iVOD / 171181
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陳昭姿 @ 第11屆第6會期第2次會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 有請卓院長 |
| 00:00:02,000 | 00:00:04,000 | 麻煩請卓院長備選 |
| 00:00:14,000 | 00:00:15,000 | 陳偉好 |
| 00:00:15,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 好 院長早 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:18,000 | 院長 我想先請教你喔 |
| 00:00:18,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 您希望台灣的歷史 |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:22,000 | 未來如何評價您 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 您是一位大人物 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:27,000 | 每一位大人物大概都會有他的歷史評價 |
| 00:00:27,000 | 00:00:29,000 | 有時候是在有生之年 |
| 00:00:29,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 有時候是在這個概觀論定 |
| 00:00:31,000 | 00:00:33,000 | 但也有時候是隔了好多代 |
| 00:00:33,000 | 00:00:35,000 | 但是我也理解就是說 |
| 00:00:35,000 | 00:00:37,000 | 通常歷史評價 |
| 00:00:37,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 不太容易掌握在自己的手上 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:43,000 | 那我想報告院長 |
| 00:00:43,000 | 00:00:45,000 | 這個我看過古往今來 |
| 00:00:45,000 | 00:00:47,000 | 很多名人的這個所謂的 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:49,000 | 慕志明 |
| 00:00:49,000 | 00:00:51,000 | 他們就是外國人放在慕杯上的慕志明 |
| 00:00:51,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 我也為自己寫下了慕志明 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 那其實慕志明 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 台灣人沒有做這個習慣 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 但是他是個概念 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 也就是說你可不可以用短短幾個字 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 或一兩句話 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 來做一個人一生的總評 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:11,000 | 所以我想請教院長 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 如果請您親自執筆 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 您會為自己寫下什麼樣的一生總評 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 一兩句話好嗎 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 歷史的評價應該交給歷史 |
| 00:01:21,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 我自己應該沒有那個能力 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 為自己做評價 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:27,000 | 但是我跟全國的公眾 |
| 00:01:27,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 我跟全國的公務人員一樣 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 依法來從事公務的所有國家的公務人員 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 無論是軍公教 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 無論是中央地方 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 都應該在謹守奮進 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 奉公守法 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 恪遵憲法 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:45,000 | 遵照依法行政的原則來做我 |
| 00:01:45,000 | 00:01:49,000 | 從議員到立委到行政政務人員 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 所有的生物 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 一兩句話就可以一個評價 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 那院長就是覺得自己 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 有恪遵法規來執行您的職務 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 院長這個川習會剛結束 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 我今天不談政治效應 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 但是我想就這個 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 美國跟中國之間的區別 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 我想請教你 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:11,000 | 麻煩您很簡短的回答就可以 |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 請問美國跟中國 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 哪一個是民主國家 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 哪一個是民主國家 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 這個在天平 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 在光譜的兩端太懸殊了 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 當然是美國是一個民主的國家 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:26,000 | 中國一點邊都沉不上 |
| 00:02:26,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 那你認為美國和中國 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 哪一個對自由跟人權的保障 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 是比較完整的 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 當然美國的尊重民主價值 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 跟人權價值的普世價值 |
| 00:02:37,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 跟世界有盟國家是比較一致的 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 中國是屬於集權統治的黨國時代 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 院長簡單回答就可以謝謝你 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 那你認為美國和中國 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 哪一個對於人民的需求 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 比較會去努力 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 去達成他們的需求 |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 美國從人民的需求面 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 滿足人民的需求 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 中國是從統治面 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 來壓迫人民接受統治的手法 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 那我就請教院長 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 美國跟中國哪個國家 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 已經把代理孕母制度化了 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 哪一個國家 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 哪一個國家 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 代孕 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 對把代孕合法化了法治化了 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:13,000 | 法治化的背後 |
| 00:03:13,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 要看它整個社會的風氣 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 以及整個社會的認知 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 是不是在合於人權的規定底下 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:23,000 | 就是美國啊 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 美國一個是40年 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 一個是一位的進職 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 院長就是這麼清楚 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 答案你OK嗎 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 這個答案就清楚 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 那院長我曾經非常的支持民進黨 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:35,000 | 因為早期的民進黨 |
| 00:03:35,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 它不但為人民爭取民主 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 那也提倡進步價值 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 可是我覺得這些年還是退步了 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 那這個2002年賴清德立委 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 他提出了台灣第一部的代孕法案 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 但是20幾年後賴立委已經成為賴總統了 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 可是現在的民進黨立委 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 卻用力在反對代孕 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 院長有一些人稱民進黨是綠共 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 當然我個人沒有百分之百認同這件事情 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 可是我有發現 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 在代孕這個議題上 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 民進黨立委的主流論述 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 跟中國共產黨如出一策 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 我想請院長看一下這個投影片 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 中共人大代表蔣勝南說 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 代孕是把女性器官視為加工廠 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 是對女性的物化跟歧視 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 不是任何需求都需要去被滿足的 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 代孕是一種削弱的 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 削弱是階級 |
| 00:04:31,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 沈柏楊甚至說代孕的需求不會消失 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 人類對賭博的需求也不會消失 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 但不代表我們要建立制度來應對 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 應該選擇成本較小的方式來進行 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 天哪連主張任何形式的交流 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 都是統戰的沈柏楊 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 他的論述居然跟中共一模一樣 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 院長你不覺得諷刺嗎 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 民進黨口口聲聲說台美友好 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 卻把美國跟英國施行40年的代孕制度 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 完全妖魔化了 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 跟中國共產黨做法一樣 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 無視人民的需求一味的禁止 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 院長我們現在繼續往下看 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 請院長看看法治化跟地下化的對比 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 左邊是最近轟動全球的新聞 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 發生在有完善代孕制度的美國 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:29,000 | Lady Gaga她因為飽受病痛之苦 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 而選擇了代孕 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 全球媒體都說是喜迎愛女 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 都說是一樁喜事喜迎愛女 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 院長你認識Lady Gaga吧 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 你知道吧 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 聽過歌 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:43,000 | Lady Gaga長期以來 |
| 00:05:43,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 她是對女性權益跟LGBTQ這個族群發聲 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 她甚至坦然揭露她自己曾經被性侵被霸凌 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 她的作品很多都是反思 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 在父權體制下女性是如何被剝削被凝視被壓迫 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 那麼我想請問院長 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 你覺得Lady Gaga她尋求代孕 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:11,000 | 你會覺得她是在壓迫剝削女性嗎 |
| 00:06:11,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 請你簡單回答你覺得呢 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 每個人對自己以及對群體的價值觀念判斷不一樣 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 院長我是請教你我Lady Gaga |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 我尊重她 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 那你覺得她是在剝削女性嗎 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 我也尊重她在美國社會當中 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 在法治底勢下所擁有的自己的選擇權 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 院長請你在右邊這張圖表 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 中國政府是嚴格禁止代孕的 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 但結果中國成為全世界地下化代孕工廠 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 最大的地下化代孕工廠 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 沒有任何監督跟管理 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 那代表什麼 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 孕母跟小孩都得不到保障 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 請問院長你要台灣也變成這個樣子嗎 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 台灣跟中國完全不一樣就在這裡 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 我們禁止一樣就不會讓它地下猖狂 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 院長小心 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 您接下來看我的內容 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 我的單日後已經成真了 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 今年6月士林地院判決 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 白菜寶寶協會涉嫌違法跨國中間代孕 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 還有詐欺取材 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 那受害者已經組成自救會 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 已經足以組成自救會來提告 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 那目前還有一些孩子的戶籍等問題 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 還有非常重要的 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 上個禮拜台中地檢署 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 破獲一起跨國代孕 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 短短一年就有25名非法代孕 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 在台灣出生的孩子 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 這些都是台灣的小孩 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 他們的爸爸都是台灣人 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 但是孩子沒有法律保障 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 那也會面臨侵權身份的問題 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 那代孕媽媽更是沒有保障 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 院長發生在台灣的 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:51,000 | 台中的一家醫院 |
| 00:07:51,000 | 00:07:53,000 | 他去生出這個孩子 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 沒有法治化才最可能造成商品化跟剝削的主要原因 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 您同意我這個論調嗎 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 我應該我們這樣講 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 對一個無法生育的人 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 我們用各種方式來協助他是應該的 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:09,000 | 但是這個方式 |
| 00:08:09,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 在這個社會上的價值觀 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 要普遍被接受 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 而且我們應該有法可管 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 有社會的風氣社會的習慣 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 可以來規範一定的行為 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 那我們也相信所有進步的女性 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:23,000 | 所有進步的女性 |
| 00:08:23,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 在推動平權家運動的時候 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 也不見得完全是都同意這樣的行為 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 但是我們希望取得更大的共識 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:33,000 | 達到平衡點 |
| 00:08:33,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 一樓的協助者可能您都認識了 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 我們現在反觀中共 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 這個國家衛生委員10年前就說要嚴格的打擊待遇 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 結果呢越打越猖獗 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 那台灣就是剛剛我提到的地檢署破獲這個大案 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 但是我要告訴院長 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 我知道的案例 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 其實都沒有包括在裡面 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:57,000 | 那當國家不願法治化管理的時候 |
| 00:08:57,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 我已經示範給你看 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:00,000 | 你意外的禁止 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 那人民有需求結果呢 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 地下化 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 讓很多人都冒著很大的風險 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 院長這是你要的結果嗎 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 台灣都發生了 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 我們正也全面收集外國各種的立法力 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 無論是贊同的或是禁止的 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 我們來分析 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 跟我們台灣社會能不能有一個平衡點 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 那這個事情的工作一直在進行當中 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 院長我再繼續談 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 我很遺憾您始終沒有掌握完整的民意 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 我最近拜訪了一位醫師資政 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 我想你知道是誰 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 他對我說旁邊還有人我的助理 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 待遇是功德無量影響深淵 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 那張景森前政委他是公開談 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 在臉書說不應該用社會沒有共識 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 一再拖延這個待遇立法 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 他甚至提醒民進黨 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 因為你號稱是民主進步 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 他甚至提醒民進黨說要注意 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:53,000 | 自己進步這個主張 |
| 00:09:53,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 是不是過時了 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 他總共提出10點 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 關於待遇修法的建議 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 我認為相當的精準 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:03,000 | 可以作為修法的重要參考 |
| 00:10:03,000 | 00:10:05,000 | 那院長我想請教您 |
| 00:10:05,000 | 00:10:07,000 | 您可以撥一點時間 |
| 00:10:07,000 | 00:10:09,000 | 您寶貴的時間向這位資政 |
| 00:10:09,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 還有張景森前政委請議 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 聽聽他們的想法 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:15,000 | 你可以撥時間嗎 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 當然可以 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:19,000 | 張景森前政委無論是在談這個議題 |
| 00:10:19,000 | 00:10:21,000 | 或是在談高鐵的議題 |
| 00:10:21,000 | 00:10:23,000 | 我都可以向他來請議 |
| 00:10:23,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 因為他代表的一種聲音 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 也是臺灣寶貴的意見 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:28,000 | 院長這位資政本身是不孕症醫師 |
| 00:10:28,000 | 00:10:29,000 | 你知道我指的是誰嗎 |
| 00:10:29,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 臺中的 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 好一起來請教他 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 還有上次委員會人工升職法審查的時候 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:37,000 | 民進黨用非常粗暴 |
| 00:10:37,000 | 00:10:41,000 | 霸道不人道的方式來對待我 |
| 00:10:41,000 | 00:10:43,000 | 一開始就程序發言 |
| 00:10:43,000 | 00:10:46,000 | 然後用表決方式把待遇脫鉤 |
| 00:10:46,000 | 00:10:49,000 | 然後當天禁止討論待遇 |
| 00:10:49,000 | 00:10:53,000 | 他完全漠視子宮有缺損的婦女 |
| 00:10:53,000 | 00:10:56,000 | 因為求子不得他的痛苦 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 當然也扼殺了男童日家庭 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:01,000 | 他想要有孩子的渴望 |
| 00:11:01,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 所以我想請教院長 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:06,000 | 秦政院不是沒有提過 |
| 00:11:06,000 | 00:11:09,000 | 韓代孕的人工升職法草案 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:11,000 | 其實用專法處理我也可以接受 |
| 00:11:11,000 | 00:11:15,000 | 院長您可以承諾嗎 |
| 00:11:15,000 | 00:11:17,000 | 就是說可不可以再提出一次 |
| 00:11:17,000 | 00:11:21,000 | 再提出一次韓有待孕的草案 |
| 00:11:21,000 | 00:11:23,000 | 用專法也行 |
| 00:11:23,000 | 00:11:25,000 | 可以嗎院長 |
| 00:11:25,000 | 00:11:27,000 | 因為目前我們在國內的 |
| 00:11:27,000 | 00:11:30,000 | 收集各方的意見差距還是很大 |
| 00:11:30,000 | 00:11:32,000 | 所以在這個情況底下 |
| 00:11:32,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 我們所提出的人工升職 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:38,000 | 院長容許我說天下是誰沒有爭議 |
| 00:11:38,000 | 00:11:40,000 | 但是爭議還是很大 |
| 00:11:40,000 | 00:11:41,000 | 不好意思 |
| 00:11:41,000 | 00:11:43,000 | 有接近八成是不同意的意見 |
| 00:11:43,000 | 00:11:44,000 | 那個八成有問題的啦 |
| 00:11:44,000 | 00:11:45,000 | 不是平台上的 |
| 00:11:45,000 | 00:11:47,000 | 院長不好意思 |
| 00:11:47,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 每個人都有爭議 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:50,000 | 也許我在我的職位上也有爭議 |
| 00:11:50,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 也許您在你的職位上也有爭議 |
| 00:11:52,000 | 00:11:54,000 | 不是用爭議就一再的拖延 |
| 00:11:54,000 | 00:11:57,000 | 我已經告訴你後遺症都出來了 |
| 00:11:57,000 | 00:12:00,000 | 院長這個牽涉人權跟國安問題 |
| 00:12:00,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 您還覺得有這樣大的疑慮嗎 |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:07,000 | 你也知道台灣今年剩下九萬多嘛 |
| 00:12:07,000 | 00:12:08,000 | 出申訴嘛 |
| 00:12:08,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 我想你要背在大腦裡嘛 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 台灣不需要中國打過來 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 直接亡國滅種啦 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:16,000 | 這些是不怕養孩子的人 |
| 00:12:16,000 | 00:12:18,000 | 他有困難醫學上的困難 |
| 00:12:18,000 | 00:12:20,000 | 我還是請院長 |
| 00:12:20,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 我可以向委員承諾 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:25,000 | 我們會積極的去尋求更大的共識 |
| 00:12:25,000 | 00:12:28,000 | 過程當中我們會把這個時間 |
| 00:12:28,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 盡量把它弄到一個大家可以看到的時辰 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:35,000 | 去做出一個可以討論的機制出來 |
| 00:12:35,000 | 00:12:37,000 | 這個過程當中我相信 |
| 00:12:37,000 | 00:12:39,000 | 無論是人工升職或代孕 |
| 00:12:39,000 | 00:12:41,000 | 他還有其他的方式 |
| 00:12:41,000 | 00:12:44,000 | 可以來讓希望擁有小孩的人 |
| 00:12:44,000 | 00:12:45,000 | 沒有其他的方式 |
| 00:12:45,000 | 00:12:47,000 | 子宮有問題的話 |
| 00:12:47,000 | 00:12:48,000 | 時部長在委員會回答我 |
| 00:12:48,000 | 00:12:50,000 | 我很想罵他 |
| 00:12:50,000 | 00:12:51,000 | 子宮有問題 |
| 00:12:51,000 | 00:12:53,000 | 他沒有其他替代方式 |
| 00:12:53,000 | 00:12:55,000 | 我很尊重自己所 |
| 00:12:55,000 | 00:12:57,000 | 從自己所重出的小孩 |
| 00:12:57,000 | 00:12:59,000 | 這樣的意念我很尊重 |
| 00:12:59,000 | 00:13:00,000 | 那是醫學常識 |
| 00:13:00,000 | 00:13:01,000 | 院長我還有故事 |
| 00:13:01,000 | 00:13:05,000 | 今年7月德國執政議會黨團主席叫施潘 |
| 00:13:05,000 | 00:13:06,000 | 他辭職下台 |
| 00:13:06,000 | 00:13:07,000 | 我先問院長 |
| 00:13:07,000 | 00:13:10,000 | 你知道他為什麼辭職嗎 |
| 00:13:10,000 | 00:13:12,000 | 你說赴美代理 |
| 00:13:12,000 | 00:13:13,000 | 不是不是 |
| 00:13:13,000 | 00:13:17,000 | 德國執政議會黨團主席叫施潘 |
| 00:13:17,000 | 00:13:19,000 | 他辭職下台了 |
| 00:13:19,000 | 00:13:20,000 | 院長知道原因嗎 |
| 00:13:20,000 | 00:13:21,000 | 7月的時候 |
| 00:13:21,000 | 00:13:25,000 | 因為他曾經投票反對代孕 |
| 00:13:25,000 | 00:13:28,000 | 可是最後他自己到美國尋求代孕 |
| 00:13:28,000 | 00:13:31,000 | 他被人家說是雙標 |
| 00:13:31,000 | 00:13:32,000 | 這就是我說的 |
| 00:13:32,000 | 00:13:34,000 | 如果今天是你女兒 |
| 00:13:34,000 | 00:13:35,000 | 你孫女 |
| 00:13:35,000 | 00:13:36,000 | 你的摯愛 |
| 00:13:36,000 | 00:13:37,000 | 你的親友 |
| 00:13:37,000 | 00:13:39,000 | 面對同樣的問題的時候 |
| 00:13:39,000 | 00:13:41,000 | 而且他唯一的希望 |
| 00:13:41,000 | 00:13:44,000 | 你又不准他去追求 |
| 00:13:44,000 | 00:13:47,000 | 施潘在他的辭職信說 |
| 00:13:47,000 | 00:13:51,000 | 自己在政治職務跟個人幸福之間難以平衡 |
| 00:13:51,000 | 00:13:53,000 | 那政治工作就是要找出 |
| 00:13:53,000 | 00:13:56,000 | 政治工作就是要找出這中間可以的平衡點 |
| 00:13:56,000 | 00:14:00,000 | 讓社會大家通用共用這個標準 |
| 00:14:00,000 | 00:14:01,000 | 這個事情不用太正確 |
| 00:14:01,000 | 00:14:04,000 | 我告訴你他是因為雙標而下來 |
| 00:14:04,000 | 00:14:05,000 | 而且他不應該雙標 |
| 00:14:05,000 | 00:14:07,000 | 院長一句話 |
| 00:14:07,000 | 00:14:10,000 | 未經他人苦莫勸他人善 |
| 00:14:10,000 | 00:14:14,000 | 未經他人苦莫勸他人善 |
| 00:14:14,000 | 00:14:17,000 | 我再次提醒院長跟反對代孕的同事們 |
| 00:14:17,000 | 00:14:21,000 | 請不要用你的政治職務去阻擋別人追求幸福 |
| 00:14:21,000 | 00:14:22,000 | 尤其是民進黨立委 |
| 00:14:22,000 | 00:14:23,000 | 你們知不知道 |
| 00:14:23,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 貴黨有大咖大咖的人物 |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:30,000 | 他的孫子是利用代孕出生的 |
| 00:14:30,000 | 00:14:31,000 | 而且不只一位 |
| 00:14:31,000 | 00:14:33,000 | 他們是親口告訴我的 |
| 00:14:33,000 | 00:14:35,000 | 那基於尊重隱私 |
| 00:14:35,000 | 00:14:37,000 | 我不會在這裡公開 |
| 00:14:37,000 | 00:14:39,000 | 那院長您知道是誰嗎 |
| 00:14:39,000 | 00:14:40,000 | 我不知道 |
| 00:14:40,000 | 00:14:41,000 | 您不知道嗎 |
| 00:14:41,000 | 00:14:43,000 | 我一直覺得您的意見 |
| 00:14:43,000 | 00:14:46,000 | 您的想法非常的封閉跟封鎖 |
| 00:14:46,000 | 00:14:47,000 | 當然他不告訴你 |
| 00:14:47,000 | 00:14:49,000 | 他會告訴我 |
| 00:14:49,000 | 00:14:51,000 | 那其實反對者的代孕的權益 |
| 00:14:51,000 | 00:14:55,000 | 我必須回到一個很實際面來談 |
| 00:14:55,000 | 00:14:57,000 | 他們的擔憂是存在的 |
| 00:14:57,000 | 00:14:59,000 | 我承認這些疑慮是存在 |
| 00:14:59,000 | 00:15:01,000 | 可是正是因為疑慮存在 |
| 00:15:01,000 | 00:15:03,000 | 我們是不是應該如此 |
| 00:15:03,000 | 00:15:06,000 | 更應如此才需要把它法制化 |
| 00:15:06,000 | 00:15:08,000 | 而轉化為具體的法條 |
| 00:15:08,000 | 00:15:10,000 | 那不是說把問題擱著 |
| 00:15:10,000 | 00:15:11,000 | 中眾沒看見 |
| 00:15:11,000 | 00:15:14,000 | 中眾沒看見房間裡的大象 |
| 00:15:14,000 | 00:15:16,000 | 根據衛福部的統計 |
| 00:15:16,000 | 00:15:18,000 | 不育女性將近有兩成 |
| 00:15:18,000 | 00:15:20,000 | 他就是子宮有缺損 |
| 00:15:20,000 | 00:15:22,000 | 子宮有缺損 |
| 00:15:22,000 | 00:15:25,000 | 那排除這個極端年齡 |
| 00:15:25,000 | 00:15:27,000 | 累積大概有一萬多人 |
| 00:15:27,000 | 00:15:29,000 | 那先天性子宮像我如此 |
| 00:15:29,000 | 00:15:30,000 | 發育不全 |
| 00:15:30,000 | 00:15:31,000 | 五千個一個人 |
| 00:15:31,000 | 00:15:33,000 | 大概也有一萬多人 |
| 00:15:33,000 | 00:15:35,000 | 那我現在先不計 |
| 00:15:35,000 | 00:15:37,000 | 男男同志家庭的可求 |
| 00:15:37,000 | 00:15:39,000 | 男男同志家庭 |
| 00:15:39,000 | 00:15:41,000 | 那反正簡單的說 |
| 00:15:41,000 | 00:15:44,000 | 代孕是這群人唯一的機會 |
| 00:15:44,000 | 00:15:46,000 | 那一定要阻斷他們希望 |
| 00:15:46,000 | 00:15:49,000 | 一定要逼著他們到海外去求助嗎 |
| 00:15:49,000 | 00:15:52,000 | 麻煩院長回答我 |
| 00:15:52,000 | 00:15:54,000 | 我也不願意看到 |
| 00:15:54,000 | 00:15:57,000 | 也不願意看到這樣的方式 |
| 00:15:57,000 | 00:15:58,000 | 我們應該尊重 |
| 00:15:58,000 | 00:15:59,000 | 我數字也給你看啊 |
| 00:15:59,000 | 00:16:00,000 | 我們尊重每一個生命 |
| 00:16:00,000 | 00:16:01,000 | 無論他是用什麼方式 |
| 00:16:01,000 | 00:16:02,000 | 他總是一個生命 |
| 00:16:02,000 | 00:16:05,000 | 我們也尊重希望擁有自己小孩 |
| 00:16:05,000 | 00:16:06,000 | 他有一個選擇權 |
| 00:16:06,000 | 00:16:09,000 | 但是這個選擇權要放在當今社會當中 |
| 00:16:09,000 | 00:16:12,000 | 被法律被道德被所有的社會觀念 |
| 00:16:12,000 | 00:16:14,000 | 我希望您對這個議題不要擠 |
| 00:16:14,000 | 00:16:16,000 | 多久以來 |
| 00:16:16,000 | 00:16:19,000 | 當然您擔任行政院長之後權力更大 |
| 00:16:19,000 | 00:16:22,000 | 我希望您不要永遠是自私的思考 |
| 00:16:22,000 | 00:16:25,000 | 我今天很鼓勵告訴你海內外的事情 |
| 00:16:25,000 | 00:16:27,000 | 我告訴你台灣也出事了 |
| 00:16:27,000 | 00:16:29,000 | 而且通常你會了解 |
| 00:16:29,000 | 00:16:30,000 | 你也同意吧 |
| 00:16:30,000 | 00:16:32,000 | 出事都是冰山立角 |
| 00:16:32,000 | 00:16:34,000 | 揭發的才算 |
| 00:16:34,000 | 00:16:36,000 | 不知道的你都不知道 |
| 00:16:36,000 | 00:16:37,000 | 我知道的會比你多 |
| 00:16:37,000 | 00:16:39,000 | 我當然也接觸過 |
| 00:16:39,000 | 00:16:42,000 | 來自外國代理而生的小孩的經驗 |
| 00:16:42,000 | 00:16:43,000 | 我是有的 |
| 00:16:43,000 | 00:16:45,000 | 我也知道他們尋求這個方式 |
| 00:16:45,000 | 00:16:47,000 | 你剛剛也同意說 |
| 00:16:47,000 | 00:16:50,000 | 譬如說這位執政的意見 |
| 00:16:50,000 | 00:16:53,000 | 或是說當前的意見 |
| 00:16:53,000 | 00:16:55,000 | 然後我們看看怎麼來做 |
| 00:16:55,000 | 00:16:57,000 | 要專訪為什麼可以來討論 |
| 00:16:57,000 | 00:16:59,000 | 你的國家都快亡國滅種了 |
| 00:16:59,000 | 00:17:00,000 | 你不擔心嗎 |
| 00:17:00,000 | 00:17:02,000 | 不會我們會努力 |
| 00:17:02,000 | 00:17:03,000 | 麻煩院長 |
| 00:17:03,000 | 00:17:06,000 | 現在時部長可以請回座 |
| 00:17:06,000 | 00:17:09,000 | 請法務部跟人事行政總處人事長 |
| 00:17:09,000 | 00:17:11,000 | 我一邊說 |
| 00:17:11,000 | 00:17:13,000 | 請法務部長人事總處備署 |
| 00:17:13,000 | 00:17:14,000 | 謝謝主席 |
| 00:17:14,000 | 00:17:16,000 | 今年來詐騙案爆增 |
| 00:17:16,000 | 00:17:19,000 | 地檢署114年新售案高達82萬件 |
| 00:17:19,000 | 00:17:22,000 | 比110年成長了將近三成 |
| 00:17:22,000 | 00:17:24,000 | 法務部的保守估計 |
| 00:17:24,000 | 00:17:27,000 | 大概還需要2009位 |
| 00:17:27,000 | 00:17:30,000 | 這是我們所知沒問題吧 |
| 00:17:30,000 | 00:17:34,000 | 法務部監守犯人近五年來 |
| 00:17:34,000 | 00:17:38,000 | 暴增1萬多的收容人 |
| 00:17:38,000 | 00:17:39,000 | 跟受刑人 |
| 00:17:39,000 | 00:17:42,000 | 但是管理員不增反減 |
| 00:17:42,000 | 00:17:46,000 | 目前一名大概要看守多少名受刑人 |
| 00:17:46,000 | 00:17:48,000 | 部長知道嗎 |
| 00:17:48,000 | 00:17:50,000 | 我考部長好了不要考院長 |
| 00:17:50,000 | 00:17:51,000 | 不要考院長 |
| 00:17:51,000 | 00:17:55,000 | 一名監守管理員要看守多少名受刑人 |
| 00:17:55,000 | 00:17:59,000 | 我們監守管理員在看守我們在時間上 |
| 00:17:59,000 | 00:18:01,000 | 比率是很高的應該是7 |
| 00:18:01,000 | 00:18:05,000 | 12名好沒問題謝謝部長 |
| 00:18:05,000 | 00:18:07,000 | 因為我是從總體的來的 |
| 00:18:07,000 | 00:18:08,000 | 不是單純從那個來的 |
| 00:18:08,000 | 00:18:10,000 | 我覺得署長也許今天他不用出席 |
| 00:18:10,000 | 00:18:11,000 | 12名了 |
| 00:18:11,000 | 00:18:14,000 | 矯正署直言這個都是所知 |
| 00:18:14,000 | 00:18:16,000 | 今天你們看這個頭一片 |
| 00:18:16,000 | 00:18:18,000 | 他需要3758人 |
| 00:18:18,000 | 00:18:21,000 | 那近期法務部對監所操縮的解放 |
| 00:18:21,000 | 00:18:23,000 | 當然竟然是大開前後門 |
| 00:18:23,000 | 00:18:26,000 | 就是輕刑犯都罰錢不要關 |
| 00:18:26,000 | 00:18:29,000 | 要學習美國的有點學習美國的零員購 |
| 00:18:29,000 | 00:18:32,000 | 這個該委員我們沒有零員購 |
| 00:18:32,000 | 00:18:35,000 | 我們是那個重刑犯我們是具體求重刑 |
| 00:18:35,000 | 00:18:37,000 | 然後這個決議員沒有零員購 |
| 00:18:37,000 | 00:18:38,000 | 沒有那個零員購政策 |
| 00:18:38,000 | 00:18:40,000 | 我們是完全沒有考慮的 |
| 00:18:40,000 | 00:18:41,000 | 如果正經這樣 |
| 00:18:41,000 | 00:18:43,000 | 所以這委員這個在此要澄清 |
| 00:18:43,000 | 00:18:46,000 | 如果正經說抓不到詐騙 |
| 00:18:46,000 | 00:18:48,000 | 我們就是沒辦法 |
| 00:18:48,000 | 00:18:50,000 | 所以這個零員購這個是媒體那個報告 |
| 00:18:50,000 | 00:18:51,000 | 根本完全沒有政策 |
| 00:18:51,000 | 00:18:52,000 | 完全沒有這回事 |
| 00:18:52,000 | 00:18:53,000 | 這個治安的破口 |
| 00:18:53,000 | 00:18:54,000 | 因為誰都扛不起 |
| 00:18:54,000 | 00:18:55,000 | 誰都扛不起 |
| 00:18:55,000 | 00:18:56,000 | 那我再次強調 |
| 00:18:56,000 | 00:18:58,000 | 我絕不贊成大開前後門 |
| 00:18:58,000 | 00:18:59,000 | 也不能走向這個零員購 |
| 00:18:59,000 | 00:19:00,000 | 你說沒有是最好的 |
| 00:19:00,000 | 00:19:03,000 | 我爭取的就是增加監所管理人力 |
| 00:19:03,000 | 00:19:06,000 | 我想請問這個人事長 |
| 00:19:06,000 | 00:19:08,000 | 這個司法院法務部矯正署 |
| 00:19:08,000 | 00:19:10,000 | 是不是多次跟你們溝通過 |
| 00:19:10,000 | 00:19:11,000 | 他需要增加員額 |
| 00:19:11,000 | 00:19:12,000 | 有或沒有就好了 |
| 00:19:12,000 | 00:19:14,000 | 你有重視嗎 |
| 00:19:14,000 | 00:19:16,000 | 我們很重視 |
| 00:19:16,000 | 00:19:17,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:19:17,000 | 00:19:19,000 | 這個近十年來 |
| 00:19:19,000 | 00:19:20,000 | 其實我們在這個區塊 |
| 00:19:20,000 | 00:19:23,000 | 從司法院檢察機關跟矯正署 |
| 00:19:23,000 | 00:19:25,000 | 我們已經增加了4天 |
| 00:19:25,000 | 00:19:26,000 | 我有一個重點 |
| 00:19:26,000 | 00:19:28,000 | 你們對外宣稱說總員額法 |
| 00:19:28,000 | 00:19:29,000 | 有第四條第五項 |
| 00:19:29,000 | 00:19:31,000 | 有彈性調整不用修法 |
| 00:19:31,000 | 00:19:33,000 | 還說我在公聽會當中 |
| 00:19:33,000 | 00:19:34,000 | 他們直接代表這樣講的 |
| 00:19:34,000 | 00:19:36,000 | 上限還有2萬多個名額沒用到 |
| 00:19:36,000 | 00:19:38,000 | 額度沒有用到 |
| 00:19:38,000 | 00:19:40,000 | 那我想請問一件事 |
| 00:19:40,000 | 00:19:41,000 | 這個彈性條款 |
| 00:19:41,000 | 00:19:43,000 | 你們都用過幾次 |
| 00:19:43,000 | 00:19:45,000 | 總員額法下的第四條第五項 |
| 00:19:45,000 | 00:19:46,000 | 遇有一些重大事情 |
| 00:19:46,000 | 00:19:47,000 | 突發事情的時候 |
| 00:19:47,000 | 00:19:48,000 | 其實有一些狀況 |
| 00:19:48,000 | 00:19:50,000 | 他是可以做調整的 |
| 00:19:50,000 | 00:19:51,000 | 你用過幾次 |
| 00:19:51,000 | 00:19:52,000 | 你知道嗎 |
| 00:19:52,000 | 00:19:54,000 | 調整這個條款你用過幾次 |
| 00:19:54,000 | 00:19:56,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:19:56,000 | 00:19:58,000 | 因為上次是在108年的時候 |
| 00:19:58,000 | 00:19:59,000 | 總要有學證 |
| 00:19:59,000 | 00:20:00,000 | 沒有沒有沒有 |
| 00:20:00,000 | 00:20:01,000 | 直接在法條上修正 |
| 00:20:01,000 | 00:20:02,000 | 我直接告訴你 |
| 00:20:02,000 | 00:20:03,000 | 剛委員你詢問到的 |
| 00:20:03,000 | 00:20:06,000 | 那個第四條第五項的部分 |
| 00:20:06,000 | 00:20:08,000 | 公聽會一次都沒有啦 |
| 00:20:08,000 | 00:20:09,000 | 那目前 |
| 00:20:09,000 | 00:20:10,000 | 你不要硬撞啦 |
| 00:20:10,000 | 00:20:12,000 | 行頭驅色啦 |
| 00:20:12,000 | 00:20:14,000 | 因為還沒有到那個高線 |
| 00:20:15,000 | 00:20:16,000 | 沒有高線 |
| 00:20:16,000 | 00:20:17,000 | 等一下我再問別人 |
| 00:20:17,000 | 00:20:19,000 | 基層申請這個爭奪 |
| 00:20:19,000 | 00:20:20,000 | 四處崩壁 |
| 00:20:20,000 | 00:20:22,000 | 你們有彈性這個 |
| 00:20:22,000 | 00:20:24,000 | 這條第四條第五項 |
| 00:20:24,000 | 00:20:25,000 | 那個是一個彈性 |
| 00:20:25,000 | 00:20:26,000 | 可以處理 |
| 00:20:26,000 | 00:20:28,000 | 好請問法務部長那個 |
| 00:20:28,000 | 00:20:30,000 | 政部長你同意嗎 |
| 00:20:30,000 | 00:20:32,000 | 就是說現在沒有這個問題 |
| 00:20:32,000 | 00:20:33,000 | 好都不用 |
| 00:20:33,000 | 00:20:35,000 | 你們申請原額也沒有問題 |
| 00:20:35,000 | 00:20:37,000 | 我們希望是增加原額 |
| 00:20:37,000 | 00:20:39,000 | 我們也是持續黑棍人種 |
| 00:20:39,000 | 00:20:41,000 | 來討論那個預算原額 |
| 00:20:41,000 | 00:20:43,000 | 這部分我們是希望來 |
| 00:20:43,000 | 00:20:44,000 | 我是所知來的 |
| 00:20:44,000 | 00:20:45,000 | 請他們就是評估 |
| 00:20:45,000 | 00:20:46,000 | 因為你們也做過研究 |
| 00:20:46,000 | 00:20:47,000 | 因為我們會再做一個 |
| 00:20:47,000 | 00:20:49,000 | 因為有種原額法的一個問題 |
| 00:20:49,000 | 00:20:50,000 | 所以當然我們是希望能夠 |
| 00:20:50,000 | 00:20:51,000 | 增加那個預算原額 |
| 00:20:51,000 | 00:20:52,000 | 所以上去要原額嘛 |
| 00:20:52,000 | 00:20:53,000 | 在人種 |
| 00:20:53,000 | 00:20:55,000 | 對剛委員問到那個 |
| 00:20:55,000 | 00:20:56,000 | 剛委員問到那個 |
| 00:20:56,000 | 00:20:57,000 | 那個困難嘛 |
| 00:20:57,000 | 00:20:59,000 | 那個剛剛那個比例 |
| 00:20:59,000 | 00:21:01,000 | 我們是要增加那個預算原額 |
| 00:21:01,000 | 00:21:02,000 | 1比12沒有錯 |
| 00:21:02,000 | 00:21:03,000 | 那現在其實 |
| 00:21:03,000 | 00:21:05,000 | 我們跟法務部一直在努力處理這一塊 |
| 00:21:05,000 | 00:21:08,000 | 現在是1比10.8 |
| 00:21:09,000 | 00:21:11,000 | 那個人種的問題啊 |
| 00:21:11,000 | 00:21:12,000 | 我問你啊人事長 |
| 00:21:12,000 | 00:21:14,000 | 台灣的這個介護比呢 |
| 00:21:14,000 | 00:21:15,000 | 就是一個這個 |
| 00:21:15,000 | 00:21:18,000 | 監所管理員要看顧多少這個受刑人呢 |
| 00:21:18,000 | 00:21:19,000 | 你有這個數字比嗎 |
| 00:21:19,000 | 00:21:21,000 | 現在調整到1比10.8 |
| 00:21:21,000 | 00:21:22,000 | 剛剛我們才1比12 |
| 00:21:22,000 | 00:21:25,000 | 現在已經改善到1比10.8 |
| 00:21:25,000 | 00:21:26,000 | 沒有你這個分歧 |
| 00:21:26,000 | 00:21:28,000 | 有很多操作都不行啦 |
| 00:21:28,000 | 00:21:30,000 | 有操作到6成到8成都有 |
| 00:21:30,000 | 00:21:31,000 | 都持續在改善 |
| 00:21:31,000 | 00:21:32,000 | 用平均很危險啦 |
| 00:21:32,000 | 00:21:33,000 | 用平均很危險 |
| 00:21:33,000 | 00:21:34,000 | 但是事實上大概就是 |
| 00:21:34,000 | 00:21:36,000 | 平均就已經1比12了 |
| 00:21:36,000 | 00:21:39,000 | 那日本是1比2點多嘛 |
| 00:21:39,000 | 00:21:40,000 | 美國是1比4嘛 |
| 00:21:40,000 | 00:21:42,000 | 韓國是1比3嘛 |
| 00:21:42,000 | 00:21:44,000 | 想想看嘛好好反省你們的研究 |
| 00:21:44,000 | 00:21:47,000 | 你們研究說至少要1比6到8啦 |
| 00:21:48,000 | 00:21:50,000 | 打炸不能只靠燃燒基層啦 |
| 00:21:50,000 | 00:21:51,000 | 這生命啦 |
| 00:21:51,000 | 00:21:54,000 | 所以你們的彈性調整看得到吃不到 |
| 00:21:54,000 | 00:21:56,000 | 好證明需要修改 |
| 00:21:56,000 | 00:21:57,000 | 怎麼修改是可以討論的 |
| 00:21:57,000 | 00:21:59,000 | 那人種是不是這樣 |
| 00:21:59,000 | 00:22:01,000 | 一個月內你研議提出那個 |
| 00:22:01,000 | 00:22:02,000 | 你的修法草案給我們看 |
| 00:22:02,000 | 00:22:04,000 | 你總要做點修正吧 |
| 00:22:04,000 | 00:22:05,000 | 跟我報告 |
| 00:22:05,000 | 00:22:07,000 | 多久按兵不動呢 |
| 00:22:07,000 | 00:22:08,000 | 上次有跟委員報告 |
| 00:22:08,000 | 00:22:11,000 | 因為這個空間還有2萬2千多人嘛 |
| 00:22:11,000 | 00:22:13,000 | 其實還沒有到高限 |
| 00:22:13,000 | 00:22:14,000 | 你看看怎麼處理嘛 |
| 00:22:14,000 | 00:22:15,000 | 還沒有到高限 |
| 00:22:15,000 | 00:22:17,000 | 那他們單位提出來以後 |
| 00:22:17,000 | 00:22:19,000 | 我們就會協助來做評估 |
| 00:22:19,000 | 00:22:21,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:22:21,000 | 00:22:23,000 | 跟委員報告一句話一件事就好了 |
| 00:22:23,000 | 00:22:25,000 | 過去司法檢查矯正機關 |
| 00:22:25,000 | 00:22:26,000 | 10年來增加4千人 |
| 00:22:26,000 | 00:22:27,000 | 當然人數不夠 |
| 00:22:27,000 | 00:22:29,000 | 因為為什麼不夠 |
| 00:22:29,000 | 00:22:32,000 | 現在法定的原額編制16萬多人 |
| 00:22:32,000 | 00:22:34,000 | 但是我們現在預算原額 |
| 00:22:34,000 | 00:22:36,000 | 編了13萬多人 |
| 00:22:36,000 | 00:22:37,000 | 我會同意 |
| 00:22:37,000 | 00:22:38,000 | 我也會支持 |
| 00:22:38,000 | 00:22:41,000 | 在現在這個治安的狀況底下 |
| 00:22:41,000 | 00:22:45,000 | 增加預算原額給相關司法檢查 |
| 00:22:45,000 | 00:22:47,000 | 以及找線人員 |
| 00:22:47,000 | 00:22:48,000 | 我會同意我會支持 |
| 00:22:48,000 | 00:22:50,000 | 那告白我所知後 |
| 00:22:50,000 | 00:22:52,000 | 他們也提出他們的真正需求嘛 |
| 00:22:52,000 | 00:22:55,000 | 那我是依據這個資料來詢問嘛 |
| 00:22:55,000 | 00:22:57,000 | 那個總原額法有一些問題 |
| 00:22:57,000 | 00:23:00,000 | 有彈性條款就從來沒有動用過 |
| 00:23:00,000 | 00:23:02,000 | 好嗎 |
| 00:23:02,000 | 00:23:04,000 | 目前還不需要變動總原額法 |
| 00:23:04,000 | 00:23:06,000 | 我們現在增加預算原額 |
| 00:23:06,000 | 00:23:08,000 | 預算增加就可以了 |
| 00:23:08,000 | 00:23:09,000 | 人總書面高謝謝你 |
| 00:23:09,000 | 00:23:10,000 | 那請卓葵先留步 |
| 00:23:10,000 | 00:23:12,000 | 我請內政部劉部長海瑋瑋 |
| 00:23:12,000 | 00:23:14,000 | 管主委環境部彭部長 |
| 00:23:14,000 | 00:23:16,000 | 交通部陳部長 |
| 00:23:16,000 | 00:23:18,000 | 謝謝主席 |
| 00:23:18,000 | 00:23:20,000 | 我一邊說節省時間 |
| 00:23:20,000 | 00:23:23,000 | 為了解決這個營建正與土石方 |
| 00:23:23,000 | 00:23:27,000 | 今年就任院長您宣布了這個大填海造陸計畫 |
| 00:23:27,000 | 00:23:29,000 | 讓原本收容這個 |
| 00:23:29,000 | 00:23:33,000 | 港區蘇峻坦紗的為主的台中港 |
| 00:23:33,000 | 00:23:35,000 | 他變成要去承擔 |
| 00:23:35,000 | 00:23:38,000 | 上千萬立方公使的營建正與土石方 |
| 00:23:38,000 | 00:23:40,000 | 那陳委時間暫停 |
| 00:23:40,000 | 00:23:42,000 | 陳委我們就兩位部長 |
| 00:23:42,000 | 00:23:43,000 | 那我的時間暫停 |
| 00:23:43,000 | 00:23:44,000 | 時間暫停我已經暫停 |
| 00:23:44,000 | 00:23:46,000 | 我們不適合這麼多好不好 |
| 00:23:46,000 | 00:23:48,000 | 這樣感覺畫面上 |
| 00:23:48,000 | 00:23:49,000 | 好謝謝主席 |
| 00:23:49,000 | 00:23:50,000 | 麻煩請內政部長交通部長備詢 |
| 00:23:50,000 | 00:23:51,000 | 其他兩位部長請回 |
| 00:23:51,000 | 00:23:53,000 | 稍微等一下好不好 |
| 00:23:53,000 | 00:23:55,000 | 不要在次序上面 |
| 00:23:55,000 | 00:23:56,000 | 但我這題有涉及 |
| 00:23:56,000 | 00:23:58,000 | 部長也表達尊重 |
| 00:23:58,000 | 00:24:00,000 | 那為了解決營建正與土石方 |
| 00:24:00,000 | 00:24:05,000 | 院長您在六月有宣布這個大填海造陸計畫 |
| 00:24:05,000 | 00:24:08,000 | 那原本是要收容港區蘇峻海紗的台中港 |
| 00:24:08,000 | 00:24:10,000 | 現在變成要去承擔 |
| 00:24:10,000 | 00:24:13,000 | 這個上千萬立方公尺的營建正與土石方 |
| 00:24:13,000 | 00:24:17,000 | 還有上百萬立方公尺的這個所謂再生力量 |
| 00:24:17,000 | 00:24:18,000 | 我先請問這個 |
| 00:24:18,000 | 00:24:20,000 | 彭部長沒上來喔 |
| 00:24:20,000 | 00:24:22,000 | 我剛剛有請你上來 |
| 00:24:23,000 | 00:24:25,000 | 麻煩請彭部長 |
| 00:24:25,000 | 00:24:26,000 | 部長您一邊聽好嗎 |
| 00:24:26,000 | 00:24:27,000 | 因為您聽得懂 |
| 00:24:27,000 | 00:24:32,000 | 這塊地已經被海委會公告為白海豚重要棲地 |
| 00:24:32,000 | 00:24:35,000 | 那台中港既然要變更用途 |
| 00:24:35,000 | 00:24:37,000 | 那為什麼不用走環評 |
| 00:24:37,000 | 00:24:38,000 | 部長回答 |
| 00:24:38,000 | 00:24:39,000 | 為什麼用或不用 |
| 00:24:39,000 | 00:24:42,000 | 第一個我們非常重視白海豚 |
| 00:24:42,000 | 00:24:43,000 | 我們不會去破壞 |
| 00:24:43,000 | 00:24:45,000 | 我們要避免白海豚受到各種的傷害 |
| 00:24:45,000 | 00:24:46,000 | 就是那塊地 |
| 00:24:46,000 | 00:24:49,000 | 對但是這個事情是 |
| 00:24:49,000 | 00:24:51,000 | 因為我們環評是雙目的主管機關 |
| 00:24:51,000 | 00:24:54,000 | 所以在民國111年的時候 |
| 00:24:54,000 | 00:24:56,000 | 我們有請交通部來認定這塊要不要環評 |
| 00:24:56,000 | 00:25:00,000 | 因為它外面有一塊凸出去的皮 |
| 00:25:00,000 | 00:25:02,000 | 按照目前的法規認定 |
| 00:25:02,000 | 00:25:03,000 | 它是不需要環評的 |
| 00:25:03,000 | 00:25:04,000 | 不需要環評 |
| 00:25:04,000 | 00:25:06,000 | 那個圖麻煩部長 |
| 00:25:06,000 | 00:25:07,000 | 你要親自看一下 |
| 00:25:07,000 | 00:25:08,000 | 因為每次開這個工業 |
| 00:25:08,000 | 00:25:11,000 | 當然也沒辦法請動您這位大部長來看 |
| 00:25:11,000 | 00:25:14,000 | 我先問高雄港填方區工程計畫 |
| 00:25:14,000 | 00:25:15,000 | 要進入二階環評 |
| 00:25:15,000 | 00:25:17,000 | 為什麼台中港就不需要 |
| 00:25:17,000 | 00:25:18,000 | 目前還沒有送進來 |
| 00:25:18,000 | 00:25:20,000 | 因為它的另外一個範圍的問題 |
| 00:25:20,000 | 00:25:24,000 | 然後還有要請交通部他們來認定這個港 |
| 00:25:24,000 | 00:25:25,000 | 是不是需要環評 |
| 00:25:25,000 | 00:25:27,000 | 因為這個在法規裡面 |
| 00:25:27,000 | 00:25:28,000 | 主委要放在心上 |
| 00:25:28,000 | 00:25:33,000 | 保育是你們很重要的責任 |
| 00:25:33,000 | 00:25:34,000 | 目前推動的彭部長 |
| 00:25:34,000 | 00:25:37,000 | 南填方區工程經費高達104億 |
| 00:25:37,000 | 00:25:40,000 | 那事實上就是111的香港計畫 |
| 00:25:40,000 | 00:25:42,000 | 我主持過好幾次記者會 |
| 00:25:42,000 | 00:25:43,000 | 可能五次以上 |
| 00:25:43,000 | 00:25:47,000 | 行政機關又說這是106的香港計畫既有開放 |
| 00:25:47,000 | 00:25:50,000 | 我想請問交通部陳部長 |
| 00:25:50,000 | 00:25:51,000 | 陳部長您出席嗎 |
| 00:25:51,000 | 00:25:53,000 | 交通部長請備詢 |
| 00:25:58,000 | 00:25:59,000 | 這個說法 |
| 00:25:59,000 | 00:26:03,000 | 行政機關硬說這是106香港計畫 |
| 00:26:03,000 | 00:26:07,000 | 那請問你們的28億預算 |
| 00:26:07,000 | 00:26:09,000 | 如何包含104億的工程 |
| 00:26:09,000 | 00:26:13,000 | 而且這個真的是拿A計畫 |
| 00:26:13,000 | 00:26:15,000 | A開發計畫來講B開發計畫 |
| 00:26:15,000 | 00:26:17,000 | 想要護航說不要 |
| 00:26:17,000 | 00:26:19,000 | 這個大填海計畫不用環評 |
| 00:26:19,000 | 00:26:23,000 | 我要告訴院長 |
| 00:26:23,000 | 00:26:26,000 | 海委會是在2020年8月30日公告 |
| 00:26:26,000 | 00:26:28,000 | 為白海豚重要棄地 |
| 00:26:28,000 | 00:26:30,000 | 你公布海委會公布 |
| 00:26:30,000 | 00:26:33,000 | 行政院是9月20日才核定 |
| 00:26:33,000 | 00:26:36,000 | 備查106的香港第三次修正計畫 |
| 00:26:36,000 | 00:26:38,000 | 根據香港法條開發行為 |
| 00:26:38,000 | 00:26:39,000 | 應實施環評 |
| 00:26:39,000 | 00:26:41,000 | 計畫認定等等標準第三條 |
| 00:26:41,000 | 00:26:44,000 | 重要棄地就要進行環評 |
| 00:26:44,000 | 00:26:45,000 | 請問卓院長 |
| 00:26:45,000 | 00:26:48,000 | 現在連基本的法定程序都不需要遵守嗎 |
| 00:26:48,000 | 00:26:51,000 | 海委會你還把主管機關 |
| 00:26:51,000 | 00:26:53,000 | 推給台東市政府這樣對嗎 |
| 00:26:53,000 | 00:26:55,000 | 報告委員 |
| 00:26:55,000 | 00:26:57,000 | 白海豚的保育 |
| 00:26:57,000 | 00:26:59,000 | 政府會請全力保育白海豚 |
| 00:26:59,000 | 00:27:01,000 | 這個無庸置疑 |
| 00:27:01,000 | 00:27:03,000 | 至於台中港為了解決這個 |
| 00:27:03,000 | 00:27:05,000 | 建築土石方的問題 |
| 00:27:05,000 | 00:27:07,000 | 它原來的填土方 |
| 00:27:07,000 | 00:27:12,000 | 增加讓各種公民營的案件可以進去 |
| 00:27:12,000 | 00:27:16,000 | 但是它並不動到環評的程序 |
| 00:27:16,000 | 00:27:18,000 | 除非它要做一個大的海堤 |
| 00:27:18,000 | 00:27:21,000 | 那個海堤的討論品是另外一回事 |
| 00:27:21,000 | 00:27:23,000 | 我今天沒有辦法把細節給你 |
| 00:27:23,000 | 00:27:25,000 | 院長很多事情您不會寧願在 |
| 00:27:25,000 | 00:27:26,000 | 您高高在雲東 |
| 00:27:26,000 | 00:27:28,000 | 我都去過台中港看過 |
| 00:27:28,000 | 00:27:30,000 | 我也了解這個程序 |
| 00:27:30,000 | 00:27:33,000 | 目前我們在以保育為優先的狀況底下 |
| 00:27:33,000 | 00:27:34,000 | 來處理這個事情 |
| 00:27:34,000 | 00:27:36,000 | 要求做環評 |
| 00:27:36,000 | 00:27:38,000 | 野生動物在重要棄地審查 |
| 00:27:38,000 | 00:27:39,000 | 這兩個審查 |
| 00:27:39,000 | 00:27:41,000 | 院長您可以買單嗎 |
| 00:27:41,000 | 00:27:43,000 | 我是說能做環評 |
| 00:27:43,000 | 00:27:46,000 | 加上野生動物重要棄地審查 |
| 00:27:46,000 | 00:27:49,000 | 野生動物的保育一直是政府 |
| 00:27:49,000 | 00:27:51,000 | 跟人民一直鼓勵在做的 |
| 00:27:51,000 | 00:27:53,000 | 沒有錯我們願意做 |
| 00:27:53,000 | 00:27:55,000 | 我才會提出願意可以嗎 |
| 00:27:55,000 | 00:27:58,000 | 白海豚我們會用保育富裕的方式 |
| 00:27:58,000 | 00:27:59,000 | 來維護它的生態 |
| 00:27:59,000 | 00:28:01,000 | 現在在這裡的彭部長 |
| 00:28:01,000 | 00:28:03,000 | 這個要做環評 |
| 00:28:03,000 | 00:28:06,000 | 還有野生動物重要棄地審查 |
| 00:28:06,000 | 00:28:10,000 | 院長您就是同意可以做嗎 |
| 00:28:11,000 | 00:28:13,000 | 白海豚保育富裕的工作 |
| 00:28:13,000 | 00:28:15,000 | 政府會把它列為優先來做 |
| 00:28:15,000 | 00:28:17,000 | 這兩件事可以來cover |
| 00:28:17,000 | 00:28:19,000 | 你所謂保護白海豚 |
| 00:28:19,000 | 00:28:21,000 | 一級保育類的東西 |
| 00:28:21,000 | 00:28:23,000 | 台灣難得如此 |
| 00:28:23,000 | 00:28:27,000 | 現在院長您答應了 |
| 00:28:27,000 | 00:28:29,000 | 這兩件事環評加上 |
| 00:28:29,000 | 00:28:31,000 | 我們有很多相關的計畫 |
| 00:28:31,000 | 00:28:33,000 | 都已經在執行當中 |
| 00:28:33,000 | 00:28:35,000 | 院長就是出問題了 |
| 00:28:35,000 | 00:28:37,000 | 我比你比較快 |
| 00:28:37,000 | 00:28:38,000 | 現在我們既然要 |
| 00:28:38,000 | 00:28:39,000 | 您在零端 |
| 00:28:39,000 | 00:28:40,000 | 沒有沒有沒有 |
| 00:28:40,000 | 00:28:41,000 | 我們既然要讓 |
| 00:28:41,000 | 00:28:43,000 | 台中港的功能能夠增加 |
| 00:28:43,000 | 00:28:45,000 | 填海照顧的計畫能夠完成 |
| 00:28:45,000 | 00:28:48,000 | 就必須去面對這些環評生態的問題 |
| 00:28:48,000 | 00:28:50,000 | 該做的事還是做 |
| 00:28:50,000 | 00:28:52,000 | 好謝謝兩位 |
| 00:28:52,000 | 00:28:54,000 | 我再請經濟部公部長 |
| 00:28:54,000 | 00:28:56,000 | 公部長 國民新部長 |
| 00:28:56,000 | 00:28:58,000 | 我們請經濟部長備詢 |
| 00:29:02,000 | 00:29:04,000 | 部長 中游三街已經被 |
| 00:29:04,000 | 00:29:07,000 | 最高行政法院撤銷開發面積 |
| 00:29:07,000 | 00:29:09,000 | 95.4公頃 |
| 00:29:09,000 | 00:29:11,000 | 為什麼沒有停工 |
| 00:29:11,000 | 00:29:13,000 | 報委員那個只是 |
| 00:29:13,000 | 00:29:14,000 | 第一個階段 |
| 00:29:14,000 | 00:29:16,000 | 而且是後面還有兩 |
| 00:29:16,000 | 00:29:19,000 | 後面事實上後面的這個 |
| 00:29:19,000 | 00:29:21,000 | 報的院還有這個程序上來講 |
| 00:29:21,000 | 00:29:23,000 | 已經把前面包起來了 |
| 00:29:23,000 | 00:29:25,000 | 所以後面的這個是程序 |
| 00:29:25,000 | 00:29:26,000 | 還在處理當中 |
| 00:29:26,000 | 00:29:27,000 | 你講的話我也不知道 |
| 00:29:27,000 | 00:29:29,000 | 如果全國人在聽誰聽得懂 |
| 00:29:29,000 | 00:29:31,000 | 經濟部不是要重做一個 |
| 00:29:31,000 | 00:29:32,000 | 新的行政處分嗎 |
| 00:29:32,000 | 00:29:33,000 | 我的了解是這樣 |
| 00:29:33,000 | 00:29:34,000 | 還是說你覺得法院 |
| 00:29:34,000 | 00:29:36,000 | 最高行政法院他的判決 |
| 00:29:36,000 | 00:29:37,000 | 根本不用理呢 |
| 00:29:37,000 | 00:29:38,000 | 不是 |
| 00:29:38,000 | 00:29:40,000 | 因為他是有分階段的 |
| 00:29:40,000 | 00:29:42,000 | 第一階段他只有做一個 |
| 00:29:42,000 | 00:29:43,000 | 比較小的一個入朗 |
| 00:29:43,000 | 00:29:45,000 | 那那個入朗當然行政上 |
| 00:29:45,000 | 00:29:46,000 | 程序上來講 |
| 00:29:46,000 | 00:29:48,000 | 對最高法院有點意見 |
| 00:29:48,000 | 00:29:50,000 | 但是後面的後面報過去的 |
| 00:29:50,000 | 00:29:52,000 | 這個部分已經把這個部分 |
| 00:29:52,000 | 00:29:53,000 | cover進來 |
| 00:29:53,000 | 00:29:55,000 | 你可不可以先停止利用那個 |
| 00:29:55,000 | 00:29:56,000 | 判決設定判決設定 |
| 00:29:56,000 | 00:29:58,000 | 確定部分那個海岸 |
| 00:29:58,000 | 00:30:00,000 | 就判決確定的那個部分 |
| 00:30:00,000 | 00:30:01,000 | 先停止利用他嗎 |
| 00:30:01,000 | 00:30:02,000 | 那事實上 |
| 00:30:02,000 | 00:30:04,000 | 那個部分事實上 |
| 00:30:04,000 | 00:30:06,000 | 我們現在製作的部分 |
| 00:30:06,000 | 00:30:07,000 | 也沒有那個部分 |
| 00:30:07,000 | 00:30:09,000 | 沒有用到那個部分 |
| 00:30:09,000 | 00:30:10,000 | 所以其他的部分 |
| 00:30:10,000 | 00:30:12,000 | 還是在持續進行當中 |
| 00:30:12,000 | 00:30:13,000 | 那你也可以下令停工 |
| 00:30:13,000 | 00:30:15,000 | 不然他已經公告這個 |
| 00:30:15,000 | 00:30:16,000 | 最高行政法院 |
| 00:30:16,000 | 00:30:17,000 | 已經公告這個命令 |
| 00:30:17,000 | 00:30:18,000 | 但我們看不到任何動作 |
| 00:30:18,000 | 00:30:20,000 | 那你想人民怎麼想 |
| 00:30:20,000 | 00:30:21,000 | 沒有因為那個部分來講 |
| 00:30:21,000 | 00:30:22,000 | 我們政府行政機關的 |
| 00:30:22,000 | 00:30:24,000 | 民意代表我們怎麼想 |
| 00:30:24,000 | 00:30:27,000 | 沒有我們還是依這個 |
| 00:30:27,000 | 00:30:29,000 | 當初核定的部分來進行 |
| 00:30:29,000 | 00:30:30,000 | 你的意思是說你會尊重 |
| 00:30:30,000 | 00:30:33,000 | 最高行政法院的裁定 |
| 00:30:33,000 | 00:30:37,000 | 不是 最高行政法院的判決的那個範圍 |
| 00:30:46,000 | 00:30:47,000 | 對 是真的 |
| 00:30:47,000 | 00:30:49,000 | 我知道你寓意 |
| 00:30:49,000 | 00:30:50,000 | 謝謝 謝謝陳委員 |
| 00:30:50,000 | 00:30:51,000 | 謝謝陳召政委員 |
| 00:30:51,000 | 00:30:52,000 | 謝謝卓院長 |
| 00:30:52,000 | 00:30:54,000 | 跟相關部會首長背景 謝謝 |