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王義川 @ 第11屆第5會期司法及法制、外交及國防委員會第1次聯席會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:06,300 | 提問 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 張市長 |
| 00:00:32,380 | 00:00:33,380 | 黃委員好 |
| 00:00:33,380 | 00:00:36,140 | 副市長 副部長 請教一下 |
| 00:00:36,140 | 00:00:38,440 | 我們現在對這個軍人 |
| 00:00:38,440 | 00:00:41,540 | 效忠國家這套的這個修法裡面 |
| 00:00:41,540 | 00:00:44,480 | 類似說預備犯陰謀犯 |
| 00:00:44,480 | 00:00:48,240 | 以不同的方式表達 |
| 00:00:48,240 | 00:00:50,040 | 看起來對國家不忠誠 |
| 00:00:50,040 | 00:00:52,840 | 去對敵國表達忠誠 |
| 00:00:52,840 | 00:00:53,840 | 這樣 |
| 00:00:53,840 | 00:00:58,840 | 現在這個修法的版本的這個文字 |
| 00:00:58,880 | 00:01:01,880 | 在未來國防部在宣導上 |
| 00:01:01,880 | 00:01:04,880 | 會不會遇到有爭議 |
| 00:01:04,880 | 00:01:06,880 | 還是說實際發生的時候 |
| 00:01:06,880 | 00:01:08,880 | 會不會遊走在那個邊緣 |
| 00:01:08,880 | 00:01:09,880 | 就是說 |
| 00:01:09,880 | 00:01:11,880 | 它是那麼傷 |
| 00:01:11,880 | 00:01:15,880 | 拿一張紙一張筆就要寫 |
| 00:01:15,880 | 00:01:17,880 | 就要寫 |
| 00:01:17,880 | 00:01:20,880 | 那張就要放一張筆 |
| 00:01:20,880 | 00:01:22,880 | 你把它拿到的時候 |
| 00:01:22,880 | 00:01:23,880 | 你寫這個要幹嘛 |
| 00:01:23,880 | 00:01:24,880 | 他說沒有啦 |
| 00:01:24,880 | 00:01:26,880 | 我就寫法系的 |
| 00:01:26,920 | 00:01:27,920 | 我的意思是說 |
| 00:01:27,920 | 00:01:28,920 | 這一些東西啊 |
| 00:01:28,920 | 00:01:31,920 | 在修法的文字上 |
| 00:01:31,920 | 00:01:33,920 | 有沒有更精進 |
| 00:01:33,920 | 00:01:37,920 | 讓國軍可以更遵循的方式 |
| 00:01:37,920 | 00:01:38,920 | 跟委員做個說明 |
| 00:01:38,920 | 00:01:40,920 | 後續這個 |
| 00:01:40,920 | 00:01:42,919 | 路海公軍刑法第二次僚修正草案 |
| 00:01:42,919 | 00:01:43,919 | 通過之後 |
| 00:01:43,919 | 00:01:46,919 | 我們會透過正法令的一個宣導 |
| 00:01:46,919 | 00:01:48,919 | 另外也透過舉官元帝 |
| 00:01:48,919 | 00:01:50,919 | 向全軍的官兵 |
| 00:01:50,919 | 00:01:52,919 | 做一個政令的一個宣導 |
| 00:01:52,919 | 00:01:53,919 | 讓所有的官士兵 |
| 00:01:53,919 | 00:01:55,919 | 都知道二次僚修正草案 |
| 00:01:55,960 | 00:01:57,960 | 他修正完的法案 |
| 00:01:57,960 | 00:01:59,960 | 是法令是怎麼樣 |
| 00:01:59,960 | 00:02:00,960 | 那第二個部分就是 |
| 00:02:00,960 | 00:02:02,960 | 每一個個案 |
| 00:02:02,960 | 00:02:05,960 | 他都要經過這個個人的 |
| 00:02:05,960 | 00:02:06,960 | 一個主觀翻譯 |
| 00:02:06,960 | 00:02:08,960 | 那第二個部分是 |
| 00:02:08,960 | 00:02:09,960 | 他有犯罪的事實 |
| 00:02:09,960 | 00:02:11,960 | 那第三個部分是 |
| 00:02:11,960 | 00:02:13,960 | 由檢察官來做認定 |
| 00:02:13,960 | 00:02:15,960 | 那有關這個軍人的 |
| 00:02:15,960 | 00:02:17,960 | 這個違紀跟違法的部分 |
| 00:02:17,960 | 00:02:18,960 | 不太一樣 |
| 00:02:18,960 | 00:02:19,960 | 那違法的部分 |
| 00:02:19,960 | 00:02:22,960 | 以路海公軍刑法來實施處分 |
| 00:02:22,960 | 00:02:24,960 | 那另外他違紀的部分 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 是按照路海公軍懲罰法 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:29,000 | 來實施所有區分 |
| 00:02:29,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 兩個部分來做處理 |
| 00:02:30,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 好 因為我是擔心 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 以後 怕說 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 實務上發生的時候 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 每個條件都要叫檢察官 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 去認定 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 無緣無故有可能 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 有可能會文治獄 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 這就真難說 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 所以相關的立法過程 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 跟接下來立法完成之後的 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 這一些可能 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 這個要更細緻一點 |
| 00:02:53,040 | 00:02:56,040 | 要不然他就遊走在那個邊緣 |
| 00:02:56,040 | 00:02:57,040 | 到時候出事的時候 |
| 00:02:57,040 | 00:02:59,040 | 哎呦你沒有寫得很清楚 |
| 00:02:59,040 | 00:03:01,040 | 我這樣做哪裡又錯了 |
| 00:03:01,040 | 00:03:02,040 | 類似這樣 |
| 00:03:02,040 | 00:03:04,040 | 第二 我請笑一下 |
| 00:03:04,040 | 00:03:07,040 | 軍人 軍人現在如果吃毒 |
| 00:03:07,040 | 00:03:09,040 | 去給你們抓到 |
| 00:03:09,040 | 00:03:10,040 | 職業軍人 |
| 00:03:10,040 | 00:03:12,040 | 吃毒去給你們抓到 |
| 00:03:12,040 | 00:03:13,040 | 下一步是什麼 |
| 00:03:14,040 | 00:03:15,040 | 第一個部分是 |
| 00:03:15,040 | 00:03:18,040 | 我們按照這個刑法額度 |
| 00:03:18,040 | 00:03:20,040 | 以及原先的這個條例 |
| 00:03:20,040 | 00:03:21,040 | 來實施處分 |
| 00:03:21,079 | 00:03:22,079 | 第一個部分 |
| 00:03:22,079 | 00:03:24,079 | 這個軍人辦毒 |
| 00:03:24,079 | 00:03:26,079 | 基本上是以太處為主 |
| 00:03:28,079 | 00:03:29,079 | 太處 |
| 00:03:29,079 | 00:03:32,079 | 所以軍人獨家會再獨家嗎 |
| 00:03:33,079 | 00:03:35,079 | 基本上在他獨家的時候 |
| 00:03:35,079 | 00:03:37,079 | 他從此就已經 |
| 00:03:37,079 | 00:03:39,079 | 辦了獨家的 |
| 00:03:39,079 | 00:03:40,079 | 基本上 |
| 00:03:40,079 | 00:03:42,079 | 我們是會實施太處 |
| 00:03:42,079 | 00:03:44,079 | 不會讓他再有獨家的行為 |
| 00:03:44,079 | 00:03:47,079 | 所以說我們刑法裡面 |
| 00:03:47,079 | 00:03:49,079 | 關於軍人獨家再犯 |
| 00:03:49,120 | 00:03:51,120 | 獨家再犯這事不會發生嗎 |
| 00:03:52,120 | 00:03:53,120 | 基本上是不會的 |
| 00:03:53,120 | 00:03:54,120 | 不會嗎 |
| 00:03:54,120 | 00:03:56,120 | 對 因為獨家完就會實施太處的作用 |
| 00:03:56,120 | 00:03:58,120 | 所以如果說你刑法裡面 |
| 00:03:58,120 | 00:04:01,120 | 如果要修這個獨家就是一刀而已 |
| 00:04:01,120 | 00:04:04,120 | 他也不會有再獨家的 |
| 00:04:04,120 | 00:04:05,120 | 事情發生嘛 |
| 00:04:05,120 | 00:04:06,120 | 這要不要確定 |
| 00:04:10,120 | 00:04:12,120 | 這個因為也有牽涉到疫情的問題 |
| 00:04:12,120 | 00:04:14,120 | 因為一無一他是沒有太處的問題 |
| 00:04:15,120 | 00:04:18,120 | 所以一無一我們基本上是 |
| 00:04:18,160 | 00:04:21,160 | 志願役的部分基本上都是以太處為主 |
| 00:04:21,160 | 00:04:23,160 | 那一無一的部分 |
| 00:04:23,160 | 00:04:25,160 | 我們會這一個按照 |
| 00:04:25,160 | 00:04:27,160 | 也是按照陸來公義刑法 |
| 00:04:27,160 | 00:04:29,160 | 但是他有基本的意旗要服 |
| 00:04:30,160 | 00:04:32,160 | 他現在獨家 |
| 00:04:33,160 | 00:04:34,160 | 去用抓定 |
| 00:04:34,160 | 00:04:35,160 | 一無一 |
| 00:04:35,160 | 00:04:36,160 | 獨家去用抓定 |
| 00:04:36,160 | 00:04:38,160 | 他到時候也去用收起來 |
| 00:04:38,160 | 00:04:41,160 | 回來之後他又繼續跟你獨家 |
| 00:04:42,160 | 00:04:46,160 | 基本上我們會有形成並行的一個方式 |
| 00:04:46,200 | 00:04:48,200 | 就是說他的刑事責任必須要負 |
| 00:04:48,200 | 00:04:50,200 | 但是形成並行 |
| 00:04:50,200 | 00:04:53,200 | 我們也對他會實施相關的一個 |
| 00:04:53,200 | 00:04:55,200 | 類似禁足 |
| 00:04:55,200 | 00:04:59,200 | 或是一些這個緊閉的一些非法來處分 |
| 00:04:59,200 | 00:05:02,200 | 這因為我們現在在修這個的時候 |
| 00:05:02,200 | 00:05:04,200 | 去當著罪犯 |
| 00:05:04,200 | 00:05:06,200 | 我們在條文裡面有一個罪犯的事情 |
| 00:05:06,200 | 00:05:08,200 | 所以這些文字上 |
| 00:05:08,200 | 00:05:10,200 | 再考量看要怎麼 |
| 00:05:11,200 | 00:05:13,200 | 就是說你跟我說志願役交易 |
| 00:05:13,200 | 00:05:15,200 | 志願役就直接太處 |
| 00:05:15,240 | 00:05:17,240 | 所以志願役沒有獨家再犯 |
| 00:05:17,240 | 00:05:20,240 | 那志願役有九價再犯的問題嗎 |
| 00:05:21,240 | 00:05:24,240 | 因為九價的形態他各自不同 |
| 00:05:24,240 | 00:05:27,240 | 所以我們會依據他的各自形態的不同 |
| 00:05:27,240 | 00:05:28,240 | 基本上 |
| 00:05:28,240 | 00:05:31,240 | 原先我們九價也是以太祖為主 |
| 00:05:31,240 | 00:05:32,240 | 但是他太陽不同 |
| 00:05:32,240 | 00:05:35,240 | 所以有經過審議委員會之後 |
| 00:05:35,240 | 00:05:38,240 | 會有比較不一樣的一個判決 |
| 00:05:38,240 | 00:05:39,240 | 但是基本上 |
| 00:05:39,240 | 00:05:41,240 | 也是不容許九價發生這件事情 |
| 00:05:41,240 | 00:05:42,240 | 好 |
| 00:05:42,280 | 00:05:45,280 | 那接下來我請教這個法務部 |
| 00:05:46,280 | 00:05:47,280 | 我請教一下 |
| 00:05:47,280 | 00:05:50,280 | 我們現在很多委員的修法 |
| 00:05:50,280 | 00:05:53,280 | 就是這個獨家以後這個車輛沒入 |
| 00:05:53,280 | 00:05:56,280 | 或者獨家再犯車輛沒入 |
| 00:05:57,280 | 00:05:58,280 | 當然委員希望說 |
| 00:05:58,280 | 00:06:00,280 | 這有時候是財產的問題 |
| 00:06:00,280 | 00:06:01,280 | 是 |
| 00:06:01,280 | 00:06:02,280 | 可能是 |
| 00:06:02,280 | 00:06:04,280 | 開他現在獨家之後 |
| 00:06:04,280 | 00:06:06,280 | 開他媽媽的車 |
| 00:06:06,280 | 00:06:08,280 | 還獨家 |
| 00:06:08,280 | 00:06:09,280 | 他媽媽說 |
| 00:06:09,280 | 00:06:11,280 | 我知道我兒子把我的車開出去 |
| 00:06:11,320 | 00:06:12,320 | 所以是都放在那裡 |
| 00:06:12,320 | 00:06:14,320 | 車就開出去 |
| 00:06:14,320 | 00:06:15,320 | 這樣也要幫我沒收 |
| 00:06:15,320 | 00:06:17,320 | 那是我兒子車是我 |
| 00:06:17,320 | 00:06:21,320 | 這件事情在法務部在討論這件事情的時候 |
| 00:06:21,320 | 00:06:23,320 | 你們有什麼樣的不同的看法 |
| 00:06:23,320 | 00:06:25,320 | 是跟委員報告 |
| 00:06:25,320 | 00:06:28,320 | 那我們現在的草案主要是針對那個 |
| 00:06:28,320 | 00:06:31,320 | 獨家的這個家中結果犯 |
| 00:06:31,320 | 00:06:32,320 | 以及再犯的家中結果犯 |
| 00:06:32,320 | 00:06:34,320 | 就是避免說他的範圍過大 |
| 00:06:34,320 | 00:06:38,320 | 然後來限縮他可能沒收人民財產的 |
| 00:06:38,320 | 00:06:39,320 | 這樣子的一個情況 |
| 00:06:39,360 | 00:06:42,360 | 那主要是限於就是無正當理由 |
| 00:06:42,360 | 00:06:45,360 | 交付給獨家者或者是酒駕者來運用 |
| 00:06:45,360 | 00:06:48,360 | 然後犯了這個家中結果犯 |
| 00:06:48,360 | 00:06:49,360 | 或是再犯家中結果犯 |
| 00:06:49,360 | 00:06:51,360 | 才有這個沒收的這個事 |
| 00:06:51,360 | 00:06:52,360 | 我跟你們說的 |
| 00:06:52,360 | 00:06:55,360 | 那個收起都靠在門口 |
| 00:06:55,360 | 00:06:56,360 | 是 |
| 00:06:56,360 | 00:06:57,360 | 他們兒子出門就開出去 |
| 00:06:57,360 | 00:06:58,360 | 那獨家 |
| 00:06:58,360 | 00:06:59,360 | 他媽媽也不知道 |
| 00:06:59,360 | 00:07:01,360 | 這算故意嗎 |
| 00:07:01,360 | 00:07:02,360 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:07:02,360 | 00:07:05,360 | 因為是不是有無正當理由這件事情 |
| 00:07:05,360 | 00:07:07,360 | 到時候在法院的這個 |
| 00:07:07,400 | 00:07:08,400 | 法院的這個審判範圍 |
| 00:07:08,400 | 00:07:10,400 | 他會依照那個客觀的事實 |
| 00:07:10,400 | 00:07:13,400 | 還有一些相關的證據去做認定 |
| 00:07:13,400 | 00:07:14,400 | 車開了 |
| 00:07:14,400 | 00:07:15,400 | 危險危險就是說 |
| 00:07:15,400 | 00:07:17,400 | 這個車主說 |
| 00:07:17,400 | 00:07:18,400 | 我不知道啊 |
| 00:07:18,400 | 00:07:19,400 | 他就把我的車開出去 |
| 00:07:19,400 | 00:07:21,400 | 大家都這樣說就好了 |
| 00:07:21,400 | 00:07:23,400 | 這時候他媽媽的車沒人沒收 |
| 00:07:23,400 | 00:07:26,400 | 兩天他們的車也開出去 |
| 00:07:26,400 | 00:07:27,400 | 又獨家 |
| 00:07:27,400 | 00:07:29,400 | 他就已經都沒吃了 |
| 00:07:29,400 | 00:07:31,400 | 現在車子沒吃了 |
| 00:07:31,400 | 00:07:32,400 | 繼續在開車 |
| 00:07:32,400 | 00:07:33,400 | 開三分鐘 |
| 00:07:33,400 | 00:07:34,400 | 他沒在開 |
| 00:07:34,400 | 00:07:35,400 | 他沒在開車 |
| 00:07:35,400 | 00:07:36,400 | 開三分鐘 |
| 00:07:36,440 | 00:07:38,440 | 他媽媽抓到車沒人沒收 |
| 00:07:38,440 | 00:07:40,440 | 爸爸媽媽出來 |
| 00:07:40,440 | 00:07:42,440 | 說我兒子的車開出去 |
| 00:07:42,440 | 00:07:44,440 | 這個怎麼防範 |
| 00:07:44,440 | 00:07:46,440 | 跟委員報告就是說 |
| 00:07:46,440 | 00:07:48,440 | 我相信很多的這個財產所有權人 |
| 00:07:48,440 | 00:07:50,440 | 他都會有各式各樣的理由 |
| 00:07:50,440 | 00:07:52,440 | 然後來辯解說 |
| 00:07:52,440 | 00:07:54,440 | 他並不是無正當理由交付的這件事情 |
| 00:07:54,440 | 00:07:57,440 | 那都是要由個案在證據上面 |
| 00:07:57,440 | 00:07:59,440 | 做一些相關的一些判斷 |
| 00:07:59,440 | 00:08:01,440 | 那現在我們法律 |
| 00:08:01,440 | 00:08:02,440 | 之後如果修訂以後 |
| 00:08:02,440 | 00:08:05,440 | 那就會依照這個相關的法律 |
| 00:08:05,480 | 00:08:07,480 | 然後來做一個認定跟判斷 |
| 00:08:07,480 | 00:08:09,480 | 所以你也是認為說 |
| 00:08:09,480 | 00:08:11,480 | 這個罪犯以後的那一台車 |
| 00:08:11,480 | 00:08:13,480 | 要不要沒收 |
| 00:08:13,480 | 00:08:15,480 | 還是要看個案是不是 |
| 00:08:15,480 | 00:08:16,480 | 是 |
| 00:08:16,480 | 00:08:18,480 | 你現在認為是這樣 |
| 00:08:18,480 | 00:08:20,480 | 對要依照那個個案上面的 |
| 00:08:20,480 | 00:08:22,480 | 相關的事實證據來做一個認定 |
| 00:08:22,480 | 00:08:24,480 | 我記我自己的 |
| 00:08:24,480 | 00:08:25,480 | 我一位朋友 |
| 00:08:25,480 | 00:08:27,480 | 他們的孩子 |
| 00:08:27,480 | 00:08:28,480 | 就酒駕 |
| 00:08:28,480 | 00:08:29,480 | 酒駕沒人敢吃 |
| 00:08:29,480 | 00:08:31,480 | 車子用車子 |
| 00:08:31,480 | 00:08:32,480 | 現在開他媽媽 |
| 00:08:32,480 | 00:08:34,480 | 我奇怪你兒子今天怎麼開車來 |
| 00:08:34,520 | 00:08:35,520 | 他說就開我兒子 |
| 00:08:35,520 | 00:08:37,520 | 他是不能開車開你的 |
| 00:08:37,520 | 00:08:38,520 | 他說沒關係 |
| 00:08:38,520 | 00:08:39,520 | 車子是我的 |
| 00:08:39,520 | 00:08:40,520 | 到時候也不會去用車 |
| 00:08:40,520 | 00:08:42,520 | 這聽起來就嚴重了 |
| 00:08:42,520 | 00:08:44,520 | 所以他又繼續開 |
| 00:08:44,520 | 00:08:46,520 | 這個在實務上你們的了解 |
| 00:08:46,520 | 00:08:48,520 | 應該也會發生這種事 |
| 00:08:48,520 | 00:08:49,520 | 是 |
| 00:08:49,520 | 00:08:51,520 | 大家這種推脫支持一定很多 |
| 00:08:51,520 | 00:08:53,520 | 這什麼事情都要交代 |
| 00:08:53,520 | 00:08:55,520 | 車檢察官給法官去判斷 |
| 00:08:55,520 | 00:08:58,520 | 這就看運氣運氣了 |
| 00:08:58,520 | 00:09:00,520 | 所以這個可能我們接下來 |
| 00:09:00,520 | 00:09:03,520 | 後面的這個修法討論的時候 |
| 00:09:03,560 | 00:09:05,560 | 請這個法務部再 |
| 00:09:05,560 | 00:09:07,560 | 看一下我知道大家很在乎 |
| 00:09:07,560 | 00:09:08,560 | 在山的問題 |
| 00:09:08,560 | 00:09:10,560 | 沒入財產的問題 |
| 00:09:10,560 | 00:09:12,560 | 但是如果要遏止這種 |
| 00:09:12,560 | 00:09:14,560 | 這一個酒駕毒駕 |
| 00:09:14,560 | 00:09:15,560 | 他就已經沒敢吃了 |
| 00:09:15,560 | 00:09:16,560 | 沒敢吃 |
| 00:09:16,560 | 00:09:18,560 | 開現金的很多 |
| 00:09:18,560 | 00:09:20,560 | 然後他還是繼續開車 |
| 00:09:20,560 | 00:09:22,560 | 還是繼續犯錯 |
| 00:09:22,560 | 00:09:24,560 | 那這一種怎麼樣來遏止他 |
| 00:09:24,560 | 00:09:26,560 | 我個人是認為 |
| 00:09:26,560 | 00:09:28,560 | 沒收財產 |
| 00:09:28,560 | 00:09:29,560 | 才會痛 |
| 00:09:29,560 | 00:09:30,560 | 好以上 |
| 00:09:30,560 | 00:09:32,560 | 謝謝委員提醒 |
| 00:09:32,560 | 00:09:35,599 | 好謝謝王一川委員 |