iVOD / 170814
本逐字稿內容由 AI 自動生成，可能包含錯誤、遺漏或誤譯之處。請使用者務必與原始影片音訊內容交叉比對，以確保資訊正確性。另可參考立法院日後釋出的正式公報以取得最終權威版本。
王定宇 @ 第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 好謝謝主席麻煩部長 |
| 00:00:02,000 | 00:00:04,000 | 請郭部長 |
| 00:00:09,000 | 00:00:10,000 | 是 王緯豪 |
| 00:00:10,000 | 00:00:13,000 | 部長辛苦 我們是希望盡快完成專報 |
| 00:00:13,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 讓各位今天 今天是漢光開始 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:18,000 | 各位理論上不應該在委員會啦 |
| 00:00:18,000 | 00:00:21,000 | 你們應該在山洞裡 在各個的場域 |
| 00:00:21,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 那既然專報 我們還是要問一些重要的題目 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:28,000 | 無人機跟公雨房 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 我看這次有納入漢光42號的科目嗎 |
| 00:00:31,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 無人機的部分 有 是 |
| 00:00:34,000 | 00:00:36,000 | 有納入啦 我請教 |
| 00:00:36,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 我至少從書面資料看到的是 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:42,000 | 我們無人機現在軟煞的部分是由 |
| 00:00:42,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 這一個通知處負責 |
| 00:00:44,000 | 00:00:48,000 | 硬煞的話是戰訓處來負責 對不對 |
| 00:00:48,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 還是說統合在一個單位 |
| 00:00:50,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 我們是由軍種來統一 |
| 00:00:53,000 | 00:00:55,000 | 統合 但是在陸軍裡面的分工 |
| 00:00:55,000 | 00:00:58,000 | 軟硬煞是分別兩個處來統籌 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:02,000 | 整個作戰應用還是由戰訓部門 |
| 00:01:02,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 但是是基於軟硬煞的專業 |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:07,000 | 在建案方面有區分 |
| 00:01:07,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 但是在整個的作業上面還是都會合署 |
| 00:01:10,000 | 00:01:11,000 | 來共同完成 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 我們都希望國軍的戰力更好 更強 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 所以我提的意見不見得對 |
| 00:01:16,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 但是我希望現在戰場上的狀況變化太快 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 你光看烏克蘭 光看伊朗那邊就知道 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 有時候最強的武器 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 過了幾個季以後變成沒有用了 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:31,000 | 所以目前我看起來我們國軍是 |
| 00:01:31,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 通知處負責軟煞 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 因為他有他的專業嘛 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:36,000 | 那戰訓處負責硬煞 |
| 00:01:36,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 可是事實上這個東西是要整合在一起的 |
| 00:01:40,000 | 00:01:43,000 | 感知系統不可能分兩套 |
| 00:01:43,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 我看得見 我查知之後 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 進入C2 command control |
| 00:01:48,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 我該用什麼方法來截殺他 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 平時可能不能隨便開槍開砲 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:53,000 | 我用軟煞 |
| 00:01:53,000 | 00:01:55,000 | 而軟煞未必有用 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 那介於軟硬煞之間最接近硬煞的方式是 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 雷射 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 然後接下來是硬煞 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 不管用步槍 用三菱砲等等 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:06,000 | 所以它是一個整合的系統 |
| 00:02:06,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 所以我們看到我之前碰到弗林 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 弗林做過美國的陸軍的司令 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 太平洋的陸軍司令 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:17,000 | 弗林有點出一個問題說 |
| 00:02:17,000 | 00:02:21,000 | 面對反制無人機 |
| 00:02:21,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 他看到台灣有點個自為政 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 他會有點擔心 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 那我們把這個問題再拉大一點看 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 我們現在不只在陸軍軟硬煞分兩個處 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 事實上我們現在非軍方的所謂防衛韌性 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 台電 中油 高鐵 警政署 海巡 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 他們也在買 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:44,000 | 他們也在採購無人機的反制系統 |
| 00:02:44,000 | 00:02:46,000 | 那大家都有 |
| 00:02:46,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 互相干擾 |
| 00:02:48,000 | 00:02:49,000 | 這是一個問題 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 再來有沒有納入統合的指管 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 我一個無人機進來 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:57,000 | 誰看見了 用誰的系統來阻殺 |
| 00:02:57,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 照理說是要整合 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 所以在美國有一個經驗是 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:04,000 | 美軍就成立了一個JITF |
| 00:03:04,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 那JITF是在美國的國防部2019年 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:12,000 | 先成立了一個聯合辦公室 |
| 00:03:12,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 後來長設設立一個聯合跨部會專案小組 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 以一個準將來當統籌的指揮官 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:24,000 | 來跨軍種 跨部會統合所有無人機的防禦 |
| 00:03:24,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 跟所有無人機相關的作業 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 我不知道就這個點 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 那因為顧部長過去在國安會 |
| 00:03:31,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 現在在國防部 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 那你大概整個層面都看過了 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 國安會現在負責防衛韌性 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:38,000 | 事實上很早就開始了 |
| 00:03:38,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 對於整合的部分 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 部長有什麼想法 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 報告委員這個跟委員做個報告 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 因為我們無人機跟反制無人機系統 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 這個部分事實上我們起步是比較晚的 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:52,000 | 那所以在初期的時候 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 我們基本上是一個邊試邊走的一個狀態 |
| 00:03:56,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 那從兩年前開始 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 也就是我們在推動上一版的 |
| 00:04:00,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 就是我們1.25兆特別預算的時候 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 在那個之前我們針對這個系統的部分 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 無人機跟反無人機系統的部分 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:11,000 | 我們做了三個切割 |
| 00:04:11,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 第一個就指管的部分 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:16,000 | 我們在這個部分開始導入人工智慧 |
| 00:04:16,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 那除了針對單一的就是那種小型的單兵的 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:22,000 | 你已經納入指管了沒有 |
| 00:04:22,000 | 00:04:24,000 | 已經納入指管了沒 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:26,000 | 已經納入指管了沒 |
| 00:04:26,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 那已經納入了才有所謂的AI加進去 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 所以我們現在反制無人機 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:35,000 | 跟指揮無人機反制無人機已經納入指管了嗎 |
| 00:04:35,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 你們設備有了嗎 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 包委員那個是我們現在先要把那個系統建立起來 |
| 00:04:41,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 那因為目前是沒有 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:44,000 | 對所以我那一集 |
| 00:04:44,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 你現在還沒有那個系統 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:48,000 | AI不要被AI迷惑住 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:50,000 | AI當然很好很先進科技 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:54,000 | AI是先進科技加在我們指管系統這邊 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 那你現在指管系統還沒有 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 我今天只是提一個概念 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 就是說我希望部長去思考看看 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 因為連美軍都在摸索 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:04,000 | 我沒有說美軍一定對喔 |
| 00:05:04,000 | 00:05:06,000 | 美軍也在摸索 |
| 00:05:06,000 | 00:05:08,000 | 比方說我在擊殺的時候 |
| 00:05:08,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 怎麼樣用合理的武器去擊殺 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:13,000 | 避免用一個三四百萬美金的去打一個五萬美金的 |
| 00:05:13,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 那他們提出一個概念就是 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 整合一個單位這整合有三個目的 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:20,000 | 第一個把防衛的體系 |
| 00:05:20,000 | 00:05:22,000 | 反制無人機的體系 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:24,000 | 從感知系統雷達等等 |
| 00:05:24,000 | 00:05:28,000 | 到指管到動用什麼裝備去軟硬殺 |
| 00:05:28,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 要把它整合在一起 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 而且不是只整合軍方的 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 國土安全部什麼他都整合在一起 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 第二個意義在哪裡呢 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:38,000 | 迭代更新的時候 |
| 00:05:38,000 | 00:05:40,000 | 透過這樣子的整合 |
| 00:05:40,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 可以用最快的速度 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 把最新的東西交到第一線的 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:46,000 | 守軍的身上 |
| 00:05:46,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 因為有時候你現在 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 採用東西要趕快迭代更新 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:54,000 | 所以按照原來分層負責分軍種 |
| 00:05:54,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 有時候要更新的速度會太慢 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 這是第二個目的 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 第三個目的也透過整合的方式 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:02,000 | 建構軍民通可以鼓勵大家 |
| 00:06:02,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 建立更強的反制 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 或更強的毛語盾 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 目前我們國軍 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 說這幾年 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 切割三段 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 我們看到這幾年其實 |
| 00:06:14,000 | 00:06:16,000 | 有時候建制半天 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 有的現在標案結束 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 根本就不能用就把它廢標了 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 那我們採購 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 我們不管軟硬殺又分兩個處 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 然後我們現在指管系統 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 也還沒建立 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 我們跟非軍方的防衛體系 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 也沒有做整合 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 這令人家擔心我們在最前緣 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:36,000 | 我們不是在後端可以慢慢來 |
| 00:06:36,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 所以請教部長或 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 司長 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 我們大概多久可以看到 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:44,000 | 我們把防禦無人機的 |
| 00:06:44,000 | 00:06:46,000 | 體系的系統 |
| 00:06:46,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 可以整合有指管 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 然後開始可以作業 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 然後我第二個問題是如果你們現在手上都沒這個裝備 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 你把這個科目 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 納入漢光四十二號 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 面對群攻或者面對無人機來協奏 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:07:00,000 | 你們是用什麼東西去 |
| 00:07:00,000 | 00:07:02,000 | 是用現有的雷達去看 |
| 00:07:02,000 | 00:07:04,000 | 現有的裝備去打嗎 |
| 00:07:04,000 | 00:07:06,000 | 報告委員我們目前當然是用我們 |
| 00:07:06,000 | 00:07:08,000 | 現有的操作系統去 |
| 00:07:08,000 | 00:07:10,000 | 掌握無人機 |
| 00:07:10,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 但是您剛剛問到說我們具體的 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 這些防禦無人機系統 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 比較大的規劃的部分什麼時候實現 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:18,000 | 應該 |
| 00:07:18,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 如果我們幾個案子走得順利的話 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 應該明年委員就可以看到我們 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:24,000 | 幾個系統陸陸續續的會 |
| 00:07:24,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 浮上台所以會納入指管 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 那現在最重要的其實是平埔分割的問題 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:30,000 | 平埔分割的這一段 |
| 00:07:30,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 事實上由連六這邊 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 掌握各單位跟自動電軍 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 去做先行規劃 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:38,000 | 因為這個部分未來大量無人機 |
| 00:07:38,000 | 00:07:40,000 | 如果進來的話平埔管理 |
| 00:07:40,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 這個部分沒有做好無人機 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 進來就會遭遇到很大的困難 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 所以這個部分連六這邊 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:48,000 | 他有做一個詳細的規劃 |
| 00:07:48,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 那如果委員有興趣的話 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:52,000 | 這個好像也不是只有我們國防部可以做決定 |
| 00:07:52,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 那當然不是這是統合 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:56,000 | 三軍以及直屬單位 |
| 00:07:56,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 有關單位 還有非軍方的喔 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 都要嘛 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 國防部本身要先 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 律定我們的部分的 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:06,000 | 要跟蘇發部要跟NCC |
| 00:08:06,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 那另外民用的部分我們會再跟 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 所以 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:12,000 | 部長我問一個大的政策方向 |
| 00:08:12,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 相關部會來進行協調 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 民用的或是非軍的防衛任性的 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 跟我們軍方的將來會納入 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 同一個指管系統還是分治 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 我們現行還沒有將民用 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 民用的納入我們的相關的指管系統 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:26,000 | 那我們的現行的相關指管系統 |
| 00:08:26,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 正在進行當中 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:30,000 | 那如果沒有納入 |
| 00:08:30,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 包括剛剛 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 卓醫師有提到的這些火學中心等等 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 火學中心是一個事情 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 我說沒有納入的話 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 他們非軍方的 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 也在買那個軟硬 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 他們也在買仿製無人機的東西 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 軟砂等等 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 那如果沒有納入同一套指管 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 軍方的東西進來 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 最後總要一個統合 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:54,000 | 把自己的人拉下來怎麼辦 |
| 00:08:54,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 最重要的納入指管 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 再來有關頻譜的部分 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:09:00,000 | NCC現在的運作跟你們會不會是慢在那一段 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 這跟委員報告一下 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 第一個就是我們先針對 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:06,000 | 非軍方的CI各關鍵基礎設施的 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 是由我們在負責整合 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 那在明年底前會完成整合 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 那他的大C2會是在 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:14,000 | 消防署 |
| 00:09:14,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 因為直管體系的問題 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:18,000 | 所以整合防禦系統嘛 |
| 00:09:18,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 一個C2的中心嘛 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 對一個大C2裡面 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 整合完之後後面看什麼時候 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 軍方同意去借接 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 這個中間的界面我們是保持在那邊 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 但是什麼時候需要借接 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 要看整個戰備等級的狀況 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:34,000 | 最後目標還是要借接 |
| 00:09:34,000 | 00:09:36,000 | 另外軍方現在本身的部分 |
| 00:09:36,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 我們已經把 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 中科院產製的所有Counter UIS的 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 系統能夠把 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 訊息直接傳到TAC |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 所以所有無人機來襲的 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:48,000 | 訊息是可以透過TAC來 |
| 00:09:48,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 看到的 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 我們現在關於42號 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 有無人機的攻防的演練的科目 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 所以你們現在目獲的是用 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:58,000 | 中科院既有裝備 |
| 00:09:58,000 | 00:10:00,000 | 去查知傳到TAC系統裡面 |
| 00:10:00,000 | 00:10:02,000 | 是 |
| 00:10:02,000 | 00:10:04,000 | TAC當然他的 |
| 00:10:04,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 勤監系統當然不是 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 只有無人機但如何運用 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 無人機先行 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 先行目獲之後 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:14,000 | 然後再做識別之後 |
| 00:10:14,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 然後再做這個會是在演練的範圍裡面 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 那我們現有的裝備 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 能力充足嗎 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 你要講充足這件事情 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 就不能夠說我們現在充足 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 但是我們還是要進行演練 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:28,000 | 那我們當然要利用既有的 |
| 00:10:28,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 這些裝備 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 我們既有的已經有一些 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 那你們這次 |
| 00:10:34,000 | 00:10:36,000 | 42號有群攻 |
| 00:10:36,000 | 00:10:38,000 | 封群的攻擊嗎 |
| 00:10:38,000 | 00:10:40,000 | 封 |
| 00:10:40,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 就是看 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:44,000 | 我們就統裁部他有設計的狀況 |
| 00:10:44,000 | 00:10:46,000 | 那有狀況我們平常演練的時候 |
| 00:10:46,000 | 00:10:48,000 | 也有把這個納入到 |
| 00:10:48,000 | 00:10:50,000 | 國軍現在有能力應付封群攻擊嗎 |
| 00:10:50,000 | 00:10:52,000 | 就跟 |
| 00:10:52,000 | 00:10:54,000 | 如同部長剛剛所說我們就利用現有的裝備 |
| 00:10:54,000 | 00:10:56,000 | 做好我們現在的 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:58,000 | 你沒有回答問題我說以國軍現在有能力 |
| 00:10:58,000 | 00:11:00,000 | 應付封群攻擊嗎 |
| 00:11:00,000 | 00:11:02,000 | 我 |
| 00:11:02,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 這不足的話 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:06,000 | 其實我們在這邊很多國防運算 |
| 00:11:06,000 | 00:11:08,000 | 一直延宕其實就導致 |
| 00:11:08,000 | 00:11:10,000 | 不足我沒有要怪你們 |
| 00:11:10,000 | 00:11:12,000 | 因為這次很多都是新的東西 |
| 00:11:12,000 | 00:11:14,000 | 昨天沒有發生的明天就發生的 |
| 00:11:14,000 | 00:11:16,000 | 我現在說以這次漢光42號 |
| 00:11:16,000 | 00:11:18,000 | 有這個科目我覺得是正確的 |
| 00:11:18,000 | 00:11:20,000 | 我是給正面肯定因為 |
| 00:11:20,000 | 00:11:22,000 | 你要根據敵方的情形來做 |
| 00:11:22,000 | 00:11:24,000 | 研判對方有這個能力把納入 |
| 00:11:24,000 | 00:11:26,000 | 威脅是對的或我們有能力 |
| 00:11:26,000 | 00:11:28,000 | 處理封群攻擊嗎 |
| 00:11:28,000 | 00:11:30,000 | 我想如果共軍真的 |
| 00:11:30,000 | 00:11:32,000 | 下一個我不曉得是 |
| 00:11:32,000 | 00:11:34,000 | 多飽和的一個攻擊 |
| 00:11:34,000 | 00:11:36,000 | 模式那我們黃衛軍 |
| 00:11:36,000 | 00:11:38,000 | 現在當然就是利用我們 |
| 00:11:38,000 | 00:11:40,000 | 按照漢光演習我們用現有的裝備 |
| 00:11:40,000 | 00:11:42,000 | 來進行對那如果沒有辦法 |
| 00:11:42,000 | 00:11:44,000 | 進行對我們會根據我們 |
| 00:11:44,000 | 00:11:46,000 | 驗證所得到的這些相關的 |
| 00:11:46,000 | 00:11:48,000 | 這些資料跟參數我們 |
| 00:11:48,000 | 00:11:50,000 | 來進行後續的這個規劃 |
| 00:11:50,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 就這一塊我最後建議 |
| 00:11:52,000 | 00:11:54,000 | 國防部你們驗證完 |
| 00:11:54,000 | 00:11:56,000 | 可能會有不足或者 |
| 00:11:56,000 | 00:11:58,000 | 需要補強的地方那以往這 |
| 00:11:58,000 | 00:12:00,000 | 是軍方資料作為明年漢光在操演 |
| 00:12:00,000 | 00:12:02,000 | 在二月份響電的時候再出來 |
| 00:12:02,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 我建議這一塊 |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:06,000 | 該機密就機密適度的 |
| 00:12:06,000 | 00:12:08,000 | 國會參與了解 |
| 00:12:08,000 | 00:12:10,000 | 我到現在還堅信 |
| 00:12:10,000 | 00:12:12,000 | 在我們的立法院 |
| 00:12:12,000 | 00:12:14,000 | 國防安全沒有黨派 |
| 00:12:14,000 | 00:12:16,000 | 之分才對如果那邊有個 |
| 00:12:16,000 | 00:12:18,000 | Gap在那裡你讓我們國軍弟兄 |
| 00:12:18,000 | 00:12:20,000 | 就缺了這個東西 |
| 00:12:20,000 | 00:12:22,000 | 然後我在那邊說 |
| 00:12:22,000 | 00:12:24,000 | 你這個有沒有能力足不足 |
| 00:12:24,000 | 00:12:26,000 | 我覺得就問題不在 |
| 00:12:26,000 | 00:12:28,000 | 你們那邊了所以如果你們 |
| 00:12:28,000 | 00:12:30,000 | 今年的驗證結果哪裡 |
| 00:12:30,000 | 00:12:32,000 | 有不足的地方如果 |
| 00:12:32,000 | 00:12:34,000 | 不涉及機密該讓 |
| 00:12:34,000 | 00:12:36,000 | 社會大眾納稅人知道就該讓社會大眾知道 |
| 00:12:36,000 | 00:12:38,000 | 該讓國防委員會知道就讓我們知道 |
| 00:12:38,000 | 00:12:40,000 | 該保密就保用機密 |
| 00:12:40,000 | 00:12:42,000 | 報告也可以讓我們知道說 |
| 00:12:42,000 | 00:12:44,000 | 不足在這裡所以我要建置 |
| 00:12:44,000 | 00:12:46,000 | 這個所以有什麼什麼什麼 |
| 00:12:46,000 | 00:12:48,000 | 預算那這個時候就會 |
| 00:12:48,000 | 00:12:50,000 | 讓所有事情經由驗證 |
| 00:12:50,000 | 00:12:52,000 | 得到一個合理結果這個是 |
| 00:12:52,000 | 00:12:54,000 | 我給國防部的建議而不是說 |
| 00:12:54,000 | 00:12:56,000 | 需求到底是從哪裡看來 |
| 00:12:56,000 | 00:12:58,000 | 其中這裡就應該看出來 |
| 00:12:58,000 | 00:13:00,000 | 目前為止以這幾年我們看到國防部的 |
| 00:13:00,000 | 00:13:02,000 | 預算其實 |
| 00:13:02,000 | 00:13:04,000 | 其實我不太認為我們現在去反制無人機 |
| 00:13:04,000 | 00:13:06,000 | 的能力是 |
| 00:13:06,000 | 00:13:08,000 | 是足夠的啦 |
| 00:13:08,000 | 00:13:10,000 | 我知道你們是盡力以現有 |
| 00:13:10,000 | 00:13:12,000 | 裝備去處理但是這個 |
| 00:13:12,000 | 00:13:14,000 | 不足夠其實會導致很多 |
| 00:13:14,000 | 00:13:16,000 | 安全的威脅這個是我們 |
| 00:13:16,000 | 00:13:18,000 | 擔憂的所以部長 |
| 00:13:18,000 | 00:13:20,000 | 有沒有可能把驗證結果不足 |
| 00:13:20,000 | 00:13:22,000 | 的部分要轉換成國防預算 |
| 00:13:22,000 | 00:13:24,000 | 採購裝備科研案等等 |
| 00:13:24,000 | 00:13:26,000 | 讓我們委員會可以了解 |
| 00:13:26,000 | 00:13:28,000 | 或參與 |
| 00:13:28,000 | 00:13:30,000 | 我想演習就是 |
| 00:13:30,000 | 00:13:32,000 | 找出那個問題 |
| 00:13:32,000 | 00:13:34,000 | 那有 |
| 00:13:34,000 | 00:13:36,000 | 經由這個驗證 |
| 00:13:36,000 | 00:13:38,000 | 得出問題之所在 |
| 00:13:38,000 | 00:13:40,000 | 之後那麼我們 |
| 00:13:40,000 | 00:13:42,000 | 才能夠做好下一 |
| 00:13:42,000 | 00:13:44,000 | 步的一個規劃 |
| 00:13:44,000 | 00:13:46,000 | 那委員如果 |
| 00:13:46,000 | 00:13:48,000 | 演習了解我想我們 |
| 00:13:48,000 | 00:13:50,000 | 有在看有涉及 |
| 00:13:50,000 | 00:13:52,000 | 機密或不涉及機密 |
| 00:13:52,000 | 00:13:54,000 | 我倒不是講我個人要了解我的意思是說 |
| 00:13:54,000 | 00:13:56,000 | 你們不足 |
| 00:13:56,000 | 00:13:58,000 | 最後可能要變成 |
| 00:13:58,000 | 00:14:00,000 | 我要補強什麼 |
| 00:14:00,000 | 00:14:02,000 | 他會變成國防預算的需求 |
| 00:14:02,000 | 00:14:04,000 | 那這一塊倒是國防部可以主動 |
| 00:14:04,000 | 00:14:06,000 | 請看哪一位找委員願意排說 |
| 00:14:06,000 | 00:14:08,000 | 我們經過漢官四十二號 |
| 00:14:08,000 | 00:14:10,000 | 驗證的結果哪方面能力 |
| 00:14:10,000 | 00:14:12,000 | 不足需要補強什麼 |
| 00:14:12,000 | 00:14:14,000 | 所以我們有什麼預算拜託各位委員支持 |
| 00:14:14,000 | 00:14:16,000 | 大概簡單邏輯在這裡 |
| 00:14:16,000 | 00:14:18,000 | 那如果國防部認為需要的話其實 |
| 00:14:18,000 | 00:14:20,000 | 你們可以發動讓委員會 |
| 00:14:20,000 | 00:14:22,000 | 適度的了解軍方現在能力 |
| 00:14:22,000 | 00:14:24,000 | 不足在哪裡那當然我們的不足 |
| 00:14:24,000 | 00:14:26,000 | 未必要讓威脅方 |
| 00:14:26,000 | 00:14:28,000 | 所以該機密就機密我可以接受 |
| 00:14:28,000 | 00:14:30,000 | 但是在預算的行程 |
| 00:14:30,000 | 00:14:32,000 | 達成共識 |
| 00:14:32,000 | 00:14:34,000 | 也許這是一個方法 |
| 00:14:34,000 | 00:14:36,000 | 這讓部裡面做參考 |
| 00:14:36,000 | 00:14:38,000 | 謝謝部長 |