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李彥秀 @ 第11屆第5會期財政委員會第24次全體委員會議

Start Time End Time Text
00:00:00,000 00:00:02,000 葉宇秀 委員諮詢
00:00:07,760 00:00:08,760 好 謝謝
00:00:09,500 00:00:12,500 我是不是可以請莊部長
00:00:12,500 00:00:15,000 好 請陳政務莊部長
00:00:19,760 00:00:20,760 委員好
00:00:21,000 00:00:22,000 部長好
00:00:22,000 00:00:26,000 我長期在財委會都一直非常關心
00:00:26,000 00:00:30,000 我們現在全球最低說服制GMT的相關的進度
00:00:30,000 00:00:34,000 整體的進度跟狀況已經不是只上談兵
00:00:34,000 00:00:37,000 現在全球有十多個國家
00:00:37,000 00:00:40,000 已經完成他們國內的立法
00:00:40,000 00:00:45,000 包括越南 包括澳洲等亞洲有好幾個國家也有
00:00:45,000 00:00:49,000 那我們2026年開始面臨當地申報的要求
00:00:49,000 00:00:51,000 那我要請問部長
00:00:51,000 00:00:53,000 就是說我們整體面對GMT
00:00:53,000 00:00:58,000 現在因應的進度相關的法規到底在哪一個階段
00:00:58,000 00:01:02,000 跟委員報告對於有關全球最低說服制
00:01:02,000 00:01:05,000 那財政部已經組成了一個工作小組
00:01:05,000 00:01:08,000 我們必須要對OECD最新發布的文件
00:01:08,000 00:01:13,000 還有其他OECD非屬於IF成員的GMT的
00:01:13,000 00:01:14,000 他如何去檢視
00:01:14,000 00:01:17,000 因為我們本身並不是屬於這個成員國
00:01:17,000 00:01:21,000 那我們如我們的實施必須要根據相關的一些
00:01:21,000 00:01:23,000 檢視的規則來做檢討
00:01:23,000 00:01:25,000 我們會持續的去
00:01:25,000 00:01:26,000 第一個我們有工作小組
00:01:26,000 00:01:29,000 而且我們會對於OECD所發布新的文件
00:01:29,000 00:01:30,000 都要隨時能夠掌握
00:01:30,000 00:01:32,000 部長那我先請問你一句話
00:01:32,000 00:01:36,000 我們GMT最主要的目的
00:01:36,000 00:01:40,000 加入就是希望這15%的稅制嗎
00:01:40,000 00:01:42,000 我們加入的目的是什麼
00:01:42,000 00:01:45,000 希望稅留在台灣
00:01:45,000 00:01:49,000 GMT最主要目的是避免我國的課稅權旁落
00:01:49,000 00:01:51,000 是避免課稅權旁落
00:01:51,000 00:01:53,000 就是應該讓我們可以課得到的稅
00:01:53,000 00:01:55,000 不要讓他們為了減稅
00:01:55,000 00:01:57,000 然後跑到其他國家去
00:01:57,000 00:01:59,000 那你剛剛成立工作小組
00:01:59,000 00:02:00,000 我也認同
00:02:00,000 00:02:03,000 所以我剛一開始說好幾個國家
00:02:03,000 00:02:06,000 都已經法規牌在那邊已經上路了
00:02:06,000 00:02:07,000 所以我才問說
00:02:07,000 00:02:09,000 我們的問題到底出在哪裡
00:02:09,000 00:02:11,000 因為我們現在目前是課12%
00:02:11,000 00:02:15,000 剩下那3%我們當然不擔心的是課不到
00:02:15,000 00:02:18,000 所以你現在到底進度到哪裡嗎
00:02:21,000 00:02:22,000 委員這個部分
00:02:22,000 00:02:24,000 不是你一直說我成立工作小組
00:02:24,000 00:02:26,000 我知道你有成立工作小組
00:02:26,000 00:02:29,000 那但從今年年初開始
00:02:29,000 00:02:32,000 我們已經討論這個問題討論很久了
00:02:32,000 00:02:37,000 所以部長我們什麼時候會有更具體的進度出來
00:02:37,000 00:02:39,000 我想這個部分我們會
00:02:39,000 00:02:40,000 是在你這邊有問題嗎
00:02:40,000 00:02:41,000 還是在行政院
00:02:41,000 00:02:43,000 不是在這邊有問題或在行政院
00:02:43,000 00:02:46,000 而是我們這個部分必須要做審慎的研議
00:02:46,000 00:02:48,000 而且目前來說
00:02:48,000 00:02:50,000 我們在產創條例裡面
00:02:50,000 00:02:51,000 已經有一個就是說
00:02:51,000 00:02:53,000 他已經有一個要求
00:02:53,000 00:02:56,000 就是如果沒有達到15%的話
00:02:56,000 00:02:58,000 他必須按照15%來課這個稅
00:02:58,000 00:03:00,000 這個部分其實對於國際機台
00:03:00,000 00:03:03,000 那我就要跟你接著下去探討
00:03:03,000 00:03:05,000 就是說我們這個草案
00:03:05,000 00:03:08,000 114年度已經開始到討論
00:03:08,000 00:03:10,000 從預告到現在已經一年半
00:03:10,000 00:03:13,000 我同意這件事情應該審慎討論
00:03:13,000 00:03:17,000 但是我們現在台灣我們有一個AMT
00:03:17,000 00:03:20,000 AMT並不是OECD國家
00:03:20,000 00:03:23,000 合格當地補充的稅制
00:03:23,000 00:03:27,000 所以我們台灣的企業依法繳納了稅
00:03:27,000 00:03:29,000 但是繳完之後
00:03:29,000 00:03:32,000 我們也有可能其他國家
00:03:32,000 00:03:34,000 因為所得涵蓋的原則
00:03:34,000 00:03:37,000 還有包括徵收不足的利潤為原則
00:03:37,000 00:03:39,000 就是我們的IR跟UTPR
00:03:39,000 00:03:43,000 同一筆金額可能會有需要
00:03:43,000 00:03:45,000 做到補充課稅
00:03:45,000 00:03:46,000 所以同一筆所得的金額
00:03:46,000 00:03:48,000 變成補充課稅
00:03:48,000 00:03:50,000 這變成說企業在台灣繳的稅
00:03:50,000 00:03:52,000 變成沒有辦法抵繳
00:03:52,000 00:03:54,000 白白的會流到國外
00:03:54,000 00:03:56,000 就是說繳到其他國家去
00:03:56,000 00:03:58,000 這也不是我們願意看到
00:03:58,000 00:04:00,000 而變成是在本國的企業
00:04:00,000 00:04:01,000 變成要雙重
00:04:01,000 00:04:03,000 他負擔國內的稅制
00:04:03,000 00:04:05,000 他又要負擔國外的稅制
00:04:05,000 00:04:07,000 這是我們擔心的問題
00:04:07,000 00:04:09,000 所以為什麼我急著這一年半的時間
00:04:09,000 00:04:11,000 我們草案已經討論一年半
00:04:11,000 00:04:14,000 我也同意說你已經有專案小組原則
00:04:14,000 00:04:16,000 但我一直關心進度
00:04:16,000 00:04:18,000 保護台灣的企業
00:04:18,000 00:04:20,000 讓稅你剛剛講的
00:04:20,000 00:04:22,000 課稅權旁落的原則
00:04:22,000 00:04:23,000 我們希望保護台灣企業
00:04:23,000 00:04:25,000 不要讓他在國內
00:04:25,000 00:04:26,000 已經講的稅在國外又不認同
00:04:26,000 00:04:28,000 在國外又被扣了稅
00:04:28,000 00:04:30,000 那我們也希望福爾歐伊西利國家
00:04:30,000 00:04:32,000 那稅制留在台灣
00:04:32,000 00:04:34,000 所以我們才要趕快上路
00:04:34,000 00:04:36,000 我記得執行應該很善意吧
00:04:36,000 00:04:37,000 部長
00:04:37,000 00:04:39,000 委員您提到就是一個重點
00:04:39,000 00:04:40,000 第一個
00:04:41,000 00:04:43,000 最低稅付制避免是
00:04:43,000 00:04:45,000 我們的課稅主權旁落國家
00:04:45,000 00:04:48,000 但是也要避免我們被重複課稅
00:04:48,000 00:04:50,000 我們被重複課稅
00:04:50,000 00:04:51,000 所以我們這個部分
00:04:51,000 00:04:52,000 關鍵是
00:04:52,000 00:04:54,000 裁副長我問一個問題
00:04:54,000 00:04:56,000 我們的AMT在國際上
00:04:56,000 00:04:58,000 是不是被國際認同
00:04:58,000 00:04:59,000 有可能
00:04:59,000 00:05:00,000 AMT是我們國內自己的稅
00:05:00,000 00:05:01,000
00:05:01,000 00:05:02,000 就是說我們
00:05:02,000 00:05:03,000 我們收了很多稅
00:05:03,000 00:05:05,000 國外並不一定認同
00:05:05,000 00:05:07,000 所以有可能有同一家企業
00:05:07,000 00:05:09,000 他可能在台灣被收了稅
00:05:09,000 00:05:10,000 但在國外還是認為說
00:05:10,000 00:05:12,000 欸你沒有達到15%
00:05:12,000 00:05:14,000 所以我要課你不足15%部分
00:05:14,000 00:05:15,000 有可能嘛
00:05:15,000 00:05:16,000 對不對
00:05:16,000 00:05:17,000 是的
00:05:17,000 00:05:19,000 所以我才關心這整件事情的進度
00:05:19,000 00:05:21,000 所以委員您剛剛也提到一個就是說
00:05:21,000 00:05:23,000 我們不能課稅權旁落
00:05:23,000 00:05:25,000 同時也不能重複課稅
00:05:25,000 00:05:27,000 所以我們才提到說
00:05:27,000 00:05:29,000 我們因為不是OECD裡面
00:05:29,000 00:05:30,000 RF的成員國
00:05:30,000 00:05:32,000 所以他在檢視我們
00:05:32,000 00:05:33,000 課這個稅的時候
00:05:33,000 00:05:35,000 他要不要承認我們課這個稅
00:05:35,000 00:05:38,000 才不會被人家去重複課稅
00:05:38,000 00:05:39,000 這個就是我們要去檢視他
00:05:39,000 00:05:40,000 對於這樣的國家
00:05:40,000 00:05:41,000 對嘛
00:05:41,000 00:05:42,000 對部長
00:05:42,000 00:05:43,000 但是委員這
00:05:43,000 00:05:46,000 但是他這個文件到目前都還沒有
00:05:46,000 00:05:47,000 還沒有發佈嘛
00:05:47,000 00:05:48,000 對不對
00:05:48,000 00:05:49,000 他還沒有發佈
00:05:49,000 00:05:50,000 這個檢視文件還沒有發佈啊
00:05:50,000 00:05:51,000
00:05:51,000 00:05:52,000 我們的檢視文件
00:05:52,000 00:05:53,000 還是他們的檢視
00:05:53,000 00:05:54,000 他們的檢視文件
00:05:54,000 00:05:55,000 你說OECD國家的
00:05:55,000 00:05:57,000 OECD對於不是RF成員國裡面
00:05:57,000 00:05:58,000 成員國裡面
00:05:58,000 00:06:00,000 他課徵所謂的相關的稅
00:06:00,000 00:06:01,000 部長
00:06:01,000 00:06:02,000
00:06:02,000 00:06:04,000 不管OECD國家
00:06:04,000 00:06:06,000 他有沒有承擔在其他國家
00:06:06,000 00:06:07,000 有可能成員
00:06:07,000 00:06:10,000 這有可能還是被課稅喔
00:06:11,000 00:06:12,000 跟委員
00:06:12,000 00:06:14,000 這個是跟委員剛剛告告的
00:06:14,000 00:06:15,000 他被重複課稅
00:06:15,000 00:06:17,000 他要跟誰誰是申附啊
00:06:17,000 00:06:18,000 是啊
00:06:18,000 00:06:19,000 所以這就是我們目前
00:06:19,000 00:06:20,000 扣我們申附嗎
00:06:20,000 00:06:22,000 我們在國外被扣的時候拿回來
00:06:22,000 00:06:23,000 你不要再
00:06:23,000 00:06:24,000 你已經扣我一次
00:06:24,000 00:06:26,000 所以一定要我們要避免這樣的一個情況
00:06:26,000 00:06:27,000
00:06:27,000 00:06:29,000 所以這就是現在我們在
00:06:29,000 00:06:30,000 討論的時候談到的事情
00:06:30,000 00:06:31,000 那還要多久
00:06:31,000 00:06:32,000 那當然這個部分
00:06:32,000 00:06:35,000 當然接受複查也不一定會過啦
00:06:35,000 00:06:36,000 我這邊就有好幾個案例
00:06:36,000 00:06:38,000 所以我才說我們趕快
00:06:38,000 00:06:40,000 符合國際法規接軌
00:06:40,000 00:06:41,000 是的
00:06:41,000 00:06:43,000 然後也保護台灣的產業嘛
00:06:43,000 00:06:44,000 那所以你還要多久
00:06:44,000 00:06:46,000 這個部分我們想盡快我們可以
00:06:46,000 00:06:48,000 再把他一個研究成果出來以後
00:06:48,000 00:06:50,000 再按這句來判斷
00:06:50,000 00:06:52,000 我覺得財政部在最近
00:06:52,000 00:06:54,000 包括上個禮拜我們討論的那個
00:06:54,000 00:06:55,000 這個一陣睡法
00:06:55,000 00:06:57,000 大法官就是在最後關鍵兩年
00:06:57,000 00:06:58,000 已經時間快到了
00:06:58,000 00:07:00,000 我們法案還沒送出來
00:07:00,000 00:07:01,000 還有我今天關心
00:07:01,000 00:07:04,000 我覺得我們很多重要的法規法案
00:07:04,000 00:07:08,000 速度都稍嫌慢了一些
00:07:08,000 00:07:09,000 部長我今天很客氣
00:07:09,000 00:07:10,000 謝謝
00:07:10,000 00:07:11,000 所以我覺得
00:07:11,000 00:07:12,000 一陣睡法明天
00:07:12,000 00:07:16,000 這對產業的影響衝擊是非常大的
00:07:16,000 00:07:17,000 好一陣睡法明天
00:07:17,000 00:07:18,000 就會提報院會了
00:07:18,000 00:07:19,000
00:07:19,000 00:07:20,000 好部長
00:07:20,000 00:07:21,000 這個也是
00:07:21,000 00:07:22,000 所以部長我要提醒你
00:07:22,000 00:07:25,000 我覺得我們租稅優惠的結構
00:07:25,000 00:07:28,000 整體的結構是有點失靈的狀況
00:07:28,000 00:07:29,000 我是不是可以順便請一下
00:07:29,000 00:07:31,000 我們經濟部發展署
00:07:31,000 00:07:32,000 產業發展署
00:07:32,000 00:07:33,000 我為什麼這麼說
00:07:33,000 00:07:35,000 我們產券條例
00:07:35,000 00:07:37,000 產業創新條例裡面
00:07:37,000 00:07:39,000 取得越多投資抵減的企業
00:07:39,000 00:07:42,000 在租稅優惠有優惠的部分
00:07:42,000 00:07:45,000 反而他其中稅率被壓得更低
00:07:45,000 00:07:48,000 然後也觸發補稅門檻的風險
00:07:48,000 00:07:50,000 也有可能上升
00:07:50,000 00:07:52,000 所以在GMT時代
00:07:52,000 00:07:56,000 反而成為未來會觸發補稅的未爆彈
00:07:56,000 00:07:58,000 這就是我剛才講的
00:07:58,000 00:07:59,000 他賺的越多
00:07:59,000 00:08:00,000 利潤越多
00:08:00,000 00:08:02,000 有時候在產業創新條例裡面
00:08:02,000 00:08:05,000 因為他有很多的出稅優惠在裡面
00:08:05,000 00:08:06,000 反而相對的
00:08:06,000 00:08:07,000 在GMT的時代
00:08:07,000 00:08:09,000 有可能到其他國家去
00:08:09,000 00:08:11,000 他可能觸發要補稅
00:08:11,000 00:08:12,000 對不對
00:08:12,000 00:08:13,000 部長你了解我的意思
00:08:13,000 00:08:14,000 因為我們現在對於很多產業
00:08:14,000 00:08:17,000 我們有一些出稅的優惠
00:08:17,000 00:08:19,000 經濟部也很清楚
00:08:19,000 00:08:21,000 那反而賺的越多
00:08:21,000 00:08:22,000 他反而在GMT
00:08:22,000 00:08:25,000 他有可能有補稅的可能性
00:08:25,000 00:08:29,000 那另外在我們的產業創新條例裡面
00:08:29,000 00:08:31,000 第十條之二
00:08:31,000 00:08:33,000 台版的經驗法當中
00:08:33,000 00:08:35,000 我們又要求說
00:08:35,000 00:08:37,000 抵減稅的一些條件
00:08:37,000 00:08:39,000 最重要的是有效稅
00:08:39,000 00:08:41,000 必須要達到15%
00:08:41,000 00:08:42,000 才能夠抵減
00:08:42,000 00:08:45,000 所以在產業創新條例裡面
00:08:45,000 00:08:47,000 光是我講的這兩條
00:08:47,000 00:08:50,000 它就有抵觸的地方
00:08:50,000 00:08:52,000 我們一邊又要求說
00:08:52,000 00:08:53,000 台灣經驗法裡面
00:08:53,000 00:08:54,000 我們鼓勵企業就是說
00:08:54,000 00:08:56,000 你一定要15%以上
00:08:56,000 00:08:57,000 我們才能夠抵稅
00:08:57,000 00:08:59,000 但是在某一些企業裡面
00:08:59,000 00:09:01,000 我們又講說
00:09:02,000 00:09:03,000 減的越多
00:09:03,000 00:09:05,000 就是說賺的越多
00:09:05,000 00:09:07,000 然後我們有一些稅率
00:09:07,000 00:09:09,000 有的優惠壓的越低
00:09:09,000 00:09:10,000 反而有補稅的門檻
00:09:10,000 00:09:12,000 所以我要提一個案例
00:09:12,000 00:09:13,000 是上次我也提過的
00:09:13,000 00:09:14,000 就是說在國際上
00:09:14,000 00:09:16,000 包括新加坡跟越南
00:09:16,000 00:09:18,000 他們已經迅速的針對GMT
00:09:18,000 00:09:20,000 他們有做了一些
00:09:20,000 00:09:22,000 改變過去傳統的租稅獎勵
00:09:22,000 00:09:24,000 轉為現金補貼
00:09:24,000 00:09:26,000 我不再用租稅優惠
00:09:26,000 00:09:28,000 因為15%嘛
00:09:28,000 00:09:30,000 所以我現在用現金補貼
00:09:30,000 00:09:32,000 跟現金退稅的實質的誘因
00:09:32,000 00:09:34,000 來避免就是說
00:09:34,000 00:09:36,000 剛才我講產生條例
00:09:36,000 00:09:37,000 很抵觸的地方
00:09:37,000 00:09:38,000 所以部長
00:09:38,000 00:09:40,000 我們這個部分
00:09:40,000 00:09:42,000 有沒有可能進行研議
00:09:43,000 00:09:44,000 謝謝委員
00:09:44,000 00:09:46,000 就是我們財政部
00:09:46,000 00:09:48,000 每次都會提的各部會提出
00:09:48,000 00:09:50,000 租稅優惠的時候
00:09:50,000 00:09:51,000 我們都必須要提出
00:09:51,000 00:09:53,000 或者是委員們的提案的時候
00:09:53,000 00:09:55,000 都提到財政紀律法裡面
00:09:55,000 00:09:57,000 一再提到的就是
00:09:57,000 00:09:58,000 所以部長你這個部分
00:09:58,000 00:10:00,000 會放進去研議嗎
00:10:00,000 00:10:01,000 因為你現在還沒出來嘛
00:10:01,000 00:10:03,000 租稅優惠不可過渡
00:10:03,000 00:10:05,000 我們一直有在強調這些
00:10:05,000 00:10:06,000 所以你講的就是
00:10:06,000 00:10:07,000 租稅優惠是過渡
00:10:07,000 00:10:10,000 未來像新加坡跟越南的做法
00:10:10,000 00:10:12,000 做法那當然這個部分
00:10:12,000 00:10:14,000 有關有些相關的補貼
00:10:14,000 00:10:15,000 補助的部分是屬於
00:10:15,000 00:10:17,000 經濟部的一個權責
00:10:17,000 00:10:19,000 所以經濟部
00:10:19,000 00:10:21,000 那經濟部可不可以回應我
00:10:22,000 00:10:23,000 是 跟委員報告
00:10:23,000 00:10:25,000 目前我們產創條例第九條的
00:10:25,000 00:10:27,000 補貼的部分是政府補助
00:10:27,000 00:10:30,000 那目前是針對研發做補助
00:10:30,000 00:10:32,000 所以業者只要針對研發面
00:10:32,000 00:10:34,000 有需要相關的一些
00:10:34,000 00:10:35,000 那你這樣怎麼還是沒有
00:10:35,000 00:10:36,000 回應到我的問題
00:10:36,000 00:10:38,000 部長你很清楚
00:10:38,000 00:10:40,000 整套矛盾在哪裡嗎
00:10:40,000 00:10:41,000 你很知道整套經濟
00:10:41,000 00:10:42,000 因為這個是一個
00:10:42,000 00:10:44,000 跨部會的問題
00:10:44,000 00:10:46,000 你GMP是一個跨部會的問題
00:10:46,000 00:10:47,000 你剛剛說要審慎研議
00:10:47,000 00:10:48,000 我們有專案小組
00:10:48,000 00:10:50,000 有把經濟部納進來
00:10:50,000 00:10:52,000 這就是其他國家是跨部會
00:10:52,000 00:10:54,000 再去處理這整個問題
00:10:54,000 00:10:56,000 那你現在有專案小組
00:10:56,000 00:10:57,000 是一個跨部會的專案小組
00:10:57,000 00:10:59,000 我也認同
00:10:59,000 00:11:00,000 所以我們才要解決問題
00:11:00,000 00:11:02,000 你有一年半的時間
00:11:02,000 00:11:03,000 在研議這些問題
00:11:03,000 00:11:05,000 那居然現在經濟部還是回答說
00:11:05,000 00:11:07,000 我們這個是針對研發的部分
00:11:07,000 00:11:09,000 所以我們這整件事情
00:11:09,000 00:11:10,000 有專案小組
00:11:10,000 00:11:12,000 但是沒有跨部會解決問題
00:11:12,000 00:11:13,000 這是我今天質詢的重點
00:11:13,000 00:11:15,000 所以我有三個具體要求
00:11:15,000 00:11:16,000 我也不再用別人時間
00:11:16,000 00:11:18,000 第一個我們想辦法
00:11:18,000 00:11:21,000 要加速符合OECD標準的QDMTT
00:11:21,000 00:11:23,000 確保我們未來稅收
00:11:23,000 00:11:24,000 百分之百可以留在台灣
00:11:24,000 00:11:26,000 這是你我共同的目標
00:11:26,000 00:11:28,000 第二在保護跨國企業
00:11:28,000 00:11:30,000 順利接軌GMP之前
00:11:30,000 00:11:31,000 我們要積極輔導企業
00:11:31,000 00:11:34,000 適用避風港的條款
00:11:34,000 00:11:36,000 可以降低企業遵循成本
00:11:36,000 00:11:38,000 那第三經濟部
00:11:38,000 00:11:40,000 我認為經濟部應該即刻研議
00:11:40,000 00:11:44,000 把租稅低減轉型為實質現金
00:11:44,000 00:11:46,000 也是比照新加坡跟越南的方式
00:11:46,000 00:11:48,000 的防禦策略
00:11:48,000 00:11:50,000 我想這三個比較具體的建議
00:11:50,000 00:11:52,000 當然是我個人的想法
00:11:52,000 00:11:54,000 但是我非常期望
00:11:54,000 00:11:56,000 這是一個跨部會的
00:11:56,000 00:11:58,000 整體的政策問題
00:11:58,000 00:12:00,000 面對台灣有這麼多
00:12:00,000 00:12:04,000 我們的護國群山
00:12:04,000 00:12:06,000 我覺得我們要想辦法
00:12:06,000 00:12:08,000 跨部會來去解決這些問題
00:12:08,000 00:12:10,000 所以部長可以再多給你一點點時間
00:12:10,000 00:12:12,000 但是這個絕對不能
00:12:12,000 00:12:14,000 研議在小組裡面
00:12:14,000 00:12:16,000 但是我今天我聽到經濟部的回應
00:12:16,000 00:12:18,000 我覺得你們沒有跨部會的研究
00:12:18,000 00:12:20,000 這是我覺得非常遺憾的地方
00:12:20,000 00:12:22,000 所以GNT喊了這麼久
00:12:22,000 00:12:24,000 我覺得還是只上作業
00:12:24,000 00:12:26,000 以上這是我今天的質詢
00:12:26,000 00:12:28,000 謝謝委員