iVOD / 170783
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伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe @ 第11屆第5會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 請吳立華委員發言諮詢 |
| 00:00:11,000 | 00:00:15,000 | 謝謝主席 有請副主委 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:18,000 | 很可惜沒有主委在 |
| 00:00:19,000 | 00:00:20,000 | 委員好 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:26,000 | 今天特別在內政委員會 |
| 00:00:26,000 | 00:00:27,000 | 邀請原民會 |
| 00:00:28,000 | 00:00:29,000 | 做這樣的一個 |
| 00:00:30,000 | 00:00:31,000 | 專報 |
| 00:00:32,000 | 00:00:34,000 | 但是與此同時此時此刻 |
| 00:00:35,000 | 00:00:38,000 | 我知道的是在行政院的大禮堂 |
| 00:00:38,000 | 00:00:42,000 | 有舉辦一個西拉亞族民族合併 |
| 00:00:42,000 | 00:00:44,000 | 暨正名宣告的一個典禮 |
| 00:00:45,000 | 00:00:50,000 | 西拉亞族加入原住民族的第17族 |
| 00:00:51,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 這是何等 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:53,000 | 困難 |
| 00:00:54,000 | 00:00:55,000 | 何等重要的一件事 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:00:57,000 | 那照理說 |
| 00:00:58,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 我們這些原住民的委員 |
| 00:01:01,000 | 00:01:02,000 | 我們是弟兄姊妹 |
| 00:01:03,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 我們應該要去那個地方 |
| 00:01:05,000 | 00:01:08,000 | 共同的來見證這個很特別的日子 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:10,000 | 但是我非常遺憾 |
| 00:01:11,000 | 00:01:12,000 | 我沒有辦法參與 |
| 00:01:13,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 我真的非常的遺憾 |
| 00:01:15,000 | 00:01:16,000 | 不過呢 今天在這裡 |
| 00:01:17,000 | 00:01:18,000 | 我也要特別提 |
| 00:01:18,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 今天是7月30號 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:21,000 | 前天7月28號 |
| 00:01:22,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 對原住民來講 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:25,000 | 是一個非常重要的日子 |
| 00:01:25,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 因為在1994年 |
| 00:01:29,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 那一天 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:34,000 | 我們從山包正名為原住民 |
| 00:01:34,000 | 00:01:37,000 | 但是經過了這32年 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:40,000 | 我不知道我們有沒有更進步 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:42,000 | 所以我等一下 |
| 00:01:42,000 | 00:01:46,000 | 我特別要來複習這一段歷史的關課 |
| 00:01:46,000 | 00:01:48,000 | 那後天呢 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 8月1號 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:52,000 | 也是非常重要的日子 |
| 00:01:52,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 叫做原住民族日 |
| 00:01:55,000 | 00:01:57,000 | 所以從2005年 |
| 00:01:57,000 | 00:01:59,000 | 制定這個日子 |
| 00:01:59,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 我相信 |
| 00:02:01,000 | 00:02:02,000 | 這些21年來 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 我們也看到很多的演變 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:07,000 | 但是我們到底有沒有變得更好 |
| 00:02:07,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 原住民有沒有變得更進步 |
| 00:02:10,000 | 00:02:11,000 | 那回過頭來 |
| 00:02:11,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 我們要回到1991年這一次的休閒 |
| 00:02:16,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 因為1991年 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 這個中華民國的憲法 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 是在南京議決制定的 |
| 00:02:24,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 來到台灣 |
| 00:02:26,000 | 00:02:27,000 | 我們常常講 |
| 00:02:27,000 | 00:02:30,000 | 這個衣服沒有量身訂製 |
| 00:02:31,000 | 00:02:32,000 | 修修補補 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:34,000 | 怎麼補怎麼改 |
| 00:02:34,000 | 00:02:36,000 | 穿起來就是不好看 |
| 00:02:36,000 | 00:02:37,000 | 就是不舒服 |
| 00:02:38,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 那好不容易呢 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:42,000 | 1991年為了因應中止動員 |
| 00:02:42,000 | 00:02:43,000 | 看亂時期 |
| 00:02:43,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 我們終於開始了休閒 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:48,000 | 可是這一次的休閒我要特別講 |
| 00:02:49,000 | 00:02:51,000 | 當年的這些原權團體 |
| 00:02:51,000 | 00:02:54,000 | 我們原住民的權益促進會 |
| 00:02:54,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 這些團體 |
| 00:02:56,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 他們把握這一次休閒的機會好不容易 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 他們的訴求是什麼呢 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:05,000 | 希望用台灣原住民族 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:08,000 | 這六個字來取代 |
| 00:03:08,000 | 00:03:09,000 | 平地三包 |
| 00:03:09,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 山地三包 |
| 00:03:11,000 | 00:03:14,000 | 可是完全沒有被接納 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:18,000 | 到了1992年的第二次休閒 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:20,000 | 我們看到 |
| 00:03:21,000 | 00:03:23,000 | 國民黨中常會決定 |
| 00:03:23,000 | 00:03:28,000 | 要把三包改成早住民或先住民 |
| 00:03:28,000 | 00:03:31,000 | 引起各界強烈的反彈 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:34,000 | 所以原權團體呢 |
| 00:03:34,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 他們特別到國民大會 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:37,000 | 訴求 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 第一個希望三包 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 要正名為原住民族 |
| 00:03:42,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 所以我們很清楚的看到 |
| 00:03:46,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 所以當時呢 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:49,000 | 民進黨的一個國大 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:51,000 | 叫做吳清貴 |
| 00:03:52,000 | 00:03:56,000 | 他特別有做出一個第34號的提案 |
| 00:03:57,000 | 00:04:00,000 | 他的提案就是說希望叫原住民 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:02,000 | 但是呢不成功 |
| 00:04:02,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 在二讀以前就被封殺 |
| 00:04:05,000 | 00:04:06,000 | 同時呢 |
| 00:04:06,000 | 00:04:09,000 | 當時國民黨的泰雅族委員 |
| 00:04:09,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 翁文德 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 他也做了一個第88號的提案 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 他的版本是寫自由地區原住民 |
| 00:04:19,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 有進入到二讀 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 但是最後呢也沒有成功 |
| 00:04:24,000 | 00:04:27,000 | 所以到了第三次的休閒前夕 |
| 00:04:28,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 我們看到 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 當時的李登輝總統 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:37,000 | 他參加我們南部原住民文化園區的文化會議 |
| 00:04:37,000 | 00:04:41,000 | 他特別講出原住民三個字 |
| 00:04:42,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 我們也看到 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:47,000 | 他跟很多台派的國民黨員呢 |
| 00:04:47,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 也希望他們能夠支持 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:54,000 | 所以促使了國民黨版的休憲草案 |
| 00:04:54,000 | 00:04:57,000 | 把三包寫成了原住民 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:04:59,000 | 我們也看到7月1號 |
| 00:04:59,000 | 00:05:02,000 | 也就是前夕7月28號的前夕 |
| 00:05:02,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 李前總統在接見原權團體的 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 時候公報記錄上寫著 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:10,000 | 當時的國大代表曹啟宏 |
| 00:05:10,000 | 00:05:11,000 | 他有提到 |
| 00:05:11,000 | 00:05:15,000 | 他說李登輝在接見各族代表的時候 |
| 00:05:15,000 | 00:05:19,000 | 當場親口答應不會再做什麼呢 |
| 00:05:19,000 | 00:05:23,000 | 山地原住民平地原住民這種區分 |
| 00:05:23,000 | 00:05:26,000 | 但是國民黨的黨版休憲案 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 對此仍然不願意放鬆 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:30,000 | 所以呢 |
| 00:05:30,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 我們可以看到 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:32,000 | 所以呢 |
| 00:05:32,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 我們可以看到 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:37,000 | 1994年最後7月28號 |
| 00:05:37,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 有兩個提案版本 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:41,000 | 一個是陳菊的版本 |
| 00:05:41,000 | 00:05:44,000 | 他的版本是來接納 |
| 00:05:44,000 | 00:05:48,000 | 我們原權團體的一個版本 |
| 00:05:48,000 | 00:05:52,000 | 也就是寫到台灣原住民族六人 |
| 00:05:52,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 但是呢 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 當時國民黨版提出的叫做 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:57,000 | 自由地區 |
| 00:05:57,000 | 00:06:01,000 | 平地原住民及山地原住民各三人 |
| 00:06:01,000 | 00:06:04,000 | 所以在這裡特別看到 |
| 00:06:04,000 | 00:06:06,000 | 在公報上面有一位 |
| 00:06:06,000 | 00:06:10,000 | 阿美族的國大代表林榮輝 |
| 00:06:10,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 他有特別提到 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:13,000 | 他說 |
| 00:06:13,000 | 00:06:15,000 | 在國民黨黨版的提案當中 |
| 00:06:15,000 | 00:06:18,000 | 內部的討論是基於平地山包 |
| 00:06:18,000 | 00:06:21,000 | 與山地山包的名義分配 |
| 00:06:21,000 | 00:06:24,000 | 但是他裡面也提到 |
| 00:06:24,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 他希望難道我們會分住在山上的 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:29,000 | 叫山地閩南人 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:32,000 | 住在平地的叫平地客家人嗎 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:34,000 | 所以當時也非常同意 |
| 00:06:34,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 就是主張原住民就是原住民 |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:40,000 | 他也表達了一個文字 |
| 00:06:40,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 叫做唯德不足 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 他覺得這個版本唯德不足 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 所以在這個當中 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 我們其實可以明確的感受到 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 像很多的國大代表 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 民進黨的賴坤臣 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 也去主張這樣的看法 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 主張應該要廢除這種對原住民的殖民 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 遺續的分類 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 不論是從清朝清代 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 或者是日本人 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 一直到了國民政府 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:13,000 | 這一種希望能夠給原住民最起碼的尊嚴 |
| 00:07:13,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 能夠廢除 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:17,000 | 但是很可惜我們可以看到 |
| 00:07:17,000 | 00:07:21,000 | 當時的國民大會的代表席次 |
| 00:07:21,000 | 00:07:23,000 | 總共是325席 |
| 00:07:23,000 | 00:07:26,000 | 那麼國民黨254席 |
| 00:07:26,000 | 00:07:28,000 | 民進黨66席 |
| 00:07:28,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 5黨5席 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:31,000 | 所以我們可以看到 |
| 00:07:31,000 | 00:07:33,000 | 當時的一個投票的結果 |
| 00:07:33,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 我們看到民進黨對於自己的一個成局的版本 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:41,000 | 我們可以看到 |
| 00:07:41,000 | 00:07:43,000 | 就是56票 |
| 00:07:43,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 這56票是怎麼來的 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:47,000 | 我要特別說明 |
| 00:07:47,000 | 00:07:50,000 | 就是全部民進黨的49票 |
| 00:07:50,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 加上全部當時原住民國大的7票 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:07:58,000 | 總共56票同意 |
| 00:07:58,000 | 00:08:01,000 | 那在國民黨版的投票 |
| 00:08:01,000 | 00:08:03,000 | 我們可以發現 |
| 00:08:03,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 因為國民黨版是要說自由地區平地三包 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:10,000 | 山地三包 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 所以呢 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:13,000 | 在這個當中我們可以看到 |
| 00:08:13,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 即便是原本國民黨如果全部支持 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:17,000 | 應該可以通過 |
| 00:08:17,000 | 00:08:19,000 | 仍然未通過 |
| 00:08:19,000 | 00:08:20,000 | 所以呢 |
| 00:08:20,000 | 00:08:22,000 | 重新投票之後 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 因為有人離席 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 我特別要交代這一件事情 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:28,000 | 就是要說 |
| 00:08:28,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 我們現在看到的這個定案的現行條文 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:34,000 | 也就是那個時候 |
| 00:08:34,000 | 00:08:36,000 | 我們不得已留下來的條文 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 第四條 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:39,000 | 自由地區平地原住民 |
| 00:08:39,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 及山地原住民各三人 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 所以呢 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 原住民沒有放棄 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:48,000 | 2020年 |
| 00:08:48,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 我來到立法院 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 我參與修憲小組 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:57,000 | 我就是希望能夠延續 |
| 00:08:57,000 | 00:09:00,000 | 過去沒有能夠完成的 |
| 00:09:00,000 | 00:09:02,000 | 這樣的一個使命 |
| 00:09:02,000 | 00:09:04,000 | 但是非常的可惜 |
| 00:09:04,000 | 00:09:08,000 | 我們可以看到連署共39人 |
| 00:09:08,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 我拿去給所有的不分黨派的委員 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:16,000 | 但是我只連署到39人 |
| 00:09:16,000 | 00:09:19,000 | 連要出立法院都沒有辦法 |
| 00:09:19,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 黃論要進入公統 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:24,000 | 所以2024年第二屆 |
| 00:09:24,000 | 00:09:26,000 | 我第11屆進來 |
| 00:09:26,000 | 00:09:30,000 | 我依然提出這樣的一個修憲提案 |
| 00:09:30,000 | 00:09:31,000 | 但是呢 |
| 00:09:31,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 更少了36人連署 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:37,000 | 依舊沒有辦法 |
| 00:09:37,000 | 00:09:39,000 | 我在這邊很高興今天下午 |
| 00:09:39,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 我們會提出原住民的身分法 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:44,000 | 我要特別提到的是 |
| 00:09:44,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 國大原來的修憲程序的門檻 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:47,000 | 就已經很高 |
| 00:09:47,000 | 00:09:50,000 | 現行修憲程序的門檻更高 |
| 00:09:50,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 修憲那麼難 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:55,000 | 那我們就回到原住民身分法去處理 |
| 00:09:55,000 | 00:09:57,000 | 我們主張山地原住民 |
| 00:09:57,000 | 00:09:58,000 | 平地原住民 |
| 00:09:58,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 平埔原住民 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 南島語系的民族 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:03,000 | 原住民就是原住民 |
| 00:10:03,000 | 00:10:07,000 | 今天7月30號 |
| 00:10:07,000 | 00:10:08,000 | 希拉亞族 |
| 00:10:08,000 | 00:10:10,000 | 他能夠正式加入 |
| 00:10:10,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 原住民族的第17族 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:16,000 | 這是一個非常非常重要的日子 |
| 00:10:16,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 所以呢 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:22,000 | 連平埔族希拉亞加入都這麼難了 |
| 00:10:22,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 所以今天的原住民身分法 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 我有一個提案 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:30,000 | 就是第7條的第二項的增列 |
| 00:10:30,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 我希望取消落日條款 |
| 00:10:34,000 | 00:10:35,000 | 為什麼 |
| 00:10:35,000 | 00:10:37,000 | 我剛剛講了 |
| 00:10:37,000 | 00:10:39,000 | 連平埔族連希拉亞族 |
| 00:10:39,000 | 00:10:41,000 | 要加入原住民的大家庭 |
| 00:10:41,000 | 00:10:42,000 | 就這麼難 |
| 00:10:42,000 | 00:10:46,000 | 我們應該讓父母本來可以取得原住民身分 |
| 00:10:46,000 | 00:10:48,000 | 卻因為他們已經死亡 |
| 00:10:48,000 | 00:10:52,000 | 導致無法依父母身分取得原住民身分的人 |
| 00:10:52,000 | 00:10:56,000 | 我們希望他們也可以用傳統名字 |
| 00:10:56,000 | 00:10:57,000 | 取得原住民身分 |
| 00:10:57,000 | 00:10:59,000 | 取消這個落日條款 |
| 00:10:59,000 | 00:11:02,000 | 我覺得這是我們應該 |
| 00:11:02,000 | 00:11:04,000 | 大家一同要來做的事 |
| 00:11:04,000 | 00:11:07,000 | 因為原住民就是原住民 |
| 00:11:07,000 | 00:11:08,000 | 副主委 |
| 00:11:08,000 | 00:11:13,000 | 副主委我今天沒有讓這個成為詢答 |
| 00:11:13,000 | 00:11:16,000 | 沒有讓你回覆任何一句話 |
| 00:11:16,000 | 00:11:23,000 | 我只是希望原民會要很清楚原民會的立場 |
| 00:11:23,000 | 00:11:25,000 | 該堅持的就要堅持 |
| 00:11:25,000 | 00:11:27,000 | 該做的就要做 |
| 00:11:27,000 | 00:11:33,000 | 該去跟各個行政院部會溝通的就該做 |
| 00:11:33,000 | 00:11:36,000 | 我覺得這是原民會最重要的一個任務 |
| 00:11:36,000 | 00:11:40,000 | 那我很希望今天下午的原住民身分法的一個討論 |
| 00:11:40,000 | 00:11:47,000 | 我們能夠幫助我們許多想要成為原住民的這一些族人朋友 |
| 00:11:47,000 | 00:11:50,000 | 能夠一同的進入這個大家庭 |
| 00:11:50,000 | 00:11:52,000 | 指揮大一句可以嗎 |
| 00:11:52,000 | 00:11:53,000 | 謝謝委員的指揮 |
| 00:11:53,000 | 00:11:55,000 | 你會強力捍衛嗎 |
| 00:11:55,000 | 00:11:58,000 | 我們下午申發案的時候我們會一起討論 |
| 00:11:58,000 | 00:12:03,000 | 而且委員提的這個草案的內容事實上我們是支持 |
| 00:12:03,000 | 00:12:04,000 | 好謝謝 |
| 00:12:04,000 | 00:12:05,000 | 謝謝主席 |