iVOD / 170952
本逐字稿內容由 AI 自動生成，可能包含錯誤、遺漏或誤譯之處。請使用者務必與原始影片音訊內容交叉比對，以確保資訊正確性。另可參考立法院日後釋出的正式公報以取得最終權威版本。
葉元之 @ 第11屆第5會期內政委員會第23次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:09,500 | 主席好 麻煩請部長 內政部長 謝謝 |
| 00:00:09,500 | 00:00:12,500 | 部長好 我想跟您請教一下 |
| 00:00:12,500 | 00:00:16,000 | 就是其實大家還是希望能夠直接興建社會住宅 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:21,000 | 那時候賴總統他在選舉的時候提到一個政見 |
| 00:00:21,000 | 00:00:25,500 | 他是延續著蔡英文總統的基礎 |
| 00:00:25,500 | 00:00:28,500 | 但是那時候蔡英文總統他訂的社會住宅目標 |
| 00:00:28,500 | 00:00:31,500 | 他訂20萬戶 他是12萬戶直接興建 |
| 00:00:31,500 | 00:00:34,500 | 加上8萬戶的租金補貼 20萬戶 |
| 00:00:34,500 | 00:00:39,500 | 其實就已經受到大家很多質疑 |
| 00:00:39,500 | 00:00:43,500 | 因為大家期待是完工 甚至於是已經發包出去的 |
| 00:00:43,500 | 00:00:47,500 | 可是其實賴總統那時候他算那12萬戶 |
| 00:00:47,500 | 00:00:50,500 | 已經把很多什麼規劃中 招標中 |
| 00:00:50,500 | 00:00:54,500 | 類似這樣子就是還看不到的拿進來計算 |
| 00:00:54,500 | 00:00:57,500 | 所以有一個就是到底蔡英文總統有沒有跳票的爭議 |
| 00:00:57,500 | 00:00:59,500 | 那時候背景是這樣 |
| 00:00:59,500 | 00:01:03,500 | 所以當賴清德總統又推出一個要直接興建13萬戶的 |
| 00:01:03,500 | 00:01:07,500 | 然後要含包租代管加上租補貼100萬戶這樣計畫的時候 |
| 00:01:07,500 | 00:01:09,500 | 其實那個時候很多人提出質疑 |
| 00:01:09,500 | 00:01:11,500 | 覺得這是不是又是一個芭樂票 |
| 00:01:11,500 | 00:01:12,500 | 是不是又是隨便含含 |
| 00:01:12,500 | 00:01:15,500 | 我不知道那個部長您當時是立委啦 |
| 00:01:15,500 | 00:01:17,500 | 應該也有記得這個過程 |
| 00:01:17,500 | 00:01:21,500 | 結果那時候賴清德總統 那時候是副總統說 |
| 00:01:21,500 | 00:01:23,500 | 不會發生這個狀況 一定會很努力把它達成 |
| 00:01:23,500 | 00:01:27,500 | 結果沒有想到才上任兩年就大轉彎 |
| 00:01:27,500 | 00:01:30,500 | 直接興建13萬戶 直接縮水變3萬戶 |
| 00:01:30,500 | 00:01:35,500 | 其中3萬戶裡面還有2.5萬戶是蔡英文總統當時規劃的 |
| 00:01:35,500 | 00:01:39,500 | 那代表當時他在規劃這個政見的時候 |
| 00:01:39,500 | 00:01:43,500 | 就沒有很認真很仔細去思考說到底能不能做到 |
| 00:01:43,500 | 00:01:45,500 | 那我覺得這樣國會失望 |
| 00:01:45,500 | 00:01:47,500 | 國會覺得說對你期望這麼高 |
| 00:01:47,500 | 00:01:49,500 | 很多人可能也是因為這樣投票給他 |
| 00:01:49,500 | 00:01:52,500 | 只有兩年之後就自己就宣布跳票 |
| 00:01:52,500 | 00:01:54,500 | 那到底為什麼會這樣 |
| 00:01:54,500 | 00:01:57,500 | 報告委員蔡總統並沒有跳票 |
| 00:01:57,500 | 00:01:59,500 | 但是我要跟委員講到 |
| 00:01:59,500 | 00:02:02,500 | 蓋房子真的不是一朝一夕就可以完成 |
| 00:02:02,500 | 00:02:04,500 | 這個我都知道 |
| 00:02:04,500 | 00:02:06,500 | 我是說既然這麼困難 |
| 00:02:06,500 | 00:02:09,500 | 為什麼他會提出這樣的一個目標 |
| 00:02:09,500 | 00:02:13,500 | 他也可以講說蓋房子沒有那麼容易 |
| 00:02:13,500 | 00:02:16,500 | 所以蔡總統很努力的盡量完成 |
| 00:02:16,500 | 00:02:18,500 | 那我們就增加多少 |
| 00:02:18,500 | 00:02:20,500 | 你可以這樣子講保守一點 |
| 00:02:20,500 | 00:02:21,500 | 可是沒有 |
| 00:02:21,500 | 00:02:24,500 | 開支票的時候都講得很厲害 |
| 00:02:24,500 | 00:02:26,500 | 然後結果要執行的時候就說沒那麼容易 |
| 00:02:26,500 | 00:02:27,500 | 所以我們縮水 |
| 00:02:27,500 | 00:02:30,500 | 我覺得大家慢慢就會講的話我們就不會信了 |
| 00:02:30,500 | 00:02:32,500 | 就是政府官員講的話大家就慢慢就不信 |
| 00:02:32,500 | 00:02:35,500 | 會不會兩年後又時空環境變了 |
| 00:02:35,500 | 00:02:36,500 | 又有什麼狀況 |
| 00:02:36,500 | 00:02:38,500 | 導致於之前講的又不算話 |
| 00:02:38,500 | 00:02:41,500 | 我想您對社會住宅的關心我們也都了解 |
| 00:02:41,500 | 00:02:44,500 | 但是我還是一再跟委員報告說 |
| 00:02:44,500 | 00:02:47,500 | 13萬戶的目標真的沒有改變 |
| 00:02:47,500 | 00:02:49,500 | 改變的部分就是社會住宅的直接興建 |
| 00:02:49,500 | 00:02:51,500 | 我們改成是公務機關 |
| 00:02:51,500 | 00:02:52,500 | 我們講就是直接興建 |
| 00:02:52,500 | 00:02:53,500 | 不然我們不要玩文字遊戲 |
| 00:02:53,500 | 00:02:54,500 | 那時候講得很清楚 |
| 00:02:54,500 | 00:02:56,500 | 直接興建13萬戶 |
| 00:02:56,500 | 00:02:58,500 | 你現在講的是公務機關 |
| 00:02:58,500 | 00:03:00,500 | 公務機關包括中央跟地方 |
| 00:03:00,500 | 00:03:03,500 | 那蔡總統講的當然是中央機關 |
| 00:03:03,500 | 00:03:05,500 | 你怎麼會把地方算進來 |
| 00:03:05,500 | 00:03:07,500 | 地方是要看地方政府的努力 |
| 00:03:07,500 | 00:03:10,500 | 沒有啦他講的是中央加地方 |
| 00:03:10,500 | 00:03:13,500 | 他是總統他可以管得到地方政府 |
| 00:03:13,500 | 00:03:15,500 | 這還把責任甩給地方政府 |
| 00:03:15,500 | 00:03:17,500 | 沒關係啦你們因為這已經是政策 |
| 00:03:17,500 | 00:03:20,500 | 我希望說你們還是盡量要努力 |
| 00:03:20,500 | 00:03:22,500 | 不要找一個藝由藉口就是說 |
| 00:03:22,500 | 00:03:24,500 | 因為很困難所以我就不做 |
| 00:03:24,500 | 00:03:25,500 | 我覺得還是要 |
| 00:03:25,500 | 00:03:26,500 | 我完全接受所以我們會非常努力 |
| 00:03:26,500 | 00:03:27,500 | 我覺得還是要 |
| 00:03:27,500 | 00:03:30,500 | 不然國人真的會越來越失望 |
| 00:03:30,500 | 00:03:32,500 | 那我現在跟您請教個問題 |
| 00:03:32,500 | 00:03:34,500 | 因為那時候您是講說 |
| 00:03:34,500 | 00:03:36,500 | 為什麼會有這樣的改變 |
| 00:03:36,500 | 00:03:38,500 | 主要是至少我在新聞上面看到 |
| 00:03:38,500 | 00:03:39,500 | 是有兩個原因 |
| 00:03:39,500 | 00:03:42,500 | 一個原因是你說現在社會變遷了 |
| 00:03:42,500 | 00:03:44,500 | 社會變遷真的萬用的答案 |
| 00:03:44,500 | 00:03:45,500 | 時空環境變了 |
| 00:03:45,500 | 00:03:47,500 | 第二個您是講說 |
| 00:03:47,500 | 00:03:50,500 | 社宅會不會變成另外一種空餘屋 |
| 00:03:50,500 | 00:03:51,500 | 這句話什麼意思 |
| 00:03:51,500 | 00:03:53,500 | 可不可以請您進一步說明一下 |
| 00:03:53,500 | 00:03:55,500 | 報告委員在過去一段時間以來 |
| 00:03:55,500 | 00:03:57,500 | 我們知道說要蓋這個社會住宅 |
| 00:03:57,500 | 00:03:59,500 | 當然現在量還沒有衝出來 |
| 00:03:59,500 | 00:04:02,500 | 那在蔡總統任內到賴總統的時候 |
| 00:04:02,500 | 00:04:04,500 | 全台灣的22個縣市都有社宅 |
| 00:04:04,500 | 00:04:07,500 | 那現在社宅陸陸續續完工之後 |
| 00:04:07,500 | 00:04:09,500 | 我們要考慮的不是所謂的 |
| 00:04:09,500 | 00:04:10,500 | 講了這個社會變遷 |
| 00:04:10,500 | 00:04:13,500 | 而是哪個地方的人 |
| 00:04:13,500 | 00:04:16,500 | 哪個地方的身分的人比較需要社會住宅 |
| 00:04:16,500 | 00:04:18,500 | 那我們後來發現到說 |
| 00:04:18,500 | 00:04:20,500 | 包括我們從租金補貼裡面做分析 |
| 00:04:20,500 | 00:04:24,500 | 覺得在北北桃中這樣的一個蛋黃區域裡面 |
| 00:04:24,500 | 00:04:26,500 | 需要社會住宅的比例會比較高 |
| 00:04:26,500 | 00:04:30,500 | 那所以很多偏鄉非常偏遠地區的偏鄉 |
| 00:04:30,500 | 00:04:32,500 | 我們如果為了只要有空地 |
| 00:04:32,500 | 00:04:34,500 | 盤整出來的空地不在 |
| 00:04:34,500 | 00:04:36,500 | 然後到時候變成沒有人去 |
| 00:04:36,500 | 00:04:37,500 | 那個就是所謂的空屋 |
| 00:04:37,500 | 00:04:38,500 | 謝謝部長說明 |
| 00:04:38,500 | 00:04:41,500 | 所以您講的空餘屋其實您是擔心說 |
| 00:04:41,500 | 00:04:43,500 | 全台灣有一些縣市 |
| 00:04:43,500 | 00:04:46,500 | 縣市偏鄉地區如果蓋太多的話會有空餘屋 |
| 00:04:46,500 | 00:04:47,500 | 應該是這個意思嘛 |
| 00:04:47,500 | 00:04:49,500 | 那如果是這樣的話其實 |
| 00:04:49,500 | 00:04:51,500 | 我認為你應該可以增加 |
| 00:04:51,500 | 00:04:54,500 | 就是你把資源放在人口比較密集 |
| 00:04:54,500 | 00:04:55,500 | 需求量比較大的地方 |
| 00:04:55,500 | 00:04:57,500 | 對應該要這樣子 |
| 00:04:57,500 | 00:04:59,500 | 所以不要講說有空餘屋 |
| 00:04:59,500 | 00:05:01,500 | 我覺得你還是可以朝向那個目標 |
| 00:05:01,500 | 00:05:02,500 | 就是你講的十三萬戶 |
| 00:05:02,500 | 00:05:04,500 | 只是說你做一些調整 |
| 00:05:04,500 | 00:05:07,500 | 我希望我們可以了解我們所講的部分的前言後語 |
| 00:05:07,500 | 00:05:09,500 | 對對對我說你可以做一些調整 |
| 00:05:09,500 | 00:05:11,500 | 例如說你本來有一些資源要放在 |
| 00:05:11,500 | 00:05:13,500 | 南部或偏鄉 |
| 00:05:13,500 | 00:05:15,500 | 但是你後來發現這樣蓋下去會有空餘屋 |
| 00:05:15,500 | 00:05:17,500 | 你可以把這個資源就挪移到 |
| 00:05:17,500 | 00:05:19,500 | 比如說你覺得比較需要的地方 |
| 00:05:19,500 | 00:05:21,500 | 舉例來講像新北市我認為很需要 |
| 00:05:21,500 | 00:05:23,500 | 因為新北市就我了解 |
| 00:05:23,500 | 00:05:25,500 | 社會住宅的重遷率大概有10%的 |
| 00:05:25,500 | 00:05:27,500 | 然後好一點的是30% |
| 00:05:27,500 | 00:05:29,500 | 所以你如果在新北市蓋的話 |
| 00:05:29,500 | 00:05:31,500 | 把資源移過來 |
| 00:05:31,500 | 00:05:33,500 | 我覺得你同時可以達到你要的目標 |
| 00:05:33,500 | 00:05:35,500 | 十三萬戶 |
| 00:05:35,500 | 00:05:37,500 | 這是一個很好的方向 |
| 00:05:37,500 | 00:05:39,500 | 對對對 |
| 00:05:39,500 | 00:05:41,500 | 你忽然講空餘屋大家會覺得說 |
| 00:05:41,500 | 00:05:43,500 | 蛤?我們那邊就沒有這個問題嘛 |
| 00:05:43,500 | 00:05:45,500 | 所以我有特別提到 |
| 00:05:45,500 | 00:05:47,500 | 我有特別提到他要稀缺土地 |
| 00:05:47,500 | 00:05:49,500 | 然後因為北北逃中的稀缺土地 |
| 00:05:49,500 | 00:05:51,500 | 真的非常的多 |
| 00:05:51,500 | 00:05:53,500 | 所以我們才希望用整開 |
| 00:05:53,500 | 00:05:55,500 | 因為我知道國土署也都有盤點很多 |
| 00:05:55,500 | 00:05:57,500 | 在這個北北基 |
| 00:05:57,500 | 00:05:59,500 | 你說北北基逃嘛是不是 |
| 00:05:59,500 | 00:06:01,500 | 保養逃中就是有比較多 |
| 00:06:01,500 | 00:06:03,500 | 你沒有土地盤整啦 |
| 00:06:03,500 | 00:06:05,500 | 那你把資源移過來 |
| 00:06:05,500 | 00:06:07,500 | 就不會在其他地方造成空餘屋 |
| 00:06:07,500 | 00:06:09,500 | 然後又可以達到你們要蓋 |
| 00:06:09,500 | 00:06:11,500 | 社會住宅直接興建目標 |
| 00:06:11,500 | 00:06:13,500 | 我是覺得可以 |
| 00:06:13,500 | 00:06:15,500 | 朝這個方向然後第二個好我跟 |
| 00:06:15,500 | 00:06:17,500 | 部長請教一下 |
| 00:06:17,500 | 00:06:19,500 | 現在中央因為國土署 |
| 00:06:19,500 | 00:06:21,500 | 都會公布每個月 |
| 00:06:21,500 | 00:06:23,500 | 都會公布新辦進度 |
| 00:06:23,500 | 00:06:25,500 | 那 |
| 00:06:25,500 | 00:06:27,500 | 我的數字就會調整我不知道為什麼 |
| 00:06:27,500 | 00:06:29,500 | 譬如說我們看2026年 |
| 00:06:29,500 | 00:06:31,500 | 7月我先看2026年4月30號 |
| 00:06:31,500 | 00:06:33,500 | 規劃中因為規劃中 |
| 00:06:33,500 | 00:06:35,500 | 到底規劃哪裡我希望 |
| 00:06:35,500 | 00:06:37,500 | 今天會後國土署 |
| 00:06:37,500 | 00:06:39,500 | 可以給我一份比較詳細的報告 |
| 00:06:39,500 | 00:06:41,500 | 譬如說以新北市來說 |
| 00:06:41,500 | 00:06:43,500 | 中央的部分規劃中是 |
| 00:06:43,500 | 00:06:45,500 | 8,375戶 |
| 00:06:45,500 | 00:06:47,500 | 這是2026年4月30號的 |
| 00:06:47,500 | 00:06:49,500 | 數字但是到了 |
| 00:06:49,500 | 00:06:51,500 | 2026年7月31號 |
| 00:06:51,500 | 00:06:53,500 | 新北市中央規劃中 |
| 00:06:53,500 | 00:06:55,500 | 的數字變成 |
| 00:06:55,500 | 00:06:57,500 | 7078戶 |
| 00:06:57,500 | 00:06:59,500 | 就少了1200多戶 |
| 00:06:59,500 | 00:07:01,500 | 那我不知道為什麼忽然間少 |
| 00:07:01,500 | 00:07:03,500 | 規劃中為什麼忽然規劃中 |
| 00:07:03,500 | 00:07:05,500 | 又不做了不做了還是怎麼樣 |
| 00:07:05,500 | 00:07:07,500 | 那是遇到什麼困難 |
| 00:07:07,500 | 00:07:09,500 | 是遇到什麼困難 |
| 00:07:09,500 | 00:07:11,500 | 還是說因為反正都已經 |
| 00:07:11,500 | 00:07:13,500 | 講了我們現在13萬戶要直接 |
| 00:07:13,500 | 00:07:15,500 | 變成3萬戶目標 |
| 00:07:15,500 | 00:07:17,500 | 沒那麼遠大了所以我也沒那麼積極 |
| 00:07:17,500 | 00:07:19,500 | 了是什麼原因 |
| 00:07:19,500 | 00:07:21,500 | 是什麼原因跟我們報告 |
| 00:07:21,500 | 00:07:23,500 | 其實這個一些 |
| 00:07:23,500 | 00:07:25,500 | 社宅的一個量我們固定跟縣市 |
| 00:07:25,500 | 00:07:27,500 | 政府都有一個會議在召開 |
| 00:07:27,500 | 00:07:29,500 | 那有些是中央的部分 |
| 00:07:29,500 | 00:07:31,500 | 你就回答我的問題就好 |
| 00:07:31,500 | 00:07:33,500 | 不要什麼都扯到地方 |
| 00:07:33,500 | 00:07:35,500 | 中央的部分其實中央的 |
| 00:07:35,500 | 00:07:37,500 | 一些用地的部分涉及到一些 |
| 00:07:37,500 | 00:07:39,500 | 相關的問題對對我現在就問你 |
| 00:07:39,500 | 00:07:41,500 | 所以你也會知道回答我問題就好了 |
| 00:07:41,500 | 00:07:43,500 | 那有時候這些機關他對那些原來 |
| 00:07:43,500 | 00:07:45,500 | 庫存的這個土地他有需求 |
| 00:07:45,500 | 00:07:47,500 | 那會就因為這樣 |
| 00:07:47,500 | 00:07:49,500 | 你現在講的是可能狀況 |
| 00:07:49,500 | 00:07:51,500 | 我現在問你的是具體狀況就是新北市 |
| 00:07:51,500 | 00:07:53,500 | 規劃中4月 |
| 00:07:53,500 | 00:07:55,500 | 有8000多戶到7月 |
| 00:07:55,500 | 00:07:57,500 | 剩7000戶少了 |
| 00:07:57,500 | 00:07:59,500 | 7000戶什麼原因 |
| 00:07:59,500 | 00:08:01,500 | 這是具體的問題不用跟我講原則的東西 |
| 00:08:01,500 | 00:08:03,500 | 我們再查一下 |
| 00:08:03,500 | 00:08:05,500 | 那沒關係你現在答不出來 |
| 00:08:05,500 | 00:08:07,500 | 我就說我剛說會後你提供給我 |
| 00:08:07,500 | 00:08:09,500 | 但是不要說 |
| 00:08:09,500 | 00:08:11,500 | 你不知道答案就在那邊亂扯 |
| 00:08:11,500 | 00:08:13,500 | 說這搞不好是地方政府的問題 |
| 00:08:13,500 | 00:08:15,500 | 亂扯這幹嘛這浪費大家時間 |
| 00:08:15,500 | 00:08:17,500 | 因為我想了解一下 |
| 00:08:17,500 | 00:08:19,500 | 是不是因為目標減少 |
| 00:08:19,500 | 00:08:21,500 | 之後你們就沒那麼積極 |
| 00:08:21,500 | 00:08:23,500 | 我想了解這件事你就告訴我 |
| 00:08:23,500 | 00:08:25,500 | 為什麼要減少 |
| 00:08:25,500 | 00:08:27,500 | 然後盡量公開透明 |
| 00:08:27,500 | 00:08:29,500 | 大家往興建的方向去做 |
| 00:08:29,500 | 00:08:31,500 | 然後再來跟部長請教一下 |
| 00:08:31,500 | 00:08:33,500 | 一個簡單的問題因為 |
| 00:08:33,500 | 00:08:35,500 | 除了新建社會住宅還有包租代管 |
| 00:08:35,500 | 00:08:37,500 | 因為最近不是有發生問題 |
| 00:08:37,500 | 00:08:39,500 | 那大家就發現說 |
| 00:08:39,500 | 00:08:41,500 | 這樣一個商業模式可能需要檢討 |
| 00:08:41,500 | 00:08:43,500 | 因為像發生問題那家公司 |
| 00:08:43,500 | 00:08:45,500 | 其實很多錢是在他那邊 |
| 00:08:45,500 | 00:08:47,500 | 房東的就是要給房東的錢 |
| 00:08:47,500 | 00:08:49,500 | 是在他那邊就從房客那邊收過來的 |
| 00:08:49,500 | 00:08:51,500 | 還有房客的押金也在他那邊 |
| 00:08:51,500 | 00:08:53,500 | 所以他一旦發生財務問題的時候 |
| 00:08:53,500 | 00:08:55,500 | 萬一我們沒有一個好的保障機制 |
| 00:08:55,500 | 00:08:57,500 | 搞不好房東會拿不到錢 |
| 00:08:57,500 | 00:08:59,500 | 搞不好房客的押金會拿不回來 |
| 00:08:59,500 | 00:09:01,500 | 所以我想問說 |
| 00:09:01,500 | 00:09:03,500 | 現在有沒有出現像房東 |
| 00:09:03,500 | 00:09:05,500 | 的錢拿不到的狀況有沒有 |
| 00:09:05,500 | 00:09:07,500 | 有沒有 |
| 00:09:07,500 | 00:09:09,500 | 目前都沒有 |
| 00:09:09,500 | 00:09:11,500 | 會不會有 |
| 00:09:11,500 | 00:09:13,500 | 現階段看起來 |
| 00:09:13,500 | 00:09:15,500 | 應該可以穩得住 |
| 00:09:15,500 | 00:09:17,500 | 我們盡可能把這個部分穩住 |
| 00:09:17,500 | 00:09:19,500 | 盡可能穩住什麼意思 |
| 00:09:19,500 | 00:09:21,500 | 如果他到時候財務狀況 |
| 00:09:21,500 | 00:09:23,500 | 然後他後面就不處理 |
| 00:09:23,500 | 00:09:25,500 | 那你說 |
| 00:09:25,500 | 00:09:27,500 | 這基於現階段而言 |
| 00:09:27,500 | 00:09:29,500 | 現在我們把他手上的案子 |
| 00:09:29,500 | 00:09:31,500 | 盡量在一個月之內 |
| 00:09:31,500 | 00:09:33,500 | 把他轉到其他的 |
| 00:09:33,500 | 00:09:35,500 | 業者的服務手上 |
| 00:09:35,500 | 00:09:37,500 | 那其實這個部分又重新接上 |
| 00:09:37,500 | 00:09:39,500 | 就不會有這個問題了 |
| 00:09:39,500 | 00:09:41,500 | 那照理說 |
| 00:09:41,500 | 00:09:43,500 | 現在公司也正在重新整頓 |
| 00:09:43,500 | 00:09:45,500 | 我們當然希望他穩下來 |
| 00:09:45,500 | 00:09:47,500 | 那另外從實質面的角度來看 |
| 00:09:47,500 | 00:09:49,500 | 是 |
| 00:09:49,500 | 00:09:51,500 | 一個問題一個問題來了 |
| 00:09:51,500 | 00:09:53,500 | 第一個你可以確定就是 |
| 00:09:53,500 | 00:09:55,500 | 所有房東都收到錢了 |
| 00:09:55,500 | 00:09:57,500 | 不會有房東收不到錢的狀況 |
| 00:09:57,500 | 00:09:59,500 | 我不能說百分之百 |
| 00:09:59,500 | 00:10:01,500 | 現在也沒有發生到 |
| 00:10:01,500 | 00:10:03,500 | 剛剛你有回答沒發生過 |
| 00:10:03,500 | 00:10:05,500 | 預期接下來 |
| 00:10:05,500 | 00:10:07,500 | 除非出現了我們預料之外的 |
| 00:10:07,500 | 00:10:09,500 | 一些狀況但是本質上 |
| 00:10:09,500 | 00:10:11,500 | 有朝現在的方向 |
| 00:10:11,500 | 00:10:13,500 | 我們還是可以相對樂觀 |
| 00:10:13,500 | 00:10:15,500 | 來看待說 |
| 00:10:15,500 | 00:10:17,500 | 根據什麼 |
| 00:10:17,500 | 00:10:19,500 | 待管案其實是房東和房客之間的關係 |
| 00:10:19,500 | 00:10:21,500 | 業者完全沒有碰到 |
| 00:10:21,500 | 00:10:23,500 | 那一筆租金 |
| 00:10:23,500 | 00:10:25,500 | 所以那個部分本質上不會有問題 |
| 00:10:25,500 | 00:10:27,500 | 那是包租的這個部分 |
| 00:10:27,500 | 00:10:29,500 | 包租的部分 |
| 00:10:29,500 | 00:10:31,500 | 那押金的部分 |
| 00:10:31,500 | 00:10:33,500 | 押金其實也是一樣 |
| 00:10:33,500 | 00:10:35,500 | 待管案也是房東直接拿 |
| 00:10:35,500 | 00:10:37,500 | 房客的押金 |
| 00:10:37,500 | 00:10:39,500 | 業者也不會碰那個押金 |
| 00:10:39,500 | 00:10:41,500 | 那業者主要會碰到什麼 |
| 00:10:41,500 | 00:10:43,500 | 包租案 |
| 00:10:43,500 | 00:10:45,500 | 我講就是包租案 |
| 00:10:45,500 | 00:10:47,500 | 那會有業者 |
| 00:10:47,500 | 00:10:49,500 | 付押金給原房東 |
| 00:10:49,500 | 00:10:51,500 | 房客再付押金給業者 |
| 00:10:51,500 | 00:10:53,500 | 這是兩份租約 |
| 00:10:53,500 | 00:10:55,500 | 我講就是這個 |
| 00:10:55,500 | 00:10:57,500 | 那現在這兩筆錢其實是 |
| 00:10:57,500 | 00:10:59,500 | 一樣大的 |
| 00:10:59,500 | 00:11:01,500 | 所以說一旦業者把押金 |
| 00:11:01,500 | 00:11:03,500 | 還給業者房東就有 |
| 00:11:03,500 | 00:11:05,500 | 那筆錢可以還給房客 |
| 00:11:05,500 | 00:11:07,500 | 那目前這筆錢 |
| 00:11:07,500 | 00:11:09,500 | 也不在業者手上 |
| 00:11:09,500 | 00:11:11,500 | 因為那筆錢是 |
| 00:11:11,500 | 00:11:13,500 | 房客拿給業者業者又拿給房東 |
| 00:11:13,500 | 00:11:15,500 | 所以還是在房東身上 |
| 00:11:15,500 | 00:11:17,500 | 那是因為時間 |
| 00:11:17,500 | 00:11:19,500 | 會有一個時間差 |
| 00:11:19,500 | 00:11:21,500 | 剛好有給的話就沒這個問題 |
| 00:11:21,500 | 00:11:23,500 | 所以第一個就是說 |
| 00:11:23,500 | 00:11:25,500 | 你是說 |
| 00:11:25,500 | 00:11:27,500 | 現在瞭解沒有發生狀況 |
| 00:11:27,500 | 00:11:29,500 | 至少房東房客權益不會受損 |
| 00:11:29,500 | 00:11:31,500 | 第二個就是從這個個案 |
| 00:11:31,500 | 00:11:33,500 | 你可以瞭解到這個模式有一個風險 |
| 00:11:33,500 | 00:11:35,500 | 那這家公司 |
| 00:11:35,500 | 00:11:37,500 | 他可以做這個生意其實因為配合 |
| 00:11:37,500 | 00:11:39,500 | 政府的政策才有辦法做這個生意 |
| 00:11:39,500 | 00:11:41,500 | 那政府當然有責任保障房東房客的權益 |
| 00:11:41,500 | 00:11:43,500 | 所以你們應該會針對這個 |
| 00:11:43,500 | 00:11:45,500 | 個案 |
| 00:11:45,500 | 00:11:47,500 | 然後去找到這個商業模式的一個漏洞的修補 |
| 00:11:47,500 | 00:11:49,500 | 那現在什麼時候會提出來 |
| 00:11:49,500 | 00:11:51,500 | 我想我們會跟部裡面 |
| 00:11:51,500 | 00:11:53,500 | 跟業界一起來 |
| 00:11:53,500 | 00:11:55,500 | 再精進 |
| 00:11:55,500 | 00:11:57,500 | 因為這裡面有各種角度 |
| 00:11:57,500 | 00:11:59,500 | 你們大概預計什麼時候會 |
| 00:11:59,500 | 00:12:01,500 | 這個部位屬於政策的部位 |
| 00:12:01,500 | 00:12:03,500 | 現在都已經發生這樣的事情 |
| 00:12:03,500 | 00:12:05,500 | 然後我問你說你們有沒有警戒 |
| 00:12:05,500 | 00:12:07,500 | 然後我問你時針表你說不知道 |
| 00:12:07,500 | 00:12:09,500 | 因為大家覺得好像你沒有很當意 |
| 00:12:09,500 | 00:12:11,500 | 那是安定產業 |
| 00:12:11,500 | 00:12:13,500 | 指示一下 |
| 00:12:13,500 | 00:12:15,500 | 報告委員 |
| 00:12:15,500 | 00:12:17,500 | 因為那個住宅中心是行政法人 |
| 00:12:17,500 | 00:12:19,500 | 那您提到的說以後未必 |
| 00:12:19,500 | 00:12:21,500 | 要怎麼防避的部分 |
| 00:12:21,500 | 00:12:23,500 | 就是我們現在的租賃的 |
| 00:12:23,500 | 00:12:25,500 | 租屋服務業這個部分 |
| 00:12:25,500 | 00:12:27,500 | 我們會來做比較好的修正 |
| 00:12:27,500 | 00:12:29,500 | 我知道大概什麼時間表 |
| 00:12:29,500 | 00:12:31,500 | 講一個大概的時間表 |
| 00:12:31,500 | 00:12:33,500 | 跟委員報告一下 |
| 00:12:33,500 | 00:12:35,500 | 因為我們現在也在收集國外的一些資料 |
| 00:12:35,500 | 00:12:37,500 | 跟一些相關的建議 |
| 00:12:37,500 | 00:12:39,500 | 有些國家是用專戶管理 |
| 00:12:39,500 | 00:12:41,500 | 就是押租金跟去用薪托 |
| 00:12:41,500 | 00:12:43,500 | 我相信你們過程會很認真 |
| 00:12:43,500 | 00:12:45,500 | 我直接問一個時間表 |
| 00:12:45,500 | 00:12:47,500 | 我相信這個過程你們都會做 |
| 00:12:47,500 | 00:12:49,500 | 發生這麼大的事情 |
| 00:12:49,500 | 00:12:51,500 | 我也不覺得內政部 |
| 00:12:51,500 | 00:12:53,500 | 或租中心會完全自知不理 |
| 00:12:53,500 | 00:12:55,500 | 但是就講一個時間表 |
| 00:12:55,500 | 00:12:57,500 | 我們大概預計 |
| 00:12:57,500 | 00:12:59,500 | 在三個月之內先找 |
| 00:12:59,500 | 00:13:01,500 | 一些專家學者 |
| 00:13:01,500 | 00:13:03,500 | 三個月才要找專家學者 |
| 00:13:03,500 | 00:13:05,500 | 我以為三個月會有個結論出來 |
| 00:13:05,500 | 00:13:07,500 | 報告委員這樣子 |
| 00:13:07,500 | 00:13:09,500 | 我們不涉及修法的狀況之下 |
| 00:13:09,500 | 00:13:11,500 | 因為修法還是比較人潮 |
| 00:13:11,500 | 00:13:13,500 | 不涉及修法的狀況之下 |
| 00:13:13,500 | 00:13:15,500 | 如果有授權的執法或規定的話 |
| 00:13:15,500 | 00:13:17,500 | 我們一個月會針對造機跟積極學者 |
| 00:13:17,500 | 00:13:19,500 | 發生的狀況把漏洞先回起來 |
| 00:13:19,500 | 00:13:21,500 | 好謝謝部長 |