| IVOD_ID |
17340 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17340 |
| 日期 |
2026-04-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2026033106 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2026-04-09T13:30:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-04-09T14:54:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:23:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2dc5bef6d628ca92918db79021df942dcf7a9d5466ed3f8140e6a82fbd929088e95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-04-09T14:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：行政院函請審議「強化防衛韌性及不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條例草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條例草案」及國民黨黨團擬具「強化國防及對美軍事採購特別條例草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:30:20 - 14:54:00 |
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各位同仁大家好那今日党团协商会议协商行政院含情损意强化防卫任性及不对称战力计划采购特别条例草案以及台湾民众党党团拟据保卫国家安全及强化不对称战力计划采购特别条例草案国民党党团拟据强化国防及对美军事采购特别条例草案等三案 |
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1928.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這三案於一五年三月二十三號二十五及二十六號三天兼本院外交及國防財政兩委員會聯席並案審查完略並決於交由黨團協商依立法院職權刑事法第七十條本案由民進黨黨團負責召集協商並由我擔任協商會議主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1932.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1959.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
先進行前我們先介紹到場的委員首先是王定一委員林柱英委員羅美玲委員王安祥委員范雲委員吳佩奕委員接下來我們介紹機關代表首先是國防部部長顧立雄先生副參謀總長執行官黃志偉上將 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1964.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1983.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
常務司長楊基榮中將參事石溫榮中將政務辦公室主任孫立芳中將主計局局長謝祺賢中將戰略規劃司司長黃文綺中將法律事務司司長吳義聖中將國防採購室主任趙雅萍中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1995.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2023.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
中科院副院長林高洲先生再來介紹機關代表那就介紹代表為主財政部國庫署陳柏成署長行政院主計總處陳慧娟副主計長公務預算處陳台偉專門委員經濟部產業發展署周宇新副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2026.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2053.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
數位發展部自動安全署綜合規劃組李東儀組長衛生福利部會計處鄭美琴檢任審查社會及家庭署江琴英科長國家科學及技術委員會郭金副處長行政院國文工程委員會謝基正代理處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2056.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2078.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
審計部第二廳陳正庸廳長法務部廟江縣參事那我們今天很可惜看到國民黨沒有派員參加但是民眾黨的這個委員大家都有來參與那我們是再次 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2079.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2100.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
很沉痛的呼籲這個重要的這種國防特別條例已經為了國民黨已經更改了兩次的時間到今天那事前也跟所有的國民黨的委員都努力的來去溝通但是到最後還是一樣可能是他們的黨邊就是克裕竹 傅坤祺委員還是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2102.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2125.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我認為這樣子對我們的國防條例的審議是一點幫助都沒有根本沒有辦法討論根本沒有辦法來去做之前沒有共識的地方來去商討那這樣子對整個國家的推進是完全沒有幫助的那我們不希望今天就這樣子再空轉下去不要因為明天是要見習近平還是怎麼樣然後就故意把這個事情往後擱置不要跟中共連動嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2128.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2138.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
沒關係 我們今天一樣要讓這場的委員盡可能的把該說的話還是要說出來首先我們請王定偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2141.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2160.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主席各位同仁本席在這邊先建議雖然在委員會進行黨團協商我們希望它不只是一個程序而是一個有效的溝通那我會建議主席這邊我們再多等十分鐘我們期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2161.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2188.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有國民黨的委員能夠出席黨團的協商你贊成或反對可以在這邊表達態度你支持不支持可以在這邊把話說出來而不是只因為中國國民黨黨主席鄭麗文現在正要在中國見習近平結果呢國防預算擋國防特別預算的特別條例也擋然後現在連這一個有人形容叫過水式的協商連來都不來兩度更改時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2190.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2218.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
兩度更改時間到底為了什麼那國防特別預算的特別條例攸關著台灣不對稱戰力的建立防空力量的整合這是台灣盾以及台美合作在台灣建立我們的軍工供應鏈以及台灣精準彈藥及產線的取得在條例的送入委員會之前在程序委員會被杯葛十次在委員會的討論我相信各位同仁都有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2220.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2245.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
國民黨的版本3800億那個沒有加恩他的加恩要另外提特別條例他就是給你3800億那委員會的討論呢沒有辦法聚焦有共識那現在呢由召委主責召委召開委員會的黨團協商這個程序其實各黨可以來這邊表達意見反對也可以可是怎麼會為了擔心習近平不高興就不來了呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2247.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2275.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
威脅台灣2300萬軍民同胞的就是中國共產黨的解放軍我們在山上頂著雪顧著雷達站的是我們的國軍弟兄姐妹在最難的疆域在那些遙遠的小島上站著崗的是我們的國軍弟兄姐妹我們的國防預算是要讓他拿足夠的預算正確的裝備保護我們2300萬人的家而唯一威脅的是中國共產黨的解放軍就現在為了建 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2276.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2303.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
共產黨的老大習近平預算要擋 國防不給然後現在連我們這個協商會議兩度更改到現在根本就乾脆不來我個人在這邊表達很深的遺憾不管誰執政這無關政治 更無關政黨這攸關2300萬人我們共同的家園一個基本的安全我們所應該最支持的國軍應該要得到充足的資源去守護這個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2304.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2330.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以今天這一個重要的協商程序我們很遺憾到目前為止主要的在野黨兩個主要在野黨有一位來我們王委員早上就說他今天會來我們表達感謝跟肯定我們希望能夠有一些共識但是另外一個政黨連來都不來這個協商根本無法簽字導致無法進行程序我們的年度國防預算被擋住了我們的特別預算特別條例被擋住了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2331.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2345.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
特別條例通過之後還要再送進來審特別預算的細項這樣子的阻擋全世界唯一高興的應該只有解放軍吧所以我建議主席我們再多等一下子我希望國民黨的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2346.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2374.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
能夠選擇來出席把贊成或反對的意見說出來這1.25兆分8年攸關台灣整體防衛力量提升的特別預算到底哪裡不適合到底哪裡不對這不是黨派之見這是一個國防安全的需求所以我們建議再等一下那我們也希望國人的擔憂八成民意的支持1.25兆我們希望跟在野黨能夠達成共識謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2376.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2379.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
主席首先我先建議就是我們可以一邊等一邊發言因為我想今天包括民眾黨的王委員來到這裡那麼他一定也是希望能夠促進我們現在整個國防預算特別條例能夠有機會達到一個共識因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2401.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2414.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
鄭麗文在去見習近平的時候國民黨發了一個文宣叫做躺平那我希望現在國民黨的委員不是正在家裡躺著等習近平躺著等習近平明天見了鄭麗文之後給指令因為我們都知道鄭麗文講說希望兩岸帶來的和平是天上飛的是鳥不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2426.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2450.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
飛機結果習近平就打了個臉讓他直接這兩天不斷的有共軍來擾台希望海裡游的是魚不要是軍艦結果習近平也開了個軍艦再打他一耳光我要講的就是其實和平如果你躺著等習近平那就是投降了所以這是為什麼今天我們現在坐在這裡可以看得到是中國直接就是出軍艦出軍機 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2452.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2463.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
把這些軍艦大炮架在我們的脖子上而現在第一線站在第一線守護我們的國軍最需要的就是國防特別條例趕快過關然後讓預算送進來審查這個才是最重要的躺在那裡等習近平你等到的是什麼等到的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2474.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2485.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
共軍 共艦 直接給你來下馬威還有就是從今天早上10點到今天下午4點鐘在黃海北部的實彈演習 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2487.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2492.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以我們這個時候坐在這裡為什麼我們民進黨認為不應該把時間往後延那就是因為現在就是一個關鍵的時刻而這筆預算守護的是所有的人包括現在躺平等著習近平的國民黨委員現在時間是2點12分我還是希望他們有在看直播現在從辦公室走過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2514.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2531.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不用五分鐘一切都還來得及躺平等著習近平等到的絕對不會是和平那我要講的是包括現在國民黨在後來委員會當中所通過的附帶決議其實大家如果認真來讀這個附帶決議是完全在打假球 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2535.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2540.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
也就是那一天在我們預算條例審查的過程當中他們講的都很好聽都說要過但是這張附帶決議拆穿了他們的假面所謂三千五百億加NN等於零就是告訴大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2555.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2563.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
今天根本就是不要讓我們來買所謂國家以及第一線的官兵最需要的預算如果今天我的解讀不對國民黨的委員你們還來得及趕快坐起來不要再躺平了可以移動你們的腳步用你的兩條腿走過來解釋你們是不是三千五百億加NN等於零就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2586.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2593.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
打假球直接要讓這筆預算消失 根本連買都買不到這是我的發言 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2602.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2627.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
國安特別條例在程序委員會被在野黨擋了九次之多然後好不容易進入到委員會來做審查那審查的時候我們也發現在野黨的版本其實跟院版是差異非常的大所以我們希望能夠快速的進入朝野協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2627.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2648.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那可是呢国民党在没有任何合理的理由之下呢要求要延迟两次他们要求要延迟来做协商可是呢是没有任何合理的这个理由那我们认为合理的理由呢就是明天郑立文呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2649.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2670.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
要跟習近平見面他們呢要得到了這個聖旨之後呢要怎麼做才要來做這個協商所以真的是非常非常的這個遺憾我剛才非常認同林楚昀委員所說的所謂他們的躺平主義在我看來躺平主義呢國民黨的躺平主義是充滿了滿滿的這個投降主義所以我們在這裡等因為國民黨的委員其實都在國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2677.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2686.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
他們沒有任何一個理由說不來協商沒有任何一個理由說他們要做演會可是他們今天卻在這個政協會之前都不來了都不來了很顯然就是為了明天的這個政協會這一點真的是讓大家非常的遺憾我想國人都看在眼裡這就是國民黨這就是國民黨好 以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2705.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2705.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
民進黨現場6位立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2723.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2727.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
外交國防委員會有七位委員有另外一位召委馬文君還有委員徐巧欣、牛許廷、陳永康黃仁、黃建斌還有韓院長那居然沒有一位在這裡出席我要講這是我擔任立委的第二屆也是第七年 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2744.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2753.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我參加過這麼多的不管是黨團協商或者是委員會協商沒有看過有一個政黨沒有派出任何一位委員到場的那只有兩個解釋第一個 他們完全不關心台灣的國防強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2760.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2776.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那第二個他們就算有人關心不敢出席因為怕耽誤了他們在中國的正主席可能見不了他心心念念想要的歷史地位就是習正會那大家都有看到剛剛林楚瑩委員也有講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2778.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2800.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
今天十點到六點鐘他們在進行實彈射擊禁止船隻靠近更不用講還有軍機軍艦所以這個和平之旅根本就是被軍機軍艦還有實彈射擊包圍的一個和平之旅可是今天不出席這個協商雖然我們還在等他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2801.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2824.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那坐實了外界所說的這根本就是一個躺平之旅那我要再次痛心的強調就是軍購真的是賣方市場那國防部不管是部長或者是他們的司長都已經幾度講了這時間因為我們一直無法審查藍白拖到現在極度的急迫 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2825.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2845.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那82號海馬市是幸好在美方願意的理解下所以爭取到能夠延後付款那結果今天早就安排通知的條例協商還要被繼續拖延那我想請問馬文君、徐巧興、牛許廷、陳永康、黃仁、黃建斌還有韓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2846.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2867.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
你們到底有沒有看到國防部黃司長他的中將的眼淚我真的覺得我們寶貴的強化台灣自我防衛能力的時間不應該再被你們消耗尊重主席願意繼續等他們但我真的覺得他們在消耗全台灣強化自我防衛能力的寶貴時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2872.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2898.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好謝謝范雲委員其實這一次我們的這個會議已經在之前上週我們就已經在跟國民黨已經有磋商過了已經延了兩次然後到現在那再來就是說在美方的這些參眾議員來訪的時候我看到我們的這些同仁們也都是非常正面的在回應國防特別條例不管是說要在審理上面或者是說在黨團協商的參與上面可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2899.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2913.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我剛才提到的這些委員們還是受制於他們的黨鞭 傅坤祺還是受制於他們的主席 鄭麗文那我想這兩個是關鍵人物來擋這個特別條例的審議跟這個跨黨派的這種協調我們非常遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2918.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2944.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那我還是再次呼籲 國民黨的委員們 中生代的委員們 新生代的委員們不管是從北到南 我們都看到有些委員有不同的心聲 不同的看法可是卻沒有辦法今天一起來協商國民黨這些黨 這一次今天的這些條例裡面有一些是上一次在討論過程當中 就已經說這一次要帶過來他們黨團討論完之後要帶過來 包含施行日期也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2946.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2967.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
包含是不是要來去送公園成績這些爭點都是可以在這一次先做討論的但是都沒有來沒有來的話我們這樣子是不是要原地踏步那要再重新再講一次嗎那在我們等待之前我們還是希望是不是要請王委員要不要來簡單的發言一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2969.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2985.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
好我想大家都知道台灣民眾黨也提出我們自己的軍購的特別條例的版本所以在前幾個禮拜我們在做了這個非常複雜的討論我們都一直在呼籲希望大家能夠支持台灣民眾黨的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2986.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3010.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
今天也是一樣,我來到這裡進行協商我也是希望大家能夠支持我們台灣民眾黨的版本因為我想這個條例其實也蠻重要如果今天真的沒有辦法達到協議我們也希望藉由韓院長的高度能夠幫助我們促成大家我一直在講,希望能夠促成大家的意中求同 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3011.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3025.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
的一個這個特別條例的部分那不論是哪一次的協商包括未來的協商我們都希望大家所有委員能夠支持我們台灣民眾黨的版本以上再次感謝汪委員那這個汪委員的出席對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3027.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3041.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們的這種跨黨派的這種協商都是很有幫助的那其實這幾次我們都有針對這個國防特別條例來交換意見我們希望國民黨在我們現在在討論的時間還有時間還有機會能夠盡快來出席接下來我們請吳佩儀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3046.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3051.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
主席剛剛主席有才事說我們這個會議我們這個王定義委員提議說我們再等10分鐘也許這個國民黨的委員會來參與但是我要提醒大家我們已經等了20分鐘了我們已經等了20分鐘至今這個黨團的協商沒有看到國民黨的國防外交委員的委員出席 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3068.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3071.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那麼我想請問大家我們今天坐在這裡是為了什麼我們為什麼要審軍購條例台灣為什麼要軍購我們為什麼需要台灣要跟我們民主夥伴的國家合作不就是為了要和平嗎以實力求和平有實力才有和平這是人類從古希臘時代就有的智慧啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3091.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3094.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以我不了解我們立法院有一些黨團的同仁到今天不知道是在裝傻還是真的沒有慧根口口聲聲說台灣要和平兩岸要和平台灣目前對台灣最大的軍事威脅力量就是來自於中國這個不是我們說的這是客觀上面的事實嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3113.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3117.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那如果今天我們全體國人不分黨派我們襲擊的就是和平我們不就是需要來支持我們國家的軍購嗎我今天感到非常的痛心我感到非常的痛心我看到我們國家我們第一線最精英的軍人國防部的團隊他們坐在這裡在等待的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3136.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3143.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
他們希望可以有機會當面的來向立法院依法報告說明為什麼國防部需要這個軍購條例為什麼這個軍購條例對我們台灣國家自我防護保衛是有所幫助的當大家都依法依程序坐在這裡等待開會的時候卻又為了國民黨的委員們集體翹班啊連人來都沒有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3164.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3173.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
各位現在國民黨很多委員我相信你們正在收看直播就我所知很多人現在都在立法院但是立法委員仍在立法院卻不敢依法來會議室參加黨團協商開會是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3181.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3199.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
是鄭麗文交代你們不准來嗎是傅昆吉交代你們不准來嗎還是習近平交代國民黨的委員不准來國防外交委員會審查軍購條例國民黨你們可以翹班各位國人請你們看清楚了立法委員仍在立法院卻不來參與立法院的開會這樣子的態度國人可以接受嗎我希望國民黨要對今天集體缺席 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3210.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3214.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
集體下班這種惡劣的行徑要給社會一個交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3215.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3219.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
人在立法院卻不來開會是什麼原因到底是誰下令這麼可怕讓你們連來開會都不敢開會那我還是要再次懇求因為據我所知我們立法院黨團不分黨派的同仁在陪伴韓國瑜院長接待外賓的時候都向外賓表達我們台灣需要積極的來架構我們的軍事國防力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3241.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3249.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
但是怎麼轉過頭來當只有我們自己人在的時候你們在開會不管是條例的審查也好你現在連協商的場合你們一字一句都在阻擋原來難道中國國民黨的黨是黨軍購的黨黨預算的黨黨條例的黨嗎總預算也不審軍購條例也不審通通都不審查的立法委員到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3269.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3275.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
要如何來向國人交代我們是非常沉重 非常的心痛的來再次的盼望 也要拜託懇求 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3279.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3287.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我們立法院各個黨派的委員大家可不可以負起自己的責任依法依程序的來參與這個協商軍購條例真的對台灣來講非常重要我們的軍購時間已經拖延了我們大家都坐在這裡等待請問台灣的安全還要等多久請問台灣的軍購還要等多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3306.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3311.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
謝謝吳佩儀委員的發言因為現在國民黨黨團還沒有代表出席那我們先暫時休息四分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3334.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3335.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們來管整罐點 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3368.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3375.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這不能進行啊對啊在後面他瘦一點沒有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3403.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3405.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
烧饼烧饼 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3433.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3450.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
等一下喔 等一下喔OK Alright |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3537.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3537.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3917.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3923.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我們繼續開會 因為國民黨的代表沒有來我們先請國防部長 顧部長來簡單的發言一下國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3946.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3974.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
就這個特別預算我們耗費了相當久的時間我們就這個強化防衛專案整體的效能進行了詳細的規劃我們也跟美方進行了相當綿密的討論之後提出了這個特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3976.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3996.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我們必須在這裡凱切的告訴在座的委員及各位國人中國不斷的持續擴張軍力在軍事上對我們的威脅日益的嚴峻隨時可以由信轉也由言轉戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
4005.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
4031.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以我們強化防衛人心跟不對稱戰力是我們一個迫在眉睫而且必須要從過去所累積的在不斷地堆疊上去所必須要進行的一個工作那我們之前做過精密專報我們也在這個條例審查之初我們也提出了一個充分的一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
4032.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
4053.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那這邊特別有提到就是說我們為什麼要編列這個特別預算基於這個公預算的一個限制那也基於我們建金備戰的一個需要我們一直認為一照2500億是分8年編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
4059.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
4086.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
在跟行政院的相關的單位包括主席總書等認為在我們財政可以負擔的情況之下我們必須要正視整個印太區域和平的穩定是要靠我們願意來承擔我們應該負擔的防衛責任作為一個最大的前提去考量這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
4088.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
4102.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
剛剛很多委員也提到如果我們都不願意挺身付出來展現我們防衛自己國土的一個能力跟決心那別人為什麼要幫我們為什麼要幫我們所以我 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
4111.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
4134.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
在編列的這個過程當中我我們深刻的感受到是說我們真的是花了很很大的心力去編寫這個特別條例以及後續在條例通過之後大家會看得到的這些每一個的預算書表所能夠展現出來帶給我們真正 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
4141.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4150.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
表現出我們有這個防衛的決心的那一個詳細的規劃這樣子的一個詳細的規劃代表了我們願意在集體嚇阻的一個架構下台灣作為第一島鏈的前緣我們不會置身事外我們願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4172.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4194.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我們也有能力透過這樣子的一個戰力的提升來防衛我們自己的國土我們的家園所以集體嚇阻防衛分攤這是美國在國家安全戰略裡面一再提起的一個對美國來講他們的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4195.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4216.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
最大的核心利益的對印太區域國家的要求也就是說它的核心利益是要維持印太區域的和平穩定而它對印太區域國家不只是對我們也對其他第一島鏈的國家有做這樣同樣要求而我們我們站在第一島鏈最前緣我們面對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4220.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4244.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
就是一個始終不放棄武力要併吞台灣的中國我們有什麼理由我們有什麼理由我們不願意在這個集體嚇阻的戰略架構下來承擔自我防衛的責任我沒有辦法理解這樣子的自我防衛責任能力的提升到底有什麼值得大家來質疑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4248.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4267.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那我們當然不會只限於對美的軍購就認為我們的整體防衛專戰效能就可以藉由這個來加強因為還要顧慮到的是我們整個國防自主量能的一個提升因為這樣才有韌性因為這樣才有韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4276.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4305.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
所以我只是在這裡最懷是凱切的這個目前朝野不分黨派理性的來思考我們除了跟美國討論美國願意供售的項目之外提升我們國防自主的一個量能包括無人載具包括相關的AI決策的輔助的系統包括相關我們應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4308.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4334.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
增加的這些彈藥的產線等等這些都是強化我們作戰任性一個非常非常重要的一個課題如果我們能夠做到國際盟友就不會質疑我們自我防衛的決心但最可怕的就是所有的國際盟友假設都質疑我們有沒有這樣的決心的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4340.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4364.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
那我們會面臨什麼我沒有辦法能夠想像就是說我們要尋求的和平不站在實力形成嚇阻的基礎之上我沒有辦法想像我們除了這個以外面對虎視眈眈的中國我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4371.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4400.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
在大家所有的民主夥伴都同意大家一起承擔這個集體嚇阻大家都來強化自我防衛的能力然後大家形成這樣子一個有效的嚇阻然後維持一個印太區域台海區域的一個和平穩定維持現狀那我們大家都不願意去 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4404.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4423.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
去接受這個我們面對的軍事威脅日益嚴峻的一個現實環境就認為我們沒有需要沒有需要進一步強化沒有需要進一步提升整理防衛作戰的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4427.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4454.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我沒有辦法能夠想像我們未來會面臨什麼樣子的更險惡的一個情境然後沒有什麼能力來持續的捍衛我們經過幾十年來不斷的奮鬥所得到的這樣的一個民主自由的生活我本身是 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4458.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4475.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我們都從1990年代過來我過去擔任律師,這個大家都知道在擔任律師期間,我1988年唸書回來投入這個社會改革的相關運動 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4477.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4503.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我三刻的體驗到我們民主真的不是天上掉下來的是多少的前輩努力來換得這個民主自由的生活我希望大家要珍惜我也特別珍惜不管我在這個位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4505.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4533.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
做了好與不好但是我衷心的期盼大家能夠支持國軍大家能夠支持我們國防力量的提升來永續的維持我們經過歷來多少的前面努力所能夠得到的這樣子真的是得之不易的民主自由的生活這樣的民主自由生活不容任何人來 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4534.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4556.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
催產來破壞我希望大家一起珍惜一起支持國軍一起來增加我們的國防力量以嚇阻以實力形成嚇阻以嚇阻來取得真正的和平以上謝謝謝謝顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4562.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4581.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
還是在強調這個鄭篤熙他希望盼望和平但那個不是策略也沒有辦法改變任何事情那是寄望在你敵人的仁慈那不是策略我們要能夠控制我們能夠控制的那就是包含我們自己對自己的國防投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4583.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4602.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
包含這一次我們跨黨派理論上要來去審議的很可惜我們沒有看到我們沒有辦法做超知在自己的能力的提升我們只能夠盼望只能夠希望嗎這是不對的這樣子的躺平也好或者是他的追求和平的方式完全是沒有戰略觀的本日結商 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4609.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4621.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
因為國民黨沒有代表出席無法取得共識後續立法院職權行使法第十二章相關規定另定期繼續協商非常遺憾但是謝謝 散會 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-04-09T14:01:37.523000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-04-09T14:01:38.083000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
各位同仁大家好。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-04-09T14:01:39.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-04-09T14:02:19.228000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
今日黨團協商會議協商行政院函請審議「強化防衛韌性及不對稱戰力計畫
採購特別條例草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條
例草案」及國民黨黨團擬具「強化國防及對美軍事採購特別條例草案」等 3案，這 3 案於 115 年
3 月 23 日、25 日及 26 日 3 天，經本院外交及國防、財政兩委員會聯席併案審查完竣，並決議
交由黨團協商。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0.543 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-04-09T14:02:20.089000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-04-09T14:02:28.497000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
依立法院職權行使法第七十條，本案由民進黨黨團負責召集協商，並由我擔任
協商會議主席。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-04-09T14:04:46.805000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-04-09T14:05:34.425000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
今天很可惜看到國民黨沒有派員參加，但是民眾黨的委員都有來參與，我們再次很沉痛地呼
籲，重要的國防特別條例已經為了國民黨更改了兩次的時間到今天，事前也跟所有國民黨的委
員都努力地去溝通，但是到最後還是一樣，可能是他們的黨鞭刻意阻撓，傅崐萁委員還是一樣
，我認為這樣子對我們國防條例的審議是一點幫助都沒有，根本沒有辦法討論、根本沒有辦法
就之前沒有共識的地方來商討，這樣子對整個國家的推進是完全沒有幫助的。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.946 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-04-09T14:05:35.145000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-04-09T14:05:45.353000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
我們不希望今天
就這樣子再空轉下去，不要因為明天要見習近平還是怎麼樣，然後就故意把這件事情往後擱置
，不要跟中共連動嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.981 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-04-09T14:05:48.320000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-04-09T14:05:58.037000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
沒關係，我們今天一樣，要讓在場的委員儘可能地把該說的話還是要說
出來。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.903 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-04-09T14:05:58.037000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-04-09T14:05:58.598000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
首先請王定宇委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.625 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-04-09T14:06:01.571000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-04-09T14:06:02.452000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
主席、各位同仁。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-04-09T14:06:02.893000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-04-09T14:06:52.753000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
本席在這邊先建議，在委員會進行黨團協商，我們希望它不只是一
個程序，而是一個有效的溝通，我會建議主席這邊再多等 10 分鐘，我們期待有國民黨的委員能
夠出席黨團的協商，你贊成或反對可以在這邊表達態度、你支持不支持可以在這邊把話說出來
，而不是只因為中國國民黨黨主席鄭麗文現在正要在中國見習近平，結果國防預算擋、國防特
別預算的特別條例也擋，然後現在這一個有人形容叫「過水式的協商」，連來都不來，兩度更
改時間，兩度更改時間到底為了什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-04-09T14:06:53.994000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-04-09T14:07:15.017000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
國防特別預算的特別條例攸關著臺灣不對稱戰力的建立、防空力量的整合，這是臺灣盾，以
及臺美合作在臺灣建立我們的軍工供應鏈、以及臺灣精準彈藥及產線的取得，在條例送入委員
會之前，在程序委員會被杯葛 10 次。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-04-09T14:07:15.857000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-04-09T14:07:28.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
在委員會的討論我相信各位同仁都有看到，國民黨的版本
3,800 億沒有「+N」，它的「+N」要再另外提特別條例，它就是給你 3,800 億。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.82 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-04-09T14:07:28.304000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-04-09T14:07:45.596000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
在委員會的討論
沒有辦法聚焦有共識，現在由主責召委召開委員會的黨團協商，這個程序其實各黨可以來這邊
表達意見，反對也可以，可是怎麼會為了擔心習近平不高興就不來了呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.987 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-04-09T14:07:47.253000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-04-09T14:07:53.096000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
威脅臺灣 2,300 萬軍民
452
立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄
同胞的，就是中國共產黨的解放軍啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.553 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-04-09T14:07:53.096000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-04-09T14:07:57.539000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
我們在山上頂著雪顧著雷達站的是我們的國軍弟兄姊妹
啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.92 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-04-09T14:07:58.920000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-04-09T14:08:27.977000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
在最南的疆域，在那些遙遠的小島上，站著崗的是我們的國軍弟兄姊妹，我們的國防預算
是要讓他拿足夠的預算、正確的裝備來保護我們 2,300 萬人的家，而唯一的威脅是中國共產黨的
解放軍，結果現在為了見共產黨的老大習近平，預算要擋、國防不給，然後我們這個協商會議
兩度更改時間，到現在根本就乾脆不來，我個人在這邊表達很深的遺憾。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-04-09T14:08:28.817000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-04-09T14:09:20.209000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
不管誰執政，這無關政治，更無關政黨，這攸關 2,300 萬人共同家園的基本安全，我們最支持
的國軍應該要得到充足的資源去守護這個國家，所以今天這一個重要的協商程序，我們很遺憾
，到目前為止兩個主要在野黨只有一位委員來，王委員早上就說他今天會來，我們表達感謝跟
肯定，我們希望能夠有一些共識，但是另外一個政黨連來都不來，這個協商根本無法簽字，導
致無法進行程序，我們的年度國防預算被擋住了、我們的特別預算特別條例被擋住了，特別條
例通過之後還要再送進來審特別預算的細項，這樣子的阻擋，全世界唯一高興的應該只有解放
軍吧！ |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.978 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-04-09T14:09:21.010000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-04-09T14:09:39.103000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
所以我建議主席，我們再多等一下子，我希望國民黨的委員能夠選擇來出席，把贊成或
反對的意見說出來，這 1.25 兆分 8 年，攸關臺灣整體防衛力量提升的特別預算到底哪裡不適合
？ |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-04-09T14:09:39.703000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-04-09T14:09:41.824000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
到底哪裡不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
王委員定宇 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-04-09T14:09:41.824000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-04-09T14:09:54.071000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
這不是黨派之見，這是一個國防安全的需求，所以我們建議再等一下，針對
國人的擔憂、8成民意的支持，1.25兆我們希望跟在野黨能夠達成共識，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-04-09T14:09:54.071000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-04-09T14:09:55.207500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
好，非常感謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-04-09T14:09:55.207500+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-04-09T14:09:56.344000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
我們先請林楚茵委員發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-04-09T14:09:56.344000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-04-09T14:09:59.847000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
主席，首先我建議我們可以一邊等一邊發言，我想今天包括民眾黨的王委員來到這裡
，他一定也是希望能夠促進國防預算特別條例有機會達到共識。 |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-04-09T14:10:21.364000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-04-09T14:10:33.132000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
在鄭麗文去見習近平的時候，國民黨發了一個文宣叫做「躺平」，我希望現在國民黨的委員
不是正在家裡躺著等習近平，躺著等習近平明天見了鄭麗文之後給指令。 |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.985 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-04-09T14:10:33.152000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-04-09T14:10:59.184000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
因為我們都知道，鄭
麗文講說希望兩岸帶來的和平是，天上飛的是鳥不是飛機，結果習近平就打了個臉，直接在這
兩天不斷地有共機擾臺；希望海裡游的是魚不是軍艦，結果習近平也開了個軍艦，再打他一耳
光。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.965 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-04-09T14:10:59.804000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-04-09T14:11:22.503000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
我要講的是，如果和平是你躺著等習近平，那就是投降了，所以這是為什麼今天我們坐在這
裡，可以看到的是中國直接出軍艦、出軍機，把這些軍艦、大砲架在我們的脖子上，而現在站
在第一線守護我們的國軍最需要的就是國防特別條例趕快過關，然後讓預算送進來審查，這個
才是最重要的。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.958 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-04-09T14:11:22.523000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-04-09T14:11:23.203000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
躺在那裡等習近平，你等到的是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-04-09T14:11:23.203000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-04-09T14:11:49.142000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
等到的就是共機、共艦直接給你下馬威
，還有就是從今天早上 10 點到下午 4 點鐘在黃海北部的實彈演習，所以我們這個時候坐在這裡
，為什麼我們民進黨認為不應該把時間往後延？ |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.986 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-04-09T14:11:49.403000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-04-09T14:11:51.464000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
因為現在就是一個關鍵的時刻，而這筆預算守
護的是所有的人，包括現在躺平等著習近平的國民黨委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-04-09T14:11:51.464000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-04-09T14:12:22.005000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
現在的時間是 2 點 12 分，我還是希
望他們有在看直播，現在從辦公室走過來不用 5 分鐘，一切都還來得及，躺平等著習近平，等
到的絕對不會是和平。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.982 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-04-09T14:12:22.885000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-04-09T14:12:31.289000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
我要講的是，國民黨後來在委員會當中所通過的附帶決議，其實大家如果認真來讀，這個附
帶決議完全是在打假球。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-04-09T14:12:35.871000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-04-09T14:13:00.727000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
也就是那一天在我們條例審查的過程當中，他們講得都很好聽、都說
453
立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄
要過，但是這張附帶決議拆穿了他們的假面，所謂「3,500 億+N」，N 等於零，就是告訴大家根
本不要讓我們來買國家以及第一線官兵最需要的裝備，如果今天我的解讀不對，國民黨的委員
你們還來得及，趕快坐起來，不要再躺平了！ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.851 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-04-09T14:13:00.747000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-04-09T14:13:32.372000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
可以移動你們的腳步，用你的兩條腿走過來解釋
，你們是不是「3,500 億+N」，N 等於零，就是打假球，直接要讓這筆預算消失，根本連買都買
不到？ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
林委員楚茵 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-04-09T14:13:33.513000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-04-09T14:13:33.994000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
這是我的發言，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-04-09T14:13:33.994000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-04-09T14:13:38.403000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
謝謝林楚茵委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-04-09T14:13:38.403000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-04-09T14:13:42.812000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
請羅美玲委員，羅美玲完之後是范雲委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
羅委員美玲 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-04-09T14:13:42.812000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-04-09T14:14:22.852000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
國安特別條例在程序委員會被在野黨擋了 9 次之多，然後好不容易進入到委員會來做
審查，在審查的時候我們也發現在野黨的版本跟院版的差異非常大，所以我們希望能夠快速地
進入朝野協商，可是國民黨在沒有任何合理的理由之下要求延遲兩次，他們要求延遲協商，可
是沒有任何合理的理由。 |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.902 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
羅委員美玲 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-04-09T14:14:23.933000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-04-09T14:14:41.524000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
我們認為合理的理由就是明天鄭麗文要跟習近平見面，他們要得到了
這個聖旨知道怎麼做之後才要來做協商，所以真的是非常非常地遺憾。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.828 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
羅委員美玲 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-04-09T14:14:42.004000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-04-09T14:15:06.645000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
我非常認同剛剛林楚茵委員所說的，他們的躺平主義在我看來，國民黨的躺平主義就是充滿
了滿滿的投降主義，所以我們在這裡等，因為國民黨的委員其實都在國內，他們沒有任何的理
由說不來協商、沒有任何的理由說他們要做延會，可是他們今天卻在「鄭習會」之前都不來了
、都不來了，很顯然就是為了明天的「鄭習會」，這一點真的是讓大家非常地遺憾，我想國人
都看在眼裡，這就是國民黨、這就是國民黨。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.927 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
羅委員美玲 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-04-09T14:15:06.645000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-04-09T14:15:06.866000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
好，以上，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
范委員雲 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-04-09T14:15:25.441000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-04-09T14:16:12.973000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
我想大家都有看到，民進黨在現場有 6位立委，包含我們外交及國防委員會的幾位委員
，還有我跟吳沛憶委員在，民眾黨也有 1 位出席，可是國民黨在外交及國防委員會有 7 位委員
，包括另外一位召委馬文君，還有委員徐巧芯、牛煦庭、陳永康、黃仁、黃建賓及韓院長，居
然沒有一位在這裡出席，我要講，這是我擔任立委的第 2 屆，也是第 7 年，我參加過這麼多不
管是黨團協商或者是委員會協商，沒看過有一個政黨沒有派出任何一位委員到場的，這只有兩 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.665 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
個解釋 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-04-09T14:16:13.033000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-04-09T14:16:34.829000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
第一個，他們完全不關心臺灣的國防強化；第二個，他們就算有人關心，不敢出席，
因為怕耽誤了他們在中國的鄭主席可能完成不了他心心念念想要的歷史地位，就是「習鄭會」。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.943 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
個解釋 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-04-09T14:16:35.349000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-04-09T14:17:07.159000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
大家都有看到，剛剛林楚茵委員也有講了，今天 10 點到 16 點他們在進行實彈射擊，禁止船
隻靠近，更不用講還有軍機、軍艦，所以這個「和平之旅」，根本就是一個被軍機、軍艦還有
實彈射擊包圍的「和平之旅」，可是今天不出席這個協商，雖然我們還在等他們，但這坐實了
外界所說的，根本就是一個「躺平之旅」。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.958 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
個解釋 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-04-09T14:17:08.019000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-04-09T14:17:52.427000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
我要再次痛心地強調，軍購真的是賣方市場，國防部不管是部長或者是他們的司長都已經幾
度講了，這個時間因為我們一直無法審查，藍白拖到現在是極度地急迫，82 套海馬士是幸好在
美方願意理解下，所以爭取到能夠延後付款，結果今天早就安排通知的條例協商還要被繼續拖
延，那我想請問馬文君、徐巧芯、牛煦庭、陳永康、黃仁、黃建賓及韓院長，你們到底有沒有
看到國防部黃司長（中將）的眼淚？ |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.932 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
個解釋 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-04-09T14:17:52.427000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-04-09T14:18:07.702000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
我真的覺得我們寶貴的強化臺灣自我防衛能力的時間不應
該再被你們消耗，尊重主席願意繼續等他們，但我真的覺得他們在消耗全臺灣強化自我防衛能
454
立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄
力的寶貴時間。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.824 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-04-09T14:18:13.252000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-04-09T14:18:13.993000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
謝謝范雲委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-04-09T14:18:13.993000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-04-09T14:18:23.837000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
其實這一次的會議在之前（上週）我們跟國民黨已經有磋商過了，已經延了兩次，然後到現
在。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-04-09T14:18:24.838000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-04-09T14:18:53.040000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
再來就是說，在美方這些參眾議員來訪的時候，我看到我們這些同仁們也都是非常正面地
在回應國防特別條例，不管是在審理上面或者是在黨團協商的參與上面，可是我剛才提到的這
些委員們還是受制於他們的黨鞭傅崐萁、還是受制於他們的主席鄭麗文，我想這兩個是關鍵人
物，來擋這個特別條例的審議跟跨黨派的協調，我們非常遺憾。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.979 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-04-09T14:18:58.380000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-04-09T14:19:34.805000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
我還是再次呼籲國民黨的委員們，中生代的委員們、新生代的委員們，不管是從北到南，我
們都看到有一些委員有不同的心聲、不同的看法，可是今天卻沒有辦法一起來協商，在今天要
協商的這些條例裡面，有一些是上一次在討論過程當中就已經說這一次要帶過來，他們黨團討
論完了之後要帶過來，包含施行日期也好、包含是不是要送公務員懲戒，其實這些爭點都是可
以在這一次先做討論的，但是都沒有來，沒有來的話我們是不是又要原地踏步？ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.918 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-04-09T14:19:36.126000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-04-09T14:19:40.209000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
又要重新再講
一次嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-04-09T14:19:40.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-04-09T14:19:47.215000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
在我們等待的時候，王委員要不要簡單地發言一下？ |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.81 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
王委員安祥 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-04-09T14:19:49.482000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-04-09T14:20:05.417000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
好，我想大家都知道台灣民眾黨有提出我們自己的軍購特別條例版本，所以前幾個禮
拜在做非常複雜的討論時，我們都一直在呼籲，希望大家能夠支持台灣民眾黨的版本。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
0.943 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
王委員安祥 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-04-09T14:20:06.558000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-04-09T14:20:17.226000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
今天也是一樣，我來到這裡進行協商，我也是希望大家能夠支持台灣民眾黨的版本，我想這
個條例其實也滿重要啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.936 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
王委員安祥 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-04-09T14:20:18.107000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-04-09T14:20:26.733000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
如果今天真的沒有辦法達到協議，我們也希望藉由韓院長的高度，能
夠幫助我們來促成啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.946 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
王委員安祥 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-04-09T14:20:28.294000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-04-09T14:20:40.484000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
我一直在講，希望能夠促成大家有一個異中求同的特別條例，不論是哪
一次的協商，包括未來的協商，我們都希望所有的委員能夠支持台灣民眾黨的版本，以上。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0.908 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-04-09T14:20:42.266000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-04-09T14:20:50.155000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
再次感謝王委員，王委員的出席對於我們這種跨黨派的協商是很有幫助的。 |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.935 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-04-09T14:20:51.557000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:00.628000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
其實這幾次我們
都有針對國防特別條例來交換意見，希望國民黨在我們現在在討論的時間，還有時間、還有機
會能夠儘快來出席。 |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.981 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-04-09T14:21:00.789000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:01.509000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
接下來請吳沛憶委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.778 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-04-09T14:21:06.637000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:09.198000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
主席，剛剛主席有裁示說我們這個會議……王定宇委員提議說我們再等 10 分鐘，也
許國民黨的委員會來參與。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-04-09T14:21:09.198000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:11.338000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
但是我要提醒大家，我們已經等了 20 分鐘了，至今這個黨團協商沒
有看到國民黨的外交及國防委員會的委員出席。 |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.913 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-04-09T14:21:28.323000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:28.683000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
我想請問大家，我們今天坐在這裡是為了什麼
？ |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-04-09T14:21:28.683000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:28.843000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
我們為什麼要審軍購條例？ |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2026-04-09T14:21:28.923000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:29.103000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
臺灣為什麼要軍購？ |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2026-04-09T14:21:29.103000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:30.044000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
我們臺灣為什麼需要跟我們民主夥伴的國家
合作？ |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.905 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2026-04-09T14:21:30.064000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:30.244000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
不就是為了要和平嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2026-04-09T14:21:30.244000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:31.024000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
以實力求和平，有實力才有和平，這是人類從古希臘時代就有的
智慧啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2026-04-09T14:21:51.564000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:52.765000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
所以我不了解，我們立法院有一些黨團的同仁，到今天不知道是在裝傻，還是真的沒有慧根
？ |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2026-04-09T14:21:52.785000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2026-04-09T14:21:54.385000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
口口聲聲說臺灣要和平、兩岸要和平，目前對臺灣最大的軍事威脅力量就是來自於中國，這
個不是我們說的，這是客觀上面的事實嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2026-04-09T14:22:13.975000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2026-04-09T14:22:15.096000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
如果今天我們全體國人不分黨派，我們希冀的就是
和平，我們不就是需要來支持我們國家的軍購嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0.951 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2026-04-09T14:22:15.096000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2026-04-09T14:22:16.156000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
我今天感到非常地痛心，我剛剛非常地痛心！ |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.778 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2026-04-09T14:22:16.176000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2026-04-09T14:22:17.797000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
我看到我們國家第一線最精英的軍人、國防部
的團隊，他們坐在這裡，在等待的是什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2026-04-09T14:22:36.377000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2026-04-09T14:22:42.681000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
他們希望可以有機會，當面地來向立法院依法報告
455
立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄
、說明為什麼國防部需要這個軍購條例、為什麼這個軍購條例對我們臺灣國家自我防護保衛是
有所幫助的？ |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2026-04-09T14:22:42.701000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:04.574000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
當大家都依法、依程序坐在這裡等待開會的時候，國民黨的委員們卻集體翹班，
連人來都沒有來！各位！ |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.976 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:05.875000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:08.156000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
現在國民黨很多委員我相信你們正在收看直播。 |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:08.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:13.939000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
就我所知，很多人現在都在立法院，
但是立法委員人在立法院，卻不敢依法來會議室參加黨團協商、開會，是為什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0.978 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:21.249000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:24.472000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
是鄭麗文交
代你們不准來嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:24.472000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:27.334000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
是傅崐萁交代你們不准來嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:27.334000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:31.697000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
還是習近平交代國民黨的委員不准來外交及國
防委員會審查軍購條例？ |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:32.718000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:35.760000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
國民黨你們可以蹺班，各位國人請你們看清楚了！ |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:36.701000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:38.703000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
立法委員人在立法
院，卻不來參與立法院的開會，這樣子的態度國人可以接受嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0.97 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:38.703000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:54.186000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
我希望國民黨要對今天集體缺席、集體蹺班這種惡劣的行徑，給社會一個交代。 |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
0.969 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:55.700000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:56.421000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
人在立法院
卻不來開會，是什麼原因？ |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:56.441000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:56.521000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
到底是誰下令？ |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:56.581000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:56.601000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
這麼可怕！ |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:56.621000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:56.921000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
你們連來開會都不敢開會！ |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2026-04-09T14:23:57.061000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2026-04-09T14:23:59.263000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
我還是要再次懇求，因為據我所知，我們立法院黨團不分黨派的同仁在陪伴韓國瑜院長接待
外賓的時候，都向外賓表達我們臺灣需要積極地來架構我們的軍事國防力量。 |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
0.986 |
| transcript.gazette[85].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[85].start |
2026-04-09T14:24:21.559000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[85].end |
2026-04-09T14:24:27.203000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].text |
但是怎麼轉過頭
來，當只有我們自己人在的時候，你們在開會，不管是條例的審查也好，現在連協商的場合，
你們一字一句都在阻擋。 |
| transcript.gazette[85].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[86].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[86].start |
2026-04-09T14:24:27.263000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[86].end |
2026-04-09T14:24:28.004000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].text |
難道中國國民黨的「黨」是擋軍購的「擋」、擋預算的「擋」、擋條
例的「擋」嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[86].quality |
0.769 |
| transcript.gazette[87].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[87].start |
2026-04-09T14:24:28.004000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[87].end |
2026-04-09T14:24:51.081000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].text |
總預算也不審、軍購條例也不審，通通都不審查的立法委員，到底要如何來向
國人交代？ |
| transcript.gazette[87].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[88].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[88].start |
2026-04-09T14:24:51.221000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[88].end |
2026-04-09T14:25:02.969000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].text |
我們是非常沉重、非常心痛地來再次盼望，也要拜託、懇求我們立法院各個黨派的委員，大
家可不可以負起自己的責任？ |
| transcript.gazette[88].quality |
0.979 |
| transcript.gazette[89].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[89].start |
2026-04-09T14:25:03.590000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[89].end |
2026-04-09T14:25:06.052000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].text |
依法、依程序地來參與這個協商，軍購條例真的對臺灣來講非常
重要，我們的軍購時間已經拖延了！ |
| transcript.gazette[89].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[90].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[90].start |
2026-04-09T14:25:06.152000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[90].end |
2026-04-09T14:25:06.653000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].text |
我們軍購時間已經拖延了！ |
| transcript.gazette[90].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[91].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[91].start |
2026-04-09T14:25:06.673000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[91].end |
2026-04-09T14:25:07.693000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].text |
我們大家都坐在這裡等待，請
問臺灣的安全還要等多久？ |
| transcript.gazette[91].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[92].speaker |
吳委員沛憶 |
| transcript.gazette[92].start |
2026-04-09T14:25:07.714000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[92].end |
2026-04-09T14:25:07.894000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].text |
請問臺灣的軍購還要等多久？ |
| transcript.gazette[92].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[93].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[93].start |
2026-04-09T14:25:26.754000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[93].end |
2026-04-09T14:25:27.455000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].text |
謝謝吳沛憶委員的發言。 |
| transcript.gazette[93].quality |
0.8 |
| transcript.gazette[94].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[94].start |
2026-04-09T14:25:28.055000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[94].end |
2026-04-09T14:25:31.978000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].text |
因為現在國民黨黨團還沒有代表出席，我們先暫時休息 10分鐘。 |
| transcript.gazette[94].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[95].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[95].start |
2026-04-09T14:25:31.978000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[95].end |
2026-04-09T14:35:37.369000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].text |
休息（14時 25 分）
繼續開會（14時 35分） |
| transcript.gazette[95].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[96].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[96].start |
2026-04-09T14:35:37.369000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[96].end |
2026-04-09T14:35:38.990000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].text |
我們繼續開會。 |
| transcript.gazette[96].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[97].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[97].start |
2026-04-09T14:35:38.990000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[97].end |
2026-04-09T14:35:42.512000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].text |
因為國民黨的代表沒有來，我們先請國防部顧部長來簡單發言一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[97].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[98].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[98].start |
2026-04-09T14:35:42.512000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[98].end |
2026-04-09T14:35:43.512000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].text |
主席，各位委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[98].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[99].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[99].start |
2026-04-09T14:35:43.332000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[99].end |
2026-04-09T14:36:34.683000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].text |
國防部就這個特別預算耗費了相當久的時間，我們就強化防衛作戰
整體的效能進行了詳細的規劃，我們也跟美方進行了相當綿密的討論之後，提出了這個特別條
例。 |
| transcript.gazette[99].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[100].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[100].start |
2026-04-09T14:36:36.377000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[100].end |
2026-04-09T14:36:56.083000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].text |
我們必須在這裡剴切地告訴在座的委員以及各位國人，中國不斷地持續擴張軍力，在軍事
上對我們的威脅日益嚴峻，隨時可以由訓轉演，由演轉戰。 |
| transcript.gazette[100].quality |
0.883 |
| transcript.gazette[101].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[101].start |
2026-04-09T14:37:05.430000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[101].end |
2026-04-09T14:37:19.733000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].text |
所以強化防衛韌性跟不對稱戰力是
我們迫在眉睫的，而且是從過去所累積再不斷地堆疊上去所必須要進行的一個工作。 |
| transcript.gazette[101].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[102].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[102].start |
2026-04-09T14:37:20.753000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[102].end |
2026-04-09T14:37:31.735000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].text |
我們之前做過機密專報，我們也在這個條例審查之初提出了一個充分的說明。 |
| transcript.gazette[102].quality |
0.969 |
| transcript.gazette[103].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[103].start |
2026-04-09T14:37:33.731000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[103].end |
2026-04-09T14:37:39.294000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].text |
這邊特別有提
到，就是我們為什麼要編列這個特別預算？ |
| transcript.gazette[103].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[104].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[104].start |
2026-04-09T14:37:40.275000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[104].end |
2026-04-09T14:37:48.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].text |
基於公務預算的限制，也基於我們建軍備戰的需要
。 |
| transcript.gazette[104].quality |
0.905 |
| transcript.gazette[105].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[105].start |
2026-04-09T14:37:50.802000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[105].end |
2026-04-09T14:38:26.832000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].text |
我們一直認為 1 兆 2,500 億元是分 8 年編列，在跟行政院包括主計總處等相關單位討論，認為
在我們財政可以負擔的情況之下，我們必須要正視：整個印太區域和平的穩定是要靠我們願意
來承擔我們應該負擔的防衛責任，做一個最大的前提去考量這件事情。 |
| transcript.gazette[105].quality |
0.883 |
| transcript.gazette[106].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[106].start |
2026-04-09T14:38:28.627000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[106].end |
2026-04-09T14:38:42.195000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].text |
456
立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄
剛剛很多委員也提到，如果我們都不願意挺身付出，來展現我們防衛自己國土的能力跟決心
，那別人為什麼要幫我們？ |
| transcript.gazette[106].quality |
0.762 |
| transcript.gazette[107].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[107].start |
2026-04-09T14:38:42.455000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[107].end |
2026-04-09T14:39:26.258000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].text |
所以在編列的過程當中，我們深刻地感受到我們真的是花了很大的
心力去編寫這個特別條例，以及後續在條例通過之後，大家會看得到的每一個預算書表所能夠
展現出、真正表現出我們有防衛決心的詳細規劃。 |
| transcript.gazette[107].quality |
0.989 |
| transcript.gazette[108].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[108].start |
2026-04-09T14:39:26.258000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[108].end |
2026-04-09T14:39:30.162000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].text |
這樣子的一個詳細的規劃，代表了我們願意
在集體嚇阻的架構下，臺灣作為第一島鏈的前緣，我們不會置身事外。 |
| transcript.gazette[108].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[109].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[109].start |
2026-04-09T14:39:30.282000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[109].end |
2026-04-09T14:40:01.548000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].text |
我們願意也有能力透過
這樣子的一個戰力的提升，來防衛我們自己的國土、我們的家園。 |
| transcript.gazette[109].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[110].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[110].start |
2026-04-09T14:40:01.548000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[110].end |
2026-04-09T14:40:19.762000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].text |
所以集體嚇阻、防衛分擔，這是美國在國家安全戰略裡面一再提起的，對美國來講，這是他
們最大的核心利益以及對印太區域國家的要求。 |
| transcript.gazette[110].quality |
0.911 |
| transcript.gazette[111].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[111].start |
2026-04-09T14:40:20.283000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[111].end |
2026-04-09T14:40:31.889000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].text |
也就是說，他的核心利益是要維持印太區域的
和平穩定，而他對印太區域國家不只是對我們，也對其他第一島鏈的國家做同樣的要求。 |
| transcript.gazette[111].quality |
0.945 |
| transcript.gazette[112].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[112].start |
2026-04-09T14:40:32.429000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[112].end |
2026-04-09T14:40:55.605000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].text |
而我
們站在第一島鏈最前緣，我們面對的就是一個始終不放棄武力要併吞臺灣的中國，我們有什麼
理由不願意在這個集體嚇阻的戰略架構下，來承擔自我防衛的責任？ |
| transcript.gazette[112].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[113].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[113].start |
2026-04-09T14:40:56.265000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[113].end |
2026-04-09T14:41:04.894000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].text |
我沒有辦法理解這樣子的
自我防衛責任能力的提升，到底有什麼值得大家來遲疑的？ |
| transcript.gazette[113].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[114].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[114].start |
2026-04-09T14:41:08.377000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[114].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[114].end |
2026-04-09T14:41:27.677000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[114].text |
我們當然不會只限於對美的軍購，
就認為我們的整體防衛作戰效能就可以藉由這個來加強，因為還要顧慮到我們整個國防自主量
能的提升，因為這樣才有韌性！ |
| transcript.gazette[114].quality |
0.985 |
| transcript.gazette[115].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[115].start |
2026-04-09T14:41:36.917000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[115].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[115].end |
2026-04-09T14:42:16.936000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[115].text |
所以我在這裡最後還是剴切地務請朝野不分黨派理性地來思考，我們除了跟美國討論美國願
意供售的項目之外，提升我們國防自主的量能，包括無人載具、包括 AI 相關決策的輔助系統，
以及我們應該要增加的彈藥產線等等，這些都是強化我們作戰韌性非常非常重要的一個課題。 |
| transcript.gazette[115].quality |
0.897 |
| transcript.gazette[116].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[116].start |
2026-04-09T14:42:16.936000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[116].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[116].end |
2026-04-09T14:42:25.218000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[116].text |
如果我們能夠做到，國際盟友就不會質疑我們自我防衛的決心。 |
| transcript.gazette[116].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[117].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[117].start |
2026-04-09T14:42:29.160000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[117].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[117].end |
2026-04-09T14:42:46.307000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[117].text |
但最可怕的就是，假設所有的
國際盟友都質疑我們有沒有這樣的決心的時候，那我們會面臨什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[117].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[118].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[118].start |
2026-04-09T14:42:46.307000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[118].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[118].end |
2026-04-09T14:43:37.453000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[118].text |
我沒有辦法想像我們要尋
求的和平不站在實力形成嚇阻的基礎之上；我沒有辦法想像，我們除了這個以外，面對虎視眈
眈的中國，我們所有的民主夥伴都同意大家一起承擔這個集體嚇阻、大家都來強化自我防衛的
能力，然後大家形成這樣一個有效的嚇阻，以維持印太區域、臺海區域的和平穩定、維持現狀
。 |
| transcript.gazette[118].quality |
0.992 |
| transcript.gazette[119].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[119].start |
2026-04-09T14:43:37.894000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[119].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[119].end |
2026-04-09T14:44:31.068000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[119].text |
大家都不願意去接受我們面對的軍事威脅日益嚴峻的現實環境，就認為我們沒有需要進一步
強化，沒有需要進一步提升整體防衛作戰的能力，我沒有辦法想像我們未來會面臨什麼樣更險
惡的情境，以及我們有什麼能力來持續地捍衛我們經過幾十年來不斷地奮鬥所得到的這樣民主
自由的生活。 |
| transcript.gazette[119].quality |
0.943 |
| transcript.gazette[120].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[120].start |
2026-04-09T14:44:38.446000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[120].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[120].end |
2026-04-09T14:44:45.608000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[120].text |
我們都從 1990 年代過來，我過去擔任律師，這個大家都知道。 |
| transcript.gazette[120].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[121].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[121].start |
2026-04-09T14:44:46.468000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[121].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[121].end |
2026-04-09T14:45:10.344000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[121].text |
在擔任律師的期間，我 1988
年念書回來，投入社會改革的相關運動，我深刻地體驗到我們的民主真的不是天上掉下來的，
是多少的前輩努力來換得這個民主自由的生活。 |
| transcript.gazette[121].quality |
0.925 |
| transcript.gazette[122].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[122].start |
2026-04-09T14:45:10.944000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[122].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[122].end |
2026-04-09T14:45:57.814000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[122].text |
我希望大家要珍惜，我也特別珍惜，不管我在
這個位置做得好與不好，但是我衷心地期盼大家能夠支持國軍、大家能夠支持我們國防力量的
提升，來永續地維持我們經過多少前輩努力所能夠得到的這樣一個得之不易的民主自由的生活
，這樣民主自由的生活不容任何人來摧殘、來破壞。 |
| transcript.gazette[122].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[123].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[123].start |
2026-04-09T14:45:57.814000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[123].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[123].end |
2026-04-09T14:46:15.344000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[123].text |
我希望大家一起珍惜、一起支持國軍、一起來增加我們的國防力量，以實力形成嚇阻，以嚇
阻來取得真正的和平。 |
| transcript.gazette[123].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[124].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[124].start |
2026-04-09T14:46:16.265000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[124].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[124].end |
2026-04-09T14:46:16.965000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[124].text |
以上，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[124].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[125].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[125].start |
2026-04-09T14:46:16.965000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[125].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[125].end |
2026-04-09T14:46:16.985000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[125].text |
謝謝顧部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[125].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[126].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[126].start |
2026-04-09T14:46:22.874000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[126].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[126].end |
2026-04-09T14:46:37.067000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[126].text |
457
立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄
本席還是強調，鄭主席希望、盼望和平，但那個不是策略也沒有辦法改變任何事情，那是寄
望在你敵人的仁慈，那不是策略。 |
| transcript.gazette[126].quality |
0.703 |
| transcript.gazette[127].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[127].start |
2026-04-09T14:46:37.728000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[127].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[127].end |
2026-04-09T14:46:56.148000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[127].text |
我們要能夠控制我們能夠控制的，那就是包含我們自己對自
己的國防投資、包含這一次我們跨黨派理論上要去審議的，很可惜我們沒有看到，我們沒有辦
法做操之在己的能力的提升，我們只能夠盼望、只能夠希望嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[127].quality |
0.977 |
| transcript.gazette[128].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[128].start |
2026-04-09T14:46:56.148000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[128].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[128].end |
2026-04-09T14:46:56.628000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[128].text |
這是不對的。 |
| transcript.gazette[128].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[129].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[129].start |
2026-04-09T14:46:57.409000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[129].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[129].end |
2026-04-09T14:47:02.393000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[129].text |
這樣子的躺平也
好或者是他追求和平的方式，完全是沒有戰略觀的。 |
| transcript.gazette[129].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[130].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[130].start |
2026-04-09T14:47:02.413000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[130].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[130].end |
2026-04-09T14:47:18.985000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[130].text |
本日協商因為國民黨沒有代表出席，無法取得共識，後續依立法院職權行使法第十二章相關
規定，另定期繼續協商。 |
| transcript.gazette[130].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[131].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[131].start |
2026-04-09T14:47:20.366000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[131].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[131].end |
2026-04-09T14:47:21.666000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[131].text |
非常遺憾，但是謝謝！散會。 |
| transcript.gazette[131].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[132].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[132].start |
2026-04-09T14:47:22.166000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[132].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[132].end |
2026-04-09T14:47:27.594571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[132].text |
散會（14時 47 分）
458
立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄 |
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| transcript.speakers[2].total_seconds |
223.12 |
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SPEAKER_02 |
| transcript.speakers[2].speaker |
SPEAKER_02 |
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| transcript.speakers[3].total_seconds |
162.39 |
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SPEAKER_03 |
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SPEAKER_04 |
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| transcript.speakers[4].total_seconds |
98.08 |
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SPEAKER_04 |
| transcript.speakers[4].speaker |
SPEAKER_05 |
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| transcript.speakers[5].total_seconds |
209.74 |
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SPEAKER_05 |
| transcript.speakers[5].speaker |
SPEAKER_06 |
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| transcript.speakers[6].total_seconds |
224.81 |
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SPEAKER_06 |
| transcript.speakers[6].speaker |
SPEAKER_07 |
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350.76 |
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SPEAKER_03 |
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