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莊瑞雄 @ 第11屆第5會期司法及法制、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:08,500 | 好 謝謝主席 有請我們國防部副部長 |
| 00:00:08,500 | 00:00:10,000 | 副部長請 |
| 00:00:10,000 | 00:00:11,000 | 中務副部長 |
| 00:00:11,000 | 00:00:15,000 | 部長有幾個議題來請教 |
| 00:00:15,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 去年漢光41號演習期間 |
| 00:00:20,000 | 00:00:27,000 | 澎湖定海營區那個地方連續四個晚上遭到無人機 |
| 00:00:27,000 | 00:00:32,000 | 無人機盤旋每次二到四架 |
| 00:00:32,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 軍方甚至去動用干擾槍 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:37,000 | 最後也沒有辦法有效去做驅離 |
| 00:00:37,000 | 00:00:39,000 | 今年監察院在四月份的時候 |
| 00:00:39,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 也指出國軍這個反無人機從裝備、部署、訓練到後勤的維保 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 都還有改善的一個空間 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 當然都可以更精進 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 今年的漢光40號演習裡面 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 我們擴大無人機的一個攻防 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 首度的去檢驗 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:01,000 | 去驗證了新型無人機干擾的一個系統 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:03,000 | 所以我在這個地方直接來問 |
| 00:01:03,000 | 00:01:05,000 | 今年漢光演習到目前為止 |
| 00:01:05,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 有沒有發現不明無人機入侵營區有這個狀況 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:11,000 | 有沒有 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:12,000 | 我請連長來 |
| 00:01:12,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 跟去年來 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 去年有 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 報告委員 目前進行到現在為止是沒有發現有進入到營區 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 但是這個反無人機的演練的部分 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 我們持續把它納進來 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:27,000 | 今年到現在這次漢光40號演習 |
| 00:01:27,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 沒有發現像去年澎湖營區 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:32,000 | 有無人機干擾營區的事件發生 |
| 00:01:32,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 那我想重點其實就是在講說 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:39,000 | 我們這次的新型的一個干擾系統裡面 |
| 00:01:39,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 有沒有辦法 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 這次有了嘛 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 有沒有辦法實際去反制 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 這次演習到現在成效到底是怎麼樣 |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:49,000 | 在做驗證嘛 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 那你有沒有初步的了解 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 有關於無人機的反制的部分 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:56,000 | 它主要區分成軟煞跟硬煞 |
| 00:01:56,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 那軟煞的部分是藉由我們徵收到 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 我們利用電子反制的方式來做 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 那硬煞的部分 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 不管什麼方式 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 我在問的就是說 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:08,000 | 有人無人機來了 |
| 00:02:08,000 | 00:02:10,000 | 我們現在要用反制要給它干擾 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:11,000 | 現在你驗證了 |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:14,000 | 現在我們整個國軍裡面總是應該有了吧 |
| 00:02:14,000 | 00:02:16,000 | 無人機我們講了那麼久 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 無人機總不是只有去攻擊別人 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 我們也有反制啊干擾啊 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 那我們現在這個部分驗證起來 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 你覺得成效怎麼樣 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:28,000 | 我們具有某種一定程度的反制能力 |
| 00:02:28,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 但是因為無人機的技術不斷的在精進 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 所以說我們這個部分 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:34,000 | 我們當然要精進啊 |
| 00:02:34,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 我的意思是我們驗證到現在 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:40,000 | 我們總是有一些反干擾 |
| 00:02:40,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 反制它 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 結果我們現在成效如何 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 都有一定的能力 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 有一定怎麼樣 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 有一定的能力 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 有一定的能力啊 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 那當然啊 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 核心的問題其實這個演習 |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 其實就是在一種驗證 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 我們整個戰力 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 我們一直在講說發展無人機的一個重要 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:03,000 | 那反無人機干擾這個部分 |
| 00:03:03,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 其實也是對於整個不對稱戰力的一個提升 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 都是非常的一個重要 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 另外我要請教就是說 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 我們歷年漢高演習裡面 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 差不多集中在4到7月 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 我看時間看看 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 2024年以後因為開米颱風來終止 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:21,000 | 所以今年就排在8月 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 那從現代戰爭來看已經改變了 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 像比如說無人載具 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 還有民船的軍用遠距的一個打擊 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 都讓敵軍不一定想攻擊 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 對你造成威脅的人 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 不一定在傳統的一個季節裡面去做限制 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 另外一方面就是說你說颱風啊 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 豪雨啊 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 像華聯的驗射斧的部分啊 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 都等這個極端的一個災害 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 都可能讓國軍投入大量的人力 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 那本席想問兩件事就是說 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:51,000 | 我們未來的漢光演習 |
| 00:03:51,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 你有沒有可能去建立一個更有彈性的一個期限 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 跟備援的一個機制 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 來確保重要的海空 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 或者說實彈科目不受因為天候的一個反覆而取消 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 兵推有沒有可能去納入最壞情況 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 比如說台灣正在發生這個重大的天然災害啊 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 國軍大量投入救災啊 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 這個時候啊 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 這個敵軍趁機來發動攻擊兵推嘛 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 你總是要去設想各種不同的狀況 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 有沒有可能這兩個問題 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 包委員 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 其實在漢光演習的訓練 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 我們是採取這個循序漸進 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 跟連續的這個響進的這個導引 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 那實際上就是可以依照部隊的這個 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 包含他的戰備任務 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 還有我們的訓練目標我們來擺定 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:42,000 | 那因為要結合實戰 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 所以天候的影響對於實戰的影響 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 也是在我們整個訓練的考驗之中 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:52,000 | 那因為今天的漢光演習包含是這個無劇本 |
| 00:04:52,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 有響力無劇本的這個安排 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 所以天候狀況也是在我們這次的狀況之中 |
| 00:04:57,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 所以在今年的漢光演習 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:01,000 | 在白海豚颱風來襲的時候 |
| 00:05:01,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 我們可以看到我們部分的科目 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 也是在這個環境允許的狀況之下 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 在風雨之中來進行 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 但是各種不管是航空器 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 或是戰備部隊的進行 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 我們都會依照天候標準 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:17,000 | 來確保安全的狀況之下 |
| 00:05:17,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 結合響進來執行 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 是啦因為整個漢光演習 |
| 00:05:21,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 其實就是整個戰力的一個驗證嘛 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 那戰力的一個驗證的話 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 不可能說因為我們去設定 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 單獨的戰爭如何去進行 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 或者說突發狀況怎麼樣 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 都是在我們一切的控制之內 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 太多的一個變數啊 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 所以相關的部分 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 其實我們也都應該去做一個想定 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 把它列為一個科目嘛 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 那另外最後一個問題要來請教就是說 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 我記得我三年前 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 前天去提到運動藝的一個問題啦 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 就是說我們現在恢復了一年的藝物藝 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 18到22歲 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 那其實是對一個運動員 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:05:59,000 | 競技養成的一個黃金旗 |
| 00:05:59,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 那大家會說一年的 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 空窗訓練的一個空窗旗 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 確實會影響到整個職業的一個生涯 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 可是呢我本身也去思考啊 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 如果單獨去恢復整個體育的一個替代役 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 也會碰到冰原甚至於公平性的一個問題啊 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 有人會問啊運動員可以啊 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 那我半導體我專長我AI我資安 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 這一些人才那為什麼會變成不可以啊 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 所以我來請教國防部的就是說 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 有沒有可能去想就是說 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 不破壞冰藝的公平 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 不影響到冰原需求的前提之下 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:37,000 | 我們去降低那個一年那個議期 |
| 00:06:37,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 對於頂尖運動員的職來的衝擊 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 那是不是這個運動藝到現在可以再重新再 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 思考的時候 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 就是說他不是免當兵啦 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:49,000 | 是專才來服役 |
| 00:06:49,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 專才來專用 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 那運動員 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 譬如說他完成基礎的軍事訓練以後 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 可以到他的專長去分發到軍事院校 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 或者部隊你去擔任這個整個戰術體能 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 教官也好啊 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 然後科學化的訓練的助教也好啊 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 就把運動科學啊體能啊 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 還有傷害這個把他帶到部隊裡面 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 帶到國軍啊 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 又同時可以得到這些訓練啊 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 我本席到認為你們可以 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 好好的去做一個考慮 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:19,000 | 那同樣的啊 |
| 00:07:19,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 你說你是AI的資安的半導體的 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 一專業來分發到部隊啊 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 或者說中科院啊等重要的一個單位啊 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 這些有沒有可能再去想一下 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 但前提就是說 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 那資格當然一定是公開啊 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:35,000 | 要這個嚴格 |
| 00:07:35,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 不可以變成一個特權 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 更不可能變成一個逃兵的一個後門 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 就是說把這些專才 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 把部隊變成一個專才的部隊 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:49,000 | 讓這些人不會因為這一年的期間裡面 |
| 00:07:49,000 | 00:07:51,000 | 把我的因為服兵役 |
| 00:07:51,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 把我的專才全部都放到倉庫裡面去 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 不知道副部長你的想法 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 報告委員因為委員剛剛所提的意見 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 他牽涉到內政部的議政事務還有運動部 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 還有國防部我想我們需要做跨部會的研析 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 可以研議一下啦 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 因為本席到一直認為說 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 兵役義務跟產業的發展 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 運動也是一個產業啊 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 它不應該是一個零和的一個遊戲啊 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 就說王一川啊 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 吳宗憲委員啊陳永康將軍啊 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 我們回覆到他們現在18月到20月的時 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 實在是說我的專才因為做這件事 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 所以我都輸了 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 天氣後可惜 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 部隊其實也可以善用啊 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 我有這樣的科技的 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 有這樣的資安的 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 我有這樣的運動的 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 我的部隊裡面出來的 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:41,000 | 我從部隊走出來 |
| 00:08:41,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 讓人家覺得說 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 國軍的部隊就是專業的部隊 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 這個可以好好的思考一下可以嗎 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 是 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 我們會配合其他部位我們一起來研究 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 好謝謝副部長 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 謝委 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 好謝謝莊隊 |