| IVOD_ID |
170929 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170929 |
| 日期 |
2026-08-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-15-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第23次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
23 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第23次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-08-12T09:28:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-08-12T09:40:18+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:35 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/628bd009efdbf44b741c6bcd829a30652dd155ae7acf52ac73231451c13a983d85b58d3d4fa10b1e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
許忠信 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:28:43 - 09:40:18 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-08-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長、國土管理署署長、財政部、金融監督管理委員會、中央銀行就「高房價環境下青年安心成家購屋優惠貸款3.0政策檢討：青年購屋門檻、首購資格認定、年齡限制、申貸年齡與核貸年限總合限制及政策上路對於落實居住正義、健全房市政策與配套措施」進行專題報告並備質詢。二、邀請內政部部長、國土管理署署長就「落實居住正義之困境與對策：十三萬戶社宅興辦檢討、都更社宅容獎制度失靈，暨行政院租賃市場修法三大方向(保障租期、限制漲幅、強化權益)之執行進度」進行專題報告並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
6 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
6 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
10 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
各位同仁 我們有請劉世芳劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
14 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
15 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
16 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
17 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
徐委員您好 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
17 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
18 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
19 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
23 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
聽說您17年要降格為千戶大人 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
24 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
27 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
千戶大人 日本的愛里長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
27 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
29 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你是中央的部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
29 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
34 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
千萬不要在17年變成千戶大人 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
34 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
41 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
社會素材的興建 急速的跳票下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
41 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
47 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
造成我們造基投資者以穩健收益 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
47 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
54 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
誘發穩健投資人購買高利息的私募公司災而受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
54 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
57 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
制度中心責無旁貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
57 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
60 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個法律關係如何來理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
60 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
63 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我做了一個體系圖來跟部長做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
64 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
69 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
當我們根據公司法248條私募公司災的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
69 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
71 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
它有兩種情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
72 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
75 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
當它有擔保這個公司災穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
75 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
78 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以它是低利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
79 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
82 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
不論公司做高風險低風險投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
82 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
84 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
它都是低利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
84 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
88 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為它穩定本金利息可以回收 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
88 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
92 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
但是當私募公司災無擔保的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
93 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
97 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
正常情形它會低利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
98 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
101 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
公司做低風險投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
101 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
103 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個時候投資人 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
103 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
107 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他乃是仰賴發行公司的債信 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
107 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
110 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
將來會還還他本金跟利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
111 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
115 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
但是當無擔保公司災有高利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
115 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
123 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
包括我們技機協年息10.5%的年息高利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
123 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
128 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
以及造機12%年息的高利息的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
128 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
131 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
如果公司做高風險投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
132 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
133 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
134 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
137 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
他買公司災其實類似買股票 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
137 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
139 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
也就是我表格裡面最下一行 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
140 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
143 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
但是當他獲得這樣一個高利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
144 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
148 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
他本來是要投資一個低風險的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
148 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
151 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
結果卻被李建成掏空而受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
151 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
153 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個時候有玄機了 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
154 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
156 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
為什麼這些投資人 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
157 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
160 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
他要獲高利10% |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
160 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
164 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
值點5到12%的利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
164 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
165 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這是高利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
165 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
166 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們現在平均利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
167 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
169 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
銀行大概1%、2%而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
170 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
171 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
所以很顯然他是高利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
171 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
174 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
當然很多人趨之若鶩 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
175 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
176 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
趨之若鶩的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
177 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
180 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
沒有想到李建成會掏空變成受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
181 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
185 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那他們為什麼要去做這個投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
186 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
187 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
有兩個關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
187 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
188 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
人跟物 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
189 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
194 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
物就是剛才部長您被講成117年 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
194 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
197 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
要變成千戶大人這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
198 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
200 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
也就是政府少見社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
201 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
205 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
增多包租代管的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
205 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
207 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
增多包租代管的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
207 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
211 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
讓這些公司災的投資人認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
211 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
215 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
造機不管是造機造機還是寄居縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
216 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
218 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
他們的包租業 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
218 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
219 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這個包租代管的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
219 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
224 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
會有穩定的增加或是穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
225 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
226 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以這是物的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
226 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
230 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
也就是政府的社會住宅的跳票 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
230 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
233 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
多包租代管這個趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
233 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
237 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
被公司災的投資人信以為 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
237 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
239 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
他做這個公司災投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
239 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
242 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
他可以穩定的回收他的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
242 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
244 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那另外就是有人的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
244 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
246 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這個人的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
247 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
249 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我們根據媒體報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
250 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
255 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我們花敬群董事長跟李建成 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
256 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
258 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
你們的關係如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
260 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
261 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
你們的關係如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
263 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
265 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
花董事長你跟李建成的關係如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
269 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
270 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
是 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
271 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
273 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
包委員當然就是因為從事 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
273 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
276 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
他從事社會住宅包租代管工作之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
276 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
277 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
彼此才認識 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
278 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
281 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這一疊資料是受害人拿出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
281 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
285 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
跟我申訴的他們的私募公司災的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
285 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
286 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
這麼大疊 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
286 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
290 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我全部看完全部做了EARMARK |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
292 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
294 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
據我推測您花信 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
295 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
297 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
應該是我們台南後幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
297 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
298 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
298 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
299 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那邊有花信 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
299 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
300 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
很少 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
301 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
303 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
所以我跟你無怨無仇 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
305 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
310 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
所以今天我們是要了解這些投資人 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
310 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
313 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
為什麼要來做這樣一個投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
313 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
315 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
315 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
318 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
造基公司這麼多年來做的社會住宅包租代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
318 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
322 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
其實三分之二是縣市政府的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
322 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
325 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
三分之一是中央政府的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
325 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
328 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
所以說造基過去的經營業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
328 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
331 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
被民眾信任的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
331 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
336 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
其實有三分之二是來自縣市政府包租代管的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
336 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
339 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
所以說不能把這樣子的說好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
339 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
341 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
這是我的宰諱 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
341 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
343 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
你跟李建成的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
343 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
345 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
根據您的媒體回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
345 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
347 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
你說跟他只爬過一次山 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
347 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
348 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
是 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
348 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
353 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
但是媒體的報導是說你們是經常爬山的山友 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
353 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
355 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那是委員你們說的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
355 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
358 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
媒體為什麼這樣說我不知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
358 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
359 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
就是這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
359 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
361 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
也就是說你不殺博人 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
361 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
362 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
博人因你而死 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
362 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
363 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
新聞報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
363 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
365 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
媒體報導也是這幾天的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
365 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
368 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
但是投資人投資這些公司債 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
368 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
370 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
是前幾年的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
370 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
371 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
他怎麼會有關係呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
371 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
373 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
這個是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
373 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
375 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
當媒體這樣報導的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
375 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
378 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我們很多人這樣講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
378 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
381 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我發董事長跟李建成的關係回前 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
381 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
385 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我想我這個人是非上二分別的很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
385 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
386 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
386 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
389 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
請相信我這個人對是非上二的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
389 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
391 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我剛才講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
391 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
393 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
你不殺博人博人因你而死 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
393 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
396 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
媒體報導你跟李建成的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
396 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
398 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
可能博人是因你而死而不是因我而死 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
398 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
400 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
投資人 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
400 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
402 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
看到你跟李的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
402 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
405 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
看到我們少建社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
405 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
406 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
你是導國委員了 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
406 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
408 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
這幾天的報導就是這幾天 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
408 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
410 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
投資人是過去幾年的決策 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
410 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
413 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
投資人怎麼會看到我跟李建成 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
413 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
415 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
被媒體報導的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
415 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
417 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
不是只有媒體報導的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
417 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
419 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
也就是說你跟李建成 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
419 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
421 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
剛才你的答覆就講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
421 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
423 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
因為包租代管的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
423 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
424 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
你跟他熟悉什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
424 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
426 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我想柯文哲跟他更熟吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
426 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
427 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
427 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
429 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那就去問嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
429 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
430 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
430 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
433 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們造基大概包租代管的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
433 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
435 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
有三成由他們得標 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
435 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
436 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
大概有三成由他們得標 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
436 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
438 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
沒有兩成 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
438 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
439 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
兩成 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
439 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
440 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
440 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
442 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
兩成三成都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
442 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
446 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
但是台北市政府造基的比重更高 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
446 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
447 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
新北市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
447 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
448 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
台元市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
448 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
449 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
台中市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
449 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
451 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
麻煩我們去查一查 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
451 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
452 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們都全部來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
452 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
455 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那就不需要說只有我有關係嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
455 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
458 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
您跟李建成的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
458 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
460 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
以及政府少建社 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
460 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
463 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我跟李建成就是因為業務上面認識 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
463 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
465 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
彼此為了推動業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
466 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
469 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
有些時候跟產業一起在開貨的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
469 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
470 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
會一起討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
470 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
473 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那一次的爬山就是造基公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
473 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
476 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
邀請了產業界二三十位朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
476 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
478 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
一起在平等裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
478 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
479 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
就這麼一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
479 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
481 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那你要把它說到 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
481 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
484 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
好像我們有怎麼樣子的幕後黑手 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
484 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
485 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
485 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
486 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我覺得好像有點 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
486 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
488 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
我沒有說以致幕後黑手 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
488 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
489 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
比例關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
489 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
491 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
因為這個人的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
491 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
494 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
跟社會住宅少見而多 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
494 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
496 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
包租代管的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
496 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
497 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
讓投資人認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
497 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
499 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
他們這是一個穩健投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
499 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
501 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
固定的造基 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
501 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
502 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
社會住宅包租代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
502 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
504 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
本來就是一個非常穩健的投資標的 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
504 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
507 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以說絕大多數的業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
507 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
509 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
都穩健經營當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
509 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
511 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以現在就受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
511 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
512 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
所以這是他個人的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
512 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
515 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
而不是這個行業的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
515 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
517 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
不管是造基或是寄居蟹 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
517 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
519 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
公司在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
519 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
520 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
公司在使用目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
520 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
522 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
都是要做包租代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
522 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
523 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
包租代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
523 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
525 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
捷運包租代管等業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
525 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
528 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
沒有做其他的風險投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
528 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
530 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那為什麼他們投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
530 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
532 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
李建成目前資金座怎麼使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
532 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
534 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
他已經不是包租代管的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
534 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
537 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那是公司在相關的監理的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
537 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
539 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這個是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
539 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
542 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我們這些公司在募集 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
542 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
543 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
有他的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
543 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
545 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
你們把它謀做高風險的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
545 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
546 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
不是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
546 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
547 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
是他不是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
547 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
549 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我沒有在那個門裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
549 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
551 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
的確是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
551 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
554 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
但是造基跟寄居蟹 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
554 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
557 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
把這些穩健的公司在 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
557 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
560 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
拿來做高風險的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
560 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
563 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
欸 董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
563 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
565 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
您的在信 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
565 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
568 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們住都中心的在信 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
568 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
570 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
被業者用來 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
570 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
573 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
做為籌資的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
573 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
574 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
包委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
574 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
576 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
社會住宅包租代管政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
576 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
579 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
不等於國家住都中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
579 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
581 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
也不等於我花錢取 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
581 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
585 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
你硬要把這些東西扯到我的身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
585 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
586 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
扯到住都中心身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
586 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
588 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
其實我覺得你學法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
588 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
590 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
你是法律系大教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
590 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
591 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你不應該有這樣的邏輯觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
591 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
594 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我就是因為學法我才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
594 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
595 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
所以你的邏輯很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
595 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
598 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
投資人就是因為有人的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
598 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
599 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
有物的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
599 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
601 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
他才願意來私募這個公司在 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
601 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
603 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
他以為他是穩健投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
603 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
606 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
可以每年10.5%的利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
606 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
608 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
12%的利息 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
608 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
610 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
結果卻被掏空 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
610 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
611 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
是 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
611 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
613 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
就是因為我學法才知道公司在 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
613 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
615 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
之所以能夠被 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
615 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
617 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
喜歡投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
617 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
619 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
他本來他要做穩健投資的 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
619 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
621 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
結果他現在受害了 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
622 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
623 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
623 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
625 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以他跟包租代管業務的吹動 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
625 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
626 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
一點關係都沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
626 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
629 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
他是拿到那筆錢的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
629 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
631 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
他是不可以用那筆錢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
631 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
632 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
他沒有人 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
632 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
633 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
他不受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
633 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
634 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
包租代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
634 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
635 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
635 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
636 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
而你跟你的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
636 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
638 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我很遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
638 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
641 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我很遺憾陳大教授是這樣子來分析理論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
641 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
642 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我很遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
642 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
643 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我至少我不遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
643 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
644 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
645 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
650 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我今天分析這個公司在之所以能夠有吸引力 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
650 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
652 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
就是有人的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
652 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
653 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
跟這個物 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
653 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
655 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
也就是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
655 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
657 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
社會素材少見 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
657 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
659 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
而要增多包租代管的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
659 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
661 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
所以投資人認為我來投資這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
661 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
663 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
有利可圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
663 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
664 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
所以他來投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
664 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
666 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
您責無旁貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
667 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
669 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
尊重委員的質詢和說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
669 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
672 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
但是道理或事實只有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
672 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
674 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
邏輯怎麼樣是對的也只有一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
674 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
675 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我追疊資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
675 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
676 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我尊重您 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
676 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
678 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
至少還可以三次記者會 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
678 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
680 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
跟各位公布裡面的事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
682 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
683 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
追疊資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
684 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
685 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我親自讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
685 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
687 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
裡面至少還有三個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
687 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
688 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我要跟你請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
689 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
690 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
謝謝我們董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
690 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
691 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
謝謝市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
691 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
692 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
694 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
695 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
謝謝 |