iVOD / 170846
本逐字稿內容由 AI 自動生成，可能包含錯誤、遺漏或誤譯之處。請使用者務必與原始影片音訊內容交叉比對，以確保資訊正確性。另可參考立法院日後釋出的正式公報以取得最終權威版本。
黃秀芳 @ 第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:06,400 | 謝謝主席 我們先請部長 |
| 00:00:06,400 | 00:00:09,400 | 好 請時務部長 |
| 00:00:09,400 | 00:00:12,600 | 黃委員好 |
| 00:00:12,600 | 00:00:15,300 | 部長 從上午到現在 |
| 00:00:15,300 | 00:00:18,000 | 其實我也覺得你解釋的很辛苦 |
| 00:00:18,000 | 00:00:20,200 | 那我也希望就是說 |
| 00:00:20,200 | 00:00:23,500 | 這個民眾的疑慮能夠一次講清楚 |
| 00:00:23,500 | 00:00:27,400 | 那今天早上提出來的這個臨時提案 |
| 00:00:27,400 | 00:00:29,900 | 該公布的你就是要完整的公布 |
| 00:00:29,900 | 00:00:31,900 | 這個是應該就是第一次 |
| 00:00:31,900 | 00:00:34,600 | 讓所有的民眾能夠看得很清楚 |
| 00:00:34,600 | 00:00:36,500 | 到底是中央政府蓋牌 |
| 00:00:36,500 | 00:00:38,600 | 或者是地方政府蓋牌 |
| 00:00:38,600 | 00:00:41,400 | 那我接下來我想請教 |
| 00:00:41,400 | 00:00:45,000 | 因為針對今天很多委員一直在關心 |
| 00:00:45,000 | 00:00:47,700 | 就是說台糖沒有通報 |
| 00:00:47,700 | 00:00:49,500 | 那我想請教就是說 |
| 00:00:49,500 | 00:00:51,599 | 如果按照這樣的邏輯 |
| 00:00:51,599 | 00:00:56,300 | 如果台糖今天真的有通報 |
| 00:00:56,300 | 00:00:58,599 | 如果台糖今天真的有通報 |
| 00:00:58,600 | 00:01:00,200 | 高雄市政府 |
| 00:01:00,200 | 00:01:03,400 | 那高雄市政府也通報台中市政府 |
| 00:01:03,400 | 00:01:04,500 | 那台中市政府 |
| 00:01:04,500 | 00:01:07,900 | 他可以去扣這一批原油嗎 |
| 00:01:07,900 | 00:01:09,800 | 就是去扣這一批的這個 |
| 00:01:09,800 | 00:01:10,500 | 脫膠原油 |
| 00:01:10,500 | 00:01:10,900 | 對 |
| 00:01:10,900 | 00:01:12,400 | 不會 他不會扣 |
| 00:01:12,400 | 00:01:14,300 | 因為他接下來還有製程 |
| 00:01:14,300 | 00:01:16,800 | 所以他要從最終去驗它 |
| 00:01:16,800 | 00:01:19,800 | 如果他最終產出來的實用油脂 |
| 00:01:19,800 | 00:01:20,800 | 驗出來超標 |
| 00:01:20,800 | 00:01:21,800 | 那當然就不可以 |
| 00:01:21,800 | 00:01:23,000 | 是 好 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:24,300 | 所以就是說這個 |
| 00:01:24,300 | 00:01:26,100 | 我們目前也沒有訂這個 |
| 00:01:26,100 | 00:01:28,200 | 脫膠原油的這個標準嗎 |
| 00:01:28,200 | 00:01:29,800 | 對 就是說黃豆 |
| 00:01:29,800 | 00:01:31,200 | 它是從黃豆來 |
| 00:01:31,200 | 00:01:32,300 | 所以黃豆 |
| 00:01:32,300 | 00:01:34,400 | 然後去壓榨出來的 |
| 00:01:34,400 | 00:01:36,500 | 就第一層的油是脫膠原油 |
| 00:01:36,500 | 00:01:39,300 | 所以黃豆我們也沒有訂本偏皮標準 |
| 00:01:39,300 | 00:01:39,700 | 是 |
| 00:01:39,700 | 00:01:42,000 | 脫膠原油也沒有本偏皮標準 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:44,900 | 我們是訂在最後的實用油的部分 |
| 00:01:44,900 | 00:01:45,900 | 有本偏皮標準 |
| 00:01:45,900 | 00:01:46,400 | 是 |
| 00:01:46,400 | 00:01:47,100 | 對 好 |
| 00:01:47,100 | 00:01:49,700 | 所以在我們目前的食安法當中 |
| 00:01:49,700 | 00:01:52,500 | 這個以台糖為例的話 |
| 00:01:52,500 | 00:01:54,600 | 他有義務要通報嗎 |
| 00:01:54,600 | 00:01:56,200 | 如果以目前食安法 |
| 00:01:56,900 | 00:02:00,200 | 通報的義務是來自於我們對標準的訂定 |
| 00:02:00,200 | 00:02:03,800 | 所以有一些如果是不得檢出的 |
| 00:02:03,800 | 00:02:05,100 | 就不得添加的 |
| 00:02:05,100 | 00:02:06,200 | 那就有 |
| 00:02:06,200 | 00:02:07,900 | 那如果有訂標準的 |
| 00:02:07,900 | 00:02:09,400 | 那當然是針對那個 |
| 00:02:09,400 | 00:02:12,000 | 超過標準的那個品項的部分 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:12,900 | 他就要通報 |
| 00:02:12,900 | 00:02:13,400 | 是 |
| 00:02:13,400 | 00:02:14,600 | 所以換言之 |
| 00:02:14,600 | 00:02:17,700 | 他今天所拿的是脫膠原油 |
| 00:02:17,700 | 00:02:20,500 | 脫膠原油主管機關並沒有訂出 |
| 00:02:20,500 | 00:02:21,800 | 扁平比的標準 |
| 00:02:21,800 | 00:02:22,300 | 是 |
| 00:02:22,300 | 00:02:24,000 | 他只是他個人 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:25,600 | 他採購的標準 |
| 00:02:25,600 | 00:02:27,200 | 他自己訂了一個採購標準 |
| 00:02:27,200 | 00:02:27,700 | 是 |
| 00:02:27,700 | 00:02:29,500 | 所以這個是沒有 |
| 00:02:29,500 | 00:02:31,500 | 在食安法裡面是沒有 |
| 00:02:31,500 | 00:02:32,900 | 強制通報的義務的 |
| 00:02:32,900 | 00:02:33,400 | 是 |
| 00:02:33,400 | 00:02:33,900 | 好 |
| 00:02:33,900 | 00:02:36,799 | 那如果說未來我們修食安法 |
| 00:02:36,799 | 00:02:37,299 | 嗯 |
| 00:02:37,299 | 00:02:38,600 | 未來修食安法 |
| 00:02:38,600 | 00:02:41,600 | 將這個原本的這個 |
| 00:02:41,600 | 00:02:43,100 | 可能脫膠原油 |
| 00:02:43,100 | 00:02:45,299 | 也制定這樣的一個標準 |
| 00:02:45,299 | 00:02:46,700 | 你覺得可行嗎 |
| 00:02:46,700 | 00:02:49,100 | 這個會造成實務上很大的困難 |
| 00:02:49,100 | 00:02:49,600 | 是 |
| 00:02:49,600 | 00:02:52,799 | 因為如果今天我們在脫膠原油的這個階段 |
| 00:02:52,799 | 00:02:53,799 | 驗到的是 |
| 00:02:53,799 | 00:02:55,500 | 2.4ppb |
| 00:02:55,500 | 00:02:56,000 | 是 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 可是根據他後面的 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 脫酸 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:02:59,700 | 脫色 |
| 00:02:59,700 | 00:03:00,700 | 脫臭 |
| 00:03:00,700 | 00:03:03,200 | 他是可以降低80%的 |
| 00:03:03,200 | 00:03:04,000 | 這個 |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:05,500 | 這個扁平比標準 |
| 00:03:05,500 | 00:03:07,200 | 結果就會造成 |
| 00:03:07,200 | 00:03:09,200 | 他一旦驗出脫膠原油 |
| 00:03:09,200 | 00:03:10,200 | 2.4 |
| 00:03:10,200 | 00:03:11,400 | 超標一點點 |
| 00:03:11,400 | 00:03:12,800 | 他就全部停下來 |
| 00:03:12,800 | 00:03:13,300 | 是 |
| 00:03:13,300 | 00:03:14,500 | 這個就不能用 |
| 00:03:14,500 | 00:03:15,500 | 那這個 |
| 00:03:15,500 | 00:03:18,000 | 對於我們這個油的產量 |
| 00:03:18,000 | 00:03:19,300 | 會有很大的問題 |
| 00:03:19,300 | 00:03:22,000 | 我們的油的產量都是靠進口 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:22,800 | 原 |
| 00:03:22,800 | 00:03:24,100 | 那個黃豆 |
| 00:03:24,100 | 00:03:25,300 | 進來煉油的 |
| 00:03:25,300 | 00:03:26,100 | 那這個會 |
| 00:03:26,100 | 00:03:27,100 | 大幅的 |
| 00:03:27,100 | 00:03:29,600 | 這個對食物也是一種浪費 |
| 00:03:29,600 | 00:03:30,600 | 說實在話 |
| 00:03:30,600 | 00:03:32,000 | 所以我們是從 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:33,500 | 製程當中 |
| 00:03:33,500 | 00:03:34,500 | 去掌控 |
| 00:03:34,500 | 00:03:35,500 | 讓他產生 |
| 00:03:35,500 | 00:03:37,500 | 因為他不是外來添加 |
| 00:03:37,500 | 00:03:39,300 | 他是一個有機物 |
| 00:03:39,300 | 00:03:41,600 | 在這個製造的過程當中 |
| 00:03:41,600 | 00:03:43,400 | 黃豆的本身會產生 |
| 00:03:43,400 | 00:03:44,700 | 製造的過程當中 |
| 00:03:44,700 | 00:03:46,700 | 因為溫度的變化他會產生 |
| 00:03:46,700 | 00:03:49,400 | 所以你要在製程上去把他控制好 |
| 00:03:49,400 | 00:03:50,600 | 那就可以達到 |
| 00:03:50,600 | 00:03:51,200 | 我們 |
| 00:03:51,200 | 00:03:53,300 | 這個符合安全標準的 |
| 00:03:53,300 | 00:03:53,900 | 食品 |
| 00:03:53,900 | 00:03:54,400 | 是 |
| 00:03:54,400 | 00:03:54,900 | 好 |
| 00:03:54,900 | 00:03:56,700 | 那我是希望就是說 |
| 00:03:56,700 | 00:03:57,600 | 其實 |
| 00:03:57,600 | 00:03:59,600 | 這麼多委員在關心 |
| 00:03:59,600 | 00:04:01,800 | 就是說食用油的這個安全 |
| 00:04:01,800 | 00:04:03,900 | 當然未來我們也希望就是說 |
| 00:04:03,900 | 00:04:05,700 | 這個修食安法 |
| 00:04:05,700 | 00:04:06,500 | 那 |
| 00:04:06,500 | 00:04:07,400 | 民眾 |
| 00:04:07,400 | 00:04:08,100 | 擔心的 |
| 00:04:08,100 | 00:04:09,100 | 或者是委員 |
| 00:04:09,100 | 00:04:10,800 | 希望再加嚴的部分 |
| 00:04:10,800 | 00:04:11,200 | 當然這個 |
| 00:04:11,200 | 00:04:12,800 | 我覺得這個都可以討論 |
| 00:04:12,800 | 00:04:13,400 | 對 |
| 00:04:13,400 | 00:04:15,800 | 即使就是說未來這個脫膠原油 |
| 00:04:15,800 | 00:04:18,000 | 他是做成食用油的話 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:19,500 | 其實我覺得在這上面 |
| 00:04:19,500 | 00:04:22,500 | 其實我覺得也可以做一些規範 |
| 00:04:22,500 | 00:04:23,000 | 那 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:24,200 | 當然 |
| 00:04:24,300 | 00:04:25,700 | 我一直覺得說 |
| 00:04:25,700 | 00:04:28,200 | 如果今天地方政府能夠 |
| 00:04:28,200 | 00:04:28,800 | 這個 |
| 00:04:28,800 | 00:04:30,400 | 多用點心 |
| 00:04:30,400 | 00:04:32,400 | 不是八年才驗一次 |
| 00:04:32,400 | 00:04:34,700 | 也許他半年就去驗一次 |
| 00:04:34,700 | 00:04:35,700 | 茶場也好 |
| 00:04:35,700 | 00:04:37,099 | 或者是抽檢也好 |
| 00:04:37,099 | 00:04:38,300 | 抽驗也好 |
| 00:04:38,300 | 00:04:42,300 | 就不會有造成今天的這樣的一個狀況 |
| 00:04:42,300 | 00:04:43,599 | 所以我也希望就是說 |
| 00:04:43,599 | 00:04:45,800 | 未來我們如果再有修 |
| 00:04:45,800 | 00:04:48,000 | 就是我們未來要修這個食安法 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:50,200 | 中央政府跟地方政府的權責 |
| 00:04:50,200 | 00:04:51,099 | 我覺得應該 |
| 00:04:51,099 | 00:04:52,000 | 就是要 |
| 00:04:52,100 | 00:04:54,400 | 很明確的把它制定下來 |
| 00:04:54,400 | 00:04:56,400 | 如果今天我們修食安法 |
| 00:04:56,400 | 00:04:57,700 | 我們把這個法 |
| 00:04:57,700 | 00:04:58,900 | 這個修得很嚴 |
| 00:04:58,900 | 00:04:59,400 | 好 |
| 00:04:59,400 | 00:05:02,100 | 那地方政府他也是一樣 |
| 00:05:02,100 | 00:05:04,900 | 可能八年才去驗一次 |
| 00:05:04,900 | 00:05:07,100 | 那如果類似這樣子狀況的話 |
| 00:05:07,100 | 00:05:08,200 | 其實未來如果 |
| 00:05:08,200 | 00:05:10,200 | 這個食用油再出問題 |
| 00:05:10,200 | 00:05:11,500 | 我覺得這個 |
| 00:05:11,500 | 00:05:13,000 | 沒有什麼好意外的 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 如果地方政府他也不用心 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:16,200 | 然後對於 |
| 00:05:16,200 | 00:05:18,000 | 這個抽驗茶場 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 多用點心的話 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:19,900 | 其實我覺得 |
| 00:05:20,400 | 00:05:22,099 | 這個修法修得再嚴 |
| 00:05:22,099 | 00:05:23,900 | 那地方政府他也不作為的話 |
| 00:05:23,900 | 00:05:24,900 | 其實我覺得 |
| 00:05:24,900 | 00:05:27,599 | 這種事情還是會發生 |
| 00:05:27,599 | 00:05:29,400 | 所以我希望就是說 |
| 00:05:30,400 | 00:05:31,900 | 我也相信 |
| 00:05:31,900 | 00:05:33,700 | 所有的民眾不希望就是說 |
| 00:05:33,700 | 00:05:34,799 | 中央跟地方 |
| 00:05:34,799 | 00:05:36,200 | 大家好像互踢皮球 |
| 00:05:36,200 | 00:05:37,200 | 會覺得說 |
| 00:05:37,200 | 00:05:38,700 | 這個是誰的責任 |
| 00:05:38,700 | 00:05:41,000 | 當然食品出現問題 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:43,599 | 是中央跟地方都有責任 |
| 00:05:43,599 | 00:05:45,900 | 那怎麼樣再讓這種事情 |
| 00:05:45,900 | 00:05:47,099 | 以後不要再發生 |
| 00:05:47,099 | 00:05:48,700 | 我覺得這個是最重要的 |
| 00:05:48,700 | 00:05:49,200 | 對 |
| 00:05:49,200 | 00:05:50,200 | 當然就是說 |
| 00:05:51,099 | 00:05:52,099 | 大家一直想說 |
| 00:05:52,099 | 00:05:54,800 | 要追根究底查明原因 |
| 00:05:54,800 | 00:05:56,500 | 我也覺得應該要查明原因 |
| 00:05:56,500 | 00:05:58,900 | 到底是哪一個環節出錯 |
| 00:05:58,900 | 00:05:59,900 | 那未來 |
| 00:05:59,900 | 00:06:01,400 | 制定法律之後 |
| 00:06:01,400 | 00:06:03,099 | 或者是加嚴之後 |
| 00:06:03,099 | 00:06:04,099 | 是不是真的可以 |
| 00:06:04,099 | 00:06:05,599 | 杜絕這樣的事情 |
| 00:06:05,599 | 00:06:07,500 | 再次的發生 |
| 00:06:07,500 | 00:06:08,700 | 所以我希望就是說 |
| 00:06:08,700 | 00:06:10,400 | 部長針對今天 |
| 00:06:10,400 | 00:06:11,599 | 所有的委員 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:14,599 | 大家都很關心 |
| 00:06:14,599 | 00:06:16,400 | 那我覺得一點就是說 |
| 00:06:16,400 | 00:06:17,900 | 大家一直在追究 |
| 00:06:17,900 | 00:06:19,500 | 可能是中央部會 |
| 00:06:19,500 | 00:06:21,700 | 可能是衛福部 |
| 00:06:21,700 | 00:06:23,200 | 食藥署的責任 |
| 00:06:23,200 | 00:06:24,400 | 大家也很少去提 |
| 00:06:24,400 | 00:06:26,299 | 就是那為什麼地方政府 |
| 00:06:26,299 | 00:06:27,900 | 這個也是你的責任 |
| 00:06:27,900 | 00:06:29,000 | 那為什麼大家 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:30,799 | 也不會去講一下說 |
| 00:06:30,799 | 00:06:31,700 | 為什麼地方政府 |
| 00:06:31,700 | 00:06:33,099 | 你八年才驗一次 |
| 00:06:33,099 | 00:06:35,799 | 甚至有的根本都沒有驗 |
| 00:06:35,799 | 00:06:37,400 | 所以我覺得 |
| 00:06:37,400 | 00:06:38,500 | 這個中央跟地方 |
| 00:06:38,500 | 00:06:39,700 | 大家都有責任 |
| 00:06:39,700 | 00:06:41,099 | 也不要去卸責 |
| 00:06:41,099 | 00:06:42,400 | 那未來要怎麼樣 |
| 00:06:42,400 | 00:06:44,900 | 讓這種事情不要再發生 |
| 00:06:44,900 | 00:06:47,400 | 另外就是說通報的責任 |
| 00:06:47,400 | 00:06:49,099 | 如果今天以台糖的話 |
| 00:06:49,099 | 00:06:53,200 | 其實他是沒有通報的這個義務 |
| 00:06:53,200 | 00:06:54,900 | 那當然台糖他 |
| 00:06:54,900 | 00:06:57,599 | 本於這個企業的責任 |
| 00:06:57,599 | 00:06:58,900 | 如果今天 |
| 00:06:58,900 | 00:07:00,900 | 如果我們的這個 |
| 00:07:00,900 | 00:07:02,599 | 食安法修完之後 |
| 00:07:02,599 | 00:07:05,099 | 那也許會對於買方 |
| 00:07:05,099 | 00:07:07,000 | 如果像台糖的話 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:08,299 | 你有查驗 |
| 00:07:08,299 | 00:07:10,500 | 查到這個脫交原有 |
| 00:07:10,500 | 00:07:12,799 | 超乎你們自己本身的標準 |
| 00:07:12,799 | 00:07:14,000 | 那未來 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:15,599 | 未來是不是也要 |
| 00:07:15,700 | 00:07:17,500 | 台糖這邊也要通報 |
| 00:07:17,500 | 00:07:18,400 | 不只是台糖 |
| 00:07:18,400 | 00:07:21,400 | 其他的食品廠也要通報 |
| 00:07:21,400 | 00:07:23,600 | 是不是朝著這個方向去進行 |
| 00:07:23,600 | 00:07:25,000 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:27,200 | 當然在全民一起監督 |
| 00:07:27,200 | 00:07:29,300 | 食安的這個精神之下 |
| 00:07:29,300 | 00:07:30,600 | 我們都鼓勵 |
| 00:07:30,600 | 00:07:32,100 | 不論是消費者 |
| 00:07:32,100 | 00:07:34,400 | 不論是任何一個城市的業者 |
| 00:07:34,400 | 00:07:36,100 | 有什麼發現異常 |
| 00:07:36,100 | 00:07:37,600 | 都可以來通報 |
| 00:07:37,600 | 00:07:38,600 | 這個是沒有問題 |
| 00:07:38,600 | 00:07:40,600 | 都跟地方主管機關去通報 |
| 00:07:40,600 | 00:07:41,900 | 讓他有預警 |
| 00:07:41,900 | 00:07:44,000 | 早一點去介入是可以的 |
| 00:07:44,100 | 00:07:46,000 | 但是如果回到法律面 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:47,200 | 要去裁罰 |
| 00:07:47,200 | 00:07:49,300 | 就是強制通報的義務 |
| 00:07:49,300 | 00:07:50,800 | 要去裁罰的時候 |
| 00:07:50,800 | 00:07:53,000 | 那我們也必須依法有據 |
| 00:07:53,000 | 00:07:54,500 | 所以我剛剛一直講 |
| 00:07:54,500 | 00:07:55,800 | 台糖如果 |
| 00:07:55,800 | 00:07:56,900 | 他要來通報 |
| 00:07:56,900 | 00:07:58,000 | 不是不行 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:07:59,500 | 他可以通報 |
| 00:07:59,500 | 00:08:01,500 | 但是如果要來苛責說 |
| 00:08:01,500 | 00:08:03,500 | 你是不是因為沒有通報 |
| 00:08:03,500 | 00:08:05,200 | 要去處罰他 |
| 00:08:05,200 | 00:08:07,900 | 那我們就必須回到法規面 |
| 00:08:07,900 | 00:08:10,000 | 我們這個法律的原則 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 法規定他一定要通報 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:13,400 | 但是為食安 |
| 00:08:13,400 | 00:08:15,000 | 大家一起來監督 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:16,400 | 大家來通報 |
| 00:08:16,400 | 00:08:18,400 | 這個是我們支持的方向 |
| 00:08:18,400 | 00:08:19,400 | 好 |
| 00:08:19,400 | 00:08:21,400 | 那這個我剛剛一直在講 |
| 00:08:21,400 | 00:08:22,400 | 如果地方政府 |
| 00:08:22,400 | 00:08:25,400 | 他有積極落實稽查或抽菸 |
| 00:08:25,400 | 00:08:28,400 | 就是讓業者不會有心存僥倖 |
| 00:08:28,400 | 00:08:31,900 | 那這個我看到就是說 |
| 00:08:31,900 | 00:08:34,900 | 地方政府最近可能就有的罰300 |
| 00:08:34,900 | 00:08:36,400 | 罰300萬 |
| 00:08:36,400 | 00:08:37,900 | 那像這樣子的話 |
| 00:08:37,900 | 00:08:39,900 | 事後的裁罰很多 |
| 00:08:39,900 | 00:08:41,900 | 就是罰個300萬 |
| 00:08:41,900 | 00:08:43,400 | 其實對一個食品業者 |
| 00:08:43,400 | 00:08:45,400 | 或者是對於這個 |
| 00:08:45,400 | 00:08:47,900 | 自有的這個像中聯有指的話 |
| 00:08:47,900 | 00:08:49,900 | 其實對他們來講是不痛不癢 |
| 00:08:49,900 | 00:08:51,400 | 那很 |
| 00:08:51,400 | 00:08:54,400 | 就是隨著這個案件的發展 |
| 00:08:54,400 | 00:08:56,400 | 就是我們看到就是說一罪 |
| 00:08:56,400 | 00:08:58,900 | 一罪不二罰的這樣的一個情況 |
| 00:08:58,900 | 00:09:00,900 | 到最後有可能 |
| 00:09:00,900 | 00:09:02,400 | 就只有罰一樣 |
| 00:09:02,400 | 00:09:04,400 | 那可能很多民眾會覺得 |
| 00:09:04,400 | 00:09:07,900 | 對於這個食用有的這個安全 |
| 00:09:07,900 | 00:09:10,400 | 如果到最後是輕輕放下的話 |
| 00:09:10,400 | 00:09:12,900 | 其實很多人可能會沒辦法接受 |
| 00:09:12,900 | 00:09:15,400 | 因為這一罪不兩罰 |
| 00:09:15,400 | 00:09:17,400 | 像類似這樣的一個狀況 |
| 00:09:17,400 | 00:09:18,400 | 所以我覺得說 |
| 00:09:18,400 | 00:09:21,400 | 未來這個食安法的這個修法 |
| 00:09:21,400 | 00:09:23,400 | 其實我覺得應該也是 |
| 00:09:23,400 | 00:09:26,400 | 我們未來在我們衛環委員會本身 |
| 00:09:26,400 | 00:09:27,900 | 就要去做的事情 |
| 00:09:27,900 | 00:09:28,900 | 如果今天再次的 |
| 00:09:28,900 | 00:09:31,400 | 當然要釐清責任這個沒有問題 |
| 00:09:31,400 | 00:09:34,400 | 釐清原因釐清責任 |
| 00:09:34,400 | 00:09:35,900 | 我覺得這個都沒有問題 |
| 00:09:35,900 | 00:09:37,900 | 可是最重要就是我們最終 |
| 00:09:37,900 | 00:09:39,900 | 還是要把這部法再修 |
| 00:09:39,900 | 00:09:41,900 | 修得更嚴謹一點 |
| 00:09:41,900 | 00:09:44,400 | 如果按照目前的狀況來看 |
| 00:09:44,400 | 00:09:46,400 | 那台糖他根本就沒有通報 |
| 00:09:46,400 | 00:09:48,900 | 通報的這個義務跟責任嘛 |
| 00:09:48,900 | 00:09:50,900 | 對不對如果以法來講 |
| 00:09:50,900 | 00:09:52,900 | 是這樣子嘛對不對 |
| 00:09:52,900 | 00:09:54,400 | 目前的法是這樣 |
| 00:09:54,400 | 00:09:58,400 | 所以如果大家覺得要再擴大 |
| 00:09:58,400 | 00:10:00,400 | 這個通報的義務 |
| 00:10:00,400 | 00:10:02,400 | 更嚴格的通報義務 |
| 00:10:02,400 | 00:10:03,400 | 這個其實可以 |
| 00:10:03,400 | 00:10:05,400 | 在後續修法的時候大家討論 |
| 00:10:05,400 | 00:10:07,400 | 好那我也希望就是說 |
| 00:10:07,400 | 00:10:09,900 | 在衛環委員會所有的委員 |
| 00:10:09,900 | 00:10:11,900 | 應該就是就事論事 |
| 00:10:11,900 | 00:10:15,400 | 然後就整個這個目前的這個狀況 |
| 00:10:15,400 | 00:10:17,900 | 應該儘速來修法 |
| 00:10:17,900 | 00:10:19,900 | 既然從7月 |
| 00:10:19,900 | 00:10:21,900 | 我記得我第一次質詢的時候 |
| 00:10:21,900 | 00:10:24,900 | 是在7月好像是7月3號還是4號 |
| 00:10:24,900 | 00:10:26,400 | 那時候剛發生的時候 |
| 00:10:26,400 | 00:10:28,900 | 我就在這個質詢台上面 |
| 00:10:28,900 | 00:10:30,400 | 就有問過部長嘛 |
| 00:10:30,400 | 00:10:32,900 | 那到現在也將近一個月的時間 |
| 00:10:32,900 | 00:10:34,900 | 我也相信就是說 |
| 00:10:34,900 | 00:10:36,400 | 這個衛浦部或食藥署 |
| 00:10:36,400 | 00:10:38,900 | 那相關的部會大家也很積極 |
| 00:10:38,900 | 00:10:41,900 | 就是希望能夠把這個事情趕快釐清清楚 |
| 00:10:41,900 | 00:10:43,900 | 那我也不希望就是說 |
| 00:10:43,900 | 00:10:46,400 | 這件事情一直延燒下去啦 |
| 00:10:46,400 | 00:10:49,400 | 那一般的民眾一般的 |
| 00:10:49,400 | 00:10:51,400 | 其實我在地方跑 |
| 00:10:51,400 | 00:10:53,900 | 其實他們會覺得把事情釐清 |
| 00:10:53,900 | 00:10:55,400 | 把責任釐清之後 |
| 00:10:55,400 | 00:10:58,400 | 那未來不要再有這樣的一個事情發生 |
| 00:10:58,400 | 00:11:00,400 | 其實這個事情發生的時候 |
| 00:11:00,400 | 00:11:02,400 | 你部長你知道就是說 |
| 00:11:02,400 | 00:11:04,400 | 不僅是消費者 |
| 00:11:04,400 | 00:11:06,400 | 那還有一些我們的 |
| 00:11:06,400 | 00:11:08,900 | 製造食品的這個加工業者 |
| 00:11:08,900 | 00:11:10,900 | 其實影響也都非常的大 |
| 00:11:10,900 | 00:11:12,900 | 所以我們希望就是 |
| 00:11:12,900 | 00:11:15,900 | 未來不要再有類似的狀況發生 |
| 00:11:15,900 | 00:11:18,400 | 那這件事情我們希望 |
| 00:11:18,400 | 00:11:21,400 | 從這個地方政府中央政府 |
| 00:11:21,400 | 00:11:22,900 | 大家都有責任 |
| 00:11:22,900 | 00:11:25,400 | 也不要再去追究說誰的責任大 |
| 00:11:25,400 | 00:11:26,900 | 誰的責任小 |
| 00:11:26,900 | 00:11:27,900 | 不需要 |
| 00:11:27,900 | 00:11:29,400 | 那目前就是我們 |
| 00:11:29,400 | 00:11:31,400 | 在立法院的衛環委員會 |
| 00:11:31,400 | 00:11:33,400 | 我們更重要的是應該把這個 |
| 00:11:33,400 | 00:11:35,900 | 這個食安法的這部法 |
| 00:11:35,900 | 00:11:37,400 | 修得更嚴謹一點 |
| 00:11:37,400 | 00:11:40,900 | 那未來像類似台糖的這樣的一個狀況 |
| 00:11:40,900 | 00:11:43,400 | 它是不是要賦予它通報的一個責任 |
| 00:11:43,400 | 00:11:45,400 | 那如果以這樣的話 |
| 00:11:45,400 | 00:11:46,400 | 你 |
| 00:11:46,400 | 00:11:47,900 | 它的那個油 |
| 00:11:47,900 | 00:11:49,900 | 它要跟中聯油脂買油 |
| 00:11:49,900 | 00:11:52,400 | 這個油都還沒有進到這個台糖 |
| 00:11:52,400 | 00:11:55,900 | 它只是還在中聯油脂的這個廠區 |
| 00:11:55,900 | 00:11:57,900 | 它也沒有買 |
| 00:11:57,900 | 00:11:59,400 | 然後也沒有進到台糖的 |
| 00:11:59,400 | 00:12:00,400 | 這樣的一個廠區 |
| 00:12:00,400 | 00:12:01,900 | 那類似的狀況 |
| 00:12:01,900 | 00:12:03,900 | 它有通報的義務嗎 |
| 00:12:03,900 | 00:12:05,400 | 如果今天有通報的義務 |
| 00:12:05,400 | 00:12:06,400 | 那我們未來 |
| 00:12:06,400 | 00:12:07,900 | 在這個食安法上面 |
| 00:12:07,900 | 00:12:09,400 | 是不是也要去修 |
| 00:12:09,400 | 00:12:10,400 | 那另外就是說 |
| 00:12:10,400 | 00:12:12,400 | 如果它沒有通報的義務 |
| 00:12:12,400 | 00:12:14,400 | 它去通報 |
| 00:12:14,400 | 00:12:16,400 | 那這樣算是檢舉嗎 |
| 00:12:16,400 | 00:12:18,400 | 我覺得這個未來會牽涉到 |
| 00:12:18,400 | 00:12:20,400 | 很多的樣態啦 |
| 00:12:20,400 | 00:12:23,400 | 所以我們希望這件事情 |
| 00:12:23,400 | 00:12:26,400 | 儘速釐清完之後 |
| 00:12:26,400 | 00:12:30,900 | 趕快讓這個食安法修法更嚴謹 |
| 00:12:30,900 | 00:12:31,900 | 然後讓未來我們 |
| 00:12:31,900 | 00:12:33,900 | 不論是食用油也好 |
| 00:12:33,900 | 00:12:35,900 | 或者是我們吃到的 |
| 00:12:35,900 | 00:12:37,400 | 跟這個油品相關 |
| 00:12:37,400 | 00:12:39,900 | 或所有的食品都是安全的 |
| 00:12:39,900 | 00:12:42,900 | 其實我一直在跟部長提到就是說 |
| 00:12:42,900 | 00:12:44,400 | 民眾最關心的 |
| 00:12:44,400 | 00:12:45,900 | 我現在在貨架上面 |
| 00:12:45,900 | 00:12:48,900 | 拿到的這些東西是不是安全的 |
| 00:12:48,900 | 00:12:50,900 | 所以部長你一直在強調嘛 |
| 00:12:50,900 | 00:12:53,400 | 就是說民眾消費者拿到的這些 |
| 00:12:53,400 | 00:12:55,400 | 買到的這些油品是安全的 |
| 00:12:55,400 | 00:12:56,400 | 對不對 |
| 00:12:56,400 | 00:12:57,400 | 對嘛 |
| 00:12:57,400 | 00:12:58,900 | 我們在7月10號中午 |
| 00:12:58,900 | 00:13:01,900 | 都已經完全預防性下架 |
| 00:13:01,900 | 00:13:03,900 | 所以現在架上都是經過我們 |
| 00:13:03,900 | 00:13:06,900 | 檢驗完之後允許上架的 |
| 00:13:06,900 | 00:13:09,900 | 而且現在其他還在持續 |
| 00:13:09,900 | 00:13:11,900 | 煉油的這個三個大廠 |
| 00:13:11,900 | 00:13:13,900 | 它都是足批檢驗 |
| 00:13:13,900 | 00:13:16,900 | 過去的話還是半年或一季才抽驗 |
| 00:13:16,900 | 00:13:18,900 | 現在是足批檢驗 |
| 00:13:18,900 | 00:13:21,900 | 所以現在的大豆油是非常安全的 |
| 00:13:21,900 | 00:13:22,900 | 是好 |
| 00:13:22,900 | 00:13:25,900 | 所以我要再次的請部長 |
| 00:13:25,900 | 00:13:28,900 | 還有這個我們食藥署 |
| 00:13:28,900 | 00:13:31,900 | 針對這部分趕快 |
| 00:13:31,900 | 00:13:34,900 | 趕快釐清完之後大家往前走 |
| 00:13:34,900 | 00:13:37,900 | 不要在這個議題上面再一直圍繞下去 |
| 00:13:37,900 | 00:13:39,900 | 其實我覺得這樣子一直圍繞下去 |
| 00:13:39,900 | 00:13:40,900 | 其實也都不是好事 |
| 00:13:40,900 | 00:13:43,900 | 總是把事情釐清之後 |
| 00:13:43,900 | 00:13:45,900 | 未來不要再有這樣的一個事情發生 |
| 00:13:45,900 | 00:13:47,900 | 那像中聯有指的狀況 |
| 00:13:47,900 | 00:13:49,900 | 其實我覺得應該也要去追究 |
| 00:13:49,900 | 00:13:51,900 | 它為什麼不通報 |
| 00:13:51,900 | 00:13:54,900 | 那為什麼會去做出這樣劣質的油 |
| 00:13:54,900 | 00:13:55,900 | 有毒的有 |
| 00:13:55,900 | 00:13:58,900 | 我覺得這個責任要釐清 |
| 00:13:58,900 | 00:14:00,900 | 這個我覺得也要重罰 |
| 00:14:00,900 | 00:14:02,900 | 讓業者不要心存僥倖 |
| 00:14:02,900 | 00:14:04,900 | 我覺得這個更重要 |
| 00:14:04,900 | 00:14:06,900 | 我現在一直覺得說 |
| 00:14:06,900 | 00:14:08,900 | 好像中央政府跟地方政府 |
| 00:14:08,900 | 00:14:11,900 | 大家就是互踢皮球 |
| 00:14:11,900 | 00:14:13,900 | 其實我覺得這樣也不對 |
| 00:14:13,900 | 00:14:15,900 | 但我相信部長跟署長 |
| 00:14:15,900 | 00:14:18,900 | 都是勇於承擔的人 |
| 00:14:18,900 | 00:14:20,900 | 總是事情發生了 |
| 00:14:20,900 | 00:14:24,900 | 中央政府就是要承擔這樣的一個責任 |
| 00:14:24,900 | 00:14:26,900 | 趕快把它釐清 |
| 00:14:26,900 | 00:14:29,900 | 讓民眾讓消費者在貨架上面 |
| 00:14:29,900 | 00:14:31,900 | 拿到的這些使用油 |
| 00:14:31,900 | 00:14:32,900 | 全部都是安全的 |
| 00:14:32,900 | 00:14:34,900 | 我覺得這是大家更關心的事情 |
| 00:14:34,900 | 00:14:35,900 | 跟委員說明 |
| 00:14:35,900 | 00:14:38,900 | 我們其實一直秉持的就是 |
| 00:14:38,900 | 00:14:41,900 | 食安是需要中央跟地方大家一起做好 |
| 00:14:41,900 | 00:14:45,900 | 所以我們不會去客責地方政府 |
| 00:14:45,900 | 00:14:46,900 | 就責他 |
| 00:14:46,900 | 00:14:48,900 | 也不會去踢皮球 |
| 00:14:48,900 | 00:14:50,900 | 大家就是要一起合作 |
| 00:14:50,900 | 00:14:53,900 | 才能夠把這個事情為民眾把關 |
| 00:14:53,900 | 00:14:55,900 | 把這個食安整個工作做好 |
| 00:14:55,900 | 00:14:58,900 | 所以未來我們也是用這樣的精神 |
| 00:14:58,900 | 00:14:59,900 | 來進行修法 |
| 00:14:59,900 | 00:15:00,900 | 好 |
| 00:15:00,900 | 00:15:03,900 | 那我希望就是說這個議題趕快 |
| 00:15:03,900 | 00:15:05,900 | 這個趕快處理完之後 |
| 00:15:05,900 | 00:15:08,900 | 我們再次的將這個食安法 |
| 00:15:08,900 | 00:15:10,900 | 趕快修法修得更嚴謹 |
| 00:15:10,900 | 00:15:12,900 | 我覺得這個應該是大家更關心的事情 |
| 00:15:12,900 | 00:15:13,900 | 好謝謝 |
| 00:15:13,900 | 00:15:14,900 | 好謝謝 |
| 00:15:14,900 | 00:15:15,900 | 謝謝委員 |
| 00:15:18,900 | 00:15:20,900 | 好謝謝黃秀芳委員 |
| 00:15:20,900 | 00:15:23,900 | 那我們請下一位蘇清前委員 |