iVOD / 170947
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劉書彬 @ 第11屆第5會期內政委員會第23次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:15,000 | 好 |
| 00:00:15,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 謝謝主席 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:23,000 | 有請內政部的部長 |
| 00:00:23,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 好 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:25,000 | 部長好 |
| 00:00:25,000 | 00:00:27,000 | 那總統在選前 |
| 00:00:27,000 | 00:00:29,000 | 他已經提出 |
| 00:00:29,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 就信誓旦旦的表示 |
| 00:00:31,000 | 00:00:32,000 | 國家希望工程當中 |
| 00:00:32,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 承諾要新增13萬戶的社會住宅 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 那但是根據你們最新的計畫 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:41,000 | 這個13萬戶的目標 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 到現在被砍到只剩下3萬戶 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 那這3萬戶裡面 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:47,000 | 還有2.5萬戶 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 是蔡政府時期延續的規劃 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 那真正要去新增的 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 到117年開始每年就只有1000戶 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 那承諾13萬戶 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 現在變3萬戶 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 是不是政策太飄飄 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 謝謝委員關心賴總統的政見 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:07,000 | 我們在多次跟委員報告的時候 |
| 00:01:07,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 都有提到13萬戶的目標沒有變 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:12,000 | 但是直接興建改成多元興辦 |
| 00:01:12,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 那包括我們可能榮獎的部分 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 希望能夠民間的業者也一起加入 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 包括都更分回等等這些 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 所以還是跟委員報告 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 你現在所說的這個3萬戶的部分 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 是我們現階段第一階段 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 要完成的3萬戶 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 這個是沒有問題 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 因為這跟地方政府已經都盤點好了 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 那未來的10萬戶的部分的話 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 我們會一定持續的努力 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 希望在時間內可以達成這個目標 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 好那我知道你們有包括多元的 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 這樣子的房屋政策 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 那請問一下 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 因為這就要是包括包租代管 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 跟租金補貼 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 那在這個部分的時候 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 我想要問的是這個部分的 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 這部分的租金的房價 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 租金的這個指數上面 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 你們有沒有去做調查 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 有 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 我們當然有做調查 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 才能訂定租金的這個分級 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 對那你們調查的結果是 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 我是不是請我們地政司長 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 跟您報告一下好不好 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 好 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 來 |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 報告委員 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 那個我們每半年都會透過 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 我們現在的一個租金補貼的資料 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:19,000 | 那像上一期的部分的話 |
| 00:02:19,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 每半年都會公布一個 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 租金的一個統計分析 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 上一期的趨勢吧 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 不是那個統計他的那個 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 中位數的一個情況 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 每個行政區的中位數的情況 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 好 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 那個每半年發布 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 像上一期的就用70萬筆的 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 租金補貼的資料來做統計 |
| 00:02:37,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 你們我看到的內政部自己 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 在7月的報告當中 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 是上揚的趨勢啦 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 這整體是上揚的趨勢 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 沒有沒有那個 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 這一 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 115年上半年的 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 現在應該會在近期會公布 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 那我們從我們 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 過去幾期的調查資料 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 其實整個租金的水準都是平穩的 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 好謝謝 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 那我請問內政部長 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 因為你剛才在回答 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 吳其民委員的時候 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 你也提到說 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 現在的社會住宅的量 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 要夠的話 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 才能夠達到 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 讓這樣的租金的房價 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:11,000 | 才會降下來嗎 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 這部分 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 那可是根本你在提到是 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 那這個剛才的 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 就是8年之內在 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 8年之內的這個13萬的 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 社會住宅的量 |
| 00:03:20,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 還是確定 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 但是你們就不知道 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:23,000 | 什麼時候 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 是委員我想 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 我我我我再把你 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 您提的問題 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 我們再重新講一次 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 第一個就是13萬戶的目標 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 沒有改變 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 是在8年之內嗎 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 那原來的直接興辦 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 我們現在改成多元興辦 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 那同時呢 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 我們在去年所修的 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 那重複說了 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 不是 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 就是你那請問你們 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 那個後面的 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:44,000 | 那個十萬 |
| 00:03:44,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 是要什麼時候 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:46,000 | 欠替起來啊 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 是我就是跟委員 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 要補充這個部分 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 第一個我們會從這個 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 現在現在的社會住宅的 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 包租代管裡面 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 也會有婚禦宅 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 您一定會講完 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 您一定會講 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 您一定會講完 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:03:59,000 | 然後再來就是說 |
| 00:03:59,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 在我們原來的 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 宿地裡面所蓋的社會住宅 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 當然這是大家都同意的 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 那另外一個呢 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 我們會從榮獎的部分 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 包括都更分回 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 或是包括危老 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 或是包括都市計畫的 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 台灣省建築技術規則裡面 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 來做一下修正 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 鼓勵更多的民間 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 來參與 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 然後他參與所修建出來的 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:21,000 | 榮獎裡面 |
| 00:04:21,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 出來的就是社會住宅 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 那這個社會住宅 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 是全台灣要盤點的 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 那這個全台灣盤點的數量呢 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 我們需要經過 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 這個大院如果通過 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 都更跟危老的條例的時候 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 才能夠算出來 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 這個可以出來的 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:39,000 | 社會住宅量是多少 |
| 00:04:39,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 好那請問 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 就是我們一直在跟 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 社會大眾在做溝通 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 就是這叫做 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 滾動式的這個調整 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 但是我們的社會住宅 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 但是我們的社會住宅量 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 不會是只有3萬 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 一定是往上增加的滾動式調整 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 你們的8年到12年到20年 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 都可以這樣講 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 目標沒有變 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 但是重點是時辰 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 什麼要落實 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 那剛才有提到的是 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 這個土地 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 因為你們在112年的時候 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 有明定的這樣子的一個 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 整體開發計畫 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 留設3%到5%的土地 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 供社宅使用 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 那由中央來新購 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 那現在114年的舊版計畫當中 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 還編了801.3億元 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 要來架構這些土地 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 現在新版計畫把這筆錢都刪了 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 那你們要求的是 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 現在把這樣子的地方 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 土地有留著 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 但是現在又刪了預算不滿 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 然後回過來跟人民說 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 不適宜的土地 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 現在我們在想說 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 現在目前的話 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 你們對於這些地方政府所 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 依法留設的土地 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 是打算怎麼樣的處理 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 我請署長跟您回答一下 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 好 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 這個部分確實地方我們有要求 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 在一些整開區要留設這個社福用地 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 那但是這些社福用地 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 未來如果要蓋社宅的部分 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 這個土地要由地方來提供 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 所以我們這個之前 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 以前可能會用中央的預算去買 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 但是這個部分要地方共同來分擔 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 那這個其實我們開會 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 都有跟地方溝通過了 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 所以我剛我們這一次第一階段 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 要做的3萬戶裡面 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:11,000 | 有些區域就是這一方面 |
| 00:06:11,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 跟地方有做過好溝通 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 那後面我們每年都會再去檢討 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 像下半年又會檢討 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 那檢討地方有一些比較新的 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 整開區提供出來的土地 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 這個部分我們會再去修正 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 抱怨的一個計畫 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 好 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 這看起來都沒有時程性 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 這就是很大的問題 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 剛剛包娃娃說的 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 社宅的部分 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 他沒有辦法就是說 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 在那個時程上面沒有呈現 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 就目標但是時程沒有呈現 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 我們目標是121年就是13萬戶 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 所以我們其實用這個目標 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 跟地方政府都有盤點那些數量 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 但是有確定的我們才能夠 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 寫在抱怨計畫 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 因為這個涉及到預算的編列 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 跟委員報告這個一定要 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 比較精準一點 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 就是抱怨計畫要精準一點 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 那是國土署內部的一個作業 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 好 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 希望這個部分因為 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 每次都在說我們從113年到現在 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 115年兩次的部分 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 到後來的現在看到說 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 是121年的時候 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 這樣整個的社宅計畫才可落實 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 每次兩年就新的一個計畫出現的話 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:15,000 | 到時候真的8年能不能實現 |
| 00:07:15,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 是很大的問題 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 然後我們剛剛也看到說 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 如果社會住宅 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 他的這個時間計畫沒有出現的話 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 他的沒辦法真正時間落實出來的話 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 租金的房價部分 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 租金的部分也會再提升 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 根本就沒有辦法去真正讓 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 所謂的社會居住正義可以落實 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 這個部分就是應該要請 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 就是應該要請 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 地政部要持續的觀察 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 當然也是我們立法委員會 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 持續在關注的 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 好 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 謝謝 |