iVOD / 170908
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許忠信 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:19,000 | 主席 |
| 00:00:19,000 | 00:00:22,000 | 我們有請張局方 張律師 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:25,000 | 請張貝提明人 |
| 00:00:25,000 | 00:00:30,000 | 張律師好 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 您好 |
| 00:00:31,000 | 00:00:35,000 | 我對律師這個職務非常的敬重 |
| 00:00:35,000 | 00:00:37,000 | 因為我也曾經開業當律師 |
| 00:00:37,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 不到三個月我就關門 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:45,000 | 我今天要來跟張律師請教 |
| 00:00:45,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 我們在台大法學院念書的時候 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 我們受教於劉慶瑞 林濟東大法官 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 還有我們蔡敦明老師 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 他們的教誨還有沒有在你的心中 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:03,000 | 老師的教誨我想 |
| 00:01:03,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 我雖然不一定是如何的學生 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 但是老師的教誨是在我心中的 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:11,000 | 這也是我前面提到 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 我為什麼會提就是說 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 這些是對我後續我的工作職業律師 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 以及擔任監委 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 這是有很大的幫忙的 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 所以我對您的期待非常的高 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 謝謝您 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 我來擔任立法委員 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 我吃完飯都會到台大法學 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:31,000 | 去那邊散步 |
| 00:01:31,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 我想到的就是這些師長 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 當時對我們的教導 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 我們今天這個問題要來請教您 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 也就是說我們本院所通過的法律案 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 預算案 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 行政院長如果覺得自愛難行 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 根據我們的憲法本文57條 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 也就是舊法 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 行政院長要辭職或是應急接受 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:01,000 | 那我們根據新法 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:04,000 | 也就是徵修條文第三條 |
| 00:02:04,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 只有應急接受 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 已經沒有辭職的選項 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 這個差異表示說 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 我們現在已經從雙重行政所長制 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 偏向這個 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 比較偏向總統制 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 所以當我們本院所通過的法律案 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 我們現在中興大學法律系畢業的 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 卓榮泰行政院長 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:38,000 | 他不附屬 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 我個人從我台大法學 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 他可能是中興法學 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 我台大法學認為這是違憲的 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 您覺得如何 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 委員我想你有非常深厚的法學背景 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 是非常感到敬佩的一個地方 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 您就議題的部分也都點出他的爭點 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 但是我這邊要說明的 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 這也是外界常常質疑的 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:07,000 | 監察院你為什麼不辦 |
| 00:03:07,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 因而會衍生出 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 你為什麼辦得很少 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 那樣的案子你為什麼不辦 |
| 00:03:14,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 所以這個部分如果牽涉到 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 因為我們是權力分立 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 在目前我們是最高憲政機關監察的 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 我們有權力分立 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 分立並且相違 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 所以我們都是尊重的 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,000 | 司法也是尊重 |
| 00:03:30,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 也就是說如果這一塊是屬於憲政爭議的 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 您剛剛都點到非常爭點 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 我們叫法律爭點 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 法律爭點您都提出來了 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:43,000 | 這些法律爭點的疑義 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:46,000 | 恐怕是憲政層次要去處理的 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:48,000 | 憲法法庭要去處理了 |
| 00:03:48,000 | 00:03:51,000 | 但我們這邊會處理的就是說 |
| 00:03:51,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 監察院要處理的 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 如果在整個人員他有違法失職 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 違背法令 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 而且有失職 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 情節重大的 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 他就會回到我們監院的處理 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 但是我想他有憲政層次的問題 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:12,000 | 我想這也是我身為法律人 |
| 00:04:12,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 我認為身為法律人 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 我也深刻期許的 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:17,000 | 該尊重你一定要尊重 |
| 00:04:17,000 | 00:04:19,000 | 這是人家憲政機關要處理的 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 為什麼你監察院要這樣子去處理呢 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 這是不宜的 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 您都點出了非常好的問題 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 我們憲法之下 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:30,000 | 我們現在五院 |
| 00:04:30,000 | 00:04:31,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:04:31,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 監察院、立法院、行政院 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 所以我們監察院 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 認為行政院有違法失職 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 就要彈劾糾正 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 這個不必等到釋憲 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 那是司法權 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 那麼你是監察權 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 監察跟司法是平行的 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 我們監察沒必要等司法院來認定 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 有沒有違憲 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 是的 是平行的 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 我們沒有要等你司法的判斷或如何 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 但是因為我們的調查有涉及到 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 我們所謂的誤望誤眾 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 我的資料一定要完整 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 我不能很片段的去處理 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 這個就是監察職權之所在 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 如果您成為監委以後 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 至少就行政院長不附屬 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 你會要申請立案 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 再來調查證據 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 不是就是說 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 因為這也是一個個案 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 不好意思這還是個案 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 但是我想因為憲法法庭的處理 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 現在已經不是個案了 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:35,000 | 好多法律都不被附屬 |
| 00:05:35,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 是我們台灣現在的行政院長 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 他不尊重我們立法權 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 一個人就可以把2300萬選出來的人民的立法院 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 所通過的法律案預算案 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 就不再附屬 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 這個是明顯違憲 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 所以已經是違法可以彈劾 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 但我認為中間是有些爭議的之所在 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 因為我們法律人 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 我們會對一個法律意見確實是會非常堅持的 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:09,000 | 但是法律意見並不單一 |
| 00:06:09,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 它有些就是爭議之所在 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:15,000 | 所以我認為這也是我到監院之後 |
| 00:06:15,000 | 00:06:17,000 | 我認為我處理事情 |
| 00:06:17,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 我不要只有一個角度 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 這也是之所以我辦理很多多言 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 我認為要從不同的角度一起看 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 我才會有一個勿忘勿忠 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 我法律人或許您問我 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 我有一個法律意見 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 我可以堅持 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 但是我身為監委 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 我就不該如此而已 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 我一定要全面去看 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 假設有憲法爭議 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:39,000 | 我認為有個爭議在 |
| 00:06:39,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 但每個人看法不一樣 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 我認為這裡出現了一個爭議 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 這個爭議又不是監法院可以處理的時候 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 我想我們就要再看一下這個爭議的處理 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:51,000 | 謝謝 |
| 00:06:51,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 另外一個問題 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 是 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 本黨主席柯文哲 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 在偵查階段 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 我們有偵查不公開 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 是 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 但是各位可以看到柯文哲主席的案件 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 在偵查不公開這個原則之下 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:11,000 | 竟然有一個媒體鏡周刊 |
| 00:07:11,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 他幾乎是同時的發佈新聞 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 甚至搶先發佈新聞 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 這個有沒有違反偵查不公開 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 其實偵查不公開 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 我個人以前在法界的時候 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 我就非常的注意 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 非常重視 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 注意而且重視 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 你既然是不要在偵查階段 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 這個是一個偵查不公開的階段 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 你到底外界是如何得知的呢 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 所以表示說您願意成為監委以後 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 對於北檢針對柯文哲主席的案件 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 那種訊息的外洩 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 如果有人違法要彈劾 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 有事情不對要糾正對不對 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 因為我回到一個 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:05,000 | 這會有個案的問題 |
| 00:08:05,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 但是假設我們看到 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 有違法失職的部分 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 因為這個就是說 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 我們調查就是你要有相當的事證 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 包括偵查不公開這件事情 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 他的外洩是怎麼樣的一個情況 |
| 00:08:21,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 那個流向是如何的 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 從哪裡流從哪裡出 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 為什麼外界會知道 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 既然媒體會先知道 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:31,000 | 如此等等的 |
| 00:08:31,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 這是一個偵查不公開的機制 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 我想要被這個 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 這是非常重要一個原則 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 非常重要一個原則 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:43,000 | 在你發言人報告裡面第四頁有提到 |
| 00:08:43,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 你有參與一個防治酷刑的機制 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 是 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 四刑計畫 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 是 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 聯合國人權組織他曾經認定 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 邊刑是一種酷刑 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:09:00,000 | 你認為邊刑 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 聯合國這個人權組織這樣一個認定 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 您認為如何 |
| 00:09:05,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 我其實我自己針對 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 我當時為什麼會 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 雖然是第一年 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:13,000 | 我對酷刑我是非常不能接受的 |
| 00:09:13,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 所以我當時就參加了那個四刑計畫 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 我進行訪視 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 我那個場次都是 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 就是要去了解到 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:25,000 | 他是不是有酷刑的一個發生等等一個狀況 |
| 00:09:25,000 | 00:09:27,000 | 在四刑的刑法之下 |
| 00:09:27,000 | 00:09:29,000 | 你都認為已經有酷刑 |
| 00:09:29,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 聯合國所認定的邊刑是否 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 是您所講的酷刑 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 聯合國認為的這個邊刑是不是 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 我不曉得 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 我不曉得這個邊刑是放在哪一個位階的一個討論 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:45,000 | 司法邊刑 |
| 00:09:45,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 他在司法邊刑 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:49,000 | Judicial Canon |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 我覺得這個議題就是說 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:53,000 | 我們現在很多這個法治面的問題 |
| 00:09:53,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 我之前其實是 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:58,000 | 有這個召集組織修法 |
| 00:09:58,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 他很多的議題 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 外界會有所質疑 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 但他要抓到他的核心價值 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 就是說你今天是在 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 就是說外界會從人民的角度 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 你犯了這麼重大的一個罪 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 我是不是要施刑刑 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 但是你換了一個角度 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 還有是不是有人權的角度 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 所以他必須是會在這一些價值裡面 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 他做出一個權衡 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 其實這個部分都賴這個 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 你們這個有深厚法律背景的 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:28,000 | 做這個法律的一個刑 |
| 00:10:28,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 所以張律師您覺得 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 邊刑是酷刑 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 酷刑 |