iVOD / 170907
本逐字稿內容由 AI 自動生成，可能包含錯誤、遺漏或誤譯之處。請使用者務必與原始影片音訊內容交叉比對，以確保資訊正確性。另可參考立法院日後釋出的正式公報以取得最終權威版本。
王鴻薇 @
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:13,800 | 好 謝謝主席 |
| 00:00:13,800 | 00:00:16,200 | 請貝提名人 |
| 00:00:16,200 | 00:00:19,200 | 請張貝提名人 貝選 |
| 00:00:19,200 | 00:00:26,120 | 好 貝提名人好 |
| 00:00:26,120 | 00:00:26,920 | 您好 |
| 00:00:26,920 | 00:00:28,880 | 我有看你的自傳 |
| 00:00:28,880 | 00:00:31,080 | 還有對於立法院 |
| 00:00:31,080 | 00:00:33,360 | 這個我們審查的報告 |
| 00:00:33,360 | 00:00:36,200 | 那您有特別強調 |
| 00:00:36,200 | 00:00:40,239 | 您有參加我們國家人權委員會的首年委員 |
| 00:00:40,239 | 00:00:43,680 | 所以按理您非常重視人權 |
| 00:00:43,680 | 00:00:48,120 | 那但是我們最近社會有幾件這個 |
| 00:00:48,120 | 00:00:50,640 | 攸關於一些人權問題 |
| 00:00:50,640 | 00:00:53,040 | 當然他也有高度的政治性 |
| 00:00:53,040 | 00:00:55,680 | 我想請教您的意見 |
| 00:00:55,680 | 00:00:58,640 | 比如說今年九合一選舉又到了 |
| 00:00:58,640 | 00:01:03,840 | 但是我們回顧過去幾個重大的選舉 |
| 00:01:03,840 | 00:01:08,600 | 都發生了以所謂的反滲透法 |
| 00:01:08,600 | 00:01:15,160 | 或者國安法在選前大舉的搜索或者是積壓 |
| 00:01:15,160 | 00:01:20,000 | 那這裡面其實比較我們為人所熟知的 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:24,400 | 包含在2022 24年的時候 |
| 00:01:24,400 | 00:01:26,880 | 2024年像我們立委選舉 |
| 00:01:26,920 | 00:01:30,560 | 我們台北市幾乎很多的里長 |
| 00:01:30,560 | 00:01:35,160 | 通通被約談甚至沒收手機 |
| 00:01:35,160 | 00:01:39,679 | 那另外在2024年選舉的時候 |
| 00:01:39,679 | 00:01:42,280 | 在選前的幾天 |
| 00:01:42,280 | 00:01:43,720 | 一個禮拜 |
| 00:01:43,720 | 00:01:46,160 | 有我們基隆的里長 |
| 00:01:46,160 | 00:01:50,240 | 因為率團到大陸去旅遊 |
| 00:01:50,240 | 00:01:51,880 | 他被積壓 |
| 00:01:51,880 | 00:01:53,479 | 而且被兩度積壓 |
| 00:01:53,520 | 00:01:57,200 | 他一直積壓到選前幾天才把他放出來 |
| 00:01:57,200 | 00:02:00,640 | 但是事後他都是無罪確定 |
| 00:02:00,640 | 00:02:02,760 | 而且他也因此 |
| 00:02:02,760 | 00:02:05,600 | 他可以得到這個刑事補償 |
| 00:02:05,600 | 00:02:07,280 | 大概九萬多塊 |
| 00:02:07,280 | 00:02:08,759 | 那另外 |
| 00:02:08,759 | 00:02:12,000 | 在同樣的2024年的大選的時候 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:13,280 | 他不是里長 |
| 00:02:13,280 | 00:02:15,280 | 是一個協會 |
| 00:02:15,280 | 00:02:19,080 | 他也是到中國大陸去旅遊 |
| 00:02:19,080 | 00:02:19,920 | 然後呢 |
| 00:02:20,760 | 00:02:22,359 | 也是說被辦 |
| 00:02:22,359 | 00:02:25,480 | 用反滲透法意圖影響選舉 |
| 00:02:25,480 | 00:02:27,560 | 但是包含一審二審 |
| 00:02:27,560 | 00:02:30,279 | 通通被判無罪 |
| 00:02:30,279 | 00:02:35,040 | 所以我相信在今年選舉或明年選舉 |
| 00:02:35,040 | 00:02:38,000 | 非常有可能這樣的一個 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:40,160 | 就是嚴重侵害人權 |
| 00:02:40,160 | 00:02:42,239 | 而且跟選舉有關係的 |
| 00:02:42,239 | 00:02:44,359 | 會再度的發生 |
| 00:02:44,359 | 00:02:46,920 | 我不曉得您的看法如何 |
| 00:02:46,920 | 00:02:49,640 | 另外我把它一起問完 |
| 00:02:49,839 | 00:02:50,760 | 另外 |
| 00:02:50,760 | 00:02:53,239 | 那麼這幾年呢 |
| 00:02:53,239 | 00:02:58,279 | 我們常常有社會秩序維護法來送辦 |
| 00:02:58,279 | 00:03:02,959 | 那如果你看過去的他的紀錄 |
| 00:03:02,959 | 00:03:07,480 | 從111年到115年 |
| 00:03:07,480 | 00:03:12,560 | 可以看到其實移送的案件絕大部分 |
| 00:03:12,560 | 00:03:16,040 | 根本是完全不成立的 |
| 00:03:16,040 | 00:03:17,320 | 完全不成立 |
| 00:03:17,359 | 00:03:21,600 | 都有大概七成或到八成左右 |
| 00:03:21,600 | 00:03:28,000 | 那也就是說社會秩序維護法的移送或者約談 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:30,600 | 其實從這個資料看起來 |
| 00:03:30,600 | 00:03:33,519 | 顯示他有濫用之虞 |
| 00:03:33,519 | 00:03:39,720 | 過去監察院也曾經對幾個案子提出了 |
| 00:03:39,720 | 00:03:42,840 | 提出了警告或者提醒 |
| 00:03:42,840 | 00:03:44,120 | 例如呢 |
| 00:03:44,160 | 00:03:48,280 | 曾經過去監察院就有新聞稿 |
| 00:03:48,280 | 00:03:49,440 | 認為呢 |
| 00:03:49,440 | 00:03:54,840 | 這些警察機關以所謂的社會秩序維護法 |
| 00:03:54,840 | 00:03:56,960 | 移送散佈謠言的案件 |
| 00:03:56,960 | 00:03:59,440 | 應該要審慎移送 |
| 00:03:59,440 | 00:04:05,720 | 而且應該遵循憲法保障言論自由的一個界限 |
| 00:04:05,720 | 00:04:09,040 | 那這幾年發生了幾件 |
| 00:04:09,040 | 00:04:11,800 | 大家一直都記憶猶新的 |
| 00:04:11,840 | 00:04:14,200 | 譬如說在網路上 |
| 00:04:14,200 | 00:04:18,360 | 有一個民眾他問陳菊還在嗎 |
| 00:04:18,360 | 00:04:19,200 | 結果呢 |
| 00:04:19,200 | 00:04:20,920 | 就四個小時 |
| 00:04:20,920 | 00:04:22,600 | 他就被約談了 |
| 00:04:22,600 | 00:04:24,480 | 那也有在那時候 |
| 00:04:24,480 | 00:04:26,560 | 這個超市雞蛋的時候 |
| 00:04:26,560 | 00:04:28,280 | 那時候我們非常缺雞蛋 |
| 00:04:28,280 | 00:04:31,920 | 有民眾把他家裡的所有臭雞蛋 |
| 00:04:31,920 | 00:04:33,200 | 拋到了網路上 |
| 00:04:33,200 | 00:04:35,560 | 他自己碰到的臭雞蛋 |
| 00:04:35,560 | 00:04:40,000 | 立刻還連夜的被約談 |
| 00:04:40,040 | 00:04:41,440 | 另外臺大教授 |
| 00:04:41,440 | 00:04:43,320 | 蘇鴻達教授 |
| 00:04:43,320 | 00:04:45,480 | 他在網路發表了說 |
| 00:04:45,480 | 00:04:47,600 | 誰消滅了故宮 |
| 00:04:47,600 | 00:04:50,560 | 而且是已經隔一年之久 |
| 00:04:50,560 | 00:04:53,400 | 還是一樣被約談 |
| 00:04:53,400 | 00:04:59,880 | 這幾個案件都讓外界認為是不是有濫用社會秩序維護法 |
| 00:04:59,880 | 00:05:02,160 | 沒有真正的保障人權 |
| 00:05:02,160 | 00:05:04,000 | 保障言論自由 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:05,720 | 像蘇鴻達那個案子 |
| 00:05:05,720 | 00:05:08,600 | 那個時候監察院也有提出質疑 |
| 00:05:08,640 | 00:05:13,160 | 說事實上已經隔了一年還去移送 |
| 00:05:13,160 | 00:05:15,480 | 所以我不曉得 |
| 00:05:15,480 | 00:05:20,080 | 這個被提名人針對我剛才所講的起見 |
| 00:05:20,080 | 00:05:23,360 | 不管是在選舉時候的大舉偵辦 |
| 00:05:23,360 | 00:05:25,240 | 最後無罪 |
| 00:05:25,240 | 00:05:26,760 | 選完了之後就沒事 |
| 00:05:26,760 | 00:05:28,360 | 也就無罪了 |
| 00:05:28,360 | 00:05:30,960 | 而很多的民眾 |
| 00:05:30,960 | 00:05:33,720 | 他被約談甚至被羈押 |
| 00:05:33,720 | 00:05:36,520 | 當然是有違反人權之虞 |
| 00:05:36,520 | 00:05:38,320 | 或者我剛才講的 |
| 00:05:38,360 | 00:05:42,520 | 濫用社會秩序維護法的這樣的一個狀況 |
| 00:05:42,520 | 00:05:45,400 | 被提名人你的看法是什麼 |
| 00:05:45,400 | 00:05:48,920 | 我想首先謝謝委員的提問 |
| 00:05:48,920 | 00:05:50,719 | 我想很多事情 |
| 00:05:50,719 | 00:05:53,960 | 我個人不只在人權會還有監委 |
| 00:05:53,960 | 00:05:56,520 | 我們看到很多的問題是 |
| 00:05:56,520 | 00:05:59,760 | 即便像現在有相關的法令機制 |
| 00:05:59,760 | 00:06:03,480 | 但是執行面是一個最大的考驗 |
| 00:06:03,480 | 00:06:06,520 | 也就是說很多在執行面的部分 |
| 00:06:06,560 | 00:06:12,919 | 他在處理上確實沒有顧及到人民權益或人民的體認 |
| 00:06:12,919 | 00:06:18,039 | 所以這個部分常常也就是會引發外界質疑之所在 |
| 00:06:18,039 | 00:06:21,799 | 所以這個部分我想那個是要深自期許 |
| 00:06:21,799 | 00:06:26,159 | 下次不再做這樣一個模式處理的一個問題 |
| 00:06:26,159 | 00:06:29,200 | 再者人權會他有一個功能 |
| 00:06:29,200 | 00:06:32,640 | 也就是針對假設像這樣的人權議題 |
| 00:06:32,640 | 00:06:34,359 | 他也是多次的發生 |
| 00:06:34,359 | 00:06:36,240 | 他已經反覆的發生 |
| 00:06:36,240 | 00:06:38,800 | 而且我們也看到了一些問題 |
| 00:06:38,800 | 00:06:42,160 | 這些問題有違反人權之餘的 |
| 00:06:42,160 | 00:06:44,400 | 這樣的情況我們會考慮 |
| 00:06:44,400 | 00:06:47,200 | 要不要進入已經是一個結構性的問題 |
| 00:06:47,200 | 00:06:49,200 | 他不只是個案 |
| 00:06:49,200 | 00:06:51,120 | 既然介入結構性的問題 |
| 00:06:51,120 | 00:06:53,840 | 就要用一個結構性系統性的問題 |
| 00:06:53,840 | 00:06:57,200 | 把完整的系統原因把它找出來 |
| 00:06:57,200 | 00:06:58,640 | 找出來之後 |
| 00:06:58,640 | 00:06:59,800 | 我們不只 |
| 00:06:59,800 | 00:07:02,640 | 我想外界也會說你只提個專案報告 |
| 00:07:02,640 | 00:07:05,640 | 我們要提出政策建議 |
| 00:07:05,640 | 00:07:07,640 | 我們提出政策建議之後 |
| 00:07:07,640 | 00:07:09,919 | 後續重點是追蹤 |
| 00:07:09,919 | 00:07:10,760 | 菲律賓人 |
| 00:07:10,760 | 00:07:14,039 | 因為你之前是監委 |
| 00:07:14,039 | 00:07:16,280 | 因為你並不是這次新被提名 |
| 00:07:16,280 | 00:07:18,640 | 我剛才講的社會秩序維護法 |
| 00:07:18,640 | 00:07:20,039 | 這樣的被濫用 |
| 00:07:20,039 | 00:07:21,840 | 他的時間其實是蠻久的 |
| 00:07:21,840 | 00:07:25,520 | 我剛才甚至提出從111年開始 |
| 00:07:25,520 | 00:07:28,800 | 可以回溯到111年 |
| 00:07:28,800 | 00:07:32,960 | 其實整個的這個依社會秩序維護法移送 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:35,640 | 但是事實上不乏的比例極高 |
| 00:07:35,640 | 00:07:37,080 | 可是非常遺憾的 |
| 00:07:37,080 | 00:07:40,520 | 我沒有看到那時候的監察院 |
| 00:07:40,520 | 00:07:43,760 | 對這個部分有些什麼特別的 |
| 00:07:43,760 | 00:07:46,280 | 這個的一個提案 |
| 00:07:46,280 | 00:07:48,280 | 或者是提出檢討 |
| 00:07:48,280 | 00:07:50,000 | 另外最近還發生了 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:51,520 | 就是大家很重視食安問題 |
| 00:07:51,520 | 00:07:54,760 | 我剛才有注意到你也很重視食安 |
| 00:07:54,760 | 00:07:59,080 | 那麼在網路上有一個影片叫由不得你 |
| 00:07:59,080 | 00:08:00,120 | 這個時候 |
| 00:08:00,120 | 00:08:01,440 | 警察上門 |
| 00:08:01,480 | 00:08:06,520 | 以所謂的他是身為AI的變照聲音 |
| 00:08:06,520 | 00:08:08,240 | 然後直接上門 |
| 00:08:08,240 | 00:08:10,360 | 但是經過我們的質詢 |
| 00:08:10,360 | 00:08:13,240 | 發現了很重要的兩件事情 |
| 00:08:13,240 | 00:08:14,640 | 第一件事情 |
| 00:08:14,640 | 00:08:16,720 | 就是警察上門的時候 |
| 00:08:16,720 | 00:08:18,720 | 根本沒有完成鑑定 |
| 00:08:18,720 | 00:08:20,760 | 沒有完成任何的鑑定 |
| 00:08:20,760 | 00:08:21,720 | 第二 |
| 00:08:21,720 | 00:08:23,480 | 警察上門之後 |
| 00:08:23,480 | 00:08:28,520 | 根本沒有跟這個就是他找的人去詳細說明 |
| 00:08:28,520 | 00:08:31,400 | 你到底是違反哪一個條法律 |
| 00:08:31,400 | 00:08:35,959 | 所以這個事件其實也引起了非常多的爭議 |
| 00:08:35,959 | 00:08:36,880 | 也就是說 |
| 00:08:36,880 | 00:08:40,159 | 其實我們現在就是在政治上 |
| 00:08:40,159 | 00:08:43,280 | 我們現在社會確實在政治上是對立的 |
| 00:08:43,280 | 00:08:47,400 | 但是如果我們的司法或者警察 |
| 00:08:47,400 | 00:08:51,640 | 檢調不能夠恪守這些司法中立 |
| 00:08:51,640 | 00:08:54,920 | 以及這些人權的界限的時候 |
| 00:08:54,920 | 00:08:59,520 | 那麼就非常容易讓我們的國家倒退 |
| 00:08:59,520 | 00:09:02,360 | 讓人家以為是警察國家 |
| 00:09:02,360 | 00:09:06,079 | 那另外我再請教這個被提名人 |
| 00:09:06,079 | 00:09:08,520 | 我看到你的報告裡面 |
| 00:09:08,520 | 00:09:09,640 | 有針對 |
| 00:09:09,640 | 00:09:12,160 | 你曾經針對台糖 |
| 00:09:12,160 | 00:09:17,720 | 這個台南土地被偷盜廢土的處理不當 |
| 00:09:17,720 | 00:09:19,360 | 也有做調查 |
| 00:09:19,360 | 00:09:22,000 | 最近台糖有一個問題 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:25,920 | 我自己個人覺得是沒有辦法接受的 |
| 00:09:25,959 | 00:09:29,959 | 就是台糖被偷盜土地很嚴重 |
| 00:09:29,959 | 00:09:34,479 | 一樣台糖被欠聚在 |
| 00:09:34,479 | 00:09:39,319 | 就是我奶人欠他一億七千萬到現在為止 |
| 00:09:39,319 | 00:09:40,439 | 通通不還 |
| 00:09:40,439 | 00:09:43,479 | 你對於台糖身為國營事業 |
| 00:09:43,479 | 00:09:46,000 | 這樣的做法你的看法是什麼 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:46,719 | 是 |
| 00:09:46,719 | 00:09:49,439 | 我是不是前面有個食安問題 |
| 00:09:49,439 | 00:09:51,199 | 我先分兩個部分 |
| 00:09:51,199 | 00:09:52,760 | 第一個 |
| 00:09:52,800 | 00:09:56,240 | 食安問題如果有一部分是進入司法調查 |
| 00:09:56,240 | 00:09:58,439 | 我們會尊重司法核心 |
| 00:09:58,439 | 00:10:00,760 | 但是假設有執行不當 |
| 00:10:00,760 | 00:10:04,120 | 涉及到公務機關以及警察的 |
| 00:10:04,120 | 00:10:05,520 | 維師的部分 |
| 00:10:05,520 | 00:10:08,600 | 這就是我們監察院要處理的部分 |
| 00:10:08,600 | 00:10:10,040 | 這首先的說明 |
| 00:10:10,040 | 00:10:11,280 | 再者我想食安 |
| 00:10:11,280 | 00:10:15,000 | 我想大家非常關心從源頭通報 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:16,840 | 還有包括下架 |
| 00:10:16,840 | 00:10:21,400 | 這都是我們深切的認為很多產生的一個問題 |
| 00:10:21,439 | 00:10:23,760 | 再者就是台糖案的部分 |
| 00:10:23,760 | 00:10:24,880 | 我想第一個部分 |
| 00:10:24,880 | 00:10:26,400 | 委員您相當用心 |
| 00:10:26,400 | 00:10:29,959 | 我們確實有處理到這種偷盜這個部分 |
| 00:10:52,400 | 00:10:53,140 | 來 |
| 00:10:53,140 | 00:10:54,600 | 不讓他核心 |
| 00:11:18,840 | 00:11:20,800 | 謝謝 |