iVOD / 170755
本逐字稿內容由 AI 自動生成，可能包含錯誤、遺漏或誤譯之處。請使用者務必與原始影片音訊內容交叉比對，以確保資訊正確性。另可參考立法院日後釋出的正式公報以取得最終權威版本。
許宇甄 @ 第11屆第5會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:01,000 | 發言質詢 |
| 00:00:09,540 | 00:00:12,540 | 謝謝主席 我們請內政部劉部長 |
| 00:00:12,540 | 00:00:14,440 | 跟警政署張署長 |
| 00:00:22,880 | 00:00:24,880 | 部長好 署長好 |
| 00:00:24,880 | 00:00:27,880 | 今天 召委特別安排了一個 |
| 00:00:27,880 | 00:00:29,880 | 就是在上個禮拜六 |
| 00:00:29,880 | 00:00:32,879 | 可以說是引起了大家這個 |
| 00:00:32,879 | 00:00:34,879 | 社會上的一個非常 |
| 00:00:34,879 | 00:00:36,879 | 譁然的一個針對 |
| 00:00:36,879 | 00:00:38,879 | 有關言論自由 |
| 00:00:38,879 | 00:00:39,879 | 還有涉及到 |
| 00:00:39,879 | 00:00:41,879 | 就是是不是有查水表 |
| 00:00:41,879 | 00:00:43,879 | 還有警方的這個執法 |
| 00:00:43,879 | 00:00:45,879 | 的這個標準跟行政中立 |
| 00:00:45,879 | 00:00:47,879 | 到底有沒有什麼問題 |
| 00:00:47,879 | 00:00:49,879 | 所以今天特別安排這樣子的一個 |
| 00:00:49,879 | 00:00:51,879 | 這個報告 |
| 00:00:51,879 | 00:00:53,879 | 那我想中華民國剛剛 |
| 00:00:53,879 | 00:00:55,879 | 部長也特別提到中華民國是一個 |
| 00:00:55,880 | 00:00:57,880 | 法治的國家嗎 |
| 00:00:57,880 | 00:00:59,880 | 那絕對也不允許就是 |
| 00:00:59,880 | 00:01:01,880 | 偽造別人的聲音 |
| 00:01:01,880 | 00:01:03,880 | 那請教一下部長 |
| 00:01:03,880 | 00:01:05,880 | 請問一下就是偽造 |
| 00:01:05,880 | 00:01:07,880 | 的定義是什麼 |
| 00:01:07,880 | 00:01:09,880 | 可以請你說明嗎 |
| 00:01:09,880 | 00:01:11,880 | 報告委員 |
| 00:01:11,880 | 00:01:13,880 | 請請部長好嗎 |
| 00:01:13,880 | 00:01:15,880 | 是 |
| 00:01:15,880 | 00:01:17,880 | 報告委員 |
| 00:01:17,880 | 00:01:19,880 | 偽造一般如果有法律上的 |
| 00:01:19,880 | 00:01:21,880 | 定義的話我們是尊重法律上的 |
| 00:01:21,880 | 00:01:23,880 | 定義 那我告訴部長 |
| 00:01:23,880 | 00:01:25,880 | 法律上的定義是 |
| 00:01:25,880 | 00:01:27,880 | 會經授權冒用他人 |
| 00:01:27,880 | 00:01:29,880 | 名義 這是偽造的 |
| 00:01:29,880 | 00:01:31,880 | 定義 那你在這個影片中 |
| 00:01:31,880 | 00:01:33,880 | 你可以看到一開始就講說 |
| 00:01:33,880 | 00:01:35,880 | 我是本田筆 |
| 00:01:35,880 | 00:01:37,880 | 那所以說這個影片中 |
| 00:01:37,880 | 00:01:39,880 | 有冒用他人的名義嗎 |
| 00:01:41,880 | 00:01:43,880 | 報告委員影片的 |
| 00:01:43,880 | 00:01:45,880 | 所有的內容的來源之中我想 |
| 00:01:45,880 | 00:01:47,880 | 文書的定義 |
| 00:01:47,880 | 00:01:49,880 | 不是只有影片本身還包括 |
| 00:01:49,880 | 00:01:51,880 | 聲音也是文書裡面的 |
| 00:01:51,880 | 00:01:53,880 | 全冒用他人名義嗎 |
| 00:01:53,880 | 00:01:55,880 | 所以我現在請教你的是這個影片 |
| 00:01:55,880 | 00:01:57,880 | 有冒用他人名義嗎 |
| 00:01:59,880 | 00:02:01,880 | 要看這個整篇的 |
| 00:02:01,880 | 00:02:03,880 | 影音影帶 |
| 00:02:03,880 | 00:02:05,880 | 是全部不是只有斷章取義 |
| 00:02:05,880 | 00:02:07,880 | 就是那他現在有說 |
| 00:02:07,880 | 00:02:09,880 | 這個他上面就說 |
| 00:02:09,880 | 00:02:11,880 | 我是本田筆 |
| 00:02:11,880 | 00:02:13,880 | 報告委員都沒有提到 |
| 00:02:13,880 | 00:02:15,880 | 賴總長的名字 |
| 00:02:15,880 | 00:02:17,880 | 我們的重點就是在這個 |
| 00:02:17,880 | 00:02:19,880 | 這個影音到底有沒有 |
| 00:02:19,880 | 00:02:21,880 | 我覺得 |
| 00:02:21,880 | 00:02:23,880 | 我們一直在強調說台灣是民主 |
| 00:02:23,880 | 00:02:25,880 | 法治的國家所以 |
| 00:02:25,880 | 00:02:27,880 | 言論自由是相當重要的 |
| 00:02:27,880 | 00:02:29,880 | 所以說連司法院也都 |
| 00:02:29,880 | 00:02:31,880 | 提到說基於時事的諷刺 |
| 00:02:31,880 | 00:02:33,880 | 評論跟創作 |
| 00:02:33,880 | 00:02:35,880 | 屬於憲法保障 |
| 00:02:35,880 | 00:02:37,880 | 的言論自由 |
| 00:02:37,880 | 00:02:39,880 | 所以說針對這樣子的 |
| 00:02:39,880 | 00:02:41,880 | 這個司法院的這個見解是這樣 |
| 00:02:41,880 | 00:02:43,880 | 那請問一下 |
| 00:02:43,880 | 00:02:45,880 | 可能是尊重言論自由 |
| 00:02:45,880 | 00:02:47,880 | 跟創造自由 |
| 00:02:47,880 | 00:02:49,880 | 法治言論自由不能去觸犯到 |
| 00:02:49,880 | 00:02:51,880 | 法律的這個 |
| 00:02:51,880 | 00:02:53,880 | 好那我們再來看討一下 |
| 00:02:53,880 | 00:02:55,880 | 這個案件我們是 |
| 00:02:55,880 | 00:02:57,880 | 他是7月24上架 |
| 00:02:57,880 | 00:02:59,880 | 那7月25 |
| 00:02:59,880 | 00:03:01,880 | 下午我們的員警就 |
| 00:03:01,880 | 00:03:03,880 | 登門去這個 |
| 00:03:03,880 | 00:03:05,880 | 直接說要去找 |
| 00:03:05,880 | 00:03:07,880 | 尾存佑請問一下當時 |
| 00:03:07,880 | 00:03:09,880 | 有任何的依據 |
| 00:03:09,880 | 00:03:11,880 | 可以登門上訪這個上去 |
| 00:03:11,880 | 00:03:13,880 | 要說要找尾存佑而且要他 |
| 00:03:13,880 | 00:03:15,880 | 去製作筆錄嗎 |
| 00:03:15,880 | 00:03:17,880 | 那這個是前置的對於是不是 |
| 00:03:17,880 | 00:03:19,880 | 查證他的這個帳號 |
| 00:03:19,880 | 00:03:21,880 | 有沒有被冒用 |
| 00:03:21,880 | 00:03:23,880 | 那為什麼你還去做筆錄呢 |
| 00:03:23,880 | 00:03:25,880 | 沒有因為查證完之後就沒有 |
| 00:03:25,880 | 00:03:27,880 | 他講說是他就沒有 |
| 00:03:27,880 | 00:03:29,880 | 要求我來製作筆錄 |
| 00:03:29,880 | 00:03:31,880 | 那所以說就表示這件事情你們就已經 |
| 00:03:31,880 | 00:03:33,880 | 查證了沒有 |
| 00:03:33,880 | 00:03:35,880 | 因為這個案因為是 |
| 00:03:35,880 | 00:03:37,880 | 可能就是 |
| 00:03:37,880 | 00:03:39,880 | 受審語音的部分 |
| 00:03:39,880 | 00:03:41,880 | 剛剛講的就是說如果是 |
| 00:03:41,880 | 00:03:43,880 | 這個偽造的話應該是說 |
| 00:03:43,880 | 00:03:45,880 | 會讓人家冒認 |
| 00:03:45,880 | 00:03:47,880 | 或是你們會覺得會認為是總統 |
| 00:03:47,880 | 00:03:49,880 | 的這個聲音所會引起這樣的 |
| 00:03:49,880 | 00:03:51,880 | 部分可是你看一開始 |
| 00:03:51,880 | 00:03:53,880 | 就講我是本篇筆 |
| 00:03:53,880 | 00:03:55,880 | 那部長會相信 |
| 00:03:55,880 | 00:03:57,880 | 這個是賴總統自己的 |
| 00:03:57,880 | 00:03:59,880 | 配音然後自稱嗎 |
| 00:03:59,880 | 00:04:01,880 | 我是一統這個我是本篇筆 |
| 00:04:01,880 | 00:04:03,880 | 嗎部長您看到這樣的 |
| 00:04:03,880 | 00:04:05,880 | 影片您會認為是總統 |
| 00:04:05,880 | 00:04:07,880 | 的聲音嗎是總統本人嗎 |
| 00:04:07,880 | 00:04:09,880 | 報告委員因為這件已經北檢在 |
| 00:04:09,880 | 00:04:11,880 | 偵辦我這不做任何評析 |
| 00:04:11,880 | 00:04:13,880 | 我想這不是不做任何評析 |
| 00:04:13,880 | 00:04:15,880 | 報告委員我們要尊重 |
| 00:04:15,880 | 00:04:17,880 | 司法警察在辦案所以你們如果 |
| 00:04:17,880 | 00:04:19,880 | 做任何評析的話 |
| 00:04:19,880 | 00:04:21,880 | 反而會影響到辦案 |
| 00:04:21,880 | 00:04:23,880 | 剛剛在這個 |
| 00:04:23,880 | 00:04:25,880 | 我們在開會之前你有受訪嗎 |
| 00:04:25,880 | 00:04:27,880 | 你就有講啦你說 |
| 00:04:27,880 | 00:04:29,880 | 這個台灣這個是屬於民主法 |
| 00:04:29,880 | 00:04:31,880 | 這個國家保障言論自由但不能 |
| 00:04:31,880 | 00:04:33,880 | 偽造別人的聲音啊 |
| 00:04:33,880 | 00:04:35,880 | 所以這個是通案嗎 |
| 00:04:35,880 | 00:04:37,880 | 而且是在幾個月前你已經有受訪 |
| 00:04:37,880 | 00:04:39,880 | 不能偽造別人的聲音我沒有 |
| 00:04:39,880 | 00:04:41,880 | 好那我再請教一下 |
| 00:04:41,880 | 00:04:43,880 | 專業的部分好來去請教 |
| 00:04:43,880 | 00:04:45,880 | 第一個就是好我們的 |
| 00:04:45,880 | 00:04:47,880 | 報告說本案警方依據這個 |
| 00:04:47,880 | 00:04:49,880 | 檢舉內容依法查證依 |
| 00:04:49,880 | 00:04:51,880 | 刑事訴訟法230條跟231條喔 |
| 00:04:51,880 | 00:04:53,880 | 就是 |
| 00:04:53,880 | 00:04:55,880 | 因為司法警察知道 |
| 00:04:55,880 | 00:04:57,880 | 有犯罪嫌疑所以就是 |
| 00:04:57,880 | 00:04:59,880 | 跟這個之父有調查跟 |
| 00:04:59,880 | 00:05:01,880 | 保全證據的法定責任 |
| 00:05:01,880 | 00:05:03,880 | 所以日後只要有人檢舉 |
| 00:05:03,880 | 00:05:05,880 | 這樣的案件所以 |
| 00:05:05,880 | 00:05:07,880 | 這個警察就是一定會去 |
| 00:05:07,880 | 00:05:09,880 | 查訪嗎 |
| 00:05:09,880 | 00:05:11,880 | 我想就是因為個案的 |
| 00:05:11,880 | 00:05:13,880 | 這個狀況就是我們會依照 |
| 00:05:13,880 | 00:05:15,880 | 的個案的偵查的程序 |
| 00:05:15,880 | 00:05:17,880 | 去做了解 |
| 00:05:17,880 | 00:05:19,880 | 24號下架25號就去 |
| 00:05:19,880 | 00:05:21,880 | 上門都查訪嗎 |
| 00:05:21,880 | 00:05:23,880 | 現在看起來就是說這一些 |
| 00:05:23,880 | 00:05:25,880 | 的這個是不是偽造變造 |
| 00:05:25,880 | 00:05:27,880 | 那這些帳號這個帳號 |
| 00:05:27,880 | 00:05:29,880 | 是非常重要是確定是在國外 |
| 00:05:29,880 | 00:05:31,880 | 是國內是非常重要 |
| 00:05:31,880 | 00:05:33,880 | 是不是本人嗎 |
| 00:05:33,880 | 00:05:35,880 | 就是這個報告寫說警方 |
| 00:05:35,880 | 00:05:37,880 | 初步檢視三觀影片內 |
| 00:05:37,880 | 00:05:39,880 | 然後因涉及這個 |
| 00:05:39,880 | 00:05:41,880 | 疑似深度偽造總統的 |
| 00:05:41,880 | 00:05:43,880 | 聲音但是如果在剛剛 |
| 00:05:43,880 | 00:05:45,880 | 我想在這個其他委員 |
| 00:05:45,880 | 00:05:47,880 | 質詢的時候事實上當時 |
| 00:05:47,880 | 00:05:49,880 | 都還沒有鑑定的結果出來嗎 |
| 00:05:49,880 | 00:05:51,880 | 同步鑑定同步鑑定 |
| 00:05:51,880 | 00:05:53,880 | 同步鑑定好那請問一下 |
| 00:05:53,880 | 00:05:55,880 | 是什麼時候鑑定出來的 |
| 00:05:55,880 | 00:05:57,880 | 那個20 |
| 00:05:57,880 | 00:05:59,880 | 25號20號下午 |
| 00:05:59,880 | 00:06:01,880 | 何情局長 |
| 00:06:01,880 | 00:06:03,880 | 什麼時候鑑定出來的 |
| 00:06:03,880 | 00:06:05,880 | 也是當天下午是同步在處理的 |
| 00:06:05,880 | 00:06:07,880 | 你的意思說 |
| 00:06:07,880 | 00:06:09,880 | 一邊鑑定一邊登門上訪 |
| 00:06:09,880 | 00:06:11,880 | 這個嗎各位委員報告 |
| 00:06:11,880 | 00:06:13,880 | 我們之前的前置的查訪階段 |
| 00:06:13,880 | 00:06:15,880 | 就是我們 |
| 00:06:15,880 | 00:06:17,880 | 去了解這個帳號 |
| 00:06:17,880 | 00:06:19,880 | 是不是這個帳號 |
| 00:06:19,880 | 00:06:21,880 | 所以你們先上門然後同步再鑑定 |
| 00:06:21,880 | 00:06:23,880 | 我們沒有任何的 |
| 00:06:23,880 | 00:06:25,880 | 強制作為我們 |
| 00:06:25,880 | 00:06:27,880 | 也沒有限制他的這個自由 |
| 00:06:27,880 | 00:06:29,880 | 那我們表示說就是 |
| 00:06:29,880 | 00:06:31,880 | 還沒有鑑定的結果之前你們 |
| 00:06:31,880 | 00:06:33,880 | 就先登門去這個嗎 |
| 00:06:33,880 | 00:06:35,880 | 去找委員是這樣嗎 |
| 00:06:35,880 | 00:06:37,880 | 同步嘛所以就是還沒有鑑定結果出來 |
| 00:06:37,880 | 00:06:39,880 | 那當時你們是依據哪一點 |
| 00:06:39,880 | 00:06:41,880 | 認為說有犯罪嫌疑 |
| 00:06:41,880 | 00:06:43,880 | 所以你們要登門去查訪 |
| 00:06:43,880 | 00:06:45,880 | 跟委員報告這個案件現在已經在 |
| 00:06:45,880 | 00:06:47,880 | 北檢起訴 |
| 00:06:47,880 | 00:06:49,880 | 好那現在偵查不公開所以沒辦法 |
| 00:06:49,880 | 00:06:51,880 | 好再請教您一下刑法 |
| 00:06:51,880 | 00:06:53,880 | 309條喔你們在報告裡 |
| 00:06:53,880 | 00:06:55,880 | 有提到是公然侮辱罪 |
| 00:06:55,880 | 00:06:57,880 | 310條是毀謗罪 |
| 00:06:57,880 | 00:06:59,880 | 那請問這個影片的內容是說明 |
| 00:06:59,880 | 00:07:01,880 | 本篇筆的相關知識請問 |
| 00:07:01,880 | 00:07:03,880 | 侮辱了誰毀謗了誰 |
| 00:07:03,880 | 00:07:05,880 | 這一樣是相關的內容對不起 |
| 00:07:05,880 | 00:07:07,880 | 容我不要在這邊評論好不好 |
| 00:07:07,880 | 00:07:09,880 | 好那還有再請教 |
| 00:07:09,880 | 00:07:11,880 | 您一下就是這兩樣都是 |
| 00:07:11,880 | 00:07:13,880 | 屬於告訴哪一任 |
| 00:07:13,880 | 00:07:15,880 | 請問總統有提高嗎 |
| 00:07:15,880 | 00:07:17,880 | 這個部分 |
| 00:07:17,880 | 00:07:19,880 | 大概如果是210 |
| 00:07:19,880 | 00:07:21,880 | 216309 |
| 00:07:21,880 | 00:07:23,880 | 跟301這是你們在報告 |
| 00:07:23,880 | 00:07:25,880 | 我們會由 |
| 00:07:25,880 | 00:07:27,880 | 這個檢察官 |
| 00:07:27,880 | 00:07:29,880 | 就是說這兩項都屬於告訴哪一任 |
| 00:07:29,880 | 00:07:31,880 | 你們在報告裡寫說可能有涉及這兩項 |
| 00:07:31,880 | 00:07:33,880 | 請問總統有提高嗎 |
| 00:07:33,880 | 00:07:35,880 | 沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有 |
| 00:07:35,880 | 00:07:37,880 | 那你為什麼有這兩項呢 |
| 00:07:37,880 | 00:07:39,880 | 那可能涉及的法條我們都要去 |
| 00:07:39,880 | 00:07:41,880 | 了解好那另外還有就是說 |
| 00:07:41,880 | 00:07:43,880 | 身為的技術是直接複製他人 |
| 00:07:43,880 | 00:07:45,880 | 的聲音那你們現在鑑定出來 |
| 00:07:45,880 | 00:07:47,880 | 的用身為技術製造出來的 |
| 00:07:47,880 | 00:07:49,880 | 聲音跟本人是完全百分之百 |
| 00:07:49,880 | 00:07:51,880 | 相同嗎 |
| 00:07:51,880 | 00:07:53,880 | 如果在技術 |
| 00:07:53,880 | 00:07:55,880 | 上面的話我們可能要請 |
| 00:07:55,880 | 00:07:57,880 | 專業的技術人員來跟委員來說 |
| 00:07:57,880 | 00:07:59,880 | 所以你有沒有辦法確定是不是百分之百 |
| 00:07:59,880 | 00:08:01,880 | 的相同表示說這個影片就不是 |
| 00:08:01,880 | 00:08:03,880 | 使用別人的聲音嗎只是 |
| 00:08:03,880 | 00:08:05,880 | 類似的聲音啊所以說 |
| 00:08:05,880 | 00:08:07,880 | 要侵害什麼個資 |
| 00:08:07,880 | 00:08:09,880 | 所以你今天的各項報告都讓大家 |
| 00:08:09,880 | 00:08:11,880 | 覺得就是在箝制這個言論自由 |
| 00:08:11,880 | 00:08:13,880 | 希望還是要尊重 |
| 00:08:13,880 | 00:08:15,880 | 司法院的意見就針對這樣的 |
| 00:08:15,880 | 00:08:17,880 | 時事的諷刺評論或創作 |
| 00:08:17,880 | 00:08:19,880 | 屬於憲法保障的言論自由 |
| 00:08:19,880 | 00:08:21,880 | 謝謝 |