iVOD / 17649
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完整會議 @ 第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:02,000 | 00:00:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:04,000 | 00:00:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:06,000 | 00:00:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:08,000 | 00:00:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:10,000 | 00:00:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:12,000 | 00:00:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:14,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:18,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:32,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:42,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:02,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:12,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:32,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:26,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:34,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:44,000 | 00:03:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:09:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:48,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:58,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:28,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:34,000 | 00:10:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:36,000 | 00:10:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:38,000 | 00:10:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:40,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:46,000 | 00:10:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:48,000 | 00:10:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:50,000 | 00:10:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:52,000 | 00:10:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:54,000 | 00:10:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:11:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:00,000 | 00:11:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:02,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:06,000 | 00:11:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:08,000 | 00:11:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:10,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:16,000 | 00:11:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:18,000 | 00:11:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:20,000 | 00:11:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:22,000 | 00:11:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:24,000 | 00:11:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:26,000 | 00:11:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:28,000 | 00:11:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:30,000 | 00:11:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:32,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:36,000 | 00:11:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:38,000 | 00:11:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:40,000 | 00:11:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:42,000 | 00:11:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:44,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:50,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:52,000 | 00:11:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:54,000 | 00:11:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:56,000 | 00:11:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:58,000 | 00:12:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:00,000 | 00:12:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:06,000 | 00:12:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:08,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:16,000 | 00:12:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:18,000 | 00:12:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:20,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:24,000 | 00:12:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:26,000 | 00:12:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:28,000 | 00:12:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:30,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:34,000 | 00:12:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:36,000 | 00:12:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:38,000 | 00:12:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:40,000 | 00:12:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:42,000 | 00:12:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:44,000 | 00:12:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:46,000 | 00:12:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:48,000 | 00:12:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:50,000 | 00:12:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:52,000 | 00:12:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:54,000 | 00:12:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:56,000 | 00:12:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:58,000 | 00:13:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:00,000 | 00:13:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:02,000 | 00:13:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:04,000 | 00:13:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:06,000 | 00:13:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:08,000 | 00:13:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:10,000 | 00:13:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:12,000 | 00:13:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:14,000 | 00:13:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:16,000 | 00:13:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:18,000 | 00:13:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:20,000 | 00:13:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:22,000 | 00:13:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:24,000 | 00:13:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:26,000 | 00:13:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:28,000 | 00:13:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:30,000 | 00:13:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:32,000 | 00:13:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:34,000 | 00:13:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:36,000 | 00:13:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:38,000 | 00:13:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:40,000 | 00:13:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:42,000 | 00:13:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:44,000 | 00:13:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:46,000 | 00:13:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:48,000 | 00:13:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:50,000 | 00:13:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:52,000 | 00:13:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:54,000 | 00:13:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:56,000 | 00:13:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:58,000 | 00:14:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:00,000 | 00:14:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:02,000 | 00:14:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:04,000 | 00:14:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:06,000 | 00:14:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:08,000 | 00:14:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:10,000 | 00:14:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:12,000 | 00:14:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:14,000 | 00:14:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:16,000 | 00:14:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:18,000 | 00:14:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:20,000 | 00:14:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:22,000 | 00:14:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:24,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:28,000 | 00:14:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:30,000 | 00:14:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:32,000 | 00:14:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:34,000 | 00:14:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:36,000 | 00:14:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:38,000 | 00:14:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:40,000 | 00:14:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:42,000 | 00:14:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:44,000 | 00:14:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:46,000 | 00:14:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:48,000 | 00:14:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:50,000 | 00:14:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:52,000 | 00:14:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:54,000 | 00:14:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:56,000 | 00:14:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:58,000 | 00:15:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:00,000 | 00:15:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:02,000 | 00:15:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:04,000 | 00:15:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:06,000 | 00:15:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:08,000 | 00:15:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:10,000 | 00:15:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:12,000 | 00:15:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:14,000 | 00:15:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:16,000 | 00:15:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:18,000 | 00:15:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:20,000 | 00:15:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:22,000 | 00:15:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:24,000 | 00:15:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:26,000 | 00:15:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:28,000 | 00:15:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:30,000 | 00:15:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:32,000 | 00:15:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:34,000 | 00:15:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:36,000 | 00:15:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:38,000 | 00:15:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:40,000 | 00:15:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:42,000 | 00:15:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:44,000 | 00:15:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:46,000 | 00:15:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:48,000 | 00:15:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:50,000 | 00:15:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:52,000 | 00:15:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:54,000 | 00:15:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:56,000 | 00:15:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:58,000 | 00:16:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:00,000 | 00:16:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:02,000 | 00:16:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:04,000 | 00:16:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:06,000 | 00:16:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:08,000 | 00:16:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:10,000 | 00:16:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:12,000 | 00:16:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:14,000 | 00:16:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:16,000 | 00:16:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:18,000 | 00:16:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:20,000 | 00:16:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:22,000 | 00:16:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:24,000 | 00:16:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:26,000 | 00:16:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:28,000 | 00:16:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:30,000 | 00:16:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:32,000 | 00:16:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:34,000 | 00:16:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:36,000 | 00:16:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:38,000 | 00:16:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:40,000 | 00:16:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:42,000 | 00:16:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:44,000 | 00:16:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:46,000 | 00:16:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:48,000 | 00:16:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:50,000 | 00:16:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:52,000 | 00:16:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:54,000 | 00:16:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:56,000 | 00:16:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:58,000 | 00:17:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:00,000 | 00:17:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:02,000 | 00:17:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:04,000 | 00:17:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:06,000 | 00:17:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:08,000 | 00:17:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:10,000 | 00:17:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:12,000 | 00:17:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:14,000 | 00:17:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:16,000 | 00:17:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:18,000 | 00:17:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:20,000 | 00:17:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:22,000 | 00:17:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:24,000 | 00:17:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:26,000 | 00:17:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:28,000 | 00:17:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:30,000 | 00:17:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:32,000 | 00:17:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:34,000 | 00:17:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:36,000 | 00:17:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:38,000 | 00:17:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:40,000 | 00:17:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:42,000 | 00:17:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:44,000 | 00:17:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:46,000 | 00:17:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:48,000 | 00:17:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:50,000 | 00:17:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:52,000 | 00:17:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:54,000 | 00:17:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:56,000 | 00:17:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:58,000 | 00:18:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:00,000 | 00:18:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:02,000 | 00:18:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:04,000 | 00:18:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:06,000 | 00:18:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:08,000 | 00:18:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:10,000 | 00:18:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:12,000 | 00:18:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:14,000 | 00:18:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:16,000 | 00:18:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:18,000 | 00:18:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:20,000 | 00:18:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:22,000 | 00:18:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:24,000 | 00:18:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:26,000 | 00:18:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:28,000 | 00:18:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:30,000 | 00:18:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:32,000 | 00:18:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:34,000 | 00:18:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:36,000 | 00:18:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:38,000 | 00:18:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:40,000 | 00:18:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:42,000 | 00:18:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:44,000 | 00:18:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:46,000 | 00:18:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:48,000 | 00:18:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:50,000 | 00:18:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:52,000 | 00:18:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:54,000 | 00:18:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:56,000 | 00:18:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:58,000 | 00:19:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:00,000 | 00:19:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:02,000 | 00:19:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:04,000 | 00:19:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:06,000 | 00:19:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:08,000 | 00:19:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:10,000 | 00:19:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:12,000 | 00:19:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:14,000 | 00:19:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:16,000 | 00:19:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:18,000 | 00:19:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:20,000 | 00:19:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:22,000 | 00:19:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:24,000 | 00:19:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:26,000 | 00:19:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:28,000 | 00:19:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:30,000 | 00:19:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:32,000 | 00:19:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:34,000 | 00:19:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:36,000 | 00:19:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:38,000 | 00:19:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:40,000 | 00:19:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:42,000 | 00:19:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:44,000 | 00:19:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:46,000 | 00:19:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:48,000 | 00:19:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:50,000 | 00:19:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:52,000 | 00:19:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:54,000 | 00:19:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:56,000 | 00:19:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:58,000 | 00:20:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:00,000 | 00:20:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:02,000 | 00:20:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:04,000 | 00:20:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:06,000 | 00:20:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:08,000 | 00:20:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:10,000 | 00:20:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:12,000 | 00:20:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:14,000 | 00:20:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:16,000 | 00:20:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:18,000 | 00:20:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:20,000 | 00:20:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:22,000 | 00:20:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:24,000 | 00:20:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:26,000 | 00:20:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:28,000 | 00:20:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:30,000 | 00:20:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:32,000 | 00:20:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:34,000 | 00:20:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:36,000 | 00:20:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:38,000 | 00:20:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:40,000 | 00:20:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:42,000 | 00:20:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:44,000 | 00:20:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:46,000 | 00:20:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:48,000 | 00:20:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:50,000 | 00:20:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:52,000 | 00:20:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:54,000 | 00:20:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:56,000 | 00:20:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:58,000 | 00:21:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:00,000 | 00:21:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:02,000 | 00:21:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:04,000 | 00:21:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:06,000 | 00:21:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:08,000 | 00:21:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:10,000 | 00:21:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:12,000 | 00:21:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:14,000 | 00:21:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:16,000 | 00:21:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:18,000 | 00:21:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:20,000 | 00:21:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:22,000 | 00:21:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:24,000 | 00:21:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:26,000 | 00:21:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:28,000 | 00:21:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:30,000 | 00:21:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:32,000 | 00:21:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:34,000 | 00:21:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:36,000 | 00:21:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:38,000 | 00:21:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:40,000 | 00:21:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:42,000 | 00:21:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:44,000 | 00:21:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:46,000 | 00:21:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:48,000 | 00:21:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:50,000 | 00:21:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:52,000 | 00:21:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:54,000 | 00:21:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:56,000 | 00:21:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:58,000 | 00:22:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:00,000 | 00:22:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:02,000 | 00:22:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:04,000 | 00:22:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:06,000 | 00:22:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:08,000 | 00:22:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:10,000 | 00:22:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:12,000 | 00:22:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:14,000 | 00:22:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:16,000 | 00:22:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:18,000 | 00:22:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:20,000 | 00:22:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:22,000 | 00:22:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:24,000 | 00:22:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:26,000 | 00:22:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:28,000 | 00:22:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:30,000 | 00:22:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:32,000 | 00:22:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:34,000 | 00:22:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:36,000 | 00:22:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:38,000 | 00:22:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:40,000 | 00:22:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:42,000 | 00:22:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:44,000 | 00:22:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:46,000 | 00:22:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:48,000 | 00:22:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:50,000 | 00:22:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:52,000 | 00:22:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:54,000 | 00:22:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:56,000 | 00:22:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:58,000 | 00:23:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:00,000 | 00:23:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:02,000 | 00:23:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:04,000 | 00:23:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:06,000 | 00:23:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:08,000 | 00:23:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:10,000 | 00:23:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:12,000 | 00:23:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:14,000 | 00:23:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:16,000 | 00:23:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:18,000 | 00:23:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:20,000 | 00:23:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:22,000 | 00:23:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:24,000 | 00:23:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:26,000 | 00:23:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:28,000 | 00:23:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:30,000 | 00:23:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:32,000 | 00:23:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:34,000 | 00:23:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:36,000 | 00:23:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:38,000 | 00:23:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:40,000 | 00:23:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:42,000 | 00:23:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:44,000 | 00:23:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:46,000 | 00:23:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:48,000 | 00:23:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:50,000 | 00:23:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:52,000 | 00:23:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:54,000 | 00:23:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:56,000 | 00:23:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:58,000 | 00:24:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:00,000 | 00:24:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:02,000 | 00:24:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:04,000 | 00:24:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:06,000 | 00:24:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:08,000 | 00:24:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:10,000 | 00:24:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:12,000 | 00:24:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:14,000 | 00:24:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:16,000 | 00:24:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:18,000 | 00:24:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:20,000 | 00:24:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:22,000 | 00:24:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:24,000 | 00:24:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:26,000 | 00:24:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:28,000 | 00:24:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:30,000 | 00:24:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:32,000 | 00:24:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:34,000 | 00:24:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:36,000 | 00:24:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:38,000 | 00:24:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:40,000 | 00:24:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:42,000 | 00:24:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:44,000 | 00:24:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:46,000 | 00:24:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:48,000 | 00:24:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:50,000 | 00:24:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:52,000 | 00:24:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:54,000 | 00:24:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:56,000 | 00:24:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:58,000 | 00:25:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:00,000 | 00:25:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:02,000 | 00:25:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:04,000 | 00:25:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:06,000 | 00:25:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:08,000 | 00:25:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:10,000 | 00:25:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:12,000 | 00:25:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:14,000 | 00:25:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:16,000 | 00:25:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:18,000 | 00:25:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:20,000 | 00:25:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:22,000 | 00:25:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:24,000 | 00:25:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:26,000 | 00:25:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:28,000 | 00:25:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:30,000 | 00:25:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:32,000 | 00:25:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:34,000 | 00:25:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:36,000 | 00:25:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:38,000 | 00:25:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:40,000 | 00:25:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:42,000 | 00:25:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:44,000 | 00:25:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:46,000 | 00:25:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:48,000 | 00:25:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:50,000 | 00:25:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:52,000 | 00:25:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:54,000 | 00:25:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:56,000 | 00:25:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:25:58,000 | 00:26:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:26:00,000 | 00:26:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:26:02,000 | 00:26:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:26:04,000 | 00:26:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:26:06,000 | 00:26:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:26:08,300 | 00:26:10,000 | 工程官附用 |
| 00:26:11,000 | 00:26:20,000 | 台北縣公務官附用 |
| 00:26:21,200 | 00:26:22,900 | 幹掉花財 |
| 00:26:24,540 | 00:26:26,400 | 雷安德 |
| 00:26:26,400 | 00:26:27,600 | 上台 |
| 00:26:28,000 | 00:26:29,580 | 王家 |
| 00:26:29,580 | 00:26:30,240 | 金💛 |
| 00:26:30,240 | 00:26:36,300 | compr |
| 00:26:36,300 | 00:26:42,419 | 立法院第十一屆第五會期司法及法治委員會第27次全體委員會議議事錄 |
| 00:26:42,419 | 00:26:46,419 | 時間中華民國115年7月29日星期三 |
| 00:26:46,419 | 00:26:49,100 | 上午九時至十時五十九分 |
| 00:26:49,100 | 00:26:51,659 | 地點本院紅樓302會議室 |
| 00:26:51,659 | 00:26:54,220 | 出席委員蔡其昌委員等11人 |
| 00:26:54,220 | 00:26:56,700 | 列席委員蘇清泉委員等1人 |
| 00:26:56,700 | 00:27:00,740 | 列席官員考試院副秘書長龔葵毅等人 |
| 00:27:00,740 | 00:27:03,700 | 主席莊昭吉委員瑞雄 |
| 00:27:03,860 | 00:27:05,580 | 報告事項宣讀上次會議 |
| 00:27:05,580 | 00:27:08,180 | 議事錄決定確定討論事項 |
| 00:27:08,180 | 00:27:10,020 | 一繼續併案審查行政院 |
| 00:27:10,020 | 00:27:11,500 | 和情審議毒品危害 |
| 00:27:11,500 | 00:27:15,700 | 防治條例第33條及第36條條文修正草案 |
| 00:27:15,700 | 00:27:16,820 | 等23案 |
| 00:27:16,820 | 00:27:20,020 | 二繼續審查考試院和情審議公務人員 |
| 00:27:20,020 | 00:27:21,740 | 考機法修正草案案 |
| 00:27:21,740 | 00:27:23,380 | 決議一毒品危害 |
| 00:27:23,380 | 00:27:26,780 | 防治條例第33條及第36條條文修正草案 |
| 00:27:26,780 | 00:27:27,820 | 等23案 |
| 00:27:27,820 | 00:27:29,380 | 進行逐條審查 |
| 00:27:29,380 | 00:27:32,780 | 第三三條第三三條之一及第36條 |
| 00:27:32,780 | 00:27:34,780 | 均保留送院會處理 |
| 00:27:34,780 | 00:27:36,500 | 通過附帶決議一項 |
| 00:27:36,500 | 00:27:38,420 | 本案審查完據擬具審查報告 |
| 00:27:38,420 | 00:27:39,660 | 提請院會公決 |
| 00:27:39,660 | 00:27:41,139 | 須交由黨團協商 |
| 00:27:41,139 | 00:27:42,220 | 院會討論時 |
| 00:27:42,220 | 00:27:44,820 | 由莊昭吉委員瑞雄出席說明 |
| 00:27:44,820 | 00:27:48,139 | 條4引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語 |
| 00:27:48,139 | 00:27:50,300 | 授權主席及議事人員整理 |
| 00:27:50,300 | 00:27:53,020 | 二公務人員考機法修正草案 |
| 00:27:53,020 | 00:27:55,340 | 令定期繼續審查宣讀完畢 |
| 00:27:57,379 | 00:27:59,260 | 好請問這座的委員們 |
| 00:27:59,260 | 00:28:02,379 | 對上次的會議記錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏 |
| 00:28:02,379 | 00:28:03,340 | 好 |
| 00:28:03,340 | 00:28:05,379 | 沒有的話我們由議事錄確定 |
| 00:28:05,379 | 00:28:06,100 | 那接著呢 |
| 00:28:06,100 | 00:28:07,980 | 我首先介紹到場的委員 |
| 00:28:07,980 | 00:28:09,500 | 以及應邀列席的官員 |
| 00:28:09,500 | 00:28:12,700 | 首先先介紹陳昭志委員 |
| 00:28:12,700 | 00:28:13,180 | 好 |
| 00:28:13,180 | 00:28:14,220 | 吳宗憲委員 |
| 00:28:15,660 | 00:28:17,820 | 那麼今天應邀列席的官員 |
| 00:28:17,820 | 00:28:19,500 | 有司法院的秘書長 |
| 00:28:19,500 | 00:28:21,180 | 高秘書長 |
| 00:28:21,180 | 00:28:24,180 | 群序部的政務次長懷旭懷次長 |
| 00:28:24,180 | 00:28:29,140 | 還有這個行政院人事行政總處的 |
| 00:28:29,140 | 00:28:31,380 | 這個張秋元張副人事長 |
| 00:28:31,380 | 00:28:31,580 | 好 |
| 00:28:31,580 | 00:28:32,980 | 那其他的官員 |
| 00:28:32,980 | 00:28:36,300 | 我們就不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄 |
| 00:28:36,300 | 00:28:38,900 | 那本次的會議為兩天一次會議 |
| 00:28:38,900 | 00:28:41,420 | 議程討論事項總共有五案 |
| 00:28:41,420 | 00:28:42,380 | 分別為 |
| 00:28:42,380 | 00:28:43,900 | 病案審查 |
| 00:28:43,900 | 00:28:47,140 | 委員翁曉琳等18人擬具的法院組織法 |
| 00:28:47,140 | 00:28:49,580 | 部分條文修正草案等四案 |
| 00:28:49,580 | 00:28:51,220 | 然後第二就是病案審查 |
| 00:28:51,220 | 00:28:54,420 | 委員翁曉琳等18人擬具的行政院組織法 |
| 00:28:54,420 | 00:28:55,620 | 等三案 |
| 00:28:55,620 | 00:28:57,900 | 然後第三就是病案審查 |
| 00:28:57,900 | 00:29:03,820 | 委員翁曉琳等18人擬具的智慧財產及商業法院組織法 |
| 00:29:03,820 | 00:29:05,620 | 等三案 |
| 00:29:05,620 | 00:29:08,220 | 然後以及第四就是病案審查 |
| 00:29:08,220 | 00:29:12,700 | 委員翁曉琳等18人擬具的少年及家室法院組織法等三案 |
| 00:29:12,700 | 00:29:14,100 | 然後第五是病案審查 |
| 00:29:14,100 | 00:29:19,420 | 委員翁曉琳等18人擬具的懲戒法院組織法等三案 |
| 00:29:19,420 | 00:29:22,460 | 那本次會議就僅進行詢答 |
| 00:29:22,460 | 00:29:30,220 | 因為第二案中的誇號三 |
| 00:29:30,220 | 00:29:31,940 | 第四案中的誇號三 |
| 00:29:31,940 | 00:29:35,180 | 及第五案中的誇號三 |
| 00:29:35,180 | 00:29:38,580 | 並未提出各黨團的不附議同意書 |
| 00:29:38,580 | 00:29:41,860 | 原因開會通知單所載的 |
| 00:29:41,860 | 00:29:44,060 | 所載不予審查 |
| 00:29:46,060 | 00:29:49,260 | 那我們就先進行委員提案說明 |
| 00:29:49,260 | 00:29:51,780 | 那每位發言時間是三分鐘 |
| 00:29:51,780 | 00:29:54,580 | 請提案人先進行提案說明 |
| 00:29:54,580 | 00:29:56,580 | 我也要提起提案說明 |
| 00:29:56,580 | 00:29:57,580 | 好 |
| 00:30:01,580 | 00:30:02,980 | 好謝謝主席 |
| 00:30:02,980 | 00:30:05,780 | 我這邊做提案說明 |
| 00:30:05,780 | 00:30:08,379 | 我自己過去是司法人員 |
| 00:30:08,379 | 00:30:10,379 | 所以我一直有一個想法 |
| 00:30:10,379 | 00:30:12,180 | 就是說有一天我們的司法 |
| 00:30:12,180 | 00:30:15,180 | 實務上面不會再過勞 |
| 00:30:15,180 | 00:30:18,379 | 去喚起這種勉強來維持司法正義 |
| 00:30:18,379 | 00:30:19,580 | 所以從第一個 |
| 00:30:19,580 | 00:30:22,179 | 我自己擔任立法委員第一個會期開始 |
| 00:30:22,179 | 00:30:24,179 | 我擔任司法法制的召委 |
| 00:30:24,179 | 00:30:25,980 | 立法院史上第一次 |
| 00:30:25,980 | 00:30:28,580 | 為司法過勞來開公聽會 |
| 00:30:28,580 | 00:30:30,980 | 所以我當時是請很多基層的法官 |
| 00:30:30,980 | 00:30:33,580 | 檢察官書記官到立法院來 |
| 00:30:33,580 | 00:30:34,980 | 把整個工作量講出來 |
| 00:30:34,980 | 00:30:36,580 | 讓整個國家看到 |
| 00:30:36,580 | 00:30:39,179 | 目前這個案件洪流下面 |
| 00:30:39,179 | 00:30:42,580 | 司法人力吃緊的這個現實狀況 |
| 00:30:42,580 | 00:30:44,980 | 那接著我再一路去爭取 |
| 00:30:44,980 | 00:30:48,580 | 檢察官助理的人力來去協助打詐 |
| 00:30:48,580 | 00:30:50,379 | 那還有打破28年來 |
| 00:30:50,379 | 00:30:53,179 | 一直沒有調漲的書記官的紀錄費 |
| 00:30:53,179 | 00:30:55,379 | 我的一切作為就是希望 |
| 00:30:55,379 | 00:30:58,379 | 為我們的司法爭取到最好的環境 |
| 00:30:58,379 | 00:31:01,980 | 以及把第一線的檔案人力願意留下來 |
| 00:31:01,980 | 00:31:02,980 | 因為這幾年 |
| 00:31:02,980 | 00:31:06,980 | 我們非常多優秀的法官檢察官書記官 |
| 00:31:06,980 | 00:31:09,580 | 或是其他的院檢同仁 |
| 00:31:09,580 | 00:31:11,580 | 都陸陸續續的離職 |
| 00:31:11,580 | 00:31:13,980 | 他們離職不是對國家失去熱情 |
| 00:31:13,980 | 00:31:16,179 | 而他們的離職實在是負荷不了 |
| 00:31:16,180 | 00:31:21,180 | 現在我們的實務的工作上面的案件量 |
| 00:31:21,180 | 00:31:25,180 | 那這次的我修法案組織法 |
| 00:31:25,180 | 00:31:27,180 | 其實我就是要把這個想法 |
| 00:31:27,180 | 00:31:29,180 | 再更具體的制度化 |
| 00:31:29,180 | 00:31:30,980 | 所以內容包括第一個 |
| 00:31:30,980 | 00:31:34,180 | 三等書記官職等從委任四五職等 |
| 00:31:34,180 | 00:31:37,380 | 調高到建任的六職等 |
| 00:31:37,380 | 00:31:39,780 | 然後第二個一二等書記官 |
| 00:31:39,780 | 00:31:43,180 | 佔比從二分之一放寬到三分之二 |
| 00:31:43,180 | 00:31:46,180 | 第三個 罰警長 副罰警長 |
| 00:31:46,180 | 00:31:50,180 | 調高到建任七跟八職等 |
| 00:31:50,180 | 00:31:52,180 | 那我這邊跟司法院的版本 |
| 00:31:52,180 | 00:31:53,180 | 最大的不一樣是 |
| 00:31:53,180 | 00:31:56,180 | 我希望連罰金本身都開放建任六等 |
| 00:31:56,180 | 00:31:58,180 | 不是只有調主管 |
| 00:31:58,180 | 00:32:03,180 | 這個才能夠真正留住第一線的院檢同仁 |
| 00:32:03,180 | 00:32:06,180 | 最後我不只談過勞 我還要談安全 |
| 00:32:06,180 | 00:32:08,180 | 那這幾年我們常看到法院裡面 |
| 00:32:08,180 | 00:32:10,180 | 發生了很多暴力衝突的新聞 |
| 00:32:10,180 | 00:32:13,180 | 那這個就是因為現行法警的職權 |
| 00:32:13,180 | 00:32:16,180 | 搞不清楚 違案的工具也不足 |
| 00:32:16,180 | 00:32:18,180 | 它有一個制度上面的破口 |
| 00:32:18,180 | 00:32:21,180 | 所以這幾年有律師 有當事人 |
| 00:32:21,180 | 00:32:25,180 | 有證人在法庭上面騷擾 甚至受傷 |
| 00:32:25,180 | 00:32:27,180 | 那因為在法警 |
| 00:32:27,180 | 00:32:29,180 | 它是在司法機關裡面維護安全 |
| 00:32:29,180 | 00:32:31,180 | 維護秩序的這個專業司法警察 |
| 00:32:31,180 | 00:32:34,180 | 這次修法我就希望把這個洞補起來 |
| 00:32:34,180 | 00:32:37,180 | 那這個職務內容還包括給予他們 |
| 00:32:37,180 | 00:32:40,180 | 譬如說管束 扣留 安檢 警戒 |
| 00:32:40,180 | 00:32:43,180 | 戒具使用等等的要件要把它寫清楚 |
| 00:32:43,180 | 00:32:46,180 | 配套措施 補償機制都要把它明確化 |
| 00:32:46,180 | 00:32:48,180 | 我們同時也要授權 |
| 00:32:48,180 | 00:32:50,180 | 司法院法務部訂定細則 |
| 00:32:50,180 | 00:32:52,180 | 讓所有的人有法律依據 |
| 00:32:52,180 | 00:32:54,180 | 也有比例原則的保障 |
| 00:32:54,180 | 00:32:56,180 | 大家才敢依法來做事情 |
| 00:32:56,180 | 00:33:00,180 | 我要強調這個修法不是只替司法 |
| 00:33:00,180 | 00:33:02,180 | 爭取工作條件 |
| 00:33:02,180 | 00:33:04,180 | 也是要讓人民去幫人民爭取一個 |
| 00:33:04,180 | 00:33:07,180 | 能夠安心伸張正義的司法環境 |
| 00:33:07,180 | 00:33:09,180 | 因為只有當辦案的人 |
| 00:33:09,180 | 00:33:11,180 | 不被拖垮 不被過牢 |
| 00:33:11,180 | 00:33:13,180 | 當法警有足夠的權限 |
| 00:33:13,180 | 00:33:16,180 | 守住法院地檢署的安全 |
| 00:33:16,180 | 00:33:18,180 | 才能讓每一個走進法院地檢署 |
| 00:33:18,180 | 00:33:21,180 | 爭取公平正義的當事人 證人 被害人 |
| 00:33:21,180 | 00:33:24,180 | 能夠真正安全放心的在法庭 |
| 00:33:24,180 | 00:33:26,180 | 在偵查庭裡面講真話 |
| 00:33:26,180 | 00:33:28,180 | 然後來得到正義 好 謝謝 |
| 00:33:34,180 | 00:33:47,180 | 請提案人翁曉琳委員做提案說明 |
| 00:33:47,180 | 00:33:52,180 | 主席還有在座的委員 |
| 00:33:52,180 | 00:33:54,180 | 還有各位官員大家好 |
| 00:33:54,180 | 00:33:56,180 | 本席這次所提出的 |
| 00:33:56,180 | 00:33:58,180 | 有關於修正法院組織法等等的這幾個案子 |
| 00:33:58,180 | 00:34:01,180 | 主要也是考量到書記官還有法警 |
| 00:34:01,180 | 00:34:04,180 | 他們現在的工作是比早期 |
| 00:34:04,180 | 00:34:08,180 | 前十幾年以來要更為的沉重 |
| 00:34:08,180 | 00:34:11,180 | 主要也是因為我們透過很多的修法 |
| 00:34:11,180 | 00:34:16,180 | 其實也賦予法院更多的職責職務 |
| 00:34:16,180 | 00:34:22,180 | 因為他們的整個工作負擔加大 |
| 00:34:22,180 | 00:34:24,180 | 當然對於相對應的 |
| 00:34:24,180 | 00:34:27,180 | 像薪資待遇還有在執政申請的部分 |
| 00:34:27,179 | 00:34:31,179 | 我們都應該要給予更多的支持跟協助 |
| 00:34:31,179 | 00:34:35,179 | 所以在這一次我們總共修了好幾個 |
| 00:34:35,179 | 00:34:39,179 | 不同都涉及到法院組織法的相關條文 |
| 00:34:39,179 | 00:34:41,179 | 除了法院組織法之外 |
| 00:34:41,179 | 00:34:45,179 | 還有像是行政法院的組織法 |
| 00:34:45,179 | 00:34:48,179 | 以及智慧財產商業法院組織法等等 |
| 00:34:48,179 | 00:34:53,179 | 其目的基本上都是要將目前服務於 |
| 00:34:53,179 | 00:34:56,179 | 這些不同法院的書記官和法警 |
| 00:34:56,179 | 00:34:59,180 | 他們的職等要向上提升 |
| 00:34:59,180 | 00:35:06,180 | 當然司法院基本上也是支持我們這次所提出的修法 |
| 00:35:06,180 | 00:35:10,180 | 主要我們跟司法院的版本比較不同的地方是說 |
| 00:35:10,180 | 00:35:12,180 | 在法警的部分 |
| 00:35:12,180 | 00:35:16,180 | 法警目前都還是屬於比較基層的人員 |
| 00:35:16,180 | 00:35:21,180 | 他們的職等是從三職等到現在的五職等 |
| 00:35:21,180 | 00:35:23,180 | 在這次原來司法院的版本裡面 |
| 00:35:23,180 | 00:35:25,180 | 他們基本上並沒有提出 |
| 00:35:25,180 | 00:35:30,180 | 就是可以在更進一階的調升到建任的六職等 |
| 00:35:30,180 | 00:35:34,180 | 本期在這裡是提出就是可以將法警的職等 |
| 00:35:34,180 | 00:35:38,180 | 再往上更進一階 |
| 00:35:38,180 | 00:35:41,180 | 也就是從現在的委任的三職等 |
| 00:35:41,180 | 00:35:43,180 | 可以到建任的六職等 |
| 00:35:43,180 | 00:35:47,180 | 那麼基本上我想對於整個法院 |
| 00:35:47,180 | 00:35:50,180 | 司法人員的過勞的問題 |
| 00:35:50,180 | 00:35:52,180 | 我們都非常的重視 |
| 00:35:52,180 | 00:35:57,180 | 那麼我們也希望透過這次的人力的職等的調升 |
| 00:35:57,180 | 00:36:02,180 | 可以讓我們司法的人員得到一些實質上的支持 |
| 00:36:02,180 | 00:36:06,180 | 那麼我們也希望透過像這樣的一個做法 |
| 00:36:06,180 | 00:36:09,180 | 未來能夠進一步的改善整個司法工作的環境 |
| 00:36:09,180 | 00:36:10,180 | 好 以上 謝謝 |
| 00:36:22,180 | 00:36:26,180 | 好 接下來我們就請機關代表報告 |
| 00:36:26,180 | 00:36:28,180 | 那每位發言時間是三分鐘 |
| 00:36:28,180 | 00:36:30,180 | 首先我們先有請司法院的秘書長 |
| 00:36:30,180 | 00:36:33,180 | 高金志 高秘書長來進行說明 謝謝 |
| 00:36:39,180 | 00:36:42,180 | 好 主席 各位委員 各位先進 |
| 00:36:42,180 | 00:36:44,180 | 今天封邀列席委員會 |
| 00:36:44,180 | 00:36:46,180 | 就委員 翁委員 |
| 00:36:46,180 | 00:36:48,180 | 還有王毓民 王毓民 |
| 00:36:48,180 | 00:36:50,180 | 所提出來法院組織法 |
| 00:36:50,180 | 00:36:54,180 | 還有行政法院等專業法院組織法 |
| 00:36:54,180 | 00:36:55,180 | 修正草案 |
| 00:36:55,180 | 00:36:57,180 | 代表本院進行報告 |
| 00:36:57,180 | 00:36:58,180 | 並被質詢 |
| 00:36:58,180 | 00:37:01,180 | 請說明本院意見如下 進行指教 |
| 00:37:01,180 | 00:37:04,180 | 首先非常感謝委員們 |
| 00:37:04,180 | 00:37:08,180 | 重視我們書記官還有法警 |
| 00:37:08,180 | 00:37:10,180 | 他們的工作環境以及職等 |
| 00:37:10,180 | 00:37:13,180 | 我相信我們也非常感謝 |
| 00:37:13,180 | 00:37:17,180 | 還有法警他們的工作環境以及職等 |
| 00:37:17,180 | 00:37:20,180 | 我相信這個寫案司法 |
| 00:37:20,180 | 00:37:23,180 | 應該是大家都同意的一句話了 |
| 00:37:23,180 | 00:37:25,180 | 那除了司法院的努力外 |
| 00:37:25,180 | 00:37:27,180 | 可是我們對於這個職等 |
| 00:37:27,180 | 00:37:30,180 | 還有這個工作內容 |
| 00:37:30,180 | 00:37:31,180 | 在組織法上 |
| 00:37:31,180 | 00:37:33,180 | 如同剛剛委員們所提的 |
| 00:37:33,180 | 00:37:34,180 | 並沒有完整 |
| 00:37:34,180 | 00:37:38,180 | 所以我們非常感謝委員們 |
| 00:37:38,180 | 00:37:40,180 | 提出這樣的修正草案 |
| 00:37:41,180 | 00:37:43,180 | 在這個修正草案裡面 |
| 00:37:43,180 | 00:37:45,180 | 非常感謝真的委員們 |
| 00:37:45,180 | 00:37:50,180 | 對於書記官工作職務列等 |
| 00:37:50,180 | 00:37:53,180 | 其實最重要是要暢通他們身兼管道 |
| 00:37:53,180 | 00:37:55,180 | 我們要留用優秀的人才 |
| 00:37:55,180 | 00:37:59,180 | 還有謝謝委員們提升法警職等 |
| 00:37:59,180 | 00:38:01,180 | 然後在這個法案裡面 |
| 00:38:01,180 | 00:38:03,180 | 也來強化分組編制 |
| 00:38:03,180 | 00:38:07,180 | 來明文賦予法警的執法權限 |
| 00:38:07,180 | 00:38:09,180 | 最重要是要維護院界 |
| 00:38:09,180 | 00:38:10,180 | 安全秩序 |
| 00:38:10,180 | 00:38:13,180 | 維護當事人在法院裡面 |
| 00:38:13,180 | 00:38:16,180 | 如同剛剛委員所說的 |
| 00:38:16,180 | 00:38:17,180 | 一個安全的 |
| 00:38:17,180 | 00:38:21,180 | 可以完成他在司法程序裡面 |
| 00:38:21,180 | 00:38:23,180 | 該有的安全環境 |
| 00:38:23,180 | 00:38:25,180 | 那另外最重要的是 |
| 00:38:25,180 | 00:38:27,180 | 在法庭秩序的處罰 |
| 00:38:27,180 | 00:38:29,180 | 我們要及時化 成疾化 |
| 00:38:29,180 | 00:38:33,180 | 讓法官在法庭秩序的維護上 |
| 00:38:33,180 | 00:38:37,180 | 能夠有一個很明確的依據 |
| 00:38:37,180 | 00:38:40,180 | 依據能夠強化法庭秩序 |
| 00:38:40,180 | 00:38:42,180 | 如同委員所說的 |
| 00:38:42,180 | 00:38:47,180 | 這個都是關係到民眾在法院 |
| 00:38:47,180 | 00:38:49,180 | 他在訴訟程序中 |
| 00:38:49,180 | 00:38:51,180 | 所應該有的尊重 |
| 00:38:51,180 | 00:38:53,180 | 以上報告 |
| 00:38:53,180 | 00:38:55,180 | 那也還要再次謝謝委員們 |
| 00:38:55,180 | 00:38:58,180 | 支持我們司法院的工作同仁 |
| 00:38:58,180 | 00:38:59,180 | 謝謝 |
| 00:38:59,180 | 00:39:01,180 | 好 謝謝高秘書長 |
| 00:39:01,180 | 00:39:03,180 | 那接下來我們就有請 |
| 00:39:03,180 | 00:39:06,180 | 全序部的懷次長進行說明 |
| 00:39:08,180 | 00:39:10,180 | 主席各位委員各位女士 |
| 00:39:10,180 | 00:39:11,180 | 今天大家早安 |
| 00:39:11,180 | 00:39:13,180 | 今天大院審查翁曉林委員 |
| 00:39:13,180 | 00:39:15,180 | 等18年擬具的司法院 |
| 00:39:15,180 | 00:39:16,180 | 組織法部門條文 |
| 00:39:16,180 | 00:39:17,180 | 修正查案等16案 |
| 00:39:17,180 | 00:39:19,180 | 那這案子整個方向上面 |
| 00:39:19,180 | 00:39:22,180 | 考試院跟全序部都在 |
| 00:39:22,180 | 00:39:24,180 | 這次的包括書記官 |
| 00:39:24,180 | 00:39:27,180 | 跟護華警長兼任小隊長 |
| 00:39:27,180 | 00:39:29,180 | 這部分我們都全力以以支持 |
| 00:39:29,180 | 00:39:31,180 | 那這案子在上個禮拜 |
| 00:39:31,180 | 00:39:33,180 | 因為這需要兩院會選 |
| 00:39:33,180 | 00:39:34,180 | 或三院會選的 |
| 00:39:34,180 | 00:39:36,180 | 已經經過考試院已經通過 |
| 00:39:36,180 | 00:39:38,180 | 那主要有三個意見 |
| 00:39:38,180 | 00:39:40,180 | 第一個那個書記官的部分 |
| 00:39:40,180 | 00:39:41,180 | 調整部分我們建議 |
| 00:39:41,180 | 00:39:44,180 | 為了其他的在人事法制上明確 |
| 00:39:44,180 | 00:39:47,180 | 因此建議在相關的條文後面明寫 |
| 00:39:47,180 | 00:39:50,180 | 那個在三等書記官總員的 |
| 00:39:50,180 | 00:39:51,180 | 上二分之一得列 |
| 00:39:51,180 | 00:39:53,180 | 兼任第六職等 |
| 00:39:53,180 | 00:39:55,180 | 那法院組織法部門條文 |
| 00:39:55,180 | 00:39:58,180 | 因為增列的第114條之三 |
| 00:39:58,180 | 00:40:01,180 | 有關於本次修正第28條規定 |
| 00:40:01,180 | 00:40:04,180 | 那修正前十日前已經在職的人員 |
| 00:40:04,180 | 00:40:06,180 | 那因為如果萬一沒有具有任用資格 |
| 00:40:06,180 | 00:40:07,180 | 在修正後呢 |
| 00:40:07,180 | 00:40:08,180 | 可以繼續留用 |
| 00:40:08,180 | 00:40:09,180 | 那相關的體力條文 |
| 00:40:09,180 | 00:40:12,180 | 我們建議修正為本法等等等 |
| 00:40:12,180 | 00:40:14,180 | 那施行前已經在職的縣職人員 |
| 00:40:14,180 | 00:40:17,180 | 未居修正後職務任用相關資格者 |
| 00:40:17,180 | 00:40:21,180 | 得繼續留用原職稱員官等職務 |
| 00:40:21,180 | 00:40:22,180 | 至離職為止 |
| 00:40:22,180 | 00:40:24,180 | 這樣讓法制上更為完備 |
| 00:40:24,180 | 00:40:27,180 | 那另外因為懲戒法院組織法第七條 |
| 00:40:27,180 | 00:40:29,180 | 因為只有設法刑跟 |
| 00:40:29,180 | 00:40:31,180 | 法刑長跟法刑職務 |
| 00:40:31,180 | 00:40:33,180 | 那中間沒有一個護法進展登聯 |
| 00:40:33,180 | 00:40:35,180 | 這部分我們建議請司法院 |
| 00:40:35,180 | 00:40:37,180 | 來重新再考慮一下 |
| 00:40:37,180 | 00:40:39,180 | 那另外因為整部的法院組織法 |
| 00:40:39,180 | 00:40:42,180 | 因為它是屬於那個 |
| 00:40:42,180 | 00:40:45,180 | 把所有的官等職等都全部定在法律上面 |
| 00:40:45,180 | 00:40:47,180 | 那事實上在行政院主改以後 |
| 00:40:47,180 | 00:40:49,180 | 包括考試院或行政院相關的組織法律 |
| 00:40:49,180 | 00:40:51,180 | 目前都是改以編制表來訂定 |
| 00:40:51,180 | 00:40:53,180 | 那這部分我們也請司法院來參考 |
| 00:40:53,180 | 00:40:55,180 | 以後未來在相關部分上面 |
| 00:40:55,180 | 00:40:58,180 | 會讓他的組織調整上面會更加彈性 |
| 00:40:58,180 | 00:41:00,180 | 這也請司法院參考 |
| 00:41:00,180 | 00:41:02,180 | 那這次大概委員提案條文 |
| 00:41:02,180 | 00:41:05,180 | 唯一跟目前我們三院或兩院會選 |
| 00:41:05,180 | 00:41:07,180 | 要送到立法院的條文 |
| 00:41:07,180 | 00:41:09,180 | 大概唯一差別是在於說 |
| 00:41:09,180 | 00:41:11,180 | 這次呢那個因為法刑部分 |
| 00:41:11,180 | 00:41:15,180 | 有委員提案建議修正為三到五之等 |
| 00:41:15,180 | 00:41:16,180 | 或建任第六之等 |
| 00:41:16,180 | 00:41:18,180 | 那這部分更好跟公務員認可法第六條 |
| 00:41:18,180 | 00:41:19,180 | 規定說 |
| 00:41:19,180 | 00:41:21,180 | 第二十一個職務可列 |
| 00:41:21,180 | 00:41:23,180 | 二到三職等的規定不相符 |
| 00:41:23,180 | 00:41:25,180 | 而且這一次的這樣的調整 |
| 00:41:25,180 | 00:41:28,180 | 因為我們的那個書記官調整部分 |
| 00:41:28,180 | 00:41:31,180 | 他從他後面他還是有一個 |
| 00:41:31,180 | 00:41:33,180 | 有總員額的一個限制 |
| 00:41:33,180 | 00:41:35,180 | 那同時我們又增設那個隊長 |
| 00:41:35,180 | 00:41:37,180 | 那如果在這樣的調整之下 |
| 00:41:37,180 | 00:41:39,180 | 會讓這一次的三等書記 |
| 00:41:39,180 | 00:41:43,180 | 這樣的調整會比目前的三等書記官的 |
| 00:41:43,180 | 00:41:45,180 | 那個調整更為優厚 |
| 00:41:45,180 | 00:41:46,180 | 因為在這種情況下 |
| 00:41:46,180 | 00:41:49,180 | 而且目前司法的法警 |
| 00:41:49,180 | 00:41:52,180 | 是司法特考的四等考試及格 |
| 00:41:52,180 | 00:41:54,180 | 他禁用從三職等任用 |
| 00:41:54,180 | 00:41:56,180 | 所以跟現行的法警職務列等是相當 |
| 00:41:56,180 | 00:41:59,180 | 所以重上那本部的建議是法警 |
| 00:41:59,180 | 00:42:02,180 | 仍然建議維持現行第三到第五職等 |
| 00:42:02,180 | 00:42:03,180 | 那以上報告 |
| 00:42:03,180 | 00:42:05,180 | 敬請各位委員參考指教謝謝 |
| 00:42:08,180 | 00:42:09,180 | 好謝謝懷次長 |
| 00:42:09,180 | 00:42:12,180 | 那接下來我們有請人事行政總處的 |
| 00:42:12,180 | 00:42:14,180 | 張副人事長來進行說明 |
| 00:42:14,180 | 00:42:17,180 | 主席各位委員各位女士先生大家早安 |
| 00:42:19,180 | 00:42:23,180 | 今天非常感謝大院的司法法制委會 |
| 00:42:23,180 | 00:42:27,180 | 在召開審查法院組織法等五項法案的修正草案 |
| 00:42:27,180 | 00:42:29,180 | 邀請本總處來列席 |
| 00:42:29,180 | 00:42:30,180 | 深感榮幸 |
| 00:42:30,180 | 00:42:35,180 | 那底下我就就總處的意見做簡要的說明 |
| 00:42:35,180 | 00:42:39,180 | 第一項是有關於這個調高三等書記 |
| 00:42:39,180 | 00:42:42,180 | 法警長跟副法監長的職務列等的部分 |
| 00:42:42,180 | 00:42:47,180 | 那這個部分是可以適度反應他們的職責程度 |
| 00:42:47,180 | 00:42:49,180 | 這個部門進表支持 |
| 00:42:49,180 | 00:42:52,180 | 那是職務列等的部分是考試院的權責 |
| 00:42:52,180 | 00:42:56,180 | 所以我們也尊重全部的說明跟大院審查的結果 |
| 00:42:56,180 | 00:43:01,180 | 那第二個部分是有關於調整法院檢查機關的 |
| 00:43:01,180 | 00:43:04,180 | 一等書記官跟二等法官的檢查機關 |
| 00:43:04,180 | 00:43:08,180 | 那這個部分在111年跟114年 |
| 00:43:08,180 | 00:43:12,180 | 這個考試院跟刑事院其實有會選修正了兩次的 |
| 00:43:12,180 | 00:43:17,180 | 各機關職稱級官等職等原有配置準則 |
| 00:43:17,180 | 00:43:22,180 | 那這次方向都是朝降低委任官等的配置比例 |
| 00:43:22,180 | 00:43:26,180 | 來充實機關見認的核心能力的方向 |
| 00:43:26,180 | 00:43:30,180 | 來進行調整法院檢查機關的 |
| 00:43:30,180 | 00:43:35,180 | 那這次的這個法案是跟這個政策方向是相一致的 |
| 00:43:35,180 | 00:43:38,180 | 那這個部分我們也表示支持 |
| 00:43:38,180 | 00:43:41,180 | 並且尊重大院的審議的結果 |
| 00:43:41,180 | 00:43:43,180 | 那第三個部分是有關於 |
| 00:43:43,180 | 00:43:48,180 | 鎮定各該組織法修正前已經在職的法警長 |
| 00:43:48,180 | 00:43:54,180 | 他未具原職務列等調整後的職務任用資格 |
| 00:43:54,180 | 00:43:56,180 | 可以留意到這個法案 |
| 00:43:56,180 | 00:43:59,180 | 這個調整後的這個職務的任用資格 |
| 00:43:59,180 | 00:44:01,180 | 可以留用的這個部分 |
| 00:44:01,180 | 00:44:03,180 | 那這個部分我們尊重主管機關 |
| 00:44:03,180 | 00:44:06,180 | 全區部的意見跟大院審議的結果 |
| 00:44:06,180 | 00:44:07,180 | 以上報告 |
| 00:44:08,180 | 00:44:11,180 | 好謝謝張副人事長的說明 |
| 00:44:11,180 | 00:44:17,180 | 那其餘提出書面報告的機關還有沒有要做口頭補充的 |
| 00:44:17,180 | 00:44:21,180 | 沒有的話那麼我們機關代表就報告完畢 |
| 00:44:21,180 | 00:44:25,180 | 相關書面內容就請各位參閱並且列入公報記錄 |
| 00:44:25,180 | 00:44:27,180 | 現在我們就開始進行詢答 |
| 00:44:27,180 | 00:44:32,180 | 本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘 |
| 00:44:32,180 | 00:44:36,180 | 非本會委員質詢的詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長 |
| 00:44:36,180 | 00:44:39,180 | 那麼上午10點30分我們就截止發言登記 |
| 00:44:39,180 | 00:44:43,180 | 現在先請登記第一位的陳肇志委員進行發言 |
| 00:44:48,180 | 00:44:51,180 | 謝謝主席有請司法院高秘書長 |
| 00:44:51,180 | 00:44:55,180 | 人種的副人事長全區部次長跟法務部的代表 |
| 00:44:55,180 | 00:45:00,180 | 好麻煩這幾位長官可以到備詢台謝謝 |
| 00:45:02,180 | 00:45:05,180 | 好那四位首長早安 |
| 00:45:05,180 | 00:45:11,180 | 麻煩你就跟我一起先來看看這幾年來地院的案件量 |
| 00:45:11,180 | 00:45:15,180 | 過去11年地方法院民事案件的部分在左邊 |
| 00:45:15,180 | 00:45:19,180 | 新收案件暴增46% |
| 00:45:19,180 | 00:45:23,180 | 未截件數暴增154% |
| 00:45:23,180 | 00:45:29,180 | 那至於刑事案件右邊的部分未截件的數暴增122% |
| 00:45:29,180 | 00:45:34,180 | 那過去刑事案每一個案就是說平均每件所需要的天數是66天 |
| 00:45:34,180 | 00:45:37,180 | 現在已經拉長到112天 |
| 00:45:37,180 | 00:45:41,180 | 那背後的原因我想各位首長應該能夠理解 |
| 00:45:41,180 | 00:45:45,180 | 那接下來我們繼續看地檢署的案件量 |
| 00:45:45,180 | 00:45:47,180 | 新收案件逐年遞增 |
| 00:45:47,180 | 00:45:51,180 | 去年新收案件將近70萬件 |
| 00:45:51,180 | 00:45:53,180 | 未截件數13萬件 |
| 00:45:53,180 | 00:45:57,180 | 案量一直增加怎麼處理得完呢 |
| 00:46:00,180 | 00:46:02,180 | 那我們再繼續來看 |
| 00:46:02,180 | 00:46:05,180 | 最近幾年這個大家大概都清楚 |
| 00:46:05,180 | 00:46:08,180 | 地檢署跟法院的案量暴增 |
| 00:46:08,180 | 00:46:10,180 | 不只是說書記官過勞 |
| 00:46:10,180 | 00:46:13,180 | 現在還有法警剛剛幾位我也提到 |
| 00:46:13,180 | 00:46:15,180 | 還要維持這個法庭秩序 |
| 00:46:15,180 | 00:46:16,180 | 要壓解人犯 |
| 00:46:16,180 | 00:46:18,180 | 他的勤務越來越重 |
| 00:46:18,180 | 00:46:22,180 | 那現在的升遷體制根本留不住人 |
| 00:46:22,180 | 00:46:24,180 | 那這次司法院提出修法 |
| 00:46:24,180 | 00:46:27,180 | 可是我的辦公室受到很多的陳情 |
| 00:46:27,180 | 00:46:29,180 | 基層法警問 |
| 00:46:29,180 | 00:46:32,180 | 為什麼只有法警長跟副法警長 |
| 00:46:32,180 | 00:46:34,180 | 他這個直接是提升的 |
| 00:46:34,180 | 00:46:37,180 | 那基層法警承擔了很多工作 |
| 00:46:37,180 | 00:46:40,180 | 直接卻沒有提升這樣合理嗎 |
| 00:46:40,180 | 00:46:43,180 | 所以我主張基層法警值等 |
| 00:46:43,180 | 00:46:45,180 | 應該一併提升 |
| 00:46:45,180 | 00:46:48,180 | 我看是不是全序部跟司法院 |
| 00:46:48,180 | 00:46:51,180 | 能夠先做這個部分就再回答 |
| 00:46:53,180 | 00:46:55,180 | 可以就是基層法警 |
| 00:46:55,180 | 00:46:57,180 | 為什麼這次都沒有去改變呢 |
| 00:46:57,180 | 00:46:59,180 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:46:59,180 | 00:47:03,180 | 因為當初這個在跟全序部協商的時候 |
| 00:47:03,180 | 00:47:05,180 | 全序部商量的時候 |
| 00:47:05,180 | 00:47:07,180 | 也是有考慮到剛剛全序部所講的 |
| 00:47:07,180 | 00:47:09,180 | 那些值等問題 |
| 00:47:09,180 | 00:47:11,180 | 所以就沒有想到說 |
| 00:47:11,180 | 00:47:14,180 | 就暫時先讓法監長 |
| 00:47:14,180 | 00:47:17,180 | 還有他們可以分小隊長先來做 |
| 00:47:17,180 | 00:47:19,180 | 我還是希望你針對我的問題 |
| 00:47:19,180 | 00:47:20,180 | 好像時間有限 |
| 00:47:20,180 | 00:47:22,180 | 就是基層的法警 |
| 00:47:22,180 | 00:47:24,180 | 為什麼都不動他呢 |
| 00:47:24,180 | 00:47:27,180 | 就是剛剛跟委員報告 |
| 00:47:27,180 | 00:47:28,180 | 就是剛剛有一張小量 |
| 00:47:28,180 | 00:47:30,180 | 可是老實說 |
| 00:47:30,180 | 00:47:33,180 | 我們也是希望他們能夠提升 |
| 00:47:33,180 | 00:47:35,180 | 所以非常感謝委員 |
| 00:47:35,180 | 00:47:38,180 | 能夠在這一次的修法裡面 |
| 00:47:38,180 | 00:47:39,180 | 一併把基層 |
| 00:47:39,180 | 00:47:40,180 | 你覺得障礙是什麼 |
| 00:47:40,180 | 00:47:42,180 | 法警你基本法沒有 |
| 00:47:42,180 | 00:47:46,180 | 當初的障礙只是單純考試列等的關係 |
| 00:47:46,180 | 00:47:48,180 | 考量到這個問題而已 |
| 00:47:48,180 | 00:47:51,180 | 可是就如同委員所說的 |
| 00:47:51,180 | 00:47:52,180 | 基層法警就如同 |
| 00:47:52,180 | 00:47:53,180 | 因為案件量增加 |
| 00:47:53,180 | 00:47:55,180 | 工作一定增加 |
| 00:47:55,180 | 00:47:57,180 | 責任也增加 |
| 00:47:57,180 | 00:47:58,180 | 當然一定是的 |
| 00:47:58,180 | 00:47:59,180 | 公務內容 |
| 00:47:59,180 | 00:48:01,180 | 那為什麼沒有考慮到基層法警呢 |
| 00:48:01,180 | 00:48:03,180 | 就是剛剛跟委員報告 |
| 00:48:03,180 | 00:48:06,180 | 當時就考量到考試關係什麼關係 |
| 00:48:06,180 | 00:48:08,180 | 所以一下子就這樣決定了 |
| 00:48:08,180 | 00:48:09,180 | 謝謝委員 |
| 00:48:09,180 | 00:48:12,180 | 那我全序部有回答嗎 |
| 00:48:12,180 | 00:48:14,180 | 那個我跟委員報告一下 |
| 00:48:14,180 | 00:48:15,180 | 因為第一個 |
| 00:48:15,180 | 00:48:17,180 | 現行公務員任用法第六條已經規定了 |
| 00:48:17,180 | 00:48:18,180 | 他說每個職等 |
| 00:48:18,180 | 00:48:20,180 | 最多是跨二或三職等 |
| 00:48:20,180 | 00:48:22,180 | 那現行法警已經是從三到五職等 |
| 00:48:22,180 | 00:48:23,180 | 已經跨到三職等 |
| 00:48:23,180 | 00:48:25,180 | 市長我明白你講的理由 |
| 00:48:25,180 | 00:48:26,180 | 第一個我要跟你講 |
| 00:48:26,180 | 00:48:28,180 | 有個權理制度不是嗎 |
| 00:48:28,180 | 00:48:30,180 | 有個權益制度你們也在用 |
| 00:48:30,180 | 00:48:31,180 | 為什麼不能用 |
| 00:48:31,180 | 00:48:32,180 | 這是第一個 |
| 00:48:32,180 | 00:48:33,180 | 第二個 |
| 00:48:33,180 | 00:48:35,180 | 所有的制度都是人定的 |
| 00:48:35,180 | 00:48:37,180 | 你要與時俱進 |
| 00:48:37,180 | 00:48:39,180 | 如果人在流失 |
| 00:48:39,180 | 00:48:40,180 | 工作量在增加 |
| 00:48:40,180 | 00:48:43,180 | 你還要保持幾十年前的規定嗎 |
| 00:48:43,180 | 00:48:44,180 | 市長對不對 |
| 00:48:44,180 | 00:48:46,180 | 就是說這個權益 |
| 00:48:46,180 | 00:48:48,180 | 你們有個權益制度 |
| 00:48:48,180 | 00:48:50,180 | 就是權益制度 |
| 00:48:50,180 | 00:48:52,180 | 那很多法規為什麼要重修 |
| 00:48:52,180 | 00:48:54,180 | 就是要與時俱進 |
| 00:48:54,180 | 00:48:56,180 | 所以制度是人定的 |
| 00:48:56,180 | 00:48:58,180 | 我是覺得這個理由不該成為理由 |
| 00:48:58,180 | 00:49:00,180 | 這是市長我讓你做一下參考 |
| 00:49:00,180 | 00:49:02,180 | 那我們再來看一下 |
| 00:49:02,180 | 00:49:04,180 | 司法院提出的法院組織法 |
| 00:49:04,180 | 00:49:06,180 | 副表修正 |
| 00:49:06,180 | 00:49:08,180 | 修改了法官檢察官書記官的原額 |
| 00:49:08,180 | 00:49:10,180 | 但我仔細看其實問題很大 |
| 00:49:10,180 | 00:49:12,180 | 以地方法院來說 |
| 00:49:12,180 | 00:49:13,180 | 左邊這裡 |
| 00:49:13,180 | 00:49:14,180 | 第一類的地院 |
| 00:49:14,180 | 00:49:17,180 | 法官家庭長本來最高原額是200人 |
| 00:49:17,180 | 00:49:19,180 | 書記官最高原額是300人 |
| 00:49:19,180 | 00:49:21,180 | 修正草案第一類之一 |
| 00:49:21,180 | 00:49:25,180 | 就是說案量30萬件以上的法院 |
| 00:49:25,180 | 00:49:27,180 | 法官最高的原額是200人 |
| 00:49:27,180 | 00:49:29,180 | 最高的原額是250人 |
| 00:49:29,180 | 00:49:31,180 | 書記官是375人 |
| 00:49:31,180 | 00:49:35,180 | 那法官跟書記官的配比 |
| 00:49:35,180 | 00:49:37,180 | 依然是1比1.5 |
| 00:49:37,180 | 00:49:39,180 | 為什麼會這樣呢 |
| 00:49:39,180 | 00:49:42,180 | 案量增加1.5倍夠嗎 |
| 00:49:42,180 | 00:49:44,180 | 是不是司法院先回答這一點 |
| 00:49:44,180 | 00:49:45,180 | 你覺得這樣夠嗎 |
| 00:49:45,180 | 00:49:47,180 | 這個配比夠嗎合理嗎 |
| 00:49:47,180 | 00:49:48,180 | 委員報告 |
| 00:49:48,180 | 00:49:49,180 | 案量增加 |
| 00:49:49,180 | 00:49:51,180 | 法官跟書記官同時都有負擔 |
| 00:49:51,180 | 00:49:53,180 | 其實就配比來講 |
| 00:49:53,180 | 00:49:55,180 | 夠不夠 |
| 00:49:55,180 | 00:49:58,180 | 我很難講說一定夠 |
| 00:49:58,180 | 00:50:00,180 | 因為書記官工作的增加 |
| 00:50:00,180 | 00:50:01,180 | 老實說 |
| 00:50:01,180 | 00:50:03,180 | 我覺得應該要到1.8到2左右 |
| 00:50:03,180 | 00:50:04,180 | 因為我曾經說 |
| 00:50:04,180 | 00:50:06,180 | 書記官工作現在幾乎是2.2 |
| 00:50:06,180 | 00:50:07,180 | 你說應該到多少 |
| 00:50:07,180 | 00:50:08,180 | 1.8到2 |
| 00:50:08,180 | 00:50:10,180 | 1.8到是理想是不是 |
| 00:50:10,180 | 00:50:12,180 | 可是那同樣的 |
| 00:50:12,180 | 00:50:15,180 | 老實說不止書記官原額要增加 |
| 00:50:15,180 | 00:50:17,180 | 法官原額也要增加 |
| 00:50:17,180 | 00:50:18,180 | 好 民主黨你講的這個 |
| 00:50:18,180 | 00:50:21,180 | 當然表面上是合情合理 |
| 00:50:21,180 | 00:50:22,180 | 但是你也知道 |
| 00:50:22,180 | 00:50:23,180 | 書記官流失很多 |
| 00:50:23,180 | 00:50:24,180 | 流失很多 |
| 00:50:24,180 | 00:50:25,180 | 我先稍微等一下 |
| 00:50:25,180 | 00:50:27,180 | 我再請問你講 |
| 00:50:27,180 | 00:50:30,180 | 總緣合法有沒有限制你這個處理 |
| 00:50:30,180 | 00:50:32,180 | 總緣合法本身有沒有限定 |
| 00:50:32,180 | 00:50:35,180 | 限制了你這個對於這個配比 |
| 00:50:35,180 | 00:50:37,180 | 總緣合法本身 |
| 00:50:37,180 | 00:50:38,180 | 沒有嗎 有 |
| 00:50:38,180 | 00:50:41,180 | 配比不是在總緣合法限制 |
| 00:50:41,180 | 00:50:42,180 | 總緣合法是限制了 |
| 00:50:42,180 | 00:50:44,180 | 我們所有的人數 |
| 00:50:44,180 | 00:50:45,180 | 對 但是我剛剛強調說 |
| 00:50:45,180 | 00:50:47,180 | 書記官就是不夠 |
| 00:50:47,180 | 00:50:48,180 | 對 不夠 |
| 00:50:48,180 | 00:50:50,180 | 很多法官還甚至在幫忙書記官 |
| 00:50:50,180 | 00:50:52,180 | 這樣怎麼讓法官好好做事 |
| 00:50:52,180 | 00:50:54,180 | 都有 他們就要互相合作 |
| 00:50:54,180 | 00:50:55,180 | 所以我的重點說 |
| 00:50:55,180 | 00:50:56,180 | 為什麼這個配比 |
| 00:50:56,180 | 00:50:57,180 | 你覺得合理嗎 |
| 00:50:57,180 | 00:50:58,180 | 能夠調高我是費事 |
| 00:50:58,180 | 00:51:00,180 | 那總緣合法你就老實說 |
| 00:51:00,180 | 00:51:02,180 | 我再給你支持 |
| 00:51:02,180 | 00:51:03,180 | 你覺得會不會有限制 |
| 00:51:03,180 | 00:51:04,180 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:51:04,180 | 00:51:06,180 | 總緣合法是我們的魔咒 |
| 00:51:06,180 | 00:51:08,180 | 魔咒 謝謝你 |
| 00:51:08,180 | 00:51:09,180 | 來 請問任總 |
| 00:51:09,180 | 00:51:11,180 | 來 任總麻煩 |
| 00:51:11,180 | 00:51:13,180 | 為什麼要限制總緣合 |
| 00:51:13,180 | 00:51:14,180 | 詐騙案這麼多 |
| 00:51:14,180 | 00:51:17,180 | 地檢跟地院都要崩了 |
| 00:51:17,180 | 00:51:19,180 | 書記官累到沒人想做 |
| 00:51:19,180 | 00:51:20,180 | 你繼續砍原額 |
| 00:51:20,180 | 00:51:21,180 | 你繼續砍原額 |
| 00:51:21,180 | 00:51:23,180 | 你校上地檢跟法院整個 |
| 00:51:23,180 | 00:51:24,180 | 癱瘓掉嗎 |
| 00:51:24,180 | 00:51:26,180 | 1.5倍顯然就不夠 |
| 00:51:26,180 | 00:51:28,180 | 1.5倍顯然不夠 |
| 00:51:28,180 | 00:51:30,180 | 對不對 任總 |
| 00:51:30,180 | 00:51:32,180 | 你們聽到這個說法嗎 |
| 00:51:32,180 | 00:51:34,180 | 你聽到我談的話嗎 |
| 00:51:34,180 | 00:51:35,180 | 就不夠 |
| 00:51:35,180 | 00:51:37,180 | 你怎麼在學健保那個總額 |
| 00:51:37,180 | 00:51:38,180 | 那個問題出很大 |
| 00:51:38,180 | 00:51:39,180 | 你這裡也可以學這個總額制 |
| 00:51:39,180 | 00:51:41,180 | 你要看與時俱進 |
| 00:51:41,180 | 00:51:43,180 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:51:43,180 | 00:51:46,180 | 其實在司法的原額的這個 |
| 00:51:46,180 | 00:51:48,180 | 你限制總緣合 |
| 00:51:48,180 | 00:51:50,180 | 就是寬恕 這是魔咒 |
| 00:51:50,180 | 00:51:52,180 | 今天秘書長老實講 |
| 00:51:52,180 | 00:51:54,180 | 我給他做支持 我支持他 |
| 00:51:54,180 | 00:51:57,180 | 魔咒 現在回到你們身上 |
| 00:51:57,180 | 00:51:59,180 | 這個魔咒要打開 |
| 00:51:59,180 | 00:52:02,180 | 我來跟這個委員做報告 |
| 00:52:02,180 | 00:52:05,180 | 在我們科技官 |
| 00:52:05,180 | 00:52:08,180 | 在近十年其實就是 |
| 00:52:08,180 | 00:52:10,180 | 它的原額的增減 |
| 00:52:10,180 | 00:52:15,180 | 是算是比較平盤的這個狀態底下 |
| 00:52:15,180 | 00:52:16,180 | 平盤就是沒有增加 |
| 00:52:16,180 | 00:52:18,180 | 近十年增加 |
| 00:52:18,180 | 00:52:20,180 | 司法機關跟檢察機關原額 |
| 00:52:20,180 | 00:52:22,180 | 大概有三千個左右 |
| 00:52:22,180 | 00:52:23,180 | 限制總額也許是個防火 |
| 00:52:23,180 | 00:52:25,180 | 兩千九百七十一個人 |
| 00:52:25,180 | 00:52:28,180 | 那司法院大概增加了一千四百七十六 |
| 00:52:28,180 | 00:52:31,180 | 檢察機關增加了一千四百九十五 |
| 00:52:31,180 | 00:52:35,180 | 那剛剛提到的這個 |
| 00:52:35,180 | 00:52:37,180 | 其實目前司法機關 |
| 00:52:37,180 | 00:52:39,180 | 還在考試分發或領埔中 |
| 00:52:39,180 | 00:52:41,180 | 或者是未運用的缺額 |
| 00:52:41,180 | 00:52:43,180 | 其實還有一千一百一十九個 |
| 00:52:43,180 | 00:52:45,180 | 檢察機關有四百七十八個 |
| 00:52:45,180 | 00:52:47,180 | 我剛剛給你那麼多的數字 |
| 00:52:47,180 | 00:52:49,180 | 你那個總原額的先生你好好聽 |
| 00:52:49,180 | 00:52:51,180 | 我現在跟他們站在一起 |
| 00:52:51,180 | 00:52:54,180 | 這個不及司法院的 |
| 00:52:54,180 | 00:52:55,180 | 我現在想麻煩司法院 |
| 00:52:55,180 | 00:52:58,180 | 秘書長我請你回去研議多少比例 |
| 00:52:58,180 | 00:53:00,180 | 以現在目前的業務量 |
| 00:53:00,180 | 00:53:03,180 | 你認為多少比例是比較恰當的 |
| 00:53:03,180 | 00:53:05,180 | 我完全支持你 |
| 00:53:05,180 | 00:53:06,180 | 你請你給我答案 |
| 00:53:06,180 | 00:53:09,180 | 然後我請任總要來思考 |
| 00:53:09,180 | 00:53:11,180 | 好嗎這個問題很重要 |
| 00:53:11,180 | 00:53:12,180 | 我現在再請教司法院 |
| 00:53:12,180 | 00:53:13,180 | 我們來看高等法院 |
| 00:53:13,180 | 00:53:15,180 | 現在不是只有這個地院的問題 |
| 00:53:15,180 | 00:53:16,180 | 第一類法庭院長 |
| 00:53:16,180 | 00:53:19,180 | 法庭庭長將法官本來最高四百八十人 |
| 00:53:19,180 | 00:53:20,180 | 書記官四百八十八人 |
| 00:53:20,180 | 00:53:23,180 | 修正查案變成了法官三百六十人 |
| 00:53:23,180 | 00:53:25,180 | 書記官三百六十八人 |
| 00:53:25,180 | 00:53:26,180 | 為什麼原額變少了 |
| 00:53:26,180 | 00:53:27,180 | 請你告訴我 |
| 00:53:27,180 | 00:53:29,180 | 為什麼原額變少了呢 |
| 00:53:31,180 | 00:53:32,180 | 來我聽問你 |
| 00:53:32,180 | 00:53:33,180 | 又是總原額法嗎 |
| 00:53:33,180 | 00:53:35,180 | 你挪來挪去嗎 |
| 00:53:35,180 | 00:53:37,180 | 為什麼沒有變少 |
| 00:53:37,180 | 00:53:38,180 | 工作量減少嗎 |
| 00:53:38,180 | 00:53:40,180 | 為什麼我剛剛已經秀資料了 |
| 00:53:40,180 | 00:53:42,180 | 為什麼這裡是原額變少呢 |
| 00:53:42,180 | 00:53:43,180 | 給我一個清楚的理由好嗎 |
| 00:53:43,180 | 00:53:45,180 | 很簡單的清楚理由 |
| 00:53:45,180 | 00:53:47,180 | 其實很簡單 |
| 00:53:47,180 | 00:53:49,180 | 為什麼變少 |
| 00:53:49,180 | 00:53:55,180 | 第一個地院的案件是增加的非常快 |
| 00:53:55,180 | 00:53:57,180 | 那高院的案件稍微慢一點 |
| 00:53:57,180 | 00:53:58,180 | 相對也會增加 |
| 00:53:58,180 | 00:53:59,180 | 對相對會增加 |
| 00:53:59,180 | 00:54:01,180 | 因為它慢所以我們就保守一點 |
| 00:54:01,180 | 00:54:03,180 | 當然最重要還是總原額法 |
| 00:54:03,180 | 00:54:05,180 | 好就暫停 |
| 00:54:05,180 | 00:54:06,180 | 暫停 |
| 00:54:06,180 | 00:54:09,180 | 好任總麻煩你來附人事長 |
| 00:54:09,180 | 00:54:12,180 | 高院也是要接受全國上訴的案件 |
| 00:54:12,180 | 00:54:13,180 | 你看看右邊這個地方 |
| 00:54:13,180 | 00:54:16,180 | 今年一月到六月民事上訴就六千六百七十二件 |
| 00:54:16,180 | 00:54:20,180 | 刑事上訴一萬四千八百三十九件 |
| 00:54:20,180 | 00:54:21,180 | 老實說啦 |
| 00:54:21,180 | 00:54:23,180 | 大家都過勞了啦 |
| 00:54:23,180 | 00:54:25,180 | 我們今天才談到這個修法嘛 |
| 00:54:25,180 | 00:54:28,180 | 那結果非但不提高整體的原額 |
| 00:54:28,180 | 00:54:30,180 | 還把原額挪來挪去 |
| 00:54:30,180 | 00:54:32,180 | 像話嗎 |
| 00:54:32,180 | 00:54:34,180 | 你要這樣卡到什麼時候呢 |
| 00:54:34,180 | 00:54:35,180 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:54:35,180 | 00:54:37,180 | 其實剛好已經有跟委員報告了 |
| 00:54:37,180 | 00:54:41,180 | 在各機關的這個總數沒有變動之下 |
| 00:54:41,180 | 00:54:45,180 | 其實司法跟檢察機關我們近十年已經補了三千個 |
| 00:54:45,180 | 00:54:47,180 | 沒有你上一次你上一次挪到108年 |
| 00:54:47,180 | 00:54:52,180 | 現在其實司法體系這個業務量大的問題其實大家都看到 |
| 00:54:52,180 | 00:54:54,180 | 然後大家一起在解決這個問題 |
| 00:54:54,180 | 00:54:57,180 | 從補充人力提高待遇 |
| 00:54:57,180 | 00:54:59,180 | 其實剛剛也有委員 |
| 00:54:59,180 | 00:55:01,180 | 兩個都有嘛這個互聯網是缺乏應用嘛 |
| 00:55:01,180 | 00:55:04,180 | 另外今天要處理的就是提高列等 |
| 00:55:04,180 | 00:55:07,180 | 然後另外一個其實我們在五六月的時候 |
| 00:55:07,180 | 00:55:10,180 | 有到司法院跟檢察機關 |
| 00:55:10,180 | 00:55:13,180 | 你就告訴我原額法你要不要好好檢討一下嘛 |
| 00:55:13,180 | 00:55:18,180 | 總緣法其實有它的機制可以處理啦 |
| 00:55:18,180 | 00:55:20,180 | 我現在請教法務部代表 |
| 00:55:20,180 | 00:55:23,180 | 我們來看看地檢署以現在詐騙案量這麼多 |
| 00:55:23,180 | 00:55:26,180 | 有這麼多申請定執行型的這個業務量 |
| 00:55:26,180 | 00:55:29,180 | 這次的檢察官數據官原額所增加的量 |
| 00:55:29,180 | 00:55:31,180 | 請你回答我 |
| 00:55:31,180 | 00:55:33,180 | 你覺得夠嗎 |
| 00:55:33,180 | 00:55:34,180 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:55:34,180 | 00:55:35,180 | 要不要再想一想夠嗎 |
| 00:55:35,180 | 00:55:39,180 | 我們當然還是希望那個就是司法人員的人數可以增加 |
| 00:55:39,180 | 00:55:42,180 | 因為現在確實在打擊犯罪上大家都很努力 |
| 00:55:42,180 | 00:55:44,180 | 所以案件量是非常大的 |
| 00:55:44,180 | 00:55:46,180 | 那你有受到總緣額影響嗎 |
| 00:55:46,180 | 00:55:47,180 | 當然有啊 |
| 00:55:47,180 | 00:55:51,180 | 當然有嘛當然有嘛總緣額影響嘛 |
| 00:55:51,180 | 00:55:55,180 | 所以這個我想說就因為今天是司長來啦 |
| 00:55:55,180 | 00:55:57,180 | 你真的要為你的基層們 |
| 00:55:57,180 | 00:55:59,180 | 我今天就當作你代表部長來 |
| 00:55:59,180 | 00:56:02,180 | 你要為你的基層想一想 |
| 00:56:02,180 | 00:56:04,180 | 到底這樣夠不夠 |
| 00:56:04,180 | 00:56:06,180 | 有什麼障礙跟困難 |
| 00:56:06,180 | 00:56:07,180 | 要讓我們知道啊 |
| 00:56:07,180 | 00:56:09,180 | 所以大家還是回到一個總緣額量 |
| 00:56:09,180 | 00:56:10,180 | 這簡直是魔咒 |
| 00:56:10,180 | 00:56:12,180 | 我們想辦法把它拆開 |
| 00:56:12,180 | 00:56:14,180 | 也不是說大開放嘛 |
| 00:56:14,180 | 00:56:16,180 | 我們要有一個合理的數字嘛 |
| 00:56:16,180 | 00:56:18,180 | 我剛剛一開始努力給你們這麼多的數字 |
| 00:56:18,180 | 00:56:21,180 | 好我現在再請這個司法院法務部連總看看這個新聞 |
| 00:56:21,180 | 00:56:24,180 | 今年三月開始書記官的紀錄費 |
| 00:56:24,180 | 00:56:26,180 | 剛剛這個委員也有提到 |
| 00:56:26,180 | 00:56:29,180 | 有4,700條到6,070元 |
| 00:56:29,180 | 00:56:31,180 | 這個是動漲28年以後耶 |
| 00:56:31,180 | 00:56:33,180 | 第一次調整耶 |
| 00:56:33,180 | 00:56:35,180 | 可是今年五月媒體吧 |
| 00:56:35,180 | 00:56:36,180 | 以新北來說嘛 |
| 00:56:36,180 | 00:56:38,180 | 他缺 71人拿2個人報到啊 |
| 00:56:38,180 | 00:56:41,180 | 你這個提升的幅度就是不夠啊 |
| 00:56:41,180 | 00:56:45,180 | 那你現在怎麼處理這件事情 |
| 00:56:45,180 | 00:56:47,180 | 書記官遠遠不夠你怎麼處理這個問題 |
| 00:56:47,180 | 00:56:50,180 | 就是說基金的紀錄費 |
| 00:56:50,180 | 00:56:52,180 | 這個我們對一些人才的流失 |
| 00:56:52,180 | 00:56:54,180 | 基本上就兩件事嘛 |
| 00:56:54,180 | 00:56:55,180 | 一個是薪資待遇嘛 |
| 00:56:55,180 | 00:56:57,180 | 一個是工作環境的改善嘛 |
| 00:56:57,180 | 00:57:00,180 | 那現在我們提到他這個動漲28年 |
| 00:57:00,180 | 00:57:04,180 | 提高到這樣子多了1,300塊 |
| 00:57:06,180 | 00:57:09,180 | 那你覺得還有其他的方法處理嗎 |
| 00:57:09,180 | 00:57:10,180 | 這樣夠嗎 |
| 00:57:10,180 | 00:57:12,180 | 跟委員報告絕對不夠 |
| 00:57:12,180 | 00:57:14,180 | 絕對不夠嘛對不對 |
| 00:57:14,180 | 00:57:19,180 | 我們當初是希望能夠調到1萬5到2萬 |
| 00:57:19,180 | 00:57:21,180 | 是啊差這麼遠 |
| 00:57:21,180 | 00:57:24,180 | 可是我們也要感謝他們已經提高了 |
| 00:57:25,180 | 00:57:29,180 | 那秘書長你預期明年多少人會報到 |
| 00:57:29,180 | 00:57:32,180 | 如果以這個費老實說新北地院 |
| 00:57:32,180 | 00:57:35,180 | 我們現在很努力 |
| 00:57:35,180 | 00:57:38,180 | 可是我相信報到率還是會在50 |
| 00:57:38,180 | 00:57:40,180 | 還是很慘嘛 |
| 00:57:40,180 | 00:57:42,180 | 那如果你不針對書記官稍微處理 |
| 00:57:42,180 | 00:57:44,180 | 如果就算調薪 |
| 00:57:44,180 | 00:57:45,180 | 調薪是大家一起調 |
| 00:57:45,180 | 00:57:46,180 | 你如果不針對書記官 |
| 00:57:46,180 | 00:57:48,180 | 他還是可以往別處去嘛 |
| 00:57:48,180 | 00:57:49,180 | 是是是 |
| 00:57:49,180 | 00:57:51,180 | 所以希望能夠支持調薪 |
| 00:57:51,180 | 00:57:52,180 | 所以最後這一張 |
| 00:57:52,180 | 00:57:55,180 | 這一張就是請市委首長代表 |
| 00:57:55,180 | 00:57:58,180 | 就是請你們一個月內來回覆我 |
| 00:57:58,180 | 00:57:59,180 | 當然其中還有兩桌 |
| 00:57:59,180 | 00:58:01,180 | 第一個我請任總 |
| 00:58:01,180 | 00:58:03,180 | 你還是要針對走員額啦 |
| 00:58:03,180 | 00:58:04,180 | 你進行檢討嘛 |
| 00:58:04,180 | 00:58:06,180 | 你好好想一想嘛 |
| 00:58:06,180 | 00:58:07,180 | 對不對 |
| 00:58:07,180 | 00:58:09,180 | 就是你要進行這個檢討 |
| 00:58:09,180 | 00:58:12,180 | 合理的配置我們都支持 |
| 00:58:12,180 | 00:58:15,180 | 另外剛剛委員提到的那個待遇的部分 |
| 00:58:15,180 | 00:58:19,180 | 其實我們在今年行政院7月2號有宣布 |
| 00:58:19,180 | 00:58:21,180 | 我們這次就是鼓勵基層 |
| 00:58:21,180 | 00:58:24,180 | 所以我們把那個專業太子用定額調整 |
| 00:58:24,180 | 00:58:26,180 | 所以書記官會再加2000 |
| 00:58:26,180 | 00:58:28,180 | 會再加2000 |
| 00:58:28,180 | 00:58:29,180 | 我知道會再加 |
| 00:58:29,180 | 00:58:31,180 | 會再疊加會到 |
| 00:58:31,180 | 00:58:35,180 | 從疊加的基礎上面會再加4% |
| 00:58:35,180 | 00:58:37,180 | 你加2000我們等著看報告令 |
| 00:58:37,180 | 00:58:41,180 | 會基層的會到9.98會再上去 |
| 00:58:41,180 | 00:58:42,180 | 我們等著看 |
| 00:58:42,180 | 00:58:43,180 | 但是我也請你檢討嘛 |
| 00:58:43,180 | 00:58:45,180 | 工作環境也是的確很重要 |
| 00:58:45,180 | 00:58:48,180 | 我們今年9月我們就會把院檢 |
| 00:58:48,180 | 00:58:50,180 | 跟警察機關調查機關 |
| 00:58:50,180 | 00:58:52,180 | 我們會把他都在一起 |
| 00:58:52,180 | 00:58:56,180 | 我們希望也提出一些可以協助的面 |
| 00:58:56,180 | 00:58:57,180 | 就是工作環境 |
| 00:58:57,180 | 00:58:59,180 | 我想其實在司法體系人都知道 |
| 00:58:59,180 | 00:59:03,180 | 那個行政的量跟他的工作方式 |
| 00:59:03,180 | 00:59:04,180 | 跟給他的工具等等 |
| 00:59:04,180 | 00:59:06,180 | 其實都一併要去處理 |
| 00:59:06,180 | 00:59:07,180 | 可能不是單一 |
| 00:59:07,180 | 00:59:09,180 | 不是單一一個月可以吧 |
| 00:59:09,180 | 00:59:11,180 | 就是請麻煩你給我一個書面檢討 |
| 00:59:11,180 | 00:59:12,180 | 我們會來協助 |
| 00:59:12,180 | 00:59:15,180 | 司法院這個部分是不是兩週研議一下 |
| 00:59:15,180 | 00:59:17,180 | 你覺得法官跟書記官的配比如何 |
| 00:59:17,180 | 00:59:20,180 | 比較能符合現在的業務量 |
| 00:59:20,180 | 00:59:21,180 | 請委員給我們一個月 |
| 00:59:21,180 | 00:59:22,180 | 我們可以自己去 |
| 00:59:22,180 | 00:59:23,180 | 要一個月可以 |
| 00:59:23,180 | 00:59:25,180 | 好 改一個月 |
| 00:59:25,180 | 00:59:26,180 | 法務部就是說 |
| 00:59:26,180 | 00:59:29,180 | 本次修法檢察官調整的員額是否足夠 |
| 00:59:29,180 | 00:59:31,180 | 也請法務部給我這資料 |
| 00:59:31,180 | 00:59:34,180 | 就誠實的告訴我你們覺得夠不夠 |
| 00:59:34,180 | 00:59:36,180 | 整體有案司法院法務部 |
| 00:59:36,180 | 00:59:37,180 | 跟人種的部分 |
| 00:59:37,180 | 00:59:41,180 | 書記官的紀錄費夠不夠 |
| 00:59:41,180 | 00:59:43,180 | 當然你剛剛講的另外一個數字 |
| 00:59:43,180 | 00:59:45,180 | 你這個怎麼提升 |
| 00:59:45,180 | 00:59:48,180 | 我還是回到這幾年大家關心的醫療界 |
| 00:59:48,180 | 00:59:49,180 | 對不對 大家跑了 |
| 00:59:49,180 | 00:59:50,180 | 護理師都不見了 |
| 00:59:50,180 | 00:59:51,180 | 病房都關了 |
| 00:59:51,180 | 00:59:53,180 | 我們從哪間講講事 |
| 00:59:53,180 | 00:59:54,180 | 就是薪資待遇 |
| 00:59:54,180 | 00:59:56,180 | 有尊嚴的工作環境 |
| 00:59:56,180 | 00:59:59,180 | 好 那就是請四位我等待你們資料 |
| 00:59:59,180 | 01:00:02,180 | 一週一個月內請給我書面的資料 |
| 01:00:02,180 | 01:00:05,180 | 好 謝謝 謝謝主席 |
| 01:00:05,180 | 01:00:07,180 | 是 謝謝陳昭臻委員 |
| 01:00:07,180 | 01:00:15,180 | 好 接下來我們有請吳宗憲委員發言 |
| 01:00:15,180 | 01:00:22,180 | 謝謝主席 我們麻煩法務部 |
| 01:00:22,180 | 01:00:25,180 | 好 先有請法務部 |
| 01:00:25,180 | 01:00:27,180 | 好 市長你好 |
| 01:00:27,180 | 01:00:29,180 | 我想今天我們審查法院組織法 |
| 01:00:29,180 | 01:00:32,180 | 這個部分市長跟法務部對我的提案 |
| 01:00:32,180 | 01:00:33,180 | 大致都是支持的 |
| 01:00:33,180 | 01:00:34,180 | 所以我很感謝 |
| 01:00:34,180 | 01:00:39,180 | 今天質詢我就不在法案上面浪費時間 |
| 01:00:39,180 | 01:00:42,180 | 那我就這個機會就最近大家全民比較在乎的 |
| 01:00:42,180 | 01:00:44,180 | 兩個事件請教法務部 |
| 01:00:44,180 | 01:00:47,180 | 第一個是警察登門就那個 |
| 01:00:47,180 | 01:00:50,180 | 由不得你這個影片製作人查水表 |
| 01:00:50,180 | 01:00:51,180 | 移送北檢 |
| 01:00:51,180 | 01:00:53,180 | 第二個是國營事業台糖 |
| 01:00:53,180 | 01:00:56,180 | 到底有沒有這個食安通報的義務 |
| 01:00:56,180 | 01:00:57,180 | 那進入質詢前 |
| 01:00:57,180 | 01:00:58,180 | 我想我先確認一件事 |
| 01:00:58,180 | 01:01:00,180 | 法務部裡面有法律師務司 |
| 01:01:00,180 | 01:01:02,180 | 官網寫得非常清楚 |
| 01:01:02,180 | 01:01:04,180 | 那市長我想這個 |
| 01:01:04,180 | 01:01:09,180 | 貴司他負責處理法規諮詢跟法律問題的處理 |
| 01:01:09,180 | 01:01:10,180 | 這個沒問題 |
| 01:01:10,180 | 01:01:11,180 | 官網就有 |
| 01:01:11,180 | 01:01:14,180 | 那所以我今天不是問個案的事實 |
| 01:01:14,180 | 01:01:16,180 | 也不會去干預任何偵查 |
| 01:01:16,180 | 01:01:19,180 | 我今天討論的是就法律原則既有解釋 |
| 01:01:19,180 | 01:01:20,180 | 最高法案的解釋 |
| 01:01:20,180 | 01:01:24,180 | 然後我來問一下法務部到底問題出在哪裡 |
| 01:01:24,180 | 01:01:25,180 | 那個今天我說 |
| 01:01:25,180 | 01:01:27,180 | 由不得你這個案子 |
| 01:01:27,180 | 01:01:30,180 | 其實警政署最近一直被問的一個問題 |
| 01:01:30,180 | 01:01:33,180 | 就是為什麼你查的超級快 |
| 01:01:33,180 | 01:01:35,180 | 那我今天想要問法務部 |
| 01:01:35,180 | 01:01:37,180 | 這個更根本的一個問題 |
| 01:01:37,180 | 01:01:38,180 | 就是這支影片 |
| 01:01:38,180 | 01:01:41,180 | 到底夠不夠成文書的定義 |
| 01:01:41,180 | 01:01:44,180 | 如果連這個定義都過不了的話 |
| 01:01:44,180 | 01:01:49,180 | 那更不要談說是偽造準文書或偽造私文書等等的 |
| 01:01:49,180 | 01:01:52,180 | 如果你連文書的構成要件都不符合 |
| 01:01:52,180 | 01:01:56,180 | 更不要說有後面可能產生的偽造文書的概念 |
| 01:01:56,180 | 01:01:58,180 | 好那我這次要講一個東西 |
| 01:01:58,180 | 01:02:01,180 | 就是警察這次直接鎖定特定人 |
| 01:02:01,180 | 01:02:02,180 | 跑到他們家去 |
| 01:02:02,180 | 01:02:03,180 | 他做了三件事 |
| 01:02:03,180 | 01:02:05,180 | 第一個確定是不是影片製作人 |
| 01:02:05,180 | 01:02:08,180 | 第二個要他考慮下架 |
| 01:02:08,180 | 01:02:10,180 | 第三個要他到案做筆錄 |
| 01:02:10,180 | 01:02:11,180 | 我想請問司長 |
| 01:02:11,180 | 01:02:14,180 | 警察跑到當事人家跟他講這些 |
| 01:02:14,180 | 01:02:15,180 | 這是屬於零檢嗎 |
| 01:02:15,180 | 01:02:18,180 | 我想那個委員所提的這個部分 |
| 01:02:18,180 | 01:02:21,180 | 是警察他在行使職權上的 |
| 01:02:21,180 | 01:02:23,180 | 不是零檢對不對 |
| 01:02:23,180 | 01:02:24,180 | 這個是不是零檢 |
| 01:02:24,180 | 01:02:25,180 | 我想警察他們會 |
| 01:02:26,180 | 01:02:27,180 | 沒關係我想那個那個 |
| 01:02:27,180 | 01:02:28,180 | 那個事長這個很簡單 |
| 01:02:28,180 | 01:02:30,180 | 不是零檢因為零檢是對不特定人 |
| 01:02:30,180 | 01:02:32,180 | 那我們今天已經知道這個人是誰 |
| 01:02:32,180 | 01:02:34,180 | 跑到他家這個應該不符合零檢的要件 |
| 01:02:34,180 | 01:02:37,180 | 我想這個這個應該是沒有沒有爭議 |
| 01:02:37,180 | 01:02:39,180 | 那我今天問題是 |
| 01:02:39,180 | 01:02:42,180 | 如果依照4-535號 |
| 01:02:42,180 | 01:02:45,180 | 我們對於不特定人在公眾場所警察對他零檢 |
| 01:02:45,180 | 01:02:49,180 | 都必須告知事由出示證件表明身份 |
| 01:02:49,180 | 01:02:51,180 | 都有這麼嚴格的要求 |
| 01:02:51,180 | 01:02:55,180 | 所以我們對於比零檢強度更高的 |
| 01:02:55,180 | 01:02:56,180 | 跑到人家家去 |
| 01:02:56,180 | 01:03:01,180 | 但是卻沒有連這個最基本零檢該進的義務 |
| 01:03:01,180 | 01:03:02,180 | 都沒有進到 |
| 01:03:02,180 | 01:03:04,180 | 甚至還要求他要下架 |
| 01:03:04,180 | 01:03:07,180 | 問他要不要下架或是要來做筆錄 |
| 01:03:07,180 | 01:03:09,180 | 我覺得這個是發生問題了 |
| 01:03:09,180 | 01:03:12,180 | 你今天做了一個侵害是比零檢更高 |
| 01:03:12,180 | 01:03:15,180 | 但是你自己所做到的卻比零檢 |
| 01:03:15,180 | 01:03:17,180 | 在市志上面要求的更低 |
| 01:03:17,180 | 01:03:19,180 | 那這個就有一個很大問題 |
| 01:03:19,180 | 01:03:20,180 | 好那今天 |
| 01:03:20,180 | 01:03:22,180 | 市長你剛剛講的這個警察 |
| 01:03:22,180 | 01:03:24,180 | 他依據他調查權去調查 |
| 01:03:24,180 | 01:03:25,180 | 市長講的沒錯 |
| 01:03:25,180 | 01:03:27,180 | 但是我今天不是在討論有沒有調查權 |
| 01:03:27,180 | 01:03:29,180 | 而是調查權的界限在哪裡 |
| 01:03:29,180 | 01:03:31,180 | 警察可不可以濫用調查權 |
| 01:03:31,180 | 01:03:33,180 | 我愛怎麼樣就怎麼樣 |
| 01:03:33,180 | 01:03:35,180 | 我愛去你家問你什麼 |
| 01:03:35,180 | 01:03:36,180 | 我就去你家問你什麼 |
| 01:03:36,180 | 01:03:37,180 | 我今天在講的是這個 |
| 01:03:37,180 | 01:03:42,180 | 我想市長我們以前還同地檢署的警察官同仁 |
| 01:03:42,180 | 01:03:45,180 | 所以我想我們的法律見解不會差太遠 |
| 01:03:45,180 | 01:03:48,180 | 就是這個東西其實警察是有問題的 |
| 01:03:48,180 | 01:03:50,180 | 你跑到人家家去做這些事情 |
| 01:03:50,180 | 01:03:52,180 | 我覺得我是會打一個問號 |
| 01:03:52,180 | 01:03:54,180 | 那市長我想請問一下 |
| 01:03:54,180 | 01:03:56,180 | 沒有報警察官指揮 |
| 01:03:56,180 | 01:03:59,180 | 沒有搜索票沒有拘票沒有通知書 |
| 01:03:59,180 | 01:04:02,180 | 直接叫跑到人家家說要做筆錄 |
| 01:04:02,180 | 01:04:04,180 | 還問他願不願意下架 |
| 01:04:04,180 | 01:04:08,180 | 你認為這個有沒有超出證據保全的範圍 |
| 01:04:08,180 | 01:04:11,180 | 我想那個警察他職權的行使 |
| 01:04:11,180 | 01:04:14,180 | 有警察他們有一定的那個SOP |
| 01:04:15,180 | 01:04:19,180 | 那在沒有這個尚未報警警察官指揮之前 |
| 01:04:19,180 | 01:04:22,180 | 警方他們都會依照他們職權行使的SOP來做 |
| 01:04:22,180 | 01:04:24,180 | 不是市長如果你是承辦警察官 |
| 01:04:24,180 | 01:04:26,180 | 你看到警察在你的案子這樣做 |
| 01:04:26,180 | 01:04:28,180 | 你會不會跟他說你不可以這樣做 |
| 01:04:28,180 | 01:04:33,180 | 那個就是這個案件現在已經報警北檢指揮了 |
| 01:04:33,180 | 01:04:35,180 | 不不不他當時沒有 |
| 01:04:35,180 | 01:04:39,180 | 如果你今天收到一個案子發現警察是這麼做 |
| 01:04:39,180 | 01:04:43,180 | 您是承辦警察官你會認同警察的這個做法嗎 |
| 01:04:43,180 | 01:04:46,180 | 因為這個案件我們當時並沒有在場 |
| 01:04:46,180 | 01:04:47,180 | 沒有看到全券 |
| 01:04:47,180 | 01:04:49,180 | 到底警方當時是用什麼 |
| 01:04:49,180 | 01:04:51,180 | 不是啦我沒有問個案 |
| 01:04:51,180 | 01:04:55,180 | 好啦市長我大概了解可能你也不方便回答這個問題 |
| 01:04:55,180 | 01:04:58,180 | 但我必須講一個我六我今天是承辦警察官 |
| 01:04:58,180 | 01:05:02,180 | 一個警察在沒有警察官指揮沒有搜索票沒有拘票 |
| 01:05:02,180 | 01:05:04,180 | 沒有任何通知書的情況下 |
| 01:05:04,180 | 01:05:06,180 | 就跑到人家家去做這些事情 |
| 01:05:06,180 | 01:05:10,180 | 基本上我想全國的司法官沒有人會接受這樣的做法 |
| 01:05:10,180 | 01:05:13,180 | 因為這樣就回到那種集權國家啦 |
| 01:05:13,180 | 01:05:15,180 | 警察愛到你家幹嘛就幹嘛 |
| 01:05:15,180 | 01:05:20,180 | 反正我就是一個比你高一等的權限嘛 |
| 01:05:20,180 | 01:05:23,180 | 我到你家幹什麼那你就等著害怕而已 |
| 01:05:23,180 | 01:05:25,180 | 我想這個不是我們願意看到 |
| 01:05:25,180 | 01:05:28,180 | 而且你看刑事訴訟法175條第四項 |
| 01:05:28,180 | 01:05:35,180 | 傳喚一般證人都還要求傳票至少要在到場期日前24小時就要送達 |
| 01:05:35,180 | 01:05:38,180 | 連刑事訴訟法對於證人都有這樣的保護 |
| 01:05:38,180 | 01:05:41,180 | 更何況今天也沒有人告他啊 |
| 01:05:41,180 | 01:05:43,180 | 也沒有任何犯罪事實出來啊 |
| 01:05:43,180 | 01:05:46,180 | 那他到底在刑事訴訟法裡面他的規類是什麼 |
| 01:05:46,180 | 01:05:48,180 | 我想他應該不是被告 |
| 01:05:48,180 | 01:05:50,180 | 那你竟然可以去做這個事情 |
| 01:05:50,180 | 01:05:53,180 | 我個人不認同啦否則刑事175條第四項 |
| 01:05:53,180 | 01:05:56,180 | 對於證人的這個規定也等於是虛設嘛 |
| 01:05:56,180 | 01:05:59,180 | 我愛怎麼樣我當警察愛怎麼樣 |
| 01:05:59,180 | 01:06:01,180 | 因為我一直在保護保障警察權益 |
| 01:06:01,180 | 01:06:05,180 | 但同樣的不能接受警察濫權做這個事情 |
| 01:06:05,180 | 01:06:12,180 | 因為我認為這個對於刑事訴訟法的程序正當性的保障其實是超過的啦 |
| 01:06:12,180 | 01:06:15,180 | 更何況說當時就一個老人家在家 |
| 01:06:15,180 | 01:06:18,180 | 那甚至他問警察問他說 |
| 01:06:18,180 | 01:06:20,180 | 是誰要我下架 |
| 01:06:20,180 | 01:06:22,180 | 有人提告嗎警察其實是答不出來 |
| 01:06:22,180 | 01:06:27,180 | 當場他連自由犯罪案遊也講不出來 |
| 01:06:27,180 | 01:06:29,180 | 他是後來才擠了五個法條出來 |
| 01:06:29,180 | 01:06:32,180 | 所以這個東西我覺得都不妥 |
| 01:06:32,180 | 01:06:34,180 | 你今天到人家家去執行公務 |
| 01:06:34,180 | 01:06:36,180 | 就你連他犯了什麼你都講不出來 |
| 01:06:36,180 | 01:06:38,180 | 其實這個是很離譜啦 |
| 01:06:38,180 | 01:06:41,180 | 所以簡單的講這個案子當初根本沒有理由 |
| 01:06:41,180 | 01:06:43,180 | 你就直接去查水表 |
| 01:06:43,180 | 01:06:45,180 | 我想很悲哀的事情 |
| 01:06:45,180 | 01:06:47,180 | 我學生時候我跟著林三田教授去 |
| 01:06:47,180 | 01:06:49,180 | 為了刑法100條上街頭 |
| 01:06:49,180 | 01:06:51,180 | 為了台灣人民的言論自由 |
| 01:06:51,180 | 01:06:53,180 | 為了讓那些思想犯能夠回到台灣 |
| 01:06:53,180 | 01:06:56,180 | 陪著林三田教授上街頭去抗爭 |
| 01:06:56,180 | 01:06:58,180 | 結果幾十年過去了 |
| 01:06:58,180 | 01:07:00,180 | 我們台灣越活越回去 |
| 01:07:00,180 | 01:07:03,180 | 所以這個事情我是覺得不能讓人忍受 |
| 01:07:03,180 | 01:07:05,180 | 自稱保障言論自由 |
| 01:07:05,180 | 01:07:08,180 | 自稱動不動都拿鄭南榮出來說嘴的人 |
| 01:07:08,180 | 01:07:12,180 | 但是連最基本人民的言論自由都保障不了 |
| 01:07:12,180 | 01:07:14,180 | 還可以拿出來這樣子講 |
| 01:07:14,180 | 01:07:15,180 | 我是不太能接受這樣 |
| 01:07:15,180 | 01:07:19,180 | 那跟我們當初學生的時候理想也差太遠 |
| 01:07:19,180 | 01:07:24,180 | 所以當把恐懼送到這些無辜人家的客廳 |
| 01:07:24,180 | 01:07:27,180 | 然後網友按一個發送箭之前 |
| 01:07:27,180 | 01:07:28,180 | 都要感到害怕 |
| 01:07:28,180 | 01:07:29,180 | 這個不對啦 |
| 01:07:29,180 | 01:07:30,180 | 這不叫做民主國家 |
| 01:07:30,180 | 01:07:32,180 | 已經走向極權國家了 |
| 01:07:32,180 | 01:07:34,180 | 而這個也沒有依法辦案 |
| 01:07:34,180 | 01:07:37,180 | 警察到現在他所作所為都是都有問題 |
| 01:07:37,180 | 01:07:38,180 | 沒有任何依據 |
| 01:07:38,180 | 01:07:40,180 | 那這個是國家的恐嚇 |
| 01:07:40,180 | 01:07:43,180 | 那有時候我就看到這個狀況 |
| 01:07:43,180 | 01:07:46,180 | 我就覺得最近包括上次什麼陳菊 |
| 01:07:46,180 | 01:07:47,180 | 走了嗎那句話 |
| 01:07:47,180 | 01:07:48,180 | 警察立刻火速上門 |
| 01:07:48,180 | 01:07:50,180 | 包括這一次的事情 |
| 01:07:50,180 | 01:07:54,180 | 對人民創作的影片警察火速敲門 |
| 01:07:54,180 | 01:07:56,180 | 但是人民真正害怕跟我 |
| 01:07:56,180 | 01:07:58,180 | 我痛恨的半死 |
| 01:07:58,180 | 01:08:01,180 | 讓我的爸老媽 |
| 01:08:01,180 | 01:08:04,180 | 讓我的小孩吃到這種致癌油的 |
| 01:08:04,180 | 01:08:07,180 | 這個事情政府拖了一個月卻給不出答案 |
| 01:08:07,180 | 01:08:09,180 | 但另外弄了一個Crucial的影片 |
| 01:08:09,180 | 01:08:11,180 | 我馬上到你家登門去查 |
| 01:08:11,180 | 01:08:12,180 | 這是很好笑 |
| 01:08:12,180 | 01:08:15,180 | 而且是很諷刺的一件事情 |
| 01:08:15,180 | 01:08:17,180 | 我們都吃很多致癌油 |
| 01:08:17,180 | 01:08:20,180 | 因為我們根本無從選擇 |
| 01:08:20,180 | 01:08:22,180 | 這麼多流到市面上 |
| 01:08:22,180 | 01:08:24,180 | 這才是讓我們氣憤的事情 |
| 01:08:24,180 | 01:08:26,180 | 那北檢這次分案 |
| 01:08:26,180 | 01:08:29,180 | 我是用刑法的準時文書 |
| 01:08:29,180 | 01:08:33,180 | 但是最高法院一路以來的見解 |
| 01:08:33,180 | 01:08:34,180 | 準時文書它必須要 |
| 01:08:34,180 | 01:08:37,180 | 第一個證明法律關係或社會活動事實 |
| 01:08:37,180 | 01:08:40,180 | 第二個要有明確的民意人 |
| 01:08:40,180 | 01:08:42,180 | 我就說我不想去討論個案 |
| 01:08:42,180 | 01:08:45,180 | 但是至少在這個個案並沒有講是誰 |
| 01:08:45,180 | 01:08:48,180 | 所以欠缺最高法院的民意人的這個概念 |
| 01:08:48,180 | 01:08:50,180 | 第二個它陳述的是一個 |
| 01:08:50,180 | 01:08:52,180 | 事實以及科學上面的依據 |
| 01:08:52,180 | 01:08:55,180 | 這跟法律關係或社會的犯罪活動事實 |
| 01:08:55,180 | 01:08:57,180 | 也沒有關聯性 |
| 01:08:57,180 | 01:08:58,180 | 所以這是讓我很難過說 |
| 01:08:58,180 | 01:09:04,180 | 為什麼今天國家公器會用到今天這個樣子 |
| 01:09:04,180 | 01:09:08,180 | 所以我想如果今天開場 |
| 01:09:08,180 | 01:09:14,180 | 自稱虛構的政治諷刺的東西 |
| 01:09:14,180 | 01:09:16,180 | 都可以扣上為照文書 |
| 01:09:16,180 | 01:09:19,180 | 那我們國內非常多第二次創作Crucial的 |
| 01:09:19,180 | 01:09:21,180 | 這些年輕人都完蛋了 |
| 01:09:21,180 | 01:09:23,180 | 都可能要被抓去關 |
| 01:09:23,180 | 01:09:26,180 | 然後警政組上次報告還提到說 |
| 01:09:26,180 | 01:09:29,180 | 誹謗罪這是告訴哪一論之罪 |
| 01:09:29,180 | 01:09:31,180 | 告訴哪一論之罪沒有人告 |
| 01:09:31,180 | 01:09:32,180 | 那請問一下市長 |
| 01:09:32,180 | 01:09:36,180 | 北檢會不會傳喚賴總統來問他要不要提告 |
| 01:09:36,180 | 01:09:40,180 | 這個是北檢他依法偵查個案的一個職權行使 |
| 01:09:40,180 | 01:09:41,180 | 我們都予以充受 |
| 01:09:41,180 | 01:09:44,180 | 好謝謝那市長我想我大概也猜到市長會這麼說 |
| 01:09:44,180 | 01:09:47,180 | 所以今天我要講的重點就在這個地方 |
| 01:09:47,180 | 01:09:49,180 | 北檢會不會傳總統我們不知道 |
| 01:09:49,180 | 01:09:51,180 | 但是告訴全能就是總統 |
| 01:09:51,180 | 01:09:52,180 | 我也不知道他要不要提告 |
| 01:09:52,180 | 01:09:55,180 | 一個沒有人提告一個找不到犯罪事實的東西 |
| 01:09:55,180 | 01:09:58,180 | 就警察去上門去做這個事情 |
| 01:09:58,180 | 01:10:01,180 | 最近有很多自稱是法律人法律專家 |
| 01:10:01,180 | 01:10:03,180 | 或是有律師資格 |
| 01:10:03,180 | 01:10:06,180 | 但是說的一堆唯心之論嘛 |
| 01:10:06,180 | 01:10:09,180 | 如果說譬如說有人就自稱是律師 |
| 01:10:09,180 | 01:10:12,180 | 在網路上面今天用總統的聲音這樣可以嗎 |
| 01:10:12,180 | 01:10:14,180 | 這個為什麼沒有構成犯罪 |
| 01:10:14,180 | 01:10:17,180 | 事實上在我國就沒有構成犯罪 |
| 01:10:17,180 | 01:10:20,180 | 今天必須要是你用誰的聲音告訴大家 |
| 01:10:20,180 | 01:10:24,180 | 我是這個人而且從事社會的犯罪活動 |
| 01:10:24,180 | 01:10:27,180 | 這兩個要件加起來才會構成犯罪 |
| 01:10:27,180 | 01:10:31,180 | 並不是說我今天用AI去生成了某一個聲音 |
| 01:10:31,180 | 01:10:36,180 | 去講一個社會事實或者是一個科學上的依據 |
| 01:10:36,180 | 01:10:37,180 | 那就構成犯罪 |
| 01:10:37,180 | 01:10:38,180 | 兩個東西完全不一樣 |
| 01:10:38,180 | 01:10:40,180 | 但是有非常多自稱法律人 |
| 01:10:40,180 | 01:10:42,180 | 完全跳脫這個法律規定 |
| 01:10:42,180 | 01:10:46,180 | 就在位以披著法律專業人的這個東西來亂帶風向 |
| 01:10:46,180 | 01:10:47,180 | 這我不太能接受 |
| 01:10:47,180 | 01:10:50,180 | 如果今天這個聲音跟某一個人相像 |
| 01:10:50,180 | 01:10:51,180 | 就會構成犯罪 |
| 01:10:51,180 | 01:10:53,180 | 那我每一個AI生成的聲音 |
| 01:10:53,180 | 01:10:56,180 | 我必須去查跟這個地球上83億人口 |
| 01:10:56,180 | 01:10:57,180 | 有沒有跟誰像 |
| 01:10:57,180 | 01:10:59,180 | 如果跟誰像就會構成犯罪 |
| 01:10:59,180 | 01:11:01,180 | 那我必須去查跟這83億人口 |
| 01:11:01,180 | 01:11:02,180 | 有沒有跟任何一個人像 |
| 01:11:02,180 | 01:11:04,180 | 萬一跟誰像那完蛋 |
| 01:11:04,180 | 01:11:05,180 | 我就構成犯罪 |
| 01:11:05,180 | 01:11:07,180 | 所以這個是很瘋狂的事 |
| 01:11:07,180 | 01:11:09,180 | 所以我國的法律規定很清楚 |
| 01:11:09,180 | 01:11:11,180 | 民意人、社會的犯罪活動 |
| 01:11:11,180 | 01:11:14,180 | 兩個加起來才會構成一個犯罪事實 |
| 01:11:14,180 | 01:11:17,180 | 所以過往有人用那個我覺得那個什麼 |
| 01:11:17,180 | 01:11:21,180 | 譬如說股市操盤的名師謝金河等等的 |
| 01:11:21,180 | 01:11:22,180 | 用他們的名義 |
| 01:11:22,180 | 01:11:25,180 | 用他們的聲音來叫大家去投資 |
| 01:11:25,180 | 01:11:27,180 | 那這個就會構成犯罪 |
| 01:11:27,180 | 01:11:29,180 | 這個絕對沒問題我也支持 |
| 01:11:29,180 | 01:11:32,180 | 但是今天在本案我真的是看不到 |
| 01:11:32,180 | 01:11:34,180 | 所以我必須要跟大家報告 |
| 01:11:34,180 | 01:11:37,180 | 我覺得這實際上充斥很多自稱的法律人 |
| 01:11:37,180 | 01:11:39,180 | 在那邊帶假的法律見解 |
| 01:11:39,180 | 01:11:40,180 | 在亂帶風向 |
| 01:11:40,180 | 01:11:45,180 | 這其實我是真的不太能接受 |
| 01:11:45,180 | 01:11:50,180 | 更何況你看過去其實12年前 |
| 01:11:50,180 | 01:11:51,180 | 那個蔡英文跟賴清德 |
| 01:11:51,180 | 01:11:53,180 | 他有一個假的影片對談 |
| 01:11:53,180 | 01:11:55,180 | 要大家投資加密貨幣 |
| 01:11:55,180 | 01:11:56,180 | 那個東西我覺得 |
| 01:11:56,180 | 01:12:01,180 | 這個才是造成民眾財產損害的這個身位案件 |
| 01:12:01,180 | 01:12:02,180 | 這個才是 |
| 01:12:02,180 | 01:12:04,180 | 現在這一次的這個 |
| 01:12:04,180 | 01:12:05,180 | 有的我真的看不出來 |
| 01:12:05,180 | 01:12:06,180 | 第二個就是 |
| 01:12:06,180 | 01:12:07,180 | 第二個就是 |
| 01:12:07,180 | 01:12:10,180 | 高官假學歷偽造文書的那個告發 |
| 01:12:10,180 | 01:12:12,180 | 像之前114年6月 |
| 01:12:12,180 | 01:12:14,180 | 有律師告發駐英國公使 |
| 01:12:14,180 | 01:12:16,180 | 那個江亞奇的這個案子 |
| 01:12:16,180 | 01:12:18,180 | 其實到現在查了一年多 |
| 01:12:18,180 | 01:12:19,180 | 也都沒有進度 |
| 01:12:19,180 | 01:12:22,180 | 像那個東西才是真正構成犯罪 |
| 01:12:22,180 | 01:12:25,180 | 但我看到的國家機器都沒有真正再查 |
| 01:12:25,180 | 01:12:27,180 | 反而是這一次的這個影片 |
| 01:12:27,180 | 01:12:31,180 | 我看到的是動員了刑事局的鑑識工具 |
| 01:12:31,180 | 01:12:32,180 | 內政部的專案報告 |
| 01:12:32,180 | 01:12:34,180 | 北檢的他之案 |
| 01:12:34,180 | 01:12:36,180 | 一整週的政治攻防 |
| 01:12:36,180 | 01:12:37,180 | 這次卻這麼積極 |
| 01:12:37,180 | 01:12:38,180 | 但是呢 |
| 01:12:38,180 | 01:12:40,180 | 我們面對自來有的問題到現在一個多月了 |
| 01:12:40,180 | 01:12:43,180 | 還沒有人告訴我鑑定的期程在哪裡 |
| 01:12:43,180 | 01:12:45,180 | 所以這是我還是沒有辦法 |
| 01:12:45,180 | 01:12:47,180 | 接受的一個事情 |
| 01:12:47,180 | 01:12:48,180 | 跟委員報相關的案件 |
| 01:12:48,180 | 01:12:50,180 | 其實檢察官都有在偵辦 |
| 01:12:50,180 | 01:12:51,180 | 不管是毒油案件 |
| 01:12:51,180 | 01:12:53,180 | 或者是剛剛您提到的這個個案 |
| 01:12:53,180 | 01:12:55,180 | 其實檢察官都有在做偵辦 |
| 01:12:55,180 | 01:12:56,180 | 那告訴哪一論罪 |
| 01:12:56,180 | 01:12:58,180 | 他的告訴只是一個程序的發動權 |
| 01:12:58,180 | 01:13:00,180 | 但是如果有犯罪嫌疑的話 |
| 01:13:00,180 | 01:13:02,180 | 檢察官也是要來處理的 |
| 01:13:02,180 | 01:13:03,180 | 就像偷拍案件的話 |
| 01:13:03,180 | 01:13:05,180 | 其實還沒有找到被害人提出告訴之前 |
| 01:13:05,180 | 01:13:07,180 | 檢察官也必須要先去偵辦 |
| 01:13:07,180 | 01:13:08,180 | 這個沒有問題 |
| 01:13:08,180 | 01:13:09,180 | 它就訴追條件的一種嘛 |
| 01:13:09,180 | 01:13:11,180 | 能不能起訴嘛 |
| 01:13:11,180 | 01:13:13,180 | 但是我剛剛從頭到尾的論述是 |
| 01:13:13,180 | 01:13:17,180 | 警察的發動完全不對 |
| 01:13:17,180 | 01:13:20,180 | 警察沒有拘票 搜索票 |
| 01:13:20,180 | 01:13:22,180 | 沒有檢察官的指揮 沒有通知書 |
| 01:13:22,180 | 01:13:24,180 | 跑到你家去叫你做這些事情 |
| 01:13:24,180 | 01:13:26,180 | 我想正節點在這裡 |
| 01:13:26,180 | 01:13:28,180 | 而不是後面訴追條件有沒有完備 |
| 01:13:28,180 | 01:13:30,180 | 我想這邊跟你說明一下 |
| 01:13:30,180 | 01:13:34,180 | 後面我會給你一時間到了 |
| 01:13:34,180 | 01:13:36,180 | 我想我還是跟你講一個 |
| 01:13:36,180 | 01:13:38,180 | 台唐的部分 |
| 01:13:38,180 | 01:13:40,180 | 因為您是法律事務司 |
| 01:13:40,180 | 01:13:42,180 | 也是行政院裡面的法律顧問 |
| 01:13:42,180 | 01:13:44,180 | 不是法律事務司 |
| 01:13:44,180 | 01:13:46,180 | 是法律事務司 不好意思 |
| 01:13:46,180 | 01:13:48,180 | 那個法律的顧問 |
| 01:13:48,180 | 01:13:50,180 | 也是行政院有什麼問題 |
| 01:13:50,180 | 01:13:52,180 | 一定也是請教你們 |
| 01:13:52,180 | 01:13:54,180 | 但是我要講的就是說 |
| 01:13:54,180 | 01:13:56,180 | 因為我們目前我們的部長 |
| 01:13:56,180 | 01:13:58,180 | 一直出來說 |
| 01:13:58,180 | 01:14:02,180 | 原料不是食品 |
| 01:14:02,180 | 01:14:04,180 | 所以他沒有通報的義務 |
| 01:14:04,180 | 01:14:06,180 | 就是講到台唐的部分 |
| 01:14:06,180 | 01:14:08,180 | 但是我一直覺得很奇怪 |
| 01:14:08,180 | 01:14:10,180 | 因為我們食品安全衛生法第三條第一款 |
| 01:14:10,180 | 01:14:12,180 | 它的食品的定義就是包括 |
| 01:14:12,180 | 01:14:14,180 | 提供人飲食 |
| 01:14:14,180 | 01:14:16,180 | 用作加工調理食品 |
| 01:14:16,180 | 01:14:18,180 | 之物品獲取原料 |
| 01:14:18,180 | 01:14:20,180 | 那我不懂 |
| 01:14:20,180 | 01:14:22,180 | 部長難道沒有看到食品安全衛生法 |
| 01:14:22,180 | 01:14:24,180 | 第三條第一款的規定嗎 |
| 01:14:24,180 | 01:14:26,180 | 我搞不懂 所以這部分可能要麻煩 |
| 01:14:26,180 | 01:14:28,180 | 因為您是法律專家 |
| 01:14:28,180 | 01:14:30,180 | 可不可以翻一下法條給行政院的長官看一下 |
| 01:14:30,180 | 01:14:34,180 | 所以原料它本身就適應 |
| 01:14:34,180 | 01:14:36,180 | 食管法的定義的食品的內容 |
| 01:14:36,180 | 01:14:38,180 | 我不知道為什麼可以把 |
| 01:14:38,180 | 01:14:40,180 | 食品跟原料做這樣子的區分 |
| 01:14:40,180 | 01:14:42,180 | 是不是只是為了幫特定能講講話嗎 |
| 01:14:42,180 | 01:14:44,180 | 食安是全民的問題 |
| 01:14:44,180 | 01:14:46,180 | 那同條第七款 |
| 01:14:46,180 | 01:14:48,180 | 它對食品業者的定義 |
| 01:14:48,180 | 01:14:50,180 | 還有第七條第五項 |
| 01:14:50,180 | 01:14:52,180 | 也都講得很清楚 |
| 01:14:52,180 | 01:14:54,180 | 都有說有這些問題的時候 |
| 01:14:54,180 | 01:14:56,180 | 就要通報直轄市還有縣市的主管機關 |
| 01:14:56,180 | 01:14:58,180 | 所以這個本來 |
| 01:14:58,180 | 01:15:00,180 | 你就沒有去分什麼 |
| 01:15:00,180 | 01:15:02,180 | 食品跟原料 |
| 01:15:02,180 | 01:15:04,180 | 然後一個需要通報 |
| 01:15:04,180 | 01:15:06,180 | 另外一個就沒有通報義務 |
| 01:15:06,180 | 01:15:08,180 | 這個我沒有辦法理解 |
| 01:15:08,180 | 01:15:10,180 | 然後像我們的老同事 |
| 01:15:10,180 | 01:15:12,180 | 陳宏達主任 |
| 01:15:12,180 | 01:15:14,180 | 其實他講的那個 |
| 01:15:14,180 | 01:15:16,180 | 他就說 |
| 01:15:16,180 | 01:15:18,180 | 通報是法律明定義的義務 |
| 01:15:18,180 | 01:15:20,180 | 不是行政機關的恩惠 |
| 01:15:20,180 | 01:15:22,180 | 所以他也認為說 |
| 01:15:22,180 | 01:15:24,180 | 這個衛福部的這個說法 |
| 01:15:24,180 | 01:15:26,180 | 其實他也沒有辦法接受 |
| 01:15:26,180 | 01:15:28,180 | 更何況食安法寫的是有 |
| 01:15:28,180 | 01:15:30,180 | 危害衛生安全之虞 |
| 01:15:30,180 | 01:15:32,180 | 他不是說危害已完全證實 |
| 01:15:32,180 | 01:15:34,180 | 他不是一個食害犯 |
| 01:15:34,180 | 01:15:36,180 | 那我的老師啊那個台大公會的 |
| 01:15:36,180 | 01:15:38,180 | 江常維教授也說 |
| 01:15:38,180 | 01:15:40,180 | 他說如果台大沒有法定通報義務的話 |
| 01:15:40,180 | 01:15:42,180 | 原料超標不用通報的話 |
| 01:15:42,180 | 01:15:44,180 | 他等於是把我國的食安 |
| 01:15:44,180 | 01:15:46,180 | 開了一個致命的大 |
| 01:15:46,180 | 01:15:48,180 | 後門 |
| 01:15:48,180 | 01:15:50,180 | 我們以後的食安都完蛋了 |
| 01:15:50,180 | 01:15:52,180 | 所以這個是 |
| 01:15:52,180 | 01:15:54,180 | 您必須要跟 |
| 01:15:54,180 | 01:15:56,180 | 行政院那邊或跟衛福部長 |
| 01:15:56,180 | 01:15:58,180 | 跟他說明一下 |
| 01:15:58,180 | 01:16:00,180 | 食安法不是這樣規定的 |
| 01:16:00,180 | 01:16:02,180 | 那跟委員報告您剛提到 |
| 01:16:02,180 | 01:16:04,180 | 那兩個法條在第三條裡面 |
| 01:16:04,180 | 01:16:06,180 | 他規範的是食品 |
| 01:16:06,180 | 01:16:08,180 | 在第七條裡面他規範的是產品 |
| 01:16:08,180 | 01:16:10,180 | 那兩者他的規範這個標的 |
| 01:16:10,180 | 01:16:12,180 | 是不是一樣這個是要由 |
| 01:16:12,180 | 01:16:14,180 | 衛福部他們來做一個說明 |
| 01:16:14,180 | 01:16:16,180 | 好這個不是 |
| 01:16:16,180 | 01:16:18,180 | 麻煩你們跟他談法 |
| 01:16:18,180 | 01:16:20,180 | 我跟你講您剛講的是法律 |
| 01:16:20,180 | 01:16:22,180 | 衛福部一三年食品業者 |
| 01:16:22,180 | 01:16:24,180 | 自主管理說明會那邊就有提到 |
| 01:16:24,180 | 01:16:26,180 | 針對原料異常應 |
| 01:16:26,180 | 01:16:28,180 | 主動通報113年 |
| 01:16:28,180 | 01:16:30,180 | 蘇丹紅事件的時候行政院會議幾乎也講 |
| 01:16:30,180 | 01:16:32,180 | 原料異常異常應主動通報 |
| 01:16:32,180 | 01:16:34,180 | 這也都行政院的啊 |
| 01:16:34,180 | 01:16:36,180 | 我剛第一個講第一個範疇 |
| 01:16:36,180 | 01:16:38,180 | 是法律第二個範疇是行政院 |
| 01:16:38,180 | 01:16:40,180 | 自己講的所以不管是 |
| 01:16:40,180 | 01:16:42,180 | 食安法不管 |
| 01:16:42,180 | 01:16:44,180 | 食安法第七條第五項或是 |
| 01:16:44,180 | 01:16:46,180 | 一三年一四年的官方 |
| 01:16:46,180 | 01:16:48,180 | 解釋都包含到原料 |
| 01:16:48,180 | 01:16:50,180 | 那我不知道為什麼115年8月 |
| 01:16:50,180 | 01:16:52,180 | 以後碰到國營事業的台糖 |
| 01:16:52,180 | 01:16:54,180 | 就變不包含原料所以 |
| 01:16:54,180 | 01:16:56,180 | 變的不是法律啦是人 |
| 01:16:56,180 | 01:16:58,180 | 變了啦所以這個部分我 |
| 01:16:58,180 | 01:17:00,180 | 說真的這個真的是 |
| 01:17:00,180 | 01:17:02,180 | 沒辦法接受我說好最後 |
| 01:17:02,180 | 01:17:04,180 | 30秒不好意思我今天 |
| 01:17:04,180 | 01:17:06,180 | 質詢的兩件事情其實講的都是 |
| 01:17:06,180 | 01:17:08,180 | 同一句話由不得你 |
| 01:17:08,180 | 01:17:10,180 | 這個案子是小題大作 |
| 01:17:10,180 | 01:17:12,180 | 先射箭再劃吧 |
| 01:17:12,180 | 01:17:14,180 | 台糖自由案是大事 |
| 01:17:14,180 | 01:17:16,180 | 自創法條幫高官 |
| 01:17:16,180 | 01:17:18,180 | 護航所以 |
| 01:17:18,180 | 01:17:20,180 | 同一個政府同一個法律 |
| 01:17:20,180 | 01:17:22,180 | 一邊查的比誰都快 |
| 01:17:22,180 | 01:17:24,180 | 一邊拖的比誰都慢我看到的是 |
| 01:17:24,180 | 01:17:26,180 | 這樣然後 |
| 01:17:26,180 | 01:17:28,180 | 這個一個本篇 |
| 01:17:28,180 | 01:17:30,180 | 的動畫影片用了 |
| 01:17:30,180 | 01:17:32,180 | 刑事局鑑識公據內政部 |
| 01:17:32,180 | 01:17:34,180 | 專案報告北檢他之案 |
| 01:17:34,180 | 01:17:36,180 | 然後真正查自由案的 |
| 01:17:36,180 | 01:17:38,180 | 期程我說真的到現在都 |
| 01:17:38,180 | 01:17:40,180 | 看不到所以連這個 |
| 01:17:40,180 | 01:17:42,180 | 到最後連跟台糖 |
| 01:17:42,180 | 01:17:44,180 | 台糖有關的這個所謂的 |
| 01:17:44,180 | 01:17:46,180 | 食品的原料的解釋都變成 |
| 01:17:46,180 | 01:17:48,180 | 是發現有財物也沒有 |
| 01:17:48,180 | 01:17:50,180 | 通報義務我說這不可思議 |
| 01:17:50,180 | 01:17:52,180 | 啦那個 |
| 01:17:52,180 | 01:17:54,180 | 市長就跟市長報告 |
| 01:17:54,180 | 01:17:56,180 | 因為我們以前是同事嘛 |
| 01:17:56,180 | 01:17:58,180 | 我還是一個那個認想法 |
| 01:17:58,180 | 01:18:00,180 | 啦 |
| 01:18:00,180 | 01:18:02,180 | 標準不應該變SOP也不 |
| 01:18:02,180 | 01:18:04,180 | 應該變還有一個就是 |
| 01:18:04,180 | 01:18:06,180 | 讀書人要有讀書人的 |
| 01:18:06,180 | 01:18:08,180 | 風骨我希望全國的政務官 |
| 01:18:08,180 | 01:18:10,180 | 都能夠秉持這個觀念讀 |
| 01:18:10,180 | 01:18:12,180 | 書人要有讀書人的風骨 |
| 01:18:12,180 | 01:18:14,180 | 謝謝 |
| 01:18:14,180 | 01:18:16,180 | 好謝謝吳委員 |
| 01:18:18,180 | 01:18:20,180 | 好那接下來我們有請張雅玲 |
| 01:18:20,180 | 01:18:22,180 | 委員發言 |
| 01:18:28,180 | 01:18:30,180 | 謝謝主席我們有請檢察 |
| 01:18:30,180 | 01:18:32,180 | 司長好有請 |
| 01:18:32,180 | 01:18:34,180 | 檢察司長 |
| 01:18:34,180 | 01:18:36,180 | 其實我本來是沒有要問你的 |
| 01:18:36,180 | 01:18:38,180 | 啦只是我剛剛下面聽了說我 |
| 01:18:38,180 | 01:18:40,180 | 真的聽的有點無沙沙我希望你可以 |
| 01:18:40,180 | 01:18:42,180 | 來做多點說明啦好因為剛剛從 |
| 01:18:42,180 | 01:18:44,180 | 吳宗憲委員的資訊裡面聽起來好像 |
| 01:18:44,180 | 01:18:46,180 | 是有特別喜好 |
| 01:18:46,180 | 01:18:48,180 | 針對性辦案的問題 |
| 01:18:48,180 | 01:18:50,180 | 啦那我想要針對 |
| 01:18:50,180 | 01:18:52,180 | 程序上面來請司長再 |
| 01:18:52,180 | 01:18:54,180 | 多做說明就是說 |
| 01:18:54,180 | 01:18:56,180 | 由不得你這件事情呢 |
| 01:18:56,180 | 01:18:58,180 | 他是涉及了身為的部分嘛對不對 |
| 01:18:58,180 | 01:19:00,180 | 那其實我們現在因為包含 |
| 01:19:00,180 | 01:19:02,180 | 在今年其實我收到了很多展示 |
| 01:19:02,180 | 01:19:04,180 | 基金會這邊告訴我的一些 |
| 01:19:04,180 | 01:19:06,180 | 兒少性影像被用AI |
| 01:19:06,180 | 01:19:08,180 | 身為的這個技術 |
| 01:19:08,180 | 01:19:10,180 | 來去操作那使得一些部分 |
| 01:19:10,180 | 01:19:12,180 | 的兒少受害 |
| 01:19:12,180 | 01:19:14,180 | 那我想問一下當我們遇到這樣子的一個案件 |
| 01:19:14,180 | 01:19:16,180 | 的時候我們的偵查程序 |
| 01:19:16,180 | 01:19:18,180 | 跟兒少我說兒少的程序 |
| 01:19:18,180 | 01:19:20,180 | 跟這個由不得你的程序 |
| 01:19:20,180 | 01:19:22,180 | 有不一樣嗎其實都是 |
| 01:19:22,180 | 01:19:24,180 | 一樣的只要有發現這樣子 |
| 01:19:24,180 | 01:19:26,180 | 可能性身為的影片的話 |
| 01:19:26,180 | 01:19:28,180 | 那警方其實他們就可以依照 |
| 01:19:28,180 | 01:19:30,180 | 他們的職權開始來進行相關 |
| 01:19:30,180 | 01:19:32,180 | 的調查那如果有必要的話警察 |
| 01:19:32,180 | 01:19:34,180 | 就是會報請檢察官來指揮 |
| 01:19:34,180 | 01:19:36,180 | 對所以就是說當今天 |
| 01:19:36,180 | 01:19:38,180 | 有人可能像我們可以檢舉 |
| 01:19:38,180 | 01:19:40,180 | 可能兒少的他也可以自己檢舉 |
| 01:19:40,180 | 01:19:42,180 | 別人幫他檢舉只要你們收到了 |
| 01:19:42,180 | 01:19:44,180 | 這樣子的舉報 |
| 01:19:44,180 | 01:19:46,180 | 通報通報的話就會 |
| 01:19:46,180 | 01:19:48,180 | 開始啟動一系列的SOP |
| 01:19:48,180 | 01:19:50,180 | 對不對因為剛剛吳宗憲 |
| 01:19:50,180 | 01:19:52,180 | 委員一直在強調就是說希望 |
| 01:19:52,180 | 01:19:54,180 | 司長您不要改變你的SOP |
| 01:19:54,180 | 01:19:56,180 | 要有風骨那我想 |
| 01:19:56,180 | 01:19:58,180 | 確認一下所以針對SOP的部分 |
| 01:19:58,180 | 01:20:00,180 | 是完全跟一致的沒有 |
| 01:20:00,180 | 01:20:02,180 | 改變對嗎其實所有的案件的 |
| 01:20:02,180 | 01:20:04,180 | 證判程序都是一致的我相信 |
| 01:20:04,180 | 01:20:06,180 | 警察官跟警方都是 |
| 01:20:06,180 | 01:20:08,180 | 秉持著證據來做辦案的 |
| 01:20:08,180 | 01:20:10,180 | 好那我想再請教一下就是說 |
| 01:20:10,180 | 01:20:12,180 | 我們針對於這一些 |
| 01:20:12,180 | 01:20:14,180 | 剛剛講的那些 |
| 01:20:14,180 | 01:20:16,180 | 那個食安法 |
| 01:20:16,180 | 01:20:18,180 | 的這些認定上面 |
| 01:20:18,180 | 01:20:20,180 | 因為現在看起來檢察官 |
| 01:20:20,180 | 01:20:22,180 | 就是說吳宗憲委員以及 |
| 01:20:22,180 | 01:20:24,180 | 這個陳鴻達這個檢察官 |
| 01:20:24,180 | 01:20:26,180 | 他們對於這個法律的 |
| 01:20:26,180 | 01:20:28,180 | 解釋上面有不同的意見 |
| 01:20:28,180 | 01:20:30,180 | 那我想問一下在你們你認識這麼多 |
| 01:20:30,180 | 01:20:32,180 | 檢察官嗎大家對每一個法律的 |
| 01:20:32,180 | 01:20:34,180 | 解釋都是完全一致的嗎 |
| 01:20:34,180 | 01:20:36,180 | 我想法律的解釋空間 |
| 01:20:36,180 | 01:20:38,180 | 有時候因而他的法律條文 |
| 01:20:38,180 | 01:20:40,180 | 可能會讓大家在 |
| 01:20:40,180 | 01:20:42,180 | 解讀上面可能會有不一樣 |
| 01:20:42,180 | 01:20:44,180 | 那我們都尊重每一個人對法律的 |
| 01:20:44,180 | 01:20:46,180 | 解釋的一個空間那但是這個 |
| 01:20:46,180 | 01:20:48,180 | 部分其實主要還是要看主管 |
| 01:20:48,180 | 01:20:50,180 | 機關他對於這個法律是怎麼解釋的 |
| 01:20:50,180 | 01:20:52,180 | 對就是這個東西 |
| 01:20:52,180 | 01:20:54,180 | 到底是因為產品跟原料 |
| 01:20:54,180 | 01:20:56,180 | 跟食品是完全不 |
| 01:20:56,180 | 01:20:58,180 | 一樣的所以我想這個當然是有 |
| 01:20:58,180 | 01:21:00,180 | 討論跟釐清的空間 |
| 01:21:00,180 | 01:21:02,180 | 但是我這邊還是希望來幫檢察官 |
| 01:21:02,180 | 01:21:04,180 | 說話啦就是說即便我們 |
| 01:21:04,180 | 01:21:06,180 | 委員們人民們各自 |
| 01:21:06,180 | 01:21:08,180 | 有各自的喜好各自的觀點 |
| 01:21:08,180 | 01:21:10,180 | 但是因為最終我們應該還是不介入 |
| 01:21:10,180 | 01:21:12,180 | 司法的檢調的調查嘛 |
| 01:21:12,180 | 01:21:14,180 | 我們應該還是要尊重我們 |
| 01:21:14,180 | 01:21:16,180 | 檢察官自己的判斷 |
| 01:21:16,180 | 01:21:18,180 | 自己的程序上面 |
| 01:21:18,180 | 01:21:20,180 | 只要程序正義程序符合沒有問題 |
| 01:21:20,180 | 01:21:22,180 | 那我們就應該要尊重才對 |
| 01:21:22,180 | 01:21:24,180 | 而不是在這邊發表個人 |
| 01:21:24,180 | 01:21:26,180 | 的言論啦謝謝委員 |
| 01:21:26,180 | 01:21:28,180 | 謝謝那我接下來還是要回來請我們的 |
| 01:21:28,180 | 01:21:30,180 | 這個司法院秘書長 |
| 01:21:30,180 | 01:21:32,180 | 好請高秘書長 |
| 01:21:36,180 | 01:21:38,180 | 好秘書長你好就是說 |
| 01:21:38,180 | 01:21:40,180 | 其實我之前也是有去看一下我們 |
| 01:21:40,180 | 01:21:42,180 | 書記官目前的這個工作 |
| 01:21:42,180 | 01:21:44,180 | 環境然後也安排了一個考察 |
| 01:21:44,180 | 01:21:46,180 | 那我想這個這個是 |
| 01:21:46,180 | 01:21:48,180 | 我們從很多的新聞上面看到 |
| 01:21:48,180 | 01:21:50,180 | 我們書記官的一個工作困境上面 |
| 01:21:50,180 | 01:21:52,180 | 工作量非常非常的大電話接不完 |
| 01:21:52,180 | 01:21:54,180 | 然後薪資缺乏 |
| 01:21:54,180 | 01:21:56,180 | 競爭力質押誘因不足啊 |
| 01:21:56,180 | 01:21:58,180 | 這個網率也非常非常高那這當然也反映 |
| 01:21:58,180 | 01:22:00,180 | 在了我們的離職率 |
| 01:22:00,180 | 01:22:02,180 | 這是我看了一下 |
| 01:22:02,180 | 01:22:04,180 | 新北跟台北地院 |
| 01:22:04,180 | 01:22:06,180 | 我們一一二年 |
| 01:22:06,180 | 01:22:08,180 | 跟一一三年都算是勉強 |
| 01:22:08,180 | 01:22:10,180 | 維持差不多的水準 |
| 01:22:10,180 | 01:22:12,180 | 但是在一百一十四年 |
| 01:22:12,180 | 01:22:14,180 | 整個飆高了 |
| 01:22:14,180 | 01:22:16,180 | 都是兩倍所以是 |
| 01:22:16,180 | 01:22:18,180 | 非常的多那原因呢 |
| 01:22:18,180 | 01:22:20,180 | 我在揣測因為我看到一些相關的 |
| 01:22:20,180 | 01:22:22,180 | 新聞報導就是說 |
| 01:22:22,180 | 01:22:24,180 | 大家的這個工作量因為 |
| 01:22:24,180 | 01:22:26,180 | 詐騙案件的頻傳 |
| 01:22:26,180 | 01:22:28,180 | 所以造成大家的工作量大增 |
| 01:22:28,180 | 01:22:30,180 | 那不僅是離職率 |
| 01:22:30,180 | 01:22:32,180 | 包含我們的報到率 |
| 01:22:32,180 | 01:22:34,180 | 都非常的低 |
| 01:22:34,180 | 01:22:36,180 | 那我想要問一下就是說 |
| 01:22:36,180 | 01:22:38,180 | 我們現在看到了司法院呢 |
| 01:22:38,180 | 01:22:40,180 | 是要來去調整我們的這個 |
| 01:22:40,180 | 01:22:42,180 | 說法的部分讓三等書記官的職務 |
| 01:22:42,180 | 01:22:44,180 | 本身可以列到 |
| 01:22:44,180 | 01:22:46,180 | 鑑任第六職等 |
| 01:22:46,180 | 01:22:48,180 | 那具備鑑任任用資格的 |
| 01:22:48,180 | 01:22:50,180 | 限職人員未來也不一定要先 |
| 01:22:50,180 | 01:22:52,180 | 申到這個二等書記官 |
| 01:22:52,180 | 01:22:54,180 | 也可以繼續擔任三等書記官 |
| 01:22:54,180 | 01:22:56,180 | 或是改任改派這個 |
| 01:22:56,180 | 01:22:58,180 | 鑑任第六職等等的 |
| 01:22:58,180 | 01:23:00,180 | 但我想還是有一個根本的問題 |
| 01:23:00,180 | 01:23:02,180 | 想要來跟秘書長討論 |
| 01:23:02,180 | 01:23:04,180 | 因為我想今天這個修法我當然是給予肯定 |
| 01:23:04,180 | 01:23:06,180 | 也支持但我們還是要 |
| 01:23:06,180 | 01:23:08,180 | 來嚴肅的面對真正的原因 |
| 01:23:08,180 | 01:23:10,180 | 到底是什麼 |
| 01:23:10,180 | 01:23:12,180 | 到底能不能讓新人進得來 |
| 01:23:12,180 | 01:23:14,180 | 原來的人可以留下來 |
| 01:23:14,180 | 01:23:16,180 | 所以我想先確認喔 |
| 01:23:16,180 | 01:23:18,180 | 我們現在提出的一些解決辦法 |
| 01:23:18,180 | 01:23:20,180 | 這個當時都有去 |
| 01:23:20,180 | 01:23:22,180 | 去做一些研究嗎 |
| 01:23:22,180 | 01:23:24,180 | 就是如何增加他們 |
| 01:23:24,180 | 01:23:26,180 | 留下來的意願 |
| 01:23:26,180 | 01:23:28,180 | 為了 |
| 01:23:28,180 | 01:23:30,180 | 其實人員的增加 |
| 01:23:30,180 | 01:23:32,180 | 是一個方法之一 |
| 01:23:32,180 | 01:23:34,180 | 工作環境的改善 |
| 01:23:34,180 | 01:23:36,180 | 也是一個很重要的方法 |
| 01:23:36,180 | 01:23:38,180 | 所以為了我們都 |
| 01:23:38,180 | 01:23:40,180 | 很瞭解書記官的工作內容 |
| 01:23:40,180 | 01:23:42,180 | 可是我們不了解每一個細節 |
| 01:23:42,180 | 01:23:44,180 | 關於這個細節 |
| 01:23:44,180 | 01:23:46,180 | 我自己親自到 |
| 01:23:46,180 | 01:23:48,180 | 我們最繁忙的法院的書記官 |
| 01:23:48,180 | 01:23:50,180 | 請來逐 |
| 01:23:50,180 | 01:23:52,180 | 我們從收案開始到 |
| 01:23:52,180 | 01:23:54,180 | 送卷 |
| 01:23:54,180 | 01:23:56,180 | 逐一步一步的去討論 |
| 01:23:56,180 | 01:23:58,180 | 哪邊是可以監測 |
| 01:23:58,180 | 01:24:00,180 | 哪邊可以用 |
| 01:24:00,180 | 01:24:02,180 | 書記官來協助 |
| 01:24:02,180 | 01:24:04,180 | 哪邊可以用人員來協助 |
| 01:24:04,180 | 01:24:06,180 | 我們是全部走完一套的 |
| 01:24:06,180 | 01:24:08,180 | 所以這個是你們 |
| 01:24:08,180 | 01:24:10,180 | 走完一套的流程之後 |
| 01:24:10,180 | 01:24:12,180 | 你們就建議會認為說 |
| 01:24:12,180 | 01:24:14,180 | 因為第一線的書記官認為這個電話 |
| 01:24:14,180 | 01:24:16,180 | 很多所以你們才要建這個 |
| 01:24:16,180 | 01:24:18,180 | 沒有其實我跟委員報告 |
| 01:24:18,180 | 01:24:20,180 | 這個 |
| 01:24:20,180 | 01:24:22,180 | 所謂這個電話中心 |
| 01:24:22,180 | 01:24:24,180 | 是我們從很久很久以來 |
| 01:24:24,180 | 01:24:26,180 | 一直在討論這個 |
| 01:24:26,180 | 01:24:28,180 | 我相信所有書記官都會告訴委員 |
| 01:24:28,180 | 01:24:30,180 | 任何的電話對他們 |
| 01:24:30,180 | 01:24:32,180 | 都是一個很重的 |
| 01:24:32,180 | 01:24:34,180 | 負擔而且是 |
| 01:24:34,180 | 01:24:36,180 | 工作上的騷擾 |
| 01:24:36,180 | 01:24:38,180 | 所以這個部分如果能夠剔除的話 |
| 01:24:38,180 | 01:24:40,180 | 相信書記官 |
| 01:24:40,180 | 01:24:42,180 | 有辦法專心工作 |
| 01:24:42,180 | 01:24:44,180 | 這個是最重要的 |
| 01:24:44,180 | 01:24:46,180 | 既然這樣聽起來對書記官非常有幫助的話 |
| 01:24:46,180 | 01:24:48,180 | 那我們具體來說什麼時候 |
| 01:24:48,180 | 01:24:50,180 | 要成立那有多少的比例你們 |
| 01:24:50,180 | 01:24:52,180 | 現在判斷應該有測試 |
| 01:24:52,180 | 01:24:54,180 | 有多少的比例是真的是電話中心 |
| 01:24:54,180 | 01:24:56,180 | 可以直接處理掉 |
| 01:24:56,180 | 01:24:58,180 | 不然如果我們沒有做這個測試我們設了這個 |
| 01:24:58,180 | 01:25:00,180 | 電話中心還是有很多涉及 |
| 01:25:00,180 | 01:25:02,180 | 個資或是很多問題還是要回到書記官本身 |
| 01:25:02,180 | 01:25:04,180 | 那根本的問題就沒有解決 |
| 01:25:04,180 | 01:25:06,180 | 所以我想請牧師長具體的 |
| 01:25:06,180 | 01:25:08,180 | 回答我們預計什麼時候會成立 |
| 01:25:08,180 | 01:25:10,180 | 有多少比例可以 |
| 01:25:10,180 | 01:25:12,180 | 我們希望明年1月就能夠成立 |
| 01:25:12,180 | 01:25:14,180 | 我們希望今年12月就開始 |
| 01:25:14,180 | 01:25:16,180 | 測試其實跟委員報告 |
| 01:25:16,180 | 01:25:18,180 | 我們從今年1月我們司法行政 |
| 01:25:18,180 | 01:25:20,180 | 就收集 |
| 01:25:20,180 | 01:25:22,180 | 所有書記官 |
| 01:25:22,180 | 01:25:24,180 | 所被詢問的問題 |
| 01:25:24,180 | 01:25:26,180 | 我們收集了上千個問題 |
| 01:25:26,180 | 01:25:28,180 | 我們現在這些問題 |
| 01:25:28,180 | 01:25:30,180 | 怎麼去給他處理然後 |
| 01:25:30,180 | 01:25:32,180 | 由我們將來的電話中心 |
| 01:25:32,180 | 01:25:34,180 | 來統一回答我要跟委員 |
| 01:25:34,180 | 01:25:36,180 | 報告一個最重要的是 |
| 01:25:36,180 | 01:25:38,180 | 書記官所回答的 |
| 01:25:38,180 | 01:25:40,180 | 絕對只是程序問題 |
| 01:25:40,180 | 01:25:42,180 | 不可能回答任何事實問題 |
| 01:25:42,180 | 01:25:44,180 | 所以程序問題 |
| 01:25:44,180 | 01:25:46,180 | 其實在我們的辦案進行部上 |
| 01:25:46,180 | 01:25:48,180 | 是可以看到的 |
| 01:25:48,180 | 01:25:50,180 | 所以辦案進行部的公開 |
| 01:25:50,180 | 01:25:52,180 | 老實說法治先進的國家 |
| 01:25:52,180 | 01:25:54,180 | 是全部公開的 |
| 01:25:54,180 | 01:25:56,180 | 可是我們比較保守我們才公開 |
| 01:25:56,180 | 01:25:58,180 | 3比而已我們希望 |
| 01:25:58,180 | 01:26:00,180 | 其實3比就夠用了 |
| 01:26:00,180 | 01:26:02,180 | 我們將來的這個 |
| 01:26:02,180 | 01:26:04,180 | 電話中心 |
| 01:26:04,180 | 01:26:06,180 | 其他看到我們給他 |
| 01:26:06,180 | 01:26:08,180 | 老師那個問題化 |
| 01:26:08,180 | 01:26:10,180 | 幾乎書記官的 |
| 01:26:10,180 | 01:26:12,180 | 工作全部可以保守 |
| 01:26:12,180 | 01:26:14,180 | 好所以你的 |
| 01:26:14,180 | 01:26:16,180 | 你們現在的看法估計 |
| 01:26:16,180 | 01:26:18,180 | 是說有非常高的比例 |
| 01:26:18,180 | 01:26:20,180 | 是可以透過電話中心 |
| 01:26:20,180 | 01:26:22,180 | 那我希望我們在12月 |
| 01:26:22,180 | 01:26:24,180 | 測試的時候要給我一份 |
| 01:26:24,180 | 01:26:26,180 | 報告讓我知道說到底 |
| 01:26:26,180 | 01:26:28,180 | 有多少的這一個 |
| 01:26:28,180 | 01:26:30,180 | 電話 |
| 01:26:30,180 | 01:26:32,180 | 是真的轉到了電話中心 |
| 01:26:32,180 | 01:26:34,180 | 去處理而不是由書記官 |
| 01:26:34,180 | 01:26:36,180 | 我想這也是一個非常重要的 |
| 01:26:36,180 | 01:26:38,180 | KPI也是你們 |
| 01:26:38,180 | 01:26:40,180 | 跟委員報告我們一開始辦的時候 |
| 01:26:40,180 | 01:26:42,180 | 我們就不讓電話 |
| 01:26:42,180 | 01:26:44,180 | 進書記官了 |
| 01:26:44,180 | 01:26:46,180 | 我知道我知道但是問題是說有多少 |
| 01:26:46,180 | 01:26:48,180 | 最後還是要轉到書記官 |
| 01:26:48,180 | 01:26:50,180 | 所以我想這是一個很重要的評估 |
| 01:26:50,180 | 01:26:52,180 | 的KPI所以是不是第一個 |
| 01:26:52,180 | 01:26:54,180 | 現在可以先提供給我們一個你們 |
| 01:26:54,180 | 01:26:56,180 | 如何評估電話中心成效的 |
| 01:26:56,180 | 01:26:58,180 | KPI第二個是說當你們 |
| 01:26:58,180 | 01:27:00,180 | 測試完的時候12月底測試完了 |
| 01:27:00,180 | 01:27:02,180 | 給我一份報告是告訴我們 |
| 01:27:02,180 | 01:27:04,180 | 有多少東西真的是電話中心可以解決 |
| 01:27:04,180 | 01:27:06,180 | 那我想就是說 |
| 01:27:06,180 | 01:27:08,180 | 報告委員那明年的預算一定要 |
| 01:27:08,180 | 01:27:10,180 | 幫我們支持我們一定是支持 |
| 01:27:10,180 | 01:27:12,180 | 百分之百支持如果可以如期審查的話 |
| 01:27:12,180 | 01:27:14,180 | 而且如果有成效的話非常具體的話 |
| 01:27:14,180 | 01:27:16,180 | 我們一定是百分之百支持非常謝謝 |
| 01:27:16,180 | 01:27:18,180 | 我想就是說那我們現在 |
| 01:27:18,180 | 01:27:20,180 | 我們現在有看到 |
| 01:27:20,180 | 01:27:22,180 | 司法院希望增加書記官 |
| 01:27:22,180 | 01:27:24,180 | 要達到291 |
| 01:27:24,180 | 01:27:26,180 | 人但是我想還是要解決 |
| 01:27:26,180 | 01:27:28,180 | 報到率的問題是如果沒有 |
| 01:27:28,180 | 01:27:30,180 | 解決報到率真額也是沒有意義 |
| 01:27:30,180 | 01:27:32,180 | 好所以我想問的就是說我們要如何 |
| 01:27:32,180 | 01:27:34,180 | 解決這個報到率的問題呢 |
| 01:27:34,180 | 01:27:36,180 | 第一個工作環境一定要 |
| 01:27:36,180 | 01:27:38,180 | 改善我們現在因為 |
| 01:27:38,180 | 01:27:40,180 | 人員的限制我們現在 |
| 01:27:40,180 | 01:27:42,180 | 但是現在輿論上面都是說快逃啊 |
| 01:27:42,180 | 01:27:44,180 | 你要怎麼讓大家有感到說 |
| 01:27:44,180 | 01:27:46,180 | 環境真的有改善了一定要 |
| 01:27:46,180 | 01:27:48,180 | 跟委員報告書記 |
| 01:27:48,180 | 01:27:50,180 | 官現在的工作幾乎 |
| 01:27:50,180 | 01:27:52,180 | 是十年前的兩倍 |
| 01:27:52,180 | 01:27:54,180 | 兩倍工作裡面 |
| 01:27:54,180 | 01:27:56,180 | 我們要去發掘 |
| 01:27:56,180 | 01:27:58,180 | 哪些工作根本不是 |
| 01:27:58,180 | 01:28:00,180 | 他在訴訟法上必須要做的 |
| 01:28:00,180 | 01:28:02,180 | 我們要把這些工作 |
| 01:28:02,180 | 01:28:04,180 | 尾外因為我們沒有 |
| 01:28:04,180 | 01:28:06,180 | 原額了我們只能尾外來 |
| 01:28:06,180 | 01:28:08,180 | 處理但是你現在要增加原額 |
| 01:28:08,180 | 01:28:10,180 | 啊那我們當然希望增加 |
| 01:28:10,180 | 01:28:12,180 | 原額剛剛委員報告 |
| 01:28:12,180 | 01:28:14,180 | 我的問題就在沒有秘書長我的問題在於就是說 |
| 01:28:14,180 | 01:28:16,180 | 因為你現在增加原額 |
| 01:28:16,180 | 01:28:18,180 | 那如果我們現在是有很多人願意 |
| 01:28:18,180 | 01:28:20,180 | 來那你增加原額當然沒有問題 |
| 01:28:20,180 | 01:28:22,180 | 但是問題是現在就是報到率很低嘛 |
| 01:28:22,180 | 01:28:24,180 | 所以問題就在於說我們要 |
| 01:28:24,180 | 01:28:26,180 | 如何讓這些有 |
| 01:28:26,180 | 01:28:28,180 | 已經都來考試的人願意 |
| 01:28:28,180 | 01:28:30,180 | 來報到嘛要讓他 |
| 01:28:30,180 | 01:28:32,180 | 真實的感覺到環境有變好 |
| 01:28:32,180 | 01:28:34,180 | 他才願意來嘛所以現在就問 |
| 01:28:34,180 | 01:28:36,180 | 你的問題就是如何讓他們 |
| 01:28:36,180 | 01:28:38,180 | 真實的感受到你做了哪些 |
| 01:28:38,180 | 01:28:40,180 | 事情這樣子其實我們從今年1月 |
| 01:28:40,180 | 01:28:42,180 | 個尤其幾個監控 |
| 01:28:42,180 | 01:28:44,180 | 法院就開始把書記官 |
| 01:28:44,180 | 01:28:46,180 | 的事務工作切出去他們 |
| 01:28:46,180 | 01:28:48,180 | 已經有感了在職的書記官 |
| 01:28:48,180 | 01:28:50,180 | 是有感的我們希望透過 |
| 01:28:50,180 | 01:28:52,180 | 這種有感讓外面 |
| 01:28:52,180 | 01:28:54,180 | 要進來的書記官知道 |
| 01:28:54,180 | 01:28:56,180 | 我的工作環境是改變了 |
| 01:28:56,180 | 01:28:58,180 | 這個是最重要的 |
| 01:28:58,180 | 01:29:00,180 | 他們才願意來報到 |
| 01:29:00,180 | 01:29:02,180 | 好那我也希望就是說 |
| 01:29:02,180 | 01:29:04,180 | 接下來的報到率可以提供給我們 |
| 01:29:04,180 | 01:29:06,180 | 一份報告來看看你所說的 |
| 01:29:06,180 | 01:29:08,180 | 這些東西是不是真的有感 |
| 01:29:08,180 | 01:29:10,180 | 好那接下來我們請這個 |
| 01:29:10,180 | 01:29:12,180 | 我們還是要繼續請秘書長 |
| 01:29:12,180 | 01:29:14,180 | 我要問一下有關於法警跟 |
| 01:29:14,180 | 01:29:16,180 | 這次的修法的問題就是說 |
| 01:29:16,180 | 01:29:18,180 | 我們現在這次的修法提高的是 |
| 01:29:18,180 | 01:29:20,180 | 法警長跟副法警長 |
| 01:29:20,180 | 01:29:22,180 | 那是我們一般 |
| 01:29:22,180 | 01:29:24,180 | 法警的職等還是 |
| 01:29:24,180 | 01:29:26,180 | 維持在委任的第三職等 |
| 01:29:26,180 | 01:29:28,180 | 跟到第五職等 |
| 01:29:28,180 | 01:29:30,180 | 所以基層法警的職涯天花板 |
| 01:29:30,180 | 01:29:32,180 | 是沒有改變的可是其實 |
| 01:29:32,180 | 01:29:34,180 | 法警是透過司法特稿 |
| 01:29:34,180 | 01:29:36,180 | 四等禁用的 |
| 01:29:36,180 | 01:29:38,180 | 那這個四等考試決定的 |
| 01:29:38,180 | 01:29:40,180 | 應該只是初任資格 |
| 01:29:40,180 | 01:29:42,180 | 而不是直接變成職涯的天花板 |
| 01:29:42,180 | 01:29:44,180 | 再加上過去的質詢嘛 |
| 01:29:44,180 | 01:29:46,180 | 我們在講法院的安全 |
| 01:29:46,180 | 01:29:48,180 | 之前的一些法院的打人 |
| 01:29:48,180 | 01:29:50,180 | 攻擊事件我們都希望可以去強化 |
| 01:29:50,180 | 01:29:52,180 | 而且明確化法警的一些 |
| 01:29:52,180 | 01:29:54,180 | 工作內容那也就代表 |
| 01:29:54,180 | 01:29:56,180 | 是說法警的工作已經 |
| 01:29:56,180 | 01:29:58,180 | 不是只是程序還有包含 |
| 01:29:58,180 | 01:30:00,180 | 安全秩序等等的 |
| 01:30:00,180 | 01:30:02,180 | 所以既然他的工作量增加 |
| 01:30:02,180 | 01:30:04,180 | 那我就想要請教為什麼我們自己 |
| 01:30:04,180 | 01:30:06,180 | 司法院提出的修法裡面沒有 |
| 01:30:06,180 | 01:30:08,180 | 去調整呢 |
| 01:30:08,180 | 01:30:10,180 | 可是卻對其他委員的 |
| 01:30:10,180 | 01:30:12,180 | 這個版本說 |
| 01:30:12,180 | 01:30:14,180 | 競表尊重那到底司法院的態度 |
| 01:30:14,180 | 01:30:16,180 | 到底是什麼 |
| 01:30:16,180 | 01:30:18,180 | 剛我已經跟陳委員報告過 |
| 01:30:18,180 | 01:30:20,180 | 我們當初在跟全序部協商的時候 |
| 01:30:20,180 | 01:30:22,180 | 因為牽涉到考試職等 |
| 01:30:22,180 | 01:30:24,180 | 老實說我們是尊重全序部 |
| 01:30:24,180 | 01:30:26,180 | 所以我們暫時是想說 |
| 01:30:26,180 | 01:30:28,180 | 我們先讓這個 |
| 01:30:28,180 | 01:30:30,180 | 法警長 副法警長 |
| 01:30:30,180 | 01:30:32,180 | 這種真的是一個指揮監督的 |
| 01:30:32,180 | 01:30:34,180 | 先申職等 |
| 01:30:34,180 | 01:30:36,180 | 這個也是我們要做的 |
| 01:30:36,180 | 01:30:38,180 | 很感謝各位委員如果願意支持 |
| 01:30:38,180 | 01:30:40,180 | 真的我們當初的 |
| 01:30:40,180 | 01:30:42,180 | 各位委員我承認 |
| 01:30:42,180 | 01:30:44,180 | 當初我們設想就是因為什麼考試啊 |
| 01:30:44,180 | 01:30:46,180 | 職等就被限制住了 |
| 01:30:46,180 | 01:30:48,180 | 所以沒有說我們 |
| 01:30:48,180 | 01:30:50,180 | 像陳委員所說的 |
| 01:30:50,180 | 01:30:52,180 | 當然要改變 我當時真的沒有這樣想 |
| 01:30:52,180 | 01:30:54,180 | 可是如果 |
| 01:30:54,180 | 01:30:56,180 | 委員給我們這個力量 |
| 01:30:56,180 | 01:30:58,180 | 我們當然希望改變 |
| 01:30:58,180 | 01:31:00,180 | 我希望因為司法院我們自己看到了 |
| 01:31:00,180 | 01:31:02,180 | 很多實務上面的一些問題 |
| 01:31:02,180 | 01:31:04,180 | 其實委員在過去這半年來 |
| 01:31:04,180 | 01:31:06,180 | 也有給很多的提醒跟建議 |
| 01:31:06,180 | 01:31:08,180 | 以及我想不分黨派大家對於 |
| 01:31:08,180 | 01:31:10,180 | 法警的一些薪資福利待遇等等 |
| 01:31:10,180 | 01:31:12,180 | 各種我們都是積極的 |
| 01:31:12,180 | 01:31:14,180 | 來爭取啦 那我希望司法院 |
| 01:31:14,180 | 01:31:16,180 | 應該要考量到我們自己員工在 |
| 01:31:16,180 | 01:31:18,180 | 工作環境的處境 |
| 01:31:18,180 | 01:31:20,180 | 而不是等到大家都不來的時候呢 |
| 01:31:20,180 | 01:31:22,180 | 我們才來改善 |
| 01:31:22,180 | 01:31:24,180 | 真的就有點太晚了 |
| 01:31:24,180 | 01:31:26,180 | 所以我希望就是說司法院在這一點上面 |
| 01:31:26,180 | 01:31:28,180 | 也一定要來配合 |
| 01:31:28,180 | 01:31:30,180 | 一定要來去同步的調整好不好 |
| 01:31:30,180 | 01:31:32,180 | 謝謝 |
| 01:31:34,180 | 01:31:36,180 | 好 謝謝陳委員 |
| 01:31:44,180 | 01:31:46,180 | 接下來我們請 |
| 01:31:46,180 | 01:31:48,180 | 歐小林委員進行質詢 |
| 01:31:52,180 | 01:31:54,180 | 好 謝謝主席 我在這邊有請 |
| 01:31:54,180 | 01:31:56,180 | 高秘書長還有淮旭次長 |
| 01:31:56,180 | 01:31:58,180 | 好 麻煩高秘書長 |
| 01:31:58,180 | 01:32:00,180 | 還有環次長 謝謝 |
| 01:32:04,180 | 01:32:06,180 | 好 這個秘書長還有次長 |
| 01:32:06,180 | 01:32:08,180 | 我想我這裡 |
| 01:32:08,180 | 01:32:10,180 | 首先先就針對 |
| 01:32:10,180 | 01:32:12,180 | 這次我們修正法院 |
| 01:32:12,180 | 01:32:14,180 | 的組織法 等等相關的專業法院的組織法 |
| 01:32:14,180 | 01:32:16,180 | 裡面調整 |
| 01:32:16,180 | 01:32:18,180 | 書記官的職等 |
| 01:32:18,180 | 01:32:20,180 | 還有法警長的職等以及法警的職等 |
| 01:32:20,180 | 01:32:22,180 | 來跟兩位 |
| 01:32:22,180 | 01:32:24,180 | 來進行討論 |
| 01:32:24,180 | 01:32:26,180 | 因為事實上就是 |
| 01:32:26,180 | 01:32:28,180 | 我在7月20號的時候其實也去 |
| 01:32:28,180 | 01:32:30,180 | 桃園地方法院當時去 |
| 01:32:30,180 | 01:32:32,180 | 參訪 那麼就 |
| 01:32:32,180 | 01:32:34,180 | 精神衛生法 法官參審制 |
| 01:32:34,180 | 01:32:36,180 | 以及司法人力的制度來進行 |
| 01:32:36,180 | 01:32:38,180 | 一個考察 |
| 01:32:38,180 | 01:32:40,180 | 那根據司法院的簡報其實現在 |
| 01:32:40,180 | 01:32:42,180 | 因為詐欺案件量大量的增加 |
| 01:32:42,180 | 01:32:44,180 | 那麼法警體檢人犯的次數 |
| 01:32:44,180 | 01:32:46,180 | 也呈現了爆炸性的成長 |
| 01:32:46,180 | 01:32:48,180 | 114年的 |
| 01:32:48,180 | 01:32:50,180 | 他們這個 |
| 01:32:50,180 | 01:32:52,180 | 體檢人犯的次數比112年 |
| 01:32:52,180 | 01:32:54,180 | 同期 基本上 |
| 01:32:54,180 | 01:32:56,180 | 就增加了45% |
| 01:32:56,180 | 01:32:58,180 | 的這樣很高的比例 |
| 01:32:58,180 | 01:33:00,180 | 等於說工作量將近增加了 |
| 01:33:00,180 | 01:33:02,180 | 五成 所以我們 |
| 01:33:02,180 | 01:33:04,180 | 也因為看到其實法警 |
| 01:33:04,180 | 01:33:06,180 | 也很辛苦 所以在 |
| 01:33:06,180 | 01:33:08,180 | 本行這一次的修法 |
| 01:33:08,180 | 01:33:10,180 | 裡面 我就是將法警的職等 |
| 01:33:10,180 | 01:33:12,180 | 從現在的委任3職等 |
| 01:33:12,180 | 01:33:14,180 | 到5職等 然後又往上面提高 |
| 01:33:14,180 | 01:33:16,180 | 到建任6職等 |
| 01:33:16,180 | 01:33:18,180 | 那麼可是事實上 |
| 01:33:18,180 | 01:33:20,180 | 剛剛聽了就是秘書長基本上可能 |
| 01:33:20,180 | 01:33:22,180 | 也支持我們可以就是將 |
| 01:33:22,180 | 01:33:24,180 | 法警的職等調高 但是 |
| 01:33:24,180 | 01:33:26,180 | 詮訊部這裡是反對的 |
| 01:33:26,180 | 01:33:28,180 | 那詮訊部的理由 |
| 01:33:28,180 | 01:33:30,180 | 詮訊部的理由是說 因為在公共人員 |
| 01:33:30,180 | 01:33:32,180 | 任用法裡面 現在 |
| 01:33:32,180 | 01:33:34,180 | 最多職等的調整就是 |
| 01:33:34,180 | 01:33:36,180 | 只能夠調兩個職等是不是 |
| 01:33:36,180 | 01:33:38,180 | 2到3個職等 |
| 01:33:38,180 | 01:33:40,180 | 所以如果說從委任3職等到 |
| 01:33:40,180 | 01:33:42,180 | 建任6職等的話 |
| 01:33:42,180 | 01:33:44,180 | 就等於調了4個職等 |
| 01:33:44,180 | 01:33:46,180 | 因此你們是反對這樣的 |
| 01:33:46,180 | 01:33:48,180 | 一個做法 而且也認為 |
| 01:33:48,180 | 01:33:50,180 | 說是這個法警 |
| 01:33:50,180 | 01:33:52,180 | 應該要跟警察的職等 |
| 01:33:52,180 | 01:33:54,180 | 是不是要相一致 |
| 01:33:54,180 | 01:33:56,180 | 是不是剛剛指的意思是 |
| 01:33:56,180 | 01:33:58,180 | 我跟委員報告一下 |
| 01:33:58,180 | 01:34:00,180 | 就是說這次的調整 |
| 01:34:00,180 | 01:34:02,180 | 包括書記官 副法警長 |
| 01:34:02,180 | 01:34:04,180 | 還有隊長 這我們考試院 |
| 01:34:04,180 | 01:34:06,180 | 跟詮訊部都是支持的 |
| 01:34:06,180 | 01:34:08,180 | 之前討論都這樣 那麼在 |
| 01:34:08,180 | 01:34:10,180 | 之前那個法警的部分 |
| 01:34:10,180 | 01:34:12,180 | 曾經有來談的是說 希望從 |
| 01:34:12,180 | 01:34:14,180 | 3到5調整為4到5 |
| 01:34:14,180 | 01:34:16,180 | 但這個部分呢 考試院跟詮訊部 |
| 01:34:16,180 | 01:34:18,180 | 我們這邊的意見是說 因為考試 |
| 01:34:18,180 | 01:34:20,180 | 初任職務就是 |
| 01:34:20,180 | 01:34:22,180 | 因為4等考試就是3職等任用 |
| 01:34:22,180 | 01:34:24,180 | 一初任就全理 |
| 01:34:24,180 | 01:34:26,180 | 這個可能 這個就已經 |
| 01:34:26,180 | 01:34:28,180 | 違背了我們目前考試的這個制度 |
| 01:34:28,180 | 01:34:30,180 | 那所以後來 |
| 01:34:30,180 | 01:34:32,180 | 這個部分就沒有看到有進一步的 |
| 01:34:32,180 | 01:34:34,180 | 討論 那這次您所提的這個 |
| 01:34:34,180 | 01:34:36,180 | 查案應該會3到5或6 |
| 01:34:36,180 | 01:34:38,180 | 但是我們這次的書記官 |
| 01:34:38,180 | 01:34:40,180 | 調整呢 其中 |
| 01:34:40,180 | 01:34:42,180 | 3等書記官 |
| 01:34:42,180 | 01:34:44,180 | 也有受到 其中是 |
| 01:34:44,180 | 01:34:46,180 | 二分之一得列 兼任第六職等 |
| 01:34:46,180 | 01:34:48,180 | 但是我們法警這樣的調整 |
| 01:34:48,180 | 01:34:50,180 | 就是直接一個職務就變成 |
| 01:34:50,180 | 01:34:52,180 | 3到5或6 |
| 01:34:52,180 | 01:34:54,180 | 這兩個之間就會產生完全 |
| 01:34:54,180 | 01:34:56,180 | 不平衡的狀況 |
| 01:34:56,180 | 01:34:58,180 | 我想這個詮訊部的意見 |
| 01:34:58,180 | 01:35:00,180 | 本身是很清楚 但是 |
| 01:35:00,180 | 01:35:02,180 | 我現在要談就是說 我們現在的這種 |
| 01:35:02,180 | 01:35:04,180 | 值等官等表 有多少年 |
| 01:35:04,180 | 01:35:06,180 | 沒有修了 |
| 01:35:06,180 | 01:35:08,180 | 我們事實上最近都一直在修 |
| 01:35:08,180 | 01:35:10,180 | 就是以目前現在來講 |
| 01:35:10,180 | 01:35:12,180 | 我們這一套制度 有沒有70年 |
| 01:35:12,180 | 01:35:14,180 | 都沒修了 |
| 01:35:14,180 | 01:35:16,180 | 從民國幾年就開始實施 |
| 01:35:16,180 | 01:35:18,180 | 民國76年實施新人士制度以後 |
| 01:35:18,180 | 01:35:20,180 | 中間很多植物類 |
| 01:35:20,180 | 01:35:22,180 | 都有在調整 |
| 01:35:22,180 | 01:35:24,180 | 法律 但是植物類等 |
| 01:35:24,180 | 01:35:26,180 | 都有在調整 |
| 01:35:26,180 | 01:35:28,180 | 歷次 那個這幾年來都 |
| 01:35:28,180 | 01:35:30,180 | 那現在的問題就是說 |
| 01:35:30,180 | 01:35:32,180 | 因為呢 這個法警跟警察 |
| 01:35:32,180 | 01:35:34,180 | 其實他們的本俸 |
| 01:35:34,180 | 01:35:36,180 | 起序都是從150點開始 |
| 01:35:36,180 | 01:35:38,180 | 就是他們本俸是相同的 |
| 01:35:38,180 | 01:35:40,180 | 差別基本上是在年供俸 |
| 01:35:40,180 | 01:35:42,180 | 我們知道整個公務人員的 |
| 01:35:42,180 | 01:35:44,180 | 薪資結構 他就包含是本俸 |
| 01:35:44,180 | 01:35:46,180 | 專業加給 |
| 01:35:46,180 | 01:35:48,180 | 還有植物加給 |
| 01:35:48,180 | 01:35:50,180 | 再加上加班費 那現在法警 |
| 01:35:50,180 | 01:35:52,180 | 跟警察其實最大的不同就在於說 |
| 01:35:52,180 | 01:35:54,180 | 警察的本俸他還可以 |
| 01:35:54,180 | 01:35:56,180 | 一直往上面調 |
| 01:35:56,180 | 01:35:58,180 | 他最高可以調到550點 |
| 01:35:58,180 | 01:36:00,180 | 或是500點或到 |
| 01:36:00,180 | 01:36:02,180 | 525點 |
| 01:36:02,180 | 01:36:04,180 | 可是呢 如果說是法警的話 |
| 01:36:04,180 | 01:36:06,180 | 他基本上可能就卡死了 |
| 01:36:06,180 | 01:36:08,180 | 他最高只有到330點 |
| 01:36:08,180 | 01:36:10,180 | 我覺得也是因為如此 |
| 01:36:10,180 | 01:36:12,180 | 所以法警同仁才會覺得說 |
| 01:36:12,180 | 01:36:14,180 | 心裡面很不平衡 |
| 01:36:14,180 | 01:36:16,180 | 那我們現在要講就是說 |
| 01:36:16,180 | 01:36:18,180 | 因為我們現在已經提出了這樣的修法 |
| 01:36:18,180 | 01:36:20,180 | 如果說今天我們在場很多的委員 |
| 01:36:20,180 | 01:36:22,180 | 包含司法院在內 |
| 01:36:22,180 | 01:36:24,180 | 我們都支持未來 |
| 01:36:24,180 | 01:36:26,180 | 法警的職等要調到 |
| 01:36:26,180 | 01:36:28,180 | 見任六職等 |
| 01:36:28,180 | 01:36:30,180 | 大概不外乎兩種做法 |
| 01:36:30,180 | 01:36:32,180 | 第一個就是現在的情況 就三職等 |
| 01:36:32,180 | 01:36:34,180 | 就委任三職等然後調到見任六職等 |
| 01:36:34,180 | 01:36:36,180 | 不然的話如果說要符合 |
| 01:36:36,180 | 01:36:38,180 | 剛剛全區部的說法 |
| 01:36:38,180 | 01:36:40,180 | 不然我們就把委任三職等 |
| 01:36:40,180 | 01:36:42,180 | 的這個地板 |
| 01:36:42,180 | 01:36:44,180 | 我們就往上面提嘛 |
| 01:36:44,180 | 01:36:46,180 | 就從委員四職等到見任六職等 |
| 01:36:46,180 | 01:36:48,180 | 不知道就是全區部這邊看法如何 |
| 01:36:48,180 | 01:36:50,180 | 我跟委員報告一下 |
| 01:36:50,180 | 01:36:52,180 | 第一個法警跟警察 |
| 01:36:52,180 | 01:36:54,180 | 兩個是不同的任用制度 |
| 01:36:54,180 | 01:36:56,180 | 警察是依照警察官的 |
| 01:36:56,180 | 01:36:58,180 | 人質條例是禁用他們有他們的考試方式 |
| 01:36:58,180 | 01:37:00,180 | 訓練方式然後 |
| 01:37:00,180 | 01:37:02,180 | 完全是不同的養成背景跟 |
| 01:37:02,180 | 01:37:04,180 | 而且他們的工作內容一個是司法 |
| 01:37:04,180 | 01:37:06,180 | 一個是工作內容是 |
| 01:37:06,180 | 01:37:08,180 | 完全不一樣的 |
| 01:37:08,180 | 01:37:10,180 | 把兩樣不同植物把它兜成一樣 |
| 01:37:10,180 | 01:37:12,180 | 這部分可能要請委員再 |
| 01:37:12,180 | 01:37:14,180 | 慎重考慮那第二個部分是說 |
| 01:37:14,180 | 01:37:16,180 | 因為我們現在考試及格人員 |
| 01:37:16,180 | 01:37:18,180 | 沒有說直接就直接就進行 |
| 01:37:18,180 | 01:37:20,180 | 權利因為在任用制度上 |
| 01:37:20,180 | 01:37:22,180 | 用權利這是這個是指說 |
| 01:37:22,180 | 01:37:24,180 | 因為你已經進來了但是因為你表現 |
| 01:37:24,180 | 01:37:26,180 | 很好所以你升遷的比較快 |
| 01:37:26,180 | 01:37:28,180 | 所以才會有權利這樣的一個概念 |
| 01:37:28,180 | 01:37:30,180 | 我只用白話說法 |
| 01:37:30,180 | 01:37:32,180 | 可是你一考試資格進來就 |
| 01:37:32,180 | 01:37:34,180 | 用三職 |
| 01:37:34,180 | 01:37:36,180 | 三職的人權利第四職等都還在 |
| 01:37:36,180 | 01:37:38,180 | 試用階段試用階段 |
| 01:37:38,180 | 01:37:40,180 | 就進行權利這個 |
| 01:37:40,180 | 01:37:42,180 | 在法律上這樣 |
| 01:37:42,180 | 01:37:44,180 | 是不妥適的 |
| 01:37:44,180 | 01:37:46,180 | 我想這裡我就拜託 |
| 01:37:46,180 | 01:37:48,180 | 次長因為就像我們說的 |
| 01:37:48,180 | 01:37:50,180 | 整個公務人員的質等觀等的這套制度 |
| 01:37:50,180 | 01:37:52,180 | 已經幾十年沒有改變了 |
| 01:37:52,180 | 01:37:54,180 | 那的確它反映出很多 |
| 01:37:54,180 | 01:37:56,180 | 現在一些不合理的現象 |
| 01:37:56,180 | 01:37:58,180 | 那我們現在就是要解決問題 |
| 01:37:58,180 | 01:38:00,180 | 我們是希望說能夠將法典 |
| 01:38:00,180 | 01:38:02,180 | 的質等然後 |
| 01:38:02,180 | 01:38:04,180 | 然後升遷的質等然後能夠 |
| 01:38:04,180 | 01:38:06,180 | 做個合理的調整 |
| 01:38:06,180 | 01:38:08,180 | 那你不能說我們今天所有的提案 |
| 01:38:08,180 | 01:38:10,180 | 然後全序部都說又違反公務人員 |
| 01:38:10,180 | 01:38:12,180 | 任用法又違反什麼什麼 |
| 01:38:12,180 | 01:38:14,180 | 我們現在希望能夠解決 |
| 01:38:14,180 | 01:38:16,180 | 所以本行希望全序部是不是可以提供 |
| 01:38:16,180 | 01:38:18,180 | 供一套比較好的方式 |
| 01:38:18,180 | 01:38:20,180 | 總之我們就是要將法己的 |
| 01:38:20,180 | 01:38:22,180 | 指導往上面提高 |
| 01:38:22,180 | 01:38:24,180 | 那你們認為要怎麼樣修法嗎 |
| 01:38:24,180 | 01:38:26,180 | 不能每次都是我們這邊提的修法 |
| 01:38:26,180 | 01:38:28,180 | 然後你們都一再的反對再反對 |
| 01:38:28,180 | 01:38:30,180 | 就像是我們修改這個 |
| 01:38:30,180 | 01:38:32,180 | 退休公教人員的年金 |
| 01:38:32,180 | 01:38:34,180 | 改革法也一樣 |
| 01:38:34,180 | 01:38:36,180 | 我們就是大家就認為 |
| 01:38:36,180 | 01:38:38,180 | 就一定要這樣做了然後全序部 |
| 01:38:38,180 | 01:38:40,180 | 還是從頭到尾都反對 |
| 01:38:40,180 | 01:38:42,180 | 甚至連我們法律通過了你們還可以 |
| 01:38:42,180 | 01:38:44,180 | 做歪曲的解釋我不覺得說 |
| 01:38:44,180 | 01:38:46,180 | 我認為說這是全序部 |
| 01:38:46,180 | 01:38:48,180 | 一個推卸責任的做法 |
| 01:38:48,180 | 01:38:50,180 | 我跟委員報告 |
| 01:38:50,180 | 01:38:52,180 | 這個法律生效後依照中法規標準法規 |
| 01:38:52,180 | 01:38:54,180 | 就是向後生效這個 |
| 01:38:54,180 | 01:38:56,180 | 這個部分絕對不是我們部裡面 |
| 01:38:56,180 | 01:38:58,180 | 可以用歪曲解釋的 |
| 01:38:58,180 | 01:39:00,180 | 所謂生效的日期啦 |
| 01:39:00,180 | 01:39:02,180 | 這個部分我不跟你們討論 |
| 01:39:02,180 | 01:39:04,180 | 因為這個法律的間接解釋 |
| 01:39:04,180 | 01:39:06,180 | 本來就有很大的不同 |
| 01:39:06,180 | 01:39:08,180 | 我只是認為說全序部你們就是 |
| 01:39:08,180 | 01:39:10,180 | 去做了一個最不合理的解釋 |
| 01:39:10,180 | 01:39:12,180 | 那麼回到我們今天講的法院 |
| 01:39:12,180 | 01:39:14,180 | 的修法 |
| 01:39:14,180 | 01:39:16,180 | 我希望你們能夠提出 |
| 01:39:16,180 | 01:39:18,180 | 如果我們要解決這個案子 |
| 01:39:18,180 | 01:39:20,180 | 要怎麼樣從法律上面去解決 |
| 01:39:20,180 | 01:39:22,180 | 否則的話我們可能就按照我們現在 |
| 01:39:22,180 | 01:39:24,180 | 這個幾個委員的這個版本 |
| 01:39:24,180 | 01:39:26,180 | 我們就這樣通過了不要到時候 |
| 01:39:26,180 | 01:39:28,180 | 這個全序部又說這有違憲 |
| 01:39:28,180 | 01:39:30,180 | 又什麼什麼的問題 |
| 01:39:30,180 | 01:39:32,180 | 好那麼在這裡的話就 |
| 01:39:32,180 | 01:39:34,180 | 先謝謝懷旭懷次長 |
| 01:39:34,180 | 01:39:36,180 | 那也希望你們一個月內 |
| 01:39:36,180 | 01:39:38,180 | 可以給我提出一個 |
| 01:39:38,180 | 01:39:40,180 | 一個月內我覺得太晚了因為我們這個法案會加速進行 |
| 01:39:40,180 | 01:39:42,180 | 那兩個禮拜 |
| 01:39:42,180 | 01:39:44,180 | 兩個星期之內給我一個 |
| 01:39:44,180 | 01:39:46,180 | 這個就是你們提的 |
| 01:39:46,180 | 01:39:48,180 | 相關的 |
| 01:39:48,180 | 01:39:50,180 | 的方案好不好就是我們如果說 |
| 01:39:50,180 | 01:39:52,180 | 要朝向提高質等的話 |
| 01:39:52,180 | 01:39:54,180 | 你們的建議做法是如何 |
| 01:39:54,180 | 01:39:56,180 | 那就謝謝次長好那接下來 |
| 01:39:56,180 | 01:39:58,180 | 我要再請教秘書長的是 |
| 01:39:58,180 | 01:40:00,180 | 最近 |
| 01:40:00,180 | 01:40:02,180 | 其實有人在反映 |
| 01:40:02,180 | 01:40:04,180 | 我們看到桃園的一個法官 |
| 01:40:04,180 | 01:40:06,180 | 他在判決書 |
| 01:40:06,180 | 01:40:08,180 | 上面 |
| 01:40:08,180 | 01:40:10,180 | 這個寫了一段很奇怪的話 |
| 01:40:10,180 | 01:40:12,180 | 那麼我們 |
| 01:40:12,180 | 01:40:14,180 | 我想這個高質長 |
| 01:40:14,180 | 01:40:16,180 | 因為您當法官也這麼多年 |
| 01:40:16,180 | 01:40:18,180 | 您大家很清楚知道我們 |
| 01:40:18,180 | 01:40:20,180 | 判決書的格式大概是怎麼樣 |
| 01:40:20,180 | 01:40:22,180 | 通常大概就是判決 |
| 01:40:22,180 | 01:40:24,180 | 主文主文之後就會寫事實 |
| 01:40:24,180 | 01:40:26,180 | 及理由你有曾經有看過 |
| 01:40:26,180 | 01:40:28,180 | 人家在事實理由之後的 |
| 01:40:28,180 | 01:40:30,180 | 第一段先寫個 |
| 01:40:30,180 | 01:40:32,180 | 叫寫在最前面 |
| 01:40:32,180 | 01:40:34,180 | 就他在開始 |
| 01:40:34,180 | 01:40:36,180 | 去敘述這個 |
| 01:40:36,180 | 01:40:38,180 | 事實或者理由之前 |
| 01:40:38,180 | 01:40:40,180 | 他先寫個前言 |
| 01:40:40,180 | 01:40:42,180 | 這當然 |
| 01:40:42,180 | 01:40:44,180 | 這個我不知道之前有沒有法官 |
| 01:40:44,180 | 01:40:46,180 | 曾經有這麼做但是呢我曉得 |
| 01:40:46,180 | 01:40:48,180 | 就是說其實過去也曾經發生過 |
| 01:40:48,180 | 01:40:50,180 | 還蠻多起的這個 |
| 01:40:50,180 | 01:40:52,180 | 在法官他在寫完 |
| 01:40:52,180 | 01:40:54,180 | 判決書之後他寫個後記 |
| 01:40:54,180 | 01:40:56,180 | 對一個什麼 |
| 01:40:56,180 | 01:40:58,180 | 付諸事項譬如說在早期 |
| 01:40:58,180 | 01:41:00,180 | 有個法官叔叔的判決 |
| 01:41:00,180 | 01:41:02,180 | 他就寫個付諸事項或是說 |
| 01:41:02,180 | 01:41:04,180 | 有所謂這種可憐小人物法官 |
| 01:41:04,180 | 01:41:06,180 | 當時可能是個可憐小人物 |
| 01:41:06,180 | 01:41:08,180 | 所以有所謂可憐小人物的判決 |
| 01:41:08,180 | 01:41:10,180 | 後面寫個後記 |
| 01:41:10,180 | 01:41:12,180 | 或者是還有一個法官 |
| 01:41:12,180 | 01:41:14,180 | 他就當時正好流行看 |
| 01:41:14,180 | 01:41:16,180 | 這個與惡的距離 |
| 01:41:16,180 | 01:41:18,180 | 所以他就寫個與惡的距離的判決 |
| 01:41:18,180 | 01:41:20,180 | 後面也寫了一個 |
| 01:41:20,180 | 01:41:22,180 | 本案審理後的註記 |
| 01:41:22,180 | 01:41:24,180 | 所以類似像這種我們現在判決書裡面 |
| 01:41:24,180 | 01:41:26,180 | 三不五時可能會看到 |
| 01:41:26,180 | 01:41:28,180 | 一些奇奇怪怪的這種現象 |
| 01:41:28,180 | 01:41:30,180 | 不知道就是 |
| 01:41:30,180 | 01:41:32,180 | 民事長因為您先前是 |
| 01:41:32,180 | 01:41:34,180 | 當法院的院長 |
| 01:41:34,180 | 01:41:36,180 | 現在又當了司法院秘書長 |
| 01:41:36,180 | 01:41:38,180 | 你有沒有認為像這樣子的 |
| 01:41:38,180 | 01:41:40,180 | 判決書的撰寫方式 |
| 01:41:40,180 | 01:41:42,180 | 應該司法院要做一個 |
| 01:41:42,180 | 01:41:44,180 | 行政指導或是要頒布一個 |
| 01:41:44,180 | 01:41:46,180 | 註意事項 |
| 01:41:46,180 | 01:41:48,180 | 我們可以容許這樣的寫法嗎 |
| 01:41:48,180 | 01:41:50,180 | 跟委員報告 |
| 01:41:50,180 | 01:41:52,180 | 其實判決該怎麼寫 |
| 01:41:52,180 | 01:41:54,180 | 訴訟法規定的清清楚楚 |
| 01:41:54,180 | 01:41:56,180 | 那法官們 |
| 01:41:56,180 | 01:41:58,180 | 他要多寫 |
| 01:41:58,180 | 01:42:00,180 | 他不是無效 |
| 01:42:00,180 | 01:42:02,180 | 他可能要表達他的情緒 |
| 01:42:02,180 | 01:42:04,180 | 當然對於情緒的表達 |
| 01:42:04,180 | 01:42:08,180 | 是不是在整個訴訟法規定的範圍內 |
| 01:42:08,180 | 01:42:10,180 | 老實說你要問我個人意見的話 |
| 01:42:10,180 | 01:42:12,180 | 是有斟酌的餘地 |
| 01:42:12,180 | 01:42:16,180 | 這種話要不要在這邊寫 |
| 01:42:16,180 | 01:42:18,180 | 問我個人的意見 |
| 01:42:18,180 | 01:42:20,180 | 我是不建議 |
| 01:42:20,180 | 01:42:22,180 | 因為有時候 |
| 01:42:22,180 | 01:42:24,180 | 可能應該在法庭上 |
| 01:42:24,180 | 01:42:26,180 | 跟當事人講就好了 |
| 01:42:26,180 | 01:42:28,180 | 不需要寫到判決裡面 |
| 01:42:28,180 | 01:42:30,180 | 不需要寫到判決裡面去 |
| 01:42:30,180 | 01:42:32,180 | 是 我想判決的格式 |
| 01:42:32,180 | 01:42:34,180 | 我個人是認為 |
| 01:42:34,180 | 01:42:36,180 | 一定要是嚴謹 |
| 01:42:36,180 | 01:42:38,180 | 而且是嚴肅 |
| 01:42:38,180 | 01:42:40,180 | 是 非常贊同秘書長的這個觀點 |
| 01:42:40,180 | 01:42:42,180 | 因為我跟您一樣的看法 |
| 01:42:42,180 | 01:42:44,180 | 我覺得在判決書的這個裡面 |
| 01:42:44,180 | 01:42:46,180 | 在第一段 |
| 01:42:46,180 | 01:42:48,180 | 他先寫個前言 |
| 01:42:48,180 | 01:42:50,180 | 還告訴當事人說 |
| 01:42:50,180 | 01:42:52,180 | 你不要問 |
| 01:42:52,180 | 01:42:54,180 | 假設要提上訴的話 |
| 01:42:54,180 | 01:42:56,180 | 不要問AI |
| 01:42:56,180 | 01:42:58,180 | 有執照的律師 |
| 01:42:58,180 | 01:43:00,180 | 來幫他上訴 |
| 01:43:00,180 | 01:43:02,180 | 我覺得其實這個都已經 |
| 01:43:02,180 | 01:43:04,180 | 逾越了這個法官的這個職權 |
| 01:43:04,180 | 01:43:06,180 | 更何況是 |
| 01:43:06,180 | 01:43:08,180 | 不知道秘書長有沒有知道 |
| 01:43:08,180 | 01:43:10,180 | 你們之前有一位 |
| 01:43:10,180 | 01:43:12,180 | 台灣高等法院 |
| 01:43:12,180 | 01:43:14,180 | 台南分院的法官叫林貞賢 |
| 01:43:14,180 | 01:43:16,180 | 他曾經有寫過一篇報告 |
| 01:43:16,180 | 01:43:18,180 | 一篇論文 |
| 01:43:18,180 | 01:43:20,180 | 想說從我國判決書的 |
| 01:43:20,180 | 01:43:22,180 | 復記事項來談 |
| 01:43:22,180 | 01:43:24,180 | 當時他就講有很多的法官 |
| 01:43:24,180 | 01:43:26,180 | 在判決之後 |
| 01:43:26,180 | 01:43:28,180 | 但是在法官簽名之前 |
| 01:43:28,180 | 01:43:30,180 | 他寫了他的感想 |
| 01:43:30,180 | 01:43:32,180 | 他的這個復記事項 |
| 01:43:32,180 | 01:43:34,180 | 他也有從法律的角度去 |
| 01:43:34,180 | 01:43:36,180 | 質疑 |
| 01:43:36,180 | 01:43:38,180 | 類似這種復記事項 |
| 01:43:38,180 | 01:43:40,180 | 他算不算是整體判決書的一部分 |
| 01:43:40,180 | 01:43:42,180 | 如果說他是整體判決書的一部分 |
| 01:43:42,180 | 01:43:44,180 | 那麼當當事人 |
| 01:43:44,180 | 01:43:46,180 | 對於這個復記事項 |
| 01:43:46,180 | 01:43:48,180 | 或我們現在看的前言 |
| 01:43:48,180 | 01:43:50,180 | 認為內容有 |
| 01:43:50,180 | 01:43:52,180 | 有違法或是有不當的時候 |
| 01:43:52,180 | 01:43:54,180 | 可不可以以此作為上述的理由 |
| 01:43:54,180 | 01:43:56,180 | 我覺得這是一個很嚴肅的問題 |
| 01:43:56,180 | 01:43:58,180 | 那個 |
| 01:43:58,180 | 01:44:00,180 | 回答委員說 |
| 01:44:00,180 | 01:44:02,180 | 判決是一件嚴肅的 |
| 01:44:02,180 | 01:44:04,180 | 因為它絕對會牽涉到 |
| 01:44:04,180 | 01:44:06,180 | 你任何寫的東西可不可以作為上述的標的 |
| 01:44:06,180 | 01:44:08,180 | 這個是我們在法律上 |
| 01:44:08,180 | 01:44:10,180 | 必須要 |
| 01:44:10,180 | 01:44:12,180 | 很嚴格的來審視的 |
| 01:44:12,180 | 01:44:14,180 | 是所以呢因此本席 |
| 01:44:14,180 | 01:44:16,180 | 在這邊希望 |
| 01:44:16,180 | 01:44:18,180 | 司法院是不是也可以在 |
| 01:44:18,180 | 01:44:20,180 | 兩週內給本席 |
| 01:44:20,180 | 01:44:22,180 | 一份這個報告就是說 |
| 01:44:22,180 | 01:44:24,180 | 可不可以請你們針對像類似 |
| 01:44:24,180 | 01:44:26,180 | 這種法官他在寫判決書上的 |
| 01:44:26,180 | 01:44:28,180 | 一些這樣的一個奇怪的 |
| 01:44:28,180 | 01:44:30,180 | 一些做法可以就是 |
| 01:44:30,180 | 01:44:32,180 | 有一個比較清楚的 |
| 01:44:32,180 | 01:44:34,180 | 未來要怎麼樣去指導 |
| 01:44:34,180 | 01:44:36,180 | 或者說是要怎麼樣的去 |
| 01:44:36,180 | 01:44:38,180 | 處理類似這種判決書的 |
| 01:44:38,180 | 01:44:40,180 | 撰寫的方式好不好 |
| 01:44:40,180 | 01:44:42,180 | 因為實際上我們民宿 |
| 01:44:42,180 | 01:44:44,180 | 因為判決會牽涉到審判核心 |
| 01:44:44,180 | 01:44:46,180 | 如果碰到審判核心 |
| 01:44:46,180 | 01:44:48,180 | 我們司法行政 |
| 01:44:48,180 | 01:44:50,180 | 要有這個退縮 |
| 01:44:50,180 | 01:44:52,180 | 一定要退縮 |
| 01:44:52,180 | 01:44:54,180 | 當然如果他不是審判核心 |
| 01:44:54,180 | 01:44:56,180 | 我們可以做指導的 |
| 01:44:56,180 | 01:44:58,180 | 是好那這部分的話就是 |
| 01:44:58,180 | 01:45:00,180 | 麻煩這個前面署長這邊 |
| 01:45:00,180 | 01:45:02,180 | 再給我一份報告 |
| 01:45:02,180 | 01:45:04,180 | 好那接下來第三個問題就是 |
| 01:45:04,180 | 01:45:06,180 | 有關於職務評定的問題就像我們剛剛講的 |
| 01:45:06,180 | 01:45:08,180 | 其實有些法官他基本上 |
| 01:45:08,180 | 01:45:10,180 | 已經變成慣性他很喜歡在判決書 |
| 01:45:10,180 | 01:45:12,180 | 裡面常常發表他自己的一些高見 |
| 01:45:12,180 | 01:45:14,180 | 那麼當然除此之外 |
| 01:45:14,180 | 01:45:16,180 | 也有一些法官他可能涉及到 |
| 01:45:16,180 | 01:45:18,180 | 有貪污 |
| 01:45:18,180 | 01:45:20,180 | 或是性騷 |
| 01:45:20,180 | 01:45:22,180 | 最近有出現有檢察官 |
| 01:45:22,180 | 01:45:24,180 | 有放高利貸等等 |
| 01:45:24,180 | 01:45:26,180 | 本席想要談的就是說 |
| 01:45:26,180 | 01:45:28,180 | 有關於法官職務評定的議題 |
| 01:45:28,180 | 01:45:30,180 | 那其實在前幾次的質詢裡面 |
| 01:45:30,180 | 01:45:32,180 | 我都有關注這議題 |
| 01:45:32,180 | 01:45:34,180 | 只是當時因為民宿長沒有來 |
| 01:45:34,180 | 01:45:36,180 | 但我在這裡 |
| 01:45:36,180 | 01:45:38,180 | 我又看到了還有另外一個資料 |
| 01:45:38,180 | 01:45:40,180 | 這是我在7月8號的時候 |
| 01:45:40,180 | 01:45:42,180 | 當時提出質詢希望 |
| 01:45:42,180 | 01:45:44,180 | 法務部與司法院分別提供 |
| 01:45:44,180 | 01:45:48,180 | 檢察官及法官職務評定的統計數據 |
| 01:45:48,180 | 01:45:50,180 | 結果我不堪不知道一看嚇了一跳 |
| 01:45:50,180 | 01:45:52,180 | 原來我們所有的四個司法官 |
| 01:45:52,180 | 01:45:54,180 | 幾乎都是玩人 |
| 01:45:54,180 | 01:45:56,180 | 因為這個在評鑑的 |
| 01:45:56,180 | 01:46:00,180 | 從評鑑的統計資料裡面顯示 |
| 01:46:00,180 | 01:46:02,180 | 幾乎99% |
| 01:46:02,180 | 01:46:04,180 | 的法官 |
| 01:46:04,180 | 01:46:06,180 | 都是良好 |
| 01:46:06,180 | 01:46:08,180 | 那麼真正 |
| 01:46:08,180 | 01:46:10,180 | 未達良好的法官的比例 |
| 01:46:10,180 | 01:46:12,180 | 是非常之低 |
| 01:46:12,180 | 01:46:14,180 | 大概就100個人裡面 |
| 01:46:14,180 | 01:46:16,180 | 頂多就一個人 |
| 01:46:16,180 | 01:46:18,180 | 所謂的表現不好 |
| 01:46:18,180 | 01:46:20,180 | 可是事實上我們這些年 |
| 01:46:20,180 | 01:46:22,180 | 也的確看到蠻多社會新聞 |
| 01:46:22,180 | 01:46:24,180 | 有看到就是檢察官 |
| 01:46:24,180 | 01:46:26,180 | 不管在他的這個 |
| 01:46:26,180 | 01:46:28,180 | 起訴行為或是法官 |
| 01:46:28,180 | 01:46:30,180 | 在他判決裡面其實也出了一些問題 |
| 01:46:30,180 | 01:46:32,180 | 那麼對於這個部分 |
| 01:46:32,180 | 01:46:34,180 | 我想請教就是 |
| 01:46:34,180 | 01:46:36,180 | 司法院有沒有參考 |
| 01:46:36,180 | 01:46:38,180 | 現在公務人員的這種考機制度 |
| 01:46:38,180 | 01:46:40,180 | 應該將你們 |
| 01:46:40,180 | 01:46:42,180 | 平等植物評定的制度 |
| 01:46:42,180 | 01:46:44,180 | 要進行一些改革 |
| 01:46:44,180 | 01:46:46,180 | 目前就只有兩分法 |
| 01:46:46,180 | 01:46:48,180 | 不是良好就是未達良好 |
| 01:46:48,180 | 01:46:50,180 | 但是這個沒有辦法 |
| 01:46:50,180 | 01:46:52,180 | 真的去鑑別到底 |
| 01:46:52,180 | 01:46:54,180 | 良好之外還有沒有更優秀的 |
| 01:46:54,180 | 01:46:56,180 | 而未達良好 |
| 01:46:56,180 | 01:46:58,180 | 其實我們看到他整個結果是 |
| 01:46:58,180 | 01:47:00,180 | 人數和比例很低 |
| 01:47:00,180 | 01:47:02,180 | 所以事實上好像並沒有辦法 |
| 01:47:02,180 | 01:47:04,180 | 真的去淘汰 |
| 01:47:04,180 | 01:47:06,180 | 壞法官或是壞檢察官 |
| 01:47:06,180 | 01:47:08,180 | 我跟委員報告 |
| 01:47:08,180 | 01:47:10,180 | 我想良好就是良好 |
| 01:47:10,180 | 01:47:12,180 | 不要再去優秀什麼特優 |
| 01:47:12,180 | 01:47:14,180 | 我覺得不要造成一個競爭關係 |
| 01:47:14,180 | 01:47:16,180 | 那只是不良好我們有沒有 |
| 01:47:16,180 | 01:47:18,180 | 說對於不適任的法官 |
| 01:47:18,180 | 01:47:20,180 | 我們是給他良好嗎 |
| 01:47:20,180 | 01:47:22,180 | 其實跟委員報告 |
| 01:47:22,180 | 01:47:24,180 | 我們會常常看到法官有些判決 |
| 01:47:24,180 | 01:47:26,180 | 好像 |
| 01:47:26,180 | 01:47:28,180 | 好像有點走歪了 |
| 01:47:28,180 | 01:47:30,180 | 可是要跟委員報告 |
| 01:47:30,180 | 01:47:34,180 | 法官在整年的判決上萬件 |
| 01:47:34,180 | 01:47:36,180 | 他偶爾一兩件 |
| 01:47:36,180 | 01:47:38,180 | 沒錯是有瑕疵 |
| 01:47:38,180 | 01:47:40,180 | 我們可以因為這一兩件 |
| 01:47:40,180 | 01:47:42,180 | 就說他不良好嗎 |
| 01:47:42,180 | 01:47:44,180 | 其實這個是我們必須要慎重考慮 |
| 01:47:44,180 | 01:47:46,180 | 像我常開玩笑講說 |
| 01:47:46,180 | 01:47:48,180 | 吃燒餅偶爾就會掉一兩粒芝麻 |
| 01:47:48,180 | 01:47:52,180 | 除非委員提到的那種行為錯誤 |
| 01:47:52,180 | 01:47:54,180 | 對像一些言行不檢 |
| 01:47:54,180 | 01:47:56,180 | 有封禁為師 |
| 01:47:56,180 | 01:47:58,180 | 或有什麼性騷 |
| 01:47:58,180 | 01:48:00,180 | 霸凌的這些司法人員 |
| 01:48:00,180 | 01:48:02,180 | 像這樣子的法官 |
| 01:48:02,180 | 01:48:04,180 | 你們是不是 |
| 01:48:04,180 | 01:48:06,180 | 一定都是送平奸 |
| 01:48:06,180 | 01:48:08,180 | 我想那一種法官 |
| 01:48:08,180 | 01:48:12,180 | 我們司法院也絕對不會讓他存在 |
| 01:48:12,180 | 01:48:14,180 | 可是對於某些判決的瑕疵 |
| 01:48:14,180 | 01:48:16,180 | 真的很難說 |
| 01:48:16,180 | 01:48:18,180 | 他在處理上萬件的案件 |
| 01:48:18,180 | 01:48:20,180 | 有個兩三件 |
| 01:48:20,180 | 01:48:22,180 | 可能被非常上訴 |
| 01:48:22,180 | 01:48:24,180 | 我們看上次的 |
| 01:48:24,180 | 01:48:26,180 | 主要是針對所謂的 |
| 01:48:26,180 | 01:48:28,180 | 會放縱獨價的法官 |
| 01:48:28,180 | 01:48:30,180 | 那麼他們在 |
| 01:48:30,180 | 01:48:32,180 | 多次的獨價的 |
| 01:48:32,180 | 01:48:34,180 | 獨價的羈押裁定裡面 |
| 01:48:34,180 | 01:48:36,180 | 每一次他都是 |
| 01:48:36,180 | 01:48:38,180 | 像類似這種情況 |
| 01:48:38,180 | 01:48:40,180 | 其實也已經影響到社會觀 |
| 01:48:40,180 | 01:48:42,180 | 社會的觀感 |
| 01:48:42,180 | 01:48:44,180 | 那麼在你們植物評定法裡面 |
| 01:48:44,180 | 01:48:46,180 | 本來其實就有講 |
| 01:48:46,180 | 01:48:48,180 | 法官的言行或他所做的裁定判決 |
| 01:48:48,180 | 01:48:50,180 | 如果說有損害社會的觀感的話 |
| 01:48:50,180 | 01:48:52,180 | 有損害社會的司法信任的話 |
| 01:48:52,180 | 01:48:54,180 | 你們其實也是可以做檢討的 |
| 01:48:54,180 | 01:48:56,180 | 但是這個部分 |
| 01:48:56,180 | 01:48:58,180 | 其實我沒有看到司法院 |
| 01:48:58,180 | 01:49:00,180 | 對這個議題有更深入的 |
| 01:49:00,180 | 01:49:02,180 | 反思 |
| 01:49:02,180 | 01:49:04,180 | 本期當然今天時間有限 |
| 01:49:04,180 | 01:49:06,180 | 我希望是不是 |
| 01:49:06,180 | 01:49:08,180 | 可以請秘書長 |
| 01:49:08,180 | 01:49:10,180 | 可以就植物評定的部分 |
| 01:49:10,180 | 01:49:12,180 | 你們也可以再去做檢討 |
| 01:49:12,180 | 01:49:14,180 | 如果沒有涉及到 |
| 01:49:14,180 | 01:49:16,180 | 什麼核心我們絕對檢討 |
| 01:49:16,180 | 01:49:18,180 | 那當然了植物評定法 |
| 01:49:18,180 | 01:49:20,180 | 不會涉及到審判核心 |
| 01:49:20,180 | 01:49:22,180 | 但是與司法人員他的行為 |
| 01:49:22,180 | 01:49:24,180 | 舉止還有他的多次的判決 |
| 01:49:24,180 | 01:49:26,180 | 可能都已經影響到 |
| 01:49:26,180 | 01:49:28,180 | 社會觀感的時候 |
| 01:49:28,180 | 01:49:30,180 | 我覺得這個部分其實可以進行檢討的 |
| 01:49:30,180 | 01:49:32,180 | 可是如果判決是審判核心 |
| 01:49:32,180 | 01:49:34,180 | 真的要請委員包涵 |
| 01:49:34,180 | 01:49:36,180 | 好OK好那就先這樣好謝謝 |
| 01:49:36,180 | 01:49:38,180 | 好謝謝翁委員 |
| 01:49:46,180 | 01:49:48,180 | 好接下來我們 |
| 01:49:48,180 | 01:49:50,180 | 有請審發會委員發言 |
| 01:49:58,180 | 01:50:00,180 | 主席我們請 |
| 01:50:00,180 | 01:50:02,180 | 高秘書長 |
| 01:50:02,180 | 01:50:04,180 | 有請高秘書長 |
| 01:50:06,180 | 01:50:08,180 | 好秘書長早 |
| 01:50:08,180 | 01:50:10,180 | 我們今天這個排了 |
| 01:50:10,180 | 01:50:12,180 | 委員會排了這個十六個法案 |
| 01:50:12,180 | 01:50:14,180 | 基本上就是 |
| 01:50:14,180 | 01:50:16,180 | 一個法院組織法 |
| 01:50:16,180 | 01:50:18,180 | 跟四個專業法院的組織法 |
| 01:50:18,180 | 01:50:20,180 | 大概就是這一些 |
| 01:50:20,180 | 01:50:22,180 | 那這有十六個法案 |
| 01:50:22,180 | 01:50:24,180 | 但是裡面就獨缺 |
| 01:50:24,180 | 01:50:26,180 | 我們司法院的版本 |
| 01:50:26,180 | 01:50:28,180 | 我們的版本到昨天 |
| 01:50:28,180 | 01:50:30,180 | 八月三號送進來了 |
| 01:50:30,180 | 01:50:32,180 | 就昨天送到理法院 |
| 01:50:32,180 | 01:50:34,180 | 終於 |
| 01:50:34,180 | 01:50:36,180 | 千物萬幻 |
| 01:50:36,180 | 01:50:38,180 | 所以這個變成 |
| 01:50:38,180 | 01:50:40,180 | 所以會變成我們今天列的案子 |
| 01:50:40,180 | 01:50:42,180 | 沒有司法院的版本 |
| 01:50:42,180 | 01:50:44,180 | 那我們希望說這個我們 |
| 01:50:44,180 | 01:50:46,180 | 從現在未來真的進入 |
| 01:50:46,180 | 01:50:48,180 | 組織法討論的時候能夠納入 |
| 01:50:48,180 | 01:50:50,180 | 司法院的版本一併討論 |
| 01:50:50,180 | 01:50:52,180 | 不過我看這十六個案子大致上 |
| 01:50:52,180 | 01:50:54,180 | 其實大家的方向都滿一致 |
| 01:50:54,180 | 01:50:56,180 | 跟司法院的版本 |
| 01:50:56,180 | 01:50:58,180 | 就是有一些部分的差距 |
| 01:50:58,180 | 01:51:00,180 | 差別但是基本上的方向 |
| 01:51:00,180 | 01:51:02,180 | 都很一致 |
| 01:51:02,180 | 01:51:04,180 | 這次這個五個 |
| 01:51:04,180 | 01:51:06,180 | 法院組織法的這個 |
| 01:51:06,180 | 01:51:08,180 | 的草案裡面大概 |
| 01:51:08,180 | 01:51:10,180 | 就是三個重點 |
| 01:51:10,180 | 01:51:12,180 | 第一個就是剛剛大家 |
| 01:51:12,180 | 01:51:14,180 | 討論很多的就是有關於書記官的質等 |
| 01:51:14,180 | 01:51:16,180 | 跟這個見證 |
| 01:51:16,180 | 01:51:18,180 | 原則的這個比例 |
| 01:51:18,180 | 01:51:20,180 | 提高這是第一個重點 |
| 01:51:20,180 | 01:51:22,180 | 第二個就是有關於 |
| 01:51:22,180 | 01:51:24,180 | 法警的這個主管的質等 |
| 01:51:24,180 | 01:51:26,180 | 跟法警執勤的權限 |
| 01:51:26,180 | 01:51:28,180 | 這大概是第二個方向 |
| 01:51:28,180 | 01:51:30,180 | 第三個就是有關 |
| 01:51:30,180 | 01:51:32,180 | 違反法庭秩序的這個分級 |
| 01:51:32,180 | 01:51:34,180 | 的處罰機制 |
| 01:51:34,180 | 01:51:36,180 | 大概我看這次大概就是這三個部分 |
| 01:51:36,180 | 01:51:38,180 | 所以我就這三個部分一個一個來請 |
| 01:51:38,180 | 01:51:40,180 | 裡面這個大方向 |
| 01:51:40,180 | 01:51:42,180 | 我們都肯定了這個基本上這個就是 |
| 01:51:42,180 | 01:51:44,180 | 這個改革的方向 |
| 01:51:44,180 | 01:51:46,180 | 是值得肯定的而且他是 |
| 01:51:46,180 | 01:51:48,180 | 希望能夠讓這個司法 |
| 01:51:48,180 | 01:51:50,180 | 校能跟安全維護 |
| 01:51:50,180 | 01:51:52,180 | 還有這個人民的訴訟權利能夠同步提升 |
| 01:51:52,180 | 01:51:54,180 | 但是裡面有一些 |
| 01:51:54,180 | 01:51:56,180 | 有一些這個小小的問題 |
| 01:51:56,180 | 01:51:58,180 | 我想應該請這個 |
| 01:51:58,180 | 01:52:00,180 | 我們司法院這邊要說 |
| 01:52:00,180 | 01:52:02,180 | 比較說明比較清楚一點 |
| 01:52:02,180 | 01:52:04,180 | 這個我們事實上在 |
| 01:52:04,180 | 01:52:06,180 | 今年的5月4號 |
| 01:52:06,180 | 01:52:08,180 | 我們就在本委員會 |
| 01:52:08,180 | 01:52:10,180 | 在司法院的預算審查的時候 |
| 01:52:10,180 | 01:52:12,180 | 那時候本席就針對這個書記官的 |
| 01:52:12,180 | 01:52:14,180 | 包括質等調整包括書記官 |
| 01:52:14,180 | 01:52:16,180 | 的這個這個工作壓力 |
| 01:52:16,180 | 01:52:18,180 | 缺額的問題那時候跟 |
| 01:52:18,180 | 01:52:20,180 | 跟秘書長我們有進行過討論 |
| 01:52:20,180 | 01:52:22,180 | 那這個 |
| 01:52:22,180 | 01:52:24,180 | 這個那時候 |
| 01:52:24,180 | 01:52:26,180 | 討論重點就是說一方面 |
| 01:52:26,180 | 01:52:28,180 | 我們今年有調整這個書記官的這個 |
| 01:52:28,180 | 01:52:30,180 | 這個加級 |
| 01:52:30,180 | 01:52:32,180 | 書記官加級調整三成 |
| 01:52:32,180 | 01:52:34,180 | 那這個 |
| 01:52:34,180 | 01:52:36,180 | 我們目前的這個 |
| 01:52:36,180 | 01:52:38,180 | 書記官的這個缺 |
| 01:52:38,180 | 01:52:40,180 | 面對的案件以新北地方法院為例 |
| 01:52:40,180 | 01:52:42,180 | 這個一個 |
| 01:52:42,180 | 01:52:44,180 | 平均一個法官要面對1300 |
| 01:52:44,180 | 01:52:46,180 | 件案子這個實在是 |
| 01:52:46,180 | 01:52:48,180 | 壓力非常大 |
| 01:52:48,180 | 01:52:50,180 | 就是說我們要有兩個方向 |
| 01:52:50,180 | 01:52:52,180 | 第一個就是法院組織法修法就是我們這一次 |
| 01:52:52,180 | 01:52:54,180 | 所以終於 |
| 01:52:54,180 | 01:52:56,180 | 司法院的案子送到立法院來 |
| 01:52:56,180 | 01:52:58,180 | 這是法院組織法才會第二個 |
| 01:52:58,180 | 01:53:00,180 | 談了一個重點就是說除了 |
| 01:53:00,180 | 01:53:02,180 | 法院組織法之外另外 |
| 01:53:02,180 | 01:53:04,180 | 在刑事訴訟法裡面有關於 |
| 01:53:04,180 | 01:53:06,180 | 減輕書記官的工作負荷是 |
| 01:53:06,180 | 01:53:08,180 | 要修訂刑事訴訟法 |
| 01:53:08,180 | 01:53:10,180 | 要修訂刑事訴訟法有關 |
| 01:53:10,180 | 01:53:12,180 | 這個放寬這些筆錄製作方式 |
| 01:53:12,180 | 01:53:14,180 | 減輕這個書記官的這些 |
| 01:53:14,180 | 01:53:16,180 | 負荷那時候這個 |
| 01:53:16,180 | 01:53:18,180 | 秘書長同意 |
| 01:53:18,180 | 01:53:20,180 | 所以在這個我看我們 |
| 01:53:20,180 | 01:53:22,180 | 在4月23號的時候 |
| 01:53:22,180 | 01:53:24,180 | 我們司法院就通過了這個 |
| 01:53:24,180 | 01:53:26,180 | 這個刑事訴訟法的相關 |
| 01:53:26,180 | 01:53:28,180 | 條文的修正 |
| 01:53:28,180 | 01:53:30,180 | 現在的進度 |
| 01:53:30,180 | 01:53:32,180 | 那個行政院會選中 |
| 01:53:32,180 | 01:53:34,180 | 行政院會選中 |
| 01:53:34,180 | 01:53:36,180 | 有沒有了解為什麼我們 |
| 01:53:36,180 | 01:53:38,180 | 4月送到現在已經8月 |
| 01:53:38,180 | 01:53:40,180 | 的為什麼還在會選中 |
| 01:53:40,180 | 01:53:42,180 | 有什麼樣的 |
| 01:53:42,180 | 01:53:44,180 | 你們有去了解有什麼樣的 |
| 01:53:44,180 | 01:53:46,180 | 我們是積極的跟他們協商 |
| 01:53:46,180 | 01:53:48,180 | 原因 |
| 01:53:48,180 | 01:53:50,180 | 我們已經開會 |
| 01:53:50,180 | 01:53:52,180 | 開會兩次 |
| 01:53:52,180 | 01:53:54,180 | 那原因在哪裡為什麼會 |
| 01:53:54,180 | 01:53:56,180 | 他們還是沒有協商完畢 |
| 01:53:56,180 | 01:53:58,180 | 沒有什麼就是還沒有結束 |
| 01:53:58,180 | 01:54:00,180 | 大家有開會 |
| 01:54:00,180 | 01:54:02,180 | 有開會開會 |
| 01:54:02,180 | 01:54:04,180 | 過程有什麼 |
| 01:54:04,180 | 01:54:06,180 | 比較重大的 |
| 01:54:06,180 | 01:54:08,180 | 爭執點爭執點嗎 |
| 01:54:08,180 | 01:54:10,180 | 為什麼會這麼久 |
| 01:54:10,180 | 01:54:12,180 | 我們這次的刑事訴訟的 |
| 01:54:12,180 | 01:54:14,180 | 修法最重要是要 |
| 01:54:14,180 | 01:54:16,180 | 減輕法官跟數據官負擔的 |
| 01:54:16,180 | 01:54:18,180 | 簡化判決 |
| 01:54:18,180 | 01:54:20,180 | 法務部稍微有點意見 |
| 01:54:20,180 | 01:54:22,180 | 法務部有意見是不是 |
| 01:54:22,180 | 01:54:24,180 | 好這個部分 |
| 01:54:24,180 | 01:54:26,180 | 我希望說這個盡快打完溝通 |
| 01:54:26,180 | 01:54:28,180 | 因為我們今天這個法院 |
| 01:54:28,180 | 01:54:30,180 | 處置法這邊如果說我們開始 |
| 01:54:30,180 | 01:54:32,180 | 審查那未來很快的時間內 |
| 01:54:32,180 | 01:54:34,180 | 我們能夠讓他通過但是我們 |
| 01:54:34,180 | 01:54:36,180 | 刑事訴訟法修正你沒有去降低 |
| 01:54:36,180 | 01:54:38,180 | 這些法官數據官的他的工作 |
| 01:54:38,180 | 01:54:40,180 | 實際這個工作負荷的話 |
| 01:54:40,180 | 01:54:42,180 | 這個可能對於現在 |
| 01:54:42,180 | 01:54:44,180 | 目前解決這個 |
| 01:54:44,180 | 01:54:46,180 | 數據官的這些缺額問題 |
| 01:54:46,180 | 01:54:48,180 | 恐怕還是沒有辦法 |
| 01:54:48,180 | 01:54:50,180 | 全面的解決 |
| 01:54:50,180 | 01:54:52,180 | 第二個就是我們 |
| 01:54:52,180 | 01:54:54,180 | 這個數據官的這些 |
| 01:54:54,180 | 01:54:56,180 | 我提另外一個小點 |
| 01:54:56,180 | 01:54:58,180 | 就是說我們除了 |
| 01:54:58,180 | 01:55:00,180 | 這個修法之外 |
| 01:55:00,180 | 01:55:02,180 | 我們另外同步的有關於這個 |
| 01:55:02,180 | 01:55:04,180 | 數據官的考試的法制 |
| 01:55:04,180 | 01:55:06,180 | 這個司法人員 |
| 01:55:06,180 | 01:55:08,180 | 任用條例裡面第18條第49條 |
| 01:55:08,180 | 01:55:10,180 | 其實他都已經跟現實都已經 |
| 01:55:10,180 | 01:55:12,180 | 脫節了這部分我覺得 |
| 01:55:12,180 | 01:55:14,180 | 應該要同步的修改 |
| 01:55:14,180 | 01:55:16,180 | 像是這個我們第18條說 |
| 01:55:16,180 | 01:55:18,180 | 委任數據官因據左列資格 |
| 01:55:18,180 | 01:55:20,180 | 任用這個他裡面的 |
| 01:55:20,180 | 01:55:22,180 | 第一項經這個普通考試 |
| 01:55:22,180 | 01:55:24,180 | 法院數據官考試及格者 |
| 01:55:24,180 | 01:55:26,180 | 現在已經沒有這個所謂普通考試 |
| 01:55:26,180 | 01:55:28,180 | 這個法院數據官考試 |
| 01:55:28,180 | 01:55:30,180 | 現在都已經是司法特考 |
| 01:55:30,180 | 01:55:32,180 | 四等禁用了 |
| 01:55:32,180 | 01:55:34,180 | 所以這部分我們這個 |
| 01:55:34,180 | 01:55:36,180 | 司法人員任用條例18條還擺在那裡 |
| 01:55:36,180 | 01:55:38,180 | 都沒有去修改這個部分 |
| 01:55:38,180 | 01:55:40,180 | 第一個我覺得應該要 |
| 01:55:40,180 | 01:55:42,180 | 同步修正 |
| 01:55:42,180 | 01:55:44,180 | 另外第19條這個 |
| 01:55:44,180 | 01:55:46,180 | 數據官的任用資格有關 |
| 01:55:46,180 | 01:55:48,180 | 這個鑑任職法院 |
| 01:55:48,180 | 01:55:50,180 | 數據官升任考試現在這個都已經整併成 |
| 01:55:50,180 | 01:55:52,180 | 司法行政考試了 |
| 01:55:52,180 | 01:55:54,180 | 所以這個法條都應該要做同步的修正 |
| 01:55:54,180 | 01:55:56,180 | 好不好這個部分我希望說 |
| 01:55:56,180 | 01:55:58,180 | 說這個 |
| 01:55:58,180 | 01:56:00,180 | 我們制度的改革 |
| 01:56:00,180 | 01:56:02,180 | 我們要全面 |
| 01:56:02,180 | 01:56:04,180 | 全面的改不要說留下一個 |
| 01:56:04,180 | 01:56:06,180 | 任用法制還是留在 |
| 01:56:06,180 | 01:56:08,180 | 舊制這個是 |
| 01:56:08,180 | 01:56:10,180 | 希望能夠修正好 |
| 01:56:10,180 | 01:56:12,180 | 數據官部分到這裡那接下來 |
| 01:56:12,180 | 01:56:14,180 | 來談這個法警法警的部分 |
| 01:56:14,180 | 01:56:16,180 | 事實上我們在也是本委員會 |
| 01:56:16,180 | 01:56:18,180 | 3月30號我們就那時候 |
| 01:56:18,180 | 01:56:20,180 | 有排一個專案報告就是有關 |
| 01:56:20,180 | 01:56:22,180 | 法院安全秩序的維護跟 |
| 01:56:22,180 | 01:56:24,180 | 法警職權的行使那個時候我大概 |
| 01:56:24,180 | 01:56:26,180 | 就在這裡也是跟我們 |
| 01:56:26,180 | 01:56:28,180 | 秘書長就我們這個法警 |
| 01:56:28,180 | 01:56:30,180 | 職權的行使 |
| 01:56:30,180 | 01:56:32,180 | 他的法制依據 |
| 01:56:32,180 | 01:56:34,180 | 就在法院組織法裡面那就是這一次 |
| 01:56:34,180 | 01:56:36,180 | 我們要修法的 |
| 01:56:36,180 | 01:56:38,180 | 一個重要的 |
| 01:56:38,180 | 01:56:40,180 | 地方那這次修法 |
| 01:56:40,180 | 01:56:42,180 | 基本上肯定那但是裡面有一個很特別的 |
| 01:56:42,180 | 01:56:44,180 | 我就是注意到我們司法院版本 |
| 01:56:44,180 | 01:56:46,180 | 裡面就是我們過去 |
| 01:56:46,180 | 01:56:48,180 | 有關法警執行職務 |
| 01:56:48,180 | 01:56:50,180 | 的這個相關的法律依據 |
| 01:56:50,180 | 01:56:52,180 | 是按照法院組織法第23條 |
| 01:56:52,180 | 01:56:54,180 | 舊法原法23條第三項 |
| 01:56:54,180 | 01:56:56,180 | 其管理辦法由 |
| 01:56:56,180 | 01:56:58,180 | 司法院會同行政院定制 |
| 01:56:58,180 | 01:57:00,180 | 那這個管理辦法授權之後 |
| 01:57:00,180 | 01:57:02,180 | 第69條這個檢查機關 |
| 01:57:02,180 | 01:57:04,180 | 的準用是第69條 |
| 01:57:04,180 | 01:57:06,180 | 那這個依據這第23條 |
| 01:57:06,180 | 01:57:08,180 | 第三項他授權的管理辦法 |
| 01:57:08,180 | 01:57:10,180 | 就是我們的法警管理辦法 |
| 01:57:10,180 | 01:57:12,180 | 法警管理辦法 |
| 01:57:12,180 | 01:57:14,180 | 那法警管理辦法之後再授權 |
| 01:57:14,180 | 01:57:16,180 | 第二條再授權適用相關法令的時候 |
| 01:57:16,180 | 01:57:18,180 | 再訂定這台灣高檢署 |
| 01:57:18,180 | 01:57:20,180 | 還有這個另外這個高等法院 |
| 01:57:20,180 | 01:57:22,180 | 各級法院的這些注意事項 |
| 01:57:22,180 | 01:57:24,180 | 再授權再注意事項 |
| 01:57:24,180 | 01:57:26,180 | 那我注意到這個 |
| 01:57:26,180 | 01:57:28,180 | 我注意到這個點我們這次的修法 |
| 01:57:28,180 | 01:57:30,180 | 有一個很重要的一個點就是我們把 |
| 01:57:30,180 | 01:57:32,180 | 原本現行說用23條 |
| 01:57:32,180 | 01:57:34,180 | 第三項授權 |
| 01:57:34,180 | 01:57:36,180 | 那檢查機關由69條 |
| 01:57:36,180 | 01:57:38,180 | 來準用你們這次把改成 |
| 01:57:38,180 | 01:57:40,180 | 這個這個院檢分流了 |
| 01:57:40,180 | 01:57:42,180 | 院檢分流了 |
| 01:57:42,180 | 01:57:44,180 | 就是有關法警管理 |
| 01:57:44,180 | 01:57:46,180 | 辦法你們這個 |
| 01:57:46,180 | 01:57:48,180 | 這個法院的部分 |
| 01:57:48,180 | 01:57:50,180 | 你們就還是變成你們 |
| 01:57:50,180 | 01:57:52,180 | 把那個原的第三項從這個 |
| 01:57:52,180 | 01:57:54,180 | 23條之3 |
| 01:57:54,180 | 01:57:56,180 | 你們把它拉出來到變成23條之4 |
| 01:57:56,180 | 01:57:58,180 | 訂了這個管理辦法 |
| 01:57:58,180 | 01:58:00,180 | 原本以前要會同行政院 |
| 01:58:00,180 | 01:58:02,180 | 訂之你們把行政院拿掉了 |
| 01:58:02,180 | 01:58:04,180 | 也就是說你們法院的部分 |
| 01:58:04,180 | 01:58:06,180 | 你們就司法院自己訂 |
| 01:58:06,180 | 01:58:08,180 | 對不對在23條之4 |
| 01:58:08,180 | 01:58:10,180 | 檢查機關的部分 |
| 01:58:10,180 | 01:58:12,180 | 你們原本用69條 |
| 01:58:12,180 | 01:58:14,180 | 準用你們現在把它 |
| 01:58:14,180 | 01:58:16,180 | 用69條第四項 |
| 01:58:16,180 | 01:58:18,180 | 要由行政院 |
| 01:58:18,180 | 01:58:20,180 | 或法務部現在兩個案子 |
| 01:58:20,180 | 01:58:22,180 | 行政院訂之或法務部 |
| 01:58:22,180 | 01:58:24,180 | 就是檢查機關的你們行政體系 |
| 01:58:24,180 | 01:58:26,180 | 自己去訂 |
| 01:58:26,180 | 01:58:28,180 | 法院的部分我自己來訂 |
| 01:58:28,180 | 01:58:30,180 | 有關於你們把法警這個部分 |
| 01:58:30,180 | 01:58:32,180 | 管理這個在院檢 |
| 01:58:32,180 | 01:58:34,180 | 這樣子做分流你們的考量 |
| 01:58:34,180 | 01:58:36,180 | 用意是什麼因為他們這個 |
| 01:58:36,180 | 01:58:38,180 | 這個職務上面有具有相當的 |
| 01:58:38,180 | 01:58:40,180 | 共通性 |
| 01:58:40,180 | 01:58:42,180 | 他們這些刑務標準訓練跟權益保障 |
| 01:58:42,180 | 01:58:44,180 | 是不是未來會變成不一致 |
| 01:58:44,180 | 01:58:46,180 | 這個部分你們把這個 |
| 01:58:46,180 | 01:58:48,180 | 法警管理辦法院檢 |
| 01:58:48,180 | 01:58:50,180 | 分流你們的考量是什麼 |
| 01:58:50,180 | 01:58:52,180 | 跟委員報告 |
| 01:58:52,180 | 01:58:54,180 | 福利什麼這個執政什麼大家都一致 |
| 01:58:54,180 | 01:58:56,180 | 因為這是管理辦法 |
| 01:58:56,180 | 01:58:58,180 | 對 沒錯 |
| 01:58:58,180 | 01:59:00,180 | 院檢有共通性 |
| 01:59:00,180 | 01:59:02,180 | 可是也有個別的特殊性 |
| 01:59:02,180 | 01:59:04,180 | 法院是公開法庭 |
| 01:59:04,180 | 01:59:06,180 | 那個檢察署 |
| 01:59:06,180 | 01:59:08,180 | 他們偵查是不一定公開 |
| 01:59:08,180 | 01:59:10,180 | 其實光這個的 |
| 01:59:10,180 | 01:59:12,180 | 那個差別性其實在 |
| 01:59:12,180 | 01:59:14,180 | 法警的管理就有不一樣的地方 |
| 01:59:14,180 | 01:59:16,180 | 所以老實說 |
| 01:59:16,180 | 01:59:18,180 | 因為管理辦法是 |
| 01:59:18,180 | 01:59:20,180 | 真正實務什麼 |
| 01:59:20,180 | 01:59:22,180 | 任務的執行 |
| 01:59:22,180 | 01:59:24,180 | 由各司法院 |
| 01:59:24,180 | 01:59:26,180 | 行政院跟法務部 |
| 01:59:26,180 | 01:59:28,180 | 自行就法警 |
| 01:59:28,180 | 01:59:30,180 | 特殊狀況在管理辦法 |
| 01:59:30,180 | 01:59:32,180 | 仔細的寫 |
| 01:59:32,180 | 01:59:34,180 | 早期的我們只寫管理辦法 |
| 01:59:34,180 | 01:59:36,180 | 可是對於法警 |
| 01:59:36,180 | 01:59:38,180 | 有些是管理喔可是不應該 |
| 01:59:38,180 | 01:59:40,180 | 對這是原本的管理辦法是 |
| 01:59:40,180 | 01:59:42,180 | 檢察機關是直接准用法院的 |
| 01:59:42,180 | 01:59:44,180 | 但你們現在把它分開來了 |
| 01:59:44,180 | 01:59:46,180 | 對因為所以我們現在 |
| 01:59:46,180 | 01:59:48,180 | 只是在法警的職權是准用 |
| 01:59:48,180 | 01:59:50,180 | 可是以前法警職權 |
| 01:59:50,180 | 01:59:52,180 | 沒有規定所以欠缺法源依據 |
| 01:59:52,180 | 01:59:54,180 | 這是把它規定清楚 |
| 01:59:54,180 | 01:59:56,180 | 再過來是法警 |
| 01:59:56,180 | 01:59:58,180 | 他的管理已經不是職權了喔 |
| 01:59:58,180 | 02:00:00,180 | 對管理原本是 |
| 02:00:00,180 | 02:00:02,180 | 授權嘛 |
| 02:00:02,180 | 02:00:04,180 | 因為那個授權不足 |
| 02:00:04,180 | 02:00:06,180 | 那你現在變成說 |
| 02:00:06,180 | 02:00:08,180 | 司法院自己授權 |
| 02:00:08,180 | 02:00:10,180 | 然後檢察機關自己再授權 |
| 02:00:10,180 | 02:00:12,180 | 分成兩部管理辦法 |
| 02:00:12,180 | 02:00:14,180 | 因為法警管理絕對 |
| 02:00:14,180 | 02:00:16,180 | 有不同性 |
| 02:00:16,180 | 02:00:18,180 | 這個部分喔 |
| 02:00:18,180 | 02:00:20,180 | 這個我想是這次修法 |
| 02:00:20,180 | 02:00:22,180 | 一個很重要的重點 |
| 02:00:22,180 | 02:00:24,180 | 所以我覺得要說明清楚 |
| 02:00:24,180 | 02:00:26,180 | 除了這個以外你其實授權了 |
| 02:00:26,180 | 02:00:28,180 | 現在檢察機關由行政 |
| 02:00:28,180 | 02:00:30,180 | 體系自己來制定的時候 |
| 02:00:30,180 | 02:00:32,180 | 你們司法院的版本跟行政院的版本 |
| 02:00:32,180 | 02:00:34,180 | 也不一樣你們司法院版本是 |
| 02:00:34,180 | 02:00:36,180 | 是由行政院定資 |
| 02:00:36,180 | 02:00:38,180 | 但是行政院的版本是由法務部 |
| 02:00:38,180 | 02:00:40,180 | 定資 |
| 02:00:40,180 | 02:00:42,180 | 那我們尊重 |
| 02:00:42,180 | 02:00:44,180 | 因為我們行政院嘛 |
| 02:00:44,180 | 02:00:46,180 | 所以這邊應該就行政院嘛 |
| 02:00:46,180 | 02:00:48,180 | 那他要改為法務部 |
| 02:00:48,180 | 02:00:50,180 | 我們尊重 |
| 02:00:50,180 | 02:00:52,180 | 那這個法 |
| 02:00:52,180 | 02:00:54,180 | 我想這個院檢的這個 |
| 02:00:54,180 | 02:00:56,180 | 法警的這個規範授權 |
| 02:00:56,180 | 02:00:58,180 | 你們把它分流這個部分我想是 |
| 02:00:58,180 | 02:01:00,180 | 未來在審查的時候會是 |
| 02:01:00,180 | 02:01:02,180 | 我們必須要說明清楚為什麼 |
| 02:01:02,180 | 02:01:04,180 | 那這樣子的院檢分流因為 |
| 02:01:04,180 | 02:01:06,180 | 我們現在也還沒有 |
| 02:01:06,180 | 02:01:08,180 | 收到相關的這些就是說到底 |
| 02:01:08,180 | 02:01:10,180 | 這個分流之後他會有什麼樣影響 |
| 02:01:10,180 | 02:01:12,180 | 那這次法庭法庭的法案 |
| 02:01:12,180 | 02:01:14,180 | 就是由行政院跟檢的法警 |
| 02:01:14,180 | 02:01:16,180 | 權益上面他們未來的這些訓練 |
| 02:01:16,180 | 02:01:18,180 | 會不會有影響 |
| 02:01:18,180 | 02:01:20,180 | 好那最後一個部分就是 |
| 02:01:20,180 | 02:01:22,180 | 我們這次修法的第三個部分 |
| 02:01:22,180 | 02:01:24,180 | 就是有關於這個 |
| 02:01:24,180 | 02:01:26,180 | 這個 |
| 02:01:26,180 | 02:01:28,180 | 這個妨礙法庭秩序 |
| 02:01:28,180 | 02:01:30,180 | 我們這個妨礙法庭秩序的部分 |
| 02:01:30,180 | 02:01:32,180 | 我們這次也做了修改 |
| 02:01:32,180 | 02:01:34,180 | 過去妨礙法庭秩序是 |
| 02:01:34,180 | 02:01:36,180 | 經制止不聽就直接進入刑罰 |
| 02:01:36,180 | 02:01:38,180 | 直接由刑事處罰 |
| 02:01:38,180 | 02:01:40,180 | 來進行那現在這次修法變成 |
| 02:01:40,180 | 02:01:42,180 | 改成罰緩先行 |
| 02:01:42,180 | 02:01:44,180 | 罰緩先行 |
| 02:01:44,180 | 02:01:46,180 | 就是說你第一次就是 |
| 02:01:46,180 | 02:01:48,180 | 罰緩那在一年內再犯才進入刑罰 |
| 02:01:48,180 | 02:01:50,180 | 你們這個 |
| 02:01:50,180 | 02:01:52,180 | 這個修法的考量是怎麼樣 |
| 02:01:52,180 | 02:01:54,180 | 跟委員報告 |
| 02:01:54,180 | 02:01:56,180 | 先行法 |
| 02:01:56,180 | 02:01:58,180 | 直接進行法 |
| 02:01:58,180 | 02:02:00,180 | 直接去行法 |
| 02:02:00,180 | 02:02:02,180 | 會造成時間 |
| 02:02:02,180 | 02:02:04,180 | 這個受 |
| 02:02:04,180 | 02:02:06,180 | 制止人 |
| 02:02:06,180 | 02:02:08,180 | 進行制止不聽 |
| 02:02:08,180 | 02:02:10,180 | 可是因為他直接進入刑法 |
| 02:02:10,180 | 02:02:12,180 | 他是一個冗長的程序 |
| 02:02:12,180 | 02:02:14,180 | 那現在我們改成這樣 |
| 02:02:14,180 | 02:02:16,180 | 是讓法官他馬上可以 |
| 02:02:16,180 | 02:02:18,180 | 刻意罰緩是可以立即 |
| 02:02:18,180 | 02:02:20,180 | 產生 |
| 02:02:20,180 | 02:02:22,180 | 這個一個嚇阻效用 |
| 02:02:22,180 | 02:02:24,180 | 其實最重要的目的是 |
| 02:02:24,180 | 02:02:26,180 | 目的是這個就是讓法官 |
| 02:02:26,180 | 02:02:28,180 | 可以當庭 |
| 02:02:28,180 | 02:02:30,180 | 當庭就可以判罰 |
| 02:02:30,180 | 02:02:32,180 | 這部分我肯定 |
| 02:02:32,180 | 02:02:34,180 | 但是這裡面會有一個問題就是說 |
| 02:02:34,180 | 02:02:36,180 | 因為你們規定要進入刑罰 |
| 02:02:36,180 | 02:02:38,180 | 是要在一年內 |
| 02:02:38,180 | 02:02:40,180 | 再犯 |
| 02:02:40,180 | 02:02:42,180 | 你們這些相關的罰緩 |
| 02:02:42,180 | 02:02:44,180 | 的裁定紀錄 |
| 02:02:44,180 | 02:02:46,180 | 這個確定以後你們有什麼機關 |
| 02:02:46,180 | 02:02:48,180 | 來建置來保存來管理 |
| 02:02:48,180 | 02:02:50,180 | 讓我可以知道你這一次 |
| 02:02:50,180 | 02:02:52,180 | 的到底是不是再犯 |
| 02:02:52,180 | 02:02:54,180 | 這個當然一定我們會 |
| 02:02:54,180 | 02:02:56,180 | 建置一個系統 |
| 02:02:56,180 | 02:02:58,180 | 對法官太重要了一定要建置一個系統 |
| 02:02:58,180 | 02:03:00,180 | 讓這個被 |
| 02:03:00,180 | 02:03:02,180 | 當事人馬上呈現出 |
| 02:03:02,180 | 02:03:04,180 | 有這種狀況 |
| 02:03:04,180 | 02:03:06,180 | 這個系統要相配到 |
| 02:03:06,180 | 02:03:08,180 | 的建置 |
| 02:03:08,180 | 02:03:10,180 | 你會造成這個 |
| 02:03:10,180 | 02:03:12,180 | 有人被制止 |
| 02:03:12,180 | 02:03:14,180 | 有人被裁罰有人被移送 |
| 02:03:14,180 | 02:03:16,180 | 發生的小法律效果是不一樣的 |
| 02:03:16,180 | 02:03:18,180 | 一定要建置 |
| 02:03:18,180 | 02:03:20,180 | 那其他的更細節 |
| 02:03:20,180 | 02:03:22,180 | 的部分我希望未來我們在主條 |
| 02:03:22,180 | 02:03:24,180 | 討論的時候我剛所講幾個問題 |
| 02:03:24,180 | 02:03:26,180 | 我覺得我們這個司法院要把它 |
| 02:03:26,180 | 02:03:28,180 | 說清楚了好不好 |
| 02:03:28,180 | 02:03:30,180 | 好謝謝 |
| 02:03:30,180 | 02:03:32,180 | 謝謝陳委員 |
| 02:03:32,180 | 02:03:34,180 | 接下來我們有請莊瑞雄召委 |
| 02:03:34,180 | 02:03:36,180 | 來進行發言 |
| 02:03:46,180 | 02:03:48,180 | 謝謝主席有請我們司法院 |
| 02:03:48,180 | 02:03:50,180 | 高秘書長 |
| 02:03:50,180 | 02:03:52,180 | 請高秘書長 |
| 02:03:56,180 | 02:03:58,180 | 幾個問題來請教 |
| 02:03:58,180 | 02:04:00,180 | 上禮拜我看考試院 |
| 02:04:00,180 | 02:04:02,180 | 他也把這個 |
| 02:04:02,180 | 02:04:04,180 | 通過了司法院會賢的五部 |
| 02:04:04,180 | 02:04:06,180 | 組織法的一個宣傳草案 |
| 02:04:06,180 | 02:04:08,180 | 你們的當事 |
| 02:04:08,180 | 02:04:10,180 | 好像你們提出的時間比較晚吧 |
| 02:04:10,180 | 02:04:12,180 | 這一次的委員會裡面 |
| 02:04:12,180 | 02:04:14,180 | 你們的案子裡面好像就沒有列進來 |
| 02:04:14,180 | 02:04:16,180 | 因為8月3號才進來 |
| 02:04:18,180 | 02:04:20,180 | 昨天才進來行政院會賢 |
| 02:04:20,180 | 02:04:22,180 | 又送考試院會賢 |
| 02:04:22,180 | 02:04:24,180 | 所以8月3號送到貴院來了 |
| 02:04:24,180 | 02:04:26,180 | 但是還好啦 |
| 02:04:26,180 | 02:04:28,180 | 所以會賢的時間很久啦 |
| 02:04:28,180 | 02:04:30,180 | 所以至少有一個確定的時間 |
| 02:04:30,180 | 02:04:32,180 | 希望我們能夠快點推動 |
| 02:04:32,180 | 02:04:34,180 | 那我想 |
| 02:04:34,180 | 02:04:36,180 | 應該更值得來做一個關心的 |
| 02:04:36,180 | 02:04:38,180 | 就是說目前立法院裡面 |
| 02:04:38,180 | 02:04:40,180 | 也有多位委員提出修法的 |
| 02:04:40,180 | 02:04:42,180 | 一個版本 |
| 02:04:42,180 | 02:04:44,180 | 你十萬年的版本 |
| 02:04:44,180 | 02:04:46,180 | 你跟其他 |
| 02:04:46,180 | 02:04:48,180 | 其他委員所提出來的版本 |
| 02:04:48,180 | 02:04:50,180 | 你有跟他比較他想法的差異嗎 |
| 02:04:50,180 | 02:04:52,180 | 是有 |
| 02:04:52,180 | 02:04:54,180 | 你覺得怎麼樣 |
| 02:04:54,180 | 02:04:56,180 | 那在改革的重點 |
| 02:04:56,180 | 02:04:58,180 | 其實我們在司法法制委員會裡面 |
| 02:04:58,180 | 02:05:00,180 | 大家其實都蠻關心 |
| 02:05:00,180 | 02:05:02,180 | 你看你 |
| 02:05:02,180 | 02:05:04,180 | 書記官的一個職務的一個列等裡面 |
| 02:05:04,180 | 02:05:06,180 | 或者說是改善他們的一個 |
| 02:05:06,180 | 02:05:08,180 | 升遷的一個制度 |
| 02:05:08,180 | 02:05:10,180 | 關心的很久了 |
| 02:05:10,180 | 02:05:12,180 | 司法院也非常的一個關心 |
| 02:05:12,180 | 02:05:14,180 | 我看前面的委員提到在質詢的時候 |
| 02:05:14,180 | 02:05:16,180 | 在法警的部分 |
| 02:05:16,180 | 02:05:18,180 | 確實你如果法令 |
| 02:05:18,180 | 02:05:20,180 | 沒有一個明文給他去授權的話 |
| 02:05:20,180 | 02:05:22,180 | 那個很麻煩 |
| 02:05:22,180 | 02:05:24,180 | 所以你要提升法警的 |
| 02:05:24,180 | 02:05:26,180 | 整個質等 |
| 02:05:26,180 | 02:05:28,180 | 增設法警的小隊長 |
| 02:05:28,180 | 02:05:30,180 | 明確法律的一個授權 |
| 02:05:30,180 | 02:05:32,180 | 你說你法警到底你的職權你兌給他 |
| 02:05:32,180 | 02:05:34,180 | 把它補足法律上的一個依據 |
| 02:05:34,180 | 02:05:36,180 | 這個是對的 |
| 02:05:36,180 | 02:05:38,180 | 那如何去強化整個 |
| 02:05:38,180 | 02:05:40,180 | 安全的一個檢查的制度 |
| 02:05:40,180 | 02:05:42,180 | 這個在整個 |
| 02:05:42,180 | 02:05:44,180 | 我看這樣把它聽下來 |
| 02:05:44,180 | 02:05:46,180 | 我們司法法制委員會 |
| 02:05:46,180 | 02:05:48,180 | 對這塊其實大家都要跟你支持 |
| 02:05:48,180 | 02:05:50,180 | 歐委員在砍預算是砍得很狠的 |
| 02:05:50,180 | 02:05:52,180 | 可是對你們司法院算是很好的 |
| 02:05:52,180 | 02:05:54,180 | 你也真的要保護他 |
| 02:05:54,180 | 02:05:56,180 | 因為我一直認為 |
| 02:05:56,180 | 02:05:58,180 | 法院 |
| 02:05:58,180 | 02:06:00,180 | 像比如說我們在討論這個 |
| 02:06:00,180 | 02:06:02,180 | 書記官的問題 |
| 02:06:02,180 | 02:06:04,180 | 在討論法警的問題 |
| 02:06:04,180 | 02:06:06,180 | 其實都不是只有在談他們的待遇 |
| 02:06:06,180 | 02:06:08,180 | 就是要談說你 |
| 02:06:08,180 | 02:06:10,180 | 這些補足這些人力以後 |
| 02:06:10,180 | 02:06:12,180 | 不要讓人受忍 |
| 02:06:12,180 | 02:06:14,180 | 不要讓人做不來 |
| 02:06:14,180 | 02:06:16,180 | 其實最終的一個目的就是 |
| 02:06:16,180 | 02:06:18,180 | 這個法院都是人民在用 |
| 02:06:18,180 | 02:06:20,180 | 這個制度是要給老百姓用 |
| 02:06:20,180 | 02:06:22,180 | 讓老百姓接近這個法院的時候 |
| 02:06:22,180 | 02:06:24,180 | 大家覺得說 |
| 02:06:24,180 | 02:06:26,180 | 這個司法來講是很溫暖的 |
| 02:06:26,180 | 02:06:28,180 | 那個是可以接近性的 |
| 02:06:28,180 | 02:06:30,180 | 重點是在這個地方 |
| 02:06:30,180 | 02:06:32,180 | 所以這個部分我聽到你們 |
| 02:06:32,180 | 02:06:34,180 | 會先歸後 |
| 02:06:34,180 | 02:06:36,180 | 就趕快送進去 |
| 02:06:36,180 | 02:06:38,180 | 時間上其實有時候在 |
| 02:06:38,180 | 02:06:40,180 | 修法的過程裡面你們都很清楚 |
| 02:06:40,180 | 02:06:42,180 | 我不知道你們中間出現了什麼樣的一個環節 |
| 02:06:42,180 | 02:06:44,180 | 有時候速度 |
| 02:06:44,180 | 02:06:46,180 | 立法院既然要支持的話 |
| 02:06:46,180 | 02:06:48,180 | 再好好再加一把勁 |
| 02:06:48,180 | 02:06:50,180 | 另外我想要來請教 |
| 02:06:50,180 | 02:06:52,180 | 就是我們那個 |
| 02:06:52,180 | 02:06:54,180 | 我看應該是少年 |
| 02:06:54,180 | 02:06:56,180 | 聽到 |
| 02:06:56,180 | 02:06:58,180 | 聽到這裡 |
| 02:06:58,180 | 02:07:00,180 | 我看對於 |
| 02:07:00,180 | 02:07:02,180 | 這次法警除了傳統的戒護以外 |
| 02:07:02,180 | 02:07:04,180 | 的訓練以外 |
| 02:07:04,180 | 02:07:06,180 | 對於整個精神疾病的辨識 |
| 02:07:06,180 | 02:07:08,180 | 跟危機處理 |
| 02:07:08,180 | 02:07:10,180 | 非暴力這個部分 |
| 02:07:10,180 | 02:07:12,180 | 跟保護性約束的內容 |
| 02:07:12,180 | 02:07:14,180 | 要去建立一個完整的一個 |
| 02:07:14,180 | 02:07:16,180 | 訓練的一個內容 |
| 02:07:16,180 | 02:07:18,180 | 那我想這個部分其實 |
| 02:07:18,180 | 02:07:20,180 | 都肯定啦 |
| 02:07:20,180 | 02:07:22,180 | 因為你精神衛生法庭上路以後 |
| 02:07:22,180 | 02:07:24,180 | 但是我們也要問 |
| 02:07:24,180 | 02:07:26,180 | 你法警準備好了沒有 |
| 02:07:26,180 | 02:07:28,180 | 因為法警到這裡 |
| 02:07:28,180 | 02:07:30,180 | 我看桃園地院精神法庭 |
| 02:07:30,180 | 02:07:32,180 | 上次去考察完 |
| 02:07:32,180 | 02:07:34,180 | 那一句話確實聽了是 |
| 02:07:34,180 | 02:07:36,180 | 滿感動啦 |
| 02:07:36,180 | 02:07:38,180 | 就是說裡面的人是東須林 |
| 02:07:38,180 | 02:07:40,180 | 離開的是被理解的人 |
| 02:07:40,180 | 02:07:42,180 | 那個確實就是說 |
| 02:07:42,180 | 02:07:44,180 | 那我要去提醒的就是說 |
| 02:07:44,180 | 02:07:46,180 | 你整個法庭的設計 |
| 02:07:46,180 | 02:07:48,180 | 你把它去法庭化了 |
| 02:07:48,180 | 02:07:50,180 | 這個是可以肯定的 |
| 02:07:50,180 | 02:07:52,180 | 但是你危機處理的部分 |
| 02:07:52,180 | 02:07:54,180 | 要去訓練喔 |
| 02:07:54,180 | 02:07:56,180 | 我們一般在看精神衛生的事件裡面 |
| 02:07:56,180 | 02:07:58,180 | 常常會看它發生的 |
| 02:07:58,180 | 02:08:00,180 | 跟人家不同 |
| 02:08:00,180 | 02:08:02,180 | 跟一般人不同 |
| 02:08:02,180 | 02:08:04,180 | 精神上情緒上可能失控 |
| 02:08:04,180 | 02:08:06,180 | 可能會去致傷 |
| 02:08:06,180 | 02:08:08,180 | 可能會去傷害別人 |
| 02:08:08,180 | 02:08:10,180 | 或者說突發的攻擊 |
| 02:08:10,180 | 02:08:12,180 | 所以我要請教就是說 |
| 02:08:12,180 | 02:08:14,180 | 你們對於法警 |
| 02:08:14,180 | 02:08:16,180 | 是不是已經完成完整的一個訓練 |
| 02:08:16,180 | 02:08:18,180 | 譬如說 |
| 02:08:18,180 | 02:08:20,180 | 一般大家在講的 |
| 02:08:20,180 | 02:08:22,180 | 精神疾病的辨識 |
| 02:08:22,180 | 02:08:24,180 | 危機要怎麼處理 |
| 02:08:24,180 | 02:08:26,180 | 非暴力的介入 |
| 02:08:26,180 | 02:08:28,180 | 保護性的約束 |
| 02:08:28,180 | 02:08:30,180 | 跟醫療團體合作的部分 |
| 02:08:30,180 | 02:08:32,180 | 我不知道你們現在情形如何 |
| 02:08:32,180 | 02:08:34,180 | 來 聽長 |
| 02:08:34,180 | 02:08:36,180 | 謝謝委員的詢問 |
| 02:08:36,180 | 02:08:38,180 | 向委員報告 |
| 02:08:38,180 | 02:08:40,180 | 我們北中南三區 |
| 02:08:40,180 | 02:08:44,180 | 所承辦精神衛生法專家參選新制的法院 |
| 02:08:44,180 | 02:08:46,180 | 我們都 |
| 02:08:46,180 | 02:08:48,180 | 組成一個總指教官 |
| 02:08:48,180 | 02:08:50,180 | 就是兩位女法警 |
| 02:08:50,180 | 02:08:52,180 | 兩位男法警 |
| 02:08:52,180 | 02:08:54,180 | 一位至少是 |
| 02:08:54,180 | 02:08:56,180 | 副法警長 |
| 02:08:56,180 | 02:08:58,180 | 這五位我們已經洽請 |
| 02:08:58,180 | 02:09:00,180 | 急診醫學 |
| 02:09:00,180 | 02:09:02,180 | 這個學會 |
| 02:09:02,180 | 02:09:04,180 | 的一個緊急 |
| 02:09:04,180 | 02:09:06,180 | 保護病人的醫療小組 |
| 02:09:06,180 | 02:09:08,180 | 來專業訓練 |
| 02:09:08,180 | 02:09:10,180 | 現在分別在做 |
| 02:09:10,180 | 02:09:12,180 | 北中南三區專業訓練 |
| 02:09:12,180 | 02:09:14,180 | 那他來自於 |
| 02:09:14,180 | 02:09:18,180 | CRPD跟我國精神衛生法規定 |
| 02:09:18,180 | 02:09:20,180 | 病人他不是犯罪人 |
| 02:09:20,180 | 02:09:22,180 | 所以他到法庭 |
| 02:09:22,180 | 02:09:24,180 | 不可以用被告的方式 |
| 02:09:24,180 | 02:09:26,180 | 來介護 |
| 02:09:26,180 | 02:09:28,180 | 來用試用戒具 |
| 02:09:28,180 | 02:09:30,180 | 來試用電擊 |
| 02:09:30,180 | 02:09:32,180 | 或者是噴霧 |
| 02:09:32,180 | 02:09:34,180 | 他必須用醫療法所規定的 |
| 02:09:34,180 | 02:09:36,180 | 數代 |
| 02:09:36,180 | 02:09:38,180 | 數代又必須專業訓練 |
| 02:09:38,180 | 02:09:40,180 | 才會使用 |
| 02:09:40,180 | 02:09:42,180 | 數代又必須保護他生命安全 |
| 02:09:42,180 | 02:09:44,180 | 所以我們在我們的保護室 |
| 02:09:44,180 | 02:09:46,180 | 已經依照 |
| 02:09:46,180 | 02:09:48,180 | 精神醫學會給我們的協助 |
| 02:09:48,180 | 02:09:50,180 | 我們設置了 |
| 02:09:50,180 | 02:09:52,180 | 一個保護室裡面 |
| 02:09:52,180 | 02:09:54,180 | 可以使用數代的一個 |
| 02:09:54,180 | 02:09:56,180 | 地方 |
| 02:09:56,180 | 02:09:58,180 | 這些法警目前 |
| 02:09:58,180 | 02:10:00,180 | 我們規劃好在進行訓練 |
| 02:10:00,180 | 02:10:02,180 | 訓練完我們收集完 |
| 02:10:02,180 | 02:10:04,180 | 我們會再去學這個所謂 |
| 02:10:04,180 | 02:10:06,180 | 專門為精神衛生法病人保護的 |
| 02:10:06,180 | 02:10:08,180 | 使用數代的指引 |
| 02:10:08,180 | 02:10:10,180 | 跟手冊 |
| 02:10:10,180 | 02:10:12,180 | 然後等到這些專業的種子訓練完 |
| 02:10:12,180 | 02:10:14,180 | 我們會擴起到 |
| 02:10:14,180 | 02:10:16,180 | 一般法警都要長年教育訓練 |
| 02:10:16,180 | 02:10:18,180 | 這個是 |
| 02:10:18,180 | 02:10:20,180 | 非常重要的一環 |
| 02:10:20,180 | 02:10:22,180 | 謝謝委員關注這個議題 |
| 02:10:22,180 | 02:10:24,180 | 以上報告 |
| 02:10:24,180 | 02:10:26,180 | 但是這個人羞片 |
| 02:10:26,180 | 02:10:28,180 | 你們也必須要意識到一個問題 |
| 02:10:28,180 | 02:10:30,180 | 傳統的法警的訓練 |
| 02:10:30,180 | 02:10:32,180 | 跟我們現在 |
| 02:10:32,180 | 02:10:34,180 | 我們現在整個精神 |
| 02:10:34,180 | 02:10:36,180 | 疾病 |
| 02:10:36,180 | 02:10:38,180 | 這樣的一個法庭裡面所 |
| 02:10:38,180 | 02:10:40,180 | 佈置的法警我們先給他教育訓練 |
| 02:10:40,180 | 02:10:42,180 | 你看你給他訓練出來後 |
| 02:10:42,180 | 02:10:44,180 | 跟傳統法警已經都不一樣了 |
| 02:10:44,180 | 02:10:46,180 | 你那個代務的部分 |
| 02:10:46,180 | 02:10:48,180 | 跟他的職長的部分 |
| 02:10:48,180 | 02:10:50,180 | 你不覺得說你 |
| 02:10:50,180 | 02:10:52,180 | 訓練一波 |
| 02:10:52,180 | 02:10:54,180 | 讓你覺得是變精英出來後 |
| 02:10:54,180 | 02:10:56,180 | 我如果說 |
| 02:10:56,180 | 02:10:58,180 | 北三院跟其他你們兩個指標的 |
| 02:10:58,180 | 02:11:00,180 | 這個 |
| 02:11:00,180 | 02:11:02,180 | 這幾個法院 |
| 02:11:02,180 | 02:11:04,180 | 可能是因為案件會比較多 |
| 02:11:04,180 | 02:11:06,180 | 你們人力的問題 |
| 02:11:06,180 | 02:11:08,180 | 有這麼生來 |
| 02:11:08,180 | 02:11:10,180 | 你給他訓練出來後 |
| 02:11:10,180 | 02:11:12,180 | 讓你們教育的後訓練出來 |
| 02:11:12,180 | 02:11:14,180 | 當然很好 |
| 02:11:14,180 | 02:11:16,180 | 可是問題就是說 |
| 02:11:16,180 | 02:11:18,180 | 他訓練出來的受盡 |
| 02:11:18,180 | 02:11:20,180 | 那個評級已經算很高了 |
| 02:11:20,180 | 02:11:22,180 | 可是你那個待遇還跟一般的 |
| 02:11:22,180 | 02:11:24,180 | 傳統的法警 |
| 02:11:24,180 | 02:11:26,180 | 沒有什麼差別 |
| 02:11:26,180 | 02:11:28,180 | 你有沒有覺得會比較奇怪 |
| 02:11:28,180 | 02:11:30,180 | 謝謝委員 |
| 02:11:30,180 | 02:11:32,180 | 我們也希望分計畫可是沒辦法 |
| 02:11:32,180 | 02:11:34,180 | 那我們也只能給加班費 |
| 02:11:34,180 | 02:11:36,180 | 可是加班費是有限的 |
| 02:11:36,180 | 02:11:38,180 | 我只能這樣回答委員 |
| 02:11:40,180 | 02:11:42,180 | 這不能說沒辦法 |
| 02:11:42,180 | 02:11:44,180 | 因為這個也不要其他機關的配合 |
| 02:11:46,180 | 02:11:48,180 | 因為你尤其講到待遇 |
| 02:11:48,180 | 02:11:50,180 | 我就跟你說 |
| 02:11:50,180 | 02:11:52,180 | 侃律算那麼狠的翁委員 |
| 02:11:52,180 | 02:11:54,180 | 對你們都那麼有菩薩心腸 |
| 02:11:54,180 | 02:11:56,180 | 要給你們支持 |
| 02:11:56,180 | 02:11:58,180 | 你不能講沒有辦法 |
| 02:11:58,180 | 02:12:00,180 | 他對...沒有 |
| 02:12:00,180 | 02:12:02,180 | 我跟翁委員對這個 |
| 02:12:02,180 | 02:12:04,180 | 對司法院這個部分 |
| 02:12:04,180 | 02:12:06,180 | 像對於法院這個部分 |
| 02:12:06,180 | 02:12:08,180 | 我們認為有需要我們真的 |
| 02:12:08,180 | 02:12:10,180 | 在司法法制委員我們真的沒給你們分洞牌 |
| 02:12:10,180 | 02:12:12,180 | 你像有這種硬體的設置 |
| 02:12:12,180 | 02:12:14,180 | 你到最後如果老百姓真的要用的 |
| 02:12:14,180 | 02:12:16,180 | 你總是要去做一個提升 |
| 02:12:16,180 | 02:12:18,180 | 你去看歐盟 |
| 02:12:18,180 | 02:12:20,180 | 你去看日本 |
| 02:12:20,180 | 02:12:22,180 | 我們自路上去做比較的時候 |
| 02:12:22,180 | 02:12:24,180 | 我們要前接上來 |
| 02:12:24,180 | 02:12:26,180 | 人家有喝過洋墨水 |
| 02:12:26,180 | 02:12:28,180 | 對這部分看到制度的建置 |
| 02:12:28,180 | 02:12:30,180 | 對整個國家長遠是有幫助的 |
| 02:12:30,180 | 02:12:32,180 | 那當然要去做 |
| 02:12:32,180 | 02:12:34,180 | 本席的意思就是說 |
| 02:12:34,180 | 02:12:36,180 | 那個人都給你們分連出來後 |
| 02:12:36,180 | 02:12:38,180 | 他已經不是法警了 |
| 02:12:38,180 | 02:12:40,180 | 那素質...沒有啦 |
| 02:12:40,180 | 02:12:42,180 | 我意思是說那個人力的品質 |
| 02:12:42,180 | 02:12:44,180 | 跟素質 |
| 02:12:44,180 | 02:12:46,180 | 搞不好他已經看不上你那一份薪水了 |
| 02:12:46,180 | 02:12:48,180 | 我跟你講 |
| 02:12:48,180 | 02:12:50,180 | 所以我們要用想像的說 |
| 02:12:50,180 | 02:12:52,180 | 我這個整個 |
| 02:12:52,180 | 02:12:54,180 | 對於精神疾病 |
| 02:12:54,180 | 02:12:56,180 | 我到時候這個法警 |
| 02:12:56,180 | 02:12:58,180 | 我要訓練你要怎麼辨識 |
| 02:12:58,180 | 02:13:00,180 | 要怎麼為機處理 |
| 02:13:00,180 | 02:13:02,180 | 我要把它變成保護性的約束的時候 |
| 02:13:02,180 | 02:13:04,180 | 要做一些對身體的強制 |
| 02:13:04,180 | 02:13:06,180 | 自由的一個強制的時候 |
| 02:13:06,180 | 02:13:08,180 | 我這個時候 |
| 02:13:08,180 | 02:13:10,180 | 我要分辨出哪一些 |
| 02:13:10,180 | 02:13:12,180 | 我有哪一些特殊的一個技能 |
| 02:13:12,180 | 02:13:14,180 | 這如果分連起來 |
| 02:13:14,180 | 02:13:16,180 | 要完整的教育訓練出來 |
| 02:13:16,180 | 02:13:18,180 | 叫我做法警我不會啦 |
| 02:13:18,180 | 02:13:20,180 | 我給你這麼好的人力的一個素質 |
| 02:13:20,180 | 02:13:22,180 | 我的意思是說待遇 |
| 02:13:22,180 | 02:13:24,180 | 其實這一個部分 |
| 02:13:24,180 | 02:13:26,180 | 長期都偏低 |
| 02:13:26,180 | 02:13:28,180 | 為什麼長期會偏低 |
| 02:13:28,180 | 02:13:30,180 | 一般大家覺得去做法警的人 |
| 02:13:30,180 | 02:13:32,180 | 多涼啦 |
| 02:13:32,180 | 02:13:34,180 | 這麼簡單啦 |
| 02:13:34,180 | 02:13:36,180 | 我說外界啦 |
| 02:13:36,180 | 02:13:38,180 | 我們為什麼今天要立法 |
| 02:13:38,180 | 02:13:40,180 | 就是說要授權 |
| 02:13:40,180 | 02:13:42,180 | 法警就跟警察就不一樣 |
| 02:13:42,180 | 02:13:44,180 | 不是嗎 |
| 02:13:44,180 | 02:13:46,180 | 如果法警跟警察是一樣的話 |
| 02:13:46,180 | 02:13:48,180 | 我們還有一個法律的依據 |
| 02:13:48,180 | 02:13:50,180 | 要給法警當他執行他的職務的時候 |
| 02:13:50,180 | 02:13:52,180 | 有基於法律的授權 |
| 02:13:52,180 | 02:13:54,180 | 他可以做一些什麼什麼 |
| 02:13:54,180 | 02:13:56,180 | 如果沒有就警察職權刑事法就有啦 |
| 02:13:56,180 | 02:13:58,180 | 他就是不是 |
| 02:13:58,180 | 02:14:00,180 | 法警就跟警察又不一樣啦 |
| 02:14:00,180 | 02:14:02,180 | 所以我是覺得這部分 |
| 02:14:02,180 | 02:14:04,180 | 要去做一個思考 |
| 02:14:04,180 | 02:14:06,180 | 待遇該提升的部分 |
| 02:14:06,180 | 02:14:08,180 | 我們會往這方面 |
| 02:14:08,180 | 02:14:10,180 | 來努力請委員多多支持 |
| 02:14:10,180 | 02:14:12,180 | 是嘛你不一定要這樣硬 |
| 02:14:12,180 | 02:14:14,180 | 你硬說沒辦法 |
| 02:14:14,180 | 02:14:16,180 | 也是因為要外機關嘛 |
| 02:14:16,180 | 02:14:18,180 | 所以我們要跟外機關共同來努力 |
| 02:14:18,180 | 02:14:20,180 | 才有辦法 |
| 02:14:20,180 | 02:14:22,180 | 在公務機關裡面 |
| 02:14:22,180 | 02:14:24,180 | 人力素質品質越提升的話 |
| 02:14:24,180 | 02:14:26,180 | 對老百姓越有幫助啦 |
| 02:14:26,180 | 02:14:28,180 | 可是你把他提升到 |
| 02:14:28,180 | 02:14:30,180 | 他的其實他的 |
| 02:14:30,180 | 02:14:32,180 | 素質已經很高的時候 |
| 02:14:32,180 | 02:14:34,180 | 他也會去比較啦 |
| 02:14:34,180 | 02:14:36,180 | 他也會覺得我這麼強 |
| 02:14:36,180 | 02:14:38,180 | 我領你這麼一點點的一個待遇 |
| 02:14:38,180 | 02:14:40,180 | 他會覺得這個配 |
| 02:14:40,180 | 02:14:42,180 | 這個待遇 |
| 02:14:42,180 | 02:14:44,180 | 跟醫師做的工作 |
| 02:14:44,180 | 02:14:46,180 | 不成比例啦 |
| 02:14:46,180 | 02:14:48,180 | 我最後要問一個問題 |
| 02:14:48,180 | 02:14:50,180 | 就是說這個科技化 |
| 02:14:50,180 | 02:14:52,180 | 說科技化 |
| 02:14:52,180 | 02:14:54,180 | 這種科技你說AI |
| 02:14:54,180 | 02:14:56,180 | 譬如你說的那個 |
| 02:14:56,180 | 02:14:58,180 | call center |
| 02:14:58,180 | 02:15:00,180 | 其實一般民眾會想詢問 |
| 02:15:00,180 | 02:15:02,180 | 他對於整個 |
| 02:15:02,180 | 02:15:04,180 | 司法機關法院能夠提供 |
| 02:15:04,180 | 02:15:06,180 | 他怎麼樣的一個 |
| 02:15:06,180 | 02:15:08,180 | 好的一個答案 |
| 02:15:08,180 | 02:15:10,180 | 差不多你給他匯整開後 |
| 02:15:10,180 | 02:15:12,180 | 什麼400折嘛 |
| 02:15:12,180 | 02:15:14,180 | 什麼400折 |
| 02:15:14,180 | 02:15:16,180 | 將近兩三千折 |
| 02:15:16,180 | 02:15:18,180 | 通用都用得到 |
| 02:15:18,180 | 02:15:20,180 | 核心問題 |
| 02:15:20,180 | 02:15:22,180 | 我們光通用的就 |
| 02:15:22,180 | 02:15:24,180 | 我們施行令已經 |
| 02:15:24,180 | 02:15:26,180 | 一千折以上 |
| 02:15:26,180 | 02:15:28,180 | 然後再把它集中 |
| 02:15:28,180 | 02:15:30,180 | 要再集中再集中 |
| 02:15:30,180 | 02:15:32,180 | 一千折你不要說一千折 |
| 02:15:32,180 | 02:15:34,180 | 精華五百折左右 |
| 02:15:34,180 | 02:15:36,180 | 精華也不用 |
| 02:15:36,180 | 02:15:38,180 | 有AI你要用了 |
| 02:15:38,180 | 02:15:40,180 | 都一千折啦 |
| 02:15:40,180 | 02:15:42,180 | 你要五千折你要讓他調列 |
| 02:15:42,180 | 02:15:44,180 | 讓他核心弄出來以後 |
| 02:15:44,180 | 02:15:46,180 | 還是要善用 |
| 02:15:46,180 | 02:15:48,180 | 我們在call center裡面 |
| 02:15:48,180 | 02:15:50,180 | 就是要善用AI |
| 02:15:50,180 | 02:15:52,180 | 你完全靠人力是不可能的 |
| 02:15:52,180 | 02:15:54,180 | 是啦 |
| 02:15:54,180 | 02:15:56,180 | 整個人力是要配套進去的 |
| 02:15:56,180 | 02:15:58,180 | 所以科技尤其這一種 |
| 02:15:58,180 | 02:16:00,180 | 比較這樣的一個建置 |
| 02:16:00,180 | 02:16:02,180 | 其實就是要讓 |
| 02:16:02,180 | 02:16:04,180 | 第一線的人 |
| 02:16:04,180 | 02:16:06,180 | 第一線的人打贏 |
| 02:16:06,180 | 02:16:08,180 | 那以上比如說那個客服 |
| 02:16:08,180 | 02:16:10,180 | 你有時候司機看貪圖要貪死 |
| 02:16:10,180 | 02:16:12,180 | 還有那些人要再問 |
| 02:16:12,180 | 02:16:14,180 | 這些有的沒的 |
| 02:16:14,180 | 02:16:16,180 | 但他要去詢問民眾或者當事人 |
| 02:16:16,180 | 02:16:18,180 | 去詢問你又不能說當事人不能關心 |
| 02:16:18,180 | 02:16:20,180 | 你還是要去做一個提供 |
| 02:16:20,180 | 02:16:22,180 | 該交給科技 |
| 02:16:22,180 | 02:16:24,180 | 科技 |
| 02:16:24,180 | 02:16:26,180 | 行政的工作可以盡量去做 |
| 02:16:26,180 | 02:16:28,180 | 一個簡化的 |
| 02:16:28,180 | 02:16:30,180 | 這部分我看這不是 |
| 02:16:30,180 | 02:16:32,180 | 所以我們今天要問的就是 |
| 02:16:32,180 | 02:16:34,180 | 不是罰警跟書記官的代務 |
| 02:16:34,180 | 02:16:36,180 | 連這個司法體系 |
| 02:16:36,180 | 02:16:38,180 | 真的是也要 |
| 02:16:38,180 | 02:16:40,180 | 跟上時代 |
| 02:16:40,180 | 02:16:42,180 | 要跟上時代就是開機 |
| 02:16:42,180 | 02:16:44,180 | 要開機就是要你們自己設計出來 |
| 02:16:44,180 | 02:16:46,180 | 你們自己有一個制度送進來 |
| 02:16:46,180 | 02:16:48,180 | 立法委員沒那麼厲害 |
| 02:16:48,180 | 02:16:50,180 | 但是你的制度設計 |
| 02:16:50,180 | 02:16:52,180 | 你就覺得不錯大家跟你們一起支持 |
| 02:16:52,180 | 02:16:54,180 | 不能跟我們說你沒辦法 |
| 02:16:54,180 | 02:16:56,180 | 我們等下要跟你支持 |
| 02:16:56,180 | 02:16:58,180 | 好不好謝謝 |
| 02:16:58,180 | 02:17:00,180 | 謝謝 |
| 02:17:00,180 | 02:17:02,180 | 謝謝莊昭偉 |
| 02:17:02,180 | 02:17:04,180 | 我雖然砍預算可是我基本上對司法預算是支持的 |
| 02:17:04,180 | 02:17:06,180 | 我只是刪的是憲法法庭 |
| 02:17:06,180 | 02:17:08,180 | 因為他現在沒有組成 |
| 02:17:08,180 | 02:17:10,180 | 大法官都沒有到期 |
| 02:17:10,180 | 02:17:12,180 | 所以我是這裡是 |
| 02:17:12,180 | 02:17:14,180 | 是非分明 |
| 02:17:14,180 | 02:17:16,180 | 是 |
| 02:17:16,180 | 02:17:18,180 | 好謝謝莊昭偉 |
| 02:17:18,180 | 02:17:20,180 | 接下來我們就有請 |
| 02:17:22,180 | 02:17:24,180 | 接下來是中嘉賓委員 |
| 02:17:24,180 | 02:17:26,180 | 中嘉賓委員 |
| 02:17:26,180 | 02:17:28,180 | 中嘉賓委員不在 |
| 02:17:28,180 | 02:17:30,180 | 政政前委員 |
| 02:17:30,180 | 02:17:32,180 | 政政前委員不在 |
| 02:17:32,180 | 02:17:34,180 | 蘇青全委員 |
| 02:17:34,180 | 02:17:36,180 | 蘇青全委員 |
| 02:17:36,180 | 02:17:38,180 | 蘇青全委員不在 |
| 02:17:38,180 | 02:17:40,180 | 我先做一個程序上面的聲明 |
| 02:17:40,180 | 02:17:42,180 | 待會林淑芬委員 |
| 02:17:42,180 | 02:17:44,180 | 質詢完畢之後我們就先休息五分鐘 |
| 02:17:44,180 | 02:17:46,180 | 如果說是陳萬霆委員有到場的話 |
| 02:17:46,180 | 02:17:48,180 | 我們就休息五分鐘 |
| 02:17:48,180 | 02:17:50,180 | 如果說他沒有的話 |
| 02:17:50,180 | 02:17:52,180 | 或許我們就等范園委員就一起 |
| 02:17:52,180 | 02:17:54,180 | 是嗎 |
| 02:17:56,180 | 02:17:58,180 | 沒關係 |
| 02:17:58,180 | 02:18:00,180 | 沒關係 |
| 02:18:00,180 | 02:18:02,180 | 如果說是陳萬霆委員 |
| 02:18:02,180 | 02:18:04,180 | 我們就休息 |
| 02:18:04,180 | 02:18:06,180 | 如果說沒有的話 |
| 02:18:06,180 | 02:18:08,180 | 我們就請范芸委員 |
| 02:18:08,180 | 02:18:10,180 | 范芸委員質詢完之後 |
| 02:18:10,180 | 02:18:12,180 | 我們就再一起休息 |
| 02:18:12,180 | 02:18:14,180 | 接下來就有請林淑芬委員發言 |
| 02:18:14,180 | 02:18:16,180 | 好謝謝主席 |
| 02:18:16,180 | 02:18:18,180 | 是不是請我們這個 |
| 02:18:18,180 | 02:18:20,180 | 部長 |
| 02:18:20,180 | 02:18:22,180 | 院長 |
| 02:18:22,180 | 02:18:24,180 | 不秘書長 |
| 02:18:24,180 | 02:18:26,180 | 來請我高秘書長 |
| 02:18:28,180 | 02:18:30,180 | 委員早 |
| 02:18:30,180 | 02:18:32,180 | 秘書長早 |
| 02:18:32,180 | 02:18:34,180 | 你們提出這個法院組織法 |
| 02:18:34,180 | 02:18:36,180 | 還有這個行政 |
| 02:18:36,180 | 02:18:38,180 | 法院組織法等 |
| 02:18:38,180 | 02:18:40,180 | 的條文的修正 |
| 02:18:40,180 | 02:18:42,180 | 對外說是要提高這個書記官法警長 |
| 02:18:42,180 | 02:18:44,180 | 副法警長的職務列等 |
| 02:18:44,180 | 02:18:46,180 | 提高他們的待遇 |
| 02:18:46,180 | 02:18:48,180 | 保障他們 |
| 02:18:48,180 | 02:18:50,180 | 那要明確化法警辦理職務的內容 |
| 02:18:50,180 | 02:18:52,180 | 但是呢 |
| 02:18:52,180 | 02:18:54,180 | 在這一包修法 |
| 02:18:54,180 | 02:18:56,180 | 當中卻夾帶了一條 |
| 02:18:56,180 | 02:18:58,180 | 現在還沒有復圍 |
| 02:18:58,180 | 02:19:00,180 | 然後也沒有完成一讀 |
| 02:19:00,180 | 02:19:02,180 | 然後你今天的報告 |
| 02:19:02,180 | 02:19:04,180 | 就已經寫出來了 |
| 02:19:04,180 | 02:19:06,180 | 就是跟書記官法警 |
| 02:19:06,180 | 02:19:08,180 | 都無關的 |
| 02:19:08,180 | 02:19:10,180 | 藐視法官的命令 |
| 02:19:10,180 | 02:19:12,180 | 的修法 |
| 02:19:12,180 | 02:19:14,180 | 你知道吧 |
| 02:19:14,180 | 02:19:16,180 | 我們在那個組織法裡面 |
| 02:19:16,180 | 02:19:18,180 | 就 |
| 02:19:18,180 | 02:19:20,180 | 修正草案都放在裡面 |
| 02:19:20,180 | 02:19:22,180 | 蛤 |
| 02:19:22,180 | 02:19:24,180 | 就關於這個 |
| 02:19:24,180 | 02:19:26,180 | 因為法官 |
| 02:19:26,180 | 02:19:28,180 | 他會發 |
| 02:19:28,180 | 02:19:30,180 | 就是95條的修正 |
| 02:19:30,180 | 02:19:32,180 | 就是要維持法庭秩序啊 |
| 02:19:32,180 | 02:19:34,180 | 這沒有夾帶啊 |
| 02:19:34,180 | 02:19:36,180 | 你現在還沒完成一讀 |
| 02:19:36,180 | 02:19:38,180 | 也沒有復圍 |
| 02:19:38,180 | 02:19:40,180 | 8月3號才送進來 |
| 02:19:40,180 | 02:19:42,180 | 連一讀都還沒有 |
| 02:19:42,180 | 02:19:44,180 | 你就已經說明了 |
| 02:19:44,180 | 02:19:46,180 | 但這程序上不是重點 |
| 02:19:46,180 | 02:19:48,180 | 我不是要跟你談這個 |
| 02:19:48,180 | 02:19:50,180 | 你們都認為理所當然的事情 |
| 02:19:50,180 | 02:19:52,180 | 這個我們都不一定 |
| 02:19:52,180 | 02:19:54,180 | 我要請教你喔 |
| 02:19:54,180 | 02:19:56,180 | 秘書長大法官 |
| 02:19:56,180 | 02:19:58,180 | 這個憲判 |
| 02:19:58,180 | 02:20:00,180 | 這個是不是宣告刑法第140條 |
| 02:20:00,180 | 02:20:02,180 | 侮辱公務員罪 |
| 02:20:02,180 | 02:20:04,180 | 部分違憲 |
| 02:20:04,180 | 02:20:06,180 | 有沒有 |
| 02:20:06,180 | 02:20:08,180 | 這是很大的判決喔 |
| 02:20:08,180 | 02:20:10,180 | 對 |
| 02:20:10,180 | 02:20:12,180 | 好那怎麼判呢 |
| 02:20:12,180 | 02:20:14,180 | 113年憲判第5號說 |
| 02:20:14,180 | 02:20:16,180 | 關於侮辱公務員罪 |
| 02:20:16,180 | 02:20:18,180 | 的部分 |
| 02:20:18,180 | 02:20:20,180 | 應限縮於 |
| 02:20:20,180 | 02:20:22,180 | 公務員的當場侮辱行為 |
| 02:20:22,180 | 02:20:24,180 | 是基於妨礙公務的主觀目的 |
| 02:20:24,180 | 02:20:26,180 | 而且 |
| 02:20:26,180 | 02:20:28,180 | 要足以影響公務員 |
| 02:20:28,180 | 02:20:30,180 | 執行公務的情形 |
| 02:20:30,180 | 02:20:32,180 | 在這個範圍裡面 |
| 02:20:32,180 | 02:20:34,180 | 十語憲法第11條 |
| 02:20:34,180 | 02:20:36,180 | 保障言論自由的意旨無違 |
| 02:20:36,180 | 02:20:38,180 | 這是大府憲說了 |
| 02:20:38,180 | 02:20:40,180 | 這個侮辱公務員罪的 |
| 02:20:40,180 | 02:20:42,180 | 構成要件喔 |
| 02:20:42,180 | 02:20:44,180 | 必須要很嚴謹喔 |
| 02:20:44,180 | 02:20:46,180 | 那我現在跟你講喔 |
| 02:20:46,180 | 02:20:48,180 | 秘書長一般公務員被侮辱啊 |
| 02:20:48,180 | 02:20:50,180 | 必須對方是主觀上 |
| 02:20:50,180 | 02:20:52,180 | 我就是故意要妨礙你 |
| 02:20:52,180 | 02:20:54,180 | 而且造成了妨礙 |
| 02:20:54,180 | 02:20:56,180 | 而且我就是要侮辱你 |
| 02:20:56,180 | 02:20:58,180 | 而且造成妨礙才會構成犯罪喔 |
| 02:20:58,180 | 02:21:00,180 | 那你們呢 |
| 02:21:00,180 | 02:21:02,180 | 現在的提出現行的 |
| 02:21:02,180 | 02:21:04,180 | 不要說你提出了修正喔 |
| 02:21:04,180 | 02:21:06,180 | 法院組織法第95條 |
| 02:21:06,180 | 02:21:08,180 | 規定要構成 |
| 02:21:08,180 | 02:21:10,180 | 這個犯罪喔 |
| 02:21:10,180 | 02:21:12,180 | 刑責伺候喔 |
| 02:21:12,180 | 02:21:14,180 | 他的構成要件 |
| 02:21:14,180 | 02:21:16,180 | 是什麼 |
| 02:21:16,180 | 02:21:18,180 | 第一個那個吳宗憲委員 |
| 02:21:18,180 | 02:21:20,180 | 他的草案裡面就有這一條喔 |
| 02:21:20,180 | 02:21:22,180 | 我管他吳宗憲我再問你啦 |
| 02:21:22,180 | 02:21:24,180 | 你直接回答我 |
| 02:21:24,180 | 02:21:26,180 | 法院組織法第95條 |
| 02:21:26,180 | 02:21:28,180 | 現在的構成要件的 |
| 02:21:28,180 | 02:21:30,180 | 這個行為是什麼 |
| 02:21:30,180 | 02:21:32,180 | 現行 |
| 02:21:32,180 | 02:21:34,180 | 對 現行是 |
| 02:21:34,180 | 02:21:36,180 | 自妨害法院執行職務 |
| 02:21:36,180 | 02:21:38,180 | 經制止不聽 |
| 02:21:38,180 | 02:21:40,180 | 好 經制止不聽 |
| 02:21:40,180 | 02:21:42,180 | 妨礙職務 |
| 02:21:42,180 | 02:21:44,180 | 我們都講罪行法定主義啦 |
| 02:21:44,180 | 02:21:46,180 | 妨礙職務的範圍可就廣啦 |
| 02:21:46,180 | 02:21:48,180 | 但經制止不聽的要件喔 |
| 02:21:48,180 | 02:21:50,180 | 我個人相當不同意 |
| 02:21:50,180 | 02:21:52,180 | 現行的法律 |
| 02:21:52,180 | 02:21:54,180 | 這個白話文就講說 |
| 02:21:54,180 | 02:21:56,180 | 你在這裡喔 |
| 02:21:56,180 | 02:21:58,180 | 吵啦鬧啦 |
| 02:21:58,180 | 02:22:00,180 | 然後法官兩次叫你 |
| 02:22:00,180 | 02:22:02,180 | 不要亂了 |
| 02:22:02,180 | 02:22:04,180 | 你還在這裡大聲繼續講話 |
| 02:22:04,180 | 02:22:06,180 | 你就有罪了 |
| 02:22:06,180 | 02:22:08,180 | 刑責伺候 |
| 02:22:08,180 | 02:22:10,180 | 大聲說話 |
| 02:22:10,180 | 02:22:12,180 | 就像李佩妮裡面說 |
| 02:22:12,180 | 02:22:14,180 | 大家繼續不安靜 |
| 02:22:14,180 | 02:22:16,180 | 好 |
| 02:22:16,180 | 02:22:18,180 | 抓去關 馬上就起訴 |
| 02:22:18,180 | 02:22:20,180 | 如果是這樣子可以嗎 |
| 02:22:20,180 | 02:22:22,180 | 所以就是因為 |
| 02:22:22,180 | 02:22:24,180 | 基於現行法 |
| 02:22:24,180 | 02:22:26,180 | 這樣的規定對於法官 |
| 02:22:26,180 | 02:22:28,180 | 他在這個 |
| 02:22:28,180 | 02:22:30,180 | 維持法庭秩序老實說 |
| 02:22:30,180 | 02:22:32,180 | 如委員所說的 |
| 02:22:32,180 | 02:22:34,180 | 會有很多考慮要馬上進行者 |
| 02:22:34,180 | 02:22:36,180 | 所以我們才希望 |
| 02:22:36,180 | 02:22:38,180 | 就如同吳宗憲委員所提出來的 |
| 02:22:38,180 | 02:22:40,180 | 先讓他用行政法 |
| 02:22:40,180 | 02:22:42,180 | 就是這個目的 |
| 02:22:42,180 | 02:22:44,180 | 現在你的所主張的 |
| 02:22:44,180 | 02:22:46,180 | 你要現行的法律就是這樣 |
| 02:22:46,180 | 02:22:48,180 | 直接刑責伺候 |
| 02:22:48,180 | 02:22:50,180 | 你現在說好 |
| 02:22:50,180 | 02:22:52,180 | 我現在先給你行政法 |
| 02:22:52,180 | 02:22:54,180 | 你還是不聽第二次 |
| 02:22:54,180 | 02:22:56,180 | 再犯的話我就給你刑罰 |
| 02:22:56,180 | 02:22:58,180 | 現在你把 |
| 02:22:58,180 | 02:23:00,180 | 禁制止不聽 |
| 02:23:00,180 | 02:23:02,180 | 直接就拿掉了 |
| 02:23:02,180 | 02:23:04,180 | 你們號稱說要先行政法 |
| 02:23:04,180 | 02:23:06,180 | 可是不是喔 |
| 02:23:06,180 | 02:23:08,180 | 他現在是禁制止不聽 |
| 02:23:08,180 | 02:23:10,180 | 直接拿掉 |
| 02:23:10,180 | 02:23:12,180 | 只要我認定你妨礙這個職務 |
| 02:23:12,180 | 02:23:14,180 | 你直接就處罰了 |
| 02:23:14,180 | 02:23:16,180 | 罰錢了 |
| 02:23:16,180 | 02:23:18,180 | 直接喔 |
| 02:23:18,180 | 02:23:20,180 | 沒有制止不聽喔 |
| 02:23:20,180 | 02:23:22,180 | 然後第二次再犯 |
| 02:23:22,180 | 02:23:24,180 | 直接就刑責伺候 |
| 02:23:24,180 | 02:23:26,180 | 你說這是先行政後刑罰 |
| 02:23:26,180 | 02:23:28,180 | 不是咧你連制止不聽 |
| 02:23:28,180 | 02:23:30,180 | 這個要件都拿掉了 |
| 02:23:30,180 | 02:23:32,180 | 所以我舉一個例子好了 |
| 02:23:32,180 | 02:23:34,180 | 如果法庭這個開庭的時候 |
| 02:23:34,180 | 02:23:36,180 | 法官說 |
| 02:23:36,180 | 02:23:38,180 | 雙方不要在那裡爭執了 |
| 02:23:38,180 | 02:23:40,180 | 等到辯論的時候 |
| 02:23:40,180 | 02:23:42,180 | 再說好了結果 |
| 02:23:42,180 | 02:23:44,180 | 當事人大家很容易嘛 |
| 02:23:44,180 | 02:23:46,180 | 雙方繼續爭執 |
| 02:23:46,180 | 02:23:48,180 | 這樣子是不是就構成了 |
| 02:23:48,180 | 02:23:50,180 | 維持法庭秩序之命令 |
| 02:23:50,180 | 02:23:52,180 | 制妨礙法院執行職務 |
| 02:23:52,180 | 02:23:54,180 | 也不需要禁制止不聽了 |
| 02:23:54,180 | 02:23:56,180 | 直接就罰錢了第二次再不聽 |
| 02:23:56,180 | 02:23:58,180 | 然後就直接抓去關啦 |
| 02:23:58,180 | 02:24:00,180 | 所以在法庭裡面 |
| 02:24:00,180 | 02:24:02,180 | 是不是只能夠 |
| 02:24:02,180 | 02:24:04,180 | 唯唯諾諾深怕多講幾句話 |
| 02:24:04,180 | 02:24:06,180 | 就被認為是妨礙執行職務了呢 |
| 02:24:06,180 | 02:24:08,180 | 跟委員報告 |
| 02:24:08,180 | 02:24:10,180 | 當一位法官 |
| 02:24:10,180 | 02:24:12,180 | 他會要講說你要維持法庭秩序 |
| 02:24:12,180 | 02:24:14,180 | 如同委員所說的 |
| 02:24:14,180 | 02:24:16,180 | 一定雙方爭執很嚴重 |
| 02:24:16,180 | 02:24:18,180 | 法官為了維持法庭秩序 |
| 02:24:18,180 | 02:24:20,180 | 一定會跟他說 |
| 02:24:20,180 | 02:24:22,180 | 好大家照順序說 |
| 02:24:22,180 | 02:24:24,180 | 其實他的命令就是這樣子 |
| 02:24:24,180 | 02:24:26,180 | 你講得太簡短了 |
| 02:24:26,180 | 02:24:28,180 | 哦 |
| 02:24:32,180 | 02:24:34,180 | 你講得好像是 |
| 02:24:34,180 | 02:24:36,180 | 必須要好像很喧鬧什麼的 |
| 02:24:36,180 | 02:24:38,180 | 我舉三個例子給你聽 |
| 02:24:38,180 | 02:24:40,180 | 我講三個實例給你聽 |
| 02:24:40,180 | 02:24:42,180 | 你來聽聽看 |
| 02:24:42,180 | 02:24:44,180 | 抱歉老闆 |
| 02:24:44,180 | 02:24:46,180 | 主席那個等我一下下 |
| 02:24:46,180 | 02:24:48,180 | 來 |
| 02:24:48,180 | 02:24:50,180 | 這個 |
| 02:24:50,180 | 02:24:52,180 | 被告 |
| 02:24:52,180 | 02:24:54,180 | 在檢察官對於 |
| 02:24:54,180 | 02:24:56,180 | 這個 |
| 02:24:56,180 | 02:24:58,180 | 證人進行反結問時 |
| 02:24:58,180 | 02:25:00,180 | 抱歉我這樣講好了 |
| 02:25:00,180 | 02:25:02,180 | 這樣字太小了 |
| 02:25:02,180 | 02:25:04,180 | 來 |
| 02:25:04,180 | 02:25:06,180 | 我們去搜尋過 |
| 02:25:06,180 | 02:25:08,180 | 很多的這個判例啦 |
| 02:25:08,180 | 02:25:10,180 | 曾經有一個就是 |
| 02:25:10,180 | 02:25:12,180 | 法庭的一個法庭 |
| 02:25:12,180 | 02:25:14,180 | 法庭的一個法庭 |
| 02:25:14,180 | 02:25:16,180 | 曾經有一個就是 |
| 02:25:16,180 | 02:25:18,180 | 被告打斷證人發言 |
| 02:25:18,180 | 02:25:20,180 | 然後 |
| 02:25:20,180 | 02:25:22,180 | 就被法院用這一條 |
| 02:25:22,180 | 02:25:24,180 | 判拘役二十天 |
| 02:25:24,180 | 02:25:26,180 | 如果這個放在立法院 |
| 02:25:26,180 | 02:25:28,180 | 官員被尋的時候 |
| 02:25:28,180 | 02:25:30,180 | 立委在講話 |
| 02:25:30,180 | 02:25:32,180 | 官員打斷立委的提問 |
| 02:25:32,180 | 02:25:34,180 | 官員就要被判刑你覺得如何 |
| 02:25:34,180 | 02:25:36,180 | 就是說 |
| 02:25:36,180 | 02:25:38,180 | 證人在發言 |
| 02:25:38,180 | 02:25:40,180 | 然後他被告就說 |
| 02:25:40,180 | 02:25:42,180 | 你這樣講講的錯誤啦 |
| 02:25:42,180 | 02:25:44,180 | 這樣子這樣就被起訴了 |
| 02:25:44,180 | 02:25:46,180 | 判二十天 |
| 02:25:46,180 | 02:25:48,180 | 然後過去還發生過被告在法庭上 |
| 02:25:48,180 | 02:25:50,180 | 大聲發言幾次 |
| 02:25:50,180 | 02:25:52,180 | 然後法院就說 |
| 02:25:52,180 | 02:25:54,180 | 你這樣子起訴 |
| 02:25:54,180 | 02:25:56,180 | 放在立法院的話 |
| 02:25:56,180 | 02:25:58,180 | 就是說官員大聲的回答 |
| 02:25:58,180 | 02:26:00,180 | 立委的提問就要被判刑 |
| 02:26:00,180 | 02:26:02,180 | 他是判拘役三十天啦 |
| 02:26:02,180 | 02:26:04,180 | 這個都有判例的 |
| 02:26:04,180 | 02:26:06,180 | 那你覺得怎麼樣 |
| 02:26:06,180 | 02:26:08,180 | 一個是地方法院九六年 |
| 02:26:08,180 | 02:26:10,180 | 檢上至第三九六號 |
| 02:26:10,180 | 02:26:12,180 | 一個是九十六年 |
| 02:26:12,180 | 02:26:14,180 | 抑制第二三一零號 |
| 02:26:14,180 | 02:26:16,180 | 過去還曾經發生這樣 |
| 02:26:16,180 | 02:26:18,180 | 在刑事庭開庭的時候 |
| 02:26:18,180 | 02:26:20,180 | 跟公訴檢察官相悶 |
| 02:26:20,180 | 02:26:22,180 | 一個檢察官你陳述的內容不實 |
| 02:26:22,180 | 02:26:24,180 | 你再這樣不實的話 |
| 02:26:24,180 | 02:26:26,180 | 我要告你 |
| 02:26:26,180 | 02:26:28,180 | 然後 |
| 02:26:28,180 | 02:26:30,180 | 你講的不對我要告你 |
| 02:26:30,180 | 02:26:32,180 | 然後就這樣講了 |
| 02:26:32,180 | 02:26:34,180 | 然後就被起訴了 |
| 02:26:34,180 | 02:26:36,180 | 然後呢 |
| 02:26:36,180 | 02:26:38,180 | 最後判決無罪 |
| 02:26:38,180 | 02:26:40,180 | 跟委員報告 |
| 02:26:40,180 | 02:26:42,180 | 我們對委員現在講的實例一下子 |
| 02:26:42,180 | 02:26:44,180 | 我也沒辦法這個很具體 |
| 02:26:44,180 | 02:26:46,180 | 我知道啦 |
| 02:26:46,180 | 02:26:48,180 | 可是我相信在整個法官 |
| 02:26:48,180 | 02:26:50,180 | 他要起訴這時候 |
| 02:26:50,180 | 02:26:52,180 | 絕對在現場的時候 |
| 02:26:52,180 | 02:26:54,180 | 一定跟他說你不要再說了 |
| 02:26:54,180 | 02:26:56,180 | 太吵了 |
| 02:26:56,180 | 02:26:58,180 | 有現行的法律叫金字子不聽 |
| 02:26:58,180 | 02:27:00,180 | 但未來是連金字子不聽 |
| 02:27:00,180 | 02:27:02,180 | 都不需要 |
| 02:27:02,180 | 02:27:04,180 | 報告委員其實金字子不聽 |
| 02:27:04,180 | 02:27:06,180 | 一定就是在 |
| 02:27:06,180 | 02:27:08,180 | 發這個 |
| 02:27:08,180 | 02:27:10,180 | 這個違庭法庭秩序 |
| 02:27:10,180 | 02:27:12,180 | 法官一定講你不要說了 |
| 02:27:12,180 | 02:27:14,180 | 你不要說了 |
| 02:27:14,180 | 02:27:16,180 | 沒有啦 |
| 02:27:16,180 | 02:27:18,180 | 你不要說你不要說就要抓去 |
| 02:27:18,180 | 02:27:20,180 | 關嗎 |
| 02:27:20,180 | 02:27:22,180 | 你不要說了你不要說了結果繼續說 |
| 02:27:22,180 | 02:27:24,180 | 就要抓去關嗎 |
| 02:27:24,180 | 02:27:26,180 | 我老實說 |
| 02:27:26,180 | 02:27:28,180 | 你不要再說了 |
| 02:27:28,180 | 02:27:30,180 | 你的法院組織法第 |
| 02:27:30,180 | 02:27:32,180 | 88條89條91條 |
| 02:27:32,180 | 02:27:34,180 | 你們還有其他 |
| 02:27:34,180 | 02:27:36,180 | 手段那方法可以掛出去 |
| 02:27:36,180 | 02:27:38,180 | 是不是 |
| 02:27:38,180 | 02:27:40,180 | 可以掛出去 |
| 02:27:40,180 | 02:27:42,180 | 趕出去以後 |
| 02:27:42,180 | 02:27:44,180 | 你不是沒有手段 |
| 02:27:44,180 | 02:27:46,180 | 刑責作為最後手段 |
| 02:27:46,180 | 02:27:48,180 | 這個是最重要的 |
| 02:27:48,180 | 02:27:50,180 | 只要你不要再說了就抓去關 |
| 02:27:50,180 | 02:27:52,180 | 就判刑 |
| 02:27:52,180 | 02:27:54,180 | 這樣對嗎 |
| 02:27:54,180 | 02:27:56,180 | 我相信個案 |
| 02:27:56,180 | 02:27:58,180 | 你相信我就跟你講 |
| 02:27:58,180 | 02:28:00,180 | 我把插回去我再來跟委員報告 |
| 02:28:00,180 | 02:28:02,180 | 你們 |
| 02:28:02,180 | 02:28:04,180 | 認為說 |
| 02:28:04,180 | 02:28:06,180 | 司法院改成先行政後 |
| 02:28:06,180 | 02:28:08,180 | 行責然後把 |
| 02:28:08,180 | 02:28:10,180 | 門檻降低把處罰的 |
| 02:28:10,180 | 02:28:12,180 | 門檻降低動輒得救 |
| 02:28:12,180 | 02:28:14,180 | 罰錢抓去關 |
| 02:28:16,180 | 02:28:18,180 | 為什麼你們要這樣子 |
| 02:28:18,180 | 02:28:20,180 | 來如果當事人 |
| 02:28:20,180 | 02:28:22,180 | 構成侮辱公務員罪 |
| 02:28:22,180 | 02:28:24,180 | 侮辱公務員 |
| 02:28:24,180 | 02:28:26,180 | 刑法140條 |
| 02:28:26,180 | 02:28:28,180 | 可以處理 |
| 02:28:28,180 | 02:28:30,180 | 你們大法官憲判 |
| 02:28:30,180 | 02:28:32,180 | 113年憲判自第五號處理 |
| 02:28:32,180 | 02:28:34,180 | 如果他的行為 |
| 02:28:34,180 | 02:28:36,180 | 不是侮辱公務員 |
| 02:28:36,180 | 02:28:38,180 | 只是講話大聲干擾 |
| 02:28:38,180 | 02:28:40,180 | 秩序你就要抓去關 |
| 02:28:40,180 | 02:28:42,180 | 沒合理 |
| 02:28:42,180 | 02:28:44,180 | 你們憲判 |
| 02:28:44,180 | 02:28:46,180 | 大法官的憲判限縮了 |
| 02:28:46,180 | 02:28:48,180 | 侮辱公務員罪 |
| 02:28:48,180 | 02:28:50,180 | 要求一般公務人員 |
| 02:28:50,180 | 02:28:52,180 | 要忍受侮辱行為 |
| 02:28:52,180 | 02:28:54,180 | 就你們的司法院 |
| 02:28:54,180 | 02:28:56,180 | 今天修法卻毒後法官 |
| 02:28:56,180 | 02:28:58,180 | 要求大家都 |
| 02:28:58,180 | 02:29:00,180 | 不能違反法官在法庭上的命令 |
| 02:29:00,180 | 02:29:02,180 | 否則不是罰錢就是判刑 |
| 02:29:02,180 | 02:29:04,180 | 你們 |
| 02:29:04,180 | 02:29:06,180 | 這種法官高高在上 |
| 02:29:06,180 | 02:29:08,180 | 只許你們州官放火 |
| 02:29:08,180 | 02:29:10,180 | 法官不能夠被侮辱 |
| 02:29:10,180 | 02:29:12,180 | 但是一般公務員要被侮辱 |
| 02:29:12,180 | 02:29:14,180 | 限縮了一般公務員 |
| 02:29:14,180 | 02:29:16,180 | 的侮辱公務員罪 |
| 02:29:16,180 | 02:29:18,180 | 結果你降低了 |
| 02:29:18,180 | 02:29:20,180 | 在法院裡面不聽 |
| 02:29:20,180 | 02:29:22,180 | 法官制止的門檻 |
| 02:29:22,180 | 02:29:24,180 | 所以國際法官說 |
| 02:29:24,180 | 02:29:26,180 | 見官矮三截 |
| 02:29:26,180 | 02:29:28,180 | 你們法院認為說 |
| 02:29:28,180 | 02:29:30,180 | 司法院認為說你們來的 |
| 02:29:30,180 | 02:29:32,180 | 都矮我三截都要聽我的 |
| 02:29:32,180 | 02:29:34,180 | 你們這種 |
| 02:29:34,180 | 02:29:36,180 | 高高在上 |
| 02:29:36,180 | 02:29:38,180 | 只能夠大家比你們位置 |
| 02:29:38,180 | 02:29:40,180 | 還要低都要聽你們的 |
| 02:29:40,180 | 02:29:42,180 | 這種的態度才是問題 |
| 02:29:42,180 | 02:29:44,180 | 所以95條的 |
| 02:29:44,180 | 02:29:46,180 | 修法不是 |
| 02:29:46,180 | 02:29:48,180 | 降低處罰的門檻 |
| 02:29:48,180 | 02:29:50,180 | 動輒就罰錢抓去關 |
| 02:29:50,180 | 02:29:52,180 | 而是應該要刪除 |
| 02:29:52,180 | 02:29:54,180 | 要刪除 |
| 02:29:54,180 | 02:29:56,180 | 我問你喔 |
| 02:29:56,180 | 02:29:58,180 | 這個同樣的情形在檢察官 |
| 02:29:58,180 | 02:30:00,180 | 偵查庭的時候不會發生同樣的 |
| 02:30:00,180 | 02:30:02,180 | 困擾嗎 |
| 02:30:02,180 | 02:30:04,180 | 相同的情形 |
| 02:30:04,180 | 02:30:06,180 | 如果發生在其他行政機關 |
| 02:30:06,180 | 02:30:08,180 | 怎麼處理 |
| 02:30:08,180 | 02:30:10,180 | 你們就動輒把人家抓去關 |
| 02:30:10,180 | 02:30:12,180 | 罰錢請問一下 |
| 02:30:12,180 | 02:30:14,180 | 偵查庭不會嗎 |
| 02:30:14,180 | 02:30:16,180 | 干擾辦公 |
| 02:30:16,180 | 02:30:18,180 | 干擾公務員 |
| 02:30:18,180 | 02:30:20,180 | 辦公的罪責 |
| 02:30:20,180 | 02:30:22,180 | 不是應該相當一次嗎 |
| 02:30:22,180 | 02:30:24,180 | 憑什麼司法院叫高人一等 |
| 02:30:24,180 | 02:30:26,180 | 民眾在偵查庭開庭的時候 |
| 02:30:26,180 | 02:30:28,180 | 不會發生一樣的情形嗎 |
| 02:30:28,180 | 02:30:30,180 | 檢察官在問醫 |
| 02:30:30,180 | 02:30:32,180 | 要就旁邊說不是這樣就 |
| 02:30:32,180 | 02:30:34,180 | 插話不會嗎 |
| 02:30:34,180 | 02:30:36,180 | 會啊 |
| 02:30:36,180 | 02:30:38,180 | 不會大聲嚷嚷嗎 |
| 02:30:38,180 | 02:30:40,180 | 會啊 |
| 02:30:40,180 | 02:30:42,180 | 檢察官開偵查庭也可以發生同樣的情形 |
| 02:30:42,180 | 02:30:44,180 | 但數十年來地檢署從來沒有 |
| 02:30:44,180 | 02:30:46,180 | 適用過法院 |
| 02:30:46,180 | 02:30:48,180 | 組織法第95條 |
| 02:30:48,180 | 02:30:50,180 | 滋擾妨礙秩序 |
| 02:30:50,180 | 02:30:52,180 | 警察官開偵查庭 |
| 02:30:52,180 | 02:30:54,180 | 一樣會碰到 |
| 02:30:54,180 | 02:30:56,180 | 為什麼 |
| 02:30:56,180 | 02:30:58,180 | 他們可以繼續執法 |
| 02:30:58,180 | 02:31:00,180 | 為什麼可以繼續辦公 |
| 02:31:00,180 | 02:31:02,180 | 可以偵查你們就不行 |
| 02:31:02,180 | 02:31:04,180 | 你們就偏偏要高人一等 |
| 02:31:04,180 | 02:31:06,180 | 為什麼你們 |
| 02:31:06,180 | 02:31:08,180 | 需要使用封建社會那種 |
| 02:31:08,180 | 02:31:10,180 | 高高在上唯我獨尊 |
| 02:31:10,180 | 02:31:12,180 | 權力獨大的見官矮三截 |
| 02:31:12,180 | 02:31:14,180 | 的這一種法條 |
| 02:31:14,180 | 02:31:16,180 | 還存在 |
| 02:31:16,180 | 02:31:18,180 | 社會秩序維護法 |
| 02:31:18,180 | 02:31:20,180 | 有沒有工具可以使用 |
| 02:31:20,180 | 02:31:22,180 | 好有沒有 |
| 02:31:22,180 | 02:31:24,180 | 社會秩序維護法 |
| 02:31:24,180 | 02:31:26,180 | 社會秩序維護法 |
| 02:31:26,180 | 02:31:28,180 | 在公共場所 |
| 02:31:28,180 | 02:31:30,180 | 口角紛爭宣法之事不聽 |
| 02:31:30,180 | 02:31:32,180 | 勸職者 |
| 02:31:32,180 | 02:31:34,180 | 罰六千 |
| 02:31:34,180 | 02:31:36,180 | 社會秩序維護法第85條 |
| 02:31:36,180 | 02:31:38,180 | 公務員依法執行職務 |
| 02:31:38,180 | 02:31:40,180 | 以顯然不相當的言辭或行動 |
| 02:31:40,180 | 02:31:42,180 | 相加善未達強暴脅迫侮辱的程度 |
| 02:31:42,180 | 02:31:44,180 | 或者是 |
| 02:31:44,180 | 02:31:46,180 | 在公務員依法執行職務時 |
| 02:31:46,180 | 02:31:48,180 | 職務時 |
| 02:31:48,180 | 02:31:50,180 | 聚眾宣法自妨礙公務者罰一萬兩千二 |
| 02:31:50,180 | 02:31:52,180 | 都不需要你在法院 |
| 02:31:52,180 | 02:31:54,180 | 組織法裡面架構這個法律 |
| 02:31:54,180 | 02:31:56,180 | 你們的法院組織法 |
| 02:31:56,180 | 02:31:58,180 | 888991 |
| 02:31:58,180 | 02:32:00,180 | 審判長可以 |
| 02:32:00,180 | 02:32:02,180 | 命他們抓出去 |
| 02:32:02,180 | 02:32:04,180 | 退出去不准他進來 |
| 02:32:04,180 | 02:32:06,180 | 通通都可以 |
| 02:32:06,180 | 02:32:08,180 | 可以叫法警把他抓出去 |
| 02:32:08,180 | 02:32:10,180 | 你還需要多嚴苛的法律 |
| 02:32:10,180 | 02:32:12,180 | 所以在這裡 |
| 02:32:12,180 | 02:32:14,180 | 我們再問你第二個 |
| 02:32:14,180 | 02:32:16,180 | 第二個 |
| 02:32:16,180 | 02:32:18,180 | 我們 |
| 02:32:18,180 | 02:32:20,180 | 法院組織法 |
| 02:32:20,180 | 02:32:22,180 | 有工具然後大家都 |
| 02:32:22,180 | 02:32:24,180 | 可以處理社會秩序 |
| 02:32:24,180 | 02:32:26,180 | 維護法也有可以處理的 |
| 02:32:26,180 | 02:32:28,180 | 相當的條款 |
| 02:32:28,180 | 02:32:30,180 | 你們偵查庭也遇到 |
| 02:32:30,180 | 02:32:32,180 | 一樣的狀況同樣的公務員 |
| 02:32:32,180 | 02:32:34,180 | 都可以解決 |
| 02:32:34,180 | 02:32:36,180 | 都可以處理你們 |
| 02:32:36,180 | 02:32:38,180 | 為什麼就不行呢 |
| 02:32:38,180 | 02:32:40,180 | 所以如果在這種狀況的話 |
| 02:32:40,180 | 02:32:42,180 | 我們認為不要 |
| 02:32:42,180 | 02:32:44,180 | 一天到晚修法來修理人民 |
| 02:32:46,180 | 02:32:48,180 | 好 |
| 02:32:48,180 | 02:32:50,180 | 我想最後是不是可以請秘書長 |
| 02:32:50,180 | 02:32:52,180 | 不是間短問答 |
| 02:32:52,180 | 02:32:54,180 | 抱歉 |
| 02:32:54,180 | 02:32:56,180 | 還有最後一個 |
| 02:32:56,180 | 02:32:58,180 | 司法院 |
| 02:32:58,180 | 02:33:00,180 | 我們最近包括行政院 |
| 02:33:00,180 | 02:33:02,180 | 包括立法院大家相當 |
| 02:33:02,180 | 02:33:04,180 | 高度關注的獨價的修法 |
| 02:33:04,180 | 02:33:06,180 | 刑法185條之三的修法 |
| 02:33:06,180 | 02:33:08,180 | 這個是行政院跟 |
| 02:33:08,180 | 02:33:10,180 | 司法院要兩院 |
| 02:33:10,180 | 02:33:12,180 | 會審的法案對不對 |
| 02:33:12,180 | 02:33:14,180 | 我有內部的消息說 |
| 02:33:14,180 | 02:33:16,180 | 關於獨價的修法 |
| 02:33:16,180 | 02:33:18,180 | 你們利用行政院 |
| 02:33:18,180 | 02:33:20,180 | 需要跟司法院會審 |
| 02:33:20,180 | 02:33:22,180 | 司法院要求行政院 |
| 02:33:22,180 | 02:33:24,180 | 必須另外同意司法院提出來的 |
| 02:33:24,180 | 02:33:26,180 | 刑事訴訟法的 |
| 02:33:26,180 | 02:33:28,180 | 修法草案 |
| 02:33:28,180 | 02:33:30,180 | 這個草案就是 |
| 02:33:30,180 | 02:33:32,180 | 擴大檢視審判範圍 |
| 02:33:32,180 | 02:33:34,180 | 還說修法要判 |
| 02:33:34,180 | 02:33:36,180 | 要判兩年 |
| 02:33:36,180 | 02:33:38,180 | 有期徒刑以下的案件 |
| 02:33:38,180 | 02:33:40,180 | 法官可以不用寫判決書 |
| 02:33:40,180 | 02:33:42,180 | 直接用宣示 |
| 02:33:42,180 | 02:33:44,180 | 筆錄代替判決 |
| 02:33:44,180 | 02:33:46,180 | 有沒有這一回事 |
| 02:33:46,180 | 02:33:48,180 | 我們絕對沒有這樣 |
| 02:33:48,180 | 02:33:50,180 | 對行政院說這種話 |
| 02:33:50,180 | 02:33:52,180 | 這是內部消息傳出來 |
| 02:33:52,180 | 02:33:54,180 | 被行政院拒絕 |
| 02:33:54,180 | 02:33:56,180 | 現在你們有 |
| 02:33:56,180 | 02:33:58,180 | 未來會不會提出這個修法 |
| 02:33:58,180 | 02:34:00,180 | 當然要提出這個修法 |
| 02:34:00,180 | 02:34:02,180 | 你要提出修法說兩年 |
| 02:34:02,180 | 02:34:04,180 | 有期徒刑以下的案件 |
| 02:34:04,180 | 02:34:06,180 | 法官不用寫判決書 |
| 02:34:06,180 | 02:34:08,180 | 直接用宣示筆錄代替判決 |
| 02:34:08,180 | 02:34:10,180 | 未來判決兩年以下 |
| 02:34:10,180 | 02:34:12,180 | 只要寫毛毛毛你被判刑兩年了 |
| 02:34:12,180 | 02:34:14,180 | 什麼理由什麼原因 |
| 02:34:14,180 | 02:34:16,180 | 不用寫是不是 |
| 02:34:16,180 | 02:34:18,180 | 裡面有其他要件 |
| 02:34:18,180 | 02:34:20,180 | 不是如委員所說的這麼簡單 |
| 02:34:20,180 | 02:34:22,180 | 最好是如此 |
| 02:34:22,180 | 02:34:24,180 | 刑法第185條之三的 |
| 02:34:24,180 | 02:34:26,180 | 獨價的修法 |
| 02:34:26,180 | 02:34:28,180 | 是攸關全國用路人的安全 |
| 02:34:28,180 | 02:34:30,180 | 避免無辜的民眾的上命 |
| 02:34:30,180 | 02:34:32,180 | 是要嚴懲獨價 |
| 02:34:32,180 | 02:34:34,180 | 絕對司法院怎麼可以 |
| 02:34:34,180 | 02:34:36,180 | 全民的事情去當籌碼 |
| 02:34:36,180 | 02:34:38,180 | 要求行政院支持你們的修法 |
| 02:34:38,180 | 02:34:40,180 | 然後去交換 |
| 02:34:40,180 | 02:34:42,180 | 讓法官不用寫判決的修法 |
| 02:34:42,180 | 02:34:44,180 | 我覺得那根本就來侮辱我們 |
| 02:34:44,180 | 02:34:46,180 | 司法改革要越改越好 |
| 02:34:46,180 | 02:34:48,180 | 好 |
| 02:34:48,180 | 02:34:50,180 | 不是在這裡改到 |
| 02:34:50,180 | 02:34:52,180 | 法官不用寫判決 |
| 02:34:52,180 | 02:34:54,180 | 你要改這樣乾脆 |
| 02:34:54,180 | 02:34:56,180 | 不用兩年以下全部都不用 |
| 02:34:56,180 | 02:34:58,180 | 你們曾經提過 |
| 02:34:58,180 | 02:35:00,180 | 要用AI寫判決 |
| 02:35:00,180 | 02:35:02,180 | 沒有那是古時候一個 |
| 02:35:02,180 | 02:35:04,180 | 安本不是 |
| 02:35:04,180 | 02:35:06,180 | 不可能寫判決的 |
| 02:35:06,180 | 02:35:08,180 | 你們曾經就提這個預算安 |
| 02:35:08,180 | 02:35:10,180 | 被我砍掉了怎麼會沒有 |
| 02:35:10,180 | 02:35:12,180 | 我想你委員 |
| 02:35:12,180 | 02:35:14,180 | 如果這樣子行政機關 |
| 02:35:14,180 | 02:35:16,180 | 做成行政處分可不可以不要寫理由 |
| 02:35:16,180 | 02:35:18,180 | 等到你人民要溯願的時候 |
| 02:35:18,180 | 02:35:20,180 | 我再寫理由可以嗎 |
| 02:35:20,180 | 02:35:22,180 | 你沒有給我判決的理由 |
| 02:35:22,180 | 02:35:24,180 | 我怎麼會知道要不要上訴 |
| 02:35:24,180 | 02:35:26,180 | 都一定有其他的要件 |
| 02:35:26,180 | 02:35:28,180 | 不是如同委員所說的 |
| 02:35:28,180 | 02:35:30,180 | 這麼簡單 |
| 02:35:30,180 | 02:35:32,180 | 這只是你的口頭上的講 |
| 02:35:32,180 | 02:35:34,180 | 不好聽啦 |
| 02:35:34,180 | 02:35:36,180 | 總的言之你們就是希望 |
| 02:35:36,180 | 02:35:38,180 | 兩年以下法官不用寫判決 |
| 02:35:38,180 | 02:35:40,180 | 你們還要修法 |
| 02:35:40,180 | 02:35:42,180 | 你在這裡承認你要修這個法 |
| 02:35:42,180 | 02:35:44,180 | 你們在上次AI寫判決 |
| 02:35:44,180 | 02:35:46,180 | 因為你們根本沒有能力訓練AI |
| 02:35:46,180 | 02:35:48,180 | 然後你們只想讓法官 |
| 02:35:48,180 | 02:35:50,180 | 享受判決人家生死的這個權利 |
| 02:35:50,180 | 02:35:52,180 | 兩年以下 |
| 02:35:52,180 | 02:35:54,180 | 為什麼兩年以下不用寫判決理由 |
| 02:35:54,180 | 02:35:56,180 | 然後你們為什麼 |
| 02:35:56,180 | 02:35:58,180 | 寫判決理由是法 |
| 02:35:58,180 | 02:36:00,180 | 你們為什麼寫判決理由是法官 |
| 02:36:00,180 | 02:36:02,180 | 應該負起 |
| 02:36:02,180 | 02:36:04,180 | 跟人家說理的義務 |
| 02:36:04,180 | 02:36:06,180 | 你擁有判決的 |
| 02:36:06,180 | 02:36:08,180 | 判刑的權利 |
| 02:36:08,180 | 02:36:10,180 | 但你要告訴人家 |
| 02:36:10,180 | 02:36:12,180 | 為什麼被判的義務 |
| 02:36:12,180 | 02:36:14,180 | 這個才是正當的 |
| 02:36:14,180 | 02:36:16,180 | 先不寫並沒有說都不寫 |
| 02:36:16,180 | 02:36:18,180 | 先不寫 |
| 02:36:18,180 | 02:36:20,180 | 兩年以下 |
| 02:36:20,180 | 02:36:22,180 | 被冤枉的人 |
| 02:36:22,180 | 02:36:24,180 | 要知道自己被冤枉在哪裡 |
| 02:36:24,180 | 02:36:26,180 | 你們覺得兩年以下 |
| 02:36:26,180 | 02:36:28,180 | 很輕的寫 |
| 02:36:28,180 | 02:36:30,180 | 事實上不是 |
| 02:36:30,180 | 02:36:32,180 | 對當事人而言都不是 |
| 02:36:32,180 | 02:36:34,180 | 我們再來 |
| 02:36:34,180 | 02:36:36,180 | 討論這個議題 |
| 02:36:36,180 | 02:36:38,180 | 因為讀違法的剛剛那個條文 |
| 02:36:38,180 | 02:36:40,180 | 他們很過分 |
| 02:36:40,180 | 02:36:42,180 | 他們拿這個去請行政院 |
| 02:36:42,180 | 02:36:44,180 | 要跟他們說你要剔除 |
| 02:36:44,180 | 02:36:46,180 | 被行政院拒絕 |
| 02:36:46,180 | 02:36:48,180 | 被行政院拒絕 |
| 02:36:48,180 | 02:36:50,180 | 現在行政院很多法案都不送 |
| 02:36:50,180 | 02:36:52,180 | 現在司法院說 |
| 02:36:52,180 | 02:36:54,180 | 他要 |
| 02:36:54,180 | 02:36:56,180 | 他要送兩年判刑 |
| 02:36:56,180 | 02:36:58,180 | 都不用寫判決理由 |
| 02:36:58,180 | 02:37:00,180 | 你們去看全國的人民 |
| 02:37:00,180 | 02:37:02,180 | 可以接受判決 |
| 02:37:02,180 | 02:37:04,180 | 判刑兩年以下 |
| 02:37:04,180 | 02:37:06,180 | 都不用寫理由 |
| 02:37:06,180 | 02:37:08,180 | 我們之後我們再來討論 |
| 02:37:08,180 | 02:37:10,180 | 這個議題 |
| 02:37:10,180 | 02:37:12,180 | 今天完全不同的題目 |
| 02:37:12,180 | 02:37:14,180 | 端出來看就知道了 |
| 02:37:14,180 | 02:37:16,180 | 端出來看就知道了 |
| 02:37:16,180 | 02:37:18,180 | 為什麼 |
| 02:37:18,180 | 02:37:20,180 | 行政院不支持 |
| 02:37:20,180 | 02:37:22,180 | 因為太違反社會 |
| 02:37:22,180 | 02:37:24,180 | 我們都接受了觀感了 |
| 02:37:24,180 | 02:37:26,180 | 好謝謝林委員 |
| 02:37:26,180 | 02:37:28,180 | 謝謝秘書長 |
| 02:37:28,180 | 02:37:30,180 | 我們就下一次再討論這個議題 |
| 02:37:30,180 | 02:37:32,180 | 接下來我們就 |
| 02:37:32,180 | 02:37:34,180 | 有請范雲委員發言 |
| 02:37:34,180 | 02:37:36,180 | 對不起還有陳冠廷委員 |
| 02:37:36,180 | 02:37:38,180 | 陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員不在 |
| 02:37:38,180 | 02:37:40,180 | 接下來有請范雲委員 |
| 02:37:48,180 | 02:37:50,180 | 主席那個剛剛 |
| 02:37:50,180 | 02:37:52,180 | 林淑芬委員講的議題 |
| 02:37:52,180 | 02:37:54,180 | 非常的重要 |
| 02:37:54,180 | 02:37:56,180 | 但是就是說我是不是也可以 |
| 02:37:56,180 | 02:37:58,180 | 那個比照講久一點 |
| 02:37:58,180 | 02:38:00,180 | 要不然會造成就是 |
| 02:38:00,180 | 02:38:02,180 | 我想這個范雲委員 |
| 02:38:02,180 | 02:38:04,180 | 是我們本委員會的委員 |
| 02:38:04,180 | 02:38:06,180 | 所以本委員對委員 |
| 02:38:06,180 | 02:38:08,180 | 應該通常時間更長吧 |
| 02:38:08,180 | 02:38:10,180 | 所以就十分鐘之後可以再延長 |
| 02:38:10,180 | 02:38:12,180 | 我是對林淑芬委員 |
| 02:38:12,180 | 02:38:14,180 | 有特別的給她 |
| 02:38:14,180 | 02:38:16,180 | 特別的優惠就是比照 |
| 02:38:16,180 | 02:38:18,180 | 像是我們本委員會的發言時間 |
| 02:38:18,180 | 02:38:20,180 | 但是她今天也發言時間 |
| 02:38:20,180 | 02:38:22,180 | 也真的超出太久了 |
| 02:38:22,180 | 02:38:24,180 | 了解了解好麻煩她 |
| 02:38:24,180 | 02:38:26,180 | 我想我有請高秘書長 |
| 02:38:26,180 | 02:38:28,180 | 有請高秘書長 |
| 02:38:34,180 | 02:38:36,180 | 高秘書長好 |
| 02:38:36,180 | 02:38:38,180 | 我想您對那個CRPT |
| 02:38:38,180 | 02:38:40,180 | 國內法化 |
| 02:38:40,180 | 02:38:42,180 | 已經滿十二年這一塊您了不了解呢 |
| 02:38:42,180 | 02:38:44,180 | 關於這部分 |
| 02:38:44,180 | 02:38:46,180 | 因為我真的 |
| 02:38:46,180 | 02:38:48,180 | 真的沒有從事少嘉 |
| 02:38:48,180 | 02:38:50,180 | 我請我們少嘉廳來跟你做 |
| 02:38:50,180 | 02:38:52,180 | 詳細的說明 |
| 02:38:52,180 | 02:38:54,180 | 這個應該不是只是少嘉廳吧 |
| 02:38:54,180 | 02:38:56,180 | 對還包括我們新陳廳 |
| 02:38:56,180 | 02:38:58,180 | 都有 |
| 02:38:58,180 | 02:39:00,180 | 所以那個秘書長不是很了解 |
| 02:39:00,180 | 02:39:02,180 | 好沒關係 |
| 02:39:02,180 | 02:39:04,180 | 我就稍微解釋一下好不好 |
| 02:39:04,180 | 02:39:06,180 | 就是CRPT裡面 |
| 02:39:06,180 | 02:39:08,180 | 就CRPT |
| 02:39:08,180 | 02:39:10,180 | 當然是這在我們馬總統 |
| 02:39:10,180 | 02:39:12,180 | 任內就簽署的 |
| 02:39:12,180 | 02:39:14,180 | 那當時國會 |
| 02:39:14,180 | 02:39:16,180 | 國會就是民進黨是少數 |
| 02:39:16,180 | 02:39:18,180 | 那當然也全力支持 |
| 02:39:18,180 | 02:39:20,180 | 所以當時的國會是不分黨派 |
| 02:39:20,180 | 02:39:22,180 | 就把這個CRPT就國內法化 |
| 02:39:22,180 | 02:39:24,180 | 那裡面有提到合理調整 |
| 02:39:24,180 | 02:39:26,180 | 合理調整是什麼意思 |
| 02:39:26,180 | 02:39:28,180 | 它是身心障礙者 |
| 02:39:28,180 | 02:39:30,180 | 非常重要的一個人權 |
| 02:39:30,180 | 02:39:32,180 | 的一部分 |
| 02:39:32,180 | 02:39:34,180 | 它指的是根據具體 |
| 02:39:34,180 | 02:39:36,180 | 需要與不造成過度 |
| 02:39:36,180 | 02:39:38,180 | 或不當負擔之情況下 |
| 02:39:38,180 | 02:39:40,180 | 進行必要及 |
| 02:39:40,180 | 02:39:42,180 | 適當之修改與調整 |
| 02:39:42,180 | 02:39:44,180 | 以確保身心障礙者 |
| 02:39:44,180 | 02:39:46,180 | 在與其他人平等基礎上 |
| 02:39:46,180 | 02:39:48,180 | 享有或行使 |
| 02:39:48,180 | 02:39:50,180 | 所有人權及基本自由 |
| 02:39:50,180 | 02:39:52,180 | 也就是說它是搭配 |
| 02:39:52,180 | 02:39:54,180 | 我們一般的無障礙 |
| 02:39:54,180 | 02:39:56,180 | 因為無障礙是通案 |
| 02:39:56,180 | 02:39:58,180 | 那可是有些地方可能 |
| 02:39:58,180 | 02:40:00,180 | 還是會有障礙 |
| 02:40:00,180 | 02:40:02,180 | 那你針對個案可以及時的處理 |
| 02:40:02,180 | 02:40:04,180 | 所以它是一個非常重要的權利 |
| 02:40:04,180 | 02:40:06,180 | 譬如好像是 |
| 02:40:06,180 | 02:40:08,180 | 職場上 |
| 02:40:08,180 | 02:40:10,180 | 那你如果有合理調整的話 |
| 02:40:10,180 | 02:40:12,180 | 其實身心障礙者 |
| 02:40:12,180 | 02:40:14,180 | 他可以適應的工作範圍 |
| 02:40:14,180 | 02:40:16,180 | 是非常廣的 |
| 02:40:16,180 | 02:40:18,180 | 那如果高秘書長 |
| 02:40:18,180 | 02:40:20,180 | 了解這點的話 |
| 02:40:20,180 | 02:40:22,180 | 我就要提到喔 |
| 02:40:22,180 | 02:40:24,180 | 為什麼我想要問的是您喔 |
| 02:40:24,180 | 02:40:26,180 | 而不是只有那個少嘉廳喔 |
| 02:40:26,180 | 02:40:28,180 | 主要就是現在 |
| 02:40:28,180 | 02:40:30,180 | 職場上的合理調整的爭議 |
| 02:40:30,180 | 02:40:32,180 | 已經成為司法的 |
| 02:40:32,180 | 02:40:34,180 | 新興議題了 |
| 02:40:34,180 | 02:40:36,180 | 那我辦公室找了兩個新聞喔 |
| 02:40:36,180 | 02:40:38,180 | 一個是今年的一個是去年的 |
| 02:40:38,180 | 02:40:40,180 | 一個是台鐵喔 |
| 02:40:40,180 | 02:40:42,180 | 台鐵為合理調整之前深障員工 |
| 02:40:42,180 | 02:40:44,180 | 後來這個員工就去告了 |
| 02:40:44,180 | 02:40:46,180 | 那法院判 |
| 02:40:46,180 | 02:40:48,180 | 僱傭關係存在 |
| 02:40:48,180 | 02:40:50,180 | 那應該如果沒有理解錯誤的話 |
| 02:40:50,180 | 02:40:52,180 | 就是台鐵輸了 |
| 02:40:52,180 | 02:40:54,180 | 那這邊呢是竹科經理 |
| 02:40:54,180 | 02:40:56,180 | 罹患漸凍症 |
| 02:40:56,180 | 02:40:58,180 | 遭解僱提告 |
| 02:40:58,180 | 02:41:00,180 | 法官說無法說 |
| 02:41:00,180 | 02:41:02,180 | 法官就是判這個 |
| 02:41:02,180 | 02:41:04,180 | 深障者 |
| 02:41:04,180 | 02:41:06,180 | 他是敗訴 |
| 02:41:06,180 | 02:41:08,180 | 那我們知道其實以我們 |
| 02:41:08,180 | 02:41:10,180 | 大家都認識的 |
| 02:41:10,180 | 02:41:12,180 | 俊翰律師喔他之前是 |
| 02:41:12,180 | 02:41:14,180 | 民進黨的不分區候選人 |
| 02:41:14,180 | 02:41:16,180 | 那他其實是可以 |
| 02:41:16,180 | 02:41:18,180 | 執行工作的喔 |
| 02:41:18,180 | 02:41:20,180 | 只要他的器材跟各方面的 |
| 02:41:20,180 | 02:41:22,180 | 協助是足夠的話 |
| 02:41:22,180 | 02:41:24,180 | 那所以不代表就是 |
| 02:41:24,180 | 02:41:26,180 | 所有的這些都無法提供勞務 |
| 02:41:26,180 | 02:41:28,180 | 可是我們看到在 |
| 02:41:28,180 | 02:41:30,180 | 司法上其實 |
| 02:41:30,180 | 02:41:32,180 | 告到司法的時候 |
| 02:41:32,180 | 02:41:34,180 | 結果經常是不一樣的 |
| 02:41:34,180 | 02:41:36,180 | 那當然您可能會說 |
| 02:41:36,180 | 02:41:38,180 | 這兩個個案情況不一樣 |
| 02:41:38,180 | 02:41:40,180 | 我們現在不能這樣比較喔 |
| 02:41:40,180 | 02:41:42,180 | 那等於是我要提的事情是喔 |
| 02:41:42,180 | 02:41:44,180 | 這個真的跟司法有很大的關係啦 |
| 02:41:44,180 | 02:41:46,180 | 因為目前我們看一下 |
| 02:41:46,180 | 02:41:48,180 | 如果雇主沒有提供 |
| 02:41:48,180 | 02:41:50,180 | 障礙勞工合理調整的話 |
| 02:41:50,180 | 02:41:52,180 | 法律的救濟方式 |
| 02:41:52,180 | 02:41:54,180 | 就是這樣 |
| 02:41:54,180 | 02:41:56,180 | 依照就業歧視就業服務法第五條 |
| 02:41:56,180 | 02:41:58,180 | 那不能夠對身心障礙 |
| 02:41:58,180 | 02:42:00,180 | 等身分予以歧視 |
| 02:42:00,180 | 02:42:02,180 | 所以他可以第一關 |
| 02:42:02,180 | 02:42:04,180 | 到地方主管機關提出 |
| 02:42:04,180 | 02:42:06,180 | 就業歧視申訴 |
| 02:42:06,180 | 02:42:08,180 | 比如說到勞工局喔等等 |
| 02:42:08,180 | 02:42:10,180 | 那然後地方勞工 |
| 02:42:10,180 | 02:42:12,180 | 行政主管機關有個 |
| 02:42:12,180 | 02:42:14,180 | 就業歧視評議委員會 |
| 02:42:14,180 | 02:42:16,180 | 他審議後會做成決議 |
| 02:42:16,180 | 02:42:18,180 | 那有些在這一關就解決了 |
| 02:42:18,180 | 02:42:20,180 | 對不對可是如果在這一關 |
| 02:42:20,180 | 02:42:22,180 | 沒有辦法解決的話事實上 |
| 02:42:22,180 | 02:42:24,180 | 不符決議的時候 |
| 02:42:24,180 | 02:42:26,180 | 不管是老闆 |
| 02:42:26,180 | 02:42:28,180 | 或者是員工都可以再 |
| 02:42:28,180 | 02:42:30,180 | 提出訴願那再來 |
| 02:42:30,180 | 02:42:32,180 | 那這樣您就非常熟悉了 |
| 02:42:32,180 | 02:42:34,180 | 行政訴訟這塊就出現了 |
| 02:42:34,180 | 02:42:36,180 | 所以司法等於是 |
| 02:42:36,180 | 02:42:38,180 | 障礙者工作權的 |
| 02:42:38,180 | 02:42:40,180 | 最後一道防線耶 |
| 02:42:40,180 | 02:42:42,180 | 秘書長對這個流程應該沒有任何疑義吧 |
| 02:42:42,180 | 02:42:44,180 | 沒有這個除了行政訴訟 |
| 02:42:44,180 | 02:42:46,180 | 也會有民事訴訟 |
| 02:42:46,180 | 02:42:48,180 | 對所以他會是重要的 |
| 02:42:48,180 | 02:42:50,180 | 司法議題這個您認同吧 |
| 02:42:50,180 | 02:42:52,180 | 非常認同好 |
| 02:42:52,180 | 02:42:54,180 | 那所以我現在就想問的是喔 |
| 02:42:54,180 | 02:42:56,180 | 請問目前喔 |
| 02:42:56,180 | 02:42:58,180 | 雇主為障礙勞工提供 |
| 02:42:58,180 | 02:43:00,180 | 調整的這個義務的爭議 |
| 02:43:00,180 | 02:43:02,180 | 您認為司法裁判的 |
| 02:43:02,180 | 02:43:04,180 | 實務上是不是已經準備好了 |
| 02:43:04,180 | 02:43:06,180 | 是不是已經穩定跟成熟了嗎 |
| 02:43:06,180 | 02:43:08,180 | 跟委員報告 |
| 02:43:08,180 | 02:43:10,180 | 雖然CRPD我不是很熟 |
| 02:43:10,180 | 02:43:12,180 | 可是我在辦訴訟案件裡面 |
| 02:43:12,180 | 02:43:14,180 | 也很多這種案件 |
| 02:43:14,180 | 02:43:16,180 | 其實法官最困難的是 |
| 02:43:16,180 | 02:43:18,180 | 要認定提供 |
| 02:43:18,180 | 02:43:20,180 | 合理調整的義務 |
| 02:43:20,180 | 02:43:22,180 | 這個委員指導的這個 |
| 02:43:22,180 | 02:43:24,180 | 其實這個一直在發展中 |
| 02:43:24,180 | 02:43:26,180 | 不是說這個議題 |
| 02:43:26,180 | 02:43:28,180 | 在發展中 |
| 02:43:28,180 | 02:43:30,180 | 而是說法官的對於 |
| 02:43:30,180 | 02:43:34,180 | 所謂合理調整義務的範圍 |
| 02:43:34,180 | 02:43:36,180 | 這種認定真的會影響到 |
| 02:43:36,180 | 02:43:40,180 | 這個裁判的勝訴 |
| 02:43:40,180 | 02:43:42,180 | 那這個我不敢說 |
| 02:43:42,180 | 02:43:44,180 | 已經成熟穩定 |
| 02:43:44,180 | 02:43:46,180 | 我們是一直在提醒 |
| 02:43:46,180 | 02:43:48,180 | 我們勞動法庭還有行政訴訟 |
| 02:43:48,180 | 02:43:50,180 | 這個區塊 |
| 02:43:50,180 | 02:43:52,180 | 法官一定 |
| 02:43:52,180 | 02:43:54,180 | 要放下我們 |
| 02:43:54,180 | 02:43:56,180 | 這些人跟我們不一樣 |
| 02:43:56,180 | 02:43:58,180 | 這種想法去 |
| 02:43:58,180 | 02:44:01,180 | 增進自己對於所謂 |
| 02:44:01,180 | 02:44:04,180 | 提供合理調整義務的 |
| 02:44:04,180 | 02:44:06,180 | 範圍要放寬 |
| 02:44:06,180 | 02:44:09,180 | 謝謝高秘書長 |
| 02:44:09,180 | 02:44:10,680 | 您講得很清楚喔 |
| 02:44:10,680 | 02:44:13,680 | 您認為現在的爭議是在於 |
| 02:44:13,680 | 02:44:16,180 | 合理調整的內容是什麼 |
| 02:44:16,180 | 02:44:18,180 | 但是大家都已經知道 |
| 02:44:18,180 | 02:44:19,180 | 這個是義務了 |
| 02:44:19,180 | 02:44:21,180 | 所以現在的爭議是在 |
| 02:44:21,180 | 02:44:23,180 | 這個合理調整是義務 |
| 02:44:23,180 | 02:44:25,180 | 可是怎麼樣的做法 |
| 02:44:25,180 | 02:44:27,180 | 可以被當成是 |
| 02:44:27,180 | 02:44:29,180 | 他做了這個義務是不是 |
| 02:44:29,180 | 02:44:31,180 | 這是您的認定 |
| 02:44:31,180 | 02:44:33,180 | 那我要告訴高秘書長 |
| 02:44:33,180 | 02:44:37,180 | 貴司法體系目前並不是這樣 |
| 02:44:37,180 | 02:44:39,180 | 你看我們這個辦公室做的研究 |
| 02:44:39,180 | 02:44:41,180 | 2020年你們的 |
| 02:44:41,180 | 02:44:44,180 | 高雄高等行政法院的判決 |
| 02:44:44,180 | 02:44:47,180 | 他不認為合理調整是義務 |
| 02:44:47,180 | 02:44:50,180 | 他覺得那個是優惠性措施 |
| 02:44:50,180 | 02:44:52,180 | 他承認有CRPD |
| 02:44:52,180 | 02:44:55,180 | 他不認為能夠指導雇主 |
| 02:44:55,180 | 02:44:57,180 | 有合理調整義務 |
| 02:44:57,180 | 02:44:58,180 | 所以他完全不理這個法 |
| 02:44:58,180 | 02:45:00,180 | 他只用勞動基準法 |
| 02:45:00,180 | 02:45:03,180 | 就業服務法這個不是專為 |
| 02:45:03,180 | 02:45:06,180 | 就是身障者制定的法 |
| 02:45:06,180 | 02:45:08,180 | 那可是很有趣了 |
| 02:45:08,180 | 02:45:12,180 | 過了一年最高行政法院的判決 |
| 02:45:12,180 | 02:45:13,180 | 又不一樣了 |
| 02:45:13,180 | 02:45:15,180 | 就說這個不是什麼優惠 |
| 02:45:15,180 | 02:45:16,180 | 這不是額外的 |
| 02:45:16,180 | 02:45:20,180 | 他是實踐平等的積極義務 |
| 02:45:20,180 | 02:45:24,180 | 而且他強調CRPD已經國內法劃了 |
| 02:45:24,180 | 02:45:27,180 | 各機關都應該要符合公約的保障 |
| 02:45:27,180 | 02:45:30,180 | 還引用了CRPD第二條第五條 |
| 02:45:30,180 | 02:45:33,180 | 特別援引CRPD第六號一般性意見 |
| 02:45:33,180 | 02:45:35,180 | 所以兩次判決不一樣 |
| 02:45:35,180 | 02:45:39,180 | 請問一下高雄高等行政法院的判決 |
| 02:45:39,180 | 02:45:41,180 | 為什麼可以跟2021年 |
| 02:45:41,180 | 02:45:43,180 | 最高行政法院判決不一樣 |
| 02:45:43,180 | 02:45:46,180 | 這不是秘書長講的那個狀況 |
| 02:45:46,180 | 02:45:48,180 | 最高行政法院是2021 |
| 02:45:48,180 | 02:45:50,180 | 所以最高行政法院 |
| 02:45:50,180 | 02:45:52,180 | 他就指示出要這樣去思考 |
| 02:45:52,180 | 02:45:53,180 | 那不是 |
| 02:45:53,180 | 02:45:55,180 | 那我今天我的意思是說 |
| 02:45:55,180 | 02:45:56,180 | 那我今天如果是到 |
| 02:45:56,180 | 02:45:59,180 | 高雄高等行政法院判決 |
| 02:45:59,180 | 02:46:01,180 | 那我不是就比較倒楣嗎 |
| 02:46:01,180 | 02:46:02,180 | 我還得要繼續 |
| 02:46:02,180 | 02:46:03,180 | 剛委員報告 |
| 02:46:03,180 | 02:46:04,180 | 其實我們事實上是法院 |
| 02:46:04,180 | 02:46:05,180 | 為什麼不能在那裡就 |
| 02:46:05,180 | 02:46:07,180 | 就如同您剛所講 |
| 02:46:07,180 | 02:46:08,180 | 就認定他是義務了 |
| 02:46:08,180 | 02:46:09,180 | 對對對 |
| 02:46:09,180 | 02:46:11,180 | 所以最高行政法院 |
| 02:46:11,180 | 02:46:12,180 | 他已經指出了 |
| 02:46:12,180 | 02:46:14,180 | 這應該是我認為 |
| 02:46:14,180 | 02:46:16,180 | 他這應該是一個法律見解了 |
| 02:46:16,180 | 02:46:17,180 | 他這個法律見解 |
| 02:46:17,180 | 02:46:20,180 | 在市市審法院都會去重視 |
| 02:46:20,180 | 02:46:22,180 | 那個三審的法律見解 |
| 02:46:22,180 | 02:46:25,180 | 2020所以2021就有這樣的 |
| 02:46:25,180 | 02:46:27,180 | 已經在改變中了 |
| 02:46:27,180 | 02:46:28,180 | 好 |
| 02:46:28,180 | 02:46:30,180 | 我們簽署這個CRPD |
| 02:46:30,180 | 02:46:33,180 | 是哪一年您知道嗎 |
| 02:46:35,180 | 02:46:36,180 | 2014是不是 |
| 02:46:36,180 | 02:46:38,180 | 對2014年就國內法化 |
| 02:46:38,180 | 02:46:39,180 | 是啊 |
| 02:46:39,180 | 02:46:40,180 | 我的意思是說 |
| 02:46:40,180 | 02:46:42,180 | 2020年這個已經過了6年了 |
| 02:46:42,180 | 02:46:44,180 | 那這個真的是有個個案 |
| 02:46:44,180 | 02:46:46,180 | 原本是一個市帳者 |
| 02:46:46,180 | 02:46:48,180 | 平常以行走的方式 |
| 02:46:48,180 | 02:46:50,180 | 進行開單的工作 |
| 02:46:50,180 | 02:46:52,180 | 後來他小腿受傷 |
| 02:46:52,180 | 02:46:54,180 | 他本來是市帳是可以開單 |
| 02:46:54,180 | 02:46:55,180 | 小腿受傷 |
| 02:46:55,180 | 02:46:57,180 | 他希望轉調內勤服務 |
| 02:46:57,180 | 02:47:00,180 | 結果高等行政法院這個高雄的 |
| 02:47:00,180 | 02:47:04,180 | 認定交通局沒有違反合理調整義務 |
| 02:47:04,180 | 02:47:06,180 | 沒有構成歧視 |
| 02:47:06,180 | 02:47:08,180 | 那他後來就很辛苦 |
| 02:47:08,180 | 02:47:10,180 | 還要上訴到最高行政法院 |
| 02:47:10,180 | 02:47:12,180 | 結果法院就認定 |
| 02:47:12,180 | 02:47:14,180 | 原審沒有仔細檢視 |
| 02:47:14,180 | 02:47:17,180 | 交通局是否已經進合理調整的義務 |
| 02:47:17,180 | 02:47:20,180 | 才把原判決廢棄發揮 |
| 02:47:20,180 | 02:47:22,180 | 那我要講的事情是 |
| 02:47:22,180 | 02:47:24,180 | 為什麼他要這麼的辛苦 |
| 02:47:24,180 | 02:47:26,180 | 到如果他在高雄這一端 |
| 02:47:26,180 | 02:47:27,180 | 高等行政法院判決 |
| 02:47:27,180 | 02:47:30,180 | 2020年他就放棄了呢 |
| 02:47:30,180 | 02:47:31,180 | 當然我們希望 |
| 02:47:31,180 | 02:47:33,180 | 我個人也希望 |
| 02:47:33,180 | 02:47:34,180 | 高雄高等行政法院 |
| 02:47:34,180 | 02:47:37,180 | 為什麼沒有採最高行政法院的意見 |
| 02:47:37,180 | 02:47:38,180 | 最高行政法院 |
| 02:47:38,180 | 02:47:41,180 | 他就指證了你將來 |
| 02:47:41,180 | 02:47:43,180 | 關於這類案件 |
| 02:47:43,180 | 02:47:44,180 | 你的思考方向 |
| 02:47:44,180 | 02:47:46,180 | 你的法律見解方向 |
| 02:47:46,180 | 02:47:47,180 | 我相信已經指出一個 |
| 02:47:47,180 | 02:47:49,180 | 非常清楚的道路了 |
| 02:47:49,180 | 02:47:52,180 | 對 所以您剛所講的那個 |
| 02:47:52,180 | 02:47:55,180 | 大家都認知到這是義務 |
| 02:47:55,180 | 02:47:58,180 | 只是對於合理調整的內容 |
| 02:47:58,180 | 02:48:00,180 | 有不同的見解 |
| 02:48:00,180 | 02:48:02,180 | 這件事情沒有發生 |
| 02:48:02,180 | 02:48:04,180 | 就拿我剛講2020已經是 |
| 02:48:04,180 | 02:48:07,180 | 高雄高等行政法院的判決了 |
| 02:48:07,180 | 02:48:09,180 | 我跟委員報告說 |
| 02:48:09,180 | 02:48:12,180 | 不是說判決所有判決 |
| 02:48:12,180 | 02:48:14,180 | 都如同我的見解一樣 |
| 02:48:14,180 | 02:48:16,180 | 沒錯 所以我才說 |
| 02:48:16,180 | 02:48:18,180 | 這不是你的見解 |
| 02:48:18,180 | 02:48:22,180 | 這是CRPD是有國內法化的法律 |
| 02:48:22,180 | 02:48:23,180 | 名聞規定 |
| 02:48:23,180 | 02:48:24,180 | 所以跟委員報告 |
| 02:48:24,180 | 02:48:26,180 | 他無視於有這個法律的存在 |
| 02:48:26,180 | 02:48:27,180 | 對 沒錯 |
| 02:48:27,180 | 02:48:29,180 | 他引用的是其他的法令 |
| 02:48:29,180 | 02:48:31,180 | 我不敢講 他無視了 |
| 02:48:31,180 | 02:48:32,180 | 他可能沒有注意 |
| 02:48:32,180 | 02:48:35,180 | 因為個案我真的很難解釋 |
| 02:48:35,180 | 02:48:36,180 | 沒有讀過 |
| 02:48:36,180 | 02:48:37,180 | 我不敢講 |
| 02:48:37,180 | 02:48:39,180 | 只是最少 |
| 02:48:39,180 | 02:48:41,180 | 關於CRPD |
| 02:48:41,180 | 02:48:45,180 | 我們是法院非常重視 |
| 02:48:45,180 | 02:48:46,180 | 真的非常重視 |
| 02:48:46,180 | 02:48:50,180 | 那秘書長 您說非常重視 |
| 02:48:50,180 | 02:48:52,180 | 我有一點點懷疑 |
| 02:48:52,180 | 02:48:54,180 | 為什麼 因為您自己都不熟悉 |
| 02:48:54,180 | 02:48:55,180 | 沒有 跟委員 |
| 02:48:55,180 | 02:48:56,180 | 我只是 |
| 02:48:56,180 | 02:48:57,180 | 你剛剛不是說你不熟悉 |
| 02:48:57,180 | 02:48:58,180 | 要那個少嘉廳的 |
| 02:48:58,180 | 02:49:02,180 | 我不能夠很自誇說我熟悉 |
| 02:49:02,180 | 02:49:05,180 | CRPD其實是落實在 |
| 02:49:05,180 | 02:49:06,180 | 我們的判決裡面 |
| 02:49:06,180 | 02:49:07,180 | 尤其我們最近 |
| 02:49:07,180 | 02:49:09,180 | 委員應該有看到新聞 |
| 02:49:09,180 | 02:49:12,180 | 我們關於這些朋友們 |
| 02:49:12,180 | 02:49:14,180 | 能夠禁用法院的 |
| 02:49:14,180 | 02:49:15,180 | 這個司法禁用 |
| 02:49:15,180 | 02:49:16,180 | 我們一直在強調 |
| 02:49:16,180 | 02:49:19,180 | 其實我覺得這個重點是 |
| 02:49:19,180 | 02:49:20,180 | 我要放在心裡 |
| 02:49:20,180 | 02:49:22,180 | 我要放在我的sense裡面 |
| 02:49:22,180 | 02:49:26,180 | 我要放在一切我的作為裡面 |
| 02:49:26,180 | 02:49:28,180 | 我講的是這個部分 |
| 02:49:28,180 | 02:49:31,180 | 那我今天想問的是 |
| 02:49:31,180 | 02:49:32,180 | 那您作為秘書長 |
| 02:49:32,180 | 02:49:34,180 | 您覺得我們如何避免 |
| 02:49:34,180 | 02:49:37,180 | 再發聲向高雄高等行政法院 |
| 02:49:37,180 | 02:49:38,180 | 這樣判決 |
| 02:49:38,180 | 02:49:40,180 | 根本無視於CRPD |
| 02:49:40,180 | 02:49:41,180 | 這個國內法的存在 |
| 02:49:41,180 | 02:49:44,180 | 把合理調整不當成是義務 |
| 02:49:44,180 | 02:49:47,180 | 他覺得這只是個優惠的措施 |
| 02:49:47,180 | 02:49:49,180 | 所以 如何可以做到 |
| 02:49:49,180 | 02:49:50,180 | 不要再發聲 |
| 02:49:50,180 | 02:49:52,180 | 讓障礙者很辛苦了 |
| 02:49:52,180 | 02:49:53,180 | 還要再往上 |
| 02:49:53,180 | 02:49:56,180 | 再到最高行政法院才能夠 |
| 02:49:56,180 | 02:49:57,180 | 這個除了 |
| 02:49:57,180 | 02:49:59,180 | 當然法官一定要接受教育訓練 |
| 02:49:59,180 | 02:50:00,180 | 不是因為有些 |
| 02:50:00,180 | 02:50:01,180 | 一定要啊 |
| 02:50:01,180 | 02:50:02,180 | 那目前的教育訓練 |
| 02:50:02,180 | 02:50:03,180 | 有這個CRPD國內法嗎 |
| 02:50:03,180 | 02:50:04,180 | 有 |
| 02:50:04,180 | 02:50:05,180 | 請問是幾小時 |
| 02:50:05,180 | 02:50:06,180 | 這個一下問我 |
| 02:50:06,180 | 02:50:07,180 | 是一輩子講 |
| 02:50:07,180 | 02:50:08,180 | 就是一次 |
| 02:50:08,180 | 02:50:10,180 | 還是說一年有幾小時 |
| 02:50:10,180 | 02:50:12,180 | 最少法官我們是 |
| 02:50:12,180 | 02:50:15,180 | 規定是上課是40小時 |
| 02:50:15,180 | 02:50:19,180 | 40小時中是多久上一次課法官 |
| 02:50:19,180 | 02:50:20,180 | 整年呢 |
| 02:50:20,180 | 02:50:21,180 | 整年你全部要上課 |
| 02:50:21,180 | 02:50:24,180 | 每個法官整年都要上40小時課 |
| 02:50:24,180 | 02:50:26,180 | 那裡面CRPD的國內法 |
| 02:50:26,180 | 02:50:27,180 | 幾小時 |
| 02:50:27,180 | 02:50:28,180 | 我在打資料 |
| 02:50:28,180 | 02:50:29,180 | 送給委員 |
| 02:50:29,180 | 02:50:31,180 | 現在沒有人知道說 |
| 02:50:31,180 | 02:50:33,180 | 那個CRPD國內法幾小時嗎 |
| 02:50:33,180 | 02:50:34,180 | 因為CRPD |
| 02:50:34,180 | 02:50:36,180 | CRPD負責的是我們行政廳 |
| 02:50:36,180 | 02:50:38,180 | 他們今天剛好沒有人來 |
| 02:50:38,180 | 02:50:39,180 | 剛好沒有人 |
| 02:50:39,180 | 02:50:40,180 | 可是我這個 |
| 02:50:40,180 | 02:50:41,180 | 我可以 |
| 02:50:41,180 | 02:50:43,180 | 您確定目前有上CRPD國內法 |
| 02:50:43,180 | 02:50:44,180 | 有 |
| 02:50:44,180 | 02:50:45,180 | 只是幾小時不了解 |
| 02:50:45,180 | 02:50:46,180 | 對 真的 |
| 02:50:46,180 | 02:50:48,180 | 一下問我真的不了解 |
| 02:50:48,180 | 02:50:49,180 | 好 沒關係 |
| 02:50:49,180 | 02:50:50,180 | 那我想 |
| 02:50:50,180 | 02:50:51,180 | 因為我不想要 |
| 02:50:51,180 | 02:50:53,180 | 那個超時太多 |
| 02:50:53,180 | 02:50:54,180 | 所以我現在 |
| 02:50:54,180 | 02:50:55,180 | 因為我不想要 |
| 02:50:55,180 | 02:50:57,180 | 那個超時太多 |
| 02:50:58,180 | 02:51:00,180 | 我想要講的事情是 |
| 02:51:00,180 | 02:51:02,180 | 近年職場合理調整的爭議 |
| 02:51:02,180 | 02:51:04,180 | 真的有越來越多的判例 |
| 02:51:04,180 | 02:51:06,180 | 可是我們看不出來說 |
| 02:51:06,180 | 02:51:09,180 | 為什麼他有時候認定是歧視 |
| 02:51:09,180 | 02:51:11,180 | 有時候認為不是 |
| 02:51:11,180 | 02:51:12,180 | 那第一個 |
| 02:51:12,180 | 02:51:14,180 | 到底是不是個義務 |
| 02:51:14,180 | 02:51:17,180 | 這一層已經不是一致了 |
| 02:51:17,180 | 02:51:18,180 | 依照CRPD的法 |
| 02:51:18,180 | 02:51:20,180 | 他應該是義務 |
| 02:51:20,180 | 02:51:21,180 | 那再來這個義務之後 |
| 02:51:21,180 | 02:51:22,180 | 就像您剛講的 |
| 02:51:22,180 | 02:51:25,180 | 認定標準也非常的不一 |
| 02:51:25,180 | 02:51:28,180 | 那既然秘書長願意去努力 |
| 02:51:28,180 | 02:51:30,180 | 我想講的事情是 |
| 02:51:30,180 | 02:51:32,180 | 你們是不是可以先就 |
| 02:51:32,180 | 02:51:33,180 | 近年累積的 |
| 02:51:33,180 | 02:51:36,180 | 障礙者職場合理調整的判例 |
| 02:51:36,180 | 02:51:39,180 | 進行系統性的彙整跟延期 |
| 02:51:39,180 | 02:51:40,180 | 然後呢 |
| 02:51:40,180 | 02:51:43,180 | 根據CRPD國內法的精神 |
| 02:51:43,180 | 02:51:47,180 | 把這些案例做成教材 |
| 02:51:47,180 | 02:51:50,180 | 再給法官做研習好嗎 |
| 02:51:50,180 | 02:51:51,180 | 如果你講法律 |
| 02:51:51,180 | 02:51:53,180 | 等一下萬一上課的時候 |
| 02:51:53,180 | 02:51:54,180 | 大家太累了 |
| 02:51:54,180 | 02:51:56,180 | 打瞌睡了怎麼辦 |
| 02:51:56,180 | 02:51:59,180 | 那至少把你們的案例做延期 |
| 02:51:59,180 | 02:52:01,180 | 哪些其實那些判決 |
| 02:52:01,180 | 02:52:03,180 | 是錯的違反CRPD的精神 |
| 02:52:03,180 | 02:52:04,180 | 這一定可以做到 |
| 02:52:04,180 | 02:52:05,180 | 哪些是 |
| 02:52:05,180 | 02:52:07,180 | 然後讓大家了解合理調整 |
| 02:52:07,180 | 02:52:09,180 | 依照我們的CRPD |
| 02:52:09,180 | 02:52:11,180 | 不是優惠性的措施 |
| 02:52:11,180 | 02:52:12,180 | 他已經是義務了 |
| 02:52:12,180 | 02:52:13,180 | 好嗎 |
| 02:52:13,180 | 02:52:14,180 | 這一定可以做到 |
| 02:52:14,180 | 02:52:15,180 | 那這樣子你們這個做法 |
| 02:52:15,180 | 02:52:17,180 | 多久內可以給我一個報告呢 |
| 02:52:17,180 | 02:52:20,180 | 做完也就是你不一定要做完 |
| 02:52:20,180 | 02:52:21,180 | 就是預計要怎麼做 |
| 02:52:21,180 | 02:52:23,180 | 多久內可以做完 |
| 02:52:23,180 | 02:52:24,180 | 我們做系統性的彙整 |
| 02:52:24,180 | 02:52:26,180 | 可不可以給我們一個月 |
| 02:52:26,180 | 02:52:27,180 | 好一個月 |
| 02:52:27,180 | 02:52:29,180 | 至少把你的計畫要怎麼做 |
| 02:52:29,180 | 02:52:30,180 | 讓我知道好嗎 |
| 02:52:30,180 | 02:52:32,180 | 好那謝謝秘書長 |
| 02:52:32,180 | 02:52:33,180 | 好我繼續監督 |
| 02:52:33,180 | 02:52:37,180 | 好謝謝范雲委員 |
| 02:52:37,180 | 02:52:40,180 | 那麼我們今天所有登記發言的委員 |
| 02:52:40,180 | 02:52:41,180 | 都已經發言完畢 |
| 02:52:41,180 | 02:52:42,180 | 詢答結束 |
| 02:52:42,180 | 02:52:44,180 | 那委員結束的時候 |
| 02:52:44,180 | 02:52:46,180 | 所要求提供的相關資料 |
| 02:52:46,180 | 02:52:47,180 | 或以書面答覆者 |
| 02:52:47,180 | 02:52:48,180 | 就請相關機關 |
| 02:52:48,180 | 02:52:51,180 | 盡速送交個別委員以及本會 |
| 02:52:53,180 | 02:52:55,180 | 那麼委員蔡其昌 |
| 02:52:55,180 | 02:52:56,180 | 傅坤琦許宇貞 |
| 02:52:56,180 | 02:52:58,180 | 等委員所提的書面質詢 |
| 02:52:58,180 | 02:52:59,180 | 我們就列入記錄 |
| 02:52:59,180 | 02:53:00,180 | 刊登公報 |
| 02:53:00,180 | 02:53:03,180 | 並請相關機關以書面答覆 |
| 02:53:03,180 | 02:53:04,180 | 那由於明天 |
| 02:53:04,180 | 02:53:08,180 | 是召開全院委員會的公聽會 |
| 02:53:08,180 | 02:53:11,180 | 就是針對經常委員同意權的公聽會 |
| 02:53:11,180 | 02:53:12,180 | 所以本次會議呢 |
| 02:53:12,180 | 02:53:13,180 | 為週三 |
| 02:53:13,180 | 02:53:15,180 | 就是一天一次會 |
| 02:53:15,180 | 02:53:17,180 | 那會議就進行到此為止 |
| 02:53:17,180 | 02:53:20,180 | 我們的議程討論事項個案 |
| 02:53:20,180 | 02:53:22,180 | 均作如下的決議 |
| 02:53:22,180 | 02:53:25,180 | 我們就另定期繼續審查 |
| 02:53:25,180 | 02:53:26,180 | 好的我們現在散會 |
| 02:53:26,180 | 02:53:27,180 | 謝謝大家 |
| 02:54:15,180 | 02:54:16,180 | 謝謝 |
| 02:54:45,180 | 02:54:47,180 | 謝謝 |
| 02:55:15,180 | 02:55:17,180 | 謝謝 |
| 02:55:45,180 | 02:55:47,180 | 謝謝 |
| 02:56:15,180 | 02:56:17,180 | 謝謝 |
| 02:56:45,180 | 02:56:47,180 | 謝謝 |
| 02:57:15,180 | 02:57:17,180 | 謝謝 |
| 02:57:45,180 | 02:57:47,180 | 謝謝 |
| 02:58:15,180 | 02:58:17,180 | 謝謝 |
| 02:58:45,180 | 02:58:47,180 | 謝謝 |