iVOD / 170729
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吳秉叡 @ 第11屆第5會期財政委員會第24次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:09,000 | 主席麻煩請財政部莊部長 |
| 00:00:09,000 | 00:00:11,000 | 請莊部長 |
| 00:00:15,000 | 00:00:16,000 | 委員好 |
| 00:00:16,000 | 00:00:18,000 | 這個題目喔 |
| 00:00:18,000 | 00:00:22,000 | 是從去年的這個美國發布的對等關稅 |
| 00:00:22,000 | 00:00:24,000 | 才開始引起的 |
| 00:00:24,000 | 00:00:29,000 | 那後來因為被美國的這個大法官宣告說 |
| 00:00:29,000 | 00:00:33,000 | 這個對等關稅的課徵的時候是違憲 |
| 00:00:33,000 | 00:00:35,000 | 所以現在還有一些在退還 |
| 00:00:35,000 | 00:00:39,000 | 那所有的他們行政美國行政機關就改用 |
| 00:00:39,000 | 00:00:41,000 | 特別301對於這個勞動的調查 |
| 00:00:41,000 | 00:00:43,000 | 還有對於傾銷的調查 |
| 00:00:43,000 | 00:00:46,000 | 那所以就這個一體而言 |
| 00:00:46,000 | 00:00:49,000 | 你認為這個是不是跟美國談判之間的情勢 |
| 00:00:49,000 | 00:00:51,000 | 有沒有變更啊 |
| 00:00:51,000 | 00:00:52,000 | 目前來說 |
| 00:00:52,000 | 00:00:55,000 | 跟美國談判我們之前有所簽訂的 |
| 00:00:56,000 | 00:01:00,000 | 那在這一次美國的一個強迫勞動的調查301條款裡面 |
| 00:01:00,000 | 00:01:04,000 | 那台灣是10%而且不疊加MFN |
| 00:01:04,000 | 00:01:07,000 | 而且還有2300 |
| 00:01:07,000 | 00:01:09,000 | 2231項產品是豁免 |
| 00:01:09,000 | 00:01:14,000 | 那這個部分其實跟當時談的一個比較好的一個結果是相關的 |
| 00:01:14,000 | 00:01:19,000 | 那我想我們台美談判的也會持續的取得一個優惠的條件 |
| 00:01:19,000 | 00:01:20,000 | 我相信相關 |
| 00:01:20,000 | 00:01:23,000 | 我現在的問題是你注意聽我的問題 |
| 00:01:23,000 | 00:01:26,000 | 我說我們這個車輛關稅的這個問題 |
| 00:01:26,000 | 00:01:28,000 | 因為以前對等關稅的時候 |
| 00:01:28,000 | 00:01:30,000 | 他要求我們要降關稅嘛 |
| 00:01:30,000 | 00:01:33,000 | 那現在改成勞動條件 |
| 00:01:33,000 | 00:01:35,000 | 301的調查時候 |
| 00:01:35,000 | 00:01:37,000 | 美方還有做這樣的要求嗎 |
| 00:01:37,000 | 00:01:38,000 | 這個狀況有沒有改變 |
| 00:01:38,000 | 00:01:41,000 | 我們談判的基礎有沒有改變 |
| 00:01:41,000 | 00:01:44,000 | 談判的基礎並沒有變動 |
| 00:01:44,000 | 00:01:47,000 | 所以301條款對我們來說其實是相對優惠的 |
| 00:01:47,000 | 00:01:49,000 | 301條款那個我有看新聞 |
| 00:01:49,000 | 00:01:50,000 | 我有看新聞,我了解 |
| 00:01:50,000 | 00:01:54,000 | 我是意思說因為我們今天在談的是車輛的關稅 |
| 00:01:54,000 | 00:01:58,000 | 那因為這個議題一開始遠深是因為我們跟美國之間 |
| 00:01:58,000 | 00:02:00,000 | 為了這個對等關稅才引起的 |
| 00:02:00,000 | 00:02:02,000 | 那所以政府很認真 |
| 00:02:02,000 | 00:02:03,000 | 也都去做了談判 |
| 00:02:03,000 | 00:02:05,000 | 那談判的結果也都很好 |
| 00:02:05,000 | 00:02:09,000 | 可是現在談判的基礎已經從對等關稅變成特別301 |
| 00:02:09,000 | 00:02:13,000 | 尤其是勞動條件這個改變上面的調查 |
| 00:02:13,000 | 00:02:15,000 | 那這個調查台灣沒有問題 |
| 00:02:15,000 | 00:02:18,000 | 台灣基本上沒有特別去努力勞工 |
| 00:02:18,000 | 00:02:20,000 | 除了計少數的個案 |
| 00:02:20,000 | 00:02:23,000 | 是加班有沒有服務或規範之外 |
| 00:02:23,000 | 00:02:25,000 | 其他的沒這個問題嘛 |
| 00:02:25,000 | 00:02:31,000 | 那我的意思說現在這美國還在要求我們車輛的關稅要降嗎 |
| 00:02:32,000 | 00:02:33,000 | 還是已經沒有了 |
| 00:02:33,000 | 00:02:35,000 | 在談判的過程當中 |
| 00:02:35,000 | 00:02:39,000 | 在301調查裡面我們是針對他的議題來提出來的 |
| 00:02:39,000 | 00:02:41,000 | 那ART已經簽了對不對 |
| 00:02:41,000 | 00:02:45,000 | 那未來如何在ART裡面所簽的項目如何來落實 |
| 00:02:45,000 | 00:02:47,000 | 這個部分之前行政院也提過 |
| 00:02:47,000 | 00:02:50,000 | 就一定要完成國內的相關的程序 |
| 00:02:50,000 | 00:02:52,000 | 那至於美國在談判的過程 |
| 00:02:52,000 | 00:02:55,000 | 有沒有再提出來這樣的一個要求 |
| 00:02:55,000 | 00:02:58,000 | 那我想這個是談判辦公室的了解 |
| 00:02:58,000 | 00:02:59,000 | 所以你也不清楚就對了 |
| 00:02:59,000 | 00:03:00,000 | 對 是的 |
| 00:03:00,000 | 00:03:01,000 | 好 那再來就是說 |
| 00:03:01,000 | 00:03:02,000 | 那如果是這樣 |
| 00:03:02,000 | 00:03:06,000 | 因為是對美國對等關稅開始一連串的衍生 |
| 00:03:06,000 | 00:03:10,000 | 那請問這個車輛降關稅是針對美國的車呢 |
| 00:03:10,000 | 00:03:13,000 | 還是對全世界其他所有的車都是一致 |
| 00:03:13,000 | 00:03:15,000 | 當然在剛剛經濟部也說很清楚 |
| 00:03:15,000 | 00:03:16,000 | 在台美談判的時候 |
| 00:03:16,000 | 00:03:19,000 | 那是對美國這是雙邊的一個談判 |
| 00:03:19,000 | 00:03:22,000 | 只對美國車進口就要降關稅 |
| 00:03:22,000 | 00:03:25,000 | 那如果說海關進口稅則修正的話 |
| 00:03:25,000 | 00:03:26,000 | 是全面性的降 |
| 00:03:26,000 | 00:03:27,000 | 那是完全不一樣的 |
| 00:03:27,000 | 00:03:29,000 | 對啊 所以今天的議題是 |
| 00:03:29,000 | 00:03:32,000 | 要動我們的國內法去全面降關稅喔 |
| 00:03:32,000 | 00:03:33,000 | 是的 |
| 00:03:33,000 | 00:03:36,000 | 所以跟你今天說要跟美國之間的這個事情 |
| 00:03:36,000 | 00:03:39,000 | 其實是沒有在完全一致的平台上喔 |
| 00:03:39,000 | 00:03:40,000 | 是不一致 |
| 00:03:40,000 | 00:03:41,000 | 因為台美是雙邊的 |
| 00:03:41,000 | 00:03:42,000 | 只針對美國這一塊 |
| 00:03:43,000 | 00:03:45,000 | 其實美國車要來台灣 |
| 00:03:45,000 | 00:03:47,000 | 它的困擾還不只有關稅啦 |
| 00:03:47,000 | 00:03:50,000 | 因為美國是要在美規做車輛 |
| 00:03:50,000 | 00:03:53,000 | 台灣過去主要都是歐規車 |
| 00:03:53,000 | 00:03:55,000 | 所以美規跟歐規都不一樣 |
| 00:03:55,000 | 00:03:58,000 | 這中間的差距事實上要做調整 |
| 00:03:58,000 | 00:04:01,000 | 不然的話美國的車子就算 |
| 00:04:01,000 | 00:04:04,000 | 美國生產的車子也很難這樣順利進到台灣來 |
| 00:04:04,000 | 00:04:07,000 | 因為有其他非關稅壁壘啊 |
| 00:04:07,000 | 00:04:10,000 | 光是檢驗各方面都困難啦 |
| 00:04:10,000 | 00:04:13,000 | 那因為這個議題一直不確定 |
| 00:04:13,000 | 00:04:15,000 | 造成市場上一個狀況 |
| 00:04:15,000 | 00:04:18,000 | 就是這一兩年來 |
| 00:04:18,000 | 00:04:20,000 | 車子的銷售情況都很不好 |
| 00:04:20,000 | 00:04:23,000 | 因為很多消費者他認為他再忍一下 |
| 00:04:23,000 | 00:04:25,000 | 他再等一下 |
| 00:04:25,000 | 00:04:27,000 | 搞不好就降稅了 |
| 00:04:27,000 | 00:04:29,000 | 就可以省很多錢了 |
| 00:04:29,000 | 00:04:32,000 | 所以這個事情變成是有一點 |
| 00:04:32,000 | 00:04:34,000 | 為了要想要省點錢 |
| 00:04:34,000 | 00:04:36,000 | 所以有一種消費遞延的狀況 |
| 00:04:36,000 | 00:04:38,000 | 部長你了解這種狀況嗎 |
| 00:04:38,000 | 00:04:40,000 | 沒有錯委員說的確實是 |
| 00:04:40,000 | 00:04:43,000 | 也就是說有持續觀望的態度 |
| 00:04:43,000 | 00:04:46,000 | 這個可以從我們的貨物稅跟特銷稅裡面成形 |
| 00:04:46,000 | 00:04:48,000 | 好那如果是這樣的話 |
| 00:04:48,000 | 00:04:50,000 | 這個事情我從去年就問到現在 |
| 00:04:50,000 | 00:04:51,000 | 已經快要一年了 |
| 00:04:51,000 | 00:04:53,000 | 什麼時候才能夠定案 |
| 00:04:53,000 | 00:04:56,000 | 你不定案這個狀況就沒辦法解決 |
| 00:04:56,000 | 00:04:58,000 | 還是你宣布說不可能 |
| 00:04:58,000 | 00:05:00,000 | 你們要消費就趕快消費 |
| 00:05:00,000 | 00:05:03,000 | 那這樣又變成欺騙國民的問題 |
| 00:05:03,000 | 00:05:05,000 | 所以這個事情一直拖在那邊 |
| 00:05:05,000 | 00:05:07,000 | 對整個台灣的車界 |
| 00:05:07,000 | 00:05:09,000 | 是一件很不利的事情 |
| 00:05:09,000 | 00:05:12,000 | 那個經濟部產發署的周副署長 |
| 00:05:12,000 | 00:05:14,000 | 你也來幫忙回答這一題 |
| 00:05:14,000 | 00:05:16,000 | 我的意思是這個一直不定 |
| 00:05:16,000 | 00:05:18,000 | 對台灣的車市 |
| 00:05:18,000 | 00:05:21,000 | 事實上是變成在銷售上有很大的傷害 |
| 00:05:22,000 | 00:05:25,000 | 是跟委員報告確實如您所言 |
| 00:05:25,000 | 00:05:27,000 | 這個民眾觀望的態度 |
| 00:05:27,000 | 00:05:29,000 | 在去年暑假以後 |
| 00:05:29,000 | 00:05:31,000 | 其實就很明顯的浮現 |
| 00:05:31,000 | 00:05:33,000 | 所以經濟部跟財政部 |
| 00:05:33,000 | 00:05:34,000 | 在去年九月的時候 |
| 00:05:34,000 | 00:05:36,000 | 其實也透過大院的協助 |
| 00:05:36,000 | 00:05:39,000 | 通過了貨物稅減稅的一個修法 |
| 00:05:39,000 | 00:05:42,000 | 那目前整車汽車的部分 |
| 00:05:42,000 | 00:05:45,000 | 新購汽車可以有五萬塊的減免貨物稅 |
| 00:05:45,000 | 00:05:47,000 | 另外還有五萬的太舊換新減免 |
| 00:05:47,000 | 00:05:49,000 | 我知道因為那個是我們通過的 |
| 00:05:49,000 | 00:05:50,000 | 我了解 |
| 00:05:50,000 | 00:05:51,000 | 我先問你的問題 |
| 00:05:51,000 | 00:05:53,000 | 我們針對問題好不好 |
| 00:05:53,000 | 00:05:55,000 | 我說這個到底什麼時候才能定案 |
| 00:05:55,000 | 00:05:56,000 | 因為你一直不定案 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:58,000 | 這個狀況就會一直存在 |
| 00:05:58,000 | 00:06:00,000 | 是這個什麼ART的這個協議 |
| 00:06:00,000 | 00:06:03,000 | 這個協議因為涉及到美方他的法源依據 |
| 00:06:03,000 | 00:06:05,000 | 必須要做一些調整 |
| 00:06:05,000 | 00:06:08,000 | 那目前我的了解是還沒有完成調整 |
| 00:06:08,000 | 00:06:12,000 | 這個可能還是要回到經貿談判辦公室 |
| 00:06:12,000 | 00:06:14,000 | 那邊才有辦法知道最新的進度 |
| 00:06:16,000 | 00:06:19,000 | 所以大家都是在憑空在等嗎 |
| 00:06:19,000 | 00:06:20,000 | 人家一直問我 |
| 00:06:20,000 | 00:06:22,000 | 我也只能說還在談還在談 |
| 00:06:22,000 | 00:06:23,000 | 跟委員報告 |
| 00:06:23,000 | 00:06:26,000 | 今年上半年這個整車 |
| 00:06:26,000 | 00:06:28,000 | 整車的這個不管是產值 |
| 00:06:28,000 | 00:06:30,000 | 或者是一個銷售的情形 |
| 00:06:30,000 | 00:06:31,000 | 跟去年的同期比較 |
| 00:06:31,000 | 00:06:33,000 | 其實是有微幅成長1到2% |
| 00:06:33,000 | 00:06:35,000 | 1到2% |
| 00:06:35,000 | 00:06:38,000 | 問題是去年整個就衰退了不知道幾十% |
| 00:06:38,000 | 00:06:41,000 | 去年應該是從4月份開始以後 |
| 00:06:41,000 | 00:06:42,000 | 開始衰退 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 對啊那衰退那麼多 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:45,000 | 今年跟去年比 |
| 00:06:45,000 | 00:06:47,000 | 你跟一個成績最差的年度比 |
| 00:06:47,000 | 00:06:48,000 | 然後還增加1、2%而已 |
| 00:06:48,000 | 00:06:50,000 | 所以其實很多人都在等 |
| 00:06:50,000 | 00:06:52,000 | 那大家也都在抱怨說 |
| 00:06:52,000 | 00:06:54,000 | 到底這個事情要怎麼樣 |
| 00:06:54,000 | 00:06:56,000 | 因為我跟你講 |
| 00:06:56,000 | 00:06:58,000 | 我以前在縣政府服務的時候 |
| 00:06:58,000 | 00:07:01,000 | 我們蘇貞昌縣長曾經說過 |
| 00:07:01,000 | 00:07:03,000 | 假案也好、疑案也好 |
| 00:07:03,000 | 00:07:05,000 | 拖延案最不好 |
| 00:07:05,000 | 00:07:07,000 | 因為拖延案就是不確定的狀況 |
| 00:07:07,000 | 00:07:09,000 | 好那先請你回座 |
| 00:07:09,000 | 00:07:12,000 | 那再繼續問請教莊部長 |
| 00:07:12,000 | 00:07:14,000 | 這個因為美中貿易戰爭 |
| 00:07:14,000 | 00:07:16,000 | 而對等關稅是從這邊來的 |
| 00:07:16,000 | 00:07:20,000 | 其實我們台灣最大的課題是要避免息產地 |
| 00:07:20,000 | 00:07:22,000 | 你那個時候在這邊講說 |
| 00:07:22,000 | 00:07:25,000 | 你要事前嚴防、事中嚴查、事後嚴罰 |
| 00:07:25,000 | 00:07:27,000 | 那請問你有做到嗎 |
| 00:07:27,000 | 00:07:29,000 | 確實我們海關在落實這個執行 |
| 00:07:29,000 | 00:07:32,000 | 而且我們也組成了強查小組 |
| 00:07:32,000 | 00:07:34,000 | 就是由各官的官務長 |
| 00:07:34,000 | 00:07:36,000 | 要率隊做強查的一個查 |
| 00:07:36,000 | 00:07:37,000 | 對高風險的廠商 |
| 00:07:37,000 | 00:07:39,000 | 我們要提高查的頻率 |
| 00:07:39,000 | 00:07:42,000 | 那也建立了違規太陽的資料庫 |
| 00:07:42,000 | 00:07:44,000 | 然後我們要做精準的打擊 |
| 00:07:44,000 | 00:07:45,000 | 都有做到 |
| 00:07:45,000 | 00:07:46,000 | 我跟你報告 |
| 00:07:46,000 | 00:07:49,000 | 你們給我的資料查了3萬6千多筆 |
| 00:07:49,000 | 00:07:54,000 | 其中認為疑似違規轉移案件354筆 |
| 00:07:54,000 | 00:08:00,000 | 送給貿易署裁罰 |
| 00:08:00,000 | 00:08:02,000 | 目前完成200件裁罰 |
| 00:08:02,000 | 00:08:04,000 | 還有100多件還沒有裁罰 |
| 00:08:04,000 | 00:08:07,000 | 200件的裁罰你知道罰多少錢嗎 |
| 00:08:07,000 | 00:08:08,000 | 加總在一起 |
| 00:08:08,000 | 00:08:11,000 | 裁罰4,643萬 |
| 00:08:11,000 | 00:08:14,000 | 平均一件被你抓到違規息產地 |
| 00:08:14,000 | 00:08:15,000 | 罰23萬 |
| 00:08:15,000 | 00:08:16,000 | 誰會怕 |
| 00:08:16,000 | 00:08:18,000 | 我息產地我換標 |
| 00:08:18,000 | 00:08:21,000 | 我獲得的利潤永遠不只這一些 |
| 00:08:22,000 | 00:08:24,000 | 也有罰到60萬 |
| 00:08:24,000 | 00:08:25,000 | 我想跟委員報告 |
| 00:08:25,000 | 00:08:27,000 | 罰的最高60萬可見還有更低的 |
| 00:08:27,000 | 00:08:29,000 | 可能只有罰2萬塊錢3萬塊錢 |
| 00:08:29,000 | 00:08:32,000 | 如果是這樣的罰法 |
| 00:08:32,000 | 00:08:35,000 | 你這個叫做事後研罰 |
| 00:08:35,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 事後研罰就比我獲得的利益要小很多 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:42,000 | 那我當然會有一個誘因去違規 |
| 00:08:42,000 | 00:08:44,000 | 因為我改標 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:46,000 | 而且在自由貿易港區 |
| 00:08:46,000 | 00:08:50,000 | 我們本來就懷疑自由貿易港區是最容易 |
| 00:08:50,000 | 00:08:52,000 | 因為沒有進到關內來 |
| 00:08:52,000 | 00:08:53,000 | 沒有進到台灣來 |
| 00:08:53,000 | 00:08:55,000 | 所以在自由貿易港區裡面 |
| 00:08:55,000 | 00:08:56,000 | 改標是最方便的 |
| 00:08:56,000 | 00:08:58,000 | 結果你們到現在一年多了 |
| 00:08:58,000 | 00:09:01,000 | 自由貿易港區只有查獲兩件 |
| 00:09:01,000 | 00:09:03,000 | 所以你說你事中研查 |
| 00:09:03,000 | 00:09:05,000 | 我很懷疑 |
| 00:09:06,000 | 00:09:10,000 | 委員報告這個數據其實也有再增加 |
| 00:09:10,000 | 00:09:12,000 | 我們到7月19號 |
| 00:09:12,000 | 00:09:15,000 | 也已經查到4萬多筆的蘇美的貨物 |
| 00:09:15,000 | 00:09:17,000 | 就是查緝的案件 |
| 00:09:17,000 | 00:09:20,000 | 移送的大概也有近399筆 |
| 00:09:20,000 | 00:09:22,000 | 也採取了 |
| 00:09:22,000 | 00:09:23,000 | 不好意思 |
| 00:09:23,000 | 00:09:25,000 | 採取231筆 |
| 00:09:25,000 | 00:09:27,000 | 罰款大5500 |
| 00:09:27,000 | 00:09:28,000 | 8500 |
| 00:09:28,000 | 00:09:29,000 | 多了31筆 |
| 00:09:29,000 | 00:09:31,000 | 剛剛我跟你講200筆 |
| 00:09:31,000 | 00:09:32,000 | 現在變成說231筆 |
| 00:09:32,000 | 00:09:35,000 | 我們的研查以及他們的罰款 |
| 00:09:35,000 | 00:09:38,000 | 基本上應該也可以有二組作用 |
| 00:09:38,000 | 00:09:40,000 | 同時我們會對違規的廠商 |
| 00:09:40,000 | 00:09:41,000 | 建立資料庫 |
| 00:09:41,000 | 00:09:42,000 | 其實會加強 |
| 00:09:42,000 | 00:09:43,000 | 他查的更清楚 |
| 00:09:43,000 | 00:09:46,000 | 我建議你跟經濟部 |
| 00:09:46,000 | 00:09:48,000 | 橫向的聯繫 |
| 00:09:48,000 | 00:09:49,000 | 委員會的要求 |
| 00:09:49,000 | 00:09:51,000 | 嚴查這一種 |
| 00:09:51,000 | 00:09:52,000 | 偽冒 |
| 00:09:52,000 | 00:09:54,000 | 洗產地的做法 |
| 00:09:54,000 | 00:09:56,000 | 那既然你們政策的宣示 |
| 00:09:56,000 | 00:09:58,000 | 事中要嚴查 |
| 00:09:58,000 | 00:09:59,000 | 事後要嚴罰 |
| 00:09:59,000 | 00:10:01,000 | 那所謂的嚴罰是什麼標準 |
| 00:10:01,000 | 00:10:03,000 | 是不是跟他們溝通一下 |
| 00:10:03,000 | 00:10:06,000 | 這種嘴巴講得很嚴重 |
| 00:10:06,000 | 00:10:09,000 | 結果落實的時候落實的很輕微 |
| 00:10:09,000 | 00:10:11,000 | 這個就是我們台灣目前法令 |
| 00:10:11,000 | 00:10:12,000 | 直系上的問題 |
| 00:10:12,000 | 00:10:13,000 | 各個地方 |
| 00:10:13,000 | 00:10:15,000 | 各個層級的政府都一樣 |
| 00:10:15,000 | 00:10:17,000 | 明明關心說要去查場 |
| 00:10:17,000 | 00:10:18,000 | 查不查 |
| 00:10:18,000 | 00:10:20,000 | 查到了又怎麼樣 |
| 00:10:20,000 | 00:10:21,000 | 一樣 |
| 00:10:21,000 | 00:10:23,000 | 大家說法令定的 |
| 00:10:23,000 | 00:10:24,000 | 嚴格到執行面的時候 |
| 00:10:24,000 | 00:10:25,000 | 都變得很輕忽 |
| 00:10:25,000 | 00:10:26,000 | 加油好不好 |
| 00:10:26,000 | 00:10:27,000 | 為了台灣 |
| 00:10:27,000 | 00:10:29,000 | 我們大家要努力 |
| 00:10:29,000 | 00:10:31,000 | 我們台灣不會輕忽 |
| 00:10:31,000 | 00:10:32,000 | 謝謝 |
| 00:10:32,000 | 00:10:34,000 | 我們請教一下 |