iVOD / 17627
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完整會議 @ 第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第27次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:02,000 | 00:00:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:04,000 | 00:00:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:06,000 | 00:00:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:08,000 | 00:00:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:10,000 | 00:00:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:12,000 | 00:00:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:14,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:18,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:32,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:42,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:02,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:12,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:32,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:26,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:34,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:44,000 | 00:03:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:09:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:48,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:09:58,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:28,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:34,000 | 00:10:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:36,000 | 00:10:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:38,000 | 00:10:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:40,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:46,000 | 00:10:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:48,000 | 00:10:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:50,000 | 00:10:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:52,000 | 00:10:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:54,000 | 00:10:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:11:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:00,000 | 00:11:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:02,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:06,000 | 00:11:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:08,000 | 00:11:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:10,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:16,000 | 00:11:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:18,000 | 00:11:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:20,000 | 00:11:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:22,000 | 00:11:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:24,000 | 00:11:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:26,000 | 00:11:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:28,000 | 00:11:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:30,000 | 00:11:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:32,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:36,000 | 00:11:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:38,000 | 00:11:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:40,000 | 00:11:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:42,000 | 00:11:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:44,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:50,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:52,000 | 00:11:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:54,000 | 00:11:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:56,000 | 00:11:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:11:58,000 | 00:12:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:00,000 | 00:12:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:06,000 | 00:12:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:08,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:16,000 | 00:12:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:18,000 | 00:12:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:20,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:24,000 | 00:12:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:26,000 | 00:12:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:28,000 | 00:12:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:30,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:34,000 | 00:12:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:36,000 | 00:12:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:38,000 | 00:12:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:40,000 | 00:12:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:42,000 | 00:12:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:44,000 | 00:12:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:46,000 | 00:12:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:48,000 | 00:12:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:50,000 | 00:12:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:52,000 | 00:12:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:54,000 | 00:12:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:56,000 | 00:12:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:12:58,000 | 00:13:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:00,000 | 00:13:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:02,000 | 00:13:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:04,000 | 00:13:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:06,000 | 00:13:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:08,000 | 00:13:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:10,000 | 00:13:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:12,000 | 00:13:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:14,000 | 00:13:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:16,000 | 00:13:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:18,000 | 00:13:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:20,000 | 00:13:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:22,000 | 00:13:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:24,000 | 00:13:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:26,000 | 00:13:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:28,000 | 00:13:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:30,000 | 00:13:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:32,000 | 00:13:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:34,000 | 00:13:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:36,000 | 00:13:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:38,000 | 00:13:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:40,000 | 00:13:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:42,000 | 00:13:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:44,000 | 00:13:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:46,000 | 00:13:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:48,000 | 00:13:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:50,000 | 00:13:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:52,000 | 00:13:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:54,000 | 00:13:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:56,000 | 00:13:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:13:58,000 | 00:14:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:00,000 | 00:14:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:02,000 | 00:14:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:04,000 | 00:14:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:06,000 | 00:14:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:08,000 | 00:14:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:10,000 | 00:14:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:12,000 | 00:14:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:14,000 | 00:14:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:16,000 | 00:14:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:18,000 | 00:14:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:20,000 | 00:14:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:22,000 | 00:14:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:24,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:28,000 | 00:14:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:30,000 | 00:14:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:32,000 | 00:14:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:34,000 | 00:14:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:36,000 | 00:14:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:38,000 | 00:14:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:40,000 | 00:14:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:42,000 | 00:14:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:44,000 | 00:14:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:46,000 | 00:14:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:48,000 | 00:14:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:50,000 | 00:14:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:52,000 | 00:14:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:54,000 | 00:14:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:56,000 | 00:14:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:14:58,000 | 00:15:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:00,000 | 00:15:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:02,000 | 00:15:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:04,000 | 00:15:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:06,000 | 00:15:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:08,000 | 00:15:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:10,000 | 00:15:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:12,000 | 00:15:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:14,000 | 00:15:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:16,000 | 00:15:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:18,000 | 00:15:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:20,000 | 00:15:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:22,000 | 00:15:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:24,000 | 00:15:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:26,000 | 00:15:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:28,000 | 00:15:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:30,000 | 00:15:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:32,000 | 00:15:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:34,000 | 00:15:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:36,000 | 00:15:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:38,000 | 00:15:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:40,000 | 00:15:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:42,000 | 00:15:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:44,000 | 00:15:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:46,000 | 00:15:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:48,000 | 00:15:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:50,000 | 00:15:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:52,000 | 00:15:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:54,000 | 00:15:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:56,000 | 00:15:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:15:58,000 | 00:16:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:00,000 | 00:16:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:02,000 | 00:16:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:04,000 | 00:16:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:06,000 | 00:16:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:08,000 | 00:16:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:10,000 | 00:16:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:12,000 | 00:16:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:14,000 | 00:16:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:16,000 | 00:16:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:18,000 | 00:16:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:20,000 | 00:16:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:22,000 | 00:16:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:24,000 | 00:16:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:26,000 | 00:16:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:28,000 | 00:16:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:30,000 | 00:16:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:32,000 | 00:16:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:34,000 | 00:16:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:36,000 | 00:16:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:38,000 | 00:16:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:40,000 | 00:16:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:42,000 | 00:16:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:44,000 | 00:16:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:46,000 | 00:16:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:48,000 | 00:16:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:50,000 | 00:16:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:52,000 | 00:16:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:54,000 | 00:16:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:56,000 | 00:16:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:16:58,000 | 00:17:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:00,000 | 00:17:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:02,000 | 00:17:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:04,000 | 00:17:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:06,000 | 00:17:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:08,000 | 00:17:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:10,000 | 00:17:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:12,000 | 00:17:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:14,000 | 00:17:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:16,000 | 00:17:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:18,000 | 00:17:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:20,000 | 00:17:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:22,000 | 00:17:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:24,000 | 00:17:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:26,000 | 00:17:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:28,000 | 00:17:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:30,000 | 00:17:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:32,000 | 00:17:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:34,000 | 00:17:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:36,000 | 00:17:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:38,000 | 00:17:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:40,000 | 00:17:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:42,000 | 00:17:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:44,000 | 00:17:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:46,000 | 00:17:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:48,000 | 00:17:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:50,000 | 00:17:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:52,000 | 00:17:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:54,000 | 00:17:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:56,000 | 00:17:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:17:58,000 | 00:18:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:00,000 | 00:18:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:02,000 | 00:18:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:04,000 | 00:18:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:06,000 | 00:18:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:08,000 | 00:18:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:10,000 | 00:18:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:12,000 | 00:18:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:14,000 | 00:18:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:16,000 | 00:18:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:18,000 | 00:18:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:20,000 | 00:18:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:22,000 | 00:18:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:24,000 | 00:18:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:26,000 | 00:18:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:28,000 | 00:18:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:30,000 | 00:18:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:32,000 | 00:18:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:34,000 | 00:18:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:36,000 | 00:18:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:38,000 | 00:18:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:40,000 | 00:18:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:42,000 | 00:18:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:44,000 | 00:18:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:46,000 | 00:18:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:48,000 | 00:18:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:50,000 | 00:18:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:52,000 | 00:18:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:54,000 | 00:18:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:56,000 | 00:18:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:18:58,000 | 00:19:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:00,000 | 00:19:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:02,000 | 00:19:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:04,000 | 00:19:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:06,000 | 00:19:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:08,000 | 00:19:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:10,000 | 00:19:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:12,000 | 00:19:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:14,000 | 00:19:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:16,000 | 00:19:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:18,000 | 00:19:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:20,000 | 00:19:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:22,000 | 00:19:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:24,000 | 00:19:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:26,000 | 00:19:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:28,000 | 00:19:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:30,000 | 00:19:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:32,000 | 00:19:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:34,000 | 00:19:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:36,000 | 00:19:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:38,000 | 00:19:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:40,000 | 00:19:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:42,000 | 00:19:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:44,000 | 00:19:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:46,000 | 00:19:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:48,000 | 00:19:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:50,000 | 00:19:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:52,000 | 00:19:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:54,000 | 00:19:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:56,000 | 00:19:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:19:58,000 | 00:20:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:00,000 | 00:20:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:02,000 | 00:20:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:04,000 | 00:20:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:06,000 | 00:20:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:08,000 | 00:20:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:10,000 | 00:20:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:12,000 | 00:20:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:14,000 | 00:20:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:16,000 | 00:20:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:18,000 | 00:20:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:20,000 | 00:20:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:22,000 | 00:20:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:24,000 | 00:20:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:26,000 | 00:20:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:28,000 | 00:20:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:30,000 | 00:20:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:32,000 | 00:20:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:34,000 | 00:20:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:36,000 | 00:20:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:38,000 | 00:20:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:40,000 | 00:20:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:42,000 | 00:20:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:44,000 | 00:20:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:46,000 | 00:20:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:48,000 | 00:20:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:50,000 | 00:20:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:52,000 | 00:20:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:54,000 | 00:20:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:56,000 | 00:20:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:20:58,000 | 00:21:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:00,000 | 00:21:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:02,000 | 00:21:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:04,000 | 00:21:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:06,000 | 00:21:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:08,000 | 00:21:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:10,000 | 00:21:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:12,000 | 00:21:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:14,000 | 00:21:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:16,000 | 00:21:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:18,000 | 00:21:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:20,000 | 00:21:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:22,000 | 00:21:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:24,000 | 00:21:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:26,000 | 00:21:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:28,000 | 00:21:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:30,000 | 00:21:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:32,000 | 00:21:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:34,000 | 00:21:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:36,000 | 00:21:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:38,000 | 00:21:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:40,000 | 00:21:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:42,000 | 00:21:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:44,000 | 00:21:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:46,000 | 00:21:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:48,000 | 00:21:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:50,000 | 00:21:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:52,000 | 00:21:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:54,000 | 00:21:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:56,000 | 00:21:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:21:58,000 | 00:22:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:00,000 | 00:22:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:02,000 | 00:22:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:04,000 | 00:22:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:06,000 | 00:22:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:08,000 | 00:22:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:10,000 | 00:22:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:12,000 | 00:22:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:14,000 | 00:22:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:16,000 | 00:22:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:18,000 | 00:22:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:20,000 | 00:22:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:22,000 | 00:22:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:24,000 | 00:22:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:26,000 | 00:22:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:28,000 | 00:22:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:30,000 | 00:22:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:32,000 | 00:22:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:34,000 | 00:22:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:36,000 | 00:22:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:38,000 | 00:22:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:40,000 | 00:22:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:42,000 | 00:22:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:44,000 | 00:22:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:46,000 | 00:22:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:48,000 | 00:22:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:50,000 | 00:22:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:52,000 | 00:22:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:54,000 | 00:22:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:56,000 | 00:22:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:22:58,000 | 00:23:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:00,000 | 00:23:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:02,000 | 00:23:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:04,000 | 00:23:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:06,000 | 00:23:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:08,000 | 00:23:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:10,000 | 00:23:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:12,000 | 00:23:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:14,000 | 00:23:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:16,000 | 00:23:18,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:18,000 | 00:23:20,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:20,000 | 00:23:22,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:22,000 | 00:23:24,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:24,000 | 00:23:26,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:26,000 | 00:23:28,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:28,000 | 00:23:30,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:30,000 | 00:23:32,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:32,000 | 00:23:34,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:34,000 | 00:23:36,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:36,000 | 00:23:38,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:38,000 | 00:23:40,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:40,000 | 00:23:42,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:42,000 | 00:23:44,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:44,000 | 00:23:46,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:46,000 | 00:23:48,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:48,000 | 00:23:50,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:50,000 | 00:23:52,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:52,000 | 00:23:54,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:54,000 | 00:23:56,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:56,000 | 00:23:58,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:23:58,000 | 00:24:00,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:00,000 | 00:24:02,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:02,000 | 00:24:04,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:04,000 | 00:24:06,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:06,000 | 00:24:08,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:08,000 | 00:24:10,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:10,000 | 00:24:12,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:12,000 | 00:24:14,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:14,000 | 00:24:16,000 | 我就是想要你 |
| 00:24:16,000 | 00:24:18,000 | 大蔣 |
| 00:24:22,000 | 00:24:24,000 | 總之你還沒簽名 |
| 00:24:24,000 | 00:24:26,000 | 簽一簽 |
| 00:24:28,000 | 00:24:30,000 | 這你太重要了 |
| 00:24:30,000 | 00:24:32,000 | 沒有你沒辦法開會 |
| 00:24:38,000 | 00:24:40,000 | 哇,怎麼那麼熱 |
| 00:24:46,000 | 00:24:58,000 | 我們現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議的議事錄 |
| 00:25:16,000 | 00:25:18,000 | 主席委員陳肇之委員等12人 |
| 00:25:18,000 | 00:25:20,000 | 練習委員鍾嘉斌委員等14人 |
| 00:25:20,000 | 00:25:24,000 | 練習官員7月22日法務部政務次長黃謀信等人 |
| 00:25:24,000 | 00:25:27,000 | 7月23日法務部部長鄭銘謙等人 |
| 00:25:27,000 | 00:25:29,000 | 主席翁肇齊委員曉林 |
| 00:25:29,000 | 00:25:32,000 | 7月22日報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定 |
| 00:25:32,000 | 00:25:33,000 | 討論事項 |
| 00:25:33,000 | 00:25:36,000 | 病案審查行政院司法院憨青審議 |
| 00:25:36,000 | 00:25:38,000 | 中華民國刑法第185條之三條 |
| 00:25:38,000 | 00:25:40,000 | 民修內草案等56案 |
| 00:25:40,000 | 00:25:42,000 | 本日會議由委員陳肇之等11人提出質詢 |
| 00:25:42,000 | 00:25:45,000 | 委員蔡其昌等4人提出數面質詢 |
| 00:25:45,000 | 00:25:47,000 | 第一報告期巡邏完畢進行逐條審查 |
| 00:25:47,000 | 00:25:50,000 | 第185條之三保留送院會處理 |
| 00:25:50,000 | 00:25:53,000 | 第185條之四不予修正維持現行條文 |
| 00:25:53,000 | 00:25:56,000 | 增訂第180條之五不予增訂 |
| 00:25:56,000 | 00:25:59,000 | 本案審查完畢擬具審查報告提請院會公決 |
| 00:25:59,000 | 00:26:00,000 | 須交由黨團協商 |
| 00:26:00,000 | 00:26:03,000 | 院會討論時由翁昭吉委員曉林出席說明 |
| 00:26:03,000 | 00:26:06,000 | 條次引述條文部分文字及法字用字用語 |
| 00:26:06,000 | 00:26:08,000 | 授權主席及醫事人員整理 |
| 00:26:08,000 | 00:26:11,000 | 委員執行時要求進入相關資料會署名答覆者 |
| 00:26:11,000 | 00:26:14,000 | 請相關機關進述送票個別委員基本會 |
| 00:26:14,000 | 00:26:16,000 | 7月23日報告事項 |
| 00:26:16,000 | 00:26:20,000 | 邀請法務部長等就中聯制埃由事件之爭 |
| 00:26:20,000 | 00:26:23,000 | 偵辦調查消費者權益及食安監管進行 |
| 00:26:23,000 | 00:26:24,000 | 專題報告並備質詢 |
| 00:26:24,000 | 00:26:27,000 | 邀請監察院秘書長等就現行公職員 |
| 00:26:27,000 | 00:26:30,000 | 立衝突回避既立職公務員宣傳門機制 |
| 00:26:30,000 | 00:26:33,000 | 進行執行懲教與法治決事進行詳談報告並備質詢 |
| 00:26:33,000 | 00:26:36,000 | 本日會議有委員吳宗憲等12人提出質詢 |
| 00:26:36,000 | 00:26:38,000 | 委員林沛祥等7人提出數面質詢 |
| 00:26:38,000 | 00:26:40,000 | 決定報告期巡邏完畢 |
| 00:26:40,000 | 00:26:43,000 | 委員質詢時要求提供相關資料會署名答覆者 |
| 00:26:43,000 | 00:26:45,000 | 請問機關進駐松江個別委員基本會 |
| 00:26:45,000 | 00:26:47,000 | 通過臨時提案一案,宣讀完畢 |
| 00:26:49,000 | 00:26:53,000 | 請問各位上次會議一事入有錯誤或遺漏 |
| 00:26:53,000 | 00:26:57,000 | 沒有的話,沒有錯誤跟遺漏,我們一事入就確定 |
| 00:26:57,000 | 00:26:59,000 | 啊,抱歉 |
| 00:26:59,000 | 00:27:04,000 | 接著我們介紹到場的委員跟應邀列席的官員 |
| 00:27:04,000 | 00:27:06,000 | 先介紹在場的委員 |
| 00:27:06,000 | 00:27:09,000 | 在場我們有 |
| 00:27:09,000 | 00:27:12,000 | 翁小林召委 |
| 00:27:12,000 | 00:27:14,000 | 林茜淇委員 |
| 00:27:14,000 | 00:27:17,000 | 還有陳昭之委員 |
| 00:27:17,000 | 00:27:20,000 | 我們這三大女將都來了 |
| 00:27:20,000 | 00:27:23,000 | 接著介紹我們考試院 |
| 00:27:23,000 | 00:27:26,000 | 今天來考試院列席的是副秘書長 |
| 00:27:26,000 | 00:27:28,000 | 龔奎義 |
| 00:27:28,000 | 00:27:32,000 | 還有全序部部長施能傑施部長 |
| 00:27:32,000 | 00:27:36,000 | 全序部政務次長懷旭次長 |
| 00:27:36,000 | 00:27:40,000 | 法務部政務次長黃謀信次長 |
| 00:27:40,000 | 00:27:43,000 | 檢察司司長張曉雯司長 |
| 00:27:43,000 | 00:27:49,000 | 還有內政部政務次長馬世元馬次長 |
| 00:27:49,000 | 00:27:54,000 | 警政署副署長廖迅成廖副署長 |
| 00:27:54,000 | 00:27:56,000 | 呃,這樣 |
| 00:27:56,000 | 00:27:59,000 | 其餘未及介紹的列席代表 |
| 00:27:59,000 | 00:28:02,000 | 請參議員名單就不再主一介紹 |
| 00:28:02,000 | 00:28:04,000 | 並列入公報記錄 |
| 00:28:04,000 | 00:28:06,000 | 那本次的會議我們是兩天一次會 |
| 00:28:06,000 | 00:28:08,000 | 我們議程排定 |
| 00:28:08,000 | 00:28:10,000 | 考試院的四項兩案分別是 |
| 00:28:10,000 | 00:28:13,000 | 繼續病案審查行政院寒景審議 |
| 00:28:13,000 | 00:28:16,000 | 毒品危害防治條例 |
| 00:28:16,000 | 00:28:20,000 | 第三十三條三十六條條文的修正案 |
| 00:28:20,000 | 00:28:22,000 | 一共有二十三案 |
| 00:28:22,000 | 00:28:25,000 | 以及繼續審查考試院寒景審議 |
| 00:28:25,000 | 00:28:28,000 | 公務人員考機法的修正草案 |
| 00:28:28,000 | 00:28:31,000 | 由於討論事項個案當中 |
| 00:28:31,000 | 00:28:34,000 | 部分相關提案先前已經分別經過 |
| 00:28:34,000 | 00:28:39,000 | 本會第二十二次跟二十五次的會議審查 |
| 00:28:39,000 | 00:28:42,000 | 機關代表都已經提出報告 |
| 00:28:42,000 | 00:28:45,000 | 現就在病入審查的新提案 |
| 00:28:45,000 | 00:28:48,000 | 尚未進行提案說明的部分 |
| 00:28:48,000 | 00:28:51,000 | 來進行委員的提案說明 |
| 00:28:51,000 | 00:28:54,000 | 每一位委員的提案說明是三分鐘 |
| 00:28:54,000 | 00:28:57,000 | 那請提案人來進行提案說明 |
| 00:28:57,000 | 00:28:59,000 | 首先我們來請 |
| 00:28:59,000 | 00:29:02,000 | 第一位翁小林翁委員 |
| 00:29:02,000 | 00:29:03,000 | 來 |
| 00:29:05,000 | 00:29:08,000 | 報告昭偉我想在開始正式的提案說明之前 |
| 00:29:08,000 | 00:29:11,000 | 我這裡有一個程序性的動議 |
| 00:29:11,000 | 00:29:14,000 | 是這樣的因為我們今天主要是討論 |
| 00:29:14,000 | 00:29:17,000 | 毒品危害防治條例的修法 |
| 00:29:17,000 | 00:29:19,000 | 還有公務人員考機法的修法 |
| 00:29:19,000 | 00:29:23,000 | 那麼對於公務人員考機法修法這個案子 |
| 00:29:23,000 | 00:29:26,000 | 因為他這次總共是修了三十條 |
| 00:29:26,000 | 00:29:29,000 | 坦白說這個等於是公務人員考機法的大翻修 |
| 00:29:29,000 | 00:29:32,000 | 那我們上一次只有進行過一次詢答 |
| 00:29:32,000 | 00:29:35,000 | 在那一次詢答過程中我記得就是說蠻多委員 |
| 00:29:35,000 | 00:29:39,000 | 還有包含司法院對於這個案子其實都有一些意見 |
| 00:29:39,000 | 00:29:42,000 | 那麼因為現在就是說比較倉促的 |
| 00:29:42,000 | 00:29:44,000 | 就要進行逐條審查 |
| 00:29:44,000 | 00:29:47,000 | 那本席是認為不是很妥當 |
| 00:29:47,000 | 00:29:49,000 | 所以在這邊我是提案建議說 |
| 00:29:49,000 | 00:29:52,000 | 是不是我們考機法的修正草案 |
| 00:29:52,000 | 00:29:55,000 | 我們可以先舉辦一個公聽會 |
| 00:29:55,000 | 00:29:58,000 | 因為畢竟基層的聲音也很重要 |
| 00:29:58,000 | 00:30:00,000 | 然後同時還有專家學者們 |
| 00:30:00,000 | 00:30:04,000 | 其實對於考機法的修正也有一些意見 |
| 00:30:04,000 | 00:30:07,000 | 所以在這裡的話是不是可以請召委 |
| 00:30:07,000 | 00:30:12,000 | 我們可以就是對於公務人員考機法修正案的部分 |
| 00:30:12,000 | 00:30:14,000 | 可以舉辦一場公聽會 |
| 00:30:14,000 | 00:30:19,000 | 那當然因為正好下週是本席排我當召委 |
| 00:30:19,000 | 00:30:22,000 | 那麼所以我本來就會要安排下週一會 |
| 00:30:22,000 | 00:30:25,000 | 針對公務人員待遇調整條例草案 |
| 00:30:25,000 | 00:30:27,000 | 然後來辦理公聽會 |
| 00:30:27,000 | 00:30:32,000 | 那麼同時如果說是這個召委也覺得可以的話 |
| 00:30:32,000 | 00:30:35,000 | 或許我們可以一起把這個案子 |
| 00:30:35,000 | 00:30:39,000 | 都跟公務人員的人事制度等等有關的案子 |
| 00:30:39,000 | 00:30:42,000 | 我們可以就是共同排場公聽會 |
| 00:30:42,000 | 00:30:45,000 | 當然在這邊也這個如果說召委 |
| 00:30:45,000 | 00:30:48,000 | 可以就是在另外排場公聽會的話 |
| 00:30:48,000 | 00:30:49,000 | 那也都很好 |
| 00:30:49,000 | 00:30:51,000 | 所以我的建議是說 |
| 00:30:51,000 | 00:30:54,000 | 是不是今天我們在這個案子上面 |
| 00:30:54,000 | 00:30:58,000 | 我們就可以就是來先排公聽會 |
| 00:30:58,000 | 00:31:00,000 | 然後之後我們再來進行逐條審查 |
| 00:31:00,000 | 00:31:02,000 | 那我認為會更為完整 |
| 00:31:02,000 | 00:31:03,000 | 以上 |
| 00:31:05,000 | 00:31:08,000 | 公召委講的其實也是很有道理 |
| 00:31:08,000 | 00:31:14,000 | 就是說這個確實整個懲戒 |
| 00:31:14,000 | 00:31:16,000 | 有涉及到公務人員的懲戒 |
| 00:31:16,000 | 00:31:20,000 | 這個部分司法院其實我們看考試院跟司法院 |
| 00:31:20,000 | 00:31:25,000 | 確實意見不太一樣 |
| 00:31:25,000 | 00:31:28,000 | 其實就是司法院有疑慮 |
| 00:31:28,000 | 00:31:31,000 | 倒也不是因為說要公聽 |
| 00:31:31,000 | 00:31:35,000 | 我們其實本時都非常贊同 |
| 00:31:35,000 | 00:31:39,000 | 這種重大的一個法案的翻修 |
| 00:31:39,000 | 00:31:42,000 | 加強跟各界的一個對話 |
| 00:31:42,000 | 00:31:44,000 | 尤其是涉及到怨記之間 |
| 00:31:44,000 | 00:31:46,000 | 有不同的一個看法的時候 |
| 00:31:46,000 | 00:31:49,000 | 那確實我都會非常謹慎 |
| 00:31:49,000 | 00:31:51,000 | 公聽不是不可以 |
| 00:31:51,000 | 00:31:53,000 | 但是就是說也不一定是公聽 |
| 00:31:53,000 | 00:31:56,000 | 我們在立法院我們常常動不動就禁賦惡毒 |
| 00:31:56,000 | 00:31:58,000 | 連委員會都沒有 |
| 00:31:58,000 | 00:32:03,000 | 但是這個這一部的一個法令 |
| 00:32:03,000 | 00:32:05,000 | 司法院這個地方的一個疑慮 |
| 00:32:05,000 | 00:32:06,000 | 以上比如說 |
| 00:32:06,000 | 00:32:08,000 | 虛心懲戒機關的認定這個部分 |
| 00:32:08,000 | 00:32:11,000 | 又涉及到整個大法官會議的一個解釋 |
| 00:32:11,000 | 00:32:15,000 | 公務人員那個依法詮釋取得的這種官等奉及 |
| 00:32:15,000 | 00:32:17,000 | 你說非親公務人員懲戒機關 |
| 00:32:17,000 | 00:32:22,000 | 依法定程序的審議來決定不得降級跟減奉 |
| 00:32:22,000 | 00:32:25,000 | 這個是憲法上扶公職權利所受的 |
| 00:32:25,000 | 00:32:27,000 | 一個制度性的一個保障 |
| 00:32:27,000 | 00:32:30,000 | 司法院的一個疑慮也不是沒有道理 |
| 00:32:30,000 | 00:32:33,000 | 那這次全序部的一個解釋就是說 |
| 00:32:33,000 | 00:32:36,000 | 你現在奉及法23條的規定 |
| 00:32:36,000 | 00:32:41,000 | 就明定說可以法律來規定降序的一個規範 |
| 00:32:41,000 | 00:32:46,000 | 那全序部的審定這部分 |
| 00:32:46,000 | 00:32:49,000 | 他認為他其實就覺得說 |
| 00:32:49,000 | 00:32:52,000 | 就類似我們法律院常講的舉重明輕 |
| 00:32:52,000 | 00:32:55,000 | 免職行政機關的人事權的固有的核心 |
| 00:32:55,000 | 00:32:59,000 | 那你行政機關當然可以制定降序的一個規範 |
| 00:32:59,000 | 00:33:04,000 | 所以全序部跟這個司法院這個地方 |
| 00:33:04,000 | 00:33:06,000 | 司法院當然他一定會認為說 |
| 00:33:06,000 | 00:33:11,000 | 你去給他侵犯到我的這個固有的一個權限 |
| 00:33:11,000 | 00:33:14,000 | 我不知道考試院這個地方 |
| 00:33:14,000 | 00:33:17,000 | 程序性我們可以本來就可以來做一個採試 |
| 00:33:17,000 | 00:33:22,000 | 但是我來比較在做這種程序性的一個採定 |
| 00:33:22,000 | 00:33:26,000 | 以前是不是請這個全序部家 |
| 00:33:26,000 | 00:33:28,000 | 部長你有來嗎 |
| 00:33:28,000 | 00:33:31,000 | 那個司法院的疑慮 |
| 00:33:31,000 | 00:33:33,000 | 你 |
| 00:33:33,000 | 00:33:36,000 | 沒關係我先讓他說明一下 |
| 00:33:36,000 | 00:33:41,000 | 因為你的問題其實我們要這一場公聽就是說 |
| 00:33:41,000 | 00:33:43,000 | 不好意思我剛剛忘記補充就是說 |
| 00:33:43,000 | 00:33:47,000 | 因為昨天有接到公務人員協會等等的這些團體 |
| 00:33:47,000 | 00:33:50,000 | 他們有打電話然後來我辦公室 |
| 00:33:50,000 | 00:33:53,000 | 我可能或許有召委那邊也有接到 |
| 00:33:53,000 | 00:33:56,000 | 那麼因為基層他們希望能夠多一點他們的意見 |
| 00:33:56,000 | 00:33:59,000 | 因為在這次的考績法修正裡面 |
| 00:33:59,000 | 00:34:03,000 | 有非常多不確定法律概念什麼職務怠惰等等 |
| 00:34:03,000 | 00:34:06,000 | 他們也很擔心未來就是在考績法的部分 |
| 00:34:06,000 | 00:34:08,000 | 看起來本來說是要放寬 |
| 00:34:08,000 | 00:34:11,000 | 結果反而是越來越抓緊他們的一些 |
| 00:34:11,000 | 00:34:14,000 | 這個未來的在工作上面的一些問題 |
| 00:34:14,000 | 00:34:19,000 | 所以因為就像我說他是整個全面翻修了30條 |
| 00:34:19,000 | 00:34:22,000 | 我也有收到 |
| 00:34:22,000 | 00:34:25,000 | 那是希望說能夠一併考量 |
| 00:34:25,000 | 00:34:27,000 | 理髮院很厲害 |
| 00:34:27,000 | 00:34:29,000 | 理髮院都不用討論就可以標給他 |
| 00:34:29,000 | 00:34:32,000 | 這個常常在發生的 |
| 00:34:32,000 | 00:34:34,000 | 每天在上演的事情 |
| 00:34:34,000 | 00:34:37,000 | 但是我知道我覺得說我在審法案的時候 |
| 00:34:37,000 | 00:34:41,000 | 我總是覺得說這種制度性的一個翻修 |
| 00:34:41,000 | 00:34:43,000 | 來跟社會對話 |
| 00:34:43,000 | 00:34:48,000 | 來多聽聽機關之間的一個不同的一個看法 |
| 00:34:48,000 | 00:34:51,000 | 因為畢竟司法院真的是有他的一個疑慮 |
| 00:34:51,000 | 00:34:53,000 | 所以請補充 |
| 00:34:53,000 | 00:34:55,000 | 司部長你對司法院的疑慮 |
| 00:34:55,000 | 00:34:58,000 | 你再論述看看好不好 |
| 00:34:58,000 | 00:35:00,000 | 好 我跟委員報告 |
| 00:35:00,000 | 00:35:05,000 | 我想我們有上次在上次這個大體詢問的時候 |
| 00:35:05,000 | 00:35:07,000 | 然後司法院提了一份意見 |
| 00:35:07,000 | 00:35:10,000 | 那我們後來也就他的意見做了主 |
| 00:35:10,000 | 00:35:12,000 | 就是主點的一個回應 |
| 00:35:12,000 | 00:35:14,000 | 那基本的基調是這樣子 |
| 00:35:14,000 | 00:35:17,000 | 我們是從宣判的111年的 |
| 00:35:17,000 | 00:35:19,000 | 宣判9號的基調開始 |
| 00:35:19,000 | 00:35:22,000 | 這基調開始就告訴我們說 |
| 00:35:22,000 | 00:35:25,000 | 如果我們要對公務人員做任何的懲處 |
| 00:35:25,000 | 00:35:27,000 | 那同一室友呢 |
| 00:35:27,000 | 00:35:32,000 | 懲處就是不要讓有同一室友又送懲戒又送懲處 |
| 00:35:32,000 | 00:35:33,000 | 雙重負擔 |
| 00:35:33,000 | 00:35:37,000 | 那我們這一次的修法其中一個重點之一 |
| 00:35:37,000 | 00:35:38,000 | 我們講的是說 |
| 00:35:38,000 | 00:35:43,000 | 如果我們這個行政機關已經確定就這個事項 |
| 00:35:43,000 | 00:35:44,000 | 採取了懲處 |
| 00:35:44,000 | 00:35:46,000 | 就不要再送懲戒 |
| 00:35:46,000 | 00:35:49,000 | 但這從來沒有去告訴行政機關說 |
| 00:35:49,000 | 00:35:51,000 | 一開始你決定要怎麼做 |
| 00:35:51,000 | 00:35:54,000 | 如果你認為你覺得這個案子你不想處理 |
| 00:35:54,000 | 00:35:56,000 | 你想送到懲戒去 |
| 00:35:56,000 | 00:35:59,000 | 根據現行的這個修法我們沒有禁止這個事情 |
| 00:35:59,000 | 00:36:02,000 | 所以沒有侵犯到這個所謂這個懲戒權 |
| 00:36:02,000 | 00:36:06,000 | 那至於剛剛提到的這個降序一級這個部分 |
| 00:36:06,000 | 00:36:08,000 | 我們還是認為這舉重明輕的一個問題 |
| 00:36:08,000 | 00:36:12,000 | 我們都可以立法政策都可以賦予行政機關 |
| 00:36:12,000 | 00:36:14,000 | 在懲處可以免職了 |
| 00:36:14,000 | 00:36:16,000 | 那比他更輕的怎麼會不賦予呢 |
| 00:36:16,000 | 00:36:18,000 | 最後這一點我還是要講 |
| 00:36:18,000 | 00:36:20,000 | 我們考試院這邊包括部裡面認為 |
| 00:36:20,000 | 00:36:25,000 | 這一次我們考試院修法無涉憲法層次的問題 |
| 00:36:25,000 | 00:36:28,000 | 我們沒有去挑戰懲戒跟懲處 |
| 00:36:28,000 | 00:36:32,000 | 我們講的是說在一個現代化的國家裡面 |
| 00:36:32,000 | 00:36:37,000 | 行政機關一定要保留他做為第一次裁判的一個權利 |
| 00:36:37,000 | 00:36:40,000 | 那後面如果任何當事人不服 |
| 00:36:40,000 | 00:36:42,000 | 他都可以使行政就職的程序 |
| 00:36:42,000 | 00:36:44,000 | 包括最後到這個法院去 |
| 00:36:44,000 | 00:36:46,000 | 那所以在這個基礎下 |
| 00:36:46,000 | 00:36:48,000 | 到底要賦予行政權 |
| 00:36:48,000 | 00:36:50,000 | 在進行行政機制懲處 |
| 00:36:50,000 | 00:36:52,000 | 有什麼樣的工具種類 |
| 00:36:52,000 | 00:36:54,000 | 還有效果 |
| 00:36:54,000 | 00:36:57,000 | 這純粹屬於立法政策形成的問題 |
| 00:36:57,000 | 00:37:01,000 | 也就是說這個不是涉及到憲法 |
| 00:37:01,000 | 00:37:03,000 | 立法院如果最後決定說 |
| 00:37:03,000 | 00:37:06,000 | 因為基於整個行政管理的需求 |
| 00:37:06,000 | 00:37:08,000 | 他應該賦予行政權 |
| 00:37:08,000 | 00:37:12,000 | 有這樣一些更多元的工具來因應各式各樣的事情 |
| 00:37:12,000 | 00:37:14,000 | 這是立法政策的問題 |
| 00:37:14,000 | 00:37:17,000 | 你不會侵犯到憲法裡面講的懲戒權 |
| 00:37:17,000 | 00:37:20,000 | 我想這是我中和性先做這樣一個說明 |
| 00:37:20,000 | 00:37:25,000 | 那我也跟委員包容許我跟剛剛那個歐委員提到 |
| 00:37:25,000 | 00:37:27,000 | 我是不是也可以簡單的回應歐委員的一個 |
| 00:37:27,000 | 00:37:28,000 | 我也提到說很多基層 |
| 00:37:28,000 | 00:37:30,000 | 我之前講我們程序上 |
| 00:37:30,000 | 00:37:34,000 | 我們為了做這個事情確實是一個大修 |
| 00:37:34,000 | 00:37:36,000 | 那我們大修有大修的一個原因 |
| 00:37:36,000 | 00:37:37,000 | 我想我們在立法說明有很清楚 |
| 00:37:37,000 | 00:37:38,000 | 那在過程裡面 |
| 00:37:38,000 | 00:37:40,000 | 我們用各式各樣的方式 |
| 00:37:40,000 | 00:37:43,000 | 去徵詢所有公務同仁的意見 |
| 00:37:43,000 | 00:37:46,000 | 譬如像說我們也直接開放 |
| 00:37:46,000 | 00:37:48,000 | 我們透過網路線上的一個調查 |
| 00:37:48,000 | 00:37:49,000 | 然後有各式各樣 |
| 00:37:49,000 | 00:37:52,000 | 那我們大概收到大概快三萬個 |
| 00:37:52,000 | 00:37:54,000 | 所有的同仁的回覆 |
| 00:37:54,000 | 00:37:56,000 | 對我們所提的這個查看的回覆 |
| 00:37:56,000 | 00:37:58,000 | 大概62%是贊成 |
| 00:37:58,000 | 00:38:00,000 | 28%是表示他沒有意見 |
| 00:38:00,000 | 00:38:01,000 | 那公務同仁一般來講 |
| 00:38:01,000 | 00:38:04,000 | 如果他贊成跟沒有意見就表示 |
| 00:38:04,000 | 00:38:05,000 | 他們對這個法案的方向 |
| 00:38:05,000 | 00:38:07,000 | 其實沒有太大意見 |
| 00:38:07,000 | 00:38:08,000 | 甚至是支持的 |
| 00:38:08,000 | 00:38:09,000 | 所以合起來只有九成 |
| 00:38:09,000 | 00:38:11,000 | 我意思說我們有踐行這個程序 |
| 00:38:11,000 | 00:38:13,000 | 至於有個別的團體 |
| 00:38:13,000 | 00:38:15,000 | 也有寫信給我們 |
| 00:38:15,000 | 00:38:17,000 | 我們大概都有 |
| 00:38:17,000 | 00:38:18,000 | 根據他一個東西 |
| 00:38:18,000 | 00:38:19,000 | 也做不斷的調整 |
| 00:38:19,000 | 00:38:20,000 | 也回覆他們意見 |
| 00:38:20,000 | 00:38:22,000 | 裡面最多可能是說 |
| 00:38:22,000 | 00:38:23,000 | 譬如像說如果是 |
| 00:38:23,000 | 00:38:25,000 | 我們有一個未打良好 |
| 00:38:25,000 | 00:38:26,000 | 那些條件是不是有 |
| 00:38:26,000 | 00:38:28,000 | 法律不確定的一個因素 |
| 00:38:28,000 | 00:38:30,000 | 大概談的是這個部分 |
| 00:38:30,000 | 00:38:32,000 | 那我先講一個部分 |
| 00:38:32,000 | 00:38:34,000 | 在我們歷史的紀錄上 |
| 00:38:34,000 | 00:38:37,000 | 所謂未打良好就比較傾向現在 |
| 00:38:37,000 | 00:38:40,000 | 很像現在的那個平等 |
| 00:38:40,000 | 00:38:42,000 | 那我們最近歷年來 |
| 00:38:42,000 | 00:38:45,000 | 幾乎現在平等幾乎沒有設 |
| 00:38:45,000 | 00:38:48,000 | 沒有明確的法定的室友 |
| 00:38:48,000 | 00:38:50,000 | 我們機關打出來 |
| 00:38:50,000 | 00:38:51,000 | 會打平等的人數 |
| 00:38:51,000 | 00:38:54,000 | 大概不到0.1% |
| 00:38:54,000 | 00:38:57,000 | 也就是說機關事實上對這個事情 |
| 00:38:57,000 | 00:38:58,000 | 都非常非常慎重 |
| 00:38:58,000 | 00:39:00,000 | 而且他一定有一個踐行 |
| 00:39:00,000 | 00:39:03,000 | 後面的考級文會什麼一個程序 |
| 00:39:03,000 | 00:39:04,000 | 那我要講的只是這個 |
| 00:39:04,000 | 00:39:05,000 | 陳述這些事實 |
| 00:39:05,000 | 00:39:08,000 | 也就是說這些不確定性的概念 |
| 00:39:08,000 | 00:39:10,000 | 事實上現在在我們考基法的 |
| 00:39:10,000 | 00:39:11,000 | 施行記者 |
| 00:39:11,000 | 00:39:14,000 | 甚至在考基法的文字裡面也都有 |
| 00:39:14,000 | 00:39:17,000 | 所以怎麼樣讓這個文字能夠更 |
| 00:39:17,000 | 00:39:18,000 | 表示說有人有疑慮 |
| 00:39:18,000 | 00:39:21,000 | 類似說這會不會有點這個 |
| 00:39:21,000 | 00:39:23,000 | 有點太主觀怎麼樣 |
| 00:39:23,000 | 00:39:25,000 | 我覺得我們都願意在 |
| 00:39:25,000 | 00:39:27,000 | 譬如說逐條審查的時候 |
| 00:39:27,000 | 00:39:28,000 | 在法律文字上哪些部分 |
| 00:39:28,000 | 00:39:31,000 | 可以大家經過大家共同的一個討論 |
| 00:39:31,000 | 00:39:32,000 | 把它做得更好 |
| 00:39:32,000 | 00:39:33,000 | 我只是在陳述說 |
| 00:39:33,000 | 00:39:35,000 | 就是說我們部裡面就這個法案的 |
| 00:39:35,000 | 00:39:37,000 | 一個方式也做了這些事情 |
| 00:39:37,000 | 00:39:40,000 | 那當然委員的這個希望多聽 |
| 00:39:40,000 | 00:39:42,000 | 再聽多次一些意見 |
| 00:39:42,000 | 00:39:44,000 | 這個事情我就尊重這兩位 |
| 00:39:44,000 | 00:39:46,000 | 召委的最後的一個判斷謝謝 |
| 00:39:46,000 | 00:39:48,000 | 現在的公聽是這樣 |
| 00:39:48,000 | 00:39:50,000 | 現在公聽兩項叫的都差不多 |
| 00:39:50,000 | 00:39:52,000 | 那樣來發言都很刺激 |
| 00:39:52,000 | 00:39:53,000 | 都很刺激 |
| 00:39:53,000 | 00:39:55,000 | 但是這個也台灣的 |
| 00:39:55,000 | 00:39:57,000 | 很特殊的一個現象 |
| 00:39:57,000 | 00:39:58,000 | 這個也都尊重 |
| 00:39:58,000 | 00:40:00,000 | 那是不是也再來 |
| 00:40:00,000 | 00:40:01,000 | 我再來聽 |
| 00:40:01,000 | 00:40:02,000 | 因為畢竟這個是第二案 |
| 00:40:02,000 | 00:40:03,000 | 第一案其實不是這個 |
| 00:40:03,000 | 00:40:04,000 | 但沒有關係 |
| 00:40:04,000 | 00:40:06,000 | 既然聽了這個考試院 |
| 00:40:06,000 | 00:40:08,000 | 全序部這邊的看法 |
| 00:40:08,000 | 00:40:10,000 | 是不是再來聽聽 |
| 00:40:10,000 | 00:40:11,000 | 那個司法院 |
| 00:40:11,000 | 00:40:14,000 | 今天陳廳長有來嗎 |
| 00:40:14,000 | 00:40:15,000 | 司法院 |
| 00:40:15,000 | 00:40:17,000 | 司法院你們在看 |
| 00:40:17,000 | 00:40:19,000 | 你簡單給他回應一下 |
| 00:40:19,000 | 00:40:21,000 | 我看最有疑慮的就是你們 |
| 00:40:21,000 | 00:40:22,000 | 一個說沒關係 |
| 00:40:22,000 | 00:40:23,000 | 好 是的 |
| 00:40:23,000 | 00:40:26,000 | 我想跟主席跟各位委員報告 |
| 00:40:26,000 | 00:40:30,000 | 其實降級減縫 |
| 00:40:30,000 | 00:40:33,000 | 必須要經過司法的懲戒 |
| 00:40:33,000 | 00:40:38,000 | 這是4-483號解釋所揭示的 |
| 00:40:38,000 | 00:40:40,000 | 那這一號解釋呢 |
| 00:40:40,000 | 00:40:43,000 | 目前仍然有效 |
| 00:40:43,000 | 00:40:46,000 | 而且111憲判9 |
| 00:40:46,000 | 00:40:49,000 | 並沒有提到這一號解釋 |
| 00:40:49,000 | 00:40:53,000 | 也沒有排除這一號的解釋的適用 |
| 00:40:53,000 | 00:40:58,000 | 那因此在現行這個有效解釋下 |
| 00:40:58,000 | 00:41:02,000 | 這一部分就是屬於憲法未接 |
| 00:41:02,000 | 00:41:05,000 | 憲法層次上的一個保障 |
| 00:41:05,000 | 00:41:10,000 | 是不是可以直接用法律層次的法律 |
| 00:41:10,000 | 00:41:14,000 | 來改變憲法未接所設的制度性保障 |
| 00:41:14,000 | 00:41:16,000 | 我們認為有疑義的 |
| 00:41:16,000 | 00:41:21,000 | 而且剛才所引到的111憲判9 |
| 00:41:21,000 | 00:41:23,000 | 他解釋的標的 |
| 00:41:23,000 | 00:41:29,000 | 是公務人員丁等烤雞的免職 |
| 00:41:29,000 | 00:41:32,000 | 跟這裡所講到 |
| 00:41:32,000 | 00:41:36,000 | 草案所講到服務懲處 |
| 00:41:36,000 | 00:41:39,000 | 其實雖然名稱不同 |
| 00:41:39,000 | 00:41:42,000 | 但是也就是憲刑烤雞法 |
| 00:41:42,000 | 00:41:45,000 | 所講的專案烤雞懲處 |
| 00:41:45,000 | 00:41:49,000 | 這一塊大法官定性為 |
| 00:41:49,000 | 00:41:52,000 | 實質的懲戒處分 |
| 00:41:52,000 | 00:41:56,000 | 那我想這一塊我們的疑慮 |
| 00:41:56,000 | 00:42:01,000 | 還是認為說是跟4-483號解釋不符 |
| 00:42:01,000 | 00:42:06,000 | 那更何況111憲判9所講的 |
| 00:42:06,000 | 00:42:10,000 | 所處理的跟這邊的服務懲處 |
| 00:42:10,000 | 00:42:12,000 | 其實是不一樣的 |
| 00:42:12,000 | 00:42:14,000 | 沒有所謂舉重明輕 |
| 00:42:14,000 | 00:42:17,000 | 因為講的根本是不一樣的事實 |
| 00:42:17,000 | 00:42:22,000 | 更何況憲法的解釋權限 |
| 00:42:22,000 | 00:42:23,000 | 在於大法官 |
| 00:42:23,000 | 00:42:26,000 | 只有大法官有權來解釋憲法 |
| 00:42:26,000 | 00:42:30,000 | 其他任何人或任何機關都無權解釋 |
| 00:42:30,000 | 00:42:35,000 | 更是沒有辦法用舉重明輕這樣法理 |
| 00:42:35,000 | 00:42:40,000 | 就來任意的來解釋這個對憲法做解釋 |
| 00:42:40,000 | 00:42:46,000 | 認為說可以排除4-483號解釋的適用 |
| 00:42:46,000 | 00:42:50,000 | 所以這個是我們疑慮的所在 |
| 00:42:50,000 | 00:42:56,000 | 而且這一個法律20條第四項規定 |
| 00:42:56,000 | 00:42:59,000 | 當做了服務懲處之後 |
| 00:42:59,000 | 00:43:02,000 | 就不再移送懲戒 |
| 00:43:02,000 | 00:43:06,000 | 那麼我們再來配合16條的規定 |
| 00:43:06,000 | 00:43:10,000 | 16條這裡明定機關就公務人員 |
| 00:43:10,000 | 00:43:13,000 | 有應該受服務懲處的時候 |
| 00:43:13,000 | 00:43:16,000 | 要即時辦理 |
| 00:43:16,000 | 00:43:19,000 | 所以既然科宇機關即時辦理 |
| 00:43:19,000 | 00:43:22,000 | 服務懲處已經做了懲處之後 |
| 00:43:22,000 | 00:43:24,000 | 再搭配20條第四項 |
| 00:43:24,000 | 00:43:27,000 | 他就不可能再移送懲戒 |
| 00:43:27,000 | 00:43:31,000 | 所以我覺得這樣子一個制度的設計 |
| 00:43:31,000 | 00:43:34,000 | 實質上就是封鎖了 |
| 00:43:34,000 | 00:43:42,000 | 公務人員享有正當法律程序保障的懲戒權 |
| 00:43:42,000 | 00:43:45,000 | 那麼我們會覺得這樣的一個制度 |
| 00:43:45,000 | 00:43:48,000 | 恐怕對公務人員權利的保障 |
| 00:43:48,000 | 00:43:51,000 | 是有欠缺的 |
| 00:43:51,000 | 00:43:55,000 | 更何況如果做了行政懲處 |
| 00:43:55,000 | 00:44:00,000 | 他的就計是到行政法院去打行政訴訟 |
| 00:44:00,000 | 00:44:04,000 | 但是行政法院的行政訴訟 |
| 00:44:04,000 | 00:44:08,000 | 跟懲戒法院做的懲戒處分 |
| 00:44:08,000 | 00:44:11,000 | 其實這兩個目的不一樣 |
| 00:44:11,000 | 00:44:13,000 | 所以他的制度也不一樣 |
| 00:44:13,000 | 00:44:16,000 | 事實上懲戒法院做的懲戒處分 |
| 00:44:16,000 | 00:44:19,000 | 他是第一次對公務員 |
| 00:44:19,000 | 00:44:23,000 | 做出一個懲戒的處分 |
| 00:44:23,000 | 00:44:26,000 | 那行政訴訟 |
| 00:44:26,000 | 00:44:30,000 | 他是行政機關已經做了一個處分 |
| 00:44:30,000 | 00:44:32,000 | 公務人員認為他有違法 |
| 00:44:32,000 | 00:44:35,000 | 然後去打行政訴訟 |
| 00:44:35,000 | 00:44:40,000 | 所以行政訴訟是一個事後就計法院的概念 |
| 00:44:40,000 | 00:44:43,000 | 懲戒法院做的懲戒懲處 |
| 00:44:43,000 | 00:44:47,000 | 則是第一次來做一個處罰的決定 |
| 00:44:47,000 | 00:44:50,000 | 所以這兩個概念是不一樣的 |
| 00:44:50,000 | 00:44:53,000 | 因此行政訴訟 |
| 00:44:53,000 | 00:44:55,000 | 他有他的就計的 |
| 00:44:55,000 | 00:44:57,000 | 他的就計範圍比較窄 |
| 00:44:57,000 | 00:45:00,000 | 行政法院只是去審查 |
| 00:45:00,000 | 00:45:03,000 | 原來行政處分的合法性 |
| 00:45:03,000 | 00:45:08,000 | 他不會去審理到你的妥適性 |
| 00:45:08,000 | 00:45:12,000 | 因此行政訴訟 |
| 00:45:12,000 | 00:45:15,000 | 所能夠給予公務員就計 |
| 00:45:15,000 | 00:45:17,000 | 是有限的 |
| 00:45:17,000 | 00:45:19,000 | 再加上行政訴訟有一個 |
| 00:45:19,000 | 00:45:22,000 | 不利於變更禁止原則的限制 |
| 00:45:22,000 | 00:45:24,000 | 也就是今天機關 |
| 00:45:24,000 | 00:45:28,000 | 你如果對一個公務人員的違施行為 |
| 00:45:28,000 | 00:45:29,000 | 是比較重大的 |
| 00:45:29,000 | 00:45:32,000 | 結果你去做了一個懲戒處分 |
| 00:45:32,000 | 00:45:34,000 | 當你做了懲戒處分之後 |
| 00:45:34,000 | 00:45:37,000 | 他就不可以再送司法的懲戒 |
| 00:45:37,000 | 00:45:39,000 | 這個懲戒處分 |
| 00:45:39,000 | 00:45:41,000 | 跑到行政訴訟去就計 |
| 00:45:41,000 | 00:45:45,000 | 行政法院也只能審查你合不合法而已 |
| 00:45:45,000 | 00:45:47,000 | 不能夠去審查你適不適當 |
| 00:45:47,000 | 00:45:51,000 | 是不是應該要判更重的處分的種類 |
| 00:45:51,000 | 00:45:54,000 | 行政法院沒有辦法做到這一件事 |
| 00:45:54,000 | 00:45:58,000 | 因此我們覺得這一個整套的制度 |
| 00:45:58,000 | 00:46:00,000 | 因此我們覺得 |
| 00:46:00,000 | 00:46:03,000 | 不管在制度的設計上 |
| 00:46:03,000 | 00:46:04,000 | 是有不足的 |
| 00:46:04,000 | 00:46:09,000 | 或者是甚至與目前現行有效的 |
| 00:46:09,000 | 00:46:12,000 | 釋字483 491 |
| 00:46:12,000 | 00:46:14,000 | 宣判111 |
| 00:46:14,000 | 00:46:17,000 | 111宣判9號的解釋意旨 |
| 00:46:17,000 | 00:46:19,000 | 都是有違反的 |
| 00:46:19,000 | 00:46:21,000 | 以上是我們的疑慮與說明 |
| 00:46:21,000 | 00:46:23,000 | 謝謝 |
| 00:46:23,000 | 00:46:25,000 | 好謝謝 |
| 00:46:25,000 | 00:46:27,000 | 我來處理一下 |
| 00:46:27,000 | 00:46:28,000 | 因為這條 |
| 00:46:28,000 | 00:46:30,000 | 這涉及到憲法44條 |
| 00:46:30,000 | 00:46:31,000 | 這個院紀紛爭 |
| 00:46:31,000 | 00:46:32,000 | 這要大腳的 |
| 00:46:32,000 | 00:46:34,000 | 總統來調節 |
| 00:46:34,000 | 00:46:36,000 | 這我們在這裡沒辦法 |
| 00:46:36,000 | 00:46:38,000 | 所以我倒這樣看法 |
| 00:46:38,000 | 00:46:39,000 | 院紀之間 |
| 00:46:39,000 | 00:46:41,000 | 不管是對於權限 |
| 00:46:41,000 | 00:46:43,000 | 或是法律間接 |
| 00:46:43,000 | 00:46:44,000 | 這個 |
| 00:46:44,000 | 00:46:47,000 | 這個到底要不要動用到總統 |
| 00:46:47,000 | 00:46:49,000 | 這個院紀調節權 |
| 00:46:49,000 | 00:46:52,000 | 這個是看法會有所不同 |
| 00:46:52,000 | 00:46:54,000 | 但是至少 |
| 00:46:54,000 | 00:46:57,000 | 歐盟委員剛提到了 |
| 00:46:57,000 | 00:46:59,000 | 這個又確實涉及到 |
| 00:46:59,000 | 00:47:02,000 | 很多公務人員他本身的一個權益的問題 |
| 00:47:02,000 | 00:47:04,000 | 確實我這邊也收到 |
| 00:47:04,000 | 00:47:06,000 | 辦公室也收到很多 |
| 00:47:06,000 | 00:47:08,000 | 不然這樣主席來做裁示 |
| 00:47:08,000 | 00:47:09,000 | 雖然這是第二案 |
| 00:47:09,000 | 00:47:11,000 | 我們今天這個 |
| 00:47:11,000 | 00:47:13,000 | 這個案子先不處理 |
| 00:47:13,000 | 00:47:15,000 | 我們擇期再審 |
| 00:47:15,000 | 00:47:16,000 | 先一天公聽 |
| 00:47:16,000 | 00:47:18,000 | 更好 |
| 00:47:18,000 | 00:47:19,000 | 別的地方 |
| 00:47:19,000 | 00:47:20,000 | 或者院會 |
| 00:47:20,000 | 00:47:22,000 | 動不動就驚呼二讀 |
| 00:47:22,000 | 00:47:24,000 | 連委員會也沒討論 |
| 00:47:24,000 | 00:47:26,000 | 我們常常在批評 |
| 00:47:26,000 | 00:47:27,000 | 所以 |
| 00:47:27,000 | 00:47:28,000 | 這個部分 |
| 00:47:28,000 | 00:47:29,000 | 司法法制委員會 |
| 00:47:29,000 | 00:47:30,000 | 我們就不要 |
| 00:47:30,000 | 00:47:31,000 | 所以 |
| 00:47:31,000 | 00:47:33,000 | 本次的議程 |
| 00:47:33,000 | 00:47:35,000 | 台灣事項排第二案 |
| 00:47:35,000 | 00:47:36,000 | 本次會議 |
| 00:47:36,000 | 00:47:40,000 | 我們就來實質審查第一案 |
| 00:47:40,000 | 00:47:41,000 | 這個 |
| 00:47:41,000 | 00:47:43,000 | 毒害防治條例 |
| 00:47:43,000 | 00:47:44,000 | 第二案 |
| 00:47:44,000 | 00:47:48,000 | 我們就另期來繼續審查 |
| 00:47:48,000 | 00:47:51,000 | 跟第一案無關的獵食人員 |
| 00:47:51,000 | 00:47:53,000 | 可以先行離席 |
| 00:47:53,000 | 00:47:54,000 | 你看你們就笑臉了 |
| 00:47:54,000 | 00:47:55,000 | 你看 |
| 00:47:57,000 | 00:47:59,000 | 你們就先不要離席 |
| 00:47:59,000 | 00:48:00,000 | 先不要離席 |
| 00:48:00,000 | 00:48:02,000 | 那就不管 |
| 00:48:02,000 | 00:48:04,000 | 就兩分鐘 |
| 00:48:06,000 | 00:48:07,000 | 再辦一堂公聽 |
| 00:48:07,000 | 00:48:08,000 | 合理啦 |
| 00:48:08,000 | 00:48:09,000 | 謝謝召委支持 |
| 00:48:09,000 | 00:48:10,000 | 不要再說合理啦 |
| 00:48:10,000 | 00:48:11,000 | 合理 |
| 00:48:19,000 | 00:48:22,000 | 我們現在來進行提案說明 |
| 00:48:22,000 | 00:48:23,000 | 首先 |
| 00:48:23,000 | 00:48:25,000 | 提案說明喔 |
| 00:48:25,000 | 00:48:26,000 | 提案說明 |
| 00:48:26,000 | 00:48:31,000 | 跟第一案無關的獵食人員 |
| 00:48:31,000 | 00:48:33,000 | 可以先行離開 |
| 00:48:37,000 | 00:48:39,000 | 來我們會議要繼續喔 |
| 00:48:39,000 | 00:48:41,000 | 我們會議要繼續喔 |
| 00:48:41,000 | 00:48:43,000 | 提案說明的部分 |
| 00:48:43,000 | 00:48:46,000 | 我們是不是先請翁委員小林 |
| 00:48:46,000 | 00:48:48,000 | 來進行提案說明 |
| 00:48:48,000 | 00:48:50,000 | 時間三分鐘 |
| 00:48:50,000 | 00:48:51,000 | 好 |
| 00:48:51,000 | 00:48:53,000 | 謝謝召委喔 |
| 00:48:53,000 | 00:48:54,000 | 那麼今天呢 |
| 00:48:54,000 | 00:48:57,000 | 我們其實主要要審查 |
| 00:48:57,000 | 00:48:59,000 | 毒品危害防治條例 |
| 00:48:59,000 | 00:49:02,000 | 第三十三條條文的修正案 |
| 00:49:02,000 | 00:49:04,000 | 那本案的核心目標呢 |
| 00:49:04,000 | 00:49:05,000 | 主要就是為了要防止 |
| 00:49:05,000 | 00:49:06,000 | 毒品的氾濫 |
| 00:49:06,000 | 00:49:08,000 | 並且要因應新興毒品 |
| 00:49:08,000 | 00:49:10,000 | 與適用型態的演變 |
| 00:49:10,000 | 00:49:11,000 | 那麼 |
| 00:49:11,000 | 00:49:12,000 | 因為在現行條文裡面呢 |
| 00:49:12,000 | 00:49:15,000 | 只有針對尿液檢驗 |
| 00:49:15,000 | 00:49:17,000 | 也就是針對特定人員來 |
| 00:49:17,000 | 00:49:18,000 | 尿液檢驗 |
| 00:49:18,000 | 00:49:20,000 | 也就是針對特定人員來 |
| 00:49:20,000 | 00:49:22,000 | 實施尿液檢驗 |
| 00:49:22,000 | 00:49:23,000 | 但是我們知道現在 |
| 00:49:23,000 | 00:49:25,000 | 其實檢測毒品的方式 |
| 00:49:25,000 | 00:49:26,000 | 日新月異 |
| 00:49:26,000 | 00:49:29,000 | 而且也多了很多種不同的選項 |
| 00:49:29,000 | 00:49:30,000 | 所以在這次 |
| 00:49:30,000 | 00:49:33,000 | 除了就是大多數的委員提案 |
| 00:49:33,000 | 00:49:36,000 | 要增列唾液採驗之外 |
| 00:49:36,000 | 00:49:37,000 | 那本席呢 |
| 00:49:37,000 | 00:49:38,000 | 更主張也可以將 |
| 00:49:38,000 | 00:49:42,000 | 毛法納入法定毒品的檢測方式 |
| 00:49:42,000 | 00:49:43,000 | 因為這不僅是技術的升級 |
| 00:49:43,000 | 00:49:45,000 | 而且更是完善我國 |
| 00:49:45,000 | 00:49:47,000 | 毒品防治體系 |
| 00:49:47,000 | 00:49:48,000 | 極為關鍵的一部 |
| 00:49:48,000 | 00:49:49,000 | 那麼為什麼 |
| 00:49:49,000 | 00:49:50,000 | 我認為說 |
| 00:49:50,000 | 00:49:52,000 | 除了現行的尿液檢驗 |
| 00:49:52,000 | 00:49:53,000 | 還有 |
| 00:49:53,000 | 00:49:54,000 | 待會大家要討論的 |
| 00:49:54,000 | 00:49:56,000 | 要多增加唾液檢驗之外 |
| 00:49:56,000 | 00:49:58,000 | 還要增訂毛髮檢驗呢 |
| 00:49:58,000 | 00:50:00,000 | 主要只有三大理由 |
| 00:50:00,000 | 00:50:01,000 | 第一個就是要彌補 |
| 00:50:01,000 | 00:50:03,000 | 傳統檢測的盲點 |
| 00:50:03,000 | 00:50:05,000 | 可以展現長效追溯力 |
| 00:50:05,000 | 00:50:06,000 | 現行的食物呢 |
| 00:50:06,000 | 00:50:08,000 | 主要是依賴尿液的檢驗 |
| 00:50:08,000 | 00:50:09,000 | 但是尿液呢 |
| 00:50:09,000 | 00:50:10,000 | 是受限於藥物 |
| 00:50:10,000 | 00:50:12,000 | 在人體內的代謝速度 |
| 00:50:12,000 | 00:50:13,000 | 所以我們多數的毒品 |
| 00:50:13,000 | 00:50:14,000 | 在施用後 |
| 00:50:14,000 | 00:50:15,000 | 大概72小時之後 |
| 00:50:15,000 | 00:50:16,000 | 就很難以檢出 |
| 00:50:16,000 | 00:50:18,000 | 那麼相比之下 |
| 00:50:18,000 | 00:50:20,000 | 毒品代謝物會隨著血液 |
| 00:50:20,000 | 00:50:21,000 | 進入毛囊 |
| 00:50:21,000 | 00:50:23,000 | 並且流存於毛髮當中 |
| 00:50:23,000 | 00:50:25,000 | 所以透過毛髮的分段檢驗 |
| 00:50:25,000 | 00:50:27,000 | 檢驗出的期間 |
| 00:50:27,000 | 00:50:29,000 | 可以長達數年 |
| 00:50:29,000 | 00:50:30,000 | 而且還能夠完整的 |
| 00:50:30,000 | 00:50:32,000 | 還原受檢者 |
| 00:50:32,000 | 00:50:33,000 | 在一定期間之內的 |
| 00:50:33,000 | 00:50:34,000 | 施用歷程 |
| 00:50:34,000 | 00:50:36,000 | 是可以有效的補足 |
| 00:50:36,000 | 00:50:38,000 | 尿液時間的這個局限 |
| 00:50:38,000 | 00:50:39,000 | 好 |
| 00:50:39,000 | 00:50:40,000 | 那第二個就是可以 |
| 00:50:40,000 | 00:50:41,000 | 互補發揮最大的效益 |
| 00:50:41,000 | 00:50:42,000 | 提升證據的可信度 |
| 00:50:43,000 | 00:50:45,000 | 目前這個毛髮檢驗 |
| 00:50:45,000 | 00:50:48,000 | 並非是要完全取代尿液的檢驗 |
| 00:50:48,000 | 00:50:50,000 | 而是雙管齊下 |
| 00:50:50,000 | 00:50:53,000 | 尿液的檢測其實是適合 |
| 00:50:53,000 | 00:50:56,000 | 可以釐清近期有沒有施用 |
| 00:50:56,000 | 00:50:58,000 | 而毛髮檢查呢 |
| 00:50:58,000 | 00:51:00,000 | 則是可以在食物上 |
| 00:51:00,000 | 00:51:02,000 | 作為極佳的補強證據 |
| 00:51:02,000 | 00:51:03,000 | 兩種檢測的方式 |
| 00:51:03,000 | 00:51:05,000 | 可以互相相互補充 |
| 00:51:05,000 | 00:51:07,000 | 不僅能夠提升檢驗的完整性 |
| 00:51:07,000 | 00:51:08,000 | 更能夠強化 |
| 00:51:08,000 | 00:51:11,000 | 司法產生的科學性與可信度 |
| 00:51:11,000 | 00:51:13,000 | 第三個就是技術規範要明確化 |
| 00:51:13,000 | 00:51:15,000 | 我們也兼顧人群與各自的保障 |
| 00:51:15,000 | 00:51:17,000 | 過去食物雖然說有將 |
| 00:51:17,000 | 00:51:19,000 | 已經將毛髮檢驗作為輔助的方式 |
| 00:51:19,000 | 00:51:23,000 | 但是在法制上對於毛髮檢體的採集 |
| 00:51:23,000 | 00:51:26,000 | 保存使用銷毀及識別 |
| 00:51:26,000 | 00:51:28,000 | 以及去識別化的處理 |
| 00:51:28,000 | 00:51:31,000 | 往往缺乏明確的法律授權 |
| 00:51:31,000 | 00:51:33,000 | 這次的修法呢 |
| 00:51:33,000 | 00:51:36,000 | 就明確地將毛髮納入本條的第一項 |
| 00:51:36,000 | 00:51:38,000 | 並且與第二項授權行政院 |
| 00:51:38,000 | 00:51:40,000 | 訂定實施辦法 |
| 00:51:40,000 | 00:51:43,000 | 可以讓第一項執行人員有法可循 |
| 00:51:43,000 | 00:51:46,000 | 同時也可以為了民眾的人身自由 |
| 00:51:46,000 | 00:51:48,000 | 資訊自主以及個人的隱私權 |
| 00:51:48,000 | 00:51:50,000 | 提供完善的制度保障 |
| 00:51:50,000 | 00:51:53,000 | 總結來說本席提案就是 |
| 00:51:53,000 | 00:51:55,000 | 除了要增加唾液之外 |
| 00:51:55,000 | 00:51:57,000 | 還要再增加毛髮採驗 |
| 00:51:57,000 | 00:51:59,000 | 可以將這個部分呢 |
| 00:51:59,000 | 00:52:00,000 | 一起法制化 |
| 00:52:00,000 | 00:52:04,000 | 能夠精準與現代建設的技術接軌 |
| 00:52:04,000 | 00:52:06,000 | 兼顧毒品、茶器、食物需求 |
| 00:52:06,000 | 00:52:08,000 | 以及基本人權的保障 |
| 00:52:08,000 | 00:52:10,000 | 所以在這邊還請各位委員 |
| 00:52:10,000 | 00:52:12,000 | 支持本席所提的提案 |
| 00:52:12,000 | 00:52:13,000 | 謝謝 |
| 00:52:13,000 | 00:52:17,000 | 好 謝謝翁曉玲委員的提案說明 |
| 00:52:17,000 | 00:52:20,000 | 那接下來請林茜淇委員來做提案說明 |
| 00:52:20,000 | 00:52:22,000 | 有話要說嗎 |
| 00:52:22,000 | 00:52:24,000 | 你剛才有說嗎 |
| 00:52:24,000 | 00:52:27,000 | 好沒關係 沒什麼話說也可以 |
| 00:52:27,000 | 00:52:32,000 | 好 那 |
| 00:52:36,000 | 00:52:40,000 | 今日在提出的書面的 |
| 00:52:40,000 | 00:52:41,000 | 書面報告的機關 |
| 00:52:41,000 | 00:52:44,000 | 相關的書面內容請各位來參閱 |
| 00:52:44,000 | 00:52:46,000 | 並列入公報紀錄 |
| 00:52:46,000 | 00:52:51,000 | 那由於討論事項第一案報告詢答完畢 |
| 00:52:51,000 | 00:52:54,000 | 那決議令定期繼續審查 |
| 00:52:54,000 | 00:52:56,000 | 那今日會議就不再詢答 |
| 00:52:56,000 | 00:52:58,000 | 進行來做審查 |
| 00:52:58,000 | 00:53:00,000 | 現在來進行討論事項 |
| 00:53:02,000 | 00:53:04,000 | 討論事項前我們先請醫事人員 |
| 00:53:04,000 | 00:53:08,000 | 來宣讀討論事項各案的提案條文 |
| 00:53:08,000 | 00:53:11,000 | 預估宣讀時間兩分鐘 |
| 00:53:11,000 | 00:53:14,000 | 那另外為例審查如果有修正動議 |
| 00:53:14,000 | 00:53:16,000 | 或者附帶決議的提出 |
| 00:53:16,000 | 00:53:18,000 | 請儘速將書面送交主席台 |
| 00:53:18,000 | 00:53:21,000 | BD來印發現場進行討論 |
| 00:53:21,000 | 00:53:23,000 | 如果有收到這個修正動議 |
| 00:53:23,000 | 00:53:25,000 | 一併來做宣讀 |
| 00:53:25,000 | 00:53:29,000 | 宣讀以後我們就逐案進行討論請宣讀 |
| 00:53:53,000 | 00:53:56,000 | 除第二項修正為前項特定人員之範圍 |
| 00:53:56,000 | 00:54:00,000 | 採驗尿液或唾液之程序方式及其他相關事項之辦法 |
| 00:54:00,000 | 00:54:02,000 | 由行政院定之外 |
| 00:54:02,000 | 00:54:09,000 | 其餘同行政院提案委員許宜珍等委員林淑芬等委員羅美林等委員張雅琳等委員陳培宇等提案第三三條 |
| 00:54:09,000 | 00:54:13,000 | 就同行政院提案委員鍾嘉斌等提案第三三條 |
| 00:54:13,000 | 00:54:17,000 | 除第一項及第二項局中的尿液後增列唾液血液或毛髮外 |
| 00:54:17,000 | 00:54:22,000 | 其餘同現行條文委員林月琴等委員廖偉祥等委員伍立華等提案第三三條 |
| 00:54:22,000 | 00:54:25,000 | 就同行政院提案委員謝龍介等提案第三三條 |
| 00:54:25,000 | 00:54:36,000 | 同委員羅庭薇等提案委員許富奎等委員林依晶等委員吳思耀等委員林倩琪等委員吳佩儀等委員賴慧元等提案第三三條 |
| 00:54:36,000 | 00:54:39,000 | 就同行政院提案委員吳其銘等提案第三三條 |
| 00:54:39,000 | 00:54:47,000 | 除第一項及第二項局中的尿液後增列或唾液塊塞外其餘同現行條文委員郭育晴等提案第三三條 |
| 00:54:47,000 | 00:54:51,000 | 同行政院提案委員許志杰等提案第三三條 |
| 00:54:51,000 | 00:54:54,000 | 同委員鍾嘉斌等提案委員翁曉琳等提案第三三條 |
| 00:54:54,000 | 00:54:57,000 | 除第一項及第二項局中的尿液後增列 |
| 00:54:57,000 | 00:55:02,000 | 敦號毛髮或唾液外其餘同現行條文委員翁曉琳等提案第三三條之一 |
| 00:55:02,000 | 00:55:07,000 | 除條文中的尿液後均增列敦號毛髮外其餘同現行條文 |
| 00:55:07,000 | 00:55:09,000 | 行政院提案第三六條 |
| 00:55:09,000 | 00:55:15,000 | 除在後段條文中的第三三條之一後增列某年某月某日修正這條文外其餘同現行條文 |
| 00:55:15,000 | 00:55:42,000 | 委員羅志強等委員羅廷威等委員許宇貞等委員林淑芬等委員羅美林等委員張雅琳等委員陳培宇等委員鍾嘉斌等委員林月晴等委員廖偉祥等委員吳麗華等委員謝龍介等委員許富奎等委員林一基等委員林倩琪等委員吳佩儀等委員賴慧元等委員吳琴等委員吳育晴等委員郭育晴等委員許志杰等委員翁曉琳等提案第三三三六條局中行政院提案 |
| 00:55:42,000 | 00:55:44,000 | 提案 |
| 00:56:12,000 | 00:56:15,000 | 提案 |
| 00:56:42,000 | 00:56:45,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:12,000 | 00:57:15,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:15,000 | 00:57:18,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:18,000 | 00:57:21,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:21,000 | 00:57:24,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:24,000 | 00:57:27,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:27,000 | 00:57:30,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:30,000 | 00:57:33,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:33,000 | 00:57:36,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:36,000 | 00:57:39,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:39,000 | 00:57:42,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:42,000 | 00:57:45,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:45,000 | 00:57:48,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:48,000 | 00:57:51,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:51,000 | 00:57:54,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:54,000 | 00:57:57,000 | 提案 |
| 00:57:57,000 | 00:58:00,000 | 提案 |
| 00:58:00,000 | 00:58:03,000 | 提案 |
| 00:58:03,000 | 00:58:06,000 | 提案 |
| 00:58:06,000 | 00:58:09,000 | 提案 |
| 00:58:09,000 | 00:58:12,000 | 提案 |
| 00:58:12,000 | 00:58:15,000 | 提案 |
| 00:58:15,000 | 00:58:19,400 | 為了防止毒品氾濫對特定人採驗增劣、唾液 |
| 00:58:19,400 | 00:58:24,940 | 有提案令徵毛髮協議為採驗的一個種類的部分 |
| 00:58:24,940 | 00:58:30,800 | 我看是不是大家有沒有什麼特別的看法 |
| 00:58:31,800 | 00:58:33,300 | 來 林謙吉委員 |
| 00:58:33,300 | 00:58:36,900 | 好 張偉還有各位同仁 大家好 |
| 00:58:36,900 | 00:58:39,600 | 那真的是一個部分 像我們提出來 |
| 00:58:39,600 | 00:58:42,900 | 有關於這個毒品檢測的這個科技 |
| 00:58:42,900 | 00:58:45,600 | 其實一直在持續的精進 |
| 00:58:45,600 | 00:58:49,500 | 那各種身為的檢體在於這個準確性、時效性 |
| 00:58:49,500 | 00:58:52,200 | 還有採樣的便利性跟適用情境 |
| 00:58:52,200 | 00:58:54,900 | 也都有很多很成熟的發展 |
| 00:58:54,900 | 00:58:58,500 | 那最主要現在這個我們毒品危害防治條例 |
| 00:58:58,500 | 00:59:01,100 | 那僅僅以尿液作為採檢 |
| 00:59:01,100 | 00:59:03,800 | 其實也很難回應不同種類 |
| 00:59:03,800 | 00:59:06,400 | 還有列管對象跟實際的一個需求 |
| 00:59:06,400 | 00:59:11,500 | 所以主要是為了毒品防治制度的彈性跟執行的效能 |
| 00:59:11,500 | 00:59:14,800 | 然後更擴大這個法定的採檢方式 |
| 00:59:14,800 | 00:59:19,800 | 讓主管機關能夠將其列管對象做一個比較有效的管理 |
| 00:59:19,800 | 00:59:23,000 | 然後在執行場域的特性跟風險程度上 |
| 00:59:23,000 | 00:59:26,900 | 能夠比較採行適當之檢體的採驗措施 |
| 00:59:26,900 | 00:59:29,400 | 然後相關的一個 |
| 00:59:29,400 | 00:59:34,300 | 與時俱進的方式能夠比較授權這樣一個規範 |
| 00:59:34,300 | 00:59:36,800 | 那整個法治面可以做一個強制 |
| 00:59:36,800 | 00:59:40,600 | 那至於我們也有其他同仁提到了一些更精進的 |
| 00:59:40,600 | 00:59:41,799 | 包括毛法的這個部分 |
| 00:59:41,799 | 00:59:44,500 | 就都可以一併來考量 |
| 00:59:44,500 | 00:59:47,700 | 那因為現在科技進步的蠻快的 |
| 00:59:47,700 | 00:59:49,600 | 所以我們也必須與時俱進 |
| 00:59:49,600 | 00:59:54,400 | 然後很即時的來做一些檢測及擴大效能的一些管理 |
| 00:59:54,400 | 00:59:56,200 | 那以上說明 |
| 00:59:56,200 | 00:59:57,900 | 謝謝 |
| 00:59:57,900 | 01:00:01,000 | 好來 接下來陳昭之委員 |
| 01:00:01,000 | 01:00:03,700 | 謝謝 剛剛這個千祺還有歐文委員 |
| 01:00:03,700 | 01:00:05,700 | 他們都有提到毛法的部分 |
| 01:00:05,700 | 01:00:07,200 | 那這個部分我個人支持 |
| 01:00:07,299 | 01:00:08,799 | 就是能夠想盡辦法 |
| 01:00:08,799 | 01:00:10,600 | 就是把這個事實找出來 |
| 01:00:10,600 | 01:00:13,500 | 那但是現在應該衛福布斯在場 |
| 01:00:13,500 | 01:00:15,299 | 就是我想知道那個毛法 |
| 01:00:15,299 | 01:00:20,200 | 因為這個像唾液的檢驗應該是現場立即 |
| 01:00:20,200 | 01:00:22,700 | 可能可以有初步的這個反應 |
| 01:00:22,700 | 01:00:24,899 | 但是等一下我會再提到決議說明 |
| 01:00:24,899 | 01:00:27,600 | 就有一些偽陽性我們還是要小心處理 |
| 01:00:27,600 | 01:00:29,100 | 那有關毛法的部分 |
| 01:00:29,100 | 01:00:31,500 | 它不可能現場做檢驗 |
| 01:00:31,500 | 01:00:34,899 | 所以它一定是有一個運送的過程 |
| 01:00:34,899 | 01:00:36,399 | 或是一個時間的過程 |
| 01:00:36,400 | 01:00:37,400 | 就是後來 |
| 01:00:37,400 | 01:00:41,300 | 到底這個我們檢驗的那個能力準確性 |
| 01:00:41,300 | 01:00:43,000 | 多久以後會生效等等 |
| 01:00:43,000 | 01:00:45,500 | 然後這個當中涉及這個樣本的 |
| 01:00:45,500 | 01:00:48,400 | 傳送到哪個地方去做處理等等 |
| 01:00:48,400 | 01:00:49,600 | 我是支持有這個做法 |
| 01:00:49,600 | 01:00:51,400 | 但是我是希望能夠了解 |
| 01:00:51,400 | 01:00:53,300 | 那是不是可以請衛福部 |
| 01:00:53,300 | 01:00:56,100 | 這個部分是衛福部來做的嗎 |
| 01:00:56,100 | 01:00:58,700 | 可不可以請衛福部代表來跟我們說明一下 |
| 01:00:58,700 | 01:01:00,100 | 就是加入毛法檢驗 |
| 01:01:00,100 | 01:01:03,000 | 你們在實際上的做法會是如何 |
| 01:01:03,000 | 01:01:03,900 | 讓我們更安心 |
| 01:01:03,900 | 01:01:06,500 | 那我個人支持是這個加入的 |
| 01:01:06,500 | 01:01:07,400 | 好嗎謝謝 |
| 01:01:08,800 | 01:01:09,800 | 來沒關係 |
| 01:01:09,800 | 01:01:11,800 | 先每一個委員先 |
| 01:01:11,800 | 01:01:14,800 | 先大家講我說 |
| 01:01:14,800 | 01:01:16,400 | 來翁曉玲委員 |
| 01:01:17,200 | 01:01:19,900 | 是趙偉還有各位委員好 |
| 01:01:19,900 | 01:01:21,800 | 那麼本席這次 |
| 01:01:21,800 | 01:01:24,800 | 所提出的就是要針對 |
| 01:01:24,800 | 01:01:27,800 | 這個現在我們這次修法 |
| 01:01:27,800 | 01:01:31,200 | 主要是就是對於就是特定人員的檢驗 |
| 01:01:31,200 | 01:01:33,600 | 除了現在的尿液檢驗之外 |
| 01:01:33,600 | 01:01:36,700 | 我們多增加了唾液的這個篩檢 |
| 01:01:36,700 | 01:01:39,200 | 那麼這是大多數委員的提案 |
| 01:01:39,200 | 01:01:40,900 | 那我本身是針對 |
| 01:01:40,900 | 01:01:43,200 | 除了要多增加唾液之外 |
| 01:01:43,200 | 01:01:45,500 | 還要多增加毛法的檢驗 |
| 01:01:45,500 | 01:01:47,299 | 那麼我的想法很簡單 |
| 01:01:47,299 | 01:01:50,500 | 第一個既然是我們是要去了解 |
| 01:01:50,500 | 01:01:52,900 | 到底現在一些特定的人員 |
| 01:01:52,900 | 01:01:56,299 | 他們可能在執行相關毒品的這個 |
| 01:01:56,299 | 01:01:59,100 | 查驗當中他們至於本身可能有吸食 |
| 01:01:59,100 | 01:02:03,400 | 所以也要針對這些受監督的這個特定人員 |
| 01:02:03,400 | 01:02:07,300 | 我們要去採集他們有沒有可能會有吸食毒品 |
| 01:02:07,300 | 01:02:08,500 | 既然是如此的話 |
| 01:02:08,500 | 01:02:11,300 | 那當然我們檢測的工具 |
| 01:02:11,300 | 01:02:13,800 | 檢測的方法可以多幾個 |
| 01:02:13,800 | 01:02:15,500 | 而且就像我們說的 |
| 01:02:15,500 | 01:02:20,600 | 就現在其實檢驗到底有沒有吸毒的這個方法 |
| 01:02:20,600 | 01:02:23,200 | 其實很多也不只是毛法 |
| 01:02:23,200 | 01:02:26,400 | 我前幾天還問了這個電視科學的專家 |
| 01:02:26,400 | 01:02:28,600 | 他們說其實現在包含剪指甲 |
| 01:02:28,600 | 01:02:31,000 | 其實指甲都可以去測試的 |
| 01:02:31,100 | 01:02:35,100 | 那因此就是對於這個特定人員 |
| 01:02:35,100 | 01:02:38,900 | 我們要給他檢查有沒有吸毒這件事情 |
| 01:02:38,900 | 01:02:42,000 | 透過尿液這當然是一個傳統的方法 |
| 01:02:42,000 | 01:02:44,600 | 但是其實去檢驗尿液 |
| 01:02:44,600 | 01:02:46,400 | 其實我個人覺得也是麻煩 |
| 01:02:46,400 | 01:02:49,300 | 那如果說可以讓受監督人 |
| 01:02:49,300 | 01:02:51,100 | 就是要被檢查的人 |
| 01:02:51,100 | 01:02:54,700 | 他自己可以選擇他到底是要用尿液 |
| 01:02:54,700 | 01:02:58,600 | 唾液還是說是用毛法 |
| 01:02:58,700 | 01:02:59,900 | 那麼這個事實上 |
| 01:02:59,900 | 01:03:03,000 | 他都是可以做為去一個檢測的方式 |
| 01:03:03,000 | 01:03:06,000 | 剛剛招資委員這裡有提到就是說 |
| 01:03:06,000 | 01:03:08,299 | 像尿液的檢測可能也不是 |
| 01:03:08,299 | 01:03:12,900 | 當場就可以做出來結果的 |
| 01:03:12,900 | 01:03:13,299 | 對不對 |
| 01:03:13,299 | 01:03:14,900 | 毛髮反應比較長期 |
| 01:03:14,900 | 01:03:16,100 | 然後可能要更 |
| 01:03:16,100 | 01:03:19,000 | 對 可能毛髮在檢查的當中 |
| 01:03:19,000 | 01:03:20,299 | 他的過程可能 |
| 01:03:20,299 | 01:03:21,200 | 這樣毛髮過去 |
| 01:03:21,200 | 01:03:22,600 | 我了解重金屬 |
| 01:03:22,600 | 01:03:23,700 | 所以我要請專家講話 |
| 01:03:23,700 | 01:03:26,200 | 就可能要十根以上之類的 |
| 01:03:26,299 | 01:03:28,700 | 那個量不是說一兩根就足夠等等 |
| 01:03:28,700 | 01:03:30,700 | 這個有關專業執勤的部分 |
| 01:03:30,700 | 01:03:32,100 | 所以我要講的就是說 |
| 01:03:32,100 | 01:03:34,399 | 其實因為我知道 |
| 01:03:34,399 | 01:03:35,799 | 法務部可能有一些意見 |
| 01:03:35,799 | 01:03:37,299 | 認為說毛髮 |
| 01:03:37,299 | 01:03:39,799 | 用毛髮檢測可能是一種侵入 |
| 01:03:39,799 | 01:03:41,500 | 可是其實坦白說 |
| 01:03:41,500 | 01:03:44,700 | 我倒不覺得毛髮的檢測是一種侵入 |
| 01:03:44,700 | 01:03:47,200 | 反而是像是尿檢或唾液 |
| 01:03:47,200 | 01:03:49,299 | 如果說用唾液篩檢 |
| 01:03:49,299 | 01:03:52,200 | 這個受監督人他硬是嘴巴閉著 |
| 01:03:52,200 | 01:03:53,200 | 他不張開 |
| 01:03:53,200 | 01:03:54,899 | 你也是要把他的嘴巴打開 |
| 01:03:54,899 | 01:03:56,000 | 然後進去去測 |
| 01:03:56,000 | 01:03:57,600 | 那反而是頭髮來講話 |
| 01:03:57,600 | 01:03:59,300 | 他也不見得一定要去拔 |
| 01:03:59,300 | 01:04:00,400 | 要有那個毛囊 |
| 01:04:00,400 | 01:04:02,900 | 他其實這個只要有剪到 |
| 01:04:02,900 | 01:04:04,100 | 一幾根的話 |
| 01:04:04,100 | 01:04:05,800 | 其實應該也就足夠了 |
| 01:04:05,800 | 01:04:06,800 | 當然我知道 |
| 01:04:06,800 | 01:04:10,200 | 如果說是今天要去增加毛髮的檢測 |
| 01:04:10,200 | 01:04:13,400 | 可能會造成就是相關的單位 |
| 01:04:13,400 | 01:04:15,200 | 他們要多花一些錢 |
| 01:04:15,200 | 01:04:18,600 | 未來可能要去做這個毛髮的這個檢測 |
| 01:04:18,600 | 01:04:22,700 | 開始委託給外面的專業的實驗室去做 |
| 01:04:22,700 | 01:04:24,200 | 或者是說 |
| 01:04:24,200 | 01:04:26,799 | 自己可能要增加人力設備去檢驗 |
| 01:04:26,799 | 01:04:28,500 | 但是我的想法是說 |
| 01:04:28,500 | 01:04:33,200 | 如果說是從防治毒品的這個角度來看的話 |
| 01:04:33,200 | 01:04:36,799 | 有更多不同可以去檢測毒品的方法 |
| 01:04:36,799 | 01:04:38,000 | 我都是支持的 |
| 01:04:38,000 | 01:04:40,100 | 那甚至包含就是我們剛剛說的 |
| 01:04:40,100 | 01:04:43,799 | 連指甲其實都可以作為一個檢測的一個手段 |
| 01:04:43,799 | 01:04:44,500 | 好 那以上 |
| 01:04:44,500 | 01:04:46,500 | 謝謝翁委員 |
| 01:04:46,500 | 01:04:50,399 | 其實我知道大家都有準備而來 |
| 01:04:50,399 | 01:04:52,600 | 但是這個毛髮這個東西 |
| 01:04:52,700 | 01:04:55,400 | 其實是為血液 |
| 01:04:55,400 | 01:04:59,799 | 到後來從髮絲下去 |
| 01:04:59,799 | 01:05:01,100 | 錄影帶回溯 |
| 01:05:01,100 | 01:05:03,900 | 但是那個其實是一個長期的東西 |
| 01:05:03,900 | 01:05:05,600 | 這個其實在座很多實務上 |
| 01:05:05,600 | 01:05:08,900 | 大家都是專家 |
| 01:05:08,900 | 01:05:11,900 | 可是我們現在講的是在講出院 |
| 01:05:11,900 | 01:05:13,600 | 在講的是在講出院 |
| 01:05:13,600 | 01:05:14,900 | 要把它驗出來 |
| 01:05:14,900 | 01:05:16,000 | 你說尿液 |
| 01:05:16,000 | 01:05:18,100 | 當然是大家看 |
| 01:05:18,200 | 01:05:23,799 | 最簡單的就是很平常用到的就是尿液 |
| 01:05:23,799 | 01:05:27,400 | 那確實也會講到毛髮 |
| 01:05:27,400 | 01:05:29,600 | 但是毛髮就是比較長期的 |
| 01:05:29,600 | 01:05:31,500 | 再來就是唾液 |
| 01:05:31,500 | 01:05:33,700 | 再來什麼血液也有可能 |
| 01:05:33,700 | 01:05:36,400 | 現在我這幾天在準備的時候 |
| 01:05:36,400 | 01:05:39,100 | 我還發現還有什麼漢液 |
| 01:05:39,100 | 01:05:40,100 | 漢液也有 |
| 01:05:40,100 | 01:05:41,500 | 紅膜那個就不用講了 |
| 01:05:41,500 | 01:05:42,900 | 那個大家都知道了 |
| 01:05:42,900 | 01:05:44,100 | 問題就是說 |
| 01:05:44,100 | 01:05:45,700 | 翁委員 還有高委員就是說 |
| 01:05:45,700 | 01:05:46,700 | 我們這裡 |
| 01:05:46,700 | 01:05:48,200 | 都民委要防治條例裡面 |
| 01:05:48,200 | 01:05:49,399 | 我們現在說的就是 |
| 01:05:49,399 | 01:05:52,100 | 你前面在做出院的時候 |
| 01:05:52,100 | 01:05:54,200 | 是不是要讓人家比較方便 |
| 01:05:54,200 | 01:05:56,899 | 你講的那個比較敷衍的話 |
| 01:05:56,899 | 01:05:59,299 | 司法機關到最後一定都是敷衍的 |
| 01:05:59,299 | 01:06:02,399 | 它那個程序到又變成的比較 |
| 01:06:02,399 | 01:06:04,799 | 變成到最後會比較嚴謹了 |
| 01:06:04,799 | 01:06:07,200 | 所以剛剛陳肇志委員提到那個確實 |
| 01:06:07,200 | 01:06:10,500 | 毛髮的部分都是在講回溯比較長期 |
| 01:06:10,500 | 01:06:11,899 | 你時間也會比較久 |
| 01:06:11,899 | 01:06:13,700 | 但是我們聽聽 |
| 01:06:14,700 | 01:06:15,700 | 行政部門的 |
| 01:06:15,700 | 01:06:16,700 | 來來來 |
| 01:06:16,700 | 01:06:18,200 | 那個雅玲委員 |
| 01:06:18,200 | 01:06:19,700 | 好 我想就是說 |
| 01:06:19,700 | 01:06:21,700 | 因為其實剛剛大家都講了非常多 |
| 01:06:21,700 | 01:06:23,700 | 就是我們有很多採驗的方式 |
| 01:06:23,700 | 01:06:25,200 | 但是還是要回溯到就是說 |
| 01:06:25,200 | 01:06:28,200 | 除了出院我們要追求時數 時效性 |
| 01:06:28,200 | 01:06:29,200 | 這是第一個部分 |
| 01:06:29,200 | 01:06:30,200 | 第二個就是說 |
| 01:06:30,200 | 01:06:31,700 | 其實因為我之前也有關心到 |
| 01:06:31,700 | 01:06:33,700 | 我們在唾液有一些偽陽性 |
| 01:06:33,700 | 01:06:35,700 | 好 那這個我看到陳肇志委員 |
| 01:06:35,700 | 01:06:37,200 | 翁小姐委員跟林茜琪委員 |
| 01:06:37,200 | 01:06:39,200 | 也有這樣子的一個附帶決議 |
| 01:06:39,200 | 01:06:40,700 | 就是避免說 |
| 01:06:40,700 | 01:06:42,700 | 他如果最後被證明的時候 |
| 01:06:42,700 | 01:06:44,700 | 我們應該要有一些相關的救濟制度 |
| 01:06:44,700 | 01:06:45,700 | 所以我今天在 |
| 01:06:45,700 | 01:06:47,700 | 希望大家再思考一下 |
| 01:06:47,700 | 01:06:50,700 | 就是說也可能待會主管機關可以來說明 |
| 01:06:50,700 | 01:06:52,700 | 就是說如果我們今天增加了 |
| 01:06:52,700 | 01:06:54,200 | 不管是血液 |
| 01:06:54,200 | 01:06:56,200 | 因為也有委員提出血液 |
| 01:06:56,200 | 01:06:57,700 | 毛髮 |
| 01:06:57,700 | 01:07:00,700 | 那這個過程是不是就會變成更更冗長 |
| 01:07:00,700 | 01:07:02,700 | 那更冗長的時候呢 |
| 01:07:02,700 | 01:07:06,200 | 那他這個保管車輛調扣駕照的這個時間 |
| 01:07:06,200 | 01:07:07,700 | 可能也就會更冗長 |
| 01:07:07,700 | 01:07:08,700 | 那會不會影響到人民的 |
| 01:07:08,700 | 01:07:10,200 | 如果他是一個無辜的人 |
| 01:07:10,200 | 01:07:11,700 | 他會不會影響到他的生計 |
| 01:07:11,700 | 01:07:14,200 | 我覺得這個也是大家要來考量的地方 |
| 01:07:14,200 | 01:07:16,200 | 因為以光現在脫衣來講 |
| 01:07:16,200 | 01:07:18,200 | 他們就已經要等到將近半個月 |
| 01:07:18,200 | 01:07:19,700 | 甚至一個月的時間了 |
| 01:07:19,700 | 01:07:21,700 | 那如果要再增加這個 |
| 01:07:21,700 | 01:07:23,700 | 這麼多可能要更花時間 |
| 01:07:23,700 | 01:07:25,200 | 我不太確定血液跟毛髮 |
| 01:07:25,200 | 01:07:26,700 | 是不是會更快還是怎麼樣 |
| 01:07:26,700 | 01:07:28,700 | 這個可能待會也可以請 |
| 01:07:28,700 | 01:07:30,200 | 這個相關機關再說明一下 |
| 01:07:30,200 | 01:07:32,700 | 為什麼我們在這麼多的選擇裡 |
| 01:07:32,700 | 01:07:34,700 | 我們只增加了脫衣 謝謝 |
| 01:07:36,700 | 01:07:38,700 | 法務部 來黃次長 |
| 01:07:38,700 | 01:07:40,200 | 這個比較專業的說明啦 |
| 01:07:40,200 | 01:07:42,200 | 今天大家每一個委員都有所準備而來 |
| 01:07:42,200 | 01:07:44,200 | 但是這種專業的東西 |
| 01:07:44,200 | 01:07:46,200 | 我們最後還是會比較尊重 |
| 01:07:46,200 | 01:07:48,200 | 行政部門的專業意見啦 請來 |
| 01:07:48,200 | 01:07:51,200 | 好 那 曹委 各位委員大家好 |
| 01:07:51,200 | 01:07:53,200 | 那首先要跟各位委員報告就是說 |
| 01:07:53,200 | 01:07:54,200 | 我們這條要處理的 |
| 01:07:54,200 | 01:07:57,200 | 其實是一個行政上的管理 |
| 01:07:57,200 | 01:07:59,200 | 跟行政上的預防的目的 |
| 01:07:59,200 | 01:08:04,200 | 各位委員不可以從這個犯罪偵查的角度去處罰 |
| 01:08:04,200 | 01:08:06,700 | 犯罪偵查如果他是一個鑑定的概念 |
| 01:08:06,700 | 01:08:08,200 | 剛剛委員講的完全同意 |
| 01:08:08,200 | 01:08:10,200 | 他必須要多元 他必須要確效 |
| 01:08:10,200 | 01:08:13,200 | 他必須要有一個出塞復塞 |
| 01:08:13,200 | 01:08:15,200 | 一大堆程序保障 |
| 01:08:15,200 | 01:08:16,200 | 但這條目的不是 |
| 01:08:16,200 | 01:08:19,200 | 這條目的它是行政管理跟行政預防 |
| 01:08:19,200 | 01:08:21,200 | 所以各位委員看一下他的行政條文 |
| 01:08:21,200 | 01:08:22,200 | 他的主體是誰 |
| 01:08:22,200 | 01:08:25,200 | 他行使採驗的主體是行政機關 |
| 01:08:25,200 | 01:08:29,200 | 換句話說不是我們一般的執法人員 |
| 01:08:29,200 | 01:08:31,200 | 是中華民國現在 |
| 01:08:31,200 | 01:08:36,200 | 適用的是中華民國十個行政部門的行政人員 |
| 01:08:36,200 | 01:08:37,200 | 他要負責採驗 |
| 01:08:37,200 | 01:08:41,200 | 他根本沒有受過專業的偵查訓練的人去採驗 |
| 01:08:41,200 | 01:08:44,200 | 第一個他不是偵查人員去採驗 |
| 01:08:44,200 | 01:08:45,200 | 他是行政人員去採驗 |
| 01:08:45,200 | 01:08:48,200 | 第二個他所採驗的對象是誰 |
| 01:08:48,200 | 01:08:51,200 | 犯罪偵查的對象是犯罪嫌疑人 |
| 01:08:51,200 | 01:08:54,200 | 他在訴訟法上他有一定忍受的義務 |
| 01:08:54,200 | 01:08:58,200 | 但是這個採驗的對象是中華民國 |
| 01:08:58,200 | 01:09:01,200 | 他有的公務員他有可能是 |
| 01:09:01,200 | 01:09:04,200 | 他的主管事業是基於公共安全 |
| 01:09:04,200 | 01:09:07,200 | 比如說開飛機的開捷運的開火車的 |
| 01:09:07,200 | 01:09:11,200 | 他本身是因為他的業務屬性 |
| 01:09:11,200 | 01:09:15,200 | 或者他本身可能是接觸毒品的業務從業人員 |
| 01:09:15,200 | 01:09:17,200 | 毒品的保管庫的公務員 |
| 01:09:17,200 | 01:09:19,200 | 我們的調查人員我們警察人員 |
| 01:09:19,200 | 01:09:22,200 | 所以他本身不是在犯罪 |
| 01:09:22,200 | 01:09:24,200 | 只是基於公共安全的目的 |
| 01:09:24,200 | 01:09:26,200 | 基於行政管理目的 |
| 01:09:26,200 | 01:09:29,200 | 我們要事先是基於社會防衛的角度來看 |
| 01:09:29,200 | 01:09:30,200 | 做事先的預防 |
| 01:09:30,200 | 01:09:33,200 | 所以我們對這些人我們要採取 |
| 01:09:33,200 | 01:09:37,200 | 這麼強大強度的這一個檢驗方法嗎 |
| 01:09:37,200 | 01:09:40,200 | 這個要請各位委員深思這個考慮 |
| 01:09:40,200 | 01:09:42,200 | 第二點各位委員一直在講 |
| 01:09:42,200 | 01:09:44,200 | 為什麼只有尿液為什麼只有唾液 |
| 01:09:44,200 | 01:09:48,200 | 因為他的快速性便利性 |
| 01:09:48,200 | 01:09:51,200 | 我們現在的唾液他有快篩 |
| 01:09:51,200 | 01:09:52,200 | 尿液也有快篩 |
| 01:09:52,200 | 01:09:54,200 | 所以我們一般的行政人員透過快篩 |
| 01:09:54,200 | 01:09:56,200 | 像我們COVID-19一樣兩條線 |
| 01:09:56,200 | 01:09:58,200 | 我就知道你是有陽性的 |
| 01:09:58,200 | 01:10:01,200 | 他馬上就即時就可以知道了 |
| 01:10:01,200 | 01:10:03,200 | 我們一般的行政人員他就可以知道 |
| 01:10:03,200 | 01:10:05,200 | 快篩的結果是怎麼樣 |
| 01:10:05,200 | 01:10:08,200 | 我們現在除了尿液除了唾液之外 |
| 01:10:08,200 | 01:10:10,200 | 我們並沒有毛髮的快篩 |
| 01:10:10,200 | 01:10:12,200 | 我們也沒有血液的快篩 |
| 01:10:12,200 | 01:10:14,200 | 所以血液它是必須要進入 |
| 01:10:14,200 | 01:10:18,200 | 一個侵入性的採取才有辦法可以檢驗 |
| 01:10:18,200 | 01:10:21,200 | 毛髮沒有錯 |
| 01:10:21,200 | 01:10:24,200 | 它也許不會被歸類成侵入性的措施 |
| 01:10:24,200 | 01:10:26,200 | 但是毛髮它是要去檢 |
| 01:10:26,200 | 01:10:29,200 | 它要檢對一般民眾的人格權 |
| 01:10:29,200 | 01:10:32,200 | 人格就是產生很大的影響 |
| 01:10:32,200 | 01:10:34,200 | 這個對象是用對象包括學生 |
| 01:10:34,200 | 01:10:35,200 | 包括我們的警察 |
| 01:10:35,200 | 01:10:40,200 | 包括普羅的一般的公務員 |
| 01:10:40,200 | 01:10:42,200 | 我們如果去採他的毛髮 |
| 01:10:42,200 | 01:10:45,200 | 對這個公務員的人格權 |
| 01:10:45,200 | 01:10:48,200 | 是某個程度上是沒有獲得一個足夠的保障 |
| 01:10:48,200 | 01:10:50,200 | 所以這部分我要跟委員報告 |
| 01:10:50,200 | 01:10:52,200 | 第三點我們這個辦法 |
| 01:10:52,200 | 01:10:53,200 | 其實各位去看條文的後面 |
| 01:10:53,200 | 01:10:56,200 | 如果這個公務員不遵守的話 |
| 01:10:56,200 | 01:10:59,200 | 另外還有一個附帶的效果是 |
| 01:10:59,200 | 01:11:01,200 | 可以拘束他的身體 |
| 01:11:01,200 | 01:11:02,200 | 可以想想看 |
| 01:11:02,200 | 01:11:03,200 | 如果我們要採他毛髮 |
| 01:11:03,200 | 01:11:05,200 | 他不願意 |
| 01:11:05,200 | 01:11:09,200 | 或怎麼樣我們是可以拘束他的身體的 |
| 01:11:09,200 | 01:11:11,200 | 所以我們為什麼不願意把這範圍擴這麼大 |
| 01:11:11,200 | 01:11:15,200 | 因為他會對我們的公務員 |
| 01:11:15,200 | 01:11:18,200 | 所監督的人員的人身自由 |
| 01:11:18,200 | 01:11:20,200 | 會產生連動的效果 |
| 01:11:20,200 | 01:11:21,200 | 這我會跟各位報告 |
| 01:11:21,200 | 01:11:22,200 | 第四點 |
| 01:11:22,200 | 01:11:24,200 | 剛剛翁委員有提到就是說 |
| 01:11:24,200 | 01:11:27,200 | 我用毛髮我可以知道他更久之前 |
| 01:11:27,200 | 01:11:31,200 | 他有沒有食用毒品來避免這個空窗 |
| 01:11:31,200 | 01:11:32,200 | 但我跟委員報告 |
| 01:11:32,200 | 01:11:34,200 | 這個法的立法目的是什麼 |
| 01:11:34,200 | 01:11:35,200 | 是要即時性的處理 |
| 01:11:35,200 | 01:11:38,200 | 譬如說這個人即將要去開飛機了 |
| 01:11:38,200 | 01:11:39,200 | 他即將要開捷運了 |
| 01:11:39,200 | 01:11:40,200 | 他即將開火車了 |
| 01:11:40,200 | 01:11:43,200 | 我要馬上知道他有沒有食用毒品 |
| 01:11:43,200 | 01:11:46,200 | 我要知道他現在24小時前有沒有食用毒品 |
| 01:11:46,200 | 01:11:48,200 | 他有危險性我就不准他去開車開飛機 |
| 01:11:49,200 | 01:11:52,200 | 我不需要知道他6個月前有沒有食用毒品 |
| 01:11:52,200 | 01:11:55,200 | 那是另外犯罪去偵查的問題 |
| 01:11:55,200 | 01:11:56,200 | 而不是我這個法 |
| 01:11:56,200 | 01:11:58,200 | 現實立即要處理的 |
| 01:11:58,200 | 01:12:00,200 | 我現實立即要處理就是基於公共安全 |
| 01:12:00,200 | 01:12:02,200 | 要不要馬上禁止他去開飛機 |
| 01:12:02,200 | 01:12:03,200 | 禁止他去開捷運 |
| 01:12:03,200 | 01:12:05,200 | 禁止他去開火車 |
| 01:12:05,200 | 01:12:06,200 | 這個法的目的 |
| 01:12:06,200 | 01:12:10,200 | 所以我一再跟各位委員報告就是說 |
| 01:12:10,200 | 01:12:12,200 | 這個法的立法目的不是 |
| 01:12:12,200 | 01:12:14,200 | 有啦 大家聽 |
| 01:12:14,200 | 01:12:15,200 | 翁委員聽得下啦 |
| 01:12:15,200 | 01:12:16,200 | 你這個說明很好啦 |
| 01:12:16,200 | 01:12:18,200 | 就是說我們也聽聽行政部門 |
| 01:12:18,200 | 01:12:19,200 | 像比如說 |
| 01:12:19,200 | 01:12:21,200 | 誒 市長我問你 |
| 01:12:21,200 | 01:12:24,200 | 開飛機的 誰要給他下令 |
| 01:12:24,200 | 01:12:27,200 | 開捷運的台北市捷運公司 |
| 01:12:27,200 | 01:12:29,200 | 捷運公司的誰就有 |
| 01:12:29,200 | 01:12:30,200 | 台北市政府當然可以啦 |
| 01:12:30,200 | 01:12:32,200 | 但是因為他是民 |
| 01:12:32,200 | 01:12:35,200 | 他又是公司耶 |
| 01:12:35,200 | 01:12:37,200 | 捷運公車 |
| 01:12:37,200 | 01:12:38,200 | 捷運的司機 |
| 01:12:38,200 | 01:12:40,200 | 或者公車的司機 |
| 01:12:40,200 | 01:12:43,200 | 要給他進行採驗的話 |
| 01:12:43,200 | 01:12:47,200 | 出院要比較迅速及時性 |
| 01:12:47,200 | 01:12:49,200 | 那什麼機關要給他行政部門 |
| 01:12:49,200 | 01:12:50,200 | 什麼要給他做 |
| 01:12:50,200 | 01:12:51,200 | 各位報告 |
| 01:12:51,200 | 01:12:52,200 | 因為這個法 |
| 01:12:52,200 | 01:12:54,200 | 授權訂了一個特定人員採驗辦法 |
| 01:12:54,200 | 01:12:57,200 | 採驗辦法裡面就有列出十種 |
| 01:12:57,200 | 01:12:59,200 | 目前為止大概有十個部會 |
| 01:12:59,200 | 01:13:01,200 | 剛剛委員提到就交通部 |
| 01:13:01,200 | 01:13:02,200 | OK |
| 01:13:02,200 | 01:13:04,200 | 交通部各自主管 |
| 01:13:04,200 | 01:13:05,200 | 按照他各自的屬性 |
| 01:13:05,200 | 01:13:06,200 | 他所列 他主要採取 |
| 01:13:06,200 | 01:13:07,200 | 地方機關呢 |
| 01:13:07,200 | 01:13:09,200 | 這沒有地方機關 |
| 01:13:09,200 | 01:13:10,200 | 地方機關 |
| 01:13:10,200 | 01:13:11,200 | 但是你剛才說到 |
| 01:13:11,200 | 01:13:12,200 | 你剛才說到 |
| 01:13:12,200 | 01:13:13,200 | 捷運的 |
| 01:13:13,200 | 01:13:16,200 | 為什麼當然是這種機關是台鐵 |
| 01:13:16,200 | 01:13:17,200 | 交通部 |
| 01:13:17,200 | 01:13:19,200 | 對 那各部會自己內部 |
| 01:13:19,200 | 01:13:21,200 | 怎麼去分公司各部會的事 |
| 01:13:21,200 | 01:13:22,200 | 就我們這個副表 |
| 01:13:22,200 | 01:13:24,200 | 包括內政部 國防部 教育部 |
| 01:13:24,200 | 01:13:26,200 | 法務部 經濟部 交通部 |
| 01:13:26,200 | 01:13:29,200 | 包括衛生福利部 海洋委員會 |
| 01:13:29,200 | 01:13:31,200 | 包括財政部 包括國安局 |
| 01:13:31,200 | 01:13:32,200 | OK 好 |
| 01:13:32,200 | 01:13:34,200 | 其實委員其實這樣子 |
| 01:13:34,200 | 01:13:35,200 | 我們司法法制委員會 |
| 01:13:35,200 | 01:13:37,200 | 我們最容易最好溝通的地方 |
| 01:13:37,200 | 01:13:40,200 | 他確實他這個33條是要講的就是說 |
| 01:13:40,200 | 01:13:42,200 | 我要即時性 |
| 01:13:42,200 | 01:13:44,200 | 我一定要用最快的方法 |
| 01:13:44,200 | 01:13:46,200 | 第二說你講那個毛髮 |
| 01:13:46,200 | 01:13:48,200 | 那好像一個錄影帶的倒帶一樣 |
| 01:13:48,200 | 01:13:50,200 | 我從這個人吸毒以後 |
| 01:13:50,200 | 01:13:51,200 | 他進入血液 |
| 01:13:51,200 | 01:13:53,200 | 然後血液會到 |
| 01:13:53,200 | 01:13:55,200 | 這個整個毛髮裡面的一個殘留 |
| 01:13:55,200 | 01:13:57,200 | 我要追蹤你前半年 |
| 01:13:57,200 | 01:13:59,200 | 確實那個從毛髮來用的話 |
| 01:13:59,200 | 01:14:01,200 | 那個確實是非常有用 |
| 01:14:01,200 | 01:14:03,200 | 可是他現在規範的不是這個 |
| 01:14:03,200 | 01:14:05,200 | 他規範的那個不是犯罪偵查 |
| 01:14:05,200 | 01:14:07,200 | 我們現在33條是要讓他快速 |
| 01:14:07,200 | 01:14:08,200 | 要用什麼比較快 |
| 01:14:08,200 | 01:14:11,200 | 看一看開始有那麼多脫衣在上緊 |
| 01:14:11,200 | 01:14:14,200 | 所以他們今天要就請這邊提出這個 |
| 01:14:14,200 | 01:14:16,200 | 是不是大家也可以來支持 |
| 01:14:16,200 | 01:14:18,200 | 來再聽聽你們的看法 |
| 01:14:18,200 | 01:14:19,200 | 是 因為我想這個部分 |
| 01:14:19,200 | 01:14:21,200 | 我想脫衣我是絕對支持的 |
| 01:14:21,200 | 01:14:22,200 | 那現在的話 |
| 01:14:22,200 | 01:14:24,200 | 因為有些問題我還是想釐清 |
| 01:14:24,200 | 01:14:26,200 | 第一個就是說針對這個 |
| 01:14:26,200 | 01:14:29,200 | 剛剛講的你們那個篩檢的次數 |
| 01:14:29,200 | 01:14:32,200 | 還有期間是多久會篩檢一次 |
| 01:14:32,200 | 01:14:35,200 | 然後呢你們這個對於 |
| 01:14:35,200 | 01:14:37,200 | 像是剛剛講不管是開飛機啦 |
| 01:14:37,200 | 01:14:39,200 | 或者說是這個捷運的這司機 |
| 01:14:39,200 | 01:14:41,200 | 或是特定機關的 |
| 01:14:41,200 | 01:14:43,200 | 他可能會接觸到毒品的相關的人員 |
| 01:14:43,200 | 01:14:48,200 | 他們是一開始在擔任這個職務的時候 |
| 01:14:48,200 | 01:14:49,200 | 就做篩檢 |
| 01:14:49,200 | 01:14:52,200 | 之後是每一個月 |
| 01:14:52,200 | 01:14:54,200 | 還是每一天都要做篩檢 |
| 01:14:54,200 | 01:14:56,200 | 我現在講的是說 |
| 01:14:56,200 | 01:14:59,200 | 因為不管是脫衣或者是尿衣 |
| 01:14:59,200 | 01:15:01,200 | 他基本上他大概最多就三天 |
| 01:15:01,200 | 01:15:05,200 | 三天他可能他的這個毒性就過了 |
| 01:15:05,200 | 01:15:07,200 | 我如果是一個管理人員 |
| 01:15:07,200 | 01:15:12,200 | 我其實是很容易來規避你們這個篩檢的情形 |
| 01:15:12,200 | 01:15:14,200 | 也就是說我可能要開飛機之前 |
| 01:15:14,200 | 01:15:18,200 | 我三天之前我就先不要使用這個毒品 |
| 01:15:18,200 | 01:15:20,200 | 那你就採驗不到啦 |
| 01:15:20,200 | 01:15:21,200 | 但是對毛髮來講 |
| 01:15:21,200 | 01:15:22,200 | 它有個好處就是說 |
| 01:15:22,200 | 01:15:23,200 | 它至少可以知道說 |
| 01:15:23,200 | 01:15:27,200 | 這個人是不是曾經有過這樣的一個 |
| 01:15:27,200 | 01:15:29,200 | 吸毒的一個這樣一個紀錄 |
| 01:15:29,200 | 01:15:31,200 | 那麼所以如果他在一開始 |
| 01:15:31,200 | 01:15:32,200 | 要擔任這個職務的時候 |
| 01:15:32,200 | 01:15:34,200 | 他曾經有過這樣的情形 |
| 01:15:34,200 | 01:15:36,200 | 那當然就要審慎考慮要不要 |
| 01:15:36,200 | 01:15:39,200 | 要不要聘他來當這個捷運的司機 |
| 01:15:39,200 | 01:15:44,200 | 或是要不要他可以當這個開飛機的這個駕駛 |
| 01:15:44,200 | 01:15:46,200 | 這個當飛機的這個機師 |
| 01:15:46,200 | 01:15:48,200 | 所以我的想法是說 |
| 01:15:48,200 | 01:15:51,200 | 今天我們其實多一個方法 |
| 01:15:51,200 | 01:15:54,200 | 只是給這個主管機關 |
| 01:15:54,200 | 01:15:56,200 | 給現在的機關多一個選項 |
| 01:15:56,200 | 01:15:59,200 | 而且事實上他們因為所有的辦法 |
| 01:15:59,200 | 01:16:02,200 | 都是你們自己可以去去制定的 |
| 01:16:02,200 | 01:16:04,200 | 未來就是說我可以先優先 |
| 01:16:04,200 | 01:16:06,200 | 採取用尿液的方式檢驗 |
| 01:16:06,200 | 01:16:08,200 | 用唾液的方式檢驗 |
| 01:16:08,200 | 01:16:11,200 | 但是如果說用尿液跟唾液檢驗之後 |
| 01:16:11,200 | 01:16:13,200 | 還是發現說這個人怪怪的 |
| 01:16:13,200 | 01:16:16,200 | 其實有的時候看他好像走路不太穩 |
| 01:16:16,200 | 01:16:18,200 | 或是說他精神有點恍惚 |
| 01:16:18,200 | 01:16:21,200 | 這時候其實就可以用毛髮來檢測 |
| 01:16:21,200 | 01:16:24,200 | 因為毛髮他基本上可以從最短的時間 |
| 01:16:24,200 | 01:16:25,200 | 然後到最長的時間 |
| 01:16:25,200 | 01:16:27,200 | 他大概都可以檢測得出來 |
| 01:16:27,200 | 01:16:28,200 | 所以我不太了解就是說 |
| 01:16:28,200 | 01:16:30,200 | 今天我們其實好意就是 |
| 01:16:30,200 | 01:16:32,200 | 希望給主管機關多一個 |
| 01:16:32,200 | 01:16:34,200 | 可以去檢查的方法 |
| 01:16:34,200 | 01:16:38,200 | 那至於怎麼樣的去運用 |
| 01:16:38,200 | 01:16:39,200 | 你們這個檢驗的手段 |
| 01:16:39,200 | 01:16:41,200 | 就是你們自己可以決定的 |
| 01:16:41,200 | 01:16:43,200 | 但是我不太知道為什麼 |
| 01:16:43,200 | 01:16:45,200 | 法務部一直很排斥把毛髮 |
| 01:16:45,200 | 01:16:50,200 | 然後真定為這個檢驗的手段之一 |
| 01:16:51,200 | 01:16:53,200 | 可以先回答就是你們檢驗的次數 |
| 01:16:53,200 | 01:16:55,200 | 還有平常的檢驗的這個期間 |
| 01:17:00,200 | 01:17:02,200 | 次長再來回應一下 |
| 01:17:02,200 | 01:17:06,200 | 三十三條都總共23案 |
| 01:17:06,200 | 01:17:09,200 | 3案有提到毛髮 |
| 01:17:09,200 | 01:17:12,200 | 那當然翁委員提到那個部分 |
| 01:17:12,200 | 01:17:15,200 | 那確實是屬於犯罪偵查 |
| 01:17:15,200 | 01:17:16,200 | 次長講的就是說 |
| 01:17:16,200 | 01:17:19,200 | 這個出院的時候是要這種及時性的 |
| 01:17:19,200 | 01:17:22,200 | 所以我多一個拖曳進來就可以 |
| 01:17:22,200 | 01:17:24,200 | 那問題是說 |
| 01:17:24,200 | 01:17:26,200 | 翁委員的講法似乎是在講說 |
| 01:17:26,200 | 01:17:28,200 | 你毒品危害防治條例裡面 |
| 01:17:28,200 | 01:17:31,200 | 那主管機關我被發現的時候 |
| 01:17:32,200 | 01:17:34,200 | 我用其他的方式來 |
| 01:17:34,200 | 01:17:37,200 | 我沒一定只單純要處理及時性的 |
| 01:17:37,200 | 01:17:39,200 | 我可能也會認為說 |
| 01:17:39,200 | 01:17:41,200 | 我所受我監督的人 |
| 01:17:41,200 | 01:17:43,200 | 他到底是不是過去 |
| 01:17:43,200 | 01:17:45,200 | 他如果也有私用毒品的話 |
| 01:17:45,200 | 01:17:46,200 | 他確實啊 |
| 01:17:46,200 | 01:17:52,200 | 你就算是要針對這一些駕駛人員 |
| 01:17:52,200 | 01:17:54,200 | 不管是航空捷運 |
| 01:17:54,200 | 01:17:57,200 | 或者說反正就是動力的部分 |
| 01:17:57,200 | 01:17:59,200 | 這個人來篩出來 |
| 01:17:59,200 | 01:18:02,200 | 他也有這樣用毒品的一個習慣的話 |
| 01:18:02,200 | 01:18:04,200 | 這未必屬於犯罪偵查 |
| 01:18:04,200 | 01:18:07,200 | 他讓我篩出來以後 |
| 01:18:07,200 | 01:18:09,200 | 我覺得這個人都不適宜 |
| 01:18:09,200 | 01:18:12,200 | 來當這一些駕駛人員 |
| 01:18:12,200 | 01:18:13,200 | 問題在這個地方 |
| 01:18:13,200 | 01:18:15,200 | 那請聽起來有道理 |
| 01:18:15,200 | 01:18:17,200 | 那請次長再回應一下 |
| 01:18:17,200 | 01:18:19,200 | 好 更委員報告 |
| 01:18:19,200 | 01:18:22,200 | 那委員應該提到這個篩檢的頻度頻率的問題 |
| 01:18:22,200 | 01:18:24,200 | 其實我們的這個法通過 |
| 01:18:24,200 | 01:18:26,200 | 這個法通過這個法的授權辦法 |
| 01:18:26,200 | 01:18:28,200 | 其實有訂相關的篩檢 |
| 01:18:28,200 | 01:18:30,200 | 包括定期的篩檢 |
| 01:18:30,200 | 01:18:32,200 | 跟不定期的篩檢 |
| 01:18:32,200 | 01:18:35,200 | 那在授權各目的主管機關 |
| 01:18:35,200 | 01:18:37,200 | 我剛講有十個目的主管機關 |
| 01:18:37,200 | 01:18:39,200 | 各自在訂怎麼樣 |
| 01:18:39,200 | 01:18:42,200 | 更細部的一個這個事務性的篩檢方法 |
| 01:18:42,200 | 01:18:44,200 | 那這個辦法裡面除了定期篩檢 |
| 01:18:44,200 | 01:18:45,200 | 就還有不定期的篩檢 |
| 01:18:45,200 | 01:18:46,200 | 什麼叫不定期篩檢 |
| 01:18:46,200 | 01:18:48,200 | 包括受僱篩檢 |
| 01:18:48,200 | 01:18:49,200 | 包括懷疑檢驗 |
| 01:18:49,200 | 01:18:50,200 | 意外檢驗 |
| 01:18:50,200 | 01:18:52,200 | 隨機檢驗 |
| 01:18:52,200 | 01:18:53,200 | 很多 |
| 01:18:53,200 | 01:18:54,200 | 換句話就說主管機關 |
| 01:18:54,200 | 01:18:57,200 | 他可以各自基於各自的行政目的 |
| 01:18:57,200 | 01:19:01,200 | 他可以做相關的頻度的這個篩檢 |
| 01:19:01,200 | 01:19:02,200 | 所以剛委員所提到的 |
| 01:19:02,200 | 01:19:03,200 | 除了定期之外 |
| 01:19:03,200 | 01:19:04,200 | 還有不定期 |
| 01:19:04,200 | 01:19:05,200 | 還有各種狀況 |
| 01:19:05,200 | 01:19:06,200 | 他都可以篩檢 |
| 01:19:06,200 | 01:19:07,200 | 主管機關都可以篩檢 |
| 01:19:07,200 | 01:19:08,200 | 舉個例子 |
| 01:19:08,200 | 01:19:10,200 | 譬如說以交通部或內政部 |
| 01:19:10,200 | 01:19:12,200 | 他們現在的辦法是怎麼訂的 |
| 01:19:12,200 | 01:19:13,200 | 因為我們其實沒有看到 |
| 01:19:13,200 | 01:19:18,200 | 這個更細緻的檢驗的作業辦法 |
| 01:19:18,200 | 01:19:21,200 | 他們是每一個禮拜到檢查一次 |
| 01:19:21,200 | 01:19:22,200 | 還是他們是上飛機 |
| 01:19:22,200 | 01:19:25,200 | 還是就是要開始執行他們工作之前 |
| 01:19:25,200 | 01:19:26,200 | 就要檢驗 |
| 01:19:26,200 | 01:19:28,200 | 因為我是認為說 |
| 01:19:28,200 | 01:19:31,200 | 這個剛剛其實次長這邊說法 |
| 01:19:31,200 | 01:19:33,200 | 有些地方是我不太能接受的 |
| 01:19:33,200 | 01:19:36,200 | 你說剪頭髮就是一種強制 |
| 01:19:36,200 | 01:19:39,200 | 會侵害到個人的尊嚴 |
| 01:19:39,200 | 01:19:43,200 | 會有侵害人格權之虞 |
| 01:19:43,200 | 01:19:45,200 | 但你說如果說今天去尿檢 |
| 01:19:45,200 | 01:19:46,200 | 也是一樣 |
| 01:19:46,200 | 01:19:48,200 | 如果當事人他就不願意尿檢 |
| 01:19:48,200 | 01:19:50,200 | 或他不願意把他嘴巴張開 |
| 01:19:50,200 | 01:19:51,200 | 去進行唾液的篩檢 |
| 01:19:51,200 | 01:19:54,200 | 這同樣是侵害個人的人格權 |
| 01:19:54,200 | 01:19:56,200 | 所以其實如果說對我一個 |
| 01:19:56,200 | 01:19:59,200 | 假設我今天我是相關的工作人員 |
| 01:19:59,200 | 01:20:00,200 | 我今天要被檢視 |
| 01:20:00,200 | 01:20:01,200 | 我寧可就說 |
| 01:20:01,200 | 01:20:03,200 | 你就幫我反正女生頭髮長 |
| 01:20:03,200 | 01:20:04,200 | 我就剪個幾根 |
| 01:20:04,200 | 01:20:06,200 | 你不可能剪一搓吧 |
| 01:20:06,200 | 01:20:07,200 | 對不對 |
| 01:20:07,200 | 01:20:08,200 | 他就大概剪個幾根頭髮 |
| 01:20:08,200 | 01:20:10,200 | 就可以去檢驗了 |
| 01:20:10,200 | 01:20:11,200 | 對 就這個部分來講 |
| 01:20:11,200 | 01:20:13,200 | 其實剛剛部長的說法 |
| 01:20:13,200 | 01:20:15,200 | 其實不太能說服我 |
| 01:20:15,200 | 01:20:16,200 | 抱歉我想補充一下 |
| 01:20:16,200 | 01:20:18,200 | 就是說因為這個裡面 |
| 01:20:18,200 | 01:20:20,200 | 還有包含到學校的學生 |
| 01:20:20,200 | 01:20:21,200 | 對嗎 |
| 01:20:21,200 | 01:20:23,200 | 我剛剛聽起來是這樣子 |
| 01:20:23,200 | 01:20:24,200 | 那我覺得 |
| 01:20:25,200 | 01:20:26,200 | 是有學生嗎 |
| 01:20:26,200 | 01:20:29,200 | 因為主管機關所監督之特定人員 |
| 01:20:29,200 | 01:20:30,200 | 這個有包含到學生嗎 |
| 01:20:30,200 | 01:20:31,200 | 對不對 |
| 01:20:31,200 | 01:20:33,200 | 對啊 因為有學生 |
| 01:20:33,200 | 01:20:34,200 | 那我覺得這東西 |
| 01:20:34,200 | 01:20:36,200 | 如果去增加模仿的話 |
| 01:20:36,200 | 01:20:37,200 | 我自己會擔心 |
| 01:20:37,200 | 01:20:38,200 | 這個是現場在執行面 |
| 01:20:38,200 | 01:20:41,200 | 會造成老師的困難 |
| 01:20:41,200 | 01:20:43,200 | 因為這個是過去 |
| 01:20:43,200 | 01:20:45,200 | 我們之所以法禁的時候 |
| 01:20:45,200 | 01:20:46,200 | 有很多的人 |
| 01:20:46,200 | 01:20:48,200 | 其實都會可能都有那個經驗 |
| 01:20:48,200 | 01:20:50,200 | 那所以大家其實對於自己的毛髮 |
| 01:20:50,200 | 01:20:52,200 | 屬於自己個人的形象 |
| 01:20:52,200 | 01:20:53,200 | 在現在的年輕世代 |
| 01:20:53,200 | 01:20:55,200 | 是更根深蒂固的 |
| 01:20:55,200 | 01:20:56,200 | 所以我覺得 |
| 01:20:56,200 | 01:20:57,200 | 如果今天要拓展這件事情的話 |
| 01:20:57,200 | 01:20:59,200 | 等於我們開放了這樣子的授權 |
| 01:20:59,200 | 01:21:01,200 | 我擔心這會造成 |
| 01:21:01,200 | 01:21:03,200 | 現場的青師生的衝突 |
| 01:21:03,200 | 01:21:04,200 | 會更加劇烈 |
| 01:21:04,200 | 01:21:06,200 | 所以這個意見 |
| 01:21:06,200 | 01:21:07,200 | 我也想要聽聽看 |
| 01:21:07,200 | 01:21:08,200 | 這個法務部的意見 |
| 01:21:08,200 | 01:21:10,200 | 是不是有考量到這個部分 |
| 01:21:10,200 | 01:21:11,200 | 謝謝 |
| 01:21:13,200 | 01:21:14,200 | 好 那各位報告 |
| 01:21:14,200 | 01:21:16,200 | 無論是採取尿疫 |
| 01:21:16,200 | 01:21:18,200 | 唾液或毛髮或血液 |
| 01:21:18,200 | 01:21:20,200 | 當然對人身自由或人格權 |
| 01:21:20,200 | 01:21:21,200 | 都會產生干預 |
| 01:21:21,200 | 01:21:22,200 | 這是無庸置疑 |
| 01:21:22,200 | 01:21:23,200 | 所以我們必須要法律規定 |
| 01:21:23,200 | 01:21:24,200 | 所以我們今天必須要 |
| 01:21:24,200 | 01:21:25,200 | 有法律的授權 |
| 01:21:25,200 | 01:21:26,200 | 我們才可以做 |
| 01:21:26,200 | 01:21:29,200 | 只是說各種法律的干預 |
| 01:21:29,200 | 01:21:30,200 | 人身自由的干預 |
| 01:21:30,200 | 01:21:31,200 | 人格權的干預 |
| 01:21:31,200 | 01:21:32,200 | 它有不同的強度 |
| 01:21:32,200 | 01:21:34,200 | 行政上目的的強度 |
| 01:21:34,200 | 01:21:35,200 | 還是犯罪偵查的強度 |
| 01:21:35,200 | 01:21:37,200 | 我們今天就行政目的的強度 |
| 01:21:37,200 | 01:21:39,200 | 我們開放尿疫跟唾液 |
| 01:21:39,200 | 01:21:41,200 | 我覺得這個對人身 |
| 01:21:41,200 | 01:21:43,200 | 因為就法律授權 |
| 01:21:43,200 | 01:21:44,200 | 我們就允許 |
| 01:21:44,200 | 01:21:45,200 | 但是對毛髮 |
| 01:21:45,200 | 01:21:46,200 | 各位委員 |
| 01:21:46,200 | 01:21:49,200 | 我們毛髮要做鑑定 |
| 01:21:49,200 | 01:21:51,200 | 我們刑訴訴訟法裡面 |
| 01:21:51,200 | 01:21:52,200 | 205條之二 |
| 01:21:52,200 | 01:21:53,200 | 它必須要是逮捕的 |
| 01:21:53,200 | 01:21:55,200 | 現行犯 司法警察 |
| 01:21:55,200 | 01:21:57,200 | 才可以採它的毛髮 |
| 01:21:58,200 | 01:21:59,200 | 那你如果說是 |
| 01:21:59,200 | 01:22:00,200 | 要血液的話 |
| 01:22:00,200 | 01:22:01,200 | 要205之一 |
| 01:22:01,200 | 01:22:03,200 | 要檢察官的令狀許可 |
| 01:22:03,200 | 01:22:04,200 | 法官的令狀許可 |
| 01:22:04,200 | 01:22:07,200 | 才可以進入採毛髮採血液 |
| 01:22:07,200 | 01:22:09,200 | 所以它是不同的人格權 |
| 01:22:09,200 | 01:22:11,200 | 或這個人身自由權的干預 |
| 01:22:11,200 | 01:22:14,200 | 它要法律做不同的保障 |
| 01:22:14,200 | 01:22:16,200 | 所以我們今天為什麼要 |
| 01:22:16,200 | 01:22:17,200 | 進入大院同意 |
| 01:22:17,200 | 01:22:19,200 | 它的確會造成人格的侵害 |
| 01:22:19,200 | 01:22:20,200 | 沒有錯 |
| 01:22:20,200 | 01:22:21,200 | 即使是尿疫 即使是石頭疫 |
| 01:22:21,200 | 01:22:22,200 | 都會啊 |
| 01:22:22,200 | 01:22:24,200 | 所以才需要法律來規範 |
| 01:22:24,200 | 01:22:26,200 | 這跟委員報告 |
| 01:22:26,200 | 01:22:29,200 | 另外剛剛這個委員提到 |
| 01:22:29,200 | 01:22:32,200 | 的確教育部剛剛所管理的範圍 |
| 01:22:32,200 | 01:22:33,200 | 它的確包括學生 |
| 01:22:33,200 | 01:22:35,200 | 它最主要大宗都是學生 |
| 01:22:35,200 | 01:22:37,200 | 大宗都是學生 |
| 01:22:37,200 | 01:22:40,200 | 那所以說我跟委員報告 |
| 01:22:40,200 | 01:22:41,200 | 就是說如果說 |
| 01:22:41,200 | 01:22:43,200 | 委員提到說 |
| 01:22:43,200 | 01:22:44,200 | 可以毛髮多一個選擇 |
| 01:22:44,200 | 01:22:45,200 | 沒什麼不好 |
| 01:22:45,200 | 01:22:48,200 | 除了我剛剛講的人格權的 |
| 01:22:48,200 | 01:22:49,200 | 這個的這個一例之外 |
| 01:22:49,200 | 01:22:50,200 | 另外就是說 |
| 01:22:50,200 | 01:22:52,200 | 如果可以讓學生選擇的話 |
| 01:22:52,200 | 01:22:53,200 | 各位就是說 |
| 01:22:53,200 | 01:22:55,200 | 這毛髮的鑑定結果 |
| 01:22:55,200 | 01:22:56,200 | 也許要半個月 |
| 01:22:56,200 | 01:22:59,200 | 一個月後才會結果出來 |
| 01:22:59,200 | 01:23:01,200 | 那我們當下要不要認定 |
| 01:23:01,200 | 01:23:02,200 | 它有沒有食用毒品 |
| 01:23:02,200 | 01:23:03,200 | 我其實不知道 |
| 01:23:03,200 | 01:23:05,200 | 我其實不知道 |
| 01:23:05,200 | 01:23:06,200 | 我必須要等一個月後 |
| 01:23:06,200 | 01:23:07,200 | 等半個月後 |
| 01:23:07,200 | 01:23:08,200 | 甚至等兩個月後 |
| 01:23:08,200 | 01:23:09,200 | 我甚至等兩個月後 |
| 01:23:09,200 | 01:23:10,200 | 才知道它當 |
| 01:23:10,200 | 01:23:11,200 | 它到底有沒有食用毒品 |
| 01:23:11,200 | 01:23:13,200 | 它就會喪失這個法定的 |
| 01:23:13,200 | 01:23:15,200 | 立法的目的 |
| 01:23:15,200 | 01:23:17,200 | 是不好意思 |
| 01:23:17,200 | 01:23:18,200 | 昭偉好 |
| 01:23:18,200 | 01:23:20,200 | 我想講的就是 |
| 01:23:20,200 | 01:23:21,200 | 其實我們現在講的 |
| 01:23:21,200 | 01:23:23,200 | 所有的這檢驗手段 |
| 01:23:23,200 | 01:23:25,200 | 如果說當事人 |
| 01:23:25,200 | 01:23:26,200 | 他拒絕接受檢驗 |
| 01:23:26,200 | 01:23:28,200 | 那肯定你們就會進入到 |
| 01:23:28,200 | 01:23:30,200 | 下一個階段 |
| 01:23:30,200 | 01:23:31,200 | 就是要去拘提 |
| 01:23:31,200 | 01:23:34,200 | 要去強制他的人生自由 |
| 01:23:34,200 | 01:23:35,200 | 強制要去驗尿 |
| 01:23:35,200 | 01:23:37,200 | 強制他嘴巴要張開 |
| 01:23:37,200 | 01:23:39,200 | 讓他接受這個唾液的篩檢 |
| 01:23:39,200 | 01:23:41,200 | 那麼我覺得剛剛這個 |
| 01:23:41,200 | 01:23:43,200 | 次長講的 |
| 01:23:43,200 | 01:23:44,200 | 就是對於這個人格權 |
| 01:23:44,200 | 01:23:45,200 | 或是人生自由的 |
| 01:23:45,200 | 01:23:47,200 | 拘束的強度來講 |
| 01:23:47,200 | 01:23:48,200 | 我反而是跟次長 |
| 01:23:48,200 | 01:23:50,200 | 有不同的見解 |
| 01:23:50,200 | 01:23:52,200 | 事實上你說頭髮 |
| 01:23:52,200 | 01:23:54,200 | 這個把它抱起來 |
| 01:23:54,200 | 01:23:55,200 | 稍微剪一下頭髮 |
| 01:23:55,200 | 01:23:56,200 | 假設他不願意的話 |
| 01:23:56,200 | 01:23:57,200 | 他不願意就是 |
| 01:23:57,200 | 01:23:59,200 | 用頭髮去篩檢的話 |
| 01:23:59,200 | 01:24:00,200 | 那基本上我覺得 |
| 01:24:00,200 | 01:24:01,200 | 那個侵入性 |
| 01:24:01,200 | 01:24:03,200 | 反而不是很嚴重 |
| 01:24:03,200 | 01:24:04,200 | 如果說今天是 |
| 01:24:04,200 | 01:24:06,200 | 拒絕尿檢的話 |
| 01:24:06,200 | 01:24:08,200 | 那我可以請次長說明一下 |
| 01:24:08,200 | 01:24:09,200 | 如果拒絕尿檢 |
| 01:24:09,200 | 01:24:11,200 | 你們是怎麼樣的去檢驗法 |
| 01:24:11,200 | 01:24:12,200 | 更何況就是說 |
| 01:24:12,200 | 01:24:14,200 | 現在毛髮的檢驗 |
| 01:24:14,200 | 01:24:16,200 | 他並不是像你講的 |
| 01:24:16,200 | 01:24:18,200 | 要這麼長的時間 |
| 01:24:18,200 | 01:24:19,200 | 尿液的一般的篩檢 |
| 01:24:19,200 | 01:24:21,200 | 是當場就可以看得到的嗎 |
| 01:24:21,200 | 01:24:23,200 | 應該也不是吧 |
| 01:24:23,200 | 01:24:25,200 | 應該也是要送回實驗室 |
| 01:24:25,200 | 01:24:26,200 | 可能幾天之後 |
| 01:24:26,200 | 01:24:27,200 | 也許才看得到 |
| 01:24:27,200 | 01:24:30,200 | 其實毛髮的情況也是一樣 |
| 01:24:30,200 | 01:24:31,200 | 今天如果說 |
| 01:24:31,200 | 01:24:33,200 | 我們法律訂立下去 |
| 01:24:33,200 | 01:24:34,200 | 然後未來可以 |
| 01:24:34,200 | 01:24:36,200 | 有多一個檢測的手段 |
| 01:24:36,200 | 01:24:38,200 | 那我想相關的實驗室 |
| 01:24:38,200 | 01:24:40,200 | 他們量能各方面都會增加 |
| 01:24:40,200 | 01:24:41,200 | 甚至法務部 |
| 01:24:41,200 | 01:24:42,200 | 或是調查局 |
| 01:24:42,200 | 01:24:43,200 | 刑事警察局 |
| 01:24:43,200 | 01:24:44,200 | 你們認為說 |
| 01:24:44,200 | 01:24:46,200 | 應該要提高量能的話 |
| 01:24:46,200 | 01:24:48,200 | 或者是相關檢驗設備 |
| 01:24:48,200 | 01:24:50,200 | 本行在這邊都支持 |
| 01:24:50,200 | 01:24:52,200 | 我想講的就是說 |
| 01:24:52,200 | 01:24:54,200 | 因為今天這是一個行政管理 |
| 01:24:54,200 | 01:24:56,200 | 就是因為行政管理 |
| 01:24:56,200 | 01:24:59,200 | 其實對於就是受檢查的 |
| 01:24:59,200 | 01:25:01,200 | 相關的不管是公務員 |
| 01:25:01,200 | 01:25:05,200 | 還有一般的員工等等的 |
| 01:25:05,200 | 01:25:07,200 | 那麼其實就讓他們覺得說 |
| 01:25:07,200 | 01:25:08,200 | 他們怎麼樣的檢查 |
| 01:25:08,200 | 01:25:10,200 | 是覺得很方便 |
| 01:25:10,200 | 01:25:12,200 | 而且很快速 |
| 01:25:12,200 | 01:25:13,200 | 至於就是說你們檢查 |
| 01:25:13,200 | 01:25:14,200 | 是時間的長短 |
| 01:25:14,200 | 01:25:16,200 | 這是回到主管機關的事情 |
| 01:25:16,200 | 01:25:17,200 | 可是如果說 |
| 01:25:17,200 | 01:25:19,200 | 因為一定要去驗尿 |
| 01:25:19,200 | 01:25:21,200 | 然後要去做唾液 |
| 01:25:21,200 | 01:25:23,200 | 唾液當然它比較快速 |
| 01:25:23,200 | 01:25:26,200 | 可是它的偽陽性很高 |
| 01:25:26,200 | 01:25:27,200 | 它的偽陽性很高 |
| 01:25:27,200 | 01:25:30,200 | 這也跟這個唾液篩檢的 |
| 01:25:30,200 | 01:25:33,200 | 它的篩檢劑的品質的高低 |
| 01:25:33,200 | 01:25:36,200 | 甚至跟價格的高低都有關係 |
| 01:25:36,200 | 01:25:37,200 | 對 |
| 01:25:37,200 | 01:25:39,200 | 因此就是說今天其實 |
| 01:25:39,200 | 01:25:41,200 | 多一個毛法 |
| 01:25:41,200 | 01:25:43,200 | 我們明定在法律裡面 |
| 01:25:43,200 | 01:25:46,200 | 然後讓主管機關多一項選擇 |
| 01:25:46,200 | 01:25:49,200 | 我認為其實是對於防治 |
| 01:25:49,200 | 01:25:50,200 | 毒品危害 |
| 01:25:50,200 | 01:25:53,200 | 其實有很大的幫忙的 |
| 01:25:53,200 | 01:25:54,200 | 我講的其實 |
| 01:25:54,200 | 01:25:55,200 | 現在也不只是毛法 |
| 01:25:55,200 | 01:25:57,200 | 剛剛周圍也有說嘛 |
| 01:25:57,200 | 01:25:59,200 | 連什麼漢裔 |
| 01:25:59,200 | 01:26:01,200 | 還有 藝人啦 紅魔啦 都有啦 |
| 01:26:01,200 | 01:26:04,200 | 我懂翁委員的 翁召偉的意思啦 |
| 01:26:04,200 | 01:26:05,200 | 我不想插嘴啦 |
| 01:26:05,200 | 01:26:07,200 | 但是我再提醒一下就是說 |
| 01:26:07,200 | 01:26:09,200 | 其實它這個爭點在什麼地方呢 |
| 01:26:09,200 | 01:26:11,200 | 爭點就是說 |
| 01:26:11,200 | 01:26:16,200 | 我們要不要授權到連毛法都可以啦 |
| 01:26:16,200 | 01:26:22,200 | 你真的會跟人家到連毛法的檢測 |
| 01:26:22,200 | 01:26:24,200 | 我懂翁召偉的意思 |
| 01:26:24,200 | 01:26:25,200 | 你的意思就是說 |
| 01:26:25,200 | 01:26:26,200 | 我讓你行政部門 |
| 01:26:26,200 | 01:26:28,200 | 我給你一個武器啊 |
| 01:26:28,200 | 01:26:29,200 | 你的問題在這個地方 |
| 01:26:29,200 | 01:26:31,200 | 可是這個我很擔心 |
| 01:26:31,200 | 01:26:33,200 | 你去看看我們喔 |
| 01:26:33,200 | 01:26:34,200 | 光在九測就好了 |
| 01:26:34,200 | 01:26:36,200 | 我們通過了法令喔 |
| 01:26:36,200 | 01:26:39,200 | 我們這樣對基層員警 |
| 01:26:39,200 | 01:26:40,200 | 比較不好意思啦 |
| 01:26:40,200 | 01:26:41,200 | 但是就有少數 |
| 01:26:41,200 | 01:26:43,200 | 你廠長你看 |
| 01:26:43,200 | 01:26:45,200 | 攔檢 九測攔檢喔 |
| 01:26:45,200 | 01:26:47,200 | 他就無差別每一步給你攔下來 |
| 01:26:47,200 | 01:26:48,200 | 你知道嗎 |
| 01:26:48,200 | 01:26:49,200 | 你很想跟他說 |
| 01:26:49,200 | 01:26:51,200 | 你是在你比較有這麼大的權限 |
| 01:26:51,200 | 01:26:53,200 | 你怎麼可以整條路的車子 |
| 01:26:53,200 | 01:26:54,200 | 全部攔下來 |
| 01:26:54,200 | 01:26:55,200 | 大家塞成一團 |
| 01:26:55,200 | 01:26:57,200 | 但也不是說我警察有權限 |
| 01:26:57,200 | 01:26:58,200 | 我們授予他權限啊 |
| 01:26:58,200 | 01:26:59,200 | 我要九測啊 |
| 01:26:59,200 | 01:27:00,200 | 有的人就是 |
| 01:27:00,200 | 01:27:01,200 | 嘿 我就是警察 |
| 01:27:01,200 | 01:27:03,200 | 每次我都給他炸下來 |
| 01:27:03,200 | 01:27:05,200 | 他沒有那種權限你知道嗎 |
| 01:27:05,200 | 01:27:07,200 | 你要有一個合理性啊 |
| 01:27:07,200 | 01:27:08,200 | 所以我被 |
| 01:27:08,200 | 01:27:10,200 | 我以前在當台北市議員的時候 |
| 01:27:10,200 | 01:27:11,200 | 我都問他 |
| 01:27:11,200 | 01:27:14,200 | 你憑什麼給我炸下來 |
| 01:27:14,200 | 01:27:16,200 | 我又怕人家說我當議員 |
| 01:27:16,200 | 01:27:19,200 | 好像我在耍那種威風 |
| 01:27:19,200 | 01:27:20,200 | 其實我不是 |
| 01:27:20,200 | 01:27:22,200 | 我就說你憑什麼把我攔下來 |
| 01:27:22,200 | 01:27:23,200 | 他說法律的規定 |
| 01:27:23,200 | 01:27:24,200 | 我就問他說 |
| 01:27:24,200 | 01:27:26,200 | 你麻煩告訴我法律規定在哪裡 |
| 01:27:26,200 | 01:27:27,200 | 不然你要怎麼辦 |
| 01:27:27,200 | 01:27:29,200 | 很麻煩你知道嗎 |
| 01:27:29,200 | 01:27:32,200 | 那就是說他就是 |
| 01:27:33,200 | 01:27:35,200 | 沒有節制性的 |
| 01:27:35,200 | 01:27:37,200 | 其實警察是不能這樣子的 |
| 01:27:37,200 | 01:27:38,200 | 就是說你要攔檢 |
| 01:27:38,200 | 01:27:40,200 | 你要看看你到底 |
| 01:27:40,200 | 01:27:41,200 | 有沒有什麼 |
| 01:27:41,200 | 01:27:43,200 | 我有蛇形沒有啦 |
| 01:27:43,200 | 01:27:46,200 | 或是我我剛問炸下來的時候 |
| 01:27:46,200 | 01:27:48,200 | 我是不是喝酒有酒味 |
| 01:27:48,200 | 01:27:49,200 | 那不是 |
| 01:27:49,200 | 01:27:50,200 | 每一步全部給你攔 |
| 01:27:50,200 | 01:27:51,200 | 就看他心情 |
| 01:27:51,200 | 01:27:52,200 | 這也不對 |
| 01:27:52,200 | 01:27:53,200 | 那我擔心的是說 |
| 01:27:53,200 | 01:27:54,200 | 你這個提案出來 |
| 01:27:54,200 | 01:27:56,200 | 因為他這一條33條要處理的 |
| 01:27:56,200 | 01:27:57,200 | 院板的部分 |
| 01:27:57,200 | 01:27:59,200 | 為什麼20幾個條 |
| 01:27:59,200 | 01:28:01,200 | 版本只有3個有毛髮的部分 |
| 01:28:01,200 | 01:28:03,200 | 我相信大家也有考慮到 |
| 01:28:03,200 | 01:28:06,200 | 要不要授權到你說毛髮的部分 |
| 01:28:06,200 | 01:28:08,200 | 那真的是屬於犯罪偵查 |
| 01:28:08,200 | 01:28:10,200 | 一般你說行政部門 |
| 01:28:10,200 | 01:28:13,200 | 要找人幫你找一支頭髮 |
| 01:28:13,200 | 01:28:15,200 | 這麼簡單開什麼玩笑 |
| 01:28:15,200 | 01:28:17,200 | 他還可以來一支頭髮 |
| 01:28:17,200 | 01:28:19,200 | 會不會說你可能有吸毒 |
| 01:28:19,200 | 01:28:21,200 | 你放在那邊噴的噴的 |
| 01:28:21,200 | 01:28:22,200 | 沒辦法你知道嗎 |
| 01:28:22,200 | 01:28:23,200 | 我自己扔給他 |
| 01:28:23,200 | 01:28:24,200 | 是啦我意思是說 |
| 01:28:24,200 | 01:28:26,200 | 當事人願意沒話講 |
| 01:28:26,200 | 01:28:27,200 | 我意思就是說 |
| 01:28:27,200 | 01:28:30,200 | 這個強度有涉及到人生的 |
| 01:28:30,200 | 01:28:31,200 | 一個侵害的部分 |
| 01:28:31,200 | 01:28:32,200 | 也請考慮一下 |
| 01:28:32,200 | 01:28:34,200 | 但提供這個見解很好 |
| 01:28:34,200 | 01:28:39,200 | 我這一次我是對黃次長的 |
| 01:28:39,200 | 01:28:41,200 | 他的見解我不一定每次 |
| 01:28:41,200 | 01:28:43,200 | 都會遵照他的意思 |
| 01:28:43,200 | 01:28:45,200 | 我就覺得他這一次講的是 |
| 01:28:45,200 | 01:28:46,200 | 很合理 |
| 01:28:46,200 | 01:28:48,200 | 我們是不是這個採院版 |
| 01:28:48,200 | 01:28:49,200 | 好不 |
| 01:28:49,200 | 01:28:50,200 | 我先再補充一些 |
| 01:28:50,200 | 01:28:51,200 | 沒關係你盡量 |
| 01:28:51,200 | 01:28:52,200 | 我盡量給你表達你的意見 |
| 01:28:52,200 | 01:28:55,200 | 就是說我想要再聽聽看教育部 |
| 01:28:55,200 | 01:28:57,200 | 因為今天教育部也有來 |
| 01:28:57,200 | 01:28:58,200 | 就是因為我剛剛擔心的就是說 |
| 01:28:58,200 | 01:29:00,200 | 這個如果我們授權這件事情的話 |
| 01:29:00,200 | 01:29:03,200 | 會不會在現場上面造成什麼樣子的問題 |
| 01:29:03,200 | 01:29:05,200 | 是不是可以請教育部 |
| 01:29:09,200 | 01:29:11,200 | 來要不要發揮一下 |
| 01:29:11,200 | 01:29:13,200 | 專門委員今天有來 |
| 01:29:13,200 | 01:29:14,200 | 但是我怕你不知道 |
| 01:29:14,200 | 01:29:16,200 | 這是不是你的專長 |
| 01:29:16,200 | 01:29:19,200 | 何淑瑜有來嗎 |
| 01:29:19,200 | 01:29:20,200 | 有來的嗎 |
| 01:29:20,200 | 01:29:22,200 | 那你們有來的人不在 |
| 01:29:23,200 | 01:29:25,200 | 來算了給我投算你 |
| 01:29:27,200 | 01:29:28,200 | 那是考機法 |
| 01:29:28,200 | 01:29:29,200 | 是的是的是的 |
| 01:29:29,200 | 01:29:33,200 | 所以針對這個教育部的 |
| 01:29:33,200 | 01:29:35,200 | 你這他們也不一定有專人 |
| 01:29:35,200 | 01:29:38,200 | 在這裡有部他們也不一定說得出來 |
| 01:29:38,200 | 01:29:39,200 | 請問一下經濟部 |
| 01:29:39,200 | 01:29:41,200 | 經濟部是不是也被指定 |
| 01:29:41,200 | 01:29:43,200 | 就是要針對檢查的 |
| 01:29:43,200 | 01:29:44,200 | 是不是 |
| 01:29:44,200 | 01:29:46,200 | 他那是考機法的 |
| 01:29:46,200 | 01:29:47,200 | 那是考機法的嗎 |
| 01:29:47,200 | 01:29:48,200 | 對 |
| 01:29:48,200 | 01:29:49,200 | 所以針對毒品 |
| 01:29:49,200 | 01:29:50,200 | 經濟部 |
| 01:29:50,200 | 01:29:52,200 | 是邀請有哪些單位 |
| 01:29:52,200 | 01:29:55,200 | 今天是法務部 |
| 01:29:55,200 | 01:29:57,200 | 內政部 |
| 01:29:57,200 | 01:29:58,200 | 衛福部 |
| 01:29:58,200 | 01:30:00,200 | 國防部 |
| 01:30:03,200 | 01:30:04,200 | 這四個 |
| 01:30:04,200 | 01:30:07,200 | 那個讀委的是這四個單位 |
| 01:30:07,200 | 01:30:09,200 | 跟經濟部沒關係 |
| 01:30:09,200 | 01:30:11,200 | 我想要講的就是說 |
| 01:30:11,200 | 01:30:12,200 | 因為就是因為 |
| 01:30:12,200 | 01:30:14,200 | 他就是一個行政管理的手段 |
| 01:30:14,200 | 01:30:16,200 | 所以他並不是一個犯罪偵查 |
| 01:30:16,200 | 01:30:19,200 | 那麼我們對於就是我們要接受管理的 |
| 01:30:19,200 | 01:30:21,200 | 被管理的這些公務員們 |
| 01:30:21,200 | 01:30:24,200 | 那麼事實上他們都理解 |
| 01:30:24,200 | 01:30:26,200 | 他們擔任這個職務 |
| 01:30:26,200 | 01:30:29,200 | 必須要有更高的一個道德 |
| 01:30:29,200 | 01:30:31,200 | 或是一個健康的一些標準 |
| 01:30:31,200 | 01:30:34,200 | 他們不可以去碰毒品的這件事情 |
| 01:30:34,200 | 01:30:36,200 | 那麼既然是如此的話 |
| 01:30:36,200 | 01:30:37,200 | 那麼事實上 |
| 01:30:37,200 | 01:30:40,200 | 在整個的行政管理的檢驗措施方面 |
| 01:30:40,200 | 01:30:42,200 | 如果能夠讓大家覺得更方便 |
| 01:30:42,200 | 01:30:44,200 | 然後更迅速更有效率 |
| 01:30:44,200 | 01:30:46,200 | 我不懂得這有什麼不好 |
| 01:30:46,200 | 01:30:48,200 | 那剛剛部長剛剛次長一直講 |
| 01:30:48,200 | 01:30:52,200 | 會涉及到人格權 |
| 01:30:52,200 | 01:30:56,200 | 人身自由的一個高強度的一個侵害 |
| 01:30:56,200 | 01:30:59,200 | 我真的我的整個想法是跟你是不一樣啦 |
| 01:30:59,200 | 01:31:01,200 | 所以我要請 |
| 01:31:01,200 | 01:31:02,200 | 剛剛次長沒有回答我 |
| 01:31:02,200 | 01:31:06,200 | 如果說今天被管理的這個公務員 |
| 01:31:06,200 | 01:31:09,200 | 他拒絕驗藥說你們要怎麼做 |
| 01:31:09,200 | 01:31:11,200 | 你們要怎麼做 |
| 01:31:11,200 | 01:31:14,200 | 如果拒絕接受唾液篩檢 |
| 01:31:14,200 | 01:31:16,200 | 你們要怎麼做 |
| 01:31:16,200 | 01:31:22,200 | 然後如果說一個聰明的這個公務員 |
| 01:31:22,200 | 01:31:25,200 | 他曉得你這個驗的時間 |
| 01:31:25,200 | 01:31:27,200 | 他可以規避 |
| 01:31:27,200 | 01:31:32,200 | 因為透過尿液的排出去 |
| 01:31:32,200 | 01:31:34,200 | 大概就差不多72小時嘛 |
| 01:31:34,200 | 01:31:38,200 | 唾液的話可能更快 |
| 01:31:38,200 | 01:31:41,200 | 他可能三天四天前他就先不碰 |
| 01:31:41,200 | 01:31:42,200 | 他就一直忍著忍 |
| 01:31:42,200 | 01:31:44,200 | 忍到你們檢查完之後 |
| 01:31:44,200 | 01:31:45,200 | 然後他才做 |
| 01:31:45,200 | 01:31:49,200 | 然後你剛剛講的懷疑的檢驗也是一樣 |
| 01:31:49,200 | 01:31:51,200 | 所以如果說你們未來可以 |
| 01:31:51,200 | 01:31:53,200 | 在這幾種不同的方式裡面 |
| 01:31:53,200 | 01:31:56,200 | 你們可以就是有一個優先順序 |
| 01:31:56,200 | 01:31:58,200 | 而且對於毛髮的檢測 |
| 01:31:58,200 | 01:31:59,200 | 你們認為說 |
| 01:31:59,200 | 01:32:00,200 | 假設他是一個 |
| 01:32:00,200 | 01:32:01,200 | 在這三個手段裡面 |
| 01:32:01,200 | 01:32:03,200 | 他是一個最後的手段 |
| 01:32:03,200 | 01:32:05,200 | 我前面兩個都請不通的時候 |
| 01:32:05,200 | 01:32:07,200 | 我可以用第三個手段 |
| 01:32:07,200 | 01:32:09,200 | 來做 |
| 01:32:09,200 | 01:32:11,200 | 這有什麼不好呢 |
| 01:32:11,200 | 01:32:13,200 | 我們大家基本上都希望 |
| 01:32:13,200 | 01:32:15,200 | 尤其是執法的公務員 |
| 01:32:15,200 | 01:32:17,200 | 他不要去碰毒品 |
| 01:32:17,200 | 01:32:19,200 | 可是你們現在這個做法 |
| 01:32:19,200 | 01:32:21,200 | 會讓我覺得某種程度來講 |
| 01:32:21,200 | 01:32:23,200 | 其實你們就告訴這些執法公務員 |
| 01:32:23,200 | 01:32:25,200 | 我如果說我真的有這樣的一個情況的話 |
| 01:32:25,200 | 01:32:27,200 | 我可以透過很多方式去規避 |
| 01:32:27,200 | 01:32:29,200 | 透過毛髮檢驗至少可以知道說 |
| 01:32:29,200 | 01:32:32,200 | 他這幾天或他過去一兩個月 |
| 01:32:32,200 | 01:32:33,200 | 或他更早之前 |
| 01:32:33,200 | 01:32:34,200 | 他有沒有吸毒過 |
| 01:32:34,200 | 01:32:35,200 | 他如果有吸毒過 |
| 01:32:35,200 | 01:32:38,200 | 他根本不適合擔任這種重要的公務 |
| 01:32:38,200 | 01:32:40,200 | 去執行這些重要的公務手段 |
| 01:32:40,200 | 01:32:42,200 | 去執行這些重要的職務 |
| 01:32:42,200 | 01:32:44,200 | 這個是我的看法 |
| 01:32:47,200 | 01:32:51,200 | 這個開始有人權的部分 |
| 01:32:51,200 | 01:32:53,200 | 確實有比例原則 |
| 01:32:53,200 | 01:32:57,200 | 是不是要到毛髮的部分 |
| 01:32:57,200 | 01:33:00,200 | 那涉及到你行政 |
| 01:33:00,200 | 01:33:03,200 | 你這個定義是一個 |
| 01:33:04,200 | 01:33:09,200 | 學者專家我有看過他們大家的意見 |
| 01:33:09,200 | 01:33:12,200 | 就是說青海本來就是要採比較最小的 |
| 01:33:12,200 | 01:33:16,200 | 那你33條的目的確實你是針對防治特定人 |
| 01:33:16,200 | 01:33:19,200 | 譬如說軍人、書記 |
| 01:33:19,200 | 01:33:21,200 | 或是校園特定對象 |
| 01:33:21,200 | 01:33:24,200 | 當然就是說是在看說他們這個 |
| 01:33:24,200 | 01:33:28,200 | 毒品氾濫或者影響植物安全的行為 |
| 01:33:28,200 | 01:33:31,200 | 你說去強制採驗毛髮 |
| 01:33:31,200 | 01:33:34,200 | 這就是說你譬如說我任職 |
| 01:33:34,200 | 01:33:38,200 | 以前我一個拜年可以任職 |
| 01:33:38,200 | 01:33:40,200 | 你如果給我採毛髮 |
| 01:33:40,200 | 01:33:46,200 | 這個等同追蹤到我還未就職之前的前面 |
| 01:33:46,200 | 01:33:50,200 | 你這個行政機關到底有沒有這個權限的問題 |
| 01:33:50,200 | 01:33:52,200 | 所以會有個人隱私 |
| 01:33:52,200 | 01:33:56,200 | 我去看法務部跟學者專家這個部分 |
| 01:33:56,200 | 01:33:59,200 | 我是看到法務部 |
| 01:33:59,200 | 01:34:00,200 | 我懂你的意思 |
| 01:34:00,200 | 01:34:04,200 | 這一次很不容易的就是說行政部門 |
| 01:34:04,200 | 01:34:05,200 | 尤其是法務部 |
| 01:34:05,200 | 01:34:08,200 | 他認為這個會有侵害到人權的部分 |
| 01:34:08,200 | 01:34:11,200 | 這個我反而會覺得他們是不簡單 |
| 01:34:11,200 | 01:34:12,200 | 反而是不簡單 |
| 01:34:12,200 | 01:34:14,200 | 不然行政部門像法務部的立場 |
| 01:34:14,200 | 01:34:16,200 | 你給我更多的武器 |
| 01:34:16,200 | 01:34:17,200 | 我會更好 |
| 01:34:17,200 | 01:34:20,200 | 法務部門讓人家覺得他們只需要武器 |
| 01:34:20,200 | 01:34:22,200 | 人權好像就比較沒有那麼的注重 |
| 01:34:22,200 | 01:34:25,200 | 那這一次整個修法的一個 |
| 01:34:26,200 | 01:34:29,200 | 我看剛次長有講 |
| 01:34:29,200 | 01:34:31,200 | 法院的目的 |
| 01:34:31,200 | 01:34:37,200 | 行政監控跟刑事偵查其實真的確實是不一樣 |
| 01:34:37,200 | 01:34:39,200 | 是不是大家可以考慮一下 |
| 01:34:39,200 | 01:34:41,200 | 你如果說在司法事務裡面 |
| 01:34:41,200 | 01:34:43,200 | 你如果有明確的犯罪罪嫌 |
| 01:34:43,200 | 01:34:45,200 | 你本來刑事訴訟法裡面 |
| 01:34:45,200 | 01:34:50,200 | 本來就有規定來進行刑事上的毛髮的一個檢驗 |
| 01:34:50,200 | 01:34:54,200 | 你33條這是一種例行性無差別的行政的抽查 |
| 01:34:54,200 | 01:34:57,200 | 你要強制到連毛髮都可以 |
| 01:34:57,200 | 01:35:00,200 | 我反而會覺得確實要有法官保留 |
| 01:35:00,200 | 01:35:02,200 | 跟嚴格的一個程序保障 |
| 01:35:02,200 | 01:35:06,200 | 我比較贊成法務部這樣的一個看法 |
| 01:35:06,200 | 01:35:10,200 | 不知道 黃委員這樣可以說服你嗎 |
| 01:35:11,200 | 01:35:14,200 | 我就說我還想聽聽看次長就是說 |
| 01:35:14,200 | 01:35:16,200 | 對於拒絕尿檢 |
| 01:35:16,200 | 01:35:19,200 | 拒絕唾液篩檢的人你們的執行方式是什麼 |
| 01:35:19,200 | 01:35:22,200 | 可不可以請你講一下整個流程好不好 |
| 01:35:22,200 | 01:35:23,200 | 又可以讓我們知道 |
| 01:35:23,200 | 01:35:25,200 | 到底他侵害人格的強度 |
| 01:35:25,200 | 01:35:29,200 | 跟這個去剪頭髮的強度是哪一個比較強嗎 |
| 01:35:29,200 | 01:35:33,200 | 而且我剛剛講了他除了出任可能需要做檢驗 |
| 01:35:33,200 | 01:35:36,200 | 之後你隨便舉一個單位 |
| 01:35:36,200 | 01:35:37,200 | 譬如說交通部 |
| 01:35:37,200 | 01:35:39,200 | 你們現在應該有相關的辦法 |
| 01:35:39,200 | 01:35:43,200 | 講一講他們大概是多久會做定期的篩檢 |
| 01:35:45,200 | 01:35:47,200 | 來 次長 |
| 01:35:47,200 | 01:35:49,200 | 各位報告 |
| 01:35:49,200 | 01:35:54,200 | 當然委員可以提供各種方法來提供檢驗 |
| 01:35:54,200 | 01:35:56,200 | 當然就行政機關的角度來講 |
| 01:35:56,200 | 01:35:58,200 | 當然理論上是越多越好 |
| 01:35:58,200 | 01:36:00,200 | 甚至不僅毛法 |
| 01:36:00,200 | 01:36:02,200 | 包括血液甚至條文裡面授權 |
| 01:36:02,200 | 01:36:05,200 | 其他可行的方法都授權行政機關來處理 |
| 01:36:05,200 | 01:36:08,200 | 當然行政機關沒有人會反對 |
| 01:36:08,200 | 01:36:12,200 | 只是站在一個法規的主管機關來講 |
| 01:36:12,200 | 01:36:14,200 | 我們必須要再次強調就是說 |
| 01:36:14,200 | 01:36:18,200 | 檢驗方法裡面他必須要有層級化不同的處理 |
| 01:36:18,200 | 01:36:20,200 | 我們現在血液的檢驗方法 |
| 01:36:20,200 | 01:36:22,200 | 我們憲判制連警察 |
| 01:36:22,200 | 01:36:24,200 | 我們一一一憲判一致 |
| 01:36:24,200 | 01:36:28,200 | 警察在造勢之後抽血這種抽血都被憲告違憲了 |
| 01:36:28,200 | 01:36:30,200 | 血液被憲告違憲 |
| 01:36:30,200 | 01:36:33,200 | 然後我們205-2毛法 |
| 01:36:33,200 | 01:36:36,200 | 他是僅限於司法警察逮捕中的憲警 |
| 01:36:36,200 | 01:36:37,200 | 不然才可以去採毛法 |
| 01:36:37,200 | 01:36:40,200 | 這是犯罪偵查都已經保障到這種程度 |
| 01:36:41,200 | 01:36:44,200 | 那在行政管理行政目的上 |
| 01:36:44,200 | 01:36:47,200 | 要不要開放授權到這個程度 |
| 01:36:47,200 | 01:36:51,200 | 我再次強調行政機關越多檢驗的工具我們越歡迎 |
| 01:36:51,200 | 01:36:54,200 | 只是我站在一個法規的目的主管機關 |
| 01:36:54,200 | 01:36:57,200 | 我們必須要做法律人該講的話 |
| 01:36:57,200 | 01:37:00,200 | 這個我必須要再次強調 |
| 01:37:00,200 | 01:37:02,200 | 剛委員一直在強調就是說 |
| 01:37:02,200 | 01:37:04,200 | 假如拒絕的話應該怎麼辦 |
| 01:37:04,200 | 01:37:07,200 | 我們33條的規範 |
| 01:37:08,200 | 01:37:10,200 | 如果這個授材裁員拒絕的話 |
| 01:37:10,200 | 01:37:13,200 | 條子規定可以拘束他的身體刑事 |
| 01:37:13,200 | 01:37:14,200 | 只可以拘束他的身體 |
| 01:37:14,200 | 01:37:16,200 | 沒有進一步規範的 |
| 01:37:16,200 | 01:37:17,200 | 換句話說 |
| 01:37:17,200 | 01:37:19,200 | 沒有 你沒有仔細看那個辦法 |
| 01:37:19,200 | 01:37:21,200 | 我昨天可是看了那個辦法 |
| 01:37:21,200 | 01:37:23,200 | 你們要不要把你們訂的授權辦法 |
| 01:37:23,200 | 01:37:25,200 | 仔細的去拿出來看 |
| 01:37:25,200 | 01:37:27,200 | 慢慢看 我們都有看 |
| 01:37:27,200 | 01:37:28,200 | 大家都有看 |
| 01:37:28,200 | 01:37:29,200 | 慢慢講 |
| 01:37:29,200 | 01:37:30,200 | 他就是必要是 |
| 01:37:30,200 | 01:37:32,200 | 他就是母法來拘束他的身體刑事 |
| 01:37:32,200 | 01:37:34,200 | 因為你們有訂定 |
| 01:37:34,200 | 01:37:35,200 | 就是 |
| 01:37:35,200 | 01:37:36,200 | 第七條 |
| 01:37:36,200 | 01:37:38,200 | 33條的第二項 |
| 01:37:38,200 | 01:37:41,200 | 前項特定人員的範圍及採驗 |
| 01:37:41,200 | 01:37:44,200 | 採驗尿液的辦法遊行正願訂知 |
| 01:37:44,200 | 01:37:47,200 | 所以我有看到你們採驗尿液的實施辦法 |
| 01:37:47,200 | 01:37:49,200 | 辦法裡面第七條必要時的拘束 |
| 01:37:49,200 | 01:37:50,200 | 其實是身體刑事 |
| 01:37:50,200 | 01:37:52,200 | 然後程序呢 |
| 01:37:52,200 | 01:37:55,200 | 程序的話是要有人陪著進去 |
| 01:37:55,200 | 01:37:57,200 | 那個廁所裡面 |
| 01:37:57,200 | 01:38:00,200 | 然後來協助採尿 |
| 01:38:02,200 | 01:38:03,200 | 對啊 這採尿 |
| 01:38:03,200 | 01:38:05,200 | 對啊 這採尿跟拘束神聖自由沒有錯 |
| 01:38:05,200 | 01:38:08,200 | 之後協助採尿跟拘束神聖自由沒有關係嗎 |
| 01:38:08,200 | 01:38:10,200 | 一個人在旁邊看 |
| 01:38:10,200 | 01:38:12,200 | 看有沒有排尿 |
| 01:38:12,200 | 01:38:14,200 | 那是怕他避免他掉包 |
| 01:38:14,200 | 01:38:16,200 | 那個本來就是辦法裡面有規定 |
| 01:38:16,200 | 01:38:17,200 | 所以你會覺得說 |
| 01:38:17,200 | 01:38:19,200 | 這樣子對於侵害人格權 |
| 01:38:19,200 | 01:38:22,200 | 侵害人身自由的強度反而比較低 |
| 01:38:22,200 | 01:38:23,200 | 然後呢 |
| 01:38:23,200 | 01:38:24,200 | 這個去剪一個頭髮 |
| 01:38:24,200 | 01:38:26,200 | 他的強度還比較高 |
| 01:38:26,200 | 01:38:27,200 | 所以我就講 |
| 01:38:27,200 | 01:38:29,200 | 這就是我覺得很大的觀念上的不同 |
| 01:38:29,200 | 01:38:32,200 | 對於很多的公務員來講 |
| 01:38:32,200 | 01:38:35,200 | 我覺得也許不見得能夠接受像您這樣的說法 |
| 01:38:35,200 | 01:38:37,200 | 更何況我們這樣講 |
| 01:38:37,200 | 01:38:39,200 | 就是你刑事訴訟法 |
| 01:38:39,200 | 01:38:40,200 | 它規定的 |
| 01:38:40,200 | 01:38:42,200 | 有很多總統還尿疫 |
| 01:38:42,200 | 01:38:43,200 | 也有 |
| 01:38:43,200 | 01:38:45,200 | 它也可以作為採證的方式 |
| 01:38:45,200 | 01:38:46,200 | 然後唾液 |
| 01:38:46,200 | 01:38:47,200 | 然後血液 |
| 01:38:47,200 | 01:38:48,200 | 驗血等等 |
| 01:38:48,200 | 01:38:50,200 | 這是規定在刑事訴訟法裡面 |
| 01:38:50,200 | 01:38:52,200 | 但是我們現在行政法 |
| 01:38:52,200 | 01:38:54,200 | 這個所謂毒品危害防治條例裡面 |
| 01:38:54,200 | 01:38:56,200 | 我們多增加一個法律 |
| 01:38:56,200 | 01:38:58,200 | 也就是也符合法律保留原則 |
| 01:38:58,200 | 01:39:00,200 | 而且我們衡量過 |
| 01:39:00,200 | 01:39:02,200 | 防治毒品的危害 |
| 01:39:02,200 | 01:39:04,200 | 還有人權的 |
| 01:39:04,200 | 01:39:06,200 | 權益的保障 |
| 01:39:06,200 | 01:39:08,200 | 我們都有兼顧到 |
| 01:39:08,200 | 01:39:09,200 | 對 |
| 01:39:09,200 | 01:39:11,200 | 那因此就是剛剛次長一直不斷的講 |
| 01:39:11,200 | 01:39:12,200 | 而且我一直要講 |
| 01:39:12,200 | 01:39:14,200 | 這是一個行政管理的手段 |
| 01:39:14,200 | 01:39:16,200 | 它不是一個犯罪偵查 |
| 01:39:16,200 | 01:39:18,200 | 它跟警察去臨檢 |
| 01:39:18,200 | 01:39:19,200 | 這是兩回事 |
| 01:39:19,200 | 01:39:21,200 | 既然是行政管理的手段 |
| 01:39:21,200 | 01:39:23,200 | 它就會常常會啟動 |
| 01:39:23,200 | 01:39:24,200 | 常常會啟動 |
| 01:39:24,200 | 01:39:26,200 | 那對於當事人來講 |
| 01:39:26,200 | 01:39:27,200 | 為什麼不能夠 |
| 01:39:27,200 | 01:39:29,200 | 讓當事人可以有個選擇 |
| 01:39:29,200 | 01:39:31,200 | 我要接受什麼樣的檢驗 |
| 01:39:31,200 | 01:39:32,200 | 我如果說認為說 |
| 01:39:32,200 | 01:39:34,200 | 其實我坦蕩蕩 |
| 01:39:34,200 | 01:39:35,200 | 我就沒有吸毒品 |
| 01:39:35,200 | 01:39:36,200 | 你就把我抓 |
| 01:39:36,200 | 01:39:38,200 | 就是拔掉幾根頭髮去做檢驗 |
| 01:39:38,200 | 01:39:39,200 | 可以證明說 |
| 01:39:39,200 | 01:39:41,200 | 我長期間我都沒有吸毒 |
| 01:39:41,200 | 01:39:43,200 | 這不是更有效果 |
| 01:39:43,200 | 01:39:45,200 | 那反而是說是 |
| 01:39:45,200 | 01:39:48,200 | 你們對於這個短短的時間的 |
| 01:39:48,200 | 01:39:49,200 | 這個檢測方式 |
| 01:39:49,200 | 01:39:51,200 | 它很容易毒品就排掉了 |
| 01:39:51,200 | 01:39:53,200 | 你們比較喜歡用這個方式 |
| 01:39:53,200 | 01:39:56,200 | 但是對於我剛剛講那個規避的問題 |
| 01:39:56,200 | 01:39:57,200 | 一個聰明 |
| 01:39:57,200 | 01:39:59,200 | 他真的吸食毒品的公務員 |
| 01:39:59,200 | 01:40:02,200 | 他很容易透過幾天的尿液排毒 |
| 01:40:02,200 | 01:40:03,200 | 出去之後 |
| 01:40:03,200 | 01:40:07,200 | 他就前幾天可能就不碰毒 |
| 01:40:07,200 | 01:40:09,200 | 但是之後他可能又會碰毒 |
| 01:40:09,200 | 01:40:11,200 | 但是你們驗不到 |
| 01:40:11,200 | 01:40:12,200 | 對於學生來講 |
| 01:40:12,200 | 01:40:14,200 | 也是這樣的一個問題 |
| 01:40:14,200 | 01:40:16,200 | 所以這就是我在說 |
| 01:40:16,200 | 01:40:19,200 | 多一個方法 |
| 01:40:19,200 | 01:40:23,200 | 而且我還同意就是你們未來 |
| 01:40:23,200 | 01:40:25,200 | 可以由行政院自己去訂定 |
| 01:40:25,200 | 01:40:28,200 | 驗尿液跟驗唾液的實施辦法 |
| 01:40:28,200 | 01:40:32,200 | 你們什麼時候決定要驗唾液驗毛髮 |
| 01:40:32,200 | 01:40:35,200 | 這個都是你們自己可以去訂定的 |
| 01:40:35,200 | 01:40:37,200 | 對 這一上我在強調我的意見 |
| 01:40:37,200 | 01:40:38,200 | 這有一個問題 |
| 01:40:38,200 | 01:40:40,200 | 我來釐清一下 |
| 01:40:40,200 | 01:40:42,200 | 就是說在座所有的委員 |
| 01:40:42,200 | 01:40:44,200 | 跟所有的官員 |
| 01:40:44,200 | 01:40:46,200 | 沒有任何跡象的話 |
| 01:40:46,200 | 01:40:49,200 | 沒有人可以來跟你講說 |
| 01:40:49,200 | 01:40:51,200 | 來 你的一支頭髮 |
| 01:40:51,200 | 01:40:54,200 | 你的唾液我要來印看看 |
| 01:40:54,200 | 01:40:55,200 | 你到底有沒有吸毒 |
| 01:40:55,200 | 01:40:57,200 | 都不行 這個都不行 |
| 01:40:57,200 | 01:41:00,200 | 那你現在就是說 |
| 01:41:00,200 | 01:41:03,200 | 我看幾個部門的監督機關裡面 |
| 01:41:03,200 | 01:41:08,200 | 行政的對他的監督的人員 |
| 01:41:08,200 | 01:41:10,200 | 不管你是內政部 |
| 01:41:10,200 | 01:41:13,200 | 還是交通部 還是國防部 |
| 01:41:13,200 | 01:41:17,200 | 像這個 他覺得我受監督的對象 |
| 01:41:17,200 | 01:41:19,200 | 他可能會有這樣的一個 |
| 01:41:19,200 | 01:41:23,200 | 比較有去試用毒品嗎 |
| 01:41:23,200 | 01:41:26,200 | 所以他覺得要來做減嚴 |
| 01:41:26,200 | 01:41:28,200 | 那種即時性的 |
| 01:41:28,200 | 01:41:32,200 | 各位去看內政部 這個副表裡面 |
| 01:41:32,200 | 01:41:34,200 | 內政部也好 國防部也好 |
| 01:41:34,200 | 01:41:37,200 | 或者教育部也好 法務部也好 |
| 01:41:37,200 | 01:41:39,200 | 就是說你如果下政部 |
| 01:41:39,200 | 01:41:42,200 | 就是他就針對生活情報不正當 |
| 01:41:42,200 | 01:41:45,200 | 有試用毒品嫌疑的這些警察人員 |
| 01:41:45,200 | 01:41:48,200 | 是說跟這個警察 |
| 01:41:48,200 | 01:41:51,200 | 就跟毒販頻繁去做交往 |
| 01:41:51,200 | 01:41:53,200 | 或是說你毒品檢驗 |
| 01:41:53,200 | 01:41:57,200 | 跟政務室保管的警察人員 |
| 01:41:57,200 | 01:41:59,200 | 或是說替代他的 |
| 01:41:59,200 | 01:42:01,200 | 他就開始跟你列舉這些 |
| 01:42:01,200 | 01:42:03,200 | 他就覺得認為 事實中認為 |
| 01:42:03,200 | 01:42:06,200 | 可能用毒品 |
| 01:42:06,200 | 01:42:09,200 | 針對這些 他內政部的副表 |
| 01:42:09,200 | 01:42:11,200 | 就是說這些人的一個 |
| 01:42:11,200 | 01:42:14,200 | 尿疫的一個採驗的一個辦法 |
| 01:42:14,200 | 01:42:17,200 | 說我受我監督的人 |
| 01:42:17,200 | 01:42:19,200 | 我要用這樣的一個方式 |
| 01:42:19,200 | 01:42:21,200 | 那你至於說 |
| 01:42:21,200 | 01:42:23,200 | 我要再用一句毛髮的方式 |
| 01:42:23,200 | 01:42:25,200 | 那個是涉及到 我也認為 |
| 01:42:25,200 | 01:42:27,200 | 那個是屬於刑事訴訟法裡面的 |
| 01:42:27,200 | 01:42:29,200 | 犯罪偵查 |
| 01:42:29,200 | 01:42:31,200 | 去刑事訴訟的部分 |
| 01:42:31,200 | 01:42:33,200 | 那你如果說沒有 |
| 01:42:33,200 | 01:42:35,200 | 刑事訴訟在犯罪偵查 |
| 01:42:35,200 | 01:42:37,200 | 你說檢察官或警察 |
| 01:42:37,200 | 01:42:39,200 | 他也不能去馬路邊抓一個人 |
| 01:42:39,200 | 01:42:40,200 | 就給他抓去 跟他說 |
| 01:42:40,200 | 01:42:43,200 | 我要給你驗尿 驗唾液 |
| 01:42:43,200 | 01:42:45,200 | 甚至要來採毛髮 |
| 01:42:45,200 | 01:42:46,200 | 也不行 |
| 01:42:46,200 | 01:42:48,200 | 所以我們在這個地方33條 |
| 01:42:48,200 | 01:42:50,200 | 請各位再看一下 |
| 01:42:50,200 | 01:42:55,200 | 33條 這個是在針對主管機關 |
| 01:42:55,200 | 01:42:58,200 | 對於他所屬跟監督的特定人員 |
| 01:42:58,200 | 01:43:04,200 | 就是說內政部 國防部 教育部 |
| 01:43:04,200 | 01:43:06,200 | 還有法務部 |
| 01:43:06,200 | 01:43:08,200 | 是在講這些 |
| 01:43:08,200 | 01:43:10,200 | 還有經濟部 交通部 |
| 01:43:10,200 | 01:43:11,200 | 是在講這些的人 |
| 01:43:11,200 | 01:43:14,200 | 不是對一般的一個民眾 |
| 01:43:14,200 | 01:43:16,200 | 市長我這樣說對了 |
| 01:43:16,200 | 01:43:18,200 | 就針對這一些 |
| 01:43:18,200 | 01:43:20,200 | 針對這一些就是說 |
| 01:43:20,200 | 01:43:22,200 | 我要迅速來知道 |
| 01:43:22,200 | 01:43:24,200 | 他有犯罪沒犯罪 |
| 01:43:24,200 | 01:43:25,200 | 那就是另外一回事 |
| 01:43:25,200 | 01:43:27,200 | 他如果有犯罪 |
| 01:43:27,200 | 01:43:29,200 | 當然 譬如說 |
| 01:43:29,200 | 01:43:30,200 | 有犯罪嫌疑 |
| 01:43:30,200 | 01:43:31,200 | 發現有毒品 |
| 01:43:31,200 | 01:43:32,200 | 或者什麼 |
| 01:43:32,200 | 01:43:35,200 | 就開始警察機關介入 |
| 01:43:35,200 | 01:43:36,200 | 或者報警檢察官 |
| 01:43:36,200 | 01:43:40,200 | 就開始去啟動刑事上偵查 |
| 01:43:40,200 | 01:43:42,200 | 那個當然會有毛髮的問題 |
| 01:43:42,200 | 01:43:44,200 | 那就可以了 |
| 01:43:44,200 | 01:43:46,200 | 但是現在這個出院的部分 |
| 01:43:46,200 | 01:43:49,200 | 是不是要翁委員的部分 |
| 01:43:49,200 | 01:43:51,200 | 你把毛髮也放進去 |
| 01:43:51,200 | 01:43:53,200 | 確實要再考量一下 |
| 01:43:53,200 | 01:43:56,200 | 翁委員你用心良苦我都知道 |
| 01:43:56,200 | 01:43:59,200 | 但是我去我建議你 |
| 01:43:59,200 | 01:44:02,200 | 我知道你對這個部分有準備 |
| 01:44:02,200 | 01:44:04,200 | 但問題就是說 |
| 01:44:04,200 | 01:44:06,200 | 大家會有不一樣的一個看法 |
| 01:44:06,200 | 01:44:08,200 | 就是學者專家 |
| 01:44:08,200 | 01:44:10,200 | 甚至於連法務部 |
| 01:44:10,200 | 01:44:11,200 | 他都認為 |
| 01:44:11,200 | 01:44:14,200 | 這個都已經違反比例原則了 |
| 01:44:14,200 | 01:44:17,200 | 有一點這個武器給得過多 |
| 01:44:17,200 | 01:44:19,200 | 再來換誰 |
| 01:44:19,200 | 01:44:21,200 | 先由范雲委員講一下 |
| 01:44:21,200 | 01:44:23,200 | 三條而已我陪你們 |
| 01:44:23,200 | 01:44:25,200 | 我想這個毒品 |
| 01:44:25,200 | 01:44:27,200 | 真的是非常重要 |
| 01:44:27,200 | 01:44:28,200 | 也是非常嚴重的議題 |
| 01:44:28,200 | 01:44:31,200 | 那其實他現在是個全球的議題 |
| 01:44:31,200 | 01:44:34,200 | 因為根據聯合國的世界毒品報告 |
| 01:44:34,200 | 01:44:38,200 | 全球15歲到64歲人口 |
| 01:44:38,200 | 01:44:42,200 | 5.6%都曾經使用過毒品 |
| 01:44:42,200 | 01:44:44,200 | 那他相關的報告也講 |
| 01:44:44,200 | 01:44:46,200 | 其實這個新型的合成毒品 |
| 01:44:46,200 | 01:44:48,200 | 他不斷的在變化 |
| 01:44:48,200 | 01:44:50,200 | 研發新的內容 |
| 01:44:50,200 | 01:44:53,200 | 那一直在躲避法規跟逃避偵測 |
| 01:44:53,200 | 01:44:56,200 | 所以到底是如何能夠檢測出 |
| 01:44:56,200 | 01:44:57,200 | 其實真的是一個 |
| 01:44:57,200 | 01:44:59,200 | 高難度也很重要的事 |
| 01:44:59,200 | 01:45:01,200 | 而我之前質詢的時候 |
| 01:45:01,200 | 01:45:03,200 | 一直強調我認為 |
| 01:45:03,200 | 01:45:05,200 | 這是檢測非常的重要 |
| 01:45:05,200 | 01:45:07,200 | 但是源頭管制 |
| 01:45:07,200 | 01:45:09,200 | 那也是非常根本的事情 |
| 01:45:09,200 | 01:45:12,200 | 希望法務部能夠重視這個部分 |
| 01:45:12,200 | 01:45:14,200 | 但我們今天討論的是這個 |
| 01:45:14,200 | 01:45:18,200 | 主管機關對於所屬或監督之特定人員 |
| 01:45:18,200 | 01:45:22,200 | 於必要的時候能夠採驗尿液再加上什麼 |
| 01:45:22,200 | 01:45:26,200 | 那因為它性質上是個行政調查 |
| 01:45:26,200 | 01:45:28,200 | 所以我認為快速可以驗出 |
| 01:45:28,200 | 01:45:30,200 | 其實是最重要的 |
| 01:45:30,200 | 01:45:32,200 | 那唾液的這個檢測 |
| 01:45:32,200 | 01:45:34,200 | 那其實目前的相關的研究 |
| 01:45:34,200 | 01:45:35,200 | 它是可以的 |
| 01:45:35,200 | 01:45:37,200 | 因為它有一個好處就是非侵入性 |
| 01:45:37,200 | 01:45:39,200 | 採樣又很快 |
| 01:45:39,200 | 01:45:41,200 | 那考慮喪屍煙淡 |
| 01:45:41,200 | 01:45:44,200 | 它的那個半衰期非常的短 |
| 01:45:44,200 | 01:45:46,200 | 就是那個所謂依托彌質的半衰期很短 |
| 01:45:46,200 | 01:45:48,200 | 那如果它拖過那個採驗期 |
| 01:45:48,200 | 01:45:50,200 | 就可能逃過 |
| 01:45:50,200 | 01:45:52,200 | 所以我覺得那個檢驗的速度快 |
| 01:45:52,200 | 01:45:54,200 | 然後非侵入性 |
| 01:45:54,200 | 01:45:57,200 | 那現場就能夠有這樣子一個 |
| 01:45:57,200 | 01:45:59,200 | 行政上的一個做法 |
| 01:45:59,200 | 01:46:00,200 | 我覺得是最重要的 |
| 01:46:00,200 | 01:46:01,200 | 我這樣講就是 |
| 01:46:01,200 | 01:46:04,200 | 那我支持這個行政院的版本 |
| 01:46:04,200 | 01:46:06,200 | 那我自己的版本也是這樣訂 |
| 01:46:06,200 | 01:46:08,200 | 跟大家說明謝謝 |
| 01:46:12,200 | 01:46:13,200 | 趙志偉 |
| 01:46:13,200 | 01:46:16,200 | 主席你今天就一直好像 |
| 01:46:16,200 | 01:46:18,200 | 覺得我不要講話了 |
| 01:46:18,200 | 01:46:19,200 | 你知道我摔了大交涉 |
| 01:46:19,200 | 01:46:22,200 | 不過我頭腦還可以表達 |
| 01:46:22,200 | 01:46:23,200 | 第一個我們就回到初衷 |
| 01:46:23,200 | 01:46:25,200 | 我覺得剛剛范永偉一開始講的 |
| 01:46:25,200 | 01:46:26,200 | 因為他錯過了廣泛討論 |
| 01:46:26,200 | 01:46:29,200 | 我們其實已經進入那個技術面的部分 |
| 01:46:29,200 | 01:46:32,200 | 第一個你看這個行政院自己提案的 |
| 01:46:32,200 | 01:46:34,200 | 它的立法說明 |
| 01:46:34,200 | 01:46:37,200 | 你看它現在說特定人員要列管 |
| 01:46:37,200 | 01:46:38,200 | 列管 |
| 01:46:38,200 | 01:46:40,200 | 就是你要把你這些特定的人員 |
| 01:46:40,200 | 01:46:41,200 | 你要做列管 |
| 01:46:41,200 | 01:46:43,200 | 也許這個要什麼樣管什麼 |
| 01:46:43,200 | 01:46:45,200 | 那你這個列管本身 |
| 01:46:45,200 | 01:46:47,200 | 你讀起來這個文字就不是即時 |
| 01:46:47,200 | 01:46:49,200 | 就不是立刻現在 |
| 01:46:49,200 | 01:46:51,200 | 因為你要把你這個特定的人員做列管 |
| 01:46:51,200 | 01:46:53,200 | 我先舉例醫院 |
| 01:46:53,200 | 01:46:56,200 | 醫院為什麼每個人進去到醫院上班 |
| 01:46:56,200 | 01:46:57,200 | 包括行政人員 |
| 01:46:57,200 | 01:46:59,200 | 我們因為怕感染病人 |
| 01:46:59,200 | 01:47:00,200 | 因為我們接觸病人等等 |
| 01:47:00,200 | 01:47:02,200 | 譬如說早期現在吸肝被拿掉 |
| 01:47:02,200 | 01:47:03,200 | 清除很棒 |
| 01:47:03,200 | 01:47:05,200 | 那個B肝的那種罪一定要測 |
| 01:47:05,200 | 01:47:07,200 | 譬如說TB肺結合一定要測 |
| 01:47:07,200 | 01:47:09,200 | 就是因為你的工作上 |
| 01:47:09,200 | 01:47:11,200 | 或是必要性在那個環境裡面 |
| 01:47:11,200 | 01:47:12,200 | 我們都測 |
| 01:47:12,200 | 01:47:13,200 | 這個都毫無疑問 |
| 01:47:13,200 | 01:47:15,200 | 這個沒有什麼違憲或是什麼東西 |
| 01:47:15,200 | 01:47:17,200 | 這個東西就是你在那個環境上 |
| 01:47:17,200 | 01:47:18,200 | 你要保護自己 |
| 01:47:18,200 | 01:47:19,200 | 也要保護病人 |
| 01:47:19,200 | 01:47:21,200 | 那也要避免這個傳導 |
| 01:47:21,200 | 01:47:23,200 | 所以基本上我們先回到原始初衷 |
| 01:47:23,200 | 01:47:25,200 | 那光看這個列管考量 |
| 01:47:25,200 | 01:47:27,200 | 那為什麼我現在也會同意說 |
| 01:47:27,200 | 01:47:28,200 | 毛髮 |
| 01:47:28,200 | 01:47:29,200 | 我剛開始就同意 |
| 01:47:29,200 | 01:47:30,200 | 放進來 |
| 01:47:30,200 | 01:47:32,200 | 我想請主管機關記得 |
| 01:47:32,200 | 01:47:34,200 | 今天不是只有那個 |
| 01:47:34,200 | 01:47:36,200 | 成分本身的半衰期 |
| 01:47:36,200 | 01:47:38,200 | 現在還要看你檢驗的能力 |
| 01:47:38,200 | 01:47:40,200 | 那現在事實上這個 |
| 01:47:40,200 | 01:47:43,200 | E-Tormes在各個地方的半衰期 |
| 01:47:43,200 | 01:47:44,200 | 都會不一樣 |
| 01:47:44,200 | 01:47:46,200 | 在唾液也許他這個8成以上 |
| 01:47:46,200 | 01:47:48,200 | 在24小時就不見了 |
| 01:47:48,200 | 01:47:49,200 | 你要掌握時間 |
| 01:47:49,200 | 01:47:51,200 | 但是然後這個 |
| 01:47:51,200 | 01:47:53,200 | 包括在尿液的 |
| 01:47:53,200 | 01:47:54,200 | 尿液是最快的 |
| 01:47:54,200 | 01:47:55,200 | 然後唾液時間變慢 |
| 01:47:55,200 | 01:47:56,200 | 毛髮 |
| 01:47:56,200 | 01:47:58,200 | 剛剛大家講到毛髮 |
| 01:47:58,200 | 01:48:00,200 | 事實上主席不好意思 |
| 01:48:00,200 | 01:48:01,200 | 你剛剛講說 |
| 01:48:01,200 | 01:48:03,200 | 一個月前他有吸毒 |
| 01:48:03,200 | 01:48:05,200 | 那我們怎麼知道他戒掉了 |
| 01:48:05,200 | 01:48:07,200 | 就是說他一個月前 |
| 01:48:07,200 | 01:48:09,200 | 也是危險人物 |
| 01:48:09,200 | 01:48:10,200 | 你也一樣 |
| 01:48:10,200 | 01:48:11,200 | 你也一樣 |
| 01:48:11,200 | 01:48:12,200 | 我們33條 |
| 01:48:12,200 | 01:48:14,200 | 趙姿我跟妳對話一下 |
| 01:48:14,200 | 01:48:16,200 | 我這沒牌子 |
| 01:48:16,200 | 01:48:18,200 | 33條我們真的要賦予 |
| 01:48:18,200 | 01:48:20,200 | 行政機關這麼大的權力嗎 |
| 01:48:20,200 | 01:48:22,200 | 因為他說要列管 |
| 01:48:22,200 | 01:48:23,200 | 不是不是 |
| 01:48:23,200 | 01:48:25,200 | 你如果是司法部門 |
| 01:48:25,200 | 01:48:27,200 | 如果是檢察官 |
| 01:48:27,200 | 01:48:28,200 | 你就法官 |
| 01:48:28,200 | 01:48:30,200 | 我就法官保留OK |
| 01:48:30,200 | 01:48:32,200 | 我偵辦人員我得到 |
| 01:48:32,200 | 01:48:34,200 | 這個我在偵查當中 |
| 01:48:34,200 | 01:48:37,200 | 行政司法賦予他的一個權限 |
| 01:48:37,200 | 01:48:40,200 | 說我就要自己採你的毛髮 |
| 01:48:40,200 | 01:48:42,200 | 說要看你這個人是不是犯罪 |
| 01:48:42,200 | 01:48:44,200 | 犯罪沒有這個我OK |
| 01:48:44,200 | 01:48:46,200 | 但是我們現在33條 |
| 01:48:46,200 | 01:48:49,200 | 立法的目的是在講行政人員 |
| 01:48:49,200 | 01:48:51,200 | 你也可以有這麼大的權限 |
| 01:48:51,200 | 01:48:53,200 | 到連毛髮 |
| 01:48:53,200 | 01:48:54,200 | 那個講侵入性 |
| 01:48:54,200 | 01:48:56,200 | 侵入性大家有點誤解 |
| 01:48:56,200 | 01:48:58,200 | 侵入性大家以為是到人體裡面 |
| 01:48:58,200 | 01:48:59,200 | 才叫侵入性 |
| 01:48:59,200 | 01:49:02,200 | 不是侵入性的解釋裡面 |
| 01:49:02,200 | 01:49:04,200 | 是涉及到個人的隱私 |
| 01:49:04,200 | 01:49:08,200 | 或者說涉及到我生活的紀錄 |
| 01:49:08,200 | 01:49:10,200 | 這個部分都有人權上的疑慮 |
| 01:49:10,200 | 01:49:12,200 | 但我們立法的真的大家不敢說這個 |
| 01:49:12,200 | 01:49:14,200 | 說這個之後好像又講說 |
| 01:49:14,200 | 01:49:18,200 | 好像又碰到這個販毒的部分 |
| 01:49:18,200 | 01:49:19,200 | 你們就在講人權 |
| 01:49:19,200 | 01:49:20,200 | 又去讓你們台灣民眾 |
| 01:49:20,200 | 01:49:21,200 | 大家國民眾賠罪 |
| 01:49:21,200 | 01:49:22,200 | 我們多衰你知道嗎 |
| 01:49:22,200 | 01:49:24,200 | 但是在司法法制委員會 |
| 01:49:24,200 | 01:49:27,200 | 我很敢講的原因在這裡 |
| 01:49:27,200 | 01:49:31,200 | 我認為這個立法輕易下去的話 |
| 01:49:31,200 | 01:49:33,200 | 因為個人的見解 |
| 01:49:33,200 | 01:49:35,200 | 沒有聽別人的聲音 |
| 01:49:35,200 | 01:49:36,200 | 這樣也不好 |
| 01:49:36,200 | 01:49:39,200 | 我比較喜歡堅持我自己的看法 |
| 01:49:39,200 | 01:49:42,200 | 所以你們的意見我都聽懂了 |
| 01:49:42,200 | 01:49:43,200 | 但問題是我怕 |
| 01:49:43,200 | 01:49:45,200 | 你們沒有想到的部分就是說 |
| 01:49:45,200 | 01:49:47,200 | 我們也聽聽看 |
| 01:49:47,200 | 01:49:51,200 | 連法務部連學者專家都會認為 |
| 01:49:51,200 | 01:49:54,200 | 你授權給行政部門 |
| 01:49:54,200 | 01:49:57,200 | 會不會給他太多的武器 |
| 01:49:57,200 | 01:49:59,200 | 如果是犯罪偵查 |
| 01:49:59,200 | 01:50:00,200 | 有檢查官 |
| 01:50:00,200 | 01:50:02,200 | 有檢察來申請 |
| 01:50:02,200 | 01:50:04,200 | 有法官保留搜索票的保文 |
| 01:50:04,200 | 01:50:06,200 | 強制處分的保文 |
| 01:50:06,200 | 01:50:07,200 | 看要怎麼動他 |
| 01:50:07,200 | 01:50:09,200 | 可是這個不是在講犯罪 |
| 01:50:09,200 | 01:50:12,200 | 這是要及時去發現 |
| 01:50:12,200 | 01:50:14,200 | 那你要不要給行政部門 |
| 01:50:14,200 | 01:50:16,200 | 給他的權限 |
| 01:50:16,200 | 01:50:20,200 | 跟司法機關或者偵察機關 |
| 01:50:20,200 | 01:50:23,200 | 給他們同樣那麼多的武器 |
| 01:50:23,200 | 01:50:25,200 | 我是擔心這個 |
| 01:50:25,200 | 01:50:27,200 | 主席前面幾個方法 |
| 01:50:27,200 | 01:50:29,200 | 包括拓葉跟鳥蟻 |
| 01:50:29,200 | 01:50:31,200 | 其實我現在都還沒有檢驗他們 |
| 01:50:31,200 | 01:50:32,200 | 就了解他們實際上執行 |
| 01:50:32,200 | 01:50:33,200 | 因為他有偽陰偽陽性 |
| 01:50:33,200 | 01:50:35,200 | 他的頻率 |
| 01:50:35,200 | 01:50:36,200 | 其實他的頻率代表說 |
| 01:50:36,200 | 01:50:39,200 | 他的偵測的能力還有過的時間 |
| 01:50:39,200 | 01:50:41,200 | 這個我們今天你一邊講 |
| 01:50:41,200 | 01:50:42,200 | 我剛剛突然就有點想到 |
| 01:50:42,200 | 01:50:45,200 | 當初就是有品流樣出問題 |
| 01:50:45,200 | 01:50:47,200 | 他這個有點流樣的感覺 |
| 01:50:47,200 | 01:50:49,200 | 像其實那個毛髮要取起來 |
| 01:50:49,200 | 01:50:51,200 | 但是毛髮每個月找1公分 |
| 01:50:51,200 | 01:50:53,200 | 你如果就是檢到1公分為止 |
| 01:50:53,200 | 01:50:54,200 | 其實他這個一個月內 |
| 01:50:54,200 | 01:50:55,200 | 你也是空窗期 |
| 01:50:55,200 | 01:50:57,200 | 你也是測不出來 |
| 01:50:57,200 | 01:50:58,200 | 但是他們的頻率 |
| 01:50:58,200 | 01:51:01,200 | 有針對這樣科學去設計嗎 |
| 01:51:01,200 | 01:51:03,200 | 司法當然不要侵犯人權 |
| 01:51:03,200 | 01:51:04,200 | 可是你要based |
| 01:51:04,200 | 01:51:07,200 | 你做的方法跟選擇的檢驗方法 |
| 01:51:07,200 | 01:51:09,200 | 跟所謂等一下我們會提出來 |
| 01:51:09,200 | 01:51:11,200 | 要怎麼樣偽陰跟偽陽性 |
| 01:51:11,200 | 01:51:12,200 | 我今天談的是偽陽性 |
| 01:51:12,200 | 01:51:13,200 | 就是冤枉人家 |
| 01:51:13,200 | 01:51:15,200 | 偽陰就是放掉了 |
| 01:51:15,200 | 01:51:16,200 | 就是重放了 |
| 01:51:16,200 | 01:51:18,200 | 這個部分才是真正 |
| 01:51:18,200 | 01:51:19,200 | 我覺得是重要的人權 |
| 01:51:19,200 | 01:51:21,200 | 那有關這個部分 |
| 01:51:21,200 | 01:51:23,200 | 如果他們這裡沒有足夠科學的資料 |
| 01:51:23,200 | 01:51:26,200 | 在辦法中去搭配的話 |
| 01:51:26,200 | 01:51:28,200 | 我反而覺得這個有這個心 |
| 01:51:28,200 | 01:51:31,200 | 反而沒有辦法把這件事情做好 |
| 01:51:31,200 | 01:51:32,200 | 你會說話這樣 |
| 01:51:32,200 | 01:51:36,200 | 你的論述更不應該贊成毛髮 |
| 01:51:36,200 | 01:51:39,200 | 你像譬如說你那個環境汙染的部分 |
| 01:51:39,200 | 01:51:40,200 | 你這樣走進去 |
| 01:51:40,200 | 01:51:42,200 | 我們這群人在這裡吸毒 |
| 01:51:42,200 | 01:51:44,200 | 假設我們這組叫做吸毒組的 |
| 01:51:44,200 | 01:51:45,200 | 我們這邊是吸毒 |
| 01:51:45,200 | 01:51:48,200 | 翁委員跟陳召志委你們走進去後 |
| 01:51:48,200 | 01:51:51,200 | 沒有你們兩個走進來 |
| 01:51:51,200 | 01:51:53,200 | 那這個叫做環境 |
| 01:51:53,200 | 01:51:57,200 | 這個環境你們的兩個毛髮就受到汙染 |
| 01:51:57,200 | 01:51:58,200 | 你們兩個出去後 |
| 01:51:58,200 | 01:52:00,200 | 因為你們兩個都法務部 |
| 01:52:00,200 | 01:52:01,200 | 流氧哪有隨便放的 |
| 01:52:01,200 | 01:52:03,200 | 流氧有一定的環境 |
| 01:52:03,200 | 01:52:04,200 | 有品就是這一次 |
| 01:52:04,200 | 01:52:06,200 | 不是啦我在跟你講毛髮 |
| 01:52:06,200 | 01:52:08,200 | 我是說假設我們在這邊吸毒 |
| 01:52:08,200 | 01:52:10,200 | 我們幾個在這裡吸毒 |
| 01:52:10,200 | 01:52:12,200 | 你們兩個走進去後 |
| 01:52:12,200 | 01:52:13,200 | 我們都法務部的人 |
| 01:52:13,200 | 01:52:15,200 | 法務部的人你們兩個走進去後 |
| 01:52:15,200 | 01:52:17,200 | 你們兩個的頭髮會受到這個環境 |
| 01:52:17,200 | 01:52:18,200 | 我們在這邊吸毒 |
| 01:52:18,200 | 01:52:21,200 | 二手毒品淹害 |
| 01:52:21,200 | 01:52:22,200 | 還不會 |
| 01:52:22,200 | 01:52:25,200 | 不是這個這沒有開玩笑 |
| 01:52:25,200 | 01:52:27,200 | 好那你出去以後 |
| 01:52:27,200 | 01:52:29,200 | 自己你敢不敢 |
| 01:52:29,200 | 01:52:31,200 | Nature science的我比較強 |
| 01:52:31,200 | 01:52:32,200 | 我的意思就是說 |
| 01:52:32,200 | 01:52:34,200 | 黃某信是次長 |
| 01:52:34,200 | 01:52:38,200 | 你願意讓他一個全縣行政部門不是犯罪 |
| 01:52:38,200 | 01:52:41,200 | 讓法務部可以決定拿你一根頭髮去嗎 |
| 01:52:41,200 | 01:52:42,200 | 我可以 |
| 01:52:42,200 | 01:52:43,200 | 那是你可以的 |
| 01:52:43,200 | 01:52:45,200 | 我們不能這樣決定 |
| 01:52:45,200 | 01:52:47,200 | 那你真的會造成偽陽性的問題 |
| 01:52:47,200 | 01:52:48,200 | 你們兩個是無辜的 |
| 01:52:48,200 | 01:52:50,200 | 沒有啦所以這是周美中次長 |
| 01:52:50,200 | 01:52:51,200 | 所以我的意思 |
| 01:52:51,200 | 01:52:53,200 | 你跟他說的那樣子的前提不對 |
| 01:52:53,200 | 01:52:55,200 | 人家在吸毒我們過去 |
| 01:52:55,200 | 01:52:58,200 | 然後吸那個空氣我頭髮就會有毒嗎 |
| 01:52:58,200 | 01:52:59,200 | 不會啦 |
| 01:52:59,200 | 01:53:00,200 | 不是啦我在局 |
| 01:53:00,200 | 01:53:01,200 | No no no no |
| 01:53:01,200 | 01:53:02,200 | 不要我跟你講 |
| 01:53:02,200 | 01:53:03,200 | 我在講的是說 |
| 01:53:03,200 | 01:53:06,200 | 會受到環境污染的問題 |
| 01:53:06,200 | 01:53:08,200 | 你如果去多看一點 |
| 01:53:08,200 | 01:53:11,200 | 這一次法務部跟學者專家 |
| 01:53:11,200 | 01:53:13,200 | 都提出來這些疑慮 |
| 01:53:13,200 | 01:53:15,200 | 連實驗室都會有問題 |
| 01:53:15,200 | 01:53:16,200 | 是是沒有 |
| 01:53:16,200 | 01:53:17,200 | 重點在哪裡你知道嗎 |
| 01:53:17,200 | 01:53:21,200 | 重點是我們要不要賦予行政部門 |
| 01:53:21,200 | 01:53:25,200 | 跟司法部門同樣的全縣的問題 |
| 01:53:25,200 | 01:53:27,200 | 現在 |
| 01:53:27,200 | 01:53:28,200 | 我要講 |
| 01:53:28,200 | 01:53:29,200 | 你聽我意思嗎 |
| 01:53:29,200 | 01:53:30,200 | 我知道 |
| 01:53:30,200 | 01:53:31,200 | 我們現在不是在刑事偵查 |
| 01:53:31,200 | 01:53:32,200 | 我現在要講的是 |
| 01:53:32,200 | 01:53:36,200 | 只要是強制檢驗的這個手段 |
| 01:53:36,200 | 01:53:39,200 | 它本身就是會有侵害人權的問題 |
| 01:53:39,200 | 01:53:40,200 | 當然 |
| 01:53:40,200 | 01:53:42,200 | 這個絕對不是說讓大家自主 |
| 01:53:42,200 | 01:53:44,200 | 你要去驗尿去接受托制 |
| 01:53:44,200 | 01:53:46,200 | 它就是個強制檢驗 |
| 01:53:46,200 | 01:53:47,200 | 是啦 |
| 01:53:47,200 | 01:53:49,200 | 所以一定都會侵害到人權 |
| 01:53:49,200 | 01:53:52,200 | 但是問題是輕度干擾 |
| 01:53:52,200 | 01:53:55,200 | 中度干擾或者重度干擾 |
| 01:53:55,200 | 01:53:56,200 | 它本來就是會有 |
| 01:53:56,200 | 01:53:59,200 | 我們常常在講的比例原則的問題 |
| 01:53:59,200 | 01:54:00,200 | 看你要採取哪一項 |
| 01:54:00,200 | 01:54:02,200 | 這就是我們現在對於比例原則的看法不同 |
| 01:54:02,200 | 01:54:05,200 | 我剛剛還看了就是經濟部 |
| 01:54:05,200 | 01:54:07,200 | 他們自己頒訂的特定人員 |
| 01:54:07,200 | 01:54:09,200 | 尿液採驗作業要點 |
| 01:54:09,200 | 01:54:12,200 | 大家仔細去看看那個作業要點 |
| 01:54:12,200 | 01:54:13,200 | 如果說當第一個 |
| 01:54:13,200 | 01:54:15,200 | 他是採不定期的一個抽檢 |
| 01:54:15,200 | 01:54:17,200 | 他有不定期抽檢方式 |
| 01:54:17,200 | 01:54:19,200 | 或者說他有定期的話兩年 |
| 01:54:19,200 | 01:54:22,200 | 那麼如果說是今天當事人 |
| 01:54:22,200 | 01:54:26,200 | 他拒絕去做驗尿的時候 |
| 01:54:26,200 | 01:54:27,200 | 裡面還有講 |
| 01:54:27,200 | 01:54:30,200 | 這時候可以拘束當事人的這個身體自由 |
| 01:54:30,200 | 01:54:32,200 | 同時強制驗尿的時候 |
| 01:54:32,200 | 01:54:35,200 | 還說要特別注意受檢人的名譽及身體 |
| 01:54:35,200 | 01:54:37,200 | 所以他其實侵害名譽 |
| 01:54:37,200 | 01:54:41,200 | 侵害名譽跟身體的法醫程度是更高 |
| 01:54:41,200 | 01:54:43,200 | 那我現在要講就是說 |
| 01:54:43,200 | 01:54:45,200 | 如果大家一直在講 |
| 01:54:45,200 | 01:54:46,200 | 今天是檢驗毛髮 |
| 01:54:46,200 | 01:54:48,200 | 就會侵害人格權 |
| 01:54:48,200 | 01:54:50,200 | 侵害人的行動自由 |
| 01:54:50,200 | 01:54:53,200 | 那麼你做唾液的篩檢 |
| 01:54:53,200 | 01:54:57,200 | 跟尿液的篩檢何嘗不是 |
| 01:54:57,200 | 01:55:00,200 | 更何況今天他是一個行政管理的手段 |
| 01:55:00,200 | 01:55:02,200 | 我們已經也授權未來 |
| 01:55:02,200 | 01:55:03,200 | 就是相關的機關 |
| 01:55:03,200 | 01:55:05,200 | 他可以斟酌狀況 |
| 01:55:05,200 | 01:55:07,200 | 可以自己去定義相關的辦法 |
| 01:55:08,200 | 01:55:12,200 | 那現在法務部一再不斷的去阻擋 |
| 01:55:12,200 | 01:55:15,200 | 類似這個毛髮可以作為篩檢 |
| 01:55:15,200 | 01:55:18,200 | 我真的覺得說你們的想法非常的奇怪 |
| 01:55:18,200 | 01:55:20,200 | 這樣的話你們認為說 |
| 01:55:20,200 | 01:55:23,200 | 難道不會擔心會有更多的這個聰明 |
| 01:55:23,200 | 01:55:24,200 | 或者狡猾的公務員 |
| 01:55:24,200 | 01:55:28,200 | 他可能可以透過這個規避 |
| 01:55:28,200 | 01:55:31,200 | 尿液篩檢跟唾液篩檢這個方式 |
| 01:55:31,200 | 01:55:33,200 | 然後他反而他就有吸毒 |
| 01:55:33,200 | 01:55:35,200 | 我現在講的像是經濟部 |
| 01:55:35,200 | 01:55:36,200 | 他是什麼樣的員工 |
| 01:55:36,200 | 01:55:39,200 | 他特定人員他必須要接受篩檢 |
| 01:55:39,200 | 01:55:41,200 | 像是台電公司的發電書店 |
| 01:55:41,200 | 01:55:44,200 | 這個配電等等這些裝修的員工 |
| 01:55:44,200 | 01:55:46,200 | 中油公司各種運輸 |
| 01:55:46,200 | 01:55:48,200 | 供水供電的員工 |
| 01:55:48,200 | 01:55:51,200 | 還有各個機關這個駕駛人員等等 |
| 01:55:51,200 | 01:55:54,200 | 所以這些駕駛人員還有這些員工 |
| 01:55:54,200 | 01:55:56,200 | 基本上如果說你今天能夠用一個 |
| 01:55:56,200 | 01:55:58,200 | 其他的方式多一個選項 |
| 01:55:58,200 | 01:56:00,200 | 讓他們可以去接受篩檢 |
| 01:56:00,200 | 01:56:02,200 | 而且也可以確保他們過去 |
| 01:56:02,200 | 01:56:04,200 | 確實可能在半年一年裡面 |
| 01:56:04,200 | 01:56:07,200 | 從來沒有吸毒的這樣的情況 |
| 01:56:07,200 | 01:56:08,200 | 這不是更好嗎 |
| 01:56:08,200 | 01:56:13,200 | 未來他就不見得一定要去接受抽檢 |
| 01:56:14,200 | 01:56:17,200 | 所以法務部今天這些想法 |
| 01:56:17,200 | 01:56:18,200 | 我其實不太能接受 |
| 01:56:18,200 | 01:56:21,200 | 我們是不是先釐清一下 |
| 01:56:21,200 | 01:56:25,200 | 就是你要發動強制處分 |
| 01:56:25,200 | 01:56:27,200 | 除了司法機關 |
| 01:56:27,200 | 01:56:30,200 | 行政部門怎麼會可以有強制處分 |
| 01:56:30,200 | 01:56:33,200 | 那你要有任何強制處分 |
| 01:56:33,200 | 01:56:34,200 | 涉及到強制處分的 |
| 01:56:34,200 | 01:56:36,200 | 這當然要法律保留 |
| 01:56:36,200 | 01:56:39,200 | 你要對人身的侵犯的話 |
| 01:56:39,200 | 01:56:42,200 | 有輕度、有重度、有重度 |
| 01:56:42,200 | 01:56:46,200 | 33條以小地不採 |
| 01:56:46,200 | 01:56:48,200 | 那剛好是有立法的授權 |
| 01:56:48,200 | 01:56:50,200 | 否則針對行政部門 |
| 01:56:50,200 | 01:56:54,200 | 行政部門要去干擾到一般民眾 |
| 01:56:54,200 | 01:56:58,200 | 除非你在行政機關你採以前那種特別權力關係 |
| 01:56:58,200 | 01:57:00,200 | 否則你說我做部長 |
| 01:57:00,200 | 01:57:02,200 | 我做你們的長官 |
| 01:57:02,200 | 01:57:05,200 | 我就有辦法要求我底下的員工 |
| 01:57:05,200 | 01:57:06,200 | 我要跟你做什麼做什麼 |
| 01:57:06,200 | 01:57:07,200 | 門都沒有 |
| 01:57:07,200 | 01:57:09,200 | 我如果是員工的話 |
| 01:57:09,200 | 01:57:10,200 | 我會跟你講說我根本就沒犯罪 |
| 01:57:10,200 | 01:57:13,200 | 就是因為我們有法律授權 |
| 01:57:13,200 | 01:57:15,200 | 現在是因為沒有法律授權 |
| 01:57:15,200 | 01:57:17,200 | 所以不可以做毛髮採驗 |
| 01:57:17,200 | 01:57:18,200 | 所以我的意思是 |
| 01:57:18,200 | 01:57:19,200 | 同委員來了 |
| 01:57:19,200 | 01:57:20,200 | 問題來了 |
| 01:57:20,200 | 01:57:24,200 | 就是說本來33條連行政部門都不行的 |
| 01:57:24,200 | 01:57:26,200 | 那已經授權到你可以用 |
| 01:57:26,200 | 01:57:30,200 | 我們現在原條文的部分是妙裔 |
| 01:57:30,200 | 01:57:36,200 | 那我們現在要再把它多一個武器給行政部門 |
| 01:57:36,200 | 01:57:38,200 | 是多再給它一個叫做 |
| 01:57:42,200 | 01:57:43,200 | 拖曳 |
| 01:57:43,200 | 01:57:44,200 | 妙裔要多一個拖曳 |
| 01:57:44,200 | 01:57:46,200 | 你的意思是說不要緊 |
| 01:57:46,200 | 01:57:48,200 | 行政部門再多一個好衣服 |
| 01:57:48,200 | 01:57:50,200 | 毛髮 |
| 01:57:50,200 | 01:57:54,200 | 理論上33條我認為都不應該有的 |
| 01:57:54,200 | 01:57:55,200 | 都不應該有的 |
| 01:57:55,200 | 01:57:57,200 | 因為你不是司法部門 |
| 01:57:57,200 | 01:57:59,200 | 你現在已經給它一個了 |
| 01:57:59,200 | 01:58:02,200 | 我們法務部都認為說 |
| 01:58:02,200 | 01:58:04,200 | 折衷折衷你再給我一個就好了 |
| 01:58:04,200 | 01:58:05,200 | 我就很開心了 |
| 01:58:05,200 | 01:58:07,200 | 你不是在這裡開綠燈 |
| 01:58:07,200 | 01:58:08,200 | 全部給法務部 |
| 01:58:08,200 | 01:58:10,200 | 沒有我們沒有開綠燈 |
| 01:58:10,200 | 01:58:11,200 | 我也沒有說要給你 |
| 01:58:11,200 | 01:58:14,200 | 我只是說多增加一個毛髮 |
| 01:58:14,200 | 01:58:16,200 | 那基本上因為我就說 |
| 01:58:16,200 | 01:58:19,200 | 因為現在如果說台灣不是毒價很嚴重 |
| 01:58:19,200 | 01:58:21,200 | 不是毒品氾濫 |
| 01:58:21,200 | 01:58:24,200 | 基本上我非常同意剛剛周偉的看法 |
| 01:58:24,200 | 01:58:26,200 | 33條根本就應該刪掉 |
| 01:58:26,200 | 01:58:28,200 | 不應該給行政機關這麼大的權利 |
| 01:58:28,200 | 01:58:32,200 | 可是就是因為我們現在毒品氾濫的問題很嚴重 |
| 01:58:32,200 | 01:58:35,200 | 而且還不僅僅是造成犯罪 |
| 01:58:35,200 | 01:58:37,200 | 更重要的是說有很多執行 |
| 01:58:37,200 | 01:58:42,200 | 跟我們公眾安全有關的業務的這些人員 |
| 01:58:42,200 | 01:58:46,200 | 我們當然要更加強相關的管理 |
| 01:58:46,200 | 01:58:50,200 | 所以我完全是基於一個這個好善意 |
| 01:58:50,200 | 01:58:53,200 | 來 到波特來 教育部有來了嗎 |
| 01:58:53,200 | 01:58:56,200 | 來聽聽看教育部的看法好不好 |
| 01:58:59,200 | 01:59:01,200 | 是 聽聽看你們的看法 |
| 01:59:01,200 | 01:59:03,200 | 是針對唾液快篩那一個部分 |
| 01:59:03,200 | 01:59:05,200 | 他們說要多毛髮 你們認為呢 |
| 01:59:05,200 | 01:59:10,200 | 唾液當然現在就認為說多給你們一個武器 |
| 01:59:10,200 | 01:59:13,200 | 覺得說原來本來只要鳥藝 |
| 01:59:13,200 | 01:59:16,200 | 我們再多一個唾液可能會比較快 |
| 01:59:16,200 | 01:59:19,200 | 如果再多一個給行政部門給教育部 |
| 01:59:19,200 | 01:59:22,200 | 覺得說給你們學校裡面的人 |
| 01:59:22,200 | 01:59:24,200 | 可以針對毛髮你們的看法呢 |
| 01:59:24,200 | 01:59:27,200 | 因為毛髮這一塊我們之前沒有討論過 |
| 01:59:27,200 | 01:59:29,200 | 所以針對毛髮這一塊 |
| 01:59:29,200 | 01:59:31,200 | 他到底要怎麼樣去做一個篩檢 |
| 01:59:31,200 | 01:59:35,200 | 然後他一些相關的檢驗的工具 |
| 01:59:35,200 | 01:59:37,200 | 還有需要注意的事項部分 |
| 01:59:37,200 | 01:59:41,200 | 這個部分我們可能要再跟相關的專業單位 |
| 01:59:41,200 | 01:59:43,200 | 再做一個討論才能知道 |
| 01:59:43,200 | 01:59:45,200 | 他在實務上的可行性是如何 |
| 01:59:45,200 | 01:59:47,200 | 但是因為我們知道像唾液塊 |
| 01:59:47,200 | 01:59:49,200 | 唾液塊他的準確度是很高 |
| 01:59:49,200 | 01:59:50,200 | 所以唾液塊在這個部分 |
| 01:59:50,200 | 01:59:54,200 | 我們是比較希望在校園可以先來做實施這樣子 |
| 01:59:54,200 | 01:59:55,200 | OK |
| 01:59:55,200 | 01:59:56,200 | 我們常常 |
| 01:59:56,200 | 01:59:59,200 | 司法常常是最嚴謹的喔 |
| 01:59:59,200 | 02:00:01,200 | 我看司法機關經過偵查 |
| 02:00:01,200 | 02:00:04,200 | 經過一審審辦二審三審出來 |
| 02:00:04,200 | 02:00:06,200 | 然後大家在那裡大喊司法不公 |
| 02:00:06,200 | 02:00:10,200 | 你現在行政部門多給他這麼多的一個武器 |
| 02:00:10,200 | 02:00:12,200 | 到時候你沒完沒了我跟你講 |
| 02:00:12,200 | 02:00:14,200 | 我就是站在我沒有特別的意見 |
| 02:00:14,200 | 02:00:18,200 | 我只是說現在既然是折衷到多給一個 |
| 02:00:18,200 | 02:00:20,200 | 多給了一個唾液 |
| 02:00:20,200 | 02:00:24,200 | 我們又要再開放一項給行政部門 |
| 02:00:24,200 | 02:00:26,200 | 再給他毛髮 |
| 02:00:26,200 | 02:00:27,200 | 是 |
| 02:00:27,200 | 02:00:32,200 | 因為委員我們這不是在包庇犯罪 |
| 02:00:32,200 | 02:00:34,200 | 獨家他也是犯罪 |
| 02:00:34,200 | 02:00:37,200 | 那如果你啟動刑事偵查的話 |
| 02:00:37,200 | 02:00:38,200 | 這一些本來就可以 |
| 02:00:38,200 | 02:00:42,200 | 那我們現在講的是出院給他更快 |
| 02:00:42,200 | 02:00:44,200 | 更快你要不要到毛髮 |
| 02:00:44,200 | 02:00:47,200 | 除非你認為說法務部你黑白丁 |
| 02:00:47,200 | 02:00:50,200 | 毛髮就比你的唾液的侵害性更加低 |
| 02:00:50,200 | 02:00:51,200 | 更加快 |
| 02:00:51,200 | 02:00:52,200 | 更加及時 |
| 02:00:52,200 | 02:00:53,200 | 你為什麼不採毛髮 |
| 02:00:53,200 | 02:00:54,200 | 為什麼去採唾液 |
| 02:00:54,200 | 02:00:56,200 | 那這樣來講又通喔 |
| 02:00:56,200 | 02:00:58,200 | 可是你如果說因為獨家 |
| 02:00:58,200 | 02:01:01,200 | 讓他知道這個人到底有沒有犯法 |
| 02:01:01,200 | 02:01:03,200 | 那個部分屬於犯罪刑事偵查 |
| 02:01:03,200 | 02:01:06,200 | 他在他啟動出院完以後 |
| 02:01:06,200 | 02:01:08,200 | 到時候也要再復原一次 |
| 02:01:08,200 | 02:01:11,200 | 有更嚴格的一個程序 |
| 02:01:11,200 | 02:01:13,200 | 我反而會覺得 |
| 02:01:13,200 | 02:01:15,200 | 跟打擊犯罪 |
| 02:01:15,200 | 02:01:17,200 | 是這個地方無關的 |
| 02:01:17,200 | 02:01:20,200 | 這部分是行政部門 |
| 02:01:20,200 | 02:01:23,200 | 稍微我再補充一個 |
| 02:01:23,200 | 02:01:25,200 | 剛剛因為教育部的這個同仁 |
| 02:01:25,200 | 02:01:27,200 | 他沒有講到就是說 |
| 02:01:27,200 | 02:01:29,200 | 到底什麼樣的人員會被 |
| 02:01:29,200 | 02:01:31,200 | 會被做尿液檢查 |
| 02:01:31,200 | 02:01:34,200 | 就是因為這個毒品危害法律條例裡面 |
| 02:01:34,200 | 02:01:38,200 | 會必須要強制要去做尿液檢查的 |
| 02:01:38,200 | 02:01:40,200 | 他們現在教育部裡面 |
| 02:01:40,200 | 02:01:42,200 | 基本上要做尿液檢查的對象 |
| 02:01:42,200 | 02:01:44,200 | 包含曾經違反 |
| 02:01:44,200 | 02:01:47,200 | 毒為條例行為的學生 |
| 02:01:47,200 | 02:01:50,200 | 還有曾經有休學中錯生 |
| 02:01:50,200 | 02:01:52,200 | 這個可能也會要求 |
| 02:01:52,200 | 02:01:54,200 | 要去做尿液篩檢 |
| 02:01:54,200 | 02:01:56,200 | 還有有事實族認為 |
| 02:01:56,200 | 02:01:58,200 | 這個學生他是適用毒品嫌疑的 |
| 02:01:58,200 | 02:02:00,200 | 另外一個很重要的 |
| 02:02:00,200 | 02:02:04,200 | 就是針對學校裡面的駕駛人員 |
| 02:02:04,200 | 02:02:06,200 | 也要做這個尿液的篩檢 |
| 02:02:06,200 | 02:02:07,200 | 因為這是怕萬一 |
| 02:02:07,200 | 02:02:09,200 | 這駕駛他如果吸毒 |
| 02:02:09,200 | 02:02:12,200 | 當然會有這個問題 |
| 02:02:12,200 | 02:02:14,200 | 那麼我現在要講的就是 |
| 02:02:14,200 | 02:02:15,200 | 多一個毛髮 |
| 02:02:15,200 | 02:02:17,200 | 它不過就是多一個 |
| 02:02:17,200 | 02:02:20,200 | 讓主管機關它可以運用去檢查 |
| 02:02:20,200 | 02:02:24,200 | 這相關的人員或是學生有沒有吸毒 |
| 02:02:25,200 | 02:02:26,200 | 而且我也沒有講說 |
| 02:02:26,200 | 02:02:28,200 | 在第一次就要檢… |
| 02:02:28,200 | 02:02:29,200 | 就一定要用毛髮測試 |
| 02:02:29,200 | 02:02:31,200 | 它可以像是剛剛周偉講 |
| 02:02:31,200 | 02:02:33,200 | 它可以作為復驗 |
| 02:02:33,200 | 02:02:34,200 | 第二次 |
| 02:02:34,200 | 02:02:36,200 | 但是在選擇 |
| 02:02:36,200 | 02:02:39,200 | 要用什麼樣的採證的方式的時候 |
| 02:02:39,200 | 02:02:42,200 | 至少可以讓行政機關它多一個方式 |
| 02:02:42,200 | 02:02:44,200 | 這我認為這是非常合理的 |
| 02:02:44,200 | 02:02:45,200 | 我再次強調 |
| 02:02:45,200 | 02:02:47,200 | 今天我們不要把這個行政管理手段 |
| 02:02:47,200 | 02:02:48,200 | 又扯遠了 |
| 02:02:48,200 | 02:02:51,200 | 又跟司法的這個對爭議有關係 |
| 02:02:51,200 | 02:02:56,200 | 我認為你這樣給行政部門太大的權限了 |
| 02:02:56,200 | 02:02:58,200 | 不 其實是正在沒有 |
| 02:02:58,200 | 02:03:00,200 | 譬如說這學校裡面我是學生 |
| 02:03:00,200 | 02:03:02,200 | 我比較不良學生 |
| 02:03:02,200 | 02:03:03,200 | 我前面… |
| 02:03:03,200 | 02:03:05,200 | 我們這裡叫做不良組 |
| 02:03:05,200 | 02:03:06,200 | 我這裡前面都壞子 |
| 02:03:06,200 | 02:03:08,200 | 但是我們每天都不良 |
| 02:03:08,200 | 02:03:10,200 | 你不能當教官的人 |
| 02:03:10,200 | 02:03:11,200 | 當老師的人 |
| 02:03:11,200 | 02:03:13,200 | 當學務處的人 |
| 02:03:13,200 | 02:03:14,200 | 看我們幾個 |
| 02:03:14,200 | 02:03:15,200 | 來 我們帶兩支來檢驗 |
| 02:03:15,200 | 02:03:17,200 | 我們如果沒有呢 |
| 02:03:17,200 | 02:03:18,200 | 沒有 周偉 |
| 02:03:18,200 | 02:03:19,200 | 你懂我意思嗎 |
| 02:03:19,200 | 02:03:20,200 | 也就是說 |
| 02:03:20,200 | 02:03:24,200 | 我們幾個如果說我們有去犯法 |
| 02:03:24,200 | 02:03:25,200 | 刑事犯罪 |
| 02:03:25,200 | 02:03:27,200 | 那個是刑事偵查的問題 |
| 02:03:27,200 | 02:03:29,200 | 那不只是拿這個力量 |
| 02:03:29,200 | 02:03:30,200 | 那要逮捕 |
| 02:03:30,200 | 02:03:32,200 | 上少年法庭 |
| 02:03:32,200 | 02:03:33,200 | 這不是 |
| 02:03:33,200 | 02:03:37,200 | 你賦予學校就變成給他等同 |
| 02:03:37,200 | 02:03:41,200 | 司法偵查跟偵查機關同樣的武器 |
| 02:03:42,200 | 02:03:43,200 | 這樣說好了 |
| 02:03:43,200 | 02:03:45,200 | 我比較保留 |
| 02:03:45,200 | 02:03:48,200 | 我基本上就是說你只要是對於 |
| 02:03:48,200 | 02:03:52,200 | 所有任何的特定人員去做檢查 |
| 02:03:52,200 | 02:03:54,200 | 只要是沒有這個司法 |
| 02:03:54,200 | 02:03:56,200 | 沒有符合法官保留的話 |
| 02:03:56,200 | 02:03:57,200 | 他都會有這樣的疑慮 |
| 02:03:57,200 | 02:03:59,200 | 都會有這樣的疑慮 |
| 02:03:59,200 | 02:04:01,200 | 今天我在學校裡面開 |
| 02:04:01,200 | 02:04:03,200 | 開學生的校車駕駛 |
| 02:04:03,200 | 02:04:06,200 | 我為什麼要接受強制的尿液檢查 |
| 02:04:06,200 | 02:04:08,200 | 那不是也是懷疑我是吸毒 |
| 02:04:08,200 | 02:04:10,200 | 這也是對我人格的名譽 |
| 02:04:10,200 | 02:04:12,200 | 有很大的侵害 |
| 02:04:12,200 | 02:04:13,200 | 但是我就想說 |
| 02:04:13,200 | 02:04:15,200 | 因為它是一個行政管理的手段 |
| 02:04:15,200 | 02:04:16,200 | 這是沒有辦法 |
| 02:04:16,200 | 02:04:19,200 | 因為我們希望就是能夠維護 |
| 02:04:19,200 | 02:04:20,200 | 更大的公共安全 |
| 02:04:20,200 | 02:04:21,200 | 維護公義 |
| 02:04:21,200 | 02:04:23,200 | 那對於學生來講也是一樣 |
| 02:04:23,200 | 02:04:25,200 | 所以為什麼教育部他說 |
| 02:04:25,200 | 02:04:26,200 | 他不是犯犯的 |
| 02:04:26,200 | 02:04:28,200 | 所有的學生他都要去檢查 |
| 02:04:28,200 | 02:04:30,200 | 就是手段的問題 |
| 02:04:30,200 | 02:04:32,200 | 手段要不要多那麼多 |
| 02:04:32,200 | 02:04:34,200 | 要不要比例原則的問題 |
| 02:04:34,200 | 02:04:37,200 | 我們講的意見幾乎都一樣 |
| 02:04:37,200 | 02:04:40,200 | 只是說我們真正的爭執是在於說 |
| 02:04:40,200 | 02:04:42,200 | 第一個要不要給他這麼多的武器 |
| 02:04:42,200 | 02:04:45,200 | 第二個然後這一個 |
| 02:04:45,200 | 02:04:49,200 | 會不會符合比例原則的問題 |
| 02:04:49,200 | 02:04:53,200 | 我沒有定見就是說多幾個 |
| 02:04:53,200 | 02:04:55,200 | 你如果說給司法機關 |
| 02:04:55,200 | 02:04:58,200 | 司法機關要窮盡一切辦法 |
| 02:04:58,200 | 02:05:00,200 | 除惡誤進打擊犯罪 |
| 02:05:00,200 | 02:05:02,200 | 它任何的方式我都贊成 |
| 02:05:02,200 | 02:05:04,200 | 但問題那叫司法機關可以 |
| 02:05:04,200 | 02:05:06,200 | 可是行政部門 |
| 02:05:06,200 | 02:05:08,200 | 它到底有沒有這樣的權力 |
| 02:05:08,200 | 02:05:10,200 | 回到那個原點 |
| 02:05:10,200 | 02:05:12,200 | 如果說你認為行政外沒有權力的話 |
| 02:05:12,200 | 02:05:15,200 | 連尿疫的篩檢跟唾液的篩檢 |
| 02:05:15,200 | 02:05:17,200 | 都不應該有 |
| 02:05:17,200 | 02:05:19,200 | 這都是展現行政權 |
| 02:05:19,200 | 02:05:21,200 | 常識權力的一個手段 |
| 02:05:21,200 | 02:05:23,200 | 所以歐委員我剛剛的前提就是說 |
| 02:05:23,200 | 02:05:25,200 | 如果不是為了公義的話 |
| 02:05:25,200 | 02:05:27,200 | 33條都不應該存在 |
| 02:05:27,200 | 02:05:29,200 | 對所以我們今天回到 |
| 02:05:29,200 | 02:05:31,200 | 除非你認為這些機關都特別權力關係 |
| 02:05:31,200 | 02:05:33,200 | 其實我會認為我會支持有33條的 |
| 02:05:33,200 | 02:05:37,200 | 因為我確實認為毒品的氾濫問題很嚴重 |
| 02:05:37,200 | 02:05:40,200 | 我甚至認為可以給主管機關多幾個 |
| 02:05:40,200 | 02:05:43,200 | 去檢查毒品的手段包含減指甲 |
| 02:05:43,200 | 02:05:46,200 | 我今天其實本來想提個修正建議的 |
| 02:05:46,200 | 02:05:47,200 | 除了毛髮之外 |
| 02:05:47,200 | 02:05:51,200 | 甚至連指甲都可以作為檢驗的方式 |
| 02:05:52,200 | 02:05:55,200 | 因為現在在我們上次去拜訪 |
| 02:05:55,200 | 02:05:56,200 | 科學建設中心的時候 |
| 02:05:56,200 | 02:05:58,200 | 他們基本上現在指甲 |
| 02:05:58,200 | 02:06:00,200 | 剪一小段指甲就可以去驗出 |
| 02:06:00,200 | 02:06:01,200 | 有沒有毒品了 |
| 02:06:01,200 | 02:06:04,200 | 沒有啦歐委員方法都對 |
| 02:06:04,200 | 02:06:06,200 | 你講的方法都對 |
| 02:06:06,200 | 02:06:09,200 | 我們現在講的是說給司法機關 |
| 02:06:09,200 | 02:06:11,200 | 或者給行政部門的問題 |
| 02:06:11,200 | 02:06:13,200 | 你給司法機關的所有的方法都可以 |
| 02:06:13,200 | 02:06:15,200 | 所有的方法都願意接受 |
| 02:06:15,200 | 02:06:18,200 | 因為行政管理手段它是個預防手段 |
| 02:06:18,200 | 02:06:21,200 | 真正發生了毒價車禍 |
| 02:06:21,200 | 02:06:22,200 | 然後造成人員傷亡 |
| 02:06:22,200 | 02:06:26,200 | 這時候把它用司法犯罪行為去起訴 |
| 02:06:26,200 | 02:06:28,200 | 然後再來蒐證 |
| 02:06:28,200 | 02:06:30,200 | 我覺得那都是很後端的事 |
| 02:06:30,200 | 02:06:32,200 | 我跟莊昭偉 |
| 02:06:32,200 | 02:06:34,200 | 其實我想我們的理念都是一樣的 |
| 02:06:34,200 | 02:06:36,200 | 我今天只是說比較是站在 |
| 02:06:36,200 | 02:06:38,200 | 就是說以當前現階段 |
| 02:06:38,200 | 02:06:41,200 | 我們台灣社會真的毒品問題很嚴重 |
| 02:06:41,200 | 02:06:43,200 | 我們甚至不敢保證 |
| 02:06:43,200 | 02:06:45,200 | 是不是只有那個不良青少年 |
| 02:06:45,200 | 02:06:47,200 | 才有這個吸毒的問題 |
| 02:06:47,200 | 02:06:50,200 | 很多的年長者 |
| 02:06:50,200 | 02:06:52,200 | 成年人也會有這樣的問題 |
| 02:06:52,200 | 02:06:56,200 | 而他們可能是在我們公共的機關裡面服務 |
| 02:06:56,200 | 02:07:00,200 | 今天不問就是多加一個毛法 |
| 02:07:00,200 | 02:07:02,200 | 而且我們裡面有強調 |
| 02:07:02,200 | 02:07:06,200 | 未來的實施辦法是由行政院各部門自己去訂定 |
| 02:07:06,200 | 02:07:09,200 | 他們可以去規範 |
| 02:07:09,200 | 02:07:13,200 | 到底我現在要採取什麼樣的檢驗手段 |
| 02:07:13,200 | 02:07:14,200 | 如果說前面兩個檢驗手段 |
| 02:07:14,200 | 02:07:16,200 | 看起來好像不可行 |
| 02:07:16,200 | 02:07:18,200 | 或是說發現敵人有漏洞的時候 |
| 02:07:18,200 | 02:07:20,200 | 我至少還有第三個手段 |
| 02:07:20,200 | 02:07:23,200 | 難道我們要每一次為了這樣的事情 |
| 02:07:23,200 | 02:07:26,200 | 然後不斷的去增加補氣嗎 |
| 02:07:26,200 | 02:07:27,200 | 是啦 翁朝偉你這個說法 |
| 02:07:27,200 | 02:07:29,200 | 說到最後已經是進入到 |
| 02:07:29,200 | 02:07:32,200 | 他到底有沒有犯罪的問題 |
| 02:07:32,200 | 02:07:34,200 | 第一個不行 第二個不行 |
| 02:07:34,200 | 02:07:36,200 | 已經給你第一個也不行 第二個也不行了 |
| 02:07:36,200 | 02:07:39,200 | 就是代表你行政部門要閉嘴了 |
| 02:07:39,200 | 02:07:40,200 | 你不能要追殺人家 |
| 02:07:40,200 | 02:07:43,200 | 要追殺給司法機關去看他有沒有犯罪 |
| 02:07:43,200 | 02:07:44,200 | 來 陳昭偉委員 |
| 02:07:44,200 | 02:07:47,200 | 我再接著來講就讓大家再想想看 |
| 02:07:47,200 | 02:07:49,200 | 因為譬如說學校 |
| 02:07:49,200 | 02:07:50,200 | 如果說監測器 |
| 02:07:50,200 | 02:07:52,200 | 假設我們看到有人 |
| 02:07:52,200 | 02:07:54,200 | 就是學生不管或是行政人員 |
| 02:07:54,200 | 02:07:56,200 | 他們做了這個吸毒的 |
| 02:07:56,200 | 02:07:58,200 | 疑似吸毒的動作 |
| 02:07:58,200 | 02:08:00,200 | 那等到上班以後 |
| 02:08:00,200 | 02:08:02,200 | 或放完假以後 |
| 02:08:02,200 | 02:08:03,200 | 有人去看那個monitor |
| 02:08:03,200 | 02:08:05,200 | 發現有這件事情 |
| 02:08:05,200 | 02:08:07,200 | 那我們要去找出這樣的人的時候 |
| 02:08:07,200 | 02:08:10,200 | 這個時候其實兩個方法都已經過去了 |
| 02:08:10,200 | 02:08:11,200 | 尿液 |
| 02:08:11,200 | 02:08:14,200 | 這個時候就給警察 |
| 02:08:14,200 | 02:08:16,200 | 就到司法機關去 |
| 02:08:16,200 | 02:08:18,200 | 還在疑似的地方 |
| 02:08:18,200 | 02:08:19,200 | 所以我在想說說 |
| 02:08:19,200 | 02:08:24,200 | 因為時間到尿液大概當天八成就不見了 |
| 02:08:24,200 | 02:08:27,200 | 然後唾液大概二到五個小時內 |
| 02:08:27,200 | 02:08:29,200 | 所以我剛剛還說涉及他檢驗能力 |
| 02:08:29,200 | 02:08:31,200 | 他們一直敗摔 一直跑 |
| 02:08:31,200 | 02:08:33,200 | 但是一直跑是他還測得出來嗎 |
| 02:08:33,200 | 02:08:34,200 | 那再來如果我剛剛就舉例 |
| 02:08:34,200 | 02:08:36,200 | 放個年文駕過去了 |
| 02:08:36,200 | 02:08:37,200 | 但是這個吸毒 |
| 02:08:37,200 | 02:08:38,200 | 假設有在做吸毒 |
| 02:08:38,200 | 02:08:39,200 | 他不會立刻消失 |
| 02:08:39,200 | 02:08:40,200 | 那這個情況下 |
| 02:08:40,200 | 02:08:42,200 | 我們如果不保留這個方法 |
| 02:08:42,200 | 02:08:44,200 | 這個方法還沒有到 |
| 02:08:44,200 | 02:08:45,200 | 我們是在疑似 |
| 02:08:45,200 | 02:08:47,200 | 而且這個毛髮 |
| 02:08:47,200 | 02:08:48,200 | 另外一個方法就是說 |
| 02:08:48,200 | 02:08:51,200 | 因為我在處理一些相關的管理 |
| 02:08:51,200 | 02:08:53,200 | 不管健保用藥的管理 |
| 02:08:53,200 | 02:08:54,200 | 另外一個方法 |
| 02:08:54,200 | 02:08:55,200 | 當然我也要尊重 |
| 02:08:55,200 | 02:08:57,200 | 那個翁委員是不是可以接受 |
| 02:08:57,200 | 02:08:59,200 | 就是說你第一線的方法 |
| 02:08:59,200 | 02:09:01,200 | 就是譬如說唾液跟尿液 |
| 02:09:01,200 | 02:09:03,200 | 因為他們是時間很有限 |
| 02:09:03,200 | 02:09:05,200 | 那第二線的方法 |
| 02:09:05,200 | 02:09:06,200 | 當這個都沒有 |
| 02:09:06,200 | 02:09:09,200 | 可是你覺得他的行為還是有疑慮 |
| 02:09:09,200 | 02:09:11,200 | 那你這個方法還是要背著 |
| 02:09:11,200 | 02:09:13,200 | 有疑慮怎麼會是行政部門呢 |
| 02:09:13,200 | 02:09:17,200 | 行政部門管那麼多鳥事幹什麼呢 |
| 02:09:17,200 | 02:09:18,200 | 我剛剛還提議學生 |
| 02:09:18,200 | 02:09:19,200 | 已經過了一個假期 |
| 02:09:19,200 | 02:09:20,200 | 但是我想說一下 |
| 02:09:20,200 | 02:09:21,200 | 我們這次的排行程 |
| 02:09:21,200 | 02:09:23,200 | 都讓你給我們標籤化 |
| 02:09:23,200 | 02:09:24,200 | 問題是現在 |
| 02:09:24,200 | 02:09:26,200 | 整個作業要點裡面就有講 |
| 02:09:26,200 | 02:09:27,200 | 大家懷疑某個學生 |
| 02:09:27,200 | 02:09:29,200 | 他的行為有多糞爛的時候 |
| 02:09:29,200 | 02:09:30,200 | 就可以去做檢驗 |
| 02:09:30,200 | 02:09:32,200 | 這是他們現在自己的 |
| 02:09:32,200 | 02:09:34,200 | 作業要點裡面就講的 |
| 02:09:34,200 | 02:09:36,200 | 對 所以他並不是講說 |
| 02:09:36,200 | 02:09:37,200 | 大家都很正常 |
| 02:09:37,200 | 02:09:38,200 | 看起來都沒問題 |
| 02:09:38,200 | 02:09:40,200 | 然後我就來做篩檢 |
| 02:09:40,200 | 02:09:41,200 | 除此之外 |
| 02:09:41,200 | 02:09:43,200 | 還有針對看到這個駕駛 |
| 02:09:43,200 | 02:09:45,200 | 感覺到他有點問題 |
| 02:09:45,200 | 02:09:47,200 | 然後就要去做篩檢 |
| 02:09:47,200 | 02:09:49,200 | 所以我剛剛講就是說 |
| 02:09:49,200 | 02:09:51,200 | 我們其實今天訂33條 |
| 02:09:51,200 | 02:09:54,200 | 是說他除了尿液、唾液 |
| 02:09:54,200 | 02:09:56,200 | 再加一個毛髮的檢測 |
| 02:09:56,200 | 02:09:58,200 | 然後所有的實施辦法 |
| 02:09:58,200 | 02:10:00,200 | 由行政院自己去訂 |
| 02:10:00,200 | 02:10:01,200 | 他也可以說好吧 |
| 02:10:01,200 | 02:10:02,200 | 那我第一線 |
| 02:10:02,200 | 02:10:05,200 | 我一開始我先用尿液、唾液 |
| 02:10:05,200 | 02:10:07,200 | 然後之後發現 |
| 02:10:07,200 | 02:10:08,200 | 還是不是很妥當 |
| 02:10:08,200 | 02:10:09,200 | 毛髮要幾天 |
| 02:10:09,200 | 02:10:11,200 | 市長 毛髮要幾天 |
| 02:10:12,200 | 02:10:14,200 | 幾天 你的鑑定結果 |
| 02:10:14,200 | 02:10:15,200 | 你說鑑定結果 |
| 02:10:15,200 | 02:10:17,200 | 毛髮要幾天 脫衣錠要快一點嗎 |
| 02:10:17,200 | 02:10:18,200 | 毛髮一定超過一個月以上 |
| 02:10:18,200 | 02:10:19,200 | 那我這邊補充一下 |
| 02:10:19,200 | 02:10:20,200 | 沒有 超過一個月 |
| 02:10:20,200 | 02:10:21,200 | 那委員報告 |
| 02:10:21,200 | 02:10:23,200 | 我這邊有一個調查局 |
| 02:10:23,200 | 02:10:25,200 | 毛髮檢體的標準 |
| 02:10:25,200 | 02:10:26,200 | 他必須要集 |
| 02:10:26,200 | 02:10:27,200 | 他不是一根一根採 |
| 02:10:27,200 | 02:10:32,200 | 他要集中在後顱頂頂部 |
| 02:10:32,200 | 02:10:33,200 | 而且要一束 |
| 02:10:33,200 | 02:10:34,200 | 要集中一束 |
| 02:10:34,200 | 02:10:37,200 | 這一束的直徑要達0.7公分 |
| 02:10:38,200 | 02:10:39,200 | 這個是他的 |
| 02:10:39,200 | 02:10:41,200 | 我剛剛看了一個這個 |
| 02:10:41,200 | 02:10:43,200 | 這一束我剛剛其實調查局 |
| 02:10:43,200 | 02:10:45,200 | 回報的結果大概要25根左右 |
| 02:10:45,200 | 02:10:46,200 | 市長 你說這樣的話 |
| 02:10:46,200 | 02:10:48,200 | 我覺得又真的是背離科學 |
| 02:10:48,200 | 02:10:50,200 | 你看你們有時候看到 |
| 02:10:50,200 | 02:10:51,200 | 有什麼殺人犯 |
| 02:10:51,200 | 02:10:53,200 | 然後屍體旁邊 |
| 02:10:53,200 | 02:10:54,200 | 只要一根根的 |
| 02:10:54,200 | 02:10:55,200 | 一點點的毛髮 |
| 02:10:55,200 | 02:10:56,200 | 都可以去檢驗 |
| 02:10:56,200 | 02:10:57,200 | 說到底他是 |
| 02:10:57,200 | 02:10:59,200 | 哪一個犯罪行為人有的 |
| 02:10:59,200 | 02:11:00,200 | 沒關係 委員 |
| 02:11:00,200 | 02:11:01,200 | 你現在要這樣一搓頭嗎 |
| 02:11:01,200 | 02:11:02,200 | 委員 |
| 02:11:02,200 | 02:11:04,200 | 那個立法院的發言 |
| 02:11:04,200 | 02:11:07,200 | 官員來這個都列入公報 |
| 02:11:07,200 | 02:11:09,200 | 我相信市長也不會亂講 |
| 02:11:09,200 | 02:11:11,200 | 你說有時候難免口誤會有 |
| 02:11:11,200 | 02:11:12,200 | 我看他那麼堅持 |
| 02:11:12,200 | 02:11:16,200 | 我們都對於這個政府官員 |
| 02:11:16,200 | 02:11:17,200 | 尤其是專業機關 |
| 02:11:17,200 | 02:11:19,200 | 我們表達尊重 |
| 02:11:19,200 | 02:11:21,200 | 但是這條 |
| 02:11:21,200 | 02:11:22,200 | 大家再考慮一下 |
| 02:11:22,200 | 02:11:24,200 | 我們不能賦予行政部門 |
| 02:11:24,200 | 02:11:27,200 | 行政部門等同是司法部門 |
| 02:11:27,200 | 02:11:30,200 | 說剛才這部分就當作 |
| 02:11:30,200 | 02:11:33,200 | 沒關係 叫行政部門來代行 |
| 02:11:33,200 | 02:11:34,200 | 這個偵查機關 |
| 02:11:34,200 | 02:11:36,200 | 或者司法部門的職權 |
| 02:11:36,200 | 02:11:38,200 | 這也怪怪的 |
| 02:11:38,200 | 02:11:39,200 | 我覺得 |
| 02:11:39,200 | 02:11:42,200 | 我的基因裡面告訴我 |
| 02:11:42,200 | 02:11:44,200 | 告訴我這個地方 |
| 02:11:44,200 | 02:11:46,200 | 不然的話我們這條是不是就先保留 |
| 02:11:46,200 | 02:11:47,200 | 好啦 這條先保留 |
| 02:11:47,200 | 02:11:49,200 | 這條已經拖了兩小時了 |
| 02:11:49,200 | 02:11:50,200 | 來 |
| 02:11:54,200 | 02:11:57,200 | 33條之一 |
| 02:11:57,200 | 02:12:00,200 | 這樣就配合33條 |
| 02:12:00,200 | 02:12:03,200 | 修正著修 |
| 02:12:03,200 | 02:12:04,200 | 整理這個毛法 |
| 02:12:04,200 | 02:12:05,200 | 對 是 |
| 02:12:05,200 | 02:12:07,200 | 這33條之一也要跟著 |
| 02:12:07,200 | 02:12:08,200 | 保留 |
| 02:12:08,200 | 02:12:10,200 | 是 可以保留 |
| 02:12:10,200 | 02:12:12,200 | 36條也保留 |
| 02:12:12,200 | 02:12:14,200 | 這樣就全部都保留 |
| 02:12:14,200 | 02:12:15,200 | 好 |
| 02:12:15,200 | 02:12:16,200 | 其實都有 |
| 02:12:16,200 | 02:12:18,200 | 今天的討論也有它的價值 |
| 02:12:18,200 | 02:12:21,200 | 大家下一次協商的時辰 |
| 02:12:21,200 | 02:12:23,200 | 大家再來討論一下 |
| 02:12:23,200 | 02:12:25,200 | 我請各位委員 |
| 02:12:25,200 | 02:12:27,200 | 我知道今天 |
| 02:12:27,200 | 02:12:29,200 | 司法法制委員會的委員 |
| 02:12:29,200 | 02:12:30,200 | 今天會到場的 |
| 02:12:30,200 | 02:12:33,200 | 其實大家都有對這個議題充分的關心 |
| 02:12:33,200 | 02:12:36,200 | 我看發言都有所本 |
| 02:12:36,200 | 02:12:38,200 | 大家也都充分的一個準備 |
| 02:12:38,200 | 02:12:42,200 | 但是涉及到是不是要讓行政部門 |
| 02:12:42,200 | 02:12:44,200 | 讓它擁有跟司法機關 |
| 02:12:44,200 | 02:12:46,200 | 同等的一個權限 |
| 02:12:46,200 | 02:12:48,200 | 要不要多給它這樣的一個武器 |
| 02:12:48,200 | 02:12:50,200 | 大家再考慮看看 |
| 02:12:51,200 | 02:12:55,200 | 3個條文都保留 |
| 02:12:55,200 | 02:12:57,200 | 附帶決議是一定保留 |
| 02:12:57,200 | 02:12:58,200 | 那附帶決議呢 |
| 02:12:58,200 | 02:13:02,200 | 附帶決議第一欄請問提案的委員 |
| 02:13:02,200 | 02:13:03,200 | 這條是什麼人提案 |
| 02:13:03,200 | 02:13:04,200 | 是第一項嗎 |
| 02:13:04,200 | 02:13:06,200 | 成交是委員來 |
| 02:13:06,200 | 02:13:08,200 | 那今天拓業沒有保留 |
| 02:13:08,200 | 02:13:09,200 | 對 |
| 02:13:09,200 | 02:13:10,200 | 你針對拓業沒了 |
| 02:13:10,200 | 02:13:12,200 | 剛剛這個連張案 |
| 02:13:12,200 | 02:13:13,200 | 其實范元元都有提到 |
| 02:13:13,200 | 02:13:15,200 | 他們有所謂的這個偽陽性 |
| 02:13:15,200 | 02:13:17,200 | 偽陽性的這個出現 |
| 02:13:17,200 | 02:13:19,200 | 因為任何檢查都一樣 |
| 02:13:19,200 | 02:13:21,200 | 那我們今天還不談偽陰性 |
| 02:13:21,200 | 02:13:23,200 | 偽陽性的意思就是說 |
| 02:13:23,200 | 02:13:24,200 | 因為這個特異性不夠 |
| 02:13:24,200 | 02:13:26,200 | 我用科學先解釋一下 |
| 02:13:26,200 | 02:13:27,200 | 就是說你這個本來要測 |
| 02:13:27,200 | 02:13:29,200 | 假設你要測一脫彌質 |
| 02:13:29,200 | 02:13:31,200 | 結果別的東西也都被測到 |
| 02:13:31,200 | 02:13:32,200 | 但它不是毒品 |
| 02:13:32,200 | 02:13:33,200 | 也不是一脫彌質 |
| 02:13:33,200 | 02:13:34,200 | 特異性不夠 |
| 02:13:34,200 | 02:13:35,200 | 所以有跑出偽陽性 |
| 02:13:35,200 | 02:13:36,200 | 那偽陰相對就是說 |
| 02:13:36,200 | 02:13:37,200 | 你的敏感性不夠 |
| 02:13:37,200 | 02:13:39,200 | 那個量其實存在 |
| 02:13:39,200 | 02:13:41,200 | 但是你的檢驗能力出問題 |
| 02:13:41,200 | 02:13:42,200 | 就測不到 |
| 02:13:42,200 | 02:13:43,200 | 那偽陽性這個部分 |
| 02:13:43,200 | 02:13:45,200 | 我們先看偽陽性這個部分 |
| 02:13:45,200 | 02:13:46,200 | 因為第一層 |
| 02:13:46,200 | 02:13:48,200 | 我是幫第一層的員警請命 |
| 02:13:48,200 | 02:13:50,200 | 因為他們就是做這個執行 |
| 02:13:50,200 | 02:13:52,200 | 這個大概尿液跟唾液 |
| 02:13:52,200 | 02:13:53,200 | 大家都沒有意見 |
| 02:13:53,200 | 02:13:54,200 | 那如果是因為試劑 |
| 02:13:54,200 | 02:13:56,200 | 或技術上出問題的時候 |
| 02:13:56,200 | 02:13:58,200 | 那當場就開單 |
| 02:13:58,200 | 02:14:00,200 | 要一致保管車輛甚至扣罩 |
| 02:14:00,200 | 02:14:02,200 | 那事後檢驗結果卻沒有吸毒 |
| 02:14:02,200 | 02:14:04,200 | 因為現在偽陽性已經出現了 |
| 02:14:04,200 | 02:14:05,200 | 我看都完了 |
| 02:14:05,200 | 02:14:06,200 | 那第一線員警怎麼辦 |
| 02:14:06,200 | 02:14:07,200 | 他第一個也有壓力 |
| 02:14:07,200 | 02:14:10,200 | 那如果民眾事後要提救濟 |
| 02:14:10,200 | 02:14:11,200 | 那我們要怎麼來處理 |
| 02:14:11,200 | 02:14:13,200 | 因為他可能損失很多吧 |
| 02:14:13,200 | 02:14:14,200 | 車子也不見得 |
| 02:14:14,200 | 02:14:15,200 | 不能工作了等等 |
| 02:14:15,200 | 02:14:16,200 | 很好 |
| 02:14:16,200 | 02:14:17,200 | 這些情況問題 |
| 02:14:17,200 | 02:14:18,200 | 我想我就不要完整的 |
| 02:14:18,200 | 02:14:20,200 | 車子要被扣走了 |
| 02:14:20,200 | 02:14:21,200 | 所以我是覺得說 |
| 02:14:21,200 | 02:14:23,200 | 希望本來今天不管過或沒有過 |
| 02:14:23,200 | 02:14:25,200 | 是不是就是要盡快 |
| 02:14:25,200 | 02:14:26,200 | 也許我是協商的 |
| 02:14:26,200 | 02:14:28,200 | 沒關係我們請那個好伯 |
| 02:14:28,200 | 02:14:31,200 | 對你的提案請他們表達看法好不好 |
| 02:14:31,200 | 02:14:33,200 | 因為我的提案的次數不多 |
| 02:14:33,200 | 02:14:35,200 | 沒關係 那就市長你們對 |
| 02:14:35,200 | 02:14:36,200 | 承招之委員這個提案 |
| 02:14:36,200 | 02:14:37,200 | 補救機制 |
| 02:14:37,200 | 02:14:39,200 | 有關於這個快篩委員 |
| 02:14:39,200 | 02:14:40,200 | 補救機制的部分 |
| 02:14:40,200 | 02:14:41,200 | 因為委員是提到 |
| 02:14:41,200 | 02:14:42,200 | 這個車輛保管 |
| 02:14:42,200 | 02:14:44,200 | 調扣駕照跟裁罰 |
| 02:14:44,200 | 02:14:46,200 | 其實這跟法務部的執掌沒有關係 |
| 02:14:46,200 | 02:14:49,200 | 那關於這個使用快篩 |
| 02:14:49,200 | 02:14:50,200 | 第一線也是警察使用 |
| 02:14:50,200 | 02:14:52,200 | 法務部本身沒有在用這一個 |
| 02:14:52,200 | 02:14:54,200 | 所以這個請法務部會同 |
| 02:14:54,200 | 02:14:55,200 | 這個可能是不是主管機關 |
| 02:14:55,200 | 02:14:56,200 | 是不是要改一個 |
| 02:14:56,200 | 02:14:57,200 | 真正的目的事業主管機關 |
| 02:14:57,200 | 02:14:59,200 | 可以了 請你們研議一下 |
| 02:14:59,200 | 02:15:03,200 | 他是研議具體的救濟跟補償機制 |
| 02:15:03,200 | 02:15:05,200 | 給你們研議而已 |
| 02:15:05,200 | 02:15:07,200 | 不是 我說是不是交通部 |
| 02:15:07,200 | 02:15:08,200 | 因為前面講的車輛調扣 |
| 02:15:08,200 | 02:15:09,200 | 這不是哪個部門 |
| 02:15:09,200 | 02:15:12,200 | 你們認為不是法務部 |
| 02:15:12,200 | 02:15:13,200 | 這不是法務部 |
| 02:15:13,200 | 02:15:15,200 | 第一線執法的人員 |
| 02:15:17,200 | 02:15:20,200 | 法務部本身沒有在用快篩 |
| 02:15:20,200 | 02:15:23,200 | 這樣這個應該算罐 |
| 02:15:25,200 | 02:15:27,200 | 交通部怎麼來 |
| 02:15:27,200 | 02:15:30,200 | 交通部就不是我們會 |
| 02:15:30,200 | 02:15:31,200 | 我們去跟他們說 |
| 02:15:31,200 | 02:15:33,200 | 這個上交通部這樣也怪怪 |
| 02:15:33,200 | 02:15:35,200 | 我們是希望要配合 |
| 02:15:35,200 | 02:15:37,200 | 法務部會同那個 |
| 02:15:37,200 | 02:15:38,200 | 衛福部來警政署 |
| 02:15:38,200 | 02:15:41,200 | 去把這件事研擬出來 |
| 02:15:41,200 | 02:15:44,200 | 因為這個委陽性的可能性 |
| 02:15:44,200 | 02:15:46,200 | 主責機關還叫主管機關 |
| 02:15:46,200 | 02:15:49,200 | 我們可以協同 |
| 02:15:50,200 | 02:15:51,200 | 早知 |
| 02:15:51,200 | 02:15:53,200 | 我們不是主責機關 |
| 02:15:53,200 | 02:15:56,200 | 應該不是我們司法法制委員會 |
| 02:15:56,200 | 02:15:59,200 | 這個案應該不是在我們這裡 |
| 02:16:00,200 | 02:16:01,200 | 他們可以去研議 |
| 02:16:01,200 | 02:16:03,200 | 跨部會大家都沒有人做 |
| 02:16:03,200 | 02:16:05,200 | 這應該是這裡都委員會 |
| 02:16:05,200 | 02:16:06,200 | 這裡都委員會 |
| 02:16:06,200 | 02:16:08,200 | 我們在處理毒品 |
| 02:16:09,200 | 02:16:11,200 | 我們處理毒品問題涉及到的 |
| 02:16:11,200 | 02:16:12,200 | 全部都不是我們 |
| 02:16:12,200 | 02:16:14,200 | 司法法制主責的 |
| 02:16:14,200 | 02:16:16,200 | 因為他是扣押車輛 |
| 02:16:16,200 | 02:16:18,200 | 調扣駕照裁罰都不是屬於司法法 |
| 02:16:18,200 | 02:16:20,200 | 他就是因為撤出他是陽性 |
| 02:16:20,200 | 02:16:22,200 | 但是這後來發生政治是委的 |
| 02:16:22,200 | 02:16:25,200 | 所以就是說就不對了 |
| 02:16:25,200 | 02:16:26,200 | 不對啦不對 |
| 02:16:26,200 | 02:16:27,200 | 你後面做的行為 |
| 02:16:27,200 | 02:16:29,200 | 你要給他有一個補充 |
| 02:16:29,200 | 02:16:30,200 | 這個法務部不是他補的 |
| 02:16:30,200 | 02:16:33,200 | 因為他的職長就不是在這裡 |
| 02:16:34,200 | 02:16:37,200 | 沒有可是他整個委陽性的案件 |
| 02:16:37,200 | 02:16:40,200 | 還是你這個去交通處理 |
| 02:16:41,200 | 02:16:42,200 | 那有可能辦給他 |
| 02:16:42,200 | 02:16:43,200 | 交通研議 |
| 02:16:44,200 | 02:16:45,200 | 這個在我們這裡處理 |
| 02:16:45,200 | 02:16:46,200 | 法務部甚至到有關補償的 |
| 02:16:46,200 | 02:16:48,200 | 相關的這個法律救濟的問題 |
| 02:16:48,200 | 02:16:50,200 | 應該是法務部這邊也可以研議 |
| 02:16:50,200 | 02:16:53,200 | 就算是可能不是你們主管的法規 |
| 02:16:53,200 | 02:16:55,200 | 提一個報告也應該 |
| 02:16:55,200 | 02:16:56,200 | 但是我想說一下 |
| 02:16:56,200 | 02:16:57,200 | 這只是提個報告而已 |
| 02:16:57,200 | 02:16:59,200 | 但是我想因為其實每個主管 |
| 02:16:59,200 | 02:17:01,200 | 事業主管目的事業主管機關 |
| 02:17:01,200 | 02:17:03,200 | 他都你如果要這樣講的話 |
| 02:17:03,200 | 02:17:04,200 | 那這樣等於是所有事情 |
| 02:17:04,200 | 02:17:05,200 | 都可以回到法務部 |
| 02:17:05,200 | 02:17:06,200 | 可是不是嘛 |
| 02:17:06,200 | 02:17:07,200 | 應該還是要回到這件事情 |
| 02:17:07,200 | 02:17:09,200 | 到底事實上是誰主責 |
| 02:17:10,200 | 02:17:11,200 | 所以我覺得大家講這東西 |
| 02:17:11,200 | 02:17:12,200 | 我也非常認同 |
| 02:17:12,200 | 02:17:14,200 | 他的確發聲 |
| 02:17:14,200 | 02:17:15,200 | 我們也收到很多澄清 |
| 02:17:15,200 | 02:17:18,200 | 只是說今天目的事業主管機關 |
| 02:17:18,200 | 02:17:20,200 | 不是在司法法制委員會 |
| 02:17:20,200 | 02:17:23,200 | 所以才會說建議說是不是到交 |
| 02:17:23,200 | 02:17:24,200 | 我是不太確定到底是交通委員會 |
| 02:17:24,200 | 02:17:26,200 | 還是內政委員會 |
| 02:17:26,200 | 02:17:29,200 | 那是不是應該到那邊去處理才對 |
| 02:17:29,200 | 02:17:32,200 | 因為所有的機關都會去處理救濟補償 |
| 02:17:33,200 | 02:17:35,200 | 因為你這個說的是說 |
| 02:17:35,200 | 02:17:39,200 | 當場車輛去用移置 |
| 02:17:39,200 | 02:17:41,200 | 調控駕照 |
| 02:17:41,200 | 02:17:43,200 | 還有裁罰 |
| 02:17:43,200 | 02:17:47,200 | 這一些其實你說叫他的補償機制 |
| 02:17:47,200 | 02:17:48,200 | 要怎樣 |
| 02:17:48,200 | 02:17:50,200 | 你的車有什麼拖去 |
| 02:17:50,200 | 02:17:52,200 | 去用拖去 |
| 02:17:52,200 | 02:17:53,200 | 拖去補罐 |
| 02:17:53,200 | 02:17:55,200 | 還是那個調造 |
| 02:17:55,200 | 02:17:58,200 | 那個駕照調控駕照 |
| 02:17:58,200 | 02:18:01,200 | 你說救濟應該是交通部 |
| 02:18:01,200 | 02:18:04,200 | 事後證明是清白的時候 |
| 02:18:04,200 | 02:18:07,200 | 我意思說針對這些事項 |
| 02:18:07,200 | 02:18:09,200 | 要怎樣救濟的部分 |
| 02:18:09,200 | 02:18:12,200 | 是不是交通部 |
| 02:18:12,200 | 02:18:14,200 | 不是說你這個不好 |
| 02:18:14,200 | 02:18:15,200 | 我的意思說是不是 |
| 02:18:15,200 | 02:18:18,200 | 這不見得是跟交通部有關 |
| 02:18:18,200 | 02:18:20,200 | 因為這邊是講第一線執法人員 |
| 02:18:20,200 | 02:18:23,200 | 法務部下面有很多也是執法人員 |
| 02:18:23,200 | 02:18:25,200 | 他測出如果有偽陽性 |
| 02:18:25,200 | 02:18:27,200 | 那你到時候你法務部要怎麼針對 |
| 02:18:27,200 | 02:18:29,200 | 這些偽陽性的這些人員們 |
| 02:18:29,200 | 02:18:31,200 | 然後來這個 |
| 02:18:31,200 | 02:18:33,200 | 他不見得是指員警 |
| 02:18:33,200 | 02:18:34,200 | 當然有員警 |
| 02:18:34,200 | 02:18:36,200 | 然後還有其他的 |
| 02:18:36,200 | 02:18:37,200 | 這些人也都是一樣 |
| 02:18:37,200 | 02:18:39,200 | 那我現在是講說 |
| 02:18:39,200 | 02:18:40,200 | 不要管車輛好了 |
| 02:18:40,200 | 02:18:41,200 | 車輛現在不管 |
| 02:18:41,200 | 02:18:43,200 | 是人頭提出一個補償 |
| 02:18:43,200 | 02:18:45,200 | 從法律的角度 |
| 02:18:45,200 | 02:18:46,200 | 從法律的角度 |
| 02:18:46,200 | 02:18:48,200 | 應該要修什麼法 |
| 02:18:48,200 | 02:18:50,200 | 然後提什麼樣的補償機制 |
| 02:18:50,200 | 02:18:52,200 | 不然你就不要列舉 |
| 02:18:52,200 | 02:18:54,200 | 不然你就不要列舉 |
| 02:18:54,200 | 02:18:55,200 | 你會記嗎 |
| 02:18:55,200 | 02:18:58,200 | 我們列舉可能就偽陽性造成的 |
| 02:18:58,200 | 02:19:00,200 | 結果那要怎麼處理 |
| 02:19:00,200 | 02:19:01,200 | 這個我告訴你 |
| 02:19:01,200 | 02:19:02,200 | 協商的時候記出來 |
| 02:19:02,200 | 02:19:04,200 | 大家都知道 |
| 02:19:04,200 | 02:19:05,200 | 協商的時候 |
| 02:19:05,200 | 02:19:06,200 | 我跟你講 |
| 02:19:06,200 | 02:19:08,200 | 我們碰到一個問題 |
| 02:19:08,200 | 02:19:09,200 | 你看我們昨天那個 |
| 02:19:09,200 | 02:19:10,200 | 今天禮拜幾 |
| 02:19:10,200 | 02:19:12,200 | 禮拜三 |
| 02:19:12,200 | 02:19:14,200 | 你看我們早上 |
| 02:19:14,200 | 02:19:16,200 | 早上那個兄弟姊妹特留分 |
| 02:19:16,200 | 02:19:18,200 | 三組對不對 |
| 02:19:18,200 | 02:19:19,200 | 叫好對不對 |
| 02:19:19,200 | 02:19:21,200 | 夜館音 |
| 02:19:21,200 | 02:19:22,200 | 真的演的像 |
| 02:19:22,200 | 02:19:23,200 | 跟他們都無關 |
| 02:19:23,200 | 02:19:25,200 | 司法院 |
| 02:19:25,200 | 02:19:27,200 | 所以我們才是會定一個日出 |
| 02:19:27,200 | 02:19:29,200 | 為什麼大家敲不下去 |
| 02:19:29,200 | 02:19:30,200 | 重點就是在這裡 |
| 02:19:30,200 | 02:19:32,200 | 講到這個三組兄弟姊妹特留分的規定 |
| 02:19:32,200 | 02:19:34,200 | 雖然說昨天三讀通過 |
| 02:19:34,200 | 02:19:36,200 | 但是我還是有很大的不滿 |
| 02:19:36,200 | 02:19:37,200 | 因為這明明就是可以 |
| 02:19:37,200 | 02:19:39,200 | 立刻實施的條文 |
| 02:19:39,200 | 02:19:40,200 | 然後又是因為 |
| 02:19:40,200 | 02:19:41,200 | 沒有啦 |
| 02:19:41,200 | 02:19:42,200 | 還有什麼半年的 |
| 02:19:42,200 | 02:19:43,200 | 我知道 |
| 02:19:43,200 | 02:19:44,200 | 這個朝野協商 |
| 02:19:44,200 | 02:19:45,200 | 每個都在 |
| 02:19:45,200 | 02:19:47,200 | 大家都跟你說 |
| 02:19:47,200 | 02:19:48,200 | 這個條文三檔 |
| 02:19:48,200 | 02:19:50,200 | 大家都沒有意見的 |
| 02:19:50,200 | 02:19:51,200 | 就是說 |
| 02:19:51,200 | 02:19:52,200 | 那一些配套 |
| 02:19:52,200 | 02:19:53,200 | 怎麼樣讓它完成 |
| 02:19:53,200 | 02:19:54,200 | 反正三檔沒有意見 |
| 02:19:54,200 | 02:19:55,200 | 但是我就說我有意見 |
| 02:19:55,200 | 02:19:56,200 | 因為我也要表達 |
| 02:19:56,200 | 02:19:57,200 | 是 |
| 02:19:57,200 | 02:19:58,200 | 我們的立場 |
| 02:19:58,200 | 02:19:59,200 | 其實很多的老闆 |
| 02:19:59,200 | 02:20:00,200 | 之前還不知道說這個 |
| 02:20:00,200 | 02:20:01,200 | 翁瑋元 |
| 02:20:01,200 | 02:20:02,200 | 我都知道 |
| 02:20:02,200 | 02:20:04,200 | 就是我們有113個 |
| 02:20:04,200 | 02:20:06,200 | 常常你有你的意見是好事 |
| 02:20:06,200 | 02:20:08,200 | 搞不好112個人都睡著了 |
| 02:20:08,200 | 02:20:10,200 | 只有你是醒著的 |
| 02:20:10,200 | 02:20:11,200 | 也有可能喔 |
| 02:20:11,200 | 02:20:14,200 | 所以我說我今天是表達我個人的意見 |
| 02:20:14,200 | 02:20:15,200 | 我對你就是說 |
| 02:20:15,200 | 02:20:17,200 | 這一次的法律通過我去支持 |
| 02:20:17,200 | 02:20:19,200 | 可是為什麼要延後半年 |
| 02:20:19,200 | 02:20:20,200 | 那沒辦法 |
| 02:20:20,200 | 02:20:21,200 | 朝野協商大家 |
| 02:20:21,200 | 02:20:23,200 | 基本上就是法律都可以啊 |
| 02:20:23,200 | 02:20:24,200 | 朝野協商大家 |
| 02:20:24,200 | 02:20:25,200 | 那朝野協商 |
| 02:20:25,200 | 02:20:27,200 | 毒品現在討論好 |
| 02:20:27,200 | 02:20:29,200 | 因為這樣扯不完 |
| 02:20:29,200 | 02:20:31,200 | 本案提案委員是否撤回 |
| 02:20:31,200 | 02:20:34,200 | 另於黨團協商的時候再提出 |
| 02:20:34,200 | 02:20:35,200 | 招枝 |
| 02:20:35,200 | 02:20:36,200 | 你這個黨團協商 |
| 02:20:36,200 | 02:20:37,200 | 還是我們再提出來好不好 |
| 02:20:37,200 | 02:20:38,200 | 因為我覺得這個提案 |
| 02:20:38,200 | 02:20:40,200 | 本身我是非常支持 |
| 02:20:40,200 | 02:20:41,200 | 因為我之前質詢了很多次 |
| 02:20:41,200 | 02:20:42,200 | 還是你文字調整一下 |
| 02:20:42,200 | 02:20:43,200 | 但是你要不要 |
| 02:20:43,200 | 02:20:45,200 | 因為我們真的都是想處理這個問題 |
| 02:20:45,200 | 02:20:46,200 | 我們就讓它回到對的部會 |
| 02:20:46,200 | 02:20:49,200 | 我的建議是讓它回到對的部會去解決 |
| 02:20:49,200 | 02:20:50,200 | 因為這才是我們想要 |
| 02:20:50,200 | 02:20:52,200 | 做到這件事情的目標 |
| 02:20:52,200 | 02:20:53,200 | 好啦 |
| 02:20:53,200 | 02:20:54,200 | 這樣我會處理 |
| 02:20:54,200 | 02:20:56,200 | 趙子你這個 |
| 02:20:56,200 | 02:20:58,200 | 你這案先撤回 |
| 02:20:58,200 | 02:20:59,200 | 黨團協商的時候 |
| 02:20:59,200 | 02:21:01,200 | 你文字做個修正 |
| 02:21:01,200 | 02:21:02,200 | 大家好過這樣好不好 |
| 02:21:02,200 | 02:21:03,200 | 好 |
| 02:21:03,200 | 02:21:04,200 | 可以啦 |
| 02:21:04,200 | 02:21:06,200 | 我就針對偽陽性這件事情 |
| 02:21:06,200 | 02:21:07,200 | 沒有問題 |
| 02:21:07,200 | 02:21:09,200 | 你這個時候到 |
| 02:21:09,200 | 02:21:10,200 | 到時候你這個提出來一下 |
| 02:21:10,200 | 02:21:11,200 | 黨團協商的時候 |
| 02:21:11,200 | 02:21:13,200 | 朝野協商再提出來一下 |
| 02:21:13,200 | 02:21:14,200 | 這樣這條先 |
| 02:21:14,200 | 02:21:15,200 | 就好了 |
| 02:21:15,200 | 02:21:17,200 | 所以駕駛人改成當事人 |
| 02:21:17,200 | 02:21:20,200 | 那附帶決議第一案 |
| 02:21:20,200 | 02:21:21,200 | 當事人同意 |
| 02:21:21,200 | 02:21:22,200 | 就先撤回 |
| 02:21:22,200 | 02:21:24,200 | 現在第二案 |
| 02:21:24,200 | 02:21:25,200 | 第二案就我的了 |
| 02:21:25,200 | 02:21:27,200 | 第二案 |
| 02:21:27,200 | 02:21:29,200 | 第二案 |
| 02:21:29,200 | 02:21:31,200 | 就是說剛才有聯過 |
| 02:21:31,200 | 02:21:33,200 | 請法務部家 |
| 02:21:33,200 | 02:21:35,200 | 你們看法是怎麼樣 |
| 02:21:35,200 | 02:21:38,200 | 對這個附帶決議內有沒有意見 |
| 02:21:38,200 | 02:21:39,200 | 沒有意見啦 |
| 02:21:39,200 | 02:21:40,200 | 好 |
| 02:21:40,200 | 02:21:42,200 | 不好意思這個你來涉及網站 |
| 02:21:42,200 | 02:21:44,200 | 訴發部不在怎麼處理 |
| 02:21:44,200 | 02:21:45,200 | 你這是你的吧 |
| 02:21:45,200 | 02:21:46,200 | 這是你的不好意思 |
| 02:21:46,200 | 02:21:47,200 | 因為我現在整個連 |
| 02:21:47,200 | 02:21:49,200 | 衛環什麼全部大家都在 |
| 02:21:49,200 | 02:21:51,200 | 沒有啦講的還是毒品啊 |
| 02:21:51,200 | 02:21:52,200 | 可是 |
| 02:21:52,200 | 02:21:54,200 | 這是台灣販毒的部分啊 |
| 02:21:54,200 | 02:21:56,200 | 訴發部一樣躲得遠遠啊 |
| 02:21:56,200 | 02:21:58,200 | 訴發部都不在 |
| 02:21:58,200 | 02:22:00,200 | 每次講一講說 |
| 02:22:00,200 | 02:22:02,200 | 移除貼文這個 |
| 02:22:02,200 | 02:22:03,200 | 這個是他們嘛 |
| 02:22:03,200 | 02:22:05,200 | 移除貼文是他們要做的嘛 |
| 02:22:05,200 | 02:22:06,200 | 提委你認為這個 |
| 02:22:06,200 | 02:22:09,200 | 訴發部跟法院對嗎 |
| 02:22:09,200 | 02:22:11,200 | 是不是這樣說 |
| 02:22:11,200 | 02:22:12,200 | 我不知道訴發部 |
| 02:22:12,200 | 02:22:13,200 | 不是我跟你講 |
| 02:22:13,200 | 02:22:15,200 | 你說為了防範 |
| 02:22:15,200 | 02:22:16,200 | 為了防治 |
| 02:22:16,200 | 02:22:18,200 | 兒少因為心智未成熟 |
| 02:22:18,200 | 02:22:21,200 | 容易受到網站跟行動應用 |
| 02:22:21,200 | 02:22:23,200 | 程式接觸毒品 |
| 02:22:23,200 | 02:22:25,200 | 我們說各主管機關 |
| 02:22:25,200 | 02:22:26,200 | 跟司法警察機關 |
| 02:22:26,200 | 02:22:29,200 | 可以讓網站業者行動業者 |
| 02:22:29,200 | 02:22:30,200 | 移除 |
| 02:22:30,200 | 02:22:32,200 | 這個才有個訴發部 |
| 02:22:32,200 | 02:22:34,200 | 各位機關全部要遵守 |
| 02:22:34,200 | 02:22:36,200 | 我們司法法治委員會的看法 |
| 02:22:36,200 | 02:22:37,200 | 這個決議啊 |
| 02:22:37,200 | 02:22:38,200 | 法務部也認為合理啊 |
| 02:22:38,200 | 02:22:40,200 | 這個已經都犯罪了 |
| 02:22:40,200 | 02:22:42,200 | 不行啊我每次質詢說 |
| 02:22:42,200 | 02:22:44,200 | 電子煙商店 |
| 02:22:44,200 | 02:22:46,200 | 我每次都叫他們現場處理啊 |
| 02:22:46,200 | 02:22:47,200 | 不是啦 |
| 02:22:47,200 | 02:22:48,200 | 我跟你講 |
| 02:22:48,200 | 02:22:51,200 | 你都很好的意見 |
| 02:22:51,200 | 02:22:52,200 | 你都先知 |
| 02:22:52,200 | 02:22:54,200 | 我都打斷你算不記得 |
| 02:22:54,200 | 02:22:56,200 | 全日本你就理想專業 |
| 02:22:56,200 | 02:22:57,200 | 人又好 |
| 02:22:57,200 | 02:22:58,200 | 都買得到啊 |
| 02:22:58,200 | 02:23:00,200 | 店又深入認真 |
| 02:23:00,200 | 02:23:02,200 | 但重點就是說 |
| 02:23:02,200 | 02:23:03,200 | 早晚時常出來 |
| 02:23:03,200 | 02:23:05,200 | 就代表你大買啦好不好 |
| 02:23:05,200 | 02:23:07,200 | 早晚時常都幫他倒卡手 |
| 02:23:07,200 | 02:23:10,200 | 來這個法務部沒有意見啦 |
| 02:23:10,200 | 02:23:11,200 | 好那就 |
| 02:23:11,200 | 02:23:14,200 | 附帶決定就照案通過 |
| 02:23:16,200 | 02:23:18,200 | 好就請我們參考 |
| 02:23:19,200 | 02:23:22,200 | 本案逐條均已處理完畢 |
| 02:23:22,200 | 02:23:23,200 | 來做以下宣告 |
| 02:23:23,200 | 02:23:25,200 | 本案審查完畢 |
| 02:23:25,200 | 02:23:26,200 | 擬具審查報告 |
| 02:23:26,200 | 02:23:28,200 | 提請院會公決 |
| 02:23:28,200 | 02:23:30,200 | 那本案是我經過黨壇協商 |
| 02:23:30,200 | 02:23:32,200 | 就來交付黨壇協商 |
| 02:23:32,200 | 02:23:35,200 | 那院會討論時 |
| 02:23:35,200 | 02:23:38,200 | 由莊召集委員瑞雄出席說明 |
| 02:23:38,200 | 02:23:39,200 | 那附帶決議一項 |
| 02:23:39,200 | 02:23:41,200 | 一併提報院會處理 |
| 02:23:41,200 | 02:23:45,200 | 調次引述條文部分文字及法制用語 |
| 02:23:45,200 | 02:23:48,200 | 授權主席跟議事人員來做整理 |
| 02:23:48,200 | 02:23:52,200 | 那本次會議我們就進行到此為止啦 |
| 02:23:52,200 | 02:23:54,200 | 議程討論事項第二案做如下決議 |
| 02:23:54,200 | 02:23:56,200 | 另定期繼續審查 |
| 02:23:56,200 | 02:23:59,200 | 現在上會謝謝大家辛苦了 |
| 02:23:59,200 | 02:24:01,200 | 謝謝昭偉一民 |
| 02:24:01,200 | 02:24:02,200 | 謝謝昭偉 |
| 02:24:03,200 | 02:24:06,200 | 一場論戰這樣可以啦 |
| 02:24:07,200 | 02:24:09,200 | 對啊對啊對啊 |
| 02:24:15,200 | 02:24:17,200 | 這個就是脫衣快篩 |
| 02:24:17,200 | 02:24:20,200 | 因為脫衣快篩不是屬於衛福部管的產品 |
| 02:24:20,200 | 02:24:21,200 | 它是因為 |
| 02:24:21,200 | 02:24:23,200 | 它並不是醫療器材 |
| 02:24:23,200 | 02:24:25,200 | 所以是不是 |
| 02:24:25,200 | 02:24:26,200 | 因為就是這個部分 |
| 02:24:26,200 | 02:24:29,200 | 也不會經過我們就是核准或者是說 |
| 02:24:29,200 | 02:24:30,200 | 所以我這裡不能寫衛福 |
| 02:33:46,200 | 02:33:47,200 | 對 |
| 02:33:47,200 | 02:33:48,200 | 對 |
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| 02:34:13,200 | 02:34:14,200 | 對 |