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馬文君 @ 第11屆第6會期第2次會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 郭台銘 軍委員質詢 |
| 00:00:14,600 | 00:00:15,880 | 謝謝主席 |
| 00:00:15,880 | 00:00:19,640 | 麻煩請院長還有僑委會委員長 |
| 00:00:19,640 | 00:00:24,200 | 好 佐委員長還有僑委會委員長請備詢 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:35,000 | 委員好 院長早安 |
| 00:00:35,000 | 00:00:43,000 | 院長我們接下來已經要審總預算 |
| 00:00:43,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 今天其實有很多的新聞 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 其實大概對於我們僑委會委員長在相關的 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 不管是我們可能在公務車輛的運用 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 或者在預算的使用 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 或者向家人參與我們很多公務行程 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 這個部分是不是給委員長一點點時間來說明一下 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:12,000 | 謝謝 請委員長 |
| 00:01:12,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 簡單說明好不好 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 感謝馬召偉 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 自此我們在公務預算上的使用 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 一切都是按照過去相關的法律規定 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 所以包括今年以來 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 例行性的監察院審計部來檢查之外 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 民眾黨的委員還特別要求他們再來檢查一遍 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 所以我們事實上在兩三個月內被檢查了兩遍 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 兩遍的檢查都很清楚的證明 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 所有一切都是依法辦理 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:49,000 | 沒有任何圖利個人或有圖利私人的情事發生 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 所以這些資料我們一直從2020年一直查到現在 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 所以我在這邊可以跟委員做以上的報告 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 對於我們在過去對像外交 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 像僑務的相關的預算 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 其實我們都盡量的去協助 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:10,000 | 然後也讓大家可以順利的去執行 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 可是如果面臨到這樣的問題 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 尤其在很多的預算上面 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 剛剛委員長有做簡單的說明 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 我們希望後續可以提供更詳細的資料 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 因為內外的分計還有公司必須要很明確的分明 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 因為這必須要對所有我們的人民去做交代 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 因為我們在預算不斷增加的情況底下 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 我們還是每一分每一毫 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 人民的納稅錢都應該要好好的去掌握 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 然後去拿捏他的分寸 |
| 00:02:37,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 接下來我想要請教 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 委員長可以請回 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 接下來我想要請教院長 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 因為我們接下來要審的是 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 116年度中央政府的總預算 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 我想要先請您看看這兩個數字 |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 105年度稅出的部分 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 有一兆9760億 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 到了116年度 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 我們稅出大概3兆9266億 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 10年幾乎整整多了一倍 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 我們不是拿這個數字來批評 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 這是行政院自己拿來宣傳的數字 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 行政院秘書長說稅出的規模翻倍 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 代表台灣國力成長 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 院長預算增加一倍就代表國力增加一倍嗎 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 如果這個邏輯可以成立 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 那治國真的就太簡單了 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 因為明年我們可以編4兆5千億 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 我們國力又增加 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 那後年我們編5兆 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 那我們是不是又更強 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 我們現在要看的是 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 今天立法院在審預算 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 我們不是只看今年編多少 |
| 00:03:44,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 而是我們過去花的錢到底解決了什麼 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 這十年來我們增加將近兩兆元的支出 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 我們想要請教的是 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 我們少子化到底解決了沒有 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 然後勞保的財務結構解決了沒有 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 健保的財務壓力解決了沒有 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 我們閒置的公共設施減少了沒有 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:11,000 | 還有我們能源一遇到國際危機 |
| 00:04:11,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 還要不要拿幾千億出來補貼 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 或者我們國防採購的價格 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 有沒有因為採購量變大 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 或我們國防的預算增加 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 而讓我們的戰力變得更強大 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 這些都是我們想要討論的 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 或者應該要去重視的預算編列的一個實質內涵 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 所以預算增加的速度 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 我們現在看起來好像遠遠超過我們問題消失的速度 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 這是我們今天想要初步做探討的 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 因為8月20日行政院正式通過116年度總預算 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 宣布整體國防預算一兆1225億 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 不到半個月9月3號又提出追加預算 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 國防的部分也篩進了1457億 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 到了9月23日總統又把明年國防預算喊到超過1.3兆 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 總預算剛過追加預算馬上來 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 現在看起來好像這個預算只要能夠送進來 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 不管用什麼樣的方式然後不斷的加 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 年度預算屢創新高還不夠 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 特別預算也年年編編得不足不夠 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 我們又提追加預算 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 我們看看這幾年的時間是增加了非常多 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 這3兆9266億事實上真的是國家今年全部的帳嗎 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:43,000 | 因為我們還有相關的特別預算 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 還有追加預算還有基金還有跨年度已經承諾 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 可是未來必須要付款的這些相關的支出 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 這些其實才是總帳 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 所以在這裡我們看到這一次的追加預算裡面 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 又放了6076億其中中油增資大概有2338億 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 能源跟民生措施大概1875億 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 國防也占了1457億 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 當我們看到這些的時候 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 因為把它拆成三部分 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 這個部分院長有沒有一個簡要的說明 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 像這樣的預算我們不斷不斷的編 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 我們增加了那麼多我們剛剛講的這些問題到底有沒有解決 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 首先委員剛剛第一張的圖卡 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 10年來預算倍增國力倍增 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 那不代表明年預算再倍增國力就會倍增 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 那是用10年的時間大家努力出來的 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 每年就持續的緩緩的上升 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 即使要國力倍增一倍也不一定預算倍增一倍就夠 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 那是要持續累積的 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 這個你看這是10年不是一年 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 再來您提到的這個少子化 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 就是因為我們看到少子化是全世界現在人口減少的未來的一個趨勢 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 不僅台灣如此其他世界大部分的國家都如此 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 除非是那個比較開發中的國家 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 所以我們就提出了人口對策新戰略 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 總統所提出人口對策新戰略 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 希望從不僅從生育而已 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 從托育從教育從居住從職場 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 從職場都全面來調整讓大家能夠願意生 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 那國防也是如此 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 大家也知道現在一般的工程金額都往下再加 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 況且是軍工的這個採購 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 那我們採購的越精密的越先進的這些武器 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 當然要付出更多的 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 那現在我們的科技成長又這麼快 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 每一座金圓廠起來都是數百億數千億的這樣的投資 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 那為了政府可以提供更多的工業區科學園區產業園區 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 我們必須說更多的土地的開發 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 土地的取得跟開發成本都遠遠超過以前 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 那現在我們又對中小微企業又對治水 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 要全面來做更多的投入 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 四年治水一千億 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 八年中小微加碼一千億 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 這個都是過去所沒有的 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 所以很希望委員能夠支持政府 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 是在這個環境底下要做好基礎建設 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 做好發展保護國家 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 要照顧到人民 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 要顧慮到人口對策的新戰略 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 這個是全面性的一個規劃 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 院長這些問題我們都知道它確實存在 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 可是因為我們每年編的預算 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 我們必須要看到它的成果 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:31,000 | 今天會講到超編、幅編 |
| 00:08:31,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 我們先把這個定義把它講清楚 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 因為不是預算大它就叫幅編 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:39,000 | 如果說我們國防需要增加 |
| 00:08:39,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 那就編 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 如果我們的老人變多 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 長照需要增加 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:45,000 | 那也應該編 |
| 00:08:45,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 該照顧人民的錢本來就應該花 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 可是我們現在要探討的是 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 當我們增加這麼多的預算的時候 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 它的成果到底是什麼 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:57,000 | 我們現在可以來簡單的看一下 |
| 00:08:57,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 因為我們這一次 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 在追加預算裡面 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 我們看到這個一千國防的部分 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 一千四百五十幾億 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 將近一千五百億 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 這個裡面它其中有含了無人機的部分 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:15,000 | 一個就是濱海堅真型無人機 |
| 00:09:15,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 還有濱海攻擊型無人機 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:21,000 | 另外還有一個小型自殺無人艇 |
| 00:09:21,000 | 00:09:25,000 | 這三項加起來總共五百五十九億 |
| 00:09:25,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 追加預算現在都已經十月了 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 你明年在我們剛通過的特別條例裡面 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 也有這三項 |
| 00:09:33,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 因為你們說要列進去 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 所以在那兩千 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 原來行政院只提了兩千一百億 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 在野黨甚至提高到兩千四百億 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 可是為什麼 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:48,000 | 可是為什麼我們在追加預算還要編這三個 |
| 00:09:48,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 這三項在追加預算占了五百五十九億 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:53,000 | 如果它那麼重要 |
| 00:09:53,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 你當時你在特別條例的時候 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 為什麼只有兩千一百億 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 你直接變成兩千七百億就好了 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:03,000 | 為什麼沒有編 |
| 00:10:03,000 | 00:10:05,000 | 你現在突然又用追加預算 |
| 00:10:05,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 聽慧莉法院不准編特別預算 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 院長你沒有聽清楚 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 你才剛通過特別條例 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 就是無人機的部分 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 無人機我們通過兩千四百億 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:21,000 | 裡面已經含了我剛剛講的這三行 |
| 00:10:21,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:23,000 | 你用年度預算 |
| 00:10:23,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 你那個是用年度預算 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 不是用特別預算 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 院長你剛自己提過通過的特別條例 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 顯然你並沒有進入狀況 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:37,000 | 在我們通過的條例裡面 |
| 00:10:37,000 | 00:10:38,000 | 部長說明 |
| 00:10:38,000 | 00:10:40,000 | 我們這三項有沒有在我們 |
| 00:10:40,000 | 00:10:41,000 | 沒有通過特別預算 |
| 00:10:41,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 我們行政院版提出來的特別條例 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 立法院並沒有通過 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:49,000 | 我們現在通過的不是行政院版 |
| 00:10:49,000 | 00:10:50,000 | 我們通過的 |
| 00:10:50,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 所以您通過的是 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:56,000 | 你們 桂園通過的是那個年度預算 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 無人機 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 因為這跟委員稍微解釋一下 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:00,000 | 在通過的時候 |
| 00:11:00,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 我們在一百一十六年度的總預算 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:05,000 | 已經編進 |
| 00:11:05,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 原來通過的時間點 |
| 00:11:07,000 | 00:11:09,000 | 通過時間點是在我們總預算 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:10,000 | 已經提出去之後 |
| 00:11:10,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 不准我們提出特別預算 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:15,000 | 因此不准我們提出特別預算的情況之下 |
| 00:11:15,000 | 00:11:18,000 | 我們只好用追加預算的方式 |
| 00:11:18,000 | 00:11:20,000 | 追加預算也是年度預算的一種 |
| 00:11:20,000 | 00:11:22,000 | 所以我們是按照 |
| 00:11:22,000 | 00:11:24,000 | 桂園所通過的法例 |
| 00:11:24,000 | 00:11:26,000 | 我們來放在我們的年度預算 |
| 00:11:26,000 | 00:11:29,000 | 只是我們希望能夠加速的進行 |
| 00:11:29,000 | 00:11:31,000 | 因此我們放在追加預算 |
| 00:11:31,000 | 00:11:33,000 | 追加預算也是屬於年度預算 |
| 00:11:33,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 部長您說錯了 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:37,000 | 因為行政院自己就提出了兩千一百億 |
| 00:11:37,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 我要再強調一次 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:41,000 | 你們也提出了兩千一百億 |
| 00:11:41,000 | 00:11:43,000 | 後來通過特別預算 |
| 00:11:43,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 希望放在年度預算是在野黨提出的版本 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:51,000 | 可是當你們提出兩千一百億的時候 |
| 00:11:51,000 | 00:11:53,000 | 並沒有把這 |
| 00:11:53,000 | 00:11:55,000 | 濱海型跟濱海艱真型 |
| 00:11:55,000 | 00:11:56,000 | 濱海攻擊型 |
| 00:11:56,000 | 00:11:58,000 | 還有小型自殺無人體 |
| 00:11:58,000 | 00:11:59,000 | 放在那裡面 |
| 00:11:59,000 | 00:12:01,000 | 如果它那麼重要 |
| 00:12:01,000 | 00:12:07,000 | 你們在兩千一百億裡面的特別條例的預算裡面就會提出來 |
| 00:12:07,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 我們兩千一百億就是擺這幾型的 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 那我擺了以後 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 後來立法院不是一直在討論嗎 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:16,000 | 討論的時間點 |
| 00:12:16,000 | 00:12:18,000 | 決定不通過的時間點 |
| 00:12:18,000 | 00:12:20,000 | 如果它已經在那裡面 |
| 00:12:20,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 如果它已經在裡面 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:26,000 | 如果你追加預算就不用再編了 |
| 00:12:26,000 | 00:12:28,000 | 因為你已經有這三型 |
| 00:12:28,000 | 00:12:31,000 | 明年的預算公布預算裡面也有 |
| 00:12:31,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 這個我們在 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:36,000 | 委員您的時間上我們可能要稍微排序一下這整個的時間 |
| 00:12:36,000 | 00:12:37,000 | 沒有 |
| 00:12:37,000 | 00:12:39,000 | 本來這個特別條例當中 |
| 00:12:39,000 | 00:12:40,000 | 要編特別預算 |
| 00:12:40,000 | 00:12:42,000 | 結果大院通過的是 |
| 00:12:42,000 | 00:12:43,000 | 一個那個條例 |
| 00:12:43,000 | 00:12:45,000 | 那個不叫特別條例 |
| 00:12:45,000 | 00:12:46,000 | 但是用年度預算 |
| 00:12:46,000 | 00:12:48,000 | 所以我們就沒有特別預算可以編 |
| 00:12:48,000 | 00:12:50,000 | 所以我們就把明年度 |
| 00:12:50,000 | 00:12:52,000 | 本來要編特別預算那部分 |
| 00:12:52,000 | 00:12:54,000 | 用追加預算編在今年 |
| 00:12:54,000 | 00:12:55,000 | 追加預算也是年度預算 |
| 00:12:55,000 | 00:12:57,000 | 部長的意思是如此 |
| 00:12:57,000 | 00:12:59,000 | 我們今年的預算什麼時候確定的 |
| 00:12:59,000 | 00:13:01,000 | 什麼時候送的 |
| 00:13:01,000 | 00:13:05,000 | 明年116年預算什麼時候送 |
| 00:13:05,000 | 00:13:06,000 | 8月底送 |
| 00:13:06,000 | 00:13:07,000 | 8月底 |
| 00:13:07,000 | 00:13:11,000 | 我們特別預算我們是什麼時候送 |
| 00:13:11,000 | 00:13:13,000 | 我們沒有特別預算 |
| 00:13:13,000 | 00:13:14,000 | 特別條例 |
| 00:13:14,000 | 00:13:16,000 | 如果你們要講這個 |
| 00:13:16,000 | 00:13:17,000 | 特別條例2100 |
| 00:13:17,000 | 00:13:20,000 | 我們特別條例一直在立法院審議當中 |
| 00:13:20,000 | 00:13:21,000 | 什麼時候送的 |
| 00:13:21,000 | 00:13:23,000 | 如果你們要說時間點 |
| 00:13:23,000 | 00:13:25,000 | 您講的是特別條例嗎 |
| 00:13:25,000 | 00:13:26,000 | 對 |
| 00:13:26,000 | 00:13:27,000 | 特別條例的 |
| 00:13:27,000 | 00:13:31,000 | 我們是在應該去年就已經提出來的特別條例 |
| 00:13:31,000 | 00:13:33,000 | 後來就一直討論 |
| 00:13:33,000 | 00:13:35,000 | 那貴院也很多版本 |
| 00:13:35,000 | 00:13:37,000 | 後來等到通過 |
| 00:13:37,000 | 00:13:40,000 | 去年的時候有沒有這三項 |
| 00:13:40,000 | 00:13:43,000 | 去年再放在特別條例裡面 |
| 00:13:43,000 | 00:13:44,000 | 有這幾款的無人機 |
| 00:13:44,000 | 00:13:46,000 | 跟無人艇 |
| 00:13:46,000 | 00:13:48,000 | 我們就打算用特別預算 |
| 00:13:48,000 | 00:13:50,000 | 所以他們的需求你們早就知道了 |
| 00:13:50,000 | 00:13:51,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:13:51,000 | 00:13:53,000 | 所以這559億 |
| 00:13:53,000 | 00:13:54,000 | 如果追加預算沒有過 |
| 00:13:54,000 | 00:13:55,000 | 這個沒有過 |
| 00:13:55,000 | 00:13:56,000 | 它到底重不重要 |
| 00:13:56,000 | 00:13:57,000 | 到底需不需要 |
| 00:13:57,000 | 00:14:01,000 | 因為你們在特別條例裡面已經通過了 |
| 00:14:01,000 | 00:14:04,000 | 我們沒有通過特別條例 |
| 00:14:04,000 | 00:14:05,000 | 沒有啊 |
| 00:14:05,000 | 00:14:08,000 | 我們沒有通過我們的特別條例 |
| 00:14:08,000 | 00:14:11,000 | 立法院通過的2400億 |
| 00:14:11,000 | 00:14:14,000 | 甚至比你們通過的2100億還要高 |
| 00:14:14,000 | 00:14:16,000 | 我們就是追求立法院的決議 |
| 00:14:16,000 | 00:14:17,000 | 用年度預算 |
| 00:14:17,000 | 00:14:18,000 | 講完 |
| 00:14:18,000 | 00:14:21,000 | 它的差別只在於放在年度預算或特別預算 |
| 00:14:21,000 | 00:14:23,000 | 可是它已經通過了2400億 |
| 00:14:23,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 再加上明年116年以後的年度 |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:28,000 | 它每年有400億 |
| 00:14:28,000 | 00:14:30,000 | 你現在又追加預算裡面 |
| 00:14:30,000 | 00:14:32,000 | 把這三行等於一樣的東西 |
| 00:14:32,000 | 00:14:35,000 | 你在追加預算又放了559億 |
| 00:14:35,000 | 00:14:36,000 | 如果這個這麼重要 |
| 00:14:36,000 | 00:14:38,000 | 你在2100億以內 |
| 00:14:38,000 | 00:14:39,000 | 那時候就會放了 |
| 00:14:39,000 | 00:14:41,000 | 我們現在沒有時間跟你 |
| 00:14:41,000 | 00:14:43,000 | 跟委員我們先第一進一下 |
| 00:14:43,000 | 00:14:47,000 | 追加預算四年度預算 |
| 00:14:47,000 | 00:14:49,000 | 我們因為它的急迫性 |
| 00:14:49,000 | 00:14:51,000 | 因此我們用追加預算的方式 |
| 00:14:51,000 | 00:14:52,000 | 遵循大院的指示 |
| 00:14:52,000 | 00:14:53,000 | 現在10月份 |
| 00:14:53,000 | 00:14:54,000 | 部長明告訴我 |
| 00:14:54,000 | 00:14:56,000 | 現在10月份 |
| 00:14:56,000 | 00:14:57,000 | 已經10月了 |
| 00:14:57,000 | 00:14:59,000 | 追加預算如果通過以後 |
| 00:14:59,000 | 00:15:00,000 | 你再來買這三行 |
| 00:15:00,000 | 00:15:02,000 | 你說有急迫性 |
| 00:15:02,000 | 00:15:03,000 | 如果它那麼急迫 |
| 00:15:03,000 | 00:15:07,000 | 你之前放在特別條例裡面 |
| 00:15:07,000 | 00:15:09,000 | 2100億就應該要放了 |
| 00:15:09,000 | 00:15:10,000 | 這是第一點 |
| 00:15:10,000 | 00:15:12,000 | 第二點如果它那麼急迫 |
| 00:15:12,000 | 00:15:14,000 | 你現在都已經接近年底 |
| 00:15:14,000 | 00:15:16,000 | 你即時完成採購 |
| 00:15:16,000 | 00:15:18,000 | 廠商也不可能1月1號就交給你 |
| 00:15:18,000 | 00:15:21,000 | 所以不要拿這樣子的一個說詞 |
| 00:15:21,000 | 00:15:23,000 | 來把所有的預算 |
| 00:15:23,000 | 00:15:26,000 | 你全部都搞亂了 |
| 00:15:26,000 | 00:15:28,000 | 你有特別的預算 |
| 00:15:28,000 | 00:15:30,000 | 你有我們的年度預算 |
| 00:15:30,000 | 00:15:32,000 | 另外還有一筆 |
| 00:15:32,000 | 00:15:35,000 | 現在的追加預算都已經10月了 |
| 00:15:35,000 | 00:15:37,000 | 你什麼時候要執行 |
| 00:15:37,000 | 00:15:38,000 | 你為什麼追加預算 |
| 00:15:38,000 | 00:15:39,000 | 是這個時候送出來 |
| 00:15:39,000 | 00:15:41,000 | 好我們現在沒有很多的時間 |
| 00:15:41,000 | 00:15:44,000 | 116年度的年度預算 |
| 00:15:44,000 | 00:15:46,000 | 不及編列放進去這一個 |
| 00:15:46,000 | 00:15:47,000 | 不及編列 |
| 00:15:47,000 | 00:15:50,000 | 因為當時特別條例前所為 |
| 00:15:50,000 | 00:15:51,000 | 你出來 |
| 00:15:51,000 | 00:15:52,000 | 特別條例出來 |
| 00:15:52,000 | 00:15:53,000 | 部長聽我講完 |
| 00:15:53,000 | 00:15:56,000 | 你在1.25兆已經有放進這個 |
| 00:15:56,000 | 00:15:58,000 | 結果你那時候沒有通過 |
| 00:15:58,000 | 00:16:02,000 | 你在今年的明年的年度預算裡面 |
| 00:16:02,000 | 00:16:03,000 | 你不及放進去 |
| 00:16:03,000 | 00:16:05,000 | 所以可見你這麼不重要 |
| 00:16:05,000 | 00:16:07,000 | 你現在最重要的 |
| 00:16:07,000 | 00:16:09,000 | 其實只是想要把錢存出來 |
| 00:16:09,000 | 00:16:10,000 | 不是委員2100億 |
| 00:16:10,000 | 00:16:12,000 | 國防自主無人載具當中 |
| 00:16:12,000 | 00:16:13,000 | 就是編列這些 |
| 00:16:13,000 | 00:16:16,000 | 但是大院並沒有通過那個特別條例 |
| 00:16:16,000 | 00:16:17,000 | 無人載具的部分 |
| 00:16:17,000 | 00:16:18,000 | 我們在委員會 |
| 00:16:18,000 | 00:16:20,000 | 在審查預算的時候 |
| 00:16:20,000 | 00:16:22,000 | 還會再補一部的 |
| 00:16:22,000 | 00:16:24,000 | 國防自主無人載具的設備條例 |
| 00:16:24,000 | 00:16:26,000 | 你們通過了一個條例 |
| 00:16:26,000 | 00:16:27,000 | 那不叫特別條例 |
| 00:16:27,000 | 00:16:28,000 | 所以我們沒有辦法 |
| 00:16:28,000 | 00:16:30,000 | 依序來編特別預算 |
| 00:16:30,000 | 00:16:32,000 | 因此要編年度預算 |
| 00:16:32,000 | 00:16:34,000 | 那為了明年來不及 |
| 00:16:34,000 | 00:16:36,000 | 我們就編今年的最佳預算 |
| 00:16:36,000 | 00:16:37,000 | 我們剛剛已經說過 |
| 00:16:37,000 | 00:16:38,000 | 他們來不及的問題 |
| 00:16:38,000 | 00:16:42,000 | 現在我們在講到時候審查預算的時候 |
| 00:16:42,000 | 00:16:43,000 | 我們會一一的討論 |
| 00:16:43,000 | 00:16:45,000 | 那你花了這麼多的錢 |
| 00:16:45,000 | 00:16:47,000 | 到底買了什麼樣的東西 |
| 00:16:47,000 | 00:16:49,000 | 而且一次要到位 |
| 00:16:49,000 | 00:16:51,000 | 這個到時候可能還是必須要說清楚 |
| 00:16:51,000 | 00:16:54,000 | 因為在接下來我舉幾個例子 |
| 00:16:54,000 | 00:16:57,000 | 就針對我們在預算部分 |
| 00:16:57,000 | 00:16:59,000 | 他所編列的一些狀況 |
| 00:16:59,000 | 00:17:01,000 | 我們在最佳預算裡面 |
| 00:17:01,000 | 00:17:03,000 | 除了剛剛我說的那三型 |
| 00:17:03,000 | 00:17:05,000 | 無人載具以外 |
| 00:17:05,000 | 00:17:08,000 | 另外還有一個機動阻絕器材 |
| 00:17:08,000 | 00:17:09,000 | 這個部分 |
| 00:17:09,000 | 00:17:13,000 | 我們可能有在軍事上面的需求 |
| 00:17:13,000 | 00:17:15,000 | 可是我們要看的是 |
| 00:17:15,000 | 00:17:19,000 | 這個部分同樣叫做機動阻絕器材 |
| 00:17:19,000 | 00:17:26,000 | 我們在最佳預算的時候編了22億9264萬 |
| 00:17:26,000 | 00:17:28,000 | 您說機動阻絕器材 |
| 00:17:28,000 | 00:17:33,000 | 我們在115年的最佳預算是編了43萬8千元 |
| 00:17:33,000 | 00:17:35,000 | 那就更可笑了 |
| 00:17:35,000 | 00:17:38,000 | 你總經費22億 |
| 00:17:38,000 | 00:17:42,000 | 機動阻絕器材的總經費沒有到22億 |
| 00:17:42,000 | 00:17:45,000 | 有你自己看一下你們編的預算 |
| 00:17:45,000 | 00:17:52,000 | 最佳預算清清楚楚的表格寫了22億9千多萬 |
| 00:17:52,000 | 00:17:54,000 | 今年第一年45萬 |
| 00:17:54,000 | 00:17:57,000 | 這個才是他詭譎的地方 |
| 00:17:57,000 | 00:18:02,000 | 你全案量22億9等於23億 |
| 00:18:02,000 | 00:18:06,000 | 可是你今年第一年你才用45億 |
| 00:18:06,000 | 00:18:08,000 | 等於你頭過心就過 |
| 00:18:08,000 | 00:18:10,000 | 45億一旦過了 |
| 00:18:10,000 | 00:18:12,000 | 然後照表過了以後就 |
| 00:18:12,000 | 00:18:15,000 | 跟委員報告說連日預算都是分開來審 |
| 00:18:15,000 | 00:18:18,000 | 最佳預算跟年度預算都是每年 |
| 00:18:18,000 | 00:18:20,000 | 然後也是分開來審 |
| 00:18:20,000 | 00:18:22,000 | 部長他是全案 |
| 00:18:22,000 | 00:18:23,000 | 你已經當了那麼多年的部長 |
| 00:18:23,000 | 00:18:24,000 | 我相信你很清楚 |
| 00:18:24,000 | 00:18:28,000 | 我現在講的我們先來探討的這個部分是說 |
| 00:18:28,000 | 00:18:32,000 | 你在預算編列上面是不是有浮編超編 |
| 00:18:32,000 | 00:18:34,000 | 剛剛這個機動阻絕器材 |
| 00:18:34,000 | 00:18:38,000 | 我們在最佳預算編了23億 |
| 00:18:38,000 | 00:18:43,000 | 要買356套 |
| 00:18:43,000 | 00:18:47,000 | 美軍一樣他們也有機動阻絕器材 |
| 00:18:47,000 | 00:18:52,000 | 他們是國防後勤局DLA公開的售價 |
| 00:18:52,000 | 00:18:57,000 | 他們一套大概是台幣180萬左右 |
| 00:18:57,000 | 00:19:04,000 | 我們編列的預算一套大概要644萬 |
| 00:19:04,000 | 00:19:09,000 | 我們等於是美軍的幾乎四倍的價格 |
| 00:19:09,000 | 00:19:12,000 | 也就是我們編了23億的金額 |
| 00:19:12,000 | 00:19:18,000 | 美軍只要不到5億元就可以買到這樣子的一個套數主數 |
| 00:19:18,000 | 00:19:20,000 | 甚至美國這是後勤局 |
| 00:19:20,000 | 00:19:24,000 | 他們自己均規的這樣子的一個成熟的產品 |
| 00:19:24,000 | 00:19:27,000 | 所以我們在講這個是第一個例子 |
| 00:19:27,000 | 00:19:28,000 | 就是我們 |
| 00:19:28,000 | 00:19:31,000 | 跟委員報告您講的那個20幾億的這個金額 |
| 00:19:31,000 | 00:19:34,000 | 我印象當中我可能要回去確認一下 |
| 00:19:34,000 | 00:19:36,000 | 並不是全案有這麼多的金額 |
| 00:19:36,000 | 00:19:37,000 | 這是第一點 |
| 00:19:37,000 | 00:19:42,000 | 第二點我們115年最佳預算的編列是辦理先期準備 |
| 00:19:42,000 | 00:19:43,000 | 同樣的狀況 |
| 00:19:43,000 | 00:19:47,000 | 機動阻絕器材在我們116年的年度預算也有編列 |
| 00:19:47,000 | 00:19:50,000 | 相關編列的這個實際的情況下去 |
| 00:19:50,000 | 00:19:54,000 | 再查明這個相關的金額以後再跟委員報告 |
| 00:19:54,000 | 00:19:58,000 | 但是我也不要隨便用浮編爛編這個話來說明 |
| 00:19:58,000 | 00:20:00,000 | 那已經是浮編超編 |
| 00:20:00,000 | 00:20:02,000 | 為什麼舉這個例子 |
| 00:20:02,000 | 00:20:06,000 | 我們之前剛通過的那個特別預算 |
| 00:20:06,000 | 00:20:08,000 | 我們放在普發1萬塊 |
| 00:20:08,000 | 00:20:11,000 | 就前年的通過的那去年初吧 |
| 00:20:11,000 | 00:20:13,000 | 還是前年底 |
| 00:20:13,000 | 00:20:15,000 | 就是我們說戰備水 |
| 00:20:15,000 | 00:20:18,000 | 你從8塊變120塊一樣的意思 |
| 00:20:18,000 | 00:20:20,000 | 我們現在說你可以買 |
| 00:20:20,000 | 00:20:23,000 | 他如果是必要的你可以買 |
| 00:20:23,000 | 00:20:25,000 | 我現在已經把美軍 |
| 00:20:25,000 | 00:20:28,000 | 他的金額已經公開的告訴你了 |
| 00:20:28,000 | 00:20:31,000 | 美國這是後勤局他們公開的 |
| 00:20:32,000 | 00:20:34,000 | 他們採購的金額 |
| 00:20:34,000 | 00:20:36,000 | 他一套就是180萬左右 |
| 00:20:36,000 | 00:20:37,000 | 而且還是軍規的 |
| 00:20:37,000 | 00:20:40,000 | 我們現在一套644元 |
| 00:20:40,000 | 00:20:41,000 | 你可以分批買 |
| 00:20:41,000 | 00:20:42,000 | 那不重要 |
| 00:20:42,000 | 00:20:45,000 | 可是你第一年45萬的招標 |
| 00:20:45,000 | 00:20:46,000 | 下作業費 |
| 00:20:46,000 | 00:20:47,000 | 如果下去以後 |
| 00:20:47,000 | 00:20:49,000 | 後面就是22億 |
| 00:20:49,000 | 00:20:50,000 | 22億23億 |
| 00:20:50,000 | 00:20:52,000 | 我們現在要講的是這個 |
| 00:20:52,000 | 00:20:54,000 | 你在前端如果沒有掌控好 |
| 00:20:54,000 | 00:20:57,000 | 你後端比別人多出好幾倍 |
| 00:20:57,000 | 00:20:58,000 | 去買一樣的東西 |
| 00:20:58,000 | 00:21:00,000 | 而且他還不見得那麼好 |
| 00:21:00,000 | 00:21:01,000 | 這是第一個例子 |
| 00:21:01,000 | 00:21:04,000 | 第二個我們還有一個 |
| 00:21:04,000 | 00:21:08,000 | 在總預算裡面海軍新型救難艦 |
| 00:21:08,000 | 00:21:10,000 | 當年全案的計畫經費 |
| 00:21:10,000 | 00:21:13,000 | 一艘就是36.58億 |
| 00:21:14,000 | 00:21:16,000 | 當時國會已經追問說 |
| 00:21:16,000 | 00:21:18,000 | 為什麼要花那麼多的錢 |
| 00:21:18,000 | 00:21:21,000 | 因為你不能只造一艘大型的拖船 |
| 00:21:21,000 | 00:21:24,000 | 把真正的水下救援能力也應該做進去 |
| 00:21:24,000 | 00:21:26,000 | 因為那時候我們要發展潛艦 |
| 00:21:26,000 | 00:21:29,000 | 所以後來首艦也確實納入了 |
| 00:21:29,000 | 00:21:30,000 | 100公尺的潛水中 |
| 00:21:30,000 | 00:21:33,000 | 還有500公尺水下ROV |
| 00:21:33,000 | 00:21:36,000 | 這個價格都是可以比較的 |
| 00:21:36,000 | 00:21:41,000 | 美軍現在5000噸級的拖帶打撈救難艦 |
| 00:21:41,000 | 00:21:44,000 | 他公開造價大概新台幣20億 |
| 00:21:44,000 | 00:21:47,000 | 我們的3250噸 |
| 00:21:47,000 | 00:21:49,000 | 比美軍的5000噸還要小 |
| 00:21:49,000 | 00:21:52,000 | 可是我們全案是36.58億 |
| 00:21:52,000 | 00:21:55,000 | 這是首件我們已經完成了 |
| 00:21:55,000 | 00:21:57,000 | 可是我們在明年編的預算 |
| 00:21:57,000 | 00:22:00,000 | 一艘變成多少錢你們知道嗎 |
| 00:22:00,000 | 00:22:03,000 | 105.81億 |
| 00:22:03,000 | 00:22:08,000 | 要造兩艘變成211.62億 |
| 00:22:08,000 | 00:22:10,000 | 平均一艘 |
| 00:22:10,000 | 00:22:13,000 | 我們原來第一艘已經比美國的還要貴了 |
| 00:22:13,000 | 00:22:16,000 | 可是我們現在第二艘跟第三艘 |
| 00:22:16,000 | 00:22:23,000 | 我們平均造價比我們原來的高出2.89倍 |
| 00:22:23,000 | 00:22:26,000 | 每一艘多了69億 |
| 00:22:26,000 | 00:22:27,000 | 他到底增加什麼 |
| 00:22:27,000 | 00:22:30,000 | 我們現在為什麼要特別出來說 |
| 00:22:30,000 | 00:22:33,000 | 我們有浮邊的狀況操邊的狀況 |
| 00:22:33,000 | 00:22:36,000 | 就是因為你原來的船 |
| 00:22:36,000 | 00:22:38,000 | 三十幾億就已經比別人高 |
| 00:22:38,000 | 00:22:41,000 | 那你現在明年變到一艘變成100多億 |
| 00:22:41,000 | 00:22:43,000 | 這樣要怎麼說明 |
| 00:22:44,000 | 00:22:45,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:22:45,000 | 00:22:47,000 | 我想你現在提出來的資料 |
| 00:22:47,000 | 00:22:50,000 | 因為我手上沒有現成的資料可以回應 |
| 00:22:50,000 | 00:22:54,000 | 但是我們相關的建案的計畫你也都知道 |
| 00:22:54,000 | 00:22:57,000 | 我們從這個需求到這個細分的時候 |
| 00:22:57,000 | 00:23:01,000 | 我們都會做這個成本會做相關的一些分析 |
| 00:23:01,000 | 00:23:03,000 | 那我們出來之後 |
| 00:23:03,000 | 00:23:05,000 | 如果委員有疑議 |
| 00:23:05,000 | 00:23:08,000 | 我們會找時間跟委員做一個進一步的說明 |
| 00:23:08,000 | 00:23:11,000 | 但如果說現在委員在院會上面 |
| 00:23:11,000 | 00:23:14,000 | 那你提出來提出這樣的一個金額 |
| 00:23:14,000 | 00:23:17,000 | 我現在在現場上沒有辦法做核實 |
| 00:23:17,000 | 00:23:21,000 | 然後就一家人去指控說浮邊如何等等 |
| 00:23:21,000 | 00:23:26,000 | 我覺得這樣的質詢方式是不公平的 |
| 00:23:26,000 | 00:23:27,000 | 那個不是不公平 |
| 00:23:27,000 | 00:23:29,000 | 因為我們已經有查了 |
| 00:23:29,000 | 00:23:33,000 | 他當時是因為為什麼一直在增加後面的預算 |
| 00:23:33,000 | 00:23:38,000 | 他兩艘變成增加了3.5倍以上 |
| 00:23:38,000 | 00:23:39,000 | 3.5倍 |
| 00:23:39,000 | 00:23:41,000 | 你就造船而已 |
| 00:23:41,000 | 00:23:43,000 | 我們今天就說他是可以比較的 |
| 00:23:43,000 | 00:23:45,000 | 如果你做得再好 |
| 00:23:45,000 | 00:23:47,000 | 你甚至都可以比美軍的還要好 |
| 00:23:47,000 | 00:23:49,000 | 那你說你增加那麼多 |
| 00:23:49,000 | 00:23:50,000 | 委員是有什麼意思 |
| 00:23:50,000 | 00:23:51,000 | 我們增加的理由 |
| 00:23:51,000 | 00:23:52,000 | 院長你先聽我講完 |
| 00:23:52,000 | 00:23:55,000 | 我們當時增加這麼多的預算 |
| 00:23:55,000 | 00:23:57,000 | 只有一個很重要的理由 |
| 00:23:57,000 | 00:23:59,000 | 沒有人來標 |
| 00:23:59,000 | 00:24:01,000 | 所以這個部分部長如果覺得說 |
| 00:24:01,000 | 00:24:03,000 | 你還有要說明的機會 |
| 00:24:03,000 | 00:24:04,000 | 你到時候可以說 |
| 00:24:04,000 | 00:24:06,000 | 因為這是我們看到的預算 |
| 00:24:06,000 | 00:24:08,000 | 他增加幅度非常高 |
| 00:24:08,000 | 00:24:10,000 | 然後我們覺得不合理的部分 |
| 00:24:10,000 | 00:24:12,000 | 所以我今天特別提出來 |
| 00:24:12,000 | 00:24:14,000 | 所以我們就整體的預算來看 |
| 00:24:14,000 | 00:24:16,000 | 精確數字再請部長跟委員來做 |
| 00:24:16,000 | 00:24:19,000 | 我想到時候委員會審查 |
| 00:24:19,000 | 00:24:22,000 | 委員都有很多的機會 |
| 00:24:22,000 | 00:24:24,000 | 我們一定會跟委員做一個說明 |
| 00:24:24,000 | 00:24:26,000 | 一方面也說明這個新照件 |
| 00:24:26,000 | 00:24:28,000 | 他本身內容配備 |
| 00:24:28,000 | 00:24:31,000 | 維護條件等等或許容許有不同 |
| 00:24:31,000 | 00:24:33,000 | 這個再請部長能夠詳細說明 |
| 00:24:33,000 | 00:24:35,000 | 這個部分你們後續可以說明 |
| 00:24:35,000 | 00:24:37,000 | 因為我是先提出來 |
| 00:24:37,000 | 00:24:41,000 | 我們還要討論的主要是 |
| 00:24:41,000 | 00:24:43,000 | 因為今天是總預算 |
| 00:24:43,000 | 00:24:45,000 | 可是國防預算為什麼特別提出來 |
| 00:24:45,000 | 00:24:48,000 | 我只是簡單舉兩個例子 |
| 00:24:48,000 | 00:24:50,000 | 他後面還有非常的多 |
| 00:24:50,000 | 00:24:52,000 | 在委員會我們會持續的討論 |
| 00:24:52,000 | 00:24:54,000 | 因為國防預算已經占了 |
| 00:24:54,000 | 00:24:56,000 | 我們所有整體總預算 |
| 00:24:56,000 | 00:24:58,000 | 你只要花三塊四塊 |
| 00:24:58,000 | 00:25:00,000 | 就一塊是花在國防上面 |
| 00:25:00,000 | 00:25:02,000 | 所以我們希望他每一筆預算 |
| 00:25:02,000 | 00:25:04,000 | 其實都可以精準到位 |
| 00:25:04,000 | 00:25:06,000 | 真的可以增加我們的戰力 |
| 00:25:06,000 | 00:25:08,000 | 他不會被浪費掉 |
| 00:25:08,000 | 00:25:10,000 | 這是我們今天特別提出來 |
| 00:25:10,000 | 00:25:11,000 | 所以不只國防 |
| 00:25:11,000 | 00:25:15,000 | 我們現在提到剛剛我們一開始講的 |
| 00:25:15,000 | 00:25:17,000 | 少子化的預算 |
| 00:25:17,000 | 00:25:20,000 | 我們在預算如果單價變貴 |
| 00:25:20,000 | 00:25:22,000 | 其實更值得警惕的是 |
| 00:25:22,000 | 00:25:24,000 | 我們的錢每年增加 |
| 00:25:24,000 | 00:25:26,000 | 可是問題一直在惡化 |
| 00:25:26,000 | 00:25:28,000 | 剛剛院長提到的本席同意 |
| 00:25:28,000 | 00:25:30,000 | 就是在全球很多國家 |
| 00:25:30,000 | 00:25:32,000 | 其實都面臨少子化的問題 |
| 00:25:32,000 | 00:25:35,000 | 這個真的是一個重大的國安問題 |
| 00:25:35,000 | 00:25:37,000 | 大家也都在尋求解決的方案 |
| 00:25:37,000 | 00:25:40,000 | 可是我們自己也有自己解決的方案 |
| 00:25:40,000 | 00:25:41,000 | 因為我們有不同的國情 |
| 00:25:41,000 | 00:25:43,000 | 我們不同的整體的環境 |
| 00:25:43,000 | 00:25:45,000 | 那我們錢每年增加 |
| 00:25:45,000 | 00:25:47,000 | 116年度育兒相關津貼 |
| 00:25:47,000 | 00:25:50,000 | 已經編到2101億 |
| 00:25:50,000 | 00:25:53,000 | 114年度我們總生育率 |
| 00:25:53,000 | 00:25:55,000 | 只有0.695 |
| 00:25:55,000 | 00:25:57,000 | 所以立法院預算中心 |
| 00:25:57,000 | 00:25:59,000 | 他的評估也指出 |
| 00:25:59,000 | 00:26:01,000 | 就是相關的這個預算支出 |
| 00:26:01,000 | 00:26:04,000 | 其實沒有辦法提升我們的生育率 |
| 00:26:04,000 | 00:26:06,000 | 其實他效果是有限的 |
| 00:26:06,000 | 00:26:07,000 | 我們要探討的是 |
| 00:26:07,000 | 00:26:10,000 | 我們這樣編列相關的2千多億的預算 |
| 00:26:10,000 | 00:26:14,000 | 我們是想要買什麼樣的政策成果 |
| 00:26:14,000 | 00:26:16,000 | 因為不是說我們錢越編越高 |
| 00:26:16,000 | 00:26:18,000 | 然後補助越來越多就好了 |
| 00:26:18,000 | 00:26:20,000 | 就像我們如果人生病了 |
| 00:26:20,000 | 00:26:23,000 | 我們每吃了多年的藥 |
| 00:26:23,000 | 00:26:26,000 | 然後狀況病狀還在惡化當中 |
| 00:26:26,000 | 00:26:28,000 | 醫生不能告訴我們說 |
| 00:26:28,000 | 00:26:30,000 | 你劑量再增加就好 |
| 00:26:30,000 | 00:26:32,000 | 我們要的是他真的 |
| 00:26:32,000 | 00:26:35,000 | 是不是可以去解決我們的病症 |
| 00:26:35,000 | 00:26:36,000 | 少子化也是 |
| 00:26:36,000 | 00:26:38,000 | 他已經形成國安的問題 |
| 00:26:38,000 | 00:26:41,000 | 因為少子化變成我們的警察消防 |
| 00:26:41,000 | 00:26:42,000 | 我們的老師 |
| 00:26:42,000 | 00:26:43,000 | 我們的醫護人員 |
| 00:26:43,000 | 00:26:44,000 | 我們的勞工 |
| 00:26:44,000 | 00:26:45,000 | 我們的農民 |
| 00:26:45,000 | 00:26:49,000 | 我們的就是年輕化的這一些部分 |
| 00:26:49,000 | 00:26:52,000 | 還有包括我們的軍人什麼都缺 |
| 00:26:52,000 | 00:26:55,000 | 其實他已經造成我們很大的國安的疑慮 |
| 00:26:55,000 | 00:26:57,000 | 所以我們才希望說 |
| 00:26:57,000 | 00:26:59,000 | 我們編列預算我們可以支持 |
| 00:26:59,000 | 00:27:02,000 | 我們也可以做更多的一些相關的補助 |
| 00:27:02,000 | 00:27:04,000 | 可是他必須要達到效果 |
| 00:27:04,000 | 00:27:09,000 | 如果我們這兩千一百多億預算編列下去 |
| 00:27:09,000 | 00:27:12,000 | 我們明年很具體的一個問題 |
| 00:27:12,000 | 00:27:14,000 | 我們希望生育率可以達到多少 |
| 00:27:14,000 | 00:27:16,000 | 因為總是要有一個標準 |
| 00:27:16,000 | 00:27:19,000 | 你之前是零點六六八多 |
| 00:27:19,000 | 00:27:21,000 | 那是不是明年可以到零點七 |
| 00:27:21,000 | 00:27:23,000 | 零點七五還是到零點八 |
| 00:27:23,000 | 00:27:25,000 | 這個跟委員報告 |
| 00:27:25,000 | 00:27:27,000 | 所以我們也謝謝委員剛剛一直提到 |
| 00:27:27,000 | 00:27:28,000 | 國防也好 |
| 00:27:28,000 | 00:27:29,000 | 這個少子化也好 |
| 00:27:29,000 | 00:27:31,000 | 我們需要的委員都會支持 |
| 00:27:31,000 | 00:27:33,000 | 我也希望爭取委員的支持 |
| 00:27:33,000 | 00:27:35,000 | 那我們在推出人口對策新戰略之後 |
| 00:27:35,000 | 00:27:37,000 | 提出了安心休養 |
| 00:27:37,000 | 00:27:39,000 | 加碼教育強化托育 |
| 00:27:39,000 | 00:27:42,000 | 以及友善職場跟劇組減壓 |
| 00:27:42,000 | 00:27:45,000 | 那我最近參加了好幾場的聯合婚禮 |
| 00:27:45,000 | 00:27:47,000 | 我跟你們講 |
| 00:27:47,000 | 00:27:48,000 | 我跟你們講 |
| 00:27:48,000 | 00:27:49,000 | 簽了好幾場聯合婚禮 |
| 00:27:49,000 | 00:27:51,000 | 對數都增加了 |
| 00:27:51,000 | 00:27:52,000 | 但是一年內 |
| 00:27:52,000 | 00:27:54,000 | 我們都沒有辦法看到成績 |
| 00:27:54,000 | 00:27:56,000 | 一定要一年以後 |
| 00:27:56,000 | 00:27:57,000 | 甚至兩年以後 |
| 00:27:57,000 | 00:27:58,000 | 才這個成績才會出現 |
| 00:27:58,000 | 00:28:00,000 | 那這一年我們盡量鼓勵 |
| 00:28:00,000 | 00:28:03,000 | 這個社會結婚的氛圍能夠多一點 |
| 00:28:03,000 | 00:28:06,000 | 生小孩的大家的勇氣能夠大一點 |
| 00:28:06,000 | 00:28:08,000 | 那我們來支持這樣的育兒 |
| 00:28:08,000 | 00:28:10,000 | 今天相關的補助 |
| 00:28:10,000 | 00:28:12,000 | 你簡單的說一下 |
| 00:28:12,000 | 00:28:14,000 | 明年希望達到的育兒 |
| 00:28:14,000 | 00:28:16,000 | 就是我們的生兒 |
| 00:28:16,000 | 00:28:18,000 | 就是我們的出生率 |
| 00:28:18,000 | 00:28:19,000 | 可以達到多少 |
| 00:28:19,000 | 00:28:20,000 | 你是不是可以簡單的 |
| 00:28:20,000 | 00:28:21,000 | 可以有一個數據 |
| 00:28:21,000 | 00:28:23,000 | 一年內是不可能增加太多的 |
| 00:28:23,000 | 00:28:26,000 | 因為我們是推的政策推出來 |
| 00:28:26,000 | 00:28:27,000 | 但是一年內會鼓勵 |
| 00:28:27,000 | 00:28:30,000 | 原來不想生的趕快生 |
| 00:28:30,000 | 00:28:32,000 | 所以我們在訂這個目標的時候 |
| 00:28:32,000 | 00:28:34,000 | 我希望先止住 |
| 00:28:34,000 | 00:28:36,000 | 不要再往下掉 |
| 00:28:36,000 | 00:28:38,000 | 第一年的目標先止住 |
| 00:28:38,000 | 00:28:40,000 | 現在剩下的不要往下掉 |
| 00:28:40,000 | 00:28:42,000 | 以後再逐年慢慢慢慢的回升 |
| 00:28:42,000 | 00:28:45,000 | 所以如果說先止住 |
| 00:28:45,000 | 00:28:47,000 | 今年如果沒有辦法止住呢 |
| 00:28:47,000 | 00:28:49,000 | 那我們就來檢討 |
| 00:28:49,000 | 00:28:50,000 | 這個政策哪裡還不足 |
| 00:28:50,000 | 00:28:52,000 | 或者執行上是不是有缺漏 |
| 00:28:52,000 | 00:28:54,000 | 因為我們旁邊的韓國 |
| 00:28:54,000 | 00:28:56,000 | 其實我們之前跟韓國 |
| 00:28:56,000 | 00:28:58,000 | 大概都是在末端的一二名 |
| 00:28:58,000 | 00:29:00,000 | 可是現在我們看到 |
| 00:29:00,000 | 00:29:02,000 | 其實他有一些已經有具體的成效了 |
| 00:29:02,000 | 00:29:04,000 | 如果說我們相關的這些 |
| 00:29:04,000 | 00:29:06,000 | 可以去取經 |
| 00:29:06,000 | 00:29:08,000 | 我覺得對我們可能還是有好多的 |
| 00:29:08,000 | 00:29:09,000 | 我們也有接近 |
| 00:29:09,000 | 00:29:11,000 | 包括韓國鄰近國家的經驗 |
| 00:29:11,000 | 00:29:13,000 | 我們都有拿來參考 |
| 00:29:13,000 | 00:29:15,000 | 才推出這個人口對策新戰略 |
| 00:29:15,000 | 00:29:16,000 | 家庭支持 |
| 00:29:16,000 | 00:29:18,000 | 因為其實可能還有很多 |
| 00:29:18,000 | 00:29:20,000 | 包括我們的公共建設 |
| 00:29:20,000 | 00:29:22,000 | 因為我們公共建設也增加 |
| 00:29:22,000 | 00:29:24,000 | 明年也增加了五百多億 |
| 00:29:24,000 | 00:29:26,000 | 應該是有五百多億的預算吧 |
| 00:29:26,000 | 00:29:28,000 | 然後可是我們在 |
| 00:29:28,000 | 00:29:34,000 | 也發現我們有很多的閒置空間 |
| 00:29:34,000 | 00:29:37,000 | 有的人你甚至把閒置空間花錢 |
| 00:29:37,000 | 00:29:39,000 | 去把它活化 |
| 00:29:39,000 | 00:29:41,000 | 活化以後他又閒置了 |
| 00:29:41,000 | 00:29:43,000 | 所以這個也是一個很重要的問題 |
| 00:29:43,000 | 00:29:45,000 | 今天我們探討這些我們總預算裡面 |
| 00:29:45,000 | 00:29:47,000 | 增加這麼高的預算 |
| 00:29:47,000 | 00:29:51,000 | 有增加這麼多的將近四兆 |
| 00:29:51,000 | 00:29:56,000 | 我們希望這個幾乎翻倍的這個總預算 |
| 00:29:56,000 | 00:29:59,000 | 我們希望台灣其實經濟也變大 |
| 00:29:59,000 | 00:30:01,000 | 政府的責任也變多 |
| 00:30:01,000 | 00:30:03,000 | 預算增加本來就有合理的部分 |
| 00:30:03,000 | 00:30:07,000 | 可是我們只是要替人民多補後半句 |
| 00:30:07,000 | 00:30:10,000 | 就是國力不能只看政府花多少錢 |
| 00:30:10,000 | 00:30:12,000 | 包括我們的戰力 |
| 00:30:12,000 | 00:30:14,000 | 因為還要看同樣的問題 |
| 00:30:14,000 | 00:30:17,000 | 是不是需要越來越少的錢才能解決 |
| 00:30:17,000 | 00:30:19,000 | 我們剛剛講的這些問題 |
| 00:30:19,000 | 00:30:23,000 | 其實都是非常迫切需要去改善 |
| 00:30:23,000 | 00:30:25,000 | 或者需要去調整 |
| 00:30:25,000 | 00:30:28,000 | 或者急需我們的戰力的去重新 |
| 00:30:28,000 | 00:30:30,000 | 戰力的部分 |
| 00:30:30,000 | 00:30:31,000 | 我們在公建計畫 |
| 00:30:31,000 | 00:30:33,000 | 治水中小圍的補助 |
| 00:30:33,000 | 00:30:35,000 | 科技發展國防經費社福經費 |
| 00:30:35,000 | 00:30:37,000 | 勞保健保的補助 |
| 00:30:37,000 | 00:30:39,000 | 八大社福的補貼都 |
| 00:30:44,000 | 00:30:46,000 | 好 謝謝 |