| IVOD_ID |
17517 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17517 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-22-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-11T08:33:53+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-11T16:14:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
07:40:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373dd4144b3221bdf2eecf617752290a1f476dbd1a1f1ae50216a0f05c533d9661f35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查
(一) 委員柯志恩等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。
(二) 委員柯志恩等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 委員吳沛憶等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。
(四) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第二十條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查
(一) 委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(二) 委員許宇甄等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 國民黨黨團擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(四) 委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(五) 委員羅明才等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(六) 委員葛如鈞等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(七) 委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(八) 委員羅智強等17人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(九) 委員賴士葆等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(十) 委員林倩綺等23人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(十一) 委員葉元之等19人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(十二) 委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(十三) 委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等21人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(十四) 委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(十五) 委員張雅琳等18人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(十六) 委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(十七) 委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「高級中等教育法第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
三、繼續審查
(一) 委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
(二) 委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案
四、審查
(一) 委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
(二) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 委員葉元之等18人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
(四) 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
(五) 委員許宇甄等19人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
(六) 委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。
……(因系統字數上限，詳參議事日程)） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:33:53 - 16:14:00 |
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報告委員會現在出席委員已駐法定人數現在開會首先進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1668.854 |
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1692.151 |
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立法院第十一屆第五會期教育及文化委員會第十四次全體委員會議事錄時間中華民國一五年六月十日下午二十三十分至五十三十分地點本院清新樓101會議室出席委員蔡春綢委員等十三人列席委員林倩琦委員等三人列席人員運動部部長李陽率統有關人員主席羅昭吉委員庭委報告事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1693.328 |
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1706.746 |
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宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定討論事項繼續審查委員羅廷偉等21人拟據電子競技運動發展基本法草案等兩案本日會議由委員林怡謹等12人提出質詢 |
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1708.368 |
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1709.748 |
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請問各位委員上次會議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏 |
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1739.414 |
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1752.701 |
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好 意思錄確定本日會議議程是審查委員柯志仁18人等擬具可以啊都可以 |
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1762.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1790.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好 謝謝主席我們今天要先程序發言關於召委不審預算 只辦考察這件事情我們要提出嚴正的抗議我們手上有一個清單是關於羅廷偉召委他必須負責的部會相關總預算到目前為止都沒有進行實質的審查那我們看到除了考察之外呢包含今天排的相關法案的議程其中很多民進黨委員的版本都還在覆議期當中那也都沒有因此也都沒有被放進來我們要表達沉重的抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1791.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1811.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那我想跟大家報告一下目前羅廷維委員所必須負責的部會預算有哪些呢第一個文化部及所屬單位預算還有運動部所屬單位的預算當然文化部底下還有表役中心等等這些那最後還有國家太空中心國家災害防災科技中心還有國安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1813.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1837.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
还有和安会等等这些然后甚至国家运动产业发展中心国家运动训练中心还有相关跟运动有关也就是文化部运动部和安会还有故宫这些等等该是负责罗廷文委员的部分由他负责都还没有进行审查那我不知道之前刻意提了言会说要好好审查预算好好处理事情但是为什么到现在为止我们看从昨天的电竞法 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1838.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1853.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
相關一整天的時間然後到今天相關的法案民進黨委員的版本也都因為在復一期當中沒有辦法被送進來實質審查那我要說一個負責任專任的召委所必須處理的當然是公平的對待每一個委員的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1854.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1879.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
應該都被照顧在相關的排程當中此外總預算的部分現在已經6月中了距離行政院把總預算送進立法院來已經快要300天了而這麼長的時間不審總預算到底要做什麼所以我們今天雖然沒有辦法主張變更議程但是在程序發言上我們要再次拜託公開拜託召委把您所負責相關部會的總預算開始進行實質審查以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1883.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1906.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好回應一下那個培育委員可能委員沒有注意到昨天會議是議事錄已經確定我們就是6月11收見相關大家的提案所以目前都在進行當中我們有自己的期程也希望委員能夠尊重那至於不附議同意書我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1908.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1924.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
可能委員也要麻煩大家有個默契因為上次葛如君委員簽相關的法案的時候貴黨也不願意簽不附一同一書所以我想將心比心那我們持續接下來的會議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1928.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1954.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本會議議程是審查委員柯志恩等18人擬據高級中等教育法第20條條文修正委員王洪輝等24人擬據高級中等教育法第58條條文修正委員柯志恩等16人擬據大學法第35條條文修正委員柯志恩等16人擬據專科學校法第44條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1955.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1981.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
委員范雲等16人擬拒學校公參法等39案委員郭玉琴吳立華吳佩奕張雅玲陳培宇吳思瑤等提案應無不附議同意書故不予審查首先介紹在場的委員陳培宇委員陳秀寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1986.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2010.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
林倩琦委員羅志強委員柯志恩委員接著介紹與會的官員教育部常務次長朱俊彰財政部副稅屬專務委員吳秀琳國防部人事參謀次長是助理次長薛伯陽 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2013.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2036.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
衛生福利部及社會救助及社公司檢證視察王彥琴法務部參事王南君農業部農糧署副署長黃昭興環境部化學物質管理署組長林松錦行政院足計總處公務預算處專務委員王淺凱 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2045.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2059.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
其餘列席的機關代表請參閱名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄現在進行提案說明請問有委員要提案說明嗎好有請林倩琦委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2070.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2091.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好 謝謝我們主席羅昭偉那本席今天提出的這個高級中等教育法第58條還有專科學校法第44條的修正草案那麼主要的目的是在減輕學生以及家庭就業的這個負擔來提升教育投資的可負擔性讓青年不會因為經濟的因素而背負過重的這個債務 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2093.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2120.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那麼現行的制度雖然提供了就學協助學生就學貸款來協助學生來完成學業只是貸款的利息還是有學生在負擔那麼實際上有學生也因為無力償還就學貸款而遭到金融機構申請強制執行那麼甚至在投入職場後就面臨薪資遭扣押的困境那麼相關的調查呢親人負債的來源當中呢學貸更是比例很高的一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2120.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2136.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那麼顯示這中間許多年輕人已經因為這樣子的一個壓力才產生一些經濟的困境那另外一方面呢政府的就學貸款、利息補貼支出由民國96年的41億元來降至113年的20餘億元那麼升遲的人數也大幅減少那麼整個財政負擔看起來已經比較趨緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2143.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2168.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那麼政府已經有進一步強化支持措施的空間所以本案在明訂學生就學貸款利息由教育部來編列預算全額補助來降低青年就學跟畢業後的還款壓力讓學生能夠更專注在學習與職能的發展那這樣也能夠展現國家對教育投資跟青年發展的支持那麼以上的說明請各位委員來支持 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2173.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2187.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有請下一位羅志祥委員主席各位委員還有各位練習的官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2188.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2200.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那麼這次修正我們的高級中學教育法第58條專科學校法第44條大學法第35條那我們希望有主管機關來編列預算負擔學貸的利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2204.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2221.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那現在申請學貸的在學生絕大部分是由政府補貼在學期間學貸利息畢業後才開始複習但我們希望是能夠畢業後的利息也由政府來負擔讓高出社會的年輕人 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2223.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2241.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
可以免於因為在學期間 求學期間他所累積的利息然後跟物價飛漲的壓力讓我們的年輕人一出社會就面臨過度沉重的負擔那麼在本席的修法版本當中也有特別指出 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2242.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2254.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
政府補助家庭所得五等分最低20%的經濟弱勢大專院校學生可免納學費這些在在都是希望能夠來去實現賴清德總統自己講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2257.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2275.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
用國家的力量投資下一代讓每個孩子都擁有公平發展的機會讓孩子們出社會時都能夠輕裝上陣讓年輕人更輕盈邁向人生新階段勇敢追逐夢想所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2276.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2299.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
如果我們的政府希望讓我們的年輕人現在真的很辛苦的年輕人可以輕裝上陣然後面對社會非常大的挑戰跟壓力的話那我想今天我們所推動的修法工作就非常的重要那我也要特別提出來就是因為少子化申請學代人數逐年下降那根據教育部統計103 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2302.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2313.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
年的懸念度大概是57萬人次生帶那10年後113年度懸念度只剩下33萬人次生帶金額從233億元減少到114億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2318.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2345.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那這相對也使得政府其實有更多的經費可以用來放寬學貸的措施賴總統也提出要將學貸利率從1.775%降為0.775%那教育部預估這降1%大概是每年投入15億的預算所以如果我們今天能夠再更進一步的話把它降到0其實也不會再超過多降1% |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2346.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2363.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那因此增加預算其實並不會超過15億那這是為什麼我們今天希望能夠提出來的一個修法的重心就是希望站在年輕人的這個視角來看看他們所面臨的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2364.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2376.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那作為政府的單位應該要成為年輕人最大的助力跟最強的後盾所以也希望我們今天的修法能夠順利的通過 以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2395.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2419.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
主席 各位同仁本期這次提出大學法第35條條文的修正草案高級中等教育法第58條以及專科學校法第44條的條文修正草案三案其修核心的目的只有一個就是要透過本次修法使之減輕我國青年學子負擔落實我國教育平權與青年發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2420.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2434.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這次的提案有兩個主要的訴求一是讓就讀大學生高中職以及專科的學生他們的就學貸款利息應由政府編列預算全額補助再來就是本金貪還英資學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2435.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2464.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
学业完成服完兵役等满两年的次日起开始计算就学贷款的制度是为了协助学生接受教育落实教育平权所制定的重要措施它本来就是要让所有不分出生的学子都能够公平的享有受教权然而检视现行的制度发现对于正在就学中的学子或者刚踏入社会的年轻人来说就学贷款已经变成他们一套社会的沉重负担 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2465.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2482.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
因為一出上門 在還沒有站穩腳步之前我就要開始面對房租 伙食費 通勤費 水電費等排山倒海而來的經濟壓力而當前的年輕人在畢業後面臨著極為沉重的生活成本跟就業初期的低薪待遇的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2483.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2506.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
再加上近年來大環境的惡化國內的物價持續的攀升通膨的壓力不斷的增加也讓我們的親親學子苦不堪言看不到希望看不到未來賴清德總統在上個月27號有針對少子化的問題召開國安高層會議並發布台灣人口對策新戰略代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2506.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2527.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
政府终于正式少子化问题是国家安全层级的危机也知道学贷的压力是其中一个来源但是政府召开国安会议后对于学贷的减压只是利息减1%斩言加一年这部分我们认为是杯水车薪远远不够的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2528.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2549.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
政府必須展現破釜沉舟的決心,唯有實質的免除利息延長寬限期,學貸制度才能真正的發揮教育平權的精神希望今天大家一起來共同支持這個修法的通過,謝謝好,我們請羅廷維委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2556.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2582.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好今天審查高級中等教育法大學法專科學校法我們營養午餐法還有最重要的就是所有學生團體一直不斷在關心的尤其是學代三法我想我必須要跟大家說明這個禮拜一其實也有排考察但不是我排的我希望大家能夠將心比心各個政黨在排期程的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2583.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2611.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
都是雙套標準的話我覺得這個不太好那我想執政黨有自己的執政壓力希望預算能夠趕快通過在野黨有自己的騎乘但執政黨只完成了自己預算的審核之後也沒有去幫忙處理相對應的民生問題所以許多的學生團體不斷的來拜訪拜託學代的壓力學生的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2612.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2637.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我們透過跟學生團體不斷的溝通我們相信現在整個青年生活的成本增加我們希望幫忙能夠降低生活的負擔這都是有可能影響到日後他們對於生活上遇到困難挑戰甚至是未來成家立業 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2639.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2654.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
都有可能影響到整個生活的品質導致後續可能沒有辦法更好的進入職場更好的進入家庭也會影響到我們的出生率0到18歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2656.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2677.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
給予每個月五千元真的夠嗎所以我們現在面對問題解決問題我也很感謝學生團體不斷的在拜訪國民黨許多的委員所以今天也有許多的委員在很早之前就已經先提案我們趕緊進入來排案來做審查來幫學生來解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2679.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2700.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
所以我们希望明定由主管机关编列预算全额负担就学贷款利息并增订经济弱势学生免缴学费之规定甚至同学也在反映在申请学贷还没有下来通过的这个过程当中能不能给予帮助 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2701.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2715.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
能不能夠落實整個學校關心關懷的一個制度這個都是我們現在要關心我們要來努力的所以也希望大家能夠共同來關注學生就業的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2716.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2741.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
之外還有就學過程所增加的這些成本所以今天特別排審希望大家一起來為這些學生來努力我想也要再次的拜託我們所有期程排列都有自己的進度我們尊重所有委員的建議但也希望委員能夠給予我們支持這次法案的排審有其必要性謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2755.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2764.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
好 提案說明完畢本會議材一併報告綜合詢答現在進行報告請教育部朱俊彰次長報告時間8分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2775.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2802.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
主席各位委員大家早今日大院召開教育及文化委員會審查高級中等教育法第20條第58條修正草案大學法第35條修正草案專科學校法第44條修正草案今日得應邀列席聆聽委員寶貴的意見甚感榮幸以下請就本部對於各項修正草案的整體回應提出報告進行各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2803.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2824.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
有关委员提案高级中等教育法第20条修法内容主要涉及到高级中等学校辅导主任的任用资格在现行的规定是考量学生的辅导工作具有高度的专业性因此明定辅导主任由专任的辅导教师来担任以维持学生的受辅的品质及专业领导的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2825.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2850.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那在学生辅导工作具有高度的专业性涉及到心理的辅导危机处理及特殊学生的一个支持因此维持具有辅导专业背景的专任辅导教师来担任主任确实是有助于确保整个辅导品质及专业领导在伊萨113年修正的学生辅导法虽然规定学校的辅导主管已由 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2853.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2863.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
據輔導專業專長者優先來任用但立法背景主要是因應國民中小學的制度的特性與高級中等教育法強調的輔導專業的立法精神並無不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2866.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2880.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
第三在教育部我們請邀請地方政府及各級學校的代表研商進行研商多數的委員代表認為高級中等學校輔導主任能以由專業輔導教師來兼任以維持輔導工作的專業品質四 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2886.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2911.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
考量部分學校可能面臨能源配置的困難問題本部將持續收集各界的意見並研議相關的配套措施來兼顧學生的輔導品質以及學校的實務需求二 關於委員提案高級中等教育法58條大學法345條專科學校法44條的修正內容主要是涉及到學生就學學費以及就學貸款等議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2912.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2939.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
在現行各項的多元的助學措施的推動下學生已經可以在不同的教育階段獲得協助跟支持在高級中等教育階段從112學年度第二學期開始已經實施了高中子免學費在大專校院階段則已經透過各類的學雜費減免拉近公私立學校的學費差距及配套措施方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2940.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2957.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
大專校院弱勢學生助學計畫等等措施精準的投放照顧約52%的學生同時也讓不同的學生獲得了學費的減免跟學習生活的一個資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2958.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2982.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
在現行的機制可以學時因應學生需求做調整的情況之下精準投放資源來協助需要幫助跟突發變故的學生那協助他們籌措學業上的困難我想這部分在現行的機制跟就學貸款都可以來協助那就委員的提案我們也做以下的說明一 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2983.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3008.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
現行的助學措施已經有相關的執法跟計畫作為參據可以來因應政策跟經濟情況做滾動的修正本部將持續的推動各項助學措施就各項的措施實施的狀況及學生的實際需求滾動來修正法規命令行政規則及相關的助學計畫跟方案來即時彈性回應以及照顧學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3009.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3024.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
对于委员提出来家庭所的进而适用税率12%以内免纳学杂费家庭所的无等份最低20%者免纳学费增订拉近方案助学退套入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3024.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3040.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
補助額度定期檢討不得低於前一年就寫貸款的生貸資格放寬至150萬由教育部全額負擔利息由主管機關負擔利息寬限期放寬至兩年等等修法內容以本部現行 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3041.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3056.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
推動各項助學措施以優先協助經濟相對弱勢的學生逐步擴大照顧對象的涵蓋範圍是一致的那現行的一個授權執法跟相關的措施計畫已經可以拉入來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3056.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3084.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那在今年的5月27號總統也宣布了舊貸的改革其中針對於在學期間的學生全面免利息畢業後的寬限期有一年延長為兩年那畢業還款時的貸款利息能夠再調降1%這些都是已經在現行的就學貸款辦法以及作為細則就可以來處理那第三委員建議希望能夠針對電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3086.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3103.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
及網路通訊使用費等等貸款項目以及增訂政府因依學生家庭所得或其他突發的經濟不利的情形提供經濟不利處境的學生助學措施等授權文字納入相關法規的修正於本部現行以 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3106.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3126.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
授權執法跟相關措施計畫來提供協助事實的修正的立場做法是一致的綜上委員對於免納學費、就學貸款及學生輔導制度所提的修正建議核心的目標都是在於強化對於學生的支持系統照顧經濟不利處境的學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3127.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3154.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
來維護學生的授教權益本部的議長與委員是一致的那也希望能夠兼顧在法制跟政策執行的即時性跟彈性讓教育部無需透過修法或是我們用授權性的文字就可以來更機動彈性的照顧我們的學生那教育部也會持續透過學雜費減免各項的弱勢助學計畫就學貸款等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3154.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3181.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
以及专业辅导的制度好让资源能够更精准的运用帮助真正有需要的学生以上报告敬请主席及各位委员给予本部指导与支持敬祝各位委员身体健康工作顺利谢谢好 谢谢朱市长报告其余提出书面报告机关代表除书面外有无口同补充机关代表报告完毕相关书面资料请各位参阅并列入公报记录 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3182.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3206.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
現在進行詢答每位出席委員6分鐘列席委員諮詢時間為4分鐘均不再延長發言時間登記為上午10點半委員如果有臨時提案即於上午10點半之前提出並於法案審查完畢後再行處理處理提案時若提案的委員或者是連署委員均不在場照短力不處理那首先請登記第一位柯志恩委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3212.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3241.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好 我們謝謝召委我是不是可以請次長 朱次長跟我們的彭署長有請次長 彭署長晚安早早 等一下好 謝謝我想請問兩位或在場社會教育部的相關官員最近很夯的一部韓劇鐵拳教育看過的人請舉手一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3243.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3262.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
这么少啊就做彭署长那你们教育部真的太不接地气了为什么这部戏啊这么样子的夯因为他虽然是韩国也是非常戏剧非常漫画式的可是他说出了非常多目前校园老师的一个心声很多人看完之后呢就觉得凄凉难过但是又很爽 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3262.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3280.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
原因就是他们是多么希望在这么恶劣的环境当中当家自己压抑这么多那是一种心情的一种投射希望有很多人能够帮他们来疏解来解决所以我觉得教育部的官员应该不要把它当作只是一部剧它反映了非常多的现实的一个人生然后呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3280.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3303.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
特别是我们在5月25号的时候我们高雄发生了一件非常不幸的事件就是有老师来坠楼而这个部分里面都完全显示出他们目前所处的环境是相当不友善的那我想请问一下有关于老师的坠楼这件事情当中教育部内部有没有因为这件事情引发这个校室会议存废的问题有没有进行讨论次长或是署长 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3305.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3327.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
更文報告 針對校事會議的調整在去年再不啟動一相關的討論之後在今年1月已經修正了我們我們都看到修正但是這個修正很顯然對於校園老師的壓力跟友善完全無解而且我說實在的從墜樓校事會議我真的覺得教育部應該有更積極的做法連部長都應該是寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3330.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3352.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
举例来说在你网站上写一个告全国老师的信件来抚慰他们这些老师的一个心情结果竟然都没有而且最重要的是呢你们不但网站没有啊教育部脸书老师5月25号坠楼5月28号你们坠楼的三天你们连发两篇一篇是台美MOU行政记者会一个是0到18岁家庭支持然后呢留言很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3353.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3369.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我如果有人小编上去看的话你会看到很多人就去请长官看看现在校园体系到底崩坏成什么样子老师被歧视被滥诉你们怎么样这些东西都是出现在你们教育部的网站你们就应该知道如果是你们语情调查 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3369.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3385.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
你们就应该知道现在大家所关心的事情是什么就应该做成回应啊而不是来自一些完全没有的一些所谓行政的一个宣导而且呢我在针对这件事情之后呢就提出了几项的建议给教育部三个月的时间 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3385.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3408.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
这有很困难吗我再说一次第一个呢我们就是完全希望能够定义一个全国一致的老师身心健康权益的保障因为每个县市里面他们的一些所谓的经费不一样有些人有千万但是呢还是很多老师还是排不上有些人是非常的拮据所以我们希望教育部能够为了老师的身心能够研制一个统一的标准第二个 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3408.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3436.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我们希望他能够防范恶意的一个骚扰目前来说很多的霸凌的防治都聚焦在师对生的反犯但是缺乏生对师或是家长对师的这个恶意的骚扰所以说呢根据韩国的一些的经验您看明确的规范校园的部分包括羞辱威胁恶意攻击的标准的作业程序这些都是老师很希望能够看到的然后第三个老师你也可以考虑一下去评估一下离线权 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3437.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3464.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
很多家长老师下班之后呢还不断的打电话连个最皮毛的小事情也要打电话到了9点10点还在打电话老师如果不回应的话反而就很容易让老师被concern的不重视学生的这样的一个部分教育部应该都有提到这个部分嘛第四个我强调严重脱序的学生你应该提出安置跟轻职责任的一个给予啊所以说呢很多老师现在不敢管不能管跟不愿管 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3465.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3482.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
你让这个老师的尊严荡然无存然后让这些事情不断在发生就要不毫无作为给予一个合理的一个辅导的管教权有很困难吗还有关注教师会议你如果现在不能废的话你是不是有办法有做一个第三方校园冲突的仲裁委员会你可以逼你捐款呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3483.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3508.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
提供一些法律的协助啊不要每件事情送到这个地方让老师好在那边受到公审你知道对于老师对有热忱老师对这件事情来说他们的身心所受到的一个煎熬教部难道视而不见吗你一月提出的修正会前会很显然很多老师不买单难道不能够再做精进的做法吗署长次长可不可以给我们一个更好更积极的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3509.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3525.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
謝謝委員我想分兩點來說明在校事會議今年1月調整之後我們有對外承諾在半年內我們會收集現場的資料做調整目前初步收集的資料整個校事會議送進去受理之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3527.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3537.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
整個比例其實已經從先前82會進入校室會議現在已經降到只有22%會在校室會議處理你覺得22很少嗎已經從82降到22那剛開始本來就是非常不合理剛開始80幾的時候你就知道老師身心做到多大的創傷你都沒有無視於這樣的一個事實你們還告訴我降到20幾你覺得這是一個很好的功勞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3553.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3569.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們會根據這段時間的一個資料也會再做持續的我告訴你很多事情真的不用進到消費會議如果之前能夠有個更有法律措施上面你讓很多可能是誤會可能需要溝通來做這樣一個處理的話勢必可以減低更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3570.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3590.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
所以说这个部分里面7月你刚说1月公布的话6个月收集请你能够收集更好的资料为什么我要这样讲因为我官方提你报告有关于高级中等教师教育法的第20条就是本人所提案的你从头告诉我你就找了一堆的老师各地方对不起本人所提到的是完全中学 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3591.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3611.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
你完全是拿一般性的中学来跟我处理这个状况次长 组长我强调的是完全中学里面现在现实环境当中所面临的一些的问题我当然知道专业非常的重要我训练这么多学生我怎么知道专业不重要但是今天跟我澄清的就是完全中学的老师 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3612.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3641.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
因為國中跟高中他們一個人要處理國中跟高中的兩樣階段的事情然後你現在呢完全比照高中的方式專職的老師就是專輔的老師才有辦法兼任可是目前國中的很多的老師的輔導主任他有這樣的證照他也具有熱忱而且根據我們現在國民教育法第21條三項的規定或者甚至我們新修的學生輔導法的規定都告訴大家只要具有 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3642.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3667.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這樣子的輔導的這個行政的專業性都可以我現在專指完全中學你不要拿一般的中學來跟我討論這個狀況我們只希望在完全中學當中給現有的國中的輔導主任他在處理的時候能夠保有他行政上面的這樣子一個彈性所以不要拿一般東西來你們真的在這件事情上有真的問過完全中學這些輔導主任的看法嗎有嗎你們找了這麼多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3668.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3690.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
若是我在地方开这么多会你有找过完全中学这些老师的看法吗?跟委员回报两点刚刚提到这一点以及前面那个校师会议或教师父老管教首先后面这一点的话那我们会根据委员最近的提案我们要考量完全中学的特性邀请会议的时候也是有邀请但是能不能更全面会照委员的意思再邀 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3691.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3702.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
今天如果修法在實質討論上是不是給我們有剛剛有提到有比較完整的配套措施因為畢竟希望能夠專業來領導專業這件事我完全無意但是我現在討論的是現實的問題現在的問題就是完全中學不要拿那個一般的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3709.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3729.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
一般的法條沒有問題完全中學老師就面臨的一個人要申請高中跟國中那國中老師因為你們向這個法條過去之後破壞他過去長期以來可以擔任輔導主任在專業上的確有他的需要以及在實務運作上有委員考慮的所以這個是我們來一起再研議下午的專案討論的時候法條上我們會詳細跟委員報告第二點是回到剛剛消失會議這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3735.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3759.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
校室會議在1月12號修法之後有一個非常重要的精神一個是分流一個是減少匿名這個委員都知道那所以有減量的非常大但這個不足夠因此委員剛剛直指問題是老師的管教權管教權的部分涉及到學校訂定父老管教辦法的注意事項這個由教育部學特斯跟國教署一起來訂我們會在一個月內就其中的第23條24條到27條一起來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3762.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3787.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
刚刚又发生这么多案的事件我还是强调你们医院所提出来的部分还是没有办法降低目前来说校园里面对老师的不友善跟压力所以才会有这么多校园老师的事件发生所以我才从目前来说老师的情绪老师的投射在一个这样子的一个剧本单中里面有这么样多的怨气所以呢你们刚刚说医院开始这样到七月有六个月的时间 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3787.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3810.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
能够提出更完善根据目前所校园里面老师的这样的一个不友善能够提出来我等着然后我刚所提出那五大项三个月之内署长很显然是不需要到三个月更快的时间对我们每一项所提出来这都是老师的心声能够给我们一个积极跟非常具体的一个做法可以吗好 没问题好 谢谢好 谢谢委员谢谢市长 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3815.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3836.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
好有關於校事會議還有校園霸凌大家都非常關切所以也感謝委員引出我們鐵拳教育為什麼會讓大家這麼關注下禮拜一我們會舉辦相關的公聽會來檢討校事會議那也希望讓最第一線老師來到委員會來發聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3838.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3857.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
下礼拜一也欢迎所有的委员能够一起来为现场的校园状况来发声感谢大家谢谢下一位陈培宇委员谢谢好谢谢主席有请次长有请次长 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3860.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3878.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
委員長好 早安因著剛剛柯志恩委員的質詢我就先直接往下說但是我想要先提醒大家一件事情制度之所以會改革其實確實是因為在現場發生了一些事情不知道大家還記不記得豐原高中案是因為豐原高中案所以我們促成了三聘辦法的修訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3879.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3899.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
也促成了校園霸凌防制準則的修訂當然也促成了校事會議這件事情可是為了預防再次發生學生墜樓的悲劇現在我們看見是更多老師校園的悲劇但我要說的是在校園裡面不會只有學生也不會只有老師他還有行政機關 行政主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3899.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3921.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
甚至大家不要忘記學生背後有家長所以當有家長的聲音老師的聲音學生的聲音還有所有行政的聲音是在校園裡面大家是共同在承擔這個壓力的時候我們就必須要積極的提出一個我們辦公室一直在跟教育部溝通的事情但是我想先來下一張我想要先拜託教育部看到一件事情來下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3922.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3949.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
目前我們看到不管是全教產或是全教總或者是代理代課老師的工會他們都已經正式的發出聲明對於老師們在學校所感受到的壓力也就是剛剛很多委員或者是等一下很多委員會要關心的我不知道教育部怎麼看待這三個團體對於教育部提出的沉重呼籲甚至是怒吼但我想你們應該都有收集相關資料我就不再贅述可是我要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3950.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3968.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
當我們看到這些聲音的時候不要忘記背後還有家長的聲音還有學生的聲音還有行政主管的聲音甚至校事會議裡面會有所謂調查專家的聲音所以如果要把這麼多人的聲音都放進考量裡頭我們到底有哪些可能可以做我想要試試看跟教育部談以下的解方來 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3969.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3997.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我們做了四件事情的努力第一個我們希望持續跟教育部溝通家庭教育這件事情接下來我們試著想要嘗試提出第三方專責機構第三個就是關於教師的職業安全指引第四個就是教師的離線權賴第一個所謂家庭教育這件事情我相信教育部一定非常的清楚其實相關的預算在新版財化法通過之後放在教育部本部終身教育司的家庭教育預算其實逐年下滑 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3998.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4002.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
但是家長對於家庭教育的需求卻逐年上升 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4029.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4050.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
擴大想像家庭教育的面向現在我們有家庭教育中心但是我們看到他們非常習慣辦一些課程跟活動但是有沒有真的可以協助到現場需要協助的家長還有資源如何精準的投放最後我也要說過去我看到教育部甚至還主張要叫學校老師去對家長做家庭教育這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4051.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4070.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
來跟我們辦公室開會的時候是講出這樣的話我不知道次長你覺得有沒有很荒謬當學校老師的壓力已經大到自己都沒有辦法承擔我們居然還要學校老師去協助家長做家庭教育這件事情請不要再發生所以關於家庭教育的部分我就先說到這邊我想把全部的部分都講完第二個第三方專責機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4071.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4091.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我要說的是現在也有很多學校老師或是學校行政端主張現在所有的司法狀況發生在校園裡頭讓校園不再是純粹的教學機構但是第三方專責機構這件事情未來有沒有可能我認為再跟地方政府要拜託教育部開始進行研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4091.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4108.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
當然這個程序當中必須公開公正確保所有人的相關權益都受到照顧還有要有實名過篩的機制不要讓很多的爛訴一再的發生同時要專業人員的主導還有政府資源的投入因為現場的爛訴我知道你們已經透過一些修法去解決了 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4110.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4132.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
你剛也說相關案件也變低但是未來相關的公正性如何確保我剛說的家長的權益學生的權益老師的權益還有學校行政單位的權益都必須要受到照顧這件事情沒有辦法偏袒任何一方我們不希望當學生出事的時候我們就覺得校事會議很重要我們也不希望當老師出事的時候我們就覺得校事會議不重要我要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4133.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4147.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
学校它是多元的角色所组成的没有任何一个角色可以被偏袒但是也没有任何一个角色可以被忽略接下来我要讲的是教师职业安全指引我们如果去看现行的职安法理念 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4148.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4168.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
如果要照顾到学校老师在职场被霸凌的部分不论是师跟师之间的霸凌或是长官对老师的霸凌甚至是学生如黄刚刚说的铁拳教育里面目前我们看到相关的法规只有第六条第二项有关于执行职务的时候因为他人的行为遭受身体或精神不法侵害之预防 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4169.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4189.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
也就是說目前職展法關於老師的部分只有這一條目前我們看到有教育業務單位指出各縣市在處理相關的事情會有自治事項來次長但是我們要說自治事項是不是各縣市制度都有統一因為老師不會只有在單一縣市教學 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4190.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4211.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
老師一定會掉所以如果現行的職安法相關的保障不周而老師的職業安全又沒有辦法被保護各縣市的制度又不統一我們認為有沒有辦法不要經過冗長的立法程序在教育部這邊提出老師的職業安全指引我認為這件事情是可以比較快速的保障老師的權益同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4213.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4235.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
不影響學生跟家長的權益來最後一個教師離線權離線權這件事情我相信是現在第一線老師的痛苦但是我也可以理解很多家長可能覺得自己下班後才有時間打電話給老師但是我想教育部應該要有相關規定協助老師當老師的後盾因為每一個人都需要休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4235.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4264.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
孩子们回到家需要休息所以我们希望孩子不要过度的补习家长下班后我们也希望家长的主管不要打扰家长所以我们在劳动部有相关的法规确保每一个劳动劳工离开职场之后他有好好的休息一样老师他某一个程度上也需要他也是劳工他也需要被保障他的休息权当然我们知道当学生遇到紧急事故的时候不得不联络老师的时候这个时候他有特殊的原因但是正常的休息时间老师有权利不被打扰 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4265.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4277.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
以上我提出四个建议从教师理训权教师职业安全指引第三方专者机构跟教育部持续协助家长做家庭教育这件事情我想请教育部这边简单回应一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4279.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4308.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
好 謝謝委員指導一個合理的管教權不要讓老師失去尊嚴或是覺得無力但是也要避免學生學的恐懼或是受到傷害我想這個拿捏確實是下一步未來我們會跟學校跟地方主管機關來進一步的討論一個合理的一個管教權那另外在整個校職會議的處理剛剛也提到我們半年內會來做一些持續的精進跟檢討那對於老師的支持跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4310.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4330.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
激烈的措施 陳如委員講的 我們可以朝有安全指引 甚至透過家庭教育來協助 教育部我們先前已經有做的就是在行政減量 這個都是希望透過事前的一個減壓跟事後的一個支持預防來協助 最後委員提到了有關第三方 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4331.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4352.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
的一個仲裁機制這個部分也有跟地方政府有一些討論我想委員今天建議我們也會來持續的跟地方政府做一些磋商那離縣選這個部分回到一樣是機制面怎麼跟老師的一個士氣的激勵我們從去年開始調整了老師的一些相關的家計行政工作的獎金都是朝這個方向在做我想我們會以 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4354.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4378.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
根據我的建議我們來努力謝謝我想我剛四個建議其實都不是及時可以促成的但是如果沒有累積這些對於制度改革的決心我們很擔心現場除了老師的壓力其實家長也有壓力孩子們也有壓力但是學校它應該是一個學習的場合它是讓孩子開拓視野也讓老師對自己的職業有尊榮感甚至讓家長安心的場域 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4379.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4395.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
然後所有願意付出時間做行政的這些主管們他們也都覺得可以安心的支持行政系統我想這不是一個容易的事情所以我們很負責任提出解方也希望持續跟教育部溝通我們把這些聲音從制度面做好改革拜託教育部我們一起努力謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4422.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4450.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
好謝謝主席有請朱次長晚安早次長早最近台灣教育界不平靜發生一些憾事宜蘭有女老師被丟鉛筆盒導致被刺傷流血有國小女老師被惡意的做了傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4452.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4474.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
反而是被校士會議認定老師傷害學生因為他本人的把他推開換來了一個身戒的處分還有這個老師被捉弄弄壞桌椅失去重心換來一個殘衰還有最令人不捨跟遺憾的是還有墜樓身亡的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4476.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4494.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
根據中小學校長協會調查發現近兩年共有89所學校回報教師招學生攻擊受傷的情況那部分教師出現恐懼焦慮失眠這些都可能只是冰山一角 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4496.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4522.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那其實啊教育部如果自己不努力啊變成民間的媒體比你們還認真喔這就不好了親子天下的雜誌今年進行調查有沒有看過有沒有看過這個調查沒看過我現在讓你看喔市長這個數字啊台灣國中小教師的幸福感分數滿分100分老師給的平均分數60分啊不及格 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4524.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4537.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
學校要重視的就是師生不是只有學生的考試要及格老師的幸福感滿意度也應該要及格最慘的是有高達六成的教師表示五年內想要離開教職 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4539.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4556.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
還有五成的老師表示如果有重新選擇職壓的機會絕對不願意再投入教職了市長這是一個國家教育政策徹底失敗的重大警訊假設一家公司裡面有六成的員工表示五年內想離職這個企業還經營得下去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4560.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4581.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
这样的企业有幸福吗那要提升幸福感我们教育部啊竟然逆向操作啊口口声声说要行政减量结果呢第一线的老师啊沦为教育部政令宣导的免洗块随便哪个部会只要做政令宣导都可以来使用一纸公文发出去老师就要向学生 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4582.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4602.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
像家長做宣導反毒、交通安全、性平教育、反詐騙、衛生保健這些政策我們都認同啊但是這通常每一個都造成行政的增量教育部口口聲聲行政減量對外有沒有幫第一線老師們拒絕過任何一項政令宣導的業務有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4605.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4621.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
郭文報告我們從去年開始也在檢討整個行政減量的工作去年開始那我們現在講的都是今年還有啊沒有關係啦其實教育部今年四月啊又有一個大宣布啊這個事情次長您知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4622.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4634.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
各位報告這部分知道我們了解知道嘛但是它並不是由第一線的老師來執行是由我們學校的學安人力你先讓我說完是這個你們清新毒品問題說要唾液快篩 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4638.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4664.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
你說教育部是到底現在是誰來負責啊你就是不是第一線老師那你說是誰我們目前針對毒品在校園內本來就有尿液篩檢這一塊那脫液篩檢是多一個檢查的工具我知道其實到底是誰執行基本上都是由學校的生府組長或是學安人士生府組長是不是老師兼任有沒有很多是老師兼任 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4667.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4686.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
在學校來講一般是老師兼任對嘛哇我們現在台灣啊變成一個文字遊戲的國度啦Energy不是Electricity身府組長不一定就是老師啊我問了身府組長多數是老師兼任啊那錯意篩檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4688.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4696.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
到底誰負責你說不是老師不是一線的老師你說是深府組長問你深府組長是誰老師兼任 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4698.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4723.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我們其實尊重專業但是我們也要尊重一線老師我們所有教學人員的權益我有說錯嗎根本報告脫衣快篩跟尿液快篩都是篩檢不是疊加上去的任務第二個陳五族長他本來的職責大概就有這一塊在校園的一個反讀或推動工作但是並不是由第一線的老師導師來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4727.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4753.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
原来如此所以不是导师就不是第一线老师这是教育部的官方定义吗你现在要这样定义吗我并不是这么说我是说是由三府组长这本来就是他的工作职责之一没有去加重我们其他老师市长你很专业我们不要玩文字游戏回去您听一下您自己的回答我想前线的老师可能都会很狐疑没关系你说这是他本来的职责我们来请教 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4754.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4782.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
超級可怕的你們這樣的認知非常可怕校園內實施唾液快篩好 你說唾液篩檢跟尿液篩檢這本來就是要做的啊法源依據是什麼教育部要不要守法法源依據是什麼來 請說 次長請說在尿液快篩的法源依據是來自於毒房條例那唾液快篩這個部分目前我們是會以先徵求學生跟大家長的同意才會來做實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4783.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4802.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
好啦 又改啦 又改說法啦哇 我們昨天才有大委員幾分鐘之內從沒有退讓的空間到立刻說好 立刻退讓剛剛你才說尿液拖曳本來就是要做的這個可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4803.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4829.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
一問有沒有法源依據 你說可以啊結果咧 再細問下來 立刻改變說法為什麼 法源依據就是不能採托役嘛你現在立刻又改說法了 我們採的時候經過他們的同意館長 我就請教次長 你要請每一個學生家長要請教同意你這些前線老師是怎麼樣 教書都不用教啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4829.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4855.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
委員報告我們並不是做普篩我們是針對學校有列車的特定人員才會去要求說做篩檢那請問哪一個法院讓你來挑學生的哪一個法院讓你來挑學生的噢 葛如君同學你下課來檢查一下唾液我是哪裡有問題嗎所有的學生都在看著我啊我在那邊吐口水我是不是有吸毒 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4857.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4880.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
是這樣子嗎新聞報告尿液快篩是有毒防條例的法源對我就問你同意快篩法源是什麼啊要不要有法源當然要有法源所以我們目前是希望學生要有法源法源在哪裡嘛法源在哪裡你有同意就可以喔那我請你同意了我可以沖你的血這樣是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4882.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4895.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我們如果你不同意就直接了解這個部分是一個篩選工具執法的選擇教育部就是要守法你教育部自己沒有優先來守法 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4896.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4916.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
然後呢法律程序完全沒有完備然後急著要九月毒品快篩我們絕對支持去反毒如果有好的法源依據可以協助校園安全的毒品什麼樣的快篩我們也支持但是不要讓第一線老師來承擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4917.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4940.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
法律的風險啊是對不對大法官有解釋人格權身體權均受中華民國憲法第22條的保障而且啊如果你們要用修改要點的方式之前有人問你們你們說我們改一個要點如果用要點就可以來侵害身體權這就完全違反法律保留的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4941.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4955.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
剛剛我們質詢的過程聽得出一大堆的問題請教育部好好地檢討一下不然這整個過程所有老師聽到你們這樣不要講六成五年內想離職可能變七成 可能變八成 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4956.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4985.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
本席具體要求教育部和法務部溝通必須讓毒品危害防治條例先修法通過法源完備以後再推動校園的拖曳篩檢不要讓老師去承擔法律的風險另外在推動修法的同時教育部也要和地方的教育局來溝通研議補足校園的人力有必要徵聘學務人員來執行校案的工作不要讓這種繁重的裁檢的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4986.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5015.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
規則不清法令不明還要全部落到老師的頭上請次長可不可以當場承諾讓第一線的老師可以放心我剛才報告我從一開始就是強調這個不管是脫篩或是尿液篩選都不會增加目前老師要他去執行這是由我們學校本來就在執行這個業務的生扶主或是校務學務人員來進行我剛剛已經問您了生扶主校務人員是不是老師嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5016.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5037.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
你也說是 然後你又說不是老師來執行全國的學生家長聽您這樣講我到底有什麼考試啊我們不會增加其他老師的負擔第二個部分我們會只增加被增加負擔的老師的負擔不增加那些不會被增加負擔的老師負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5039.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5058.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
沒關係 我讓您講完 不好意思第二個 我們在操作之前一定會讓現場執行的人員有足夠的一個指引第三個 不是普篩它是針對特定人員的一個學生才做你知道這三點你落獎哪一個嗎要不要守法 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5059.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5079.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
要不要有法源依據要還是不要我剛剛有跟你們報告在尿塞的部分已經有我們今天一直我從頭到尾都在講脫塞一定要先取得家長跟學生同意你才做脫塞我從頭到尾在講脫塞脫塞需不需要法源依據我們當然需要有法源依據所以我才會說需要家長跟學生同意才可以操作我們請具體承諾可以嗎我剛剛的承諾我會跟法務部針對法律的問題進行我爭取一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5087.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5102.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
這個AI的方舟計畫你們這個之前被我們抓包根本還沒通過大打廣告直接上雜誌我們鎖之鎖不到結果反而雜誌上面八頁的報導然後我們看到5月22號 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5104.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5132.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
卓院長跟你們一起來推了這個什麼推動人才計畫6月3號行政院網站正式公佈AI人才方舟計畫我們很高興啊想說已經拍板定案了我們馬上再次所知要了解細節結果教育部跟我們答覆說行政院是原則核定整個計畫大幅要修正完全沒有計畫的完整內容可以提供哇 事情發展至此啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5133.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5148.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
本來啊 我們還想說哇 這個是什麼很像詐騙集團的感覺哇 現在詐騙真的本來只是詐騙者現在變詐騙的集團囉這變成是一整個團隊啊欸 恭喜您中獎了 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5149.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5176.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
什麼時候領獎 不知道中多少 不知道先跟你說一百多億啦之後再說細節有這種的喔我真的想喔這樣子的做法讓人很擔憂所以我具體請教到底什麼時候能完成所謂大幅修正什麼時候能上路廣告都做了來 請說官文報告行政院已經同意我們AI人才方舟計畫了 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5180.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5182.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
完整細節沒給啊多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5184.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5213.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
什麼時候執行而且那個副長說明我們核定的程序我時間有限什麼時候執行多少錢跟委員報告那目前是核定從今年開始那累計四年那四年總共編定了117億的預算會不會改我們問了你們不敢講啊不會跟委員報告執行什麼時候執行現在就開始執行往後的四年現在已經在執行那完整計畫為什麼沒辦法交出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5214.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5233.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
完整機會可以提供給委員可以提供給委員又來了我們是所知都不能提供到這裡突然又都可以了到底是怎樣跟詐騙集團這個被抓包了說對對對我可以給你錢不要這樣好不好該提供的資訊提供清楚相關的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5235.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5261.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
趕快提供我們趕快要提供給委員謝謝委員長對不起主席我再爭取一點點時間這個AI的公司協力啦全世界都在拼啦這個怎麼樣去結合這個公司協力來提供學生更多的這個AI的能量好不好一個月內書面提供給本席相關資訊我們也會提供給你們好不好那另外本席也整理了一下啦為經濟弱勢的學生要來爭取為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5264.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5285.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
因為他們現在真的沒有錢學費貸款網路費貸款他們沒有錢去付AI的費用那沒有學生方案免費學生方案有期限那校園授權軟體目前沒有付費公版的AI那有學校已經先領頭了長庚大學做得很棒1000個學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5286.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5315.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
有特定品牌的付費AI可以用兩個月那現在的系所其實也沒有編列補助那這個部分也希望這個次長站在AI平權的立場我們一起來推動兩個業務就是說第一研議經濟弱勢的學生我們來做AI的補助不要讓他們的吃飯錢便當錢來用AI買AI的工具那也研議呢就是說這個大學的系所進行AI工具的付費AI工具的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5316.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5334.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
因為以前我們有版權軟體現在沒有公版的AI或版權的AI這個來補助系所加強資源我剛剛是比較就是希望真的要注重學生的權益所以真的很投入也請見諒教育部我還是要感謝你們有管管有AI |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5335.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5338.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
然後這個也說我們也聽到高教師有說新一年度的預算會編列大學的付費AI對不對所以這個我們也一直爭取也謝謝你們回應那從館館有AI要變成大學的館館有AI大學的圖書館也要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5351.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5371.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
變成系系有AI 系管也有AI變成私生人人有AI好不好我們一起往這裡前進最後我想對昨天運動部巡檔的內容做一個澄清昨天我轉述林益錦委員的質詢他引用運動部的報告說制定前瞻性的法規命令來策略做法我當下在台下聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5372.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5397.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
把這句話呢解讀成為是制定前瞻性的法規命令就是電競基本法而策略做法就是行政所以我把這段話解讀為沒有法律部會就沒有辦法採取行政作為那事後呢發現我和林一席委員是對於運動部報告的內容有點各自解讀啦那林一席委員確實沒有表達沒有法律就無法行政的意思我要在此對大家表示歉意謝謝謝謝次長謝謝主席好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5403.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5430.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
麻煩次長有關方舟計畫相關的計畫內容會後交給所有的委員完整的內容請交付所有的委員教文委員會有關於公司協力相關的一些計畫籌備剛剛委員有提到一個月內是否也可以一個月內彙整相關公司協力的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5436.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5458.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
合作提供相關的AI給我們的孩子的部分是不是一個月內來相關做一個測備也是一個月麻煩謝謝下一位陳秀寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5462.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5473.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
不好意思 我們在郭育秦委員發言完畢以後休息五分鐘廖主席 請朱次長次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5477.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5499.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
市長早市長 教育部現行已經推動了許多助學的措施包含學雜費減免拉近公私立學校學雜費差距方案大專校園落實學生助學計劃以及就學貸款總編列的預算高達238.15億所有助學措施涵蓋率大概有52% |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5500.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5525.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那教育部呢辦理這些助學措施目前也是以修正辦法的方式來推動也就是說以辦法的方式呢是比較能夠及時因應學生的需求當我們的學生受到大環境的變化家庭因素或是發生影響學生就學的事件的時候教育部就能夠因應不同的需求訂定這個助學的措施來彈性的因應各種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5526.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5549.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
因此本席提案呢增定政府因依學生家庭所得或其他突發經濟不利情況提供經濟不利處境學生助學措施這樣一個概括性的條文喔詳細的這個遵行的事項辦法呢就授權給教育部來定那次長你覺得這樣子修法內容是不是對於教育部推動助學措施是比較有利比較有彈性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5550.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5568.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
是 謝謝委員知道 確實在目前的助學措施像以就代辦法 本來在大學法就有個授權的規定所以教育部以往針對就代的一些精進包含生帶的資格 寬限期的產短甚至我們提供畢業後 如果你的月薪沒有達到五萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5569.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5588.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
你還可以申請先還繳本息都不用負擔這個部分從民國95年到115年是20年我們已經從3萬一路放到5萬甚至以後你多生個小朋友你大概可以多連月薪6萬兩個就7萬所以這個部分都不用修法在授權辦法就可以所以我們認同為人所以可以因應各種不同發生的狀況隨時來做調整它是比較彈性的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5596.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5617.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以說以學貸目前來講其實教育部能夠為學生做的 為學生設想的剛剛我講了這個涵蓋的語氣來到52%我想教育部這邊也陸續的在就各種方面各種面向滾動的檢討也希望說提供給我們學生更多更有力更全面的協助是嗎是 沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5617.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5637.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
好 謝謝市長好 那接下來呢我想要針對近期發生這個教師的這個壓力事件有這個基層教師罪了這個漢市來關心教學現場老師的壓力根據教育部下案通報中師長與學生衝突事件這些衝突事件裡面的行為人是學生這個統計數字來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5638.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5641.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
113年有297件114年有477件但是115年到4月就已經通報了200件等於一個月就有50件那師生衝突也就是教學現場是老師要面臨一個很大的壓力之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5655.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5669.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
接著老師的壓力跟困境要如何緩解本席覺得說這現在是教育部目前要很積極處理的問題那很多團體以及在野黨立委直指說校事會議是主因啦即便說教育部現在要透過分流啊反爛樹這樣來踩煞車 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5671.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5690.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
但是其中針對就是教師受到的專業尊嚴受損或是防疫性教學這樣的影響是一直就都存在那重視親師之間的這個已經被摧毀這個信任感我們該如何去重建它我想這個需要很長的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5691.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5708.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那如何讓制度回歸當初我們2020推出這個教師會這個的原意就是要建立客觀制度化的這樣一個管道來派出不適合的教師保障學生就學的權益那但是到今天這樣的狀況了我覺得教育部應該有更積極的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5709.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5735.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
但是這個同時我們必須要一起來討論關心就是兒少的部分根據媒體報導呢2025年高中以下輕生的兒少創19年來的新高自殺死亡人數來到60人除了學習的壓力呢其實兒少還面臨多種的壓力師長及學生的壓力都在成長都在增加的這個情況下學校就變成像是一個壓力鍋可能學校這樣子的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5736.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5761.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
變成說不管是老師或是學生他每天想到去學校都是一件舉步維艱就是很困難的事情加上目前親師間這種親師生之間這種高度的緊張的互動關係我想發生的狀況會越來越多那其中本席在預算審查的時候有提到說越來越多孩子會透過生成式AI聊天來紓解心中的壓力或是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5761.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5778.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
他不知道去跟誰求助的時候他跟線上這個AI的系統來求助但是國外也確實是發生說有深層式AI引導使用者智商戰的案例但是目前我們並沒有看到有相關應對這個方式這也是我們要去特別的關注的 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5779.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5806.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
快樂的教師呢就不會教出快樂的學生這是必然的一直來教學現場老師面臨很多的壓力例如剛才很多委員有提到過的政策執行的壓力或者說是第一線學生衝突的這個情緒還有繁重的這個行政業務的工作那如果教育部提出的方法跟配套沒有有效的緩解教學現場老師的壓力跟困境其實我們很難阻止這樣的憾事再發生喔那 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5807.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5829.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
同時我再來我們從針對不同的世代價值觀的衝突來討論的話前些日子世新大學校長在畢業典禮上所說的這個如果你的時間啊你的情緒啊你的身體沒有管理好那你就趕快結束自己其實這樣的言論啊不僅是登上了這個脫口秀引起討論呢也引起了就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5830.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5846.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
相關價值觀衝突這樣的很熱烈的討論就連輝達執行長黃仁勛都說亞洲父母養大的孩子這輩子都得看心理醫生次長您覺得說以上這樣子所討論的這些狀況您的想法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5846.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5873.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
是 根文報告確實一個合理的管教權怎麼讓老師不會覺得沒有尊嚴或無力感但是也要同時避免讓學生陷於恐懼或是受到傷害這中間的拿捏本來就很不容易所以這塊陳如瑋講的這是需要一個長期的親師生的信任關係的一個建立這也是教育部一直以來在努力的空間包含我們提到的事前的減量 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5874.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5896.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
行政的減量第二個部分是有一個合理的在執行管教學的一些阻缺的事由我們剛才提到如果老師是為了因應教室現場一些失控違法不法的行為老師是該必要的時候是可以採取一些詳細的方法來進行不會造成可以阻缺一些違法這是一該做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5896.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5923.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那最後是委員這邊特別提到的給老師激勵跟支持的一個環境這也是個重點所以這個部分是我們持續在努力在精進的地方除了說剛才次長您所回答的部分不管是在行政上教學上或者是直接第一線的是面臨學生的這個情緒上今天為什麼我還提到說老師的壓力兒少的壓力或者是說社會不同世代價值觀這個部分因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5924.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5940.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
老師現在要承受的他很多元他不只是本身自己的工作上那其實情緒這是一個互動這是一個互相的一個互動就是老師的情緒會影響到孩子同時學生的情緒也會影響到老師那 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5940.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5956.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我們現在的孩子他面對的一些衝擊面對的事件其實比我們那時候成長的時候所要面對的還要更多所以這樣的壓力加注在孩子身上您是不是也會覺得說我們的孩子需要有很強大的心理素質來面對這些是 沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5959.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5985.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
好那麼這樣子所有的總歸不管是教師的心理壓力兒少的心理壓力還有不同的世代價值觀衝突的這樣的壓力加到我們的孩子身上加到老師身上的時候我們期待我們的孩子可以及早辨認自身的情緒以及同理他人所以我們會有一個社會情緒學習SEL這樣的課程那其實在過去的教育我們是缺了這一塊所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5986.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6013.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
到現在我們來重視我們的兒少重視我們的學生的同時我要請問次長我們的師長是不是也應該導入這樣的學習非常同意有快樂的老師才有快樂的學生怎麼讓老師能夠透過SEL來覺察管理然後重塑一些跟親師之間的關係我想這非常重要其實我們要教導我們的孩子的同時其實我們的老師當他承受這樣子不同的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6015.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6040.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
多面向的压力的时候我们也要让我们的老师有这样子的一个学习跟成长以及对自我内心压力的一个疏解那我想这一块我希望说教育部你们是很正式而且是有一个正向的积极的作为针对这个部分我是不是可以要求你们尽快的对这一个方面你们有所规划的话是不是可以给我一份你们的报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6040.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6065.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
好 那委員是不是給我們三個月的時間兩個月好嗎好 我們兩個月的時間有一個比較完整的檢討跟未來的進行作為跟委員報告好 謝謝次長 謝謝主席好 謝謝請坐下一位有請郭益勤委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6079.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6107.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
謝謝主席 有請次長有請次長晚安 早好 次長早安我想這個現行的助學措施其實我們已經有涵蓋了剛剛其實秀寶委員有特別提到了將近52%那這個其中大概可以受益超過50多萬的一個學生那當然近期其實我們也看到了就是我們的政府推出這個台灣人口對策的新戰略 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6108.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6122.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那同時呢在學生學貸的一個部分利息也調降到0.775%那另外呢我們也把這個快進期主動的延長到了兩年喔那預計受惠的學生可能會超過60萬人好這個數據應該是沒有錯的對不對是64萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6126.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6149.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那我想這個也證明了其實我們不需要等到修法修到天荒地老其實我們隨時就可以因應現在的助學的措施來做一個進行滾動式的這樣子的一個調整那我想這樣子是馬上就可以來解決就是需要的學生他們的一些關於這個學費的上面的一個這樣子的一個負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6149.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6170.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
那在這裡其實我還是要強調一下其實我們的執政黨的委員我們都有提我們各自的一個版本但是非常的遺憾這個在野黨他們不附議我們的這個同意書所以導致我們這個版本其實是沒有辦法今天一起來變案做進入這個討論在這裡小小的抗議一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6171.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6180.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那但是呢我也要提到就是我們的委員的版本有很多的修正案那其實目標都非常清楚也非常的一個務實那我舉例來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6182.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6201.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
包括條文呢其實我們有特別寫到這個大學生的這個學習電腦啊跟網路其實他們是必需品那麼也主張將這個電腦以及周邊的一些通訊的一個使用的費用這明文來納入這個學貸的部分那另外呢我們也要求這個中央依據這個所得或者是突發的經濟不利的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6203.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6220.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那像是家中的一些突發的一些狀況做精準的一個助學的措施跟還款的一個協助那但是現在問題來囉我們看到這個在黨的版本他們是想要把提案把所有的這個包含全額的補貼那另外呢還有免排付 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6221.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6242.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
甚至快限期兩年這些比較具體的文字跟數字全部寫在魔法裡那我們就開始擔心了就像我剛剛說的其實我們現行的助學措施其實是可以滾動式彈性來做調整但一旦寫進了魔法請問我們的彈性在哪裡如果將來我們全球的物價劇烈的變動那這個法律已經寫死了 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6243.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6262.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那我們是不是還能夠像現在一樣來做滾動式的調整還是說我們每一次可能因為這樣子的問題又要在立法院又要來吵架然後又要來修法那我想這個公平性到底在哪裡那我們委員各個就是執行長的委員我們提出的版本其實是精準投放 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6263.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6289.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
讓真正需要的經濟不利的人能夠給予這個所謂的還款的一個協助但是現在變成我們看到的今天等一下我們可能會審查的這些版本當中他們是齊頭式的補貼我想這可能會變成所謂的資源的挫制甚至會重疊而無法去救急到那些突然遭逢變故的一些邊緣戶的一個學生這是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6289.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6306.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
比較擔憂這樣子的一個版本的問題在這裡我還是要建議請問一下這個教育部我們支不支持這種所謂的原則性的立法我們應該是要把這樣子的一個狀況改成像這一類的保障的一個文字在魔法當中細節 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6307.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6330.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
是不是应该还是回归到我们原本的所谓的现行的一个数学的措施尤其是我们近日就已经有特别说我们包含还款这样子的期限我们宽限期到两年然后这个利息也降到了0.715我们是可以做滚动式的调整其实要写金母法这个教育部觉得适当吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6331.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6352.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
跟委員報告其實各位委員提的版本希望能夠來支持學生這個教育部絕對會全力的來努力我們的目的都是一樣的但我們更期待的是說像委員講的給我們一些彈性以目前大學法專科學校法跟高級中等教育法來講他在就學貸款這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6352.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6371.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
本來就是有授權的辦法讓教育部訂所以在過去的20年教育部在就學代股我們做了很多的精進措施這樣就很有彈性包含剛剛講的一些比較屬於門檻式的是不是可以讓我們保留因應時事來做一些調整我想這在照顧學生應該是會更貼切 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6372.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6386.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
好 這個我們等一下其實應該也會進入很多的討論那第二個問題其實我相信大家最近都在追劇那追的這部劇呢我相信有很多的教學現場有很多的共鳴十集我也在昨天看完了 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6387.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6411.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
那當然這個戲中呢是以稍微這個應該是說他們雖然戲劇的成分稍微有一點誇大但是我想這個在教育現場其實是每天甚至時時刻刻都在發生的一個拉扯的一個狀況那我想校園的衝突我們看到三方都在受害那麼有熱忱但是被非理性期待的這些老師們他們已經被壓垮了 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6412.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6435.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
再来就是被霸凌的孩子不管是同侪之间的霸凌或师生之间的一个霸凌其实他们也面临这样子的一个现场的一个困境再来还有爱子心切却沟通失控的一些家长我想当这个亲师生他们三方的冲突不断地在教学现场发生我想校园已经变成是一个战场了 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6435.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6456.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那如果这个教育部还记得的话其实去年5月28号我是第一个在我们的委员会提出消失会议收到很多一线老师他们的求助这样子的委员那另外呢在8月7号其实我也再次的提出但是在这中间呢其实我也开了两次的记者会 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6457.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6472.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
去呼應就是我們是不是應該要把所有的這個比方說老師們的冤案要來做一個分流這是我提出的當時的建議那當然也非常的高興有聽到這個教育部也聽到了這個現場老師的一些求救的一些聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6472.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6491.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那我想在1月12號的時候其實我們也已經公佈這個刪除匿名檢舉這樣子的事件這樣子的一個規定那到目前為止我們有沒有收到來自校園現場對於這個部分有沒有改善的一些回應那如果沒有什麼時候可以把這些具體的回應可以讓我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6491.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6512.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
是 跟我們報告 1月12號我們修正了有關教育體育經濟不遜的辦法之後有承諾說我們會來收集這半年內現場的狀況 會持續做調整那剛剛也說明了 以目前來講整個城岸進入校舍會議的案子有本來的八成二 現在已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6513.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6534.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
呈案送到那個校舍位只剩兩成二但這部分還是要再持續的精進努力包含剛剛委員這邊我看到建議的安全防護機指引提供老師更好的支持我想這部分都是我們接下來在這半年的一個執行之後有沒有一個比較具體的時程大概什麼時候是學期末之後馬上就會來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6535.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6554.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我們那時候對外承諾就是半年1月10號就到7月份的時候我們就會來把整個一個檢討好 所以7月份可以提出一些檢討那對於所謂的這個冤案怎麼樣恢復老師的名譽這個部分因為它還是屬於在這個你們公布之前這個部分我們怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6555.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6571.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這個部分上次委員會這邊也通過針對於受暫時停聘的老師他的本薪跟學術研究費是可以回補回來的那接下來是不是有更進一步的一個協助措施我們也會再跟現場的老師再做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6572.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6588.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我想這個霸凌零容忍尤其是校園的霸凌我們建立要更及時更安全的一個通報的機制來接觸受傷的孩子尤其是學生當然也希望能夠導致他們偏差的行為再來我希望其實能夠從對立走到對話我想大家要從輕失聲大家都能夠放下防衛心我們要以所謂的共同 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6597.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6624.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
幫助孩子為溝通的這個起點那如何要讓我們的機制變成讓這些認真教學的老師成為他們的後盾那麼捍衛他們的教學尊嚴這個也是非常的重要我想當老師的專業被尊重那麼當家長的焦慮被理解學生的權益被重視我想這才是一個健康安全的教學環境那我們真的要一起來努力好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6625.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6638.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
是謝謝委員次長好謝謝次長好謝謝主席好謝謝請坐也跟郭委員再次說明不好意思因為就是之前有委員就是也沒有簽署 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6639.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6665.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
不服役所以基本上因為上一次已經有開了先例了所以後面就在這部分也希望說郭委員可以提亮我們都希望說教文委員會大家互相幫忙但因為在野黨的委員也有提出法案那因為沒有得到不服役的部分所以也希望開了先例以後可能就會照著這樣子的部分繼續進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6668.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6671.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
一先前的宣告我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6981.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7006.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
好 現在開會請吳佩儀委員進行詢問我請教一步有請教一步這個簡報的封面錯了喔好 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7008.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7024.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
市長前一陣子我們醫美診所有發現竟然在很多的醫美診所裝設了針孔看起來是這個驗物參測器結果原來裡面是針孔攝影機 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7027.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7046.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
引起社會嘩然那很多女性也非常的驚恐就擔心說自己是不是第一個已經有影像被拍到了然後第二個是非常的納悶說既然要裝射箭式器為什麼要把它射射成是這種隱藏式的為什麼要偽裝式的然後呢讓我們更納悶的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7048.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7068.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
後來發現原來在學校裡面校園而且幾乎是同一天傳出了兩起第一個是在北教大另外一起是在輔大那北教大的這一案後來發現說是有外人跑進去學校然後去在女廁所裝設這個針孔攝影機那學校也第一時間馬上就通報了 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7068.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7090.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那後來這個人也有找到大概是兩天內我們警察就查緝到了所以學校的反應速度還算快不過他第一時間還是學生先發現的這個我覺得我們學校的警惕然後都要再更敏銳一點但是輔大的這一案就讓我們更納悶了因為後來發現說輔大的這一個偽裝成 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7094.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7096.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
煙霧偵測器的監視器它是學校自己採購的為什麼學校要去採購這一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7105.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7128.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
隱藏式的監視器呢 這個教育部有沒有去了解是 針對輔大的案子學校目前了解的狀況是他是在建館的那個當下一整批採購的時候就有所以學校確實沒有盡到把關的責任採購了一整批嗎對 在建這一個館的時候他就已經有一起採購進來的採購了多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7131.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7153.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
她這一種偽裝式的監視器假裝是煙霧探測器 結果是監視器他們裝了多少在學校裡我們會要把清查資料再提供給你們到現在還沒查出來嗎有查出來 已經有要求學校拆掉了沒有跟委員報告就是說在上週教育部已經正式發案給各級學校請學校校方要 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7154.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7174.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
針對於校內所有有攝影鏡頭的甚至一些隱密的場所都要進行全面的清查那相關的我們是請學校在兩週內完成清查那我們清查的結果我們是不是也在跟我兩週內對沒錯我今天就是要拜託教育部說因為之前校園傳出偷拍事件所以不是第一起了 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7174.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7196.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
就是外人進去學校裡面裝攝影機甚至高中也有發生過然後也有有一些是有學生甚至學生自己裝攝也都有所以說我要拜託教育部我們也已經要請學校要來盤點清查了對不對兩週內會清查出來好那有清查出來的如果還有這一種偽裝式攝影機我們是要求全部要拆卸 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7197.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7216.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
對 我們都要求學校會同警方然後來拆然後再去看看是不是那未來有沒有可能發生他們學校自己去採購這一種監視器呢我們在給學校警學校清查的同時也有要求學校要針對於未來在擺放的位置 它的外型 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7218.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7234.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這個你們都要去要求這個學校不應該去裝設假裝是煙霧探測器結果是監視器不明白為什麼要這麼做既然不是為了偷拍為什麼要這樣子躲躲藏藏的這個教育部要拜託一下這很重要學生的隱私再來是這個營養午餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7236.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7262.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
在去年討論財化法的時候就是我們有非常多錢從中央現在分配到地方了意思就是說地方政府他可以依照自己的政策需求去編列他的預算那現在台北市呢在這個營養午餐今年就已經宣布說要營養午餐過去我們是說免費的營養午餐是補助給弱勢的孩子現在台北市是等於是免費營養午餐普發了全面的實施那台北市現在財化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7263.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7287.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
修法之後一年我們是台北市是多拿了400多億那他營養午餐全面免費的話一年大概是要花費20多億如果以財政機率來看的話這個財源其實是台北市是付得起的所以我覺得也尊重地方政府這樣的政策那隨之的我看到各縣市很多地方政府也開始跟上跟進說他們也要來做全面的營養午餐的這個免費 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7288.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7312.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那麼因為一方政府過去也在議會嘛通常地方政府會宣布一個政策一定是他們自己評估過裁員就是說他有這個預算一定是有預算才有辦法去宣布尤其是你是發布了不是說我在演繹當中已經發布代表評估過裁員啦所以看起來地方政府應該說他們有這個目前是負擔得起的我們現在目前有哪些縣市是已經在實施全面營養午餐免費的 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7313.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7326.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
根文報告目前22個縣市都已經宣布要實施營養午餐22個全部都宣布了那已經在實施了因為有些是過去本來就免費的啊比如說桃園嘛他本來都在實施本來有10個縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7328.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7342.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
是免費營養午餐但因為在裁判法之後他們一方面他們經費足夠深入委員講的第二個部分也因為要提供更好的福利所以現在22席22席等於就是全國了對 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7343.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7365.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們全國各縣市都已經宣布未來就是我們孩童的學童的營養午餐是免費那這個部分呢地方政府既然有裁員有辦法支出我是希望說教育部我也要拜託你們我們的預算應該要去挹注在其他的現在地方政府沒有裁員的地方或是說不屬於地方政府的管轄例如說今天的學貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7366.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7393.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我也有提案 我覺得學貸就很重要這個學貸就是我們教育部要來去把預算抑制在這個地方幫助學生減輕他的負擔然後例如說這個托育然後例如說我們相關其他的地方政府目前不是每個縣市都已經在宣布的我們教育部要多多來支持所以營養午餐既然免費的地方政府已經有預算我們就不要去跌床架屋好 那最後一點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7394.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7408.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我要提醒因為今天我們也有這個營養午餐法當中有提到飲食教育那最近因為我們台灣的作家楊雙子他奪得到了國際顧客獎的台灣漫遊錄這一本書其實裡面就是以台灣的食物為主題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7409.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7428.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那我想台灣的文學作品跟飲食相關的也很多我們在推飲食教育的時候應該要把人文跟歷史也納進來讓孩子也可以透過食物認識到我們的文化跟歷史的根源這一點我覺得很重要也請你們可以一起來納入好我們會來努力好謝謝教育部謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7438.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7450.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
下一位有請吳世耀委員謝謝有請朱次長有請署長彭署長次長有請署長喂好 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7461.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7489.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
好辛苦次長署長辛苦大家我是非常的遺憾立法院的亂象到現在任期已經過了一半權力分立的原則還是持續的亂了套預算權是行政權立法院是行使對於行政院送出的預算要監督要把關憲法規定的非常清楚預算法也應當看懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7490.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7510.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
所以說立法院不應當一再的用修法的方式來片面加碼預算立法院該做的是是符合憲法符合法規去審查預算才對可是呢下一頁現在的立法院不當立法院了立法院是搶當行政院了 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7512.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7541.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
預算拖延到現在教科文的預算286天羅昭偉所負責的文化部運動部故宮跟國科會都還沒有翻開預算書的第一頁連一筆都還沒有實質審查所以說預算如果不審查但是立委卻另一方面來增加政府預算的支出違反憲法違反預算法違反財政紀律法這些法規我們已經講了兩年多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7542.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7570.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以立法院為什麼不審預算然後一再的在提跟預算加碼相關的法案就算通過了沒有預算怎麼執行呢我真的是要再一次來抗議這樣子的一個權力分立被亂了套的亂象夏業我更要反對昭偉排案的差別待遇今天針對學貸三法 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7571.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7589.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
民進黨吳思瑤、郭育晴、吳立華、吳佩奕、張雅玲、陳培宇委員所提出來的版本因為仍在復一期所以沒有辦法列案交委讀後國民黨的版本就丟包了這些民進黨委員的版本學貸三法有這麼急嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7591.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7603.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
搶著今天列案把其他的版本丟包了而且今天要逐條逐條如果通過了違憲的版本然後我們民進黨的版本最終 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7604.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7619.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
不見天日我們連搶救的機會都沒有我再說一次這些法案重要但有比預算重要嗎應當先審預算而不是搶牌法案我還是要再一次強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7621.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7637.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
回到今天的版本学贷三法行政部门扩大照顾学生帮助学习减负担我们已经覆盖率达到52%的大专生受惠了对不对我们的学杂费减免每年投入的国家预算280亿 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7639.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7654.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
在就學貸款的部分賴總統宣示的新的方案在學期間免息還款的寬延期限延長到畢業後兩年還款的利率也再降一趴每年增加的預算是15億 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7656.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7672.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
所以说这个280亿跟15亿是整体行政院教育部在审着国家的财政纪律政府做得到政府能做政府愿意做政府行有余力行政权就可以上路我们编预算 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7673.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7688.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
然後有需要修法嗎次長我們像之前的這個學長費減免高中職學費全免有需要修法嗎這個部分我們都是用計劃方案或是根據既有的授權辦法就可以支持是 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7689.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7718.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
所以說行政權跟立法權的分工非常清楚行政院為了擴大照顧學生擴大照顧弱勢他編列預算修正相關的辦法法規就可以執行而不是立法院在這裡搶功勞在這裡要割到尾在這裡要無視財政紀律一再的違憲加碼下一頁我們來看看今天提出來這些版本我要強調民進黨委員的版本都被丟包 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7719.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7743.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
國民黨委員提出來的要加碼再加碼家庭所得淨額適用率稅率12%的就要免納學費家庭所得最後五等分最低20%就要免納學費加總起來上面的是要每年增加400億的國家預算下面這個五等分要另外增加100億的國家預算加起來就要再膨脹500億的國家預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7746.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7772.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
依據財政紀律法依據預算法依據憲法立委是不可以增加政府支出除非你找到合理的籌措裁員而且要跟行政部門來商議這500億教育部因為才化法我們已經少了900多億的預算了一年怎麼在籌措呢所以我認為這些東西我真的不樂見立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7775.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7790.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
說我們要擴大照顧學生很好我們都支持可是讓行政部門在行政部門的權限裡頭去做啊一再的修法加碼加碼立委不需要去籌措預算立委只需要這樣子來開支票 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7791.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7818.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我實在不能接受啊下一頁所以說支持學生的權益各黨都一致我要再次強調民進黨立委的版本不應當被丟包我們該做的是進行原則性的修法授權行政部門去執行在學貸三法的部分大學法35條增列第三項政府因依學生家庭所得或其他的經濟狀況提供經濟不利 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7820.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7844.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
處境學生助學措施及執行額度條件權利義務由教育部定制高級中等教育法跟專科學校法亦然民進黨委員的版本就是給予一個母法的授權原則性的規範及執行的條件額度權利義務授權教育部門來進行你們是不是比較同意這樣子的作為啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7845.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7868.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
是謝謝委員確實如果以就學貸款來講目前的三個法令本來就有一個授權辦法所以就過去20年教育部我們就做了很多都是這樣做嘛來做所以我們期待如果有這樣的空間我就舉一個例子我們最早的學貸是你畢業後一年就要開始還款了然後我們在民國95年有特別去規定如果你的月收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7869.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7885.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
沒有超過三萬塊你可以都不要還最多可以三年就是隨著整個經濟的發展跟學生青年的負荷我們現在已經變成說你月薪在五萬塊以下你都可以來申請連本金你都不用還所以我們都在捨著學生的需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7886.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7912.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
减轻学生的负担不管是在学期间或是他出出社会缓缓的那个压力所以行政权限该做的而且有财政的能力的权衡我们一定做做到能做的极致但立法委员该做的就是原则性的修法授权行政部门去合理执行而如果认为行政部门执行的不到位立法委员可以用的工具是什么就是省预算啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7913.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7924.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我在省預算的時候 認為你這項高教師做得不夠好 國教署做得不正確我可以用省預算的時候提出我的把關 不是嗎但是現在預算不省啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7926.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7937.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
在下面一个营养午餐我很快的结束营养午餐下一个22个县市全面宣布营养午餐分两类第一类是在财化法还没修正的时候 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7956.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7980.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
才化法修正之后因为中央扩大了以台北市每年增加给台北市政府多拿了460亿对不起470亿新北可以每年多拿432亿所以地方政府认为在才化法新修之后他行有余力另外的12个县市也全面宣布营养午餐免费 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7980.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7998.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
這告訴我們省著財政狀況是重要的不管是中央或地方地方自己辦得到地方首長負責任他願意用地方的財力去買單營養午餐這就是現在的政策進行是嗎但是現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7999.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8021.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我看到委員又要修法把地方自己能夠負擔自己願意自行買單的 卻要透過修法要強加又要中央去搶單這又不合理如果說這個營養午餐修法又被這樣片面增加了立法就是行政部門的支出會增加多少億啊每年 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8024.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8044.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
138億嘛我們原本三張EQ每年願意給地方74億現在反過來財化法下放了預算之後再搭配在議黨委員提出的版本又違憲又違反預算法又違反財政紀律法又將把中央的教育部門每年要再增加138億的預算所以下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8051.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8079.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
財化法挖空了中央財源中央已經每年少了4165億地方可以增加4000多億的預算如果我要再一次提醒今天的三個就是說今天的學貸三法跟營養午餐法營養午餐法會增加中央138億然後學貸會增加400億加100億是500億所以今天的這個法律如果在立法院又倉促的 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8081.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8102.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
修正通過了就今天教育委員會又會增加教育部門行政部門一年638億的預算支出很可觀很可怕教育部今年的預算已經少了多少呢教育部本部因為才化法的後遺症下一頁今年已經減少了892億的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8106.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8115.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
如果今天一天學貸三法加上營養五三法又要中央買單立委強行片面增加政府預算支出又會增加638億一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8118.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8146.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
國家會垮欸財政紀律不復存在欸這是嚴肅的課題教育部門勇敢的表達你們的立場照顧學生協助地方我們每一天都在做我也要請在野黨的委員三思再三思今天一旦逐條審查通過又要增加638億的教育部門的支出錢在哪裡次長錢在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8148.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8174.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我們期待可以透過我們現在的執法讓步裡面可以橫著財政跟學生需求來照顧精準的照顧到有需要的學生所以立委不要為加碼而加碼立委當好立法院的工作立法院不要搶當行政院國家的財政這樣子真的會整個崩壞財政制度638億今天的 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8177.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8202.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
四個法案我真的覺得大家三思再三思謝謝好謝謝委員請坐也跟吳世耀委員特別報告我們昨天易思路已經確定6月11開始我們今天中午就結案收件我想吳世耀委員也要先確認一下易思路的內容可能不太清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8203.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8212.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那 請問一下那個吳世耀委員齁黃偉哲市長 你有提到你當年地方會議18歲市長今天都不排分你會照顧黃偉哲請不要在這裡每一天都要聽您過當的評論每一個立委的質詢請尊重每個立委的質詢權好嗎請您趕快排審預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8231.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8237.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我們運動部文化部故宮國科會的預算預算書第一頁都還沒有翻開預算書一筆都沒有通過請停止評論每一個立委的質詢昨天陳培宇委員也向您抗議過了到此為止錄了委員請不要稍微尊重每個委員好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8254.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8256.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這個禮拜我也當召委下個禮拜我也當召委在一個台式針對您的召委任務的換言如果昨天不需要處理你的電競基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8270.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8282.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
不用排學財法跟雅虎財法我們的所有預算都可以完成審查好夠了謝謝張偉趕快排審預算預算就是民生人民在等預算人民在等預算預算拖了286天不要再拖預算尤其教科文預算是重中之重我再次懇請 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8298.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8301.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我懇請 我懇求 我懇求在野黨的委員 摩廷委 招委請照顧學生 請照顧弱勢請照顧運動權 請照顧文化權請照顧我們國科會的科技預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8318.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8320.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
請讓我們的預算可以審查預算已經拖了286天年已經過半了到底還要拖多久小委如果您有時間在這裡每一個委員的質詢您都要評論把時間省下來我們審預算好嗎把時間省下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8343.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8370.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
國家要有預算 人民要有預算希望所有的學生能夠看到我們今天正視你們的問題所以拜託吳世耀委員真的要拜託您不要誤會那對於吳世耀委員不斷的在說我們把他們的法案丟包我們也希望吳世耀委員不要兩套標準上次在野黨的委員有提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8372.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8398.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
相關的法案你們也不附議不願意去簽所以丟包了其他的委員所以作為召委我們一定要非常公正既然民進黨已經開了先例先不簽署別人的不附議所以我想我們就維持民進黨所開出的標準繼續保持這樣子的一個態度以上跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8400.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8419.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
非常可惜委員不願意聽我們的分享那一貫的就是不斷的雙套標準下面有請羅廷偉委員來做質詢我們請羅志祥委員代理召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8430.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8431.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
請羅廷偉委員詢答有請次長有請次長有請署長署長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8444.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8459.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好 次長首先先跟你請教一下行政院已經核定調高教師一到七節的終點費標準我們不斷一直在倡議希望能夠幫老師爭取更多權益但是課後以及寒暑假並未同步調整導致課內的終點費調高以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8461.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8475.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
出現了我們現在學習輔助的終點費偏低老師紛紛呼應我們也講了很多個月很多老師不斷一直在私底下請我們繼續追蹤請問這件事情什麼時候要辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8477.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8494.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
跟委員報告因為課後的部分會涉及到家長的負擔所以我們先前也有跟地方家長這邊有做一些討論但目前還沒有進一步的共識什麼時候可以去做進一步的共識探討因為老師的權益也很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8495.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8521.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
對 老師的權益非常重要這樣的一個付出我們也看到他很努力所以我們大概在6月9號開過第一次跟縣市政府的會議那公式度還需要再凝聚那我們7月還會再開一次那我們在這個暑假前會把縣市政府甚至在地的家長的意見都策整完備之後看看大家有更公式的方式來處理到有具體的時間表嗎7月會再開第二次 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8522.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8545.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
7月加速進行拜託好不好接下來要跟我們兩位特別來拜託我們來重視這個相關的不管是校事會議校園霸凌我覺得師對生 生對師綜合的相關案件都應該要予以尊重公平處理我們先來看PTT |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8547.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8573.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我們看到有知名的網紅所貼出的這一個個案女老師被戳我們的屁股那反被逼離職那我們可以看到這一個裡面的內容訪談五位同班學生一致描述行為人是惡意對不起故意戳老師訪談五位同學學生中有三位提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8575.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8602.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
被行為人有些問旁邊的同學要不要戳老師眾上所述調查小組認為即使被行為人是故意戳行為人的屁股甚至是直接啦這個我就不念了身為老師還是不應該有傷害學生的行為對於這個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8605.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8627.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我覺得老師非常無奈啊那你怎麼看 市長是 跟我們報告 因為這是113年的案子所以我們會請那個 因為宜蘭縣政府這邊來處理但是在今年115年1月修正我們的交易體育辦法之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8628.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8649.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
對於如果在校事會的決議有不當的主管機關是可以退回學校去重啟那你有沒有覺得不當你有沒有覺得不當這個部分我想因為這個審議結果你覺得合理嗎對這部分要由主管機關他們可能要再去做一些審酌跟重新那這個你有沒有覺得他應該重新再做一個評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8650.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8674.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
如果以我因為這個案Case這個個案我沒有去看到他詳細的案子但如果以目前的這個部分來看確實主管機關有在審酌的必要我想這個部分我們都要好好的重視剛剛有委員提到的鐵拳教育到現在我們看到許多的個案不斷的被放在網路上供大家來檢視我們的校園到底怎麼了 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8675.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8698.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我也要來讓你看看我們不要只看鐵拳教育這樣子的一個韓劇我們來看真實各個國家有沒有發生類似的問題他們怎麼來解決我們來看下一個PDT台灣跟韓國我想我們都有一個非常高相似度的就是家長的投訴機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8700.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8716.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我們當然要給他們一個投訴機制但是有沒有去了解到是不是有失控是不是有失公允那造成防禦性的教學蔓延教師的心理健康惡化所以韓國在九年內 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8718.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8739.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
網路的資料是寫一萬一千六百多名的教師遭家長以虐童的名義來做檢舉最終引爆2023年有教師自殺事件促使立法回應那台灣的狀況我想不用我再多述了台灣的狀況近期也是非常的相似那我們看下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8740.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8761.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
在2023年他們的修法的內容當中我們可以看到他們韓國修法的核心內容包括明文規定家長尊重教師的教育指導義務賦予校長處理家長投訴的責任教師正當生活指導排除 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8762.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8790.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
兒童福利法部分禁止行為的適用教師遭虐童檢舉時禁止無正當理由的停職但是教育需立即的迅速表達意見家長惡意投訴妨礙公務罪 誣告罪等納入侵害教育生活相關的活動行為強化校長與教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8791.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8816.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
他的应对机制扩大受害教师的保护跟复原资源我们上次有教师法三读通过将停聘还他清白以后给他本俸研究假期但是我们看到其他的修法内容有没有什么我们可以做的我们可以参考的 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8817.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8840.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那您覺得呢韓國的這個案例謝謝文指導我們在113年針對教師管教這個部分有一個注意事項裡面已經有針對說老師對於在教室發生一些不法或是破壞的行為他是可以採取一些必要的手段而且這些手段不會造成他因此受到處罰有這樣的主缺的事有 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8841.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8860.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我想這個部分的做法也跟韓國的這個方向是類似的但是那個就看起來就是一個指引提醒那有沒有辦法入法甚至有沒有機會在未來能夠更加完善這個我們是不是應該參考各個鄰近國家他們的做法我們來保護老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8862.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8878.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我也在這段時間不斷的在探尋很多的家長團體也好教師團體也好我們不斷的了解他們意見其實我們也看到許多的家長在反應他們支持持續的修正能夠讓公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8880.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8891.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這個部分能夠繼續的在這個校園的過程當中能夠真正的落實所以他們並不是也全然的接受現階段的校事會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8893.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8920.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
所以我要再一次詢問你們一直在講你們在滾動式修正有沒有具體的修正版本是還有公佈期程是跟我們報告因為在今年1月公佈之後我們有說有半年時間我知道那我們在7月份的時候會針對我們半年這半年以來大概具體幾號我們在7月中以前7月中會有一個分析檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8922.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8934.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
好七月中我是希望說這個分析檢討真的要讓我們都知道一下那有沒有朝向更進一步怎麼樣的一個修正比如說現階段教師還是對於匿名檢舉這個部分還是很有意見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8936.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8961.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
匿名檢舉能不能夠有更公平的一個做法這部分可以回應一下嗎好 謝謝我正如剛剛委員提點的我們接下來也會針對剛剛提到在教師管教的部分會有一些更明確是不是可以參考委員剛剛提示的對啊 那是剛剛提示你說另外要參考的部分嘛我說校事會議的部分你們要朝向哪裡修正可不可以跟大家先預告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8963.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8981.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
匿名檢舉的部分你們會修正嗎現在已經刪除匿名檢舉是不受理的也分流了我聽到教師第一線的回饋教師團體還是說他們還是實際有匿名檢舉的狀況所以是不是溝通上有誤解還是你的政策並沒有顯得很完善 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8981.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9011.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我想我們會跟地方政府收集相關成案的狀況因為上次也有委員提到嘛小朋友在網路上教大家看老師不爽可以就是隨便檢舉他性品相關的可是這個部分的網路檢舉的方式也還是有匿名的狀況啊那這個部分到底有沒有去修正可不可以朝這個方向七月的時候能夠有這樣更具體的我們一併再拉到我們的檢討分析裡面我想老師的身心健康的權益保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9012.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9028.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
家庭教育的加強是離線權力能夠更落實能夠有一個指引甚至入法行政減量能不能入法這個部分您的態度是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9029.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9055.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
跟我們報告就是說法規面作用法基本上大概都是希望讓他有些彈性來做調整所以要不要入法這個事情我們可以來評估研議我希望你們要好好的具體的去研議那是不是能夠隨著這一段時間到7月15的時候能夠有一個研議報告讓我們知道一下好不好那7月15我們想知道你們的狀況好不好那另外我想請問一下署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9057.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9083.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
署長在這一次我們教育委員會到日本考察我必須坦白講你有幾個舉動我很感動我看著你跟我們一起蹲在那邊近距離的接觸孩童去了解他們的教學過程然後不斷的在做筆記我在旁邊看我覺得我覺得真的是非常的動人 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9084.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9107.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我也一直不斷的跟所有委員分享其實你是蠻認真第二其實剛好我們在享受校園營養午餐的時候我跟你分配在同一組我不知道你還記得嗎我就坐在你後面我看著你不斷的在透過翻譯軟體跟孩子詢問除了營養午餐之外你還記得你問一題嗎你問上課時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9111.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9132.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
幾點上課放學的時間透過去訪談這些日本孩子去了解我們的教學環境的差異其實我也都在觀察因為我們更希望你有別於立法委員的重要性你是行政權的代表第一線去了解執行的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9133.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9146.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那我也想問你啊那你覺得營養午餐的部分實際跟日本執行的政策當中就我所了解跟我們之前所接觸到的資料不太一樣那你覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9147.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9168.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
我們看了兩種形態哪一種是在一個小學它是用傳統我們聽的比較多的叫給食中心另外我們是到東京的一個特別區它有23個特別區是用區裡面的各校但它不是給食中心是各校 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9169.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9194.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
自己来供应的这个就跟我们一般文献上比较少谈到以为日本绝大多数或是比较多是解实中心所以到实地之后发现还是有很多学校如我们也是学校自办接着即便是解实中心它怎么运作解实中心的相关编制也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9195.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9215.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
食安管理也好或是小朋友實際在吃的倒數餐的倒數也好以及小朋友實際在教室內的飲食教育也好這些大概實際看了之後跟我們文獻所直接看到的會有一些相對照現場的實際情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9218.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9241.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
所以你覺得有差距嗎過往的資料跟現場狀況有差距嗎即便現場看到的跟過往做個對照也可以看到過往很多團體去縣市自己去那麼他們可能會看到自己的角度也許縣市的角色那我們去會看到縣市的角色學校的角色以及甚至文部省的角色等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9242.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9254.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
所以我觉得实际看到能够更加的有所了解在执行状况那另外我们在看AI教育ICT教育的时候其实我们对于他们的师生比 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9255.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9274.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
你覺得呢?是,那天看到的是一個五年級的班的數學教育你分享他自己的資料一下,好不好?我們也請教他,他是全年級分組教學還是班內分組教學?那麼經過比較現場的了解、釐清是班內的三組分組教學 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9275.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9301.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那麼這三類的分組教學我們也跟他探討那麼教材怎麼樣的一個配置有沒有音樂學生的個別化做不同的像我們有AI時的個別化指導等等也做了一些現場的互動探討市長一個班將近20位啦是分成三組三組平均大概六個小朋友左右六到七個 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9303.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9323.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
六到七個小朋友 面對兩個老師一個主要 一個輔導還有一個大學的 學師 師 師 師系生幫忙來做輔助協助這個師生比 我們也嚇一跳幾乎是1比2 1比3 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9325.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9354.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
當然他們覺得世性教育然後分級甚至是能夠高強度的關心對政來下藥甚至是因材施教我覺得這個都是我們帶行政權帶國教署署長去看我們可以有所加強的當然能不能達到1比2 1比3對我們來說有一大很大的差距啦但是他們為什麼這麼的重視教育我覺得我們實際去看嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9355.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9362.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
所以我也希望說署長包括不管是AICT我們看到第一線的狀況然後我們也去拜訪私校 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9364.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9386.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
剛剛那個是不是私校也拜訪了私校那還有我們營養午餐的一個辦法是不是有機會你也要如實的跟不管部長次長來轉達跟過往我們所看到的文獻我之前看到的文獻其實基本上也都是疫情前的有一段距離的那我們希望實際的教學 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9388.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9410.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
場域所遇到他們的狀況能夠如實的來跟次長部長來反應尤其原本張料萬間次長要跟我們去但是他因故有請假這部分希望你能夠如實的轉達讓他們知道我們在營養午餐的推進上包括我們一直在講的營養師的制度他們的營養師是不是也跟我們不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9412.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9438.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
就是說原來我們認為日本可能有依法用550比1這類現場了解比例上倒還是有彈性但是委員可能趙偉想要講到的是營養教師這一塊那麼營養教師他有雙證那因此他進行營養業務時他因為還有教師的那個license因此他在營養教育上他是有這個權利的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9440.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9457.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
但營養教育他不是營養師喔他只是另外一個證書而已然後獲得營養教育的一個工作權利的授予那小朋友也多鼓勵他們吃家長無法提供的飲食內容比如說他們就很堅持希望能夠提供魚類 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9458.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9472.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
因為學生回到家不太會攝取魚類那他們為了提供魚類就會有魚刺的問題他們還特別教國小低年級小朋友要如何食用秋刀魚然後拍攝影片教學 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9474.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9489.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
所以這個部分都是我們教學環境上我們在做食農教育也好我們在做飲食禮儀的介紹也好這都是值得我們參考的我想當下我也跟署長講署長這個我也要希望你現場能夠承諾我我們不斷的在講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9490.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9508.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
在食用營養午餐的前面可不可以做一個簡單的飲食教育我們今天攝取多少蛋白今天所吃的營養午餐他的故事他的原產地在哪裡能夠做基本的廣播 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9509.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9528.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
分享或者是同學上台講一下一分鐘用餐讓孩子知道他平常吃的東西的內容學生也會回到家裡跟家長分享家長也會安心營養午餐的內容他大概知道這個不用花到預算那我們可不可以做署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9530.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9559.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這因為委員講了之後我們也去思考它的運作的可行性這會涉及到22縣市跟9萬個班那我們再看看怎麼樣可以讓老師在行政不必加量這個我要強調不要找老師所以我們看到日本的狀況他們是有廣播那廣播的聲音你一聽也知道是小朋友再來當然還有一個部分班長或者是體育股長他們小朋友上台分享 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9559.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9582.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
這也是訓練講話的機會嘛當然最直接的也可以所謂的外散業者來錄音廣播內容然後來播放嘛這個也都不用去麻煩老師啊所以我覺得這個沒有能力的問題也沒有所謂的預算的問題我們看如何落實所以在這一次我們看到日本實際操作的狀況我也希望我們要有所改變可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9584.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9609.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
謝謝委員我們現在整理報告中會讓委員知道說有一些經過探訪之後詳細了解之後的改變那當然也一定會跟副市長做完整的說明一個月內給我相關資料可以嗎沒有問題一個月是沒有問題因為羅志祥委員也有參加我覺得大家都感覺非常有意義也希望說實際帶回來我們有所改變好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9626.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9652.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
好 謝謝 我們下一位有請羅志祥委員有請彭署長跟朱次長謝謝次長委員好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9654.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9668.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我想先請教署長在這邊我覺得我必須幫我們的召委羅廷偉幫他還一個公道我先講幾件事情我想請問我們次長你知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9670.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9698.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
立法院各委員會齁其實在會期當中考察是很平常的事情吧對不對是沒錯嘛有分過出國考察國內考察都有嘛對不對那不管是哪一個政黨擔任召委考察都是有的國內的也有這個出國的也有那作為立法政策形成你第一個你先要做實地的了解包括國內的很多考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9698.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9722.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
你也包括要做其他國家的經驗的所謂的一個探求所以就有國際的部分那我今天真的非常非常遺憾真的非常遺憾羅廷偉召委安排到日本的營養午餐的考察我們的非常感謝我們的署長也有一起參與這個考察收獲勝風待會我會一一來講收獲勝風 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9729.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9755.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
但是卻在我們民進黨委員的攻擊之下變成薪水小偷第一件事我就要說請問那個我想請問次長或署長這個日本的考察有拿到教育部的經費嗎用教育部的公費來出國嗎 有沒有沒有嘛 對不對立法院的也沒有羅廷偉 昭偉在 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9756.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9782.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
公布今天調查立委的到日本考察的這個調查表第一張發出去上面就寫所有的經費請委員治理請委員自行負擔的經費包括機票住宿甚至我相信署長您知道我們到日本去吃跟小朋友併桌吃的營養午餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9784.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9810.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
請問我們吃的營養午餐誰出的錢也是立委自己出的錢啊羅廷偉召委還堅持要付費勒堅持要付費說抱歉這個是我們到人家學校吃的就按照他們的收費標準我們所有委員就要出錢就要付費做到這個程度民進黨開記者會說這用公費考察薪水小偷 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9811.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9838.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我想請教民進黨要不要道歉啊我先不講出國考察民進黨也有啦拿公費的都有啦民進黨不要跟我講說你沒有拿公費出國考察過你國內考察國外考察都有拿公費的也都有結果羅廷輝委員從出發第一刻跟你講這一場是自費自費去考察結果民進黨竟然可以開記者會雙標到這種程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9841.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9867.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我這邊必須還給羅廷偉召為一個公道那接下來我就要講 我想請署長我必須說啦 這次去我真的對署長我真的是非常的感謝也表示崇高的敬意因為整個過程我們看在眼裡你非常認真在向日本來取經日本的營養午餐是專法吧 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9869.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9896.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
他們實施了非常久嘛2、30年以上了對不對有夠參考的價值1954、1968所以他們是最早來做營養午餐專法的那第二個我們在實際考察過程當中我有幾樣東西我印象很深刻啦就剛剛羅廷惠委員也講到了我們有去跟日本的小學生一起吃營養午餐吃營養午餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9899.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9924.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我想問一件事,有一件事我印象很深刻署長印象很深刻請問我們台灣的營養午餐通常是幾菜幾湯幾主食原則上三菜一湯,有時候有一水果邊鄉地區還有可能的點心牛奶要看情況嘛,對不對那我想請問你去日本他幾菜幾湯,我們這次去幾菜幾湯 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9925.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9950.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
還有一菜一湯然後有一個牛奶對一湯一湯然後那天剛好有水果他說一年大概兩次水果嘛對不對然後剛好市數比較少市數比較少那我要特別講就是說這就是當然我們有在現場問為什麼他們的所謂的那個菜的種相品相這麼少他怎麼回答我們你還記得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9951.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9975.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這一點大概個別學校回答的比較不一樣當然他們從營養營養的均衡跟適當的食量等等那因為我個人看其實他那一瓶牛奶也是佔的餐費啦是沒錯事實上我的印象很深刻是什麼他們在做所謂的那個營養午餐的滿意度的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9977.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9999.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
在州立區的調查幾乎是92、93%的學生都是滿意的我現在蘇董你也看到我們去那我至少我做的那一班我們是分開的那一班我有特別觀察小朋友是吃得乾乾淨淨的耶所有的飯跟菜全部吃光光啊然後我也直接問他們好不好吃他們就當場跟我講很好吃所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10000.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10010.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我看到我們從日本的還有剛有講秋刀魚的影片他們在每個飲食他們做一些影片教小朋友幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10010.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10032.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
教小朋友什麼?用影片教小朋友幹嘛?什麼撥刺啦讓他在整個食的過程享受到魚肉的鮮美但是不會擔心到那個受到刺的這個影響做了以後效果是什麼?這個滿意度也蠻高的小朋友也是真的可以因為影片而真的享受到魚肉的這個食用的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10032.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10058.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
還有一個重點他們的廚餘就變少了相對的就會變少因為小朋友知道怎麼吃魚怎麼把魚翅挑出來所以就不會留下太多的魚肉在廚餘裡面為什麼從這些細節開始講我就要講今天我去日本考察營養午餐我特別感受到一個很強烈的東西是日本的營養午餐它不是單純把它當成所謂的社會福利或是照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10059.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10072.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
他把它當成幾個重點第一個飲食教育對不對第二個健康教育特別倡導說糖尿病要從小學的營養午餐開始就教起就是要從飲食當中來去防治各種慢性病 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10075.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10094.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
這次的考察我們幾乎是從早然後到晚就在不斷的再去跟日本的各個單位來交流也包括數學教育啦也包括說今天營養午餐資訊教育都有這是一個非常有意義的一個國外的考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10095.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10123.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那我就覺得說今天自己受益甚豐所以我必須在這邊也要透過這個質詢來告訴大家我們台灣既然要討論營養午餐的專法那當然要跟今天營養午餐法已經行之有年的日本來去參考他們立法的經驗這絕對是今天有一個有品質立法應該做的事情這我必須給羅廷偉委員一個還他一個公道那下一個我想請教一下我們的次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10125.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10151.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
如果大人害怕小孩這世界就完蛋了請問這句話出處你知道是哪裡嗎鐵拳教育大隊鐵拳教育我剛剛看質詢說你沒有看鐵拳教育嘛因為要10個小時不好意思我會抽空來看沒有你要不要看我覺得這一點是尊重次長的判斷但我要跟你講就是說基本上我們現在老師有很多恐懼你知道吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10153.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10181.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
有很多恐懼啊恐懼所謂的濫訴恐懼所謂的濫用檢舉恐懼網報恐懼校內的一些霸凌恐懼一些所謂的少年犯運用所謂的少年保護來去欺壓學生當老師恐懼教育環境的時候市長你覺得受害者是老師而已嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10183.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10211.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
是嗎不管是老師或學生如果校園讓親師生都感到恐懼這是我們必須要很嚴肅面對的問題沒錯 我告訴你多大老師都恐懼教育現場環境這個世界就完了為什麼受害的不只是老師受害的包括學生的受教權受害的是今天老師如果沒有辦法好好教育的話國家也不會有未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10212.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10239.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
為什麼今天雖然次長沒有看過鐵拳教育裡面當然有很多的戲劇化的手法那是另外的問題但是它為什麼引起這麼大的共鳴次長你知道嗎 為什麼我是有看到一些相關的評論主要是這某種程度是來自於教育現場一些觀察跟反應就是這個部分可能切合現在他們的經驗是的 我跟次長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10241.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10263.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
裡面幾乎完完全全大家沒有任何陌生全部發生在教育現場不只南韓獨有 台灣也是啊其中一集講國會議員的兒子仗著父親的勢力霸凌學校同學那也有少年犯仗著法律的保護在校園橫行霸道 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10264.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10292.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
公然挑釁 還傷害 二度傷害被害者家屬很多人看到這就想到2023年新北校園的戈井案啊毒品現在侵入校園的嚴重性與日俱增大家看到裡面所有的一些隱具的情節跟教育現場幾乎是一模一樣這才會產生強大的共鳴我再講一集我覺得更是幾乎百分之百命中 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10294.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10321.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
他有一集講恐龍家長如何濫用檢舉制度長期壓迫老師市長你知道這在台灣也發生過一模一樣的事吧您知道吧有看到有類似的評論跟建議不是類似的評論跟建議啊市長你是教育部的官員你是學生的後盾你是老師的後盾你是教育現場必須走出這種所謂惡質霸凌之風 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10323.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10352.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
的一個最強大的後盾媒體有報導有一位教學20年在台南市國中任教的謝信老師2024年4月因為關心學生的學習狀況在聯絡簿上寫下數學是不是練習較少寫下這句話引發家長強烈反彈家長指控老師的一句話會摧毀孩子的生命 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10355.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10378.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
然後呢投訴到教育局接著擴大成40多項投訴連他午休時提醒學生不要關燈寫練習卷保護眼睛也變成說是侵害學生的權益甚至三四年前的臉書貼文都被翻出來檢舉2024年8月校士會議調查結果認定40多項投訴均無違規 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10385.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10411.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
家長還是持續啊持續繼續爛訴啊然後要求逐項說明投訴為什麼不成立在調查過程有無瑕疵在沒有新市政的情況之下同年12月原本調查沒有任何違規的報告改成四項成立老師難以接受問為什麼結果不同就調查委員跟他講啊你被投訴這麼多項如果一項都沒有成立家長會覺得我們只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10413.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10415.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
在幹嘛暴斃老師啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10417.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10446.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
因此還被學校寄身借一次 考積打一等 考積獎金減半然後被列為追蹤名單 撰寫五千字報告 參加四小時研習最後訴願成功 經歷八個月的投訴調查四個月的考核會審查 到十個月的訴訟兩年漫長程序 折磨到身心俱疲最後他已經不知該如何重返校園了 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10449.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10476.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這位老師他撐過了這場磨難但是不像劇中的老師他今天幾乎撐不下去為什麼幾乎一模一樣如果你去看那一集你會發現一模一樣完全一樣他為什麼形成強大的共鳴就是現在大家擔憂的是我們教育現場對老師而言已經是惡化到今天執教非常困難了 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10478.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10490.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
在這種情況之下我們教育部非常有責任要去解決這個問題那為什麼要舉這個例子我要告訴現在校事會議就是有爛輸的情況沒錯吧就是有些爛輸的情況吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10496.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10524.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
所以說我們在今年1月也針對校事會議也針對匿名檢舉針對分流針對於相關的資訊輔助人的部分我們都有做了調整也期待說在這半年我們收整現場的一些狀況之後在今年7月中能夠再進行整個檢討分析看是不是要能夠再進一步精進是不是還有什麼不足的部分可以用來讓整個一個校事會議制度能夠更完整我要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10526.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10551.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
次長說啊 校事會議 今天存廢是一件事改革是非常必要的我們就很多老師在教育現場不堪霸凌 不堪濫訴就選擇走上我們最不樂見的路這樣的去對老師的這種欺壓我說過傷害的不是老師而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10553.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10580.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
傷害是整個教育現場跟環境傷害是學生的受教訓傷害是國家的未來所以為什麼今天要嚴肅來討論這件事情希望教育部今天真的要肩膀扛起來把我們老師扛起來不要讓老師獨自承受這樣一個黑暗的霸凌以上 謝謝是 謝謝委員長謝謝羅志祥委員謝謝謝謝次長謝謝署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10585.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10602.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
下面有請蔡春秋委員謝謝主席好有請次長有請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10608.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10624.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
委員好次長好本席今天要請教次長在教育部到底是怎麼樣來思考我們大學生的一個住宿的一個問題教育部過去曾經也提出很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10625.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10648.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
多次提出計劃先是改善學生住宿的一個決心其實我也相信教育部是真的有在做但是我是覺得成效不彰所以次長你認為教育部應該要做出哪一些改善的成果呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10649.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10671.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
是 根委報告在宿舍部分我們事實上在新宿舍運動是有四個做法第一個做法當然是改善目前那個宿舍在一些公共空間能夠讓學生能夠有更多的一些交流然後的一個環境那第二個部分是我們也鼓勵學校來興建 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10672.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10690.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
或是整建新的宿舍這塊我們是提供利息的補貼第三個部分我們也結合在校外也是學校可能要新建新的宿舍不容易如果在校外可以找到合適的地點我們來補助它相關的一些那個住宿的一個補助最後就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10691.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10707.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
如果學生不管他是在校外在住宿的時候租金補貼這會由內政部300億的租金補貼來進行如果是住校內宿舍會由教育部我們每個月補助5000然後針對低收中低收是補助7000來協助學生減輕住宿的負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10710.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10723.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那在112年監察院有指出來教育部推動新的宿舍計畫的時候有沒有把校外租屋的一個學生宿納入盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10725.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10753.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那導致呢實際的一個住宿的一個需求被低估了那也指出了部分的學校的宿舍呢其實它的一個船位是很嚴重的一個切口並沒有參與這樣的一個計畫那校外先辦了一個社會學生社會住宅還有空船的一個補助成效不彰這是然後114人的監察院公告調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10754.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10783.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
的一個報告案件的一個狀態已經結案那麼請問教育部有提出哪一些的一個改善的一個方案好 根文報告就是說針對於校外能夠去找合宜的空間作為學生的社會住宅這個部分確實會遇到一個兩難的問題就是說如果這個位置這個空間很近房東他自己對外住就可以他其實不需要跟學校合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10784.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10803.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那會跟學校合作的可能那個地點就遠了一些那對於學生要住宿的意願就會比較低所以針對這個問題我們也非常感謝監察院也希望下一步我們來做精進所以這個部分我們現在有在跟大學在談就是說他如果能夠去找到我們多給大學一些籌碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10804.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10831.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
給他多一些經費的補助或是空床的補貼然後透過一些比如說學校的任居服務讓他在交通方面那甚至在那個宿舍裡面有一些好的教學或是一些那個社群的公共空間的活動來吸引學生願意把那邊當成是一個大家住宿的地點這些都是我們現在在提但是我也必須跟委員報告我們當時的剛剛講的有事之鑑來講最 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10833.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10860.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我們的主力大概是放到既有校舍的一個公共空間的調整目前大概有四分之一學校已經在調整中但是問題就是說現在校舍都是有限嘛所以有很多學生他必須要到外面去租屋嘛那我們就是要盡量來協助租屋的一個距離呢能夠盡量跟學校就是能夠靠近縮短這個交通的一個交通的一個時間嘛交通越近那對於學生的一個學習也 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10862.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10881.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
就是它的一個產生的一個問題呢就會更少嘛讓他們沒有後顧之憂啊這個是我們教育部我們必須要來努力的嘛對 謝委員知道這塊我們在校外的任居服務學校他也會去定期的去了解周邊有些合理的好的房東好的地點透過資訊分享給學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10883.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10891.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
讓他可以找到一個更好的校外住宿的房間我們希望能夠多多的來盤點最後我要來問就是說新宿舍的一個計畫一個辦理的情形截至目前在114年12月的一個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10901.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10921.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
有一些學校它是有申請有一些學校它是在申請當中或者是輔導當中那沒有參加的學校也有將近46個學校那麼目前這樣的一個完工的學校大概有16個學校有18案是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10923.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10941.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
目前因為宿舍的調整有時候會涉及到說可能人利用寒暑假的時間去做而且要騰龍換鳥所以速度大概沒有辦法那麼快但是我們現在其實已經有5.4萬床已經完成或在進行中了大概佔整體的四分之一左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10943.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10968.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
再來就是有關於居住正義奧爾斯都市改革組織提了一個很重要的觀點就是說大學宿舍它不是單純的一個校務的設施而是青年在就學期間基本的一個居住的支持學生的住宿需求不能只有看宿舍的一個申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10969.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10985.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
然後我們必須要納入校外住屋學生還有資源不能平均分配等等這些學校申請應該要優先來處理都會區還有高租金還有高外租高切口的學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10987.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11009.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
市長您有認同嗎?這個技術正義這個部分確實針對委員提出來的在都會區高住均高缺口這些是我們優先要加強輔導的對象那宿舍是除了教室以外學生大概在學校待最久的一個空間所以這個部分部裡面我們會很重視也會根據委員這個建議來加強輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11013.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11025.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
再來就是說因為現在房租基高不下物價也上漲了可能有一些產生經濟困難的情況之下學生在校外租屋的經費考量下他找到的一個黃色的品質有問題然後周邊的環境也很卑鄙基體學校又很遠所以我們很擔心這個基礎的安全問題教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11043.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11067.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
如何來關心並實質的協助這些保障這些學生的一個居住的安全好 謝謝委員的觀察這點確實是對弱勢學生來講應該優先幫他們解決的所以目前如果你是低收入戶的學生學校是要提供免費的住宿那如果是中低收入戶的學生我們會提供優先的住宿 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11068.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11095.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
當然在中低跟低收入以外同經濟弱勢的學生我們會跟學校這邊來建立一些追蹤構計的機制比如說他們來申請相關的獎學金助學措施我們要詢問一下他是不是在住宿有沒有需要學校優先來協助甚至他在外面住任居的地方我們多一份關心多一份了解來提醒他安全我想這部分委員的建議我們會跟大學這邊來討論怎麼來經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11098.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11118.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
比較弱勢的學生我們為了要教育要平等所以教育平等就是一切平等的基礎所以我們希望這些弱勢的學生能夠讓教育部能夠特別特別的來關心所以我們也很怕因為在外面租屋的環境不良還有就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11122.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11135.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
離了學校太遠這個交通問題所以在每年的九月九月的時候呢其實學生發生一些交通問題是特別的多應該那個市長你們都有九月是一個熱點的對 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11138.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11153.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
所以針對這個你們也必須要拿出一個政策出來就是能夠遏止讓這些學生能夠盡量的來我們剛剛有談到就是盡量來離學校的一個距離越近越好這個交通方便然後又安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11155.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11175.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
所以委員提醒我們在開學每一年的學期初都會針對學校附近一些交通的熱點會由學校透過學長解然後或透過一些資訊來提醒學生要注意道路交通安全那委員的提醒我們會繼續的因為學生在就學期間他的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11175.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11201.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
他的安全是大家都關心的尤其是家長所以我們要讓家長很放心對於我們的高教的一個問題都能夠很放心的把孩子叫到各個學校來那次長你知道台灣民眾黨從上一屆就很關注照顧青年學子讓學生有更好的一個生活的一個政策不知道那個次長你知道台灣民眾黨的這樣的一個政策嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11202.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11218.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
是在這次大學法專科學校法跟高級中等教育法提案我們有看到黨團的提案版本我們是很關心關心基柱正義還有住宿 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11219.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11233.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
住屋的貸款還有一個好的住宿才能夠讓學生能夠安心的學習這是我們台灣民眾黨的一個價值就是希望我們的學生能夠讓他盡量能無後顧之憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11236.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11252.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那最後呢就是跟教育部做一個呼籲就是說我們不要只有補助案件這些案件的管理而是要建立學生宿舍的一個治理的一個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11253.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11274.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
希望能夠在兩週內能夠提出115年6月底最新的統計在兩個月內能夠提出全國大專院校住宿的一個壓力跟盤點優先的改善名單以及對於未參與改善消極的學校的一個主動輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11276.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11299.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那個管考的一個機制能夠提供給委員辦我們來做這樣的一個關心跟研討因為這個我們可能需要跟各個大學去做一些了解是不是可以稍微三個月讓我們稍微跟大學這邊能夠他們也要去做一些盤查嘛三個月我們再等你們的一個那個書面報告來以上謝謝委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11307.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11322.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
好 謝謝委員 請坐 謝謝次長下一位有請吳麗娃委員謝謝主席 有請次長有請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11329.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11349.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
市長好 我們看到教育部其實宣布了蠻多新的政策特別是學校長期以來訴求的包括行政加急 終點費等等我們看到這兩年其實都有一個長足的進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11351.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11378.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
不過我的看法是這樣因為我們政策的發布政策的擬定之前總是希望有一個充分的討論能夠面面俱到那麼可以的理由是什麼那不能夠納入的理由是什麼所以這個部分我是希望說如果能夠做足就不會在發布一個政策之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11379.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11395.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
對我們這些民代而言我們就會接到很多的電話詢問這個可不可以 那個怎麼沒有那好 即便是如此我們也希望在政策的一個發布也能夠有一個所謂的修正期 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11396.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11413.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
廣納意見趕快的把它調整進來所以我今天在這邊是因為6月8號接到這一紙公文就是特別對於上一次調高終點費的時候辣掉了教學支援工作人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11414.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11437.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
所以呢我其實來立法院講了好幾年那終於終點費調高就比較遺憾就接到好多人打電話來那非常高興就是1月28號的時候我也有接到公文你們說願意把教職人員納進來但是行政院拍板定案核定函 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11437.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11458.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
很久你看從1月28號你們說會納入那在這個五個月當中其實我們又接到好多好多的電話每天都問我們說到底什麼時候開始那現在是還有一些拉掉的部分我還是要跟次長講例如那一些課後老師的終點費 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11459.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11487.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
也没有被纳入所以我想要了解一下另外我也要跟您提因为我咨询过很多次针对族语教师他很特别他可能跟其他的本土语像闽南语老师 手语老师都不一样因为我有举过一个真实的例子像台中市有一位已经70岁的族语老师因为找不到老师他一个人兼18个学校 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11488.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11514.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
兼18個學校這樣的例子全國各縣市比比皆是所以我希望針對竹語老師他們是很特殊的狀況他們的交通費我覺得應該要去做一個考量把它提升那針對課後老師什麼時候會不會納入啊還有這個竹語老師的交通費也沒有考慮到那請次長說明一下您的看法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11515.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11533.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
在課後的部分剛剛其實署長有提到因為已經召開過一次會那可能需要進一步來鄰居共識在七月會再開一次會七月開會對 因為它是一道家長的一些負擔跟地方政府我們必須要有些討論那另外在主委教室的部分我是請 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11534.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11557.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
好 謝謝署長謝謝昭偉所提到的依足以專任教師或是教學支援老師這兩類其實我們對他的福利待遇非常的重視那透過跟委員一直有互動相關的包含福利或是應有的給予的協助照顧我覺得應該要比較整包那我們想說在兩個禮拜內到委員辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11560.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11581.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
看看新學年前我們能不能為這一類老師多做什麼那特別跟委員約時間非常感謝謝謝市長署長把我們的聲音聽進去那我相信透過廣播系統應該很多的老師也都會非常的感謝那我在這邊其實我要接下來談的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11583.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11597.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
在3月19号的时候我以校正小组召集人的身份我有去参与教育部你们跟这个大专学生的团体学生团体代表办的一个大学法修法的一个讨论 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11598.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11613.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
在那个当中其实我们就听到了很多学生团体他们对于大学法修法的一些看法跟诉求我也在6月4号也就是上个礼拜也陪同这些学生团体 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11614.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11633.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
跟他们一起召开了一个大学法修法的一个记者会那我把他们的诉求我这样子快速的念一下他们希望能够提高学贷的生活费书籍费住宿费的上限他们希望可以呢建立一个学贷开学预播的机制 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11634.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11655.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
关于紧急纾困的助学金他们希望可以扩大到学生的个人疾病意外那助学的计划希望能够独立来增加一个科目叫做多元生理用品补助那助学的措施希望可以放宽不动产限额的规定回归到看家庭所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11655.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11676.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
再來就是他們希望取消這種針對這些打工的限制宿舍夜間門禁因為他們認為這是一種引為的歧視那再來就是學生住宿的時候呢希望可以依法簽戶籍而不會影響到他的宿舍分貝那我們當然都知道5月27號總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11678.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11705.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
行政院都有颁布一个新的不管是学贷降息还款或者是助学的方案我们都看到了那是更高的层级更高度的做法当然非常好那我这样子念我只是要表示针对学贷的部分我们有救学贷款办法针对助学的部分我们有弱势学生的助学计划我想要请教一下次长或高教师长 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11706.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11728.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
針對學生的這些訴求我們可以就這兩個辦法就可以處理好了嗎謝謝委員的指導確實在3月份在立法院跟同學談過之後回去我跟廖市長我們也就邀請了這些學生團體請他們把他們收集來意見逐一就是委儒列出來這個部分我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11729.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11743.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
都已經有很細緻的討論而且有些東西已經做了比如說第一個在調高學貸的書籍費、住宿費我們也去問了現在就是在收集學校就是說各個學校大概這個平均是怎麼樣我們怎樣的把這個貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11744.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11773.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
那個額度可以拉高現在已經在收集各位學校的資料這我們已經有承諾同學第二個在開學預撥的一個機制現在學費是可以預撥的但是像書籍費其他的費用是沒有辦法這部分高雅市已經在4月就新聞給大學跟承代銀行就是全面都是幫學生都先預繳掉了學生不用再做任何預繳緊急疏困金這個部分我們現在也在調查學校過去給哪些項目我們希望把它放進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11774.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11803.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那在生理多元實驗生理多元的那個用品這部分已經正在修法要放進去了那在住學措施放寬不動產限額這個部分我們現在也在像我們幾位委員都提到可以去參考家庭收戶連鎖德等等我們現在也在收集這個數據來判斷大概放寬到哪一些對象那打工跟宿舍門禁上次在立法院同學也有一些主張我們現在也在跟基級在跟學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11803.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11825.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
討論是不是可以更適度來尊重學生他們的一些訴求那住宿時依法來簽戶籍這塊也跟內政部做了確認是完全沒有問題那我們也有要求學校這部分要配合辦理以上報告所以都已經可以處理了對我聽起來就是全部都可以處理了我想總統的想法應該也是這樣我們面對這樣的一個少子化的時代來臨 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11832.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11849.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
非常嚴峻的挑戰所以每一個學生每一個孩子都是學校或者是國家珍貴的財產所以我覺得能夠幫助孩子願意讀書的孩子能夠幫助他們順利的就學畢業 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11850.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11877.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
踏入社会为我们的国家奉献我们都应该要全力支持所以我今天学戴三法我们的招委也有排了虽然我们有版本就是没有被排进来但是我们都是在意的是学生的诉求有没有获得回应跟改善那我听起来是有啦那我自己针对原住民的部分其实原教法的第11条我也有提法案版本我也有做预算提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11878.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11895.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那我背景我再重新强调一次就是我们在103年原教法的修法我们有根据第11条说要逐年的来修订所以当时原教经费的比例把1.2调到了1.9可是现在又超过了12年 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11897.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11922.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我們原住民的人口數也來到了2.7%又受到財化法撥給地方的影響所以在這個部分我有不斷的要求說我們應該要來討論如何把原住民教育經費要因應這些修法跟我們的整個物價波動要去做一個調整也獲得大家的回應那我的看法是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11923.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11947.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
因為如果我們要去回到我們應該有的水準我是認為教育部跟園民會7比3的分擔教育部恐怕要增加8億園民會要增加4億那到底教育部增加的8億要做什麼我的看法是這樣我希望原住民的學雜費全免大專生全免為什麼我這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11948.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11971.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
因為兩年前賴清德總統宣布私立大專高中的這個學費的減免一年是3.5萬一個學年然後呢經濟弱勢的學生又可以加碼1.5萬也就是變成5萬可是次長我有不斷的訴求原住民的學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11972.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11996.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
他是只能折一所以呢他还是维持他原来的原住民的这个补助而且原住民的弱势学生也是只能折一不能重复为什么我特别这样讲古有名训不患寡患不均明明原住民的大学生跟一般的大学生出债学率是相差38.5% |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11998.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12013.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
我們先不細究是什麼造成但是就是有這麼大的落差的原住民學生是離開大學的他讀不下去的所以這個部分我們本來是要米平啊結果呢那個政策一上來哇 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12014.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12034.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
又把那個gap又拉大那我們還來不及觀察它未來造成的效應是什麼但是我一直強調我們應該就要來做這個部分不曉得次長您的看法如何謝謝委員提醒確實委員先前有提醒我們在要注意這一塊就是說在弱勢的學生之 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12035.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12052.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
之外跟原住民之間的補助不要是互相互賜的有沒有可能互相搭配來協助經濟弱勢的原住民學生這塊多給他一些照顧所以高老師也有在做一些評估看看是不是在我們目前的原民補助是比較屬於齊頭市的 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12054.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12072.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那針對經濟弱勢這邊是不是可以做個協助所以我想這個部分要增加就是我個人是強調啦就是原住民學生學雜費就全免因為你本來原教經費就要增加我希望這一塊是必須要做那另外就是關鍵人才的培育 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12073.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12095.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
這個部分我非常的高興我講給許多人聽他們也很期待十年之後應該會看到不一樣的一個原住民的教育高教的狀況所以這個部分我還是強烈的訴求那最後一個問題就是我很關心我們原住民學生的問題那我有一種學生要講給次長聽就是大五生 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12096.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12116.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
原住民呢自從要去修所謂的教育學程他是完全不可能四年畢業還有雙修的又加上很多的原住民學生還要加足語認證種種的因素我要講的是說如果他是因為優秀的學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12117.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12141.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
結果遇到被迫要有第五年我希望這個大五的部分學雜費的減免要繼續的比照前四年可以嗎謝謝委員這個提醒我想我們會來瞭解這個狀況只要學生是一個正常學習他願意去學政府就應該給他支持那我跟那個次長說其實這個議題在昨天的校正委員會有被提出來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12143.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12170.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那没有得到好的答案所以我今天特别的提出来提高学生的毕业率不能够去惩罚优秀的学生而且他是有条件的他不是所有的好不好我希望赶快来研议可以吗没问题这点我们来支持这样的同学那另外就是知识中心的部分我也希望放在原教经费增加里面我希望它变成一个常态性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12171.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12179.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
目前很少族群有完成知識中心知識族群的知識而且我認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12180.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12208.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
原住民的這個各族群的知識你應該要搭配課程教材啊這兩個不能脫鉤啊因為原住民的知識是在跟學生跟我們的時間在賽跑所以這個部分我希望把它變成一個常態性的計畫也能夠納入到我們的原住民教育的中長程計畫讓它穩定的完成所有族群它的知識的採集以及轉化為課程教材 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12209.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12232.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
這個是我們必然要走的路而且非常的辛苦好不好好我們這個發展計劃因為有跟考選部原民會合作那這個自治中心我如果一下沒做原民會有在處理我們會跟他合作那我很高興今天也有排那個午餐但是午餐22個縣市已經全免了但是我只有一個以前遺留下來的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12233.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12262.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
可能次長知道或不知道很多學校的老師常年針對那些付不出學雜費 午餐費學校代說代辦費變呆帳最後都變成是老師導師直接吸收所以我也希望說雖然我們未來午餐會全免但是還是有學雜費代說代辦費的呆帳我希望去研議一個合理可以避免轉嫁這個給第一線導師的一個精進做法可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12264.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12280.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
謝謝因為我們過去我們針對弱勢學生是有一些21的補助所以我們來瞭解一下狀況是怎樣不要造成老師的負擔不要造成學校或者是老師的一個負擔現在我們的老師已經很珍貴了我們已經是要想方設法 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12281.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12308.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
回复我们老师的尊严提升他们的待遇改善他们的一个环境让我们的老师能够安心的培育我们国家栋梁 好不好好 没问题 谢谢委员 次长好 谢谢次长 谢谢署长谢谢召委主席好 谢谢吴召委 谢谢 谢谢次长下一位 议员之委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12321.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12338.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩請次長麻煩請次長我相信次長剛剛早上你到教育文化委員會的時候你應該看到外面有一整排的記者嘛是我們教育文化委員會何時有那麼多記者過 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12340.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12364.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
那為什麼呢因為現在教育的議題是全國關注的議題大家都很期待來到這邊碰到教育部長鄭英耀先生可以詢問他現在教育的狀況但是很遺憾的今天我們羅廷偉召委排有關於教育部的法案進行詢答而且大家那麼關心教育現在所面臨到的問題現在已經是全國關注但鄭英耀部長不來 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12367.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12369.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
請假請問一下他是有什麼重要的事不來 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12371.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12396.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
跟委員報告 因為部長早上另外有行程請問一下 那麼多委員會134在開會 這麼多委員會其他委員會的部長 主委都可以來只有我們政要部長在全國民眾在關注教育問題希望他發表一些聲音的時候他不願意面對社會大眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12397.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12421.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
這什麼重要的事啊?根文報告因為早上郝部長到行政院院會因為有教育部的提案教育部什麼提案?教育部什麼重要的提案你講一下什麼重要的提案?對什麼重要的提案啊?也是跟我們這一次在就學貸款相關的一個經濟措施什麼經濟措施啊?那為什麼今天立法院就是在討論這個然後他不願意來勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12424.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12443.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我們現在部長因為他在行政院院會他必須去針對我們這個更委的立場是一樣什麼立場一樣今天雖然排的是學代雖然排的是營養午餐但是大家很希望部長針對現在的教育的問題包括教育現場失序的狀況來對社會大眾說明嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12446.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12469.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
結果用了一個他那麼重視這個東西你說學貸是不是這麼重視那我們學貸三法大家都多久了行政院有版本嗎教育部有版本嗎教育部有沒有版本嘛有沒有版本沒有你回答有沒有版本有沒有你養午餐法有沒有版本那就是不夠嘛就是因為不夠學生團體也覺得不夠所以大家才覺得要入法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12470.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12497.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
如果那麼重視的話你怎麼沒有立刻宣布呢你具體的精進作為是什麼為什麼學生團體會覺得不夠呢市長啊 大家都是明眼人啊今天部長不願意來啊就是不想要面對這位大眾對於現在教育失序的質疑嘛我就問啦請問一下教育部長這幾天 這一兩個禮拜包括有高雄的國小的不幸老師的不幸事件包括一連串的教育失序的亂象部長出來講話嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12499.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12519.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
有沒有跟委員報告教育部是一體的部長有沒有出來講話那不然你來當部長好了你可以說因為教育部是一體的所以部長就不用講話他是教育部的大家長他的態度可以影響整個教育政策所以大家想要知道他的聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12521.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12535.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
今天一整天大家都在講那個鐵拳教育鐵拳教育啦對 沒有錯鐵拳教育很紅也很多人Q我去看因為他們都知道我長期在關注教育議題老師的權益很多人Q我去看我也去看了可是次長你知道為什麼鐵拳教育會那麼紅嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12537.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12565.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
是因為大家很有共鳴啦大家看到了韓國他們因為很多也是真人真事他們把很多他們教育現場的失序狀況把它演出來然後他有一個英雄教權局的督導可以去解決這些教育亂象當然這是戲劇有一些在現實生活不太可能存在可是問題是大家可以在現實上面的壓力已經不滿透過戲劇的方式得到抒發所以鐵拳教育才是那麼紅啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12566.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12590.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
但是為什麼我們這邊都沒有共平因為台灣的教育跟韓國面臨到一樣的狀況可是我們的教權局在哪裡我們的部長在哪裡我們的任何教育部的官員可以跟我們的家長老師學生講說你們的解決方案是什麼嗎沒有教育部長躲起來我給你看一下我給你看一下這個等一下再秀這個就是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12593.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12609.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
鐵拳 你沒看過嘛 對不對這就是鐵拳教育的部長啦他說我們來建立一個不會再有老師因為投訴而死去的環境第五集啦第五集就是在演老師被爛訴啦前面還有一集是演說 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12611.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12633.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
老師因為管教學生學生不滿啦故意營造說老師性騷擾他但是其實沒有老師也因為這樣走上絕路啦我之前就有諮詢過部長我說現在你們去看網路一堆學生在分享怎麼把討厭的老師趕走也許比較兇的老師也許管教比較奄老師怎麼趕走檢舉他性平就好因為性平很主觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12635.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12660.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
這些事情都發生在我們的台灣的教育現場啊是的啊是那我們的部長在哪裡人家戲劇裡面的部長從去年開始我們就有一連串跟第一章戰舞跟家長最近幾天人家的人家戲劇裡面的部長面對很多教育的現場問題的時候自己站上第一線面對媒體回答問題我們的部長咧你看一下我們部長在幹嘛夏業 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12665.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12669.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
上一頁不是有一頁部長去雲林的嗎我剛剛我注意沒有放他去哪裡去彰化這兩天去彰化參加民進黨辦的活動跟農業部長陳俊濟去參加民進黨辦的活動就很有時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12692.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12714.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
後面的你要不要直接來回答要不要要不要你直接來回答好了好不好沒有根本報告其實部長部長有時間去參加民進黨辦的活動但是面對現在大家對教育眾不滿部長呢協尋部長連今天都不來都在積極在處理這個那莫總不願意出來面對國會為什麼不願意出來面對媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12718.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12740.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
部長從去年開始我們就一直帶著我們部裡面的同仁我們針對現場遇到的問題包含校室會議問題老師的管教權是喔你真的自我感覺良好啦今天大家就是要來問這個嘛媒體也是要來問這個嘛人呢這樣的措施從今年就是不夠嘛還是市長你覺得已經做得很好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12741.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12756.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
我覺得很好了是不是如果很好了這幾天大家會炸鍋嗎教育議題本來大家關注沒那麼多就除了我們教育文化委員會我們很多委員在關注之外現在大家都在關注結果部長咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12758.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12785.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我還是跟委員報告部長從去年開始哎呀你是次長你當然要這樣講嘛因為他是你長官嘛但是你們跟一般的民眾跟老師跟學生跟家長的感覺差很多次長我不為難你啦作為他是你的長官你當然要說他的好話但你越說其實越幫他扣分因為你越幫他擦脂挪粉大家的感受會覺得那你們怎麼感受你們怎麼自我感覺這麼良好 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12786.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12806.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
第一個啦 爛數的問題趕快解決啦你剛剛講說 那個現在的 什麼 建案的只剩兩層投訴 投訴 最後進到消防會議 消事會議去調查的已經從八成二降到兩成二那這兩層之後的爛數是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12810.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12824.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
這是我們在這半年來的統計我們在七月份中旬的時候會有一個更明確的檢討分析到時候也可以跟委員做說明在下次會議一月份改革之後現在第一個齁兩層還是很多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12825.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12852.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
第二兩層進去之後會不會兩層都是爛樹這才是最這才是關鍵的問題嗎所以你要去解決爛樹的問題不是喜滋滋的講說現在現在層岸的只剩兩層不是是爛樹好這第一件事情第二件事情你看剛剛看那個一個老師被捅被學生捅屁股然後老師在寫黑板一個女老師喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12853.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12882.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
紅屁股本能試著把學生推開結果老師被處分為什麼呢因為寫這個報告的人是說即使被行為人是故意戳行為人屁股就學生是故意戳行為人屁股甚至是戳中肛門但身為老師還是不應該有傷害學生的行為所以他被處分老師本能試著把學生推開自衛室結果他被處分市長你覺得OK嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12884.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12906.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
根本報告因為這部分我們會請宜蘭縣政府整桌你覺得OK嗎你覺得不覺得OK嗎如果從目前我看到的訊息來看確實有重新整桌的那太誇張了嘛這個就校事會議啊你們校事會議引進了很多所謂的外部專家或者是什麼家長委員這就是一個據我了解是一個家長委員寫的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12908.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12935.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
跟我們報告在校士會議的人才資料庫裡面我們也會有一些定期的我們會來檢視這個就是這個次長這就是一個很大的問題嘛這一種狀況非常多嘛只是因為這個有網路上有人PO出來嘛那你今天你今天校士會議為什麼變成這樣當初跟你們教育部一起推校士會議的人本基金會有沒有仇失我看到你知道他講什麼嗎他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12937.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12964.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
哎呀老師們也不要因為被爛訴啊就失去了原本跟學生的關係嘛對不對校事會議調查完之後如果老師沒事也是還老師清白啊哇賽 站著講話不腰疼欸那要不要他被調查看看所有的老師雖然被調查最後還清白但是會經歷四到六個月的煎熬欸很多老師講說這個調查過程就是羞辱 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12966.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12986.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
被扒了好幾層皮而且我們校士會一個最誇張的事情就是我之前也質詢過行政院長卓榮泰我不知道他有沒有重視他也覺得不合理但是校士會依然沒有改革就是所有的我還沒講講到卓榮泰你就急著護航是不是我還沒有問問題我要問什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12991.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13012.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
委員請說那你為什麼聽到卓榮泰你這麼緊張我是跟委員解釋說我都還沒問問題啊我還沒問我跟他講說所有的司法都是無罪推定只有校事會議是有罪推定他覺得合不合理他還覺得不合理老師被投訴之後所有老師要自己收集資料去自證自己無罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13013.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13038.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
他光收集資料就好了啦最後證明無罪啦結果呢都不用備課了啦心情都受到影響了啦被扒了幾層皮之後人本基基會的講說這也是證明清白的機會啊你不要因為這樣難過嘛校日會已經成為一個非常扭曲的制度對於老師充滿了仇恨寧可錯殺一百不可放過一人所以才會造成這樣子爛樹的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13041.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13053.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
你們在教育部到底知不知道問題啊我想跟委員報告就是說您講這些事實可能在去年12月以前在現場有可能發生但是在今年1月部裡面針對校師會議我們有做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13054.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13080.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
不准立民選舉 案件的分流 輔導資訊的公開那甚至說調查報告出來主管機關也可以再做一些審視加強事後的監督是不是讓我們有這半 你看這半年的時間有罪推定呢沒有所謂的有罪推定就是有 推推進老師要自證自己無罪你是不是管國教的 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13082.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13088.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
你不知道就不要隨便講好不好有罪推定就是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13090.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13115.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我們沒有這樣子的條文 真的你沒有這個條文 那現行做法就是這樣嘛不要不死人間煙火教育部最大的問題就是不死人間煙火啦從你的對答就知道了啦跟你講教育現狀就是這樣你就去檢討嘛 你就改進嘛結果你一直跟我講沒有沒有 我們這半年來的收集會再提高半年來就是不夠嘛而且我跟你講有罪推定就是沒有改嘛有罪推定就是沒有改就是會造成爛數 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13116.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13144.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
沒有有所以推定這個問題就是有如果有怎麼辦?市長有的話怎麼辦?條文沒有條文沒有但實際上就是有嘛那你要不要去了解你要不要去了解你要不要去了解現實的狀況你要不要去了解不要在那邊耍腿劈指教育部就是一副雲淡風輕啦所以所有老師面對這些困難的情況之下教育部就是說條文沒有老師隨便你啦你我跟你講鐵拳教育裡面的部長講什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13146.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13158.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
鞠躬道歉跟所有老師說對不起讓所有的老師獨自面對教育的困境而我們的教育部的次長在說什麼沒有這回事啦沒有這回事條文沒有啦條文沒有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13161.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13188.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
部長不敢來 次長說條文沒有啦現實狀況教育部就是假裝沒看到啦你們這半年有做啦做幾分嘛考試考滿分100分你考20分一直說我考20分人民希望你考100分你一直考個20分在那邊講喔有啦有20分啦有就好了啦我希望你考100分把這半年來我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13189.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13214.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
改革之後的一些成果改革有成果的話現在狀況會越來越糟嗎?會越來越糟嗎?我再跟你講一個啦我再跟你講一個啦除了前一兩個禮拜高雄一個國小的老師發生不幸事件之外現在也還有另外一個高雄的老師在網路上也是很紅也是很有名對教育很有貢獻但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13215.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13238.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
前幾天忽然發文問說請問學校的最高樓層是幾樓後來被衛生局勸去送醫這事情你知道嗎我有在社群網站看到你有看到嗎 對嘛所以有很多狀況你都知道嘛但是你還是覺得你做得很好啊好 那一年內一年內有三個老師選擇最樓然後還有老師公然在網路發問 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13240.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13258.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
教育部覺得做得很好了都不知道發生什麼事教育部怎麼解決老師的情緒問題呢很簡單啊就去上自殺防治研習啊都上研習嘛反而上研習被罵老師更覺得莫名其妙啊他寧可休息啊然後實際上的狀況我們來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13263.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13277.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
老師的日常 年度研習一大堆環境教育四小時 交通安全四小時 特殊教育六小時 自招防治三小時 情緒教育兩小時教育部永遠都用研習的方式來解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13280.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13307.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
有沒有比較具體的方法 次長跟委員報告 研習的目的不是為了研習而研習所以我也跟幾個師處我們都在講研習之後 我們期待的目的是我是希望老師能夠了解甚至校園內能夠有一個種子教師能夠來協助校園內能夠落實我們這些交通安全環境教育那這部分怎麼不要造成現場第一線老師的負擔這點我們是可以再來斟酌做更好的安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13307.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13335.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
那是不是我在希望委員讓我們把這半年來我們整理出來的在七月中我們是不是跟委員報告一下在今年一月校士會有改革的成果我剛剛其實要跟委員表達是這樣你的表達就是說法條沒有啊所以現實狀況怎麼樣我哪知道你台獨就是這樣嘛沒關係啦大家都有看到我們的對話可受公平啦大家都有看到啦最後最後這個請教一下那個國教署長我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13342.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13359.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
現在因為各縣市都免費營養午餐了現在有宣布了都免費營養午餐了但是這裡面有一些漏網之魚跟署長報告因為有一些國中它是國立的比如說我們新北市板橋區國立華僑高級中學它是國立的 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13361.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13371.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那在新北市免費營養午餐他就沒有被照顧到其實全國有十幾間都是國立的高中那我想問一下華僑國中的免費營養午餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13378.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13378.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
怎麼處理不是啦 我現在問 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13396.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13411.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
那怎麼處理嘛你是國立的那現在市立的人家要補助免費營養午餐那國立的你是不是就補助嘛不然的話怎麼大家都是在讀國中只是因為學校是市立國立的不同有的就免費營養午餐有的就沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13411.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13433.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那怎麼叫教育平權呢教育平權不是你們一直在講的東西嗎那既然華僑是國立的那你就要照顧人家所以是不是國教署可以補助呢還是就讓他們成為沒有人理的一群了解 謝謝文不是啦 你要講啊所以是怎樣現在我們的了解是目前只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13434.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13456.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
國立的嘉義科學時鐘的國中部沒有所以委員講的這個華僑我跟這個華僑也沒有是有 不過我們會後馬上了解華僑沒有 我跟你講沒有 我問過了嘛了解了解 我們馬上跟委員講你為什麼每一個人來這裡都喜歡先否定呢不是 因為您事前有問我們我們就先去了解了不用了解 我現在跟你講沒有嘛那你要怎麼處理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13457.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13481.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
如果沒有的話 我們會跟當地的地方政府一起來協助 一起協助那一協助什麼意思如果地方政府沒有編預算 那是國教署的編預算是不是是 跟委員報告 在國教法裡面第九條到第十一條有提到當地的各種國中教育 國小教育 怎麼樣做分工我們會依據那個來執行這到底是什麼 你講話我都聽不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13483.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13499.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
我的問題很簡單勢力的就是比如說新北市政府他們有補助勢力的學校免費營養午餐但是因為新北市裡面也有國立的它就不是屬於新北市政府國立的就沒有免費營養午餐而且全國其實為數也不多都國立的 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13500.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13525.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
那國教署的立場是說不理他們還是說會協調地方政府那如果地方政府不理那國教署是不是也就沒辦法還是怎麼樣還是國教署會願意編譽就這麼簡單的問題不要繞來繞去請蘇財直接回答好嗎委員直接回答啦就是我們會直接跟地方政府協調地方政府在我們協調之後通常在所有政策裡面都會一起來完成他們也會同意你確定很確定好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13528.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13556.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
那也請署長會後將相關的資料提供沒問題好不好讓委員關心的事項能夠得到回覆那也再次跟委員特別報告下禮拜一有關相關的校園問題我們會有公聽會也邀請委員可以出席還拜託委員一起來發聲好 謝謝委員長謝謝請回座接下來徐欣穎委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13567.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13570.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
好,謝謝主席,本席有請教育部朱長賜有請,次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13578.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13598.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
市長今天有蠻多的議題首先第一個就有關就學貸款的部分因為本席時間有限首先我想先表達我的立場就是就學貸款的制度我們希望是成為青年向上的階梯而不是人生起步的重擔那我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13602.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13618.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
學生和家庭需要的不是每年拆政策他們需要是穩定而且可預期的保障所以本席直接了當的來請教次長那有關這個高級中等教育法第58條 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13620.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13638.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
教育部是否同意應該要明訂貸款利息由中央主管機關來編列預算負擔以及升貸的資格應該加入撫養負擔教育部的立場是 謝謝委員的關心我們跟委員一樣都希望學貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13639.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13654.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
不要成為學生畢業之後向上流動的一個重擔所以我們期待的是說是不是可以在目前在大學法專業學校法跟高級中學法他正在學一代這部分本來就有一個授權的辦法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13654.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13673.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
就有一個授權的依據讓教育部去定辦法我們過去針對學貸的利息針對貸款的資本所以你們認同中央主管機關來編列整個貸款利息來負擔可以嗎我們目前已經有宣布總統在27號已經有宣布我們會調降還款利息1% |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13674.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13692.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
所以没有不愿意免利息就对了免息这一块我们还是期待是说让在我们是希望很多委员我相信都很希望等于是就是免利息的部分朝这个方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13693.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13713.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
我們現在會比較希望說因為這樣已經降一趴那未來會再看整個財政跟學生需求來做處理讓政府的資源做更精準的同發其實我跟文報告以目前學生畢業後的還款的一個人來講他其實有將近八成八 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13718.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13734.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
有關就學貸款的部分本席聽了很多年輕人的意見所以我們是希望朝向第一個利息全免第二個就是他身貸的資格家戶所得可以從120萬提升到150萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13737.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13766.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
那再来就是本席今天也有提一个修正动议就是本金的还款是不是可以从工作一年后延长到两年后等于给我们最重要就是给我们年轻人他在起步的时候他其实也是他的经济能力是最弱的所以我们应该给他更宽限的这个一个状态然后再来就是就学贷款我们还是希望朝向能够免利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13767.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13790.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
這個教育部是不是可以承諾就是說一個月內來向教育委員會提出我們這個高級中等教育法的第58條它可以入法的項目清單那再來就是區分哪些應該入法哪些可以由執法處理哪些教育部仍有 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13790.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13814.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
疑慮是不是可以逐項的說明在一個月內提供給教育委員會可以嗎跟委員報告就是說高級中等教育法58條因為高中已經全面免學費了但委員關係的可能是在大學法跟專科學校法那沒關係這塊由我們來整理哪一些是在我們目前的授權辦法或是我們的一些方案就可以處理的我們列個表提供給委員沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13816.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13837.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
那接着今天因为也有谈到营养午餐的本席也想很快的就是想了解我们教育部的立场就是对于营养午餐我们相信教育部也认同学校的营养午餐它不只是一份便当它是一整套的校园治理制度所以我们现在 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13838.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13857.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
看到教育部今天的報告裡面有說原本教育部每年有補助弱勢午餐21億國產可溯源食材有38億偏鄉中央廚房15億那再加上新增的營養師午餐執行秘書等等26億總計超過100億這個未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13861.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13880.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
是要可能回歸地方負擔嗎是 因為在財政收支劃分法那個是財政收支劃分法那你中央定標準結果你把100億整個丟給地方那地方的財政又吃緊你又把壓力丟給學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13882.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13894.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
會讓我們覺得這個是中央出一張嘴中央有理想結果你地方來負帳單學校扛責任出了事情你就怪學校跟老師這個不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13896.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13922.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
根文報告因為目前據了解22縣市已經都是全面營養午餐免費代表說在財發法之後他們地方的資資資財力是夠的已經可以來支持這塊那當然下一步我們會持續就整個營養午餐的品質一些管控食安管理資訊的揭露我們會跟地方來做更緊密的合作不會因為說由地方來做我們就不做但是老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13923.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13949.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
確實在積分的部分現在地方其實財力應該是可以支援那我們今天因為有要討論整個營養午餐的專法是不是可以請教育部也可以提出來這個會後提出來四件事第一個專法會送行政院行政院送立法院的具體時程嗎好這第一個第二個中央與地方裁員的分擔表因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13949.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13977.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我们未来主人公的这个营养午餐我们还是希望我们中央可以来承担那第三个午餐执行秘书专职化或是教师兼任检授课的全国标准第四个营养师厨工厨房设备和偏乡共餐的分年补助计划这些是不是可以在一个月内向委员会提出可以吗我请署长这边跟委员说明一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13977.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13993.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
不用说明可不可以就是一个一个提言议说明对对对提出来好最后可不可以请主席最后在场的教育部教育部是不是可以提出全国营养师午餐秘书厨工跟厨房的设备盘点 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13993.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14011.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
提給教育委員會財政部今天也有來是不是提出中央地方的分擔模式可不可以請主席採視再來就是衛福部能否提出這個請衛福部提出食安風險的稽查以及異常通報制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14012.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14038.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
那請農業部提出在地食材的穩定供應與價格調節機制可不可以請主席採取這個是不是可以請今天有來的四個部會送教育委員會可以嗎主席可以嗎委員因為時間到了但是委員所提的相關需求也希望我們相關部會應該給予正面的回應是不是會後能夠提供這些相關的籌備計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14040.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14057.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
但是新主席才是另外有三個部位因為它是叫地方政府的一些設備的盤點是不是可以給我們比較長的時間兩個月內好那就兩個月好不好盤點的話兩個月因為最近行政減量是不是委員能夠同意三個月三個月內謝謝委員謝謝委員的辦理謝謝三個月內下一位張雅玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14074.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14089.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
主席我們有請朱副次有請次長這集抱歉我可能要請那個國教署署長一起請署長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14092.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14120.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
好 我想昨天這個中小學校長協會有發布新聞稿提到說教育現場有老師在教學或輔導的過程之中被學生咬傷抓傷撞傷甚至是有牙齒斷裂那我自己也有遇過處理過的相關的案件是老師可能甚至有被打這樣子的一個案件然後瘀青等等的那最後老師通常就是礙於教育人員的身分跟職責他最後就不選擇不提不會不報然後也不提告然後就息事寧人 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14121.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14147.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
所以這個協會他們也做了一些調查就發現這兩年來教育人員因為在教學或輔管期間受到攻擊的事件其實是不少10次以上就有17筆這是90個學校的回覆其中10次以上有17筆普通班的老師有50所從這張表我想你就可以非常清楚的看見到我們教學現場老師們承受的是什麼樣子的一個狀態什麼樣子的一個壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14150.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14160.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
所以我想要了解就是說教育部現在有沒有去掌握我們全國教育人員因學生攻擊而受傷的統計有沒有分職務分事件分受傷的程度來做一個盤點呢有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14165.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14182.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
好謝謝委員指導確實在目前我們學校大家都有校安通報不管是師對生或生對師都有那這部分我們可以來做一些更細緻的分類來跟委員報告調查情形那其次針對於老師在職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14184.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14200.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
受到的一些不法侵害雖然現在早上其實媒體朋友在問我在治安法雖然已經有一些規範可是我們也會跟書長討論可能我們需要針對於學校這個場域針對老師的這種安全知道應該要帶來一個更積極的作為是 是 是這我們會來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14204.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14221.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那因為其實啊剛剛你提到校安通報那最近也是台北市有個小學仁愛國小的事件也是沸沸揚揚那據我所知家長會是告訴我說他們去跟台北市教育局要詢問的時候呢教育局是說校安通報的統計呢會先到不才會再轉告給他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14223.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14251.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
那這是事實嗎?因為據我所知應該是同步進行吧對吧?這個是不是可以請次長再釐清一下?嗯,好何秦署長謝謝委員那這個案子我們報案書裡面也非常的關切那它其實其實已經有涉及到一些危險的動作對,沒錯那我們會要求台北市在七天內把過往它有通報過十次那是不是同一個個案、同一個行為等等以前通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14252.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14277.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
跟這一次處理情形調查結果以及未來如何預防甚至我們部內如何用校安通報上類似情形也有所檢討大概這兩層次都會做檢視我想這個部分其實我是想要強調一個重點就是說當學校我們這個校安通報的流程應該行之有年了對不對學校該怎麼進行通報教育局各立的縣市政府應該如何協助學校啟動應變小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14279.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14302.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
以及後續的三級處遇這應該都是地方縣市政府應該要來協助的部分可是學校告訴我的是會長告訴我的是台北市必須要等到教育部轉資這個校安通報我想這個可能就不是符合過去行之有年所以這部分要再麻煩國教署積極的來督導因為這的確現場來說我要先講一下就是說我們要照顧這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14305.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14321.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我們要照顧現場的學生也要保護老師那這個孩子也要立刻的進行三級處遇啦好不好我要補充一點 委員剛剛講的我們可能要釐清一下為什麼這一位的同仁啊 家長等等會有這樣的一個說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14322.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14340.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
是教育局跟他說的那地方政府在作為主管機關他早就已經在處理了所以不帶什麼通報後教育部要有所什麼核定或是轉職這個是歷來本來就依法在處置的作為謝謝對 這個是教育局給他的回覆啦所以他來告訴我這個問題啦所以我只是希望你們來 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14341.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14368.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
了解一下那再來一個部分就是說因為其實協會也有講到就是說是不是可以針對學校部分因為我們現在這個補償金慰問金基本上是公教一體可是對他們來說其實是非常困難因為其實公務人員不會面對到這麼多的可能現場的在做攻擊或傷害等等的所以是不是可以針對這個慰問金辦法把公務人員跟教育人員來脫鉤建立這個教育人員專屬的慰問補償跟支持制度呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14369.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14388.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
市長您的看法因為這個部分還會涉及到跟全序部的選擇我們會很重視這樣的建議我們跟全序部討論因為這是完全不一樣的狀態再來一個問題就是說疑似生這個其實我一直在追就是說台北市的疑似生的比例比其他的縣市人數比例都來得高 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14389.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14407.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
那台北市政府的回复给我们的回复是说因为台北市的疑似生人数比较高主要是因为孩子卡在幼儿园大班生国小一年级这个阶段有些孩子在幼儿园时被鉴定发展迟缓到了要升小学重新建立的时候还看不出到底属于哪一种障别 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14407.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14426.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
所以呢他為了不要讓孩子因為還沒有確定類別就失去特教資源所以會讓他們再先接受特教之詞一年之後再重新鑑定那後來呢我們再發現這些資料大概有六成都會被鑑定為特殊教育學生那我想要釐清一個重點就是說這個邏輯上面我覺得有 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14427.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14448.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
荒謬的地方就是說他會給他特教生的支持那我想問特教生的支持是等於是說我們有給他IEP嗎我們有因為這樣子的人數去縮減班級的人數嗎我們有提供我們有增加特教老師嗎如果都沒有的話那個支持到底是什麼只是讓現場更混亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14452.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14479.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
剛剛委員所問的他是疑似生跟非疑似生那有三個重點剛來的槌尋我們會問這個縣市因為每個縣市在特定的他們的資源或相關的認定上以及剛剛委員講在跨級的時候有這樣的一個顧慮也有他們的考慮但是剛剛委員的三問我們會來就較相關的縣市政府也在七天內會跟委員回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14480.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14497.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
好 因為我想這個我自己看我覺得可能存在三個問題鑑定的速度不夠快跨階段的銜接也不夠細緻特教人力也沒有跟著學生的實際需求來去做增加所以這個部分的話請你們來了解一下這到底是做得好還是做得不好因為我想不管是普特融合一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14497.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14514.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
一般生的孩子要好好被照顾特教生的孩子的需求也要被好好照顾没有一个孩子应该要被这样子失去了自己的受教权那最后一个问题就是再讲普特融合的现场我们这个普特融合的现场其实我们都非常清楚的知道我们少子化 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14514.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14533.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
但是我們的特教生的比例其實是越來越高我們安置率高不代表融合教育是成功的所以我希望就是說我們現在的確是給特教生有一些些特殊的IEP什麼的但是我希望我們在計算特教老師的人力需求的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14534.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14554.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
不能够只有看学生数的师生笔等等的我们还要去来掌握到底他们平均负责多少学生有多少IEP要做有多少鉴定评估有多少情绪行为个案我觉得这些都要非常仔细的来讲因为他们有时候还要协助普通班 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14555.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14577.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
所以這些東西我認為我們應該要來積極的掌握我們才能夠去確保說我們的普特融合怎麼樣可以真正的做到普特融合而不是彼此忍耐好嗎 可以嗎這些資料是不是什麼時候也可以提供給我好 我們是不是一個月後提供給委員參考好 謝謝好 下一位林倩琪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14586.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14601.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
好 謝謝我們主席羅昭瑋還有我們福音同仁 大家好那麼今天我就針對這個教育現場的一些問題還有我們電競專班的這個健康維護來跟教育部做一個請教那麼是不是先請助次長有請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14606.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14633.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
市长您好首先本席要针对教师的职场安全还有校园的申诉制度跟教育现场的支持系统来跟您就教那么最近大家都在看一部片可能你们也有人知道就是这个铁拳教育是韩剧那里面一句话让大家感到非常的震撼包括我也就是说剧中提到如果老师都害怕学生 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14635.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14650.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
我想這說出很多人現在的無奈我想最近從本席從最近的一些事件看到其實整個社會現在已經產生很大的變化那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14651.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14672.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
要在這邊做個提醒許多基層的教師都感受到社會的一個很大的變化那麼教育現場長期失控家長爛訴行政究責跟輿論的壓力等等我想這個部分教育部應該都要有掌握對不對所以本席要請教教育部兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14674.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14690.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
那麼最近面對這麼多起教師輕生及重大身心壓力的事件你們是不是已經進行了全國性的盤點那包括教師因為校事會議家長申訴還有學生的一個衝突跟管教衝突等 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14691.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14712.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
承受的心理壓力跟行政負擔你們有沒有具體的統計跟風險的評估第二個部分是那老師如果遇到高度衝突的班級那麼重大的學生行為問題跟家長不斷的申訴那目前教育部有沒有主動要求介入還是最後都是導師任科學生學務主任自己在承擔呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14718.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14738.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
在這一次校士會在今年一月我們提出了一個變革之後其中針對於老師他們在行政在心理壓力除了給予一些法律輔導諮詢之外行政的減量幫我們在校士會議之間我們禁止所謂的匿名選舉案件的分流增加輔助人 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14738.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14760.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
事後的監督等等就是希望能夠來解決老師在面對校舍會議的無奈我們那時候承諾半年我們1月份實施我們觀察半年之後在7月中我們會有一些檢討分析讓整個校舍會議的一個機制可以更加完善或者說還有在更精進的地方都是我們可以來處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14760.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14790.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
老師我想這個校士會議已經長期對大家所詬病那你們裡面剛才提到的一些比較消極的作為當然從今年1月份你們開始應該要針對積極的作為然後你們也要去評估一下那大家付出的在校士會議裡面的成本或因為校士會議而引發的整個社會成本那這個部分不是只有風險評估而已那究竟這樣子的成本符不符合我們教育的本質我覺得要很大的一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14790.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14812.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
所以教師的身心健康不是只依賴個人的調適那麼出現這麼多次那麼多我剛才所講的個案你們是不是應該建立一些相關的指引讓教育局處也能夠主動的介入你們應該做最大的支持而不是互推來提供法律心理還有行政跟代理人力的一個支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14813.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14831.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
那保護學生跟支持教師不衝突但是沒有安全的教師工作環境我想整個教育品質就會大打折扣那這個部分可不可以請你我知道你們可能七月會有一個結果那這個結果出來的時候是不是同步可以讓本席的研究室這邊有相關的這個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14832.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14848.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
有沒有跟委員報告 另外我會補充我應該很關心對老師的一個支持制度事實上剛剛提到這邊如果萬一老師在班級上遇到一些衝突或是破壞行為我們在113年已經有讓老師他可以有一些強制 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14849.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14864.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
如果你們在113年已經有這樣子的相關的規定然後這些事情還層出不窮我想你們就要同步的去研究一下為什麼你們的規定在這幾年還是有這麼大的衝擊所以可能要再更積極處理然後時效上也必須要更積極一點要不然常常碰到這樣一個問題已經好幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14875.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14876.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
第二部分是有關於電競專班本席要提到一個健康防護的問題目前我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14893.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14906.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
在這個做電子競技運動的發展基本法的一個修法的這個那個法的討論那麼電競又成為一個焦點那本席這邊針對健康防護其實是長期以來一直關心的這個問題那2017年運動產業的發展條例也讓電競成為體育的一個項目但是目前高職的電競專班都依附在設計科資料處理科等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14923.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14941.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
電競也從電腦的遊戲端轉向了手機所以很重要一點說電競選手的傷害往往不是只有傳統運動常看到的急性扭傷或肌肉撕裂而是長時間高頻率還有低負荷的重複性的微創傷所以可能會出現這個彎道道 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14943.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14963.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
对不起 碗碎到的这个症候群还有肌腱的退化还有神经的压迫那么手游的选手可能会因为长时间低头造成颈椎压力然后会因为双手悬空的操作导致筋膜疼痛那么大拇指肌的这个负荷然后甚至连国际的顶尖选手Faker都因为 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14964.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14987.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
這樣子的傷而停賽所以這些問題不一定是明顯或及時所以本席要請教教育部三個問題第一個教育部是不是有盤點目前高中職電競專班的健康管理機制那第二個部分是你們會不會要求電競專班正式納入生理防護的課程包括知識管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14987.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14988.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
是不是請市長這邊做一個回應好 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15008.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15026.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
各位委員報告目前我們確實沒有針對高中者電競專班這些進行盤點那由委員再提醒之後我們會依照委員的建議盤點完之後跟運動部這邊來討論怎麼樣在運動的環附跟選走身心健康這個部分來予以協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15027.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15049.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
好 謝謝次長那本席非常關心這個運動防護的部分然後電競又因為是一個在這個領域比較新的一個概念所以既然我們承認電競是運動產業的一員所以謝謝你這邊的回應那我們對於運動科學在電競專班這個部分的一個課程跟處理我想教育部這邊積極來跟運動部來做討論是 沒問題 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15058.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15085.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
好 謝謝今天登記的委員質詢已經發言完畢 詢問結束對委員質詢時要求提供相關資料以及未及答覆的請相關機關盡速以書面答覆另有委員附婚期01僅提出書面資料列入記錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆繼續進行法案逐條審查未利於 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15087.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15103.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
我們討論我們準備協商的場地那我也希望說先休息那我們休息到下午兩點然後繼續來進行法案主要審查大家先行用餐謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15107.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15108.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
感谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15524.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15524.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
17128.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
17130.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
19837.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
19849.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
好 現在繼續開會補充介紹下午來列席的教育部張亮萬堅次長現在進行法案主條審查請議事人員宣讀條文並進行討論與協商討論時如果有新的修正動議請一併宣讀討論時請參閱教育部提供的 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
19867.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
19868.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
提會討論版本書面資料並列入公報紀錄請深讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
19876.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
19905.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
高級中等教育法第20條委員柯之恩等18人提案第二項第二行目修正委由校長林聘具有輔導任成及專業智能教師兼任之其一未修正委員吳佩儀等提案第二項第二行目修正委由校長依學生輔導法第9條第三項林聘之其一未修正委員柯之恩等19人提案第二項莫增訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
19906.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
19922.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
但高級中等學校之不別包含國民教育及高級中等教育學校的優先於學生輔導法及其相關規定辦理及未修正委員郭清威等提案同委員柯志安等19人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
19932.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
19953.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
高級中等教育法第十八條文言劃分為兩個提案,徵定第二項,請向就學代表致力行為教育部編入一項宣揚補助學生相關方法和教育部訂正文言維修證。委員都聽過本提案的作為一段。第一項中段徵定,代表徵行有教育部政府編列補助學生相關方法和教育部編組。 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
19954.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
19955.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
祈福 祈福 祈福 祈福 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
19969.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
19985.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
維園區修理針等級案 維園科技化等級案 自強等級案第一項 冬斷針定 行政管理行為主管制法 另一項 維生 行為維修正維園 主管制法等級案 針定第二項 優雅教育 本金 攀陷網絡 期間之力行為自治 追悟 經營 建構 學問 完成 立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
19996.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
20020.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
好現在進行高級中等教育法第20條條文修正逐條審查第20條條文修正由委員柯志恩等18人委員柯志恩等19人委員吳佩奕等18人及羅廷瑋17人等4個提案請問提案說委員有沒有現場要補充或者是有意見的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
20024.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
20051.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
都沒有意見那我表達意見那20條呢因為其實有許多的委員有4個委員有提出版本那也希望說能夠再繼續政黨協商的時候能夠再來好好的談所以今天有接到其他的委員的意見是希望能夠保留送協商好那現場如果大家都沒有意見的話我們是不是就保留送協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
20055.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
20082.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
好 審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響條文文義的前提下文字調適標點符號為統一體例那授權議事人員處理列入紀錄本案逐條均已處理完畢作以下的宣告高級中等教育法第20條條文修正相關修正草案我們全部要送 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
20083.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
20093.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
以全部審查完畢 並按擬據審查報告提請院會公決本案須交由黨團後續協商院會討論時 由羅昭紀委員 庭委補充說明好 這一案先這樣處理我們到時候再來協商的時候 再來繼續討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
20109.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
20131.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
好繼續進行高級中等教育法第58條條文修正逐條審查第58條條文修正有委員王洪輝等21人24人等11個提案以及委員陳秀寶等人委員羅廷偉徐欣穎等人所提修正案請問提案委員有沒有要補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
20135.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
20149.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
好 也沒有齁那我們請相關的部會機關請說 謝謝我們現在是高級中等教育法第58條條文修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
20154.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
20161.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
委員不好意思 剛剛有問現在已經換機關了不好意思 不好意思還是先請機關先講 抱歉抱歉因為剛剛問的時候 委員剛好是不是先請機關說明一下再請委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
20179.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
20205.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
好 那這個條文那就是配合整體學生的需求國家發展的需要以及現行其實在政策上也已經觸步這個方向那我們建議可以並同那個大學還有專科學校法並同一起來處理那麼它有它的一致性那建請委員會參考 補充完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
20208.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
20214.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
好那接下來請委員委員有沒有要說明好歸請委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
20215.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
20243.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
好 第58條那最主要是這個高中職的課程已經高度依賴這個數位的資訊那如果沒有把那個電腦的資訊納入我是特別在我的版本裡面其實也有提到這個雖然今天沒有病案審查但是實際上對於所謂的弱勢學生比較容易面臨所謂的這個數位的落差那我當然也是主張可以這個明文化那保障這一類的這個基本的一個條件可以得到一個支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
20244.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
20263.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
那另外就是目前還款的這個階段的這個協助還是依賴這個行政的措施所以如果將這個還款的協助措施也納入母法來授權的一個範圍應該也可以比較有延續性好 謝謝再來陳秀白委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
20266.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
20293.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
謝謝主席在第58條的這部分我提的修正動議主要就是針對學生新增在電腦通訊網路通訊使用費以及還有一個還款協助措施希望說我們協助到學生的部分除了說他本身在貸款的部分還有後續整個還款的協助我們是有方案的因為每個學生的可能狀態不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
20293.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
20302.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
那所以說我們相關的還款協助措施對他日後他本身對這個還款的規劃我想這樣的協助也是很必要的以上羅志強委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
20310.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
20324.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
我想今天我們這個尤其是就學貸款本黨提出來的希望能夠就是免利率的這個部分我想引一段話大家知道這件事的重要性現下就業環境不佳 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
20325.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
20344.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
不僅是應屆大學生面臨畢業及失業的窘境那剛畢業12年的學生有很多數在求職沒有收入就學貸款零利率可以幫助學生及家庭減輕生活壓力這句話其實是現在的總統在2009年擔任立委的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
20348.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
20374.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
拜訪當時的教育部長鄭瑞成所提出來的所以我們是希望當時他是要求把就學貸款利率調為零來延緩這個還款期限三年讓大學生安心就學那事實上我們是更進一步希望能夠落實這個大概總統最近講的讓年輕人輕裝上陣這樣的一個主張那更何況 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
20375.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
20397.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
近年來由於少子化我們的學生的人數大幅的下降那就學貸款的申請人數也大幅下降所以這時候我認為教育部還是行有餘力能夠擴大透過減輕學貸的壓力這樣一個方式能夠來幫助我們的年輕人出社會以後真真正正可以做到青莊上陣以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
20403.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
20408.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
好 謝謝還有委員嗎 吳思耀委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
20409.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
20436.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
這個條文因為比較遺憾的是剛剛修保委員是用修正動力的東西提出因為我們六位委員的版本執政郎版本並沒有被排進來所以我們只能夠用修正動力的方式內容就如剛剛修正文字是修保委員有跟大家說明但是這個差別就在這個利息的部分這一次呢我們在新的政策第一個我要講這個在 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
20439.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
20464.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
对于我们的就学贷款目前有申请大概是17.5万人受惠大概占17%就是有申请的话都享有我们现在的就学贷款的优惠而现在我们在今年9月开始我们已经公布的政策是三个面向第一个在学期间全面免息 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
20465.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
20481.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
第二个还款的期限呢宽限的期限延长至毕业后两年第三个还款的利率降一趴到0.775%0.775%这是这一次行政院所提出来的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
20482.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
20510.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
而比照过去长年对于贷款的优惠或是期限的展延都是动用我们行政部门在相关的配套执法里头执行就可以了它不需要细致到把比例把执行面向强制入法所以过去的做法我们的行政办法可以处理编列相关的对应的预算 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
20512.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
20533.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
這是原本的做法那現在在黨的委員們所提案的幾個版本他就跟過去往常的做法是不同的他特別要用修法的方式把它定死所以我覺得在這個做法上是不是需要用修法我是覺得有待相確我個人是保留的 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
20534.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
20547.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
而且不应当用我一再的强调我们用片面修法的方式去增加政府预算的支出去侵害了行政权限的预算权我想这个真的要再三审酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
20548.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
20576.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
那所以個人是反對強制入法那如果要入法的話那就請參採執政黨委員我們六位委員今天的案子沒有排進來但是剛剛陳秀寶委員的文字修正動議的文字就是我們共同的意見他以一個原則性的修法文字授權行政部門來執行所以針對還款協助措施跟其他應經遵循的方向等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
20577.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
20606.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
然後政府可以依這個學生家庭所得或經濟特殊的狀況去做必要的處理授權教育部門去處置就好所以我對於這個修法如果真的要放請參採陳秀寶委員我們民進黨級委員所提的修正文字修正動議那責任幾位委員現在強行入法細節把它入法我真的個人表達反對的意見請大家公決 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
20610.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
20610.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
吳立華委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
20613.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
20637.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
好 謝謝主席趙薇我一樣 我發言是因為那個版本沒有進來啦那我這邊也沒有去做這個修正動議但是我已經在早上的質詢當中有特別就這一些細項來去跟教育部做質詢 關切 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
20639.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
20665.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
那我是意見是表達是說不論是關於學貸的部分或者是做助學的部分現在如果就學貸款辦法或弱勢學生的助學計劃辦法能夠去處理那我是希望說因為項目可能會越來越多就像每一次一發布什麼政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
20666.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
20690.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
我們就會接到一堆電話說落掉什麼落掉什麼那其實我也是覺得說如果最快速的方法就是我們保留一個彈性要求行政單位能夠就現有的這些辦法很快速的去處理那我想這個部分也是大家所樂見的所以我在這邊做這樣的一個意見表達謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
20692.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
20720.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
好 張雅玲委員好 謝謝那因為這個部分我也有提案那我自己的想法也是說因為其實我覺得大家都是考量到學生現場需要協助然後大家其實都很照顧學生的一些權益也很照顧到家庭那我自己也是提了比較原則性的修法因為畢竟助學措施可能會隨著時間的滾動會有變化所以我會認為這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
20721.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
20743.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
定定於執法或是用計劃方式來做滾動的調整會比我們定在魔法上面會更有靈動性也會更積極啦所以我自己會希望說我們就是把它定在原則性的魔法上面就好讓我們未來都會更有彈性這樣子 謝謝好 那委員都發言完 那換我啦齁好 蔡春晝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
20751.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
20758.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
我針對高級中等教育法第二條及第58條因為沒有把我們的法條用進來因為這個有連動性所以我還是在這裡做一個表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
20770.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
20781.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
高級中等教育已經是十二年國民基本教育的一環了學生仍然有可能在雜費、實習費、書籍費、住宿費、生活費、保險費及其他的就學成本政府支持不應該只有停留在免學費 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
20790.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
20808.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
第十五十八條修正的部分除了明定產款期預期由主管機關按年編列的預算負擔外也要求中央主管機關定期檢討申請資格跟家庭所得的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
20812.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
20840.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
斟酌了一个物价的变动还有其他就学相关的一个会用水准家庭的护养的负担还有学生的就学需求来做一个调整 以上好好像现在有修正动议正在印喔可以先给我吗 我先念吧噢 干哪去喔不是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
20843.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
20871.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
好 那我先補充說明我的版本那我想跟村酬委員所提的一樣大學生絕對不會只有就學貸款生活中的所有資應雜費 學習費 書籍費 住宿費 生活費學生團體 保險 海外研修 重讀相關的東西其實都是每一次對於學生生涯當中必要的而且是累積的也會讓他們生活負擔非常的重 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
20872.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
20895.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
那我想所有的委員都有各自的意見但是都希望給孩子給學生更好但中間的過程可能有人是希望用執法有人覺得不行一定要保障在入法裡面所以可能大家各有所見那沒關係我們是不是就應該送保留院會協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
20898.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
20905.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
我想再補充一下如果要強制入母法 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
20914.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
20940.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
它會造成哪些負面的效益我可能還是要補充一下我剛剛沒有提及大家再思考一下就是說政府的資源一定是國家裁員的可行性國家裁員有餘裕那就來做各種貸款各種就學協助的放寬跟加碼所以第一個一定要看國家的裁員所以如果說入母法 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
20940.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
20968.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
那国家裁员有余裕要做的一定要回头再来修母法他反而更不效率更不效率在行政权可以做的他编预算就可以执行所以说如果强制入母法真的反而会让帮助学生的美意被法绑死了第二个我们政府要做的是精准去帮助需要的学生 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
20970.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
20985.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
而不是全面性的這要回到國家的裁員的可行性以現在在就學貸款行政院所宣布的三個提升的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
20985.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
21002.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
预估每年会增加的新增预算是15亿左右这是教育部门审着今年度在新的财务法修正之后然后再编明年的预算可以调派的裁员可行的里头可以做到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
21003.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
21024.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
那如果以在野黨委員所提的版本他會增加政府的支出就貸款這一項每年至少會再加倍增加15、16億所以依據財政紀律法立法委員如果要增加政府預算之支出需要兩件事第一個跟行政部門商議 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
21025.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
21042.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
第二個要找出妥適合理之裁員顯然在黨委員的這個提案剛剛教育部門早上的詢答等一下也可以讓次長來回應應當是沒有跟行政部門有充分的共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
21043.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
21071.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
那在裁员合理的裁员在哪里呢提案的委员显然可能也没有这样子的权力跟能力去提出合适之裁员补充所以真的依法论法我们都不应当来做为了入法而入法而造成实质帮助学生的利益它反而更不效率所以请大家多多的斟酌我们在场委员这边我想丽华秀宝 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
21072.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
21093.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
预情私谣我们都表达是如果要改本来是原维持现行条文就可以啦那如果要改行政院的这个58条的建议文字是不是再让这个教育部回答一下我们再做再商量一下再做最终的决定好吗因为好像没有回应嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
21095.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
21114.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
你要回應嗎 其實可以啊可以啊 這樣張偉跟各位委員報告就是說因為各位可以看到現行法58條它事實上已經有提到說有關就學代管的條件、額度、項目、權利義務及其他應遵循事項由中央主管機關訂資 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
21116.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
21133.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
所以過去不管是委員關心的寬限期的問題或是利息由政府來補貼多少的部分事實上我們都是在就學貸款辦法裡面就可以來實施那剛剛委員有提出來關心學生的一個未來的房款負擔我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
21134.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
21149.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
在兼顧學生的權益跟我們整個財政我想教育部門我們可以根據現行的法就可以朝委員你們提出來的一個期待我們就可以來操作啦所以是不是可以讓我們以現行法的部分那我們以 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
21150.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
21178.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
在斟酌整个财务状况因为现在已经先调降1%了学生还要再负担0.775那未来如果说在学生的一个负担部分我们再持续的做精进这样其实不用修法也可以做到那这样会不会让我们有多一些弹性那包含宽限期也是一样宽限期事实上我们也是可以直接在就学贷款办法在目前的法规授权就可以做了那让行政单位有一些弹性在以上的补充 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
21182.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
21201.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
好 我們羅志強委員我想在座不管是朝野的立法委員還有我們在座的官員 包括召委我想出發點都是一致的因為我們已經真的是看到現在年輕人的困境跟處境那我們需要為他們分擔政府有這個責任跟義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
21203.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
21222.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
那今天說實在話就是說今天這個修法本身那其實就是窮也不能窮學生那苦也不能苦青年所以我覺得行政機關可以把它當作一個非常正面的事情就我們大家一起來把年輕人扛起來這一點我覺得非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
21223.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
21242.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
那過去其實類似的狀況也很多啦我們希望能夠在現在尤其在少子化的過程當中你也發現賴清德總統也很重視他也提出很多的政策那當然那些政策提出來坦白講哪一樣政策提出來沒有國家預算的問題沒有所謂國家經費的問題都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
21243.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
21259.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
但是我們切重時弊覺得最需要幫助的部分我們應該要提出幫助那我覺得有時候我也必須講一點自己的感慨常常我們在野黨立委在為民生再去爭取的時候經常是走在最前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
21260.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
21275.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
好那走到最前面的時候常常也是面臨到包括我們這個執政黨的委員有很多的一些指教好比方說當時的還稅於民還價於民好都發現說都是在野黨立委今天為民之先苦民所苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
21275.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
21300.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
我們提出了很多的政策 當時甚至 抱歉我在還稅愚民在爭取的時候還變成我被罷免的理由可是一旦最後通過之後發現執政黨包括執政黨跟執政黨委員也是歡天喜地的在慶祝所以這次真的是造福人民的一個善舉跟一個公義之舉所以我覺得有些事情其實我們應該要把時間線拉長 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
21301.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
21315.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
今天回到最根本的問題今天以國民黨黨版來說的話貸款利息由政府編列預算全額補貼他到底有沒有辦法實現今天賴清德總統自己揭示的讓年輕人輕裝上陣減少年輕人出社會的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
21319.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
21345.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
他面臨學貸的這樣一個強大的財務壓力所以這樣的進步立法我認為說相關單位應該還是要以正面態度看待當然有不同意見其實本來就是我們今天審查討論的一個大家交換意見的重點那如果真的有意見大家沒有辦法立刻達成共識的話其實我們委員會審查也是第一階段那到時候保留做院會再來討論我們還是有很多交換意見的機會以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
21352.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
21373.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
郭維新委員我想現在的這個目前的學代其實已經有這個授權辦法其實讓教育部來制定那剛剛其實我們多數執政黨委員跟行政部門的一些意見如果召委或是主席不同意的話那我認為這一條是不是就保留好 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
21375.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
21399.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
好 謝謝 我發言啦 因為先不主持啦那我想也是因為許多的學生團體一直不斷的在倡議那我想這個部分還是希望政府能夠看到我們當然相信政府現在目前的制定政策已經有在做部分但是就是因為沒有呼應到整個學生團體的一個需求所以學生團體甚至也召開記者會希望我們能夠協助這個部分所以今天才會再討論這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
21401.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
21415.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
那能夠幫他們爭取更多的權益但是我覺得我想要拋出一個議題也希望教育部好好想一下最近其實有一個議員他提出排二 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
21417.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
21444.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
那我認為有一些不管是教育現場比較狀況非常糟糕的同學有沒有這個機會甚至他違法那當然就是一定就是所謂排二的內容裡面有些樣態是不是有機會如果是排二能夠把他納入我想這也是民眾所能夠樂見的因為如果有一些學生惡劣的惡 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
21445.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
21463.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
對不起因為您的眼神我覺得你好像嚇到我了對不起我以為是你沒有知對不起對不起我想說你怎麼會用那個眼神看我是我講得太扯了嗎沒事沒事原來是文字上大家還沒有惡劣的惡當然有違規違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
21465.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
21486.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
甚至是屢勸不聽影響上課甚至就是整個造成教育現場的困境的時候這政府不應該去幫助這樣子的學生那能不能有這個排二的狀況能夠把他列入到我們不應該去讓他享受後續的一些優惠福利我覺得這也可以給孩子一個警惕 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
21487.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
21511.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
因為我們也有另外一個教育惡劣的現場就是學生不怕寄警告不怕寄大過當然大學的部分有所謂的退學啦當然這個部分我都知道只是我說像這種福利優惠有沒有機會也有排二的機制出來我也希望請我們教育部的主管機關應該能夠納入以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
21514.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
21526.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
好剛剛有委員提出保留齁送院會處理那我想今天大家都非常的認真而且都提出自己的各自見解那因為沒有很多太多的交集所以我們就保留送院會處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
21529.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
21549.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
好 審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響條文文藝前提之下文字調適以及標點符號為統一體力授權議事人員整理列入紀錄本案主條已處理完畢作以下宣告高級中等教育法第58條條文相關修正草案已全部審查完略並按擬拒審查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
21551.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
21561.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
你請公會公決對不起 院會公決本案須交由黨團協商院會討論時由羅昭吉委員庭委做補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
21570.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
21593.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
好 繼續進行盜寫法第35條條文逐條審查第35條條文修正有委員柯志恩等16人等16個提案以及委員陳秀寶等人所提的修正動議以及委員吳思瑤所提出的修正動議以及委員羅廷偉所提出的修正動議以上請委員發言謝謝 我們陳秀寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
21602.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
21618.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
謝謝老師在這個部分第三十五條的部分我提的修正動議跟剛才的高級中等學教育法的第五十八條一樣就是要加入現在學生他們在學習上相關的就是像電腦網路通訊使用費以及我們後續的還款協助措施這個部分都應該要我們有個辦法來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
21628.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
21656.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
另外呢在下面呢我也再增加了就是比较特殊的状况政府应该依学生家庭所得或其他突发经济不利情况提供经济不利处境学生助学措施其助学条件额度权利义务及其他应遵行事项之办法由教育部定职那其实从刚才的58条到现在我们要讲的第35条大学法第35条 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
21659.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
21675.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
我一直從今天早上的質詢到現在我一直強調說訂定一個概括性的條文就是授權給教育部這邊來訂相關的一些辦法不要直接用法律去明遞各種的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
21676.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
21677.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
好 國益卿委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
21709.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
21729.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
好 這邊其實我的版本沒有被納入不過剛剛echo一下這個修保委員他提的這個修正動議那剛剛有特別提到這個數位學習其實已經是一個常態了那電腦跟網路的這樣子的一個基本學習的一個配備其實我們也希望能夠提案能夠進入所謂的這個貸款的這個項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
21730.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
21753.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
那另外就是我們把這個還款的協助還款協助的一個措施這個授權讓這個教育部能夠針對就是職場初期的一些青年提供更具有韌性的一個支持的一個機制那在這個地方其實我比較主張是原則入法啦那就是民定政府照顧弱勢的一個責任但是呢比 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
21754.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
21772.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
整個所有這個條文裡頭我看到其他人的版本就是把那些具體的數字寫在那個上面可能會比較具有彈性因為我們可能會隨著物價的波動還來做這個滾動式的一個調整然後那所以我不傾向把這些具體的數字放在這裡面好以上好我是藥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
21777.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
21805.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
好謝主席這個提案一樣民進黨的六位委員的版本都被排除沒有列進來我們不得已只好用修正動議的方式來提出那條文的徵典大概是四項第一項就是就學貸款的免利息那這個部分如果就這個版本加進來的話如果通過的話是增加政府支出是7億左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
21806.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
21826.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
我先就裁员的部分来讲第二块是有两个版本一个是对于调整免纳学费的标准柯志文委员所提的是家庭所的金额适用税率12%的这一类的话那他大概含扩率会高达九成以上的大学学生 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
21827.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
21849.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
所以这样的话预算增加的是挺高的政府的支出一年大概会增加400亿左右我想教育部门等一下可以说明一下那如果是罗廷伟委员的提案呢还包括其他委员的提案譬如说叶元之委员都是把家庭所得用五等分的最低20%来调整免纳学费的标准的话 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
21850.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
21871.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
那增加政府裁员的部分就小一点但也是一个可观的数字每年大概增加100亿左右那第四个争点就在对于哪些学生他可以来办理就学贷款的这个资格就是家庭所得总额的这个这个标准 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
21872.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
21881.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
是150萬以上以下三億黨委員有這樣的標準但是因為現在我們能夠適用的就學貸款的學生的額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
21882.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
21905.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
是120万左右对120还128120那如果说真的还有需要的学生他其实也可以去走弱势所需要的特殊的那个路径所以政府在现行的政策教育部是尽可能都帮助只要有需要有贷款需求的我们都可以用各种行政工具帮助他 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
21905.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
21931.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
可以带得到减轻他的负担所以现在呢来讨论的几位国民党级委员所提的提案还是会回到我们虽然要增加对于学生的照顾但是在预算的增加的部分还有是不是一定要用强制入法的方式还是授权行政部门在财政有余裕的时候就可以随时机动的来做他更快速 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
21932.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
21943.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
更可以精准的照顾到需要的学生他会优于强制的入法所以民进党的委员的几位的提案我们都参采一个原则性的入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
21944.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
21963.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
那都是希望给行政部门更大的弹性快速及时精准的照顾需要被扩大照顾的学生反而真的为了入法而入法可能会去延宕了政策上路的效益所以这个部分我们都保留对于几位 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
21964.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
21980.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
在野黨委員提案的內容那如果要真的要講是柯志文委員的版本要走還是羅廷偉教委的版本要走這恐怕大家也還沒有共識啦所以這個我是認為這個條文都應當審酌一下如果真的要修請參裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
21981.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
22005.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
行政院跟我們幾位委員共同討論出來的一個原則性的條款那條文已經在題會討論的版本裡頭來列出來政府因依學生家庭所得或其突發經濟不利情況提供經濟不利處境學生助學措施其助學條件額度權利義務及其他應盡 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
22007.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
22034.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
事項之辦法由教育部定之我想這樣的文字是非常的周延而且可行而且真的可以有效照顧到學生以上報告 謝謝主席好 吳麗華委員好 謝謝趙偉主席那一樣原本有版本但是現在用修正動議那針對這個部分呢意見其實跟前面的幾位講的都差不多我是增加了第三款 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
22036.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
22061.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
那就是在给他做一个原则性的明确的文字就是政府可以依学生家庭所得或其他经济状况提供经济不利处境的学生住学的措施那至于住学的条件额度权利义务跟其他应遵行的事项就是定一个办法另定之那我还是延续刚刚说法 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
22061.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
22089.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
既然學大也好 助學也好現行就已經有辦法那這個部分還是希望教育部能夠就我們所關心的目前學生所關心的等等都能夠把它完備由教育部來定那我自己是有增加不一樣的條文就是如果涉及到原住民的部分由教育部會同中央原住民族主管機關要共同定制做這樣的意見表達 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
22092.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
22093.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
好 蔡順昭委員就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
22100.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
22105.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
大審法第35條 這個台灣民眾黨也有黨本在這裡再做一個說明大學生就學貸款制度是要有一個母法依據大學生面臨的一個協會 住宿 生活費還有畢業 初期就業的一個壓力如果學貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
22125.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
22128.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
救血貸款保障不足將會影響親人的生血、就業、成家還有職業的選擇所以救血貸款自貸款日至償還期算 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
22142.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
22156.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
日前之利息應該由各主管機關按年編列預算來負擔是把盛行的一個制度中最直接影響協生負擔的部分提升到母法的一個層次 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
22159.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
22164.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
教育部也應該要定期檢討救血貸款申請資格還有他的家庭守得的標準並且要斟酌物價的變動 基礎成本還有家庭撫養負擔的調整使救血貸款的制度能夠回應到社會經濟的變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
22183.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
22197.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
所以呢大學的攜帶呢不是一般商業的一個貸款而是國家來協助協助學生完成高等教育的一個重要的一個制度學生呢尚未進入產完期以前由主管機關來負擔利息符合教育評審還有人才培育的本質我想讓學生能夠安心他就能夠潛力以赴來求學這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
22210.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
22236.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
我們應該要給學生的一個保障以上可以嗎袁志偉你要不要讓他們先回應你再看著他們的回應再繼續說您的說法好不好好來我們教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
22237.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
22256.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
趙偉還有各位委員 針對剛才所提的幾項措施裡頭那確實在那個有關於免學費的這一塊的基準的一個設定確實會增加我們的一個財政上面的一些支出那這個部分也請委員做審酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
22257.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
22274.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
那針對其他像蔡委員所提到的目前我們在學期間貸款的人數大概是23萬人他的利息全部都已經由政府來負擔那這個也是定在我們的就學辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
22274.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
22297.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
所以只要透過相關的就學貸款的辦法其實這些行政作為就可以達到委員提案所達成的目的所以剛才像四要委員幾位委員所建議的用規範性原則性的文字再透過授權辦法的方式來執行這個可以及時的來回應整個社會的一個需求以上補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
22299.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
22304.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
好 那補充吳立華委員也有修正動議我們大學發35條 一併討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
22309.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
22336.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
跟張偉報告一下就是說我再補充一塊就是說剛剛我們幾位委員提到的其實這條修法有兩個重點一個就是有關就學貸款一個是有關全免學費那就學貸款來講目前委員提的版本有關於寬限期的延長以及貸款的學生在學的期間免利息報告再遵從委員剛剛提的這個都已經目前在527之後就已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
22337.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
22354.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
那個已經推動了 都推動了現在唯一的還要希望保留給行政機關斟酌是剛剛羅志強跟昭緯這邊提到的全面免利息的部分雖然我們現在是調降1%那羅委員昭緯這邊是希望能夠在是不是可以全免 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
22354.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
22378.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
我們是比較期待說是不是我們可以用因為我們現在就學貸管制有授權辦法了讓我們行政部門可以依照學生的一個需求跟財政狀況我們來做滾動的調整我想這是第一個說明第二個說明就是免納學費這一塊包含柯政委員跟昭偉這邊提的版本我們是希望能夠用第三項剛剛其實委員也提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
22379.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
22396.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
是不是一樣 也像就學貸款一樣用一個授權辦法 讓我們去參酌像張偉提出來的按照家庭收入五等份的後20%我們可以參考那個部分來訂一些有關於學費減免要全免或是減免多少用這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
22397.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
22414.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
授權辦法不能讓教育部一樣有一些斟酌的空間依照我們的時事變更來做處理所以如果可以的話我們是期待說委員是不是可以支持行政部門以這樣的方法來照顧學生以上報告好 葉遠之委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
22419.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
22434.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
那個剛剛次長其實有講啦其實有關於免除學費跟學貸利息減免的部分其實行政機關都要做啦只是現在差別是做多做少的問題嘛那做多做少牽涉到預算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
22435.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
22448.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
那我是覺得如果行政機關也想要做因為現在我們整個政府的對於教育的方向是教育平權嘛所以才會有補助學費這些那既然要做其實我們把它入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
22449.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
22466.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
在大學法裡面做明定的規範它更能夠彰顯我們現在政府想要做教育平權這件事情所以我覺得這個次長講的其實跟我們要推的這個法案沒有衝突啦把它入法其實我是覺得更代表我們對這個事情更加重視那第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
22467.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
22485.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
做多做少就牽涉到預算啦那其實預算如果夠的話當然我們是希望給學生更好的幫助嘛一定就是這樣子啦不要讓學生畢業就背一堆學貸然後背債出社會其實壓力蠻大的那預算的部分其實我 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
22487.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
22499.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
呼應一下剛剛羅志強委員所講的常常就是我們在推東西的時候都會說沒有預算像前一段時間國民黨黨團也有召開一個記者會說我們想要推那個未來帳戶去照顧年輕的爸媽0到15歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
22504.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
22530.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
一個月五千塊嘛零到六月再加強托育然後托育一年好像四萬塊等等那個時候民進黨就罵我們就是說財政機率呢錢在哪裡難道錢花了就能解決少子化的問題嗎就一直在批評結果沒兩天賴清德總統就宣布了零到十八歲一個月五千塊花的錢是差不多錢又出現了然後呢就可以解決少子化的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
22531.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
22554.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
所以有時候我們覺得很奇怪為什麼同樣的東西國民黨在黨提就問題一大堆執政黨提一樣的東西就沒問題所以我還是希望說我們可以仔細的去思考說這個事情該不該做啦如果該做的話我相信行政部門就能夠找到預算嘛那這個部分也可以請教育部去跟行政院去爭取嘛該做我們就做啦謝謝好 羅思強委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
22557.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
22587.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
我也是呼籲一下葉元之委員事實上有時候在野黨確實在接觸很多民生議題上我們會有比執政黨可能有更多的一些前瞻性所以大家可以看到像少子化問題的嚴重也是在野黨我們不斷去提出來的其實今天嚴格來講今天包括學貸跟學費的減免當你能夠去減輕年輕人出社會的負擔其實也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
22588.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
22609.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
呼應了賴清德總統後來所揶揄的他要來去挽救少子化危機的它是正相關的那為什麼剛剛特別講說我覺得在場的官員也好或執政黨委員也好其實可以稍微稍微記取一下過去發生的經驗那每次在野黨提出很多前瞻性的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
22609.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
22639.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
那都是第一時間先用財政預算先用不要立法先用各種一些程序理由來開始攻擊、批評或是阻擋可是等到最後就發現說賴總統自己都崇善如流啊我們提了很多的政見、政策他都採用啊或是我們被罵過以後的政見然後等到真的通過前面我講還稅餘名、還假名都是一樣的事情啊我最後就看到我們的執政黨委員歡欣鼓舞簡直是在放鞭炮 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
22639.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
22663.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
一樣在慶祝啦那我覺得像同樣今天從年輕人的角度我們當然知道財政部分會有一些預算要必須要增加可是大家有沒有想過今天政府我們的財政的膨脹的速度現在膨脹的速度已經一年的預算是三兆還不含特別預算過去已經是將近快要是成長了百分之四十五十都有以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
22664.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
22682.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
那這種情況之下難道不能夠為我們的年輕人多增加一點那最後當然要用什麼方式這是我們今天可以討論啦可是我還是贊成剛剛我們葉元之委員講的今天修進法律它其實會增加我們行政機關來去執行的積極性 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
22684.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
22698.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
那這個積極性這是第一個重點那第二個重點是它也會讓我們大家知道我們政府 立法院跟我們的行政院重視今天年輕人出社會以後的社會負擔問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
22699.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
22714.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
所以這個它就有不只是在法律在所謂的政策推動上的它揭示的積極性它同時也有所謂的宣示性那這是為什麼今天我們要提出這個學貸三法希望能夠來減輕年輕人負擔的一個初衷 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
22716.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
22740.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
那我真的是真誠的希望不要又是變成以前這個狀況那很多的理由到最後發現都不存在最後一樣是來跟進那當然晚跟進總比從頭到尾不跟進好啦所以就算是晚跟進那我們也是一樣保持肯定啦所以這是以上我覺得還是要補充一下葉元智委員所說的以上好 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
22742.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
22771.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
是不是因為大家都發言一輪讓我先發言再發言第二輪好嗎那我想這個議題呢我們之前也有做詢答那我印象也很深刻當時在討論五等份的時候後20%這個部分當時其實教育部並沒有很直接的回應這個部分所以剛剛次長的意思是說覺得採用五等份的方式最低20%是比較這個框架內的同學比較可以接受的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
22774.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
22796.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
委員報告就是說因為如果我們把這樣的標準寫在法裡面他們有兩個意義但是你們大概也會朝這個方向我們可以參考這樣子的五等份的分配傾向這個部分是不是可以放在立法說明我們如果用一些授權的原則但是我們立法說明去寫說我們可以參考收支所的或是家庭所的五等份 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
22797.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
22823.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
沒關係我大概知道因為我原本的說法就是說你們在幫助大學生的時候所分的這個項目我認為不夠紮實所以當時我們提出了用五等份的部分所以今天我是特別希望能夠入法但你是正面回應說會參考這個方向但是我是擔憂啦但沒關係至少開始有共識有交集了 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
22824.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
22853.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
就是五等份後20%那也希望說後續能夠真正落實到學童他們孩童他們對不起大學生了已經不是學童大學生他們的需求跟他們的困境所以我們是真的遇到蠻多其實我坦白講也不是執政黨委員不認真是有時候他們也有執政黨的包袱所以有一些他沒辦法通過沒辦法幫助同學的時候他有他的困境那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
22855.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
22884.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
許多的學生團體他就跑來拜託我們嘛跑來一直陳情一直陳情但是我聽說私底下也有學生團體在講有一些執政黨委員也認同但我們希望能夠把這個事情促成但沒關係今天所有的委員各自有各自意見但利益良善大家都希望是為了孩子那是不是我就因為剛剛有委員在講我們是不是就保留一下送院會協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
22885.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
22892.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
好 吳校委員好 謝謝昭偉這個部分我想我們大家再釐清一下下 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
22894.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
22919.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
如果說召委可以同意把剛剛您所說的五等分的那個部分用教育部建議的修正條文條文本文是用原則性的概括性的修法第三項的部分但是把召委還有像葉任志委員所提的五等分的最末20%的擴大照顧的部分放在第35條的立法說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
22922.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
22946.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
那也是一個相當高效率的來責成行政部門來落實我覺得如果可以的話這個部分大家有共識那我覺得今天也許這一條可以不用送學商可以直接達成一個共識那我覺得審條文審法案就是這樣我們一直在說立法委員可以提我們有質詢權我們可以審預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
22949.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
22973.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
我們可以透過各種提案的全力去跟行政部門對話讓行政部門把好的政策擴大照顧的福祉能夠落實但是即便是提出修法的文字也是應當跟行政部門共同研商在裁員可行的方式之下那大家一起來推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
22974.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
22999.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
那显然如果说在行政部门认为现有的裁员真的是还需要商着的话那强制入法我想这个就真的是大家还需要一点时间来汇聚共识那至少在大学法35条的这一部分刚刚你听到罗昭伟所提到对于参考主计总处公告家庭收支调查报告之家庭所得五等分 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
23000.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
23025.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
的五等分位的最末20%的部分能够来用立法说明责成行政部门未来来进行处理跟调配然后甚至可以因应其他突发的经济不利的状况扩大保障学生的权利我是想在主席才是要交付协商保留之前再争取一下如果能够的话 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
23026.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
23034.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
修正條文能不能夠參照教育部所提的這個方式我再爭取一下那這樣今天大家應當有一些比較正面的進展好 還有委員有意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
23041.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
23064.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
好 那我想知識體大那這件事情趁有共識我還是希望能夠趁共識繼續追擊為學生的福利然後能夠最大化所以有一些更細節的文字我覺得今天還需要更多的討論我們再想想所以就保留吧送院會協商 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
23069.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
23090.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
這是蠻可惜的主席不再思考一下嗎我們都講成這樣我們都有共識了而且是參採您的意見的共識您又不要從頭我們的意見你都覺得不要我再商量一下不會說他不要所以我也要參考你們的意見我不能夠自己決定一定要過所以就是願會保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
23090.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
23109.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
那因為我是覺得要寫在左邊啊您是覺得要寫在右邊那就不一樣了左邊是寫在法令嘛您寫在那個立法說明剛剛是您的發言說說明也可以參裁不是嗎不是我是先詢問他他是不是可以參裁那趁有共識我更覺得可以立法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
23110.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
23136.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
對不對 孤有所云 趁盛追擠幹今天不是趁盛追擠 我是趁共識繼續謀取最大的學生福利對 對 對 你跟剛剛說的不太一樣好吧 這個 我是覺得 對 對 對好吧 那個保留當然就 好不好 我們休息三分鐘好 休息三分鐘 教育部再好好跟剛剛那個趙偉他本來說的共識可以再溝通一下 好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
23270.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
23287.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
好 我們現在繼續開會欸 還在休息時間直接開會好嗎可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
23306.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
23323.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
所以你們現在是又在提出修正動議嗎一個是專科學校法一個是大學法這個是附帶決議是建議說是不是用附帶決議的方式再加上立法說明那這樣子先處理35條大學法那因為剛剛郭育群委員又有提出了修正附帶決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
23328.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
23332.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
我們現在35條除了剛剛有建議說我們在立法說明加上說會參考無家庭無等費數跟累積稅率以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
23344.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
23346.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
當然我們現在第35條條文修正草案的附帶決議還是要條文有確定逐條通過才有附帶決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
23369.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
23384.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
那也看到我們現場所提的附帶決議那因為剛剛休息的時候有稍微再討論一下那也要跟大家特別報告因為我想這個部分還是要再跟更多的委員達成共識我想這個姿勢體大 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
23386.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
23410.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
不是我們現在可以馬上決定的那我想我們還是政黨協商再處理謝謝那是不是就保留送院會處理等一下主席再商量一下我們在場的委員有幾位我們都努力認真在這裡審查嘛然後我們講完然後你都說還要跟更多的委員那我們在場的委員的意見你都不參查一下而且剛剛教育部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
23411.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
23426.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
不管是修法然後入這個說明的文字或者是一加一再補強一個附帶決議都是參採了主席您的建議所以我們其實都支持啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
23427.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
23437.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
我們都支持啊 張偉我們都支持您這邊的原則性的東西大家難得有這個共識所以我就一再都強調說執政黨不是不做事所以我們討論 對不起這句話講的不對什麼叫執政黨不做事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
23443.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
23467.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
對不起 我收回我說執政黨的委員也很關心我們都很認真在共同討論那也有幫忙協助處理是啊 所以如果能夠有這個好的共識的話就早上我想跟您解釋不是我們不復議事那我們現在可以決定嗎你有先簽不復議我們才跟著不復議才沒有進來就請你不要誤會沒關係啊 那個法案沒關係啊那個都已經 我們已經坐在這裡就是用但是你們的修正動議很豐富就是在幫忙發聲嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
23468.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
23482.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
所以那一趴我們已經都用修正動力我們已經反正就已經在進入條文了前情不用再提要了OKOKOK那我就是所以參賽您的建議可不可以就這樣過真的真的真的稍微 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
23486.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
23509.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
我們尊重您的提案的建議我只能講說真的不是我一個人能決定的所以這個部分還請委員我們在場的委員那因為小朋友對不起大學生的這一個知識體大我想很多的團體一直在特別給予很多委員的期待所以這個部分那加委員會的討論是不是大家就是坐在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
23510.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
23525.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
那沒關係 私下委員先等一下我們先請羅志祥委員 他有舉手了首先第一個 當然我覺得大家有共識希望在 尤其在這個學貸也好 學費減免也好給我們學生多一點幫助跟鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
23525.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
23555.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
那我看現在大概就是意思是說要用立法還是用立法說明來處理這件事情但是我要特別講一下就是說事實上我覺得以所謂的那個立法例來講的話立法說明其實並不適宜去把一些政策明確化來在立法說明立法說明當然就想為什麼要立法他去講問題的意思然後包括達成的目的政策的目標現行制度有什麼要改變的還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
23555.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
23577.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
歷史的一個緣由所以它其實通常是比較抽象性因此如果說真的今天從政策的角度我們要以法律作為政策後盾的角度來講的話它應該還是要修進法條裡面我覺得這才是正辦所以這倒是跟政策覺得朝委有沒有共識我覺得有共識是好事但是以立法手段來講我個人還是認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
23579.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
23605.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
用法律條文來規範是比較合宜的當然也尊重我們現在其他委員的意見所以光這個放在哪個部分既然也有大家不太相同的意見的話那我覺得那個主席用保留的方式我覺得也是一個處理的方式 以上我另外跟現場的委員另外報告我們現在不是只有要不要入法跟要不要入再說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
23606.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
23626.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
我們現在是剛剛才處理到要不要五等分後20%還有一些文字細節包括我寫的免納資學費教育部編列預算免於繳納註冊時要撥經費其實這些細部的文字也是在我入法的時候我比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
23627.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
23649.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
很希望精準來處理的所以剛剛教育部只是承諾了比如說我的需求的三分之一所以這也是我不敢立即馬上答應因為剛剛只有五等分放到立法說明所以我覺得這個時間點我不敢答應要保留謝謝 吳世耀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
23650.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
23668.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
謝主席我再補充說明一下大學法35條有三項第一項大家都同意不動第二項就是要增加政府為協助學生就讀大學應辦理哪些事情會增加一個電腦及網路通訊使用費這個要增加然後上面這些費用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
23675.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
23692.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
貸款條件額度權利義務跟還款協助措施及其他應遵行事項之辦法由教育部定制這是第二項的修正文字非常明確第三項要增修的文字我還是因為都已經在題會討論的版本很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
23692.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
23720.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
但我还是要再花一点时间来说明有助于大家理解第三项的文字是政府因依学生家庭所得或其他突发经济不利情况提供经济不利处境学生助学措施其助学条件额度权利义务及其他因遵行事项制办法由教育部定制这个是某法增订第三项的条文所以才会因为增订了这第三项我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
23720.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
23738.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
到底这些应遵行事项的内涵是什么我们把它放在立法说明它是一个延伸而且它一样就是入法的法律效力好我们来看看在立法说明里头为了增订第三项我们增加的文字是立法说明的第二点 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
23739.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
23740.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
请看下半段另立办法 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
23758.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
23772.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
據已執行以及時因應國內家庭所得的狀況例如參朝組織總署公告家庭收支調查報告之家庭所得五等分位這就是主席您的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
23773.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
23790.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
然後這些東西都很清楚的依附於增訂第三項然後擴充說明在立法說明的文字裡頭它其實是入母法而且有說明很清楚這第一件事情所以也達到了主席希望責成 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
23792.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
23816.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
教育部門往這個方向去推進的政策方向達到了第二個如果委員們覺得這個還不夠我們剛剛也簽署了一個通過這個修正條文的附帶決議一加一one plus one會更有力更有效力的去責成行政部門做所以我覺得有入門法 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
23818.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
23843.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
然後有補強了修正動議這都彰顯立法院教育文化委員會跨黨派委員對於照顧學生的這個努力真的是還是要補充說明啦好 那我們不厭其煩溝通嘛那看主席是這樣的說明夠不夠清楚還是您覺得還是沒有辦法決定我覺得是非常清楚啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
23847.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
23861.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
張偉跟各位報告就是說其實我跟委員的版本的提案都非常的仔細包含說連免納學費之後要由教育部來編列預算補助學生而且應該在註冊時就先減免等於說不要讓學生還要先繳 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
23864.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
23880.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
之後我們再補給他那這個部分都是學生團體來跟我們溝通那我也跟我們報告目前我們政府各類的學雜費減免從低收入戶到身心障礙學生甚至到原住民我們都是採取修憲預扣起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
23881.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
23907.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
不會讓學生負擔所以委員可以放心就是說如果我們將來在執行這一條我們一樣在委員關心的不要讓學生先繳我們再補給他這個部分我們現在都已經在繳費的當下就先幫學生都預扣掉了所以這個部分我們是有現行規定可以參考啦所以希望說委員可以放心說下一步在執行這一塊因為在其他的學障人費減免都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
23907.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
23908.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
23920.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
23941.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
我想A口一下就是剛剛司法委員有特別說到我想這個第35條既然其實我們已經把這樣子的一個整個算是概劃性的非常重要的一個方向寫在35條上那這個所謂的這個立法說明其實它也是在這樣子的一個架構當中去補強就是剛剛這個趙偉您的這個修法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
23946.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
23967.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
立容跟這樣子的一個條件那大家其實都往這個部分再往前進了那後面我們再就是另外再提了一個就是我們的這個附帶決議我想這個是一加一啦那我相信這個絕對是有非常重要的一個指標性的一個第三十五條我們的立法的一個精神啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
23967.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
23984.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
那我想大家既然都是非常關心這樣子的一個狀況跟這樣子的問題那其實大家也都往這個方向去調整那我相信這個方向其實應該其他的委員應該也都同意啦那現在就是看昭偉您的意見好吧跟郭委員報告因為剛剛還是有其他委員表達出不同的意見啦不是只有我啦跟不好意思不好意思好那因為大家委員都非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
23998.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
24018.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
積極的表達自己的意見那也因為有不同的意見所以做主席我還是要跟大家說聲我們就是保留送院會處理那再來整合大家的意見到時候政黨協商那郭玉琴委員所提出的附帶決議一併保留那我們都尊重大家的意見所以一併保留到時候一併再來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
24020.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
24046.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
審查結果免於重複宣讀再不影響條文文藝前提下文字條次及標點符號為統一提立授權議事人員處理列入紀錄本案逐條已處理完畢作以下宣告大學法第35條條文相關修正草案已全部審查完畢並按擬據審查報告提起院會公決本案須交由政黨協商院會討論時由羅昭吉委員庭委補充說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
24050.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
24066.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
另外我要補充說補充宣告我要補充宣告剛才高級中等教育法委員羅廷偉第58條也有提出修正動議一併列入紀錄謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
24070.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
24092.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
現在繼續進行專科學校法第40條條文修正逐條審查第40條條文修正由委員柯志恩等16人等16個提案以及委員陳秀寶等人委員吳思瑤等人還有委員羅廷惟等人所提的修正動議那現在是不是請大家發表意見 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
24096.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
24120.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
委員 伍麗華委員也有提出這個修正動議這個我一併念出來那再來我們先翻到這個第44條 謝謝好好 我們看到大家的版本 請大家舉手 謝謝吳思耀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
24121.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
24144.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
其實專科學校法跟剛剛大學法35條是完全一致的狀況因為大學法跟專科學校一樣在高教的部分所以條件上如果說主席都覺得說這沒有共識但我覺得我也習字如今了啦否則講了一堆主席之後也沒有尊重我們的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
24145.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
24168.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
那這樣 既然都一樣的東西剛剛大學法保留了那專科學校法就一併保留吧應該也不太可能有什麼突破了不會啦 不會說不聽你們的建制我真的不認同就同意保留嘛因為相同的狀況因為也不好意思說大學的保留這個沒保留也很奇怪啦好 那我們就保留送院會協商謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
24170.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
24197.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
保留歸保留不好意思我還是提醒一下因為保留歸保留但是因為我的文字可能有一個部分很重要就是涉及原住民部分這很重要由教育部會統中央原住民組機關定制就是不要拉掉這一段不要拉掉原住民這很重要對不起不好意思剛剛沒看到你舉手那就保留送院會協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
24203.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
24224.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
保留送院會協商委員吳士耀等人所提的附帶決議一併保留處理審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響條文文藝前提下文字條次及標點符號為統一體力授權議事人員整理列入紀錄本案主條已經均已處理完畢作以下宣告專科學校法 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
24225.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
24244.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
第44條條文修正相關的修正草案已全部審查完畢並按理據審查報告提請院會公決本案須交由政黨協商院會表決時由羅昭吉委員聽委補充說明以上 謝謝好 我們另外進入到下一個環節 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
24247.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
24273.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
據審查學校營養學校午餐及飲食教育條例相關的草案本案前經114年11月27日召開第四會期教育文化委員會第八次全體委員會決議審查結果法案名稱照委員柯智恩等21人委員陳培宇等26人提案通過各章章名均不予採納第一條暫時保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
24276.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
24301.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
第二條修正通過現在進行逐條審查我們先翻開這個各個委員的版本喔 謝謝那剛剛有宣告說第二條修正通過啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
24303.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
24330.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
那現在我們就看第三條吧主席還要再把暫保留的再處理一次主席我可以程序先發言一下嗎可以等我一下我先釐清一下程序發言優先好嗎OK好請說我想提議在場的委員大家商量一下學校營養午餐及飲食教育條例現在在手上有39案 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
24333.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
24354.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
39個案那要修的條文大概有20幾條那如果以上一個會期上一個會期我記得雖然那個時候我不在教文化委員會但是大家在審查官條文名稱第一條跟第二條好像就 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
24356.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
24382.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
搞了一整個會議兩次會議那因為我是又剛剛修這個學代三法條文是四個條文但是看到這個討論起來的狀況我們努力的在共識上去達成共識但都沒有辦法共識那四個條文的法都這樣那這個有二十幾個條文三十九案 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
24384.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
24409.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
的營養午餐條例我是建議教育部要多花一點時間跟委員們再溝通否則我們現在就逐條下去不光一個條文可能就講三個小時然後結論主席的才是還是一樣沒有共識那我覺得這樣子委員會的討論似乎就沒有太大的意義啦所以我是個人覺得就如同我們在場委員我們都很希望時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
24411.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
24436.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
在沒有共識的議案還有其他奇異過大的議案大家都現在省點力氣省點時間我們把時間應當用在我們很急的預算案上趕快來審預算所以說我們提議說我們現在要審查的學校公參法草案等等相關的修正草案呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
24437.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
24460.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
因為有鑒於地方制度法第18條第19條的規定當中很重要的我想這個修法有一個很重要的核心就在中央跟地方對營養午餐費的分擔上其實連中央跟地方都沒有共識所以今天立委在這邊討論討論完我們都會問行政部門一件事你們跟地方政府溝通了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
24461.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
24478.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
所以這個法不是只有營養午餐法本身還跟地方制度法相關的規定裡頭營養午餐為地方自治的事項而且現在22個縣市他們運作的機制不一啦我會希望教育部中央政府跟地方政府持續的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
24479.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
24506.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
再来进行我们营养午餐的讨论否则每一条卡住每一条花时间没有共识因为争议真的很大所以我是具体的提案我们刚刚也完成学代三法了我们希望未来的时间是保留给审查预算预算优先拖了286天所以我正是我们武力华委员陈秀宝委员郭玉琴委员跟吴思耀委员我们提议今天的会议到此为止 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
24507.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
24513.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
好,相關的法案審查我們另定期來審議那我們具體提出這個議案請主席來公決 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
24515.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
24544.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
好 是不是處理這個動議是優先但是還是讓我先回應一下啦那我還是要再次強調剛剛有一些法案呢並沒有說差距很大就是因為看到差距已經快要完成可以進入到入法所以很多的委員就希望說應該要以學生權益最大化然後把它給入法所以剛剛也有參酌其他的委員意見所以我們修會嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
24544.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
24564.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
那休會的時候 我們休息去做討論那其實委員還說還是要尊重很多委員的意見那所以我希望說 吳世耀委員很關切啦齁那這真的不是召委能夠單一獨斷來決定的齁我們還是有尊重其他委員的意見那再來第二個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
24567.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
24592.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
很可惜啦因為營養午餐要進入主條討論然後就被強制的休息我覺得這個部分我覺得很可惜因為有一些委員他的焦點沒有錯只是焦點不一樣你的焦點可能是中央地方如何分錢可是今天我記得羅志強委員我們都有在提到食農教育飲食文化禮儀 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
24597.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
24620.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
這個部分我相信是比較有共識的我們應該來試著討論看看很可惜就有人提出動議要強制我們就要休息那對於營養午餐的部分我認為沒有討論就要求要散會這個部分很可惜啦我只能說在處理動議之前我們還是有可以發言的權利啦吳佩儀委員先發言 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
24631.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
24645.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
好 這個我要附議吳斯亞委員的提議因為剛剛前面的幾個法如同昭偉剛剛所說的其實大家共識的程度滿高的但是經過討論之後最後仍然是保留就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
24646.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
24663.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
在委員會沒有結論沒有辦法達成共識的狀況那現在營養五傳法因為我自己其實有提案特別針對剛剛召委所講到的這個飲食教育這個也是我非常重視的因為我們現在手邊的這個提案有39個版本那上個會期我們也在教委會嘛這討論的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
24666.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
24684.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
連到這個文字的細節其實大家的意見很多都不相同那其中我也最關切的是我們真的是希望這個營養午餐法大家等待很久了立下去之後是實務上要可以推動的所以我們也要拜託教育部是要真的要跟地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
24685.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
24703.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
而且就我所知光台北新北就不同縣市的狀況真的都不大一樣就是趕快來跟地方政府討論除了補助補助是其中一項而已像我們剛剛講的飲食教育要去推動落實到地方政府的時候要請他們希望法律下去就要有執行有效果有成效可以趕快來規劃所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
24705.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
24712.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
我也是希望說讓教育部先去跟地方政府溝通休息不是說躺平不是說教育部也不能說 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
24737.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
24737.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
好 羅志祥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
24743.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
24769.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
當然還是尊重我們委員提出的散會動議但是既然都覺得營養午餐法大家在審查過程當中可能要花蠻多的溝通跟審查的時間也這麼難得大家已經到這個地方來那是不是我覺得今天還是可以考慮就是我們今天用一個下午時間法案能夠往前推進到什麼程度就往前推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
24770.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
24792.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
那如果說真的推進到多走個兩步那最後還有很多溝通要做那其實也不妨礙說今天這個我覺得執政黨委員所提的一個想法當然我還是要講啦尊重啦因為這個是本來提出程序上的一個動議就是立委的權利啦所以這一點是尊重以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
24796.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
24800.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
但是我從那個順序啦就是那個 劉淑冰委員先好 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
24809.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
24832.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
營養午餐法應該是在上個會期就已經有到逐條討論了那包括他的法案名稱其實也確定了那在一月份的委員會會議當中呢已經我記得是彭署長已經在已經就說了不好意思名稱到底有沒有通過了沒有沒有沒有不好意思怎麼次長說沒有啊主秘說有有有有已經名稱已經確定來我們以 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
24837.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
24858.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
我們以教文委員會對不起讓你論述前我們先確認一下第三會期第三次全體會議議事錄可是這裡不是有寫陳培鈺委員的提案通過嗎對啊對啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
24861.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
24889.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
我們這裡的第一頁給我的版本就是法案名稱照委員柯智恩等21人及委員陳培宇等26人提案通過所以是有進度的喔是的所以它叫做學校公參法嗎不是 高級中等學校以上不好意思 我唸一個全名我們調出柯智恩 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
24890.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
24916.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
显然大家对于名称是怎么通过的没有公示有一段时间帮大家回忆一下没关系你看陈培宇吗学校午餐及饮食教育条例草案这是名称当时通过的所以也跟次长报告因为次长有对我知道但次长您刚刚有提到可能名称这个部分都还没有定案 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
24920.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
24946.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
蘇冰委員不好意思第二條也有修正通過第二條也有啦只有第一條保留來來來我跟大家因為時間真的很久了這件事情也拖很久了我再一次我重複我還是會處理動議啦我一定尊重委員但是讓大家充分表達論述法案名稱趙委員柯智恩還有陳培宇委員等26人 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
24947.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
24974.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
提案通過確定喔來各張張明均不予採納然後第一條暫時保留第二條修正通過來我們請那個第二條來哪一個教育部的體會訪問對不起對不起第二條喔那可能要醫事人員念一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
24976.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
24993.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
我們是請議事人員唸一下第二條我們唸完就那個 劉書斌委員繼續發言第二條本條例所稱主管機關在中央在中央為交易部在此瑕疵為指瑕疵政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
24994.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
25014.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
在縣市為縣市政府以下解稱我們文字看一下地方主管機關主管機關掌理學校午餐與飲食教育之規劃推動及監督等事項本條例所定事項涉及中央各目的事業主管機關執掌者由中央各目的事業主管機關辦理其權責劃分如下一衛生福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
25015.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
25029.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
主管機關學校午餐營養與均衡飲食廚房與校園飲食衛生安全之規劃推動及監督事項二農業主管機關學校午餐食材是源頭源頭端抽檢驗監督及輔導供應國產農產品推動事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
25035.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
25053.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
3.環境主管機關預防具食品安全風險疑慮之毒性以關注化學物質流入學校午餐食品鏈及處於再利用之推動事項4.其他學校午餐及飲食教育相關事項由各相關中央目的事業主管機關依職權辦理以上宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
25059.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
25075.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
好 那其實教育部也有建議版本所以有些有先通過了那謝謝我們前召委 劉召委那請劉書斌委員繼續好 謝謝主席因為在上個會期有經過至少大概兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
25075.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
25091.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
的一個逐條討論那我們在過程當中經歷了非常大的一個變化因為至少在一月中旬在省裡的時候當初是有十幾十九個縣市政府他們是說變成都變成營養午餐是免費的 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
25093.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
25101.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
當初還有三個可是到現在為止大概前一個月都已經知道是包括新北 嘉義通通都已經有變成就是22縣市通通都已經是變成縣市來去營養午餐免費 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
25111.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
25128.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
從1月份到現在已經將近到5個月的時間我記得是彭署長 國教署這邊呢就一直在 當初就有說就是要跟地方政府要做的是協商那在協商的過程 我想時間應該有些進度可以請彭署長來做一下報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
25128.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
25154.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
那第二個部分呢就是說現在竟然已經是第三方政府通通都有變成是一樣午餐免費可是在有些部分的時候呢會涉及到的是它的費用這邊我覺得就是說它變成有些全國一致性的部分除了費用之外那其實費用裡面最重要的是一個食材那食材部分呢可能像現在的這個版本包括教育部現在有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
25156.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
25170.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
草擬的版本當中也是由各縣市來去收費就是各家長等等收費可是另外還有很重要的費用是在設備還有人力部分我想這部分可能看看交易部或是目前的委員到底說這部分是不是也應該有一些統一的標準是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
25176.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
25194.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
那第二個部分我剛涉及到這個人力部分就是包括了是午餐秘書營養師還有廚工他其實都應該有一個相關的設置就是說各縣市也許他們有財力上面的差距但是在於對於說應該在什麼樣的規範當中他就是應該有相關的人力配置還包括設備的配置當中其實這邊可能就會因為他的財力的差異性 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
25202.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
25225.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
要由教育部來做統一規範因為每一個學生在各縣市的所應該得到的一個營養跟他的健康的品質的保障是一致的是至少不要差異太大所以這部分我建議是教育部應該就這個部分能夠提出來一個全國適用性的標準或是說一個指引等等的那但是因為透過我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
25225.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
25245.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
要訂定的是一個營養午餐整個專法所以這部分我想是教育部責無旁貸的工作要去進行那我又提供這樣的一個方向尤其是彭署長您已經在日本有去做考察了那特別的事情就是說日本在1968年就有這樣子的一個營養午餐專法是不是也可以就您的這個意見當中去提到說以日本的這樣的經驗來看他說他們對於全國一致性尤其是 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
25255.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
25270.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
本來日本呢 它本來在1968年的部分呢 也是也是有各別的收費 但是現在已經變成東京都來港華市全部的都變成午餐 都已經免費了我想這樣一個經驗也可以給台灣做一個很重要的一個參考指教謝謝蘇冰委員 我想你也有去了解日本的狀況啦所以你也知道 謝謝那我們下一位 剛剛吳世耀委員有舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
25292.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
25309.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
因為我們那個條文很多啦但是上一次開會的時候其實也有往前推進啦尤其是像我們現在是要討論到第三條以我的條文就是說希望各級主管機關跟學校可以訂定計畫那為什麼要訂定計畫就是希望能夠在營養午餐這個可以更 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
25310.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
25323.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
做得更好嘛那大家都是為了這個營養午餐學生好啦吃得健康吃得營養啦然後甚至於食農教育所以其實如果繼續討論的話還是可以往前推進那當然我們也尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
25324.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
25341.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
那個吳小委員他的動議啦那這個也是他的權利只是說可以請吳小委再想一下然後第二個剛剛吳佩儀委員講說是建議行政機關跟地方政府討論完之後再來討論但我覺得如果是這樣的話也要請行政機關押一個日期啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
25342.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
25371.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
不然的話每一次都用這個理由然後不開會不討論那一下時間就過了所以等一下也可不可以請行政機關說明一下假設等一下要散會今天已經有委員提散會動議了假設要散會的話那行政機關什麼時候可以跟各縣市政府討論好討論好一個比較明確的共識再來討論我覺得把這個講清楚大家比較好做決定謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
25374.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
25382.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
我們下一位那個好 劉淑冰委員請等一下吳承佩玉委員承佩玉委員 對不起謝謝主席確實我們剛剛回憶到上一次討論是11月那剛剛劉淑冰委員有講了一個時間點我覺得那個時間點現在看起來我覺得很重要就是從1月份開始由某一個縣市開始宣布營養午餐免費之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
25400.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
25422.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
我認為到目前為止其實國教署也好或是地方政府也好各自要面對的其實不是只有食材健不健康營不營養也不是只有食農教育營養教育要不要做因為這個試射的成本很少成本大部分來自哪裡來自於所有的營養午餐食材還有所有的人力那目前為止據我所知就我們辦公室一直在跟相關的老師們家長團體們討論其實最大的困境是 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
25426.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
25443.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
以台北市我的孩子所在台北市為例現在如果台北市綁定的是75塊或是73塊90塊都好但是如果個別的學校家長會對於這個費用或是對於相關做法是有疑義的過去在個別學校招標各自學校可以決定的情況下其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
25444.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
25464.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
家長會還有學生的權利跟聲音是很清晰的但是現在一旦變成所有的地方縣市政府都是所謂大甲方的時候其實我認為很多的問題根本都還沒有討論清楚包含我剛說那個費用的裁分那那個費用光是國產食材三張EQ這件事情我相信都還有很多事情要討論甚至之前我們還有發現有的縣市的食材登錄平台是不是也沒有要再用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
25468.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
25487.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
甚至有些縣市開始把某一些食材給拿掉了國產食材拿掉其實這都是所有今天在場會參與營養午餐的委員所擔心的所以我認為如同剛剛有委員建議的是不是讓國教署這邊先花一些時間說明從各縣市宣布免費營養午餐到目前為止這四五個月期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
25488.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
25516.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
各個縣市政府現在到底收集回來的狀況有哪些那還需要地方政府跟中央政府討論的爭議還有哪些還有我們剛剛說的不論是食材登錄平台或是三張EQ或是廚工的人力營養師的人力或是食農教育後續的分工因為我要請大家注意當時在喊營養午餐修法的時候其實沒有那麼多縣市是用所謂免費的方法所以每一個家長所繳的錢在學校來說它叫做代辦費 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
25517.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
25540.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
但是未來代辦費這三個字不可能再出現囉因為所有大的甲方就叫做各縣市政府所以如果我們現在沒有搞清楚各縣市政府跟中央教育部這邊合作的狀況或是還有歧異的狀況還有分歧的狀況我覺得我們一條一條審下去會非常的荒謬可笑因為所有地方政府他們今天不可能有時間第一時間在線上聽直播 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
25541.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
25564.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
但是如果我們立法院硬要通過的東西到後來是各地方縣市政府沒有辦法承擔沒有辦法負荷的可能是人力可能是資源可能是財力那該怎麼辦而且不要忘記了當各個縣市都是用免費的方法在照顧孩子們的營養午餐的時候還有地區的差異偏鄉的差異而這些該怎麼辦前一輪在蘇院長的時代好不容易用各個 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
25564.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
25586.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
地方的營養午餐的廚房解決了偏鄉的孩子好像吃得比較不好的狀況好不容易我們的國產食材也都99%進入孩子們的營養午餐而那個時候的狀況跟現在起來的不同所以我想在進行主條之前還是要拜託主席是不是就給教育部國教署多一些時間來說明現在所收集到的一些狀況好 以上 謝謝好不好意思 他剛剛有先舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
25595.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
25615.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
我相信大家都非常重視學校營養午餐的問題我們當然也希望能夠建立全國一致的公餐體系來保障孩子們在學校營養午餐攝取的時候的健康和安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
25615.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
25641.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
不過大家都知道這個從台北市宣布的營養午餐免費之後那麼各個縣市的福利競賽就展開了那包含了現在其實總共又有12個這個縣市企業陸陸續續他們也就是推動這個免費的營養午餐的這樣子的一個政策可是我想這個當然是一個美意然後減輕這個家長們的一個負擔不過中央跟地方之間的一個溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
25642.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
25658.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
到底到什么样的一个程度那大家都会说这个免费的最贵那我们当然也担心这个免费的午餐可能衍生之后的一些问题像近期大家都知道像台中就发生了30个学生要平均分9颗共玩 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
25659.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
25671.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
那還要抽籤才能決定誰能吃那這個公平性的一個問題那台北市的國中他們可能一餐是75塊錢那其他的縣市也許是50等等這個不一樣的一個標準那會不會有公平性的問題還有所謂的這個聖史的一個黑洞還有人力分配的一個失衡的一個狀況我想這個中央有沒有來做跟地方上的一個盤點跟追蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
25685.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
25711.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
那到目前為止其實我們可能還是需要再跟更多的這個地方來做溝通那財化法之前跟財化法之後其實像這樣子的一個問題地方的這個市權到底分配的部分就是錢拿走了但是問題是他們的這個市權的部分有沒有一起來分擔那我想這個部分其實也是我們會有一些考量那如果在這些問題都還沒有特別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
25712.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
25731.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
一些最新的一個最終的一個狀況如果今天要進入這樣的一個主條我相信應該又會像剛剛其實我們那個學貸三法一樣即使大家的方向一致但最後還是又是保留那我覺得這個時間上的一個意義可能真的就比較比較沒有這樣子的一個共識以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
25742.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
25762.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
我想我們這個程序的動力也是要優先處理啦但我們還是要說明清楚也比較不好意思因為我在場可能是比較資深一點點就是因為屆次比較多其實我是立法院第一個提營養午餐專法的立委但是這兩屆以來有很多新生的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
25764.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
25779.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
第一個就是財化法的修正中央跟地方的財源有一個翻天覆地的改變所以中央原本來補助地方不管三張EQ不管是偏鄉不管是弱勢孩童每年撥補的74億現在的狀況因為財化法就改變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
25783.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
25803.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
那移給地方之後現在22個縣市從財化法前後修財化法前有10個縣市自行地方買單全額地方補貼到修財化法後又有12個縣市加入所以整個財政的狀況跟現在學校營養午餐現場的執行狀況也不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
25804.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
25823.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
然後另外還有一件事情當然也是營養午餐大家我們不斷的跟地方在地的團體溝通對話之後大家有一些新生的事項認為還需要再精進跟研議那教育部原本我們都期待教育部要有佈板 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
25824.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
25850.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
這是重要的一個法案朝野都很重視那我所知道教育部的布版也修了六次七次只是真的因為才化法上路之後而又stop了所以這件事情需要中央跟地方好好再溝通好所以我們立法委員我們修法不能夠自外於中央的財政跟地方的執行現場的狀況我們不能無視啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
25852.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
25880.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
所以說為了法案好討論也要有品質討論也希望能夠聚焦那顯然就前面的會期討論光名稱光通過的第二條條文也是花了非常長的時間更何況第一個條文就已經被保留所以我們希望如果委員會有時間現在應當來審預算才對如果沒有國家的預算我們怎麼有支應地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
25882.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
25903.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
營養午餐的費用呢所以還是我們的修正動議是真的也覺得我們程序上的動議請主席能夠來處理我們都希望讓法案有品質的討論然後省預算還是我們眼前最重要的事這是上會期就要交的作業我們這會期要趕快來趕進度我想大家都有共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
25905.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
25923.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
好補充報告一下還是跟委員說明我們下個禮拜就要省預算所以現階段已經在排的議程我希望大家就尊重我尊重你說要省預算我下禮拜就會排可是我現階段不讓我討論說要省預算那我們現在是不是待會再提一個臨時動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
25926.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
25941.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
我們這個休息我們現在馬上省預算也做不出來啊也做不出來醫事人員就是等下個禮拜嘛所以我要拜託大家現在是排營養午餐就聚焦在營養午餐好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
25944.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
25960.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
我有我的牌法嘛所以你們又要再講那我又要提到武力華委員你有沒有好奇這三週都是我來當召委為什麼因為講好換好時間嘛那你們換了你們先審然後我換到後面我再來審結果講好了然後結果我排到後面突然又說啊你不審預算我跟你換時間耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
25964.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
25987.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
這一週排有一些他們說要應一絲路叫我等一下不要這樣子啦就真的有要排嘛我就覺得說我連跟你換個時間結果你後面都要搞我說哎呀你都不排預算結果我前三週讓你當召委後三週我當召委我後三週再處理嘛拜託啦齁那個陳秀寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
25994.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
26011.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
謝謝主席其實我原本都非常的關心我們的孩子在學校營養午餐的問題我自己本身也有提我的版本但是剛才有委員在問教育部說好啊 那你跟地方溝通你什麼時候可以溝通好其實跟地方溝通不管是經費還是事權這個分攤不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
26013.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
26023.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
教育部很認真去溝通地方就一定給結論一定給回應今天他去跟縣市政府的教育處教育局說那教育處教育局還是興奮兩手一談說我可能沒辦法那就停頓了你必須再找時間再去講一次這不是教育部覺得說我今天來跟你談就一定有結果可以帶回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
26034.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
26051.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
所以你要教育部講出來說你什麼時候可以溝通完成你什麼時候可以跟各縣市政府的教育處教育局講好這個不是教育部有辦法去掌握到這個進度所以他們很努力的在做這個部分的協商很努力的在做這個討論但是只要縣市政府他們沒有給出他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
26052.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
26081.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
要做的整個章程沒有給出他們要做的整個分攤的承諾的話那其實教育部是沒有辦法得到這樣的結論的所以其實雖然我們在這個才化法之前已經有十個縣市包括我自己的彰化縣就是已經免費的提供營養午餐了那在才化法之後呢很多縣市也覺得說他們是有把握就是可以來這樣子處理之後他們也都陸續的宣布說他們營養午餐的政策就是可以免費提供給孩童 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
26081.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
26091.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
那這樣子的情況之下到底這相關的事權到底相關的這個怎麼處理怎麼大家去分攤比例其實政府我想還沒有很 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
26092.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
26102.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
正確的很明確的給出他們教育部這邊可以覺得說是很有把握的這樣子的回應的時候那其實我們在這個時候來審我們來去討論說我們在法規裡面法條裡面所規範的每一個部分其實也很難有一個很正確的一個這個定論那尤其剛才我們在審我們學帶的這個部分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
26119.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
26144.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
其實這麼有共識的情況之下還是要送保留我想我們今天針對我們的營養午餐我們的學校午餐在討論的過程裡面是不是也可能就是即便是非常的相近已經大家覺得說是同樣的方向了但是也可能因為是文字上還是大家的想法上有一點出入然後又把它送保留就這樣子的效率我覺得也不是很在 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
26145.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
26167.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
這個整個法條的討論上是有進度可言啦所以這邊我也呼應我們市要委員提的這個散會動議如果是大家沒有哲其在審因為如果說沒有在這個方面很明確共識我們可能就是像剛剛一樣雖然大家的方向很接近了大家的意思已經很接近了但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
26169.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
26183.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
但是還是保留那既然一直要送保留每一條都保留永遠都在原地其實也會有進展的謝謝好 謝謝委員委員都還沒有討論你就說一定會保留也試試看嘛好 我們最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
26185.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
26203.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
法不一樣嘛大家討論看看嘛今天我連一條都還沒進去討論的時候你馬上就說一定會保留那這個我覺得太強人所難那最後我來宣告啦劉淑冰委員 羅志強委員羅廷維委員發言完畢以後我們就處理動議以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
26205.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
26228.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
好 謝謝主席我剛才在第一回合發言的時候已經有提到現在22個縣市都已經說營養午餐要免費了那但是對於有一個非常大的或兩個重要的一個時間壓力是在於下一個學年度真的開學在9月可是真的學年度開始是從8月1號開始8個月要開始到距離現在就是不到兩個月時間那兩個月時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
26231.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
26236.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
如果就有那個必要性在要趕快就新的學年度開始的時候應該就 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].start |
26238.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].end |
26261.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].text |
有一些全國一致性的內容包括的是 飲食教育要怎麼樣進行還包括的是 對人力的部分廚工 營養師 武祕怎麼樣的去有一定的架構 怎麼樣的規範這也是要去進行那第二個部分 有個時間的壓力在於說現在已經進到六月了 我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].start |
26263.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].end |
26281.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].text |
再過不久就要編定116年度的中央政府總預算了所以這一部分也是因為財化法已經確定了的確地方的政府他的財源是多了但是在於有些部分在於偏鄉的低收入戶的 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].start |
26282.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].end |
26298.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].text |
這些需要過去再由中央再補助的可是這些部分是不是因為地方政府的財運振動它是有沒有cover到這些部分並沒有做相關的規定所以這邊我還是覺得等一下如果有什麼樣的一個散會動議之前可能還是要請 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].start |
26300.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].end |
26319.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].text |
國教署 國遣署這邊應該針對從去年年底或是從今年年初到現在四五個月以來的對跟地方政府他們的協商的過程絕對沒有可能是透明的動靜啦就是就他們現在已經了解到已經溝通的部分要做一個先做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].start |
26319.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].end |
26344.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].text |
事實上面的一個了解之後我們才知道下一步甚至今天如果做一些什麼散會動議或什麼之類的都要講說那下一步要開會之前我剛剛已經提出來了兩個時間性就是要編下年度總預算第二部分是新的學年度就要開始這兩個時間壓力是非常大的就應該要對說到下一次開會之前所以事實上我們在七月底之前應該有對有一些想法做法出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].start |
26345.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].end |
26359.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].text |
那在這種情況下是不是要請國賢署這邊要針對說下一次的有些方向的時候是不是能夠在這次會議當中有一些指引讓他們方向讓委員會要做審議的時候有更明確的進度好 謝謝羅志祥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].start |
26374.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].end |
26395.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].text |
不積愧步無以至千里啦那當然每個法案的討論都有它的溝通的困難性但法案的溝通跟審查不就是一步一步的慢慢的累積然後最後達成目標嗎就像今天我們的營養午餐的專法事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].start |
26396.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].end |
26417.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].text |
上個會期就已經有一些進展了那這個進展就是一個好的開端那今天我們就繼續讓它有進展那慢慢的就會把它完成那所以今天既然我們的本來的這個會議結束時間是5點半你居然多討論一條兩條都是往前走一步兩步啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].start |
26418.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].end |
26439.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].text |
可是當然還是我要強調啦我當然是希望說能不能這個散會動議可以先收回去讓我們能夠討論到5點半那你們就是其實不管是你再折起就是散會在動議上就是散會啦那理由是一回事啦一樣尊重還是先講尊重可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].start |
26440.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].end |
26452.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].text |
當然就很可惜啊我個人就是表達遺憾啦營養午餐專法今天我們可以往前再往前多走兩步大家想想看之前會期也就是討論兩條那也是進展兩條嘛可見當然有困難嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].start |
26455.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].end |
26480.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].text |
可是如果說因為困難今天就算了我們折旗再來那折旗也是折旗的開始的新的困難那為什麼不今天我們就先把困難的先往前多走兩步呢所以真的還是在呼籲啦能不能再考慮一下那當然如果真的要處理這個折旗今天散會折旗在討論的動議那我們也只能尊重五招尾報還是因為我剛剛有宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].start |
26484.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].end |
26511.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].text |
有宣告了就是我講完就要處理動議了好嗎阿闆您剪短好不好不用剪短沒關係就尊重好那不好意思我站著啦做比較久還是希望啦懇請我們執政黨委員能夠收回我們的這個動議啦我們還是希望能夠可以給我一點理由嗎沒有列入公報沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].start |
26513.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].end |
26527.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].text |
可是我現在在發言因為我有點不好意思啦我其實早上的質詢我有準備這個營養午餐的內容但是我刻意不講我只講學戴三法我就是想說下午來討論對我是真的很想討論我自己也蠻遺憾但是真的時間因為已經四點了我很想參與可是因為我自己也有來自花蓮秀林鄉的鄉親他們在紅樓201等我開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].start |
26543.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].end |
26558.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].text |
所以我是希望說能不能夠擇旗 擇旗其實因為我當昭偉啦 吳昭偉跟我其實我們有一些默契我剛剛就講說 其實你交代我 我也都盡力達到嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].start |
26560.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].end |
26576.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].text |
那我也是拜託委員啦我是希望能夠繼續討論但是我也願意為了你休息半個小時你先去處理2011的事情因為2011鄉親我知道他們有一些需求啦齁我們等你但是營養午餐真的很重要今天休到12點我都願意陪大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].start |
26578.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].end |
26594.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].text |
我馬上處理動議你就可以走了但我真的是拜託說執政黨的委員是不是抽回動議讓我講完話我們就要處理但真的拜託一定要現階段討論一條是一條如果你跟我講說要再繼續討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].start |
26595.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].end |
26610.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].text |
中央跟地方討論多少次了從114年到現在又拖了多久了則其就是讓他進入到這樣子的死循環日本的營養午餐法已經這麼多年台灣還不跟進 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].start |
26612.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].end |
26637.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].text |
那現在有委員提到這個台中的狀況OK沒關係一個貢丸湯九個貢丸三十幾個人分OK沒關係有這樣的事情我們就是要處理嘛所以要有討論嘛有討論才有辦法處理那再來就說到財化法又說到地方跟中央的一個部分我呼籲我呼籲執政黨委員你抽回嗎那現在只要討論到錢的部分我們保留在委員會內 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].start |
26639.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].end |
26665.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].text |
我們繼續討論到現在後面比如說除工的部分比如說我們營養師的權益的部分比如說我們食農教育的部分把沒有爭議的部分先處理可是這個時候把它全部都不要討論那我覺得這是非常讓我覺得很遺憾真的是遺憾我等這一刻等這麼久換我當召委我要來做這件事的時候還是不讓我討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].start |
26666.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].end |
26687.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].text |
所以我覺得這樣子我沒辦法接受那如果你要說才化法的部分的話那我要講是說才化法也有苛扣一般性補助款讓地方政府沒有辦法得到原本的一些權益呀那一來一回中央其實在整體的總預算還是有餘裕的那你要跟我講中央沒有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].start |
26688.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].end |
26703.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[868].text |
那怎麼突然又可以0到18歲每個月5000啊你跟我講說中央沒有錢然後他又願意提出一堆特別條例但是這個特別條例怎麼沒有營養午餐特別條例就是有沒有心要處理小朋友的營養午餐的問題嘛所以我真的是拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].start |
26705.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].end |
26721.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[869].text |
我們委員是不是這個動議不要去處理是不是抽回那最後決定權還是保留在我們提動議的委員以上主席我們以剛剛學代三法都有共識的事情你不讓他往前推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].start |
26723.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].end |
26744.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[870].text |
那您刚刚是不是收回我们在学代在大学法第35条的时候大家都相对有明确的共识的时候你个人觉得还要该跟其他委员讨论所以我们会对于您的主持风格没有把握耶谢谢真的是这样子啊那更何况阴阳五三法我们讲了39案二十几个条文二十几个条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].start |
26752.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].end |
26780.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[871].text |
然後討論要有品質要有效率才化法確實是一個新生的事物讓整個原本大家對於營養午餐的一個好的政策的破壞都受到了一個很大的影響而這個影響不是中央政府願意面對到這種受到的衝擊教育部也是受害者教育部這一年部本部的預算少了八九百億 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].start |
26782.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].end |
26798.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[872].text |
他們是受害者但是我們努力的想方設法讓孩子的營養午餐吃的好吃的健康吃的有文化吃的有在地特色那需要很多要跟地方政府來好好討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].start |
26801.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].end |
26827.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[873].text |
那為了討論然後每一條都保留那種討論就是過水那種討論就是沒有實質沒有回到那個hard core我們剛剛在大學法在專科學校法在高級中等學校教育法裡面已經看到了只是覺得大家時間都很寶貴我們執政黨的委員六位都坐在這裡我們認真看待審查的每一個法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].start |
26829.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].end |
26858.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[874].text |
但我們更希望人民等了半年多287天的預算能夠趕快被審議這還是我們眼前教育文化委員會應當承擔的責任所以是不是就處理我們的動議我們是具體希望為了後續針對營養午餐專法行政部門來跟立法部門交換意見的時候能夠更對焦而且他們對焦的內容是已經跟地方政府取得共識這樣的法律才能推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].start |
26859.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].end |
26879.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[875].text |
否則我們委員自己蒙著眼睛不跟地方政府對話我們無視於社會的現況我們無視於教育現場的需求為修而修為快而快我認為那樣才是不負責任所以我們的動議其實這種程序上的動議應當是即刻處理的我們也很有耐心坐在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].start |
26881.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].end |
26899.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[876].text |
來交換大家的意見那是不是請主席您剛剛也說了那動議要處理我們的要求是請行政部門再跟地方政府先行溝通再把版本能夠匯聚共識然後我們則其再來審議營養午餐專法我想這樣會更有效能更有品質也更負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].start |
26900.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].end |
26920.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[877].text |
好那因為剛剛有宣告了就是我講完話以後要處理那因為吳立華委員剛剛有說希望能夠表達一些建議我也有讓你發言那吳斯亞委員也有再補充發言所以現在葛如君委員說不公平他也要發言那不好意思葛如君委員謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].start |
26924.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].end |
26948.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[878].text |
我想這個有能力的人找方法沒有能力的人找藉口這個有意願的人找方法沒有意願的人找藉口滿地都是藉口啦今天我想真的不要審千百個理由可以不要審啦但是我們真的可以不要審嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].start |
26951.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].end |
26979.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[879].text |
我們覺得剛剛都已經聽過很多例子了我想我不用再複述那我覺得幾個點就是說第一個方才柳樹斌委員也提到了吳思耀委員也提到了就是說這個地方的溝通那我覺得還是是不是請主席說不定如果待會還是看主席我覺得您的風格很棒就是勇於認識的風格那看有沒有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].start |
26981.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].end |
26997.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[880].text |
要不要請這個教育部官員也說明一下不然因為我們營養午餐法已經省那麼長時間了怎麼每一次怎麼好像跟昨天前天上個月上上個月怎麼一樣啊怎麼每次的旅遊都是這個什麼跟地方的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].start |
26998.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].end |
27024.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[881].text |
那溝通的情況到底開了幾次會找了誰那誰的意見是什麼如果有我們這個不同黨派的縣市我們大家也都努力回去溝通啊我們也來一起加入溝通啊那可不可以待會要不要有機會我想這個應該是跨黨派共識吧那我想是不是如果主席願意可以讓官員回應一下開了幾次會找了幾個縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].start |
27027.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].end |
27045.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[882].text |
這個溝通的情況如何是可以講那另外呢我也稍微表達一下我也稍微表達一下就是說這個要等說要等誰等發生什麼事才來全民也在等很多事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].start |
27046.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].end |
27067.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[883].text |
全民也在等不附屬什麼時候要附屬啊全民也在等該通過的法律案什麼時候要通過啊全民也在等這個什麼時候該編的預算怎麼沒有編啊我覺得營養午餐就是營養午餐學生的權益就是學生的權益大家如果真的要來扯這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].start |
27068.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].end |
27095.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[884].text |
我想真的不是全民之福啦所以我想除了剛剛跟主席表達建議啦就是說看主席有沒有想法那處理動議之前因為動議他們是說擇其在意嘛其中一個理由是說剛剛吳思耀委員也表達劉書斌委員也表達我也表達三黨都表達都認同啊要地方溝通那但是這個是不是教育部官員有沒有要說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].start |
27096.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].end |
27110.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[885].text |
既然大家關心這個議題我覺得今天我們能夠有一些更多的資訊跟結果被記錄下來這個也才真正有利於後續的審查進度不然的話好像有一個理由然後說擇期再審我覺得這會讓民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].start |
27112.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].end |
27130.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[886].text |
覺得很奇怪就說大家都記得啊無私藥委員是很資深啊雖然看不出來因為保養得很好這個很資深啊可是最早提出營養午餐法為什麼現在要來擇其在意大家也會搞不清楚好不好所以這個我也稍微提議一下謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].start |
27133.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].end |
27143.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[887].text |
我還是要再 因為剛剛有點我名喔 還是要回應一下我們下禮拜就會省預算 已經排了那有人說 你為什麼不上禮拜我跟大家報告 我光下禮拜要排預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].start |
27145.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].end |
27172.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[888].text |
都有公務人員跟我講義事錄還沒有印好給他們一點時間而且我們收案截止日還要有跟委員溝通的時間有的要改組決議所以才讓你們有更充分的溝通下禮拜才處理不會不排請執政委員安心放心我們會處理我還是再次強調你們難道都不會好奇怎麼會羅廷偉當了三個禮拜的召委你如果都覺得我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].start |
27173.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].end |
27194.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[889].text |
主持風格不喜歡那你也會想一下怎麼三個禮拜都看到羅廷偉啊就是因為你們跟我換時間嘛換了時間就尊重嘛你們換了時間你們先完成了結果笑說被換時間的人哈哈你都沒有你都沒做你不努力那我也覺得很納悶奇怪我願意配合換時間啊結果你換了我時間以後突然就落井下石大家有換時間的默契所以換了時間默契以後我再來排時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].start |
27203.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].end |
27227.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[890].text |
那如果你真的要這樣子我們是不是還有一個默契禮拜一都是考察現在都在講說召委排考察以後禮拜一都不要考察沒關係啊委員們也一直拜託排禮拜一考察那以後我當召委都不准考察我們來監督誰來辦考察不要這樣子嘛每次都雙標一堆委員打電話給我一定也有執政黨委員打給我我不要講名字啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].start |
27229.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].end |
27234.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[891].text |
說你當朝委禮拜一辦考察好不好 給我們好做事大家一個體諒羅廷偉辦考察 啊 羅廷偉薪水小偷打電話來拜託的時候不是這樣子的啦啊現在又嫌棄我沒關係 給你嫌棄 檯面上嫌棄 但不要雙標不要私底下打電話來拜託朝委排考察啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].start |
27254.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].end |
27264.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[892].text |
要鬧這樣子以後我呼籲所有教育文化委員會誰都不准排考察哪個人排考察就抵制他 唾棄他我們看下個禮拜誰排考察不是嘛 你說沒有時間嘛 趕快審預算嘛一定要戳破你們之間委員的一些默契嗎一定要這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].start |
27281.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].end |
27301.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[893].text |
對啦 對啦啊就不尊重別人然後打電話來說你希望考察啊 吳立華委員的預算都審完了不是嗎啊會期還沒結束尊重我的排案嘛我有我的tempo嘛啊我就跟你講了現在學生也說他們有困境讓我先讓學生的事情處理嘛啊陰陽午餐遇到貢丸湯只有九顆我要處理陰陽午餐嘛這也是民生議題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].start |
27308.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].end |
27334.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[894].text |
教育部門是不是要說明剛剛那個盧君委員請教育部門回應不是啊 真的是不是有機會大家也簽個名一下以後禮拜一都不要考察全部禮拜一大家都來開會不要委員 明明就執政黨委員一直在那邊講別人然後自己在那邊偷偷的辦考察這我真的呼籲啊委員不要雙標啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].start |
27336.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].end |
27341.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[895].text |
好 我們針對這個本日有委員在這個提案請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].start |
27351.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].end |
27374.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[896].text |
针对本日会议议程继续审查委员幻云等16人拟据学校公餐法草案等相关修正草案鉴于地方制度法第18条第19条规定国中小学校营养午餐为地方自治事项然各地方县市相关午餐运作机制不一能有待中央地方沟通协调 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].start |
27375.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].end |
27399.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[897].text |
你請作成如下決議本日會議進行到此為止相關法案審查令定期審議提案人 吳立華 吳思堯 陳秀寶 郭益晴 宣讀完畢好那有沒有異議好有異議來舉手表決我們先清點人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].start |
27409.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].end |
27429.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[898].text |
沒關係 劉書斌委員不是好在場出席委員時仁不安主席現在開始表決贊成提案請舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].start |
27435.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].end |
27463.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[899].text |
好 來 1 2 3 4 5 6好 6位 好 謝謝反對請舉手蘇冰委員你也可以舉手啦只是不會列入而已啦他可以表達他的意願啊對不對1 2 3 4好 4位那我也舉個手啦雖然我不能夠表決但是表達一下我的意願很可惜沒有辦法繼續為小朋友營養午餐來推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].start |
27468.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].end |
27488.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[900].text |
好 表決結果 贊成這一次的程序提動議那多數本案通過在場出席委員 食人不安主席 贊成者6人 反對者4人我們現在 贊成者多數本案通過好 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].start |
27492.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].end |
27516.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[901].text |
學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案 相關草案只能定期繼續審查報告委員會今天議程處理完畢 現在要上會 謝謝那我還是要講一下 請列入公報紀錄陳佩玉委員要求列入公報紀錄剛剛不是只有民進黨委員要求主席讓國教署進行說明因為連剛剛劉淑冰委員都說了 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].start |
27516.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].end |
27525.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[902].text |
從1月開始到現在各縣市的狀況難道各位你們不好奇嗎地方政府在跟中央政府之間開會不會只有財化法的問題相關的這些法規適應的問題他都不想聽嗎但主席決定蠻橫的就處理臨時動議這件事 |