33:33,400 | 有然後也把它解散掉 |
| 01:33:33,400 | 01:33:35,400 | 也依法解散 |
| 01:33:35,400 | 01:33:37,400 | 那我們對這些 |
| 01:33:37,400 | 01:33:39,400 | 可能 |
| 01:33:39,400 | 01:33:41,400 | 接到中共 |
| 01:33:41,400 | 01:33:43,400 | 指示委託資助的相關團體 |
| 01:33:43,400 | 01:33:45,400 | 那這明顯的 |
| 01:33:45,400 | 01:33:47,400 | 就是一種統戰的交流 |
| 01:33:47,400 | 01:33:49,400 | 重點就是 |
| 01:33:49,400 | 01:33:51,400 | 重點要問你就是說 |
| 01:33:51,400 | 01:33:53,400 | 我們現在是把它解散對不對 |
| 01:33:53,400 | 01:33:55,400 | 好像沒有裁罰 |
| 01:33:55,400 | 01:33:57,400 | 沒有什麼任何 |
| 01:33:57,400 | 01:33:59,400 | 好像沒有 |
| 01:33:59,400 | 01:34:01,400 | 我想解散 |
| 01:34:01,400 | 01:34:03,400 | 就是一個 |
| 01:34:03,400 | 01:34:05,400 | 解散他可以另外再用一個 |
| 01:34:05,400 | 01:34:07,400 | 你覺不覺得需要修法 |
| 01:34:07,400 | 01:34:09,400 | 來防堵這一條 |
| 01:34:09,400 | 01:34:11,400 | 這個部分 |
| 01:34:11,400 | 01:34:13,400 | 我們當然 |
| 01:34:13,400 | 01:34:15,400 | 如果說他仍然 |
| 01:34:15,400 | 01:34:17,400 | 在另起爐灶 |
| 01:34:17,400 | 01:34:19,400 | 在以新的社團名義 |
| 01:34:19,400 | 01:34:21,400 | 那當然我們就需要 |
| 01:34:21,400 | 01:34:23,400 | 有更重的裁罰 |
| 01:34:23,400 | 01:34:25,400 | 這個我們 |
| 01:34:25,400 | 01:34:27,400 | 我只問你 |
| 01:34:27,400 | 01:34:29,400 | 如果修法來堵這個漏洞 |
| 01:34:29,400 | 01:34:31,400 | 你贊不贊成 |
| 01:34:31,400 | 01:34:33,400 | 這樣就好 |
| 01:34:33,400 | 01:34:35,400 | 你贊成 |
| 01:34:35,400 | 01:34:37,400 | 謝謝 |
| 01:34:39,400 | 01:34:41,400 | 謝謝張宏祿委員 |
| 01:34:41,400 | 01:34:43,400 | 謝謝 |
| 01:34:45,400 | 01:34:47,400 | 接下來我們請王美慧委員巡達 |
| 01:35:01,400 | 01:35:03,400 | 主席 |
| 01:35:03,400 | 01:35:05,400 | 請求主委 |
| 01:35:09,400 | 01:35:11,400 | 王委員你好 |
| 01:35:11,400 | 01:35:13,400 | 你好主委 |
| 01:35:13,400 | 01:35:15,400 | 本想要跟你探討今天 |
| 01:35:15,400 | 01:35:17,400 | 的問題 |
| 01:35:17,400 | 01:35:19,400 | 第一點就是我們的 |
| 01:35:19,400 | 01:35:21,400 | 檢察院查出來 |
| 01:35:21,400 | 01:35:23,400 | 在這個 |
| 01:35:23,400 | 01:35:25,400 | 一百十一年 |
| 01:35:25,400 | 01:35:27,400 | 到現在 |
| 01:35:27,400 | 01:35:29,400 | 不是大學生去的 |
| 01:35:29,400 | 01:35:31,400 | 現在是 |
| 01:35:31,400 | 01:35:33,400 | 國小國中 |
| 01:35:33,400 | 01:35:35,400 | 國中都去 |
| 01:35:35,400 | 01:35:37,400 | 在這個過程 |
| 01:35:37,400 | 01:35:39,400 | 這幾年 |
| 01:35:39,400 | 01:35:41,400 | 是一年 |
| 01:35:41,400 | 01:35:43,400 | 一年一直跟 |
| 01:35:43,400 | 01:35:45,400 | 很多人去的 |
| 01:35:45,400 | 01:35:47,400 | 主委本想跟你 |
| 01:35:47,400 | 01:35:49,400 | 請教一下 |
| 01:35:49,400 | 01:35:51,400 | 你知不知道這個嚴重性 |
| 01:35:51,400 | 01:35:53,400 | 是我們也有看到 |
| 01:35:53,400 | 01:35:55,400 | 這個檢察院的調查報告 |
| 01:35:55,400 | 01:35:57,400 | 特別剛剛委員說的 |
| 01:35:57,400 | 01:35:59,400 | 這個小學生附錄 |
| 01:35:59,400 | 01:36:01,400 | 狂飆了二十七倍 |
| 01:36:01,400 | 01:36:03,400 | 這也是非常 |
| 01:36:03,400 | 01:36:05,400 | 認為因為小學生 |
| 01:36:05,400 | 01:36:07,400 | 都自己去一定是大人 |
| 01:36:07,400 | 01:36:09,400 | 帶去的 |
| 01:36:09,400 | 01:36:11,400 | 這個部分我們也有去了解 |
| 01:36:11,400 | 01:36:13,400 | 為什麼那麼多 |
| 01:36:13,400 | 01:36:15,400 | 的民間團體招攬 |
| 01:36:15,400 | 01:36:17,400 | 小學生到中國 |
| 01:36:17,400 | 01:36:19,400 | 大陸一方面可能 |
| 01:36:19,400 | 01:36:21,400 | 有小學 |
| 01:36:21,400 | 01:36:23,400 | 小人帶去 |
| 01:36:23,400 | 01:36:25,400 | 大人帶去的那我們也 |
| 01:36:25,400 | 01:36:27,400 | 跟教育部 |
| 01:36:27,400 | 01:36:29,400 | 跟他們說要 |
| 01:36:29,400 | 01:36:31,400 | 再跟他們宣導強化 |
| 01:36:31,400 | 01:36:33,400 | 小學生附錄 |
| 01:36:33,400 | 01:36:35,400 | 風險也比較高 |
| 01:36:35,400 | 01:36:37,400 | 因為小朋友 |
| 01:36:37,400 | 01:36:39,400 | 也請他們要注意師生的安全之外 |
| 01:36:39,400 | 01:36:41,400 | 我們特別 |
| 01:36:41,400 | 01:36:43,400 | 也知道他的困境 |
| 01:36:43,400 | 01:36:45,400 | 因為許多的中小學 |
| 01:36:45,400 | 01:36:47,400 | 都是在地方 |
| 01:36:47,400 | 01:36:49,400 | 主管 |
| 01:36:49,400 | 01:36:51,400 | 所以教育部 |
| 01:36:51,400 | 01:36:53,400 | 可能很 |
| 01:36:53,400 | 01:36:55,400 | 困難去管到 |
| 01:36:55,400 | 01:36:57,400 | 各縣市特別是 |
| 01:36:57,400 | 01:36:59,400 | 他們的縣市首長 |
| 01:36:59,400 | 01:37:01,400 | 如果跟中國大陸比較 |
| 01:37:01,400 | 01:37:03,400 | 常往來的話 |
| 01:37:03,400 | 01:37:05,400 | 比較親善的話 |
| 01:37:05,400 | 01:37:07,400 | 他們的中小學學校 |
| 01:37:07,400 | 01:37:09,400 | 可能有樣學樣 |
| 01:37:09,400 | 01:37:11,400 | 也做得對中國比較 |
| 01:37:11,400 | 01:37:13,400 | 沒有戒心 |
| 01:37:13,400 | 01:37:15,400 | 事實上中國大陸對台灣 |
| 01:37:15,400 | 01:37:17,400 | 的統戰可以說從娃娃 |
| 01:37:17,400 | 01:37:19,400 | 抓起從小 |
| 01:37:19,400 | 01:37:21,400 | 就給你置入親中 |
| 01:37:21,400 | 01:37:23,400 | 的這些方法 |
| 01:37:23,400 | 01:37:25,400 | 主委你覺得這樣很厲害嗎 |
| 01:37:25,400 | 01:37:27,400 | 很厲害 |
| 01:37:27,400 | 01:37:29,400 | 在這個過程當中 |
| 01:37:29,400 | 01:37:31,400 | 現在說 |
| 01:37:31,400 | 01:37:33,400 | 那以前國中 |
| 01:37:33,400 | 01:37:35,400 | 國小國中 |
| 01:37:35,400 | 01:37:37,400 | 這是非常嚴重的 |
| 01:37:37,400 | 01:37:39,400 | 我們之前 |
| 01:37:39,400 | 01:37:41,400 | 討論的時候 |
| 01:37:41,400 | 01:37:43,400 | 大學生去 |
| 01:37:43,400 | 01:37:45,400 | 現在是國小跟國中 |
| 01:37:45,400 | 01:37:47,400 | 這樣去 |
| 01:37:47,400 | 01:37:49,400 | 那都幾千個 |
| 01:37:49,400 | 01:37:51,400 | 所以 |
| 01:37:51,400 | 01:37:53,400 | 在這裏面 |
| 01:37:53,400 | 01:37:55,400 | 包括電風 |
| 01:37:55,400 | 01:37:57,400 | 的教育部 |
| 01:37:57,400 | 01:37:59,400 | 教育局 |
| 01:37:59,400 | 01:38:01,400 | 他們 |
| 01:38:01,400 | 01:38:03,400 | 這兩個地方 |
| 01:38:03,400 | 01:38:05,400 | 從來不去 |
| 01:38:05,400 | 01:38:07,400 | 發掘也好 |
| 01:38:07,400 | 01:38:09,400 | 還是糾正也好 |
| 01:38:09,400 | 01:38:11,400 | 主委 |
| 01:38:11,400 | 01:38:13,400 | 你知道這種是在電風 |
| 01:38:13,400 | 01:38:15,400 | 管理的時候 |
| 01:38:15,400 | 01:38:17,400 | 是非常嚴重的 |
| 01:38:17,400 | 01:38:19,400 | 是 委員謝謝你 |
| 01:38:19,400 | 01:38:21,400 | 我們要因應中共 |
| 01:38:21,400 | 01:38:23,400 | 對台灣青少年統戰 |
| 01:38:23,400 | 01:38:25,400 | 不斷向下延伸的做法 |
| 01:38:25,400 | 01:38:27,400 | 特別是透過 |
| 01:38:27,400 | 01:38:29,400 | 跟各縣市的教育局 |
| 01:38:29,400 | 01:38:31,400 | 或者各縣市的 |
| 01:38:31,400 | 01:38:33,400 | 中小學 |
| 01:38:33,400 | 01:38:35,400 | 來進行這方面交流 |
| 01:38:35,400 | 01:38:37,400 | 我們已經有會同教育部 |
| 01:38:37,400 | 01:38:39,400 | 也拜託教育部相關機關 |
| 01:38:39,400 | 01:38:41,400 | 要能夠跟 |
| 01:38:41,400 | 01:38:43,400 | 地方各 |
| 01:38:43,400 | 01:38:45,400 | 中小學能夠 |
| 01:38:45,400 | 01:38:47,400 | 多做宣導 |
| 01:38:47,400 | 01:38:49,400 | 同時我們也很願意 |
| 01:38:49,400 | 01:38:51,400 | 對於中小學 |
| 01:38:51,400 | 01:38:53,400 | 你不去跟電影 |
| 01:38:53,400 | 01:38:55,400 | 電影的管理長 |
| 01:38:55,400 | 01:38:57,400 | 去 |
| 01:38:57,400 | 01:38:59,400 | 來說這個事情非常 |
| 01:38:59,400 | 01:39:01,400 | 嚴重 |
| 01:39:01,400 | 01:39:03,400 | 也要讓現在 |
| 01:39:03,400 | 01:39:05,400 | 市的國際 |
| 01:39:05,400 | 01:39:07,400 | 看的時候 |
| 01:39:07,400 | 01:39:09,400 | 是不是可以 |
| 01:39:09,400 | 01:39:11,400 | 在外面 |
| 01:39:11,400 | 01:39:13,400 | 有可能 |
| 01:39:13,400 | 01:39:15,400 | 我們也會去拜訪 |
| 01:39:15,400 | 01:39:17,400 | 你都說 |
| 01:39:17,400 | 01:39:19,400 | 要拜訪拜訪到現在 |
| 01:39:19,400 | 01:39:21,400 | 已經很嚴重 |
| 01:39:21,400 | 01:39:23,400 | 國際的報告中 |
| 01:39:23,400 | 01:39:25,400 | 都請外援 |
| 01:39:25,400 | 01:39:27,400 | 我報告 |
| 01:39:27,400 | 01:39:29,400 | 我們對國中小學的學生 |
| 01:39:29,400 | 01:39:31,400 | 老師特別是 |
| 01:39:31,400 | 01:39:33,400 | 我們都願意 |
| 01:39:33,400 | 01:39:35,400 | 跟他們說明 |
| 01:39:35,400 | 01:39:37,400 | 這個政策 |
| 01:39:37,400 | 01:39:39,400 | 提供 |
| 01:39:39,400 | 01:39:41,400 | 適度教育 |
| 01:39:41,400 | 01:39:43,400 | 這就是要向下 |
| 01:39:43,400 | 01:39:45,400 | 紮根所以我們現在 |
| 01:39:45,400 | 01:39:47,400 | 適度教育在大專院 |
| 01:39:47,400 | 01:39:49,400 | 在高中生已經展開 |
| 01:39:49,400 | 01:39:51,400 | 我們要向下紮根 |
| 01:39:51,400 | 01:39:53,400 | 我們要跟你說的是 |
| 01:39:53,400 | 01:39:55,400 | 你如果大學 |
| 01:39:55,400 | 01:39:57,400 | 擁有自己的 |
| 01:39:57,400 | 01:39:59,400 | 便說這是對國家 |
| 01:39:59,400 | 01:40:01,400 | 好不好 |
| 01:40:01,400 | 01:40:03,400 | 到現在國中國小 |
| 01:40:03,400 | 01:40:05,400 | 這是社會電影的 |
| 01:40:05,400 | 01:40:07,400 | 政府管理的 |
| 01:40:07,400 | 01:40:09,400 | 你說要去那裡 |
| 01:40:09,400 | 01:40:11,400 | 要上網登記 |
| 01:40:11,400 | 01:40:13,400 | 主委我會請問 |
| 01:40:13,400 | 01:40:15,400 | 到今天你要這時候 |
| 01:40:15,400 | 01:40:17,400 | 有多少 |
| 01:40:17,400 | 01:40:19,400 | 人 |
| 01:40:19,400 | 01:40:21,400 | 去登記的嗎 |
| 01:40:21,400 | 01:40:23,400 | 我想中小學 |
| 01:40:23,400 | 01:40:25,400 | 不是你想啦你要自己看 |
| 01:40:25,400 | 01:40:27,400 | 你自己看不懂 |
| 01:40:27,400 | 01:40:29,400 | 你是世紀的世界 |
| 01:40:29,400 | 01:40:31,400 | 你要去哪登記 |
| 01:40:31,400 | 01:40:33,400 | 不是這樣 |
| 01:40:33,400 | 01:40:35,400 | 因為我們要國家好好 |
| 01:40:35,400 | 01:40:37,400 | 不能扯扯利利 |
| 01:40:37,400 | 01:40:39,400 | 這樣沒什麼 |
| 01:40:39,400 | 01:40:41,400 | 關鍵 |
| 01:40:41,400 | 01:40:43,400 | 這是很大的問題 |
| 01:40:43,400 | 01:40:45,400 | 你一定要 |
| 01:40:45,400 | 01:40:47,400 | 一定要雖然 |
| 01:40:47,400 | 01:40:49,400 | 他有跟他們家的事大人 |
| 01:40:49,400 | 01:40:51,400 | 去 |
| 01:40:51,400 | 01:40:53,400 | 不過到現在他沒有登記 |
| 01:40:53,400 | 01:40:55,400 | 在你的登記 |
| 01:40:55,400 | 01:40:57,400 | 的當下 |
| 01:40:57,400 | 01:40:59,400 | 我們沒有登記 |
| 01:40:59,400 | 01:41:01,400 | 我們也沒辦法 |
| 01:41:01,400 | 01:41:03,400 | 來發落 |
| 01:41:03,400 | 01:41:05,400 | 現在這樣怎麼辦 |
| 01:41:05,400 | 01:41:07,400 | 我們覺得還是要 |
| 01:41:07,400 | 01:41:09,400 | 強化宣導 |
| 01:41:09,400 | 01:41:11,400 | 還是要 |
| 01:41:11,400 | 01:41:13,400 | 跟地方政府要求 |
| 01:41:13,400 | 01:41:15,400 | 那麼我們這些小朋友 |
| 01:41:15,400 | 01:41:17,400 | 主委我是怎麼這樣 |
| 01:41:17,400 | 01:41:19,400 | 今天8月初五 |
| 01:41:19,400 | 01:41:21,400 | 春24天 |
| 01:41:21,400 | 01:41:23,400 | 孩子就不去開課 |
| 01:41:23,400 | 01:41:25,400 | 在孩子 |
| 01:41:25,400 | 01:41:27,400 | 20幾天 |
| 01:41:27,400 | 01:41:29,400 | 中間你們都沒有去做到什麼 |
| 01:41:29,400 | 01:41:31,400 | 你有做到 |
| 01:41:31,400 | 01:41:33,400 | 對東地 |
| 01:41:33,400 | 01:41:35,400 | 的驚夢的東 |
| 01:41:35,400 | 01:41:37,400 | 孩子要去大陸 |
| 01:41:37,400 | 01:41:39,400 | 要去哪裡的東登記嗎 |
| 01:41:39,400 | 01:41:41,400 | 是 剛才報告 |
| 01:41:41,400 | 01:41:43,400 | 其實教育部早 |
| 01:41:43,400 | 01:41:45,400 | 都有發現這個問題 |
| 01:41:45,400 | 01:41:47,400 | 監察院的調查報告 |
| 01:41:47,400 | 01:41:49,400 | 只有到2025年 |
| 01:41:49,400 | 01:41:51,400 | 但是整個趨勢已經降下來 |
| 01:41:51,400 | 01:41:53,400 | 我們要感謝教育部一直在做宣導 |
| 01:41:53,400 | 01:41:55,400 | 包括地方政府 |
| 01:41:55,400 | 01:41:57,400 | 那未來我們也會去跟 |
| 01:41:57,400 | 01:41:59,400 | 地方政府 |
| 01:41:59,400 | 01:42:01,400 | 在強調這方面 |
| 01:42:01,400 | 01:42:03,400 | 我們願意提供各種的 |
| 01:42:03,400 | 01:42:05,400 | 教材課程 |
| 01:42:05,400 | 01:42:07,400 | 多元化的這些相關 |
| 01:42:07,400 | 01:42:09,400 | 對中國大陸的了解 |
| 01:42:09,400 | 01:42:11,400 | 也呼籲我們中小學的師資 |
| 01:42:11,400 | 01:42:13,400 | 因為都是跟老師有關 |
| 01:42:13,400 | 01:42:15,400 | 我們會去提供更多的 |
| 01:42:15,400 | 01:42:17,400 | 教材給中小學的 |
| 01:42:17,400 | 01:42:19,400 | 老師能夠了解 |
| 01:42:19,400 | 01:42:21,400 | 那麼對於特別帶小朋友 |
| 01:42:21,400 | 01:42:23,400 | 去中國大陸 |
| 01:42:23,400 | 01:42:25,400 | 這必須要符合政府相關的規範 |
| 01:42:25,400 | 01:42:27,400 | 還有因為 |
| 01:42:27,400 | 01:42:29,400 | 讓家長要同意 |
| 01:42:29,400 | 01:42:31,400 | 這個也蠻重要的 |
| 01:42:31,400 | 01:42:33,400 | 所以我們會努力 |
| 01:42:33,400 | 01:42:35,400 | 謝謝 |
| 01:42:35,400 | 01:42:37,400 | 主委 |
| 01:42:37,400 | 01:42:39,400 | 我告訴你 |
| 01:42:39,400 | 01:42:41,400 | 你看這個規定當中 |
| 01:42:41,400 | 01:42:43,400 | 以前國中的 |
| 01:42:43,400 | 01:42:45,400 | 是沒有改變的 |
| 01:42:45,400 | 01:42:47,400 | 到現在 |
| 01:42:47,400 | 01:42:49,400 | 一定是 |
| 01:42:49,400 | 01:42:51,400 | 1,021個 |
| 01:42:51,400 | 01:42:53,400 | 主委 |
| 01:42:53,400 | 01:42:55,400 | 這不是直接公布的 |
| 01:42:55,400 | 01:42:57,400 | 這樣就算了 |
| 01:42:57,400 | 01:42:59,400 | 我們還是必須去找 |
| 01:42:59,400 | 01:43:01,400 | 當地的管理長 |
| 01:43:01,400 | 01:43:03,400 | 來講 |
| 01:43:03,400 | 01:43:05,400 | 不是現在要 |
| 01:43:05,400 | 01:43:07,400 | 我們 |
| 01:43:07,400 | 01:43:09,400 | 再說 |
| 01:43:09,400 | 01:43:11,400 | 來啦 |
| 01:43:11,400 | 01:43:13,400 | 當地的管理長 |
| 01:43:13,400 | 01:43:15,400 | 說 |
| 01:43:15,400 | 01:43:17,400 | 到現在都沒有人上去 |
| 01:43:17,400 | 01:43:19,400 | 我們也不怕你 |
| 01:43:19,400 | 01:43:21,400 | 跟地方 |
| 01:43:21,400 | 01:43:23,400 | 也沒有信任 |
| 01:43:23,400 | 01:43:25,400 | 所以你覺得 |
| 01:43:25,400 | 01:43:27,400 | 地方沒有信任 |
| 01:43:27,400 | 01:43:29,400 | 因為孩子也 |
| 01:43:29,400 | 01:43:31,400 | 去大陸中國了 |
| 01:43:31,400 | 01:43:33,400 | 將近要回海了 |
| 01:43:33,400 | 01:43:35,400 | 要開學了 |
| 01:43:35,400 | 01:43:37,400 | 8月25號 |
| 01:43:37,400 | 01:43:39,400 | 主委你會怕嗎 |
| 01:43:39,400 | 01:43:41,400 | 會擔心嗎 |
| 01:43:41,400 | 01:43:43,400 | 當然 |
| 01:43:43,400 | 01:43:45,400 | 剛才也跟委員報告 |
| 01:43:45,400 | 01:43:47,400 | 經營度人數有減少很多 |
| 01:43:47,400 | 01:43:49,400 | 我們認為監察院這邊報告 |
| 01:43:49,400 | 01:43:51,400 | 還是非常難得 |
| 01:43:51,400 | 01:43:53,400 | 我們也有請教監委 |
| 01:43:53,400 | 01:43:55,400 | 確實在2021年到2025年 |
| 01:43:55,400 | 01:43:57,400 | 特別小學生 |
| 01:43:57,400 | 01:43:59,400 | 去的數目特別高 |
| 01:43:59,400 | 01:44:01,400 | 你說 |
| 01:44:01,400 | 01:44:03,400 | 有減少嗎 |
| 01:44:03,400 | 01:44:05,400 | 這兩年我們 |
| 01:44:05,400 | 01:44:07,400 | 教育部很努力在做 |
| 01:44:07,400 | 01:44:09,400 | 那你不努力 |
| 01:44:09,400 | 01:44:11,400 | 我們也有合作 |
| 01:44:11,400 | 01:44:13,400 | 我們都有合作 |
| 01:44:13,400 | 01:44:15,400 | 在這張我待會送給你 |
| 01:44:15,400 | 01:44:17,400 | 你說越來越少 |
| 01:44:17,400 | 01:44:19,400 | 是越來越少中 |
| 01:44:19,400 | 01:44:21,400 | 我知道 |
| 01:44:21,400 | 01:44:23,400 | 但是今天 |
| 01:44:23,400 | 01:44:25,400 | 都有減少很多 |
| 01:44:25,400 | 01:44:27,400 | 主委 |
| 01:44:27,400 | 01:44:29,400 | 我覺得這是保護 |
| 01:44:29,400 | 01:44:31,400 | 小孩子的思維 |
| 01:44:31,400 | 01:44:33,400 | 保護中華民國的台灣 |
| 01:44:33,400 | 01:44:35,400 | 的存在 |
| 01:44:35,400 | 01:44:37,400 | 因為你們畢竟 |
| 01:44:37,400 | 01:44:39,400 | 在第一手的時候 |
| 01:44:39,400 | 01:44:41,400 | 你們要看怎麼處理 |
| 01:44:41,400 | 01:44:43,400 | 不是這樣 |
| 01:44:43,400 | 01:44:45,400 | 你說越來越少 |
| 01:44:45,400 | 01:44:47,400 | 這越來越多 |
| 01:44:47,400 | 01:44:49,400 | 我了解 |
| 01:44:49,400 | 01:44:51,400 | 了解就要去做 |
| 01:44:51,400 | 01:44:53,400 | 不是了解而已 |
| 01:44:53,400 | 01:44:55,400 | 感謝委員 |
| 01:44:55,400 | 01:44:57,400 | 謝謝黃美慧委員 |
| 01:44:57,400 | 01:44:59,400 | 請徐主委人詢答案 |
| 01:45:21,400 | 01:45:23,400 | 黃美慧你好 |
| 01:45:23,400 | 01:45:25,400 | 剛剛其實你有提到說 |
| 01:45:25,400 | 01:45:27,400 | 中小生、父、母、路、父中 |
| 01:45:27,400 | 01:45:29,400 | 已經是高達了27倍 |
| 01:45:29,400 | 01:45:31,400 | 暴增的非常誇張 |
| 01:45:31,400 | 01:45:33,400 | 那甚至你也知道說 |
| 01:45:33,400 | 01:45:35,400 | 現在中共統戰的手法 |
| 01:45:35,400 | 01:45:37,400 | 就是要向娃娃伸手 |
| 01:45:37,400 | 01:45:39,400 | 所以第一個就是要請教 |
| 01:45:39,400 | 01:45:41,400 | 請問我們高中以下 |
| 01:45:41,400 | 01:45:43,400 | 包括國小、國中 |
| 01:45:43,400 | 01:45:45,400 | 這一些校園 |
| 01:45:45,400 | 01:45:47,400 | 如果他們是父中交流的這些活動 |
| 01:45:47,400 | 01:45:49,400 | 你們都有掌握嗎 |
| 01:45:49,400 | 01:45:51,400 | 跟委員坦承 |
| 01:45:51,400 | 01:45:53,400 | 過去對於 |
| 01:45:53,400 | 01:45:55,400 | 各地方政府的中小學 |
| 01:45:55,400 | 01:45:59,400 | 包括連教育部的影響力 |
| 01:45:59,400 | 01:46:01,400 | 或是宣導 |
| 01:46:01,400 | 01:46:03,400 | 能不能向下落實 |
| 01:46:03,400 | 01:46:05,400 | 都比較容易 |
| 01:46:05,400 | 01:46:07,400 | 有沒有落實的地方 |
| 01:46:07,400 | 01:46:09,400 | 看起來是沒有 |
| 01:46:09,400 | 01:46:11,400 | 因為其實監察院的這個報告 |
| 01:46:11,400 | 01:46:13,400 | 裡面也有提到說 |
| 01:46:13,400 | 01:46:15,400 | 雖然我們高中以下 |
| 01:46:15,400 | 01:46:17,400 | 父中的人數是已經成長到27倍了 |
| 01:46:17,400 | 01:46:19,400 | 但是 |
| 01:46:19,400 | 01:46:21,400 | 教育部針對兩岸交流的 |
| 01:46:21,400 | 01:46:23,400 | 維師進行處置的 |
| 01:46:23,400 | 01:46:25,400 | 只有32次裡面 |
| 01:46:25,400 | 01:46:27,400 | 都是大專院校 |
| 01:46:27,400 | 01:46:29,400 | 也就是說掌握度比較高的 |
| 01:46:29,400 | 01:46:31,400 | 還是只有大學以上 |
| 01:46:31,400 | 01:46:33,400 | 那高中以下甚至是 |
| 01:46:33,400 | 01:46:35,400 | 發現說這是一個非常大的 |
| 01:46:35,400 | 01:46:37,400 | 安全的隱憂跟一個破口 |
| 01:46:37,400 | 01:46:39,400 | 所以我在這邊想要請教的是 |
| 01:46:39,400 | 01:46:41,400 | 我們陸委會跟教育部這邊 |
| 01:46:41,400 | 01:46:43,400 | 到底現在 |
| 01:46:43,400 | 01:46:45,400 | 跨部會討論的怎麼樣 |
| 01:46:45,400 | 01:46:47,400 | 如何進一步的 |
| 01:46:47,400 | 01:46:49,400 | 去防範這些事情的發生 |
| 01:46:49,400 | 01:46:51,400 | 謝謝委員 |
| 01:46:51,400 | 01:46:53,400 | 我覺得跨部會沒有問題 |
| 01:46:53,400 | 01:46:55,400 | 我們跟教育部內政部 |
| 01:46:55,400 | 01:46:57,400 | 跟相關的部會 |
| 01:46:57,400 | 01:46:59,400 | 我們協作的都非常的好 |
| 01:46:59,400 | 01:47:01,400 | 那現在我們要努力的 |
| 01:47:01,400 | 01:47:03,400 | 就是剛剛委員所說的 |
| 01:47:03,400 | 01:47:05,400 | 必須要跟地方政府 |
| 01:47:05,400 | 01:47:07,400 | 跟各縣市政府 |
| 01:47:07,400 | 01:47:09,400 | 跟我們拜託 |
| 01:47:09,400 | 01:47:11,400 | 從娃娃抓起我們不應該去配合 |
| 01:47:11,400 | 01:47:13,400 | 中共的統戰 |
| 01:47:13,400 | 01:47:15,400 | 而且這些小朋友 |
| 01:47:15,400 | 01:47:17,400 | 或是國中生 |
| 01:47:17,400 | 01:47:19,400 | 他們對很多 |
| 01:47:19,400 | 01:47:21,400 | 的認知概念還在醞釀當中 |
| 01:47:21,400 | 01:47:23,400 | 馬上帶去中國大陸 |
| 01:47:23,400 | 01:47:25,400 | 對他們 |
| 01:47:25,400 | 01:47:27,400 | 洗腦或是注入他們 |
| 01:47:27,400 | 01:47:29,400 | 的這些 |
| 01:47:29,400 | 01:47:31,400 | 中共的這些認知 |
| 01:47:31,400 | 01:47:33,400 | 這個對他們未來的養成 |
| 01:47:33,400 | 01:47:35,400 | 發展並不健康 |
| 01:47:35,400 | 01:47:37,400 | 那麼我們也認為這個對 |
| 01:47:37,400 | 01:47:39,400 | 我們台灣 |
| 01:47:39,400 | 01:47:41,400 | 的小孩而言 |
| 01:47:41,400 | 01:47:43,400 | 都是一個風險 |
| 01:47:43,400 | 01:47:45,400 | 所以如果去參觀的地方 |
| 01:47:45,400 | 01:47:47,400 | 都是中共的統戰愛國基地 |
| 01:47:47,400 | 01:47:49,400 | 都是他的紅色的 |
| 01:47:49,400 | 01:47:51,400 | 企業或是 |
| 01:47:51,400 | 01:47:53,400 | 宣傳的基地 |
| 01:47:53,400 | 01:47:55,400 | 那這個容易累積錯誤的 |
| 01:47:55,400 | 01:47:57,400 | 資訊這個並不好 |
| 01:47:57,400 | 01:47:59,400 | 所以我們也會跟地方 |
| 01:47:59,400 | 01:48:01,400 | 政府來加強溝通 |
| 01:48:01,400 | 01:48:03,400 | 那麼希望教育部 |
| 01:48:03,400 | 01:48:05,400 | 的這些四讀教育 |
| 01:48:05,400 | 01:48:07,400 | 可以向下延伸到中小學 |
| 01:48:07,400 | 01:48:09,400 | 的老師甚至一般的 |
| 01:48:09,400 | 01:48:11,400 | 同學 |
| 01:48:11,400 | 01:48:13,400 | 我在想啊除了宣導之外 |
| 01:48:13,400 | 01:48:15,400 | 第一個是高中以下 |
| 01:48:15,400 | 01:48:17,400 | 雖然主管機關是地方政府 |
| 01:48:17,400 | 01:48:19,400 | 但是我們陸委會 |
| 01:48:19,400 | 01:48:21,400 | 有沒有辦法定一個準則 |
| 01:48:21,400 | 01:48:23,400 | 要求高中職以下的 |
| 01:48:23,400 | 01:48:25,400 | 就算是學校他們 |
| 01:48:25,400 | 01:48:27,400 | 要提供這些交流團的資訊 |
| 01:48:27,400 | 01:48:29,400 | 或者是他們要附中 |
| 01:48:29,400 | 01:48:31,400 | 都還是要經過一定的申報程序 |
| 01:48:31,400 | 01:48:33,400 | 陸委會這邊 |
| 01:48:33,400 | 01:48:35,400 | 有沒有機會是做這樣的處置 |
| 01:48:35,400 | 01:48:37,400 | 因為不然變得你們 |
| 01:48:37,400 | 01:48:39,400 | 完全無法掌握啊 |
| 01:48:39,400 | 01:48:41,400 | 他們透過各種可能教師 |
| 01:48:41,400 | 01:48:43,400 | 可能在這種學生群組的也有 |
| 01:48:43,400 | 01:48:45,400 | 那甚至是我也知道說 |
| 01:48:45,400 | 01:48:47,400 | 很多的民間團體 |
| 01:48:47,400 | 01:48:49,400 | 甚至是他們會直接跟學校的 |
| 01:48:49,400 | 01:48:51,400 | 可能什麼推廣處聯絡 |
| 01:48:51,400 | 01:48:53,400 | 或者是行政單位聯絡 |
| 01:48:53,400 | 01:48:55,400 | 那就是說幫我們轉發資訊就好 |
| 01:48:55,400 | 01:48:57,400 | 那甚至他的單位是民間單位喔 |
| 01:48:57,400 | 01:48:59,400 | 就例如說什麼 |
| 01:48:59,400 | 01:49:01,400 | 之前有一些什麼 |
| 01:49:01,400 | 01:49:03,400 | 公共事務管理學會 |
| 01:49:03,400 | 01:49:05,400 | 類似這樣他們就說請幫我們發一下資訊 |
| 01:49:05,400 | 01:49:07,400 | 然後我們這邊可以落地 |
| 01:49:07,400 | 01:49:09,400 | 交代的這種都有 |
| 01:49:09,400 | 01:49:11,400 | 那甚至還有知道說有一些什麼 |
| 01:49:11,400 | 01:49:13,400 | 暑期的交流團那些都是民間團體 |
| 01:49:13,400 | 01:49:15,400 | 請學校甚至是直接跟老師聯絡 |
| 01:49:15,400 | 01:49:17,400 | 幫我們發一下資訊 |
| 01:49:17,400 | 01:49:19,400 | 我們這邊落地交代 |
| 01:49:19,400 | 01:49:21,400 | 然後內容是什麼 |
| 01:49:21,400 | 01:49:23,400 | 告訴你一些中共的會台政策 |
| 01:49:23,400 | 01:49:25,400 | 像你剛剛講的直接去帶你參訪一些紅色企業 |
| 01:49:25,400 | 01:49:27,400 | 就是有啊 |
| 01:49:27,400 | 01:49:29,400 | 這些事情非常多不斷的在發生 |
| 01:49:29,400 | 01:49:31,400 | 那你現在只跟我說 |
| 01:49:31,400 | 01:49:33,400 | 我們會跟地方政府來宣導 |
| 01:49:33,400 | 01:49:35,400 | 因為他們是主管機關 |
| 01:49:35,400 | 01:49:37,400 | 這樣怎麼對呢 |
| 01:49:37,400 | 01:49:39,400 | 那位委員喔 |
| 01:49:39,400 | 01:49:41,400 | 委員剛剛講的那些形態類型 |
| 01:49:41,400 | 01:49:43,400 | 包括很多的一些公共協會 |
| 01:49:43,400 | 01:49:45,400 | 一些社團 |
| 01:49:45,400 | 01:49:47,400 | 他組織這些學生 |
| 01:49:47,400 | 01:49:49,400 | 附錄 |
| 01:49:49,400 | 01:49:51,400 | 剛剛有一些委員提到類似的 |
| 01:49:51,400 | 01:49:53,400 | 我們都歡迎跟我們檢舉 |
| 01:49:53,400 | 01:49:55,400 | 歡迎家長跟我們檢舉 |
| 01:49:55,400 | 01:49:57,400 | 那麼我們 |
| 01:49:57,400 | 01:49:59,400 | 就會依照兩岸條例相關的規範 |
| 01:49:59,400 | 01:50:01,400 | 比如說未徵 |
| 01:50:01,400 | 01:50:03,400 | 政府許可不得從事 |
| 01:50:03,400 | 01:50:05,400 | 這個有關 |
| 01:50:05,400 | 01:50:07,400 | 關於兩岸的這些 |
| 01:50:07,400 | 01:50:09,400 | 交流 |
| 01:50:09,400 | 01:50:11,400 | 各種的任何形式 |
| 01:50:11,400 | 01:50:13,400 | 的這些合作 |
| 01:50:13,400 | 01:50:15,400 | 的行為 |
| 01:50:15,400 | 01:50:17,400 | 我們都可以依照兩岸條例33條之一 |
| 01:50:17,400 | 01:50:19,400 | 那我們如果是屬於 |
| 01:50:19,400 | 01:50:21,400 | 內政部 |
| 01:50:21,400 | 01:50:23,400 | 管的這些團體 |
| 01:50:23,400 | 01:50:25,400 | 我們就交給 |
| 01:50:25,400 | 01:50:27,400 | 內政部來做主管機關 |
| 01:50:27,400 | 01:50:29,400 | 如果是相關的教育團體 |
| 01:50:29,400 | 01:50:31,400 | 那我們就交給教育部 |
| 01:50:31,400 | 01:50:33,400 | 我們都會來積極的查處 |
| 01:50:33,400 | 01:50:36,099 | 那至於委員剛剛有提到 |
| 01:50:36,099 | 01:50:39,799 | 是不是我們可以跟教育部再做一些法規 |
| 01:50:39,799 | 01:50:41,000 | 向下延伸 |
| 01:50:41,000 | 01:50:45,299 | 要求我們各中小學能夠有一個指引 |
| 01:50:45,299 | 01:50:48,799 | 或是要求他們要來上網 |
| 01:50:48,799 | 01:50:54,900 | 我們剛剛說的那個兩岸教育交流活動的登錄那個網站 |
| 01:50:54,900 | 01:50:56,599 | 那是給各級學校的 |
| 01:50:56,599 | 01:50:58,900 | 不是只有給大學生用 |
| 01:50:58,900 | 01:51:02,900 | 那這部分我們如何來做一些指引跟宣導 |
| 01:51:02,900 | 01:51:05,599 | 這可能我們跟教育部再來一些努力 |
| 01:51:05,599 | 01:51:08,099 | 好 我這邊具體建議 |
| 01:51:08,099 | 01:51:10,599 | 第一個是像剛剛主委說的 |
| 01:51:10,599 | 01:51:14,799 | 就是如果家長有發現這個是非常不對等 |
| 01:51:14,799 | 01:51:16,200 | 然後沒有尊嚴 |
| 01:51:16,200 | 01:51:18,099 | 甚至是很不正常的交流 |
| 01:51:18,099 | 01:51:20,599 | 就例如說他很明顯就是帶你去 |
| 01:51:20,599 | 01:51:22,700 | 把這些什麼中共的會台政策 |
| 01:51:22,700 | 01:51:24,900 | 直接在他們的群組裡面宣傳 |
| 01:51:24,900 | 01:51:28,799 | 或者是他們就跟你說到這邊你都不用付錢 |
| 01:51:28,799 | 01:51:30,200 | 這個全部都免費 |
| 01:51:30,200 | 01:51:31,700 | 這是一看就有問題 |
| 01:51:31,800 | 01:51:34,000 | 那請這個有發現的人 |
| 01:51:34,000 | 01:51:36,500 | 及早的跟我們陸委會來通報 |
| 01:51:36,500 | 01:51:38,099 | 來檢舉這個都要 |
| 01:51:38,099 | 01:51:41,099 | 那另外一方面就是這一些人民團體 |
| 01:51:41,099 | 01:51:43,200 | 因為我看教育部的回應是說 |
| 01:51:43,200 | 01:51:45,500 | 因為人民團體不是教育部管的 |
| 01:51:45,500 | 01:51:49,000 | 所以人民團體就算是藉由學校這個管道 |
| 01:51:49,000 | 01:51:51,200 | 去跟學生去收攏 |
| 01:51:51,200 | 01:51:53,800 | 去把這些娃娃抓起來 |
| 01:51:53,800 | 01:51:56,200 | 但是教育部罰不到 |
| 01:51:56,200 | 01:51:57,599 | 罰不到 |
| 01:51:57,599 | 01:51:59,500 | 因為他們說人民團體不是他們管 |
| 01:51:59,500 | 01:52:01,099 | 這個要跟內政部講 |
| 01:52:01,200 | 01:52:04,100 | 但問題是教育部也沒有跟內政部講 |
| 01:52:04,700 | 01:52:07,100 | 所以你們跨部會的協調非常重要 |
| 01:52:07,100 | 01:52:08,200 | 這個通報的機制 |
| 01:52:08,200 | 01:52:09,700 | 拜託務必建立 |
| 01:52:09,700 | 01:52:10,500 | 是 |
| 01:52:10,500 | 01:52:11,300 | 這個遊路 |
| 01:52:11,300 | 01:52:14,100 | 跟委員保證現在不會有所謂 |
| 01:52:14,100 | 01:52:15,700 | 監委說什麼互踢彼酒 |
| 01:52:15,700 | 01:52:16,800 | 不可能 |
| 01:52:16,800 | 01:52:18,500 | 現在我們各部會 |
| 01:52:18,500 | 01:52:21,600 | 我們都一起在相同的平台 |
| 01:52:21,600 | 01:52:23,900 | 一起協力分工合作 |
| 01:52:23,900 | 01:52:25,600 | 而且我們合作很愉快 |
| 01:52:25,600 | 01:52:26,300 | 謝謝 |
| 01:52:26,300 | 01:52:28,900 | 好這個也沒有什麼愉不愉快的問題 |
| 01:52:28,900 | 01:52:30,700 | 就是拜託一定要做到 |
| 01:52:30,700 | 01:52:31,900 | 最後一點 |
| 01:52:31,900 | 01:52:33,800 | 請你們提供這一些 |
| 01:52:33,800 | 01:52:36,800 | 他們統戰形式的樣態 |
| 01:52:36,800 | 01:52:39,000 | 讓家長可以知道怎麼查核 |
| 01:52:39,000 | 01:52:39,800 | 知道說 |
| 01:52:39,800 | 01:52:41,200 | 一看這個就是有問題 |
| 01:52:41,200 | 01:52:42,800 | 不然他們不知道怎麼識別 |
| 01:52:42,800 | 01:52:43,500 | 就例如說 |
| 01:52:43,500 | 01:52:45,700 | 他們其實統戰都有個套路 |
| 01:52:45,700 | 01:52:47,300 | 然後去看哪些企業 |
| 01:52:47,300 | 01:52:48,500 | 去看他們說什麼 |
| 01:52:48,500 | 01:52:51,200 | 看似中國很繁華的這些地方 |
| 01:52:51,200 | 01:52:52,800 | 他們其實都有個清單 |
| 01:52:52,800 | 01:52:54,000 | 你們多提供 |
| 01:52:54,000 | 01:52:55,099 | 讓家長知道說 |
| 01:52:55,099 | 01:52:57,800 | 一看就知道他們心裡會有一個意識在 |
| 01:52:57,800 | 01:52:58,500 | 好不好 |
| 01:52:58,500 | 01:52:59,000 | 好 |
| 01:52:59,000 | 01:52:59,599 | 好謝謝 |
| 01:52:59,700 | 01:53:00,200 | 謝謝 |
| 01:53:00,200 | 01:53:00,800 | 謝謝委員 |
| 01:53:02,700 | 01:53:03,700 | 謝謝黃捷委員 |
| 01:53:03,700 | 01:53:05,500 | 接下來我們請廖先祥周委 |
| 01:53:14,200 | 01:53:14,800 | 好謝謝主席 |
| 01:53:14,800 | 01:53:15,600 | 麻煩我們抽嘴 |
| 01:53:22,000 | 01:53:22,900 | 廖委員你好 |
| 01:53:22,900 | 01:53:24,600 | 那個周委早安 |
| 01:53:24,600 | 01:53:25,100 | 早 |
| 01:53:25,100 | 01:53:26,600 | 這個先跟你 |
| 01:53:26,600 | 01:53:28,100 | 聊一個題外話 |
| 01:53:28,100 | 01:53:30,300 | 當然會跟今天的主題也是會有點關係 |
| 01:53:30,300 | 01:53:33,400 | 就是我們如果在討論一些外籍移工 |
| 01:53:33,400 | 01:53:36,400 | 在台灣的工作權益的時候 |
| 01:53:37,400 | 01:53:39,300 | 我們常常會有很多人的 |
| 01:53:39,300 | 01:53:41,100 | 包括我們現在國內的法 |
| 01:53:41,100 | 01:53:42,300 | 這個法律 |
| 01:53:42,300 | 01:53:43,400 | 大概都這樣規定 |
| 01:53:43,400 | 01:53:44,700 | 和他比照勞基法 |
| 01:53:44,700 | 01:53:47,500 | 不會因為外國人就有不同的待遇 |
| 01:53:47,500 | 01:53:49,100 | 原則上是這樣的規定 |
| 01:53:49,100 | 01:53:50,700 | 那會這樣子的規定一部分 |
| 01:53:50,700 | 01:53:52,700 | 當然是普世價值 |
| 01:53:52,700 | 01:53:55,000 | 這個人權等等的 |
| 01:53:55,000 | 01:53:57,600 | 但是裡面有一個很重要的精神是 |
| 01:53:57,600 | 01:53:58,800 | 我們也希望說 |
| 01:53:58,800 | 01:54:00,300 | 我們中華民國的國民 |
| 01:54:00,300 | 01:54:02,000 | 到外國去工作的時候 |
| 01:54:02,000 | 01:54:04,600 | 我們也不要被外國的法令歧視 |
| 01:54:04,600 | 01:54:06,200 | 所以從我們自己做起 |
| 01:54:06,200 | 01:54:07,300 | 也希望說 |
| 01:54:07,300 | 01:54:09,400 | 全世界的各個國家 |
| 01:54:09,400 | 01:54:11,800 | 都能夠有這樣子的一個普世價值 |
| 01:54:11,800 | 01:54:12,600 | 不要有歧視 |
| 01:54:12,600 | 01:54:13,800 | 不要有歧視 |
| 01:54:13,800 | 01:54:15,700 | 這個都是 |
| 01:54:15,700 | 01:54:17,100 | 為了自己的國民 |
| 01:54:17,100 | 01:54:19,600 | 那一樣的我們今天討論到 |
| 01:54:19,600 | 01:54:22,200 | 今天有討論到兩岸人關係條例 |
| 01:54:22,200 | 01:54:23,300 | 有提到這個 |
| 01:54:23,300 | 01:54:25,700 | 購買不動產的權的法令 |
| 01:54:25,800 | 01:54:28,000 | 或者是 |
| 01:54:28,000 | 01:54:28,700 | 居留了 |
| 01:54:28,700 | 01:54:29,400 | 這個不叫居留 |
| 01:54:29,400 | 01:54:31,300 | 這個叫 |
| 01:54:31,300 | 01:54:33,599 | 那個叫收容 |
| 01:54:33,599 | 01:54:36,099 | 就是購買不動產跟收容這兩個東西 |
| 01:54:36,099 | 01:54:37,099 | 那一樣的 |
| 01:54:37,099 | 01:54:38,099 | 我們都希望說 |
| 01:54:38,099 | 01:54:39,500 | 我們的國人 |
| 01:54:39,500 | 01:54:40,800 | 比如說我們台灣人 |
| 01:54:40,800 | 01:54:42,400 | 到大陸地區 |
| 01:54:42,400 | 01:54:44,400 | 我們不要被受到歧視 |
| 01:54:44,400 | 01:54:46,400 | 所以說 |
| 01:54:46,400 | 01:54:48,500 | 平等是非常重要的 |
| 01:54:48,500 | 01:54:49,800 | 那我們現在 |
| 01:54:49,800 | 01:54:53,099 | 台灣人到大陸去買房地產 |
| 01:54:53,099 | 01:54:55,200 | 有沒有怎樣相關的一個限制 |
| 01:54:55,200 | 01:54:56,099 | 例如說 |
| 01:54:56,099 | 01:54:57,500 | 現在委員提出來 |
| 01:54:57,500 | 01:54:59,200 | 如果屆明登記 |
| 01:54:59,200 | 01:55:00,300 | 可能有罰款 |
| 01:55:00,300 | 01:55:01,900 | 甚至在地政機關 |
| 01:55:01,900 | 01:55:04,300 | 就直接可以去做圖銷 |
| 01:55:04,300 | 01:55:06,200 | 就是類似沒收的一個概念 |
| 01:55:06,200 | 01:55:07,700 | 請問台灣人到大陸 |
| 01:55:07,700 | 01:55:10,700 | 買房地產有這樣子的一個規定嗎 |
| 01:55:12,700 | 01:55:13,200 | 委員 |
| 01:55:13,200 | 01:55:14,800 | 所以說不了解沒關係 |
| 01:55:14,800 | 01:55:16,200 | 對 我們並不清楚 |
| 01:55:16,200 | 01:55:20,099 | 台灣人去那邊買房地產 |
| 01:55:20,099 | 01:55:21,300 | 買什麼東西 |
| 01:55:21,300 | 01:55:23,599 | 買怎樣的一種內容物 |
| 01:55:23,600 | 01:55:24,800 | 在中央跟地方 |
| 01:55:24,800 | 01:55:26,200 | 是不是有什麼條件 |
| 01:55:26,200 | 01:55:27,700 | 我相信他們一定有他們的規定 |
| 01:55:27,700 | 01:55:29,600 | 畢竟他們國家的管制是比較嚴格的 |
| 01:55:29,600 | 01:55:30,500 | 但是我們 |
| 01:55:30,500 | 01:55:32,200 | 好像我自己沒有查到說 |
| 01:55:32,200 | 01:55:33,800 | 我們台灣人要在那邊買房子 |
| 01:55:33,800 | 01:55:35,800 | 就需要經過我們像這樣 |
| 01:55:35,800 | 01:55:37,500 | 一些特定審查的流程 |
| 01:55:37,500 | 01:55:39,200 | 或是相關的一些規範 |
| 01:55:39,200 | 01:55:40,300 | 或屆明登記 |
| 01:55:40,300 | 01:55:42,000 | 有相關的罰則等等的 |
| 01:55:42,000 | 01:55:42,900 | 應該是沒有 |
| 01:55:42,900 | 01:55:44,100 | 那我們現行的規定 |
| 01:55:44,100 | 01:55:45,500 | 其實就已經比 |
| 01:55:45,500 | 01:55:47,400 | 大陸對我們台灣人民 |
| 01:55:47,400 | 01:55:48,700 | 來的嚴苛了 |
| 01:55:48,700 | 01:55:49,600 | 就像我們 |
| 01:55:49,600 | 01:55:50,900 | 現在對於大陸人民 |
| 01:55:50,900 | 01:55:52,700 | 在台灣購買房地產的規定 |
| 01:55:52,800 | 01:55:56,000 | 跟台灣的人民到大陸去買 |
| 01:55:56,000 | 01:55:57,300 | 房地產規定 |
| 01:55:57,300 | 01:55:59,700 | 看起來是大陸人民來台灣 |
| 01:55:59,700 | 01:56:01,500 | 買房地產規定是比較嚴格的 |
| 01:56:01,500 | 01:56:02,900 | 我想也不至於 |
| 01:56:02,900 | 01:56:05,099 | 基本上我們就是許可制 |
| 01:56:05,099 | 01:56:07,700 | 對 我們台灣人去買 |
| 01:56:07,700 | 01:56:08,500 | 也是要許可 |
| 01:56:08,500 | 01:56:09,700 | 原則上是 |
| 01:56:09,700 | 01:56:11,000 | 不會有這些審查的流程 |
| 01:56:11,000 | 01:56:14,099 | 我記得好像可能有一些 |
| 01:56:14,099 | 01:56:15,200 | 訂性的規定 |
| 01:56:15,200 | 01:56:17,599 | 但是他可能沒有許可的流程 |
| 01:56:17,599 | 01:56:18,200 | 那就變成說 |
| 01:56:18,200 | 01:56:19,900 | 我們現在比他嚴格的規定 |
| 01:56:19,900 | 01:56:21,300 | 我想他們一定有許可性 |
| 01:56:21,300 | 01:56:23,300 | 流程或者程序 |
| 01:56:23,300 | 01:56:25,400 | 包括我們也是許可制 |
| 01:56:25,400 | 01:56:28,900 | 那因為台灣這個土地有限 |
| 01:56:28,900 | 01:56:29,900 | 中國大陸可能會 |
| 01:56:29,900 | 01:56:32,400 | 透過大量的資金來購買 |
| 01:56:32,400 | 01:56:34,200 | 所以我們現在的規定 |
| 01:56:34,200 | 01:56:35,300 | 就是有相關的規定 |
| 01:56:35,300 | 01:56:36,200 | 我並不是說 |
| 01:56:36,200 | 01:56:37,600 | 要請你現在就放寬 |
| 01:56:37,600 | 01:56:38,300 | 那我現在放寬 |
| 01:56:38,300 | 01:56:39,400 | 那可能就變成一個政治問題 |
| 01:56:39,400 | 01:56:41,100 | 等等會不想在這方面去吵架 |
| 01:56:41,100 | 01:56:42,100 | 但是我今天的精神 |
| 01:56:42,100 | 01:56:43,600 | 就回到剛剛 |
| 01:56:43,600 | 01:56:45,300 | 這個外籍公司台灣 |
| 01:56:45,300 | 01:56:47,000 | 工作的一個權力來看 |
| 01:56:47,000 | 01:56:49,300 | 我們今天要想的是什麼 |
| 01:56:49,300 | 01:56:50,300 | 我們要想的事情 |
| 01:56:50,300 | 01:56:52,500 | 不是大陸人來這邊買東西 |
| 01:56:52,500 | 01:56:53,400 | 我們要對他做什麼 |
| 01:56:53,400 | 01:56:54,600 | 而是我們要擔心的是 |
| 01:56:54,600 | 01:56:57,400 | 如果我們對他有一些 |
| 01:56:57,400 | 01:56:58,800 | 過於不平等的地方 |
| 01:56:58,800 | 01:57:00,300 | 法令差異過拉的地方 |
| 01:57:00,300 | 01:57:02,100 | 未來大陸 |
| 01:57:02,100 | 01:57:04,000 | 會不會共產黨也對台灣 |
| 01:57:04,000 | 01:57:05,400 | 在那邊的台商或台灣流行 |
| 01:57:05,400 | 01:57:06,500 | 在那邊製產 |
| 01:57:06,500 | 01:57:07,700 | 也有類似的規定 |
| 01:57:07,700 | 01:57:09,800 | 我們有想過這個問題嗎 |
| 01:57:09,800 | 01:57:12,300 | 當然我們思考問題很多 |
| 01:57:12,300 | 01:57:15,400 | 我們因為來我們這邊買房地產 |
| 01:57:15,400 | 01:57:17,400 | 買這些不種產 |
| 01:57:17,400 | 01:57:18,700 | 基本上我們有很多 |
| 01:57:18,700 | 01:57:20,200 | 國家安全的考慮 |
| 01:57:20,200 | 01:57:21,900 | 因為台灣比較小 |
| 01:57:21,900 | 01:57:24,200 | 中資有可能 |
| 01:57:24,200 | 01:57:27,599 | 隱藏在各種的名目下 |
| 01:57:27,599 | 01:57:29,300 | 來採買 |
| 01:57:29,300 | 01:57:31,200 | 來大批的這些房地產 |
| 01:57:31,200 | 01:57:32,800 | 可能會涉及到國家安全 |
| 01:57:32,800 | 01:57:35,099 | 所以我們一定要落實許可 |
| 01:57:35,099 | 01:57:36,700 | 這是一定的 |
| 01:57:36,700 | 01:57:37,700 | 但是我們今天 |
| 01:57:37,700 | 01:57:39,400 | 委員的修法是說 |
| 01:57:39,400 | 01:57:41,500 | 特別是對於 |
| 01:57:41,500 | 01:57:43,300 | 今天我們可以沒入他們的財產 |
| 01:57:43,300 | 01:57:45,400 | 明天他們可不可以沒入我們台灣 |
| 01:57:45,400 | 01:57:46,400 | 人在那邊製的財產 |
| 01:57:46,400 | 01:57:48,000 | 我們要去思考這一點 |
| 01:57:48,000 | 01:57:49,500 | 我們今天可以對他去裁罰 |
| 01:57:49,500 | 01:57:51,100 | 明天他可不可以對我們台商 |
| 01:57:51,100 | 01:57:52,200 | 台灣人去裁罰 |
| 01:57:52,200 | 01:57:53,600 | 我們去思考這一點 |
| 01:57:53,600 | 01:57:55,600 | 所以說譬如說土地法 |
| 01:57:55,600 | 01:57:57,300 | 我們其實土地法對於外國人 |
| 01:57:57,300 | 01:57:58,600 | 在台灣購置不種產 |
| 01:57:58,600 | 01:58:00,600 | 有一個很明確的規定 |
| 01:58:00,600 | 01:58:03,100 | 叫做平等互惠原則 |
| 01:58:03,100 | 01:58:04,800 | 你允許我們台灣人怎麼樣 |
| 01:58:04,800 | 01:58:06,700 | 我們就允許台灣人 |
| 01:58:06,700 | 01:58:08,600 | 我們台灣就允許你那個國家 |
| 01:58:08,600 | 01:58:09,900 | 在我們台灣的規定是怎麼樣 |
| 01:58:09,900 | 01:58:11,400 | 當然兩岸目前的關係 |
| 01:58:11,400 | 01:58:13,200 | 不是那麼的平等 |
| 01:58:13,200 | 01:58:14,700 | 或者說他們對我們的威脅是比較大 |
| 01:58:14,700 | 01:58:17,200 | 我們有比較多的一個限制 |
| 01:58:17,200 | 01:58:18,200 | 這個我覺得合情合理 |
| 01:58:18,200 | 01:58:19,100 | 是沒有問題的 |
| 01:58:19,100 | 01:58:20,600 | 但是我們也必須去思考 |
| 01:58:20,600 | 01:58:22,600 | 就是剛剛我跟主委提到的一件事情 |
| 01:58:22,600 | 01:58:24,300 | 今天我們對他們怎麼樣 |
| 01:58:24,300 | 01:58:25,900 | 明天他們也有可能對我們怎樣 |
| 01:58:25,900 | 01:58:27,300 | 我也希望說你們站在 |
| 01:58:27,300 | 01:58:30,100 | 保護台灣人在大陸的 |
| 01:58:30,100 | 01:58:33,300 | 這個財產安全保障的情況下 |
| 01:58:33,300 | 01:58:34,300 | 去思考這個問題 |
| 01:58:34,300 | 01:58:35,300 | 另外一個也是 |
| 01:58:35,300 | 01:58:37,300 | 這個剛剛講的這個 |
| 01:58:37,300 | 01:58:41,300 | 要遣返的這個規定 |
| 01:58:41,300 | 01:58:43,300 | 目前我們的規定是 |
| 01:58:43,300 | 01:58:44,900 | 150天對不對 |
| 01:58:44,900 | 01:58:46,300 | 有的委員要提 |
| 01:58:46,300 | 01:58:48,500 | 可能在這段的情況下去延長 |
| 01:58:48,500 | 01:58:50,800 | 沒關係 這個有相關的一些 |
| 01:58:50,800 | 01:58:52,000 | 立場我們都尊重 |
| 01:58:52,000 | 01:58:54,000 | 那現在大陸對台灣人 |
| 01:58:54,000 | 01:58:57,000 | 要遣返最多可以做幾天的 |
| 01:58:57,000 | 01:59:00,000 | 這個剛剛這個叫什麼 |
| 01:59:00,000 | 01:59:03,500 | 那個類似拘留這樣的一個行為 |
| 01:59:03,500 | 01:59:06,000 | 如果說我們台灣人被他們拘留 |
| 01:59:06,000 | 01:59:07,500 | 他們晚晚 |
| 01:59:07,500 | 01:59:10,500 | 因為他不是有一個法治國家 |
| 01:59:10,500 | 01:59:12,000 | 他要關多久就是多久 |
| 01:59:12,000 | 01:59:12,700 | 沒有 那個法 |
| 01:59:12,700 | 01:59:13,700 | 那個是刑法規定 |
| 01:59:13,700 | 01:59:14,200 | 但是 |
| 01:59:14,200 | 01:59:16,000 | 我說遇到要遣返的情況下 |
| 01:59:16,000 | 01:59:17,000 | 我們也是這樣 |
| 01:59:17,000 | 01:59:18,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 01:59:18,000 | 01:59:21,000 | 我們對於中國大陸人士 |
| 01:59:21,000 | 01:59:22,500 | 那目前最長 |
| 01:59:22,500 | 01:59:24,500 | 我們可以收容150天 |
| 01:59:24,500 | 01:59:25,500 | 150天嘛 |
| 01:59:25,500 | 01:59:27,000 | 那150天之後 |
| 01:59:27,000 | 01:59:30,000 | 我們就可能要考慮替代收容 |
| 01:59:30,000 | 01:59:31,500 | 但是我要跟委員報告 |
| 01:59:31,500 | 01:59:33,000 | 我們這些大陸人士 |
| 01:59:33,000 | 01:59:35,000 | 他們都是可能是偷渡進來 |
| 01:59:35,000 | 01:59:36,500 | 偷渡犯 |
| 01:59:36,500 | 01:59:40,000 | 或者是在台灣犯了刑 |
| 01:59:40,000 | 01:59:41,500 | 已經刑滿 |
| 01:59:41,500 | 01:59:44,000 | 要遣送回大陸 |
| 01:59:44,000 | 01:59:46,000 | 但是我們常常遇到一個問題 |
| 01:59:46,000 | 01:59:47,000 | 像過去 |
| 01:59:47,000 | 01:59:49,000 | 曾經兩年 |
| 01:59:49,000 | 01:59:51,500 | 中國大陸都沒有把這些偷渡犯 |
| 01:59:51,500 | 01:59:54,000 | 或是刑滿的這些刑犯 |
| 01:59:54,000 | 01:59:57,000 | 不安心的這些受刑人 |
| 01:59:57,000 | 01:59:58,500 | 把他遣返回去 |
| 01:59:58,500 | 02:00:00,500 | 那又在我們移民署 |
| 02:00:00,500 | 02:00:02,000 | 待了150天 |
| 02:00:02,000 | 02:00:05,500 | 那我們又不得不用替代收容 |
| 02:00:05,500 | 02:00:08,000 | 就把他放在民間社會 |
| 02:00:08,000 | 02:00:10,500 | 就放在不管是慈善組織 |
| 02:00:10,500 | 02:00:12,500 | 總是跟我們民眾生活在一起 |
| 02:00:12,500 | 02:00:15,500 | 這會形成一個嚴重的治安問題 |
| 02:00:15,500 | 02:00:17,500 | 所以文明社會擔心害怕 |
| 02:00:17,500 | 02:00:18,500 | 我現在要跟你說的就是 |
| 02:00:18,500 | 02:00:20,500 | 對等的一個問題 |
| 02:00:20,500 | 02:00:22,500 | 你今天可以收容他們多久 |
| 02:00:22,500 | 02:00:24,000 | 他們就可以收容我們多久 |
| 02:00:24,000 | 02:00:26,500 | 他就說比照你台灣 |
| 02:00:26,500 | 02:00:28,500 | 就我的了解 |
| 02:00:28,500 | 02:00:30,500 | 大陸收容台灣人民 |
| 02:00:30,500 | 02:00:33,500 | 就是說一些遣返了60天 |
| 02:00:33,500 | 02:00:34,500 | 跟委員報告 |
| 02:00:34,500 | 02:00:35,500 | 超過了就是 |
| 02:00:35,500 | 02:00:38,500 | 我們最後一個保護我們國人 |
| 02:00:38,500 | 02:00:41,500 | 台灣人如果在大陸 |
| 02:00:41,500 | 02:00:42,500 | 如果他要回來 |
| 02:00:42,500 | 02:00:44,000 | 我們都會把他收回來 |
| 02:00:44,000 | 02:00:45,500 | 馬上收回來 |
| 02:00:45,500 | 02:00:47,000 | 我們不會像中國大陸 |
| 02:00:47,000 | 02:00:49,000 | 他的人民想回大陸 |
| 02:00:49,000 | 02:00:50,500 | 兩年不來接 |
| 02:00:50,500 | 02:00:53,500 | 我覺得這是兩岸制度最大的不同 |
| 02:00:53,500 | 02:00:56,500 | 所以大陸就感覺 |
| 02:00:56,500 | 02:00:59,000 | 他不是一個文明法治的國家 |
| 02:00:59,000 | 02:01:01,000 | 我們當然要比他更講求 |
| 02:01:01,000 | 02:01:03,000 | 我們當然要比他更講求 |
| 02:01:03,000 | 02:01:04,000 | 讓他回來 |
| 02:01:04,000 | 02:01:05,000 | 民權嘛 |
| 02:01:05,000 | 02:01:06,000 | 我們更講求民主 |
| 02:01:06,000 | 02:01:07,000 | 更講究人權嘛 |
| 02:01:07,000 | 02:01:09,500 | 所以怎麼會我們的收容的時間 |
| 02:01:09,500 | 02:01:11,000 | 比他們還長 |
| 02:01:11,000 | 02:01:12,000 | 因為 |
| 02:01:13,000 | 02:01:15,000 | 我們比他們更講求人權 |
| 02:01:15,000 | 02:01:17,000 | 結果我們收容的人數 |
| 02:01:17,000 | 02:01:19,000 | 的天數比他還長 |
| 02:01:19,000 | 02:01:20,000 | 這個東西在邏輯上面 |
| 02:01:20,000 | 02:01:22,000 | 就有一點怪怪的 |
| 02:01:22,000 | 02:01:23,000 | 我不知道為什麼 |
| 02:01:23,000 | 02:01:26,000 | 現在已經有現在的制度在了 |
| 02:01:26,000 | 02:01:28,000 | 他只要收人 |
| 02:01:28,000 | 02:01:29,000 | 我們不要收人 |
| 02:01:29,000 | 02:01:30,000 | 馬上收回去我們都會被害 |
| 02:01:30,000 | 02:01:31,000 | 我們比他更嚴格了 |
| 02:01:31,000 | 02:01:33,000 | 我們標榜比他更重視人權 |
| 02:01:33,000 | 02:01:37,000 | 結果我們對於收容的規定 |
| 02:01:37,000 | 02:01:38,000 | 比他還更嚴格 |
| 02:01:38,000 | 02:01:39,000 | 天數更久 |
| 02:01:39,000 | 02:01:40,000 | 是他不來收人 |
| 02:01:40,000 | 02:01:41,000 | 然後我們現在還要改得更長 |
| 02:01:41,000 | 02:01:43,000 | 我們很少看到一個更嚴格 |
| 02:01:43,000 | 02:01:46,000 | 他的國人在台灣要回去 |
| 02:01:46,000 | 02:01:47,000 | 不讓他回去 |
| 02:01:47,000 | 02:01:49,000 | 我們是在很罕見的 |
| 02:01:49,000 | 02:01:50,000 | 今天我們都 |
| 02:01:50,000 | 02:01:51,000 | 其實我今天討論的重點 |
| 02:01:51,000 | 02:01:53,000 | 從來就不是我們怎麼去管 |
| 02:01:53,000 | 02:01:56,000 | 大陸人在台灣購買不動產 |
| 02:01:56,000 | 02:01:58,000 | 大陸人在台灣被收容多久 |
| 02:01:58,000 | 02:02:00,000 | 我今天重點不在這一邊 |
| 02:02:00,000 | 02:02:01,000 | 我今天的重點是 |
| 02:02:01,000 | 02:02:02,000 | 剛剛講的 |
| 02:02:02,000 | 02:02:03,000 | 我們怎麼對別人 |
| 02:02:03,000 | 02:02:04,000 | 別人就怎麼對我們 |
| 02:02:04,000 | 02:02:05,000 | 我們今天怎麼對他 |
| 02:02:05,000 | 02:02:06,000 | 對岸就有可能 |
| 02:02:06,000 | 02:02:07,000 | 未來怎麼對我們的人民 |
| 02:02:07,000 | 02:02:09,000 | 如果說他一旦兩岸政策 |
| 02:02:09,000 | 02:02:10,000 | 要去做緊縮的時候 |
| 02:02:10,000 | 02:02:11,000 | 我覺得我們 |
| 02:02:11,000 | 02:02:12,000 | 我們聽得很好 |
| 02:02:12,000 | 02:02:15,000 | 就是兩岸如何互惠互利 |
| 02:02:15,000 | 02:02:17,000 | 事實上我們真的很願意 |
| 02:02:17,000 | 02:02:18,000 | 跟中國大陸 |
| 02:02:18,000 | 02:02:19,000 | 例如我剛剛講的土地法 |
| 02:02:19,000 | 02:02:20,000 | 就有規定 |
| 02:02:20,000 | 02:02:21,000 | 你怎麼對我 |
| 02:02:21,000 | 02:02:22,000 | 我就怎麼規定 |
| 02:02:22,000 | 02:02:23,000 | 所以我們國家對外國人 |
| 02:02:23,000 | 02:02:25,000 | 在台灣購置不動產的規定 |
| 02:02:25,000 | 02:02:26,000 | 並不是一視同仁 |
| 02:02:26,000 | 02:02:27,000 | 是針對國家 |
| 02:02:27,000 | 02:02:28,000 | 甚至美國是針對不同的州 |
| 02:02:28,000 | 02:02:29,000 | 有不同的規定 |
| 02:02:29,000 | 02:02:30,000 | 因為他們美國州對台灣人的規定 |
| 02:02:30,000 | 02:02:31,000 | 是不一樣的 |
| 02:02:31,000 | 02:02:32,000 | 就平等 |
| 02:02:32,000 | 02:02:35,000 | 我認為兩邊都有舉手一致 |
| 02:02:35,000 | 02:02:36,000 | 要去思考這件事情 |
| 02:02:36,000 | 02:02:37,000 | 好不好 |
| 02:02:37,000 | 02:02:38,000 | 各位 |
| 02:02:38,000 | 02:02:39,000 | 謝謝 |
| 02:02:39,000 | 02:02:40,000 | 站在保護台灣人的立場 |
| 02:02:40,000 | 02:02:41,000 | 來思考一下 |
| 02:02:41,000 | 02:02:43,000 | 這次兩岸人民關係條例的修正 |
| 02:02:43,000 | 02:02:44,000 | 不是眼前看到這件事情 |
| 02:02:44,000 | 02:02:45,000 | 而是後續我們台灣人 |
| 02:02:45,000 | 02:02:47,000 | 在大陸可能會面臨的問題 |
| 02:02:47,000 | 02:02:48,000 | 好不好 |
| 02:02:48,000 | 02:02:49,000 | 謝謝 |
| 02:02:49,000 | 02:02:50,000 | 謝謝教委員 |
| 02:02:55,000 | 02:02:56,000 | 好 謝謝 |
| 02:02:56,000 | 02:02:58,000 | 謝謝我們廖先生 |
| 02:02:58,000 | 02:02:59,000 | 我們下一位 |
| 02:02:59,000 | 02:03:01,000 | 李博義 詹偉 |
| 02:03:04,000 | 02:03:05,000 | 好 謝謝 |
| 02:03:09,000 | 02:03:10,000 | 好 謝謝 |
| 02:03:10,000 | 02:03:11,000 | 有請邱主委 |
| 02:03:11,000 | 02:03:13,000 | 好 邱主委 謝謝 |
| 02:03:16,000 | 02:03:17,000 | 李博義好 |
| 02:03:17,000 | 02:03:18,000 | 邏輯清楚啦 |
| 02:03:18,000 | 02:03:21,000 | 邏輯清楚的意思就是說 |
| 02:03:21,000 | 02:03:23,000 | 這兩岸的制度 |
| 02:03:23,000 | 02:03:27,000 | 你沒有辦法完全拿來做對等的比較啦 |
| 02:03:27,000 | 02:03:29,000 | 邏輯清楚的意思就是說 |
| 02:03:29,000 | 02:03:32,000 | 在台灣你買房地產 |
| 02:03:32,000 | 02:03:34,000 | 跟在中國買房地產 |
| 02:03:34,000 | 02:03:35,000 | 那個概念也完全不一樣 |
| 02:03:35,000 | 02:03:37,000 | 中國有沒有土地所有權 |
| 02:03:37,000 | 02:03:39,000 | 中國的土地是國家的 |
| 02:03:40,000 | 02:03:42,000 | 台灣的土地為什麼稀有 |
| 02:03:44,000 | 02:03:45,000 | 為什麼珍貴 |
| 02:03:45,000 | 02:03:47,000 | 台灣土地可以民有 |
| 02:03:47,000 | 02:03:49,000 | 所以跟這個國家概念是不一樣的 |
| 02:03:49,000 | 02:03:50,000 | 是 |
| 02:03:50,000 | 02:03:51,000 | 第二個 |
| 02:03:51,000 | 02:03:55,000 | 站在國家安全的立場來出發的話 |
| 02:03:56,000 | 02:03:57,000 | 這一些收容 |
| 02:03:57,000 | 02:03:59,000 | 萬一有了空窗期 |
| 02:03:59,000 | 02:04:02,000 | 對台灣社會是造成影響的 |
| 02:04:03,000 | 02:04:05,000 | 所以我們必須要這樣子做 |
| 02:04:05,000 | 02:04:06,000 | 不來 |
| 02:04:06,000 | 02:04:08,000 | 中國不接他們回去 |
| 02:04:08,000 | 02:04:12,000 | 用台灣的法治來影響台灣的生活 |
| 02:04:12,000 | 02:04:13,000 | 影響台灣的治安 |
| 02:04:13,000 | 02:04:16,000 | 這確實是中國要做的影響的事情 |
| 02:04:16,000 | 02:04:18,000 | 所以今天來提出這個修法 |
| 02:04:18,000 | 02:04:21,000 | 那剛剛邱主委也有說過 |
| 02:04:21,000 | 02:04:25,000 | 其實對我們這個修法的方向上是滿一致認同 |
| 02:04:25,000 | 02:04:26,000 | 非常感謝 |
| 02:04:26,000 | 02:04:31,000 | 但我也會尊重行政院這邊的後續的這些討論 |
| 02:04:31,000 | 02:04:33,000 | 行政院這邊可能還有一些意見要進來 |
| 02:04:33,000 | 02:04:36,000 | 所以我還是會等院板這邊的意見一起進來 |
| 02:04:36,000 | 02:04:38,000 | 我們再來做一個逐條的討論 |
| 02:04:38,000 | 02:04:40,000 | 來 主委請你回應 |
| 02:04:41,000 | 02:04:42,000 | 是 |
| 02:04:42,000 | 02:04:43,000 | 謝謝委員 |
| 02:04:43,000 | 02:04:45,000 | 您的修法的這些概念 |
| 02:04:45,000 | 02:04:49,000 | 跟我們的構想是完全一致的 |
| 02:04:49,000 | 02:04:51,000 | 我們首先要感謝您的辛勞 |
| 02:04:51,000 | 02:04:54,000 | 那確實我們這幾年 |
| 02:04:54,000 | 02:04:57,000 | 我們就希望我們抓到的這個 |
| 02:04:57,000 | 02:04:59,000 | 這個不想偷渡犯 |
| 02:04:59,000 | 02:05:02,000 | 或者是在台灣犯了我們的刑法 |
| 02:05:02,000 | 02:05:03,000 | 刑滿 |
| 02:05:03,000 | 02:05:05,000 | 完了這些人犯 |
| 02:05:05,000 | 02:05:08,000 | 能夠順利依照遣返的程序 |
| 02:05:08,000 | 02:05:09,000 | 回到中國大陸 |
| 02:05:09,000 | 02:05:10,000 | 那他們不願意接受 |
| 02:05:10,000 | 02:05:11,000 | 那很遺憾的 |
| 02:05:11,000 | 02:05:13,000 | 那麼他們常常 |
| 02:05:13,000 | 02:05:15,000 | 這個比如說最近 |
| 02:05:15,000 | 02:05:17,000 | 遣返是兩年前才遣返的 |
| 02:05:17,000 | 02:05:21,000 | 最近一次是六月有處理過一次 |
| 02:05:21,000 | 02:05:22,000 | 但是六月 |
| 02:05:22,000 | 02:05:24,000 | 今年六月那一次 |
| 02:05:24,000 | 02:05:26,000 | 另外再前一次是超過兩年 |
| 02:05:26,000 | 02:05:29,000 | 所以中國大陸累積了非常多的這些 |
| 02:05:29,000 | 02:05:31,000 | 中國大陸累積了非常多的這些 |
| 02:05:31,000 | 02:05:32,000 | 幾百天了 |
| 02:05:32,000 | 02:05:33,000 | 有 |
| 02:05:33,000 | 02:05:35,000 | 那時候現行的法律這個 |
| 02:05:35,000 | 02:05:36,000 | 你超過兩年了 |
| 02:05:36,000 | 02:05:38,000 | 現行法律150天 |
| 02:05:38,000 | 02:05:40,000 | 其他這500天 |
| 02:05:40,000 | 02:05:42,000 | 長期在台灣替代收容 |
| 02:05:42,000 | 02:05:43,000 | 對 |
| 02:05:43,000 | 02:05:44,000 | 替代收容是什麼意思 |
| 02:05:44,000 | 02:05:45,000 | 你再白話一點 |
| 02:05:45,000 | 02:05:46,000 | 是 |
| 02:05:46,000 | 02:05:47,000 | 我們那個 |
| 02:05:47,000 | 02:05:49,000 | 移民署的所謂的收容 |
| 02:05:49,000 | 02:05:50,000 | 它有暫語收容 |
| 02:05:50,000 | 02:05:51,000 | 續語收容 |
| 02:05:51,000 | 02:05:53,000 | 延長收容 |
| 02:05:53,000 | 02:05:55,000 | 我們在大陸人士是150天 |
| 02:05:55,000 | 02:05:58,000 | 如果是外國人士100天 |
| 02:05:58,000 | 02:06:00,000 | 那這150天之後呢 |
| 02:06:00,000 | 02:06:03,000 | 依法他們就不能再收容了 |
| 02:06:03,000 | 02:06:05,000 | 就要採取 |
| 02:06:05,000 | 02:06:08,000 | 由社會團體來替代收容 |
| 02:06:08,000 | 02:06:10,000 | 那可能找慈善單位 |
| 02:06:10,000 | 02:06:12,000 | 可能找其他的配合 |
| 02:06:12,000 | 02:06:14,000 | 宗教單位來協助 |
| 02:06:14,000 | 02:06:17,000 | 所以就是自由的在台灣生活了嗎 |
| 02:06:17,000 | 02:06:21,000 | 當然要定期回到移民署去做到道 |
| 02:06:21,000 | 02:06:23,000 | 只是這個管理 |
| 02:06:23,000 | 02:06:26,000 | 往往它大部分時間都在外面 |
| 02:06:26,000 | 02:06:29,000 | 尤其我們的民眾可能不曉得 |
| 02:06:29,000 | 02:06:31,000 | 它周遭有很多的 |
| 02:06:31,000 | 02:06:33,000 | 曾經有犯過刑罰的 |
| 02:06:33,000 | 02:06:35,000 | 不管是偷渡犯或刑事犯 |
| 02:06:35,000 | 02:06:37,000 | 這些大陸人士 |
| 02:06:37,000 | 02:06:38,000 | 在外面替代收容 |
| 02:06:38,000 | 02:06:40,000 | 可能跟他生活在一起 |
| 02:06:40,000 | 02:06:42,000 | 其實這個對於我們的社區 |
| 02:06:42,000 | 02:06:44,000 | 對於我們的社會治安 |
| 02:06:44,000 | 02:06:45,000 | 並不好 |
| 02:06:45,000 | 02:06:48,000 | 那由於是中國大陸造成的 |
| 02:06:48,000 | 02:06:50,000 | 它不把人犯遣返回去 |
| 02:06:50,000 | 02:06:52,000 | 造成我們的困局 |
| 02:06:52,000 | 02:06:55,000 | 所以我們今天很感謝委員這個修法 |
| 02:06:55,000 | 02:06:58,000 | 讓我們可以再延長收容 |
| 02:06:58,000 | 02:06:59,000 | 那就沒有這個問題 |
| 02:06:59,000 | 02:07:02,000 | 我們還是要把它收到移民署 |
| 02:07:02,000 | 02:07:05,000 | 當然會增加移民署的很多的負擔 |
| 02:07:05,000 | 02:07:07,000 | 我想將來這個制度 |
| 02:07:07,000 | 02:07:10,000 | 也應該要增加移民署的能量 |
| 02:07:10,000 | 02:07:13,000 | 包括人力 包括經費的提供 |
| 02:07:13,000 | 02:07:15,000 | 這個移民署過去其實很有經驗 |
| 02:07:15,000 | 02:07:19,000 | 過去很多大陸的偷渡客的年代到現在 |
| 02:07:19,000 | 02:07:21,000 | 其實移民署還是很有經驗 |
| 02:07:21,000 | 02:07:23,000 | 對於收容的這個部分 |
| 02:07:23,000 | 02:07:24,000 | 但是我們要把它法制化 |
| 02:07:24,000 | 02:07:27,000 | 不要讓這個國安有破口 |
| 02:07:27,000 | 02:07:29,000 | 接下來我要跟你談兩岸直航的問題 |
| 02:07:30,000 | 02:07:32,000 | 中國最近對我們喊話 |
| 02:07:32,000 | 02:07:34,000 | 希望台灣政府先開 |
| 02:07:34,000 | 02:07:37,000 | 烏魯木齊 西安 哈爾濱 昆明 蘭州 |
| 02:07:37,000 | 02:07:38,000 | 五個直航航點 |
| 02:07:38,000 | 02:07:42,000 | 請問主委他們現在對自由行開放了嗎 |
| 02:07:43,000 | 02:07:45,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 02:07:45,000 | 02:07:47,000 | 他這些五個航點 |
| 02:07:47,000 | 02:07:51,000 | 都還是目的在吸納我們的觀光客 |
| 02:07:51,000 | 02:07:53,000 | 到中國大陸去觀光 |
| 02:07:53,000 | 02:07:54,000 | 所以我的問題是 |
| 02:07:54,000 | 02:07:57,000 | 這五個城市的自由行開放了嗎 |
| 02:07:58,000 | 02:07:59,000 | 沒有沒有 |
| 02:07:59,000 | 02:08:01,000 | 他們只有 |
| 02:08:01,000 | 02:08:04,000 | 我們沒有限制我們的人飛過去 |
| 02:08:04,000 | 02:08:09,000 | 他們沒有開放烏魯木齊 西安 哈爾濱 昆明 蘭州 |
| 02:08:09,000 | 02:08:12,000 | 這五個城市的人可以自由行 |
| 02:08:12,000 | 02:08:15,000 | 開放這五個航點的意思是什麼意思 |
| 02:08:15,000 | 02:08:17,000 | 根本只有我們的人去 |
| 02:08:17,000 | 02:08:20,000 | 他們的人不能自由行來 |
| 02:08:20,000 | 02:08:23,000 | 他們從2019年8月1號就停止 |
| 02:08:23,000 | 02:08:25,000 | 入客來才自由行 |
| 02:08:25,000 | 02:08:26,000 | 到現在還沒有恢復 |
| 02:08:26,000 | 02:08:27,000 | 對 |
| 02:08:27,000 | 02:08:28,000 | 那所以 |
| 02:08:28,000 | 02:08:30,000 | 也有人說 |
| 02:08:30,000 | 02:08:33,000 | 那我們應該要先包機 |
| 02:08:33,000 | 02:08:35,000 | 或者是如果真的有這個市場 |
| 02:08:35,000 | 02:08:37,000 | 如果國人真的很想去的話 |
| 02:08:37,000 | 02:08:39,000 | 包機我們會不會擋 |
| 02:08:39,000 | 02:08:41,000 | 我們就希望他們提案 |
| 02:08:41,000 | 02:08:43,000 | 比如說西安這個點 |
| 02:08:43,000 | 02:08:47,000 | 是我們13個包機的航點之一 |
| 02:08:47,000 | 02:08:49,000 | 如果他有這個運量 |
| 02:08:49,000 | 02:08:50,000 | 有這個市場 |
| 02:08:50,000 | 02:08:54,000 | 他應該在我們的包機去申請看看 |
| 02:08:54,000 | 02:08:55,000 | 因為我們現在的運能 |
| 02:08:55,000 | 02:08:58,000 | 我們航空公司可以提供的運能沒有限 |
| 02:08:58,000 | 02:08:59,000 | 非常了解 |
| 02:08:59,000 | 02:09:01,000 | 所以如果他真的有運能 |
| 02:09:01,000 | 02:09:02,000 | 你應該提案 |
| 02:09:02,000 | 02:09:05,000 | 現在其實目前為止都沒有提案出來 |
| 02:09:05,000 | 02:09:06,000 | 大家要講平等 |
| 02:09:06,000 | 02:09:07,000 | 那我們就 |
| 02:09:07,000 | 02:09:09,000 | 所以我從平等開始跟你聊 |
| 02:09:09,000 | 02:09:12,000 | 這五個城市也沒有開放他們的 |
| 02:09:12,000 | 02:09:14,000 | 這個國民的自由行 |
| 02:09:14,000 | 02:09:15,000 | 第二個 |
| 02:09:15,000 | 02:09:16,000 | 如果我們要過 |
| 02:09:16,000 | 02:09:19,000 | 如果這直航點或者是這個 |
| 02:09:19,000 | 02:09:21,000 | 或者是這個包機可以成行的話 |
| 02:09:21,000 | 02:09:24,000 | 也都是我們的人過去旅遊 |
| 02:09:24,000 | 02:09:25,000 | 他們的人 |
| 02:09:25,000 | 02:09:26,000 | 或是台上 |
| 02:09:26,000 | 02:09:27,000 | 沒有他們這個人 |
| 02:09:27,000 | 02:09:28,000 | 他們的人不能過來 |
| 02:09:28,000 | 02:09:29,000 | 是 |
| 02:09:29,000 | 02:09:30,000 | 所以為什麼要開放 |
| 02:09:30,000 | 02:09:31,000 | 是 |
| 02:09:31,000 | 02:09:33,000 | 所以當然要包機這個沒有問題 |
| 02:09:33,000 | 02:09:34,000 | 國人要過去玩 |
| 02:09:34,000 | 02:09:37,000 | 包機這個我們完全沒有反對 |
| 02:09:37,000 | 02:09:38,000 | 是不是這樣主委 |
| 02:09:38,000 | 02:09:39,000 | 是 |
| 02:09:39,000 | 02:09:42,000 | 所以其實這個還是比較 |
| 02:09:43,000 | 02:09:45,000 | 比較政治的開放 |
| 02:09:45,000 | 02:09:47,000 | 那如果要政治的開放 |
| 02:09:47,000 | 02:09:50,000 | 如果他也開放自由行的話 |
| 02:09:50,000 | 02:09:51,000 | 那是不是會比較 |
| 02:09:51,000 | 02:09:52,000 | 大家會比較 |
| 02:09:52,000 | 02:09:54,000 | 比較對等的可以談 |
| 02:09:54,000 | 02:09:55,000 | 甚至包含相關旅行業者 |
| 02:09:55,000 | 02:09:56,000 | 如果也出來 |
| 02:09:56,000 | 02:09:57,000 | 是 |
| 02:09:57,000 | 02:09:58,000 | 可以促成的話 |
| 02:09:58,000 | 02:10:00,000 | 那陸委會的態度是怎樣 |
| 02:10:00,000 | 02:10:01,000 | 是 |
| 02:10:01,000 | 02:10:02,000 | 跟我們報告我們在2025年 |
| 02:10:02,000 | 02:10:05,000 | 我們2月3號 |
| 02:10:05,000 | 02:10:06,000 | 我們就給他們 |
| 02:10:06,000 | 02:10:09,000 | 透過我們的台旅會 |
| 02:10:09,000 | 02:10:10,000 | 給他們海旅會一封信 |
| 02:10:10,000 | 02:10:14,000 | 我們希望就兩岸的觀光旅遊 |
| 02:10:14,000 | 02:10:15,000 | 就旅遊安全 |
| 02:10:15,000 | 02:10:17,000 | 旅遊品質 |
| 02:10:17,000 | 02:10:19,000 | 旅遊穩定性跟公平性 |
| 02:10:19,000 | 02:10:20,000 | 坐下來談 |
| 02:10:20,000 | 02:10:22,000 | 我們已經呼籲那麼久 |
| 02:10:22,000 | 02:10:24,000 | 他遲遲就是不願意來談 |
| 02:10:24,000 | 02:10:26,000 | 如果願意來談 |
| 02:10:26,000 | 02:10:27,000 | 如果談出結果 |
| 02:10:27,000 | 02:10:29,000 | 我們再來開放 |
| 02:10:29,000 | 02:10:31,000 | 這個對雙方的旅遊品質 |
| 02:10:31,000 | 02:10:33,000 | 對業者 |
| 02:10:33,000 | 02:10:35,000 | 對我們彼此的對接 |
| 02:10:35,000 | 02:10:37,000 | 有一些旅遊意外 |
| 02:10:37,000 | 02:10:39,000 | 都非常好的事情 |
| 02:10:39,000 | 02:10:40,000 | 但是我們很遺憾 |
| 02:10:40,000 | 02:10:41,000 | 他們就是不願意 |
| 02:10:41,000 | 02:10:43,000 | 透過小兩會來談 |
| 02:10:43,000 | 02:10:44,000 | 沒有回應嗎 |
| 02:10:44,000 | 02:10:45,000 | 是 |
| 02:10:45,000 | 02:10:46,000 | 好謝謝 |
| 02:10:46,000 | 02:10:47,000 | 謝謝委員 |
| 02:10:49,000 | 02:10:51,000 | 好謝謝李德宇再會 |
| 02:10:51,000 | 02:10:52,000 | 謝謝 |
| 02:11:00,000 | 02:11:01,000 | 好謝謝 |
| 02:11:01,000 | 02:11:04,000 | 接下來我們請吳祺民委員詢答 |
| 02:11:07,000 | 02:11:10,000 | 好請我們陸委會我們的邱主委 |
| 02:11:14,000 | 02:11:15,000 | 吳委員好 |
| 02:11:15,000 | 02:11:16,000 | 邱主委好 |
| 02:11:16,000 | 02:11:18,000 | 邱主委針對我們監察院 |
| 02:11:18,000 | 02:11:21,000 | 我們前幾天提出的報告 |
| 02:11:21,000 | 02:11:25,000 | 我們台灣到中國大陸學生的交流 |
| 02:11:25,000 | 02:11:27,000 | 這人數都是暴增 |
| 02:11:27,000 | 02:11:29,000 | 從大學還有高中 |
| 02:11:29,000 | 02:11:33,000 | 國中還有國小都有 |
| 02:11:33,000 | 02:11:37,000 | 這一點大家今天也都在討論這個問題 |
| 02:11:37,000 | 02:11:40,000 | 那再來包含我們的 |
| 02:11:40,000 | 02:11:43,000 | 150天的機流的問題 |
| 02:11:43,000 | 02:11:45,000 | 也是在討論的範圍 |
| 02:11:45,000 | 02:11:47,000 | 那本席在這邊 |
| 02:11:47,000 | 02:11:50,000 | 就是針對我們一個現實的問題 |
| 02:11:50,000 | 02:11:52,000 | 來請問一下我們的主委 |
| 02:11:52,000 | 02:11:55,000 | 因為在本席有個里長 |
| 02:11:55,000 | 02:12:00,000 | 因為他依照我們我國憲行法令 |
| 02:12:00,000 | 02:12:05,000 | 在大陸地區人民參選公職 |
| 02:12:05,000 | 02:12:08,000 | 以符合相關的資格 |
| 02:12:08,000 | 02:12:12,000 | 他發不得保有大陸地區的戶籍的要求 |
| 02:12:12,000 | 02:12:15,000 | 當選後一年必須繳交 |
| 02:12:15,000 | 02:12:17,000 | 放棄國籍 |
| 02:12:17,000 | 02:12:20,000 | 喪失研究相關的文件 |
| 02:12:20,000 | 02:12:23,000 | 但是我們問題來了 |
| 02:12:23,000 | 02:12:27,000 | 他到中國大陸要去申請放棄國籍 |
| 02:12:27,000 | 02:12:31,000 | 那就是沒有辦法去取得 |
| 02:12:31,000 | 02:12:36,000 | 這個問題是以前我們沒有要求 |
| 02:12:36,000 | 02:12:38,000 | 但是以前就存在了 |
| 02:12:38,000 | 02:12:40,000 | 那你現在他們要追溯 |
| 02:12:40,000 | 02:12:45,000 | 那他們也回到他中國大陸那邊去申請 |
| 02:12:45,000 | 02:12:46,000 | 也沒辦法 |
| 02:12:46,000 | 02:12:48,000 | 那這種問題我請問主委 |
| 02:12:48,000 | 02:12:50,000 | 我們要怎樣來協助 |
| 02:12:50,000 | 02:12:52,000 | 謝謝委員 |
| 02:12:52,000 | 02:12:54,000 | 我想委員這個題目 |
| 02:12:54,000 | 02:12:58,000 | 都是我們之前非常熱門的議題 |
| 02:12:58,000 | 02:12:59,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 02:12:59,000 | 02:13:03,000 | 就是他如果要擔任我們的民選公職 |
| 02:13:03,000 | 02:13:04,000 | 在參選前 |
| 02:13:04,000 | 02:13:08,000 | 他必須要去放棄中國大陸的戶籍 |
| 02:13:08,000 | 02:13:12,000 | 而且要拿到我們的身份證 |
| 02:13:12,000 | 02:13:13,000 | 滿十年 |
| 02:13:13,000 | 02:13:15,000 | 他才能夠登記參選 |
| 02:13:15,000 | 02:13:18,000 | 那選上了之後 |
| 02:13:18,000 | 02:13:23,000 | 依規定他還要去中國大陸放棄國籍 |
| 02:13:23,000 | 02:13:25,000 | 依照我們國籍法20條 |
| 02:13:25,000 | 02:13:29,000 | 擔任我們的民選公職 |
| 02:13:29,000 | 02:13:31,000 | 必須對中華民國效忠 |
| 02:13:31,000 | 02:13:36,000 | 要放棄中華民國國籍以外的國籍 |
| 02:13:36,000 | 02:13:39,000 | 只能單一國籍單一效忠 |
| 02:13:39,000 | 02:13:40,000 | 我們都很清楚 |
| 02:13:40,000 | 02:13:42,000 | 但是他問題就存在 |
| 02:13:42,000 | 02:13:45,000 | 他有到中國大陸要去放棄國籍 |
| 02:13:45,000 | 02:13:47,000 | 那一邊他們就是不承認 |
| 02:13:47,000 | 02:13:48,000 | 台灣是一個國家 |
| 02:13:48,000 | 02:13:50,000 | 那怎麼辦 |
| 02:13:50,000 | 02:13:55,000 | 我想這個是中國大陸造成的困境 |
| 02:13:55,000 | 02:13:59,000 | 並不是我們政府造成的 |
| 02:13:59,000 | 02:14:01,000 | 是對岸造成的困境 |
| 02:14:01,000 | 02:14:06,000 | 那這個部分目前還是沒辦法解決 |
| 02:14:06,000 | 02:14:08,000 | 譬如說我們現在很多國家 |
| 02:14:08,000 | 02:14:09,000 | 全世界很多國家 |
| 02:14:09,000 | 02:14:11,000 | 也是不能放棄國籍的 |
| 02:14:11,000 | 02:14:15,000 | 像阿根廷 像沙烏地阿拉伯 巴拉圭 |
| 02:14:15,000 | 02:14:20,000 | 現在對當事者也是一個不公平 |
| 02:14:20,000 | 02:14:24,000 | 是以前造成已經逝世了 |
| 02:14:24,000 | 02:14:27,000 | 那現在我們要怎樣來協助來補救 |
| 02:14:27,000 | 02:14:33,000 | 我想他可以先爭取他登記參選 |
| 02:14:33,000 | 02:14:36,000 | 成為民選公職人員的候選人 |
| 02:14:36,000 | 02:14:39,000 | 只要符合放棄戶籍 |
| 02:14:39,000 | 02:14:45,000 | 滿十年放棄戶籍就取得我們台灣的身份證 |
| 02:14:45,000 | 02:14:47,000 | 滿十年他就有參選資格 |
| 02:14:47,000 | 02:14:48,000 | 他可以登記參選 |
| 02:14:48,000 | 02:14:53,000 | 那我們那個國籍法還有一年的緩衝期 |
| 02:14:53,000 | 02:14:56,000 | 就是說他很努力去放棄中國國籍 |
| 02:14:56,000 | 02:14:59,000 | 他放棄不了他還有一年的任期 |
| 02:14:59,000 | 02:15:05,000 | 那當然我們也強調那個不是他的責任 |
| 02:15:05,000 | 02:15:08,000 | 那也不是我們造成的困境 |
| 02:15:08,000 | 02:15:12,000 | 那是中國政府帶來的這些困境 |
| 02:15:12,000 | 02:15:15,000 | 那這在很多國家也有類似的狀況 |
| 02:15:15,000 | 02:15:17,000 | 也不是只有中國而已 |
| 02:15:17,000 | 02:15:20,000 | 那這個部分當然委員會有個案 |
| 02:15:20,000 | 02:15:22,000 | 我們來協助跟他說明 |
| 02:15:23,000 | 02:15:25,000 | 你這是一個里長候選人嗎 |
| 02:15:25,000 | 02:15:26,000 | 對 |
| 02:15:26,000 | 02:15:30,000 | 可以把案子交給我們來跟這位里長候選人跟他說明 |
| 02:15:30,000 | 02:15:32,000 | 因為布蘭對當事者非常不公平 |
| 02:15:32,000 | 02:15:33,000 | 是不公平 |
| 02:15:33,000 | 02:15:34,000 | 對 |
| 02:15:34,000 | 02:15:38,000 | 他也嘗試到中國大陸去放棄也是沒辦法 |
| 02:15:38,000 | 02:15:39,000 | 是我們了解 |
| 02:15:39,000 | 02:15:42,000 | 這個困境就選在那邊 |
| 02:15:42,000 | 02:15:45,000 | 那我們是要怎樣來協助他 |
| 02:15:45,000 | 02:15:48,000 | 這是應該我們未來 |
| 02:15:48,000 | 02:15:51,000 | 我們要找各單位大家來研究好不好 |
| 02:15:51,000 | 02:15:52,000 | 是好 |
| 02:15:52,000 | 02:15:53,000 | 好 |
| 02:15:53,000 | 02:15:54,000 | 謝謝 |
| 02:15:54,000 | 02:15:55,000 | 謝謝 |
| 02:15:55,000 | 02:15:56,000 | 謝謝吳委員 |
| 02:15:56,000 | 02:15:57,000 | 謝謝 |
| 02:16:00,000 | 02:16:01,000 | 謝謝 |
| 02:16:01,000 | 02:16:02,000 | 謝謝吳啟明委員 |
| 02:16:02,000 | 02:16:05,000 | 接下來我們請徐欣穎委員質詢 |
| 02:16:12,000 | 02:16:13,000 | 好 |
| 02:16:13,000 | 02:16:16,000 | 謝謝主席本席有請邱主委 |
| 02:16:21,000 | 02:16:22,000 | 徐維耀好 |
| 02:16:22,000 | 02:16:23,000 | 好 |
| 02:16:23,000 | 02:16:24,000 | 邱主委 |
| 02:16:24,000 | 02:16:30,000 | 我們今天審查路資透過建民登記取得台灣土地的問題 |
| 02:16:30,000 | 02:16:32,000 | 本席很快的請教您 |
| 02:16:32,000 | 02:16:35,000 | 陸委會同意修法 |
| 02:16:35,000 | 02:16:38,000 | 但是我們國會也想要知道 |
| 02:16:38,000 | 02:16:41,000 | 近十年 |
| 02:16:41,000 | 02:16:43,000 | 究竟有多少這種案件 |
| 02:16:43,000 | 02:16:47,000 | 這些案件涉及了多少土地面積 |
| 02:16:47,000 | 02:16:50,000 | 交易金額是多少 |
| 02:16:50,000 | 02:16:53,000 | 其中又有多少是位於軍事設施 |
| 02:16:53,000 | 02:16:58,000 | 港口機場能源通訊水庫科技園區 |
| 02:16:58,000 | 02:17:02,000 | 或其他關鍵基礎設施的周邊 |
| 02:17:02,000 | 02:17:06,000 | 您可以簡單的回覆這幾個問題嗎 |
| 02:17:06,000 | 02:17:07,000 | 謝謝委員質教 |
| 02:17:07,000 | 02:17:13,000 | 有關於中國大陸人民來台灣取得不動產的建樹 |
| 02:17:13,000 | 02:17:14,000 | 我們是許可志 |
| 02:17:14,000 | 02:17:15,000 | 近十年 |
| 02:17:15,000 | 02:17:16,000 | 近十年 |
| 02:17:16,000 | 02:17:17,000 | 對 |
| 02:17:17,000 | 02:17:18,000 | 我們總共的建樹 |
| 02:17:18,000 | 02:17:21,000 | 是748件 |
| 02:17:21,000 | 02:17:24,000 | 那有多少涉及土地面積 |
| 02:17:24,000 | 02:17:27,000 | 土地面積 |
| 02:17:27,000 | 02:17:31,000 | 我們如果按照權利價值的話 |
| 02:17:31,000 | 02:17:36,000 | 這個是百萬 |
| 02:17:36,000 | 02:17:42,000 | 有187億的價值 |
| 02:17:42,000 | 02:17:44,000 | 這是我們內政部估算的 |
| 02:17:44,000 | 02:17:45,000 | 內政部估算的 |
| 02:17:45,000 | 02:17:46,000 | 我是問你 |
| 02:17:46,000 | 02:17:50,000 | 有多少 |
| 02:17:50,000 | 02:17:53,000 | 這些案件涉及多少土地面積 |
| 02:17:53,000 | 02:17:55,000 | 你剛剛講的是交易金額嗎 |
| 02:17:55,000 | 02:17:56,000 | 100多億 |
| 02:17:56,000 | 02:17:57,000 | 權利價值 |
| 02:17:57,000 | 02:17:58,000 | 權利價值 |
| 02:17:58,000 | 02:17:59,000 | 估值 |
| 02:17:59,000 | 02:18:02,000 | 那你如果要取得的土地 |
| 02:18:02,000 | 02:18:04,000 | 面積知道嗎 |
| 02:18:04,000 | 02:18:07,000 | 我們有一個總量管制 |
| 02:18:07,000 | 02:18:09,000 | 就是土地不要 |
| 02:18:09,000 | 02:18:10,000 | 這是總量管制 |
| 02:18:10,000 | 02:18:13,000 | 但是沒有超過這個管制 |
| 02:18:13,000 | 02:18:18,000 | 那我們希望我們的每年的管制 |
| 02:18:18,000 | 02:18:19,000 | 是13公頃 |
| 02:18:19,000 | 02:18:20,000 | 每年的 |
| 02:18:20,000 | 02:18:22,000 | 然後建物是400戶 |
| 02:18:22,000 | 02:18:24,000 | 那如果是 |
| 02:18:24,000 | 02:18:26,000 | 建物叫做400戶 |
| 02:18:26,000 | 02:18:27,000 | 對 建物 |
| 02:18:27,000 | 02:18:30,000 | 房子400戶 |
| 02:18:30,000 | 02:18:33,000 | 這是我們年度的管制的量 |
| 02:18:33,000 | 02:18:37,000 | 那有多少位於相關的關鍵基礎設施 |
| 02:18:37,000 | 02:18:39,000 | 什麼港口機場 通訊水庫 |
| 02:18:39,000 | 02:18:40,000 | 各位報告 |
| 02:18:40,000 | 02:18:41,000 | 各位報告 |
| 02:18:41,000 | 02:18:43,000 | 我們的兩項條例 |
| 02:18:43,000 | 02:18:46,000 | 就路人來購買這些不動產 |
| 02:18:46,000 | 02:18:49,000 | 都要由主管機關許可 |
| 02:18:49,000 | 02:18:50,000 | 我們是許可制 |
| 02:18:50,000 | 02:18:52,000 | 我剛剛說到那些 |
| 02:18:52,000 | 02:18:55,000 | 可能國家關鍵基礎設施 |
| 02:18:55,000 | 02:18:57,000 | 或是要塞保理地帶 |
| 02:18:57,000 | 02:19:00,000 | 我只是要先問 |
| 02:19:00,000 | 02:19:02,000 | 都不許可 |
| 02:19:02,000 | 02:19:04,000 | 路委會有沒有掌握 |
| 02:19:04,000 | 02:19:07,000 | 都沒有 |
| 02:19:07,000 | 02:19:09,000 | 那接著本席請教 |
| 02:19:09,000 | 02:19:10,000 | 那我們這個 |
| 02:19:10,000 | 02:19:11,000 | 在修法的時候 |
| 02:19:11,000 | 02:19:12,000 | 這個內容 |
| 02:19:12,000 | 02:19:17,000 | 它只寫到就是禁止屆民登記 |
| 02:19:17,000 | 02:19:19,000 | 那這個屆民登記 |
| 02:19:19,000 | 02:19:21,000 | 其實它只是一種最傳統 |
| 02:19:21,000 | 02:19:23,000 | 最表面的規避方式 |
| 02:19:23,000 | 02:19:25,000 | 就是如果對岸 |
| 02:19:25,000 | 02:19:29,000 | 大陸有人要來買我們這邊的 |
| 02:19:29,000 | 02:19:31,000 | 不動產土地的話 |
| 02:19:31,000 | 02:19:33,000 | 那所以他也有可能改用 |
| 02:19:33,000 | 02:19:34,000 | 第三地的公司 |
| 02:19:34,000 | 02:19:37,000 | 或者是他用美國人民裔 |
| 02:19:37,000 | 02:19:38,000 | 他用國際公司 |
| 02:19:38,000 | 02:19:40,000 | 化國企業等等 |
| 02:19:40,000 | 02:19:43,000 | 所以我們修法 |
| 02:19:43,000 | 02:19:45,000 | 我們也沒看到路委會 |
| 02:19:45,000 | 02:19:46,000 | 路委會就是同意 |
| 02:19:46,000 | 02:19:48,000 | 但路委會好像也沒有版本 |
| 02:19:48,000 | 02:19:51,000 | 可是你們是主要的主管機關 |
| 02:19:51,000 | 02:19:54,000 | 所以我們希望修法核心 |
| 02:19:54,000 | 02:19:57,000 | 是不是就不能只寫屆民登記 |
| 02:19:57,000 | 02:19:59,000 | 是不是應該你要修 |
| 02:19:59,000 | 02:20:01,000 | 你就要完整的考量 |
| 02:20:01,000 | 02:20:02,000 | 要整套 |
| 02:20:02,000 | 02:20:04,000 | 這一塊您的看法怎麼樣 |
| 02:20:04,000 | 02:20:05,000 | 我非常同意 |
| 02:20:05,000 | 02:20:09,000 | 如果有更完整的一個立法 |
| 02:20:09,000 | 02:20:11,000 | 讓大家可以來分手 |
| 02:20:11,000 | 02:20:12,000 | 那你們自己有沒有版本 |
| 02:20:12,000 | 02:20:14,000 | 因為立委有考量到這一點 |
| 02:20:14,000 | 02:20:15,000 | 那當然立委 |
| 02:20:15,000 | 02:20:17,000 | 他團隊各方面 |
| 02:20:17,000 | 02:20:21,000 | 也寫了這個法條 |
| 02:20:21,000 | 02:20:22,000 | 各位報告 |
| 02:20:22,000 | 02:20:24,000 | 你們有自己的自己的版本嗎 |
| 02:20:24,000 | 02:20:25,000 | 是 |
| 02:20:25,000 | 02:20:26,000 | 各位報告 |
| 02:20:26,000 | 02:20:27,000 | 還有你們是主管機關 |
| 02:20:27,000 | 02:20:28,000 | 你們應該看得更全面 |
| 02:20:28,000 | 02:20:30,000 | 更整全套 |
| 02:20:30,000 | 02:20:32,000 | 我們有跟武立華委員 |
| 02:20:32,000 | 02:20:34,000 | 有很多的討論 |
| 02:20:34,000 | 02:20:36,000 | 特別是武立華委員 |
| 02:20:36,000 | 02:20:39,000 | 非常關切的是原住民保留地 |
| 02:20:39,000 | 02:20:41,000 | 非常大量的建民登記 |
| 02:20:41,000 | 02:20:42,000 | 那他也認為 |
| 02:20:42,000 | 02:20:44,000 | 有許多的路資 |
| 02:20:44,000 | 02:20:46,000 | 採取屆民登記 |
| 02:20:46,000 | 02:20:49,000 | 來收購這個原住民保留地 |
| 02:20:49,000 | 02:20:51,000 | 我們是很支持 |
| 02:20:51,000 | 02:20:53,000 | 這個屆民登記 |
| 02:20:53,000 | 02:20:55,000 | 在這個土地登記跟移轉 |
| 02:20:55,000 | 02:20:56,000 | 是無效的 |
| 02:20:56,000 | 02:20:57,000 | 當然要有證據 |
| 02:20:57,000 | 02:20:59,000 | 好啦 我直接問你 |
| 02:20:59,000 | 02:21:00,000 | 路委會是否支持 |
| 02:21:00,000 | 02:21:03,000 | 在法律或明確授權命令中 |
| 02:21:03,000 | 02:21:05,000 | 建立實質受益人資金來源 |
| 02:21:05,000 | 02:21:08,000 | 以及實際控制的認定標準 |
| 02:21:08,000 | 02:21:09,000 | 我剛剛講了 |
| 02:21:09,000 | 02:21:12,000 | 你只是屆民登記 |
| 02:21:12,000 | 02:21:14,000 | 你只是禁止屆民登記 |
| 02:21:14,000 | 02:21:16,000 | 但實際上他可以迂迴 |
| 02:21:16,000 | 02:21:18,000 | 他再用第三例第三人 |
| 02:21:18,000 | 02:21:19,000 | 各種方式 |
| 02:21:19,000 | 02:21:21,000 | 所以這一塊 |
| 02:21:21,000 | 02:21:25,000 | 我想你們來努力好不好 |
| 02:21:25,000 | 02:21:26,000 | 我這個質詢的時間 |
| 02:21:26,000 | 02:21:27,000 | 你這樣 |
| 02:21:27,000 | 02:21:28,000 | 我知道 |
| 02:21:28,000 | 02:21:29,000 | 委員是要避免漏洞 |
| 02:21:29,000 | 02:21:30,000 | 對 當然 |
| 02:21:30,000 | 02:21:31,000 | 我們要詳實的規範 |
| 02:21:31,000 | 02:21:32,000 | 很多規避漏洞 |
| 02:21:32,000 | 02:21:34,000 | 這個是你們的職責 |
| 02:21:34,000 | 02:21:36,000 | 你們主管單位 |
| 02:21:36,000 | 02:21:37,000 | 行政單位的職責 |
| 02:21:37,000 | 02:21:39,000 | 所以我希望你們加油一點 |
| 02:21:39,000 | 02:21:40,000 | 那再來 |
| 02:21:40,000 | 02:21:41,000 | 本席要問 |
| 02:21:41,000 | 02:21:44,000 | 好 如果這個 |
| 02:21:44,000 | 02:21:46,000 | 這邊我們內政部 |
| 02:21:46,000 | 02:21:49,000 | 只有來移民署 |
| 02:21:49,000 | 02:21:50,000 | 也就是說 |
| 02:21:50,000 | 02:21:51,000 | 如果我們發現了 |
| 02:21:51,000 | 02:21:53,000 | 那你要 |
| 02:21:53,000 | 02:21:54,000 | 這個譬如說地政機關 |
| 02:21:54,000 | 02:21:56,000 | 看到登記簿上的權利人 |
| 02:21:56,000 | 02:21:58,000 | 但地政機關 |
| 02:21:58,000 | 02:22:01,000 | 他看得到跨境外的匯款 |
| 02:22:01,000 | 02:22:03,000 | 就是說如果要查的話 |
| 02:22:03,000 | 02:22:04,000 | 這個單位誰來查 |
| 02:22:04,000 | 02:22:06,000 | 主責單位是你們嗎 |
| 02:22:06,000 | 02:22:07,000 | 不可能嗎 |
| 02:22:07,000 | 02:22:08,000 | 我想說主管機關 |
| 02:22:08,000 | 02:22:09,000 | 但今天 |
| 02:22:09,000 | 02:22:12,000 | 內政部好像只有移民署 |
| 02:22:12,000 | 02:22:13,000 | 我們有地政司的同仁 |
| 02:22:13,000 | 02:22:14,000 | 地政司專門委員 |
| 02:22:14,000 | 02:22:15,000 | 對 |
| 02:22:15,000 | 02:22:17,000 | 報告委員 |
| 02:22:17,000 | 02:22:19,000 | 如果是移轉登記的話 |
| 02:22:19,000 | 02:22:21,000 | 我們只會看依照契約上面 |
| 02:22:21,000 | 02:22:22,000 | 我們沒有辦法去查他的資金來 |
| 02:22:22,000 | 02:22:25,000 | 對 所以現在 |
| 02:22:25,000 | 02:22:26,000 | 主委 |
| 02:22:26,000 | 02:22:27,000 | 究竟哪一個機關 |
| 02:22:27,000 | 02:22:29,000 | 來統合這件事 |
| 02:22:29,000 | 02:22:31,000 | 如果有檢舉案的話 |
| 02:22:31,000 | 02:22:32,000 | 當然 |
| 02:22:32,000 | 02:22:33,000 | 誰負責查 |
| 02:22:33,000 | 02:22:34,000 | 誰是主責機關 |
| 02:22:34,000 | 02:22:36,000 | 單一主責機關是誰 |
| 02:22:36,000 | 02:22:37,000 | 應該是誰 |
| 02:22:37,000 | 02:22:38,000 | 內政部 |
| 02:22:38,000 | 02:22:39,000 | 應該是內政部 |
| 02:22:39,000 | 02:22:41,000 | 那內政部怎麼辦 |
| 02:22:41,000 | 02:22:44,000 | 你有辦法查到境外匯款嗎 |
| 02:22:44,000 | 02:22:46,000 | 你看得到第三地公司的 |
| 02:22:46,000 | 02:22:48,000 | 最終受益人嗎 |
| 02:22:48,000 | 02:22:50,000 | 還有你看得到股東之間的 |
| 02:22:50,000 | 02:22:52,000 | 整個控制協議嗎 |
| 02:22:52,000 | 02:22:55,000 | 還有看得到金融機構的 |
| 02:22:55,000 | 02:22:57,000 | 客戶審查資料嗎 |
| 02:22:57,000 | 02:22:58,000 | 看不到 那怎麼辦 |
| 02:22:58,000 | 02:22:59,000 | 怎麼辦 |
| 02:22:59,000 | 02:23:01,000 | 所以主責機關是內政部 |
| 02:23:01,000 | 02:23:04,000 | 那你們在函請其他單位是這樣嗎 |
| 02:23:04,000 | 02:23:07,000 | 我們目前都這個部分是 |
| 02:23:07,000 | 02:23:09,000 | 因為今天的條文是沒有規定 |
| 02:23:09,000 | 02:23:10,000 | 對 |
| 02:23:10,000 | 02:23:11,000 | 好 很好 |
| 02:23:11,000 | 02:23:12,000 | 你的回答 |
| 02:23:12,000 | 02:23:14,000 | 因為我的時間的關係 |
| 02:23:14,000 | 02:23:15,000 | 主委 |
| 02:23:15,000 | 02:23:17,000 | 我們在修這個法的時候 |
| 02:23:17,000 | 02:23:19,000 | 要更完善一點好不好 |
| 02:23:19,000 | 02:23:21,000 | 我們今天大概點出幾個問題 |
| 02:23:21,000 | 02:23:22,000 | 是 謝謝委員 |
| 02:23:22,000 | 02:23:23,000 | 你是主責單位 |
| 02:23:23,000 | 02:23:26,000 | 你們如果這個法案要討論 |
| 02:23:26,000 | 02:23:28,000 | 真的要來修 |
| 02:23:28,000 | 02:23:31,000 | 那你們應該要更全面的考量 |
| 02:23:31,000 | 02:23:33,000 | 而且給出好的建議 |
| 02:23:33,000 | 02:23:34,000 | 甚至好的版本 |
| 02:23:34,000 | 02:23:35,000 | 是 |
| 02:23:35,000 | 02:23:36,000 | 好嗎 |
| 02:23:36,000 | 02:23:37,000 | 是 謝謝委員 |
| 02:23:37,000 | 02:23:38,000 | 好 OK |
| 02:23:38,000 | 02:23:40,000 | 那內政部 地政司的請回座 |
| 02:23:40,000 | 02:23:42,000 | 那這個主委本席 |
| 02:23:42,000 | 02:23:44,000 | 很快再詢問一下 |
| 02:23:44,000 | 02:23:45,000 | 是 |
| 02:23:45,000 | 02:23:47,000 | 因為我們現在食安的問題 |
| 02:23:47,000 | 02:23:51,000 | 我們兩岸有食安合作機制吧 |
| 02:23:51,000 | 02:23:53,000 | 有 是 委員有 |
| 02:23:53,000 | 02:23:58,000 | 對 那尤其我們最近看到這個苦茶油 |
| 02:23:58,000 | 02:24:02,000 | 苦茶油也爆出來這個問題 |
| 02:24:02,000 | 02:24:05,000 | 那請問食安的苦茶油 |
| 02:24:05,000 | 02:24:07,000 | 那個苦茶籽好像說 |
| 02:24:07,000 | 02:24:10,000 | 是可能來自中國大陸 |
| 02:24:10,000 | 02:24:13,000 | 那請問我們陸委會 |
| 02:24:13,000 | 02:24:16,000 | 我們中華民國政府 |
| 02:24:16,000 | 02:24:19,000 | 有沒有依照兩項協議 |
| 02:24:19,000 | 02:24:22,000 | 正式請求陸方共同調查 |
| 02:24:22,000 | 02:24:23,000 | 你們做了沒 |
| 02:24:25,000 | 02:24:26,000 | 還沒 |
| 02:24:26,000 | 02:24:28,000 | 包委員 因為主管機關 |
| 02:24:28,000 | 02:24:31,000 | 當然我們兩岸有食品安全協議 |
| 02:24:31,000 | 02:24:32,000 | 對 |
| 02:24:32,000 | 02:24:33,000 | 還有你剛剛提出來的 |
| 02:24:33,000 | 02:24:35,000 | 因為這個苦茶油那個原料 |
| 02:24:35,000 | 02:24:38,000 | 應該是農產品的檢驗合作機 |
| 02:24:38,000 | 02:24:40,000 | 對 就來自中國大陸 |
| 02:24:40,000 | 02:24:41,000 | 農業部 |
| 02:24:41,000 | 02:24:44,000 | 你們要不要進行 |
| 02:24:44,000 | 02:24:45,000 | 我知道 我聽你回答 |
| 02:24:45,000 | 02:24:47,000 | 我就知道根本還沒進行 |
| 02:24:47,000 | 02:24:48,000 | 但我們民眾都已經知道 |
| 02:24:48,000 | 02:24:51,000 | 那個苦茶籽可能來自中國大陸 |
| 02:24:51,000 | 02:24:53,000 | 但是我們這邊毫無動作 |
| 02:24:55,000 | 02:24:58,000 | 你們是否會正式請陸方共同調查 |
| 02:25:00,000 | 02:25:02,000 | 雖然我們必須在這邊 |
| 02:25:02,000 | 02:25:03,000 | 這個是在調查過程 |
| 02:25:03,000 | 02:25:05,000 | 我們並不是認定 |
| 02:25:05,000 | 02:25:06,000 | 一定是他們 |
| 02:25:06,000 | 02:25:08,000 | 中國大陸的原料造成的 |
| 02:25:08,000 | 02:25:11,000 | 但是現在有這個疑慮的時候 |
| 02:25:11,000 | 02:25:13,000 | 我們就要通盤啟動 |
| 02:25:15,000 | 02:25:17,000 | 對不對 依協議啟動調查 |
| 02:25:18,000 | 02:25:20,000 | 本身不是責任認定 |
| 02:25:20,000 | 02:25:22,000 | 我們是在做風險管理 |
| 02:25:22,000 | 02:25:24,000 | 所以主委可以做嗎 |
| 02:25:24,000 | 02:25:25,000 | 可以 |
| 02:25:25,000 | 02:25:26,000 | 陸委可以嗎 |
| 02:25:26,000 | 02:25:28,000 | 當然我們會來問主管機關農業部 |
| 02:25:28,000 | 02:25:30,000 | 因為其實目前為止 |
| 02:25:30,000 | 02:25:33,000 | 他沒有跟我們有任何的請求 |
| 02:25:33,000 | 02:25:35,000 | 或是說請我們來合作 |
| 02:25:35,000 | 02:25:36,000 | 你說誰沒有跟你們請求 |
| 02:25:36,000 | 02:25:37,000 | 農業部 |
| 02:25:37,000 | 02:25:38,000 | 針對你剛剛提到的 |
| 02:25:38,000 | 02:25:40,000 | 可能有出過相關的原料 |
| 02:25:40,000 | 02:25:41,000 | 所以你在這邊就證明了 |
| 02:25:41,000 | 02:25:43,000 | 這個食安問題 |
| 02:25:43,000 | 02:25:46,000 | 尤其這個毒油風暴 |
| 02:25:46,000 | 02:25:48,000 | 延燒了一個月了 |
| 02:25:48,000 | 02:25:51,000 | 結果政府的態度還是拖拖拉拉 |
| 02:25:51,000 | 02:25:52,000 | 你在這邊證明 |
| 02:25:52,000 | 02:25:54,000 | 農業部也沒找你們 |
| 02:25:54,000 | 02:25:57,000 | 你們看到好像疑似 |
| 02:25:57,000 | 02:25:58,000 | 新聞大概都有報導 |
| 02:25:58,000 | 02:25:59,000 | 連我們都看到了 |
| 02:25:59,000 | 02:26:01,000 | 可能是中國大陸來的 |
| 02:26:01,000 | 02:26:04,000 | 你們也是沒有主動積極的查 |
| 02:26:04,000 | 02:26:05,000 | 我想因為時間關係 |
| 02:26:05,000 | 02:26:08,000 | 我也不想浪費大家時間 |
| 02:26:08,000 | 02:26:09,000 | 耽誤大家時間 |
| 02:26:09,000 | 02:26:11,000 | 所以主委 |
| 02:26:11,000 | 02:26:14,000 | 我們建立跨境食安的治理 |
| 02:26:14,000 | 02:26:15,000 | 絕對不是等事件發生 |
| 02:26:15,000 | 02:26:18,000 | 因為今天可能有苦茶油 |
| 02:26:18,000 | 02:26:20,000 | 明天可能是茶葉 |
| 02:26:20,000 | 02:26:22,000 | 芝麻花生中藥材等等 |
| 02:26:22,000 | 02:26:25,000 | 所以我們比較想知道的是 |
| 02:26:25,000 | 02:26:27,000 | 我們的政府到底有沒有能力 |
| 02:26:27,000 | 02:26:29,000 | 在第一時間追到源頭 |
| 02:26:29,000 | 02:26:30,000 | 查明真相 |
| 02:26:30,000 | 02:26:34,000 | 這些農產品原物料 |
| 02:26:34,000 | 02:26:37,000 | 有造成食安問題 |
| 02:26:37,000 | 02:26:40,000 | 我們就是希望陸委會 |
| 02:26:40,000 | 02:26:41,000 | 能夠積極善用 |
| 02:26:41,000 | 02:26:44,000 | 海峽兩岸食品安全協議 |
| 02:26:44,000 | 02:26:50,000 | 還有海峽兩岸農產品檢驗合作協議 |
| 02:26:50,000 | 02:26:53,000 | 把兩岸既有的機制制度 |
| 02:26:53,000 | 02:26:55,000 | 運用在保障人民健康 |
| 02:26:55,000 | 02:26:57,000 | 不是等到事件 |
| 02:26:57,000 | 02:26:59,000 | 這次是事件發生了 |
| 02:26:59,000 | 02:27:00,000 | 你們都還沒動 |
| 02:27:00,000 | 02:27:02,000 | 那我們要求的是 |
| 02:27:02,000 | 02:27:04,000 | 你們應該更積極 |
| 02:27:04,000 | 02:27:05,000 | 不是等到事件結束 |
| 02:27:05,000 | 02:27:07,000 | 你才回頭檢討 |
| 02:27:07,000 | 02:27:09,000 | 所以最後本席要說是 |
| 02:27:09,000 | 02:27:11,000 | 我們的食品安全沒有藍綠 |
| 02:27:11,000 | 02:27:12,000 | 對不對 |
| 02:27:12,000 | 02:27:13,000 | 大家每天都在吃 |
| 02:27:13,000 | 02:27:15,000 | 你吃到毒油 |
| 02:27:15,000 | 02:27:17,000 | 我也吃到毒油 |
| 02:27:17,000 | 02:27:19,000 | 我們也絕對不要兩岸對立 |
| 02:27:19,000 | 02:27:20,000 | 我們食品安全 |
| 02:27:20,000 | 02:27:22,000 | 只有共同一個目標 |
| 02:27:22,000 | 02:27:24,000 | 就是要讓人民吃得安心 |
| 02:27:24,000 | 02:27:25,000 | 吃得安全 |
| 02:27:25,000 | 02:27:27,000 | 請陸委會加油一點好嗎 |
| 02:27:27,000 | 02:27:28,000 | 好 謝謝許委員 |
| 02:27:28,000 | 02:27:29,000 | 我們謝謝 |
| 02:27:29,000 | 02:27:30,000 | 拜託拜託 |
| 02:27:30,000 | 02:27:33,000 | 謝謝許新穎委員 |
| 02:27:35,000 | 02:27:36,000 | 接下來我們請下一位 |
| 02:27:36,000 | 02:27:38,000 | 蘇青全委員 |
| 02:27:40,000 | 02:27:42,000 | 蘇青全委員 |
| 02:27:42,000 | 02:27:44,000 | 蘇青全委員不在 |
| 02:27:44,000 | 02:27:46,000 | 我們請鍾嘉斌委員 |
| 02:27:46,000 | 02:27:48,000 | 鍾嘉斌委員 |
| 02:27:48,000 | 02:27:50,000 | 鍾嘉斌委員不在 |
| 02:27:50,000 | 02:27:52,000 | 我們請鄭政全委員 |
| 02:27:52,000 | 02:27:54,000 | 鄭政全委員 |
| 02:27:54,000 | 02:27:56,000 | 鄭政全委員不在 |
| 02:27:56,000 | 02:27:58,000 | 登記質詢委員除不在場外 |
| 02:27:58,000 | 02:28:00,000 | 其餘均已質詢完畢 |
| 02:28:00,000 | 02:28:02,000 | 詢答結束 |
| 02:28:02,000 | 02:28:03,000 | 委員林楚英、傅坤 |
| 02:28:03,000 | 02:28:05,000 | 其餘徐新穎所提書面質詢 |
| 02:28:05,000 | 02:28:07,000 | 列入紀錄刊登公報 |
| 02:28:07,000 | 02:28:10,000 | 書面質詢和未集答覆部分 |
| 02:28:10,000 | 02:28:11,000 | 我們請相關單位 |
| 02:28:11,000 | 02:28:14,000 | 於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會 |
| 02:28:14,000 | 02:28:19,000 | 討論事項所列議案均令其繼續審查 |
| 02:28:19,000 | 02:28:21,000 | 本次會議到此結束 |
| 02:28:25,000 | 02:28:26,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:28:40,000 | 02:28:41,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:11,000 | 02:29:12,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:12,000 | 02:29:13,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:13,000 | 02:29:14,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:14,000 | 02:29:15,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:15,000 | 02:29:16,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:16,000 | 02:29:17,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:17,000 | 02:29:18,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:18,000 | 02:29:19,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:19,000 | 02:29:20,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:20,000 | 02:29:21,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:21,000 | 02:29:22,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:22,000 | 02:29:23,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:23,000 | 02:29:24,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:24,000 | 02:29:25,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:25,000 | 02:29:26,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:26,000 | 02:29:27,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:27,000 | 02:29:28,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:28,000 | 02:29:29,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:29,000 | 02:29:30,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:30,000 | 02:29:31,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:31,000 | 02:29:32,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:32,000 | 02:29:33,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:33,000 | 02:29:34,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:34,000 | 02:29:35,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:35,000 | 02:29:36,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:36,000 | 02:29:37,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:37,000 | 02:29:38,000 | 現在上會 |
| 02:29:38,000 | 02:29:39,000 | 現在上會 |