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完整會議 @ 第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:23:58,930 | 00:23:59,430 | 拜拜 |
| 00:24:00,130 | 00:24:00,630 | 还有 |
| 00:24:02,540 | 00:24:03,500 | 好 大家早安 |
| 00:24:03,500 | 00:24:04,500 | 那个 |
| 00:24:04,500 | 00:24:05,420 | 现在开始开会 |
| 00:24:05,420 | 00:24:05,940 | 请 |
| 00:24:06,780 | 00:24:07,780 | 主播报告出现人数 |
| 00:24:08,850 | 00:24:11,850 | 报告委员会出席委员识人已足法定人数 |
| 00:24:11,850 | 00:24:13,689 | 好 我们现在开始开会 |
| 00:24:13,689 | 00:24:15,409 | 进行报告事项 |
| 00:24:15,409 | 00:24:16,969 | 请宣读上次会议之路 |
| 00:24:18,010 | 00:24:20,250 | 立白院第十一届第五会及经济委员会 |
| 00:24:20,250 | 00:24:22,210 | 第二十一次全体委员会议事录 |
| 00:24:22,210 | 00:24:22,650 | 时间 |
| 00:24:22,650 | 00:24:24,650 | 一百一十五年七月十五月星期三 |
| 00:24:24,650 | 00:24:26,730 | 九十至十四十五十四分 |
| 00:24:26,730 | 00:24:27,090 | 地点 |
| 00:24:27,090 | 00:24:28,490 | 红楼101会议室 |
| 00:24:28,490 | 00:24:29,010 | 初期委员 |
| 00:24:29,010 | 00:24:30,250 | 陈丁飞等十四人 |
| 00:24:30,250 | 00:24:30,810 | 列席委员 |
| 00:24:30,810 | 00:24:31,970 | 洪孟凯等七人 |
| 00:24:31,970 | 00:24:32,610 | 列席人员 |
| 00:24:32,610 | 00:24:34,330 | 经济部常务次长赖建进等 |
| 00:24:34,330 | 00:24:34,970 | 主席 |
| 00:24:34,970 | 00:24:36,450 | 红昭纪委员郁祥 |
| 00:24:36,450 | 00:24:37,250 | 报告事项 |
| 00:24:37,250 | 00:24:38,690 | 宣读上次会议事录 |
| 00:24:38,690 | 00:24:39,090 | 决定 |
| 00:24:39,090 | 00:24:39,690 | 确定 |
| 00:24:39,690 | 00:24:40,530 | 台湾事项 |
| 00:24:40,530 | 00:24:41,410 | 一 继续审查 |
| 00:24:41,410 | 00:24:43,490 | 一 白一十年度中央政府总议判案 |
| 00:24:43,490 | 00:24:45,410 | 附属当务预算营业部分 |
| 00:24:45,410 | 00:24:46,530 | 关于经济部主管 |
| 00:24:46,530 | 00:24:48,170 | 台湾电力股份有限公司 |
| 00:24:48,170 | 00:24:49,850 | 台湾糖业股份有限公司 |
| 00:24:49,850 | 00:24:50,450 | 决议 |
| 00:24:50,450 | 00:24:50,970 | 假 |
| 00:24:50,970 | 00:24:51,970 | 经济部主管 |
| 00:24:51,970 | 00:24:53,890 | 一 台湾糖业股份有限公司 |
| 00:24:53,890 | 00:24:54,730 | 二 业务计划 |
| 00:24:54,730 | 00:24:56,730 | 应依据营业收支生产成本 |
| 00:24:56,730 | 00:24:57,370 | 转投资 |
| 00:24:57,370 | 00:24:59,330 | 重大制建设事业及资金运用等 |
| 00:24:59,330 | 00:25:00,370 | 现场之审查结果 |
| 00:25:00,370 | 00:25:01,530 | 随同调整 |
| 00:25:01,530 | 00:25:02,450 | 二 营业收支 |
| 00:25:03,540 | 00:25:04,379 | 营业总收入 |
| 00:25:04,379 | 00:25:07,580 | 367亿8,768万9千元照列 |
| 00:25:07,580 | 00:25:08,460 | 营业总支出 |
| 00:25:08,460 | 00:25:09,899 | 不含所得税费用 |
| 00:25:09,899 | 00:25:12,860 | 原列307亿8,720万元 |
| 00:25:12,860 | 00:25:13,500 | 简列 |
| 00:25:13,500 | 00:25:14,580 | 营业费用向下 |
| 00:25:14,580 | 00:25:16,260 | 管理费用支服务费 |
| 00:25:16,260 | 00:25:17,060 | 800万元 |
| 00:25:17,060 | 00:25:17,860 | 据均照列 |
| 00:25:17,860 | 00:25:20,500 | 改列为307亿7,920万元 |
| 00:25:20,500 | 00:25:22,220 | 三 税前经历 |
| 00:25:22,220 | 00:25:24,820 | 原列60亿48万9千元 |
| 00:25:24,820 | 00:25:25,980 | 增列800万元 |
| 00:25:25,980 | 00:25:28,460 | 改列为60亿848万9千元 |
| 00:25:28,460 | 00:25:29,620 | 三 生产成本 |
| 00:25:29,620 | 00:25:30,740 | 随同营业总支出 |
| 00:25:30,740 | 00:25:31,740 | 审查结果调整 |
| 00:25:32,440 | 00:25:33,640 | 四 转投资计划 |
| 00:25:33,640 | 00:25:34,480 | 减少投资 |
| 00:25:34,480 | 00:25:36,640 | 4亿7,468万元照列 |
| 00:25:36,640 | 00:25:38,040 | 五 中高资建设事业 |
| 00:25:38,040 | 00:25:40,720 | 10亿1,518万7千元照列 |
| 00:25:41,590 | 00:25:42,870 | 六 资金运用 |
| 00:25:42,870 | 00:25:44,190 | 因依据营业收支 |
| 00:25:44,190 | 00:25:45,669 | 生产成本 盈亏拨捕 |
| 00:25:45,669 | 00:25:48,110 | 转投资及中高资建设事业 |
| 00:25:48,110 | 00:25:50,070 | 等项支审查结果随同调整 |
| 00:25:50,070 | 00:25:51,710 | 七 补办预算无列数 |
| 00:25:51,710 | 00:25:53,870 | 八 通过决议72项 |
| 00:25:53,870 | 00:25:56,550 | 二 台湾电力股份连线公司 |
| 00:25:56,550 | 00:25:57,350 | 一 计划 |
| 00:25:57,350 | 00:25:58,430 | 因依据营业收支 |
| 00:25:58,430 | 00:25:59,710 | 生产成本 转投资 |
| 00:25:59,710 | 00:26:00,669 | 中高资建设事业 |
| 00:26:00,669 | 00:26:02,629 | 及资金运用等项支 |
| 00:26:02,629 | 00:26:04,190 | 审查结果随同调整 |
| 00:26:04,190 | 00:26:06,030 | 营业收支 |
| 00:26:06,030 | 00:26:06,990 | 营业总收入 |
| 00:26:07,030 | 00:26:08,270 | 一兆23亿 |
| 00:26:08,270 | 00:26:10,550 | 6275万6千元照列 |
| 00:26:10,550 | 00:26:11,670 | 营业总支出 |
| 00:26:11,670 | 00:26:12,790 | 不含所得税费用 |
| 00:26:12,790 | 00:26:14,150 | 一兆303亿 |
| 00:26:14,150 | 00:26:16,150 | 8,638万千元照列 |
| 00:26:16,150 | 00:26:17,030 | 税金进损 |
| 00:26:17,030 | 00:26:17,750 | 280亿 |
| 00:26:17,750 | 00:26:19,150 | 2,362万 |
| 00:26:19,150 | 00:26:19,950 | 5千元照列 |
| 00:26:20,680 | 00:26:21,600 | 三 生产成本 |
| 00:26:21,600 | 00:26:22,600 | 随同营业总支出 |
| 00:26:22,600 | 00:26:23,600 | 审查结果调整 |
| 00:26:23,600 | 00:26:24,920 | 四 转投资计划 |
| 00:26:24,920 | 00:26:26,360 | 增加投资剩7亿 |
| 00:26:26,360 | 00:26:28,120 | 499万5千元照列 |
| 00:26:28,120 | 00:26:29,400 | 五 壮大资建设事业 |
| 00:26:29,400 | 00:26:30,880 | 2,611亿 |
| 00:26:30,880 | 00:26:33,320 | 4,288万2千元照列 |
| 00:26:33,320 | 00:26:34,320 | 六 资金运用 |
| 00:26:34,320 | 00:26:36,240 | 因依据营业收支生产成本 |
| 00:26:36,240 | 00:26:37,000 | 盈亏拨捕 |
| 00:26:37,000 | 00:26:39,000 | 转投资及壮大资建设事业 |
| 00:26:39,000 | 00:26:40,920 | 等项支审查结果随同调整 |
| 00:26:40,920 | 00:26:42,400 | 七 补办预算无列数 |
| 00:26:42,400 | 00:26:44,160 | 八 通过决议130项 |
| 00:26:44,899 | 00:26:46,500 | 二 继续审查115年度 |
| 00:26:46,500 | 00:26:47,620 | 中央政府总预算案 |
| 00:26:47,620 | 00:26:48,540 | 附属单位预算 |
| 00:26:48,540 | 00:26:49,540 | 分营业部分 |
| 00:26:49,540 | 00:26:51,020 | 关于经济部主管 |
| 00:26:51,020 | 00:26:52,260 | 经济作业基金 |
| 00:26:52,260 | 00:26:53,540 | 水资源作业基金 |
| 00:26:53,540 | 00:26:54,979 | 经济代表收入基金 |
| 00:26:54,979 | 00:26:57,419 | 及核能发电后端营运基金 |
| 00:26:57,419 | 00:26:57,820 | 决议 |
| 00:26:58,470 | 00:26:59,590 | 以经济部主管 |
| 00:26:59,590 | 00:27:00,830 | 一 作业基金 |
| 00:27:00,830 | 00:27:02,270 | 经济作业基金 |
| 00:27:02,270 | 00:27:03,070 | 一 计划 |
| 00:27:03,070 | 00:27:05,070 | 依据业务收支转投资 |
| 00:27:05,070 | 00:27:06,550 | 固定资产建设改良扩充 |
| 00:27:06,550 | 00:27:09,190 | 及资金运用等项支审查结果随同调整 |
| 00:27:09,190 | 00:27:10,310 | 二 业务收支 |
| 00:27:10,310 | 00:27:11,270 | 营业总收入 |
| 00:27:11,270 | 00:27:14,190 | 91亿1345万9千元照列 |
| 00:27:14,940 | 00:27:16,060 | 营业总支出 |
| 00:27:16,060 | 00:27:19,220 | 81亿864万6千元照列 |
| 00:27:19,220 | 00:27:20,140 | 本级剩余 |
| 00:27:20,140 | 00:27:22,540 | 10亿481万3千元照列 |
| 00:27:23,220 | 00:27:24,420 | 三 节教公布金额 |
| 00:27:24,420 | 00:27:26,900 | 2718万6千元照列 |
| 00:27:26,900 | 00:27:28,100 | 四 转投资计划 |
| 00:27:28,100 | 00:27:28,900 | 无劣数 |
| 00:27:28,900 | 00:27:31,100 | 五 固定资产建设改良扩充 |
| 00:27:31,100 | 00:27:33,740 | 28亿6101万5千元照列 |
| 00:27:33,740 | 00:27:35,900 | 六 国库增拨基金额 |
| 00:27:35,900 | 00:27:37,260 | 60亿元照列 |
| 00:27:38,290 | 00:27:38,850 | 四 |
| 00:27:39,960 | 00:27:43,040 | 五 固定资产建设改良扩充 |
| 00:27:43,040 | 00:27:45,440 | 28亿6101万5千元照列 |
| 00:27:45,440 | 00:27:47,160 | 六 国库增拨基金额 |
| 00:27:47,160 | 00:27:48,720 | 60亿元照列 |
| 00:27:48,720 | 00:27:51,000 | 七 通过局域52项 |
| 00:27:51,000 | 00:27:51,920 | 二 作业基金 |
| 00:27:51,920 | 00:27:52,960 | 水资源作业基金 |
| 00:27:53,970 | 00:27:54,650 | 业务计划 |
| 00:27:54,650 | 00:27:55,730 | 应用剧业务收支 |
| 00:27:55,730 | 00:27:56,290 | 转投资 |
| 00:27:56,290 | 00:27:58,010 | 固定资产建设改良扩充 |
| 00:27:58,010 | 00:27:59,810 | 及资金应用等项制审查结果 |
| 00:27:59,810 | 00:28:00,450 | 随便调整 |
| 00:28:01,240 | 00:28:02,840 | 业务收支 |
| 00:28:02,840 | 00:28:03,560 | 业务转收入 |
| 00:28:04,340 | 00:28:04,860 | 100亿 |
| 00:28:05,440 | 00:28:07,120 | 215万9千元照列 |
| 00:28:07,120 | 00:28:07,840 | 右总支出 |
| 00:28:07,840 | 00:28:10,360 | 115亿7,317万8千元照列 |
| 00:28:11,360 | 00:28:12,200 | 本级短促 |
| 00:28:12,200 | 00:28:15,040 | 15亿7,101万9千元照列 |
| 00:28:15,040 | 00:28:16,800 | 三 结交公布金额为列数 |
| 00:28:16,800 | 00:28:18,560 | 四 转投资计划为列数 |
| 00:28:18,560 | 00:28:20,200 | 五 固定资产建设改良扩充 |
| 00:28:20,200 | 00:28:22,920 | 33亿6,420万6千元照列 |
| 00:28:22,920 | 00:28:24,880 | 六 国库增拨基金额 |
| 00:28:24,880 | 00:28:27,520 | 13亿1,637万2千元照列 |
| 00:28:28,139 | 00:28:29,620 | 继续通过决议16项 |
| 00:28:29,620 | 00:28:30,939 | 三 特别收入基金 |
| 00:28:30,939 | 00:28:32,100 | 经济特别收入基金 |
| 00:28:33,010 | 00:28:33,690 | 业务计划 |
| 00:28:33,690 | 00:28:36,370 | 一 基金来源与用途审查结果 |
| 00:28:36,370 | 00:28:37,330 | 随同调整 |
| 00:28:37,330 | 00:28:39,770 | 二 基金来源用途及余数 |
| 00:28:39,770 | 00:28:41,090 | 一 基金来源 |
| 00:28:41,090 | 00:28:44,170 | 317亿7,849万1千元照列 |
| 00:28:44,170 | 00:28:44,850 | 基金用途 |
| 00:28:44,850 | 00:28:47,810 | 原列306亿8,784万3千元 |
| 00:28:47,810 | 00:28:49,170 | 简列贸易图款工作计划 |
| 00:28:49,170 | 00:28:50,650 | 向下服务费用支 |
| 00:28:50,650 | 00:28:51,610 | 零费100万元 |
| 00:28:51,610 | 00:28:52,370 | 基金照列 |
| 00:28:52,370 | 00:28:56,290 | 改列为306亿8,684万3千元 |
| 00:28:56,290 | 00:28:56,850 | 本级剩余 |
| 00:28:56,850 | 00:28:58,890 | 原列10亿9,064万8千元 |
| 00:28:58,890 | 00:28:59,890 | 增列100万元 |
| 00:28:59,890 | 00:29:02,450 | 改列为10亿9千164万8千元 |
| 00:29:02,450 | 00:29:03,730 | 三 结架公布列数 |
| 00:29:04,760 | 00:29:06,560 | 是通过决议101项 |
| 00:29:06,560 | 00:29:07,800 | 是特别收入基金 |
| 00:29:07,800 | 00:29:09,240 | 核能发电后端营营基金 |
| 00:29:09,770 | 00:29:10,889 | 一 业务计划 |
| 00:29:10,889 | 00:29:12,810 | 因依据基金来源与用途 |
| 00:29:12,810 | 00:29:14,530 | 审查结果随同调整 |
| 00:29:14,530 | 00:29:16,450 | 二 基金来源用途及余数 |
| 00:29:16,450 | 00:29:17,210 | 基金来源 |
| 00:29:17,210 | 00:29:20,850 | 60亿1627万5千元照列 |
| 00:29:20,850 | 00:29:21,490 | 基金用途 |
| 00:29:21,490 | 00:29:24,690 | 97亿3308万1千元照列 |
| 00:29:24,690 | 00:29:25,650 | 本级短促 |
| 00:29:25,650 | 00:29:28,490 | 37亿1680万6千元照列 |
| 00:29:28,490 | 00:29:29,490 | 结架公布列数 |
| 00:29:30,050 | 00:29:31,930 | 是通过决议13项 |
| 00:29:33,190 | 00:29:35,110 | 115年度中央政府总议宣案 |
| 00:29:35,110 | 00:29:36,350 | 本会负责审查之 |
| 00:29:36,350 | 00:29:38,310 | 互主当务预算营业及非营业部分 |
| 00:29:38,310 | 00:29:40,630 | 基于审查完进女继审查报告 |
| 00:29:40,630 | 00:29:42,510 | 提报财政委员会会诊 |
| 00:29:42,510 | 00:29:43,710 | 本会审查结果 |
| 00:29:43,710 | 00:29:45,030 | 需叫党团协商 |
| 00:29:45,030 | 00:29:46,350 | 本院会讨论时 |
| 00:29:46,350 | 00:29:47,150 | 门会部主管 |
| 00:29:47,150 | 00:29:48,510 | 国家发展委员会主管 |
| 00:29:48,510 | 00:29:50,070 | 非营业预算及 |
| 00:29:50,070 | 00:29:51,630 | 台湾中文股份隐性公司 |
| 00:29:51,630 | 00:29:53,870 | 台湾自来水股份隐性公司部分 |
| 00:29:53,870 | 00:29:56,190 | 由邱吉文自委出席说明 |
| 00:29:56,190 | 00:29:56,990 | 经济部主管 |
| 00:29:56,990 | 00:29:58,070 | 公民交易委员会主管 |
| 00:29:58,070 | 00:29:59,550 | 非营业预算部分 |
| 00:29:59,590 | 00:30:01,070 | 及台湾电力股份隐性公司 |
| 00:30:01,070 | 00:30:02,950 | 台湾糖业股份隐性公司 |
| 00:30:02,950 | 00:30:05,110 | 由洪钊文亦祥出席说明 |
| 00:30:05,110 | 00:30:05,950 | 主席宣告 |
| 00:30:05,950 | 00:30:07,070 | 本次会议通过之决议 |
| 00:30:07,070 | 00:30:08,270 | 文字授权主席及 |
| 00:30:08,270 | 00:30:10,350 | 14年整理上会宣布完毕 |
| 00:30:10,350 | 00:30:10,950 | 好 谢谢 |
| 00:30:12,020 | 00:30:13,460 | 在场没有委员 |
| 00:30:13,460 | 00:30:14,620 | 我们依次度在幕处 |
| 00:30:14,620 | 00:30:15,380 | 在幕处理 |
| 00:30:15,380 | 00:30:16,860 | 好 我们继续进行讨论事项 |
| 00:30:16,860 | 00:30:17,820 | 请一边宣吐 |
| 00:30:17,820 | 00:30:19,420 | 讨论事项 依继续审查 |
| 00:30:20,080 | 00:30:22,040 | 本院委员赖月杨等17人 |
| 00:30:22,040 | 00:30:23,320 | 委员蔡其昌等19人 |
| 00:30:23,320 | 00:30:24,560 | 委员钟家斌等20人 |
| 00:30:24,560 | 00:30:25,960 | 分别拟具能源管理法 |
| 00:30:25,960 | 00:30:27,800 | 部分调研修正查案等3案 |
| 00:30:27,800 | 00:30:29,560 | 本院委员杨强英等21人 |
| 00:30:29,560 | 00:30:30,600 | 拟具能源管理法 |
| 00:30:30,600 | 00:30:32,240 | 第7条调研修正查案 |
| 00:30:32,240 | 00:30:33,960 | 本院委员邱立仪等17人 |
| 00:30:33,960 | 00:30:35,199 | 拟具能源管理法 |
| 00:30:35,199 | 00:30:37,000 | 增定第19条之2及 |
| 00:30:37,000 | 00:30:39,280 | 第27条之1调研修正查案 |
| 00:30:39,280 | 00:30:39,960 | 2 审查 |
| 00:30:40,520 | 00:30:42,480 | 6 行政刊写审议能源管理法 |
| 00:30:42,480 | 00:30:44,080 | 部分调研修正查案 |
| 00:30:44,080 | 00:30:46,879 | 7 本院委员郑天才等17人 |
| 00:30:46,879 | 00:30:48,240 | 委员徐欣颖等16人 |
| 00:30:48,240 | 00:30:49,720 | 委员杨秋英等23人 |
| 00:30:49,720 | 00:30:51,040 | 委员陈婷菲等20人 |
| 00:30:51,040 | 00:30:52,680 | 委员邱志文等16人 |
| 00:30:52,680 | 00:30:53,920 | 分别拟具能源管理法 |
| 00:30:53,920 | 00:30:55,720 | 部分调研修正查案等5案 |
| 00:30:55,720 | 00:30:57,480 | 把本院委员郭国文等16人 |
| 00:30:57,480 | 00:30:58,639 | 拟具能源管理法 |
| 00:30:58,639 | 00:31:00,280 | 增定第19条之2及 |
| 00:31:00,280 | 00:31:02,400 | 第27条之1调研修正查案 |
| 00:31:02,400 | 00:31:04,160 | 9 本院委员郑天才等16人 |
| 00:31:04,160 | 00:31:05,360 | 拟具能源管理法 |
| 00:31:05,360 | 00:31:06,760 | 第2条调研修正查案 |
| 00:31:06,760 | 00:31:07,320 | 宣言毕 |
| 00:31:10,080 | 00:31:10,639 | 好 |
| 00:31:11,640 | 00:31:12,320 | 这个 |
| 00:31:12,850 | 00:31:16,209 | 本期所排列议程是 |
| 00:31:16,760 | 00:31:19,120 | 所列的讨论事项为 |
| 00:31:19,120 | 00:31:21,600 | 能源管理法部分调研修正查案 |
| 00:31:21,600 | 00:31:22,920 | 一共有13案 |
| 00:31:22,920 | 00:31:25,000 | 本日只有进行巡达 |
| 00:31:25,689 | 00:31:27,490 | 不做调温的处理 |
| 00:31:27,490 | 00:31:27,810 | 好 |
| 00:31:27,810 | 00:31:30,610 | 我们现在先请经济部 |
| 00:31:30,610 | 00:31:32,129 | 共鸣星港府长 |
| 00:31:32,129 | 00:31:34,010 | 就委员提案跟行政版本 |
| 00:31:34,010 | 00:31:34,889 | 做合并报告 |
| 00:31:34,889 | 00:31:35,490 | 请港府长 |
| 00:31:45,290 | 00:31:46,650 | 今天很感谢 |
| 00:31:46,650 | 00:31:48,810 | 会委员会邀请相关单位 |
| 00:31:50,950 | 00:31:52,990 | 本部共同来探讨 |
| 00:31:52,990 | 00:31:55,990 | 能源管理法修正查案的相关提案 |
| 00:31:55,990 | 00:31:57,670 | 本人非常荣幸有这个机会 |
| 00:31:57,670 | 00:32:00,230 | 向会委员会的委员提出报告 |
| 00:32:00,230 | 00:32:02,470 | 敬请各位委员不吝指教 |
| 00:32:03,280 | 00:32:05,680 | 有关于能源管理法 |
| 00:32:05,680 | 00:32:08,040 | 是规范我国能源需求面 |
| 00:32:08,040 | 00:32:11,040 | 绝对能源跟能源效率管理的主要法律 |
| 00:32:11,590 | 00:32:14,350 | 那本次行政院跟各位委员 |
| 00:32:14,350 | 00:32:16,350 | 拟具的能源管理法 |
| 00:32:16,350 | 00:32:19,270 | 修正的查案总计有13案 |
| 00:32:19,270 | 00:32:21,550 | 那有关于本次的 |
| 00:32:21,550 | 00:32:23,510 | 行政院审议通过的版本 |
| 00:32:23,510 | 00:32:24,550 | 修法的重点 |
| 00:32:24,550 | 00:32:27,149 | 大致可归纳为五个方向 |
| 00:32:28,000 | 00:32:30,720 | 第一个是将再生能源还有热能 |
| 00:32:30,720 | 00:32:33,080 | 纳入的能源范围 |
| 00:32:33,080 | 00:32:35,480 | 以因应新兴的能源管理的需要 |
| 00:32:36,330 | 00:32:39,850 | 第二个是公开能源销售统计资料 |
| 00:32:40,400 | 00:32:42,480 | 以去识别化的方式 |
| 00:32:42,480 | 00:32:46,160 | 公开行业别、区域别、用电等等的资讯 |
| 00:32:46,160 | 00:32:48,960 | 将有助于规划因地制宜的节能措施 |
| 00:32:49,600 | 00:32:51,800 | 第三是增定能源大户 |
| 00:32:51,800 | 00:32:54,600 | 因设置、自用发电跟储能设备 |
| 00:32:54,600 | 00:32:58,720 | 有助于强化企业界它能源自己的能力 |
| 00:32:59,320 | 00:33:03,240 | 第四个是强化地方政府节能的稽查能量 |
| 00:33:03,240 | 00:33:06,080 | 落实地方节能措施的执行角色 |
| 00:33:06,080 | 00:33:08,760 | 第五是加重违法的罚折 |
| 00:33:08,760 | 00:33:11,639 | 以提高这个罚款金额的上限 |
| 00:33:11,639 | 00:33:14,919 | 公布违法业者的名称跟事由等等 |
| 00:33:14,919 | 00:33:16,840 | 来促使业者重视节能 |
| 00:33:18,000 | 00:33:22,880 | 另外有关于大院所拟据的修正案 |
| 00:33:22,880 | 00:33:25,040 | 考量到数量比较多 |
| 00:33:25,040 | 00:33:26,800 | 针对各位委员提案 |
| 00:33:26,800 | 00:33:30,520 | 本部已经按照这个次序提出了书面报告 |
| 00:33:30,520 | 00:33:34,880 | 以下我就综合进行口头说明 |
| 00:33:34,880 | 00:33:37,200 | 首先事实上多数的提案 |
| 00:33:37,200 | 00:33:39,360 | 委员多数提案的内容 |
| 00:33:39,360 | 00:33:43,120 | 跟行政院审议的版本大致上是差不多的 |
| 00:33:43,120 | 00:33:47,760 | 包括了第二条、第六条、六至一条 |
| 00:33:47,760 | 00:33:51,320 | 第七条、第九条、第十条、十八条 |
| 00:33:51,320 | 00:33:53,560 | 等等相关的条例的修正 |
| 00:33:53,560 | 00:33:55,480 | 大致方向是一样的 |
| 00:33:55,480 | 00:33:57,920 | 但是除此之外 |
| 00:33:57,920 | 00:34:00,400 | 也有委员针对特定的议题 |
| 00:34:00,400 | 00:34:01,879 | 有另外的提案 |
| 00:34:01,879 | 00:34:04,640 | 大概有五个案子以下做说明 |
| 00:34:04,640 | 00:34:07,680 | 第一个是针对针对3C1条的部分 |
| 00:34:07,680 | 00:34:10,520 | 就中央主管机关应协助公务机关 |
| 00:34:10,520 | 00:34:13,120 | 还有公有机关、公有事业机关 |
| 00:34:13,159 | 00:34:18,000 | 订定节约的这个目标跟实行的计划 |
| 00:34:18,000 | 00:34:19,560 | 那考量到基本上这个 |
| 00:34:19,560 | 00:34:22,400 | 现行的架构跟管理的机制已经有了 |
| 00:34:22,400 | 00:34:24,839 | 所以我们是不是就建议回归到 |
| 00:34:24,839 | 00:34:26,560 | 现行的相关法制来办理 |
| 00:34:27,600 | 00:34:31,400 | 第二点是针对第五条 |
| 00:34:31,400 | 00:34:34,520 | 增定能源研究的基金的用途 |
| 00:34:34,520 | 00:34:37,880 | 用来补助跟奖励推广的能源 |
| 00:34:37,880 | 00:34:41,600 | 提高能源使用效率的设备跟机具 |
| 00:34:41,600 | 00:34:43,480 | 那考量到这样的目的 |
| 00:34:43,480 | 00:34:47,080 | 已经涵盖在第二条的第二项第二款 |
| 00:34:47,080 | 00:34:51,040 | 那大致上的这个制印也在进行当中 |
| 00:34:51,040 | 00:34:53,120 | 是不是也建议维持现行的条文 |
| 00:34:54,120 | 00:34:56,319 | 那第三点是针对第七条 |
| 00:34:56,319 | 00:34:58,040 | 增定能源供应事业 |
| 00:34:58,040 | 00:35:03,360 | 因设置能源除能设备以及设置节能设备 |
| 00:35:03,360 | 00:35:06,480 | 那考量到现在的这个电业法 |
| 00:35:06,480 | 00:35:08,920 | 已经有类似的相关的规范 |
| 00:35:08,920 | 00:35:10,840 | 是不是我们建议就是维持 |
| 00:35:10,840 | 00:35:13,480 | 行政院审议过的这些版本 |
| 00:35:13,480 | 00:35:16,840 | 那第四点就是针对于第七条之一 |
| 00:35:16,840 | 00:35:18,200 | 还有第十条之一 |
| 00:35:18,200 | 00:35:20,520 | 救火力发电还有气电工声设备 |
| 00:35:20,520 | 00:35:23,640 | 因申报机组还有排放的资料 |
| 00:35:23,680 | 00:35:25,200 | 那考量到现在 |
| 00:35:25,200 | 00:35:26,720 | 电业法的第六十六条 |
| 00:35:26,720 | 00:35:29,359 | 还有能源管理法的第七条 |
| 00:35:29,359 | 00:35:30,680 | 第十二条 |
| 00:35:30,680 | 00:35:32,879 | 已经分别有相关的规范 |
| 00:35:32,879 | 00:35:35,400 | 申报的一些规定 |
| 00:35:35,400 | 00:35:38,319 | 是不是就建议维持现行的 |
| 00:35:38,319 | 00:35:40,040 | 这个申报的相关的资料 |
| 00:35:40,730 | 00:35:42,210 | 那第五点是针对 |
| 00:35:42,210 | 00:35:44,050 | 增定第十九条之二 |
| 00:35:44,050 | 00:35:45,610 | 还有它的法则 |
| 00:35:45,610 | 00:35:47,010 | 不得故意散播 |
| 00:35:47,010 | 00:35:48,410 | 影响国家能源供应 |
| 00:35:48,410 | 00:35:51,450 | 还有能源这个基础设置 |
| 00:35:51,450 | 00:35:53,250 | 不实谣言跟假讯息 |
| 00:35:53,250 | 00:35:56,410 | 那这个部分我们尊重开放讨论 |
| 00:35:56,410 | 00:35:57,490 | 那整体而言 |
| 00:35:57,490 | 00:35:59,850 | 本次的修法将有助于 |
| 00:35:59,850 | 00:36:01,450 | 能源管理的这个透明度 |
| 00:36:01,450 | 00:36:02,770 | 还有执行效率 |
| 00:36:02,770 | 00:36:04,970 | 也能够强化企业 |
| 00:36:04,970 | 00:36:06,170 | 对于节能的意识 |
| 00:36:06,170 | 00:36:07,370 | 还有用电的责任 |
| 00:36:08,070 | 00:36:11,150 | 促使节能能够逐步的落实为 |
| 00:36:11,150 | 00:36:13,150 | 企业日常管理的一部分 |
| 00:36:13,150 | 00:36:15,950 | 那后事将持续掺拙各界的意见 |
| 00:36:15,950 | 00:36:17,630 | 并考整体的考量 |
| 00:36:17,630 | 00:36:19,790 | 电源盘还有再生产发展条例 |
| 00:36:19,790 | 00:36:22,430 | 等等相关法规规的一致性 |
| 00:36:22,430 | 00:36:25,870 | 建议以行政院审议通过的版本为基础 |
| 00:36:25,870 | 00:36:29,670 | 那么跟各位委员来一并审查讨论 |
| 00:36:30,420 | 00:36:32,020 | 以上报告,敬请指教 |
| 00:36:36,090 | 00:36:38,570 | 谢谢国务长详细的报告 |
| 00:36:39,910 | 00:36:43,950 | 这个今日议程讨论是向我们合并的询答 |
| 00:36:43,950 | 00:36:45,190 | 委员咨询之前 |
| 00:36:45,190 | 00:36:47,870 | 主席做以下宣告 |
| 00:36:47,870 | 00:36:50,230 | 每位委员发言时间本会委员六分钟 |
| 00:36:50,230 | 00:36:52,029 | 必要时延长一分钟 |
| 00:36:52,620 | 00:36:54,540 | 非法委员会委员四分钟 |
| 00:36:54,540 | 00:36:55,540 | 上午十点 |
| 00:36:56,320 | 00:36:58,040 | 十点截止发言登记 |
| 00:36:58,040 | 00:36:59,120 | 首先请登记第一位 |
| 00:36:59,120 | 00:37:00,680 | 请邱毅文发言 |
| 00:37:08,540 | 00:37:11,740 | 请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目 |
| 00:37:12,340 | 00:37:14,340 | 我想凑人就让你过 |
| 00:37:18,090 | 00:37:19,890 | 谢谢主席 我请一下港部长 |
| 00:37:19,890 | 00:37:20,890 | 请金金部港部长 |
| 00:37:27,790 | 00:37:28,390 | 部长早 |
| 00:37:28,390 | 00:37:29,709 | 部长我想请教 |
| 00:37:29,709 | 00:37:32,950 | 我们今天在讨论这个能源管理法的修正草案 |
| 00:37:32,950 | 00:37:33,350 | 是 |
| 00:37:35,279 | 00:37:36,959 | 先来看第十条 |
| 00:37:37,319 | 00:37:39,919 | 刚刚您的报告里头也很清楚的谈到 |
| 00:37:39,919 | 00:37:42,120 | 我们在第十条的修正内容是 |
| 00:37:42,120 | 00:37:48,879 | 希望这些用电大户能够自行设置所谓的发电跟除能设备 |
| 00:37:48,879 | 00:37:49,640 | 对不对 |
| 00:37:49,640 | 00:37:50,000 | 是的 |
| 00:37:50,000 | 00:37:50,479 | 好 |
| 00:37:50,479 | 00:37:51,399 | 请教第一个问题 |
| 00:37:51,399 | 00:37:53,879 | 您所谓的用电大户是用电大概多少 |
| 00:37:53,879 | 00:37:55,160 | 算是用电大户 |
| 00:37:55,700 | 00:37:58,620 | 依照我们的再生能源管理条例是5000千瓦 |
| 00:37:58,620 | 00:37:59,819 | 算是用电大户 |
| 00:37:59,819 | 00:38:00,420 | 对不对 |
| 00:38:00,420 | 00:38:01,580 | 这个标准有没有改变 |
| 00:38:03,029 | 00:38:05,990 | 我们是希望在执法里面来做一些讨论 |
| 00:38:05,990 | 00:38:08,509 | 那会跟相关业者做一些讨论 |
| 00:38:08,509 | 00:38:11,590 | 所以你的用电大户的定义还没有定出来 |
| 00:38:11,590 | 00:38:13,310 | 多少叫做用电大户 |
| 00:38:13,310 | 00:38:14,870 | 这个要在执法里面做讨论 |
| 00:38:14,870 | 00:38:17,750 | 但是你母法里面就直接写用电大户 |
| 00:38:17,750 | 00:38:20,710 | 到时候我不知道什么叫用电大户 |
| 00:38:20,710 | 00:38:23,310 | 我要怎么跟你继续讨论下去 |
| 00:38:23,310 | 00:38:24,390 | 事实上大致上 |
| 00:38:24,390 | 00:38:26,029 | 刚刚委员提到的这个 |
| 00:38:26,029 | 00:38:28,990 | 你如果是依照再生能源条例的5000千瓦 |
| 00:38:28,990 | 00:38:30,310 | 算是用电大户 |
| 00:38:30,310 | 00:38:31,830 | 未来的标准会改变吗 |
| 00:38:33,340 | 00:38:35,980 | 执法会大致上这个方向 |
| 00:38:35,980 | 00:38:38,900 | 那我们还会跟利害关系人做一些讨论 |
| 00:38:38,900 | 00:38:40,540 | 不过委员刚刚提的那个 |
| 00:38:40,540 | 00:38:42,140 | 是我们大概一个基础 |
| 00:38:42,140 | 00:38:42,740 | 好 |
| 00:38:42,740 | 00:38:43,380 | 会以那个基础 |
| 00:38:43,380 | 00:38:45,140 | 那第二个问题想请教 |
| 00:38:45,140 | 00:38:50,340 | 如果你这样子界定所谓的用电大户的定义之后 |
| 00:38:51,300 | 00:38:54,460 | 我们的这个条文内容写得非常清楚 |
| 00:38:54,460 | 00:38:59,540 | 要它设置自用的发电跟除能设备 |
| 00:39:00,360 | 00:39:02,160 | 那我进一步请教 |
| 00:39:02,160 | 00:39:03,360 | 这些用电大户 |
| 00:39:03,360 | 00:39:05,600 | 我想未来不可能只有工厂 |
| 00:39:06,130 | 00:39:09,090 | 有可能是这些大型的商贩 |
| 00:39:10,060 | 00:39:12,940 | 或者是大型的商场等等 |
| 00:39:13,799 | 00:39:16,080 | 或者是一些企业的总部 |
| 00:39:16,080 | 00:39:18,480 | 或者是资料中心 |
| 00:39:19,160 | 00:39:23,440 | 未来的这一些AI大数据的这一些资料中心 |
| 00:39:23,440 | 00:39:28,120 | 它可能都会设立在所谓的都会区里头 |
| 00:39:28,120 | 00:39:29,240 | 那我进一步请教 |
| 00:39:29,240 | 00:39:30,640 | 在这些都会区里面 |
| 00:39:30,640 | 00:39:31,960 | 这些建筑 |
| 00:39:31,960 | 00:39:32,759 | 它非常有可能 |
| 00:39:32,759 | 00:39:37,480 | 它缺乏所谓的大面积可以让你做除能的设备 |
| 00:39:37,480 | 00:39:41,120 | 或者是大面积可以让你做所谓的太阳能光电 |
| 00:39:41,120 | 00:39:41,480 | 那它 |
| 00:39:42,410 | 00:39:43,569 | 如何来 |
| 00:39:44,779 | 00:39:47,259 | 符合您的条文里头规定 |
| 00:39:47,259 | 00:39:50,419 | 自用发电跟除能设备 |
| 00:39:50,419 | 00:39:53,459 | 如果它没有足够的空间可以来设立的话 |
| 00:39:53,459 | 00:39:54,459 | 那这些人 |
| 00:39:54,459 | 00:39:55,740 | 他不是不设哦 |
| 00:39:55,740 | 00:39:57,620 | 是他根本没有附地可以设 |
| 00:39:58,100 | 00:39:58,819 | 那请教 |
| 00:39:59,690 | 00:40:02,890 | 我们马上就讲说你没有设的话就罚钱 |
| 00:40:03,550 | 00:40:05,350 | 那请问我们要怎么样协助他们 |
| 00:40:05,970 | 00:40:08,209 | 那八位这个就是我刚刚提到的 |
| 00:40:08,209 | 00:40:11,970 | 就是说为什么我们要跟相关的利害关系人 |
| 00:40:11,970 | 00:40:13,089 | 做一个具体的讨论 |
| 00:40:13,089 | 00:40:15,810 | 要实际上可行才可以 |
| 00:40:15,810 | 00:40:17,209 | 相关的利害关系人是谁 |
| 00:40:17,209 | 00:40:18,009 | 比如说 |
| 00:40:18,009 | 00:40:20,129 | 刚刚您他提到了这个用电档 |
| 00:40:20,129 | 00:40:21,850 | 我讲的这些商办 |
| 00:40:21,850 | 00:40:22,649 | 商场 |
| 00:40:22,649 | 00:40:24,009 | 或者是AI资料中心 |
| 00:40:24,009 | 00:40:24,890 | 对对对 |
| 00:40:25,480 | 00:40:26,680 | 最近有一个 |
| 00:40:26,680 | 00:40:28,360 | 有一个 |
| 00:40:28,360 | 00:40:29,280 | 这个 |
| 00:40:29,280 | 00:40:31,440 | 业者来找我讨论 |
| 00:40:31,440 | 00:40:33,920 | 他们想要在这些商办 |
| 00:40:33,920 | 00:40:35,720 | 或者是大型的商场 |
| 00:40:35,720 | 00:40:39,840 | 去设置所谓的高效率天然气发电机组 |
| 00:40:39,840 | 00:40:41,480 | 部长您知道这件事情吗 |
| 00:40:41,480 | 00:40:43,040 | 就是固定式的这个 |
| 00:40:43,040 | 00:40:43,600 | 对 |
| 00:40:43,600 | 00:40:46,760 | 固定式的所谓的天然气的发电机组 |
| 00:40:46,760 | 00:40:48,040 | 可是呢 |
| 00:40:48,040 | 00:40:50,680 | 现在的法令定定不清楚 |
| 00:40:51,330 | 00:40:54,210 | 所以他这些天然机组的设置 |
| 00:40:54,210 | 00:40:55,090 | 是属于 |
| 00:40:56,110 | 00:40:57,350 | 经济部主管 |
| 00:40:57,350 | 00:40:59,590 | 还是属于地方政府主管 |
| 00:40:59,590 | 00:41:00,950 | 他设置在商场里面 |
| 00:41:00,950 | 00:41:03,430 | 他设置在这个所谓的办公大楼里面 |
| 00:41:03,430 | 00:41:05,030 | 是在台北市 |
| 00:41:05,030 | 00:41:07,310 | 可是台北市又有这一个 |
| 00:41:07,310 | 00:41:09,630 | 都市计划里面的这些管理条例 |
| 00:41:12,380 | 00:41:14,580 | 部长这个当然是很细 |
| 00:41:14,580 | 00:41:17,500 | 所以你们未来在执法的讨论上面 |
| 00:41:17,500 | 00:41:19,340 | 是不是应该 |
| 00:41:19,340 | 00:41:20,340 | 跨部会 |
| 00:41:21,260 | 00:41:23,740 | 来做相关的执法的定定 |
| 00:41:23,740 | 00:41:24,180 | 对 |
| 00:41:24,180 | 00:41:25,900 | 我们不能一开始就告诉你说 |
| 00:41:25,900 | 00:41:26,660 | 你不设的话 |
| 00:41:26,660 | 00:41:27,940 | 我要给你罚钱 |
| 00:41:27,940 | 00:41:29,460 | 但他要怎么设 |
| 00:41:29,460 | 00:41:30,860 | 他能够怎么设立 |
| 00:41:32,220 | 00:41:34,260 | 包括这些除电的设备 |
| 00:41:34,260 | 00:41:35,820 | 发电的设备 |
| 00:41:35,820 | 00:41:37,500 | 在都会地区 |
| 00:41:37,500 | 00:41:38,900 | 他能够怎么设 |
| 00:41:38,900 | 00:41:42,380 | 其实这些大概现在都是一个很模糊的概念 |
| 00:41:42,380 | 00:41:43,700 | 来部长能不能说明一下 |
| 00:41:43,700 | 00:41:44,020 | 是 |
| 00:41:44,020 | 00:41:45,900 | 所以刚刚委员报告 |
| 00:41:45,900 | 00:41:46,780 | 就像您讲的 |
| 00:41:46,780 | 00:41:49,380 | 这个事实上他是非常多元而复杂 |
| 00:41:49,380 | 00:41:50,780 | 所以我们会找厉害关系的人 |
| 00:41:50,780 | 00:41:53,780 | 包括地方政府相关的消防单位 |
| 00:41:53,780 | 00:41:55,380 | 会跨单位 |
| 00:41:55,380 | 00:41:56,900 | 跨机构来做一些讨论 |
| 00:41:56,900 | 00:41:59,940 | 让这个方向可以具体可行 |
| 00:41:59,940 | 00:42:01,660 | 往下走下去 |
| 00:42:02,540 | 00:42:06,060 | 那这个部分什么时候要开始具体进行 |
| 00:42:06,060 | 00:42:07,899 | 只要这个法案通过以后 |
| 00:42:07,899 | 00:42:09,740 | 在一定的 |
| 00:42:09,740 | 00:42:11,220 | 一般是半年内 |
| 00:42:11,220 | 00:42:14,620 | 我们执法就会要设立完成 |
| 00:42:14,620 | 00:42:15,620 | 其实我觉得部长 |
| 00:42:15,620 | 00:42:17,180 | 你如果说等法令通过以后 |
| 00:42:17,180 | 00:42:18,500 | 才把执法设立完成 |
| 00:42:19,330 | 00:42:21,410 | 时序上可能是会有一点慢 |
| 00:42:21,410 | 00:42:23,450 | 是不是应该现在就应该要去 |
| 00:42:23,450 | 00:42:26,850 | 各地区去听取各个业界也好 |
| 00:42:26,850 | 00:42:31,730 | 或者是这些未来有可能是必须被列为用电大户的这些 |
| 00:42:31,730 | 00:42:33,529 | 所谓的你讲的厉害关系人 |
| 00:42:33,529 | 00:42:35,490 | 去听取他们的意见跟想法 |
| 00:42:35,490 | 00:42:36,330 | 因为他们 |
| 00:42:36,330 | 00:42:39,170 | 他们自己应该都会有很多想要做除能 |
| 00:42:39,170 | 00:42:42,770 | 或者是说做自体的这些发电的供电设备 |
| 00:42:42,770 | 00:42:44,650 | 但是法令上面对他们来讲 |
| 00:42:44,650 | 00:42:46,049 | 其实有一点致歃难行 |
| 00:42:46,049 | 00:42:47,930 | 他也不知道要怎么样去申请 |
| 00:42:47,970 | 00:42:50,609 | 是不是你们能够来听取一下他们的意见 |
| 00:42:50,609 | 00:42:53,210 | 我们初步大概有已经有办过两场了 |
| 00:42:53,210 | 00:42:55,129 | 那后续还会持续来办理 |
| 00:42:55,129 | 00:42:57,609 | 那如果说今天讨论大家 |
| 00:42:57,609 | 00:43:00,569 | 对这个方向还是可以认同的话 |
| 00:43:00,569 | 00:43:01,770 | 那我们会加紧 |
| 00:43:01,770 | 00:43:05,490 | 而且把这个场次可以来扩充 |
| 00:43:05,490 | 00:43:08,370 | 另外其实也要再请教部长 |
| 00:43:08,370 | 00:43:10,009 | 关于你们这个第六条之一 |
| 00:43:10,009 | 00:43:14,410 | 你要你要所谓的这个供应事业要去识别化 |
| 00:43:14,450 | 00:43:18,290 | 然后我们要来公布他所谓的 |
| 00:43:18,290 | 00:43:21,490 | 这一些用电的资讯等等 |
| 00:43:21,490 | 00:43:25,970 | 部长这个您觉得会不会涉及到所谓的个资法 |
| 00:43:25,970 | 00:43:28,370 | 或者是对于有些营业秘密 |
| 00:43:28,370 | 00:43:31,370 | 虽然我把公司的名字弄掉 |
| 00:43:31,370 | 00:43:32,250 | 但是其实 |
| 00:43:33,330 | 00:43:36,850 | 有心人还是很容易去做推估 |
| 00:43:36,850 | 00:43:38,570 | 还是很容易去做判别 |
| 00:43:38,570 | 00:43:41,330 | 对 包含我们所谓的去识别化 |
| 00:43:41,330 | 00:43:44,770 | 就是要做到他没有办法判读 |
| 00:43:45,450 | 00:43:46,569 | 要做到这个部分 |
| 00:43:46,569 | 00:43:48,210 | 不是只有吧 |
| 00:43:48,210 | 00:43:51,490 | 你觉得以现在的这些所谓的科技进程 |
| 00:43:51,490 | 00:43:54,210 | 跟现在的这个网络搜寻 |
| 00:43:54,210 | 00:43:56,810 | 你如何把它做到他没有办法判别 |
| 00:43:57,920 | 00:43:59,240 | 我觉得很难 |
| 00:43:59,240 | 00:44:01,600 | 你只要公布是在哪一个工业区 |
| 00:44:01,600 | 00:44:02,800 | 哪一个区块 |
| 00:44:02,800 | 00:44:03,760 | 哪一个地段 |
| 00:44:04,600 | 00:44:05,880 | 用电多少 |
| 00:44:05,880 | 00:44:07,640 | 其实都很容易追溯的 |
| 00:44:09,270 | 00:44:13,190 | 部长这个你们应该要在好好的 |
| 00:44:13,190 | 00:44:14,710 | 慎重的思考 |
| 00:44:14,710 | 00:44:16,990 | 甚至我觉得这个跟本席提的 |
| 00:44:17,770 | 00:44:18,730 | 提的那个法条 |
| 00:44:18,730 | 00:44:21,770 | 其实是有一些相关联系 |
| 00:44:21,770 | 00:44:22,770 | 我的法条讲说 |
| 00:44:22,770 | 00:44:24,330 | 任何人不得故意散播 |
| 00:44:24,330 | 00:44:26,010 | 影响国家能源供应 |
| 00:44:26,010 | 00:44:27,530 | 国家能源基础设施 |
| 00:44:27,530 | 00:44:29,450 | 跟违反科学依据的能源 |
| 00:44:29,450 | 00:44:31,730 | 相关不实的谣言或假讯息 |
| 00:44:31,730 | 00:44:32,810 | 是的 |
| 00:44:32,810 | 00:44:33,690 | 您支持吗 |
| 00:44:34,490 | 00:44:35,930 | 我们是开放讨论 |
| 00:44:35,930 | 00:44:38,089 | 方向上我们也觉得是支持 |
| 00:44:38,089 | 00:44:40,649 | 散播对国家能源不实的讯息 |
| 00:44:40,649 | 00:44:42,569 | 你还跟我讲你要开放讨论 |
| 00:44:42,569 | 00:44:43,370 | 我方向上 |
| 00:44:43,370 | 00:44:46,850 | 你支持你连支持这两个字都不敢讲 |
| 00:44:46,850 | 00:44:47,930 | 我说方向上 |
| 00:44:47,930 | 00:44:49,730 | 你讲说你是开放讨论 |
| 00:44:49,730 | 00:44:51,850 | 后面我说我方向上我支持 |
| 00:44:55,090 | 00:44:56,690 | 保定我相信是这样 |
| 00:44:57,540 | 00:44:59,420 | 很不爱跟你大声 |
| 00:44:59,420 | 00:45:00,660 | 但是我觉得在 |
| 00:45:01,300 | 00:45:03,340 | 你刚讲的这一些对语 |
| 00:45:04,140 | 00:45:06,339 | 用电业者这些公司的 |
| 00:45:06,339 | 00:45:08,380 | 这些所谓的去识别化的部分 |
| 00:45:09,260 | 00:45:11,220 | 机敏资料的保护上面 |
| 00:45:11,880 | 00:45:13,640 | 我觉得你们可能还要再持续的 |
| 00:45:13,640 | 00:45:14,960 | 还要再三思 |
| 00:45:14,960 | 00:45:16,960 | 还在更紧密的思考 |
| 00:45:16,960 | 00:45:18,560 | 因为我不认为 |
| 00:45:18,560 | 00:45:19,240 | 你这样讲 |
| 00:45:19,240 | 00:45:21,080 | 他就完全推估不出来 |
| 00:45:21,080 | 00:45:22,040 | 或者是找不出来 |
| 00:45:22,040 | 00:45:26,360 | 对于这些企业大户的这些用电资讯 |
| 00:45:26,360 | 00:45:28,600 | 那本席提的这个法案 |
| 00:45:29,480 | 00:45:32,600 | 我觉得这个对于国家的能源基础建设 |
| 00:45:32,600 | 00:45:34,600 | 这个是非常重大的 |
| 00:45:34,600 | 00:45:35,360 | 我也其 |
| 00:45:35,940 | 00:45:36,700 | 期待 |
| 00:45:37,920 | 00:45:39,440 | 行政院能够支持 |
| 00:45:39,440 | 00:45:41,440 | 你不要跟我讲说你开放讨论 |
| 00:45:42,300 | 00:45:44,980 | 我觉得散播不时遥远这个区块 |
| 00:45:44,980 | 00:45:47,460 | 不管是在哪一个方位上面来讲 |
| 00:45:47,460 | 00:45:51,140 | 政府都应该要大力的打击这些散播假讯息 |
| 00:45:51,140 | 00:45:52,100 | 好不好 |
| 00:45:53,060 | 00:45:54,180 | 好 谢谢邱英伟 |
| 00:45:54,180 | 00:45:55,180 | 部长 辛苦做 |
| 00:45:56,220 | 00:45:59,339 | 我们先来确定这个上市会议事务 |
| 00:45:59,339 | 00:46:01,259 | 请问在场委员 |
| 00:46:01,259 | 00:46:02,740 | 上市会议事务有收 |
| 00:46:03,800 | 00:46:06,360 | 没有错 我们就确定议事务 |
| 00:46:06,950 | 00:46:08,149 | 好 我们继续质询 |
| 00:46:08,149 | 00:46:09,670 | 下位置请陈廷辉委员 |
| 00:46:15,670 | 00:46:16,830 | 谢谢主席 |
| 00:46:16,830 | 00:46:18,390 | 我们请经济部长 |
| 00:46:18,390 | 00:46:19,470 | 请经济部总部长 |
| 00:46:25,190 | 00:46:26,190 | 邱委员 早安 |
| 00:46:26,190 | 00:46:27,030 | 早 |
| 00:46:27,030 | 00:46:28,710 | 我想这次的修法 |
| 00:46:28,710 | 00:46:30,670 | 包括我们也都有提案 |
| 00:46:30,670 | 00:46:33,630 | 就是能源管理法的一个修正 |
| 00:46:33,630 | 00:46:35,030 | 主要针对说 |
| 00:46:35,030 | 00:46:39,190 | 我们如果去公开能源销售的统计资料 |
| 00:46:39,190 | 00:46:43,830 | 然后能源用户应设置自用发电及除能设备 |
| 00:46:43,830 | 00:46:47,230 | 还有强化地方政府执行的节能 |
| 00:46:47,230 | 00:46:50,310 | 与用能的管理机能量能 |
| 00:46:50,310 | 00:46:51,230 | 机察量能 |
| 00:46:51,350 | 00:46:57,350 | 还有扩大经公告指定特定能源产品的管理授权范围 |
| 00:46:57,350 | 00:47:01,470 | 然后再有加重违法能管法的处罚 |
| 00:47:01,470 | 00:47:04,590 | 及检讨相关的违法态样 |
| 00:47:04,590 | 00:47:07,390 | 大概是这几个重点 |
| 00:47:07,390 | 00:47:12,430 | 但是我们现在如果这个修正草案过了 |
| 00:47:12,430 | 00:47:16,350 | 其实我们最担心的是你执法的定定 |
| 00:47:17,290 | 00:47:20,250 | 其实重点是在执法的定定 |
| 00:47:21,380 | 00:47:22,380 | 大范围 |
| 00:47:22,380 | 00:47:24,780 | 我刚念的都是我们的大范围 |
| 00:47:24,780 | 00:47:27,180 | 也就是这一次修法的重点 |
| 00:47:27,820 | 00:47:28,860 | 可是 |
| 00:47:29,610 | 00:47:33,610 | 现在大家所担心的是你的执法 |
| 00:47:33,610 | 00:47:39,290 | 你到底要怎么定定所谓的用电大户的定力 |
| 00:47:39,290 | 00:47:41,850 | 一定容量一定期限 |
| 00:47:41,850 | 00:47:45,890 | 还有一定装置容量的这些样态 |
| 00:47:45,890 | 00:47:49,930 | 还有如何设置自用发电设备 |
| 00:47:49,930 | 00:47:52,570 | 与除能设备的种类 |
| 00:47:52,570 | 00:47:54,410 | 还有设置方式 |
| 00:47:54,410 | 00:47:58,330 | 甚至是其他相关事项的办法 |
| 00:47:58,370 | 00:48:02,130 | 这些其实都在执法当中要去定定的 |
| 00:48:02,130 | 00:48:05,930 | 可是这些执法还没有方向之前 |
| 00:48:05,930 | 00:48:12,009 | 就会影响到所有这些企业的恐慌跟担忧 |
| 00:48:13,490 | 00:48:16,049 | 所以为什么大家会很担心 |
| 00:48:16,049 | 00:48:18,169 | 就是说你的标准 |
| 00:48:18,169 | 00:48:20,810 | 因为刚刚如果听部长所说的 |
| 00:48:20,810 | 00:48:22,729 | 方向还没有很确定 |
| 00:48:22,729 | 00:48:30,129 | 你说的可能还要了解一个基本概念基础的条件 |
| 00:48:30,129 | 00:48:31,930 | 跟能源管理法相 |
| 00:48:32,560 | 00:48:34,040 | 就是那个 |
| 00:48:34,040 | 00:48:35,440 | 厉害关系人 |
| 00:48:35,440 | 00:48:36,240 | 对 |
| 00:48:36,240 | 00:48:40,240 | 所以这才会影响到大家的担忧 |
| 00:48:40,240 | 00:48:44,280 | 也就是这个能源管理法过了之后 |
| 00:48:44,280 | 00:48:47,080 | 他们会面临什么样的冲击 |
| 00:48:47,080 | 00:48:47,800 | 好 |
| 00:48:47,800 | 00:48:51,240 | 他们是不是要变成是一定要有 |
| 00:48:51,240 | 00:48:55,920 | 所谓的我们经济部定义的用电大户 |
| 00:48:56,700 | 00:49:01,859 | 他们是不是要有设置自用的发电设备 |
| 00:49:01,859 | 00:49:03,500 | 还有除能设备 |
| 00:49:04,420 | 00:49:08,100 | 这些他们会变成一个担忧跟担心 |
| 00:49:08,100 | 00:49:10,700 | 如果我们今天原本一个法 |
| 00:49:11,340 | 00:49:12,820 | 的一个修正 |
| 00:49:12,820 | 00:49:14,500 | 我们是要一个正面的 |
| 00:49:15,740 | 00:49:18,779 | 我们是要让区域更加有芳容 |
| 00:49:18,779 | 00:49:22,299 | 让区域更加有意识 |
| 00:49:22,299 | 00:49:24,859 | 像这个里面有一个重点就是说 |
| 00:49:24,859 | 00:49:25,899 | 好 |
| 00:49:25,899 | 00:49:31,700 | 他要强化地方政府的执行节能与用能管理的稽查量能 |
| 00:49:33,180 | 00:49:35,900 | 这个要怎么跟地方政府 |
| 00:49:35,900 | 00:49:40,660 | 有相对应的这些办法跟稽查的条件 |
| 00:49:40,660 | 00:49:41,860 | 这也是关键 |
| 00:49:42,850 | 00:49:44,930 | 这也是执法里面要定的 |
| 00:49:44,930 | 00:49:46,529 | 不是咱现在过了 |
| 00:49:47,040 | 00:49:48,440 | 你地方政府 |
| 00:49:49,310 | 00:49:50,830 | 各吹各的调 |
| 00:49:50,830 | 00:49:51,790 | 不是 |
| 00:49:51,790 | 00:49:53,590 | 一定要有一个标准 |
| 00:49:55,169 | 00:49:55,930 | 这个部分 |
| 00:49:55,930 | 00:50:00,290 | 当我们今天如果这个修法过了 |
| 00:50:00,290 | 00:50:04,129 | 请问我们的执法什么时候 |
| 00:50:04,830 | 00:50:05,230 | 要 |
| 00:50:05,970 | 00:50:07,250 | 把它推出来 |
| 00:50:07,850 | 00:50:10,090 | 而且部长你不要忘了 |
| 00:50:10,090 | 00:50:14,770 | 我们都市型的厂房跟老旧工业区 |
| 00:50:14,770 | 00:50:18,009 | 他实体的空间就不足了 |
| 00:50:18,009 | 00:50:20,570 | 那我们怎么去协助厂商 |
| 00:50:20,570 | 00:50:25,130 | 去设置这些相关的除能发电设备 |
| 00:50:26,210 | 00:50:27,810 | 你还就考虑到这一点 |
| 00:50:28,800 | 00:50:30,720 | 当然我必须说的 |
| 00:50:30,720 | 00:50:31,880 | 这个是未来 |
| 00:50:32,560 | 00:50:35,400 | 整个能源管理法的修法 |
| 00:50:35,400 | 00:50:37,520 | 这是一个未来的趋势 |
| 00:50:37,520 | 00:50:39,920 | 可是当我们在未来的趋势 |
| 00:50:39,920 | 00:50:44,240 | 跟现在要做一个接轨的时候 |
| 00:50:44,240 | 00:50:47,120 | 一定要有很多磨合期 |
| 00:50:48,310 | 00:50:50,029 | 这些磨合期 |
| 00:50:50,029 | 00:50:52,710 | 请问我们要订定多久 |
| 00:50:53,680 | 00:50:55,319 | 我们要谁来协助 |
| 00:50:55,990 | 00:50:58,029 | 我们要如何来帮忙 |
| 00:50:59,130 | 00:51:00,370 | 这些都是重点 |
| 00:51:00,970 | 00:51:01,450 | 部长 |
| 00:51:02,640 | 00:51:05,080 | 你们已经思考到这个层面了吗 |
| 00:51:05,610 | 00:51:07,130 | 修法很简单了 |
| 00:51:08,010 | 00:51:09,050 | 过于不过 |
| 00:51:09,770 | 00:51:12,130 | 可是修法之后 |
| 00:51:12,130 | 00:51:13,370 | 我的执行面 |
| 00:51:14,000 | 00:51:16,800 | 当你执法没定了你的执行面 |
| 00:51:17,950 | 00:51:21,069 | 要怎么样来把这个磨合期 |
| 00:51:22,220 | 00:51:26,339 | 把这样的担忧跟恐慌说得越小 |
| 00:51:27,190 | 00:51:27,630 | 部长 |
| 00:51:28,360 | 00:51:30,640 | 如果没有我们署长来讲也OK |
| 00:51:32,370 | 00:51:33,650 | 原则上 |
| 00:51:33,650 | 00:51:34,690 | 我想原则 |
| 00:51:34,690 | 00:51:36,690 | 等一下署长会做补充说明 |
| 00:51:36,690 | 00:51:37,490 | 就是说 |
| 00:51:37,490 | 00:51:38,250 | 我们一定 |
| 00:51:38,250 | 00:51:38,970 | 就是 |
| 00:51:38,970 | 00:51:40,930 | 方向上还是用电大户 |
| 00:51:40,930 | 00:51:42,290 | 如果5M以上的 |
| 00:51:42,290 | 00:51:44,650 | 大概现在有700多家 |
| 00:51:44,650 | 00:51:45,370 | 那 |
| 00:51:45,370 | 00:51:46,490 | 但是我们期待 |
| 00:51:46,490 | 00:51:48,770 | 就是说他可以在表后里面 |
| 00:51:48,770 | 00:51:50,250 | 自己有一些 |
| 00:51:50,250 | 00:51:51,049 | 节电 |
| 00:51:51,049 | 00:51:52,130 | 或者是用电 |
| 00:51:52,130 | 00:51:54,170 | 发电的能量跟能力 |
| 00:51:54,170 | 00:51:55,529 | 但是我们一定会 |
| 00:51:56,279 | 00:51:57,959 | 顾及到厂商 |
| 00:51:57,959 | 00:51:59,600 | 他的现实状况 |
| 00:51:59,600 | 00:52:00,520 | 他能不能做到 |
| 00:52:00,520 | 00:52:01,799 | 如果他没有办法做到的话 |
| 00:52:01,799 | 00:52:02,720 | 你强迫他 |
| 00:52:02,720 | 00:52:03,959 | 这样是不对的 |
| 00:52:03,959 | 00:52:05,479 | 所以我们一定在执法里面 |
| 00:52:05,479 | 00:52:06,799 | 为什么要 |
| 00:52:06,799 | 00:52:08,319 | 经过谈好 |
| 00:52:08,319 | 00:52:10,200 | 或怎么样情况之下 |
| 00:52:10,200 | 00:52:11,359 | 让他们可以做到 |
| 00:52:11,359 | 00:52:12,319 | 方向上 |
| 00:52:12,319 | 00:52:13,640 | 而且还会有一个 |
| 00:52:13,640 | 00:52:14,439 | 您刚刚提到的 |
| 00:52:14,439 | 00:52:15,720 | 可能有过渡阶段 |
| 00:52:15,720 | 00:52:17,120 | 一定时间 |
| 00:52:17,120 | 00:52:19,759 | 让他可以真的去磨合事业 |
| 00:52:19,759 | 00:52:21,319 | 过去 |
| 00:52:21,319 | 00:52:23,759 | 过去通常是5年 |
| 00:52:23,759 | 00:52:24,759 | 但是我们现在 |
| 00:52:24,760 | 00:52:26,360 | 还是要跟大家谈 |
| 00:52:26,360 | 00:52:28,560 | 他的困难度怎么样 |
| 00:52:28,560 | 00:52:29,960 | 如果是5年的话 |
| 00:52:29,960 | 00:52:30,960 | 是不是可以做到 |
| 00:52:30,960 | 00:52:31,480 | 或是怎么样 |
| 00:52:31,480 | 00:52:33,360 | 因为整个样态都不一样 |
| 00:52:33,360 | 00:52:33,680 | 对 |
| 00:52:33,680 | 00:52:34,520 | 就我想的 |
| 00:52:35,340 | 00:52:36,940 | 这个都市型的 |
| 00:52:36,940 | 00:52:38,660 | 跟传统型的 |
| 00:52:38,660 | 00:52:39,940 | 他是完全不同的 |
| 00:52:39,940 | 00:52:40,580 | 是 |
| 00:52:40,580 | 00:52:42,340 | 新型的工业区 |
| 00:52:42,340 | 00:52:44,140 | 跟旧的工业区 |
| 00:52:44,140 | 00:52:44,660 | 了解 |
| 00:52:44,660 | 00:52:46,340 | 他的条件也不一样 |
| 00:52:46,340 | 00:52:46,980 | 所以 |
| 00:52:46,980 | 00:52:48,980 | 对也许新开发的部分 |
| 00:52:48,980 | 00:52:49,940 | 我们可能要求会 |
| 00:52:49,940 | 00:52:50,940 | 稍微严格一点 |
| 00:52:50,940 | 00:52:52,780 | 那已经存在的部分 |
| 00:52:52,780 | 00:52:55,420 | 是不是可以用怎么样的形式 |
| 00:52:55,420 | 00:52:56,420 | 要求没有那么严格 |
| 00:52:56,420 | 00:52:57,500 | 因为他既有的厂房 |
| 00:52:57,500 | 00:52:58,540 | 已经在那边了 |
| 00:52:58,540 | 00:53:00,180 | 他没有多出的地方 |
| 00:53:00,180 | 00:53:02,260 | 那他怎么样去处理 |
| 00:53:02,260 | 00:53:02,900 | 这个我们可以 |
| 00:53:02,900 | 00:53:03,740 | 部长为什么 |
| 00:53:03,979 | 00:53:05,339 | 提到这个问题 |
| 00:53:05,339 | 00:53:06,259 | 好 |
| 00:53:06,259 | 00:53:08,299 | 因为这是一个企业发展 |
| 00:53:08,299 | 00:53:09,540 | 一定要 |
| 00:53:09,540 | 00:53:11,459 | 这个能源管理法的修法 |
| 00:53:11,459 | 00:53:13,020 | 这是不得不 |
| 00:53:13,020 | 00:53:14,100 | 一定要面对的 |
| 00:53:14,100 | 00:53:14,740 | 是 |
| 00:53:14,740 | 00:53:16,500 | 可是我们必须 |
| 00:53:16,500 | 00:53:18,859 | 在现在跟 |
| 00:53:18,859 | 00:53:21,459 | 目前的整个样态 |
| 00:53:21,459 | 00:53:23,339 | 我们也要做一些 |
| 00:53:23,339 | 00:53:24,660 | 所谓的 |
| 00:53:24,660 | 00:53:25,819 | 如何 |
| 00:53:25,819 | 00:53:27,180 | 什么样的 |
| 00:53:27,180 | 00:53:29,220 | 要进行到什么程度 |
| 00:53:29,220 | 00:53:30,140 | 第二样态的 |
| 00:53:30,140 | 00:53:31,740 | 进行到什么程度 |
| 00:53:31,740 | 00:53:33,580 | 一定要有这些资料 |
| 00:53:33,620 | 00:53:35,900 | 因为台南市 |
| 00:53:35,900 | 00:53:38,180 | 是工业区最多的 |
| 00:53:38,180 | 00:53:40,620 | 从历届的工业 |
| 00:53:40,620 | 00:53:42,140 | 这个经济部部长 |
| 00:53:42,140 | 00:53:44,940 | 我每次邀请他到台南 |
| 00:53:45,980 | 00:53:48,020 | 大概都吓一跳 |
| 00:53:48,020 | 00:53:48,580 | 就是说 |
| 00:53:49,150 | 00:53:51,230 | 工业区的样态非常多 |
| 00:53:51,780 | 00:53:53,980 | 因为我们是传统 |
| 00:53:54,550 | 00:53:56,590 | 跟高科技 |
| 00:53:56,590 | 00:53:59,790 | 两个相互接应的 |
| 00:53:59,790 | 00:54:01,670 | 一个城市发展 |
| 00:54:02,420 | 00:54:04,300 | 在整个经济面的部分 |
| 00:54:04,300 | 00:54:05,540 | 是这个样子 |
| 00:54:05,540 | 00:54:06,940 | 所以我们必须 |
| 00:54:07,710 | 00:54:10,230 | 我要先拜托部长说 |
| 00:54:10,230 | 00:54:11,710 | 你的样态 |
| 00:54:11,710 | 00:54:12,830 | 其实你只要 |
| 00:54:12,830 | 00:54:14,830 | 抓台南市的整个 |
| 00:54:14,830 | 00:54:16,270 | 工业区的样态 |
| 00:54:16,270 | 00:54:17,910 | 你大概就可以知道 |
| 00:54:17,910 | 00:54:20,590 | 目前所有全国 |
| 00:54:20,590 | 00:54:22,830 | 它的经济企业 |
| 00:54:22,830 | 00:54:25,270 | 工业样态的形式 |
| 00:54:25,270 | 00:54:26,550 | 你要怎么定 |
| 00:54:26,550 | 00:54:28,150 | 要怎么处理 |
| 00:54:28,150 | 00:54:30,350 | 我相信你就会比较有 |
| 00:54:30,350 | 00:54:31,630 | 那个逻辑 |
| 00:54:31,630 | 00:54:32,470 | 好 所以 |
| 00:54:32,470 | 00:54:33,670 | 部长再拜托 |
| 00:54:33,670 | 00:54:34,390 | 谢谢 |
| 00:54:34,390 | 00:54:36,110 | 我刚刚提到的可能 |
| 00:54:36,110 | 00:54:37,110 | 那个 |
| 00:54:37,150 | 00:54:38,350 | 主席站起来了 |
| 00:54:38,350 | 00:54:40,510 | 我再拜托我们的署长 |
| 00:54:40,510 | 00:54:41,750 | 我刚刚问的 |
| 00:54:41,750 | 00:54:43,910 | 你再拜托一个书面给我们 |
| 00:54:43,910 | 00:54:44,950 | 好的 |
| 00:54:44,950 | 00:54:45,910 | 书面给我们 |
| 00:54:45,910 | 00:54:47,950 | 让我们很清楚知道 |
| 00:54:47,950 | 00:54:49,750 | 起码地方 |
| 00:54:49,750 | 00:54:51,950 | 这些工业或是企业 |
| 00:54:51,950 | 00:54:53,630 | 在问我们的时候 |
| 00:54:53,630 | 00:54:55,870 | 我们知道怎么回答 |
| 00:54:55,870 | 00:54:57,270 | 怎么来协助他们 |
| 00:54:57,270 | 00:54:59,910 | 至少样态来讲有新旧 |
| 00:54:59,910 | 00:55:01,070 | 还有都市 |
| 00:55:01,070 | 00:55:01,910 | 还有这个 |
| 00:55:01,910 | 00:55:03,430 | 传统 |
| 00:55:03,430 | 00:55:04,190 | 有不一样 |
| 00:55:04,190 | 00:55:05,750 | 那我们不同的样态 |
| 00:55:05,790 | 00:55:07,790 | 可能要求会有一点点差异 |
| 00:55:07,790 | 00:55:09,390 | 对 而且因为 |
| 00:55:09,390 | 00:55:10,830 | 旧的工业区 |
| 00:55:10,830 | 00:55:14,150 | 它当时候所设置的条件 |
| 00:55:14,150 | 00:55:15,470 | 跟现在设的条件 |
| 00:55:15,470 | 00:55:16,630 | 就是不一样 |
| 00:55:16,630 | 00:55:18,590 | 好 所以这个部分可能 |
| 00:55:18,590 | 00:55:19,750 | 我们要怎么加强 |
| 00:55:19,750 | 00:55:20,910 | 一定要加强 |
| 00:55:20,910 | 00:55:23,510 | 可是怎么样来协助他们 |
| 00:55:23,510 | 00:55:25,870 | 达到我们要的方向 |
| 00:55:25,870 | 00:55:27,550 | 而且是他们能够 |
| 00:55:27,550 | 00:55:28,750 | 无缝接轨 |
| 00:55:28,750 | 00:55:31,270 | 而且有好的一个接轨形式 |
| 00:55:31,270 | 00:55:32,430 | 这才是最重要 |
| 00:55:32,430 | 00:55:33,110 | 好 谢谢 |
| 00:55:34,270 | 00:55:35,630 | 谢谢 谢谢陈定冰委员 |
| 00:55:35,630 | 00:55:36,550 | 还有部长 先回座 |
| 00:55:37,260 | 00:55:38,700 | 好 我们下面之云 请 |
| 00:55:39,290 | 00:55:40,170 | 政政前委员 |
| 00:55:49,020 | 00:55:49,580 | 谢谢主席 |
| 00:55:49,580 | 00:55:51,580 | 我想请一下经济部公民新公部长 |
| 00:55:51,580 | 00:55:52,779 | 请经济部公部长 |
| 00:55:58,750 | 00:55:59,670 | 政委员好 |
| 00:55:59,670 | 00:56:00,830 | 部长好 |
| 00:56:00,830 | 00:56:04,630 | 因为今天安排了能源管理法的一个审查 |
| 00:56:04,630 | 00:56:07,350 | 那因为院板的能源管理法的第十条 |
| 00:56:07,350 | 00:56:08,190 | 很特殊 |
| 00:56:08,190 | 00:56:09,870 | 因为它特别提到说 |
| 00:56:09,870 | 00:56:11,470 | 契约容量达一定容量者 |
| 00:56:11,470 | 00:56:13,590 | 因于一定期限内设置一定 |
| 00:56:13,590 | 00:56:17,230 | 装置容量以上的自用发电设备跟储能设备 |
| 00:56:17,230 | 00:56:18,110 | 那它这里面 |
| 00:56:18,110 | 00:56:19,630 | 其实很多委员也都特别提到 |
| 00:56:19,630 | 00:56:21,270 | 因为它这一条当中的时候 |
| 00:56:21,270 | 00:56:23,750 | 讲到一定的契约容量 |
| 00:56:23,750 | 00:56:25,950 | 一定的装置容量 |
| 00:56:25,950 | 00:56:27,230 | 然后一定的旗舰 |
| 00:56:27,270 | 00:56:29,030 | 全部都用一定的状态 |
| 00:56:29,030 | 00:56:31,550 | 感觉很多的空白授权 |
| 00:56:31,550 | 00:56:33,270 | 那我在这边的时候 |
| 00:56:33,270 | 00:56:34,550 | 就特别把那个 |
| 00:56:34,550 | 00:56:37,830 | 我们之前有个类似相关的一个再生能源法 |
| 00:56:37,830 | 00:56:38,110 | 里面 |
| 00:56:38,110 | 00:56:40,230 | 它职法里面有特别提到 |
| 00:56:40,230 | 00:56:43,910 | 一定契约容量以上的电力用户 |
| 00:56:43,910 | 00:56:48,590 | 因设置再生能源发电设备管理办法 |
| 00:56:48,590 | 00:56:49,790 | 在管理办法当中 |
| 00:56:49,790 | 00:56:51,430 | 是我很具体的要求到 |
| 00:56:51,430 | 00:56:55,870 | 契约容量在五千千瓦以上的用电大户 |
| 00:56:55,910 | 00:56:57,589 | 必须要有契约容量 |
| 00:56:57,589 | 00:57:01,230 | 百分之十的再生能源和储能 |
| 00:57:01,230 | 00:57:01,990 | 那我在想说 |
| 00:57:01,990 | 00:57:04,870 | 因为之前我特别提到说 |
| 00:57:04,870 | 00:57:07,990 | 因为那个我们院版能源管理法当中的 |
| 00:57:07,990 | 00:57:09,230 | 空白授权颇多 |
| 00:57:09,230 | 00:57:10,710 | 那我们就用再生能源法 |
| 00:57:10,710 | 00:57:12,750 | 这边的一个相关的一个办法 |
| 00:57:12,750 | 00:57:15,270 | 去当作一个类推的一个情况 |
| 00:57:15,270 | 00:57:18,350 | 就是五千千瓦这个标准 |
| 00:57:18,350 | 00:57:21,790 | 还有百分之十的那个 |
| 00:57:21,830 | 00:57:26,470 | 契约容量的再生能源跟储能这个部分 |
| 00:57:26,470 | 00:57:28,670 | 会不会变成我们能源管理法 |
| 00:57:28,670 | 00:57:30,710 | 后续职法当中的一个标准 |
| 00:57:32,210 | 00:57:34,050 | 这个是我们参考 |
| 00:57:34,050 | 00:57:34,650 | 参考 |
| 00:57:34,650 | 00:57:35,970 | 参考基准 |
| 00:57:36,560 | 00:57:38,560 | 那但是我们还是要跟厉害关系的人 |
| 00:57:38,560 | 00:57:39,800 | 再做一些讨论 |
| 00:57:39,800 | 00:57:43,440 | 原则上是这个五千千瓦就是五M |
| 00:57:43,440 | 00:57:46,160 | 是大致上有这样有一些横平的标准 |
| 00:57:46,160 | 00:57:48,280 | 你刚才特意提到五M以上 |
| 00:57:48,280 | 00:57:51,080 | 五M以上用电大户大概有七百多家 |
| 00:57:51,080 | 00:57:52,040 | 那我在想说 |
| 00:57:52,040 | 00:57:54,800 | 我们现在用电其实坦白说也挺吃紧的 |
| 00:57:54,800 | 00:57:57,000 | 所以我们对于这个能源管理法当中 |
| 00:57:57,000 | 00:57:58,800 | 契约容量会不会下修 |
| 00:57:58,800 | 00:58:02,600 | 自用发电的比例跟储电的比例会不会提高 |
| 00:58:03,470 | 00:58:05,590 | 包委员可能要有阶段性的 |
| 00:58:05,590 | 00:58:07,270 | 就是我们的要求他 |
| 00:58:07,270 | 00:58:10,550 | 可能在早期的时候就是阶段性 |
| 00:58:10,550 | 00:58:11,910 | 可能刚开始没有那么高 |
| 00:58:11,910 | 00:58:13,830 | 但是慢慢的可能会提高 |
| 00:58:13,830 | 00:58:14,750 | 所以为什么要设在 |
| 00:58:14,750 | 00:58:16,390 | 可能也会超过这个标准 |
| 00:58:16,390 | 00:58:18,910 | 而且在五M以下也可能会被要求 |
| 00:58:18,910 | 00:58:20,070 | 意思是这样子吗 |
| 00:58:20,070 | 00:58:20,590 | 不是 |
| 00:58:20,590 | 00:58:23,190 | 如果五M是一个标准 |
| 00:58:23,190 | 00:58:26,670 | 就是五M以上的这些用电大户七百多家 |
| 00:58:26,670 | 00:58:31,390 | 但是我们希望他达到储能跟自习发电的这个比例 |
| 00:58:31,430 | 00:58:33,350 | 到底是有多少 |
| 00:58:33,350 | 00:58:34,990 | 那可能是刚开始的时候 |
| 00:58:34,990 | 00:58:36,670 | 可能这个比例是比较低一点 |
| 00:58:36,670 | 00:58:38,629 | 那后续慢慢的给他一个过渡期 |
| 00:58:38,629 | 00:58:39,549 | 慢慢增加 |
| 00:58:39,549 | 00:58:42,470 | 因为我觉得电商问题这确实非常的重要 |
| 00:58:42,470 | 00:58:43,109 | 那我只是想说 |
| 00:58:43,109 | 00:58:45,470 | 因为不同的产业他会有差异 |
| 00:58:45,470 | 00:58:47,350 | 我们对于有一些特定的产业 |
| 00:58:47,350 | 00:58:49,270 | 会不会有一些豁免条款 |
| 00:58:49,270 | 00:58:50,509 | 比方说医院 |
| 00:58:50,509 | 00:58:52,509 | 或者是有一些其他的用电大户 |
| 00:58:53,200 | 00:58:55,720 | 这个我们就在执法里面 |
| 00:58:55,720 | 00:58:57,120 | 会有一些考量 |
| 00:58:57,120 | 00:58:58,439 | 就是说刚刚提到 |
| 00:58:58,439 | 00:59:00,439 | 因为很多的样态也不一样 |
| 00:59:00,439 | 00:59:00,839 | 理解 |
| 00:59:00,839 | 00:59:02,319 | 新的工业区跟旧的工业区 |
| 00:59:02,319 | 00:59:03,960 | 新色工业区跟旧的 |
| 00:59:03,960 | 00:59:06,439 | 因为旧的他可能都已经占满了 |
| 00:59:06,439 | 00:59:09,640 | 可能对他的要求跟完全新的部分 |
| 00:59:09,640 | 00:59:10,799 | 可能要求会不一样 |
| 00:59:10,799 | 00:59:11,960 | 如果是完全新的 |
| 00:59:11,960 | 00:59:13,000 | 他弹性很大 |
| 00:59:13,000 | 00:59:14,600 | 我们可能会要求多一点 |
| 00:59:14,600 | 00:59:15,319 | OK |
| 00:59:15,319 | 00:59:16,359 | 那我想说 |
| 00:59:16,359 | 00:59:17,640 | 就是针对这个部分 |
| 00:59:17,640 | 00:59:22,399 | 因为等于是整个能源管理法相关的执法都还没有出来 |
| 00:59:22,400 | 00:59:25,040 | 那我们希望这边考虑能够更为细致 |
| 00:59:25,040 | 00:59:28,000 | 能够考虑到不同产业当中的一个需求 |
| 00:59:28,000 | 00:59:32,160 | 还有厂房先后的相关的问题 |
| 00:59:32,160 | 00:59:33,520 | 我觉得都挺重要 |
| 00:59:33,520 | 00:59:34,640 | 那我觉得这一次当中 |
| 00:59:34,640 | 00:59:36,000 | 我就也特别提到的状态 |
| 00:59:36,000 | 00:59:36,800 | 就是说 |
| 00:59:36,800 | 00:59:41,080 | 因为整个AI产业不断的蓬勃发展 |
| 00:59:41,080 | 00:59:44,920 | 所以我们对北部资料中心用电可能会松绑 |
| 00:59:44,920 | 00:59:46,520 | 那我记得之前台电这边 |
| 00:59:46,520 | 00:59:48,800 | 跟金一部这边一贯的说法是说 |
| 00:59:48,800 | 00:59:50,360 | 苗栗以北 |
| 00:59:50,400 | 00:59:52,960 | 就是新竹韩新竹以北 |
| 00:59:52,960 | 00:59:57,680 | 基本上在5MW的状态是有限制 |
| 00:59:57,680 | 00:59:58,560 | 对不对 |
| 00:59:58,560 | 01:00:01,000 | 那现在讲到说桃园以北的时候 |
| 01:00:01,000 | 01:00:03,520 | 有条件的松绑的时候 |
| 01:00:03,520 | 01:00:06,560 | 那我想请问一下在新竹这一块的时候松不松绑 |
| 01:00:07,660 | 01:00:08,940 | 原则上它是这样 |
| 01:00:08,940 | 01:00:12,140 | 就是说希望如果超过5MW以上 |
| 01:00:12,140 | 01:00:16,620 | 至少离这个电厂要在周边电厂附近有空地 |
| 01:00:16,620 | 01:00:17,580 | 多少叫周边 |
| 01:00:17,580 | 01:00:20,620 | 因为当时金一部跟台电给的说法是 |
| 01:00:20,620 | 01:00:22,940 | 新竹韩新竹以北 |
| 01:00:22,940 | 01:00:27,020 | 那现在是说桃园韩桃园以北的时候准备要松绑 |
| 01:00:27,020 | 01:00:29,140 | 那现在不是全国就只剩下 |
| 01:00:29,140 | 01:00:33,380 | 整个台湾就只剩下新竹这边的时候是不松绑的状态 |
| 01:00:33,380 | 01:00:35,340 | 还是新竹这边也会松绑 |
| 01:00:35,340 | 01:00:36,700 | 如果新竹这边也松绑的话 |
| 01:00:36,700 | 01:00:38,500 | 那这等于是整个台湾基本上 |
| 01:00:38,500 | 01:00:40,740 | 它是可以全面松绑的一个情况 |
| 01:00:40,740 | 01:00:43,580 | 我可以理解这样的一个政策宣示吗 |
| 01:00:43,580 | 01:00:45,419 | 原则上是希望就是说 |
| 01:00:45,419 | 01:00:48,140 | 所谓的周边就是它在电厂有空地 |
| 01:00:48,140 | 01:00:49,379 | 然后符合条件 |
| 01:00:49,379 | 01:00:51,379 | 在两公里左右 |
| 01:00:51,379 | 01:00:52,379 | 这边来讲 |
| 01:00:52,379 | 01:00:54,660 | 我们会跟地方政府做一些讨论 |
| 01:00:54,660 | 01:00:56,819 | 如果有这样的条件情况下的话 |
| 01:00:56,819 | 01:00:57,500 | 那就可以 |
| 01:00:57,500 | 01:00:59,700 | 电厂两公里周边的范围 |
| 01:00:59,700 | 01:01:02,220 | 才可以设置那个栓立中心 |
| 01:01:02,220 | 01:01:03,620 | 你的历史是这样子吗 |
| 01:01:03,620 | 01:01:04,660 | 目前看起来 |
| 01:01:04,700 | 01:01:06,299 | 除非有其他的条件 |
| 01:01:06,299 | 01:01:08,299 | 也可以来讨论 |
| 01:01:09,460 | 01:01:10,779 | 所以目前看起来 |
| 01:01:10,779 | 01:01:13,220 | 在新竹这个部分来说的时候 |
| 01:01:13,220 | 01:01:15,379 | 感觉并不在你们松绑的范围 |
| 01:01:15,379 | 01:01:15,819 | 是这样子 |
| 01:01:15,819 | 01:01:18,980 | 所以新竹这边如果要设置栓立中心的时候 |
| 01:01:18,980 | 01:01:19,899 | 到5Mbps的时候 |
| 01:01:19,899 | 01:01:21,140 | 基本上是不可能的 |
| 01:01:21,140 | 01:01:23,140 | 我可以这么理解你的意思吗 |
| 01:01:28,440 | 01:01:31,560 | 新竹市这边没有电厂 |
| 01:01:31,560 | 01:01:33,360 | 两公里范围内没有 |
| 01:01:33,360 | 01:01:35,800 | 那因为你们之前的宣示是说 |
| 01:01:35,800 | 01:01:37,400 | 苗栗以北的时候 |
| 01:01:39,350 | 01:01:40,790 | 现在说桃园以北 |
| 01:01:40,790 | 01:01:42,510 | 那苗栗以北跟桃园以北 |
| 01:01:42,510 | 01:01:44,030 | 这边就只卡一个新竹 |
| 01:01:44,990 | 01:01:45,750 | 报告委员 |
| 01:01:45,750 | 01:01:47,310 | 那我们针对新竹部分 |
| 01:01:47,310 | 01:01:50,790 | 目前是没有在限制5Mbps |
| 01:01:50,790 | 01:01:54,470 | 但是要检讨它本身的一个供电 |
| 01:01:54,470 | 01:01:56,509 | 所以新竹现在没有限制5Mbps是不是 |
| 01:01:56,509 | 01:01:57,990 | 之前台电都是说 |
| 01:01:57,990 | 01:01:59,750 | 新竹含新竹以北 |
| 01:01:59,750 | 01:02:00,509 | 是限制的 |
| 01:02:00,509 | 01:02:01,229 | 我们是希望 |
| 01:02:01,229 | 01:02:02,270 | 现在是没有 |
| 01:02:02,270 | 01:02:04,109 | 我们是希望尽量让那个 |
| 01:02:04,109 | 01:02:05,589 | 好没有就好 |
| 01:02:05,589 | 01:02:06,470 | 那我想说 |
| 01:02:06,470 | 01:02:07,950 | 因为针对这个部分的时候 |
| 01:02:07,950 | 01:02:09,189 | 我这边也想特别提到 |
| 01:02:09,189 | 01:02:11,870 | 因为大潭电厂跟协和电厂这边 |
| 01:02:11,870 | 01:02:13,870 | 大潭电厂是用天然气发电 |
| 01:02:13,870 | 01:02:16,069 | 协和电厂这边的时候是用油 |
| 01:02:16,069 | 01:02:18,069 | 以后可能会变天然气 |
| 01:02:18,069 | 01:02:19,670 | 油会变天然气 |
| 01:02:19,670 | 01:02:20,430 | ok |
| 01:02:20,430 | 01:02:21,390 | 那我在想说 |
| 01:02:21,390 | 01:02:24,430 | 因为现在国际的四大云端服务厂商 |
| 01:02:24,430 | 01:02:26,069 | 包括Google Cloud |
| 01:02:26,069 | 01:02:27,350 | Microsoft Azure |
| 01:02:27,350 | 01:02:29,150 | 还有AWS |
| 01:02:29,150 | 01:02:32,270 | 他们全部都是R100的成员 |
| 01:02:32,270 | 01:02:33,830 | 他们也都宣布 |
| 01:02:33,830 | 01:02:35,310 | 就是 |
| 01:02:35,310 | 01:02:36,589 | 就R100这边的时候 |
| 01:02:36,589 | 01:02:38,790 | 基本上都要用再生能源发电状态 |
| 01:02:38,790 | 01:02:40,910 | 那我们台湾这边现在的话 |
| 01:02:40,910 | 01:02:42,950 | 包括大潭包括协和 |
| 01:02:42,950 | 01:02:45,029 | 都是用火力发电 |
| 01:02:45,029 | 01:02:45,990 | 那这样子的时候 |
| 01:02:45,990 | 01:02:47,270 | 会不会产生一个冲突 |
| 01:02:48,030 | 01:02:49,310 | 将来如果火力 |
| 01:02:49,310 | 01:02:50,630 | 我们当然是希望 |
| 01:02:50,630 | 01:02:53,710 | 现在尽量的再生能源赶快发展 |
| 01:02:53,710 | 01:02:55,950 | 那如果说将来天然气发电 |
| 01:02:55,950 | 01:02:57,830 | 如果要符合R100的话 |
| 01:02:57,830 | 01:03:00,310 | 它必须配合CCS |
| 01:03:00,310 | 01:03:00,670 | ok |
| 01:03:00,670 | 01:03:02,510 | 就是配合碳捕捉然后储存 |
| 01:03:02,510 | 01:03:04,270 | 好那最后这边的时候 |
| 01:03:04,270 | 01:03:05,270 | 我再补充 |
| 01:03:05,270 | 01:03:06,390 | 问一个问题一下 |
| 01:03:06,390 | 01:03:07,390 | 就是说 |
| 01:03:07,390 | 01:03:09,950 | 外交部还有针对巴布雅尔纽吉内亚 |
| 01:03:09,950 | 01:03:12,710 | 这边的时候的一个天然气采购 |
| 01:03:12,710 | 01:03:15,430 | 觉得要重新再检讨这个部分 |
| 01:03:15,430 | 01:03:16,510 | 我不知道说 |
| 01:03:16,550 | 01:03:18,430 | 外交部在宣布这个事情之前 |
| 01:03:18,430 | 01:03:20,030 | 所以有没有找过经济部 |
| 01:03:20,030 | 01:03:21,590 | 跟能源署这边讨论过 |
| 01:03:23,220 | 01:03:24,220 | 讨论过是不是 |
| 01:03:24,220 | 01:03:25,180 | 那是非正式的 |
| 01:03:25,180 | 01:03:26,300 | 我们有做一些讨论 |
| 01:03:26,300 | 01:03:27,580 | 非正式的讨论 |
| 01:03:27,580 | 01:03:29,220 | 所以经济部也觉得说 |
| 01:03:29,220 | 01:03:32,020 | 基本上如果外交部希望把 |
| 01:03:32,020 | 01:03:35,300 | 那个天然气采购变成一个外交的一个 |
| 01:03:35,300 | 01:03:36,580 | 反制工具 |
| 01:03:36,580 | 01:03:37,940 | 我觉得是可行的吗 |
| 01:03:37,940 | 01:03:39,300 | 不是外交部是询问我们 |
| 01:03:39,300 | 01:03:40,060 | 就是说 |
| 01:03:40,060 | 01:03:41,500 | 如果要采取 |
| 01:03:41,500 | 01:03:43,100 | 方氏糖会不会影响到 |
| 01:03:43,100 | 01:03:45,020 | 我们能源韧性安全的问题 |
| 01:03:45,020 | 01:03:45,940 | 它有这样的问题 |
| 01:03:45,940 | 01:03:47,500 | 那我们就会去盘点 |
| 01:03:47,500 | 01:03:48,820 | 你们觉得会不会 |
| 01:03:48,820 | 01:03:50,620 | 在某一个程度之下 |
| 01:03:50,620 | 01:03:52,180 | 是我们可以因应的 |
| 01:03:52,419 | 01:03:54,020 | 什么样的程度 |
| 01:03:54,020 | 01:03:54,419 | 就是 |
| 01:03:54,419 | 01:03:55,660 | 具体回答 |
| 01:03:55,660 | 01:03:58,140 | 因为我们跟这个 |
| 01:03:58,140 | 01:03:59,379 | 八牛买的部分 |
| 01:03:59,379 | 01:04:02,740 | 有分为长约跟现货市场的部分 |
| 01:04:02,740 | 01:04:03,940 | 那长约的部分 |
| 01:04:03,940 | 01:04:05,299 | 基本上是很难去改的 |
| 01:04:05,299 | 01:04:06,980 | 部长因为5月份的时候 |
| 01:04:06,980 | 01:04:09,980 | 我们从发表了解内亚的进口的LNG |
| 01:04:09,980 | 01:04:13,379 | 已经达到11.91% |
| 01:04:13,379 | 01:04:15,540 | 它等于是影响到台湾 |
| 01:04:15,540 | 01:04:17,180 | 整个以1到5月 |
| 01:04:17,180 | 01:04:20,379 | 50.5%天然气的供电的状态 |
| 01:04:21,260 | 01:04:23,220 | 已经达到6%的一个比例 |
| 01:04:23,220 | 01:04:24,940 | 我们如果针对这个部分 |
| 01:04:24,940 | 01:04:25,780 | 去做 |
| 01:04:25,780 | 01:04:28,340 | 针对巴布亚尼亚这边的天然气采购的时候 |
| 01:04:28,340 | 01:04:30,660 | 去当做一个外交工具的时候 |
| 01:04:30,660 | 01:04:33,300 | 你就对台湾的用电会不会产生影响 |
| 01:04:33,300 | 01:04:35,260 | 报告委员这个是 |
| 01:04:35,260 | 01:04:37,620 | 不会影响到我们天然气的采购 |
| 01:04:37,620 | 01:04:38,980 | 这个是条件跟原则 |
| 01:04:38,980 | 01:04:40,260 | 不会影响天然气采购 |
| 01:04:40,260 | 01:04:41,260 | 这个原则之下 |
| 01:04:41,260 | 01:04:42,700 | 我们可以做一些调整 |
| 01:04:42,700 | 01:04:44,660 | 所以这个外交工具不会影响 |
| 01:04:44,660 | 01:04:48,100 | 台湾对巴布亚牛解内亚的天然气采购 |
| 01:04:48,100 | 01:04:49,060 | 就是说 |
| 01:04:49,060 | 01:04:51,220 | 我们不会影响到我们的 |
| 01:04:51,220 | 01:04:52,420 | 整体的采购 |
| 01:04:53,020 | 01:04:54,020 | 不会影响到 |
| 01:04:54,340 | 01:04:55,580 | 不会影响整体采购 |
| 01:04:55,580 | 01:04:57,380 | 那就减少巴布亚解内亚的采购 |
| 01:04:57,380 | 01:04:58,660 | 去买别的地方 |
| 01:04:59,100 | 01:05:00,460 | 对有可能可以这样做 |
| 01:05:00,460 | 01:05:00,940 | 谢谢 |
| 01:05:00,940 | 01:05:03,259 | 那你觉得整体来说不会受影响 |
| 01:05:03,259 | 01:05:03,900 | 整体不会影响 |
| 01:05:03,900 | 01:05:04,420 | ok理解 |
| 01:05:04,420 | 01:05:05,299 | 好谢谢 |
| 01:05:05,299 | 01:05:06,900 | 好谢谢政委员 |
| 01:05:06,900 | 01:05:08,020 | 来部长先为座 |
| 01:05:09,800 | 01:05:11,720 | 来 下位置请洪影响委员 |
| 01:05:20,470 | 01:05:21,870 | 好 谢谢主席 |
| 01:05:21,870 | 01:05:23,589 | 有请这个 |
| 01:05:23,589 | 01:05:25,109 | 经济部总部 |
| 01:05:31,020 | 01:05:31,980 | 部长早 |
| 01:05:32,580 | 01:05:33,620 | 部长早 |
| 01:05:33,620 | 01:05:35,700 | 我想前面的这个讨论 |
| 01:05:35,700 | 01:05:38,020 | 大家关心的都一样 |
| 01:05:38,020 | 01:05:39,220 | 那我大概 |
| 01:05:39,220 | 01:05:40,620 | 就针对院板 |
| 01:05:41,250 | 01:05:42,770 | 提修正动议 |
| 01:05:42,770 | 01:05:44,290 | 我就没有再提特别法 |
| 01:05:44,290 | 01:05:45,890 | 因为其他的大方向 |
| 01:05:45,890 | 01:05:46,970 | 我大概 |
| 01:05:46,970 | 01:05:49,210 | 遵照其他委员的一个版本 |
| 01:05:49,210 | 01:05:50,410 | 现在主要的问题 |
| 01:05:50,410 | 01:05:53,330 | 我是觉得大概就这几个 |
| 01:05:53,330 | 01:05:54,410 | 那其中 |
| 01:05:54,410 | 01:05:56,290 | 819第9条的话 |
| 01:05:56,290 | 01:05:57,570 | 他是由何备 |
| 01:05:58,190 | 01:05:59,030 | 本来是原法 |
| 01:05:59,030 | 01:05:59,950 | 你们是何备 |
| 01:05:59,950 | 01:06:01,070 | 就要改成何定 |
| 01:06:01,670 | 01:06:04,350 | 第10条是最大的concern |
| 01:06:04,350 | 01:06:05,790 | 要求一定契约容量 |
| 01:06:05,790 | 01:06:07,630 | 以上用户自行设置 |
| 01:06:07,630 | 01:06:08,710 | 但这个语意 |
| 01:06:08,710 | 01:06:10,310 | 非常的不详 |
| 01:06:10,310 | 01:06:11,310 | 因为就是一定的 |
| 01:06:11,310 | 01:06:13,230 | 这个契约容量用户 |
| 01:06:13,230 | 01:06:14,470 | 那当然第24条 |
| 01:06:14,470 | 01:06:16,310 | 当然就是对位置设置 |
| 01:06:16,310 | 01:06:18,390 | 或设备不符合采法 |
| 01:06:18,390 | 01:06:19,630 | 我大概针对这几条 |
| 01:06:19,630 | 01:06:20,990 | 比较有一些 |
| 01:06:20,990 | 01:06:22,790 | 意见的一个看法 |
| 01:06:22,790 | 01:06:24,470 | 那我觉得这个大概就是 |
| 01:06:25,200 | 01:06:27,680 | 到底我们再修这个第10条 |
| 01:06:27,680 | 01:06:29,440 | 其实他有他的政策的目的 |
| 01:06:29,440 | 01:06:31,080 | 这个到底是什么 |
| 01:06:31,080 | 01:06:32,160 | 但是从这个法条 |
| 01:06:32,160 | 01:06:33,480 | 这样下来的话 |
| 01:06:33,480 | 01:06:36,080 | 就是你的政策的目的性 |
| 01:06:36,080 | 01:06:38,480 | 到底我们是要先处理缺电 |
| 01:06:38,480 | 01:06:40,560 | 还是尖峰用电要降载 |
| 01:06:40,560 | 01:06:41,759 | 还是我去电网 |
| 01:06:41,759 | 01:06:43,839 | 某些的拥塞不足 |
| 01:06:43,839 | 01:06:46,160 | 还是是契约的备员 |
| 01:06:46,160 | 01:06:47,319 | 我大概列了6个 |
| 01:06:47,319 | 01:06:48,680 | 影响的可能性 |
| 01:06:48,680 | 01:06:50,520 | 在你的影响的对象 |
| 01:06:50,520 | 01:06:51,520 | 所以你第9条 |
| 01:06:51,520 | 01:06:52,759 | 在你人管列管的 |
| 01:06:52,759 | 01:06:53,759 | 大概我去统计 |
| 01:06:53,760 | 01:06:55,560 | 大概4900多家 |
| 01:06:55,560 | 01:06:56,560 | 然后第10条 |
| 01:06:56,560 | 01:06:58,360 | 因为你达一定器材容量 |
| 01:06:58,360 | 01:07:00,000 | 那刚刚如果用部长回答 |
| 01:07:00,000 | 01:07:02,520 | 5MW大概是700多 |
| 01:07:03,430 | 01:07:04,549 | 企业的成本 |
| 01:07:04,549 | 01:07:06,190 | 执行的可行性 |
| 01:07:06,190 | 01:07:07,670 | 也有其他委员提到 |
| 01:07:07,670 | 01:07:09,629 | 所以我一看我就觉得说 |
| 01:07:09,629 | 01:07:10,710 | 那其他的 |
| 01:07:10,710 | 01:07:11,870 | 不管是半导体 |
| 01:07:11,870 | 01:07:13,150 | 自动讯AI资料 |
| 01:07:13,150 | 01:07:15,270 | 传采医院学校 |
| 01:07:15,270 | 01:07:16,790 | 这些是不是都要纳入 |
| 01:07:16,790 | 01:07:17,790 | 因为他可能也是一定 |
| 01:07:17,790 | 01:07:18,830 | 企业容量的一个 |
| 01:07:18,830 | 01:07:20,790 | 用电的一个大户 |
| 01:07:20,790 | 01:07:22,990 | 那程序的正当性 |
| 01:07:22,990 | 01:07:24,750 | 还有替代的一个方案 |
| 01:07:24,750 | 01:07:27,190 | 这个大概是我看这第10条 |
| 01:07:27,190 | 01:07:28,470 | 我觉得会有这些问题 |
| 01:07:29,509 | 01:07:31,709 | 那我讲因为时间有限 |
| 01:07:31,709 | 01:07:32,149 | 就是说 |
| 01:07:32,750 | 01:07:33,630 | 假设啊 |
| 01:07:33,630 | 01:07:34,710 | 你现在的话 |
| 01:07:34,710 | 01:07:36,310 | 我们现在是何备改合定 |
| 01:07:37,420 | 01:07:39,740 | 那你在第9条所列管的 |
| 01:07:39,740 | 01:07:41,340 | 这个4900家的 |
| 01:07:41,340 | 01:07:42,660 | 这样的节能 |
| 01:07:42,660 | 01:07:44,700 | 到底以后是自己决定 |
| 01:07:44,700 | 01:07:46,500 | 还是经济部要批准 |
| 01:07:46,500 | 01:07:47,740 | 而业前是何备 |
| 01:07:47,740 | 01:07:48,340 | 现在是何备 |
| 01:07:50,400 | 01:07:51,640 | 因为当初就是 |
| 01:07:52,390 | 01:07:54,629 | 何备以谊很含糊 |
| 01:07:54,629 | 01:07:55,790 | 到底是 |
| 01:07:55,790 | 01:07:58,150 | 何备有什么失败的案件 |
| 01:07:58,150 | 01:07:58,830 | 还是什么 |
| 01:07:58,830 | 01:07:59,910 | 基本上 |
| 01:07:59,910 | 01:08:01,830 | 假设不与何备的话 |
| 01:08:01,830 | 01:08:04,150 | 也就是不与何定的意思 |
| 01:08:04,150 | 01:08:04,710 | 对啊 |
| 01:08:04,710 | 01:08:05,029 | 对啊 |
| 01:08:05,029 | 01:08:05,870 | 所以我觉得 |
| 01:08:05,870 | 01:08:06,990 | 如果说你改这个 |
| 01:08:06,990 | 01:08:09,150 | 好像也没有什么特别意义 |
| 01:08:09,150 | 01:08:10,029 | 就是讲清楚 |
| 01:08:10,029 | 01:08:11,710 | 就是要一定要何定 |
| 01:08:12,440 | 01:08:14,080 | 不要让雨意模糊 |
| 01:08:14,080 | 01:08:14,960 | 让业者 |
| 01:08:14,960 | 01:08:16,600 | 他们不知道说 |
| 01:08:16,600 | 01:08:17,359 | 这个好像 |
| 01:08:17,359 | 01:08:18,480 | 好像去报备就好了 |
| 01:08:18,480 | 01:08:18,880 | 不是 |
| 01:08:20,030 | 01:08:20,950 | 不与何备 |
| 01:08:20,950 | 01:08:22,190 | 就是不与何定 |
| 01:08:22,190 | 01:08:24,710 | 因为定的管理会比较强烈 |
| 01:08:26,139 | 01:08:26,819 | 理论上 |
| 01:08:26,819 | 01:08:29,179 | 字眼上是比较强烈 |
| 01:08:29,179 | 01:08:30,460 | 因为这样子 |
| 01:08:30,460 | 01:08:31,700 | 下一个我觉得害怕 |
| 01:08:31,700 | 01:08:33,660 | 因为假设我是企业主却说 |
| 01:08:33,660 | 01:08:35,219 | 那企业主管机关 |
| 01:08:35,219 | 01:08:35,939 | 是不是可以要求 |
| 01:08:35,939 | 01:08:37,099 | 我要提高目标 |
| 01:08:37,099 | 01:08:37,899 | 换设备 |
| 01:08:37,899 | 01:08:38,979 | 或改制程 |
| 01:08:38,979 | 01:08:40,099 | 不然你就不何定 |
| 01:08:41,340 | 01:08:42,620 | 你何定的标准 |
| 01:08:42,620 | 01:08:44,700 | 期限 便跟程序这些 |
| 01:08:44,700 | 01:08:45,700 | 你一定会告诉我 |
| 01:08:45,700 | 01:08:46,700 | 这是列入执法 |
| 01:08:46,700 | 01:08:48,779 | 但是我现在就很恐慌 |
| 01:08:48,779 | 01:08:49,980 | 这是一个问题 |
| 01:08:49,980 | 01:08:51,660 | 你们可以书面回答我 |
| 01:08:51,660 | 01:08:52,779 | 因为时间有限了 |
| 01:08:52,779 | 01:08:54,020 | 因为我觉得这个是 |
| 01:08:54,020 | 01:08:56,100 | 因为如果何备何定没什么的话 |
| 01:08:56,100 | 01:08:57,620 | 我其实觉得何备 |
| 01:08:57,620 | 01:08:59,900 | 那你再强烈的抽查也行 |
| 01:08:59,900 | 01:09:00,900 | 再来 |
| 01:09:00,900 | 01:09:02,220 | 你的第十条到底 |
| 01:09:02,220 | 01:09:03,620 | 我们是要解决什么问题 |
| 01:09:03,620 | 01:09:05,860 | 我觉得有点像把这种发电 |
| 01:09:07,260 | 01:09:09,780 | 就给外部丢到企业去 |
| 01:09:09,780 | 01:09:12,340 | 给予企业责任化这样子 |
| 01:09:12,340 | 01:09:13,060 | 会不会 |
| 01:09:13,060 | 01:09:13,740 | 八五元 |
| 01:09:13,740 | 01:09:15,220 | 因为他是用电大户 |
| 01:09:15,220 | 01:09:17,300 | 他好歹对于这个 |
| 01:09:17,300 | 01:09:18,980 | 电力上的韧性 |
| 01:09:18,980 | 01:09:20,700 | 也要负担一些责任 |
| 01:09:20,700 | 01:09:22,020 | 要不然的话 |
| 01:09:22,020 | 01:09:24,140 | 假如发生这个意外事后 |
| 01:09:24,140 | 01:09:25,780 | 那所以你觉得 |
| 01:09:25,780 | 01:09:26,940 | 是要解决他 |
| 01:09:26,940 | 01:09:29,060 | 企业社会责任的问题 |
| 01:09:29,060 | 01:09:30,540 | 不是要处理缺电 |
| 01:09:30,540 | 01:09:32,140 | 韧性 韧性的问题 |
| 01:09:32,140 | 01:09:34,580 | 因为他也是保障他自己 |
| 01:09:34,580 | 01:09:36,620 | 所以是企业自己的韧性的问题 |
| 01:09:37,460 | 01:09:39,580 | 国外大概也有这样的 |
| 01:09:39,580 | 01:09:40,819 | 相关的一些规范 |
| 01:09:42,290 | 01:09:43,290 | 因为我觉得这个 |
| 01:09:43,290 | 01:09:45,050 | 这个真的要想清楚 |
| 01:09:45,050 | 01:09:46,689 | 因为这几个问题不一样 |
| 01:09:46,689 | 01:09:47,890 | 如果你是台电 |
| 01:09:47,890 | 01:09:50,210 | 整个在供应经济发展有缺电 |
| 01:09:50,210 | 01:09:50,810 | 对不对 |
| 01:09:50,810 | 01:09:52,290 | 所以我们希望企业 |
| 01:09:52,290 | 01:09:54,690 | 自主设备 发电 |
| 01:09:54,690 | 01:09:56,010 | 甚至是除能 |
| 01:09:56,010 | 01:09:57,410 | 那这个地方的话 |
| 01:09:57,410 | 01:09:59,690 | 我们就要去统计你大概缺多少 |
| 01:09:59,690 | 01:10:01,730 | 那区域电网的拥设 |
| 01:10:01,730 | 01:10:02,450 | 这也是一个 |
| 01:10:02,450 | 01:10:03,570 | 因为你不能全国 |
| 01:10:03,570 | 01:10:04,010 | 对不对 |
| 01:10:04,010 | 01:10:06,090 | 乡村跟都市跟产业 |
| 01:10:06,090 | 01:10:07,890 | 他可能整个用电的这个 |
| 01:10:07,890 | 01:10:09,330 | 拥设的程度是不一样 |
| 01:10:09,930 | 01:10:12,090 | 那如果你是尖峰的调度 |
| 01:10:12,090 | 01:10:12,970 | 那尖峰调度 |
| 01:10:12,970 | 01:10:15,490 | 你要求的是可验证的降载量 |
| 01:10:15,490 | 01:10:16,810 | 这些东西就是 |
| 01:10:16,810 | 01:10:18,570 | 你在这个地方 |
| 01:10:18,570 | 01:10:20,650 | 就是说我们背后一定有个动机 |
| 01:10:21,750 | 01:10:23,750 | 那我要解决什么样的问题再下去 |
| 01:10:23,750 | 01:10:25,070 | 你不可能一个东西解决 |
| 01:10:25,070 | 01:10:26,549 | 同时那样的问题 |
| 01:10:26,549 | 01:10:28,150 | 那如果你是讲备员 |
| 01:10:28,150 | 01:10:29,150 | 我如果是讲备员 |
| 01:10:29,150 | 01:10:32,509 | 我企业可能要的是可靠度跟稳压 |
| 01:10:32,509 | 01:10:35,110 | 他可能也不是电量所谓的问题 |
| 01:10:35,110 | 01:10:36,030 | 因为在第十条 |
| 01:10:36,030 | 01:10:37,469 | 我觉得很恐怖的是 |
| 01:10:38,550 | 01:10:41,110 | 等于现在节能的设备这边来讲 |
| 01:10:41,110 | 01:10:41,910 | 相对的 |
| 01:10:41,910 | 01:10:43,910 | 其实不会比发电设备便宜 |
| 01:10:44,929 | 01:10:47,450 | 你现在是要求它是设发电跟 |
| 01:10:47,450 | 01:10:48,209 | 发电跟 |
| 01:10:48,209 | 01:10:49,250 | 跟除能 |
| 01:10:49,250 | 01:10:49,570 | 对对 |
| 01:10:49,570 | 01:10:51,009 | 而且你是用一种核定 |
| 01:10:51,009 | 01:10:52,330 | 然后你如果又不达到 |
| 01:10:52,330 | 01:10:53,809 | 一定的数量设置 |
| 01:10:53,809 | 01:10:55,650 | 又会有罚折 |
| 01:10:55,650 | 01:10:57,209 | 我觉得是不是可以在这边 |
| 01:10:57,209 | 01:10:58,009 | 再思考一下 |
| 01:10:58,009 | 01:11:00,169 | 因为你一定会推到执法去 |
| 01:11:00,169 | 01:11:00,849 | 但是现在就是 |
| 01:11:00,849 | 01:11:02,049 | 我觉得这个大方向 |
| 01:11:02,049 | 01:11:03,250 | 是不是可以用成是 |
| 01:11:03,250 | 01:11:05,250 | 比较鼓励的一个方式 |
| 01:11:07,560 | 01:11:09,120 | 而且你现在是集 |
| 01:11:09,120 | 01:11:10,480 | 有些人他可能是发电 |
| 01:11:10,480 | 01:11:11,360 | 有些人是除能 |
| 01:11:11,360 | 01:11:12,960 | 假设我现在是企业用户 |
| 01:11:12,960 | 01:11:14,360 | 用电大户的话 |
| 01:11:14,360 | 01:11:16,520 | 其实我在虚量反应的话 |
| 01:11:16,520 | 01:11:19,960 | 我其实搞不好我是要买除能的设备就好 |
| 01:11:19,960 | 01:11:21,880 | 然后我用这个离封的东西 |
| 01:11:21,880 | 01:11:23,920 | 去做除能 |
| 01:11:23,920 | 01:11:24,480 | 对不对 |
| 01:11:24,480 | 01:11:26,160 | 那我到尖峰再放电出来 |
| 01:11:26,160 | 01:11:27,680 | 让我的企业的用电控制 |
| 01:11:27,680 | 01:11:32,240 | 所以我们会让发电跟除能之间有一些弹性 |
| 01:11:32,240 | 01:11:33,720 | 对 因为你是用集 |
| 01:11:33,720 | 01:11:34,040 | 我说 |
| 01:11:34,980 | 01:11:36,540 | 因为你是用集 |
| 01:11:36,540 | 01:11:38,099 | 所以我就觉得很恐怖 |
| 01:11:38,099 | 01:11:39,099 | 有些 |
| 01:11:39,099 | 01:11:42,780 | 另外有些他可能认为说我除能很贵 |
| 01:11:42,780 | 01:11:44,740 | 所以我可能买柴油发电机 |
| 01:11:44,740 | 01:11:46,059 | 或是接载生蚵的 |
| 01:11:46,059 | 01:11:47,299 | 可能比较便宜 |
| 01:11:47,299 | 01:11:49,139 | 容许企业端他有个弹性 |
| 01:11:49,139 | 01:11:50,379 | 他可以调配 |
| 01:11:50,379 | 01:11:52,740 | 因为你的法条写的是集 |
| 01:11:52,740 | 01:11:55,219 | 集的话他是可以调配 |
| 01:11:55,219 | 01:11:56,379 | 就是不同的企业 |
| 01:11:56,379 | 01:11:58,379 | 因为集就表示我M的 |
| 01:11:58,379 | 01:11:59,299 | 我两个都要有 |
| 01:11:59,299 | 01:11:59,780 | 但是他 |
| 01:11:59,780 | 01:12:00,740 | 我发电要有 |
| 01:12:00,740 | 01:12:01,820 | 节能也要有 |
| 01:12:01,820 | 01:12:03,059 | 不是他的比例 |
| 01:12:03,260 | 01:12:06,220 | 容许他有一个调整的空间 |
| 01:12:06,220 | 01:12:08,260 | 不是说一定就是50 50这样 |
| 01:12:08,260 | 01:12:09,380 | 不会 |
| 01:12:09,380 | 01:12:13,260 | 因为有些有些企业他觉得他的除能设备可以高一点 |
| 01:12:13,260 | 01:12:13,980 | 所以我是觉得 |
| 01:12:13,980 | 01:12:15,020 | 我是好一点 |
| 01:12:16,980 | 01:12:17,780 | 这个 |
| 01:12:17,780 | 01:12:19,380 | 我觉得你可以去考虑 |
| 01:12:19,380 | 01:12:20,740 | 因为这个是问题 |
| 01:12:20,740 | 01:12:23,940 | 然后这是少数大型企业的问题 |
| 01:12:23,940 | 01:12:25,420 | 还是我们医院学校 |
| 01:12:25,420 | 01:12:27,900 | 甚至我们要鼓励发展的资料中心 |
| 01:12:27,900 | 01:12:29,660 | 传产这些都要全部纳进去 |
| 01:12:29,660 | 01:12:31,420 | 因为刚刚很多文院 |
| 01:12:31,420 | 01:12:32,500 | 一定企业容许 |
| 01:12:32,500 | 01:12:33,860 | 这到底是多少 |
| 01:12:33,860 | 01:12:36,340 | 影响多少电号多少法人 |
| 01:12:36,340 | 01:12:37,540 | 我当初空无法 |
| 01:12:37,540 | 01:12:39,940 | 你们就说这个会影响八千家 |
| 01:12:39,940 | 01:12:42,380 | 我这个看起来影响也是七百五十几家 |
| 01:12:42,380 | 01:12:43,260 | 七百多家 |
| 01:12:43,260 | 01:12:43,660 | 对 |
| 01:12:43,660 | 01:12:45,420 | 那搞不好以后还会再更多 |
| 01:12:45,420 | 01:12:46,020 | 不知道 |
| 01:12:46,060 | 01:12:47,300 | 因为经济发展之后 |
| 01:12:47,300 | 01:12:47,780 | 对不对 |
| 01:12:47,780 | 01:12:49,540 | 他可能会更多 |
| 01:12:49,540 | 01:12:51,900 | 然后他除能完之后能不能卖什么等等 |
| 01:12:51,900 | 01:12:54,580 | 我觉得这个都是很多的问题 |
| 01:12:54,580 | 01:12:56,100 | 所以我是觉得在第十条 |
| 01:12:56,100 | 01:12:58,380 | 这个大方向可能要改一下 |
| 01:12:58,380 | 01:13:00,420 | 那再来就第十条这边 |
| 01:13:00,420 | 01:13:04,020 | 因为第十条是后面的第三地区新增进来的 |
| 01:13:04,020 | 01:13:06,620 | 那是不是有重新公开征询过 |
| 01:13:07,780 | 01:13:09,340 | 你讲第十条是吧 |
| 01:13:09,340 | 01:13:10,380 | 对 |
| 01:13:10,380 | 01:13:11,019 | 我们有 |
| 01:13:11,019 | 01:13:11,900 | 刚刚有提到 |
| 01:13:11,900 | 01:13:13,900 | 就是我们有办过一些座谈会 |
| 01:13:13,900 | 01:13:15,380 | 那座谈会可不可以给我一些 |
| 01:13:15,380 | 01:13:19,019 | 他们的厂商的一些的反应的意见的资料 |
| 01:13:19,019 | 01:13:20,340 | 我觉得要再多办几场 |
| 01:13:20,340 | 01:13:23,380 | 因为现在厂商跟我反应的是很恐怖 |
| 01:13:23,380 | 01:13:26,100 | 他们不知道该怎么办的 |
| 01:13:26,100 | 01:13:28,260 | 然后我觉得还有一个就是说 |
| 01:13:28,260 | 01:13:29,900 | 像你可能在你们的报告 |
| 01:13:29,900 | 01:13:32,300 | 写反对政策委员删除第九条的 |
| 01:13:32,300 | 01:13:35,660 | 达中央主管机关规定数量门槛 |
| 01:13:35,700 | 01:13:39,099 | 旅游是无法估算行政执行成本跟效益 |
| 01:13:39,099 | 01:13:41,980 | 但是我觉得你的第十条连门槛都不敢写 |
| 01:13:43,030 | 01:13:45,230 | 那你也没有试用加速 |
| 01:13:45,230 | 01:13:47,030 | 也没有评估影响成本 |
| 01:13:47,030 | 01:13:49,550 | 我觉得你应该是在做这种效益 |
| 01:13:49,550 | 01:13:51,110 | 因为他那个如果没有门槛的话 |
| 01:13:51,110 | 01:13:52,230 | 我们每一个用户 |
| 01:13:52,230 | 01:13:55,110 | 我们每个各户家庭都会被管到 |
| 01:13:55,970 | 01:13:58,810 | 所以当初为什么会有一定的容量以上 |
| 01:13:58,810 | 01:14:00,250 | 对 我说你要先估算一下 |
| 01:14:00,250 | 01:14:02,410 | 你的执行成本跟成本效益 |
| 01:14:02,410 | 01:14:04,690 | 我们用户有1300万户 |
| 01:14:06,120 | 01:14:07,920 | 我觉得你还是 |
| 01:14:07,920 | 01:14:09,640 | 那你如果有评估完的成本 |
| 01:14:09,640 | 01:14:10,960 | 下一报告再送给我 |
| 01:14:10,960 | 01:14:12,840 | 再看看你是什么评估效益的 |
| 01:14:12,840 | 01:14:13,720 | 好 |
| 01:14:14,940 | 01:14:16,179 | 好 谢谢洪委员 |
| 01:14:16,179 | 01:14:17,460 | 部长先回座 |
| 01:14:17,460 | 01:14:19,940 | 下一位咨询请李玉玲委员 |
| 01:14:34,220 | 01:14:36,260 | 好 谢谢主席 |
| 01:14:36,260 | 01:14:37,420 | 我们请公部长 |
| 01:14:37,420 | 01:14:38,340 | 请进行公部长 |
| 01:14:44,400 | 01:14:45,320 | 李玉玲长 |
| 01:14:45,320 | 01:14:45,759 | 部长 |
| 01:14:46,500 | 01:14:51,380 | 台积电它现在是我们全球半导体供应链的最重要的支柱 |
| 01:14:51,380 | 01:14:54,620 | 也是我们台湾最具有竞争力的跨国的企业 |
| 01:14:54,620 | 01:14:56,780 | 那台积电的每一项投资的决策 |
| 01:14:56,780 | 01:15:00,820 | 都不仅是牵动着企业它本身的一个发展 |
| 01:15:00,820 | 01:15:05,540 | 那也是这个经年代工的这个掌握 |
| 01:15:05,540 | 01:15:07,540 | 先进制程的一个技术 |
| 01:15:07,540 | 01:15:11,340 | 尤其是攸关着我们台湾整个产业的 |
| 01:15:11,340 | 01:15:14,780 | 布局和国家经济的安全 |
| 01:15:14,780 | 01:15:16,380 | 是非常的重要 |
| 01:15:16,380 | 01:15:21,420 | 那尤其是今年来我们全球的对于AI人工智慧的需求 |
| 01:15:21,420 | 01:15:24,100 | 跟整个后续的扩大 |
| 01:15:24,100 | 01:15:28,540 | 年代能够提升了整个晶片的这个重要性 |
| 01:15:28,540 | 01:15:34,940 | 那所以说台积电它在我们世界上各国都有去投资 |
| 01:15:34,940 | 01:15:38,100 | 那本来特别要提到的就是说在美国的部分 |
| 01:15:38,100 | 01:15:42,620 | 在去年的时候它有在投资加码了1000亿 |
| 01:15:42,620 | 01:15:44,580 | 那在今年他们的法说会之后 |
| 01:15:44,620 | 01:15:46,900 | 它又在加码了这个1000亿 |
| 01:15:46,900 | 01:15:48,500 | 这个加码这部分的话 |
| 01:15:48,500 | 01:15:51,180 | 有先经过我们投审会的投审吗 |
| 01:15:51,180 | 01:15:52,180 | 有送来投审吗 |
| 01:15:52,180 | 01:15:56,900 | 它这个只是宣布它的一些未来的投资的计划跟方案 |
| 01:15:56,900 | 01:16:00,380 | 可是美国认为这个是既定事实啦 |
| 01:16:00,380 | 01:16:03,140 | 它实际要投资它会送案子给我们 |
| 01:16:03,140 | 01:16:04,500 | 所以它只是说一说而已 |
| 01:16:04,500 | 01:16:05,460 | 不会实际投资 |
| 01:16:05,460 | 01:16:06,019 | 没有啦 |
| 01:16:06,019 | 01:16:08,059 | 它已经法说会会这样说 |
| 01:16:08,059 | 01:16:09,540 | 它应该会执行 |
| 01:16:09,540 | 01:16:13,059 | 这个是在法说会里面这样的宣布 |
| 01:16:13,059 | 01:16:14,220 | 它不会不去执行 |
| 01:16:14,220 | 01:16:16,020 | 只是说它案子送过来 |
| 01:16:16,020 | 01:16:17,460 | 所以它会去执行嘛 |
| 01:16:17,460 | 01:16:17,780 | 对对对 |
| 01:16:17,780 | 01:16:19,340 | 法说会说了就会去执行 |
| 01:16:19,340 | 01:16:19,820 | 对对对 |
| 01:16:19,820 | 01:16:22,700 | 因为是这个魏董亲自宣布的 |
| 01:16:22,700 | 01:16:24,900 | 那所以说一定要送来我们投审会 |
| 01:16:24,900 | 01:16:25,380 | 会会 |
| 01:16:25,380 | 01:16:25,940 | 为什么 |
| 01:16:25,940 | 01:16:30,060 | 因为台积电它是整个掌控着全世界的这个 |
| 01:16:30,060 | 01:16:32,140 | 就是半导体的这个龙头 |
| 01:16:32,140 | 01:16:32,700 | 是是 |
| 01:16:32,700 | 01:16:36,940 | 所以它的最重要的这个技术啊 |
| 01:16:36,940 | 01:16:37,980 | 关键技术的话 |
| 01:16:37,980 | 01:16:39,100 | 我们要把关 |
| 01:16:39,100 | 01:16:40,860 | 因为外界的话大家会担心啊 |
| 01:16:40,860 | 01:16:43,300 | 我们关键技术会不会外流出去 |
| 01:16:43,300 | 01:16:45,380 | 会不会让我们台湾的经济被掏空 |
| 01:16:45,380 | 01:16:47,780 | 整个供应链会不会下滑掉 |
| 01:16:47,780 | 01:16:48,940 | 这个都是很重要的 |
| 01:16:48,940 | 01:16:50,900 | 我们审查的基础一定是 |
| 01:16:50,900 | 01:16:52,980 | 最新进的技术是留在台湾 |
| 01:16:52,980 | 01:16:53,780 | 最新进 |
| 01:16:53,780 | 01:16:54,460 | 那现在不是 |
| 01:16:54,460 | 01:16:55,700 | 最大的量 |
| 01:16:55,700 | 01:16:56,940 | 一定要在台湾 |
| 01:16:56,940 | 01:16:59,060 | 那阿奈米不是已经他们在 |
| 01:16:59,060 | 01:17:01,060 | 在美国要制成了吗 |
| 01:17:01,060 | 01:17:02,020 | 他要相对投资 |
| 01:17:02,020 | 01:17:03,100 | 投资在台湾 |
| 01:17:03,100 | 01:17:04,100 | 要比国外要多 |
| 01:17:04,100 | 01:17:05,500 | 所以我们投审 |
| 01:17:05,500 | 01:17:07,220 | 一定有好好的把关 |
| 01:17:07,220 | 01:17:08,540 | 会把关嘛 |
| 01:17:08,540 | 01:17:10,820 | 所以不要说他已经在法说会说了 |
| 01:17:10,820 | 01:17:12,380 | 那事后他送进来的话 |
| 01:17:12,420 | 01:17:14,940 | 我们的投审不敢说不 |
| 01:17:14,940 | 01:17:16,140 | 一定会同意 |
| 01:17:16,140 | 01:17:17,340 | 就是要把关 |
| 01:17:17,340 | 01:17:18,180 | 对要把关啊 |
| 01:17:18,180 | 01:17:20,820 | 一定要把关键技术留在台湾 |
| 01:17:20,820 | 01:17:21,900 | 这个影响 |
| 01:17:21,900 | 01:17:22,860 | 这个很重要 |
| 01:17:22,860 | 01:17:25,260 | 会影响整个台湾的经济的发展 |
| 01:17:25,260 | 01:17:27,060 | 整个供应链都会被影响的 |
| 01:17:27,060 | 01:17:28,580 | 这个特别注意的 |
| 01:17:28,580 | 01:17:29,660 | 那接下来的话 |
| 01:17:29,660 | 01:17:31,060 | 我们要问一下能源部分 |
| 01:17:31,060 | 01:17:32,620 | 今天我们主席特别排到 |
| 01:17:32,620 | 01:17:34,060 | 这个能源 |
| 01:17:34,060 | 01:17:35,820 | 那现在我们 |
| 01:17:35,820 | 01:17:36,860 | 在 |
| 01:17:36,860 | 01:17:40,060 | 台湾的再生能源的发展来看 |
| 01:17:40,060 | 01:17:42,300 | 整个结构都是以太阳能 |
| 01:17:42,340 | 01:17:46,380 | 跟风力发电为最主要的发电来源 |
| 01:17:46,380 | 01:17:48,380 | 那还有包括的水力 |
| 01:17:48,380 | 01:17:49,980 | 或者是地热部分 |
| 01:17:49,980 | 01:17:52,780 | 那尤其在这地热的这个部分的话 |
| 01:17:52,780 | 01:17:55,900 | 因为地热它是属于全天候 |
| 01:17:55,900 | 01:17:57,700 | 稳定的供电 |
| 01:17:57,700 | 01:17:59,660 | 基载型的这个再生能源 |
| 01:17:59,660 | 01:18:03,380 | 它不会受到这个日照或者是风力的影响 |
| 01:18:03,380 | 01:18:05,900 | 可以提升整个电网韧性 |
| 01:18:05,900 | 01:18:07,620 | 最具有这个价值 |
| 01:18:07,620 | 01:18:09,100 | 重要的价值 |
| 01:18:09,100 | 01:18:10,700 | 而且台湾也是在 |
| 01:18:10,740 | 01:18:13,019 | 位于这个环太平洋的这个 |
| 01:18:13,019 | 01:18:14,500 | 地震带这个上面 |
| 01:18:14,500 | 01:18:17,500 | 所以这个地热的资源是相当丰富的 |
| 01:18:17,500 | 01:18:19,700 | 那而且我们行政院 |
| 01:18:19,700 | 01:18:22,099 | 也在去年的时候就有核定 |
| 01:18:22,099 | 01:18:25,059 | 地热减碳的这个旗舰行动计划 |
| 01:18:25,059 | 01:18:27,660 | 是行动计划里面特别有设定说 |
| 01:18:27,660 | 01:18:29,300 | 2030年 |
| 01:18:29,300 | 01:18:31,019 | 我们的装置容量 |
| 01:18:31,019 | 01:18:34,340 | 要达到1.2GW这个目标 |
| 01:18:34,340 | 01:18:34,820 | 但是 |
| 01:18:35,530 | 01:18:37,490 | 在这个目标之下的话 |
| 01:18:37,490 | 01:18:39,090 | 部长你今年的4月 |
| 01:18:39,090 | 01:18:40,370 | 你特别公布说 |
| 01:18:40,370 | 01:18:44,009 | 这个恐怕只能达到200NW |
| 01:18:44,009 | 01:18:45,130 | 是这样子吗 |
| 01:18:45,130 | 01:18:45,769 | 它这个 |
| 01:18:46,670 | 01:18:48,350 | 这个差距差了6倍 |
| 01:18:48,350 | 01:18:49,550 | 为什么会这个原因 |
| 01:18:49,550 | 01:18:50,990 | 这个努力不变 |
| 01:18:50,990 | 01:18:52,110 | 努力不变 |
| 01:18:52,110 | 01:18:53,710 | 结果改变 |
| 01:18:53,710 | 01:18:55,630 | 努力不变就是 |
| 01:18:55,630 | 01:18:57,550 | 但是现在好消息 |
| 01:18:57,550 | 01:18:58,270 | 就是说 |
| 01:18:58,270 | 01:19:01,670 | 因为如果要达到比较高的这个 |
| 01:19:01,670 | 01:19:02,990 | 这个装置容量的话 |
| 01:19:02,990 | 01:19:04,950 | 一定要达到深层 |
| 01:19:04,950 | 01:19:07,230 | 而且那个热度要够 |
| 01:19:07,230 | 01:19:08,990 | 那如果都用浅层的话 |
| 01:19:08,990 | 01:19:10,830 | 我们目前大部分都是浅层 |
| 01:19:10,830 | 01:19:12,350 | 所以我们现在有什么瓶颈 |
| 01:19:12,350 | 01:19:14,590 | 那现在我们已经有达到一口 |
| 01:19:14,590 | 01:19:15,630 | 这个深层的部分 |
| 01:19:15,630 | 01:19:16,830 | 那热度已经够了 |
| 01:19:16,830 | 01:19:17,350 | 那我们现在 |
| 01:19:17,350 | 01:19:18,550 | 有成功探勘的部分 |
| 01:19:18,550 | 01:19:19,270 | 就是在那个 |
| 01:19:19,270 | 01:19:20,830 | 在宜兰的东山 |
| 01:19:21,510 | 01:19:23,630 | 这个一号这个汤汤已经成功了 |
| 01:19:23,630 | 01:19:25,390 | 对就是热度已经够了 |
| 01:19:25,390 | 01:19:26,150 | 那我们现在就是要 |
| 01:19:26,150 | 01:19:27,350 | 这个是一座成功 |
| 01:19:27,350 | 01:19:28,430 | 还有其他的呢 |
| 01:19:28,430 | 01:19:29,430 | 多打几口 |
| 01:19:29,430 | 01:19:30,830 | 可以确定它的这个 |
| 01:19:30,830 | 01:19:32,310 | 里面的容量是多少 |
| 01:19:32,310 | 01:19:32,630 | 是 |
| 01:19:32,630 | 01:19:34,630 | 才可以估计它的这个价值 |
| 01:19:34,630 | 01:19:35,270 | 嗯嗯嗯 |
| 01:19:35,270 | 01:19:35,870 | 对好 |
| 01:19:35,870 | 01:19:37,390 | 啊这个至少是一个好消息 |
| 01:19:37,390 | 01:19:39,070 | 如果这个深层有的话 |
| 01:19:39,070 | 01:19:40,750 | 那就是一个很好的一个 |
| 01:19:40,750 | 01:19:41,030 | 是 |
| 01:19:41,030 | 01:19:43,110 | 深层的这个成果 |
| 01:19:43,110 | 01:19:43,710 | 那就 |
| 01:19:44,350 | 01:19:45,630 | 这个目标 |
| 01:19:45,630 | 01:19:46,950 | 也许我们可以 |
| 01:19:46,950 | 01:19:48,350 | 我们继续探勘 |
| 01:19:48,350 | 01:19:50,510 | 开发更多的成功的例子 |
| 01:19:50,510 | 01:19:51,950 | 因为这个地热 |
| 01:19:51,950 | 01:19:54,270 | 是不受日照跟风力的影响 |
| 01:19:54,270 | 01:19:56,390 | 比较稳定的供电的部分 |
| 01:19:56,390 | 01:19:58,110 | 那我们继续来努力 |
| 01:19:58,110 | 01:19:59,270 | 那还有另外就是 |
| 01:19:59,270 | 01:20:01,430 | 我们风力发电这个部分 |
| 01:20:01,430 | 01:20:03,430 | 那风力发电有分成 |
| 01:20:03,430 | 01:20:04,870 | 我们离岸的风电 |
| 01:20:04,870 | 01:20:06,910 | 还有我们路易的风电 |
| 01:20:06,910 | 01:20:09,590 | 那最近我们要开发这一块的话 |
| 01:20:09,590 | 01:20:10,990 | 呃是因为我们 |
| 01:20:10,990 | 01:20:12,390 | 这个离岸风电的 |
| 01:20:12,390 | 01:20:13,710 | 这个我们三之一 |
| 01:20:14,110 | 01:20:16,230 | 区域这个开发这部分 |
| 01:20:16,230 | 01:20:17,430 | 三之一三之二的话 |
| 01:20:17,430 | 01:20:18,350 | 因为成本 |
| 01:20:18,350 | 01:20:19,950 | 还有物价的提高 |
| 01:20:19,950 | 01:20:22,470 | 很多产业都跟我们解约了 |
| 01:20:22,470 | 01:20:24,310 | 所以这个不被看好了 |
| 01:20:24,310 | 01:20:25,110 | 那 |
| 01:20:25,110 | 01:20:26,430 | 那我们现在看到就是说 |
| 01:20:26,430 | 01:20:28,870 | 我们可以再努力的部分就是 |
| 01:20:28,870 | 01:20:31,310 | 有浮动式的离岸风电 |
| 01:20:32,000 | 01:20:33,320 | 是不是我们要努力这部分 |
| 01:20:33,320 | 01:20:35,840 | 报告委员因为我们在这个 |
| 01:20:35,840 | 01:20:36,560 | 离岸风电 |
| 01:20:36,560 | 01:20:37,440 | 在推动吗 |
| 01:20:37,440 | 01:20:38,320 | 对要推动 |
| 01:20:38,320 | 01:20:38,760 | 要推动 |
| 01:20:38,760 | 01:20:40,000 | 离岸风电的部分 |
| 01:20:40,000 | 01:20:40,960 | 它有一个近 |
| 01:20:40,960 | 01:20:41,840 | 比较靠近岸 |
| 01:20:41,840 | 01:20:43,840 | 它水深比较浅的部分 |
| 01:20:43,840 | 01:20:44,120 | 是 |
| 01:20:44,120 | 01:20:45,720 | 那可以用固定式的装 |
| 01:20:45,720 | 01:20:46,600 | 就没有问题 |
| 01:20:46,600 | 01:20:47,760 | 现在现在 |
| 01:20:47,760 | 01:20:48,840 | 但是 |
| 01:20:48,840 | 01:20:50,360 | 往外海去推的时候 |
| 01:20:50,360 | 01:20:51,560 | 那水很深 |
| 01:20:51,560 | 01:20:53,360 | 你没有办法再用固定装 |
| 01:20:53,360 | 01:20:54,680 | 但是用浮动式的 |
| 01:20:54,680 | 01:20:56,120 | 那你们具体的时程 |
| 01:20:56,120 | 01:20:57,680 | 跟装置容量的这个目标 |
| 01:20:57,680 | 01:20:59,240 | 我们现在就是浮动式的 |
| 01:20:59,240 | 01:21:01,360 | 它要有一个示范性先做 |
| 01:21:01,360 | 01:21:03,559 | 但是固定式的持续在做 |
| 01:21:03,559 | 01:21:05,000 | 应该提到 |
| 01:21:05,000 | 01:21:06,040 | 3-1 3-2 |
| 01:21:06,040 | 01:21:07,200 | 有一些风场试出来 |
| 01:21:07,200 | 01:21:08,839 | 我们会并到33 |
| 01:21:08,839 | 01:21:11,160 | 那后续的还会往前走 |
| 01:21:11,160 | 01:21:11,799 | 这样子 |
| 01:21:11,799 | 01:21:12,880 | 部长你这样讲的话 |
| 01:21:12,880 | 01:21:14,360 | 好像你们都有在推动 |
| 01:21:14,360 | 01:21:14,759 | 有 |
| 01:21:14,759 | 01:21:17,360 | 为什么在我们今年的这个 |
| 01:21:17,360 | 01:21:20,920 | 全国电力资源供需报告里面 |
| 01:21:20,920 | 01:21:22,200 | 里面并没有说 |
| 01:21:22,200 | 01:21:23,200 | 有一个说法出来 |
| 01:21:24,400 | 01:21:25,040 | 在报告里面 |
| 01:21:25,040 | 01:21:25,960 | 你们并没有 |
| 01:21:25,960 | 01:21:26,599 | 没有说呢 |
| 01:21:28,450 | 01:21:29,690 | 你没有把它放进去 |
| 01:21:29,690 | 01:21:30,969 | 你并没有把它放进去 |
| 01:21:30,969 | 01:21:32,450 | 那个是电力供需报告 |
| 01:21:32,450 | 01:21:33,730 | 它只会就整个 |
| 01:21:33,730 | 01:21:35,849 | 在深远发展的趋势讲一下 |
| 01:21:35,849 | 01:21:37,090 | 那刚刚委员提到 |
| 01:21:37,090 | 01:21:38,130 | 那个离岸风电的部分 |
| 01:21:38,130 | 01:21:39,410 | 我们另外会有别的计划 |
| 01:21:39,410 | 01:21:40,370 | 再公布给大家 |
| 01:21:40,370 | 01:21:41,370 | 让大家知道 |
| 01:21:41,370 | 01:21:43,290 | 所以有在推动吗 |
| 01:21:43,290 | 01:21:43,929 | 有有有 |
| 01:21:43,929 | 01:21:44,690 | 那个 |
| 01:21:46,700 | 01:21:48,180 | 不是只是在概念而已 |
| 01:21:48,180 | 01:21:49,500 | 我们很快的会公布 |
| 01:21:49,500 | 01:21:50,660 | 还没有具体的时程 |
| 01:21:50,660 | 01:21:53,060 | 我们很快的会说明这个 |
| 01:21:53,060 | 01:21:54,860 | 中长程的这个计划 |
| 01:21:54,860 | 01:21:56,740 | 就是离岸风电的部分 |
| 01:21:57,360 | 01:21:58,400 | 因为我们昨天 |
| 01:21:58,400 | 01:22:00,400 | 明天那个总统府就会开这个 |
| 01:22:00,400 | 01:22:02,280 | 所以会把市场跟这个 |
| 01:22:02,280 | 01:22:03,360 | 装置的容量 |
| 01:22:03,360 | 01:22:04,519 | 这目标都会定出来 |
| 01:22:04,519 | 01:22:05,080 | 对对对 |
| 01:22:05,080 | 01:22:06,200 | 明天因为总统府 |
| 01:22:06,200 | 01:22:08,360 | 会开这个气候变迁的委员会 |
| 01:22:08,360 | 01:22:09,280 | 委员会完以后 |
| 01:22:09,280 | 01:22:10,719 | 就会对外说明 |
| 01:22:10,719 | 01:22:11,280 | 好 |
| 01:22:11,280 | 01:22:11,759 | 好 |
| 01:22:11,759 | 01:22:12,960 | 那努力的来做了 |
| 01:22:13,630 | 01:22:15,870 | 好 谢谢黎立委员部长请回座 |
| 01:22:15,870 | 01:22:18,430 | 而是请中央议员代替代理主席 |
| 01:22:26,650 | 01:22:28,210 | 有请邱昭伟的质询 |
| 01:22:34,570 | 01:22:36,769 | 谢主席是不是请街舞总部长 |
| 01:22:36,769 | 01:22:38,330 | 然后能源所吴署长 |
| 01:22:38,330 | 01:22:39,450 | 请总部长吴署长 |
| 01:22:39,450 | 01:22:39,769 | 谢谢 |
| 01:22:43,160 | 01:22:44,760 | 能源管理法修法 |
| 01:22:44,760 | 01:22:46,200 | 赵伟好 |
| 01:22:46,200 | 01:22:47,440 | 部长跟署长 |
| 01:22:47,440 | 01:22:48,200 | 能源管理法修法 |
| 01:22:48,200 | 01:22:50,040 | 几个本席的条文 |
| 01:22:50,040 | 01:22:51,040 | 跟你讨论一下 |
| 01:22:51,040 | 01:22:51,599 | 是 |
| 01:22:51,599 | 01:22:53,519 | 第七条的部分 |
| 01:22:53,519 | 01:22:54,559 | 我的着重点 |
| 01:22:54,559 | 01:22:56,480 | 跟原版着重点不太一样 |
| 01:22:56,480 | 01:22:57,920 | 你把相关的择救 |
| 01:22:57,920 | 01:22:59,840 | 把它删除掉 |
| 01:22:59,840 | 01:23:01,880 | 那我是要求你们在 |
| 01:23:01,880 | 01:23:03,280 | 储存安全存量 |
| 01:23:03,280 | 01:23:05,320 | 有更明确的规范 |
| 01:23:06,060 | 01:23:07,700 | 安全存量有更明确的规范 |
| 01:23:07,700 | 01:23:09,380 | 比方说你的数量基准 |
| 01:23:09,380 | 01:23:10,660 | 设备类型 |
| 01:23:10,660 | 01:23:12,260 | 安全存量替代方式 |
| 01:23:12,980 | 01:23:14,540 | 这个是不是可以 |
| 01:23:14,540 | 01:23:16,379 | 有一个中央主管机关 |
| 01:23:16,379 | 01:23:17,980 | 就是能源署经济部 |
| 01:23:17,980 | 01:23:19,540 | 制定一个更明确的 |
| 01:23:20,750 | 01:23:22,830 | 储存设备跟储取安全能量 |
| 01:23:22,830 | 01:23:23,549 | 相关的做法 |
| 01:23:24,090 | 01:23:25,010 | 这个可行吗 |
| 01:23:26,000 | 01:23:26,840 | 你来说明一下 |
| 01:23:26,840 | 01:23:28,320 | 来那个吴署长 |
| 01:23:28,320 | 01:23:29,240 | 跟我们报告一下 |
| 01:23:29,240 | 01:23:31,640 | 这个目前就是 |
| 01:23:31,640 | 01:23:33,200 | 在执法里面 |
| 01:23:33,200 | 01:23:34,160 | 本来就有规定 |
| 01:23:34,160 | 01:23:35,520 | 像这些适用对象 |
| 01:23:35,520 | 01:23:36,240 | 还有它的 |
| 01:23:36,240 | 01:23:37,760 | 你现在执法就有吗 |
| 01:23:37,760 | 01:23:38,520 | 有 |
| 01:23:38,520 | 01:23:40,000 | 就是我们有一个叫做 |
| 01:23:40,000 | 01:23:41,200 | 能源供应事业 |
| 01:23:41,200 | 01:23:43,320 | 集能用户应打办理能源管理法 |
| 01:23:43,320 | 01:23:44,600 | 相关事项之 |
| 01:23:44,600 | 01:23:46,560 | 能源供应数量使用基准 |
| 01:23:46,560 | 01:23:49,000 | 及储存安全存量的规定 |
| 01:23:49,000 | 01:23:50,400 | 所以你已经在执法上 |
| 01:23:50,400 | 01:23:51,400 | 有相当的规定 |
| 01:23:51,400 | 01:23:52,480 | 对有类似的规定 |
| 01:23:52,480 | 01:23:52,840 | 对 |
| 01:23:52,840 | 01:23:53,640 | 类似 |
| 01:23:53,640 | 01:23:54,720 | 有没有更明确的 |
| 01:23:54,760 | 01:23:56,440 | 比方说适用的对象等等 |
| 01:23:56,440 | 01:23:56,760 | 有 |
| 01:23:56,760 | 01:23:58,640 | 基准 类型 安全存量 |
| 01:23:58,640 | 01:23:59,840 | 还有替代方式 |
| 01:23:59,840 | 01:24:01,440 | 我跟赵委报告一下 |
| 01:24:01,440 | 01:24:02,880 | 比如说像能源供应事业的话 |
| 01:24:02,880 | 01:24:04,280 | 它就有规定说 |
| 01:24:04,280 | 01:24:05,320 | 能源供应数量 |
| 01:24:05,320 | 01:24:06,400 | 好 我了解 组长 |
| 01:24:06,400 | 01:24:07,080 | 是不是如果 |
| 01:24:07,080 | 01:24:08,840 | 我这条我不放进去 |
| 01:24:08,840 | 01:24:10,560 | 但是你们在相关执法里面 |
| 01:24:10,560 | 01:24:11,680 | 定的更明确一点 |
| 01:24:11,680 | 01:24:12,280 | 没问题 |
| 01:24:12,280 | 01:24:13,280 | 好 |
| 01:24:13,280 | 01:24:14,640 | 另外第九条的部分 |
| 01:24:15,230 | 01:24:16,429 | 这条 |
| 01:24:16,429 | 01:24:17,429 | 我看你们报告好像 |
| 01:24:17,429 | 01:24:18,750 | 你们有相关执法 |
| 01:24:18,750 | 01:24:20,190 | 在做执行 |
| 01:24:20,190 | 01:24:21,910 | 就针对这些 |
| 01:24:21,910 | 01:24:25,190 | 这个查核机制 |
| 01:24:25,190 | 01:24:27,030 | 节能的目标 |
| 01:24:27,030 | 01:24:28,950 | 执行计划的准则 |
| 01:24:28,950 | 01:24:30,629 | 这些部分执法里面有吗 |
| 01:24:33,110 | 01:24:35,950 | 我们是有规定 |
| 01:24:35,950 | 01:24:38,429 | 就是说他要报的这个计划 |
| 01:24:38,429 | 01:24:40,030 | 报完以后我们现在是改 |
| 01:24:40,030 | 01:24:41,429 | 以前是核备比较不明确 |
| 01:24:41,429 | 01:24:42,750 | 我们现在改成核定 |
| 01:24:42,750 | 01:24:43,429 | 核定那里 |
| 01:24:43,429 | 01:24:45,030 | 有相关的查核的这个 |
| 01:24:45,030 | 01:24:46,710 | 有 我们有相关的查核机制 |
| 01:24:46,710 | 01:24:47,870 | 定在哪里呢 |
| 01:24:47,870 | 01:24:49,790 | 他另外有执法里面 |
| 01:24:49,790 | 01:24:51,469 | 会有定一个公告 |
| 01:24:51,469 | 01:24:52,190 | 怎么查核 |
| 01:24:52,190 | 01:24:53,030 | 现在执法定了吗 |
| 01:24:53,030 | 01:24:53,870 | 还在定 |
| 01:24:53,870 | 01:24:55,870 | 原来就有一个执法 |
| 01:24:55,870 | 01:24:56,509 | 对 因为这是一个 |
| 01:24:56,509 | 01:24:57,790 | 所以你原来就有这个执法 |
| 01:24:57,790 | 01:25:01,070 | 针对我这边所罗列的 |
| 01:25:01,070 | 01:25:02,469 | 能源查核制度 |
| 01:25:02,510 | 01:25:04,030 | 执行计划准则相关 |
| 01:25:04,030 | 01:25:05,550 | 都有吗 |
| 01:25:05,550 | 01:25:06,990 | 都有类似的规定 |
| 01:25:06,990 | 01:25:08,310 | 那因为我们现在本来就有 |
| 01:25:08,310 | 01:25:10,910 | 大用户一年要节电1%跟1.5% |
| 01:25:10,910 | 01:25:12,310 | 所以我们有相关的一些规定 |
| 01:25:12,310 | 01:25:13,150 | 那委员之间 |
| 01:25:13,150 | 01:25:13,750 | 我需要说 |
| 01:25:13,750 | 01:25:15,430 | 如果我这不放进去 |
| 01:25:15,430 | 01:25:17,470 | 你们相关执法要制定更完整一点 |
| 01:25:17,470 | 01:25:19,030 | 好 |
| 01:25:19,030 | 01:25:20,990 | 第七条跟第九条 |
| 01:25:20,990 | 01:25:22,070 | 那另外就是说 |
| 01:25:22,070 | 01:25:23,510 | 你第十条的部分 |
| 01:25:24,700 | 01:25:26,340 | 这个缺容量 |
| 01:25:26,340 | 01:25:28,700 | 大概一定容量的用户 |
| 01:25:28,700 | 01:25:29,660 | 一定齐心 |
| 01:25:29,660 | 01:25:31,340 | 装饰一定容量以上的 |
| 01:25:31,340 | 01:25:33,500 | 自用发电设备跟储能设备 |
| 01:25:34,320 | 01:25:36,719 | 这些是你要用执法来做规范吗 |
| 01:25:37,650 | 01:25:38,690 | 是 |
| 01:25:38,690 | 01:25:39,450 | 是 因为 |
| 01:25:40,180 | 01:25:42,220 | 因为再生能源条例 |
| 01:25:42,220 | 01:25:44,860 | 也是类似这样的体力 |
| 01:25:44,860 | 01:25:46,300 | 所以你用执法 |
| 01:25:46,300 | 01:25:48,180 | 执法什么会出来呢 |
| 01:25:48,180 | 01:25:50,660 | 执法通常是母法通过以后的半年 |
| 01:25:50,660 | 01:25:51,980 | 半年之内会出来 |
| 01:25:51,980 | 01:25:54,100 | 所以会很清楚的规范 |
| 01:25:54,100 | 01:25:54,860 | 相关的 |
| 01:25:54,860 | 01:25:55,900 | 包括装饰容量 |
| 01:25:55,900 | 01:25:56,780 | 设备种类 |
| 01:25:56,780 | 01:25:57,860 | 设置方式等等 |
| 01:25:57,860 | 01:25:58,940 | 是 |
| 01:25:58,940 | 01:26:00,140 | 好 |
| 01:26:00,140 | 01:26:02,660 | 那另外这个是五年以内吗 |
| 01:26:03,350 | 01:26:05,950 | 再生能源它的规定是说 |
| 01:26:05,950 | 01:26:07,470 | 在当年度1月1月 |
| 01:26:07,470 | 01:26:09,350 | 那是再生能源 |
| 01:26:09,350 | 01:26:11,510 | 给予的这个宽限期 |
| 01:26:11,510 | 01:26:13,590 | 或者是磨合期 |
| 01:26:13,590 | 01:26:14,790 | 那这个 |
| 01:26:14,790 | 01:26:17,070 | 那我们这个将来也会有类似的 |
| 01:26:17,070 | 01:26:17,870 | 宽限期 |
| 01:26:17,870 | 01:26:18,510 | 对 |
| 01:26:18,510 | 01:26:19,430 | 那期限是多少呢 |
| 01:26:20,130 | 01:26:21,330 | 要定执法定 |
| 01:26:21,330 | 01:26:22,050 | 执法定 |
| 01:26:22,050 | 01:26:22,530 | 但是 |
| 01:26:22,530 | 01:26:22,970 | 因为 |
| 01:26:22,970 | 01:26:23,530 | 条例是5年 |
| 01:26:23,530 | 01:26:24,210 | 条例是 |
| 01:26:24,210 | 01:26:25,610 | 那个再生能源是5年 |
| 01:26:25,610 | 01:26:27,370 | 我们用这个基准来跟 |
| 01:26:27,370 | 01:26:30,050 | 相关业者做一个讨论 |
| 01:26:30,050 | 01:26:31,250 | 好 那可能会定多久 |
| 01:26:32,140 | 01:26:33,460 | 就是用5年做的基准 |
| 01:26:33,460 | 01:26:34,380 | 也是用5年 |
| 01:26:34,380 | 01:26:35,980 | 对 问问他们 |
| 01:26:35,980 | 01:26:36,980 | 可不可以做到 |
| 01:26:36,980 | 01:26:37,660 | 意思是这样 |
| 01:26:37,660 | 01:26:39,180 | 那如果说用他们回答是做不到呢 |
| 01:26:40,130 | 01:26:41,370 | 我们当然也会判断 |
| 01:26:41,370 | 01:26:42,410 | 他要讲一个理由 |
| 01:26:42,410 | 01:26:43,170 | 没有 十年 |
| 01:26:43,170 | 01:26:44,730 | 他如果说十年 |
| 01:26:44,730 | 01:26:46,250 | 你们可以接受吗 |
| 01:26:46,250 | 01:26:49,090 | 我们还是用5年作为基准来作为讨论 |
| 01:26:49,090 | 01:26:50,090 | 你这样定下去 |
| 01:26:50,090 | 01:26:51,290 | 他就要遵守 |
| 01:26:51,980 | 01:26:55,580 | 我们当然也一定要让他可以做得到 |
| 01:26:55,580 | 01:26:56,099 | 是 |
| 01:26:56,099 | 01:26:57,420 | 他如果 |
| 01:26:57,420 | 01:26:58,339 | 业界普遍反映 |
| 01:26:58,339 | 01:26:59,620 | 就跟我们陈情说十年 |
| 01:26:59,620 | 01:27:00,339 | 你们会接受吗 |
| 01:27:00,940 | 01:27:02,299 | 那个真的太久了 |
| 01:27:03,620 | 01:27:05,460 | 你觉得合理期间大概是多久 |
| 01:27:06,040 | 01:27:08,920 | 就是我们用5年作为基准来做讨论 |
| 01:27:08,920 | 01:27:09,520 | 对 |
| 01:27:09,520 | 01:27:12,960 | 好 那另外继续请教第十条 |
| 01:27:12,960 | 01:27:15,760 | 其实还是有相关的问题 |
| 01:27:16,340 | 01:27:19,220 | 你跟电业法做一些配套去思考 |
| 01:27:20,110 | 01:27:21,870 | 会有一些买不到的问题 |
| 01:27:21,870 | 01:27:23,950 | 还有没有地盖的问题 |
| 01:27:23,950 | 01:27:26,550 | 还有整合的问题等等 |
| 01:27:26,550 | 01:27:28,269 | 这些让你自在难行 |
| 01:27:28,269 | 01:27:31,309 | 你徒有相关的法律的义务 |
| 01:27:31,309 | 01:27:33,710 | 但是哪里去履行这些法定义务 |
| 01:27:34,480 | 01:27:36,440 | 所以部长跟署长有没有看到这个问题 |
| 01:27:36,440 | 01:27:38,480 | 所以刚刚跟委员报告 |
| 01:27:38,480 | 01:27:40,519 | 就是为什么我们要跟相关 |
| 01:27:40,519 | 01:27:42,519 | 厉害关系的人做一个讨论 |
| 01:27:42,519 | 01:27:44,959 | 像相关厉害关系有多少人 |
| 01:27:44,959 | 01:27:46,280 | 有多少人 |
| 01:27:46,280 | 01:27:48,320 | 700多户 |
| 01:27:48,320 | 01:27:50,559 | 如果用5MW |
| 01:27:50,559 | 01:27:52,160 | 有700多户5MW |
| 01:27:52,160 | 01:27:55,160 | 然后你们有召开相关的会议的吗 |
| 01:27:55,160 | 01:27:56,320 | 召开了两场 |
| 01:27:56,320 | 01:27:57,559 | 后续还会召开 |
| 01:27:57,559 | 01:27:59,559 | 那主要是分布在哪里 |
| 01:27:59,559 | 01:28:01,559 | 700多户主要出布在哪里 |
| 01:28:02,250 | 01:28:03,050 | 跟我们报告一下 |
| 01:28:03,050 | 01:28:04,530 | 他有的是在园区 |
| 01:28:04,530 | 01:28:06,050 | 有的是在工业区 |
| 01:28:06,050 | 01:28:06,690 | 都有 |
| 01:28:06,690 | 01:28:09,210 | 那我们现在是在台北开过一场 |
| 01:28:09,210 | 01:28:09,970 | 高雄开过一场 |
| 01:28:09,970 | 01:28:13,530 | 我们后续有陆续到比较集中的区域去开 |
| 01:28:13,530 | 01:28:14,730 | 这些说明会 |
| 01:28:14,730 | 01:28:18,290 | 这个三个问题都很难去处理 |
| 01:28:18,290 | 01:28:19,370 | 买不到 |
| 01:28:19,370 | 01:28:20,530 | 真的就是买不到 |
| 01:28:20,530 | 01:28:22,930 | 然后你要叫他去有一些什么 |
| 01:28:22,930 | 01:28:24,970 | 市行设施 市行使用 |
| 01:28:24,970 | 01:28:26,650 | 那他找地 |
| 01:28:28,019 | 01:28:29,740 | 没有地怎么去改 |
| 01:28:29,740 | 01:28:31,860 | 所以我刚刚跟委员报告的 |
| 01:28:31,860 | 01:28:34,580 | 就是说我们还是要跟这些厉害关系人作为讨论 |
| 01:28:34,580 | 01:28:36,259 | 而且新旧可能会有要求 |
| 01:28:36,259 | 01:28:37,059 | 会有不一样 |
| 01:28:37,950 | 01:28:40,309 | 这个部分你们还要讨论多久 |
| 01:28:41,990 | 01:28:45,230 | 就是持续的跟这些厂商 |
| 01:28:45,230 | 01:28:47,150 | 有一些座谈会 |
| 01:28:47,150 | 01:28:49,269 | 持续来做一些讨论 |
| 01:28:49,269 | 01:28:51,309 | 但是我觉得你光开完座谈会 |
| 01:28:51,309 | 01:28:52,830 | 总要解决这些问题 |
| 01:28:52,830 | 01:28:56,110 | 你要有一个完整的一个报告 |
| 01:28:56,110 | 01:28:56,389 | 是 |
| 01:28:56,389 | 01:28:58,150 | 这些完整的报告 |
| 01:28:58,150 | 01:28:58,510 | 要 |
| 01:28:59,120 | 01:29:01,320 | 牵涉到如何解决买不到问题 |
| 01:29:01,320 | 01:29:03,480 | 如何解决没地盖的问题 |
| 01:29:03,480 | 01:29:04,720 | 如何解决整合问题 |
| 01:29:06,130 | 01:29:08,050 | 不要说给你半年 |
| 01:29:08,050 | 01:29:09,290 | 半年会不会太久 |
| 01:29:10,260 | 01:29:11,340 | 半年可以吧 |
| 01:29:11,340 | 01:29:12,060 | 可以啊 |
| 01:29:12,060 | 01:29:13,940 | 我们因为母法通过半年 |
| 01:29:13,940 | 01:29:14,940 | 我们一定要出 |
| 01:29:14,940 | 01:29:15,260 | 对 |
| 01:29:15,260 | 01:29:16,620 | 所以你要把这些问题 |
| 01:29:16,620 | 01:29:17,220 | 是 |
| 01:29:17,220 | 01:29:18,260 | 三个月 |
| 01:29:18,260 | 01:29:19,500 | 你要初步的解决 |
| 01:29:19,500 | 01:29:20,460 | 放到里面里面 |
| 01:29:20,460 | 01:29:21,860 | 三个月提出一个报告好不好 |
| 01:29:21,860 | 01:29:22,980 | 好好好 |
| 01:29:22,980 | 01:29:25,260 | 另外电网任性的问题 |
| 01:29:26,370 | 01:29:28,490 | 一停电就造成民生 |
| 01:29:28,490 | 01:29:31,250 | 或者是工业生产很大的问题 |
| 01:29:31,250 | 01:29:33,490 | 所以停电是一个梦业 |
| 01:29:33,490 | 01:29:35,610 | 所以你从109到114年 |
| 01:29:35,610 | 01:29:37,809 | 停电的三小时次数 |
| 01:29:37,809 | 01:29:38,809 | 一直在增加 |
| 01:29:39,580 | 01:29:40,620 | 所以这部分 |
| 01:29:40,620 | 01:29:41,620 | 如果 |
| 01:29:41,620 | 01:29:44,019 | 有一个统计的资料库 |
| 01:29:44,019 | 01:29:46,300 | 你要盘点整个一位风灾 |
| 01:29:46,300 | 01:29:46,980 | 或者 |
| 01:29:46,980 | 01:29:49,300 | 过去有停电记录三个小时的 |
| 01:29:49,300 | 01:29:51,340 | 属于高风险地区 |
| 01:29:51,340 | 01:29:53,740 | 我们要进行结构的整 |
| 01:29:53,740 | 01:29:54,900 | 强化 |
| 01:29:54,900 | 01:29:56,060 | 有没有这相关的资料 |
| 01:29:59,470 | 01:30:01,110 | 台电公司有没有代表 |
| 01:30:01,110 | 01:30:03,190 | 这个部分我们有资料 |
| 01:30:03,190 | 01:30:05,190 | 那我们是不是会后再提供给委员 |
| 01:30:05,190 | 01:30:06,030 | 那我 |
| 01:30:06,030 | 01:30:07,309 | 这个资料提供给我 |
| 01:30:07,309 | 01:30:08,590 | 但是最重要是说 |
| 01:30:08,590 | 01:30:11,190 | 你们针对这个高风险地区 |
| 01:30:11,190 | 01:30:12,350 | 除了盘点之外 |
| 01:30:12,350 | 01:30:14,430 | 你们去强化那个 |
| 01:30:14,430 | 01:30:16,750 | 防灾任性跟陷入的维护 |
| 01:30:16,750 | 01:30:17,630 | 让 |
| 01:30:17,630 | 01:30:19,590 | 让这三小时不会常出现 |
| 01:30:19,590 | 01:30:20,710 | 其实报告委员 |
| 01:30:20,710 | 01:30:23,269 | 其实我们都会针对这些比较高风险 |
| 01:30:23,269 | 01:30:24,110 | 或者是说 |
| 01:30:24,110 | 01:30:26,350 | 所以去盘点相关的一些热去 |
| 01:30:26,350 | 01:30:27,670 | 那去做一个 |
| 01:30:27,670 | 01:30:30,830 | 加强的一个重点的一个巡视跟防范 |
| 01:30:30,830 | 01:30:34,190 | 你们台电总公司要有个对策 |
| 01:30:34,190 | 01:30:35,870 | 要有一个政策方向 |
| 01:30:35,870 | 01:30:38,030 | 然后要各分处去执行 |
| 01:30:38,030 | 01:30:40,510 | 把他所辖下的这个热点 |
| 01:30:40,510 | 01:30:41,670 | 三个小时以上 |
| 01:30:41,670 | 01:30:43,670 | 停电过去的这些记录 |
| 01:30:43,670 | 01:30:45,990 | 要加强他整个任性的强化 |
| 01:30:45,990 | 01:30:49,230 | 是 石邦委员我们都是朝这方向去努力 |
| 01:30:49,230 | 01:30:50,030 | 好 谢谢 |
| 01:30:51,700 | 01:30:52,780 | 谢谢邱昭伟 |
| 01:30:52,780 | 01:30:53,340 | 谢谢部长 |
| 01:30:53,340 | 01:30:54,220 | 谢谢署长 |
| 01:30:54,220 | 01:30:56,940 | 接下来有请陈昭明委员 |
| 01:31:09,300 | 01:31:10,380 | 还有一个次序啊 |
| 01:31:11,180 | 01:31:14,060 | 首先邀请我们经济部总部 |
| 01:31:14,060 | 01:31:15,260 | 请经济部总部 |
| 01:31:21,260 | 01:31:22,060 | 市委员早安 |
| 01:31:22,060 | 01:31:23,740 | 啊 口部部长早安 |
| 01:31:23,740 | 01:31:24,100 | 好 |
| 01:31:24,790 | 01:31:29,030 | 那今天能源管理法部问讨论就修正 |
| 01:31:29,580 | 01:31:31,860 | 原则上我们都会支持 |
| 01:31:31,860 | 01:31:32,380 | 谢谢 |
| 01:31:32,380 | 01:31:34,780 | 但是我第三点我要请教你 |
| 01:31:35,929 | 01:31:37,090 | 就是管理啊 |
| 01:31:37,769 | 01:31:40,969 | 你们在有五个重点里面的第三点 |
| 01:31:41,570 | 01:31:43,809 | 增添能源大户 |
| 01:31:43,809 | 01:31:48,090 | 用设置自用发电及除冷设备 |
| 01:31:49,060 | 01:31:52,420 | 有最余强化企业能源的自给能力 |
| 01:31:53,430 | 01:31:55,230 | 那我常常在想一个问题 |
| 01:31:57,670 | 01:31:58,750 | 包括我们能源 |
| 01:31:59,650 | 01:32:01,089 | 包括台电都讲 |
| 01:32:01,089 | 01:32:04,290 | 我们2030年以前不缺电 |
| 01:32:05,100 | 01:32:07,300 | 今天你把这个条文弄出来 |
| 01:32:07,300 | 01:32:09,020 | 主要的用意在哪里 |
| 01:32:09,020 | 01:32:10,340 | 让我们了解一下 |
| 01:32:11,320 | 01:32:12,840 | 那报委员还是要增加 |
| 01:32:12,840 | 01:32:14,400 | 因为他是用电大户 |
| 01:32:14,400 | 01:32:15,080 | 就是说 |
| 01:32:16,740 | 01:32:19,019 | 就是增加他的这个韧性 |
| 01:32:19,780 | 01:32:21,380 | 电力供应的韧性 |
| 01:32:21,980 | 01:32:22,500 | 就是 |
| 01:32:24,240 | 01:32:25,559 | 还是会有天灾嘛 |
| 01:32:25,559 | 01:32:26,120 | 对不对 |
| 01:32:26,120 | 01:32:28,000 | 如果发生天灾的时候 |
| 01:32:28,000 | 01:32:29,160 | 他是用电大户 |
| 01:32:29,160 | 01:32:31,679 | 那用电的数量那么多 |
| 01:32:31,679 | 01:32:33,320 | 那如果在这个时间里面 |
| 01:32:33,320 | 01:32:34,799 | 他有一个这样的韧性 |
| 01:32:43,440 | 01:32:45,200 | 所以这条条文怪怪 |
| 01:32:45,200 | 01:32:46,280 | 但是我容忍 |
| 01:32:46,719 | 01:32:47,920 | 这里面你要 |
| 01:32:48,240 | 01:32:50,000 | 这样条文出来里面 |
| 01:32:50,640 | 01:32:51,880 | 那你告诉我 |
| 01:32:51,880 | 01:32:54,840 | 自用发电现在有几种方式 |
| 01:32:54,840 | 01:32:55,960 | 照我了解的 |
| 01:32:55,960 | 01:32:57,440 | 有一个气垫工程 |
| 01:32:57,440 | 01:32:58,960 | 一个发电机 |
| 01:32:58,960 | 01:33:00,720 | 有没有更新型的发式 |
| 01:33:01,590 | 01:33:04,630 | 就是固定式的燃料电磁发电 |
| 01:33:10,550 | 01:33:12,430 | 保来者的那一个的话 |
| 01:33:12,430 | 01:33:13,310 | 我是问的 |
| 01:33:13,310 | 01:33:15,310 | 因为刚刚我们躺在阻碍 |
| 01:33:15,310 | 01:33:16,830 | 所以我比较清楚 |
| 01:33:17,190 | 01:33:19,350 | 但是容来要用到天然气 |
| 01:33:19,350 | 01:33:20,070 | 要要要 |
| 01:33:20,070 | 01:33:22,310 | 天然气关于断供的话 |
| 01:33:22,310 | 01:33:23,190 | 你要怎么办 |
| 01:33:35,140 | 01:33:37,220 | 所以是为什么是多元 |
| 01:33:37,220 | 01:33:38,740 | 有一个是直接用电的 |
| 01:33:38,740 | 01:33:39,860 | 有一个天然气 |
| 01:33:39,860 | 01:33:41,140 | 只要天然气不断 |
| 01:33:41,140 | 01:33:42,020 | 他就不会断电 |
| 01:33:42,020 | 01:33:42,700 | 我跟你讲 |
| 01:33:42,700 | 01:33:43,620 | 天然气不断 |
| 01:33:43,620 | 01:33:45,700 | 我是讲是关于天然气断电 |
| 01:33:45,700 | 01:33:46,780 | 你都说好听 |
| 01:33:46,780 | 01:33:48,420 | 但是我给你提醒一下 |
| 01:33:48,420 | 01:33:49,780 | 我们都不反对 |
| 01:33:49,780 | 01:33:52,380 | 因为这个一个新式的能源方式 |
| 01:33:52,380 | 01:33:53,180 | 对 |
| 01:33:53,180 | 01:33:55,140 | 还有一个除能的方式 |
| 01:33:55,140 | 01:33:56,860 | 到底要多大 |
| 01:33:56,860 | 01:33:59,460 | 才能让这些工厂能用 |
| 01:34:00,590 | 01:34:02,550 | 除能里面现在你的 |
| 01:34:02,550 | 01:34:04,150 | 电池里面最重要 |
| 01:34:04,150 | 01:34:07,390 | 电池现在也很怕会去燃烧起来 |
| 01:34:08,030 | 01:34:10,190 | 所以这个考量里面 |
| 01:34:10,190 | 01:34:12,030 | 你花了那么大的钱 |
| 01:34:12,030 | 01:34:13,670 | 不是天天在用 |
| 01:34:13,670 | 01:34:15,590 | 只是紧急在用便用的 |
| 01:34:15,590 | 01:34:17,429 | 他的投资法不划算 |
| 01:34:17,429 | 01:34:19,830 | 大家都是将本求利的 |
| 01:34:19,830 | 01:34:21,910 | 只要台积电有办法 |
| 01:34:21,910 | 01:34:22,830 | 高利润 |
| 01:34:22,830 | 01:34:24,389 | 毛利能到85 |
| 01:34:25,060 | 01:34:27,580 | 到80的企业才有办法 |
| 01:34:27,580 | 01:34:28,940 | 好好考量一下 |
| 01:34:28,940 | 01:34:30,540 | 不反对你们做 |
| 01:34:30,540 | 01:34:32,540 | 把自己的重点 |
| 01:34:32,540 | 01:34:34,180 | 纳在那边 |
| 01:34:34,180 | 01:34:36,220 | 所以自用自备花电 |
| 01:34:36,220 | 01:34:39,340 | 你现在一个标准条件要出来 |
| 01:34:40,090 | 01:34:43,010 | 让这些能源大户有 |
| 01:34:43,750 | 01:34:45,310 | 可以征行的方向 |
| 01:34:45,310 | 01:34:46,670 | 不容易投资错了 |
| 01:34:46,670 | 01:34:48,310 | 这不是休息 |
| 01:34:48,310 | 01:34:51,670 | 你一个能源的成本都要好几亿 |
| 01:34:51,670 | 01:34:52,230 | 好不好 |
| 01:34:52,230 | 01:34:53,870 | 特别注意这一点 |
| 01:34:54,550 | 01:34:55,510 | 再来 |
| 01:34:56,370 | 01:34:57,610 | 我一直很生气 |
| 01:34:58,200 | 01:35:01,360 | 我们AI资料中心的纳管 |
| 01:35:01,960 | 01:35:05,120 | 那经济部在7月1号 |
| 01:35:06,160 | 01:35:09,000 | 有一个易高修正能源开发 |
| 01:35:09,000 | 01:35:11,800 | 及使用评估的诊者 |
| 01:35:11,800 | 01:35:13,960 | 所谓被5Mbps |
| 01:35:14,560 | 01:35:16,400 | 以上的资料中心要 |
| 01:35:16,980 | 01:35:18,019 | 点个寻查 |
| 01:35:19,030 | 01:35:20,790 | 以前台电的董事长 |
| 01:35:20,790 | 01:35:22,150 | 在请教他的时候 |
| 01:35:22,820 | 01:35:23,460 | 他就说 |
| 01:35:23,460 | 01:35:24,700 | 桃园以北 |
| 01:35:24,700 | 01:35:27,139 | 因为电网的贫穷 |
| 01:35:27,139 | 01:35:28,780 | 所以要设立5Mbps |
| 01:35:28,780 | 01:35:31,700 | 以上的资料中心 |
| 01:35:31,700 | 01:35:33,580 | 是非常困难的 |
| 01:35:33,580 | 01:35:37,139 | 那在2024年的9月 |
| 01:35:37,139 | 01:35:39,860 | 台电的供电会议决议 |
| 01:35:39,860 | 01:35:42,259 | 桃园以北暂缓供电 |
| 01:35:43,220 | 01:35:46,140 | 这个都是这样一路下来的 |
| 01:35:46,140 | 01:35:48,340 | 但是部长你到桃园说 |
| 01:35:48,340 | 01:35:49,380 | 这个没有问题 |
| 01:35:50,140 | 01:35:52,060 | 和Umega以上没有问题 |
| 01:35:52,620 | 01:35:54,260 | 其实你7月1号 |
| 01:35:54,260 | 01:35:55,900 | 才修正能源开发 |
| 01:35:55,900 | 01:35:57,860 | 及使用评估的诊者 |
| 01:35:57,860 | 01:35:59,140 | 大家都很紧张 |
| 01:36:00,350 | 01:36:01,830 | 到底在桃园以北 |
| 01:36:01,830 | 01:36:02,950 | 有没有问题 |
| 01:36:02,950 | 01:36:05,790 | 阿民的电网已经均一完成了 |
| 01:36:06,430 | 01:36:07,670 | 阿你那个什么 |
| 01:36:07,670 | 01:36:10,110 | 变电站那些都没有完成 |
| 01:36:10,760 | 01:36:12,640 | 你到底有去跟他们打招呼吗 |
| 01:36:12,640 | 01:36:14,200 | 现在大家欲望都说 |
| 01:36:14,200 | 01:36:15,440 | 跑到桃园去 |
| 01:36:16,440 | 01:36:19,000 | 报告委员因为桃园以北 |
| 01:36:19,000 | 01:36:20,919 | 事实上他是比较 |
| 01:36:20,919 | 01:36:22,719 | 都市比较多 |
| 01:36:22,719 | 01:36:25,799 | 那些电网人也比较密集 |
| 01:36:25,799 | 01:36:26,599 | 那这些电网 |
| 01:36:26,599 | 01:36:28,200 | 因为你要做算力中心 |
| 01:36:28,200 | 01:36:30,000 | 如果是5Mbps以上的话 |
| 01:36:30,000 | 01:36:31,879 | 要拉比较高的电压 |
| 01:36:31,879 | 01:36:33,639 | 需要比较高的电压 |
| 01:36:33,639 | 01:36:35,480 | 你一讲下来 |
| 01:36:35,480 | 01:36:36,839 | 不管你几Mbps |
| 01:36:36,839 | 01:36:37,639 | 2Mbps |
| 01:36:37,639 | 01:36:38,320 | 3Mbps |
| 01:36:38,320 | 01:36:38,759 | 怎么样 |
| 01:36:38,759 | 01:36:41,719 | 大家都会逃避到5Mbps以下 |
| 01:36:41,719 | 01:36:43,080 | 但是我分散式了 |
| 01:36:43,080 | 01:36:44,559 | 你会受不了 |
| 01:36:44,559 | 01:36:45,240 | 所以我们希望 |
| 01:36:45,280 | 01:36:46,920 | 现在已经发觉这样 |
| 01:36:46,920 | 01:36:49,000 | 内湖地区好几个 |
| 01:36:49,570 | 01:36:52,530 | 好 那个AI的算力中心在 |
| 01:36:53,060 | 01:36:55,420 | 那易用电下来都很吓人 |
| 01:36:56,700 | 01:36:59,019 | 所以你要好好考虑这个问题 |
| 01:36:59,019 | 01:37:00,300 | AI算力中心 |
| 01:37:02,860 | 01:37:03,820 | 不论大风 |
| 01:37:03,820 | 01:37:05,580 | 电力中心会是在北部 |
| 01:37:06,230 | 01:37:09,349 | 他们究竟能看管得到 |
| 01:37:10,330 | 01:37:13,809 | 那对我们民生用电的压力会非常大 |
| 01:37:14,720 | 01:37:17,520 | 是 所以我们才有这样的相关规范 |
| 01:37:17,520 | 01:37:19,040 | 你如果说 |
| 01:37:19,040 | 01:37:21,000 | 你如果要超过5Mbps以上的话 |
| 01:37:21,000 | 01:37:22,920 | 比较大型的算力中心的话 |
| 01:37:22,920 | 01:37:23,920 | 我跟讲 |
| 01:37:23,920 | 01:37:25,320 | 大部分在2Mbps |
| 01:37:25,320 | 01:37:28,000 | 3Mbps上面加起来就很吓人 |
| 01:37:28,660 | 01:37:31,019 | 我上次也问你 |
| 01:37:31,019 | 01:37:33,700 | 我说AI的算力中心 |
| 01:37:33,700 | 01:37:36,820 | 不是说只有5Mbps以上才会去审查 |
| 01:37:36,820 | 01:37:39,620 | 5Mbps以下还是看区域的电网 |
| 01:37:39,620 | 01:37:41,660 | 设在5Mbps以下 |
| 01:37:41,660 | 01:37:45,380 | 这样子比较能避开你们严格的审查 |
| 01:37:45,380 | 01:37:46,780 | 我是不是先跟你提醒 |
| 01:37:46,780 | 01:37:48,820 | 现在已经有好几家在做了 |
| 01:37:48,820 | 01:37:50,099 | 是 如果说 |
| 01:37:50,099 | 01:37:53,019 | 很多的2Mbps 3Mbps在区域建起来 |
| 01:37:53,019 | 01:37:55,660 | 但是影响到电网的安全的话 |
| 01:37:55,660 | 01:37:57,500 | 大概也还是没有办法投降 |
| 01:37:58,780 | 01:38:00,740 | 所以你不关心苗栗水 |
| 01:38:00,740 | 01:38:03,019 | 我们有通宵火力化电厂 |
| 01:38:03,019 | 01:38:05,420 | 我们在旁边很近 |
| 01:38:05,420 | 01:38:07,220 | 而且我们是屈辽地 |
| 01:38:07,220 | 01:38:08,220 | 你有没有看到 |
| 01:38:08,930 | 01:38:11,530 | 美国跟伊朗在打仗 |
| 01:38:11,530 | 01:38:14,930 | 他打到那个杜拜的Google |
| 01:38:14,930 | 01:38:18,250 | MVL的市区中心先把他打掉 |
| 01:38:18,790 | 01:38:21,030 | 市在台北那边很容易变差 |
| 01:38:21,620 | 01:38:23,220 | 设置到苗栗最安全 |
| 01:38:23,800 | 01:38:25,320 | 4Mbps3Mbps3 |
| 01:38:26,100 | 01:38:27,660 | 2Mbps3Mbps水库 |
| 01:38:27,660 | 01:38:29,300 | 还有天花湖水库 |
| 01:38:32,510 | 01:38:34,150 | 我听到你们声响 |
| 01:38:34,740 | 01:38:36,139 | 我再讲一次 |
| 01:38:36,139 | 01:38:36,980 | 不谈欧党 |
| 01:38:37,860 | 01:38:40,259 | 你要平均的分布在我这边 |
| 01:38:40,860 | 01:38:44,259 | 打的时候区域地比较安全一点 |
| 01:38:44,259 | 01:38:46,259 | 土地也非常困扣 |
| 01:38:46,259 | 01:38:48,740 | 通宵火力化电厂也够 |
| 01:38:48,740 | 01:38:50,019 | 你也给我们推荐 |
| 01:38:50,019 | 01:38:52,219 | 你要来导师叫来表演 |
| 01:38:52,219 | 01:38:56,660 | 我们成立AI专利特区的土地给他们 |
| 01:38:57,300 | 01:38:59,780 | 这是我们中共女省长意识拜托 |
| 01:39:00,490 | 01:39:01,969 | 这个非常不错 |
| 01:39:02,670 | 01:39:04,230 | 你们拜托他 |
| 01:39:04,230 | 01:39:07,630 | 把要设AI中心的那一些不要在北部 |
| 01:39:07,630 | 01:39:10,950 | 用电那么量会影响到民生用电 |
| 01:39:10,950 | 01:39:12,510 | 大家会非常紧张 |
| 01:39:13,120 | 01:39:16,280 | 现在美国加州有一个大的AI中心 |
| 01:39:16,280 | 01:39:18,360 | 被当地的州长取消了 |
| 01:39:23,740 | 01:39:26,139 | 你看我一直点头 |
| 01:39:26,139 | 01:39:27,300 | 你一直点头 |
| 01:39:27,300 | 01:39:28,500 | 你真的 |
| 01:39:28,500 | 01:39:29,620 | 好 |
| 01:39:29,620 | 01:39:31,900 | 我就跟我们国家提出计划出来 |
| 01:39:31,900 | 01:39:33,019 | 先给你感谢 |
| 01:39:33,019 | 01:39:33,500 | 多谢 |
| 01:39:33,500 | 01:39:33,940 | 谢谢 |
| 01:39:35,820 | 01:39:38,380 | 谢谢陈商铭委员实现掌握非常精准 |
| 01:39:39,760 | 01:39:40,760 | 多谢 |
| 01:39:40,760 | 01:39:41,559 | 部长请不坐 |
| 01:39:43,000 | 01:39:45,200 | 我们在郑天才委员执行完之后 |
| 01:39:45,200 | 01:39:46,840 | 我们休息五分钟 |
| 01:39:46,840 | 01:39:47,080 | 好 |
| 01:39:47,080 | 01:39:48,719 | 下位指揮官请郑天才委员 |
| 01:40:08,550 | 01:40:09,150 | 主席 |
| 01:40:09,150 | 01:40:10,550 | 有请部长 |
| 01:40:10,550 | 01:40:11,630 | 请经济部总部长 |
| 01:40:18,010 | 01:40:19,970 | 部长好 |
| 01:40:20,820 | 01:40:23,179 | 今天审查能源管理法 |
| 01:40:23,179 | 01:40:25,300 | 上次也有询答过 |
| 01:40:25,300 | 01:40:25,740 | 因为 |
| 01:40:26,759 | 01:40:28,719 | 这一板最近才送来 |
| 01:40:28,719 | 01:40:29,879 | 所以今天审查 |
| 01:40:31,710 | 01:40:33,470 | 能源管理法第二条 |
| 01:40:33,470 | 01:40:35,309 | 行政院版有第二条 |
| 01:40:36,020 | 01:40:39,220 | 本席又提出第二条增加再生能源 |
| 01:40:39,220 | 01:40:40,060 | 是 |
| 01:40:40,060 | 01:40:43,300 | 那行政院版有多一个第七款 |
| 01:40:43,300 | 01:40:46,700 | 增烈第七款热能 |
| 01:40:46,700 | 01:40:48,180 | 这个热能 |
| 01:40:48,180 | 01:40:49,820 | 热能这两个字 |
| 01:40:51,120 | 01:40:52,200 | 目前没有定议 |
| 01:40:52,200 | 01:40:52,720 | 看不错 |
| 01:40:52,720 | 01:40:53,960 | 我看了这个 |
| 01:40:53,960 | 01:40:55,080 | 所有的法规 |
| 01:40:55,620 | 01:40:56,580 | 没有定议 |
| 01:40:57,960 | 01:41:01,480 | 在我们现行的能源管理法第四条 |
| 01:41:01,480 | 01:41:02,720 | 有热能这两个字 |
| 01:41:03,640 | 01:41:04,920 | 有热能这两个字 |
| 01:41:05,600 | 01:41:07,440 | 所以这个我们等一下可以讨论 |
| 01:41:08,280 | 01:41:10,400 | 在行政院版的 |
| 01:41:11,710 | 01:41:12,830 | 这个说明里面 |
| 01:41:13,370 | 01:41:14,490 | 针对热能 |
| 01:41:14,490 | 01:41:16,769 | 在第十说明二里面也特别提到 |
| 01:41:17,850 | 01:41:19,690 | 考量第四条有关 |
| 01:41:20,320 | 01:41:22,639 | 气垫供生之规定 |
| 01:41:22,639 | 01:41:25,160 | 食物上以纳管增气 |
| 01:41:26,010 | 01:41:27,650 | 及热能 |
| 01:41:27,650 | 01:41:29,450 | 所以到底是增气还是热能 |
| 01:41:29,450 | 01:41:30,130 | 还是两个字 |
| 01:41:30,130 | 01:41:30,690 | 一样的 |
| 01:41:31,340 | 01:41:32,060 | 所以这个 |
| 01:41:32,060 | 01:41:34,220 | 所以就必须要去评 |
| 01:41:34,220 | 01:41:35,180 | 去考量 |
| 01:41:35,740 | 01:41:36,860 | 这个热能 |
| 01:41:36,860 | 01:41:38,380 | 居然已经放在 |
| 01:41:39,090 | 01:41:42,250 | 这个本法所称的能源 |
| 01:41:42,250 | 01:41:44,250 | 那要不要另外把热能 |
| 01:41:44,250 | 01:41:46,410 | 要不要另外做定议 |
| 01:41:46,410 | 01:41:49,610 | 这个是需要去讨论的 |
| 01:41:49,610 | 01:41:51,530 | 这个是需要去讨论的 |
| 01:41:51,530 | 01:41:53,010 | 因为 |
| 01:41:53,010 | 01:41:54,930 | 因为这个再生能源 |
| 01:41:57,110 | 01:41:58,389 | 再生能源 |
| 01:41:58,389 | 01:41:59,150 | 发展条例 |
| 01:41:59,770 | 01:42:00,610 | 第三条 |
| 01:42:01,510 | 01:42:03,270 | 对于再生能源 |
| 01:42:03,270 | 01:42:03,990 | 有做定议 |
| 01:42:04,620 | 01:42:06,260 | 它包含了太阳能 |
| 01:42:06,260 | 01:42:07,420 | 生殖能 |
| 01:42:07,420 | 01:42:08,019 | 地热能 |
| 01:42:08,880 | 01:42:09,720 | 所以会 |
| 01:42:10,590 | 01:42:11,950 | 如果没有去注意看 |
| 01:42:11,950 | 01:42:13,670 | 以为那个热能就是地热能 |
| 01:42:14,420 | 01:42:15,420 | 没有去注意看的话 |
| 01:42:15,420 | 01:42:16,060 | 就说这个 |
| 01:42:17,670 | 01:42:19,510 | 行政院把未来这个通过的话 |
| 01:42:19,510 | 01:42:20,110 | 是涵盖 |
| 01:42:20,110 | 01:42:20,910 | 涵盖 |
| 01:42:20,910 | 01:42:22,190 | 这个热能第七款 |
| 01:42:22,190 | 01:42:23,310 | 这个部分就会 |
| 01:42:23,310 | 01:42:24,350 | 但是不需要 |
| 01:42:24,350 | 01:42:25,430 | 互以为 |
| 01:42:25,430 | 01:42:26,190 | 所以这个部分 |
| 01:42:26,190 | 01:42:28,030 | 会有这样的一个 |
| 01:42:28,030 | 01:42:28,830 | 可能性 |
| 01:42:29,510 | 01:42:30,750 | 因为毕竟 |
| 01:42:30,750 | 01:42:31,510 | 执行的 |
| 01:42:31,510 | 01:42:32,550 | 或是说 |
| 01:42:32,550 | 01:42:33,270 | 或是民间 |
| 01:42:33,940 | 01:42:35,099 | 它未必 |
| 01:42:35,099 | 01:42:36,019 | 那个法规 |
| 01:42:36,019 | 01:42:37,940 | 那么的详细的去看 |
| 01:42:38,860 | 01:42:39,620 | 所以这个部分 |
| 01:42:39,620 | 01:42:41,740 | 因为在再生能源的 |
| 01:42:41,740 | 01:42:42,620 | 定议里面 |
| 01:42:43,599 | 01:42:44,559 | 就说这个 |
| 01:42:44,559 | 01:42:45,840 | 生殖能是怎么 |
| 01:42:45,840 | 01:42:46,960 | 另外再定议 |
| 01:42:46,960 | 01:42:47,480 | 有没有 |
| 01:42:47,480 | 01:42:48,160 | 地热能 |
| 01:42:48,160 | 01:42:48,960 | 另外再定议 |
| 01:42:49,540 | 01:42:50,260 | 阳能 |
| 01:42:50,260 | 01:42:51,020 | 也另外定议 |
| 01:42:51,660 | 01:42:52,460 | 所以我们再 |
| 01:42:53,840 | 01:42:55,000 | 针对这个 |
| 01:42:55,000 | 01:42:57,760 | 能源管理法第二条行政院版 |
| 01:42:57,760 | 01:42:59,640 | 加了一个热能 |
| 01:42:59,640 | 01:43:00,360 | 所以 |
| 01:43:00,360 | 01:43:01,320 | 就必须考量 |
| 01:43:01,320 | 01:43:02,160 | 何况 |
| 01:43:02,160 | 01:43:04,560 | 第十条就有热能的用字了 |
| 01:43:04,560 | 01:43:05,320 | 但是没有定议 |
| 01:43:06,070 | 01:43:06,830 | 所以这个部分 |
| 01:43:06,830 | 01:43:07,349 | 为了 |
| 01:43:08,260 | 01:43:09,780 | 让大家都能够 |
| 01:43:09,780 | 01:43:10,820 | 很明确 |
| 01:43:10,820 | 01:43:12,060 | 去了解 |
| 01:43:12,060 | 01:43:12,700 | 我们再 |
| 01:43:12,700 | 01:43:14,300 | 再请行政院 |
| 01:43:14,300 | 01:43:15,460 | 经济部 |
| 01:43:15,460 | 01:43:16,540 | 这边再研议 |
| 01:43:16,540 | 01:43:16,980 | 看看 |
| 01:43:16,980 | 01:43:17,980 | 在我们 |
| 01:43:17,980 | 01:43:20,020 | 逐条审查的时候 |
| 01:43:20,020 | 01:43:23,220 | 是不是要做这样的一个 |
| 01:43:23,220 | 01:43:25,780 | 增加这样的一个定议 |
| 01:43:25,780 | 01:43:27,460 | 所以这个部分 |
| 01:43:27,460 | 01:43:28,500 | 这个我们再 |
| 01:43:28,500 | 01:43:29,340 | 请经济部 |
| 01:43:29,340 | 01:43:30,580 | 这边再 |
| 01:43:30,580 | 01:43:31,500 | 再评估 |
| 01:43:31,500 | 01:43:31,900 | 好 |
| 01:43:31,900 | 01:43:32,540 | 可以吗 |
| 01:43:32,540 | 01:43:32,780 | 可以 |
| 01:43:32,780 | 01:43:33,780 | 我们再 |
| 01:43:33,780 | 01:43:35,740 | 看看要再说明了里面 |
| 01:43:35,740 | 01:43:37,260 | 增加您刚才提到的定议 |
| 01:43:37,260 | 01:43:38,340 | 或是在哪里 |
| 01:43:38,340 | 01:43:40,180 | 我们来加强说明 |
| 01:43:40,180 | 01:43:41,340 | 对 |
| 01:43:41,340 | 01:43:42,060 | 或者是说 |
| 01:43:42,060 | 01:43:42,820 | 能够 |
| 01:43:42,820 | 01:43:45,060 | 另外定议更好 |
| 01:43:45,060 | 01:43:45,940 | 这个是会 |
| 01:43:45,940 | 01:43:47,780 | 因为等于是有 |
| 01:43:47,780 | 01:43:48,980 | 他是跟这个 |
| 01:43:49,720 | 01:43:51,000 | 再生能源 |
| 01:43:51,730 | 01:43:53,690 | 发展条例的地热能 |
| 01:43:53,690 | 01:43:54,650 | 有所差 |
| 01:43:54,650 | 01:43:56,570 | 有所区别 |
| 01:43:56,570 | 01:43:57,849 | 就会很明确 |
| 01:43:57,849 | 01:43:59,129 | 就会很清楚 |
| 01:43:59,129 | 01:44:00,209 | 不然的话一下子 |
| 01:44:00,209 | 01:44:02,450 | 会以为是这个地热能 |
| 01:44:02,450 | 01:44:02,849 | 因为 |
| 01:44:03,500 | 01:44:05,740 | 这个地热能相关的这些 |
| 01:44:05,740 | 01:44:06,420 | 定议 |
| 01:44:06,420 | 01:44:08,060 | 或者是说相关的这些 |
| 01:44:09,590 | 01:44:12,110 | 也都有相关的规定 |
| 01:44:12,110 | 01:44:12,750 | 比如说 |
| 01:44:14,240 | 01:44:14,800 | 这个 |
| 01:44:15,420 | 01:44:16,700 | sauna |
| 01:44:16,860 | 01:44:19,019 | 因為有再生能源條例 有地熱能 |
| 01:44:19,590 | 01:44:21,090 | 所以才會有 |
| 01:44:21,690 | 01:44:26,490 | 地熱能探勘以開發許可及管理辦法第九條 |
| 01:44:26,790 | 01:44:27,790 | 它就有 |
| 01:44:27,790 | 01:44:30,589 | 所以這個會牽扯到 |
| 01:44:30,589 | 01:44:31,889 | 會相關啦 |
| 01:44:31,889 | 01:44:34,990 | 所以我的建議就是說熱能的部分 |
| 01:44:34,990 | 01:44:37,990 | 如果能做出定義的話啦 |
| 01:44:37,990 | 01:44:38,990 | 如果啦 |
| 01:44:38,990 | 01:44:41,990 | 當然我們在築條的時候可以把它 |
| 01:44:41,990 | 01:44:43,490 | 再納入 |
| 01:44:43,490 | 01:44:44,990 | 這是第一個 |
| 01:44:45,600 | 01:44:48,600 | 那我就回到這個地熱能這邊 |
| 01:44:49,070 | 01:44:52,570 | 因為它是一個再生能源發展條例所明定的 |
| 01:44:52,570 | 01:44:53,570 | 地熱能 |
| 01:44:54,170 | 01:44:56,470 | 所以相關地熱能的這些 |
| 01:44:57,060 | 01:45:00,860 | 要去探勘或是開發許可 |
| 01:45:01,270 | 01:45:03,270 | 就定了一個管理辦法 |
| 01:45:03,270 | 01:45:05,270 | 這管理辦法裡面 |
| 01:45:05,780 | 01:45:06,780 | 第四 |
| 01:45:07,740 | 01:45:08,740 | 第四款 |
| 01:45:08,740 | 01:45:10,040 | 第一項的第四款 |
| 01:45:10,040 | 01:45:11,540 | 第九條的第四款 |
| 01:45:12,240 | 01:45:16,240 | 開發場址位於原住民族土地或部落 |
| 01:45:16,240 | 01:45:20,240 | 及其周邊一定範圍內之公有土地者 |
| 01:45:20,240 | 01:45:24,240 | 應檢附於原住民族基本法第21條規定 |
| 01:45:24,240 | 01:45:26,240 | 辦理之相關證明文件 |
| 01:45:27,950 | 01:45:29,950 | 現在在執行上 |
| 01:45:29,950 | 01:45:32,950 | 這個原住民族部落 |
| 01:45:33,200 | 01:45:35,200 | 跟我們的這些 |
| 01:45:36,140 | 01:45:37,140 | 開發 |
| 01:45:37,140 | 01:45:38,140 | 單位 |
| 01:45:38,800 | 01:45:39,800 | 或是 |
| 01:45:40,120 | 01:45:42,120 | 這個主管機關 |
| 01:45:41,890 | 01:45:42,890 | 會產生一個 |
| 01:45:44,470 | 01:45:46,470 | 一直以來的爭議 |
| 01:45:47,530 | 01:45:50,530 | 就是說這個因為你們寫的是開發場址 |
| 01:45:51,490 | 01:45:52,490 | 開發場址 |
| 01:45:53,330 | 01:45:56,330 | 地熱能的開發場址 |
| 01:45:57,430 | 01:45:59,430 | 好 |
| 01:45:58,290 | 01:46:00,290 | 要依這個原基法21條 |
| 01:46:01,160 | 01:46:02,160 | 就變成說 |
| 01:46:02,450 | 01:46:06,450 | 通常開發場址就是在那個地熱能的前面 |
| 01:46:07,710 | 01:46:09,710 | 這個開發場址 |
| 01:46:10,410 | 01:46:12,410 | 事實上地熱在裡面 |
| 01:46:12,940 | 01:46:13,940 | 地熱能 |
| 01:46:14,210 | 01:46:16,210 | 地熱能在裡面 |
| 01:46:16,620 | 01:46:19,620 | 他會他的周邊就不是這個 |
| 01:46:19,620 | 01:46:21,620 | 這個旁邊的部落 |
| 01:46:21,620 | 01:46:23,620 | 他可能會是另外一個部落 |
| 01:46:25,210 | 01:46:27,210 | 好 |
| 01:46:25,950 | 01:46:27,950 | 就會產生這樣的一個 |
| 01:46:28,350 | 01:46:30,350 | E |
| 01:46:29,530 | 01:46:31,530 | 事實上我在這個 |
| 01:46:31,530 | 01:46:33,530 | 我有召開過協調會 |
| 01:46:34,800 | 01:46:36,800 | 也邀請過這個經濟部 |
| 01:46:37,980 | 01:46:40,980 | 即應該是能源署吧 |
| 01:46:41,380 | 01:46:43,380 | 所以也也討論過這個部分 |
| 01:46:43,380 | 01:46:45,380 | 所以你們要去 |
| 01:46:45,810 | 01:46:46,810 | 針對這個 |
| 01:46:47,810 | 01:46:49,810 | 這個管理辦法第九條 |
| 01:46:49,810 | 01:46:51,810 | 或是其他的條文跟地熱能 |
| 01:46:52,720 | 01:46:54,720 | 的探勘開發 |
| 01:46:54,560 | 01:46:55,560 | 的時候 |
| 01:46:55,560 | 01:46:57,560 | 要依原基法21條 |
| 01:46:57,560 | 01:46:59,560 | 來去辦理這個 |
| 01:46:59,560 | 01:47:01,560 | 諮商部落諮商同意的時候 |
| 01:47:02,770 | 01:47:04,770 | 這個就必須要去 |
| 01:47:04,770 | 01:47:06,770 | 因為現在目前就是有這樣的一個爭議 |
| 01:47:07,630 | 01:47:09,630 | 當目前的做法就是 |
| 01:47:10,080 | 01:47:12,080 | 就是在那個 |
| 01:47:11,530 | 01:47:13,530 | 地熱能因為你地熱能開發場子 |
| 01:47:13,530 | 01:47:15,530 | 當然會是比較平坦的地方 |
| 01:47:17,240 | 01:47:19,240 | 對不對 事實上地熱在裡面 |
| 01:47:19,990 | 01:47:21,990 | 地熱能在裡面 |
| 01:47:21,910 | 01:47:23,910 | 它可能還這個可能很遠 |
| 01:47:23,910 | 01:47:25,910 | 所以會產生這樣的一個 |
| 01:47:25,910 | 01:47:27,910 | 在執行上 |
| 01:47:29,610 | 01:47:31,610 | 對部落的諮商同意的 |
| 01:47:34,090 | 01:47:36,090 | 執行上都會產生這樣的疑問 |
| 01:47:36,090 | 01:47:38,090 | 所以這個部分請這個 |
| 01:47:38,090 | 01:47:40,090 | 經濟部能源署 |
| 01:47:40,090 | 01:47:42,090 | 或是相關機關 |
| 01:47:42,090 | 01:47:44,090 | 再研議好不好 |
| 01:47:45,130 | 01:47:47,130 | 來瞭解一下 |
| 01:47:48,130 | 01:47:50,130 | 謝謝政務委員部長辛苦之後 |
| 01:47:50,130 | 01:47:52,130 | 我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| 01:53:03,290 | 01:53:05,290 | 好請立席關心請就座 |
| 01:53:05,290 | 01:53:07,290 | 我們繼續開會 |
| 01:53:06,400 | 01:53:08,400 | 下一聲請謝一鳳謝一鳳謝一鳳不在 |
| 01:53:08,400 | 01:53:10,400 | 下一聲請鍾嘉斌委員 |
| 01:53:23,540 | 01:53:25,540 | 主席再談委員先進 |
| 01:53:25,540 | 01:53:27,540 | 列席政府軍事法官員會場公眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生 |
| 01:53:27,540 | 01:53:29,540 | 有請拱部長跟吳署長 |
| 01:53:29,540 | 01:53:31,540 | 請記住拱部長能源署吳署長 |
| 01:53:37,040 | 01:53:39,040 | 部長好署長好 |
| 01:53:39,040 | 01:53:41,040 | 今天我是說要求競速評估 |
| 01:53:41,040 | 01:53:43,040 | 自備發電的設備選項 |
| 01:53:43,040 | 01:53:45,040 | 還有盤點我們消防公安都計的 |
| 01:53:45,040 | 01:53:47,040 | 配套法規為什麼呢我們先看一下 |
| 01:53:47,040 | 01:53:49,040 | 今天我看之前的委員 |
| 01:53:49,040 | 01:53:51,040 | 都詢問過你們的執法 |
| 01:53:51,040 | 01:53:53,040 | 因為你們這次能源管理法 |
| 01:53:53,040 | 01:53:55,040 | 因應電力用電的成長需求你們修訂了 |
| 01:53:55,040 | 01:53:57,040 | 而且還有個用電大戶的 |
| 01:53:57,040 | 01:53:59,040 | 條款說到5MW以上 |
| 01:53:59,040 | 01:54:01,040 | 要自備發電設施結果 |
| 01:54:01,040 | 01:54:03,040 | 股市怎麼反應 |
| 01:54:03,040 | 01:54:05,040 | 現在雖然上禮拜 |
| 01:54:05,040 | 01:54:07,040 | 到現在股市這個 |
| 01:54:07,040 | 01:54:09,040 | 雲霄飛車啊但是呢 |
| 01:54:09,040 | 01:54:11,040 | 儲能股跟能源股呢好像都還是 |
| 01:54:11,040 | 01:54:13,040 | 被看好請問部長 |
| 01:54:13,040 | 01:54:15,040 | 今天大家一直問你說公務 |
| 01:54:15,040 | 01:54:17,040 | 部執法的內容你你知道為什麼大家 |
| 01:54:17,040 | 01:54:19,040 | 都在關心嗎 |
| 01:54:19,430 | 01:54:21,430 | 股票的關係還是什麼關係 |
| 01:54:22,280 | 01:54:24,280 | 發委員因為這個是 |
| 01:54:24,280 | 01:54:26,280 | 有苛責企業界的責任 |
| 01:54:26,280 | 01:54:28,280 | 大家都很關心他 |
| 01:54:28,280 | 01:54:30,280 | 會不會被苛責到所以供應商 |
| 01:54:30,280 | 01:54:32,280 | 他就強調你們修法之後呢 |
| 01:54:32,280 | 01:54:34,280 | 你們要買他的產品需求者 |
| 01:54:34,280 | 01:54:36,280 | 他擔心成本我到底要不要 |
| 01:54:36,280 | 01:54:38,280 | 去徵購這些設備對不對 |
| 01:54:38,280 | 01:54:40,280 | 站在我們企業營運的角度他一定會 |
| 01:54:40,280 | 01:54:42,280 | 關心到底他未來要因應法規 |
| 01:54:42,280 | 01:54:44,280 | 調整他去做什麼樣的 |
| 01:54:44,280 | 01:54:46,280 | 配合好那我們看到 |
| 01:54:46,280 | 01:54:48,280 | 這裡面有個很關鍵的過去比較沒有 |
| 01:54:48,280 | 01:54:50,280 | 出現的過去我們任何 |
| 01:54:50,280 | 01:54:52,280 | 的事業都要有個緊急 |
| 01:54:52,280 | 01:54:54,280 | 備援對不對 |
| 01:54:54,280 | 01:54:56,280 | 現在你們對這個自備發電 |
| 01:54:56,280 | 01:54:58,280 | 到底緊急備援可不可以記錄自備 |
| 01:54:58,280 | 01:55:00,280 | 發電的容量當中 |
| 01:55:00,280 | 01:55:02,280 | 目前 |
| 01:55:02,020 | 01:55:04,020 | 部長或者署長你們有沒有一個明確的 |
| 01:55:04,020 | 01:55:06,020 | 最後要宣示 |
| 01:55:06,510 | 01:55:08,510 | 就是我們還要跟相關的 |
| 01:55:08,510 | 01:55:10,510 | 利害關係人做一些討論 |
| 01:55:10,510 | 01:55:12,510 | 那我試著來詮釋一下 |
| 01:55:12,510 | 01:55:14,510 | 緊急備援跟自備 |
| 01:55:14,510 | 01:55:16,510 | 發電是兩碼子事 |
| 01:55:16,510 | 01:55:18,510 | 緊急備援我是馬克風公司 |
| 01:55:18,510 | 01:55:20,510 | 我不是生產事業但是我要緊急備援 |
| 01:55:20,510 | 01:55:22,510 | 電梯不能停 |
| 01:55:22,390 | 01:55:24,390 | 照明不能停 |
| 01:55:24,390 | 01:55:26,390 | 狀況發生的時候疏散顧客對不對 |
| 01:55:26,390 | 01:55:28,390 | 但是我不需要什麼 |
| 01:55:28,390 | 01:55:30,390 | 自備發電來供應我的冷氣 |
| 01:55:30,390 | 01:55:32,390 | 因為公共電力網給我營業 |
| 01:55:32,390 | 01:55:34,390 | 場所電力我就營業 |
| 01:55:34,740 | 01:55:36,740 | 公共電力網中斷我可能就營業中斷 |
| 01:55:36,740 | 01:55:38,740 | 我只要把顧客疏散 |
| 01:55:38,740 | 01:55:40,740 | 好就好但是製造 |
| 01:55:40,740 | 01:55:42,740 | 業他不同我們希望 |
| 01:55:42,740 | 01:55:44,740 | 減輕公共電力網的負荷 |
| 01:55:44,740 | 01:55:46,740 | 希望大電力用戶你要的電 |
| 01:55:46,740 | 01:55:48,740 | 自己發所以這是增加了 |
| 01:55:48,740 | 01:55:50,740 | 自備發電這樣的要求是不是 |
| 01:55:50,740 | 01:55:52,740 | 這個原因 |
| 01:55:52,800 | 01:55:54,800 | 也有增加韌性 |
| 01:55:54,800 | 01:55:56,800 | 減輕公共電網的負荷 |
| 01:55:56,800 | 01:55:58,800 | 讓電網的韌性提高 |
| 01:55:58,800 | 01:56:00,800 | 所以這種情況之下 |
| 01:56:00,800 | 01:56:02,800 | 過去的傳統備援會用什麼 |
| 01:56:02,800 | 01:56:04,800 | 才有電力 |
| 01:56:04,210 | 01:56:06,210 | 你看你後面那個 |
| 01:56:06,210 | 01:56:08,210 | 擴音器後面那個緊急照明 |
| 01:56:08,210 | 01:56:10,210 | 他用什麼 |
| 01:56:09,370 | 01:56:11,370 | 他接去電池啊 |
| 01:56:11,370 | 01:56:13,370 | 他接我們現在的電力把他充電 |
| 01:56:13,370 | 01:56:15,370 | 萬一我們現在電力斷了 |
| 01:56:15,370 | 01:56:17,370 | 他裡面的充電的電池就怎麼樣 |
| 01:56:17,370 | 01:56:19,370 | 就讓他發光是不是這樣子 |
| 01:56:19,370 | 01:56:21,370 | 備援電力一般就是用電池 |
| 01:56:21,370 | 01:56:23,370 | 不然就是用柴油發電 |
| 01:56:23,370 | 01:56:25,370 | 可是柴油發電有沒有風險 |
| 01:56:24,390 | 01:56:26,390 | 有風險啊 |
| 01:56:26,390 | 01:56:28,390 | 過去在我們屏東的安胎醫院又發生什麼 |
| 01:56:28,390 | 01:56:30,390 | 他把柴油發電的備援電力在颱風天 |
| 01:56:30,390 | 01:56:32,390 | 他放在不該放的地方 |
| 01:56:32,390 | 01:56:34,390 | 引發了這些悲劇 |
| 01:56:34,390 | 01:56:36,390 | 我們很遺憾他有噪音有空污 |
| 01:56:36,390 | 01:56:38,390 | 有光暗的風險 |
| 01:56:38,390 | 01:56:40,390 | 所以備援電力的設備選項 |
| 01:56:41,790 | 01:56:43,790 | 我們其實雖然涉及到的是其他的項目 |
| 01:56:43,790 | 01:56:45,790 | 但是經濟部要有個明確的說明 |
| 01:56:45,790 | 01:56:47,790 | 部長你是不是認為 |
| 01:56:47,790 | 01:56:49,790 | 未來我們的備援電力 |
| 01:56:49,790 | 01:56:51,790 | 緊急備援應該要有新的 |
| 01:56:51,790 | 01:56:53,790 | 想法減少這些 |
| 01:56:53,790 | 01:56:55,790 | 有危害性的這些設備 |
| 01:56:57,360 | 01:56:59,360 | 所以報告委員 |
| 01:56:59,360 | 01:57:01,360 | 為什麼我們還是要跟這些 |
| 01:57:01,360 | 01:57:03,360 | 利害關係的人做一些討論 |
| 01:57:03,360 | 01:57:05,360 | 原則上來講的話 |
| 01:57:05,360 | 01:57:07,360 | 的確你剛才提到的備援的部分 |
| 01:57:07,360 | 01:57:09,360 | 跟我們這個 |
| 01:57:09,360 | 01:57:11,360 | 自備電力是有一點點差異 |
| 01:57:11,360 | 01:57:13,360 | 不是有一點很大的差異 |
| 01:57:13,360 | 01:57:15,360 | 所以呢 |
| 01:57:15,360 | 01:57:17,360 | 基於我們的緊急備援電力裝置的 |
| 01:57:17,360 | 01:57:19,360 | 裝置容量會記錄我們自備的電力 |
| 01:57:19,360 | 01:57:21,360 | 容量用途不是不同的 |
| 01:57:21,360 | 01:57:23,360 | 自備電力是你經常性持續性的 |
| 01:57:23,360 | 01:57:25,360 | 滿足你自己常態性的 |
| 01:57:25,360 | 01:57:27,360 | 需求 舉例來講 |
| 01:57:27,360 | 01:57:29,360 | 我考過上次之前考過農業部長 |
| 01:57:29,360 | 01:57:31,360 | 燃料電子它到底是儲能還是發電裝置 |
| 01:57:33,090 | 01:57:35,090 | 燃料電子是發電式 |
| 01:57:35,090 | 01:57:37,090 | 所以很多人看到電池以為它是儲能 |
| 01:57:37,090 | 01:57:39,090 | 它是發電裝置 |
| 01:57:39,090 | 01:57:41,090 | 當然相較於柴油的備援電力 |
| 01:57:41,090 | 01:57:43,090 | 它有它的不同的 |
| 01:57:43,260 | 01:57:45,260 | 一個趨勢 |
| 01:57:45,260 | 01:57:47,260 | 選項 那麼它相較於鋰電池的儲能 |
| 01:57:47,260 | 01:57:49,260 | 它也有它不同的優勢 |
| 01:57:49,260 | 01:57:51,260 | 簡單講柴電呢 |
| 01:57:51,260 | 01:57:53,260 | 因為儲存高揮發性的燃料 |
| 01:57:53,260 | 01:57:55,260 | 容有火警的危險 |
| 01:57:55,260 | 01:57:57,260 | 儲能一般的鋰電有高溫的風險 |
| 01:57:57,260 | 01:57:59,260 | 燃料電子它相對的 |
| 01:57:59,260 | 01:58:01,260 | 它沒有柴油發電的噪音 |
| 01:58:01,260 | 01:58:03,260 | 它沒有空污 |
| 01:58:03,260 | 01:58:05,260 | 它也沒有鋰電池的那樣的高溫自然的情況 |
| 01:58:05,260 | 01:58:07,260 | 這種情況之下 |
| 01:58:07,260 | 01:58:09,260 | 但是目前我們對於緊急備援 |
| 01:58:09,260 | 01:58:11,260 | 的柴油發電或者是說 |
| 01:58:11,260 | 01:58:13,260 | 鋰電池的儲能 |
| 01:58:13,260 | 01:58:15,260 | 我們有在建築的相關法規上 |
| 01:58:15,260 | 01:58:17,260 | 有相關的配套是不是這樣 |
| 01:58:17,260 | 01:58:19,260 | 舉例來講我舉例 |
| 01:58:19,260 | 01:58:21,260 | 按照目前我們的電業相關規定 |
| 01:58:21,260 | 01:58:23,260 | 你的緊急備援的柴油發電必須設在一樓 |
| 01:58:24,270 | 01:58:26,270 | 你不能放在地下室也不能放在高樓層 |
| 01:58:26,270 | 01:58:28,270 | 安太醫院又是犯了這個錯誤 |
| 01:58:28,980 | 01:58:30,980 | 請問一下燃料電子 |
| 01:58:31,360 | 01:58:33,360 | 不能放在地下室 |
| 01:58:32,730 | 01:58:34,730 | 可不可以放在高樓層 |
| 01:58:34,530 | 01:58:36,530 | 有沒有去做過相關的研究 |
| 01:58:36,610 | 01:58:38,610 | 他好像沒有這樣的限制 |
| 01:58:38,610 | 01:58:40,610 | 他都沒有限制 |
| 01:58:41,310 | 01:58:43,310 | 沒有好像沒有限制 |
| 01:58:43,310 | 01:58:45,310 | 但是他雖然沒有限制但是他有一個條件的限制 |
| 01:58:45,310 | 01:58:47,310 | 什麼事情 |
| 01:58:47,170 | 01:58:49,170 | 他要拉天然氣管 |
| 01:58:49,170 | 01:58:51,170 | 對他需要輸氣管 |
| 01:58:51,170 | 01:58:53,170 | 所以說如果未來的用戶 |
| 01:58:53,170 | 01:58:55,170 | 他沒有輸氣管的預先配置 |
| 01:58:55,170 | 01:58:57,170 | 他想要選擇這個燃料電子 |
| 01:58:57,170 | 01:58:59,170 | 來做為儲能也好做為發電也好 |
| 01:58:59,170 | 01:59:01,170 | 免受於柴油發電的這些 |
| 01:59:01,170 | 01:59:03,170 | 不方便免受於鋰電儲能的不方便 |
| 01:59:03,170 | 01:59:05,170 | 他卻因為原來的規劃沒有 |
| 01:59:05,170 | 01:59:07,170 | 所以他不能做是不是這樣子 |
| 01:59:09,930 | 01:59:11,930 | 經濟部有沒有跟你們相關的部會 |
| 01:59:11,930 | 01:59:13,930 | 去做研究 |
| 01:59:15,500 | 01:59:17,500 | 就是天然氣管線的這個 |
| 01:59:17,500 | 01:59:19,500 | 是的天然氣管線的規則管 |
| 01:59:20,250 | 01:59:22,250 | 經濟部 |
| 01:59:21,970 | 01:59:23,970 | 也是 |
| 01:59:38,120 | 01:59:40,120 | 沒有沒有 |
| 01:59:41,390 | 01:59:43,390 | 綠電獎金那是另外 |
| 01:59:43,390 | 01:59:45,390 | 好 |
| 01:59:45,390 | 01:59:47,390 | 所以我們了解未來要符合世界潮流趨勢 |
| 01:59:47,390 | 01:59:49,390 | 我們大電力用戶鼓勵他用綠電 |
| 01:59:49,390 | 01:59:51,390 | 但是 |
| 01:59:51,390 | 01:59:53,390 | 燃料電子他用的是低碳電力 |
| 01:59:53,390 | 01:59:55,390 | 那如果他這樣碳捕捉 |
| 01:59:55,390 | 01:59:57,390 | 他有沒有在未來我們能源使用上 |
| 01:59:57,390 | 01:59:59,390 | 給予一些不同於 |
| 01:59:59,390 | 02:00:01,390 | 綠電的優惠 |
| 02:00:01,390 | 02:00:03,390 | 書長你來說明一下 |
| 02:00:03,230 | 02:00:05,230 | 他如果LNG有加上碳捕捉的話 |
| 02:00:05,230 | 02:00:07,230 | 基本上他就是無碳的 |
| 02:00:07,230 | 02:00:09,230 | 我們可以把他列入為低碳的 |
| 02:00:09,230 | 02:00:11,230 | 對對對 |
| 02:00:11,230 | 02:00:13,230 | 所以未來如果能源署有制定 |
| 02:00:13,230 | 02:00:15,230 | 我們事業單位他使用的 |
| 02:00:15,230 | 02:00:17,230 | 綠電的獎勵 |
| 02:00:17,230 | 02:00:19,230 | 那麼純綠電大家會想到是氫能 |
| 02:00:19,230 | 02:00:21,230 | 光電風電 |
| 02:00:21,230 | 02:00:23,230 | 但是呢使用LNG的 |
| 02:00:23,230 | 02:00:25,230 | 燃料電池他是 |
| 02:00:25,230 | 02:00:27,230 | 低碳電力未來是不是也會給他 |
| 02:00:27,230 | 02:00:29,230 | 雖然不像純綠電那麼高的 |
| 02:00:29,230 | 02:00:31,230 | 優惠也會給他一定的優惠會這樣考慮嗎 |
| 02:00:32,440 | 02:00:34,440 | 我們會試同啊 |
| 02:00:34,440 | 02:00:36,440 | 他如果說他有碳捕捉 |
| 02:00:36,440 | 02:00:38,440 | 把產生的碳捕捉下來 |
| 02:00:38,440 | 02:00:40,440 | 我們會試同他是 |
| 02:00:40,440 | 02:00:42,440 | 綠電是一樣的 |
| 02:00:42,440 | 02:00:44,440 | 是可以這樣子好那我們來看一看 |
| 02:00:44,440 | 02:00:46,440 | 現在最夯的就是AI啦 |
| 02:00:46,440 | 02:00:48,440 | 我們不只在台灣我到其他國家去訪問 |
| 02:00:48,440 | 02:00:50,440 | 他們也在討論AI |
| 02:00:50,440 | 02:00:52,440 | 這個算力中心可以放在哪裡 |
| 02:00:52,440 | 02:00:54,440 | 到處要搶電 |
| 02:00:54,440 | 02:00:56,440 | 事實上我之前有跟我們書長 |
| 02:00:56,440 | 02:00:58,440 | 還有我們的原管局請教了 |
| 02:00:58,440 | 02:01:00,440 | 設在高雄還是設在屏東 |
| 02:01:00,440 | 02:01:02,440 | 這個算力中心他第一個考量是什麼 |
| 02:01:02,440 | 02:01:04,440 | 電力供應 |
| 02:01:03,670 | 02:01:05,670 | 所以這種情況之下 |
| 02:01:05,670 | 02:01:07,670 | 這些算力中心可以設置在哪裡 |
| 02:01:07,670 | 02:01:09,670 | 你們會不會去做一些法規的盤點 |
| 02:01:11,110 | 02:01:13,110 | 會啊 |
| 02:01:13,110 | 02:01:15,110 | 最後主席站起來了 |
| 02:01:15,110 | 02:01:17,110 | 所以我希望我們部長跟署長 |
| 02:01:17,110 | 02:01:19,110 | 因應我們這次能管法的修法 |
| 02:01:19,110 | 02:01:21,110 | 你們要清楚的闡明我們自備發電的 |
| 02:01:21,110 | 02:01:23,110 | 政策用意是什麼 |
| 02:01:23,110 | 02:01:25,110 | 我們未來緊急備援的裝置選項 |
| 02:01:25,110 | 02:01:27,110 | 可以做什麼調整 |
| 02:01:27,110 | 02:01:29,110 | 以及相關的法規配套 |
| 02:01:29,110 | 02:01:31,110 | 先去盤點因為有的涉及公安 |
| 02:01:31,110 | 02:01:33,110 | 有的涉及消防有的涉及都計 |
| 02:01:33,110 | 02:01:35,110 | 甚至相關的配置 |
| 02:01:35,110 | 02:01:37,110 | 像天然氣管線 |
| 02:01:37,110 | 02:01:39,110 | 要怎麼樣趕快的去配屬 |
| 02:01:39,110 | 02:01:41,110 | 所以說我們未來AI算力中心 |
| 02:01:41,110 | 02:01:43,110 | 可以放在哪裡是不是請經濟部 |
| 02:01:43,110 | 02:01:45,110 | 做一個全盤的 |
| 02:01:45,110 | 02:01:47,110 | 評估之後有一個明確的 |
| 02:01:47,110 | 02:01:49,110 | 跟社會訴求不是只是在 |
| 02:01:49,110 | 02:01:51,110 | 能源管理法當中做一些局部的 |
| 02:01:51,110 | 02:01:53,110 | 修改讓大家只見其數 |
| 02:01:53,110 | 02:01:55,110 | 不見其靈可以嗎 |
| 02:01:55,110 | 02:01:57,110 | 謝謝 |
| 02:01:56,950 | 02:01:58,950 | 好謝謝中央立委精彩的諮詢 |
| 02:01:58,950 | 02:02:00,950 | 回座 |
| 02:02:00,950 | 02:02:02,950 | 下一位許中信許中信許永元不在 |
| 02:02:02,950 | 02:02:04,950 | 洪孟凱洪孟凱洪孟凱不在 |
| 02:02:04,950 | 02:02:06,950 | 林切奇林切奇林切奇不在 |
| 02:02:06,950 | 02:02:08,950 | 蘇星權蘇星權孫永元不在 |
| 02:02:08,950 | 02:02:10,950 | 林思敏林思敏不在楊喬寅楊喬寅 |
| 02:02:10,850 | 02:02:12,850 | 楊喬寅不在 |
| 02:02:12,930 | 02:02:14,930 | 請楊憲委員諮詢 |
| 02:02:23,090 | 02:02:25,090 | 謝謝主席楊全發言 |
| 02:02:25,090 | 02:02:27,090 | 邀請部長經濟部國務長 |
| 02:02:32,540 | 02:02:34,540 | 楊委員早安 |
| 02:02:45,330 | 02:02:47,330 | 主席 |
| 02:02:47,330 | 02:02:49,330 | 主席 |
| 02:02:49,330 | 02:02:51,330 | 主席 |
| 02:02:51,330 | 02:02:53,330 | 主席 |
| 02:02:53,330 | 02:02:55,330 | 主席 |
| 02:02:55,330 | 02:02:57,330 | 主席 |
| 02:02:57,330 | 02:02:59,330 | 主席 |
| 02:02:59,330 | 02:03:01,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:01,330 | 02:03:03,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:03,330 | 02:03:05,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:05,330 | 02:03:07,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:07,330 | 02:03:09,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:09,330 | 02:03:11,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:11,330 | 02:03:13,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:13,330 | 02:03:15,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:15,330 | 02:03:17,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:17,330 | 02:03:19,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:19,330 | 02:03:21,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:21,330 | 02:03:23,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:23,330 | 02:03:25,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:25,330 | 02:03:27,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:27,330 | 02:03:29,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:29,330 | 02:03:31,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:31,330 | 02:03:33,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:33,330 | 02:03:35,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:35,330 | 02:03:37,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:37,330 | 02:03:39,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:39,330 | 02:03:41,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:41,330 | 02:03:43,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:43,330 | 02:03:45,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:45,330 | 02:03:47,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:47,330 | 02:03:49,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:49,330 | 02:03:51,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:51,330 | 02:03:53,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:53,330 | 02:03:55,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:55,330 | 02:03:57,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:57,330 | 02:03:59,330 | 主席 |
| 02:03:59,330 | 02:04:01,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:01,330 | 02:04:03,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:03,330 | 02:04:05,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:05,330 | 02:04:07,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:07,330 | 02:04:09,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:09,330 | 02:04:11,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:11,330 | 02:04:13,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:13,330 | 02:04:15,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:15,330 | 02:04:17,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:17,330 | 02:04:19,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:19,330 | 02:04:21,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:21,330 | 02:04:23,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:23,330 | 02:04:25,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:25,330 | 02:04:27,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:27,330 | 02:04:29,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:29,330 | 02:04:31,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:31,330 | 02:04:33,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:33,330 | 02:04:35,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:35,330 | 02:04:37,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:37,330 | 02:04:39,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:39,330 | 02:04:41,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:41,330 | 02:04:43,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:43,330 | 02:04:45,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:45,330 | 02:04:47,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:47,330 | 02:04:49,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:49,330 | 02:04:51,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:51,330 | 02:04:53,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:53,330 | 02:04:55,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:55,330 | 02:04:57,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:57,330 | 02:04:59,330 | 主席 |
| 02:04:59,330 | 02:05:01,330 | 主席 |
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| 02:07:24,870 | 02:07:26,870 | 主席 |
| 02:07:26,870 | 02:07:27,870 | 產發署 |
| 02:07:27,870 | 02:07:30,870 | 我再跟你討論一件事情 |
| 02:07:30,870 | 02:07:33,870 | 因為產業競爭力的輔導團 |
| 02:07:33,870 | 02:07:34,870 | 既然我們在電力方面 |
| 02:07:34,870 | 02:07:36,870 | 我們也一直在努力 |
| 02:07:36,870 | 02:07:38,870 | 但是我們看到輔導團的成果 |
| 02:07:38,870 | 02:07:39,870 | 你們都告訴我們 |
| 02:07:39,870 | 02:07:41,870 | 輔導了9000多家 |
| 02:07:41,870 | 02:07:45,870 | 9249家要來企業要導入AI |
| 02:07:45,870 | 02:07:48,870 | 也宣示說AI是我們台灣產業裡頭 |
| 02:07:48,870 | 02:07:50,870 | 非常重要的共同能力 |
| 02:07:50,870 | 02:07:52,870 | 我們希望帶動整個 |
| 02:07:52,870 | 02:07:54,870 | 百工百業的加速轉型 |
| 02:07:54,870 | 02:07:56,870 | 那要百工百業的加速轉型 |
| 02:07:56,870 | 02:07:59,870 | 甚至我上次特別跟部長討論的 |
| 02:07:59,870 | 02:08:04,870 | 唯中小明年要來執行的怎麼樣 |
| 02:08:04,870 | 02:08:07,870 | 讓我們八成的這些唯中小能夠跟 |
| 02:08:07,870 | 02:08:10,870 | 不管是AI不管半導體 |
| 02:08:10,870 | 02:08:12,870 | 可以串聯起來 |
| 02:08:12,870 | 02:08:14,870 | 這才是真正台灣產業的 |
| 02:08:14,870 | 02:08:17,870 | 一個大提升跟大贏家 |
| 02:08:17,870 | 02:08:19,870 | 就非常的重要 |
| 02:08:19,870 | 02:08:21,870 | 但是我們又看到您的白皮書 |
| 02:08:21,870 | 02:08:23,870 | 2025年中小企業的這個白皮書 |
| 02:08:23,870 | 02:08:24,870 | 白皮書你顯示 |
| 02:08:24,870 | 02:08:27,870 | 高達93.1%的中小企業 |
| 02:08:27,870 | 02:08:31,870 | 他表示我沒有規劃要招攬AI的人才 |
| 02:08:31,870 | 02:08:32,870 | 你不僅如此 |
| 02:08:32,870 | 02:08:34,870 | 你在你經濟部自己最新的 |
| 02:08:34,870 | 02:08:38,870 | 工廠校正跟營利的調查當中 |
| 02:08:38,870 | 02:08:41,870 | 你也指出了你自己指出 |
| 02:08:41,870 | 02:08:44,870 | AI帶動的成長主要集中在 |
| 02:08:44,870 | 02:08:46,870 | 資訊電子產業 |
| 02:08:46,870 | 02:08:50,870 | 全國的勞動員工總共有 |
| 02:08:50,870 | 02:08:55,870 | 總共有856.7萬名的僱員當中 |
| 02:08:55,870 | 02:08:58,870 | 只有85萬人受惠 |
| 02:08:58,870 | 02:09:00,870 | 換句話說到目前為止 |
| 02:09:00,870 | 02:09:03,870 | 部長到目前為止九成的勞工 |
| 02:09:03,870 | 02:09:08,870 | 他感受不到AI的帶來的經濟紅利 |
| 02:09:08,870 | 02:09:10,870 | 所以本席就覺得很奇怪 |
| 02:09:10,870 | 02:09:11,870 | 你們一邊告訴我們 |
| 02:09:11,870 | 02:09:13,870 | 你有九千多家了 |
| 02:09:13,870 | 02:09:15,870 | 但是你自己的中小企業 |
| 02:09:15,870 | 02:09:17,870 | 白皮書已經經濟部的 |
| 02:09:17,870 | 02:09:21,870 | 工廠的校正資料裡頭 |
| 02:09:22,850 | 02:09:26,850 | 又是葡萄一層的員工以及企業 |
| 02:09:26,850 | 02:09:28,850 | 他們願意要這麼做 |
| 02:09:28,850 | 02:09:30,850 | 其中的原因到底出在哪裡 |
| 02:09:30,850 | 02:09:31,850 | 斷點在哪裡 |
| 02:09:31,850 | 02:09:32,850 | 請教部長 |
| 02:09:32,850 | 02:09:33,850 | 是 報告委員 |
| 02:09:33,850 | 02:09:36,850 | 因為這個應該是有一點time lag |
| 02:09:36,850 | 02:09:39,850 | 就是原先那個調查是2025年 |
| 02:09:39,850 | 02:09:42,850 | 那調查2025年之前的一些相關的資料 |
| 02:09:42,850 | 02:09:44,850 | 然後做一個彙整 |
| 02:09:44,850 | 02:09:45,850 | 那我們努力是 |
| 02:09:46,660 | 02:09:47,660 | 我們會繼續努力 |
| 02:09:47,660 | 02:09:48,660 | 積極的努力 |
| 02:09:48,660 | 02:09:50,660 | 讓更多的人可以受惠 |
| 02:09:50,660 | 02:09:51,660 | 那基本上來講 |
| 02:09:51,660 | 02:09:53,660 | 如果是以微型企業的話 |
| 02:09:53,660 | 02:09:55,660 | 他要養一個AI人才 |
| 02:09:55,660 | 02:09:56,660 | 大概也是不太可能 |
| 02:09:56,660 | 02:09:58,660 | 但是我們希望讓他們可以 |
| 02:09:59,940 | 02:10:01,940 | 運用AI的工具 |
| 02:10:01,940 | 02:10:02,940 | 他們可以知道 |
| 02:10:02,940 | 02:10:07,940 | 怎麼改善他們來電的客群人數 |
| 02:10:07,940 | 02:10:09,940 | 或者是等等一些情況 |
| 02:10:09,940 | 02:10:12,940 | 或者是他的設備 |
| 02:10:12,940 | 02:10:14,940 | 可以導入一些AI的設備 |
| 02:10:14,940 | 02:10:16,940 | 你這邊回答沒有針對本席的提問 |
| 02:10:16,940 | 02:10:19,940 | 因為你在2025年調查之前 |
| 02:10:19,940 | 02:10:22,940 | 你今天就是因為有九千多家 |
| 02:10:22,940 | 02:10:25,940 | 九千兩百四十九家的中小企業 |
| 02:10:25,940 | 02:10:27,940 | 接受你們輔導團的輔導 |
| 02:10:27,940 | 02:10:30,940 | 輔導之後你的結果是如此 |
| 02:10:30,940 | 02:10:31,940 | 你要針對問題 |
| 02:10:31,940 | 02:10:33,940 | 你不是只有美化 |
| 02:10:33,940 | 02:10:35,940 | 這個沒有辦法解決問題 |
| 02:10:35,940 | 02:10:37,940 | 你剛剛也特別說了 |
| 02:10:37,940 | 02:10:39,940 | 中小企業如果各自要去轉型 |
| 02:10:39,940 | 02:10:42,940 | 你的嘴巴當中講出來是有困難的 |
| 02:10:42,940 | 02:10:45,940 | 這有困難就是我們要點出的問題點 |
| 02:10:45,940 | 02:10:47,940 | 政府要怎麼協助他 |
| 02:10:47,940 | 02:10:50,940 | 你的輔導團九千多家的成果 |
| 02:10:50,940 | 02:10:52,940 | 是九成沒有得到這個紅利 |
| 02:10:52,940 | 02:10:54,940 | 那接下來要怎麼樣去協助 |
| 02:10:54,940 | 02:10:55,940 | 這個中小企業產業 |
| 02:10:55,940 | 02:10:59,940 | 就是輔導團是從去年的10月開始 |
| 02:10:59,940 | 02:11:02,940 | 那我們會做一個最新的統計 |
| 02:11:02,940 | 02:11:04,940 | 讓這個委員知道說 |
| 02:11:04,940 | 02:11:06,940 | 這個輔導團他實質是一個效益 |
| 02:11:06,940 | 02:11:07,940 | 第一個你做最新的統計 |
| 02:11:07,940 | 02:11:08,940 | 本席也認可 |
| 02:11:08,940 | 02:11:10,940 | 但是在統計出來 |
| 02:11:10,940 | 02:11:13,940 | 我們要怎麼樣應對去解決那個問題 |
| 02:11:13,940 | 02:11:15,940 | 陳鋒你嘴巴說的 |
| 02:11:15,940 | 02:11:19,940 | 他自己各自要去轉回AI是有困難 |
| 02:11:19,940 | 02:11:20,940 | 政府的立場 |
| 02:11:20,940 | 02:11:22,940 | 政府的責任在哪裡 |
| 02:11:22,940 | 02:11:23,940 | 要怎麼去輔導 |
| 02:11:23,940 | 02:11:26,940 | 其實所有的預算都是人民的納稅錢 |
| 02:11:26,940 | 02:11:29,940 | 這個務必一定要去做清楚 |
| 02:11:29,940 | 02:11:32,940 | 輔導真正落實我們中小企業的 |
| 02:11:32,940 | 02:11:34,940 | 輔助機制出來 |
| 02:11:34,940 | 02:11:35,940 | 對不對 |
| 02:11:35,940 | 02:11:37,940 | 那你多久時間可以去統計出來 |
| 02:11:39,340 | 02:11:40,340 | 一個月可以嗎 |
| 02:11:40,340 | 02:11:42,340 | 怎麼要這麼久呢 |
| 02:11:42,340 | 02:11:43,340 | 你就已經陷入了 |
| 02:11:43,340 | 02:11:45,340 | 因為你只能做普遍性的調查 |
| 02:11:45,340 | 02:11:47,340 | 因為如果針對九千多家 |
| 02:11:47,340 | 02:11:50,340 | 一個月將你的最新資訊拿出來 |
| 02:11:50,340 | 02:11:52,340 | 應用方案你要拿出來 |
| 02:11:52,340 | 02:11:54,340 | 協助我們的中小企業 |
| 02:11:54,340 | 02:11:56,340 | 謝謝楊承斌委員時間掌握非常好 |
| 02:11:59,370 | 02:12:00,370 | 謝謝 |
| 02:12:01,430 | 02:12:05,430 | 謝謝 |
| 02:12:08,160 | 02:12:11,160 | 好 登記發言文除不在場之外區域區域發言完畢 |
| 02:12:11,160 | 02:12:12,160 | 我們訊帶結束 |
| 02:12:13,560 | 02:12:15,560 | 由委員謝一鳳、傅崑錡 |
| 02:12:15,560 | 02:12:18,560 | 參與所提書面質詢我們列入紀錄 |
| 02:12:18,560 | 02:12:20,560 | 再加一個張家俊 |
| 02:12:21,340 | 02:12:23,340 | 所提書面質詢列入紀錄 |
| 02:12:23,340 | 02:12:25,340 | 書面質詢及未解答的部分請相關單位 |
| 02:12:25,340 | 02:12:27,340 | 一週內書面答复並複製本會 |
| 02:12:27,340 | 02:12:29,340 | 委員另有要求其間者重新鎖定 |
| 02:12:29,340 | 02:12:30,340 | 好 |
| 02:12:30,340 | 02:12:34,340 | 本日討論事項所列一成能源管理法部分條文 |
| 02:12:34,340 | 02:12:36,340 | 修正草案 |
| 02:12:36,340 | 02:12:37,340 | 詢答完畢 |
| 02:12:37,340 | 02:12:40,340 | 我們定期繼續進行審查 |
| 02:12:40,340 | 02:12:41,340 | 大家辛苦了 |
| 02:12:42,480 | 02:12:43,480 | 今天散會 |
| 02:12:56,780 | 02:12:57,780 | 再見 |
| 02:12:57,620 | 02:12:59,620 | 11點過去了 |