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黃建賓 @ 第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 好 謝謝主席 |
| 00:00:02,000 | 00:00:04,000 | 有請國防部長 |
| 00:00:04,000 | 00:00:06,000 | 有請郭部長 |
| 00:00:12,000 | 00:00:14,000 | 是 黃委員 |
| 00:00:14,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 部長早安 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:19,000 | 部長我先請教部長 最近網路上流傳一個 |
| 00:00:19,000 | 00:00:22,000 | 憲兵快速運動射擊的影片 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:25,000 | 那影片裡面那個射手移動的時候是 |
| 00:00:25,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 一手拿彈匣 一手拿著槍 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:29,000 | 在跑步 |
| 00:00:29,000 | 00:00:33,000 | 部長這個看起來有點像是投降的動作 |
| 00:00:33,000 | 00:00:35,000 | 部長你知道這件事情嗎 |
| 00:00:35,000 | 00:00:37,000 | 我沒有看過那個這個 |
| 00:00:37,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 您說影片嗎 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:40,000 | 影片一個訓練的影片 |
| 00:00:40,000 | 00:00:41,000 | 我沒有看過 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:42,000 | 陳部長 |
| 00:00:42,000 | 00:00:43,000 | 有 |
| 00:00:43,000 | 00:00:45,000 | 這個陳部長說明一下 |
| 00:00:45,000 | 00:00:47,000 | 跟委員報告一下 |
| 00:00:47,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 這個有關這個影片我們在當初 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:54,000 | 是安全軍官為了避免在運動射擊的時候造成 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:56,000 | 官兵會受傷 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:59,000 | 或是那個這個產生一些問題 |
| 00:00:59,000 | 00:01:02,000 | 所以他要求他左手要拿著彈匣 |
| 00:01:02,000 | 00:01:06,000 | 經過那個影片出來之後我們的確也做了個檢討 |
| 00:01:06,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 然後在檢討之後 |
| 00:01:08,000 | 00:01:13,000 | 我們現在所有的在訓練之前會請安全軍官先做個示範 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:15,000 | 實施這個運動射擊 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:17,000 | 目前也不會有這個動作出現 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:22,000 | 我本來本來想問說這是你們標準動作還是忽然間加上去的 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 沒有這是 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:24,000 | 因為這個動作其實很奇怪 |
| 00:01:24,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 他不是射擊的動作是準備動作 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:29,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 他是50公尺 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 那往前面跑總共有三個點 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 那三個點這起這 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 跑的過程之中 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 他把彈匣拿出來 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 所以說會非常奇怪 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 應該是到到這個線的時候 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:43,000 | 再把彈匣拿出來 |
| 00:01:43,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 這時事設計 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:47,000 | 因為我們就算看沒有沒有真的當過兵去 |
| 00:01:47,000 | 00:01:51,000 | 先看你影片的也是到現場才會裝彈匣 |
| 00:01:51,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 然後 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 還在激發嘛 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 對不對 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 所以其實我們很好奇 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 當然看到影片好奇說 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 其實我們是當然我們要訓練讓官兵接近實戰是沒有錯 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 可是不是要貼近這個實戰的投降動作 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 所以這個部分我想部裡面這邊也有知道 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:10,000 | 以後我想就避免這樣的情況 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:12,000 | 最重要是要讓官兵知道 |
| 00:02:12,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 不然他會很納悶說那我為什麼要做這個動作 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 本體這樣講沒有錯 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 好 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 各位報告我們已經做了檢討而且修正了 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:22,000 | 謝謝謝謝 |
| 00:02:22,000 | 00:02:24,000 | 那我們回到今天的專報就是說 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 我們國防部上個月28日開了記者會 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 那宣布今年的這個漢光演習的這個時評演練要進行10天9夜 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:34,000 | 從7月27、7月29 |
| 00:02:34,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 那也安排了這個精神戰力的相關訓練 |
| 00:02:37,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 那 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 從總統國防部長到參謀總長分別錄製這個談話 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 然後加上再加上這個立即戰備 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 還有聯合演訓的安排 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:53,000 | 我想國軍現在幾乎是越來越有操練 |
| 00:02:53,000 | 00:02:56,000 | 既有演訓然後免得還有兩次的漢光演習 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 那經過這一次演算的這個演練 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 我相信大部分的官兵都能夠感受到這個敵情升高 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 灰色地帶威脅已經越來越頻繁這件事情 |
| 00:03:05,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 也越來越迫切 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 所以這幾年我們國防部也不斷的提出這個年度預算 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 還有特別預算推動人工智慧 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:13,000 | 現代化的指管系統 |
| 00:03:13,000 | 00:03:17,000 | 代表的儲存後勤的補給多元的通訊 |
| 00:03:17,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 甚至也整合了民間這些資通訊這些關鍵的基礎設施 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 我想這些外在戰力的強化當然就是代表國家有保護自己的決心 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 但更重要的是說我們國軍的精神戰力跟抗敵意志 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 也要同步的戰化 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 應該是這樣嘛 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 所以像部長相信你也感受得到啦 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 講這些應該最有感嘛對不對 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 那所以我想要請教部長說 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 我們國防部現在對於官軍官兵的這個精神戰力 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 跟心理任性的訓練有沒有一套具體可以衡量的制度 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:54,000 | 還是說還是停留在我當兵的時候是精神喊話 |
| 00:03:54,000 | 00:03:57,000 | 還是叫政戰教育這一套有沒有 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 你現在因為委員所詢問的有兩個方面 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:05,000 | 一個是他的一個抗壓性 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:08,000 | 另外一個是他的一個抗敵的意志 |
| 00:04:08,000 | 00:04:11,000 | 或者是這個敵我的認同等等 |
| 00:04:11,000 | 00:04:14,000 | 這兩個可能是不一樣的面向 |
| 00:04:14,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 那所以應該從這兩個不同的面向來努力這樣子 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 那委員所詢問的是比較偏向於是 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:27,000 | 屬於這個 |
| 00:04:27,000 | 00:04:28,000 | 因為我們現在的 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 我們今天的主題不是要強化精神戰力跟心理任性嗎 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 我們現在有沒有一套比較具體可以衡量的制度 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 因為以前本席在服役的時候 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 都是我們透過每個禮拜四的舉光日 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:45,000 | 然後大家精神喊話這樣子 |
| 00:04:45,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 那現在有沒有更具體的 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:49,000 | 對如果委員著重的 |
| 00:04:49,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 我如果理解沒有錯的話 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:55,000 | 應該是增強官兵臨戰抗壓的心理素質這一個部分 |
| 00:04:55,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 那剛剛也有這個委員其他委員來指導 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 就是說我們現在當然是有做一些訓前跟訓斥的一個 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 一個一個一個問卷調查 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 那麼這些有關相關的這些問卷的這個調查 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 包括訓後的檢討的這個部分 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 我們現在委員有指導 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 我想我們已經是有 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 但是如何能夠來更精進 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 特別是對於面對這個極大的這個戰場上的壓力的這個部分 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 那如何能夠來進一步的來做 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 這件事情我想我下去之後 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 我跟他們來進行一個討論 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 然後委員希望有一個比較有一個客觀或者科技的一個數據的檢測 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 那我想我們來檢視這個相關 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 包含美方他們的這個做法我們來檢討 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 因為我們知道精神戰力不只是一個口號 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 因為他關係到官兵到底是 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 他知道自己是為何而戰為誰而戰 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:07,000 | 那也關係到遇到了壓力的時候遇到危機的時候 |
| 00:06:07,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 我們真正真正面對到戰場環境的時候能不能夠扛得住 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 那穩住心智完成任務 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 我想這一點部長應該也是認同 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 那再來我想針對我們今天漢光演習期間要做這個城鎮認識的演訓 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:25,000 | 我們光是演練的地區的安排就引發了不少的這個爭議 |
| 00:06:25,000 | 00:06:27,000 | 那也有委員也有問過就是說 |
| 00:06:27,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 那為什麼會區域的選擇 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 那一開始國防部說是擔心投資人的股市交易 |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 然後又到了漢光的記者會又改口說 |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 南部地區先前說到八八風災 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 丹尼斯颱風天然災的影響 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 已經體驗過類似的情境所謂不納入 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 在這次城鎮認識的這個演訓裡面 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 那部長這樣一個演訓規劃的問題前後說法都不一樣 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:53,000 | 到底是怎麼一回事 |
| 00:06:53,000 | 00:06:55,000 | 我想要請教部長就是說 |
| 00:06:55,000 | 00:06:57,000 | 為什麼要做這樣的演練 |
| 00:06:57,000 | 00:06:59,000 | 那目的是為什麼 |
| 00:06:59,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 那如果說只是讓民眾體驗不能上網 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 那這樣一個重大涉及全國的演習 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 目標會不會設定的太小一點 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 那因為我們國防部一直說2027很重要 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 2027很重要韌性很重要 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 那我想要請問就是說 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 到了2027我們的國防韌性到底要達到什麼樣的程度 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 我想可能要讓委員了解 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 您剛剛講那些說國防部說什麼樣什麼樣 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 都不是國防部說的 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 因為國防部不是這一次的行動網路降速的一個權責主管機關 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 我想這個涉及跨部會的部分 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 那部長部裡面這邊大概了解到什麼程度 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 為什麼會這樣改來改去 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 那我們的部分當然就是說 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 他全社會防衛韌性結合我們的漢光演習 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 所以是在漢光演習的實施期間 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:51,000 | 依照漢光演習的一個進展 |
| 00:07:51,000 | 00:07:55,000 | 來加強我們全民的這個防衛的意識 |
| 00:07:55,000 | 00:07:59,000 | 那所以才會有這樣子的一個說明 |
| 00:07:59,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 就是說可能在面臨緊急狀況之下確實會有這個狀況發生 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 那所以讓民眾能夠理解 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 然後讓民眾能夠知道說有這樣子的一種 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 就是遇到戰爭沒有網路的過程這樣子 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 其實這個也不用遠訊 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 你把網路關掉大家都知道啦 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 所以部長本席要了解說 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 我們如果一直在本席要強調說 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 我們一直強調2027很重要 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:31,000 | 那我們國防韌性到2027我們要達到一個怎麼樣的程度 |
| 00:08:31,000 | 00:08:33,000 | 當然我們在這一次的演習裡面 |
| 00:08:33,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 民眾有體驗到真的遇到戰時的時候 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:39,000 | 他的網路速度會下降甚至完全沒有通訊 |
| 00:08:39,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 那在這一個過程裡面我們收集到的資訊 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 那包括未來我們要怎麼樣因應 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:47,000 | 如果面對這件事情我們要做怎麼樣準備 |
| 00:08:47,000 | 00:08:49,000 | 甘無這樣的心得 |
| 00:08:49,000 | 00:08:51,000 | 我們國軍單就我們國軍來講 |
| 00:08:51,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 我們國軍就會按照我們這個所謂的PACE |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 就是P-A-C-E |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:08:59,000 | 我們這個主要次要應急跟緊急這些 |
| 00:08:59,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 我們本來就是我們國軍本身就要去模擬 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:07,000 | 行動網路可能會在斷掉的情況之下 |
| 00:09:07,000 | 00:09:09,000 | 我們的替代方案是什麼 |
| 00:09:09,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 那甚至我們這個替代方案還會在斷掉的情況之下 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 我們這一個應急的是什麼 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 最後緊急的狀況是什麼 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:19,000 | 這本來就是我們所有的 |
| 00:09:19,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 不管是通訊還是直管的系統裡面 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 都要去演練的一個項目 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:27,000 | 那現在將全社會防衛任性納進來之後 |
| 00:09:27,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 是讓民眾能夠了解 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:33,000 | 事實上是有發生這種狀況的可能性 |
| 00:09:33,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 那當然一開始的時候 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 這個實施的這個強度跟實施的地區 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 也許一開始我想有一些考量 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:45,000 | 那我想我的理解是 |
| 00:09:45,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 最後應該是會全面擴及到全國的地區這樣子 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 所以我覺得演習最終目的是 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 透過演習的過程 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 演習的過程裡面去模擬情況 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:58,000 | 我們會設定一個解決的方案 |
| 00:09:58,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 這我們才有演訓嘛對不對 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 對所以像這一次 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:04,000 | 那大家就會知道說 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 那在醫療、在金融、在這個交通 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 還有救災也有嘛對不對 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 這些部分 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 治安、救災等等 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 都有可能面臨這些狀況 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:19,000 | 那各部會 |
| 00:10:19,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 所以這是跨部會 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:21,000 | 我在說明 |
| 00:10:21,000 | 00:10:23,000 | 為什麼這由行政院來主管 |
| 00:10:23,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 因為這是整個跨部會 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 在面臨這個狀況之下 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:28,000 | 他們要做的一個準備計畫 |
| 00:10:28,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 那我想我們國軍的部分是一直在演訓當中 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 我相信部裡面應該也有得到一些心得 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:36,000 | 包括說真的發生了 |
| 00:10:36,000 | 00:10:38,000 | 說我們要怎麼來整個各部會 |
| 00:10:38,000 | 00:10:39,000 | 應該是這樣嘛 |
| 00:10:39,000 | 00:10:41,000 | 對我們現在還有進一步課題 |
| 00:10:41,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 就是軍民整合協調的這個部分 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:45,000 | 你會涉及到說 |
| 00:10:45,000 | 00:10:47,000 | 以後在緊急狀況之下 |
| 00:10:47,000 | 00:10:49,000 | 我們需要靠民間部會 |
| 00:10:49,000 | 00:10:51,000 | 跟民間部會來進行協調 |
| 00:10:51,000 | 00:10:54,000 | 支援的這個運用等等這些 |
| 00:10:54,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 那軍民的網路斷掉 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 就是說網路斷掉之下 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:01,000 | 軍民的這個整合協調 |
| 00:11:01,000 | 00:11:02,000 | 本身就是一個課題 |
| 00:11:02,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 那這個確實是 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 現在全社會防衛人性結合漢光的 |
| 00:11:07,000 | 00:11:09,000 | 一個重要的背景意義 |
| 00:11:09,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 相信這一次的演習應該也給我們 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:13,000 | 國防部這邊 |
| 00:11:13,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 他又不會得到很多的訊息 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:17,000 | 在未來遇到這樣的情況要怎麼做 |
| 00:11:17,000 | 00:11:18,000 | 那我們講到說 |
| 00:11:18,000 | 00:11:20,000 | 部隊還是回到作戰嘛 |
| 00:11:20,000 | 00:11:22,000 | 那部隊能不能夠持續作戰 |
| 00:11:22,000 | 00:11:24,000 | 其實最終的目的還是要回到人嘛 |
| 00:11:24,000 | 00:11:27,000 | 我們還要談到人這塊人力這一塊 |
| 00:11:27,000 | 00:11:29,000 | 可是我們目前的主戰的部隊 |
| 00:11:29,000 | 00:11:31,000 | 邊線比大概的七到八成 |
| 00:11:31,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 那其中部隊甚至更低 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:35,000 | 那我想我們國軍 |
| 00:11:35,000 | 00:11:36,000 | 雖然努力在做招募 |
| 00:11:36,000 | 00:11:37,000 | 也在做招募 |
| 00:11:37,000 | 00:11:39,000 | 也在做調整軍政待遇 |
| 00:11:39,000 | 00:11:41,000 | 但是機制人力其實相當吃緊 |
| 00:11:41,000 | 00:11:44,000 | 那這樣你連續平反的演訓 |
| 00:11:44,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 還要推動數位化的轉型 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 西式裝備的換裝 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:50,000 | 我想官兵的壓力一定會更重 |
| 00:11:50,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 所以我們講更白一點說 |
| 00:11:52,000 | 00:11:54,000 | 現在壓力已經很重了 |
| 00:11:54,000 | 00:11:56,000 | 搞不好還沒到打仗 |
| 00:11:56,000 | 00:12:00,000 | 部隊就先被我們內號這邊拖垮了 |
| 00:12:00,000 | 00:12:02,000 | 那本席其實前幾天質詢的時候 |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:03,000 | 也一直關心我們 |
| 00:12:03,000 | 00:12:06,000 | 官兵弟兄的工作負荷量的改善的情況 |
| 00:12:06,000 | 00:12:09,000 | 還有我們的中高階的幹部離退的問題 |
| 00:12:09,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 那部長還有相關的主管當時都說會評估 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:13,000 | 那會改善 |
| 00:12:13,000 | 00:12:16,000 | 那到現在其實我們還是沒有看到具體的資料跟說明 |
| 00:12:16,000 | 00:12:19,000 | 那部長你能夠清楚的說明一下 |
| 00:12:19,000 | 00:12:21,000 | 我們國防部未來打算怎麼樣 |
| 00:12:21,000 | 00:12:23,000 | 減輕我們基層行政的負擔 |
| 00:12:23,000 | 00:12:27,000 | 那有沒有真正檢討不必要的文書作業 |
| 00:12:27,000 | 00:12:30,000 | 會議以及重複的這些情務 |
| 00:12:30,000 | 00:12:34,000 | 因為剛剛牛委員在質詢的時候 |
| 00:12:34,000 | 00:12:38,000 | 我們黃司長已經有做了一些說明 |
| 00:12:38,000 | 00:12:40,000 | 是不是再請他做一下 |
| 00:12:40,000 | 00:12:42,000 | 市長 馬牛總理改的 |
| 00:12:42,000 | 00:12:44,000 | 包委員我們這個有區分幾個部分 |
| 00:12:44,000 | 00:12:50,000 | 第一個部分是業務需要性的這個部分 |
| 00:12:50,000 | 00:12:52,000 | 事實上我們過去三年當中 |
| 00:12:52,000 | 00:12:55,000 | 已經做了相當幅度的調整 已經降低了 |
| 00:12:55,000 | 00:12:57,000 | 第二個部分是人的部分 |
| 00:12:57,000 | 00:12:59,000 | 人的部分是一個關鍵 |
| 00:12:59,000 | 00:13:03,000 | 我們目前規劃在整個兵力結構調整裡面 |
| 00:13:03,000 | 00:13:07,000 | 過去可能一個人會兼任兩個業務的這個狀況 |
| 00:13:07,000 | 00:13:10,000 | 我們會全部把它做一個解決 |
| 00:13:10,000 | 00:13:13,000 | 也就是這個單位如果它應該需要兩個幕僚的 |
| 00:13:13,000 | 00:13:15,000 | 這個位置需要兩個幕僚 |
| 00:13:15,000 | 00:13:16,000 | 我們就要編兩個幕僚 |
| 00:13:16,000 | 00:13:17,000 | 這個已經做過調整 |
| 00:13:17,000 | 00:13:19,000 | 最後一個是我們系統的部分 |
| 00:13:19,000 | 00:13:24,000 | 我們預劃從明年開始 |
| 00:13:24,000 | 00:13:29,000 | 我們整個以人事跟後勤這些行政類的 |
| 00:13:29,000 | 00:13:30,000 | 業務的部分 |
| 00:13:30,000 | 00:13:33,000 | 我們會採取上雲跟整個系統作業 |
| 00:13:33,000 | 00:13:37,000 | 來降低人員在查詢搜索的時候 |
| 00:13:37,000 | 00:13:40,000 | 他所需要的時間來降低他的工作負荷 |
| 00:13:40,000 | 00:13:42,000 | 那有關於整個規劃的部分 |
| 00:13:42,000 | 00:13:44,000 | 如果委員希望進一步了解的話 |
| 00:13:44,000 | 00:13:46,000 | 我們可以到委員辦公室 |
| 00:13:46,000 | 00:13:49,000 | 針對我們未來人事行政這些系統的進進措施 |
| 00:13:49,000 | 00:13:50,000 | 來跟委員做說明 |
| 00:13:50,000 | 00:13:51,000 | 謝謝市長的說明 |
| 00:13:51,000 | 00:13:54,000 | 市長其實本席會這樣問的是 |
| 00:13:54,000 | 00:13:56,000 | 我們其實在人力上 |
| 00:13:56,000 | 00:13:58,000 | 你現在未來的少子化人力一定會短缺 |
| 00:13:58,000 | 00:14:00,000 | 情況下你勤務上不做調整 |
| 00:14:00,000 | 00:14:02,000 | 加上本席提到的 |
| 00:14:02,000 | 00:14:04,000 | 不管是你的新式裝備的 |
| 00:14:04,000 | 00:14:06,000 | 要換裝人員的訓練 |
| 00:14:06,000 | 00:14:08,000 | 它都會造成工作的負擔 |
| 00:14:08,000 | 00:14:10,000 | 我希望本席希望就是說 |
| 00:14:10,000 | 00:14:13,000 | 我們希望不要再真的還沒有上戰場 |
| 00:14:13,000 | 00:14:15,000 | 說我們光是這些內耗的行政程序 |
| 00:14:15,000 | 00:14:17,000 | 就把人員都耗盡了 |
| 00:14:17,000 | 00:14:19,000 | 那講新式的裝備 |
| 00:14:19,000 | 00:14:21,000 | 跟數位化陸續進場 |
| 00:14:21,000 | 00:14:23,000 | 你不只要學新的系統 |
| 00:14:23,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 你要兼顧原本的戰備跟演訓 |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:28,000 | 那你再加上這個組織結構 |
| 00:14:28,000 | 00:14:29,000 | 也要平衡的調整 |
| 00:14:29,000 | 00:14:32,000 | 那我想精神力戰力應該不是只有要求官兵說 |
| 00:14:32,000 | 00:14:33,000 | 你們要忍耐 |
| 00:14:33,000 | 00:14:36,000 | 也不能只靠著說要犧牲奉獻 |
| 00:14:36,000 | 00:14:38,000 | 就可以解決這些問題 |
| 00:14:38,000 | 00:14:40,000 | 我想國軍還是回到最務實的是從 |
| 00:14:40,000 | 00:14:42,000 | 待遇、休假、家庭支持 |
| 00:14:42,000 | 00:14:44,000 | 還有領導、管理方向 |
| 00:14:44,000 | 00:14:46,000 | 來真正提出改善的方法 |
| 00:14:46,000 | 00:14:48,000 | 我想本席最近 |
| 00:14:48,000 | 00:14:50,000 | 接到一個反應說 |
| 00:14:50,000 | 00:14:52,000 | 有些單位只是換個名字 |
| 00:14:52,000 | 00:14:55,000 | 官兵那個陰定的加級就沒有辦法如期的發放 |
| 00:14:55,000 | 00:14:57,000 | 甚至要等到一兩個月甚至更久 |
| 00:14:57,000 | 00:14:59,000 | 我想請教部長說 |
| 00:14:59,000 | 00:15:00,000 | 真的有沒有這樣的情形 |
| 00:15:00,000 | 00:15:02,000 | 官兵是為了什麼 |
| 00:15:02,000 | 00:15:04,000 | 您講的可能是我們之前 |
| 00:15:04,000 | 00:15:06,000 | 我們將 |
| 00:15:06,000 | 00:15:09,000 | 我們一直在做組織編裝的一個調整 |
| 00:15:09,000 | 00:15:12,000 | 那在組織編裝調整過程當中 |
| 00:15:12,000 | 00:15:15,000 | 譬如說最明顯就是無人機大隊 |
| 00:15:15,000 | 00:15:17,000 | 那這個無人機的大隊 |
| 00:15:17,000 | 00:15:19,000 | 它是用原來的 |
| 00:15:19,000 | 00:15:21,000 | 譬如說海軍陣隊的火力營 |
| 00:15:21,000 | 00:15:23,000 | 或者是這個 |
| 00:15:23,000 | 00:15:25,000 | 那目標點 |
| 00:15:25,000 | 00:15:26,000 | 然後轉過來 |
| 00:15:26,000 | 00:15:28,000 | 那同樣原來是 |
| 00:15:28,000 | 00:15:30,000 | 屬於戰鬥部隊嘛 |
| 00:15:30,000 | 00:15:32,000 | 領這個第一級的戰鬥部隊加級 |
| 00:15:32,000 | 00:15:33,000 | 那所以 |
| 00:15:33,000 | 00:15:35,000 | 那因為任總在後面的審核 |
| 00:15:35,000 | 00:15:37,000 | 我們要跟他溝通 |
| 00:15:37,000 | 00:15:39,000 | 那所以我們現在已經跟任總協調了 |
| 00:15:39,000 | 00:15:41,000 | 我們以後做組織編裝的調整 |
| 00:15:41,000 | 00:15:43,000 | 我們都事先會告知 |
| 00:15:43,000 | 00:15:45,000 | 那我們會進行協調 |
| 00:15:45,000 | 00:15:47,000 | 那如果是屬於戰鬥部隊定義的 |
| 00:15:47,000 | 00:15:49,000 | 那我們都會 |
| 00:15:49,000 | 00:15:51,000 | 希望能夠不延誤 |
| 00:15:51,000 | 00:15:53,000 | 因為部長本席其實很疑惑就是 |
| 00:15:53,000 | 00:15:55,000 | 其實是一樣的這一群人 |
| 00:15:55,000 | 00:15:57,000 | 然後因為任務改變可是人還是在嘛 |
| 00:15:57,000 | 00:15:59,000 | 譬如說像以前那個 |
| 00:15:59,000 | 00:16:01,000 | 本席了解像那個最早叫膜部旅嘛 |
| 00:16:01,000 | 00:16:03,000 | 那有可能叫機部旅嘛 |
| 00:16:03,000 | 00:16:05,000 | 然後現在叫聯兵旅嘛 |
| 00:16:05,000 | 00:16:07,000 | 一樣的人在做一樣的事情 |
| 00:16:07,000 | 00:16:09,000 | 可是因為名聲改變之後 |
| 00:16:09,000 | 00:16:11,000 | 部長剛才提到是他的戰鬥加級可能 |
| 00:16:11,000 | 00:16:13,000 | 因為這樣子慢了一個月或兩個月或三個月 |
| 00:16:13,000 | 00:16:15,000 | 所以我們資源醫師兵 |
| 00:16:15,000 | 00:16:17,000 | 他每個月生家裡面的開銷 |
| 00:16:17,000 | 00:16:19,000 | 他都有安生好的 |
| 00:16:19,000 | 00:16:23,000 | 所以影響到我們在那裡的待遇 |
| 00:16:23,000 | 00:16:25,000 | 影響他的生活 |
| 00:16:25,000 | 00:16:27,000 | 所以這一塊我想我們是不是 |
| 00:16:27,000 | 00:16:29,000 | 也看到這感覺就是我們組織是不是 |
| 00:16:29,000 | 00:16:31,000 | 本席又回來之後是不是我們組織 |
| 00:16:31,000 | 00:16:33,000 | 擴張的太快 |
| 00:16:33,000 | 00:16:35,000 | 快到讓行政單位跟不上 |
| 00:16:35,000 | 00:16:37,000 | 我想這樣講有點誇張 |
| 00:16:37,000 | 00:16:39,000 | 其實是我們要 |
| 00:16:39,000 | 00:16:41,000 | 我們要凸顯是不是人力少到 |
| 00:16:41,000 | 00:16:43,000 | 連作業基本都受影響 |
| 00:16:43,000 | 00:16:45,000 | 這跟人力的減少無關 |
| 00:16:45,000 | 00:16:47,000 | 這是跟我們的 |
| 00:16:47,000 | 00:16:51,000 | 要依據我們的這個作戰的需求 |
| 00:16:51,000 | 00:16:53,000 | 我們調整我們的邊裝 |
| 00:16:53,000 | 00:16:55,000 | 那我們需要我們現在已經跟人總已經協調了 |
| 00:16:55,000 | 00:17:01,000 | 我們事先就會再進行邊裝調整的過程當中會先告知 |
| 00:17:01,000 | 00:17:03,000 | 對阿部長包括就整個我們新師結構的問題 |
| 00:17:03,000 | 00:17:05,000 | 其實一直都存在嘛 |
| 00:17:05,000 | 00:17:07,000 | 對不對因為你看 |
| 00:17:07,000 | 00:17:09,000 | 有本鳳有加級有加一下這麼多東西 |
| 00:17:09,000 | 00:17:11,000 | 那因為我們組織在調整的時候 |
| 00:17:11,000 | 00:17:13,000 | 在作業上影響的話 |
| 00:17:13,000 | 00:17:15,000 | 而影響到官兵的權力的話 |
| 00:17:15,000 | 00:17:17,000 | 我想倒不如就 |
| 00:17:17,000 | 00:17:19,000 | 按照去年通過的那個軍人加薪法 |
| 00:17:19,000 | 00:17:21,000 | 直接把一萬五全部拿到新師去發放 |
| 00:17:21,000 | 00:17:23,000 | 反而更直接 |
| 00:17:23,000 | 00:17:25,000 | 也讓全體官兵都受惠 |
| 00:17:25,000 | 00:17:27,000 | 不過現在你遇到連個加級都還會中斷 |
| 00:17:27,000 | 00:17:29,000 | 我跟你講 |
| 00:17:29,000 | 00:17:31,000 | 我跟你講那個國防任性不只是武器的任性 |
| 00:17:31,000 | 00:17:33,000 | 也不是系統任性 |
| 00:17:33,000 | 00:17:35,000 | 最重要的是什麼 |
| 00:17:35,000 | 00:17:37,000 | 就是人的任性 |
| 00:17:37,000 | 00:17:39,000 | 官兵他撐得住 |
| 00:17:39,000 | 00:17:41,000 | 留得住願意戰 |
| 00:17:41,000 | 00:17:43,000 | 而且能夠持續的戰 |
| 00:17:43,000 | 00:17:45,000 | 我們國家的戰力 |
| 00:17:45,000 | 00:17:47,000 | 才能夠真正的武務部長對不對 |
| 00:17:47,000 | 00:17:51,000 | 我們會持續的檢討各項加級的情形 |
| 00:17:51,000 | 00:17:53,000 | 好啦謝謝部長 |
| 00:17:53,000 | 00:17:55,000 | 我們也期許說部長再領帶一下 |
| 00:17:55,000 | 00:17:59,000 | 我們整個國防部不只是在特別預算買武器 |
| 00:17:59,000 | 00:18:01,000 | 我想官兵的權力跟身心健康 |
| 00:18:01,000 | 00:18:03,000 | 才是真的部長 |
| 00:18:03,000 | 00:18:05,000 | 還有各位長官你們真的要照顧的範圍才是啦 |
| 00:18:07,000 | 00:18:09,000 | 那也讓謝謝部長謝謝市長 |
| 00:18:09,000 | 00:18:11,000 | 謝謝主席 |
| 00:18:11,000 | 00:18:13,000 | 謝謝 |